assassination

[vapid sierra]

but then what about like shadowflame vs sophic encahnts and ring diff's and all that shit

[marble hemlock]

the answer remains the same

youre not gonna do 10% less damage due to slightly worse or better gems/enchants

[vapid sierra]

gotcha ty

[oblique jackal]

@balmy condor elaborate planning is what I meant to say

[balmy condor]

gotta have filler talents ya know

[whole mason]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[oblique jackal]

@balmy condor Ah i see.. I was hoping they'd get rid of that mindset with the new talent tree

[oak sky]

There need to be more filler points

With a bigger tree

[woeful meteor]

EP isnt even what I would consider a filler talent

It at least does something compared to most talents called improved "insert spellname"

[languid garnet]

hello, long time reader and lurker... one question

how does the stam buff affected assassination overall? I feel like I am unable to kill people on bgs and WM this week

full 424 tho.

[woeful meteor]

#pvp

[grim jay]

#pvp

[languid garnet]

mb...

[round pecan]

!whyspyr

[thorn adder]

@balmy condor whats your crafting order now if nothing else changes? Wep, boots, into patch?

[balmy condor]

Boots or dagger, then patch

[spice surge]

If you have an old spark or have a crafted season 1 item you could recraft it with a toxic patch on it too (before you get the S2 spark to upgrade it)

[storm belfry]

Man what have I missed. Are shoulders no go anymore?

[brazen zodiac]

:o..

[storm belfry]

💃

[brazen zodiac]

💃

[gusty mirage]

sweet child

[storm belfry]

Think I will stick w dagger being first craft. To be safe

[storm belfry]

Look man, I am not used to pins updating this often

[brazen zodiac]

pain without love

i want my 25 bricks back.

lesson fucking learned

[trail mica]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[minor gate]

do we have any use for the new armour kits

the ones that give primary stat and a bit of vers

[balmy condor]

No

[pure skiff]

So sim says boots should I craft them now? Whispyr my great leader

[balmy condor]

Maybe

[pure skiff]

Are the gems in the sim haste mastery or haste crit?

[grim jay]

Why dont you just check it for yourself

Gems are something you should sim for your character aswell and not just copy

[pure skiff]

Well I clicked on them and nothing popped up how about you be a sweet boy and just tell me ❤️

I asked politely so don’t answer being sour 😞

[brazen zodiac]

but

[gaunt moat]

the gems used in whispyr's sims were haste/crit

[spice spire]

They change quite often there’s no like

Guarantee that’s what you’ll have

It’s wild

[balmy condor]

irrelevant

the gems are specific to that gear set

and changing them is within 0.1%

what you had for breakfast is probably a bigger dps differencce

[pure skiff]

Thank you guys for a logical answer and for not being sour much love I appreciate it ❤️

[brazen zodiac]

honey bunches of oats with almonds c:

[cursive frost]

Gotta fuel the body and mind

[dusky granite]

Man I really wanted the Spore Shoulders to beat the boots

[grim tangle]

why

[indigo totem]

Breakfast beer: buff, or debuff? 🤔

[dark token]

Debuff for sure

Start ur whole day feeling bloated in stomach

[rich raft]

I have 2 424 diurna daggers, should i craft the boots first?

[dark token]

Read pins

Pro tip don't craft shit until first vault

[weak horizon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[glass junco]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

thanks for the invite

[brazen zodiac]

i recommend that cereal to everyone!!!!

very good for the digestive system c:

[crystal crystal]

too much sugar 🙂

[brazen zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-kitty-gif-23521077

@gusty mirage

[near valley]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-cute-meow-sunakook-small-gif-23565003

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/cute-cat-gif-25910152

[main vessel]

Speaking of cats

[whole mason]

@balmy condor why beacon has a 50k less damage compared to outlaw without crit? from sim OL has a average 832k per hit while sin has only 782k per hit

[balmy condor]

Versatility bro

It’s a stat

[whole mason]

oh, great. still affected by vers but not class related talents, ok

[balmy condor]

????

That’s how trinkets have worked for like 18 years brother

[whole mason]

what blizz's said got me into a wrong mind

[ionic matrix]

Its also affected by ghostly as well so it hits much harder and crits more as outlaw.

[balmy condor]

Feel better

[whole mason]

affected by ghostly?

[ionic matrix]

Ghostly strike

[whole mason]

isn't that kind of thing blizzard tried to cancel like talents in sub?

[ionic matrix]

It worked as of yesterday afternoon.

Havent tested today

I was thinking the blizz thing was more about spells of magic being buffed by talents like sub with shadow damage or nature with assassination and that making some trinkets and items weird if they did that school. Not sure exactly what was impacted or what the target was

[burnt star]

i mean ghostly says "increase damage from you ability", should fall into the same philosophy

[fallen charm]

I wonder if that will affect the toxic embellishments

[burnt star]

doesnt say increase damage taken by you

[whole mason]

blizzard's intention is to make stat triket a thing for rogues, especially sub; if ghostly can simply increase trinket 10% damage, there is still no comparable stat trinket for it.

[burnt star]

the change to neltharion's make it really bad

[near valley]

if anyone is going to have degenerate gameplay with outside damage sources

it's going to be outlaw

[maiden ginkgo]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vapid sierra]

why do we use tea in opener

if we overcap energy whiule using it

[balmy condor]

because every second you're not using tea is a waste

getting it on cooldown and at least getting the mastery out of it

is better than sitting on it waiting for the perfect moment to use it

[winter gale]

Playstyle/rotationwise we didnt change from S1 ?

[limber lion]

Nope

[proper tapir]

nope, maybe they will find something with the new 4set but nothing new in the near term

[winter gale]

Good

Ill just play assa and wont give a single f*** about anyting anymore. I love how it plays from expansion to expansion, it grew up with me and I do not have time and will to master another class/spec to this point haha :D.

[limber lion]

That's completely fine

You do you

[round swift]

So. Need to give my RL final answer for what I’m gonna bring to raid by tomorrow. My sin rogue or the devoker I’ve been gearing the last month. How we looking going into 10.1?

[vestal wren]

play the one of the two you like more

[round swift]

I prefer rogue overall but don’t like trying to get KSH on it.

[strange python]

I'll be honest. I have less faith in blizzard than maybe anyone else in this discord. Tuning feels inevitable for sin.

Sin is really genuinely quite far behind.

It may not be this week or next week, but it feels inevitable within the first few weeks.

[round swift]

Even in ST?

[strange python]

Yep

But again, I would be shocked if there aren't buffs

[round swift]

I do love the heroic mog

[strange python]

And I reallllyyyyy hate when people say shit like "if ur not world first it doesn't matter", because that's bullshit logic. But, given that I expect tuning to be extremely likely, week 1 balance likely doesn't matter unless you're literally echo or liquid

[round swift]

This set appearance is the best one in a long time.

My only issue with Sin is that it feels impossible to go for +2500io on it. I may not be the greatest player in the world, but I do notice that the overwhelming majority of rogues got their high rating as sub.

I don’t play sub. And I don’t have the time to push CE on one toon and KSH on another.

