assassination

[night delta]

No freaking way

[marble hemlock]

more like

feral/monk

[night delta]

Are you shitting me

[regal sable]

thoughts on exsang?

[sudden canyon]

2pc: using shiv with atrophic poison grants the rogue and all party members a 7second execute window in targets affected by shiv.

[balmy condor]

Outlaw can do a bajillion fucking dps Idc if Assassination is the worst spec in the game i don’t want this tier bonus

[oak sky]

its just survival getting the special weapon

[balmy condor]

I’ll trade being tank damage to not have to play this

[marble hemlock]

yeah

idk if people are actually this dense

or simply dont know that marksman/bm arent using polearms to shoot at enemies

[oak sky]

the special weapon goes on like 4 specs or something

maybe 5?

[marble hemlock]

ww, brew, feral, sv

[oak sky]

guardian?

or no?

[marble hemlock]

whats that?

[oak sky]

true

[marble hemlock]

first boss in sepulcher?

[keen spruce]

throwing polearm

[oak sky]

lmaoooo

[marble hemlock]

nah i actually just forgot about guardian. then again, so did blizzard, so thats still fair imo

[gaunt moat]

Must be nice to have a special weapon every tier

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/throw-angry-javelin-throw-javelin-track-and-field-gif-15955009

[night delta]

I mean yeah, no shit, that still makes it two in a row for the class

[marble hemlock]

it really really doesnt

[velvet ridge]

Throwing polearm class would be so cooool, like zuljin in heroes of the storm

[sudden canyon]

i hope we dont see another fancy dagger. i got trauma from sylv dagger.

unless we get a targeted loot system

[regal sable]

im here for the sims telling us to sepsis after deathmark

[night delta]

I want the fancy dagger to drop on a mid-raid boss

[nocturne current]

4-set, pull big...

Bottled Putrescence

[night delta]

So i can taste it in MM flavour T_T

[keen spruce]

dw we get a very rare vers cloak

[marble hemlock]

a special polearm is actually one of the best choices for a special weapon

arguably THE best

[velvet ridge]

Our bis dagger rn is last boss drop isn't it? Same thing really, cucked

[night delta]

Yeah

[marble hemlock]

because it is for classes that havent had anything special in the last few tiers, while everybody else did

with the exception of holy paladins ig

[night delta]

The other dagger is freakin terros

Low ilvl garbo

[nocturne current]

So I guess we get 40% more damage on the poison bomb potion also with 4set?

[oak sky]

im actually surprised theres no dagger tho

for a black dragonflight tier

[night delta]

4p is badically envenomland

[regal sable]

pre-deathmark the critter at start of dungeon to proc 4p in aoe pull

[night delta]

Not ultra exciting tbh

[regal sable]

[balmy condor]

It’s ridiculously strong

It’s just

[sudden canyon]

yea but if its just an ilvl upgrade it doesnt feel as bad to have one thats down a couple ilvl, vs not having the effect thats adding 2% dmg just byitself

[balmy condor]

A dumb fucking bonus

[marble hemlock]

theyre just waiting for the big reveal that owners of the fangs of the father can upgrade them to receive a legendary dragonflight weapon

[oak sky]

i would unalive

[marble hemlock]

and then next tier

[balmy condor]

Like tier set number high

But tier set design bad

[oak sky]

everyone will love that

[marble hemlock]

casters with tarecgosa can upgrade theirs cuz we fight the frost blady with the blue dragonflight, obviously

[nocturne current]

So bottled putrescence just became 134k * number of targets. Kek

[sudden canyon]

yea with AP too.

[regal sable]

[sudden canyon]

lol

[oak sky]

so when are they bringing atiesh back

[night delta]

NO

cuz they'd have to off Khadgar for that

Fuck that

[oak sky]

idk the context

i know nothing about vanilla

i was just making a funny weapon joke

[velvet ridge]

Hey does nature dmg outside our class work with our current nature dmg bonuses? Like for trinkets

[night delta]

Khadgar is current canon wielder of Atiesh

[marble hemlock]

no

[night delta]

Nope, it's sanitized

[marble hemlock]

our nature or bleed damage bonuses, only work with nature damage or bleed damage that belong to our class kit

[velvet ridge]

Oh :(

[night delta]

At that point the elemental school damage on items is purely fluff

[versed mica]

I love how demo lock mastery buffs non warlock pets like ruby shell trink

[nocturne current]

Damn you destroying my dream of AP + Shiv + 4 set throwing pots around

[versed mica]

But rogues op tho

[gaunt moat]

Would we even need to desync KB from DM?
Maybe I'm missing something.
DM is 100% more damage on KB. 4p bonus only 40% more damage.

[night delta]

Yeah no point in desyncing KB and DM

Only if it had a big burst right at the end like sepsis, we'd want to let it finish just barely after DM

And it doesn't so...

[gaunt moat]

And then in terms of numbers, I wanna see how much those 16 seconds of extra 40% nature damage are actually good. cause we we don't really have burst poison damage

[night delta]

30s

[gaunt moat]

30 sorry

[night delta]

Starts only when DM ends

Which is the insult honestly

[velvet ridge]

Even thematically, like wtf. Death mark, imma kill this man real quick, omega bleed.
Oh here's this affect when you failed to kill your target you do more damage now, why am I self buffing with an ability named death mark

[regal sable]

vendetta on choice node with dm when?

[thorn fjord]

So it’s essentially a mini vend after dm drops?

[night delta]

4p : deathmark lasts 2 more seconds, and buffs nature dmg by 40%

[gaunt moat]

I'm starting to move to the "there's gotta be changes coming" camp.
Cause seriously, there's no way this is what they intend for assassination. It just can't be real.

[night delta]

There you go, I found a version that would actually make freaking sense, in 20s

[nocturne current]

4 set is only there for that Hunter that thought he survived Deathmark in Arathi Basin to actually die 10 seconds after.

[devout drift]

tier set bonus is just bandaid for sin AoE

[balmy condor]

The 4 set is a 40% buff to every other kingsbane at least ||if the buff lasted lasted longer||

[dusky maple]

anyone running assassination atm? that does good keys

[nocturne current]

Deathmark bait cooldowns

[regal sable]

deathmark bait cooldowns into random er envenom for 70% hp

[nocturne current]

Define good keys

[regal sable]

hehe

[night delta]

Oh maybe they can have the buff trigger 45s after deathmark ends !

[dusky maple]

like a +20

[gaunt moat]

What will the 40% after DM even buff?
rupture and envenom?
but, well, you don't always get to sit on boss for 30s after you did your burst, because fight mechanics.
it's just.. it's just bad.

