assassination

[thorny pond]

Like they need a place to start and a foundation

That’s the guides and FAQ

[steady anchor]

Well it helped me get started 😛

[thorny pond]

It’s the equivalent to throwing someone into a comp sci class and tell them not to read the intro

“Figure it out”

That’s a BS answer

[steady anchor]

My thought

[thorny pond]

Yea use the FAQ, read the guides there

Take 30 mins go over it, re read the FAQ and it’ll start to come together

[willow tendon]

The method guide for me is what got me started and honestly told me everything I needed to know

Def recommend

[nocturne current]

I would love to boost for gold, but I'm too afraid I would get ToS banned.

So I have to resort to my old school herb farming.

https://tenor.com/view/honest-word-its-honest-work-it-aint-much-it-aint-much-but-its-honest-work-gif-13763573

[dusk moss]

Does anyone remember that meme video in bfa explaining rogue aoe

[regal sable]

i spent like 800k on getting my r5 embellished items the literal day they were available bc i was going to "try really hard this tier"
i then logged out for 3 weeks and they were 20k when i came back

[regal sable]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/887988018139516938/garretVoicemail.mp4

[nocturne current]

I invested a lot of hours into alchemy only to find out it's just cheaper to buy the flasks and sell the mats instead.

[dusk moss]

thanks

[spice spire]

HOW THE FUCK THO, LET'S GO

[worn panther]

Learn the full multicraft spec and pray to god

On a good day, you Maybe, MAYBE, Go slightly plus

Alchemy died the moment the Vers flask, the cheapest and easiest to learn, became the BiS of like, 2/3 of the classes, and 90% of the meta classes

[magic vine]

alchemy is falling off, but if you had good multi-craft rates you were able to turn a profit even a week or two back off of vers

[nocturne current]

Do you guys go Atrophic on Tyrannical?

[gaunt moat]

I just go numbing.
there's a lot of casts that are very dangerous.

[magic vine]

numbing for me too, even on tyra its way more likely that a missed interrupt is going to wipe your group than a tiny bit less boss dmg

[worn panther]

Well, it depends on the key
I like Atrophic because it allows for less Vers on gear on higher Keys without risking my Cheat

Numbing is 100% better overall, since Trash is deadlier than the bosses

But things like Halls Valkyr storm, or NO Stormy really does help having Atro

[marsh moss]

Do we have to re-apply bleeds with the 4pc set bonus or does it automatically increase?

[gloomy knoll]

You do not have to reapply

That’s worse gameplay than I could even imagine

[marsh moss]

yeah me too haha

[gaunt moat]

@worn panther I think you're giving atrophic too much credit by saying it "really helps"
it helps, but the chances that you'll live or survive just because of atrophic are very slim.
if you think of it as having 3% more health (at the best case scenario)
3% of 250k is only 7,500.
or in other words, imagine you survived a hit with 3% health, that doesn't happen very regularly.
but numbing poison makes it a lot easier to handle interrupts, which are really nasty.

[oak tangle]

3% dr does end up saving healer mana though

[restive spire]

so does every mob casting less from mind numbing

[oak tangle]

not arguing that, im just saying atrophic is more than a 3% dr that doesn't matter outside something you need 3% more hp for

[balmy condor]

3% mana pog

If healers didn’t drink between pulls at like 20% mana

Maybe that would be an argument

But uh

[celest ruin]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[oak tangle]

if i'm honest i have not looked at the convo, didn't realise it was m+ specific

[royal lantern]

i mean, even in raids atrohpic is a meme cus of how raid dmg works

its by far the worst raid buff/debuff by a giant margin because its doesnt work on everything and can drop off during downtimes lmao

take devo aura, and remove all the good things about it, thats atrohpic

[steel ridge]

its better than nothing i guess

raidleaders still want it

and it has guaranteed my spot so far

[vestal wren]

i think we are in a good position

when people overvalue the utility rogue brings rather than undervalue

[royal lantern]

ye, people think its good

in reality its a excelsheet checkmark, but most people dont know that

[winter gale]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[winter gale]

Is Life Bound belt crafted with socket?

[dark token]

Nono it's better than devo trust

[brazen zodiac]

no

👯‍♀️

[sweet bobcat]

whats the assa rogue mage tower like?

hard?

[vestal wren]

it is not easy

[normal mist]

https://tenor.com/view/hmm-gif-9355968

Me right now simming patchwerk VS dungeonslice recrafting my LW pieces to crit haste + haste enchants on rings deciding if its worth it gaining 500dps ST to lose 700 dps dungeonslice

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rYqdkzZp9w9kyXJ2GpmENo

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2Pt2EK58yXXiEKgbX1fuNY

oh and recrafting dagger aswell to crit haste

[vestal wren]

doable if you invest some time tho, so if you have the patience just try it. Wowhead has guides for the challenges too, so if you want to get some tips might be worth looking there.

[normal mist]

Any tips or ideas about the subject?

[sweet bobcat]

would it be easier on my warlock?

i know how to play my warlock but i've only pvp'd as assassination

[normal mist]

if you're better at your warlock probably

its about knowing your shit

nothing a guide cant solve tho 😛

[sweet bobcat]

also if u had to compare it to the sub one

i just finished that

[strange python]

Sub i feel was harder

[vestal wren]

subtelty one was harder in SL

but i think the sub one got a bit easier now

the new talent system helped a lot with adds in the last phase

[sweet bobcat]

i kept wiping on the sub one at 5% and then i just went full send in single target talents and did it first try

[vestal wren]

assassinaiton challange is still about learning the challange

[sweet bobcat]

all the AoE talents were gimping my damage

[vestal wren]

so it will take some tries to get used to it

[sweet bobcat]

sweet thanks

[sweet bobcat]

what gear did everyone use for mage tower

[dark token]

Regular gear

Cba optimizing

Its not hard enough to go full tryhard

[sweet bobcat]

yea fair

[agile geode]

!lariat

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[thorn fjord]

Knowledge is paramount

[viscid spear]

You know what's great? A spec tree with four capstones but only one of them is actually useful since the other two are dps losses if you take either of them.

[royal lantern]

YEHA BUT ROGUE OP XD

dont fix it, or rogue will be even MORE OP

[static glacier]

can you honestly say we're not OP?

[spare crow]

In what sense are we op?

damage? no. utility? yes, but that's kinda the point.

[static glacier]

no other class offers the same level of defensive and mobility tbh

mage is arguable

damage wise we're competitive for top 5 spots in all dmg types depending on the spec / situation

as a package deal rogue is great imo

[spare crow]

sure, as a package deal we're great

but op? not at all.

[static glacier]

like so what if my hunter does 10-15k more dps st on a dungeon boss, the fear of death exists, while rogue laughs

[spare crow]

op was survival hunter/destro lock towards the end of shadowlands

that's the meaning of op

[static glacier]

there's a reason rogues have higher dungeon success rates despite not being op for dmg

didn't play then, from what I understand they were like 20-50% ahead of everything else for damage

[royal lantern]

if you think rogue is OP rn, idk what you play mate lol

like, rogue is good

sub is strong

but OP? what?

and assa is 1 of the worst specs in the game rn lol

[static glacier]

idk, compared to my peers I feel strong, always

[spare crow]

yeah, there's a point where a spec's raw damage just laughs at all the safety/mobility/utility that you can bring.

