It’s technically better to use it on rupture over envenom because rupture is more damage per cp
#assassination
balmy condor
But we don’t play around that
You just use whatever finisher you would normally use in that moment
velvet dirge
Great thanks for the info appreciate all that you do!
balmy condor
Np
royal lantern
the time where you WANT a ER rupture is before exsang
balmy condor
I mean not even then
We don’t play around ER exsang except In opener
Outside of opener the two actually just don’t interact
native belfry
We don’t play around ER exsang except In opener
So we don’t need to save ER for exsang?
balmy condor
No
Er is Just on cooldown every 45 seconds
If at any point in time it’s not greyed out on your weakauras you’re doing it wrong
winter gale
I just want to thank you all guys, Strep checked and told me it was fairly good ❤️
balmy condor
Young strep
rugged warren
!log
prisma monolithBOT
Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage
Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/
rugged warren
o
balmy condor
spice spire
rugged warren
im a bit of a pleb ass rogue, feel like theres a few times where i lose envenom uptime
is this normal, not big just like 1 or 2 globals maybe
oak tangle
you could still move your puzzle cast till after dm
balmy condor
you could still move your puzzle cast till after dm
How he did it is technically best
No reason to change it
oak tangle
wait really?
oak tangle
so it's worth l;osing a partial gcd for that extra time with dm mastery buffed
balmy condor
But by all accounts it is theoretically the best way
balmy condor
so it's worth l;osing a partial gcd for that extra time with dm mastery buffed
Yeah kinda
oak tangle
i imagine it still matters to not press it before exsang and after dots though
balmy condor
Doesn’t really matter
oak tangle
damn, fair enough
rugged warren
i seem to be slightly behind my lock/frost dk on ST at broodkeeper before execute phase. i assume thats pretty normal right?
winter gale
Small tip: When googling for wow analayzer type everything. Otherwise... 😄
oak tangle
depends if you're an anduin or sylvanas fan
rugged warren
should i aim to line up shiv with DM, ie hold shiv for a bit?
oak tangle
no
heady drum
anyone here actually runs assa in 20+ and higher keys?
trail tree
Yeah
winter gale
We are like top few PI targets?
heady drum
looking at some builds on subcreation most people seem to just go the regular st build?
velvet ridge
I run 20s+ and never run arterial precision
pseudo hamlet
do you run arterial precision or nah?
AP is too big DPS lose compared to DTB/IC
spice spire
uncut echo
Y'all wilding this early
uncut echo
We are like top few PI targets?
We are. But mostly in execute do we shine. We are behind BM Unholy Devastation and Demo by default.
I was getting PI'd on M dathea as I stayed on boss 24/7
While udk was going up on platforms they weren't receiving PI regularly
spice spire
uncut echo
<a:SoCute:1021164936929484820>
Gm king
spice spire
No 
gray crest
you mean to tell me you didnt run ic iron wire on dathea
spice spire
Unethical gamers slamming boss
uncut echo
you mean to tell me you didnt run ic iron wire on dathea
:3
I didn't do a platform
Bc they wanted me to st boss the whole time
Are you telling me that's unironically the play @gray crest
gray crest
its needed if your melee dont know how to kick on platforms
uncut echo
spice spire
When we get to dathea two days before 10.1 drops
spice spire
I’ll have to do iron wire
gray crest
pretty sure oxi almost murdered someone that da y
spice spire
I can almost guarantee it
tiny ember
Do I recall this correctly that Exang was a 45 second cd and was changed to 3 min and they stated they will rework it at a later date so maybe we get some changes in 10.1 to talents and is there anything out there for rogue cause i couldn't find anything
spice spire
Yes
oak tangle
bliz were like "stop right there criminal scum, you've violated the law"
copper hazel
how DARE you do more than BM hunters, we must abolish this immediately
spice spire
Banned
thorn fjord
New lore? @spice spire
thorn fjord
Got to the last spark last night on our first night of bird prog... P1 actually not giving us such a hard time so far
Too good to be true
brazen zodiac
famous last words
spice spire
Been nerfed a bit too
brazen zodiac
oak tangle
Other classes can do more than us and that be okay
but the classes that are doing better than us are doing better than us pre nerf. so you know?
it's a statement that it's notok for sin to do that, but for others it's fine
oak tangle
so they nerfed us, and buffed the others to that level
uncut echo
Yeah
oak tangle
should have done one or the other
uncut echo
And it's okay to have leveled out there
oak tangle
not both
oak tangle
right, but how does it make sense that they go to our pre nerf level?
uncut echo
I don't think they are
Sin was simming like 98k single target in bis
If they fix PB and ER, and rework exsang we're completely
100%
Fine
We don't need buffed
oak tangle
in ST
uncut echo
Yeah?
oak tangle
we will still not see play in m+
native belfry
Yeah, just bring back legion PB and we’re gonna slap m+ 
uncut echo
Yeah, just bring back legion PB and we’re gonna slap m+ <:Kekega:997515477049933...
No I was talking 2% nerf to chance cuz they're eggs
winter gale
We have like 2months min of this tier?
uncut echo
We have like 2months min of this tier?
Basically yeah
vestal wren
We have like 2months min of this tier?
may is earliest release of 10.1
so likely more than 2 month left
winter gale
I guess its more than enough
uncut echo
Yeah it's early to mid may
uncut echo
Chicken go down
winter gale
Hahah, now when I got some instructions 😂
We pulled diurna 120 times
😂
We died so so many times in p1 after we got her multiple times to sub 5%
Got bracers, If torch or dagger avoid me in the vault I will socket em so still good
winter gale
Yeah it's early to mid may
Dunno how precise Bellular is but he said late may to mid June
They want to avoid Diablo release or something
uncut echo
Dunno how precise Bellular is but he said late may to mid June
I'd put exactly zero credibility behind whatever spew he creates
winter gale
Ok
uncut echo
Homie takes a 30 second topic, turns it into 20 minutes for content and does the single most clickbait titles in all of WoW Content creation
To say he's a shill would be disingenuous to shills
dark token
Hi guys I haven't checked out spec channel recently, why are there no pins on the upcoming rogue changes in 10.1
thorn fjord
because the dev team is too busy banging your mom
unreal bear
because the dev team is too busy banging your mom
my mom knows i play rogue, i'm gonna have a stern talk with her
jade abyss
because the dev team is too busy banging your mom
Why so positive?
narrow haven
I heard this is where the doomers hang out?
shadow breach
forgestorm weap prob gonna be huge next season, unless they nerf it to oblivion
uncut echo
Not me but true
MakeItDoom
spice spire
Ye
unreal bear
partly a joke, i had poor uptime because of marks and meteors
uncut echo
Oof
oblique jackal
u can use BP from range btw
unreal bear
yeah i know, i mentally checked out eventually after getting mark or meteor for the umpteenth time
gusty mirage
Go to Off Topic
???? this is off topic
lusty surge
How does meld work in dungeons exactly?
