or it could be like now, where it's worse single target than sub, and doesn't see play anyway
#assassination
slow tulip
still good at execute COPIUM
balmy condor
balmy condor
slow tulip
plush delta
is night elf objectively better for m+ with the access to meld as 2nd vanish?
it seems like a significant dps increase for access to triple ss garotte over the other races
vestal wren
!sheet
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
vestal wren
thry all sim within low margins for dungeon slice
subtle tundra
Hehe am troll
And my hunter is male blood elf. I like mentioning this cause people get triggered
misty holly
still good at execute COPIUM
We just need better encounter design. Like what about Alextrasza and the boss are in a battle when we walk into the room. Boss is at 35% but about to kill alexstrasza when we leap in to defend her.
so whole fight is 35% to zero
load a few of those into the new raid and we good.
vestal wren
the reason sin und sub single target is about equal is the ring btw.
oak tangle
is night elf objectively better for m+ with the access to meld as 2nd vanish?
is not a second vanish, does not work like that
pseudo hamlet
We just need better encounter design. Like what about Alextrasza and the boss a...
We getting M+ HoI with Irideus so... there's that!
vestal wren
i think the easiest way to fix it would be to just make it so
you get a item level equivalent stat ring (possibly with socket)
subtle tundra
I don't even have to ring on rogue
vestal wren
so you have a strong ring that you will replace long term still
keeping it "as is"
well lets say will probably not end up as expected
#tc-research message
runic hinge
!Whispyr
prisma monolithBOT
Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev
plush delta
is not a second vanish, does not work like that
does it not work like that? it allows you to restealth in combat for any non boss encounter
vestal wren
it is a bit more complex
it allows you to get stealth benefits outside of boss encounters
e.g. on trash fights in m+
during bosses, you don't get full benefits
hexed flicker
How are the specs shaping up for 10.1 anyway? I haven't seen you guys say anything good about assassination.
marble hemlock
is night elf objectively better for m+ with the access to meld as 2nd vanish?
meld is a bit funky, in that it "stealths" you but only for the purposes of being a viable target for spells etc. it also drops combat, if the fight allows it, but if you use meld inside a pack, youll instantly get into combat again
this means that to actually gain triple garrote value from meld, you have to move away from the pack a bit to not instantly get proxy-aggro/combat from your dots ticking, and then manually press the stealth button
obviously on bosses it doesnt work at all, because bosses dont let you stealth whatsoever
it can be quite useful in m+ though as you said, just gotta learn the behind-the-curtain mechanics and play around those
balmy condor
How are the specs shaping up for 10.1 anyway? I haven't seen you guys say anythi...
sub and outlaw just look better
not a lot of people still playing sin
it's more effort for equal or worse output
hexed flicker
sub and outlaw just look better
That's a shame, I tried them and I sucked at the new version of both. Especially sub, dear god that spec is weird.
Maybe I should practice outlaw before the next patch, see if I can get the hang of it.
It probably says a lot I still call it combat in my head. It's been a while.
oak tangle
does it not work like that? it allows you to restealth in combat for any non bos...
i mean you can restealth but it's so minute of a benefit in trash packs that it's meh
marble hemlock
its decent value for the silence, or if the tank chains and you would have to otherwise do a non-stealth IC setup
but its not a dps cooldown you press on cd, its just a way to gain more consistency on pulls or for utility
uncut echo
That's a shame, I tried them and I sucked at the new version of both. Especially...
Sub takes an hour to get down
Outside of dance its literally gloom gloom evis or gloom gloom gloom evis
And dance is quite literally gloom evis ss sectech ss 1-2 times evis ss evis
quasi pine
Sub main coming in 3s to tell you that his spec is so hard you need at least 5 brains to understand it
quasi pine
You're the exception that make the rule
tbf it's not the most braindead spec, but the most braindead spec for rogue
uncut echo
Nah sin rogue is easier
quasi pine
You think?
uncut echo
Ya
quasi pine
In mono and multi?
quasi pine
stooop 
i'm playing this shit in m+
uncut echo
quasi pine
stop laughing 
uncut echo
Oki am sorry
spice spire
Im a sub main
Greetings and salutations, it seems you’ve admitted to being a sub main. As a result, it would be appreciated if you added that role to you discord account. Thanks, management
valid whale
uncut echo
Greetings and salutations, it seems you’ve admitted to being a sub main. As a re...
Okay bdk
quasi pine
I really wanna die when I see that i'm top 300 in sin with 2k8 in m+ 💀
nobody is playing
spice spire
quasi pine
how??
quasi pine
oh ok
quasi pine
uncut echo
Altho I think next wee if I get a shot at it I'm going for sin raz
quasi pine
council I do a good 140k
quasi pine
yeah sub looks so much better
spice spire
He called me a sub main
You called yourself a sub main 🤨
uncut echo
Bc it is
quasi pine
but it's not my playstyle at all
uncut echo
Sub feels more like an assassin than assassination
Idk, sin rogue is wild
Quake, 20s and chill this weekend?