[static glacier]

moreso on rogue than on hunter which is my alt, 417 and 416 ilvl.

[limber lion]

Strong is not synonymous with OP

[static glacier]

feint + cloak carry the class so hard

thing is, what is op if rogue isn't?

[spare crow]

it's also part of the reason why people play feral/udk in mdi and not rogue.

[spare crow]

It depends on the context

[static glacier]

so uncapped quadratic scaling aoe is what's op?

[spare crow]

if you pull 5+ packs yeah

but if you don't, udk is not op at all.

as i said it depends

[static glacier]

in regular, non mdi groups I'd argue rogue is the premier dps

[royal lantern]

honestly, feint and cloak are vastly overvalued by many people, on most fights they are just standart deffensives and nothing special

like, there is always 1-2 fights where they are REALLY good

[static glacier]

play hunter and say that again

[royal lantern]

but outside of that? nothing that special

[static glacier]

"regular defensive"

[limber lion]

hunter has turtle which is a better version of cloak

[static glacier]

we're good dude

[limber lion]

:-)

[royal lantern]

and the fact that on some fight cloak and feint litearlly do NOTHING

[gloomy knoll]

So only invite feral udk or warrior to key

[royal lantern]

remember sludgefist? 🙂

[gloomy knoll]

gotcha

[static glacier]

our defensives are superior to almost all other defensives in game

[royal lantern]

what

[limber lion]

lmao

[static glacier]

what?

[spare crow]

oh man he said it

rip

[static glacier]

we have a strong defensive toolkit

[royal lantern]

rogue has conditonal deffensives that are good under their conditions and literally no effect outside of them

[viscid spear]

[static glacier]

ice block forces you to not dps

[limber lion]

But wasn't the entire point about staying alive

[static glacier]

not like it doesn't come with a downside

and I said almost

[limber lion]

you literally said the dps doesn't matter as much if you have strong defensives

[static glacier]

bubble and iceblock are better

[royal lantern]

evasion has no use in PvE 99% of the time, cloak is good, but only magic dmg, so rip all physical stuff, feint doesnt work on anything that is not aoe, and some stuff looks like aoe but actually isnt so feint doesnt work

compare that to mage

[static glacier]

honestly, I'm more than happy with rogue. sorry for feeling like we're strong

[viscid spear]

True, but how long do you expect to sit in it? Plus you block all damage, unlike just magic with CloS

[limber lion]

but that's not what you're saying

[viscid spear]

There had to be a downside ofc

[royal lantern]

who has a 45sec durtation 15%dr against everything, barriers that are the best form of "healing" by default, the best immunity ingame and alter time, the most broken mobility and healing tool in 1 ability that has almost no cd lmao

[limber lion]

we're all saying it's strong

[static glacier]

OP =/= strong, I understand

[limber lion]

you're saying "it's op and got the best defensive toolkit"

which is not true.

a lot of specs are strong and a lot of specs have really good defensive toolkits

the tuning is kinda ok currently where there are no real standout OP classes

[static glacier]

if we're talking as a package I think rogue > mage

[viscid spear]

If only my survivability was good, just ask Quake

[royal lantern]

what other class needs to use offensive resources for their deffensive btw?

[static glacier]

thats just an opinion though

[limber lion]

Maybe, doesn't mean it's superior to EVERY class though

and op

just because it's better than mage

it's also very conditional, sometimes a mage is much better than a rogue

and vice versa

[static glacier]

fair enough

[viscid spear]

Mirror Images used to be a decent CD, but now it's just uswd for the damage reduction you get while at least one image remains.

[royal lantern]

well yes

its a broken as hell deff cd lol

litearlly 15% dr for 45seconds

[viscid spear]

Plus you need to be paying cloae attention when using Alter Time especially on fights like Terros

[royal lantern]

and the cd starts when you use the ability, so when it ends, you can use it again in 1min 15sec

[viscid spear]

Just warp your dumb ass back into someone's explosion

All times we've killed H Kurog and I only got targeted with Absolute Zero a single time, on a reclear night when we were just chuckling

It's like the damn cow knows who to put it on for maximum trolling

[nocturne current]

Rogue survivability is unmatched.

[nocturne current]

Whut lol

[royal lantern]

what is there confusing

is there some hidden physical ability cloak works on im not aware off

[nocturne current]

Yeah, Elusiveness.

[sudden hound]

?

[royal lantern]

???????????????????????

what has elusiveness to do with cloak?

[nocturne current]

With Feint.

And with Evasion.

Cloak is garbage compared to Feint, I would trade Feint for Cloak any day.

[viscid spear]

You mean trade Cloak for Feint?

[nocturne current]

Anyday.

Like, by far, lol.

[viscid spear]

I like how Greater Invis isn't an offensive CD

[icy iron]

He means the choice node between Cheat death + Elusiveness i think right?

Elusiveness makes evasion a defensive DR and makes feint kinda

But u lose cheat death :/

Which is kinda

[viscid spear]

Yeah, true

[nocturne current]

Yes, but if you're not dying, what you want Cheat Death for. Cheat Death is good for brainfart scenarios and to extend your life to a point of beyond healing or to abuse a one shot mechanic.

Everything else you should be playing Elusiveness

[royal lantern]

how i missed hyperfox and his 200000IQ takes

[icy iron]

XD

[nocturne current]

Not IQ, it's intelligence

You're just following Cheat Death blindly but don't even think about why.

Other classes don't have Cheat Death and stay alive - so there's reason for you not to mitigate damage instead, if none of the scenarios I listed apply.

[icy iron]

I will admit, Esp on prog pulls very rarely does my cheat death proc in a good scenario where we arn't wiping anyway. And not using it to soak any one shot mechanics.

Might start playing around with Elusiveness tbh

@nocturne current Elusiveness double dips im guessing right? 20% DR in total, and also an extra 40% for aoe?

[royal lantern]

this is such a cooked take, its actually insane

[royal lantern]

nah, it doesnt

[nocturne current]

Cooked take it's your take lol.

[icy iron]

Is it simple maths where 60% reduced aoe dmg in total? Or is it 40% reduced after the 20% DR?

[nocturne current]

Literally 0 logic you would run Cheat Death if you're not going to use it.

[royal lantern]

"CD is bad, other people dont die, if you take it you just blindly follow guides" yeha sure man

will tell that everyone that take cd from now

[icy iron]

Oki dokis ty

Is there a ''What does feint work on'' cheat sheet for this tier anywhere?

[sudden hound]

book of shadows was retired afaik

[spice spire]

It was cuz no submissions

[dreamy gull]

90% of wow players are pepegas who will get more value out of cheat death

(I'm one of the pepegas)

[sudden hound]

i dont think thats a fair assessment. realistically how much energy do you want to spend on feint while using elusiveness? is it better to just use our leech/vial to heal back the damage? health stone/pot? personally speaking elusiveness is attractive in situations where im in danger of being one shot multiple times consistently. something like the arrow on twins boss is NO on high tyrannical. otherwise if i can survive without spending the energy on feint and use it to do more damage and have cd as a safety net thats the avenue i will take.