Can I meld into IC garrote easily
Or is it not true stealth
hallow token
Thoughts on a talent on Envenom, maybe to replace AP, that does some sort of AOE on hit, scaled to the # of dots? Maybe more dots, more targets affected? Can be tuned up or down later on damage, number of affected targets, whatever else.
Also, thoughts on dumping CT as a talent and making it baseline? Versus dumping CT completely and adding a talent to put a bleed on FoK? Again, not a damage buff, but if we are going to be forced to be bottom overall it would be nice to not have to work so hard just to be capped at being mediocre.
unreal bear
i am a major advocate for CT baseline
spice spire
Mfs really want ctst
unreal bear
i would also appreciate it if FoK was as consistent as SS at giving CPs.
because getting 2-4cp from FoK most of the time feels pretty fuckin bad
uncut echo
Ctst is so fucking cursed.
uncut echo
because getting 2-4cp from FoK most of the time feels pretty fuckin bad
No ty
unreal bear
i understand the hesitation
but is it really more fun to play the slot machine that is poison bomb procs
unreal bear
but yes CTST sounds fucking miserable
uncut echo
Which is what you do
If it's baseline
So no fucking thanks
Ss bp is why people hate sub
And you're advocating the same here
unreal bear
i don't think FoK being consistent for CP generation is exclusive to CT being baseline
uncut echo
No
I'm saying both ideas are kind of cursed
I'm a bigger advocate of making poisons actually hit hard
By proxy causing FOK to hit like a truck
oak tangle
Can I meld into IC garrote easily
shadowmeld is fake stealth, it may? let you proc ambush, i know it does for shadowstrike on sub, but it will not give you any of the bonuses
uncut echo
Which it should be
oak tangle
heck make poisons erupt or spread like dk then, and make them only applied by mut or fok, need to tweak them a bit then, but they are already kinda expensive
uncut echo
No
uncut echo
Uhhhh
uncut echo
I think Jade has a pair
unreal bear
AV
frail rivet
havent dropped any shoulders to catalyze
unreal bear
might have to find a leather stacked group
frail rivet
even playing with a rogue
oak tangle
how do you propose fok to be useful in it's current state then
unreal bear
how do you propose fok to be useful in it's current state then
his suggestion was buffing poison dmg since poisons applies
oak tangle
bro that is the most afk boring playstyle ever
uncut echo
Sin is afk boring
unreal bear
it's consistent with theming at least
unreal bear
we're a low apm spec, we're just about maintaining dots
unreal bear
the most exciting part of our rotation is the opener
oak tangle
pressing fok has nothing to do with maintenance
there is a difference between having to track things, and afk press a generator
unreal bear
aoe isn't really an active thing unless you're positioning for bleed spreads on sub tho
hard to make aoe interesting or engaging
uncut echo
You're advocating for a replica of sub
oak tangle
i'm advocating for changes for where we press buttons properly we get rewarded
uncut echo
Exactly
unreal bear
and if we're not shining because of raw numbers
the only thing to do is to bump up damage tuning to our existing kit
uncut echo
Buffing poisons is a minor increase to st which helps those who feel we need buffed
And massively amps our aoe
Idk it seems simple
Sinple if you will
And is in flavor
oak tangle
but it literally doesn't solve the problem
buffing CT damage would have the same effect
the issue is that we need to choose between 2 fields
and that choice doesn't give us a great option
sure we buff poisons. we get free aoe damage. but without our other kit being adjusted we will either do no ST or no aoe because it won't at all balance between them with more poison damage
uncut echo
Yeah bud
uncut echo
It's common knowledge our ability to compete in high tier m+ is fucked pending a fundamental class redesign
Buffing poisons gives you both
oak tangle
i mean it would help in the m+ case, but it would gimp our ST to be balanced
uncut echo
No it wouldnt
At all
You seem to think they're fundamentally incapable of tuning more than one spell ID at a time
You can very easily reduce envenom/muta to increase instant/deadly and amp
In the same patch
Giving us a net zero single target or a 1-2% single target while increasing our aoe functionality
And maintaining playstyle
How is that a gimp
unreal bear
was looking at top parses for sin on terros
it does seem kinda funny that poisons are that low on dmg distribution
thorn fjord
Sin channel hard stuck in a loop right now 🤣
spice spire
Always has been
unreal bear
we're doing our rotation
vague widget
The copium has taken hold and there is no exiting the loop.
oak tangle
dm, dtb, envenom, shiv
would all also need to be gimped
or mut / env by themselves would need to be utterly useless for damage, that we'd take fok as a baseline in st to gurantee poison
and idk, i am not in favour of making the spec more afk
and our abilities more and more pointless in favour of a passive
sudden canyon
the most exciting part of our rotation is the opener
every2 mins
uncut echo
The amplification from shiv is not an issue here
A 20% increase to something that is about 10-13% of your total damage
Is a 2-3% buff in single target
Is that not what you want
It reverts one aura nerf pasd and gives us AOE strength
oak tangle
how much do you think poisons have to be buffed to make it competitive for an aoe strength
uncut echo
Sin channel hard stuck in a loop right now 🤣
Loop this 
thorn fjord
uncut echo
A flaming penis, duh
violet talon
I'd rather see Amplifying change to something that "pops" on it's own accord after reaching X number of stacks, rather than pop by enhancing an Envenom. That would also keep it viable in AoE since applications would continue to build through FoK
uncut echo
I'd rather see Amplifying change to something that "pops" on it's own accord aft...
