assassination

[royal lantern]

not really

AP is just BAD bad

[untold crag]

so which ones

[balmy condor]

It's like

[untold crag]

from faq

[balmy condor]

slightly better

[grim jay]

I'm pretty sure most people arent 14/16 421 and most people dont even do 20s for weekly

[untold crag]

should i run

for dung + and raids in future

[balmy condor]

okay

I'm gonna say this gently

[full coral]

[balmy condor]

there is 1 raid build in the faq

and there are 2 m+ builds

[untold crag]

Yes

is there a build that works for both

[balmy condor]

and one of them says in bold "not recommended"

[untold crag]

from those 3

[balmy condor]

so

I'm going to tell you

to run the raid build

in raid

[hollow escarp]

also not playing carnage in M+

[balmy condor]

and the recommended one

in m+

[untold crag]

So i swap between

[balmy condor]

yes

[untold crag]

talents

?

[balmy condor]

that's the point

if you didn't need to swap

there wouldn't be 2 builds

would there

[raven knoll]

Most people arent 14/16 but that is next patch most people will be 14/16 or better since next patch is in like a month or two. And people who are not clearing +20s for weekly the gems are something to help them achieve that.

[grim jay]

Most people dont even kill many heroic bosses, but we already had that discussion at one point. People being 14/16 421 are just a small fraction at any point so its not surprising "having nothing new to do/get" at that point

[royal lantern]

not even 5% of the raiding playerbase has curve

[grim jay]

Right

[royal lantern]

you are allready in the top 1% with 3mythic kills

[grim jay]

Thats like League where people say d4 is nothing special bcs they do it casually but in actuality its like what

Top 0.2%?

[royal lantern]

you mean because a streamer they watch is d2

[grim jay]

That aswell

[vestal cliff]

Is there a leaderbord for raiding?

[shrewd night]

[raven knoll]

I mean I see it from my view. I do not mind I see nothing bad from this it should only help players achieve their goals or give players something to do. Lets just see how they implement it and we will see if it is grindfest or not. Most people do not even raid so top 1% from everyone and top 1% of ppl who have at least cleared LFR is different . Thats the same with league most people do not even play ranked games.

[balmy condor]

in terms of?

[vestal cliff]

Which guilds are the best / have killed the most bosses

[balmy condor]

https://raider.io/vault-of-the-incarnates/rankings/world/mythic

it's a pretty big event every tier

[plucky dock]

Is there a soft cap on how much mastery/crit i should have?

[balmy condor]

nope

didn't even read the stats

don't care

[shrewd night]

No, the softcap is what your sims tell you to gear

[plucky dock]

Haha okey thanks

[balmy condor]

I have no clue what my stats are

[royal lantern]

im convinced you have more then 34% crit

[balmy condor]

I actually could not tell you

[royal lantern]

i mean, probs yes if you are somewhat crit heavy

the secondary numbers this expac are crazy

[balmy condor]

I crafted haste maste cloak

and I'm gemmed haste..... uh

idk what the secondary is on my gems

[royal lantern]

we allready have 40-48% crit on our generators or something

thats why 2cp ER is shit sometimes

its probs also why they do a shit "totally not domination shards, trus me bro" thing, unless they want us to get 80% crit and 900%mastery on some specs in the last tier

[shrewd night]

Just use shiv to get the 2px

[balmy condor]

[raven knoll]

BTW do you ever use FoK to reach 2cp when animacharged?