Woyer is 406 now
quasi pine
Yeah I never understood the fact that assassination is more of a master of poison than anything else
name is not fitting
quasi pine
real
hexed flicker
Sin rogue in multi
Hey we do good aoe every 60 seconds
uncut echo
No you dont
vague widget
Black powder is not subtle however. Look at my bomb hands lmao.
uncut echo
Sub does 200k minimum every pull
hexed flicker
Sub does 200k minimum every pull
Geeze we really don't. Like I said I think I might use the next month to practice outlaw so I have an aoe build to fall back on.
hexed flicker
I just can't get my head around these openers in the rotation guides. They're confusing.
uncut echo
I just can't get my head around these openers in the rotation guides. They're co...
Thats why we practice
hexed flicker
Like why do you do that then settle into a different rotation? It's a lot to remember
uncut echo
Wym settle into a different rotation
hexed flicker
Apparently assassination has one too that I don't do.
uncut echo
I think they mean opener from yesterday
uncut echo
Its really simple when you get down to it
hexed flicker
What do you not do in this opener?
A lot of it. I go garrote -> slice and dice -> bone spike -> echoing reprimand -> rupture -> exsanguinate/deathmark -> shiv then I just maintain bleeds, envenom as filler, shiv and echoing reprimand on cd.
uncut echo
I mean we had this talk yesterday
quasi pine
Yes
hexed flicker
Why would I override the stealth garrote so soon?
uncut echo
You don't
uncut echo
Imp garrote lasts for 3 seconds
quasi pine
you have 3 s to reapply it
uncut echo
Go gar snd gar is a max pandemic imp garrote
hexed flicker
Oh I see
quasi pine
that's why we do garrote > sad > garrote
so you cap it from 18s to 25 s if i'm correct (or 24?)
uncut echo
23
quasi pine
and you do the same with rupture
and then exs
- deathmark after all that
(you have things in between but i'm just saying that for the basics of bleeds)
uncut echo
We had this same talk yesterday or the day before, with the same explanations
hexed flicker
So normal rupture into echoing reprimand rupture applies the 7 point version on top of the old one and increases the duration?
quasi pine
We had this same talk yesterday or the day before, with the same explanations
I said the same thing too yesterday 
uncut echo
So normal rupture into echoing reprimand rupture applies the 7 point version on ...
Read the pandemic part
And the opener should click like a lightbulb
quasi pine
oh btw, I am dumb, or is the tree recommanded for sin in m+ isnt quite right?
quasi pine
wait i'll send a tree
like, two stacks of Improved poison is not optimal in my experience
compared to flying daggers
(In high key I mean, when you do big pulls everytime)
hexed flicker
And the opener should click like a lightbulb
It does make a lot more sense now
That might even be why I couldn't make sense of sub/outlaw
spice spire
(In high key I mean, when you do big pulls everytime)
Wouldn’t this be more of a reason to have improved poison. Since fok actually spreads poisons
quasi pine
same for defensive talent, I feel ike improved sprint and unbreakable stride arent a good choice, you have Nimble fingers and deadened nerves that is much better (in my opinion) maybe there is a reason why and I simply dont understand
quasi pine
Wouldn’t this be more of a reason to have improved poison. Since fok actually sp...
you spread them pretty easily already
not sure a 5% buff is that effective vs a 15% dmg buff + range
spice spire
Yeah. And having a higher % to apply per means that you’re getting the instant value off of deadly more.
Range is never an issue with fok, or if it is, holy
quasi pine
and the 5% is THAT important?
uncut echo
Yes
quasi pine
mmh
quasi pine
0% damage from fok × 15%
wdym 0% x15%?
uncut echo
5% in poisons is only 1.2% off exsanguinate
gray crest
FoK is also soft capped while poisons are not capped
uncut echo
Yeee
uncut echo
FoK is also soft capped while poisons are not capped
Gm sweetheart
gray crest
we finally killed raz after like 3 days
uncut echo
Nice! I got my kill last night too!
gray crest
eyy I just got my third
uncut echo
Where poison bomb
quasi pine
poison bomb is far in big pulls, higher on smaller pulls (4/5 targets)
past 5 target poison bombs falls a lot in my dps
uncut echo
That seems false
quasi pine
cause all mobs arent in the poison bomb at the same time
rose berry
daft question but still learning sin rogue, do you use DM after the exan expires or during?
uncut echo
daft question but still learning sin rogue, do you use DM after the exan expires...
Use dm RIGHT after exsang is cast
quasi pine
Pb is bigger than you think
i'll check some logs from my keys
rose berry
Use dm RIGHT after exsang is cast
ty, I read somewhere you had to wait, but that didn't seem to add up
gray crest
you just dont want to exsanguinate your DM
rose berry
you just dont want to exsanguinate your DM
so basically if you dm first you dont exan, but if you exan first then you can DM immediately
quasi pine
but yeah knives were only at 3.5M (in a tyrannical week, idk in fortified, i need to log)
uncut echo
so basically if you dm first you dont exan, but if you exan first then you can D...
That is correct
Never exsang when dm is on the target
Exsang first
rose berry
that makes sense ty 🙂
uncut echo
spice spire
So here’s the breakdown.
Both are old dungeons so eh.
