assassination

[unreal coyote]

for sin

[velvet haven]

5%

[uncut echo]

Nah they 100% do lmfao

[limber lion]

[uncut echo]

100% pb chance

[limber lion]

aura buff is 5% itself

[gaunt moat]

the only thing like sub we ask for is replicating shadows

[unreal coyote]

pb could just be an ability

[oak sky]

pb chance doesnt change complexity at all

[unreal coyote]

instead of ct or something

[velvet haven]

Didn't pin read 5%

[uncut echo]

Smart rep shadows

[sullen hollow]

mutilate and envenom 10.25%

[uncut echo]

Would be goated

[sullen hollow]

overall 5

[storm belfry]

So Is the buff slightly over 5%

[unreal coyote]

remove the rng of pb for us and make the thing we press matter more

imo

[maiden ginkgo]

Saying "content is doable" as an excuse for lack luster class feedback for an entire patch is do disingenuous it's crazy. You know why people are disapointed and trying to down play it. the reach.

[storm belfry]

W the two ability buffs

[limber lion]

If you read the pin you would see that it's been edited

and that it's wrong

[oak sky]

like people want sub aoe but with ic AND replicating shadows (redudant but still), no sectech and no shadowstrike under 6 targets

[limber lion]

and that he's rerunning sims

[oak sky]

thats what a lot of people want

[limber lion]

That's the leaked buffs, which includes blindside buff

which we did not get

[violet hollow]

hmm what are we simming now?

[unreal coyote]

i dont want sin to be like sub

[oak sky]

a lot of people do

they won't use those words but they do

[unreal coyote]

i just want it to be fleshed out better

IC 30s cd

[velvet haven]

Sorry just woke up, didn't see the text at the bottom

[spice spire]

Currently every sim but the 4p is correct

[oak sky]

like low key blizzard homogenizing specs makes the game better for everyone except die hard spec fans

[uncut echo]

Atris I'm not being disingenuous, this is just been a fucking echo chamber since prepatch. People got so fucking out of control they DMed realz personally and attacked him for lack of rogue changes.

Like

[unreal coyote]

uhhh

what

[uncut echo]

Based as fuck

[spice spire]

And when it’s done, I’ll edit that it’s all good

[oak sky]

like

i hate homogenization

more than anything

[uncut echo]

Nah big W Agreon

[oak sky]

it kills the game for me

[thorn fjord]

It only got bad after the ER nerf

[oak sky]

but it makes it easier for like

[unreal coyote]

spec identity is one of the few choices we get

[uncut echo]

Yeah

[oak sky]

half the players

[unreal coyote]

lol

[marble hemlock]

you cant control how individuals act

[oblique jackal]

Do we change in any talents in the sim

[spice spire]

Sorry for the inconvenience friends, did sims based on leaks before work and now I have to do napkin math and stuff on mobile

[oak sky]

blizzard designs for the lowest common denominator

[thorn fjord]

Tell that to North Korea

[unreal coyote]

which is why hunters do dmg-yes i know

[spice spire]

Currently no; however, the 4p hasn’t been implemented and this is only a ballpark representation of it

[oak sky]

thats totally unrelated to my point but sure

[uncut echo]

The moderation team can police people bashing devs and what not, which they started doing last month.

[marble hemlock]

but i think its important that people have a forum to voice their dissatisfaction, and if that ends up being a constant stream of voices, then maybe the problem is that theres been no changes since 10.0.5

[uncut echo]

You can.

[limber lion]

Last month?

[marble hemlock]

weve been moderating peoples actions towards devs since alpha

what are you talking about

[oblique jackal]

@spice spire heck yeah !! Thank you for the quick response. I’m happy regardless ! Sin has a lot of potential. Just bc it’s not “meta” doesn’t make it not great

[uncut echo]

The class discord spec chanmel designed to teach people to play the class and ask questions

[oak sky]

since 9.2

[limber lion]

My guy that's been our #1 rule since the day Realz stepped foot in here

[marble hemlock]

but we cant stop anybody from DMing someone

[thorn fjord]

<--- 2 day mute LOL

[limber lion]

It's not a recent thing

[uncut echo]

Is not a forum to bitch and complain

[unreal coyote]

devs are effectively our representatives and deserve feedback on their work or lack thereof

[limber lion]

If someone talks ill of a dev, they get perma'd

No questions.

[uncut echo]

There was an uptick in the policing of dev bashing as of last month, I literally saw it happen

Yes

[unreal coyote]

like personally like a personal attack?

[oak sky]

theres only so many times you can say the same thing and genuinely think the dev team didn't get the message

[unreal coyote]

no one should attack the humans themselves

[spice spire]

It’s supposed to have been the entire time but we made a point

[limber lion]

Oh alright, thanks for letting me know

Good to have you on the team

[spice spire]

Yes

[unreal coyote]

well thats not ok

[storm belfry]

Sorry I read it before it was edited

[thorn fjord]

I WAS USED AS AN EXAMPLE

[marble hemlock]

you kept detailed stats on that? cause all i can tell you is that weve been keeping track of any dev-related pings and postings for at least half a year, if not more

[unreal coyote]

to say they are out of touch is one thing

[thorn fjord]

😦

[spice spire]

Saying x decision is wrong is fine.
But like calling them an idiot is yeah

[uncut echo]

Cev dieslow was literally made an example out of in here

[marble hemlock]

if there was an uptick in moderation, its cause there was an uptick in people getting angry about it

[spice spire]

Waiting game

[uncut echo]

You can be dismissive all you want

[copper hazel]

i was worried Realz noped out after the WFH stuff but seems like we gucci

[marble hemlock]

hes not being dismissive. youre just wrong on this one.

[limber lion]

Our policy has not changed at all

It has been the exact same day 1

[oblique jackal]

^

[limber lion]

We have been enforcing it the exact same way all this time

[unreal coyote]

no one should levy personal attacks on the people

[oak sky]

literally what happened is 10.1 ptr rolled around

and everyone got pissed

[unreal coyote]

just their work etc

[limber lion]

Just means there's more people talking shit about someone if there's more policing to be had

[marble hemlock]

if people ping a dev, we know about it, and we react accordingly

[uncut echo]

I understand what you mean

[oblique jackal]

Don’t forget, the mods have lives too

[copper hazel]

yeh they live here

[marble hemlock]

the uptick in moderation is a direct result of more people being asses about it, not a change in policy/moderation. that one has been the same since beta

[oblique jackal]

Just be respectful of everyone.. regardless of title

[subtle tundra]

fufck i forgot hunter is azor territory i want sims

[winged veldt]

No need to talk tbh. People wanna be dumb then see them out and the rest of us don’t deal with the current spam not related to shit lol

[flint tusk]

I will say people do get way too triggered by how their spec performs.

yeh it can be frustrating sometimes but people get really childish about how big their virtual number isn't.