[shrewd night]

Can I get a HAWWWWWH YEEEEEEEAH

[fleet imp]

You ambush the 2 cp

[balmy condor]

you never force animacharged

ever

with anything

[raven knoll]

ok

[flint tusk]

just use literally any other ability shiv crit, or non crit with literally anything. it happens if it happens

[vestal cliff]

I always get my animacharged points so fast it just feels nice

[royal lantern]

i dont hit 2cp 3-4x in a raidnight

sbs and ambush always crit during er, ngl

[vestal cliff]

I always get it with shiv

[dapper flint]

man haste jumped in value for me and now all my gems must be with +haste (considering i play sub in m+ and sin in raids), sadge

[balmy condor]

I would just stay crit/mast if you play both

it's not that much of a loss

[dapper flint]

haste is 4.75 and crit 3.75 T_T (ye, stat weights are bad)

[dapper flint]

well i guess so

[balmy condor]

I mean

that's a difference of 1 dps

regemming everything would net you like

what

maybe 250?

[dapper flint]

bbut muh 95%

[balmy condor]

brother we're talking like 99.9

[dapper flint]

wouldnt lariat proc change net more btw?

[balmy condor]

yeah but eventually it's too much haste again

so

[dapper flint]

ye you right. So praying for sin to be as good and as braindead as sub in m+ for full switch (but again haste is bad for sin in m+, shit)

[balmy condor]

just don't bother

min maxing secondaries like that is giga not worth

[dapper flint]

ok ty

i'll just pretend im 41%+ crit enjoyer

[grim jay]

Imagine calling the spec braindead

[slim hamlet]

i dont think thats what he meant

unless u talking about sub which is factual

[grim jay]

I have that struggle sometimes aswell

[rich stream]

sub in m+ is pretty braindead

[grim jay]

The factual thing is that many people stating that wouldnt even do it right

[slim hamlet]

1-2-1-2-1-2 oh shit rup running out 1-3-1-3

and dont come with "but danse macabre tho" because it adds a whole 3 buttons

Not shitting on the spec, it's just factual that it is very easy in m+ comparibly

[rich stream]

I mean, I would argue all 3 rogue specs are pretty braindead in aoe

[slim hamlet]

Well outlaw has lots of procs and sin has lots of timers

thats at least something

[grim jay]

You say that like you do much more somewhere else. You spread rupture with no target cap, have obvious decisionmaking involved and have your dance to work around.
Outlaw literally fury warrior levels of braindead

And sin doesnt do much more than sub either

[slim hamlet]

I mean no

but its ok

[royal lantern]

all dps specs sniff glue

accept it

[rich stream]

true

[grim jay]

Biased people do sniff the most tho

[slim hamlet]

spriest has quite a lot of conditions, certainly the hardest m+ spec I've played yet

[royal lantern]

im special, i eat glue

[slim hamlet]

idk if this was sent towards me?

[kind forge]

bUt My SpeC iS hArDeR

[grim jay]

No it was in general

X easy Y harder is pretty stupid, braindead aside

[slim hamlet]

I mean yeah but remember to check if u are biased yourself before typing that

[royal lantern]

[slim hamlet]

Only half a pepe

weak

[grim jay]

Read up what I answered most of the time if people asked which is more difficult or easier

And decide for yourself if I'm biased

[royal lantern]

i cant be biased, cus my opinion is always correct

[slim hamlet]

Fact

[subtle tundra]

look at me pull 421 shoulders from my 1 weekly reward

[slim hamlet]

I got feet 🙂

Already had good feet

[rich stream]

421 socketed belt

[slim hamlet]

Last 4 weeks have been horrendous

[subtle tundra]

well i have 1 reward

[weak crescent]

I just want the ring and i might as well not even recieve any more vaults :I

[subtle tundra]

fk you

[grim jay]

Getting M Icon 3 times in vault but no eramog M ring is a meme at this point

[slim hamlet]

Those are the ones I had before in 415

Got the HoV ones in 421 now

I swear the icon has higher drop chance in vault than anything else

[rich stream]

true

[slim hamlet]

My guildies always have it in their screenshots

unironically at least 50% of the time

[rich stream]

half my raid team has it at 421

[grim jay]

And it never drops

Think we had it once

Some people didnt drop one at all in their groups

[slim hamlet]

idk whats going on with our raids, but the "very rare" loot is just flodding our drops