The one with fok above is in AA with Crit % (can’t effect poisons) and a dungeon where entire rooms were pulled (full pull tree room, triple pulled before last boss, triple pulled bridge) the other was a fortified 21 sbg when I was like 409, or 411 some shit like that. So the difference is pretty varying
You might be able to get the flying dagger gain on AA if you take crit > vers
That’s about all I could possibly see tho
rose berry
also is it worth waiting until the 20 stack on poison before you envenom, and envenoming even if you're a combo point short from max? I've played too much outlaw and actually prefer how sin rogue plays, I'm just not hitting high single target in keys atm
Aoe i do well
uncut echo
also is it worth waiting until the 20 stack on poison before you envenom, and en...
No, pretend thst poison isnt there
quasi pine
You might be able to get the flying dagger gain on AA if you take crit > vers
i got a lot of crit and little vers
gray crest
also is it worth waiting until the 20 stack on poison before you envenom, and en...
it only consumes 5 iirc
spice spire
i got a lot of crit and little vers
I’m talking about the buff
I too have a lot of crit and only a lil vers
uncut echo
Rogue is typically max cp -1 is good
5 or 6 is a good firing point but try not to overcap
rose berry
so worth hitting that envenom at 5 to not waste a muti
uncut echo
Yes
quasi pine
I’m talking about the buff
oh ok AA wasnt for Auto attacks after all 💀 I understand
rose berry
does the rotation for m+ single target change if you're not using bone spike, or do you just follow as normal, missing the spike out?
uncut echo
Normal, minus bone spike
rose berry
i sound like a dumbass sorry but just learning, and was not happy being out dps'd by another sin rogue in lower gear lol
uncut echo
Noo you are totally okay!
If you want, I can give you some pointers if you have logs?
rose berry
i think our tank accidently logs keys sometimes so i will check ty 🙂 I haven't logged any myself
uncut echo
No problem! My specialty is raid for sin
If you need help with ST in raid I gotchu
I have not run a single key as sin this season
quasi pine
I have not run a single key as sin this season
in sin or at all?
quasi pine
Tried outlaw one time a dungeon, catastrophic
quasi pine
last time I played outlaw for a patch it was in 8.0
uncut echo
quasi pine
It changed a lot
quasi pine
I had a 136k overall rlp the other day
sheeesh
that's good
And thx y'all for the answers btw
I'm still trying to push my dps for m+ atm :')
storm belfry
I had a 136k overall rlp the other day
uncut echo
<:huge:1055951289466503269>
Gm qt
storm belfry
Gm
My guild had killed raz last night. Thought these guys were gonna take a week off but they said I’m in for reclear next week @uncut echo now I’m randomly nervous
pure moth
I got to phase 2 last night. Prog
storm belfry
I got to phase 2 last night. Prog
You kill soon for sure
storm belfry
Congratz and good luck :3
I cannot take a congrats cause I didn’t get the kill (yet, hopefully) but now I’m off the bench. Gotta watch some kills past kurog cause that’s all I done. Plus I did them as healer so 
unborn geode
once my guild gets back into doing teh correct mechanics we mess around when we lust... we are starting to not burn it at the start because we don't get the effect of 2 anymore
uncut echo
I cannot take a congrats cause I didn’t get the kill (yet, hopefully) but now I’...
Killing it as sin?
storm belfry
Yeah I’ll be going in reclear as sin
May swap on raz idk
I’ll proabbaly be dead anyway
uncut echo
If you dont need intermission dmg
Do sin
Doulbe step for p1 is free
And you just crank boss
Adds have no hp now and a lot of people are ignoring smalls
And just nuking 2 big adds in i2
storm belfry
Well I gotta brush up knowledge on the fight and few others
unborn geode
i agree with Wannabe... if your intermission dmg is good and your not 100% needed for hte extra then the ST build is the best
uncut echo
I can go back to Ahri now lmao
uncut echo
unborn geode
ignoring the small adds on intermission 2 only works if you have mass entangle though
uncut echo
You should
storm belfry
Idk I just am nervous randomly since role swapping and since they killed it’s actually real now
uncut echo
I felt like an imbicile
I never died to winds, and last night we were getting 4 winds over 3
But tanks never spun boss on 4
So shadowstep fucking sent me off the edge LMAO
thorn fjord
Not using cloak for wind 4?
uncut echo
I was using fir 3
uncut echo
But the RL was like oh nooooo
thorn fjord
Theres been like 2 times where i step and get shot out of her ass
and fly off the platform lol
uncut echo
I got pked 2 times in p2
Run ovet and stepped on
And the second time we killed it :c
thorn fjord
we keep getting wrecked after the first mini add group in I2
thorn fjord
They die we move to stack for breath.. breath comes out then like 4 people die
pure moth
Thats what was happening last night pushback 4 the boss kept turning, the back was on edge so u couldnt shadowstep or you were thrown off
thorn fjord
Thats crazy dmg
uncut echo
Its so hard
thorn fjord
We're holding before push back 4 so not having those issues
pure moth
Ah
thorn fjord
she's at like 67%
then we wait for push back
and push her right before her breath
or a little after
pure moth
I just started this pattern shadowstep first, double shadowstep 2nd, shadow step and sprint 3rd and cloak 4th and it seemed fine
thorn fjord
Im stepping then W/sprint
pure moth
Yup
thorn fjord
Then Step Vanish SS Step Vanish SS then Cloak
Always leave cloak up for the last one to pair with SB
storm belfry
https://tenor.com/view/skillissue-skill-issue-gif-22125481
This will be my diagnosis when I send my logs in here next week
thorn fjord
I must say at like 250 pulls in the fight is still fun
velvet ridge
Don't y'all have a warlock gate to help out
uncut echo
Lock is lowkey mandatory
gaunt moat
And DK tank
thorn fjord
We do
We just need that sweet P3
I know she dies the second we make it there
Our ST is bonkers
spice spire
?