[sour elm]

he lost me at "cloak is garbage compared to faint"

[dawn kelp]

My brain now hurts after reading this

[lusty surge]

I don't see any time I'd ever take elusiveness unless I was confident I would never die except to my healers going oom

[subtle tundra]

there is a reason everyone plays cheat and not elusiveness

surely the top rogues are bad

[nocturne current]

My brain hurt is people cooked takes on CD. VoD your raid, and I'll count the times Elusiveness comes ahead. Because of the of 70% of the times you don't even trigger cheat death, and when you do trigger 15% of those of the times half your raid is dead anyway.

So you're left with 10% you legit would die and would pop a healing pot and actually make a difference in execute, or it's a wipe either way.

[subtle tundra]

cheat death also allows for a greedier playstyle

cause you know you wont die

but thats hard to understand

cause elusiveness is so good

that everyone plays it

[lusty surge]

Cheat death also scales with your skill as a player imo

[sour elm]

oh this is raid we are talking about; I can see the rationale now

m+ no shot I am dropping cheat.

[subtle tundra]

in terms of prog, im not dropping cheat

[sour elm]

I drop it on reclears

[subtle tundra]

neither on reclears

[sour elm]

but not prog

[keen spruce]

but why

[subtle tundra]

cause why would i on reclear, i dont wnat to press feint on reclear

LOL

[keen spruce]

if content is easy on reclears, then just use cheat in case you fuck up

[lusty surge]

The value of saving a brez is so high

[sour elm]

idk I just don't use it on reclears. Like, might as well have the options elusiveness gives.

Plus if I fuck up on a reclear; 100% the rest of the guild will carry the fight

[nocturne current]

In m+ is different because there's usually less sustain and you account for bigger %. Plus in m+ you can trigger CD multiple times, fair.

[sour elm]

becuase im bad

[subtle tundra]

if i know i need a defensive somewhere just call for TD or PS or bark

[sudden hound]

what options does elusiveness give you on reclear?

[subtle tundra]

90% of the time those are not assigned

[lusty surge]

It gives you the option for excitement because you might actually die

Lol

[sudden hound]

lmfao

[keen spruce]

taking elusiveness in reclears is

[sour elm]

but like; I literally do not proc cheat on reclaer

[keen spruce]

let me spend energy on defensive that I didn't use in prog

[sour elm]

you don't use feint in prog?

[keen spruce]

i worded that poorly

if you're not taking elus in prog

then there's no reason to take it in reclears

yeah you're not gonna proc your cheat very often in recleras

[sour elm]

but theres also no reason not to take it if you get 0 value out of cheat

[keen spruce]

but you're also not gonna start spamming feint cuz you have elus either

[nocturne current]

True, we're all arguing both being equally useless.

[sour elm]

^

[keen spruce]

cheat lets you stand in shit 4 fun tho

for uptime

[nocturne current]

They're just different spells man, like people're smart enough to know when to use which, it depends on so many factors, comp, encounter, etc.

[keen spruce]

when to use elus = pvp

[normal mist]

Lool

[keen spruce]

or if you're overconfident in m+

[sour elm]

yea but, listen. You can send evasion/feint and pull before the tank for extra up time

(dont do this)

[nocturne current]

Like Elusiveness is pretty decent in Nok. Even the Evasion reducing storm damage is pretty decent, the spears from 3rd boss and iron spears from last boss and storm.

[keen spruce]

you can take a boss melee on pull and not proc cheat with enough gear

(also don't do this)

[spice spire]

Elusiveness is actively the play in nokhud. I think only casual has been able to do it on 27ish without (untimed by like 3m tho)

[keen spruce]

I would argue that for 99% of players they should just take cheat

[dreamy gull]

Nokhud awful dungeon ngl

[lusty surge]

What do you use elusiveness for in nokhud

[dreamy gull]

Gale arrow iirc

[lusty surge]

Interesting

[keen spruce]

nokhud would be better if 1st and 2nd bosses were already spawned at dungeon start and the captain mobs just modify them in some way instead of being required to spawn them

and 3rd for that matter

[nocturne current]

Quick Shots.. Storm Boss AoE.. Last boss AoE..

[keen spruce]

and if you took out like 10% of the count requirement and shortened the timer

the burial ground area is such a slog

[dreamy gull]

It's boring to have the dungeon just be the existing overworld but overcast lol

[lusty surge]

Yea it feels like a missed opportunity to have an open dungeon not be very routable

Or at least I haven't seen any cool routes

[keen spruce]

the amount of flight time

hinders the creativity

and the required mobs to spawn bosses

[nocturne current]

Did anyone saw the Temple bridge skip?

[lusty surge]

Man I ran out of vigor one of the first times through that dungeon and hit a tree

[magic vine]

i think its hard to straight look at elusiveness and go "it only saves you if the healer would have gone oom". because a lot of the time if there is big healing pressure its going to be a gcd/throughput issue

[keen spruce]

after the library boss?

[nocturne current]

yeah

[lusty surge]

Worst feeling ever

[keen spruce]

yeah seems chill

makes % hard tho

[lusty surge]

Yea that's a fair take

[keen spruce]

we just kited that big guy down the bridge and pulled it with like 3 other packs on TR

but it is slow

[dreamy gull]

I played black temple yesterday and it made me feel like more raids need that vibe

[magic vine]

like if you can cut a dangerous dot by 20% thats actually really big in terms of what they have to handle right that second

[dreamy gull]

Like a super big dungeon basically

[keen spruce]

this was our time trial route

[lusty surge]

I'm trying to think of situations where that would come up often enough for elusivness to be worth it

[keen spruce]

it didn't go well

[lusty surge]

Where you wouldn't just survive with cloak pot external or whatever

[keen spruce]

playing outlaw, MM, Devestation

[nocturne current]

Nice, can't you pull also the first one from 2 into 1 with BL?

[magic vine]

i tend to view it more in the lens of "does elusiveness let you get through X without that"

like if you're not using up an external, that means it can go on someone else

[keen spruce]

yeah we tried it a few different ways. if you take the caster from 2 in with 1 then you can take the 3 pack into the boss

but it's sketchy

and we're a bunch of casuals

[lusty surge]

Yea that use case makes sense theoretically and I've thought about it before but I can't think of a time I'd actually want to take it over cheat (outside NO as some people mentioned but I'm not in danger of 1 shots there yet at 21/22)

[viscid spear]

Where 8

[nocturne current]

No, in m+ CD is pretty decent as you can trigger it multiple times even so you get good value out of it.

But in raid is like.. buying insurance, up to you how you make the value out of it in the encounter.

[keen spruce]

oh it's empty lol

i just didn't delete it

[viscid spear]

It's my favorite number, right this wrong now.

[magic vine]

you sort of have to go by dungeons and see whats in it that isn't aoe that is still sort of dangerous. like in AA really the only thing elusiveness gets you is the orbs on vex, but thats also one of the more dangerous points so..

on the other hand you've got like hov, where it comes up a lot (hyrja has a few things, bleeds from fenryr, skovald/odin) but also there are a lot of dicey frontals so cd is also really quality there

[lusty surge]

I could see it being nice in court but same sort of balance with all the frontals as hov

Might be good in RLP as well but I regularly proc cheat in that dungeon especially last boss

It feels like I would only take it if I were running keys where I was guaranteed to die and it would make the throughput difference for my healer

And that's pretty hard to know, plus I'm definitely not there in 21/22 anyway

[empty tangle]

are you guys using arterial precision or dragon-tempered blades for mythic+?