Muh 250k envenom
unreal bear
Whispyr said it best on Marcelian
it's a systemic problem with the spec, not just "aoe is weak, buff crimson tempest"
uncut echo
Correct
sudden canyon
it's a systemic problem with the spec, not just "aoe is weak, buff crimson tempe...
no1 is saying that rn tho
theyre talking about poison dmg. or something
uncut echo
The thing that broke the spec was the nerf to poisons
unreal bear
no1 is saying that rn tho
we were talking about sin's problem
it's not just one thing
which even i conceded
oak tangle
because on council, as AP deadly poison does 7.8% of my damage, to even equal my sub parse, you need to tripple it's damage
unreal bear
so yes i was one of the people saying that "buff aoe" was the solution
sudden canyon
i feel like i see alot of arguments on here and people just end up arguing their own problem and not actually eachother.
unreal bear
we're idiots playing a less-than-desirable spec, we probably lack perspective is all
oak tangle
so without nerfing the other abilities, that puts deadly poison at 21% total damage. but to keep it equal in st we'll lose out, so it'll probably end up with needing to be something on par with 25% of our damaing coming from passive poisons
sudden canyon
I feel like biggest disconnect is from those who present suggestions to overhaul that spec and those that present suggestions that work around the shit-ish talent tree we currently have.
uncut echo
I feel like biggest disconnect is from those who present suggestions to overhaul...
It's not shit tho
sudden canyon
yea im exaggerating.
strange python
Idk why the 10.0 aura nerf just isn't reverted lol
It would take them 30 seconds to implement and we'd still be worse than BM, arms, dk
violet talon
The talent tree is pretty lame compared to a lot of other specs though
unreal bear
the spec isn't very exciting so the tree doesn't really need anything crazy
but it does feel conflicting
oak tangle
that then means, suddenly that 18% buff in total to poisons, im impacted as you said, 3.5% by shiv, 18% during dm. suddenly zoldyk is no joke
unreal bear
with the theming, mastery, etc.
oak tangle
granted it already isnt
unreal bear
do people see zoldyk as a joke?
oak tangle
in that we dont take a 3rd charge
violet talon
I hate that Zoldyk is the gateway to AP instead of DTB/KB
sudden canyon
kb being in the dtb spot after picking up a poison that doesn't replace deadly is kinda dumb you end up with more combat poisons than you can use.
Also you should be able to route into poison bomb without picking up amp poison/
oak tangle
literally just connect scent of blood and zoldyk to the middle
sudden canyon
that env extension talent is complete boring shizz too
sudden canyon
i feel like we wont see rogue changes until we see tier set. I hope not because that makes me worried that theyre designing with the tier set in mind and i feel like the spec should be good standalone, and the tier sets should be there to augment the already good playstyle.
strange python
That would be weird since our tier set isn't super strong and other classes have already gotten ptr notes.
oak tangle
?
strange python
It's truly just a really bizarre communications strategy to not have a comment in the ptr build about "we have plans for assassination and guardian, hold tight"
I fully believe tuning is coming
But it's so stupid to have not foreseen people would be upset
oak tangle
right but that's like his entire point
we wont see tuning until after tier set
so it will be tuned for tier set
not the other way
strange python
Right but that makes no sense
Because there's ptr changes for multiple specs already
oak tangle
but that's what's happening
sudden canyon
thats perfect for blizzard, making no sense.
oak tangle
them having ptr notes for their classes means they have been tuned
sudden canyon
were any of the classes with big changes classes which share a dev team with rogues?
strange python
Pretty sure realz just does rogue and dh
oak tangle
fuu linked the spec representation stats, and it mind boggles me that ret and shadow were picked
strange python
But he went from being really communicative in beta to basically not active here at all since launch
uncut echo
You rework specs with loe playrate
oak tangle
uncut echo
But he went from being really communicative in beta to basically not active here...
Man was actually in here 24/7
It felt incredible to get that level of feedback
oak tangle
3.6% is not low
sudden canyon
he got done with our cooked takes.
strange python
The fact that realz won't even come here to say they have things in the works is kind of jarring
sudden canyon
absolutely broiled takes
oak tangle
there are 2 rogue specs lower than ret's 2.57%
strange python
Sometimes feels like rogue as a class is punished for having the best theorycrafters.
dull cloak
ret players 
strange python
Providing sims and APLs for the public seems to just get us into trouble
strange python
Meanwhile boomies and hunters and mages and locks do degenerate shit with their sims every tier and they're rewarded
sudden canyon
Isnt an APL required for simming. do other classes not having public apls?>
sudden canyon
so they just dont have good apls?
strange python
Warlocks haven't had a functional APL in time for a raid in years
Boomies are just full-blown degenerates
sudden canyon
so how do warlocks interpret sims if thier APL is untrust
strange python
Whispyr and fuu and seli and koji and all the TCs spend hours fine tuning the rogue apl so that we're basically sorted the day raid hits, and we're punished for it
Warlock sims have been sus for years
tacit otter
so how do warlocks interpret sims if thier APL is untrust
they feelcraft real good
sudden canyon
they just like me fr
strange python
There's been tinfoil hat rumors of high end warlocks have their own APL
I don't necessarily believe that. But for the rumors to exist tells you how bad they are
tacit otter
even if, that would be absolutely pathetic
sudden canyon
yea i dont beleive that wf raiding locks just use the supposedly jank apl
uncut echo
tells me why assass is dumpstered
He's allowed to have fun in other channels
oak tangle
right, but the spec that is currently the least featured of the three has not had a peep in it
sudden canyon
He's allowed to have fun in other channels
they fr got 1 dude for 5 specs. oof. broke ass company or cheap ass company? or both?
oak tangle
the last 2 things he's said in this channel was that other classes are more jealous of assass than assass is of sub
strange python
I mean that isn't that many specs for one dev and he has a team
sudden canyon
oh he has a team
vestal wren
Isnt an APL required for simming. do other classes not having public apls?>
the apl is part of simc (the program that runs in the background on raidbots)
sudden canyon
i thought it was just homie by his lonesome.
strange python
The primary issue, imo, is that we couldn't even get a 5% aura buff.
vestal wren
a "private" apl would be just a apl that has improvements that are not pushed to the mainline
thorn fjord
Is it even possible to keep those private
strange python
It would take virtually zero dev resources to give us a flat 5% buff and we should have had one.
sudden canyon
the apl is part of simc (the program that runs in the background on raidbots)
yea im aware. thats why i thought the apl were all public. but it seems like they are and just some classes/spec have modified apls and rogue ones are made available to the public/simc while other arent
thorn fjord
Nm I guess yeah
vestal wren
apl is maintained/implemented by people in their free time
uncut echo
they fr got 1 dude for 5 specs. oof. broke ass company or cheap ass company? or ...