uncut echo
😭
thorn fjord
GM
quasi pine
Bruv the day I hate anyone they should put that on their resume
sounds like a challenge to me
quasi pine
Only 2 have succeeded
That isnt a lot yeah
thorn fjord
Only 2 have succeeded
Were either one of those 2 racist?
spice spire
Both actually
spice spire
I give chances, but some times people cba
thorn fjord
I stop at racism and bigotry
spice spire
Some people need perspective, and truly are a product of their upbringing. Firmly believe in making the world a better place, others are just balls of hatred
thorn fjord
Oddly enough you get alot more biggots in wow than racists now a days... out of the last 5 trials we had 2 of them were huge bigots
storm belfry
Gm say it back 
thorn fjord
Havent encountered a racist in mad long
spice spire
Bruv I was about to ping tryan so fast
uncut echo
Bro
spice spire
People being honest with who they are (even if we don’t understand them) is important, as long as consenting adults etc etc.
furries literally do nothing wrong man I can’t bully them
thorn fjord
I know its just a meme
cmoooooon
I HAVE NO HATRED TOWARDS ANYTHING BUT MOSQUITOS
fuck them things
spice spire
Nice west nile nerd
storm belfry
I’ve raided w a few furries
thorn fjord
They raid in costume?
storm belfry
Idk man
They play worgen
I agree w quake tho. But tbh I am not down for the bronies
storm belfry
They are way too extreme
thorn fjord
He likes to speed run OG RE2 alot
storm belfry
At least the majority
Or vocal minority
And I mean what bobs burgers did on that episode on bronies
thorn fjord
But yeah a bunch of My little pony posters all over his walls
storm belfry
That’s actually what they are most the time
Do you. Whatever makes you happy. Just don’t be weird w kids. All ima say
spice spire
Just accept people for who they are unless they’re a Jax main if you catch that drift
storm belfry
We are all human
Idk makes it worse when they have a weird fetish tho
Who is Jax
Is that a league reference
thorn fjord
Black dude with no arms in MK
spice spire
No it’s league related
storm belfry
Idk anyone else
spice spire
Ongoing meme about jax/top mains - and it’s definitely a joke. But the referenced thing
Is one of thethings I deem unacceptable
uncut echo
Top main uwu
storm belfry
Speaking of fighting games. I cannot wait for Tekken 8
spice spire
Banned @uncut echo
thorn fjord
Tekken 8 looks sexy af
storm belfry
It does
thorn fjord
BUT sf 6 is looking saucy
storm belfry
I haven’t really played the game seriously since 5 or 6
storm belfry
I never got into street fighter
thorn fjord
Going to CEO
storm belfry
Tho I do love the art style
thorn fjord
First major for SF6 ever
storm belfry
I enjoy KI and Tekken
I did want to play that one anime fighting game that got big. But I never bought it
thorn fjord
we capcucks out her
thorn fjord
I did want to play that one anime fighting game that got big. But I never bought...
GG?
storm belfry
Game looked crisp
storm belfry
Damn bro
I should get one of those
I really want to get a laptop tho
I enjoy hearthstone at work but I could really just farm gold in WoW
At work
thorn fjord
If your pc is up to snuff you could just use chrome remote desktop
and remote in to your PC to farm herbs and stuff
Steam deck was an amazing purchase tho NGL
storm belfry
Like my pc or the work one
thorn fjord
been playing RE4 remake on it
storm belfry
Mine is fine. I’ve done the remote off my phone and opened vaults
The work one kinda bad
thorn fjord
You remote in to your home PC from your work PC using chrome
Runs via extension so you dont need to install anything else
quasi pine
Wait, another question, why do a lot of people take cheatdeath and not elusiveness? (in M+ in mean sorry if the question looks dumb)
astral gazelle
for me it's just because cheat is way easier and i have enough going on to pay attention to (also it works even if i'm out of energy)
uncut echo
Bc in low keys cheat is comfy
storm belfry
^
uncut echo
25+ you need elusiveness
storm belfry
I’ve only really ever seen elusiveness played on super high NO
uncut echo
And RLP
astral gazelle
(yeah I can only speak up to like 21s)
storm belfry
Yeah ruby def one too
quasi pine
25+ you need elusiveness
I use elusiveness all day long, but i'm seeing people like zerocool with cheatdeath
I do not understand
ashen warren
Can also just bum externals off your healer for NO
astral gazelle
just only get targeted by one flame spit 
storm belfry
I use elusiveness all day long, but i'm seeing people like zerocool with cheatde...