[pure moth]

Dtb

Ap is a big loss on single target

[empty tangle]

Thanks!

and for the 3rd poison i should be using amplifying poison?

[pure moth]

Yes

I was in a dungeon with sin rogue that was playing ap. Damage difference really showed on bosses.

[proper tapir]

Yeah I tried AP once. I won't be doing it again. Go DtB

[tough gorge]

I like sin, but rlly dislike the drop off from aoe to st unlike sub. Still play it every now and then tho bc poison and bleeds can be fun.

[granite widget]

is there a tyran / better st key build ? just gonna play for fun

[quick harbor]

!logs

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[quick harbor]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[quick harbor]

Is log review still posible? Looking for some tips

[crisp rover]

how hard is sin to learn and get good at for those certain fights where st might have some value on prog etc

[vapid sierra]

how good is puzzlebox

[crisp rover]

isnt it mainly maintaining dots and spending correctly

cds

was considering dot spec for sennarth too

[steel ridge]

can we feint clutchwatchers rage at diurna?

[drifting cloud]

yes

[steel ridge]

okay, atleast i am not wasting energy then

[quick harbor]

BIS

[vapid sierra]

i meant to send that in sub lol

[vestal wren]

it isn't bis on sub

[limber heath]

do you guys get any aoe talents on raz?

adds seem to live long

[vestal wren]

it might be reasonable to consider #subtlety then

[limber heath]

dont know how to play sub

we are in raz heroic atm xd

[vestal wren]

oh, i assumed mythic

if adds are a problem, you can ask your raid lead to maybe change groups

could be that one group is better/worse at killing them off and that it makes sense to move some players around

[limber heath]

yea that seems better

thanks

[subtle tundra]

Assa is not the spec you want to put on any aoe

[magic vine]

the amount that assa has to give up to get reasonable aoe is way larger than a lot of specs for sure

[limber heath]

yea

i just dont get it

focus on boss only

[dreamy gull]

Tempest baseline would be nice

I noticed in black temple there were so many mobs I ended up swapping between dungeon and raid builds pretty regularly

[deft vault]

whats the command on warcraftlogs for absorbedhealing

[balmy condor]

Isn’t it just absorbedhealing

[slow wadi]

absorbedHealing > 0 something that should work i think

[sweet bobcat]

hes actually right tho

[flint ridge]

How do you type commands in warcraftlogs?

[balmy condor]

they're called queries on wcl

there's a tab for them

bottom right

[flint ridge]

Siri play 'a whole new world by zayn' 😱

[spice spire]

By zayn

[balmy condor]

it's honestly not that useful

tbh

unless you're looking for something so uber specific that you need to filter out

the most you're gonna do is like damage to shields

[olive flame]

Noob question, didn't see it in the FAQ should I be using AP weapon consumes or crit ones?

[oak tangle]

Re CD vs elusive.
I’d rather have control of my life on a 20s cd rather than 6 minutes
Thinking elusive only has a meaning in whether or not it stops a one shot in quick succession is a selfish way to look at things as you can use it relieve pressure on your healer

[balmy condor]

buzzing runes

[balmy condor]

it's not about having control it's about saving you when you fuck up

if you're running elusiveness to relieve pressure on the healer, then you got bigger issues

rogue is already real tanky without elusiveness

[oak tangle]

I know and there is times for it, but if you’ve mastered a fight etc, taking less damage gives more room for a healer to play around someone else fucking up

[balmy condor]

so if you're healer is going "oh fuck rogue needs healing"

chances are if that happens to literally any other party member

you're fucked

also like

20% on non-aoe stuff

is pretty niche

[oak tangle]

Obviously this depends on the tier of content you do and your healer skill level. But atleast for my stuff healers are prone to make mistakes with having to make extra casts

[main blaze]

mythic Diurna, when we are popping eggs and the hunter just dies. yeah.

[balmy condor]

you gonna feint a targeted cast on you that you see coming that you're not interrupting?

[magic vine]

it also comes up for dots and stuff yea?

[balmy condor]

yeah but the scary dots are cloak/dispel usually right?

last boss sha is dispel 1 heal 1

[oak tangle]

If I could pick per boss fight, sha would be cheat death

[balmy condor]

well then what the fuck are we doing here lmao

[magic vine]

they're a mix yea, but overall its the same argument you'd apply for running numbing: it gives people more time to deal with the situation

[balmy condor]

the one mechanic where having a short cd 20% dr is good

and brother says I'd play cheat

[oak tangle]

Haha, this is entirely based on the level of players I play with.

[balmy condor]

I don't think this is a level of play discussion tbh

[oak tangle]

Generally healers are fine keeping up one target it’s heavy spread damage that they fall behind

[balmy condor]

at all levels you're just simply more likely to encounter cases where cheat can save you for free, rather than a niche 20% dr

[balmy condor]

so you would say that they fall behind on area-of-effect damage?

[oak tangle]

Like the tempest boss in NO

[balmy condor]

okay?

whats elusiveness gonna do for you there

it's all aoe

[magic vine]

not all the stuff counts for feint though, which is the only reason elusiveness comes up. or for directed hits like gale arrow

[balmy condor]

you're gonna tell me that the 10% dr on evasion is worth it?

[balmy condor]

yeh this is the only value from elusiveness

if you have a specific dungeon for example where there's a ton of targeted stuff you know is coming

and you know where and when everything is

and you aren't scared of one shots

then you can consider elusiveness

but that's a lot of "and if" happening

[magic vine]

the trade off is you have to consider the one shot potentials yes. which is generally more down a question of "is the trash more scary or the boss stuff more scary"

[balmy condor]

and honestly, the logical leaps you have to make to justify elusiveness in those cases over just taking cheat death and living your life

kinda rough

[oak tangle]

What is the total dr on an aoe with elusive?

[balmy condor]

the same as without

[magic vine]

don't think theres anything in df that double dips atm

[balmy condor]

feint is 40% dr on aoe

elusiveness doesn't affect that

[magic vine]

the uh, arrow things in sl double dipped iirc

[balmy condor]

yeh

[oak tangle]

I then stand corrected, I presumed there was a stacking thing in there

[balmy condor]

very niche stuff

[balmy condor]

??