[teal bloom]

I guess the 4 set can make deathmark more useful in mythic+ outside bosses/big trash but it's so awkward

[night delta]

Actual genius

[nocturne current]

yes

[regal sable]

ye

[tacit otter]

ye

[dusky maple]

damn. respect

whats ur highests

[keen spruce]

like 40% of our dmg right now is nature in ST and it will stack with the 2p. It looks like big damage, just ass cheeck design

[regal sable]

3 bowls

[nocturne current]

Highest potential or highest actual

[dusky maple]

LOL

highest actual, i wanna go back to assassination even tho everyones like GO SUB.

and trying to get some info

[balmy condor]

Plenty of people do their weekly 20’s for vault on Assassination for a change of pace

[nocturne current]

I mean.. I'm pugging 23's but I guess I could potentially push 24 with organized group

[balmy condor]

And then they see outlaw and sub and go “wait a minute”

[tacit otter]

im doing 22/23 as sin, swapping to outlaw for weeklies lol

[tacit otter]

ye same

[dusky maple]

i wish i could try outlaw but blizzard out here not wanting to let me have a 1H for it

[teal bloom]

I just did a 47 minute RLP+19

[velvet ridge]

Ive stopped pushing, but I tend to go 21/22s for vault. AA nok and ruby are my favorites

[misty holly]

I'm pretty sure doing 23's as Sin puts you at top 10 in the world lol

[keen spruce]

4x +20 sbgs a week for me

[nocturne current]

Next week hopefully

[keen spruce]

0% failure rate

ez invites at 2800

[nocturne current]

But then again top 10 sin is like... top 1000 rogue

[velvet ridge]

Ew I hate sbg as sin, except omega padding the last boss lul

[keen spruce]

oh i just do em on pirate

play bad, do okay damage, play good, do okay damage

bad rng, do okay damage, good rng, do pretty good damage

brain off payphone keys

[gaunt moat]

Yeah you're right. I also mean the design.
I meant to say we want our burst to be consolidated. because a lingering buff is harder to control. and by that i mean, we can't always stay on target to take full affect.

[velvet ridge]

I actually spec out of iron wire in sbg

[nocturne current]

I've been slacking too much in tyrannical, I think I can fetch some 100 points next week

[digital folio]

Why would you not take silence in sbg ? It s op on the caster packs

[keen spruce]

i technically still need a +20 tyran rlp but i cannot be fucked to go in there

oh and an AA

man we slackin

[velvet ridge]

Ruby is my top 2, love it

[spice spire]

AA kek

[keen spruce]

it's pretty cozy after those nerfs a while back

but i just don't leave sbg

the 0% failure chance

[nocturne current]

But, I do feel some substantial drop from forti to tyran, but oh well, it is what it is.

[keen spruce]

is too comfy

[nocturne current]

Spec's a little bit off-sided towards AoE and ain't much options to spec around it sadly

[digital folio]

Single target is lacking, but I run the shiv talents and if you line up execute, box, exsang, DM and 2 charges of shiv you catch up on bosses

[nocturne current]

Yeah ahah, that's literally the changes I do

Ah sorry. I misread

I don't run AP, but I do swap for Shiv.

And Boon to Box.

[gaunt moat]

Outlaw brain:

[nocturne current]

IC + DTB's amazing but in Tyrannical, IC feels like a burden it's so f useless on bosses.

[feral mason]

Wowhead comments

[digital folio]

It s raging week you should try AP, it actually feels sweet

[nocturne current]

Oh, the thing is that, there's not really anything you want to remove from enraging tho.

Usually having just the 2 shivs seems to be enough

[sudden canyon]

i like AP + IC, but like ive said. its boss dmg feels alot shittier though, and it still has the problem of you only press CT in aoe, and you dont get to use poison bomb either so you cant make use of the aoe shiv outside of just ur weapon poisons and the passive bleeds you have ticking.

[balmy condor]

Outlaw is easily the best one

[nocturne current]

Then you just disenrage a dude or two and the CC another one or someone else takes the other enrage and by the time shiv's back the pack's dead. IC's just too much damage to give away

[misty holly]

That's why you go AP/IC

[feral mason]

As an outlaw player I can indeed confirm my brain has been a good sumaritan by donating all of its braincells to charity

[gaunt moat]

They deal 5% more damage. then deal 200% of that, and get agi buff with BtE.
"trash".

[nocturne current]

Yeah but then you dont do anything in bosses

[tacit otter]

10% st loss on tyr, no thank you haha

[digital folio]

You do, you just gotta line up CDs properly

[nocturne current]

In m+ you don't want to be lining stuff tho :p

It's more like a use-fest.

[whole mason]

outlaw gets a soul capacitor

[tacit otter]

with kb back then okey, i also held exsang for execute. but no way with ap

[nocturne current]

Idk, I never tried AP so I can't really tell, just imagining.

[gaunt moat]

If you take AP in m+ say goodbye to ST

[velvet ridge]

Id never take ap over ic, so I ain't ever taking it

[nocturne current]

Yeah that's the thing the ST from DTB's just a tad too strong overall in comparisson to the AoE gain and then.. DTB/IC is just too strong in AoE to do change anything in ST.

It's bit messy.

[sudden canyon]

yall should try AP just so that you can propperly shit talk it

[nocturne current]

Zoldyk just can't make up for it in ST compared to the AoE loss in m+

[gaunt moat]

Yes. and then taking IC/AP leaves you with no ST.

[tacit otter]

i did, and its absolute dogshit

[nocturne current]

I tried doing Court without IC in Tyrannical over Zoldyk and it still sucked over IC

[cedar silo]

is the new tier set any good

it looks very bad tbh

[gaunt moat]

It's just that they couldn't find a worse node position to place AP in our tree.

[velvet ridge]

If sin had some sort of restless blades mechanic like the other 2 specs

[gaunt moat]

we don't have numbers, but design-wise: awful.

[digital folio]

I mean maybe I'm doing smth wrong, but I feel the dbt/ic build feels kinda meeh in aoe, and meeh in St

[sudden canyon]

no thats about right

[nocturne current]

IC/DTB is amazing in AoE, meh in ST but AoE's definitely a powerhouse. Just not if you're pulling overcap.

[velvet ridge]

Dbt ic, I'm competing with other classes easy in aoe pulls in 21 22s

[tacit otter]

dtb/ic on big pulls is more than fine and way more versatile across everything that happens in a key

[storm belfry]

build has good aoe, lacks ST

[peak saffron]

any tips for add phases on raz

[devout drift]

cant complete with sub and outlaw in M+

[digital folio]

So at least with the other one I just enjoy having my CDs line up in execute on bosses, be at 40k DPS for 60% of the fight and catch up back to 55-60k at the end

[peak saffron]

feel like im just flailing around

[devout drift]

or AoE

[nocturne current]

But if you're staying within cap. I mean, you do pretty much the same as any class. I go hand-in-hand with sub rogues, just start losing if pack's weird synced with IC or if it's overcap.

[gaunt moat]

@digital folio dtb/ic does well on big pulls (not AS well as something like fury, but well)
it even does decent AoE on pull, problem is the conditions:

• stealth
• 45 second cooldown

[tacit otter]

you'll do 60-70k over the whole fight playing dtb/ic like what

[balmy condor]

Play sub

[peak saffron]

cmon man

[cedar silo]

^

[balmy condor]

No I’m dead serious

[devout drift]

sub and outlaw dont need to stealth

[balmy condor]

That’s what I did

[cedar silo]

thats also what i did

subs really good for raz

[peak saffron]

any assassination tips for doing damage in add phases on raz : )

[balmy condor]

Does the same single target and my intermission dps went from 55k to 120k

[balmy condor]

Spam envenom and pray to the god you believe in that your poison bomb hits something :)

[sudden canyon]

the 45sec burst is real good, but i wouldnt say DTB+IC is amazing in aoe, its competitive fs.