Mods do a great job at gauging when it's a random spat or an ongoing thing

[maiden ginkgo]

wait, i thought "mod" legit translated to "no life" 🧐 u wot?

[gaunt moat]

Anyway I'll sum these buffs as:
Taking away our candy, just to give it back months later, does not inspire me with confidence about their tuning regarding this spec.

is it a temporary band-aid? can we expect more?
No one can say.
As mentioned, they said they're not thinking of another ret pally scale rework.
But I'll still hold a candle for exsang.

[subtle tundra]

can whispry do survival sims?

[thorn fjord]

Prob

[upper breach]

SV tierset ST damage nerfed more than 50% 🤡

[thorn fjord]

But he's said he knows dick about other classes lol

[celest drift]

Feel like a huge band-aid buff to me

[thorn fjord]

Yeah SV got hit hard

[subtle tundra]

NOT good

[upper breach]

Can't wait for the bugs that come with it

[uncut echo]

I didn't mean to imply that the policy changed. I was saying that people just echo chamber in here and it's ridiculous when it's not even that problematic.

[marble hemlock]

ele tier set

[winged veldt]

I’m just stoked to see actual sims when half the shit is implemented. Or do we have sims up already?

[uncut echo]

I wasn't daying you guys are wrong at all for stopping dev bashing, I'm saying that the channels get out of control for zero reason.

[limber lion]

I'm gonna be honest. Get used to it. It's not going away.

[marble hemlock]

you dont get to be the judge on what is and isnt problematic. people express their own opinions, and they might see it as more problematic than you do. most of the regulars have been annoyed with the dooming, and weve taken steps to try to combat it, but we also dont wanna suppress peoples ability to voice their honest feelings and opinions, because those are crucial to the tuning efforts and community perception

[limber lion]

That's how discord and servers like these work

It's gonna be a lot of crying, shouting and whatnot, even if everything is going great

[upper breach]

Hunter Sims are up in hunter discord

[winged veldt]

Lmao

[upper breach]

[uncut echo]

Nah that's entirely fair, this entire discussion started because I was under the impression thst you were upset about the vibe shifting when we got bumped down to 5th best ST.

[winged veldt]

I hate you lol

[marble hemlock]

were not the 5th best ST

[uncut echo]

Which I misunderstood

[marble hemlock]

warcraftlogs is pointless

[limber lion]

There will always be people complaining about anything and they will, by nature, find new things to complain about.

[thorn fjord]

I hate breathing

[uncut echo]

Tell that to everyone who links WCLs

[thorn fjord]

Why the hell we gotta breath

[marble hemlock]

stop then

[limber lion]

I could care less about that shit.

[runic hinge]

Same tbh

[winged veldt]

Eh the buffs are enough I won’t be benched so idc lol

[rain oyster]

Same. Imma hold my breath

[marble hemlock]

i mean, we literally discussed it in the podcast

[limber lion]

Like I said already, vibe was referring to the communication between the community and the dev.

[marble hemlock]

but im not gonna spend every day and every hour in here

[limber lion]

Not the numbers or anything like that

[marble hemlock]

telling people the same thing

cuz it wont change how people feel

[limber lion]

Who gives a shit about numbers

[uncut echo]

Yeah, and I misunderstood, which I apologize.

[limber lion]

All good.

[oblique jackal]

I wonder how hard the tiny blades talent is gonna hit now

[rain oyster]

Player > their specs numbers

[marble hemlock]

20% harder

[runic hinge]

Stonks

[oblique jackal]

Big numbers

Well technically 25% harder

[runic hinge]

My cold blood AP ttb build 📈

[marble hemlock]

questions like these always remind me of playing with a mage who went on to say "dh gives me 5% magic damage. you dont understand how much that is"

[uncut echo]

About 5%

[tawny bloom]

5% damage increase has to be like 8% no ?

[rain oyster]

What’s 5% of 0 🤔

[oblique jackal]

Modifiers man

[tawny bloom]

your damage becomes healing

[winged veldt]

Wasn’t it a 5.5% without calculating in the flat 5% increase?

[steel spire]

Envenom crit for 30k let's gooooo

[gaunt moat]

The mut buff though, i don't get that one

[subtle tundra]

where my fok buff??????

only way to fix assa aoe

[gaunt moat]

They are VERY careful with FoK since legion.

[subtle tundra]

wasnt in in shadowlands?

[vague widget]

Design uncertainty. It was just apply more damage to buttons pressed to have it reviewed sometime in the future.

[uncut echo]

Legion FoK was insane

[subtle tundra]

(im talking about a certain individual using fok on st)

(as a meme)

[rain oyster]

Legion was the last time I used assass and m+ in the same sentence

[storm belfry]

You’re insane

[subtle tundra]

you havent been missing out

[marble hemlock]

i mean its quite obvious that these changes arent aimed at fixing aoe at all

[storm belfry]

[rain oyster]

Until now 😳

[flint tusk]

what was the situation with FoK in legion?

[marble hemlock]

yeah i love doing most of my aoe with my aoe builder

[uncut echo]

Big

[subtle tundra]

sir what are you building

[marble hemlock]

great design (im joking, in case you cant tell)

[gaunt moat]

It was so strong that you used it as a ST builder.

[spice spire]

Okay

Sims done

I did it

[oblique jackal]

Wooooot

[marble hemlock]

i mean that was only cuz of ns/dp bug tho @gaunt moat

[oblique jackal]

Celebrate !

