assassination

[broken stump]

Just whacked some dummies for a bit and it makes a little more sense than it did an hour ago. Is there a straightforward way to gear alts at the moment? Doesn't look like crafting is worth it without training matrices

[magic vine]

you can order uh, up to 392 gear with sparks even without the primal infusions. the storm gear upgrades to 385 and in the off-slots is quite good

the primal event in the bronze dragonflight area has some decent rings/trinkets you can work up to, and if you're bored the cobalt ring is pretty strong

[broken stump]

What would the best 5 things to craft be?

Ah so for rogue it’s cowl and then use the other 4 slots for tier?

[thorn fjord]

Cowl/lariat

[velvet haven]

Correct you cannot

[broken stump]

Sounds good - I’ll do that thanks

[magic vine]

getting the 385 primal for 2 minor slots is very strong, it holds up until you have like 405 replacements or so?

[thorn fjord]

@limber lion qq for your plater I know the names change with sbs

How would it interact in other specs

Playe just stays the same color?

Plate

[limber lion]

name changes?

[thorn fjord]

Like doesn’t it go green when sbs is applied

[limber lion]

I mean yeah the plater turns green if you use sbs on it

and won't go green if you don't

[thorn fjord]

Ok figured

[limber lion]

doesn't matter which spec you play

it just checks whether target has sbs on it or not

[thorn fjord]

Would I be able to duplicate that line for bte?

To turn green when that’s up

[limber lion]

yeh

just duplicate the script and change the id

[sweet dawn]

Does shiv apply a buffed atrophic poison aswell as crippling or no ?

[oblique jackal]

Orc or BE

help help

or Maghar

[limber lion]

be

[thorn fjord]

Cow

Always cow

[balmy condor]

No

[sweet dawn]

Goblin, for that scooby doo ahh animation

[royal lantern]

@oblique jackal whatever the fuck you want

if you cant decide, do the good old coin toss

[thorn fjord]

Wrong the answer is cow

[spice spire]

It’s definitely vulpera

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

[slow marsh]

Kiss ass

❤️

[spice spire]

?

Bro are you at home in your potato yet?

Damn

[slow marsh]

I'm in my potatomobile right now

Waiting for my Hawaiian food with a side of potato

[spice spire]

Nice

[slow marsh]

How's work going

[spice spire]

It’s Monday

[royal lantern]

hahahhaahhahaha i love monday

🙂

[unreal bear]

surprised how few assassination rogues there are doing m+

[gaunt moat]

We exists. there are dozens of us.

[unreal bear]

i think i get invited solely because people assume im sub

[gaunt moat]

yap, riding on the sub wave

only once someone checked my spec and kicked me

[thorn fjord]

I can’t be the only jerk left running OL in keys

My guildies are now saying I’m inting not playing sub

I hate this community

[fallow canopy]

Sin or bust

[steel ridge]

your guildies are morons then

[unreal bear]

im the #1 rated sin on my server, but 17th overall

[gusty mirage]

we hate you too

[echo heath]

I enjoy blasting as sin in muh plus, surprises people when you outburst them on big pulls

[steel ridge]

thats what it is, burst

but you aint got no means to sustain it

[echo heath]

trinkets help with that

[steel ridge]

how do trinkets help with the "garrote is only 18 seconds and has 6 seconds cd" part?

[echo heath]

keeps my damage competitive throughout the dungeon since they dont always line up with IC

[steel ridge]

thats some high level copium

relying on trinkets to keep your party rolling?

[echo heath]

thats some high level assumption

i never said i thought we were in a great place

i just said i enjoy playing the spec and blasting in m+

would be cool if we could blast more

[steel ridge]

the blasting is rather shortlived most of the time sadly

[echo heath]

but man that double pack pull at the start of nok is pretty fucking fun

[steel ridge]

how much are you pulling in that pack?

what is that, like 12 mobs?

[echo heath]

probably not as much as an unholy dk or outlaw rogue thats for sure

[steel ridge]

outlaw is not at all competitive in that pullsize

[echo heath]

oh good

haven't played with any this expansion i just assumed

not a fan of the current iteration either so i'm staying away

[steel ridge]

whats that ambush icon behind your name then?

[echo heath]

i dont know its supposed to be the dragon tempered blades icon

but it wont switch

[thorn fjord]

dunno im getting close to 400k on that pull playing OL

[echo heath]

oh well the highest i've hit with my trinkets going is 350k so ...sad

[steel ridge]

boon?

[thorn fjord]

Yeah

[steel ridge]

then OL isnt the reason you do 400k^^

[thorn fjord]

I have a harder time getting there with sub

But i know its the play

[steel ridge]

sub will smoke you at 12 targets any day of the week

not even remotely a competition

[thorn fjord]

Yeah but it'll pull ahead once the pack starts to get smaller

Atleast with my experience

Same shit with Warriors and DH's

[steel ridge]

sub will be able to do its thing until 3 mobs

then it starts to throttle

i dont like it either, but its just the reality rn

[thorn fjord]

At my level of play (which is hot dog water) Theres not much of a difference

Or atleast i cant feel it

[steel ridge]

same

i am running KiR outlaw for shits and giggles because i hate HO

[echo heath]

my copium is that they fix our aoe damage without compromising the playstyle at some point

[steel ridge]

yeah so do i

[echo heath]

but i couldn't even begin to give reasonable suggestions

[steel ridge]

theres been many

[thorn fjord]

Man just back pedal the ER nerf

And give us 45 sec exsang back

[steel ridge]

nah

[thorn fjord]

The exsang nerf is much but asking for a revert to ER isnt unreasonable

is a bit much

[steel ridge]

ER nerf was stupid in the first place but doesnt really do much

Exsang can stay where it is

in the fucking gutter

[echo heath]

i dont feel like either of those would fix our aoe woes anyway

[thorn fjord]

Have PB go back to how it was in Legion

An absolute monster

😛

[steel ridge]

why legion

just early beta

[thorn fjord]

PB was crazy strong in legion

[steel ridge]

50% proc chance, 70% for ER with insane dmg

[thorn fjord]

Did so much dmg

[steel ridge]

during early df beta, it was trucking like hell

you did just spam envenom in AoE

then it got nerfed like 3 times

[echo heath]

buffing poison bomb would be a good compromise because it would help single target as well

[steel ridge]

wouldnt fix any issues

[echo heath]

no but it would be a strong bandaid

have they said anything? are we getting a rework?