[strange python]

Well yeah, sin is bad in m+ and I doubt that's going to change at all this tier

And it likely won't even change until next expansion

[round swift]

Calamity.

[strange python]

You can absolutely get high ratings as sin, but it'll be easier as sub

Partly because it's better, partly because groups will turn you away for being sin

[round swift]

Did I read the pin right? We are keeping the Onyx ring the whole time?

[limber lion]

That's what it says, right

[rocky ruin]

It's not impossible

a lot of us have a Score between 2.7-3.1 in S1

Its just more effort unlike the other specs

[proud cosmos]

I've only played it a bit in keys but sin is 100% underated in keys because it has 2 specs on the class that are better

And people always judge people for it even if it is still better than other classes

[rocky ruin]

uff yea you can't change ppl mind or Point of View in that matter

[balmy condor]

I believe that's what it says

[burnt latch]

What does it say?

[winged veldt]

Something says something?

[dark token]

2500 Io is not high rating

I got it on my warrior pushing only my own key in 2 weeks, late in the season

Not knowing wtf I was doing on that class

[winged veldt]

This is easily achievable tbh. Not optimal but easily doable no doubt.

[sand lichen]

Rank 8 io rogue is assa otp btw

3530 score

[pseudo hamlet]

2517.6 is still Top 10% US 😛

[dark token]

That's because 90% of people are scared to even do keys or push beyond what they are comfortable with

2500 is not even all 20s, it's a joke

It's like all 18s

[junior aurora]

2700 is all 20s

so just imagine what 2500 is

and thats not even all 20s on tyr/fort lol

can def play sin way higher than all 20s

[royal lantern]

yeha

assa is kinda underwhelming rn compared to the OP stuff in m+

but saying "higher than 2,5k is not possible" is a bit of a brainlet take

[spice surge]

Its numerically fine, but like why bother playing something that takes so much more effort and feels scuffed just to do a couple percent less than the other specs that are way more ooga booga

[junior aurora]

yeah like sin in aoe is scuffed if you want to do st too

just play sub and do both fine

[lavish hazel]

!whyspr

!Whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[drifting cosmos]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[slow tulip]

!sheet

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[frigid pilot]

rogues

[royal lantern]

you need to scroll down to find us

[deft flicker]

Oops, all vanished

[sullen fjord]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

y-y-you---you see, you cant find rogue uptades because "grasp for air" the-they are HIDDEN

xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

(kill me pls)

[storm onyx]

2500 is very attainable even without a dedicated team and doing social runs with friends.
Assassination being relatively worse doesn’t mean it is bad. It is a different style of play and if you are enjoying it, you just do it. I have been running solely as Assa since m+ was introduced.

[subtle tundra]

getting 2500 is not a spec related thing

[storm onyx]

Indeed

[viscid spear]

[vestal wren]

~130k

[deft flicker]

[royal lantern]

wasnt it roughly like

assa 128k, sub 131k and outlaw 132k

[molten galleon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[frigid kestrel]

2500 is easily pugable with Sin rogue.

[vestal wren]

i think the assassination 2p change is not live (need to check hotfix stuff)

[royal lantern]

2p change.......?

[spice surge]

He means 4p

[vestal wren]

oh sry 4p

[royal lantern]

oh ok

thought i missed something

so yeha, assa going down by 0,5% or something

[thorn adder]

what change iv been under rock with gf this weekend

[vestal wren]

because, when i sim assassination, with the latest simc version
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6ZMNUSphovjrajZTAYF21b

it is on 130k

[spice surge]

They went up the same amount from embellishment scaling with vers again

So its whatever

[vestal wren]

but sub with nightly is on 136k or so

because of the missing changes to damage amps and stuff

[earnest citrus]

Honestly, even 3k is achievable with any spec for semi decent player. It depends on how much you play, but just spamming dungeons and getting a lucky PUG to get carried goes a long way. Nobody checks your RIO history and stuff <3k rating. Everybody knows that guy who is 3.2k and you wonder how tf he got there.

[vestal wren]

(also only if i put in the aura buff manually)

[spice surge]

Ye since that 136k is only counting the buffs we got and not the nerfs

[earnest citrus]

Just more difficult to get invites on non meta specs.

[vestal wren]

not sure how much sin loses from it

[royal lantern]

didnt thought about that cus assa normaly doesnt really cares about vers tbh

[agile fossil]

if assa goes to last dps maybe devs will remember rogue exist and buff the spec and then sub and outlaw

[royal lantern]

but yeha sure, its still 5-8% more emb dmg i gues

[vestal wren]

potentially a bit more given that the ring has nature damage

[royal lantern]

just from the bit vers you get naturally

[thorn adder]

soo what did they change?

[vestal wren]

also maybe they keep the nature damage amp

[spice surge]

Doubtful since blizz explicitly mentioned them not getting it in their notes

[royal lantern]

i mean, it allready was last dps in vault lol

[spice surge]

Or well, they also said 2p and not 4p fwiw

[agile fossil]

yeaaah thats true , and you guys still got the middle finger balance wise

[noble ridge]

This might be cope but I think we might do a little better this raid, it seems alot more ST heavy than Vault. Maybe im high tho

[royal lantern]

mate

its litearlly 1 of the lowest dps rn aswell

and sub AND outlaw both do more ST with the current numbers

[noble ridge]

🤷

[royal lantern]

"ST focused spec with no aoe as a compensation" btw (and thats still a absolutely horrible balance choice when no other spec in the game has something like that lol)

[spice surge]

Its unlucky, perhaps you should be playing boomkin instead since they have the best theorycrafting

Main selling point of the spec

[sleek pecan]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vestal wren]

fair

[noble ridge]

I'm just glad there is at least some changes being made Imo it shows that they know somthins off

Is that mega cope?

Probably

[vestal wren]

even with the amp

130k isn't exactly extremely high

and if they fix it, it is supposed to go down in value

[royal lantern]

you mean shadowpriest?

god, the jokes write themself

[ocean wolf]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[spice surge]

Nah im just reading what tettles wrote in his guide

That he does some of the best theorycrafting

[royal lantern]

the article said shadowpriest for the first hour or so a couple times

[spice surge]

[frigid pilot]

so either they buff rogue specs or we start gaslighting guilds into believing atrophic is required?

[burnt star]

U might not bring 2 rogue. But atrophic does has value early on

[earnest citrus]

big value

[burnt star]

And ya its sad when a spec that can only do s.t doesnt even win a s.t fight. And is almost dead last

[oblique jackal]

136k for sub is still solid

[grim jay]

it isnt 136

[burnt star]

Its the same as before

131k ish

Losing amp was rouggly napkin.math estimated to 6k

[spice surge]

Its 136k if you dont account for the nerfs and only take the compensations buffs into account

[burnt star]

136k would have been a fine number. And should be baseline for all rogue spec. Except assa. Assa should be higher then fury. ,zzz

Change my mind

[cobalt hemlock]

i mean if monks are doing better than us its preety doomy

[vestal wren]

yes but atm the only spec that looks like it breaks more than 130k is outlaw

[raw plover]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[winged quail]

Makes no sense that Sin is the lowest ST spec

[limber lion]

It is what it is

[winged quail]

I swear they specifically said assassination tuning was coming in a blue post, wonder if bigger work is being done?