Zero has used elusiveness on NO
Think on tyran tho
astral gazelle
what kills you on NO? gale arrow?
quasi pine
Zero has used elusiveness on NO
yeah but only on NO and some things but idk feels like on the ring on RLP it's pretty cool to have vs elementals
quasi pine
Arrow strong
os me without elusiveness atm 
storm belfry
Yeah I don’t disagree with you
I’ve only done up to 23s so far and I just have never swapped yet
quasi pine
were on a 24 NO this arrow is really mean
Atm need a bit more ilvl I think to be comfortable
quasi pine
Did you tell it’s parents?
I did, they didnt care 
storm belfry
restive kestrel
wheres classic rogue stuff
storm belfry
spice spire
^
thorn fjord
versed canopy
still no rogue changes...
uncut echo
Nope, we got 3 weeks
Stay strong
We'll get a numerical pass in heroic at the worst, we're fine.
grim jay
spice spire
brazen zodiac
don't worry
if you're aiming like that you aint hitting shit
the swirls' on the ground will do the job for u
thorn fjord
Nah you aint gangsta if you cant shoot like that
you gotta yell BREAK YOSELF each time you pull the trigger for it to work tho
brazen zodiac
💃
eager solstice
you guys saving your cds for shields or using them on 1st intermission? If i use cds on first intermission, its not up for first shield, so i'd have to hold it for second
thorn fjord
For i1 I’m saving torch for second pack and sending Sb on third pack
spice spire
Yeah that’s all I was saying.
It was skip i1, blast shield 1, blast shield three, potentially do an early Exsang on one of the i2 adds, then send and pray for a final lineup
I literally read png’s assessment when they first killed
So I’m pulling this from that, lot has changed since then
unborn geode
i used cd's phase 1, skip i1, DM shield1, exsang shield 2, DM shield 3, skip i2 and the turn and burn on phase 3
eager solstice
i used cd's phase 1, skip i1, DM shield1, exsang shield 2, DM shield 3, skip i2 ...
Makes sense. adds dying ok in i2 w/o your cds tho?
woeful meteor
desyncing exsang and dm like that seems like big dps loss
woeful meteor
Makes sense. adds dying ok in i2 w/o your cds tho?
everything just insta dies post nerf
unborn geode
shields are priority so its adding to the dps when needed and i2 we have zero issues with my cd's not aligning for it
woeful meteor
you can 1tp kill that phase now
spice spire
desyncing exsang and dm like that seems like big dps loss
Naturally you want to get through shield 3, but Exsang won’t be up then. If it’s living long enough (which should be assumed for prog) it’ll be at least 6 minutes post shield one yeah?
Post start of shield one I should say
gusty mirage
So you wouldn’t use cds in intermission <a:mern:1086280529034362981>
on CD
unborn geode
i2 is dependent on the short and fast CD"s... we typically kill first set of little adds, root the 2nd set and by 3rd tp they are dead or at like 3% and dying
spice spire
Yeah that’s what I mean.
Dm kinda 
gusty mirage
I mean tbh
playing assassination on rasz is weird
esp now so more than before
you wipe if you fuck up intermission now
lack of boss damage isn't a thing
woeful meteor
idk I used everything on pull, everything on first shield, mark on 3 and then have everything in p3 nothing in intermissions
eager solstice
do you have logs tamaran that i can take a look at?
spice spire
Then I feel you’re missing casts. Which again, given you’re wr100ish (iirc) wouldn’t be a thing, prog POV bit diff innit
woeful meteor
would have done the same for prog tho
unborn geode
idk I used everything on pull, everything on first shield, mark on 3 and then ha...
the only difference i do is move exsang from shield 1 to shield 2 because shield 2 is always the longest shield to come down
unborn geode
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YK94CfZLxayATMmN#fight=last
heres my logs doing that at a ilvl 401 i believe i was at
spice spire
Oh heroic and mythic are very different my friend
eager solstice
the only difference i do is move exsang from shield 1 to shield 2 because shield...
Makes sense, aoe is being filled by other classes. We're there for ST during crucial points, that's how current assa is played
gusty mirage
idk I used everything on pull, everything on first shield, mark on 3 and then ha...
yeah sin using CDs in intermission is just meh
ig unless you're super struggling to kill the heralds
but then you're just fucked
in p2
woeful meteor
Then I feel you’re missing casts. Which again, given you’re wr100ish (iirc) woul...
since I never rly considered sin for prog I didnt think much about it and just sending was just the easiest for farm
spice spire
That’s why I’m going over what was originally said, I haven’t done it and frauds whispyr and oxi went sub
(Because it was best for the team)
woeful meteor
sin on rasz died with kingsbane for me 😢
spice spire
It died for everyone there
gusty mirage
playing sub instead of forcing your RL to strategize around you playing sin makes you a fraud now apparently
spice spire
Then boss damage not needed as well
unborn geode
Makes sense, aoe is being filled by other classes. We're there for ST during cru...
Yea... i'm typically the ST burner... play sin rogue and affliction lock
spice spire
Kinda means
thorn fjord
Spoiler alert Sub ST burner now tooo
gusty mirage
sub is just the better spec for rasz
assassination and outlaw rogues need to get over it
uncut echo
Raz on mythic is a completely different fight
uncut echo
Nah, oxi is right
spice spire
What’s the point of playing sin at all (tho now that’s sin at all)
uncut echo
There isnt
gusty mirage
unless you like it
spice spire
O
gusty mirage
idk
spice spire
Still gonna call you frauds 
gusty mirage
doesn't even feel bad anymore
unborn geode
i argee with that assessment of the current situation however i will stick to Sin because its just my home on the rogue
storm forum
I have a medical condition that prevents me from playing specs without at least 2 maintenance DoTs
spice spire
Nah what’s actually gonna feel bad
vestal wren
assassination and outlaw rogues need to get over it
new raid looks single target heavy, so that should already shift things in the raid mta
uncut echo
new raid looks single target heavy, so that should already shift things in the r...