[steel ridge]

first i would give garrote the rake treatment

no cd, cleaves on another target (smart)

and then i would just turn assa into feral

[echo heath]

lol

[steel ridge]

lmao

no seriously

garrote cd is just stupid and serves no purpose, its even more energy expensive than rake

being able to build cp in aoe with garrote (2cp maybe, since it would hit 2 targets) would go a long way

and for an actual band aid i would just make IC apply garrote damage as if you were stealthed (fixes the restealthing issues, without a need for lower vanish cd)

and maybe reduce the CD to 30 seconds even, but that might not be needed

oh and make envenom cleave 25% damage to targets afflicted by deadly poison

get rid of poison bomb for that

buuut that would still live us without an actual AoE cooldown, since deathmark is one target only

[echo heath]

i like the note on envenom but maybe just turn poison bomb into that

[steel ridge]

like i said, get rid of pb for that

id rather have envenom cleave of a big target then that rng fiesta

[echo heath]

what if deathmark applied with IC but the duplicated dots did 50% less damage

[steel ridge]

mhhh too complicated

[echo heath]

to much like an unholy dk

would crash computers

call it potato bomb

[steel ridge]

dm serves a funnel role, where you get massive scent buff from big rupture spread

but maybe uncap IC again, like it was before it even made it into beta

or make it 12 targets or whatever 😄

8 sometimes doesnt cut it

theres alot of ways you could make sin less awkward in big pulls

[echo heath]

also the envenom change you mentioned would be better for those three or 4 packs too

less praying to rng jesus

[steel ridge]

maybe too similar to flurried dispatches

but still, something has to be done to envenom in aoe

its embarressing

you kinda need it to keep poison uptime but you dont need since Ct does more damage if you spam it

its in a very weird spot

and CT is cool and all, but kinda redundant since it costs CP

maybe just put CT on a CD and make it slam

without the need for combopoints

[echo heath]

lower the cd on IC and bake CT into the spell

[steel ridge]

something like that

but you would still want to use it in stealth sometimes

[echo heath]

someone send our whiteboard to realz

[steel ridge]

realz might read this channel still, or might not

who knows

[thorn fjord]

He only reads sub channel now

Oh and Havoc

[steel ridge]

blizzard has to get 10.0.7 out soon, the playerbase is getting bored

and 10.1 info asap

so i reckon there will be something for us in due time

if theres nothing for rogue on 10.1 i am simply going to reroll feral 😄

[echo heath]

man, ill probably stick it out, last time i bailed a spec it got turbo buffed and i regretted it

[steel ridge]

doesnt mean i am not playing rogue

[thorn fjord]

Im already dolling UH

lol

[steel ridge]

just not as much as i would like to 😄

[thorn fjord]

But yeah content drought is real

[young snow]

There needs to be more than 8 dungeons at launch. This bizarro world number of 8 being good enough is tragic

[balmy condor]

Depends on the target count, on 8 it doesn’t seem to matter what you spam

[summer briar]

on dathea, can u precloack before marks gets out to make it so u wont get mark ?

or does it make so grp get only 3 marks if you are suppost to get mark ?

[echo heath]

why not just cloak after? you might not get chosen

[summer briar]

im asking if u can ignore the entire mechanic so other people get mark

on mythic

because u need marks to get adds up

but i rather have it on a ranged then me

[steel ridge]

cloak it and let ranges duplicate it

[brazen fern]

!stats

[prisma monolith]

The following is a general recommendation, but you will always get more accurate results through simming your gear through Top Gear.
Crit >= Mastery > Haste > Versatility
Note: In high mythic+ keys, you may want more Versatility to survive. While you may see this on high end players gear, this is generally worse DPS. For pure DPS, Versatility is mostly avoided.

[steel ridge]

easier than you having to walk all the way across the board

[thorn fjord]

you can

But yeah you're better off cloaking afterwards and letting Range duplicate

[summer briar]

if i cloak before marks are trown out , is there a chace that raid only gets 3 mark ? or cant u be targeted at all if u have cloak up

[thorn fjord]

I think it'll give to the rest of the raid but i havent tried it myself

Either way our group gave melee prio so i was always the first one to drop dot if i got it

[summer briar]

well im not allowed to cloak dot at all

so im asking if i can make it guaranteed to not get mark if i pre cloak

[thorn fjord]

I guess try it... but i would assume it would give to another player

Not sure how that type of interaction would work

[shell pollen]

Hello, got 1 question. After using 1st puzzle > vanish > exs > dm, should I wait for sync time 3minutes or use vanish + dm and then wait this 1 minute for combo again?

[misty olive]

!lariat

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[thorn fjord]

Depends on the fight length

But on lorgzz i see most rogues holding exsang for 4m dm

or atleast the ones i click on lol

[oblique jackal]

is Maghar useful at all?

[shell pollen]

thx

[thorn fjord]

if the fight is going longer than 6m you can send exsang with ER at 3m

But can also hold till 4

If the fight is going to be shorter than 6:20ish hold till 4

[karmic cedar]

Between Controlled Current Technique (408), Puzzle Box (415), and Whetstone (415), which ones should I generally be using in M+? Sims are telling me to drop Whetstone, but I find the on demand burst really useful

Guessing Puzzle Box and Whetstone, though I hate double on use

[spice spire]

Pb is also on demand burst

Idk listen to robot, or feelcraft it

I run pb/stone, or pb/icon (421)

[karmic cedar]

Yeah I am treating Puzzle Box as a must, so I guess the question is is CCT really better than Whetstone

[thorn fjord]

Not a 408 one

[summer briar]

i see some rogues with haste gems, sim still telling me mastery/critt is better at 419 ilevel ..