[whole mason]

what does infinite mean?

[cedar silo]

will sepsis be an option

with new tier

[digital folio]

I mean if I end the fight with 55-60k it s about the same, juste the start is slow, you catch up on DPS later

[gaunt moat]

They have buffs that stack more and more.

[tacit otter]

if you do constant 60k over the whole fight, its more overall dmg to that boss than doing 40k 60% of the fight and then 60k for 40% of the fight? its way worse

[nocturne current]

And then another thing people seem to forget with Assa tho is, the higher the key, the higher the damage that gets transfered to the healer via iron wire. So you'll see healer have tad more damage in comps with Assa vs Sub or Outlaw just because the tanks have a tad less pressure. Ain't much but it's a bit external'd

[keen spruce]

in high keys everything is getting stopped anyways

[misty holly]

Moving AP earlier in the tree would help a lot to making it usable, but then they have to come up with something else for the capstone, and that doesn't feel like an easy task. I don't think an AoE talent works there - DTB and IC are too good for that. It would have to be a single target powerhouse talent, and I don't think Blizzard wants to buff the spec in single target.

[nocturne current]

Outsourced damage

[digital folio]

I mean I read details it doesn't show my real time DPS a point of time, if I end up at 55-60k and started with 40k I probably did 100k DPS to catch up at the end

[rotund wagon]

I’m not advocating for AP here. But ending at 60k is ending at 60k.

Same total damage

[tacit otter]

yes but its still less dmg? what

[rotund wagon]

It’s not less damage

[gaunt moat]

Well, KB used to be there and it was fine.

[digital folio]

I mean it's less then 65-70k sure

[tacit otter]

nvm youre right

i misunderstood something lol

[rotund wagon]

Like I said not advocating for AP but if the argument is 60k consistent is more than being at 60k at the end it’s the same thing as what weighs more a pound or feathers or a pound of rocks

[tacit otter]

but still tho, i dont think it matters how you line your cd's dtb will always go ahead just because of numbers

[real wigeon]

How hard is sin to pick up?

[grim tangle]

I think more damage is better than less.

[sudden canyon]

if u play gnome. pretty ez

[velvet ridge]

I'm playing in sin in m raz prog rn. I'm fully st. My raid leader assigned me to use my cds on first add shield, and I boon the second. This means I hold my cds uptop for a min. Though things might change with the nerfs. Other then that, your fucking useless, lel, spam fok envenom on big guy

[misty holly]

What about swap AP and Bonespike - and buff Bonespike so it's worth being a capstone. maybe give it the legendary effect and higher dot damage.

[digital folio]

Maybe you misunderstood me, I end with fight with 55-60k DPS on details for the overall of the fight

So overall I did that, just at the start of the fight I do 40k DPS

[tacit otter]

youre right, i misunderstood you. he just supports your position

[digital folio]

You catch up later with execute bleed, shiv bleed enhance etc ..

But then if you have CDs on pull you use on pull and hope you can DM again on execute

[tacit otter]

but i still think holding for execute guarantees losing casts of dm/exsang etc.

[peak saffron]

thanks

we sync exsang with deathmark on raz too i assume

[digital folio]

I mean if we talk about Tyra some bosses last longer than 2min30

[peak saffron]

and hold for damage amps

[thorn fjord]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[digital folio]

But if you get back CDs at 50% of the boss you hold obviously

Then you just have to try tbh, I feel it's raging week, why not give it a shot

[tacit otter]

AP/DTB?

[velvet ridge]

It's a completely scripted fight, but first off, always hold exsang puzzle for DM. Other then that my raid has dps assigned CDs so it could be different for you

[digital folio]

Heck no AP/IC

[balmy condor]

!affix

[prisma monolith]

Affixes: Tyrannical, Raging, Storming, Thundering

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

💃

[sweet dawn]

If only it was Forti raging because then taking AP could maybe be a not terrible idea

[nocturne current]

Nah it's really bad man, Poison Bomb is just too good to give away both in AoE and ST.

I mean not "really" extremely bad but, just worse.

[velvet ridge]

@digital folio I'm glad you have fun with your build, that's all that matters. But the numbers are out, the math is done, ap bad

[balmy condor]

AP/IC on a tyrannical week is honestly real metal

That’s a big move

[marble hemlock]

yeah

when you get out dpsed by the prot warrior

even without spell reflect

[digital folio]

I mean I did parse 100 on 2 20s with this build and 98 on another this week, but then I have ilvl for 20s ,\o/

[nocturne current]

If you would get an actual benefit from the soothe, but.. Most often than not just the standard double shiv does the job, to rather throw away the ST tree 🙂

[tacit otter]

m+ parse are no real thing

[thorn fjord]

You’re also parsing against 4 other people

🤣

[regal sable]

gigachad plays raid build in m+ this week

[sweet dawn]

Now that's a MAN'S build

[digital folio]

That is true sadly 😦

[fleet pagoda]

real man runs kingsbane+sepsis this week don't @ me

[balmy condor]

Did bro really just bust out the m+ parses

[thorn fjord]

Real men don’t bother logging in outside of raid this week

[digital folio]

I mean I look at my m+ logs to see if a build is working or not

[marble hemlock]

too real for you

[digital folio]

How would I know otherwise ?

[thorn fjord]

Fucking CHAD

[tacit otter]

sims?

[nocturne current]

I mean, if you're running AP/IC AND having fun AND doing high keys - you're doing it right

[marble hemlock]

or you have deep pockets

[digital folio]

Sims for m+ don't feel reliable

[balmy condor]

Oh no

[tacit otter]

more than m+ parse

i could ask my mom about what build is better and she would be more reliable than m+ parse

[nocturne current]

You play what you have most fun with, if it's enough for your current objective and you have fun with it, go for it.

At one point you will get it's natural limit 🙂

[balmy condor]

I asked my mom what the better build is and she said stop texting me all this dumb shit you’re 23 grow up and get a life

[digital folio]

I mean maybe you can teach me how to SIM, but I only manage to SIM myself in optimal situation on 5 not moving target dummies that don't need stuns or cuts 🤷🏻‍♂️

[balmy condor]

It was more informative than an m+ parse

[tacit otter]

that hits way too hard wtf

[balmy condor]

You sim dungeonslice first off

[digital folio]

Never did that then mb, only use Sims for raid

[balmy condor]

But m+ parses are based off time on that specific key I think

Not off dps

Or maybe it’s by points

Actually now that I think about it

Probably off points

[digital folio]

You have parse points on the left, and on the right you have your DPS parse

[velvet ridge]

It's off points

[storm belfry]

really?

[balmy condor]

Dps parse for like

That key?