It wont
Without tuning
gusty mirage
i argee with that assessment of the current situation however i will stick to Si...
yeah if you're more comfortable on sin, send it. It's not that much of a hassle to play around it, plus the latest HP nerf to intermission adds makes it less important
unborn geode
Is playing sub next tier
is the new sin that weird or is the sub that strong
spice spire
Sub’s tier set is very poor in my opinion
uncut echo
We mean sin from cataclysm
spice spire
New sin set is okay-ish.
uncut echo
Sub’s tier set is very poor in my opinion
Damage profile flatter than the earth fr
eager solstice
sub is just the better spec for rasz
Bro no one is saying it's not. This is an assa sub and we're discussing assa on this fight
spice spire
We mean sin from cataclysm
Nah sin from cata was diff
We on that sim from legion grustle tho
vague widget
If sin stays in a troubled place I'll refine sub in the interim but sin is a much more comfy spec to me as well. Aka give it back blizz.
spice spire
It’ll be fine homies.
Have faith (I’m dead to the world)
thorn fjord
OL angle tbh
vague widget
Pirate has never been fun for me. I'm glad people like it, I wouldn't miss it if deleted.
grim jay
I legitimately cant play something I dont like the theme of
unborn geode
I honestly wouldn't mind if they make sin more st focused and reduce the aoe, make outlaw more aoe focused and then make sub a nice middle group
grim jay
and OL killed combat, which was kinda decent
spice spire
Combat died to me on death wing
grim jay
I honestly wouldn't mind if they make sin more st focused and reduce the aoe, ma...
could they even reduce the aoe further?
storm forum
could they even reduce the aoe further? <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
Replace CT with Rend
unborn geode
could they even reduce the aoe further? <:kekdog:907207037757296710>
thats true... its pretty harsh... but if the pull is big enough 5+ you can do okay dps for aoe... anything less you suffer
you also need the right spec
grim jay
thats true... its pretty harsh... but if the pull is big enough 5+ you can do ok...
I mean, aside from ct
everything you do in aoe
is using ST stuff
unborn geode
FoKs for CP into CT while maintaining Rupture/Garrote with IC i do okay
vague widget
Envenom could just hit all bleeding targets at partial damage. No gain on st, more bombs in multi. But I'm just spitballing a terrible idea that would get sin nerfed. I trust it will be adjusted sometime.
unborn geode
Envenom could just hit all bleeding targets at partial damage. No gain on st, m...
that would be and interesting skill interaction
storm forum
no, mutilate hits all bleeding targets in AoE to apply the doomblade DoT
royal lantern
no, *mutilate* hits all bleeding targets in AoE to apply the doomblade DoT
oh wow, 40dmg
unborn geode
I"m questioning:
(4) Set Bonus: When Deathmark expires, Nature damage you deal is increased by 40% for 30 seconds.
is this meant to buff our poison dmg we deal... meaning we will time ER with RC for after DM now?
gusty mirage
Bro no one is saying it's not. This is an assa sub and we're discussing assa on ...
Appreciate you butting into the conversation late, but I was called a fraud by a friend as a joke and was addressing it
Thanks for your two cents though
gusty mirage
I"m questioning:
(4) Set Bonus: When Deathmark expires, Nature damage you deal ...
yeah it's like a shiv after DM expires, works well with buffing the 2pc bonus to rupture as well
thorn fjord
A true friend would never call you a fraud
gusty mirage
A true friend would never call you a fraud
he's from tennessee, they're wild down there
thorn fjord
Silly ole tennerseeans
unborn geode
So our whole opener and priority is going to change... fun
thorn fjord
I dont see it changing that much at the start
Biggest change would be if we dont take shrouded for some reason
strange python
-sorry- does CT have CD?
gusty mirage
no
thorn fjord
and PB will be going away
gusty mirage
it's a finisher like envenom & rupture
thorn fjord
I kinda hope our new build doesnt include shrouded but im not getting my hopes up
gusty mirage
why would you not want it to include shrouded
thorn fjord
Not the biggest fan of how you play around it... the double garrote stuff on opener makes me uncomfortable
gusty mirage
thorn fjord
double shiv maybe? 
gusty mirage
thorn fjord
or mini toxic blade would be cool
But yeah pretty sure SS aint going anywhere
Which is fine
deft flicker
Isn’t shrouded also 2 free cp from stealth garrote??