[thorny pond]

Follow the sims

[summer briar]

yeah

just find it wierd how some people run haste gems

[thorny pond]

They probably aren’t simming

[thorn fjord]

Old habits die hard

[gaunt moat]

From my experience, optimizing gems at best gives you like 200-250 DPS
And haste gems are pretty good

[gusty mirage]

Odd assumption, because my sims have been telling me to swap gems to haste for like a month now

[thorny pond]

Interesting

What stats you at?

[balmy condor]

My sims also have haste gems

For a couple weeks

[echo heath]

thats my current stat weights

but i really dont want to switch to haste gems and enchants unless its a huge increase

i feel like as soon as i do that and sim it again its just going to tell me to put crit/mast in

[balmy condor]

That’s how stat weights work usually yes

[outer siren]

How were your eggs but

[balmy condor]

Thats why no one uses them

[outer siren]

Did you poach them

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

I tried to poach diurna eggs and she got mad and murdered 20 people

[outer siren]

Standard day in Texas

[strange python]

Tbh would love some sort of an answer on why BM got buffed and sin has no changes for 10.0.7

[outer siren]

head to blizzard HQ and let your voice be heard

stand outside and scream bro

[kind talon]

there isnt any

[brazen zodiac]

same

i wont give in

[vagrant brook]

same, my sims are within <0.1% of each other between crit/haste/mastery gems in all sorts of combinations, so i just stay crit+mast for both sub and sin

[dreamy gull]

They'll just make sin do 5% more damage lol

[storm onyx]

I remember the wording for the nerf "spec getting too much attention", didn't say dmg too high; they knew some of the nerfs were not just on the long run. I thought it was due to gear funnels and craft dagger, they decided to prevent spec stacking for world first race. We got borked due to our efficiency /shrug

[strange python]

Still weird realz hasn't said anything to this chat after how talkative he was in beta

And tbh really disappointing considering how we knew that the nerfs were overboard even at the time

I'm actually a little surprised I haven't seen more people tagging him, though I suspect he has mentions off anyways.

Not that anyone should, but y'know, people are apes

[storm onyx]

They knew it too, hence silence i guess, what would it be, they accept and retune? i doubt it. I guess he doesnt want to stir things around before they decide on some talents. wishful thinking

[strange python]

I mean. They've overnerfed classes and then buffed them plenty of times.

It is very weird to me that nothing is being said about sin when it's mediocre in keys and only does ST in raid, and isn't even good at the ST it does

Also personally salty cause parsing as sub in farm is heinous. It's just about padding

[storm onyx]

tbh, i fear they will come up with something that says they fixed aoe and let st stay like this

[strange python]

I think many sin players like the ST niche. But they want it to just be better at ST

Or not have to sacrifice so hard on AoE. Enhance and warrior seem to have a better blend

[storm onyx]

yea, i dont even look at overalls, boss/pro dmg on details

I dont want the Sub generation/spender dynamics, i just want some stuff affect eachother so bleeds ramp up either faster or become stronger, or prolong, so i shift finisher etc...

[gusty mirage]

the dooming in this channel

has hit peak levels of dumb

[balmy condor]

they're all on raz

[spice spire]

U rn

[ebon notch]

Wait till they actually start playing the spec properly

Maybe it'll calm down

[grim tangle]

sin rogue worst spec in the game tbh

[prisma carbon]

buff rogue

[unreal bear]

my journey is done

the only keystone hero sin rogue on my server

[gusty mirage]

[prisma carbon]

[unreal bear]

i also don't understand the hate towards sin, we do plenty of damage. not top top tier, but pretty damn good

lack of utility is ruff

[prisma carbon]

what

[unreal bear]

the spec loses its luster when you're doing peak difficulty content

otherwise i think you're fine playing it

[prisma carbon]

what content are u doing where rogue has a lack of utility

[unreal bear]

where sin does?

frequently in m+ chain pulls because of bursty aoe

[prisma carbon]

yeah i mean if you are insistent on just playing 1 spec, sure

[unreal bear]

yes that was my point, hence why i said "hate towards sin ... lack of utility is ruff"

and typing it in #assassination

[prisma carbon]

does sin actually have less utility tho?
i feel like people play the other 2 specs bc they bring more damage

in keys

[ebon notch]

Less reliable utility

Sub can shuriken storm and get full CP for a kidney in one global

Assa can't reliably do that

Access to cheap shot is very limited also

And yes technically any cp kidney is still a stun, if you're soloing a mob having a max duration kidney makes all the difference

[slow marsh]

Today I learned we can't even dance ic garrote for 2x iron wire so yeah

[ebon notch]

Cringe

[slow marsh]

Remember when the rogue dev said that when something allows for use of stealth abilities it would trigger talents as if a stealth ability was used

Or was I just dreaming about that leading up to df

[sweet bobcat]

whats the go with mage tower

how am i tanking all that

[mystic zenith]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[balmy condor]

guide in the pins

[sweet bobcat]

ive read it

im straight up just getting melee'd to death tho

in under a minute

my death logs is 90% auto attacks

[balmy condor]

dunno

the autos tickle

only one autoing you should be sigryn

the caster just is spam casting

and jarl throws axes

sometimes you get autos from jarl

[sweet bobcat]

-1.8s -963 (21%) Auto Attack (Jarl Velbrand)
-1.2s -479 (10%) Auto Attack (Jarl Velbrand)
-1.2s +42 (11%) Leech (Notfatstab)
-0.9s -152 (11%) Auto Attack (Sigryn)
-0.0s -488 (4%) Auto Attack (Jarl Velbrand)

[balmy condor]

but you can just kite away

yeah

kite away from him

he's empowered

[sweet bobcat]

alright

i kidney'd

[balmy condor]

those are the empowered autos

[sweet bobcat]

when he was enraged

maybe i kidney'd wrong one

and i can use kick on CD for shadowbolts?