[marble hemlock]

and that lasted like

[spice spire]

On mobile. Because I hate myself

[marble hemlock]

all of 2weeks

[oak sky]

i was there

[gaunt moat]

yes, but still

[uncut echo]

But shuriken storm 1 cp per target smart replicating shadows

[oblique jackal]

You’re a wizard @spice spire

[spice spire]

I did like

20% of the work

Whispyr did the hard things for me

[oblique jackal]

That’s exactly what they did with shiv

Seems fair

[rain oyster]

Take full credit tho 😎

[marble hemlock]

means he has to take all the blame too

if it goes wrong

now he can still blame the german

[uncut echo]

Seli moment

[spice spire]

That’s true tho

He’s out of line but he’s right

[flint tusk]

those pesky germans!

[spice spire]

(In reality, I’m going to ask them to be double checked because I literally learned how to adjust stuff this morning)

[marble hemlock]

im out of lime too

[oblique jackal]

Did whispyr zombie us

[spice spire]

But mathematically they’re within reason and seem correct

Nah he’s asleep

[flint tusk]

wait what

he sleeps?

since when

[spice spire]

Yeah

[chilly marsh]

I think community perception is the key here. And it's not good right now. The lack of changes is not cool when you open a pathnote expecting to see some changes and fix for your underperforming spec and there's literally 2 lines about rogue It's hard to not feel mad.
Sin have been underperforming since 9.2 I believe? it's a long time waiting for they to fix the spec to be good in AOE. The devs will just lose more and more of the community trust if nothing change.

[spice spire]

Believe it or not

[ember mural]

During the day he sleeps

[raw violet]

.

[marble hemlock]

thanks for your tireless work as always ❤️ also, did you see that one suggestion? think its worth hearing out #assassination message

[spice spire]

I hate it here

[marble hemlock]

[hollow vault]

just don't be mad lol

[spice spire]

What did I miss while I was gone

[flint tusk]

https://tenor.com/view/guldan-everything-hoodie-monster-orc-gif-17516569

[gusty mirage]

lmfaooooooooooo

[solar rose]

@marble hemlock

[limber lion]

I wanna do assa sims :(

[solar rose]

https://tenor.com/view/meow-gif-24525483

[flint tusk]

Monka an @

[limber lion]

dumb tier set

[marble hemlock]

hello mr pizzaman

long time no see

[spice spire]

Ngl it was very fun.

[gusty mirage]

wanna do me instead?

[spice spire]

I quite enjoyed learning about it.

[solar rose]

Are you excited I’m playing rogue again @marble hemlock

[spice spire]

Hope I can do more as time goes on

[marble hemlock]

wait what

[earnest remnant]

the two rogues i watched in BFA together in one channel

[marble hemlock]

the return of the king

[limber lion]

Mommy always said to eat dinner before desert, but we can make an exception because you're such a tasty snack

[wispy chasm]

ay yo flawless is back on rogue

pog

[solar rose]

Ya I’m playing rogue for bdg

[wispy chasm]

AY YO

Gratz gamer!

[marble hemlock]

[spice spire]

Grats homie. Also if that’s your puppy, I love them

[hollow vault]

lfg

[gusty mirage]

[raven merlin]

wtahts bdg

[marble hemlock]

big dumb gamers

[solar rose]

It is my puppy, my best friend

[oak sky]

Bdgg

[marble hemlock]

its BDG

not BDGG

[oak sky]

Oh

[hollow vault]

ggbdg

[flint tusk]

https://bigdumb.gg/

easy linkers

[storm belfry]

Don’t they call themselves this tho

[marble hemlock]

not anymore

[oak sky]

Did gg drop them because esports is getting fucked or smth

[marble hemlock]

at least thats what i was told like

a while ago

nah theyre still partnered but

the guild is called BDG

afaik

[coarse summit]

BDG- "home of the BDGG"

[oak sky]

Oh just a rename

Gotcha

Or a re rename

[marble hemlock]

ye

[coarse summit]

still sponsored by gg?

[marble hemlock]

[rain oyster]

Esports bubble bout to pop

👀

[coarse summit]

Golden Guardians are legends for sponsoring wow and ssbm

charity work

[oak sky]

When crypto started dying esports got fucked

[indigo mulch]

Man those buffs are huge for sin D;

[marble hemlock]

(as far as i know, anyway. just follow them on socials and youll know)

especially this flawless guy

[steel wind]

viable kingsbane builds when?

[marble hemlock]

id follow him

[flint tusk]

i mean he is flawless

Ayyyy

[royal lantern]

needs around 50%more to actually be playable above dtb

[gusty mirage]

in the future when they buff it another 38%

[subtle kiln]

@royal lantern is rouge saved?

[cobalt hemlock]

is dooming over? or just slighty less

[solar rose]

I will be streaming the race on rogue, but I will not shameless plug

[flint tusk]

slightly less

[steel wind]

kinda annoying that a fun button like kingsbane is so weak smh

[royal lantern]

i mean, less bad is good

[gusty mirage]

the dooming's never over when people see how much damage devastation evoker is doing

[spice spire]

Less

[marble hemlock]

@ruby idol you seeing this

man is following your footsteps

first dad then tisu now flawless

[spice spire]

He’ll be a chicken in 10.2

[marble hemlock]

tru

or play wrath

[subtle kiln]

quit wow when?

[marble hemlock]

like tisu

[noble leaf]

We at least on the table for buffs, do we keep doomin’ for more?

[marble hemlock]

[oak sky]

Speaking of tisu

[solar rose]

Miss dad and Tisu more than ev

[oak sky]

I gotta @ him in OT

[spice spire]

We just got buffs

[strange python]

I haven't seen sims for other classes yet, curious where 125k lands us in the stack

[marble hemlock]

good ol legion days

now we just need

zongo and morningwind back

[spice spire]

Literally less than an hour ago

[sweet dawn]

Only assa rogue could turn the first changes we've had in months into dooming

[spice spire]

Not great compared to some major damage classes I’ve seen

[oak sky]

Do you have good memories of SL seli 😳

[sweet dawn]

God I love this spec

[indigo mulch]

Warlocks are like 113k without bis gear 😄

[marble hemlock]

i became good friends with oxi during SL, so yeah

[oak sky]

But on the other hand me and daps became active

You cant forget that

[marble hemlock]

maybe id remember more, if your activity here was memorable. unlucky.