Not having those would make early rupture/snd very awkward
thorn fjord
We didnt play SS till we got 4p anyway and prior to that it wasnt awful
autumn frost
Why does deathmark sometimes give +2 combo points
gusty mirage
cause it duplicates the shrouded suff garrote
and the game is like
oh here's another 2cp
thorn fjord
Merry birthday
autumn frost
But not all the time
gusty mirage
small indie company
thorn fjord
Yeah you gotta do it quick
gusty mirage
just like playing subterfuge & imp garrote was giving you 4 empowered garrotes
instead of 3
🍝
thorn fjord
And being able to stay in stealth and not activate subterfuge when pre pulling with PB
gusty mirage
idk if they ever fixed that
gusty mirage
And being able to stay in stealth and not activate subterfuge when pre pulling w...
ya that's been there for a while tho
could mount up fully stealthed w/ subterfuge
wouldn't break stealth until you were already on the mount
storm forum
whats happening in an hour?
spice spire
LOGIN
storm forum
o no new poe
grim jay
wonder if I'm the only one that never has played PoE
gusty mirage
and oxi can not play a bow build again
WHY MUST YOU HURT ME LIKE THIS
royal lantern
WHY MUST YOU HURT ME LIKE THIS
we assassination players suffer togheter
storm forum
I've never played PoE
gusty mirage
we assassination players suffer togheter
I'm playing SST Raider in hopes that someone juices up a cooked Ice shot build
easiest pivot of my life
storm forum
I just know it as the game that makes my friends lists go grey
for a week or two ish
gusty mirage
grim jay
I for some reason just watched videos and thought of it like diablo, playing it a couple of weeks every now and then and getting back to main game after that
so I just stuck to diablo at the time
thorn fjord
I’ve never played poe… gonna try this league out for funsies
subtle tundra
I’ve never played poe… gonna try this league out for funsies
read a guide
royal lantern
and still have no fun
cus poe is the most stupid overcomplicated game in the world
be ready for obvious things like "increased dmg and more dmg are 2 totally different things"
marble hemlock
https://tenor.com/view/abell46s-reface-bebe-on-ta-bebe-chucky-gif-18770856
thats what i imagine the typical OL player looks like
vague widget
I laughed more than I should have. I forgot the image until I clicked the message.
storm belfry
I’ve never played poe… gonna try this league out for funsies
I’ve attempted twice. Never liked it each time. Hopefully different for you
gusty mirage
thats what i imagine the typical OL player looks like
that's actually a video of me
wtf
marble hemlock
so you look like a typical OL player
royal lantern
the O in oxi stands for outlaw
grim jay
the O in oxi stands for outlaw
same as the o in goonies
vague widget
As long as there is no truffle shuffle going on.
versed mica
Guys I had a dream last night that kingsbane was moved back to where it was on the talent tree
Real, right?
uncut echo
Uh huh
scenic sky
Only if that were true
echo heath
I had a dream that people stopped trying to give rework suggestions in here
runic hinge
Now that’s just crazy
thorn fjord
I had a dream about mommy milkers
storm forum
Mam, y'all have way better dreams than me.
thorn fjord
Jk i havent had a dream i can remember in years
round swift
Not gonna give any rework discussion…. But evokers cried for like 3 weeks and got almost their dream tree…. How long has the sin community been down about aoe?
uncut echo
I had a dream about mommy milkers
strange python
For me, bfa sin rogue was peak sin rogue
oak sky
uncut echo
You mean
The version if sin that wasnt like sin at all?
The crack riddled fever dream of the spec?
uncut echo
I like this version of sin as well
gray crest
with the tier set
uncut echo
Argus sin was clean
I played shadow for mythic antorus
But the sin rogue was nuts with it
gray crest
argus was my first mythic raid
uncut echo
Mine too!
gray crest
i was in heroic titan forged gear progging argus and popping off
theres a video of it somewhere
uncut echo
BIG
I had a 6x titanforged 910 base arcano :3
It was 940 ilvl on my priest
I actually won the lottery
Thats an emote
In my server
Commemorating it
balmy condor
arcano lottery was not it
gray crest
found the video
uncut echo
Idk you should've won it
gray crest
i missed that raid team
uncut echo
arcano lottery was not it
Secondaries scalling that hard was not it
balmy condor
Secondaries scalling that hard was not it
oak sky
for me 11.0 sin rogue was peak sin rogue
uncut echo
Andrew stop dooming
gray crest
I think I miss HFC sub the most
gray crest
even though it had an assassination feeling mechanic with advancing bleeds
balmy condor
hfc sub was more sin than current sin
oak sky
give me hfc subsin
gray crest
I heard wod sub was the stuff of legends
I would rip agro off raid bosses all the fucking time
wary ice
What if we just combine sub and sin
oak sky
i love sinister calling (i am a shadowlands baby)
wary ice
And get a new 3rd spec
uncut echo
And get a new 3rd spec
Van helsing demon hunter type beat
oak sky
whats the idea of hemo
gray crest
I literally had to save tricks for like 10 seconds into the pull
balmy condor
whats the idea of hemo
bleed = bigger
gray crest
its another bleed and increases damage i think
oak sky
so you just maintain it between muts
gray crest
got i was in fucking highschool
oak sky
or something
uncut echo
Ye its just bleed is bigger
uncut echo
got i was in fucking highschool
Same bro 
vivid seal
hey guys in aoe an i dumping my cp on envenoms after I do my opener and CT?