Like specifically a +22 Shadowmoon as Assassination

Or is it all Shadowmoons for Assassination

[tacit otter]

i think that one

[balmy condor]

Wow

That’s beyond useless

[tacit otter]

but not sure

[storm belfry]

my dps ST sim for m+ build is so low

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s not like there’s a good answer

If it’s specifically that key level there’s no one to compete with

If it’s all key levels it’s a waste of data

[tacit otter]

but a +20 key doing 150k dps is a better parse than a 24 doing 120k i think

[digital folio]

Yes it's DPS comparison of the same key at this level, I mean I have like 50 contenders max \o/

[tacit otter]

atleast that happened to me in SL

[balmy condor]

M+ logs are more cursed than I thought

Dire situation

[fleet pagoda]

parse situation for the spec feels weird anywhere just because hardly anybody's playing it

[balmy condor]

I mean it’s fine in raids

There’s still enough people playing sin

[sweet dawn]

Survival hunters be like

[fleet pagoda]

I thought them and Ele shaman had a similar amount of players as sin

oh lmao nvm they have way less

[sweet dawn]

Yuppers

Was just checking myself, ~4k Mythic Eranog sin kills

[tacit otter]

SL dmg logs, naturally having a better parse on a 23 than a 25:)

[sweet dawn]

1.3k survival

[balmy condor]

[digital folio]

And in raids it's based of ilvl I think, in m+ it is not, I have 418 ilvl and I probably get compared to people with less as well

[tacit otter]

and i think it still works like that, why wouldnt it

[nocturne current]

Gonna start telling my tank not go for time but to pull over % for me to start padding

[balmy condor]

Raids have overall parses

[digital folio]

You have to click on the run to see the run specific log if you took any

[balmy condor]

Ilvl parses in Raids are garbage as fuck too

[digital folio]

Here you only see your key lvl parse compared to other sin

[regal sable]

no??

[tacit otter]

nono i was talking about something complete different. these are dps parses not key lvl

[eager sorrel]

2set isn't enough to make ST tempest a thing I assume.

[tacit otter]

tuning tbd

[oblique jackal]

Anyone well rehearsed with WCL?

[balmy condor]

[digital folio]

I don't think they are DPS parses, I think it only shows key parses on warcraftlogs

[oak tangle]

what the fuck is this tier set

[tacit otter]

then why has a 23 a better parse than a 25?

[oblique jackal]

tbh i think the tier set is solid

bc shiv increases nature dmg

which is the tier set

[fleet pagoda]

nature damage is kinda cheeks baseline

[digital folio]

The explain this, I have same aca 20 with 10k DPS diff and same parse

[tacit otter]

youre not on dps, youre on key level. there are 2 different options to choose

[oblique jackal]

i mean yeah.. it's nothing crazy but at least we have tier sets

[tacit otter]

like in raids, theres dps and speed. also 2 different sets of parses

[oblique jackal]

it's the 3rd tier set we've had in along time

[eager sorrel]

This feels like a yes :(

[tacit otter]

and theyre are not the "same parse". one is higher one is lower just happens to be the same % (nvm they are but thats just random, lol)

[oak tangle]

there's gonna be some degenerate sendign of dm on a target that's about to die

to do aoe

[eager sorrel]

Or like a 'i don't want to look at APL's again!'

[fleet pagoda]

check out the boomkin tier set for comparison

[oblique jackal]

i hope they do a CDR for DM

[oblique jackal]

link?

[digital folio]

https://de.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/elune/schatz?zone=32#metric=dps&boss=12526. I mean you can check for yourself, I did put damage not key level \o/ it's only if you click on the specific key, and it's log that you see your DPS parse

[fleet pagoda]

(2) Set Bonus: Sunfire radius increased by 2 yards. Sunfire, Moonfire and Shooting Stars damage increased by 18%.
(4) Set Bonus: Shooting Stars has a 20% chance to instead call down a Crashing Star, dealing (72% of Attack Power) Astral damage to the target and generating 5 Astral Power. @oblique jackal it doesn't change the way they play for better or worse but it at least fits their kit

[tacit otter]

ye it has to be logged to show but dps parse are still complete different to key level parse

2 seperate things

[oblique jackal]

sheesh thats rough

it looks like they're taking a simple approach to tier sets again

I'm just annoyed they keep reworking balance and SP over aand over

Delete the spec and move on lol

[keen spruce]

spriest talent tree was never really finished before launch and just got a bunch of buffs in the mean time

they kinda needed it

[fleet pagoda]

I mean their tier sets are playing to their strengths whereas we may take our AoE spender for single target contexts. we have an identity crisis all around

[oak tangle]

have you seen how they do aoe, i think im hard swapping to them

what assass should be

[keen spruce]

yeah they're numbers are great but the spec was kind of a mess

[oak tangle]

no i mean with rework

[keen spruce]

oh i didn't look at it much but i heard it was good

[oak tangle]

they are now perma 8 target aoe with one talent

[keen spruce]

they'll get to us eventually

[fleet pagoda]

balance druid plays similar to sin too. if we had ways to extend bleeds it'd be near identical

[oak tangle]

throw shadow crash and pump prio target

[keen spruce]

just make IC a passive to make up for our 10% ST loss going into AoE spec and still being bad at it

[oak tangle]

they reduced crash damage, but it is now 20s cd to apply the dots

[oblique jackal]

It looks like Sub and Outlaw will still be the play

[oak tangle]

we'll see, i dont think sub's tier set matter much

[oblique jackal]

i wish the tier set changed the playstyle

not just be a passive

[oak tangle]

it will probs

[fleet pagoda]

well if you find yourself taking CT for a patchwerk fight you'll get your wish

[round swift]

So I probably jacked up the math… but the new 2 set looks about 9% increase in aoe and 2% in ST.

I have no idea how to calculate the 4-set.

[oak tangle]

i mean we have to be getting a rework or something, because it doesn't make sense as is, otherwise we're gonna be incentivised to exsang after dm

[fleet pagoda]

what's the tech on that?

[oak tangle]

reduce dm duration

[eager sorrel]

Nothing like napkin math to get us the answers we crave

[oak tangle]

to get to the 4 pc

[round swift]

Literally on a napkin too. Authentic.

[keen spruce]

i mean the numbers will almost certainly be adjusted on all tier sets. but like rn ~40% of our damage is nature so it wouldn't be that crazy to napkin math it. but you gotta factor in the nature damage on CT and rupture too

[fleet pagoda]

oh maybe for aoe

[eager sorrel]

I hope you forgot the /S

[digital folio]

The 4 set seems kind of counter intuitive, you deal bonus nature dmg after your CDs, I guess you have shiv back up after your DM 🤷🏻‍♂️

[keen spruce]

but like the actual damage numbers are kind of irrelevant cuz it's all gonna get tuned during PTR

[fleet whale]

Hmm CT on ST.. Just what this spec needs, more buttons!

[regal sable]

u got like 2 buttons

chill

[oak tangle]

we need a rogue content creator to make a comment on a youtube vid saying how bad stuff is so we get changes, like how that priest got their wishes in the rework

[oblique jackal]

Realz is always looking at discord

[fleet whale]

there aren't many pve rogue content creators

[oblique jackal]

Let the man work and see what he comes up with! 10.0.7 isn't out yet.. lots of time guys !

[fleet whale]

most of them focus on pvp

[oak tangle]

i just meant that the priest made a video "we need shadow crash to be lower cd" and then they do it

[round swift]

It’s the time window I don’t know how to math.