[oak tangle]

I genuinely though it made the dr better for aoe

[magic vine]

if an ability does non-aoe hit and also causes an aoe pulse you'd get both

[balmy condor]

it specifically says non-area-of-effect

[oak tangle]

Apologies

[balmy condor]

wasn't there that lightning debuff shit in temple of sethralis

on first boss

where it was an aoe but didn't work with feint

because it was a debuff on you

[magic vine]

that sounds familiar

[gusty mirage]

ye the discharge

or whatever that they did

[balmy condor]

dumb

[oak tangle]

I am now having an existential crisis

[gusty mirage]

also was really good for galv pillars

which got buffed by fortified

[balmy condor]

I remember

I remember talks of elusiveness in temple

because there was a bunch of bullshit that just wasn't feintable

every pack had lightning bolt casters

all the aoe was ground effects you side-step

and then the boss aoe's weren't real aoe's so you couldn't feint it anyway

weird dungeon

[magic vine]

i like to think of hov for a "where do you want to gamble" dungeon for cd/elusiveness, since there are a bunch of direct damage things from bosses that i don't think work for normal feint

but the normal trash and your tank are so dangerous that giving up cd is probably going to cost you time

[balmy condor]

I would probably consider elusiveness if it's specifically a really high tyrannical halls

cause then you can feint+evasion the odyn runes when you get fucked

and maybe live for like 2 seconds more

• fenryr dash

[magic vine]

yea runes, felblaze rush has a dd part, hyrjals got a couple dd things, fenryr

[balmy condor]

but cheat on hyrja is real good

like elusiveness does nothing in lightning phase on hyrja

[magic vine]

theres a lightning arc right at the end of storm

[balmy condor]

yeah

[magic vine]

that i don't think counts for normal feint since its like a chain lightning effect? i don't actually know tho

on the sha talk i'd love to take elusiveness for the big sha fight but thats like the only time in the dungeon its useful so its a bad overall pick

[balmy condor]

yeh exactly

[magic vine]

aa only has like 1 fight where its useful but i might consider it since its vex orbs, and that fight can be rough for the healer

[strange python]

i was considering elusiveness for a high nokhud cuz i get owned hard by the 3rd boss gale arrow but i never end up taking it

[magic vine]

no is the best case for taking it honestly. most of the rest of the dungeon isn't terribly dangerous, and its still useful on the last boss, and i think the archers at the start?

without it you're likely to require an external, which depending on your comp might be also needed elsewhere

i think you can pull off cloak-cd-cloak if you start your cloak early enough, but if you're going to 4 arrows you're going to need something

[kind talon]

the timer is like 55 seconds or so

so its not up

for 3rd if you use on 1st

fwiw

[magic vine]

yea no way to pull it off then, its cloak-cd-pray-cloak 🙂

[kind talon]

cloak cd cheat cloak usually

if using elu then its

cloak feint feint cloak feint feint etc

kekw

[thorn fjord]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[thorn fjord]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[vagrant brook]

Does DM duplicate the bleeds/poisons already present on the target or only those applied after casting it?

[thorny pond]

already present

that's why you exsang first

well that and exsang shortens DM

[vagrant brook]

but if I refresh a bleed while DM is on the target, will that bleed still get duplicated?

and do the bleeds stay duplicated through their whole duration or only while DM is up on the target?

[balmy condor]

yes

[balmy condor]

only while dm

the duplication drops when dm ends

[vagrant brook]

alright, thanks, maybe it's just me but the tooltip seems confusing

[balmy condor]

press button duplicate dot, dm finish no more duplicate

[gaunt moat]

you're just snapshot-pilled
i didn't realize that when i first used it either

[balmy condor]

it's still a snapshot regardless because fucking exsanguinate exists

and finds it way into every rotation just to ruin it

[gaunt moat]

we finally got Dathea today. thank god.

when the raid just came out i thought that fight was the most interesting. now i hate it.

on that note
any broodkeeper tips?

[vagrant brook]

stay on boss group and watch anime on the 2nd monitor

[keen spruce]

we're probably like 10-60 pulls away on dathea

got our first platform 2 and platform 3 tonight

[balmy condor]

real

that's been my broodkeeper experience

very fun boss

target dummy for 3 hours and still no kill and you do it again 2 days later

[keen spruce]

whispyr did u guys not kill it this week

[balmy condor]

not yet

we got monday

I'm losing my fucking mind bro

[keen spruce]

on one hand, i'm lookin forward to bein back on assas

on the other

brain rot

[balmy condor]

broodkeeper so boring I really be just sitting there in stream thinking about my life choices

wondering if that one girl from back in 4th grade still thinks about me

I've been in sensory deprivation tanks more engaging than that boss

[pastel onyx]

[signal badger]

Raza really fun tho

[balmy condor]

I don't believe you

I have heard so many horror stories

75 p1 wipes

and then 50 more in i1

I am not strong enough

[hollow river]

[vagrant brook]

Desyncing Vanish and DM is only worth it in the opener or is it slightly better overall to just cast them on CD?

[balmy condor]

sim is a scumbag and says on cooldown all the way through is better because it's averaging out the kill times and shit

but realistically you should desync opener and then sync

[vagrant brook]

thought so, but sims were casting them on CD

trying to min-max on broodkeeper xD

[thorny pond]

Baited by sims

me to me every tier
“Don’t get baited into fotms by ptr sim”

[signal badger]

2 minute wipes with everyone flying off the edge is fun 🙂

Watching the priests get rescued each knockback also fun

[keen spruce]

dathea not as fun as kurog

i'm ready to payphone brood and play assas again

i'm in the pirate gulag

[balmy condor]

nothing will be more as fun as kurog

kurog last fun fight in the raid

[wise plover]

did we win the chess game whisp?

[keen spruce]

and kurog probably the fight they goofed up the most too.

i wish they didn't have the big adds, but carried over the mechanics from one section to the next until intermission. and made the domination stack faster so you had to move

would have seen some cool shit in RWF where they had to play like 3 zones in p1 cuz of the domination stacks and just had to outplay mechanics

and casual guilds could still play one or 2 zones with CDs and gear

[balmy condor]

he hung a rook like 3 moves later

it's just converting now

[wise plover]

wp

[gaunt moat]

We finally got Dathea by actually only going 3 platforms.
only 4 healers.
3 DPS stay on boss, don't go up (was me, warlock and hunter)

I doubt i can afk too much on brood with me doing eggs and helping with tank soaks

[sudden canyon]

how do you guys prevent being knocked out of stealth when tank pulls mobs and waiting for them to gather

[gaunt moat]

stay a bit far from them, go in when there's at least like 4 targets gathered.
but sometimes it's not possible, like at the start of jade serpent temple, you instantly get out of stealth there, so i just rush in with sprint and apply garrote with the 3 seconds you get after stealth

[steel ridge]

everytime i think about how feral works i get sad

but then i remember i´ve got a 415 ilvl feral that does more damage than my main

[jade abyss]

Next addon will be ours

[steel ridge]

i am really curious what they have cooking to salvage assassination after deleting it from its premiere role as ST blaster

otherwise i might aswell just main feral for 10.1, but my RL probably doesnt approve

[gaunt moat]

ngl, I keep hearing how pimpin' feral is, i'm tempted to try leveling one

[steel ridge]

been leveling it at the end of shadowlands for nostalgia reasons

lowkey preparing it for df and when df came around kept it up to date mostly healing alt keys

since healing is what we needed most of the time

[gaunt moat]

people just saying how feral is what sin was supposed to be

[steel ridge]

thats how i would put it yeah

[gaunt moat]

how bleeds actually have SYNERGY with their stuff

[steel ridge]

primal wrath enables bite via procs

[gaunt moat]

And that cleaving dots is not a pain in the ass for little reward

[steel ridge]

bite hits all targets with rip for a percentage of damage

so its a full circle

[steel ridge]

feral is basically outlaw with bleeds

[gaunt moat]

hopefully with lower brain melting apm

[steel ridge]

you have only 1 ability that doesnt cleave, and that is shred

[steel ridge]

in ST its very slow, like old assassination

in AoE its frantic as hell

they even did for feral what they should have done for rogue... remove savage roar/slice and dice

feral is just all 3 rogue specs put into one working chassis

[grim jay]