[strange python]

I know warlocks are out of this world with some as high as 160 but that could just be outliers heading for nerfs. Was curious where the median lies, but guess they're not really compiled yet

[oak sky]

💀

[marble hemlock]

[gaunt moat]

These changes are mostly a revert of the nerfs we just got for no justifiable reason months ago.
so yes, sure, performing better will be nice.
But is it gonna affect AoE viability? m+? not at all.
in the next raid it will definitely help, for sure. but this spec has bigger issues we are eager to see resolved.

[agile breach]

Sin getting a buff?

[spice spire]

Pins

[ruby idol]

Do what we could not champion

[strange python]

The biggest issue is the other contextual changes. These buffs would bring sin up to top 3 for single target in vault, but other classes also got buffed, tier sets aren't all equal, trinkets aren't all equal, etc.

[wispy chasm]

Didn't dad say he was gaming this season?

[subtle kiln]

forgettable

[oak sky]

Go back to sub

Shoo

[ruby idol]

Survive bdg without a harvesting passionate hatred for the officers (tho they are different now so maybe it will be better)

[oak sky]

Oh thats sick

[subtle kiln]

why my friends seli and quake are here.

@ruby idol hello friendo

[oak sky]

I have no friends here only enemies

[solar rose]

All the officers seem good so far I’ve been here, but I think the officer core is drastically different

[ruby idol]

Impakt and shampy are gone now, no?

Or was that fake news

[solar rose]

Yea

[wispy chasm]

Hi dad

[ruby idol]

Yeah I bet that guild fuckin owns now let's goooo

[sweet dawn]

Fax

[ruby idol]

Hi krypt

[oak sky]

When we getting a 10.1 tier list speedrun

[solar rose]

Also I’m here and I make everything better so yknow

[glass junco]

How is our buff not even 5%? shouldnt it be more?

[wispy chasm]

Dad please come back for just a day

[ruby idol]

You did make vodka more fun while I was there, it's true

[flint tusk]

this is actually so spot on xD

@sweet dawn It's not so much dooming it's just a lot of distrust needs mending from being ignored so long after promises were made

[agile breach]

Maybe it means sin is gunna get the half way through the season rework that ret got?

[ruby idol]

I think I am, I was thinkin about finding work this summer but maybe I just stream if m+ is fun

[spice spire]

No, because auto attacks aren’t 5% stronger. And everything else was pretty tame tbf

[gusty mirage]

a rare undad sighting

[spice spire]

And AA are a decent portion of our damage still

[oak sky]

Common oxi sighting

😗

[gusty mirage]

bro true, I need a new hobby

[oak sky]

Literally me

[gaunt moat]

@sweet dawn Also like.. mut buff? HUH?

[flint tusk]

lel patch 10.1.5 has been detected

[gusty mirage]

they're speed running DF

kinda wild

[sweet dawn]

True true, I just meant it as a meme but I 100% agree with what was said about the buffs afterwards and how they're nice but don't really target what actually needs buffing

[marble hemlock]

yo

dad AND flawless returning to streaming?

[flint tusk]

i mean i sorta get where they're going. they're probably trying to sort out giga CD reliance or atleast that's what i'd guess to give us more sustain during downtime

[marble hemlock]

then again, dad probably gonna stream as some hipster stuff again like survival or ret

[subtle kiln]

what’s next, Nova back to streaming?

[solar rose]

Freehold and underrot are back surely he goes back rogue

[royal lantern]

i mean, ion said that 10.1.5 is supposed to come out somewhat shortly after 10.1

but its mostly story stuff

[gusty mirage]

wahoo

y'all ever get hit with the realization

that you're this emotionally invested in a video game

and have a midlife crisis about it?

or is that just me

[oak sky]

Nah

[solar rose]

Just you, cause it’s ok to be emotionally invested into passions

[oak sky]

What point in my life am i

Wuarter

[deft flicker]

What is a midlife crisis??

[oak sky]

Quarter life crisis?

[gusty mirage]

true, my entire life has been in crisis

[coarse summit]

How do you see what items are being used in the sims?

[solar rose]

That’s why when ppl say it’s just a game, I’m ready to yell at them

[hollow vault]

yell at meee

[gusty mirage]

for the sims linked in the pins, you'd have to open the full html report

[coarse summit]

ok, will try to do that, ty

[gusty mirage]

this link on the side

[coarse summit]

ah, thanks

[gusty mirage]

then scroll to the bottom where it shows the gear

[deft flicker]

I’m kinda bad at knowing what some things are named so maybe I had that but didn’t know it was actually named that

Brainicle being weird

[cunning nest]

no designchanges really, but: assa is back ❤️

is enough for me

[steel ridge]

exsang is still there.

[gusty mirage]

exsang being removed is probably going to happen when they rework the trees

[gaunt moat]

Wait until WFR guilds start stacking sin again

[gusty mirage]

or changed

[gusty mirage]

why would they, ele sham is shitting on everyone rn after the lock nerfs

[storm onyx]

God no, pls

[royal lantern]

mate

you saw the dmg difference bettwen specs?

[storm belfry]

Ele sham in shambles rn

[white orchid]

Are we still going to be using the same 3 gems in the annulate ring as we have been using?

[storm belfry]

After their tier nerf

[royal lantern]

like, what evokers/warlocks do?

assa is not even CLOSE to be top tier at all lol

[gusty mirage]

warlocks did*

demo got ass blasted for being the PI baby again

[haughty flicker]

1% nerf

Ass blasted

[gusty mirage]

that's ass blasted for warlock

[haughty flicker]

Fair

[hallow token]

Happy about the buffs they mentioned. https://www.wowhead.com/news/upcoming-class-tuning-incoming-with-patch-10-1-havoc-dh-buff-prot-paladin-nerf-332669?webhook We'll see how it works out when it goes live.

[gusty mirage]

warlock doesn't get 5-10% nerfs

that's reserved for the non-hero classes of wow

[royal lantern]

1% nerf in warlock language translates into 40%for normal mortals

[flat kindle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[haughty flicker]

Yeah I forgot to translate it to mortal terms

[royal lantern]

same as a 20%buff for warlock is equal with 3% for everyone else

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

any 5% aura buff enjoyers?