[tacit otter]

its out next week??

[digital folio]

Tbh the class is fine, they just need to rework exsang, or add it to DM or smth

[oblique jackal]

a week is a lot of time

[digital folio]

Feels kind of horrible to play exsang

[oblique jackal]

^

[round swift]

Remove the kinda.

[oak tangle]

the fact that i see crimson tempest in the tier set isn't fine

[round swift]

It just feels horrible.

[oblique jackal]

they should make it baseline

which is prob something they're doing

[fleet pagoda]

please no 😦

[keen spruce]

30s every 2 min so just 1/4 of whatever you calculate out or something. but like again it's kinda pointless cuz someone smarter is just gonna make a sim and it'll tell you a real number

[digital folio]

Imagine having to crimson tempest, double improved garrote/rupture before exsang into DM, while casting puzzlebox to optimize your DPS

I prefer just not playing it

[oblique jackal]

Play sub!

[round swift]

I like to try to contribute

[eager sorrel]

Replace puzzle box with irideus and we're talking!

[oblique jackal]

^prob will

[oak tangle]

new trinket, do we buff our hurty

[fleet whale]

Whole screen will just be WA timers soon

[digital folio]

Isn't there a trinket that gives base mastery and a shit ton of agility next patch ?

On use

[keen spruce]

I just mean that any math rn isn't really helpful unless you're gonna theory craft talent setups to go with it on all of the rupture/poison modifiers and how they'll change the nature buff from 4p or the rupture nature component on 2p and how THAT interacts with 4p. not to mention everything is gonna get adjusted during testing. i'm not bashin you, but i've tried to napkin math stuff out before and you end up in a rabbit hole of dispair

[eager sorrel]

Irideus

And a couple unimplemented

[oak tangle]

there's a trinket that gives vers, and a proc for massive agi, but we do nature damage to ourselves. imagine if that is buffed by 40%

[keen spruce]

step 1. give band aid AoE 2p buff
step 2. give class trinket that applies a bleed to you so you can never restealth in m+

[digital folio]

Imagine having to afk to benefit of the agility bonus while your bleeds are rollin 👍

[fleet pagoda]

oh no... i didn't even think of that

[fleet whale]

I know it's early on and all of these tier bonuses will change, but does the sub set bonuses seem super lame to anyone else?

[eager sorrel]

Dwarf o'clock

[fleet pagoda]

on the bright side brackenhide cancels stealth for no reason anyways. might as well bleed while we do it

[oak tangle]

I want the outlaw one

[fleet whale]

yeah the outlaw one seems cool

[keen spruce]

you mean the assassination torghast power

[eager sorrel]

It seems giga busted, can't we just get 70%+ on symbols?

[oak tangle]

it fill the gap in our aoe

we should have it

[fleet whale]

it's just sort of boring to me

especially the 4 set

[keen spruce]

it's literally just vein rippers

[oak tangle]

they're gonna have 100% uptime on symbols now right?

[fleet whale]

yeah, which is lame

[oak tangle]

ye

i mean they already had it when they needed it

[fleet whale]

I have always and always will hate effects that essentially make big cds permanent

[keen spruce]

isn't it just 10s from dance, 10s from hard cast, 30s cd?

i don't know shit about sub

do they have a CDR component or somethin

[fleet whale]

for dance they do

and they can get two charges of dance if they want as well (I don't think they do this though)

[keen spruce]

if they get 100% symbols uptime without it then i don't see why they'd run double dance

[oak tangle]

they have a talent that reduceds cd by 5 seconds

so at best it's 20/25s

[keen spruce]

yeah 5s per max cp finisher

idk how that works out in practice

probably not 100% uptime but definitely a lot

[oak tangle]

huh

it's justa flat 5s cd

so it can be on 25s cd

instead of 30

[keen spruce]

oh for symbols

i meant this

oh they have this too

yeah that shit's gonna be up forever

[oak tangle]

they don't take those talents, but maybe that is the prupose of this tier to make them

indirect sepsis buff

[keen spruce]

maybe

idk enough about hte spec to know what they'd really have to give up for it

is there a world where they drop sec tec silent storm

[oak tangle]

4 talent points

[keen spruce]

yeah but all 4 of them synergize with 2 and 4p

who knows

[pastel onyx]

plz no

[keen spruce]

weird spec

[pastel onyx]

I dont wanna go back to bp spam

no sec tec dropping

[keen spruce]

my brain never meshed with sub

but i also have spent very little time with it

[final star]

#subtlety

[sweet dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/trash-know-your-place-gif-12886026

[gusty mirage]

idk man

rogues are a weird breed

super loyal to one spec

[sweet dawn]

Jk I like sub... ish

[gusty mirage]

sub's fine

[spice spire]

Amen

[final star]

I like rogue

(not outlaw)

[spice spire]

Amen

[sweet dawn]

Never liked sub as much as Assa, except secret technique because shadow clones are funny

[keen spruce]

I don't think there's anything wrong with sub my brain just don't work when i play it

i mean even less than it normally does

doesn't

[oak tangle]

it's pretty cruisy this iteration

[unreal bear]

losing out on PI for an enhance "gamba" spec

feels bad

[sweet dawn]

All I do is pray that our unholy players can't make it to raid and I go "Don't make me tap the sign"

This being the sign

[keen spruce]

no one cares about assas outside of this channel lol

lalala rogue op

"you have 2 other viable dps specs"

"you don't always have to be number 1 at single target"

[dark bridge]

then you get people complaining about how good rogue is at pvp

[keen spruce]

"BM also doesn't do AoE"

[dark bridge]

as if anyone gives a shit

[keen spruce]

"rogue broken in pvp"

"just play sub"

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-sponge-bob-square-pants-blah-blah-annoyed-irritated-gif-5220026

[unreal bear]

this is what they referenced

no clue where this comes from

[sweet dawn]

Now I'm not suggesting you tell them that chart is wrong...

BUT

It would be beneficial 👀

[balmy condor]

Wtf is that spreadsheet

[unreal bear]

i have no idea

it overrates UH and underrates assa

sometimes you just find guilds that do weird shit

[pastel onyx]

u jsut make ur own spreadsheet put ur class higher

show as evidence

to get a PI

ez

[balmy condor]

And when they ask who’s spreadsheet it is

Just Name Drop a random streamer

[oak tangle]

that is 100% a bunch of numbers a frost dk has pulled out of his ass, in a group that doesn't have demo, devo or a bm hunter in it

[balmy condor]

Be like “yeah I got it from naguura”

And then they’ll go “oh okay”

[unreal bear]

rofl

[balmy condor]

Because they’re monkeys

And that’s a name I know

Surely they’re correct

Big streamer = correct information

That’s how that works

[oak tangle]

"frost dk top 5 for pi guys, gif me"

[sweet dawn]

"pls gif PI, da graff say me gud PI"

[keen spruce]

is there a reliable PI breakdown for just execute phase

i'm trying to convince my raid to give me execute PIs

oh did i miss important conversation

oh yeah

that

[balmy condor]

Oh it definitely is

[keen spruce]

[unreal bear]

oh i found the source

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1exJeu5eVe4bTmyg3WFx5PTxIWvDLi0j-WW-XWpGoG88/edit#gid=1711510822