[balmy condor]

yeah for the most part

[balmy condor]

and then what did you do after the kidney runs out

[sweet bobcat]

not sure

i either kidney'd the mage on accident or let him go on me

would crippling poison help?

or should i just shiv him actually

[balmy condor]

you evasion

can't shiv that enrage

[sweet bobcat]

but it would crippling him right

[balmy condor]

it's a 20 second enrage, you kidney, evasion, and then kite

the last 3ish seconds is just a kite

[sweet bobcat]

whats the timer on it to happen again?

[balmy condor]

no idea

[sweet bobcat]

was your evasion up every time

[balmy condor]

no idea

[sweet bobcat]

ahaha

all good

[balmy condor]

I just hit evasion if I have it and he's enraged

[sweet bobcat]

ya

[balmy condor]

like the timing doesn't really matter

[sweet bobcat]

i think i've got a decent plan now tbh

[balmy condor]

if he breaks out of the kidney

and you have evasion

use that

if you don't have it

[sweet bobcat]

yep

[balmy condor]

run like a bitch

[sweet bobcat]

yeah then ill shiv for crippling

and run

that will work well

thanks a lot

[balmy condor]

np

[pale gate]

what are the chances... we get buffed?

[balmy condor]

chance depends on situation

what are you hoping gets buffed

gonna be waiting a while for that

[gusty mirage]

you're gonna be waiting a very very long time for that one

[slow marsh]

I mean

[gusty mirage]

I mean from a rogue only perspective, the other 2 specs don't have anything baseline

[slow marsh]

Just roll feral

[gusty mirage]

their aoe options are just actually good

let

's be honest

if our aoe actually did damage

we wouldn't care about dropping 15-20% ST for giga aoe

they seem to have found solutions for the other "dot specs"

[slow marsh]

That's a lot of %s

[gusty mirage]

I mean if you're expecting arms warrior or feral druid on any rogue spec

you're gonna be sadge

[slow marsh]

Always

[gusty mirage]

if they just gave us an aoe bleed flourish

I think it'd solve a lot of assassination's problems

in aoe

IC and scent returning are super good

but unfortunately not enough

[slow marsh]

Yeah just seems like nothing to do with it

[gusty mirage]

IC just turned out to be a quality of life CD

[slow marsh]

Ferals primal wrath AoE rip thing makes me super jelly tbh

CT is just so mid to me

[gusty mirage]

there's a lot of things fundamentally wrong with rogue

and a lot of it is our class tree

[slow marsh]

Yeah true

[gusty mirage]

sub's rupture doing more than assassination's

[sweet bobcat]

thats a lot of classes tho

[gusty mirage]

and that's with our bajillion interactions with buffing rupture damage

[slow marsh]

While also auto spreading to more targets

I think they are a bit too stuck on the bleeds or poisons pick one thing

[gusty mirage]

I would agree if they didn't completely gut poison damage

[sweet bobcat]

because sub has interactions that turn it to shadow damage

and buff that

[gusty mirage]

sure

dark brew and deeper daggers

[sweet bobcat]

then a flat 20% increase on replicating shadows

[gusty mirage]

most of it is just finality ruptures

[sweet bobcat]

and finality

[gusty mirage]

tbh

[sweet bobcat]

yeah

[storm onyx]

They dont want to repeat bleeds become irrevelant again, there was a time we didnt use garrote on rotation at all. they didnt like that

[sweet bobcat]

finality is huge

sub also gimps its single target DPS for AoE tho

[slow marsh]

I mean we just don't have enough damage in rupture period whether is passive or active windows

[gusty mirage]

yea

idk why people think it doesn't

[slow marsh]

We have all those passive bleed buffs for what

[sweet bobcat]

like to take a single AoE talent you have to drop big talents that make your rotation smooth

[storm onyx]

Then they dont want poisons to pick up alot couse then big portion of players complain on passive dmg

[gusty mirage]

which is why I said if we got similar aoe power than sub did, people wouldn't care if we sacrificed ST for it

[sweet bobcat]

yeah for sure

[gusty mirage]

problem is assassination aoe is garbagio

[sweet bobcat]

thats deffs fair

yeah it isnt good

[gusty mirage]

which isn't a ST vs AoE sacrifice problem

but the fact that the sacrifice for aoe just isn't really impressive

[slow marsh]

Playing feral really just makes me more upsetty about what assa could be idk

[sweet bobcat]

i think indiscriminate carnage is a weird talent

on a 45 sec cooldown

[slow marsh]

IC is fine as 45s idk why that's a thing

[gusty mirage]

I think it provides a nice synergy for 7cp ruptures w/ ER

[sweet bobcat]

seems pretty mid for a capstone

[gusty mirage]

but the problem is

yeah

it's just kinda whatever

esp for being so deep in the tree

[slow marsh]

IC needs something under it tho

[gusty mirage]

ends up being a QoL thing

moreso than a damage +

[sweet bobcat]

and tbh

like

sin is meant to be ST king

but is it even that good in raid rn

i guess its a cleave raid

so

[slow marsh]

It's always good

We just aren't good enough at it

[gusty mirage]

yeah assassination and survival seem pigeon holed in "ST"

but they design raids with very little patchwerk style fights

so

this one is notoriously bad

[sweet bobcat]

you need a talent like

[gusty mirage]

we have terros and that's about it

[sweet bobcat]

replicating shadows

[storm onyx]

I am ok if i dont show up in overall; just want to rip the prio targets for real

[sweet bobcat]

that spreads rupture and garrote to 2/3 targets

[gusty mirage]

yeah we need something to make 2-3T cleave less annoying

and I think it'd be fine

[sweet bobcat]

im noticing that now

doing mage tower

its really fucking annoying

and hard to manage

[slow marsh]

It feels like a cop out but if CT worked like primal wrath I think it'd be so much nicer. But I dislike making specs the same so that doesn't work either

[gusty mirage]

esp cause fok is fucking worthless as a builder half the time

fok 3T?

[sweet bobcat]

yeah what the hell

[gusty mirage]

wahoo 1cp!