We have gotten mythic eggnog ring all weeks but 1 and all weeks heroic

[grim jay]

We probably had 2 or 3 crossbows on eranog each week

[slim hamlet]

Only one we havnt been lucky with is diurna ring

[grim jay]

[rich stream]

I've seen the terros dagger 3 times in a row

[slim hamlet]

I got eggnog crossbow for transmog 2nd week of mythic

[rich stream]

I'm the only rogue

[slim hamlet]

Bro dont complain

I havnt seen anything higher than heroic terros

[royal lantern]

meanwhile my.team saw the trinket on l difficultys 4x in total

[slim hamlet]

And that was like week 4

[royal lantern]

still normal torch btw

[grim jay]

I need to share my loot with a filthy outlaw

[slim hamlet]

Ew

[royal lantern]

we ONLY drop the DH/DK/WARLOCK tier token on all bosses

[slim hamlet]

We were only me on rogue and suddenly this week we are 3

Not that there is any loot I actually care about anymore

Like mythic kurog/diurna trink and dagger

[rich stream]

I was gonna play outlaw this tier, but my entire raid is a bunch of padders, so I instead pad on boss damage parses

[slim hamlet]

But we are only 10% spooder right now sooo

[grim jay]

Im literally reclearing for m eranog ring and m cct the whole time

[subtle tundra]

so happy prog is over

[slim hamlet]

Oh also mythic eggnog ring yea

But I have heroic now so prob wont get it in a long time

[grim jay]

Same but vault

[flint tusk]

but meh sims!

[slim hamlet]

M eggnog ring is banned in vault

it doesnt exist

[subtle tundra]

man can this blizzard

buff assa m+

already

[slim hamlet]

no lol

[grim jay]

3 people got it from vault

2 have it with socket

[slim hamlet]

I missed our reclear raid this week so didnt even have a chance

sadge

[grim jay]

One had it a 2nd time

[royal lantern]

they look at heroic logs with 2min kill timers, assa looks good there and then think the spec is fine, wdym

[slim hamlet]

🙂

[subtle tundra]

probably coping themselves that assa is good just sub and outlaw are 20% better so nobody plays it

[grim jay]

Where is the UH nerf then?

[rich stream]

nah, 4 min so they get the 2nd burst with zoldyc

[grim jay]

[slim hamlet]

I mean if the other specs wasnt that good sin wouldnt look that bad tbh

Its not like sin giga sucks ass standalone

Just not on par with omega meta specs

[grim jay]

I mean you could say the same about surv

[olive peak]

dunno about u by my sin sims like 9k higher than sub

[slim hamlet]

Not really, I think u get my point

[rich stream]

Sin only shines in single target, which this raid surprisingly lacks

[grim jay]

[subtle tundra]

this is about m+, and also who fucking knows what youre simming

[rich stream]

every boss other than terros has adds

[slim hamlet]

It doesnt even 🙂

[grim jay]

Wait a sec

[olive peak]

ah didnt see u guys weretalking about M+

[slim hamlet]

Its like a bit further ahead in ST than sub but not much

[slim hamlet]

How did u make an image with that small amount of pixels

That is impressing

[grim jay]

Dont ask me

Probably bcs I didnt zoom

And just cut it out

On phone

[slim hamlet]

Frost defo needed 5% buff as we can see

[rich stream]

wl has sin higher

[slim hamlet]

"oh but we are oversimming"

[grim jay]

Do a 1 week ranking instead of 2

[slim hamlet]

I mean that isnt how it works

U are looking at dmg to bosses

[grim jay]

But ye its smth else

[slim hamlet]

So funnel specs and specially council + brood fight fucks it up a lot

[royal lantern]

you look at boss dmg overall

other specs do adds and lose boss dmg cus of that

assa cant even do these adda

[slim hamlet]

Also many underplayed classes that might be good (like frost mage) is looking worse on logs than they should

[grim jay]

Its still worse bcs 2 weeks aswell

Make it 1 week and look at it

[rich stream]

you right

[slim hamlet]

I mean we can agree that sin isn't in a good state, but just don't prove it with overall boss dmg logs

Also werent we talking about m+

I am confused now

[grim jay]

Its still fine if you prog bcs execute and bossdmg matters there

[slim hamlet]

execute matter on like 2 fights

[grim jay]

Prog = more people dead at kill

[rich stream]

^

[slim hamlet]

so?