[uncut echo]

It's just a matter of tuning, we'll likely see some adjustment after raid launches

They're working on an Exsanguinate redesign, per realz back in...

When they gutted the ability.

[ebon notch]

[strange python]

does embelish still get bonus from 4set or no

[gusty mirage]

No

[tight sparrow]

Anyone got a good UI for me? Looking for something simple, most important are debuffs on the enemy nameplates for me so i can see the bleeds timers

[gusty mirage]

Atrocity’s UI is a big fan favorite

But it is pay walled behind a twitch sub

[strange python]

i think its also not up todate to new patch since he went on vacation or something

[gusty mirage]

Yeah his new patch updates are lacking

Usually takes a few weeks to get it fully running for a new patch

[grim tangle]

it's also cringe to pay for your UI

[tight sparrow]

Yeah i think i keep looking 😄 but dont think its cringe for the creator to ask for a couple bucks, when he put effort in it

If anyone knows something else i would be really thankful

[weak horizon]

One day we'll be good again

I believe in their tuning

[winter gale]

I use Luxthos wa with default UI, some minor modifications and that’s it

[flat kiln]

If you use plater you can pretty easily remove all the debuffs you don't need to see like poisons and then just see bleeds

[cold patio]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[quaint nimbus]

this is what i use for dot tracking https://wago.io/n6oy9EBmv

[vapid sierra]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[ruby rover]

I'm using lariat and didn't bother to save enough focus to make a replacement neck, is there some smart-guy way to make swapping in my slimy boots/toxic bracer worth it? I could use a spark for a crafted neck but I'm hesitant in case that's a dumb idea.

[remote heath]

just get one in m+

[gusty mirage]

I would just wait until your first vault

see what your options are

you'll also have 2 sparks by then

so you won't feel as pressured/cornered into one decision or another

ya know?

[ruby rover]

Yeah, fair enough, that's what had me hesitating on the spark. Thanks.

[gusty mirage]

plus iirc they did embellishment tuning like 2 weeks into the tier last tier

so stuff could just flip on its head overnight

[tight sparrow]

Going to check this out too thank you

[quaint nimbus]

fair warning, it’s a tank player’s plater.
you’ll need to swap aggro colors. ‘have aggro’ will be set to green and ‘no aggro’ will be set to red by default

it’s also nice because all mob plates are color coded pre pull. blue means there’s an important thing to interrupt. pink means there’s an important thing to hard cc

[oblique jackal]

is it just like noawhs?

[tight sparrow]

First time using that, can you tell me where the aggro option is?

nevermind got it

I think with luxthors and the DorkiUI I should be set, thanks everyone

[storm belfry]

Why would you wanna swap those aggro colors?

[tight sparrow]

Cause as Dps green means no aggro , which is good

But if you the default means green = aggro

which is not what you want as dps

[limber lion]

Why would the plater default to the same colors for all classes/specs?

Most plater profiles should by default change colors depending on your role/spec

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

Like on my Plater profile here, the colors are completely different depending on whether you play a tank role or something else

I don't have to swap plater profiles just play a different role

Would highly recommend my profile over Dorki's if that's the case, even more so if you're planning to play Rogue.

[quaint nimbus]

what @tight sparrow said lol
it fucked me up hard the first time i used it

[storm belfry]

My default has always been red

So if it’s not red that means I have aggro

[quaint nimbus]

i mean it’s all down to preference

if that’s what you like, use it

[storm belfry]

True

But I’ve never had anything not default to red personally

Besides I think one thing was purple

[quaint nimbus]

for me i’ve always associated red with bad in games so it just made sense, and swapping it hurts my small, square brain

[storm belfry]

Red to me is a hostile mob idk lol

[tight sparrow]

Yours had Pandemic highlights too which is very nice

[storm belfry]

Yellow passive

[limber lion]

Yeah that's what the default plater does

[storm belfry]

I have tried plater 5 some odd times. Never can like it

[limber lion]

But if someone takes aggro from the mobs, quite a few of them change to purple or whatever to indicate that it's not aggro'd on you

Or the border changes color

[storm belfry]

It is the most useful for info imo

[limber lion]

Yeh, it's tailored for Assassination with support for every other spec in the game.

Can very easily blacklist unnecessary things and add static order to other specs.

[tight sparrow]

Do you maybe now how to get garrot and rupture to be on the side of the nameplat AND keep the Pandemic highlight? Right now if i make a special Debuff it loses the Pandamic highlighting :S

[limber lion]

Unfortunately not. The scripts I used for pandemic are only for the debuffs at the top.

You can probably update the script to work with special debuffs as well but I unfortunately cannot do that because I don't have game time.

Most people tend to stay away from special debuffs altogether.

[tight sparrow]

Yeah I will try to figure it out. Thank you for your help

[heady drum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[uneven summit]

Are people crafting before wednesday, or waiting :-)?

[spice spire]

Hold

[uneven summit]

thats what i thought, thanks ❤️

[burnt latch]

never hold

full send and look back on your great decisions later

[spice spire]

Y r u this way mister Warcieft

[burnt latch]

u mean amazing and cool?

[rain garden]

!fuu

[heady drum]

i very often run into this situation where rupture is about to fall off but ER is a bit too far away. is it ok to refresh rupture with like 2CPs in this case?

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[brazen zodiac]

O.O

[gusty mirage]

you'd only worry about ER -> rupture if you're doing the exsang loop

so you just refresh as normal

[heady drum]

ah okay, otherwise its all into envenoms anyway?

[gusty mirage]

[heady drum]

alright, will this change with the new tier?

[balmy condor]

Doesn’t really matter what you use it on

You’re only looking to use the cp

Regardless of finisher

[heady drum]

okok, with the increased power of rupture with the new 2p would that change?

or will it remain the same?

[balmy condor]

It’s the same

[heady drum]

alright, thanks !

[balmy condor]

7 combo point ruptures don’t do more damage per tick

They just last longer

[heady drum]

they just last longer, I see

so convenience I guess

would it actually be better then to prioritize envenoms?

[balmy condor]

No

[tacit mica]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

It makes no difference

[heady drum]

right, it simply does not matter

alright cool. could have been a cool thing to consider but I guess it doesnt matter

if I'd want to skip exsang whats the best route? im checking out the r1 rasz mythic parse rn and he put it into improved poisons, which looks somewhat silly

he doesnt even run puzzlebox, maybe not as important if youre not running exsang I guess

[toxic night]

assa rogue buffs suggestion for m+ : Indiscriminate carnage Cooldown reduced to 30 sec / another vanish charge / Remove crimson tempest and replace it with an envenom cleave what yo you guys think ?

[heady drum]

IC CD or 2 charges :^)

[bitter compass]

!whispyr

[balmy condor]

Yep that’s the move usually

[languid cipher]

whats our bis trinkets looking to be?