[sweet bobcat]

is fan of knives

why does it work like that

[gusty mirage]

I wish I had an answer

[sweet bobcat]

and only give cp on crits

may as well never press it

[slow marsh]

Cuz fok

[storm onyx]

I was hoping for 2 target ruptures for Assa tbh, was a surprise we didnt get it; for me atleast, considering the bleed niche

[gusty mirage]

you'd think it did more damage as a trade off

[sweet bobcat]

waste of a global tbh

[slow marsh]

I wish they reversed the fan talent

[gusty mirage]

honestly at times it does feel that way in 2-3T cleave

[slow marsh]

It should do more damage for 5 and under not over

[gusty mirage]

they could legit just implement deathspike into SBS

and it would do a lot to fix our 2-3T cleave

[sweet bobcat]

it should just work like shuriken storm

and give a combo point for every target hit

[slow marsh]

Na

[gusty mirage]

even if they didn't wanna do the increased charges

just the free cleave

[storm onyx]

Fok could extend bleeds on targets, that would be neat

[slow marsh]

Fok doing more damage based on how many bleeds is a popularish idea

Extending is unnecessary

It needs to do damage not really have utility

[storm onyx]

extending would free finishers for more prio dmg finishers

[sweet bobcat]

why

[slow marsh]

Which makes us sub

Which is boring

[sweet bobcat]

wouldnt you rather it gave points to spend

on something better

[slow marsh]

I would rather the spec played like it should and not just be a red+green shade of sub

[sweet bobcat]

that doesnt make it a red + green shade of sub

[slow marsh]

Making fok = shuriken storm ?

[sweet bobcat]

yeah

i dont see the issue

[slow marsh]

Thats a tale as old as time

[sweet bobcat]

use it for free finishers

[gusty mirage]

bro

[slow marsh]

Surprised seli hasn't already joined and blasted it

[gusty mirage]

my gloomblade

the first one

out of dance

hits as hard as a 7cp envenom

AMA

[sweet bobcat]

gloom slaps

[gusty mirage]

the more I play sub for raz

the more I ask myself why I even played assassination

[slow marsh]

Yeah

[sweet bobcat]

the thing is

[storm onyx]

:/

[sweet bobcat]

all classes should be like sub

[gusty mirage]

like is the 3k more ST worth it?

[sweet bobcat]

and do damage outside CDs like that

[gusty mirage]

we're still doing 10k less than frost mages and bm hunters

who the fuck cares

[sweet bobcat]

specs that dont work like that feel dog

[slow marsh]

Well I agree we should do more damage outside of cds and we can they just don't understand the spec idk

[sweet bobcat]

i logged into my demo warlock to do this mage tower

[drifting cloud]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x4j9v8VX2PaCdTJ6#fight=43&type=damage-done&phase=5

[sweet bobcat]

pressed 1 million CDs and my head exploded

and relogged to rogue

[gusty mirage]

ur bm hunter sucks

[drifting cloud]

youre gonna be doing 70k as sub

[sweet bobcat]

70k

[drifting cloud]

actually wait are y ou playing 1 step now oxi after nerfs?

[gusty mirage]

no

[drifting cloud]

might be worth

[gusty mirage]

at that point I should just play assassination

I'm waiting for the like

3% p3 wipe

[drifting cloud]

do you know how much dps that point is

[gusty mirage]

"can you play assassination"

[drifting cloud]

Im sad I simmed it

[gusty mirage]

no idea

[drifting cloud]

its 2k and change

[gusty mirage]

all I know is sub's spec tree

is fucking garbage bro

like assassination's is bad

but holy shit

sub's is horrendous

[slow marsh]

I feel for sub

[drifting cloud]

yeah subs whole t ree is like

2-3 points you move around

[gusty mirage]

like

[drifting cloud]

rest is so bad you never consider

[gusty mirage]

it's fucking awful man

the left side of the tree

is deader than my social life

[slow marsh]

At least without added BP systems they can take more time to get the new talent trees right

[drifting cloud]

10.1 exalted rep for 2 talent points

[slow marsh]

But hey at least we have purple dresses we can mog now

[tough gorge]

Make left side of tree the aoe tree, move IC there. The middle and right should be ST options. Foe mythic+ you go left side plus one other side. For pure ST just ignore aoe.

Make envenom proc poison bomb everytime but nerf the dmg. Fixed assass busted pvp dmg and gives easy aoe funnel.

[slow marsh]

[gusty mirage]

sign me up

I unquit

then I can take POWERHOUSES like MORE POISON DAMAGE

[sweet bobcat]

yep

[sweet bobcat]

its pvp talents and even then they're mostly dog shit

invigorating shadow dust is good for the CDR build the wasted points to get to it are shit

i've been saying the sub spec tree is bad since the start of xpac and nobody agrees because they dont want to upset the devs and have them butcher the class

[slow marsh]

Rogues upsetting devs wut

[oak sky]

literally everyone agrees

💀

[sweet bobcat]

every time i whinge i get told subs in a good place

so i stopped whinging

[oak sky]

numerically sure

and sub does have some relatively fun builds

but its for sure troll that you just ignore like

10 points

always

[slow marsh]

I mean sub tree is as shitty as it is and yet it still outperforms assa in most content so

[oak sky]

like the upside to the sin tree is you use pretty much every point in some scenario

the problem is more how it translates to performance

and how it feels to take those points

and how often you can take some points

[slow marsh]

We will probably just get bandaid number tuning and it'll temporarily work and we'll do the same dance over again

Which in all fairness I would rather have that and they fix sub tree than other way around

[oak sky]

well i think sin is like

getting looked at

to some extent

per old pin

[slow marsh]

Yeah

I still have smol hope

[oak sky]

seems pretty likely to be a 10.1 thing

imo

[slow marsh]

But I'm leveling feral I'm not waiting around

Maybe if I play feral then sub / outlaw will be more attractive to me and I can be free

[oak sky]

yeah i mean

im not really planning to play anything but rogue going forward

but if i end up being a casual i could just do whatever

if i end up raiding i could be a non rogue

[slow marsh]

Yeah at the moment I don't have any prospects so if I'm just gonna be an m+ rat I may as well have fun