[subtle kiln]

ele shaman don’t see this

[ruby idol]

dw i wont be playing rogue

[gusty mirage]

never forget destro 5% aura buff

week 1 of season 3 SL

no one had 4pc because it was literally impossible

and they decided to aura buff destro

lmao

[marble hemlock]

[gusty mirage]

you weren't this sad when I said I might swap to my warlock

wtf

[subtle kiln]

empty threats

[marble hemlock]

cuz i know you didnt like playing rogue and enjoyed lock

why would i want you to suffer?

dad on the other hand... im jealous of his ability to grow a glorious beard, he deserves some pain

[ruby idol]

man what lmao

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/ti-tip-sure-ok-mmm-gif-15934447

[near valley]

so sin new rogue ST then?

[gusty mirage]

seems that way

[subtle kiln]

always was

[gusty mirage]

a bit ahead of sub

[marble hemlock]

wdym, i remember the hobo dad streams and they made me feel inadequate as a man okay

[split veldt]

how much closer is Sin with AoE now?

[gusty mirage]

not even remotely

[near valley]

lmao

[gusty mirage]

[royal lantern]

mutilate changes wont buff aoe

[near valley]

how close

[royal lantern]

kekw

[subtle kiln]

on par with healers aoe dmg

[marble hemlock]

psure rsham has more burst than us

[gusty mirage]

idk man prevoker can pump some damage

[royal lantern]

thats not a big achievement tbh

[subtle kiln]

I WAS TRYING TO BE POSITIVE

[split veldt]

is Sin and Sub gonna use the same stats again?

[gusty mirage]

[marble hemlock]

i mean, almost all the buffs are to singletarget damage ye

[balmy condor]

no

[marble hemlock]

so our aoe is only buffed by the aura buff

[gusty mirage]

and dif embellishments

[split veldt]

fuu

[marble hemlock]

which is 4%. 4% of "barely beating/losing to tanks" is not really a meaningful development

[gusty mirage]

hi whispyr

[balmy condor]

hi oxi

[gusty mirage]

I hope you're having a wonderful friday

[split veldt]

there's a 5% damage to everything buff tho

so smahl upgrade to aoe

[subtle kiln]

5% of nothing is still nothing.

[flint tusk]

zomg Whispyre has awoken

[balmy condor]

been okay so far

[flint tusk]

for a minute i thought we'd lost you forever you never sleep!

[gusty kestrel]

u say that while ignoring my DMs

[gusty mirage]

[subtle kiln]

[royal lantern]

[gusty kestrel]

[split veldt]

so why are Sin and Sub gonna use different stuff this time?

[balmy condor]

I went to bed at 6:30

[balmy condor]

cause sub likes vers and sin doesnt

[royal lantern]

sub goes vers now for st

assa doesnt

[split veldt]

oic

[subtle kiln]

sub can take advantage of shadow dmg. dunno if assa was looking to use it

[royal lantern]

vers, the stat for specs that are shit

[still pollen]

sin good? Pog

[limber lion]

This time?

We have never shared stats with sub 1-to-1

[split veldt]

well shit, i was thinking about going Sin for raid and Sub M+, sadge

[split veldt]

i thought you did S1

[solar rose]

I got tested positive for covid so I’ve been dying then I forget to reply cause I’m busy dying, aka I’m a bad friend

[split veldt]

crit/mast

[limber lion]

No

Yeah well yeah

[split veldt]

and same trinkets

[hollow vault]

lmfao

[limber lion]

Assa is more like haste/mast/crit BUT NO VERS

[gusty kestrel]

so what ure saying is ur covid has higher prio than my DM?

[spice spire]

Sin doesn’t really heavy index into any of the big 3

[gusty kestrel]

[limber lion]

at the end of the day it legit doesn't really matter what stats you use

[royal lantern]

34% crit and then w/e

[limber lion]

Just because you use different stats doesn't mean that you can't play a spec lol.

[solar rose]

I swear I love you!!! I’m a bad friend!!!

[limber lion]

the difference is minimal

just play the same shit, doesn't matter

[gaunt moat]

heh i'm just joking about what happened last tier 🙂

[gusty kestrel]

feel better soon my love

[thin trout]

[echo heath]

5% buff squad, rise up!

[gusty mirage]

lmfao what on earth is this

[earnest remnant]

LOL

SANIC

[subtle kiln]

36%

[royal lantern]

heresy

[subtle kiln]

https://tenor.com/view/heresy-located-heresy-joffrey-rage-heretical-gif-14530076

[gusty mirage]

didn't even object to it

[thin trout]

https://tenor.com/view/sanic-the-hedgehob-running-gotta-go-fast-fast-gif-4964355

[hot chasm]

patch goes on shoulder after eranog ring is replaced?

[subtle kiln]

thinking you’re replacing ring

[spice spire]

You are

Actually

[flint tusk]

rekt

[spice spire]

It’s a new embellishment

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr/item=204706/spore-colony-shoulderguards?ilvl=447

[storm belfry]

When do we replace onyx ring

[gusty mirage]

never

[flint tusk]

never

[haughty flicker]

Next expac

[spice spire]

That’s the neat part, you don’t!

[gusty mirage]

maybe in 10.2

[subtle kiln]

@spice spire I’ll believe it when I see it.

[storm belfry]

What the fuck

[gaunt moat]

i was looking into getting the boots recipe.
0.5% drop rate from brackenhide bosses.... uhhhhhhhhhhh

[gusty mirage]

good job team

we did it

we have half our bis rings already

[spice spire]

Bro it’s literally the sim

[storm belfry]

At least not stuck with Eranog ring also

[flint tusk]

We're so bloody efficient!

rogue powa

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/alucore-gif-21193899

[haughty flicker]

A slightly more serious answer is they said they might look at the ring again in 10.1.5

But no changes currently

[storm belfry]

Oxi that is terrifying

[storm belfry]

Do we double stack that new patch?

[spice spire]

The one I posted today?

[subtle kiln]

the one that had the rings

idkwtfuwupostedtoday

[vapid sierra]

what ilvl are the sims that whisper posted

[royal lantern]

fuwu

[vapid sierra]

or sorry

mike posted

[winged veldt]

Man’s malding lol

[rain oyster]

I still don’t understand wtf toxic armor patch is. Don’t we just have 2 nature based embellishments on boots and shoulder? Toxic patch I thought is it’s own embellishment so can’t have 3?