That's not uncommon.
vestal wren
so quality will depend on who writes/maintains it, how much time people can put into it, etc.
shy mica
!wa
prisma monolithBOT
Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)
vestal wren
we as rogeus just like the idea of having information out there
this is why we try to have apl/etc as public as possible
sudden canyon
yall just theory craft the apl and then trail&error run sims to compare them and see whats best?
vestal wren
we also ahve the #1065728795455266888 , #1065730164077645916 and #1065730004920586350 channel
that can have apl changes or experiments that are not in baseline
neon kindle
:3
strange python
I like having our info public and rigorously tested. But it sure seems to bite us in the ass
vestal wren
Bad
it is actually the best, it is why people can put more trust into us and helps develop the apl by giving everyone as much access as possible to information
strange python
I think it just bothers me that blizzard keeps falling for "we sim like shit buff us" from classes who have historically failed to do their sims properly.
neon kindle
Think we're gona get a talent tree rework?
strange python
Issue isn't the rogue TCs. It's blizzard falling for hunter and warlock bullshit. Every tier.
vestal wren
i am not a big fan of hiding information even tho some community members might think it would be benefitial going from how blizz handled the 10.0.x balancing cycle
tacit otter
when patreon for theorycrafters?
oak sky
Think we're gona get a talent tree rework?
Doubt it
strange python
Blizzard balancing with hunters and warlocks is like charlie and the football
vestal wren
when patreon for theorycrafters?
no, we won't gatekeep information ^^
if anything, i think the best thing would be if we managed to get more information
oak tangle
there's enough gatekeeping of info from bliz's tooltips already
tacit otter
more like supporting the people doing that in their free time:)
vestal wren
so that balancing decisions can either be justified, understood or called complete BS
sudden canyon
i am not a big fan of hiding information even tho some community members might t...
yea but, did that happen because people had open access to modify the apl or because the apl that you guys tc'ed was already good. Because if its not public and you just are just making a solid APL only available to use on simc/raidbots every patch cycle. wouldnt it be the same thing.
oak tangle
we should branch out and start running the APLS for other classes
vestal wren
atm the only changes we see and rightfully complain about are the very obviouse mistakes
oak sky
Even just for the buns spec?
Maybe some small changes but i dont have any faith in big changes
strange python
I really don't think the sin tree is that bad
vestal wren
yea but, did that happen because people had open access to modify the apl or bec...
having more advancements in apl does mean you have more information about strengh, rotation etc.
strange python
I think it's fine for sin to have a primarily single target niche. Lots of specs have niches. My issue is that it isn't even that good at st
vestal wren
we can't link simulations with anything
neon kindle
RiP Poison bomb build
sudden canyon
RiP Poison bomb build
this is what i want. lemme take AP + IC + poison bomb
neon kindle
this is what i want. lemme take AP + IC + poison bomb
No no, i want a full on build around it
uncut echo
<:Okay:1068635818345889923>
strange python
People liked the sin tree when our damage wasn't shit lol
oak sky
Its always had its issues
oak tangle
i like the sin tree in isolation, that isolation being other classes / specs not having to choose between aoe and st
sudden canyon
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/316923750073499648/1078380349232...
carefull youll get chastised here for promoting sin changes/ideas that havent been approved the the Sin council.
neon kindle
carefull youll get chastised here for promoting sin changes/ideas that havent b...
Already ran it by the gods. Its been aproved
sudden canyon
or maybe ppl are just really blunt about things they dont like
neon kindle
i like the sin tree in isolation, that isolation being other classes / specs not...
Funny how sin is the only one out of the three that has to chose
gloomy knoll
thorn fjord
I'll say it again
Till im blue in the face
Get rid of RC and replace it with Unity
oak tangle
Ap is a great idea, IC is a great idea, dtb.. well i mean it does good damage boring af. buttttt, they are all so polarising that you can't do aoe with out no ST
runic hinge
make ic apply improved garrote
vestal wren
yea but, did that happen because people had open access to modify the apl or bec...
basically, the big assumption is, that having more information accessible to more people as soon as possible will make people perform better in the raid. Classes that had the complete opposite happen did perform rly bad initially but over time seemed to catch up. Given that blizz seemingly tunes on early data and community perception you can impact both by not having good support in simc up to the point tuning phases are over.
this is what the entire apl/TC discussion is about
oak sky
make ic apply improved garrote
It does
neon kindle
Get rid of RC and replace it with Unity
Whats RC again?
strange python
This is like, the 5th tier in a row where it's happened though
thorn fjord
Whats RC again?
Reprimanding Clarity
gloomy knoll
Whats RC again?
It’s a cola
sudden canyon
Okay. So did they nerf based on simmilated numbers only or where rogues actually outperforming in practice
thorn fjord
Er resounding*
neon kindle
It’s a cola
I like this answer
thorn fjord
My phone is cool
oak tangle
echoing reprimand / resouding clarity, kyrian bs on class tree
vestal wren
Okay. So did they nerf based on simmilated numbers only or where rogues actually...
hard to say, the problem rly is communication
thorn fjord
So if we swap RC with Unity it opens up some more options with the other Cov Abilities so it can benefit all 3 specs
oak tangle
what do we put where sbs is
vestal wren
people are just angry because there are 2 classes that had information hidden and tier profiles seemingly on purpose way worse to appear rly bad
and they got buffed
sudden canyon
Time to embrace the rogue role play and go stealth.
vestal wren
so there is now a problem for blizz, becuase if handling things this way is the way to get buffs or seemingly inconsistent tuning it incentivises this rather toxic practice and leads to a bad feedback cycle
oak sky
Hunter literally just does bullshit
strange python
Sorta yep
oak sky
They pasted a simc profile without the bow
strange python
Hunters and warlocks are the usual poster children for scummy sim behavior that gets them unnecessarily buffed.
oak tangle
i mean you can also just neglect to balance for a special effect weapon that drops from the last boss
sudden canyon
Yea that’s pretty unfortunate that they inadvertently discouraging open feedback and theory crafting
vestal wren
it isn't only about apl
sudden canyon
Open theory crafting at least p
vestal wren
some positive bugs did get abused on private logs and only now got publically mentioned/stated
royal lantern
blizzard doesnt care about the apl
the problem with bad apl is more like
bad apl=low sims most of the time
low sims=people say spec is weak
people say that=community perception turns into "X is weak, buff"
and then they complain that X is weak until it gets buffed
the APL itself doesnt matter, they dont look at sims and balanced around that lol
thorn fjord
Wouldnt they have their own internal way to sim specs and such?