Rogue is definitely still better to me aesthetically but it is what it is

[oak sky]

feral definitely isnt the same as any rogue spec

i think their talent tree/mini rework was pretty good

[slow marsh]

Na it's like boomer assa rogue

Snapshot bleeds everywhere

[oak sky]

in aoe its multidot/spam

[slow marsh]

Yeah in aoe it's fun AF

[oak sky]

the st is pretty similar but you have tigers fury which is a different energy regen thing

pooling actually matters

[sweet bobcat]

sub feels heaps good in m+

why dont you just play that

[oak sky]

and also you have brutal slash

and the little quirk of using swipe in st

[slow marsh]

Cuz I want to make things bleed

[oak sky]

feral has the little things to differentiate it

[sweet bobcat]

rupture lil bro

[slow marsh]

Shadow rupture doesn't count

[sweet bobcat]

why

[oak sky]

i mean tbf sub is more of a multidot spec than sin

[slow marsh]

Yeah

And because I want assa to be good it frustrates me

So I play feral to get my fix and then I can be chill with sub

But the whole 'why not just play sub?' thing is still triggering to me after all of SL

[sweet bobcat]

i mean

when you pick a triple dps class

usually you just play the spec thats good

but tbf i'd play a diff class if both sub and assa weren't good

i hate outlaw

[slow marsh]

Why

[sweet bobcat]

feels shit

and cringe

rtb is cringe af

[slow marsh]

Yeah idk I hated outlaw for too long cuz I blamed it for taking old combat away and replacing with dumb pirate stuff

[oak sky]

i like outlaw

[slow marsh]

Then I grew up and realized it was fun

[oak sky]

everyone is entitled to have preferences

[slow marsh]

I can play all 3 specs and if I was raiding seriously I would play whatever is best at the time. I just prefer assa's dot theme

[unreal bear]

thematically outlaw is cool, actually playing it feels terrible

[tough gorge]

My only problem with outlaw right now is that assass and sub both use daggers and prioritize crit and mastery.

Switching to outlaw when you stacked giga mastery is weird.

[unreal bear]

yeah for sure

[tough gorge]

Need a whole new set of vers gear

[unreal bear]

and good luck having the valor to rock two sets like that

[oak sky]

its uncapped now so

[unreal bear]

yeah it's just a lot of grinding

[tough gorge]

Yeah its too time consuming to gey more gear for it

[unreal bear]

i'd drop like 10-15 ilvls if i switched to outlaw with what i have

[oak sky]

mastery isnt that awful for outlaw

[tough gorge]

I want to actually play it more but its a detriment with so much mastery

[oak sky]

a sim would probably recommend most of the same gear

until you can upgrade the gear with more vers

[slow marsh]

Mastery is good for outlaw AoE it's fine just do what you want

[tough gorge]

Mastery is just main gauche? Its gotta be a big drop if you dont have vers

I have little vers on my gear

[slow marsh]

Na

[oak sky]

if you would go down 15 ilvls the ilvl will almost surely be better than a shitty vers piece

[tough gorge]

I dont wanna go down 15 ilvl

[slow marsh]

Crit mast is a fine balance for all 3 the most annoying thing is just having high ilvl mh

[oak sky]

outlaw mastery isnt great but its not unplayable bad

[unreal bear]

yeah i just keep random m+ pieces in the event i need to press the eject button on sin

[oak sky]

as you shouldnt

[unreal bear]

but honestly i perform fine, not ideal but i do the damage i need to do

[slow marsh]

Yeah idk I guess to me after a whole xpac of coping with that line I'm just over it

[oak sky]

Zaoe

Bedge

[unreal bear]

class just feels soulless, so i take whatever i can get

[slow marsh]

I wouldn't say the class feels soulless as much as just lost

[cedar hare]

Do you guys go crit or mastery for assa?

[tough gorge]

Both

[unreal bear]

that's fair, just my perspective

[oak sky]

crit>mastery>haste>>vers

[cedar hare]

How much crit?

[unreal bear]

as much as you can afford i guess

[tough gorge]

All of it

[slow marsh]

However much sim says

[unreal bear]

i'm about 35% crit and 43% mastery rn

[tough gorge]

Every 1% crit is minimum 1% dmg bonus.

With modifers can go higher

[brazen zodiac]

iceblades

[tough gorge]

We dont know your ilvl, but thats fine with no context

[oak sky]

yeah idk just sim the gear you have and use whatever it spits out

looking for crit and mastery pieces is good, and you can also use droptimizer to check what upgrades are highest priority for you

[slow marsh]

It's just a good habit to sim

[tough gorge]

Too sweaty for me

Just get crit and mastery

[unreal bear]

copy paste > run sim

[tough gorge]

Easy

[unreal bear]

phew

although i dont really pay attention to the tiny optimizations

[oak sky]

we're just giving the best advice we can its always up to every individual whether they take it

sim will lead to the highest dps

[tough gorge]

Now you gotta teach them how to sim

[slow marsh]

/Simc Ctrl + c Ctrl + v too sweaty

[tough gorge]

Copy what tho?

[oak sky]

simc string

[oak sky]

theres guides for that and its not too complicated

[slow marsh]

Literally type /simc then Ctrl c

[tough gorge]

Right but imagine someoje coming in who dont know. Something like just go crit and mastery is far simplee with virtually same results.

[oak sky]

teach a man to fish...

[drifting cloud]

they managed to find this discord, they can manage raidbots

[pastel onyx]

u actually need to be a to know how to sim

[balmy condor]

!simguide

[prisma monolith]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[pastel onyx]

very complicated

[balmy condor]

[pastel onyx]

[balmy condor]

You want to be decently good at pve? Easy 3 step process ready?

1. Learn how to not die to every mechanic that happens
2. Push cooldowns on cooldown
3. Learn how to use top gear, learn the basics of Warcraftlogs

You can now parse 60-75 in mythic raids

Congratulations

[unreal bear]

4. drop exsang entirely

[strange python]

Shit #3 can get you to 90% pretty easily

Unless your gear is trash most everyone can hit 90s by learning how to read logs

[balmy condor]

I’m being realistic

But yeah

[unreal bear]

instructions unclear, forgot to change spec and went into m council as single target

[slow marsh]

This is too sweaty for me sorry sir I can't do it but can you tell me what stats to prio

[strange python]

Vers so you stand in mechanics and live

[slow marsh]

Bet

[keen spruce]

but when do I use puzzle box in the opener tho

[strange python]

Surely my 1 box vault tomorrow is good.