[balmy condor]

Hate the carnage change because it just removes any incentive to multi-dot and shackles you to IC for all your aoe forever.

The envenom cleave could be an interesting thing if done properly, but that concept already sort of exists in the form of poison bomb

[balmy condor]

Bomb, beacon, fragment

[minor gate]

i never understood this

does it just do less dmg per tick for more energy?

[heady drum]

its linear

[minor gate]

idk what that means

[heady drum]

the damage it deals over 10 seconds will always be the same, regardless of if youve spent 2cps or 7

thats how I understood what he just said to me anyway

[balmy condor]

Same tick damage, longer duration

[languid cipher]

so any of those 3 would work for raid?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[minor gate]

and thats the same 1 through 7CP

[balmy condor]

Yes

[minor gate]

aight

[balmy condor]

If it weren’t, you’d have really fucked situations

Where casting a rupture in pandemic would be a loss

Or a gain

And you’d have to think about snapshotting your rupture damage based on cp spent

Would basically just break pandemic instantly

[minor gate]

no im talking total dmg

[balmy condor]

Well if you do the same tick damage over a longer duration, that’s more total damage

[minor gate]

yes

[balmy condor]

Okay

What’s the confusion?

[minor gate]

^

that

[balmy condor]

Yes, per tick

[silk bane]

okay I cook for a sec. give assa 1 more bleed. slow down the gameplay even more so its no longer gcd capped. make garrote stackable up to idk 2-3 stacks (so like garrote damage stacks) then you get a finisher, the works based off of the stacks of your bleeds + CP's so u stack garrote and the new bleed (not rupture) then these do heavy heavy damage and the finishers damage is based off of these too. should be easier to balance in multi target cleave too since u cant stack up your bleeds on multiple targets, so theyre gonna have less stacks -> less damage.

[balmy condor]

Total rupture damage is never really a consideration

Because you have it up 100% of the time anyway

[minor gate]

idk how we keep doing this

[balmy condor]

The only thing that’s relevant is tick damage

[minor gate]

except for exang

[late surge]

thats why u use ER rupture before exsang

[minor gate]

yes

[silk bane]

so how bad was this meth I cooked Mr.TC?

[late surge]

so whats the confusion

[balmy condor]

Well for exsang you’re getting additional ticks you wouldn’t normally get, so that would matter, yes

[minor gate]

sorry that was meant to be a question

nvm

im on my fifth coffee

writing a document

[balmy condor]

Bit confusing but I guess it’s fine

[minor gate]

its like filling a talent tree

and still geting points

[balmy condor]

Aight I gtg, date with the girl

[minor gate]

ayyyy

[bitter compass]

Have the 2pc/4pc tier DPS Gain sims been ran yet? Didn't see them in the spreadsheet.

[minor gate]

ik your just leaving because i give brainrot

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[minor gate]

there isnt really a sim without them in the spreadsheet but i think whispyr said its like an 8% gain or smth

[bitter compass]

Ok, so around 3-5% for 2pc and 7-9% for 4pc? Roughly

[late surge]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[late surge]

I think fuus sheet has tier gains

[minor gate]

https://tenor.com/view/qrow-rwby-qrow-so-it-would-seem-so-it-would-seem-qrow-so-it-would-seem-rwby-gif-22742018

[late surge]

but its WIP so dunno how accurate

[bitter compass]

I found it, ty sir

[slow epoch]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[slow epoch]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[covert basin]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[storm belfry]

Amazing

[winter gale]

Is assa m+ fun?

Ignoring the numbers*

I haven’t tried it since BFA

[kind walrus]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[steel ridge]

whats stopping you?

[proper tapir]

I mean, that depends on you and what level of M+ you're doing. In low keys it's not fun for me since everything dies so quickly. I had more fun from like +16 to +22

[winter gale]

Im 2800-3000 rio

[winter gale]

I just didn’t enter any dungeon as assa, that’s all

[steel ridge]

how are you 2800-3000, what does that even mean.

[winter gale]

Once I reach all 20s in time I just start doing em for weekly

[tacit mica]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[proper tapir]

Nice! Yeah, try it, give sin a go! ❤️

[winter gale]

That means that I am ending seasons in that raider i.o. Score

[steel ridge]

but every season is different

[winter gale]

But I guess you knew what that means, you wanted to talk to me a bit more ❤️

[steel ridge]

or are you saying you are a 2800 rio player identifying as a 3000 rio gamer

i am confused

[winter gale]

English is not my native language, I apologize

Thank you both for answering, I will surely try assa this season. I saw someone saying that it’s pretty easy to reach all 20’s in time with pretty much any class/spec so I would rather spend less time gearing double specs 😂

[proper tapir]

Bro, you aren't being very nice right now. They are somewhere between 2800 and 3000.

[pure moth]

You can do sin at any level mythic+. Its a matter of what's easier for you. Some people just prefer the other specs for the aoe. Ive done a couple 23s with no problem. Im sure theres many others that went higher as sin

[winter gale]

I will try it once season starts for sure, it could be beneficial for tyrannical weeks if they buff our ST 😂

[pure moth]

Even if they don't, it's still fine. If you don't like it, you just go back to what you prefer

[winter gale]

Indeed

[sweet zealot]

is sin rogue gonna be the best of the 3 in the raid. I keep hearing that a lot of bosses are designed to be away from the boss which is shit for melee?

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

I'm gonna be honest, it's not super fun to me currently.

Some people really like it and IC is a nice touch, but I just don't find much enjoyment in it personally

[eager solstice]

i love the aoe silence

[limber lion]

And that's coming from someone who's played this spec religiously since Legion. This is legitimately the first season since 7.3 where I did most of my dungeons as something else than Assassination

[woeful meteor]

Feel like the people that enjoyed Sin M+ before dislike it now

[limber lion]

Even in 8.0 and 9.0, I was doing m+ as Assa

Something about it man, it's just not fun

It doesn't matter what buttons you press

Nothing matters

[winter gale]

I did it only during BFA

[storm belfry]

I enjoy it. Hit 3k only playing assa. Just try it out. Fun is subjective

[limber lion]

You don't do any good damage, there's not much controlling to be had outside of stealth IC / Vanish

It's just mindless passive damage

Doesn't matter whether you press Envenom or CT

Go ahead and spam FOK/CT, doesn't matter

[winter gale]

Ill come back here when I try it

[limber lion]

Yeah who knows, maybe you'll love it

Especially if it's been 4 years since you last played it

[thorny aurora]

I tried assa in m+ and enjoyed it a lot

Except when I couldn't re stealth between fights

Then it feels really bad

Like when you have the spiteful affix or a pug tank that is chaining

[rigid shore]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

What if I told you that it kinda really doesn't matter at all

[remote heath]

think it depends a lot on your comp aswell

[proper tapir]

No one knows, ask us again in about 5 weeks.

[thorny aurora]

Well you lose the garrote from stealth + iron wire silence don't you

[limber lion]

Actually let me do a re-sim of the no-stealth tech

[limber lion]

Sure, the garrote is super duper whatever

Silence is the bigger thing sure, but that also kinda doesn't really matter on most packs

[thorny aurora]

I'd actually be interested to see some data

[ebon notch]

its been simmed before

and it is a very minor loss

you lose more by standing around trying to force a restealth than jumping into the next pack and getting your dots up

[limber lion]

Oh no!