And if they did they wouldnt share it with us
royal lantern
Wouldnt they have their own internal way to sim specs and such?
nobody knows
and why would they share
thorn fjord
It would be a bad idea to do so imo
gloomy knoll
It’s also just access to information
strange python
If blizzard has their own internal sims they must be awful
oak tangle
do you think that any part of sin getting nerfed week 1 had to do with the traditional haste scaling we had in pretty much all previous tiers, and they were worried we would just blow up
thorn fjord
But if they do have something like that i wonder what their numbers look like
vestal wren
well bad tc/apl/information flow has several downsides:
#1 less informed players, so rotational details that could lead to higher performance or talent choices that are superior might not be known
#2 power level and gearing information get falsified
#3 bugs don't get fixed, esp. if they are beneficial, but abused by a very small subset of players
royal lantern
do you think that any part of sin getting nerfed week 1 had to do with the tradi...
scaling is a meme
scaling is a thing that doesnt exist
and assa has no "insane haste scaling" lol
like, its fking dragonflight anyway
secondarys are ridicolously inflated
its the first tier and you can have 40%crit if you go for it
if "scaling" would be a thing and matter, the point is allready reached lol
thorn fjord
yeah and still have an insane amount of mastery with 40% crit
royal lantern
blizz doing the week1 rogue nerfs was a kneejerk reaction
they saw big numbers and went panic mode
vestal wren
depending on how systems work in DF
strange python
Rogues weren't even that far ahead week 1...
vestal wren
i don't want to say it, but scaling might not be a meme
strange python
Sin was less ahead in week 1 than the top specs are now
royal lantern
when the reality was more like "rogue was allready somewhat optimized, so people pulled out more and did higher numbers"
many many specs and classes didnt even had 100%working sims and stuff
so they pulled way lower 
vestal wren
there is another thing to heroic week one data
royal lantern
^ aswell
vestal wren
the problem might be that some classes/specs need a bit of gear, tier set or even specific items to get strong
so over time, balancing changes
you can look at balence now
strange python
I remember this discord calling me a doomer for not liking the "fast pace of tuning" and that we would surely get buffs if the nerfs were overboard
strange python
Shit seli went off on me for not believing we would get buffs if we wound up bad.
uncut echo
:3
vestal wren
heroic is a lot more about single target, and hence assassination is strong
mythic has a lot of mixed fights also with aoe where assassinaiton struggles
strange python
Heroic also has shorter kill times. Sin does lots of damage on pull with lust
vestal wren
raid design is a key factor in the wcl raid statistic
vestal wren
Heroic also has shorter kill times. Sin does lots of damage on pull with lust
that too
strange python
I can accept raid design impacting overall stats. I can't accept sin being where it is on terros given the specs design.
And shit, it would probably be lower than frost and spriest if they didn't have to constantly run around and cancel casts
oak tangle
i'm confused as to why you guys say we never had haste scaling. the spec literally used to always feel dogshit until we had so much. and by the end of tier's xpacs were were climbing back
vestal wren
sin is top 5
uncut echo
People want it top 1
strange python
5th by a large margin is bad
sudden canyon
All the sin rogues are relegated to heroic, mythic team makes them run sub. change my mind.
uncut echo
¯_(ツ)_/¯
uncut echo
All the sin rogues are relegated to heroic, mythic team makes them run sub. chan...
I'm literally 5/8m on sin
sudden canyon
change my mind.
royal lantern
All the sin rogues are relegated to heroic, mythic team makes them run sub. chan...
nah, in heroic people just pad on adds, and assa cant do that so they just stay boss lol
vestal wren
All the sin rogues are relegated to heroic, mythic team makes them run sub. chan...
don't think thats the case
royal lantern
thats it
uncut echo
I did
slim hamlet
Will the kick duration nerf destroy us. Is it worth rerolling?
uncut echo
Will the kick duration nerf destroy us. Is it worth rerolling?
Huh?
sudden canyon
Will the kick duration nerf destroy us. Is it worth rerolling?
oh good luck all the other kicks were nerfed as well
strange python
sin is top 5
Sin is a good bit behind those other four, and it's barely ahead of the next three after it iirc
royal lantern
like, broodkeeper alone puts assa way higher cus they will NEVER do adds on broodkeeper and just slam boss
uncut echo
Same with dathea
slim hamlet
oh good luck all the other kicks were nerfed as well
So just reroll to a non-int class is BIS?
uncut echo
Sin just hits dathea
vestal wren
Sin is a good bit behind those other four, and it's barely ahead of the next thr...
there is a bit of a distance
but yes, it does not "stand out" as much as you migth assume
strange python
Those specs are closer to sin than sin is to BM
And most of those specs have viable AoE
royal lantern
i still like how people say assa does way more st then sub when most top10 boss dmg logs on broodkeeper are sub rogues
and the #1 assa has PI
thorn fjord
Sin just hits dathea
Unless you get early deaths then you’re doing platform 3
royal lantern
strange python
I mean same for dk and arms. They're very far ahead
uncut echo
Unless you get early deaths then you’re doing platform 3
I still dont go
Fuck them
In half
slim hamlet
Wait I stopped playing after the bm buffs, did they actually give them that big aura buff?
thorn fjord
But when that happens you get to parse
slim hamlet
Like to live servers
royal lantern
Wait I stopped playing after the bm buffs, did they actually give them that big ...
yes
thorn fjord
I still dont go
Your parse tho
slim hamlet
No shot
strange python
Terros is also definitely hiding the fact that frost mage and spriest would be up there I'd not for the movement.
uncut echo
But when that happens you get to parse
Any real guild doesnt give a shit about parse
I want boss dead
vestal wren
i still like how people say assa does way more st then sub when most top10 boss ...
if you change metric to boss damage, assassinaiton is 100% ahead of sub
for all bosses
thats simple a consequence of subtlety not staying boss as much as assassinaiton
unavoidable
thorn fjord
Even if they did they would still be lower though
royal lantern
Even if they did they would still be lower though
the difference on pure st bettwen sub and assa is really low
vestal wren
Even if they did they would still be lower though
it depends, subtlety can, if well palyed, on multiple fights use additional ressources to funnel
royal lantern
people act as if assa does 10%more st dmg by default
vestal wren
it sounds stupid
strange python
The only reason the first sin boss dam log is ahead on brood is PI. Otherwise its equally sub and sin.
vestal wren
but e.g. spider
royal lantern
when in reality its like 500 sim dps lol
thorn fjord
I wasn’t saying 10%
vestal wren
you can get slightly higher st if your raid allows slight funnel from adds
strange python
Does wcl stats page funnel out PI?
vestal wren
you can iirc
strange python
I'd bet if you removed all external logs from terros sin and sub would be equal.
vestal wren
but not on the statistic
prisma monolithBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz
thorn fjord
How many groups are there not running UH or Demo tho
sudden canyon
when yall check logs. why is it never 50th percentile if you want to get an idea for the avg player raider?