or do I just spam ct
uncut echo
Both are fine
uncut echo
And equal dps
vivid seal
ah kk
uncut echo
Good logic is if the pack is moving use ct more
uncut echo
Only enough to get enough energy to spam
uncut echo
Usually around 5 or 6
oak sky
ic is 8 
uncut echo
Ic is infinite energy
oak sky
yepge
uncut echo
He asked outside of IC
uncut echo
No
oak sky
He asked outside of IC
that basically doesnt exist
vivid seal
nah like after
uncut echo
Oh, I miunderstood
vivid seal
after the ic ruptures wear off
uncut echo
Ok I didnt misunderstand
vivid seal
is it worth spreading it on every target until i get ic back?
vivid seal
cool
uncut echo
Enough to maintain energy to do your aoe rotation
gray crest
I need professional help figuring out the block palette for my minecraft house
uncut echo
I need professional help figuring out the block palette for my minecraft house
Drop that shit in here rfn
gray crest
its modded, I either want to use this dark orange wood framing/ with birch walls or spruce framing with birch walls
vivid seal
so basically if im not struggling with energy in aoe i dont have to spread it to a lot of targets?
wary ice
Spurce birch is higher dps
uncut echo
That is correct
gray crest
man i cant strip these logs manually
misty kernel
ASSA DREAM LIVES GUYS !
silk bane
my boi livignt he assa dream for all of us!
brazen zodiac
c:
ebon notch
<@124465215826821120> thats for u ❤️
vapid sierra
how do i maintain
my damage
after dm falls off
obviously its gonna go down
but how do i slow that down
thorn fjord
Scream rng lord and hope for procs
thorn fjord
Make sure bleeds aren’t falling off
thorn fjord
Poison bomb procs
vapid sierra
ahh
weak plover
The min max is in RNG. Good luck
thorn fjord
You’ll get nice burst windows with DM/Exsang
It’s ok I progged brood as sin you’ll do fine
Also I too would like DB to be a thing again 😩
vapid sierra
lmaoo
my time on sin was short
i need to go back to outlaw tho
need more add damage
got three sin pulls
one of which i had outlaw weaposn on
thorn fjord
If you guys need both boss and add dmg and they have you swapping early on you could totally play sub
thorn fjord
It’s actually fun in raid
vapid sierra
It’s actually fun in raid
i also lack the mastery for sub
and sin tbh
i think i have 30 on sin and 50 on sub?
minor gate
Even the mods agree
vapid sierra
how much of a dps difference do elemental potions of ulti power make on opener?
or %
minor gate
Well the amount of a prime stat it give on lowest quality it’s around the max quality of a normal pot
winged quail
Another round of balance changes, another round of no rogue
minor gate
vapid sierra
Another round of balance changes, another round of no rogue <:starege:9231972720...
blizz fr hates us
survival punching the air rn
winged quail
Fire mage blasted in MDI so it must be good 
burnt latch
U play rogue and mage, and your initial thought is blizzard hates those two classes
winged quail
Mage is the protagonist no way they don't get buffs
vapid sierra
rotation it scuks
vapid sierra
U play rogue and mage, and your initial thought is blizzard hates those two clas...
i was being sarcastic
to some extent
we dont have the f mage treatment
but outlaw hasnt undergone rotational changes in a long ass time
and f mage is kinda mess
and gets worse with its next tier set
burnt latch
but outlaw hasnt undergone rotational changes in a long ass time
Its undergone quite a few rotational changes tbf
vapid sierra
all we got was auda procs
and they killed our only other buil;d
kir
kir seems to do good with new tier tho
so its gonna be a nice change
winged quail
Best ST build next patch is gonna be HO, Ghostly and tea
burnt latch
If you think outlaw hasnt changed drastically in how it plays u didnt play outlaw in 9.0
winged quail
Unless something changes
balmy condor
We get it, the wowhead balancing doesn’t have rogue notes. This is a channel to discuss Assassination, not the lack thereof :) keep the dooming to a minimum
Edit <t:1680920580:R>:
The dooming got worse, we're up to 5 min slowmode. Please Stop. Everyone has seen this a million times by now. We get it, you want changes, we all do. Sitting in here and dooming just brings down the entire vibe and isn't productive. Eat an apple, smell the roses, it's a wonderful spring day for most of the world :)
Edit 2 <t:1680924720:R>:
Back down to a minute, thanks for keeping the negativity away
Edit 3 <t:1680953400:R>:
Slowmode off for now, I'll see you guys next time wowhead posts literally anything at all :)
winged quail
All I'm saying is with proper tuning Sin would own next tier
burnt latch
Wouldnt that argument work for every single class tho
winged quail
Not necessarily
burnt latch
How come
winged quail
Fight profiles fit Sin really well
Mainly ST with some extended cleave
Sin shines in those scenarios
vapid sierra
All I'm saying is with proper tuning Sin would own next tier
im gonna main sin next tier
spice spire
We get it, the wowhead balancing doesn’t have rogue notes. This is a channel to ...
U right
burnt latch
And with proper tuning ww would own next tier. If they tune its ST and extended cleave correctly
thorn fjord
Gm
spice spire
Gm
vapid sierra
Mainly ST with some extended cleave
extended cleave as in long living adds like kurog?
burnt latch
Same with devastation evoker
spice spire
And with proper tuning ww would own next tier. If they tune its ST and extended ...
So real bestie
burnt latch
Same with unholy dk