[ebon notch]

even less than i thought

insane

[quaint nimbus]

we will never financially recover from this

[thorny aurora]

Damn

That's a 5min dungeon slice?

[limber lion]

Dslice is not set to 5 minutes

But yes it is DSlice

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor how big is the difference bettwen exsang and 2nd point improved poison next tier? same as it is right now, aka ~1,5%?

[limber lion]

Geez, I wonder if he had simmed it and if it was in his spreadsheet already

[rigid shore]

How good is Hero rotation for Assasination? Im new to the class and have no idea of what im doing 😄

[royal lantern]

you think i can read that stuff?

[ebon notch]

he's trynna flirt bro dont cockblock

[limber lion]

I would hope so after so many years

[royal lantern]

(thanks btw cev)

[limber lion]

I gotchu homie

[royal lantern]

but yeha, no exsang tier for me then

[static glacier]

Tbh outside of a few fights last tier was fine no exsang too

[limber lion]

Actually, I'm trolling. The No-Exsang is comparing against the bis profile which is the horrendous no-cttc profile.

Let me sim the double IP one rq

[static glacier]

Rasz for example was a shit fight for exsang

[royal lantern]

allright, serious question, why is the no-cttc profile even considered

nobody is gonna play that shit

[brazen zodiac]

c:<

[limber lion]

It's honestly not, we will always recommend the build with CTTC to everyone. Even on Whispyr's sheet it's higher up even though it's technically 0.26% worse

Anyways, the bottom one is 2 IP, Active 3 is Lightweight Shiv and Venom Rush instead of 2 IP

[royal lantern]

people that play without CTTC should be immediately send into contaiment

cant tell me those are actually humans

lizard people

[storm belfry]

🦎

[royal lantern]

so, venom rush and 1more shiv cast "wins" by a bit

huh

[limber lion]

Also Whispyr has a perfect thingy right next to the no-cttc build

because fuck that shit lol

[balmy condor]

Because if I don’t include the absolute highest simming profile (even if it’s the most horrid cursed shit imaginable), I’ll get flooded with “why does X sim higher, why don’t you have Y, I saw this on Z, hey I ran a top gear, why this better?”

It’s actually a lose lose

[royal lantern]

fair point

[wind condor]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

I already get sims sent to me with people re-gemming the same profile and going “it’s 10 dps better pls fix”

These days I just hit run sim again and their gems are 10 dps worse

[fast stag]

Hi everyone, I started a little bit on the game (1 month) and I love playing the murderous thief class. I have a little question for you professionals and connoisseur. Question about items is there or will there be a list to favor? If yes or can I find it? Thank you!

[balmy condor]

And then I go “it’s 10 dps worse pls fix”

[limber lion]

Gem Sims

[balmy condor]

Nah, bis lists are useless junk

[fast stag]

I am currently ilvl 406 I do mythical +

[royal lantern]

the only "bis" that exist is "what embelishments and trinkets do i want?"

the rest is just simming your avaible gear

[limber lion]

Just get the highest ilvl possible and you're chilling lad

[balmy condor]

Then you should be looking for the highest ilvl

[vital haven]

i just go with the gems that the profile have

[balmy condor]

When you’re 448 equipped let me know

[vital haven]

can you imagine simming gems

aint nobody got time for that

[balmy condor]

I assure you It sucks

And all the combinations end up within margin

[limber lion]

Lariat was the mvp all along

[balmy condor]

[peak bobcat]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348476419652976651/1104865018908004442/SPOILER_Vc4TJrJ.png

[limber lion]

Oh boy

[peak bobcat]

dratnos with some major

[steel spire]

[gusty mirage]

nah bro you don't get it

[balmy condor]

I Iooooove tier lists

[gusty mirage]

its a ST tier

so obv assassination will be good

[peak bobcat]

ST tier sin op

[vital haven]

assa is the ST spec

obv

[peak bobcat]

get on the bandwagon now guys

[balmy condor]

Of course

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/peanutbutter-and-crack-sandwich-gif-15085404

[peak bobcat]

before its too late

[fast stag]

Probably never lol

[gusty mirage]

you want one @peak bobcat?

I have extra pb and crack

[peak bobcat]

Please

[limber lion]

fuck that reminds me I need to make dinner

[peak bobcat]

ill smoke some crack to make assas good

[limber lion]

I forgot and it's 11:42 pm

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

fak

[steel spire]

Meal prep for raid week

[vital haven]

miss chappelle show man

[fast stag]

So I’m not necessarily looking at stats but just the lvl of the object?

[earnest remnant]

sub in C, ill take it gimme that community perception of it sucking so i can get some well deserved buffs

[royal lantern]

sub and suck? its rogue, and according to the community its OP and always meta because of that alone

[balmy condor]

As long as it’s not a billion vers it’s probably an upgrade

[royal lantern]

[peak bobcat]

@gusty mirage shaking in my boots, this will be the first tier I've ever played outlaw for more than a boss

[gusty mirage]

keep up hope brother

[gusty mirage]

my dude

you're gonna play outlaw and like it

[earnest remnant]

[oak sky]

Dratty o out here confused

[pallid bough]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[steel spire]

Line go up🙏🏾

[grand trail]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim tangle]

"it got very large buffs, 20% to shiv..."

tettles is my favorite comedian

[oak sky]

I dont think anyone that plays any spec understands any other spec tbh

[brazen zodiac]

never c:<

[remote heath]

they need to be protected against themselves

thumbnailman

[cobalt hemlock]

common dratnos L i guess

[strange python]

literally watching this moment

dratnos likes the damage profile of last few bosses, that's why assa will be A-tier

[storm belfry]

No thanks

[haughty flicker]

Damn imagine being doomer for so long only to be proven wrong by a dratnos tier list

Bet you guys feel silly now

[storm belfry]

I will play sin cause it’s the best also I can get the most value out of all 3 specs with my poisons and bleeds doing damage even if I am not in melee range

(It is sarcasm do not light me up)

[strange python]

Everyone understands warrior.

[oak sky]

sins braindead everyone understands sin

is what a warrior would say

like actually stop being stupid lol

[strange python]

I've played warrior.

[steel spire]

Press ignore pain for dps gain

[oak sky]

didnt realize you were everyone

[strange python]

I'm just saying, people's perceptions on warrior are pretty accurate. Arms and fury are pretty fucking simple

[oak sky]

stuff like where damage comes from you usually need to read talents

[tulip dawn]

When taking exsang, do you hold it to line up with deathmark, or only do that if you don't lose a cast?