[white orchid]

Was going to ask the same thing. What does the last sentence mean on those shoulders

The toxic patch part

[storm belfry]

You double it’s effect

I think

[rain oyster]

Or is toxic patch some BS you tack on in an alter of decay and it isn’t an embellishment?

[haughty flicker]

It’s an embellishment

[storm belfry]

Toxic patch amplifies the embelli

[haughty flicker]

You just put on any leather working gear

[balmy condor]

447

[storm belfry]

It’s it’s own thing

[hot chasm]

BiS is still the shoulder/boots combo it seems

[rain oyster]

So we aren’t using toxic patch at all just boots shoulders?

[balmy condor]

you could use boots + patch or shoulders + patch to save money

but it's not bis, no

[gusty mirage]

you on mobile?

[rain oyster]

Ty

[gusty mirage]

it's a caching thing if so

[white orchid]

Ohhh okay got it now lol

[gusty mirage]

I'll DM you the links to the sims scath

[white orchid]

So it’s both pieces or a piece with patch got it

[hot chasm]

Will the proffession skill lvls increase, or will we have a buyers market this time aroun

[balmy condor]

nah he was opening fuu sheet or something not the pins

[gusty mirage]

oh

ignore me

[balmy condor]

new recipes but not new skills for knowledge

[oak sky]

shoulders and boots are both op right

[storm belfry]

What’s the new boot one

[oak sky]

oh they go together i think

[harsh cypress]

how big are the buffs for 10.1 ?

[royal lantern]

5% st

[subtle kiln]

ye

[thorn adder]

wonder if loaded dice will be as crazy as it was in bfa

[tawny bloom]

by boots are we talking about expulsion boots or the thorn footwraps?

[gusty mirage]

I hope so, I loved that trinket

[gaunt moat]

thorn footwraps fuck me i guess

[thorn adder]

same

[gusty mirage]

Such a banger trinket

[balmy condor]

expulsion

[tawny bloom]

thanks!

if people on kazzak eu i can get them crafted cheap to 418

[burnt star]

Its in the pin lol

[harsh cypress]

oh well x)

thanks

[dusky granite]

Do we think the Nightstalker fix means it works now?

[sweet dawn]

Still useless for us anyway

Well, worse

[gaunt moat]

I'm just happy to see it fixed. it's a taint on the state of the game when a talent does nothing.

[dusky granite]

Idk, if it applied to all Garrotes used out of stealth, I’d at least consider it for M+

[eager solstice]

Which spec is winner after todays buff?

[thorn fjord]

Demo lock

Oh mb Arms war

[near valley]

not us

[balmy condor]

it works, and snapshots bleeds

but without a stealth with a duration, it won't apply to much

carnage -> garrote from stealth does work though

[burnt star]

We are still behind dh and ww. And lock are at like 146k
:smh

But a buff is a buff

Means it could change a lot in the first few week

[subtle kiln]

it only took entire patch cycle to get NS fix

it’ll be fine

[burnt star]

Just not sure why they are so sticked up to that 4p. Maybe 10.2 will be better

[winter gale]

Is our gap with subtlety any narrower with these buffs?

[spice spire]

We’re behind WW 🤨 ?

[winter gale]

Im always trying just to compare between our 3 specs

[green juniper]

This will be my first patch i am guessing 2nd may is for na 3rd may is for us?

[spice spire]

Yes

But raid doesn’t release until tenth iirc

For eu

[flint tusk]

NA are EU's beta testers

[winter gale]

Is this new tier set better for more targets but just playing bad or?

[thorn fjord]

https://tenor.com/view/egg-eggs-cripsy-srispy-crispy-gif-24969609

[balmy condor]

after the nerf to CT on the tier set it's worse than our current tier everywhere

[winter gale]

Ah

[thorn fjord]

Nostalgia angle

[winter gale]

I just switched to sub few days ago.

[dusky granite]

Mmm, I was hoping the Improved Garrote window would count too. Tragic

[burnt star]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6F1oRQ5voBHLyr6qAKSi4e this was before the recent balance change. Their buff is around 4%. Bringing them around 126k.

[balmy condor]

at least thats what the jank implementation I did was showing

[green juniper]

I am hoping for talent tree rework

[spice spire]

So they’re on par with us

[balmy condor]

yeah no, improved garrote is 3 seconds for garrote, not 3 seconds of stealth effects, you would need subterfuge for that on the class tree

[winter gale]

Why don’t they buff it on places and talents where it needs to be?

[sweet dawn]

So with the Nightstalker change will IC garrote just do 25% more damage?

[flint tusk]

we don't take night stalker

[balmy condor]

8% if you take it, which you don't

where are you getting 25% from

[burnt star]

1k ahead. 125.6 vs 126.88. But whatever word u prefer. Its non sens no mather how we look at it tbh

[winter gale]

I dont know/understand, do they need some specs to be bad or?

[balmy condor]

what

[sweet dawn]

Ngl idk

[flint tusk]

i mean there is always going to be a "bad" spec. which is the wrong way of looking at it. it's how close to the average everyone is that matters for a balance purpose. but player skill has a bigger input

[green juniper]

Idk about devs but reddit wants rogue to be garbage..

[balmy condor]

reddit also wants to call people slurs and spread misinformation about vaccines

idk if I really care about what they wnat

[thorn fjord]

And traffic humans

[brisk tapir]

R word should be banned

[green juniper]

Apparently rogue always been good at everything and we should stop crying rn

[dull cloak]

do devs look at reddit.

[thorn fjord]

Respec?

[tired night]

I hope not

[winter gale]

I used a wrong word tbh. Let’s say badly developed, less impactful, suboptimal or whatever

[thorn fjord]

cries in sv

[tired night]

Reddit complains that the pure DPS classes are historically good at DPS

[winter gale]

I love assa, that’s my favorite spec

[swift magnet]

tell them the hybrid tax never existed, yielded good results back in the day

[thorn fjord]

Cmon guys its Friday we finally got some patch notes and they werent awful

We should be in a decent mood right now

[green juniper]

Doom and gloom

[thorn fjord]

Gotta keep it posi

https://tenor.com/view/jaredalonge-die-for-pop-punk-gif-11271572

[tired night]

Guardian druid patch notes were new animations and that's it. We came out pretty strong lol

[swift magnet]

dhs got 8% or so I think

[burnt star]

No

4.1%

[green juniper]

I am going to be my warlock friend’s pet

[balmy condor]

@cold turtle stop the sims

[winter gale]

How many of you with CE exp will stay assa?