[rich stream]

execute has more value

[slim hamlet]

I mean yea, but u prob wont kill it with 2 people alive for 20 minutes

[grim jay]

So you might end up killing or not depending on if you deal more damage thus giving your guys and girls less time to fail

Nah not 2

[slim hamlet]

Yea I guess

Anyways werent we talking about m+

make exsang aoe 🙂

[rich stream]

give us an aoe cd kekw

[grim jay]

People would hate the shit out of it

[kind forge]

make PB proc from all finisher

[dreamy gull]

I don't get why exsang needs a 3 minute cd

[slim hamlet]

That would buff our st a lot too

[vapid sierra]

Remove exsang

[slim hamlet]

because otherwise it would be giga broken 🙂

[vapid sierra]

Hurts me head

[rich stream]

I mean, just make PB 20% chance per combo point (and nerf it in pvp)

[grim jay]

Give sin BF

[slim hamlet]

Why not just buff aoe instead of doing all of this weird stuff

[dreamy gull]

It's ok for sin to be broken

I'll allow it

[static glacier]

sin is fine as it is

[raven knoll]

Just buff CT bleed by 50% if it hits 3 or more targets

[flint tusk]

do people forget that exsang increased our ST by 7% when it was 45 second CD

[slim hamlet]

not in m+

[kind forge]

i dont hink it would be that bad

[worn geyser]

Is there a point in macro thistle brew into shiv?

[static glacier]

it's fine there too

being off meta doesn't mean you're not fine

[flint tusk]

never do this

[slim hamlet]

I mean

Do i care a shit about being fine

at all

No I want to be playing my spec and not feel like im gimping myself compared to my alternatives

Thats all

[grim jay]

They could just make envenom cleave on all shiv'ed targets, would make AP better aswell

[static glacier]

I mean you could just cope that iron wire makes sin worth

[flint tusk]

ooo i like this idea

[slim hamlet]

That would actually be cool

[slim hamlet]

That's what I'm currently doing

[dreamy gull]

What if they just make ap one shot all enemies it hits

[slim hamlet]

But then I play with veng dh that slams int sigil on pull no matter what I tell him

[dreamy gull]

[grim jay]

Might even actually make it competitive and solve cleave all in one

[subtle tundra]

or i play with a tank that takes 10 seconds into the pull to chain the 2nd pack

and i fucking want to end it

[slim hamlet]

Would still be giga awful in st

[subtle tundra]

and its like

cool

[slim hamlet]

Would rather they just buff bleed dmg on ap

[subtle tundra]

why am i assa

[flint tusk]

where is the rogue dev to see this suggestion!

[slim hamlet]

THIS

THIIIIIIS

Everytime they just wanna do the weirdest ass chain pull

[static glacier]

there's a reason I stopped playing sin in keys 🙂

[slim hamlet]

Pull some then wait for NO REASON 5 seconds

[subtle tundra]

assa has all of these disadvantages and even when none happen its worse than outlaw/sub

[slim hamlet]

Even on bolstering this happens

[subtle tundra]

its fucking bullshit

[slim hamlet]

Its obviously because theyre not used to play with sin, but even without sin why does half of pug tanks do that

[regal nymph]

Considering how degenerate sub rotation on aoe is

It is bs

[grim jay]

I actually always suggested making AP hit 3 or 4 targets but buffing effects instead. Depending on the effect it would then be viable in ST and env cleaving would still be fine