[oak sky]

nobody reads other class talents

[winged star]

every spec is simple

[strange python]

O thats what you meant

[strange python]

People say this then parse green. You can genuinely parse 85+ on warrior with no brain

[winged star]

that doesn't mean it isn't simple, knowledge isn't the same as execution

[strange python]

That's arbitrary and most people mean "I could play that shit well" when they say simple

[winged star]

and for the vast majority of the player base (casual audience) nobody cares about parses either, just hit buttons do dmg get loot repeat

[static glacier]

I mean a competent player could pick up any class with a week of practice

Building muscle memory and getting used to how a fight plays as a spec are all a big part of the learning curve

[winged star]

there isnt a difficult spec in the game, providing the player has the basic understanding of WoW's base mechanics. You just need some practice and away you go.

[static glacier]

I think you could argue in a vacuum no, but in the context of some raidfights there’s specs that certainly challenge you more / are less forgiving, raszageth spriest comes to mind

[limber lion]

just hold everytime

[craggy oak]

I do think most classes are "simple" now a days, but not because they are made to be simple.

Older/ experienced playerbase who have been around a while.

Sheer amount of resources to learn a class within a day.

A lot of the hard intercations like snapshotting, for the most part has been removed or is in a super water downed state.

[static glacier]

Class complexity has been decreasing while encounter complexity increases

[craggy oak]

^^

[winged star]

which is a good thing

[gusty mirage]

which I think is a fair transition for the game to undergo

[craggy oak]

Frost dk is a good example, breath not hard on a training dummy, breath is hard in an encounter

[static glacier]

Hard for them to keep say mop or cata warlock complexity with current encounters

Cata warlock especially was degenerate

[unreal bear]

so i disappeared to play CS for a couple months, looks like rogues finally got some tuning? any tl;dr for it?

i saw the "rogue still sorta blows" in the pins but

[silk bane]

U didn't watch the video but I did, and tettles I shit u not said and I quote ' sin rogue got some massive buffa recently, 20% shiv damage'

[royal lantern]

what tuning

lol

[unreal bear]

or did i get pranked

[static glacier]

Simwise we’re kinda low - as far as classes that convert sim dps to reality we’re among the better conversion rates so we’ll see how it goes

[royal lantern]

oh that one

yeha, changed nothing

[silk bane]

Oh fuck yeah the 20% shiv damage. Giga juicy dam

[royal lantern]

still down bad

20% shiv dmg is like 20dps lol

[silk bane]

Nah nah 67

[white orchid]

That’s for 10.1.5 right it’s not a buff for this coming Tuesday

[royal lantern]

reminder that we are in the 130k+ dps range

[silk bane]

Huge according to tettles

[unreal bear]

i kept hearing streamers (lol) say they wanted to see flat % increase on abilities, but i felt like it was a bad bandaid fix

[royal lantern]

it was % buffs on abilitys that do no dmg

kingsbane needs WAY more

shiv does 0dmg

[unreal bear]

im guessing it doesnt make kingsbane even remotely viable either

[royal lantern]

mutilate does no notable dmg

[royal lantern]

not even close

[unreal bear]

does "all ability" affect things like poison dmg?

or just actual combat abilities

[silk bane]

KB needa another 43% buff to start to compete

With dtb

[unreal bear]

yowza

[misty holly]

Does that mean if we take Tiny Toxic Blade it's actually 335 dps buff?

[silk bane]

It was like 55% behind according to whispyr

[unreal bear]

unfortunate

[silk bane]

U might be up to something. Start cooking fam

[unreal bear]

was thinking about playing again this patch but doesn't seem compelling enough for casual sin player like myself

[royal lantern]

i mean

rogue in general is not good

assa is the worst, but all 3specs rn are in a ~3k range of eachother

[unreal bear]

yeah, i would play sub if it was still performing leaps and bounds over but

im not in the mood to level a new toon just to be competitive with my schedule. sad times

[royal lantern]

but like, rogue is just not in a good spot with the current numbers on all3 specs

[tiny ember]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

Aura buffs include everything except auto attack and things that come from items

[drifting cosmos]

one day sin will rise

[frozen zenith]

that video is so cursed, Tettles called assa buffs "huge" as if the spec still isnt garbage

[peak bobcat]

Boomkin player speaking

[haughty flicker]

Can’t believe sin was A tier this whole time and this channel gaslit me into thinking otherwise

Good thing I saved my spark so can still craft a dagger

[slow tulip]

? 🤔

[haughty flicker]

No more lies

Tettles and dratnos revealed the deception

[slow tulip]

big

[strange python]

Should I bother with having poisoned knife on my hotbar like, at all?

[glad hamlet]

You know what to do when the boomkin start talking

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/965458290358235147/1005023166143418378/unknown.gif

[peak bobcat]

1 blocked message*

[royal lantern]

not really

[haughty flicker]

It’s good for pulling shit when you’re running old content

[royal lantern]

i can Count on 1hand how often i used poisned knife in the last 5years

[haughty flicker]

So worth

[strange python]

Can't I just use a serrated bone spike?

[haughty flicker]

I forgot sin uses that tbh

[strange python]

If I'm pulling it, I'd want my aoe on them anyways.

not aoe

dot

Fuckin' too much warlock lately

[haughty flicker]

Depends on how old the content is

Sbs won’t reset all the time if it one shots the enemy

Then you need knife

Unless that’s changed since shadowlands anyway

[strange python]

Eh, situational enough that I'd just rather keep my hotbar nice and clean.

[rapid forum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[sly bloom]

going into the next tier do we still have to play exsang

that cd feels like absolute dog shit

[silk bane]

Whispyr tell this guy about the exsanging your DM tech >:D

[royal lantern]

you allready didnt had to Play it

[violet jackal]

it's about 1k behind if you don't play exsanguinate

[royal lantern]

was ~1% better than playing 2nd point IP

[violet jackal]

I've also hit that button 0 times since it was in the tree

[royal lantern]

on raza you didnt play exsang at all

[sly bloom]

hmm

[silk bane]

im actually curious if exsanging your DM during shield was good.

like It must be a dps increase

since shield dies in like 7 seconds

and thats basically exsang'd DM

[violet jackal]

probably

[royal lantern]

trust me, 90% of people probably LOSE dps by taking exsang and not playing it 100% correct, because of how weird it works with killtimers

[silk bane]

maan now i wanna try it.... exsang p1 is ez, u just hold everything in intermission, then youre gonna have exsang dm box for 2 shield

[royal lantern]

problem is more with the timers

[silk bane]

s

[royal lantern]

and not if exsang dm is good/bad for shield

[silk bane]

shields are 1.20 aprat right?

[sharp zodiac]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[strange python]

...is assassination really bad right now or do I just not know how to play this? I can't even kill like, a single enemy with assassination now

I admit that no matter what I'm bad, actually, but this just feels really awful to play, and I just don't understand if I'm fundamentally forgetting something.

[rapid forum]

In what content?

[velvet ridge]

like an open world mob? i feel like a garrote out of stealth can 1 shot them or something

im exaggerating, but

[strange python]

No, not at all.

I'm in dragonflight

I've not tried it in dungeons yet seeing how I don't wanna force others to deal with me learning this

But I feel like I'm just struggling for energy at all, and the damage over time is NICE I guess

[rapid forum]

So, we talking raid, or like worldquests, or are you still leveling

or what are we doing here

[strange python]

World quests

I just hit 70 like 2 days ago

So I understnad my gear isn't the best, and that I'm not experienced.