thorn fjord
Because they should be getting the PI lol
vestal wren
strange python
Sin pi is much closer to demo than people realize.
oak tangle
whilst it may feel shit to have to include pi, you should
earnest remnant
the gap between sub and sin isn't that big in pure st
thats actually funny, its reflected on Terros, top no external assa is 1k ahead of sub
thorn fjord
Which is what high 70k?
vestal wren
#goodsims confirmed
earnest remnant
93.4k vs 92.4k
thorn fjord
Oh damn
sudden canyon
would you say its easer for sin to hit that cieling
thorn fjord
Meant closer to 80
sudden canyon
than the sub st rotation
thorn fjord
I think it is
oak tangle
my pleb ass is at 83k
thorn fjord
But my brain already naturally flows with the sin rotation
sudden canyon
< asking sin chat if they find sin easier
thorn fjord
My best terros pull has only been 78k
oak tangle
sub is easier to do ok, sin is easier to do well
thorn fjord
No erranog ring tho
vestal wren
would you say its easer for sin to hit that cieling
you def. can get punished fairly hard by playing subtlety bad
if thats the question
royal lantern
< asking sin chat if they find sin easier
i mean, spec channels will always tell you that THEIR spec is the hardest 
sudden canyon
yea. i think my actual question is, how much should balancing be affected by top performers.
oak tangle
fuck no, outlaw is cooked
sudden canyon
thats why i asked why no1 looks at 50th percent logs to get an idea for how the avg raider is performing.
instead of the practical* max.
oak tangle
top performers set the average though, through proxy of things like fotm
sudden canyon
they set the meta. i dont think they set the avg performance
thorn fjord
Yeah
formal ore
thats why i asked why no1 looks at 50th percent logs to get an idea for how the ...
because if u do that u balance a class based on how difficult it is to play
and then top performers beat the shit out of everything
sudden canyon
good point.
well. id say top performers "could" beat the shit out of everything. granted if the spec was tuned to 50th percent but had a high skill cap and respective dmg
royal lantern
and then top performers beat the shit out of everything
and then it gets nerfed
formal ore
and then it gets nerfed
yup
gusty mirage
and then it gets nerfed
giggles in destro warlock
royal lantern
"high skill cap" classes should be more versatile
formal ore
gets a 20% buff cause of bad players
sudden canyon
but this is healing evoker rn.
royal lantern
*giggles in destro warlock*
they talked about high skillcap classes
formal ore
50% nerf afterwards lol
oak tangle
class A does 110k, class B does 100k
suddenly a whole bunch of people go hey look class A is good have to play it.
they play is mediocre cause they don't know what they're doing
class A's average drops
class A gets buffed
class A is called hunter
gusty mirage
royal lantern
FIXED IT 
gloomy knoll
Get it right
formal ore
and sometimes they have to press havoc
insane
thorn fjord
@gusty mirage I’m so jealous of DK on raz
Dude just sits there on boss living his best life
gloomy knoll
Sin on 3 targets in melee vs destro
sudden canyon
gloomy knoll
Destro harder on god
vestal wren
i mean, spec channels will always tell you that THEIR spec is the hardest <:drac...
rogues will always say that one of the other specs is the easiest and that the spec they like is the hardest
limpid ermine
yea. i think my actual question is, how much should balancing be affected by top...
I mean this is an issue in almost every game. Overwatch heros got nerfed due to pro play. Unfortunately just how it is
thorn fjord
https://tenor.com/view/sweaty-speedruner-gif-20263880
Me after eating too much spicy curry
sudden canyon
Me after eating too much spicy curry
thai or indian?
oak tangle
there is nothing wrong with imbalance.
there is alot wrong with consistent trends of imbalance
thorn fjord
thai or indian?
Thai
sudden canyon
mm coconut curry
thorn fjord
Add all the spice to my masaman plz
gaunt moat
rogues will always say that one of the other specs is the easiest and that the s...
Not true, i think sub is too complicated 🥲 (i also know nothing about it. is that relevant?)
formal ore
Not true, i think sub is too complicated 🥲 (i also know nothing about it. is th...
right macros and its pretty simple
vague widget
Sub when I tried it was only fun with big sectech crits, but I practically have two left feet for it. Lol
vestal wren
Not true, i think sub is too complicated 🥲 (i also know nothing about it. is th...
<insert storm + bp meme>
oak tangle
if assassin wasn't trash aoe every single expac and tier for so long, i don't think there would be so much complaint about being nerfed from the top ST
royal lantern
rogues will always say that one of the other specs is the easiest and that the s...
can confirm
sub is only gloomblade->evisc until dance, then its shadowstrike->evisc
outlaw is ambush and glowy button when it glows
assa is 200000IQ CD preperation and having near perfect dot uptime 
assa is cleary the hardest spec
if you think otherwise, you are a dirty sub/outlaw 1 trick
sudden canyon
i think sub is harder to get right for sure. but i think that spec is very rythm based. once you get the muscle memory down its okay. Sin feels harder to maintain dmg on sometimes.
then again i havent played sub this xpac
so
vestal wren
learned somehting new today
gaunt moat
I do think Sin has really really really complicated opener right now of 24 buttons sequence.
sudden canyon
DELETE SND 
oak tangle
sin has like 40 years to correct mistakes and reapply dots, sub punishes you if you do one gcd wrong
gaunt moat
so true
vestal wren
if people could make 30+ button cast sequences in Legion for subtlety, you can do the same for assassinaiton in DF
thorn fjord
Sub is just learning the prio and muscle memory
thorn fjord
I gotta spruce up my sub macros
formal ore
I gotta spruce up my sub macros
dont do that
it'll feel brain dead and u will never want to play it again
royal lantern
just make a 24 button cast sequence
big brain
gaunt moat
And I think outlaw is really simple.
but I need more fingers to play it.
thorn fjord
it'll feel brain dead and u will never want to play it again
Brain dead let’s me focus on mechanics during prog
sudden canyon
i dont think ill ever enjoy sub if it doesnt have DFA
thorn fjord
So I don’t get yelled at for being an amoebae
oak tangle
And I think outlaw is really simple.
but I need more fingers to play it.
i have enough fingers, sadly i no longer have enough synapses
gaunt moat
haha
formal ore
And I think outlaw is really simple.
but I need more fingers to play it.