[keen spruce]

why tf

[oak tangle]

"4. All sims are 5 min patchwerks and timers are manually changed to reflect where each spec would want a 2nd and 3rd PI depending on their CDs."

a bold assumption he knows when people want pi

[keen spruce]

did this person go through all of this work

when teams of people already did it for him

[unreal bear]

"Huge shoutout to a lot of the classes' Theorycrafters who helped me by providing a lot of information! Big thanks to Kider who helped me with sims and multiple guild mates who were also ready to answer any questions I had (I am not an expert at every spec I admit)."

yeah thanks Whispyr

[balmy condor]

Yeah

I know this guy

I still have no clue why he made the sheet

But it exists

It’s a fuck ton of work for something bloodmallet servers do automatically every night

[keen spruce]

wait but the spreadsheet you linked

[balmy condor]

And I guess you can find out who has the strongest tier sets

[keen spruce]

shows assas as 2nd best PI target

[balmy condor]

Which is useful

For someone

I assume

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

Maybe

[keen spruce]

or 3rd best

[balmy condor]

Idk who needs that info

But someone does

[keen spruce]

4th best this shit is organized terribly

[fleet pagoda]

blizzard needs it

[unreal bear]

could maybe be some argument for tier distribution early in the tier i guess but

this late

[oak tangle]

the last update was 31/1

[keen spruce]

@unreal bear the spreadsheet you linked has assas at 4th best PI target

doesn't match the screenshot

[balmy condor]

I mean even then you could just use droptimizer, that’s what we do

[unreal bear]

yeah it looks out of date for sure

[keen spruce]

where's the PI + WF comparison send em back to the sim gulag

[keen spruce]

are they using the screenshot to justify PI targets? or the spreadsheet

[unreal bear]

"we don't know where the data is from"

i had to go find it

[keen spruce]

cuz the spreadsheed hasn't been updated since january so it's not like brand new information has come to light

I think you're being fucked by your raid

[unreal bear]

eh they're some randoms that seemed nice and i didn't mind pugging. just hate to see the enhance shaman spreading old charts that make him a top pick for PI lol

i'll assume no malintent tho

[oak tangle]

if anyone is linking things to get themselves PI, they 100% look at bloodmallet, and 100% know that chart is wrong

[keen spruce]

never assume malice when stupidity is still an option

[balmy condor]

What’s wrong with bloodmallet

[oak tangle]

nothing, I meant that the 'fake' chart they are linking

[balmy condor]

Oh

Gotcha

[unreal bear]

i could reference the other group i ran with that called it "pvp data only"

[keen spruce]

the fake chart has assas outperforming bloodmallet anyways, dum dum enh linking ancient outdated build of spreadsheet

that I question ever existed

in that form

I do wanna see an excecute PI sim from bloodmallet though

I feel it in my plums that assas is near or at the top

[oak tangle]

what classes beat us in exe damage?

[keen spruce]

I don't think anyone does if you run my forbidden build with 3x zoldyk

but i'm pretty sure we're at or near the top with 2x as well

[oak tangle]

also watcher irideus fight, hnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng

[keen spruce]

I sim like about 100k in 4m execute with no lust but I have NO idea how accurate execute patchwerk is and I've never seen anyone use it before for anything

[oak tangle]

sure arms or something is stonks

[keen spruce]

I think arms would be the only real competition? i don't know a lot of other classes that well though

but they'd have to make up the PI gap that already exists

[spice spire]

Delete this rn nephew

[oak tangle]

all i know is on heroic raz i doubled everyone elses on 3rd shield lol

[keen spruce]

https://tenor.com/view/nra-gun-guns-rifle-heston-gif-18040005

[oak tangle]

with said forbidden build

[keen spruce]

p3 heroic raz

[storm belfry]

ty for this

[keen spruce]

certified

[ebon notch]

cursed

[keen spruce]

idk here's mythic dathea execute vs our arms warrior

similar uptime

idk how good he is

i didn't post it

goddamnit

sennarth execute

u can't tell me we shouldn't be gettin PI in execute

[spice spire]

If you have a uhdk you should not

[keen spruce]

is DH execute big? i just assumed their numbers were juiced by first PI

but also our UDH rerolled resto shaman

[pastel onyx]

[fleet pagoda]

if he wanted to be a healer he should have just switched to blood

[spice spire]

The classic unholy dh

[keen spruce]

he's a healer main idk why he was playin UDH for the first half of the tier tbh

but what you're saying is

no udh

my PI

[spice spire]

Iirc evoker close

In execute

I just hate pi personally

So I prefer to give it to whomever

[fleet pagoda]

just take it off your bars, boom problem's gone

[keen spruce]

i just want number go up

[spice spire]

Skill issue

Maybe run Exsang

[keen spruce]

i tried it in a heroic pug today

did not like

[spice spire]

[keen spruce]

but probably because we killed heroic terros with like 5 people alive and pizza slices on opposite sides of the room

[fleet pagoda]

when was this that you were in a group with Max?

[keen spruce]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikbSL4LxI60

I weaseled into this

was very bored afk in valdraken and saw he was streamin

[fleet pagoda]

[unreal bear]

uh oh

i know the DH

[keen spruce]

prepared?

he was also a weasel

[unreal bear]

zigz

[keen spruce]

I think he was just in the group

before we got there

[unreal bear]

yeah he mentioned that he raided with max and we were like

wtf

[keen spruce]

that group was a fucking hoot

[unreal bear]

you fuckin cranked damage

[keen spruce]

shield pad and p3

[spice spire]

Don’t ever compliment Shmeeps

Opp behavior

[keen spruce]

yeah fuck sherros

[spice spire]

[storm belfry]

What do you guys sim for for ST w M+ talents? Just curious

[storm belfry]

This emote scares me

Almost as much as xxd or whatever it’s called

[fleet pagoda]

my ST simmed for 17% less on M+ build

I have no reference point for wether that's a reasonable loss for building for aoe

[storm belfry]

I think I lose roughly the same

Was just wondering

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

[oak sky]

@ebon notch they also failed the docks pull while i was gone

and we spent a full 4 minutes on double guardian constructs

because people didnt press interrupt

doomed ass key

[marble hemlock]

doomed assa key?

[oak sky]

no

i dont play assa anymore

[subtle kiln]

[oak sky]

didnt mean to say that in this channel anyways

[pastel onyx]

[steel ridge]

Our arms warrior usually does more execute dmg than me and they should.

[oak tangle]

nature tempest

[gusty mirage]

arms warrior

[oak tangle]

ye, especailly with buffs

[green juniper]

Shite vault again..

[oak sky]

unholy too maybe?