[gaunt moat]

Can we make a petition for the druid dev to step into rogue dev cubicle

[steel ridge]

idk, at this point its just embaressing really. it didnt get much attention since feral has been a very low playerbase spec, but it doesnt change the impression that its the better rogue (minus cloak, tricks, shroud, blind/sap, numbing poison)

the druid skill trees got alot of movement during beta and live

while ours is just falling further and further behind in terms of modernization

[gaunt moat]

and performance

I'm starting to get mocked in guild for playing assassination

like i'm trolling

[steel ridge]

nah its not at that point

i am mostly playing assassination and its fine

but the ST is not where it should be, considering the AoE is pretty much nonexistent

[royal lantern]

yep 🙂

[gaunt moat]

i also think it's fine, especially with overgearing.
and our survivability is great.
but we're pretty much the lowest of the "boss damage" classes

[grim jay]

Not on bossdamage tho

Just dont look at overall

[gaunt moat]

reread what i wrote

[steel ridge]

our affliction warlock gave me a good run for my money yesterday on diurna prog

[grim jay]

It doesnt state the graph you are looking at tbf 😁

[steel ridge]

take away my windfury totem buff, then i am in shambles

most of the other ST specs dont care about WF

[royal lantern]

windfury is a mistake, change my mind

crucial raidutility beeing SPEC bound is just stupid

should either be a general shaman thing, or not a thing at all

[steel ridge]

yeah windfury totem is horrible, its a design relic

but without it our damage would be in the gutter

[gaunt moat]

And also only a party buff in a raid

[royal lantern]

i mean, my main Problem is how much it restricts the raid comp

[royal lantern]

but hey, we get mandatory 2paladins next Patch

so we know blizzards stance on that

[steel ridge]

dont look at damage to bosses

look at terros

[gaunt moat]

look at terros, dathea. kurog..

[steel ridge]

dathea and kurog are aoe fights

so numbers are scuffed even tho aoe doesnt matter much

terros is the only metric in that raid that reflects true ST potential

thats what you wanna look at

[jade abyss]

Survival lol

[grim jay]

Sin still 5th on terros. I'd say it is better on progress than on the killtimes you get by now aswell

[gaunt moat]

just look how much further hunters are.
the fact they gave them a 5% aura buff is baffling.

[steel ridge]

not really for me

progress killtime was horrible

[jade abyss]

Get cataclysm flashbacks

[steel ridge]

yep absolutely madness

whoever decided to give hunters a 5% aura buff was absolutely drunk

[gaunt moat]

is really puts into question how does their balancing procedure works

[grim jay]

Same but you get a good deal of value out of execute in progress and the killtimes now are just as bad as our progress killtime, atleast the 5-6min

[steel ridge]

but you can see feral in full ST spec is really close to sin rogue

[grim jay]

MM buff was fine

[steel ridge]

while having absolute savage aoe

[grim jay]

But else

[steel ridge]

yeah MM was fine

[steel ridge]

our terros killtime is now around 5:30 or something, puts my puzzlebox right into execute

5:10 actually, just looked up

isnt it beautiful?

[gaunt moat]

I died yesterday the moment we got to execute, so.. huhuhue

and up to then, the sub rogue did more

[grim jay]

Optimal killtime there wouldve been like 4:40ish ? 😁

[shrewd night]

Its just to compensate for the inevitable nerf to specific skills

[steel ridge]

yeah something just shy of 5 minutes

[gaunt moat]

nono, it's because primordial gems gonna make sin a beast

[steel ridge]

hard cope

[shrewd night]

Next legendary is a dagger, I can feel it in my bones

[grim jay]

Gonna loot it 1 week before next tier

[jade abyss]

And it dropp on the first boss !

[grim jay]

And the Boss will be dreadlord jaina

[jade abyss]

With tentakels?

[grim jay]

Yes

And the dagger will be a tentacle aswell

Like the last form of the old legendary dagger but with more tentacle and less dagger

[jade abyss]

Nice

And the boss scream uwu and senpai when it reaches 75 50 25% hp

[grim jay]

[jade abyss]

Sorry its monday

[grim jay]

I actually found out that bigwigs has a moan alert yesterday

[jade abyss]

I have that cat soundeffect and my cats gets confuses everytime when its play

[steel ridge]

got that cougar growl whenever i get a bite proc

angry meow

[balmy condor]

You recorded my mom?

[spice spire]

Huh

[balmy condor]

He said he got that cougar growl

I was just curious how he got a recording of my mom

[spice spire]

He’s in ur walls

[balmy condor]

My mom lives 2 hours away bud

[spice spire]

She’s visited before pal

[balmy condor]

She’s not real

[shrewd night]

Lets get our definitions straight

Your mom or mommy?

[spice spire]

[jade abyss]

xD

[balmy condor]

My mommy lives way further than 2 hours away, I checked

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

What’s confusing

[spice spire]

Yes

I’m going back to sleeep

[shrewd night]

Have fun with your sleep paralysis demon, king

[spice spire]

My sleep paralysis demon is whispyr without the cat ears

[steel ridge]

OOF

[balmy condor]

I thought your sleep paralysis demon is my toenail fungus

[shrewd night]

...

[spice spire]

[steel ridge]

whispyrs mom

[balmy condor]

He remembers

Quake knows

[steel ridge]

i cannot even

...

[spice spire]

I wish I did not

[steel ridge]

WHAT

[spice spire]

Gn

[balmy condor]

[steel ridge]

whispyr are you holding vanish for shroud on diurna?

or are you just cloaking the overlapping shrouds

when shroud syncs with the big aoe stuff

[balmy condor]

Fuck no

There’s one nasty overlap at like 7 minutes that I cloak

Everything else I just stack on the tank

[steel ridge]

good

kinda went like cloak on overlaps and just feint every big aoe and be done with it

healthpot when it gets nasty and then the add group fucks something up and its a wipe

good life

[balmy condor]

Wait what

Shroud is p2

[steel ridge]

shroud is in p1 aswell, just no freeze

you still get the heal absorb

[balmy condor]

Oh

[steel ridge]

and the negligable slow

[balmy condor]

Healer mechanic

Who cares

[shrewd night]

https://tenor.com/view/battle-for-azeroth-world-of-warcraft-heros-gif-12331181

[balmy condor]

Like actually though

[steel ridge]

looking at the logs i am not 100% sure feint even works on the aoe

[balmy condor]

I have no clue when those happen

[steel ridge]

i have 20% mitigated, which might aswell be cloak

[steel ridge]

proper attack bot

[balmy condor]

Our healers just have CDs assigned and it’s chilling

[steel ridge]

yeah we sunk in 38 wipes into that boss yesterday and it didnt seem like chilling

[balmy condor]

I think theres like 2 places I feint

[steel ridge]

sometimes even dropping into cheat

[balmy condor]

One towards the start, and one like a minute later

Those are egg pops

Those hurt

So I feint those

But idk if it’s shrouds on top and that’s why they hurt?