try changing up keybinds to be near wasd
that helped me A LOT
sudden canyon
should i re-free up my s key. i rebound it coz blizz keeps putting in fights where you have to backpedal and attack something infront of u
oak tangle
i wasn't born after 2000, can't play outlaw
gaunt moat
i wasn't even before after 1990 🥲
oak tangle
there goes my synapse not firing
uncut echo
96 boomer here
gaunt moat
27 year olds are boomers now?
sudden canyon
im also from the 19-hundreds
its weird that 1900's is the 20th century, but 2000's is the 21st
gaunt moat
real life picture of me trying to play outlaw
thorn fjord
87 boomer here
feral rivet
82...
sudden canyon
64
oak tangle
its weird that 1900's is the 20th century, but 2000's is the 21st
even more so considering the whole realm of BC existed
formal ore
year 2000 here...
gaunt moat
year 2000 here...
and you're the only one playing outlaw... coincidence? 🤔
feral rivet
im so old i find it absolutely baffling that there are people born in 2000s that are "adults"
formal ore
and you're the only one playing outlaw... coincidence? 🤔
i dont play outlaw
oak tangle
try it before you can't
formal ore
i played it for a while but i dont like dice
thorn fjord
Pre patch OL was god tier
gaunt moat
for me it was just impossible to concentrate on the actual enemies and also on procs and buffs
formal ore
and its annoying having to gear up for 2 different specs since outlaw prioritizes different stats
oak tangle
im sure in reality it's not so bad, but in order to get to the point of familiarity with it is impossible with how much is immediately thrown at you
feral rivet
Pre patch OL was god tier
Pre which patch? The one that a lot of ppl complained bigtime about but was actually a buff or something earlier?
formal ore
its like having an alt inside your main character
thorn fjord
Pre which patch? The one that a lot of ppl complained bigtime about but was actu...
DF pre patch
gaunt moat
im sure in reality it's not so bad, but in order to get to the point of familiar...
yeah, eventually you can get used to anything. but some will adapt quicker.
feral rivet
Oh when you said pre patch and not pre-patch i thought you meant it as in "before xxxx patch"
thorn fjord
Running DB with unity flag and still having BB was so sick
formal ore
if u dont mind the leveling i find leveling up with a spec makes it waay easier to play it
feral rivet
yeah it was good
oak tangle
if u dont mind the leveling i find leveling up with a spec makes it waay easier ...
rogue was my first class, in BFA prepatch, i levelled as assassin, do not recommend
formal ore
lol
gaunt moat
I said it before
but I just don't get why doesn't outlaw have a UI element for opportunity procs, like sin's blinside. just so weird.
oak tangle
but it was the closest playstyle to ESO nightblade
formal ore
I said it before
but I just don't get why doesn't outlaw have a UI element for o...
outlaw is weird af
nothing fits in that spec
just take it off the game and make another one
no one will notice
oak tangle
i have a feeling that is being addressed for 10.1
void mesa
Make outlaw have a gun as a weapon instead of using pistols with half their skills
oak tangle
with the class resource rework they said
gaunt moat
I don't agree with that.. just sayin' it should have UI element for proc. it's so simple.
oak tangle
"Updated special resource art and animations for the following classes:
Arcane Mage
Death Knight
Feral Druid
Windwalker Monk
Paladin
Rogue
Warlock"
sudden canyon
they get little rawr xD claw
unreal bear
"Updated special resource art and animations for the following classes:
Arcane M...
is that regarding our combo points
oak tangle
sadly i am not a default ui gamer, but they are at least making strides
sudden canyon
i am.
formal ore
i think about going back to the default ui sometimes
but speeds ui is too clean to ignore
gaunt moat
my favorite part about the feral one, is when the CP disappears it goes up in smoke.
you know what class that would fit even better? 🙃
oak tangle
they should shake and distort when sub presses sec tec, and puff into smoke on SnD
unreal bear
sadly i am not a default ui gamer, but they are at least making strides
SUF doesn't track animacharged, which isn't a big deal with WA
but i like redundancy
so i use default
oak tangle
i like elvui cause i can customise it how i like, and with other addons and weakuaras that i use it lets the theme be consistent
gaunt moat
I feel like seeing CPs in small dots under the healthbar is just not ideal.
you want to to be front and center, and big.
so end of the day, WA is always better for me
nocturne current
https://d176jfkp3gfyt8.cloudfront.net/original/1X/5002b2b298a43ea2f2426b6446680f...
The rogue one is different?
nocturne current
Oh cool, thanks notter
oak tangle
I feel like seeing CPs in small dots under the healthbar is just not ideal.
you ...
for instance i have cp's 1 through 4 in one colour and 5-6 another so it's easy to tell if i should finisher or not
gaunt moat
yeah
sudden canyon
for instance i have cp's 1 through 4 in one colour and 5-6 another so it's easy ...
wdym you just count from the end.
if 2 are unfilled you have 4cp (5 in this case)
gaunt moat
Oh cool, thanks notter
Push was the one who published, but you're welcome 🙂
sudden canyon
same i use base ui, and the 5&6th cp are right in my periphs
if i see them lit i know i can send
and the ER cps are blue so theyre easy to see
im in need of a wa ui overhaul tho. my current system doesnt work well with all the buttons we have now
oak tangle
i mean if it works it works, alot of my wow experience is tailored towards making it as much like ESO as possible
sudden canyon
wow was my first/main mmo so im used to seeing the default ui combo points
the neural connections are all there
oak tangle
the very first thing i did was rebind a and d to strafe not turn
second thing was download a ui mod
sudden canyon
since they reworked the ui think the only ui mods i have are WA and some addons to add aditional features to the base ui edit mode
storm belfry
ESO has a p ugly UI
oak tangle
i used FTC addon in that
gaunt moat
wow was my first/main mmo so im used to seeing the default ui combo points
Any Raganrok Online 🧓🏻 here?
brazen zodiac
o.o
balmy condor
spice spire
Something something Exsang complaint
uncut echo
Something something Exsang complaint
gaunt moat
They don't want to upset pvp meta, so maybe they'll remove exsang 12.0 
thorn fjord
Pasta god sounds delicious
I’ve been in my car the last hour… just took a 20 min nap
gaunt moat
self dox
thorn fjord
I’m at the point with work where I don’t care
Fiancé just got a huge raise and she wants me to go part time lol
gaunt moat
That's awesome 🙂
thorn fjord
It is we’re very lucky
copper hazel
Fiancé just got a huge raise and she wants me to go part time lol
the dream
house husband ezlyfe
brazen zodiac
viscid spear
uncut echo
Do u need changes
thorn fjord
Do u need changes
Wake up in the morning and i ask myself is life worth living or should i blast myself
Im tired of being poor and even worse im black my stomach hurts so im looking for another purse to snatch
🎶
uncut echo
Wake up in the morning and i ask myself is life worth living or should i blast m...