[rapid forum]

If you are talking about the new zone Zaralek, some enemys there are legit strong

[strange python]

No, I'm doing above ground stuff. Brackenhide hollow to be specific.

I actually think I know one of my issues here.

Deathmark. I understand this is a good ability, but 2 minutes per enemy is... obnoxious. Like I guess I could do better in a raid/dungeon where there's a tank, but to quote lazy purple, every single class does their job better when the enemy has their back to them and distracted.

[silk bane]

so there are rares and normal mobs :these rare guys have a lot of hp, way more than normal mobs, and do significantly more damage, and usually have a more distinct look to them . you normally woulndt be able to solo them with low gear

if youre struggling with normal mobs, thats a completly different issue then

[brazen zodiac]

lol the dharajin area is crazy!

i tried pulling a pack of elites there thinking it'd be the same as like, brackenhide area or something and oh boy lol

[silk bane]

as for energy, 1, it could be that youre not running your energy talents, or 2)you dont have poisons on (your bleeds hitting poisoned targets give u energy back) or 3) youre trying to gcd cap yourself. Sin is normally a slower paced spec and its sometimes fine to not press anything in a gcd

[signal kayak]

Did you read anything about the spec...you're leaving alot of open room....the spec isnt that weak when leveling or even as fresh 70...whats your talents....what your ilvl...whats your rotation look like

[rapid forum]

I am not a big fan of assa for open world content btw. It doesnt really matter since you outgear everything very fast but I dont like the dot based playstyle for open world

Same with deathmark, cant really get value out of it if enemys die after 5 secounds

[strange python]

Okay, so.

1: Yes, I'm abusing this global cooldown. I've always... well, mashed the mutilate/sinister strike/gloomblade button when I'm not doing anything.
2: I do have poisons on, yeah. Numbing, Crippling, Deadly, and Amplifying.
3: Talents are probably really bad but I'll post them.

Item level is in fact, too low.

[frigid pilot]

Locks on Reddit crying that they are only op with pi but the sims don’t account for pi

Simming 141k rent free

[winged veldt]

Lmmfao!

[strange python]

I understand crimson tempest may not be the BEST, but I really wanted access to some form of aoe.

[frigid pilot]

💯 feels like you’re blowing 7 global marinating this mob for no reason

I should be a Blizz dev, make an ability like aff lock soul swap, copy all rogue dots from current target activate within 6 seconds to another

Bleeds and poisons

[strange python]

How is my talent build, though?

[rapid forum]

Tbh, i don't think it matters really for open world content

[placid wave]

i wanna know how to abuse my global cooldown tho

[rapid forum]

you are pretty much running the normal assa raid build

with some minor changes here and there

[signal kayak]

I don't quite understand the talent build you're running. Ilvl is low so yea things will die slow but it shouldnt be a struggle....

[strange python]

That leaves my rotation then, right?

[signal kayak]

I don't raid, so I typically run the DTB/IC for all content.

[strange python]

I didn't mean to have this BE the raid build, funnily enough.

I've literally never done a raid before,.

[signal kayak]

Along with thistle tea, echoing reprimand in the class tree

[rapid forum]

Kinda hard to tell you what the problem is tbh

[strange python]

Echoing reprimand is just... I only have it because I don't know what else to do with it.

Like it's very annoying for me

[signal kayak]

I run this straight from the faq

[rapid forum]

The difference between these talentbuilds should be super irrelevant for open world content imo

Kinda sounds like you are just not hitting your buttons, dunno

[silk bane]

talents are for the most part 'fine' outside of Sealedfate and Thistle tea on the class tree side. find weakness and soothing darkness are quite bad, and you are havily reliant on Sealed fate tilling your combo points faster so u dont have to mutilate an extra time since its such an expensive cast, and can use finishers more often. your energy is also kinda tuned around using Thistle tea so youre missing that too

[placid wave]

could select talents at random for random open world stuff

[rapid forum]

Or maybe i am out of touch here because with gear you just kinda oneshot everything anyways in open world

[silk bane]

as for spamming, with Assassination, u dont really want to spam mutilate.

[velvet ridge]

the most impratnt thing is to use garrote out of stealth, for open world

but out of stealth, i mean, use it to break your stealth, use it to engage the mob

[strange python]

My "Gear" is "shit I get from completing quests", not like... actual specific pieces of gear chosen. I pick based on stats I guess.

I think it's just my rotation.

I gotta go for a bit though. It's my birthday, gonna reply to family birthday wishes.

[silk bane]

happy birthday dude

we can help with your rotation maybe later

[rapid forum]

Itmlvl > all

you don't need to care about stats till endgame

[strange python]

I pick based on intelligence based gear because if I can outsmart the enemies they can join my side /s

big brain

[idle gorge]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gaunt moat]

I think my message from 2 months ago is relevant now
#assassination message

[upbeat niche]

I still can't decide on sin or sub

[proper tapir]

The rest of us either, we have both ready to go and will flip flop between the two on Tuesday. (assuming we don't get buffed)

[junior aurora]

stay outlaw?

[gloomy knoll]

Porque lo nos dos

[grim jay]

The specific people they might listen to arent necessarily rogue players. So that way isnt it for us 😁

[idle gorge]

Think there will be any changes before raid release?

[foggy coral]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[jagged yoke]

hmmmi feel like theres too many buttons for assassination now 😦

[strange python]

POV: An assassination rogue is doing their rotation on you.

https://youtu.be/yj8bgNaW2lk?t=41

[gray crest]

sam onella is an amazing youtube channel

that and blue jay

[proper tapir]

We don't know.

[timid haven]

Are there any other ways besides overflow groups to get keys so i can upgrade this stupid ring

[pure moth]

Killing rares had the key chance drop. You get overflow which you can buy the sack of oddity which can have a key.

[timid haven]

yeah i know i juust dont wanna have to farm this shit. How high can it be upgraded?

[pure moth]

424

[silk bane]

@gusty mirage did u manage to get in a top 100 wr guild btw?

[timid haven]

is it absolutely neccessary?

[balmy condor]

I mean

what's your definition of absolutely necessary

it's BiS, and it's bis by like 1%

[timid haven]

Like is it absolute bis? I know itr does good dam

[balmy condor]

there is no ring that will replace it this patch

[timid haven]

oh really?

got ya so ima just have to farm for this shit

[proper tapir]

just fly around farming rares, it took me like 4 hours to get a full set of max level gems (including the storm one)

[timid haven]

my storm is maxed its the others i need

[eager solstice]

@balmy condor you staying assa this tier or swapping depending on fight?

[spice surge]

Didnt you see? Tettles put assa in A tier for this raid because of its ability to do very high damage even when being forced out of melee, so its clearly the best spec /s

[balmy condor]

I am a huge supporter of ass

[drifting cloud]

whispyr sub arc electric bogaloo

[spice surge]

I like how everybodys takes on rogues assume rogues work like they did in bfa, not how they currently work

[storm belfry]

I got ppl telling me this too

[balmy condor]

if they make me play sub for the fucking assault aoe I will scream

[oak sky]

I love ass

[jagged yoke]

im pretty shit at rogue but why doersnt it work that way anymore? doesnt assassination have heaps of dots?