4 and 8

Are the yucky ones

[steel ridge]

yeah those are the ones

[balmy condor]

I just press feint for those

[steel ridge]

haha we got the same picture just with a paladin instead of mage

Set 4 is where i cloak

and a later Set, no idea which one, maybe 11

[balmy condor]

11 is fine

I honestly don’t cloak in p1 unless I’m fucking dying

I feint the big ouchies and everything else is just aoe heals

And passive trickle healing

[shrewd night]

only legitimate reason to cloak on that fight is on the beam/freeze overlap

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I cloak in p2

[steel ridge]

we have yet to even reach p2

first evening

[gaunt moat]

and are you guys doing eggs?

[steel ridge]

i was on hc, but on mythic not anymore

probably too much downtime involved

[gaunt moat]

I was told I'm gonna do it. so rip dps.

[shrewd night]

What, dont you have hunters, mages, paladins, dks?

Are you that stripped on classes?

[steel ridge]

why is mage a good class for eggs?

[fleet imp]

Yes doing eggs as assa, boss died yesterday

[gaunt moat]

we had like 3 mages and 2 hunters and a DK
not sure why me

[steel ridge]

bm hunters i can see

[royal lantern]

probably stripped on players that do mechanics

[shrewd night]

[viscid spear]

Fire & Arcane sure, Frost hell no.

[royal lantern]

how much raid dmg is 3eggs on mythic again?

[balmy condor]

Some ouchie

[balmy condor]

They can just blink behind it

[balmy condor]

I don’t

[royal lantern]

"use feint" ouchie

or "healer problem" ouchie

[balmy condor]

I don’t use feint on 3

I just use it for 4 and 8

[shrewd night]

Feint is dpsloss

[balmy condor]

We had some pulls with a 4 egg set, which was real rough

But we got through it with healer cds

But 3 is usually fine

The one set of 2 we do at break 10 is actually just a tickle

It’s crazy how little damage that one does

[royal lantern]

yes, but im a stupid dps player that sometimes uses it anyway

fancy spin and stuff

[shrewd night]

detection > feint

[royal lantern]

imagine if you could macro them togheter

[normal mist]

You'd turn into a beyblade

[grim jay]

You would just let out a warcry and start bladestorming

[near magnet]

hello there any bonespike mouseover macros?

[fleet imp]

If you type the exact same words on google you find it in method website

#showtooltip Serrated Bone Spike
/cast [@mouseover,harm,nodead][] Serrated Bone Spike

[near magnet]

thanks a lot mate

[spice spire]

Gm

[shrewd night]

Quake

[devout mirage]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[green juniper]

Finally heroic rasz down, my mate who is like 6 ilvl lower than me did more damage than me but its fine. He plays rogue for years and i started this game last month i’ll get there

[limpid ermine]

gz on AOTC 🙂

[pseudo hamlet]

Training makes perfect mate. GZ on that kill! 😄

[spice spire]

Gz homie

[thorn fjord]

I've been dooming all weekend

Its sick getting out dpsed on ST by a BM on brood

[broken stump]

My brain is incredibly slow and I could do with training wheels - how bad is Hekili for Assassination?

[thorn fjord]

Pretty bad

For OL too

Uses GCD's in the wrong spot

[broken stump]

F**k. That's a shame

[slow marsh]

Just sit at a training dummy for a while and cycle through your stuff

[thorn fjord]

Yeah the most complicated part is opener and DM rotation... once you get the muscle memory for it you'll be fine

Follow basic Pandemic rules and you're gucci

[broken stump]

Will have to give it a try. I typically only get enough time to do 1-2 dungeons a week due to other commitments so I get into a M+ dungeon and my brain turns to 💩 trying to keep things up on loads of targets

[slow marsh]

Plater and tab are your friends

[thorn fjord]

@broken stump sub may also be a good option for you if you're only able to run a few a week... Easier rotation

[broken stump]

I'll take a look at that too - thanks @thorn fjord

[outer cairn]

pull up the opener in the faq on a separate screen if you got one and look at it. Go slow on the dummies and start picking up speed. Say each ability out loud as you go to cast it. Repetition creates muscle memory. Whispyr or Cev's plater profile are good for tracking bleeds on targets. Tab target or mouse over macros for your bleeds.

[broken stump]

Thanks @outer cairn - I don't suppose you could point me at Whispyr's plater profile? Can't seem to find it on wago

[outer cairn]

!plater

[brazen zodiac]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[brazen zodiac]

hm

[outer cairn]

yeah that's the wa

i thought there was one for plater

!pl

https://wago.io/t6bI_B9wi

https://wago.io/gf0Dg_Ujr

[broken stump]

Oh nice - Ceverion's looks fairly similar to how I have my plater looking already, so that might be less jarring to swap to

[thorn fjord]

Will plater fuck up my elvui profile @outer cairn?

[outer cairn]

I don't use Elvui so I can't give you an honest answer

[spice spire]

No

It asks you if you want to use elv or player

[weak isle]

disable elvui nameplates and enable plater nameplates

and it wont fk up anything

[thorn fjord]

So if i want to use plater just disable name plates in Elvui?

[spice spire]

You choose plater and move on

[thorn fjord]

ah ok tty

[outer cairn]

ask and you shall receive

[thorn fjord]

I actually deleted my rogues elvui profile on Fri by mistake lol

So i had to backup from an old one... Might try plater

[outer cairn]

Lot of info on both, but I primarily use it to track the bleeds and if using bone spike the name bar turning green is clutch

[molten galleon]

HWsy is Outlaw so ahead in the Kurog fight mh

[spice spire]

It’s constant cleave fight

Outlaw good at constant cleave

[outer cairn]

Yeah I mean its really simple. Maintain your current rotation and if Total Targets = 1, don't press BF. If Total Targets is 1 >, press BF. Continue to face roll your keyboard and maintain BF. Winning until your carpel tunnel becomes unbearable.

[tribal quest]

What’s a good level of haste to have for pure ST? Mostly play sub so my stats are heavier crit/mast only 7% haste, still getting used to assassination but I feel like I have way to much downtime waiting on energy and I’m not sure if it’s a rotation issue or haste issue

[thorn fjord]

My haste is sitting around 14-15% I believe

[spice spire]

Whatever the robot says

If you’re sitting around but ur shit is hitting way harder

Then it’s worth sitting around

[weak isle]

sin has a little energy pool gameplay

[tribal quest]

I’m doing like 70k on m Terros but I feel like I’m just sitting there doing nothing a bunch lol

[broken stump]

That's CEO-mode @tribal quest. Getting paid to sit around doing nothing

[strange python]

I'm looking at single target rotation here and it says to combo deathmark with vanish

does it mean to to use deathmark after vanish -> garrote?

or am I missing something?

[viscid spear]

[broken stump]

I was just reading the same thing, I took it to be: Vanish -> Garrote -> Deathmark

[thorny pond]

Yep!

[broken stump]

Are most people fine with using Slice & Dice? I'm very new to Rogue and it just seems to be one of those annoying buttons that isn't satisfying at all, but you have to do it at least once a fight just to get it rolling then forget it exists. It's kinda bleh it having a keybind at all

[thorny pond]

You have to. Huge loss to not

[strange python]

^

[thorny pond]

You put it up once in opener then it extends itself

Cut to the Chase talent

[royal lantern]

you didnt read what he said

lol

[thorny pond]

Without SnD it feels worse

[broken stump]

Oh yeah, sure - I just mean that I don't quite get why it's even a button at that point. Why not just make Envenom give you it if it only costs a single GCD in the first place?