[slow marsh]

Same

[strange python]

You should tag Oxi and ask.

[oak sky]

!puzzlebox

[keen spruce]

plenty of time to fill that vault up

[balmy condor]

!box

[strange python]

!box

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.

[oak sky]

ok

ive really been gone too long

i dont even know the commands

[balmy condor]

and really

that suggestion is so specific

idk

[strange python]

We've only done eranog council kills since raz died 😦

Wtb more mythic vault slots

[keen spruce]

I think dathea dies next week

[unreal bear]

you could join my guild's mythic regression

[keen spruce]

maybe we kill brood next week too

[strange python]

Dathea is the worst boss this tier tbh

[keen spruce]

I don't hate it

i don't love it

[strange python]

Sennarth slightly more annoying but is much easier

[keen spruce]

i actually vibe with spoody

[strange python]

Raz actually pretty unfun as rogue

[keen spruce]

kurog best boi

[strange python]

You spend the whole prog shadowstepping and cloaking mechanics while everyone else dies.

By like pull 30 raz is boring

Enjoy brood while you can

Fights fun

[unreal bear]

i'll be the controversial one

[keen spruce]

i'm on egg duty and we're still on dathea

[unreal bear]

Terros is my favorite fight because brain off

[keen spruce]

terros would have been cooler if it was a little later

[unreal bear]

no think only stab

[keen spruce]

but after a few vaults it's kind of a meme

[strange python]

Terros was very fun to prog early in the tier when the DPS and healing checks were super tight

[keen spruce]

that's why slugfish was so fun

[strange python]

Made space utilization and the dance more important

If terros was tuned like sludge it would be an all time great patchwerk

[keen spruce]

i haven't gotten to enjoy farm terros cuz it's our obligatory bench vault boss

so our kill times are idential to prog

[strange python]

Tbh I regret not sitting for more bosses until I got eranog ring

I'll probably finish this tier without it at this point

[unreal bear]

gonna go to sleep and dream of a Grieftorch waiting for me in vault

[strange python]

It's already in there you just don't know it yet

[unreal bear]

dont tease me like that

[keen spruce]

i'm gonna do 4 more keys to finish this vault up

[unreal bear]

im still rocking a normal one

[strange python]

I need validation that not doing keys is the right call. Only upgrade I could get is 421 box for +300 dps

[unreal bear]

i started xpac like a month after release so i'm still playing catch up

[keen spruce]

i could use a 421 box, 421 whetstone, 421 daggie, 421 court ring, or some boots/cloak

but what if one of those is in the slot i don't fill

[balmy condor]

[strange python]

You have three mythic 😦

I have 1 mythic 2 heroic

[balmy condor]

simply reclear always

[strange python]

Guild doesn't wanna do farm without sales

[summer briar]

smart

my guild dont wanna do sales, and we waste every singel normal/hc lockout now ...

roster is avg 417 ilevel atm

[strange python]

Also. Why aren't we getting buffed and why haven't they said anything

[hot atlas]

Hey all, Im assuming the bleed portion of serrated bone spike doesnt stack?

[oak sky]

yeah it does not

[balmy condor]

boss damage good I guess idk

I'm not omnipotent

[strange python]

But so many other specs do more boss dam

[balmy condor]

brother idk

I'm not blizzard

[summer briar]

idk, compared to my raid roster, im doing top 3 dps all the time as sin on boss

you should be doing good dmg if u have a proper setup

and my setup is not good atm, only 33% mastery

[oak sky]

stuff like bm and unholy just outdoes us

[summer briar]

and after normal/hc and mythic reclear every week and atleast 10 keys a week im still awaiting a new spark ...

crafted outlaw stuff, and did a swap to ass a few weeks ago

[balmy condor]

??????

[grave ivy]

You’re not!? Crap…

[summer briar]

im missing diurne ring , missing mastery belt/wrist , need daggers, but we are progging dathea atm (16% best )

need sockets, need better chosen ring

[balmy condor]

[grave ivy]

That’s my morning face

[balmy condor]

why do you need diurna ring? what's wrong with your current belt?

[summer briar]

versa belt

[oak sky]

high crit= fine

[balmy condor]

I mean honestly that belts fine

[summer briar]

duty ring is like holy shit amount of mastery

[balmy condor]

okay and?

you don't use it

so

whats the point

[summer briar]

i do use it

when i get it

[balmy condor]

what

why

it's worse than your current rings

[oak sky]

its better than 415 signet isnt it but worse than 421?

or is it not even

[balmy condor]

not at 418 it isn't better

no shot

[oak sky]

no yeah

i meant 431

[summer briar]

well im not getting a 418

im talking mythic one

[keen spruce]

it's like... 20dps dps difference at 431 lol

[balmy condor]

[oak sky]

ye i figured he meant mythic

[keen spruce]

that shit isn't even an upgrade for me over my 415 court ring

[oak sky]

its probably margin

based on profile

[balmy condor]

so you're gonna kill diurna, convince your raid leader to give you the ring that gets used by like 15 other people

and then play it

[summer briar]

i still feel like im shit tier mastery level

[balmy condor]

for +30 dps

poggers

that's big

[oak sky]

dont think about stats

ever

[balmy condor]

gaslight your raid council

[oak sky]

thinking about stats is bad

let a computer think for you

much easier

[keen spruce]

i have less mastery than you and have haste enchants on my rings

[summer briar]

well computer says get the ring

[keen spruce]

show me the carfax

[balmy condor]

for how much dps

[keen spruce]

[balmy condor]

I do not believe you

[grave ivy]