[gusty mirage]

maybe if CDs line up and they get PI

hard to tell

plus idk shit about unholy

us taking 2 in zold now doesn't help either

[oak sky]

frost looks like it could be fun next tier

spamming wyrm

[gusty mirage]

feel free to let me know how it shakes up my dude

[oak sky]

ill be happily rerolling

[oak sky]

some of my irl friends are gonna start playing in a couple weeks

[gusty mirage]

honestly, the hardest part of quitting is saying bye to all the online friends

[oak sky]

at least one will try doing real content and shit

[oak sky]

at least you can stay here

[gusty mirage]

I mean I signed up to stay here

[oak sky]

[gusty mirage]

who knows, maybe I come back to the game later on

but I'm enjoying the shit out of other games rn

we hit p3 for the first time ever on rasz and I logged off to play last epoch

everyone was hype in discord and I was kinda like "yea that's cool"

when the excitement shifts to "I'm gonna be done sooner than I thought"

[oak sky]

tbh im not enjoying any

wow with the 2-3 irl friends that are gonna play is gonna be incredibly fun though

i know how they are with games

[oak tangle]

i was meant to be playing starfield rn, but i guess it's not coming for a while still

[gusty mirage]

might be time to find something irl to occupy your time then man

[oak sky]

if only

i wasnt recovering from an injury

[gusty mirage]

you will be ready to go soon enough

[oak sky]

yeah pt guy said 2-3 weeks

like for mobility to recover

[gusty mirage]

now that the weather is getting better

I'm going to start running again

and golfing

[oak sky]

probably gym in the coming weeks and climbing again soon after

[gusty mirage]

[oak sky]

but i still run out of shit to do

wow is fine

[gusty mirage]

ya I mean if you got it there to game out with the homies

whether online or irl

it's good to have

[oak sky]

its the only game i really enjoy rn

the rest i only play because other people are playing

[gusty mirage]

ya that's essentially wow for me rn

I only play because people ask me to play or for raid

[oak sky]

ye

wow doesnt always hit tho

it gets bad

[gusty mirage]

I think my biggest wow L is that the dungeons just aren't fun

[green juniper]

Cant see wowhead, anyone have our set bonuses?

[oak tangle]

i've taken up using a DAW and messing around making some beats

[tacit otter]

pin

[gusty mirage]

I used to be able to expand my interest w/ M+

not so much this eason

[gusty mirage]

assassination one is in the pins with Cev's dooming

[green juniper]

Thanks saw it, i’ll prepare my pitchforks if you guys decide its bad..

[tacit otter]

it is (conceptually)

[keen spruce]

you missed the pitchforks

everyone is just depressed or asleep now

[gaunt moat]

Problem is, it's literally the opposite of what we asked for.

[grim tangle]

what did you ask for

[green juniper]

May be i am a furry, may be feral is the way

[gaunt moat]

Being able to do more AoE with ST build.

[keen spruce]

to be fair

[grim tangle]

both of these things boost your aoe though?

I don't understand

[keen spruce]

I don't think anyone was gonna be happy

without a spec tree rework

[fleet pagoda]

now your ST build will include CT, problem solved!

[green juniper]

Ct at st rotation sounds clunky 😦

[gaunt moat]

What does this, is better ST in our AoE build.

so, the opposite

[keen spruce]

unless our single target now includes CT

which "technically"

[gaunt moat]

don't

[unreal bear]

(2) Exsanguinate now effects Serrated Bone Spike

[grim tangle]

I guess my main problem is you asked for the wrong thing if doing more aoe damage is what you asked for

[gaunt moat]

It's not just "me" personally. it's what the spec needs.

[keen spruce]

the conversation is much more nuanced than that

[grim tangle]

it's really not though

[keen spruce]

and that's also not what he said we asked for

[oak tangle]

the answer to our problems is a rogue tier set

it was just given to outlaw

[keen spruce]

I mean again, I'm pretty sure no one was gonna be happy without a spec tree rework

[grim tangle]

I'm very confused why what you wanted for the tier set is AoE damage, that would make our tier set complete trash

[keen spruce]

If it was a good tier set that fixed the problems we were hoping would be fixed, then it's just a bandaid that prevents spec changes because it would double up on tier bonus

if it's a shit tier set, then we're mad cuz it's a shit tier set

[oak tangle]

as soon as you see the words "crimson tempest" in our tier set we sad

[gaunt moat]

I'll refine the answer:
We hoped the spec would go in a direction that would allow us to have a strong ST, while also improving our AoE, since that's been a big issue for us.
Instead, we got a tier set with a direction heading towards taking an AoE talent, but now it's probably also gonna be used in ST.

[oak tangle]

we want ct removed not core

[grim tangle]

nobody actually wants ct removed

[oak tangle]

:/

[keen spruce]

;/

[gaunt moat]

8/

[grim tangle]

so we wanna do more aoe but also we want to remove our main aoe damage dealer?

[gaunt moat]

We want better tools than CT.

And it's not a simple fix

[grim tangle]

lets give sin rogue black powder, I fixed the problem

[strange python]

We want a fundamentally reworked AoE, or to be pushed straight into the ST niche.

[fleet pagoda]

our main aoe damage is still garrote

[keen spruce]

yellow woke up and and chose violence and limited reading comprehension

[green juniper]

Buff IC, rework CT or delete it

[subtle tundra]

Red is better anyways

[oak tangle]

just give us outlaws tier set

[oak sky]

there are ways that we could do aoe without ct, its not really that complicated

[strange python]

IC's cooldown is kinda crazy considering replicating shadows for sub.

[unreal bear]

very different though

[green juniper]

Yeah sub have unlimited ic xd

[strange python]

You're right. Our rupture does less damage than subs.

[subtle tundra]

Comparing ic with replicating is stupid

And yall know

[oak sky]

no they actually dont

[gaunt moat]

To be fair, sub IS the bleed dot spec, right?

[oak tangle]

(2) Set Bonus: Damage you inflict applies a Soulrip, dealing 5% of all damage you deal as physical damage over 8 seconds.
(4) Set Bonus: Shiv unleashes all Soulrips, dealing 200% of all remaining damage and granting 7% Agility for 15 seconds.

[strange python]

I mean the garrote portion is different. But it is obviously absurd that the dot spec has worse dot spread.

[unreal bear]

take it back

[strange python]

Sin takes way too long to spread dots.

[oak sky]

instant is too long

[gaunt moat]

and we have no extension mechanic

[oak sky]

interesting

[strange python]

Also would love poison bomb to become our AoE finisher. Burst instead of dot. And then just buff envenom for single target.

[unreal bear]

i would just like to not have to fish for PB procs

[strange python]

Instant every 45 seconds. With 18-24 second durations.

[fleet pagoda]

beat me to it

[gaunt moat]

Well, you're gonna be doing more CTs, so you won't 🙂

[oak sky]

lets just act like sin and sub are the same for sure

[strange python]

I honestly think you could fix most of subs problems if poison bomb becomes a finisher, CT gets deleted, and envenom gets buffed.

[subtle tundra]

Bring back rupture spamming ty

[oak sky]

thats a really smart way of going about this

[strange python]

Sins

[oak sky]

nobody except you me and seli want that

[subtle tundra]

And what you just said means our rotation doesn't change

[unreal bear]

ok but only if it stops the tank from moving mobs out of poison bomb

[subtle tundra]

How does that fix it

[gaunt moat]

It's be fine with rupture also proccing PB like it used to

[subtle tundra]

You clearly have no idea about assa

[oak tangle]

IC would go haaaaaaaaaard

[keen spruce]

making PB a finisher and removing CT doesn't make any sense

[strange python]

The rotation isnt necessarily the issue. It's that it takes way too long for damage to go out. Any pack that dies quickly doesn't let dots tick.