[bronze pike]

go bees go

[balmy condor]

[raven merlin]

100% i will stay

[spice spire]

Don’t lie you sub OTP

[cold turtle]

i was a bit wrong

it's 3.5

[winter gale]

I have 1-2 more rogues in guild team

[balmy condor]

okay but what is it if you lunchbox

[cold turtle]

wrong spec

[balmy condor]

right color

[rigid tartan]

Is assa changes sim with different gear level than sub? It’s more than 20k more

[balmy condor]

it's 447

[winter gale]

Will I lose the spot if spec will be less optimal and we are all same skill wise…I will just stay assa

IDGAF

[thorn fjord]

I'll start as sin to test the waters

[grim tangle]

I will play sin on the bench :)

[winter gale]

Too much time I spent thinking what should I do 😂

I just swapped all my gear etc for sub

[balmy condor]

should play whats fun to you

[winter gale]

Enchants, gems etc

[subtle kiln]

if I was staying on rogue I’d be assa 10.1

[gaunt moat]

Any idea how's Feral doing ST after 5% buff?

[subtle kiln]

5% better

[thorn adder]

do you still play assa in m+

[gaunt moat]

i'll bonk you 😠

[balmy condor]

I do

[winter gale]

Yes, and then on raid night they all asked me why am I not playing sub on rasza M

[balmy condor]

not that I really do m+ these days

[autumn frost]

So we got a 5.5% buff?

[burnt star]

https://tenor.com/view/dance-dancing-dance-off-dance-moves-dance-party-gif-13920047

Feral discord

[winter gale]

And at the end of the night I was no1 boss dmg

[subtle kiln]

[winter gale]

On kill pull too

[gaunt moat]

Do you have a number though? hah

[burnt star]

U can hop on their discord. I dont go there so cant help u

[gaunt moat]

I don't wanna get rabies

[subtle kiln]

I left the discord once we found a druid

[burnt star]

Same

[cold turtle]

@balmy condor we may have gotten a 3.6% damage buff, but we also got a playstyle nerf (new maintenance buff on an otherwise dead global)

soo

dh on balance??

[thorn adder]

i like sin but my biggest concern was not being able to swap back and forth to outlaw with the stats being different. i guess ill just hard crank sin in keys to

[tired night]

I started playing sin in keys from boredom it's way less meme than I thought

[subtle kiln]

you can swap back and forth

[balmy condor]

wait, maintenance buff on a dead global?

that's just assassination

[tired night]

Outlaw barely cares about stats

[subtle kiln]

stets may not be optimal but you can 100% swap around

[burnt star]

Learn sub. Its almost the same gear

[cold turtle]

[tired night]

When a class's best secondary is verse it usually means secondaries barely matter to them lol

[subtle kiln]

don’t do that to yourself

[balmy condor]

I didn't realize that vers best stat on sub and vers worst stat on sin is almost the same gear

and different embellishments

[tired night]

What maintenance buff? I thought we already took most of them

[burnt star]

Sub in m+

[balmy condor]

and different weapon enchants

but yah, close enough I guess

[burnt star]

Wasnt much different lol

[oblique jackal]

Sin should look go for the raid bc i heard its mostly ST?

[haughty flicker]

both use daggers

[rich vine]

On pinned sims 2p damage combined with rupture damage? Can't find it

[haughty flicker]

basically the same gear

[balmy condor]

the tier isn't in sims

[cold turtle]

serrated glaive

[burnt star]

Sub in m+ was crit mastery
We just prefered haste more

But also lets be honest what gear did we change

Belt/boot?

Thats it

[balmy condor]

yeh

and now you change embellishments and enchants

[thorn adder]

dont tell me i have to press slice and dice more than once now

[fading wigeon]

so with these buffs, is sin the best st of the three specs?

[balmy condor]

havoc pressing slice and dice would be quite a thing

[tired night]

Yeah next tier it's gonna be tougher to swap them around without a lot of extra gear

[rich vine]

But 4p works?

[balmy condor]

maybe

[thorn adder]

ah i missed the context

[balmy condor]

4p is in fact, part of the tier, which I just said isn't in sims

[fading wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-and-dumber-lloyd-theres-a-chance-jim-carrey-gif-11098164

[spice spire]

Reminder

Kinda goes for the 2p too

[fading wigeon]

ah ok , sorry read over that part

[spice spire]

All good

2p was easier (for whispyr) to give a better number on

I’m just the monkey that was awake

[thorn fjord]

Ape together strong

[prisma carbon]

i have 2 extra sparks. is the best use for them the slime boots along with a different neck?

[balmy condor]

the best use for them is probably reputation

or throw them off a cliff or something

you'll need the new mats anyway

so

kinda doesn't matter

[normal olive]

buffs big assa now saved?

shiv op now?

[spice spire]

I beg

Read the pin

[indigo mulch]

lmao

[spice spire]

There’s no opener there

[balmy condor]

it's navi

[spice spire]

Ur safe

[normal olive]

xDD

[balmy condor]

he's just being a dumbass

[spice spire]

Ik he is

[normal olive]

yea

[spice spire]

I had to get my opener dunk in man

[balmy condor]

literally incapable of containing himself

[spice spire]

[steel spire]

We love big shivs 💅🏾

[normal olive]

just had to meme it because a buddy dm'd me the buffs xD

[spice spire]

+65 dps

[craggy oak]

Super happy about the buffs, buffs are buffs. But why do you think we still have a 3 point node?

[oak sky]

Just lucky

[thorn adder]

me personally im going to keep them in my bag so they are sent into the abyss on tuesday

[hallow gyro]

is it enough to go back to kingsbane ?

[craggy oak]

No

[spice spire]

Dudes really leaving out the real question

[normal olive]

You guys think its good to run 3 ass rogues now that we are buffed?

[strange python]

yea for sure for sure

[spice spire]

CT ST ?!?!?!

(That needs full implementation, jokes aside)

[runic hinge]

DTB AP with shiv buff?!?!