[flint tusk]

i mean it's not the worse rotation

least you have to actually do stuff

[dreamy gull]

I would rather sin just have insane st

Than buffing cleave

[subtle tundra]

assa used to be insane 2t

but then they decided to make it energy saturated so 2t is the same apm as 1t

and to balance high apm we do less dmg on our abilities

[dreamy gull]

Not every spec needs to be good at everything
It just needs to be good enough at what it does to be considered for inclusion

[static glacier]

they've accepted this whole spec is good at st isn't good in the modern game

look at feral

[slim hamlet]

Imo making AP hit 8 targets hopefully smart logic or whatever its called to targets with rup/garrote, buff it by like 10-20% too would be sooo nice for sin in m+. Another thing I would like (which wont happen) is spiteful not putting u in combat, that legit only matters for rogue and specifically sin. Last thing would be IC being smart cast, it doesn't matter much but having to cast garrote with IC and then having to speedrun finding which mobs didn't get it sucks

[static glacier]

was better than balance for st in nathria, never saw play

[dreamy gull]

I mean

[flint tusk]

that's the issue we are absolutel trash tier for cleave

they will NEVER make sin insane ST as people from every other spec would cry as people only sim for single target

[dreamy gull]

Sin "has aoe"

It's just not that good

[flint tusk]

AOE does not equal cleave

[vapid sierra]

^

[static glacier]

having strong 2-3 target was a thing sin used to have sadly

[slim hamlet]

I dont even think these changes would make us specially meta but certainly infinitely better to play

[vapid sierra]

Sin is doing pretty good in voti

M+is a struggle

[slim hamlet]

Thats why I only target aoe/cleave stuff

Our pure st is good

Everything else sucks compared

[static glacier]

maybe our aoe will come in 10.2 with exsang changes kek

[vapid sierra]

As much as I want that to happen it won’t

[dreamy gull]

I would like if fan of knives did more damage

Personally

[grim jay]

Yeah good but noone will be like "need more ST? Lets get a sin for our group!"

[static glacier]

just remove the abomination that is ct, give us a real aoe spender

that one disgusting spell has kneecapped sin's aoe potential for so long

[grim jay]

Toxic powder, BP in green

[flint tusk]

100% bomb procs works well for that but they seem to keep balancing PB around single target

like wtf if ST is over performing change the ST abilities not our semi aoe/cleave ones!

[static glacier]

they need a way for CPs / energy to actually have value in aoe

[feral rivet]

Feral was amazing for ST anf shit aoe all SL, now its amazing aoe (big aoe that is) and shit everywhere else instead 🙂

[static glacier]

this idea that 1 cast of CT does something every 14 secs is a fucking meme

[feral rivet]

Still doesnt see play cause their profile sucks for vault
They were really good in sepulcher tho

[dreamy gull]

Druid cringe >:[

(however I am planning to make one)

[static glacier]

honestly if sin was in feral's spot and rogue had feral, feral would have historically seen a bunch more play

having a ranged OS is a curse for any melee spec to have

[feral rivet]

Quite likely yes

It does see a lot more play than ever before in m+ tho

[static glacier]

doesn't fucking matter how good the spec is, you have to be insanely ahead in damage / group utility to be considered

[static glacier]

unironically balance is better sadly

[feral rivet]

Yup

Except possibly AA

[late veldt]

How is CT interaction with poisons these days, application and the energy regen stuff

[royal lantern]

removde the dot on ct, give it instant dmg based on the ammount of bleeds you hit with it

so that we dont spam ct and get rewarded for multidotting

[feral rivet]

Give CT the feral PW treatment and sin is S+ tier

[royal lantern]

many bleeds->big ct dmg forn1-2 casts and then get bleeds rolling again

[late veldt]

Maybe CT could stack?

[static glacier]

would love if they'd do something about garotte without stealth

[royal lantern]

congratz, we now play ct in singletarget again

[slim hamlet]

Also just why is our aoe gen reliant on rng and subs isn't?