Just milk the boss 4head

[keen spruce]

it's a whopping 198 dps upgrade for me over the exact same ring you're using

[balmy condor]

computer says get the ring

198 dps is 198 dps brother

checkmate

[keen spruce]

if i cared about 198 dps

i'd

u know

[brazen zodiac]

computer knows all

[balmy condor]

it's probably like 1000 dps for every caster, and most tanks

but yes

[keen spruce]

but it's also like 1000 dps for 6 other raiders on my team

[balmy condor]

the rogue should get the 200 dps ring

[brazen zodiac]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-conch-gif-4612648

[keen spruce]

that you'll replace with a better court ring out of vault

well not you

but him

[grave ivy]

Let’s be honest though, you can remove the moonkins from the 6 raiders that it’s big for. No one cares about moonkins

[keen spruce]

m+ = mushroom plus for whispyr

[balmy condor]

okay but what are the chances that happens man come on, it's much more likely we rekill diurna enough times to get like 13 rings so I can get one

that's like what

maybe 20 weeks of rekill

[grave ivy]

If you’re lucky

[keen spruce]

it'll definitely drop 13 times in 20 weeks

[balmy condor]

farming mythic diurna in august

EASY

surely nothing will happen between now and august

[summer briar]

i would take ring for a 10 dps upgrade

min max is min max

[balmy condor]

your raid will not be giving you the ring for 10 dps

[keen spruce]

i mean yeah if my RL traded it to me

but then i'd question the leadership capabilities of my guild

and probably leave

[balmy condor]

if my raid leader gave me the ring for 10 dps

I'm finding a new guild

[grave ivy]

Take your ring and go home

[sweet bobcat]

this mage tower is scuffed as

[keen spruce]

i'm not gettin anything but a dagger and a grieftorch

[sweet bobcat]

this has to be the hardest one

[keen spruce]

for the rest of the tier

[balmy condor]

bit of a skill issue innit

[sweet bobcat]

i dont know

i've done 3 in the last 2 days

[keen spruce]

it is probably harder than most of them

but still a skill issue

[sweet bobcat]

i did worm and agatha in under 10 attempts and the sub rogue one was kinda hard but not too bad

[keen spruce]

dodge shit, cc, kick a thing

[slow marsh]

Imagine cucking 19 other people in a raid over 10 dps and calling it min max

[balmy condor]

is it actually

[grave ivy]

Watching way too much English stuff..

[sweet bobcat]

have you done all of them in dragonflight

[balmy condor]

I only play rogue

[sweet bobcat]

if the twins one is easier than this then this one is the hardest DPS one 100%

[balmy condor]

[keen spruce]

outlaw one was hard in legion with bad gear

[balmy condor]

I did it within 3 hours on first release in legion

[sweet bobcat]

that was the easiest one i did

[keen spruce]

i don't think it is now cuz i haven't heard #outlaw REEEing about it

[balmy condor]

then I did it within like 45 minutes in bfa when it came back

and then I did it in about 20 minutes in dragonflight

I had to kill it 5 times to get the fucking recording

cause it fucked up over and over

bad quality, wrong resolution, etc etc

[grave ivy]

Skill issue innit

[keen spruce]

I my experience in legion was also like 7/8 normal and didn't know what m+ was

so yeah

skill issue

[balmy condor]

took like an hour and a bit to get the recording

idk

it's literally just mechanics

[grave ivy]

Lol

[sweet bobcat]

i dunno i felt worm was just mechanics

[keen spruce]

but i did the assa one and sub no problem in legion

[sweet bobcat]

this is just face tanking heaps of damage

[keen spruce]

so idk

[balmy condor]

don't face tank it then?

[sweet bobcat]

what are you talking about

[balmy condor]

you're saying you're face tanking heaps of damage

if you do the fight properly, you're only ever taking damage from sigryn autos, which do maybe 5% of your hp, and some bolts from runecarver

I can actually just full out-leech sigryn autos

[oak sky]

ye the big avoidable damage is the axes

only issue is if you cant see them

[sweet bobcat]

jarl is on my dick the whole time unless i kidney him or use evasion

[keen spruce]

he needs the guide

[oak sky]

then kidney him or use evasion

💀

[sweet bobcat]

yeah

they have this thing

called cooldowns

[slow marsh]

You have a thing

Called buttons

[balmy condor]

yeh, when they're on cooldown he's throwing axes

[dense herald]

Any news on sbs or exang being removed yet or nah

[slow marsh]

Qwes

Press them and you move

[balmy condor]

idk man

[sweet bobcat]

those are sus movement keys

[oak sky]

dont think sbs was being looked at like that, exsang was supposedly on the docket for soonTM

[balmy condor]

we have this conversation like a dozen times every time mage tower comes up

[oak sky]

maybe 10.1 thing

[balmy condor]

and every time it's just play better

[sweet bobcat]

whats wrong with sbs?

or exsang

[balmy condor]

nothing wrong with sbs

exsang is a dogshit design

[oak sky]

i firmly believe we can get something better than exsang in a somewhat similar design space

[sweet bobcat]

its good in pvp

[oak sky]

even if you like exsang you should be excited for it to change

[sweet bobcat]

cooldowns too long

[dense herald]

Sbs imo is button bloat and also I don’t like being a rogue shooting giant green spikes at ranged but each to their own

[slow marsh]

Whispyr obviously knows everything so we should keep asking him if he's heard anything super top secret

[balmy condor]

its not about it being good

it's about the gameplay being degenerate

[sweet bobcat]

i like sbs

[dense herald]

Yeah lotsa people do

[sweet bobcat]

it doesnt fall off unless they die

so its not really button bloat

[dense herald]

Doesn’t really synergise with anything and you just hit it on cd idk

[steel ridge]

true

[keen spruce]

inb4 they just make exang a 4min cd and change it back to 100%

and move it to capstone

[steel ridge]

sbs is just a button on top of buttons

[keen spruce]

"it's fixed guys"

[balmy condor]

wait a minute, that's just a buff

that's the wrong way

[keen spruce]

but what if they also make puzzlebox a 4 min cd and remove the channel

[sweet bobcat]

bro what is that aids

dont give them any ideas