[spice spire]

No

Still worse

[runic hinge]

I’m kidding

[spice spire]

I know

But in case anyone was wondering

That’s the answer

[strange python]

that 8 dps increase will go a long way

have faith

[spice spire]

65

[gaunt moat]

@burnt star I've been told that WW sim you've compared sin to, is from the start of PTR, before tierset nerf.
and there are no updated sims available.
so it's likely ww is not on par or close to sin.

[rapid prism]

is my haste too low for Assa going into 10.1?

[spice spire]

Haste % doesn’t matter. You just plug in what sims best and move on

So it’s not

[ruby birch]

guys

alchemist is saved

20% buff

[spice spire]

65 dps huge

[ruby birch]

yuuuge

[spice spire]

Little over 5% overall is nice tho

The specific buffs were confusing but outside of that? Nice numerically

[burnt latch]

[spice spire]

?

[elfin portal]

so it should look like Sin for raid and Outlaw for m+

[burnt latch]

is looking real bad

i needed more than this

[spice spire]

It’s looking like this is just a placeholder.
No conclusions should be drawn as definite except “this is a ballpark of what our ST looks like”

[burnt latch]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/384722278241533963/1101620618002186370/3276848e9e856fb3953623dec3706bc4.png?width=1043&height=725

[spice spire]

[silk bane]

i saw this and said maybe it'll be fine

does that mean im in bargaining?

or denial?

[spice spire]

Both

[silk bane]

plot twist!

[swift magnet]

no it means they dont really know wht they are doing

[silk bane]

how can i be in denial if im also in bargaining

MAKE IT ALL MAKE SENSE QUAKE

[thorn adder]

if you are getting your hopes up you might speed run it and skip to depression tier

[spice spire]

I barely make sense as is

[silk bane]

jokes on you ive already reached acceptance

gonna move to moongaurd with quake. the real MG realm

[spice spire]

[silk bane]

hes gonna tank for me

im gonna stab stab

[storm belfry]

Sin for all my brother

[elfin portal]

🙂

[thorn fjord]

Poke poke

Return of the Jedi tonight in theaters

Lfg

[near valley]

2nd best movie

after Revenge of the Sith ofc

[spice spire]

Alright

We’re so back

[silk bane]

no no listen listen

rogue 1

was legit based

[craggy oak]

Prepare for a hot take

[near valley]

was a good movie true

[craggy oak]

Phantom menace, best film

[near valley]

[thorn fjord]

Person of class

Revenge of the sith is my favorite

[near valley]

[silk bane]

okay who here watch mandalorian

like season 3

[thorn fjord]

We don’t talk about season 3

I’d like to pretend it didn’t happen

[strange python]

Hmm. So after buffs sin with tier set is barely ahead of outlaw with no tier.

[spice spire]

Loose estimation

[thorn fjord]

Rip Mike

[near valley]

shit

best take i can give

[strange python]

I think sin should do more ST than outlaw, I guess. Oh well

[thorn fjord]

It’ll happen trust

[strange python]

And I know it's very early unoptimized sims, but that's not super encouraging.

[thorn fjord]

[near valley]

Outlaw Nation

[spice spire]

No I mean

[near valley]

[spice spire]

That’s not with 4p

[strange python]

Our sim is without 4p?

[spice spire]

It’s just a clever ballpark with whispyr

So like

0 interactions are accounted for

[strange python]

Oh well the outlaw one isn't even ballparking

I guess we hope that whispyr is way underestimating

[near valley]

our tier is just 5%

[thorn fjord]

Is that for sure?

[near valley]

damage increase so like

[spice spire]

So there could very much be gain since we’re running nature damage stuff without that

[strange python]

Maybe

[spice spire]

Yes, as the one who ran the sims

[strange python]

I'm still curious to see sims for other classes.

The only ones I've seen as ours and warlocks

[spice spire]

Lock sims

[strange python]

I'm curious if they're the outlier or we are

Their sims ATM are disgusting

[thorn fjord]

How bloated are the lock sims

[strange python]

145k

[brazen zodiac]

quake!!!!!!!

[thorn fjord]

Sheesh

[near valley]

that demo nerf was like 1000 dps loss

[strange python]

That's for demo and destro

[spice spire]

They have a 200 one floating around apparently where they exploit the healing thing and get all externals

So that was neat

[strange python]

I have an issue with destro, a historically cleave spec, doing that much at

[thorn fjord]

Fair and balanced gameplay

[silk bane]

dude right?????? like what even happened what the fuck was that

[thorn fjord]

Is aff back in the gutter?

[strange python]

But blizzard doesn't seem to think cleave specs should have to suffer on st

[near valley]

Favreau flew to close to the soon with this season

[near valley]

ye

aff got nerfed after 5 days of being the best

went back to being bad

[thorn fjord]

Nah he’s just spread way too thin with everything disneys trying to get him to don

[near valley]

[thorn fjord]

Do

It’s stupid

And Filoni can’t write a script to save his life

[near valley]

fair

[silk bane]

idk man, i feel like disney doesnt have a story to tell

but they gotta put out content

for the streaming service thats failing

[near valley]

they've run outta creativity fr

[gaunt moat]

Rumors are that it was KK who intervened this season + there are rumors that Favreau is leaving

[silk bane]

and theyre like welp, heres a 1 episode story

stretch it over 8

g

l

[near valley]

ngl she is running star wars into the ground so i could understand if he leaves

tis next trilogy they got coming up has no faith from me whatspever

[silk bane]

as for this, locks are around 145-146k, i heard devos are around 160k, ele shammans around 146k, most specs are around 135k. right now all 3 specs do less st than boomies and havoc

KK litearlly killed everything she touched

still tho, force awakens was a good time and rogue 1 was goated

then it went downhill

[gaunt moat]

Only hope now is Andor.
Season 1 was amazing.

[silk bane]

oh truue

andor was so good too

legit best thing they put on D+

[thorn adder]

i find it hard to believe all 3 rogue specs will stay as low as ppl are saying. they will just giga buff one so all 3 yellow specs are not at the bottom

[thorn fjord]

Andor is a snooze fest

[silk bane]

youre a snooze fest

i loved andor

[thorn fjord]

Thing is we’re always going to shine in M+

[silk bane]

it was the only one that felt like it had grit

[strange python]

Andor is the best show on television in the last two years.

[thorn fjord]

And im willing to bet more people play M+ than raid mythic

[near valley]

force awakens was kinda propped by nostalgia