HUH
marble hemlock
mage got like
5 separate changes already
since release
arcane the only mage spec that didnt really get anything
marble hemlock
fire got 2 separate buffs
one aura one to a bunch of spells
frost buff as well
arcane didnt get shit tho
wary ice
Is there 10.07 Rouge changes?
oak sky
no
wary ice
Or if we're talking 10.1 is there 10.1 rogue changes
oak sky
also no
wary ice
Pog
steel ridge
wary ice
strange python
I remember when half this channel flamed me for saying that the 10.0 nerfs were overboard and we probably wouldn't get buffed quickly like mages and hunters
balmy condor
I remember when half this channel flamed me for saying that the 10.0 nerfs were ...
I remember asking if you're having a good day
strange python
I remember asking if you're having a good day
I probably said no
balmy condor
oh okay
viscid spear
They need to rework Frost
uncut echo
They need to rework Frost <:starege:923197272064426075>
False, intro ranged spec go brr
viscid spear
I don't like Ice Lance being 50% of your damage
strange python
Is it just give up and go spriest angle
balmy condor
Is it just give up and go spriest angle
but they'll rework it again
viscid spear
Have a pic of mine judging you
strange python
But it's always strong AF after every rework
uncut echo
But it's always strong AF after every rework
Premiere dot class
Mind smooth feels like stealth
:3
strange python
Spriest unironically complains every single tier and winds up insane every tier
oak sky
i think like
if the only thing they did was combine mind spike and mind flay
from current live priest
its a pretty great spec
gaunt moat
Let's cat it up
uncut echo
sudden canyon
uncut echo
if the only thing they did was combine mind spike and mind flay
Hear me out. Mind melt proc condenses mind flay cast time like it did for mindblast on mind blast cast
And increases damage
thorn fjord
Is it just give up and go spriest angle
Give up and go UH tbh
strange python
Couldn't do unholy for same reason I couldn't do arms
I'd hate relying on an external
wary ice
Feral Friday in #assassination
strange python
Ferals a good idea...could get 3k io for free playing guardian or resto
oak sky
Hear me out. Mind melt proc condenses mind flay cast time like it did for mindbl...
i dont have a problem with mind flay as a channel actually i think its fine to have differing playstyles for high and low movement
strange python
And get feral gear through tanking
uncut echo
I'd hate relying on an external
Become the external, based
wary ice
Ferals a good idea...could get 3k io for free playing guardian or resto
Feral fucks in aoe ngl
Guardian is ass tho innit?
wary ice
True and real
strange python
Guardian kinda sucks at high keys but can just press W through 20s
oak sky
well its a tank
copper hazel
gang gang
royal lantern
swap mage and rogue
100% was made by a mage, what do you expect lol
viscid spear
100% was made by a mage, what do you expect lol
It's just for 10.1 really, Frost Mage is in need of a fresh restart
Our dev (if there is one) just slaps % buffs on things and goes home
Like Glacial Spike, a spell that cannot and will not work with Frost's current setup, continues to exist because the dev doesn't grasp the concept of why the spell contrasts with the intended playstyle
royal lantern
Our dev (if there is one) just slaps % buffs on things and goes home
aka, like assa
viscid spear
Frost is entirely a sustained dps spec, and excels in 2T-cleave better than almost any class, but doesn't bring much else that can't already be brought by the other 2 specs
viscid spear
Like Mythic Eranog? We just go ST.
viscid spear
except the "excels in something" part
Soon you and the rest of the class will excel at literally stabbing the rest of the raid in the back. 
Sometimes I'm glad I switched off to Mage 
uncut echo
Me explaining getting back stabbed is super cool to my RL after they bench me for an overtuned mechanic
runic hinge
I can’t wait to keep a kill counter for each one of my guild mates and keep a leaderboard in our discord
royal lantern
Sometimes I'm glad I switched off to Mage <:Trashpandascheme:1082778449015480330...
🐀
viscid spear
Champion, you will now randomly explode for no reason several times in a short period of time. Now kill that ghost dragon.
gaunt moat
@viscid spearThat's a lot of cats. that's like.. double my cats.
viscid spear
That's only half of them
viscid spear
and are the rest also this fat?
That's just Luna, we don't know why she's so big, her brother's the same way
sudden canyon
sin m+ would be okay if you could take pb with the AP+IC build. lukewarm take.
coz then you have a reason to press env
oak jolt
What poison combination to use? for m+
royal lantern
crazy cat person confirmed
oak jolt
dp + ap, crip + atroph/numbing
Thanks also what's dtb? just started rogue.
thorn fjord
Only crazy if the cats are on the street
thorn fjord
Thanks also what's dtb? just started rogue.
Dragon tempered@blades
oak jolt
Ty
shy mica
When doing a garrote opener and then doing snd > garrote again, dont I ruin the empowered garrote?
I don't fully understand it
And is there any target count where we stop spreading rupture?
silk bane
I don't fully understand it
after stealth your first 3 gcds count towards empowered garrote. by doing garrote snd garrote youre maximizing empowered garrote pandemic window. as for rupture, once the ER ruptures from IC have expired I kinda just rupture when i actually need energy mostly
thorn fjord
And is there any target count where we stop spreading rupture?
Think the target count is 4
balmy condor
And is there any target count where we stop spreading rupture?
you stop spreading rupture when you have enough energy
it's not a target count thing
it's an energy thing
if you don't have energy, you use another rupture
gusty mirage
But it's always strong AF after every rework
someone forgets their last mid expac reworks
shy mica
you stop spreading rupture when you have enough energy
Fair enough, havent reached max yet on rogue. But was a bit rusty, this sounds pretty logical
Also: i nthe rotation it says "you can consider using tempest as spender on 6+". Is this like literally "consider" or is envenom still good due to poison bomb?
silk bane
@balmy condor, what about an itneraction like this, crimson tempest works as is now, but if you already have the CT bleed on the target, it instead increases your garrote and rupture duration on the targets. and Envenom gets a talent where when you Envenom, it reduces garrote rupture and CT duration by 'x' seconds and deals the damage instantly to all targets.
just let me cook
im up to something
balmy condor
Also: i nthe rotation it says "you can consider using tempest as spender on 6+"....
yeah
the aoe rotation
is such a mess
that you can actually just spam CT
or spam envenom
and they do basically the same
I think best practice would be to just maintain both CT and envenom
and after that just press whatever