[thorny pond]

Do I wish they baked it in

Sure, but we are so low on buttons it’s like meh

[royal lantern]

say thanks to the BIG UNPRUNING from shadowlands

[royal lantern]

huh

rogue has 1of the highest ammount of buttons

[thorny pond]

We don’t really have all that much

Rotationally?

Utility is a different story

[royal lantern]

like, priest and shaman have more, but thats it iirc

[magic vine]

i dabble around in other classes and rogue is definitely one of the higher ones

[royal lantern]

dude, most classes have 3-4 rotational ability lol

[broken stump]

Rotationally it didn't seem like there were that many but I actually felt a little overwhelmed by how many keybinds I had for various utility and defensive spells

[thorny pond]

ST we have like 7 buttons. SnD you hit once

[thorny pond]

My brain works categorically. Any time I set up a new spec I make a “pile”. Rotational, cooldowns offensive, cooldowns defensive, utility/CC

Rogue probably has the largest buckets but like sin rogue rotation is lower APM so you can kinda get into a better flow. Do need to get creative binds/mmo mouse

[broken stump]

I think that's where my challenge is - I do similar so my Shift+1-4 tend to be defensives, but I felt like there were way more things than just 4 so I struggled to work out where to put things. I've been playing enhance for a while so all I have there is Healing Surge and Astral Shift

Crimson Vial, Cloak, Feint, god knows whatever else

[thorny pond]

Feint cloak big two. Vial good to have handy

But like shroud you can put on random away key

Pick pocket, lock pick too

[broken stump]

Maybe I should just stick Vial closer to where I'd keep my healthstones and stuff rather than with the defensives

[thorny pond]

Depends how you view it

[broken stump]

I guess it's similar to vanish - I've previously considered that a defensive but actually it's probably more of an offensive CD

[thorny pond]

If you always use like x y z for all toons for pots and stones etc, I wouldn’t change that

For example, when I ply priest fade is the same bind as feint for my rogue

Desperate prayer is same as vial

So less to think about what is there just that “oh this bind heals me”

[broken stump]

To be honest, this might be where my inexperience with Rogue comes in. Is Feint considered as big a defensive as things like Astral Shift? Because it reduces AOE damage I've never considered it to be that useful, but I imagine most people consider it to be one of the best abilities Rogues have

[thorny pond]

Feint is great utility but low CD and energy cost put it in a weird spot since it’s a GCD. I feel less bad pressing it on sin vs the other specs but knowing when best to use it as opposed to “on CD” is one of those learning things

During prog, it’s basically on CD since my healers are monkeys

[thorn fjord]

Feint is literally our best button

[thorny pond]

I’m not hitting it in +3s Dieslow

Or heroic

[vestal wren]

cloak of shadows is best for me

[broken stump]

I think I need to redo my keybinds with this in mind. I picked up Rogue at the start of DF but put it down in favour of my Shaman and now I'm looking to go back to it so I'm pretty much totally clueless as far as Rogue goes

[thorn fjord]

@thorny pond oh for sure... i just butted into this convo with no context lol

[broken stump]

This has all helped a lot - thanks @thorny pond

[thorny pond]

Dathea prog? I wish cloak had feints cd and wish I could spam feint

I’ll waste a tea to feint vial, idgaf

[thorn fjord]

Brood Prog

Id die every pull if it wasnt for feint

[broken stump]

Mythic?

[thorn fjord]

yeah

[thorny pond]

I got sub’d for brood

But I get grief torch when it drops first so win I guess?

[thorn fjord]

I got lucky.. they put our sub rogue on adds... i get to face smash brood playing sin

Did not want to pirate on adds

[thorny pond]

Our OT can’t get adds without my tricks

And our hunters got boss for some reason

[thorn fjord]

OT needs to be a bdk then 😛

That sucks tho

[thorny pond]

BDK on boss, warrior on adds

[thorn fjord]

well because BM ST beats us on that fight and its annoying

[thorny pond]

I don’t make the rules

[thorn fjord]

So makes sense they have em on boss

[thorny pond]

Yea but I’m better

[thorn fjord]

Im better than our BM too and he still out DPS' me until my third DM

😦

[thorny pond]

Dathea only died bc I said I’m done doing adds, you can send me but I’m not aoeing anymore

1 shot

Top ST DPS behind UH DK

[broken stump]

In an ideal world, would you just play Outlaw for anything non-ST?

Because I really don't get on with Outlaw

[thorny pond]

Nah. Sub does well in big AoE

Sin can too, just a lot of ST given up

[thorn fjord]

I got to sit boss for Dathea too lol.... Grimtotem tho was a similar story to this... i was running OL for cleave all of prog... We hit enrage at like 11% so i swapped sin and we killed next pull

[thorny pond]

Rip

Are you me?

[thorn fjord]

Seems like it lol

[thorny pond]

Deep prog, AoE specs will just go turbo brain and do more if we swap off to ST I guess

[spice spire]

Mister beach, DN

[thorn fjord]

Just really triggers me being behind the BM on ST

Behind the UHDK? Fine i'll take that

But the BM naaaah man miss me with that shitg

[thorny pond]

Nah. BM is our soul brother. “Ez spec GG”

[thorn fjord]

Just got my DK to 70 last night... I'm gonna be living the UH dream soon

Maybe if i play the fotm it'll get nerfed and Rogue will see better days

Kinda like the end of Nathria

@gusty mirage How come you guys decided to run 3 rogues on Raz?

[gusty mirage]

ask @gray crest

[gray crest]

Lmao

[broken stump]

Looks like DTB is the only M+ build in the FAQ. It says that you can drop Exsang for Improved Poisons 2nd point for raid, but for M+ it doesn't. Is that just because it's needed for Iron Wire?

[gusty mirage]

yeah

[gray crest]

Our dk stopped raiding and our warrior rerolled rogue

[gusty mirage]

if you're playing without iron wire in m+

you're kinda trolling

if you don't wanna play with exsang you can take master assassin into IW

[broken stump]

I'll probably do that instead - thanks

[gusty mirage]

I play MA over exsang as well

mostly because 3 minute CDs are awkward in m+

[broken stump]

IDK it just also feels like it's not good enough to justify only having it once every 3 minutes but again, my experience is limited

[gusty mirage]

imo it's only worth if you have a priest with you to PI you on the exsang

but that's just feelcraft on my end

just doesn't seem particularly impactful enough to justify another keybind

and @thorn fjord tbf I've tried getting benched

but I was told "no fucking chance"

so

[vestal wren]

oxi too handsome to get benched

[gusty mirage]

you'd appreciate my conversation with our GM

"Jet after raz is dead I quit"

"No you're not"

lol

I think roujin was there for that

[vestal wren]

well you didn't quit yet

[gray crest]

You told me earlier but I wasn't there

[vestal wren]

so he did know how to handle you ^^

[molten galleon]

xrevfrvgrvgr

[gusty mirage]

I agree

xrevfrvgrvgr indeed

[vestal wren]

i assume cat?

[molten galleon]

😄 I have no clue, sorry about that lolbut ye xrevfrvgrvgr
indeed

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/gigachad-chad-gif-20773266

[thorn fjord]

3 months in to the tier and he’s so over it