[late veldt]

Yeah would like to avoid that

[static glacier]

they're more reliant on finishers

[slim hamlet]

That one makes 0 sence ot me

arent we too?

[static glacier]

if sub's cp gen in aoe wasn't consistent you could play a fight 3-4 times and dance timings could be completely different

[slim hamlet]

fok deals negative dmg

[static glacier]

the gameplay would b

e

fucked up

imagine on 2nd boss cos as sub

if you didn't have dance for adds

etc

[slim hamlet]

Yea well I sure love pressing fok in 8 targets 2 times before using a finisher

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor my rl wants to 4heal kurog, what do i tell him

[tough gorge]

Even if you buff AP ala bit, the single start is so bad id never use it in mythic+

[balmy condor]

Honestly it’s doable now

It’s still rough

[tough gorge]

Single target*

[slim hamlet]

Wait yeah didnt kurog get omega nerfed

[balmy condor]

It’s basically like a 10% damage taken nerf yeah

[slim hamlet]

and adds just die so fast now right?

Wasnt it the adds health that got nerfed too

[vapid sierra]

I would

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[vapid sierra]

Good st and amazing survivability

[balmy condor]

I played full single target on kurog today

[slim hamlet]

Sick

We going into kurog thursday first time

[balmy condor]

And the adds actually just got fucking obliterated

[slim hamlet]

My raid leader laughed at me

[static glacier]

first time I touched kurog went sin, didn't regret.

[flint tusk]

Fluffy Josh

[balmy condor]

I would still play 2 target on prog tbh

[slim hamlet]

Yea but there is just an issue there

[wild storm]

Did you use the recommended ST talents as well?

[static glacier]

what's 2t talents anyway? just ct extra?

[slim hamlet]

I am infinitely worse with outlaw now than sin

[balmy condor]

Ye

[slim hamlet]

Tried it on spooder again after changes and just did negative dmg

[wild storm]

👍

[slim hamlet]

Hadn't tried it out with changes before it tho so might just have to actually do dummies

I guess we will see what our comp is on kurog

[late veldt]

Outlaw requires 300 IQ and reflexes of a panther

[slim hamlet]

idk about that one

[late veldt]

according to discord

[slim hamlet]

pretty sure fury warrior is hardest class right now

[balmy condor]

Meathead specs saying their meathead spec is the hardest

[hollow river]

Warrior: Smash
Outlaw: Smash
Assa: True piano savant

[steep merlin]

is the darkmoon trinket any good? or simbait?

[thorn fjord]

Was running OL and we were hitting enrage.. swapped ST sin and we killed it that pull lol

Feels good

[balmy condor]

Simbait ain’t really a thing, it’s fine just plays weird in practice

[steep merlin]

kk ty ❤️

[royal lantern]

builds that drop CttC are simbait

[balmy condor]

That’s not what simbait means

Idk

I’m sick of people saying simbait

To just anything that sims slightly differently to what they believe

As if the sims are at fault for your own stupidity and inability to make sense of it

[static glacier]

simbait would be dslice over or undervaluing aoe / st power compared to a real dungeon I guess?

[balmy condor]

It doesn’t though

:/

[static glacier]

yeah

maybe stuff that is bugged in apl

[balmy condor]

Sure

Mistakes happen

That doesn’t make it bait though

Bait as a word has got a lot of weight and meaning behind it

Idk

Simbait is just a pet peeve of mine

Cause 99% of the time it’s just “me no understand”

[royal lantern]

depeens on the bait, there are surface baits aswell

[balmy condor]

And then someone will be like THIS GUY CALLED IT BAIT????