Dropping IC to 25 second CD does a lot to help too

[grim tangle]

poison bomb is what they should remove if anything

[oak sky]

varas its always the same story everyone wants assassination to just become sub

[subtle tundra]

?????

But we are a dot spec

[gaunt moat]

that's not how it would work but that's a crazy idea XD

[keen spruce]

I mean we're a dot spec

that's how dot specs work

[subtle tundra]

I don't want my dot spec to do dot

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

Okay so then sin will have permanently bad AoE anyways, let's just go all in on single target and delete CT.

[oak sky]

i thought you were an ic enjoyer type

[unreal bear]

IC feels really fucking lame as a capstone

[pastel onyx]

but noone want CT deleted

[subtle tundra]

Dot dmg doesn't mean bad dmg Dumbo

[pastel onyx]

[oak tangle]

make IC 18s cd

kek

[subtle tundra]

Remove ic

[keen spruce]

shadow priest, boomkin, and aff all do crazy damage as dot specs and have talents that interact with their dots in a meaningful and helpful way in AoE

[gaunt moat]

Back in my day, they promised to rework Exsanguinate.
but that was hard.
so instead they reworked druid 3 times.

[balmy condor]

I’d prefer multidotting over ic but ic is good

[strange python]

Sins just gonna drop to one of the lowest playrate specs in the game next patch anyways.

It's already down there

[oak sky]

i think having ct as an aoe button works really well so we have some sort of uncapped damage but i also want it updated with some improvements

[unreal bear]

how do we get much lower

[subtle tundra]

Sure buddy

[strange python]

Uhhh

[oak sky]

theres a really good way to up playrate

its called give spec damage

[pastel onyx]

or nerf other specs proc to not give u full cp

[gaunt moat]

I hear you. The message has been received. Best I can do is a pvp nerf.

[pastel onyx]

[keen spruce]

when tf is zoldyk gonna be a 2 point talent btw

adding that to my list of gripes

[oak sky]

probably 10.2

[subtle tundra]

Remove ic and omega buff sob

[oak sky]

yeah

free banger

[unreal bear]

scent of blood feels really lame

[oak sky]

make ct an energy dump

buff sob

remove ic

fucking 40k dude

or whatever

[keen spruce]

SoB in its current form that far down the tree

[unreal bear]

i know i've been told i'm wrong a thousand times

[keen spruce]

is pretty criminal as a 3 point node too

[unreal bear]

but it still makes me sad to see so few CPs from FoK

😢

[oak sky]

everyone has known that for almost a year

[gaunt moat]

get more crit

[oak sky]

3 point nodes are dogshit

always have been

[keen spruce]

fanning the lasher packs in AA and getting 2 cp

[unreal bear]

i have 43%

[gaunt moat]

get more luck

[unreal bear]

that's the constructive feedback i needed thank you

[slow tulip]

ye, when i got more luck i feel much better playing law and sub tbh

[oak tangle]

Shadow Crash now has a 20 second cooldown (was 30 seconds).

Shadow Crash:
Hurl a bolt of slow-moving Shadow energy at the destination, dealing (210.375% of Spell power) Shadow damage to all targets within 8 yards and applying Vampiric Touch to 8 of them.

Vampiric touch:
A touch of darkness that causes 49 Shadow damage over 21 sec

Psychic link:
Mind Blast, Mind Flay, Mind Spike, Mindgames, Void Bolt, and Void Torrent deal 30% of their damage to all other targets afflicted by your Vampiric Touch within 40 yards.

just look at that aoe synergy

and we get CT

[keen spruce]

lookin over the spec tree it feel more and more like they read 1/2 of the feed back, remember 10%, misunderstand 5% and implement a fix for 3% of the 5% they misunderstood

[green juniper]

Ic to shadow step group silence garrote a pack is peak assa for me

[grim tangle]

yes what sin needs is blade flurry

[oak sky]

that "aoe synergy" you're talking about is just blade flurry and about 6 builders

[oak tangle]

what we need is a reward for multi dotting

[oak sky]

damage is a good reward

[unreal bear]

i don't need a little treat

i need a fifth poison that scales with targets

[oak sky]

priest isnt even much of a dot spec though, like all their damage is loaded in psychic link

[keen spruce]

so you can swap poisons between add phases on bosses

[oak sky]

feral is pretty much the only aoe dot spec rn

[unreal bear]

THEMING BABY

[slow tulip]

assa already feels good to play, its a numbers game really

[oak sky]

[green juniper]

Till you have CT at your ST rotation xd

[unreal bear]

or it'd be some goofy "improved" deadly poison that does x% more dmg per target inflicted

[slow tulip]

well that was the case in bfa and sl, so nothing really changes

[unreal bear]

im full of bad ideas, put me on the class design team blizz

[keen spruce]

I don't even really care about CT in ST tbh

maybe it would help making envenom uptime a thing again

[unreal bear]

assa is like 30apm i think i can handle CT in my ST

[slow tulip]

its a slow spec anyways ye

[keen spruce]

CT doesn't help apm

[slow tulip]

its not like law so

[storm onyx]

I would take that tbh

[keen spruce]

press CT instead of envenom, still one actual

[grim tangle]

having CT in the best ST build is good, actually means you have aoe/cleave when adds come in raid

[slow tulip]

just press CT instead of every 4th envenom :^)

[oak tangle]

how can you say that a multi dotting reward is a treat you dont want, and in the same sentence say you want a scaling poison based on targets it's applied to

[unreal bear]

because minimal effort

[oak sky]

poisons are some boomer classic shit

[unreal bear]

dont blame me blame the mastery

[grim tangle]

true delete poisons actually

[slow tulip]

still having 5 poisons at a time feels good to me

[oak sky]

i mean no need to delete them

[slow tulip]

i want 6 poisons at a time now

:/

[oak sky]

theyre better as passive effects than so many other talents we have

[grim tangle]

delete damaging poisons

[slow tulip]

those 4+ leech we have now, BUT with instant poison aswell

holyyyyy

[green juniper]

Yeah and delete rupture and garrote, give us windfury and execute

[unreal bear]

and a pet

[oak tangle]

if fok crits it puts a duplicating poison on the target, making your st damage cleave

[keen spruce]

a rat with a razor blade, he can apply bleeds for us

[oak sky]

if you have $10 and you buy two cokes for 10 minutes and burgers, now the first coke only last 2.5 minutes then you spend less to burgers and buy another coke, still $10. The difference transferred to burger difference not money wise

[runic hinge]

if you have $10 and you buy two cokes for 10 minutes and burgers, now the first coke only last 2.5 minutes then you spend less to burgers and buy another coke, still $10. The difference transferred to burger difference not money wise

[grim tangle]

yes please compare 2 actives buttons with a completely passive effect

[unreal bear]

why are we called assassination if everything i try to kill dies so slowly

know what im saying

[oak sky]

haha xd

[runic hinge]

You're right, give us a sniper rifle and grassy knoll

[keen spruce]

rename the spec to exanguinate

[oak sky]

change assassination and sub names