[balmy condor]

ass

[oak sky]

Actually i like tiddy better

[eager solstice]

Ass yum

[oak sky]

But ass

[spice surge]

Just like when people say sub has amazing funnel

[oak sky]

[balmy condor]

why doesn't what work which way

[grim jay]

For the funnel bcs sub aoe sucks

[jagged yoke]

assassination doing a lot of damage when forced out of mele

[oak sky]

Just play feral

[storm belfry]

I’d like to know the argument or answer to that too

[rapid forum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

cause we're drowning in energy and envenom is like 30% of our damage

[storm belfry]

Tbh

So it’s because rupture too weak?

[spice surge]

Only like 30% of assassination damage is dots, the vast majority is just envenom and applying poisons

[oak sky]

People are stuck in like 5 year old conceptions of what specs they dont play are

[balmy condor]

if you're out of melee you don't use energy, you don't melee the boss, you don't envenom, you don't generate CP, you don't apply poisons, you don't get amp poison stacks

like

what did you expect

[storm belfry]

I see

[oak tangle]

30% of your damage is still strong compared to 0 for others

[balmy condor]

rupture and garrote aren't doing 2/3rds of our damage

[jagged yoke]

so you thinking sub be as good as assassination?

[oak sky]

Is there genuinely a spec with 0 ranged damage

Im pretty sure there isnt

[balmy condor]

yeah but you're a little disingenuous about that

[oak sky]

Ranged/dot

[grim jay]

You can apply poison with your throwing skill

[drifting cloud]

you can grieftorch out of melee

checkmate atheists

[oak sky]

Maybe havoc dh

[grim jay]

The options are limitless

[oak tangle]

depends if you class crackling jade lightning as damage

[balmy condor]

garrote + rupture are 20% of my damage on terros. You can add 2.5% from deadly poison dot and 1.4% from serrated bone spike dot

that lands you at 24%

[oak sky]

Definitely not

[near valley]

Poison knife stonks

[balmy condor]

rupture on sub is 10%

so like

sure you can say "oh it's better because number higher"

but you're kinda just arguing in bad faith at that point

that difference isn't relevant in any situation in the last like 2 expansions

[silk bane]

i mean sub does quite litearlly 0 damage if its not in melee range. just rupture i guess. but loses more in not farming dance back

[balmy condor]

MAYBE carapace of n'zoth

[spice surge]

Also the assumption that we'll have like 80% uptime on bosses to begin with is kinda cooked

[balmy condor]

I mean maybe in normal if you're a first time melee

[misty sapphire]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

idk

[oak sky]

Rupture is the damage from range yes, i never said all classes are created equal

[balmy condor]

dathea for example is a pretty high movement fight

this is melee damage on my prog kill

that dip at 3:30 I got knocked up by the succ

[oak sky]

Dathea can be full uptime if you dont get lightning

[balmy condor]

I had 97% uptime

on a prog kill

80% is just lunatic shit

[oak tangle]

depending on the fight we can cloak a mechanic that forces us out of melee, which is nothing to snuff at

[balmy condor]

unless you're playing hopscotch randomly in the middle of the fight

you're never that low

[gloomy knoll]

I think melee players legit do that

[spice surge]

I mean people dont explicitly say 80% uptime, but there seems to be a sentiment among the community that melee uptime is just going to be completely awful for this raid

[balmy condor]

yeah I don't know

[spice surge]

Yet when i checked bosses people had lke 95-97% uptime

[balmy condor]

you had to run out and soak on kurog

[burnt star]

Weve heard that before tho

[balmy condor]

you ran out

[spice surge]

So every tier

[balmy condor]

soaked for legit 3 seconds

stepped back in

[spice surge]

Because people havent figured out how to optimize their movement yet

[balmy condor]

3 seconds on a 9 min prog kill

kek fucking w

[oak sky]

You could lose no uptime on kurog too

If the soak was closeish

[burnt star]

Thats napkin math 80%

Right

[oak sky]

I usually only lost like a second

[balmy condor]

well 9/3 is 1/3rd, and 1/3rd is 33%, so really it's like 66% uptime

actually unplayable

[burnt star]

Dead type of dps

Melees

[spice surge]

Idk why i even watch those stupid fucking tier list videos, i just get upset because they all know nothing about rogues yet confidently state these bullshit claims from 5 years ago

[silk bane]

Other than echo of neltharion and magmorax or w/e what other bosses actually sucked for melee?

[grim jay]

Seems like your rdds dont hate you as much as mine hate out melees

[silk bane]

i dont really get the doom on it

[burnt star]

https://tenor.com/view/perfect-popcorn-michael-jackson-gif-26271837

[spice surge]

Echo doesnt even suck

[balmy condor]

9/10 times it's people just stuck in the past tbh

[burnt star]

U watch for the drama

Isnt that a human thing to do

See how wrong someone can be

[balmy condor]

"restealths way too important in m+"
"melee uptime is terrible, we'll never do damage"
"assa has dots so it'll be the play because it can be off the boss"

it's all just dumb talking points from 12 years ago

[oak tangle]

did anyone see that dh who rated tem b tier in m+

[balmy condor]

and the community hasn't caught up

[silk bane]

echo can get really bad with the LOS and stuff but its not nealry bas bad for rogues yeah

[near valley]

"Sub can funnel"

[oak sky]

Depends on the pull obviously but its really not hard to stack close enough to the boss that we can hit with acro

[silk bane]

sub massive burst class

[spice surge]

Not particularly worse for melee compared to range

But yes having to do mechanics and not just target dummy makes you do less damage

[near valley]

[balmy condor]

sub pvp spec

outlaw m+ spec

[silk bane]

ngl i love watching these tier list videos. the mercalain or w/e channel has some of the best takes ive ever seen too!

like the most cooked shit u can think of as a human

[oak tangle]

sin rp spec?

[balmy condor]

sub has dance that means infinitely more add control because you can cheap shot (no one plays like that)

[gloomy knoll]

Not with macabre you can’t

[ornate zodiac]

Outlaw does too, but you almost never use cheapshot in dance.

[drifting cloud]

whispyr very important are you specced into gouge or cheaper vial

[gloomy knoll]

I used cheap quite a bit in SL

We also had free cheap shot talent tho

[balmy condor]

there's a billion and 1 ridiculous claims that just get spread around because some guy heard it from some dude who heard it last expac from a guildmate who had a rogue friend in his last guild who learned it from a youtube video from some guy who made his opinion from his experience playing in wrath

[proven jasper]

people crafting boots first?

[near valley]

Spending CP on kidney shot on cd like a true chad

[balmy condor]

usually gouge

I think I've specced into cheaper vial maybe twice

[silk bane]

too real

[storm forum]

damn, whispyr an ethical gamer

[near valley]

I keep forgetting to press gouge

[spice surge]

I'd just recommend cheaper vial and feint

[near valley]

So cheaper vial is just my type of play