And it’ll just circle for a week

For no reason

[grim jay]

Trap has a lot behind it aswell

[static glacier]

whispyr called dtb simbait confirmed

[royal lantern]

idk, for me simbait means "the differences are extremely small, but the overall chances for failure also get way higher, so dont do it"

like dropping CttC cus "sims 0,1% higher, It MaTtErS!

and then getting weird overallps with casting snd or dropping it by accident and lose far more dps

[balmy condor]

Yeah but it implies the sims are wrong

And they’re not

[royal lantern]

idk, atleast my defention of it

[grim jay]

For me simbait means that something Sims way higher than actually is achievable

[balmy condor]

You’re just too pea-brained to play it that way

[sturdy merlin]

Is static empowerment simbait ?

[balmy condor]

No

[grim jay]

In a close to but non-sim scenario

[balmy condor]

Like if you sim static empowerment with 100% uptime

And you’re like

It sims so good wtf

That’s bait

That’s…. Not really how that works

[royal lantern]

aka what many other classes do?

[balmy condor]

You’re just an idiot who can’t interpret data

There’s a big difference between “the sim is giving bad info” and “the sim is giving info that I choose to take out of context”

Like all the people who come in here and go “I sim 70k on patchwerk 5 min, but I only did 60k on my 6:40 terros prog kill, wtf?”

The sim isn’t wrong

You’re just comparing two things that aren’t meant to be compared

“I paid 1000 dollars for this flight” is a statement

But it could mean you paid 1000 dollars to go from Los Angeles to San Diego

Or you paid 1000 dollars to go from Beijing to Madrid

One of those is very expensive, the other is very cheap

The number isn’t wrong

It’s just not the same context

[grim jay]

I actually have never seen you write such a wall of text on one topic

Pins guides etc aside

[balmy condor]

I don’t like simbait

Simbait is a dumb word

Also I’ve written way bigger walls of text about scaling

[grim jay]

Dont

I intentionally left that out

My brain cant deal with that anymore

[sturdy merlin]

My favorite wall of text from you @balmy condor was when you explained that mathematical method with prisoners and a poisoned bottle among thousands of bottle and how you could easily find it

[balmy condor]

That’s a fun logic puzzle

[sturdy merlin]

That was very interesting to read, not rogue related but cool

[grim jay]

Were you on some weird shrooms or how did you get to that topic?

[balmy condor]

Nah just regular off topic

Talking about shit

Dunno

The other thing I like talking about is what comes after infinity

[normal olive]

obviously infinity +1

[balmy condor]

Like cantors diagonal argument

[supple topaz]

People rely on Sims too much I'd say. I kinda understand where you're coming from but to me simbait is what was said earlier, If you play completely optimally following the sim then yes in a vacuum you could also achieve this. The questions people don't ask are

Is this a vacuum?
Am I comfortable or capable of playing the class this way? (some people just can't vibe with certain talents or rotations and struggle to use optimally)

[manic walrus]

Does sin’s current m+ build still have good ST?

[balmy condor]

Yes

[manic walrus]

Good to know ty

[shut thistle]

Do I macro my puzzlebox or am I supposed to have a button for it? My bars and keybinds are getting full, so...

[balmy condor]

That’s just regular data interpretation though. We do that in every day life. This cup of coffee is 7 dollars, is that too much? I’m starting to get hungry, do I want to cook something, or order something. The payoffs of what’s best versus what’s worth doing is something every human does, every day, until they die. That’s completely aside to what simbait means, that’s just a human using the data a sim provided them to make an informed decision about their gameplay. That’s what sims are for, that’s what they’re designed to do, that’s sims working as intended

[raven knoll]

May I ask why we take Improved Poisons talent in m+ build?

[balmy condor]

You put it on a button

[balmy condor]

I don’t really understand what the question is. We take it cause it gives the most damage

[sour elm]

im thinking about switching back over to sin this next week for raid; had some questions concerning adds.

For fights like Earnog or broodkeeper etc, do you all just kind of ignore adds and let other classes deal with them?

[shut thistle]

Follow up question, is it best to use right before Exsanguinate?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[raven knoll]

Thats good answer I just thought Flying Daggers would give more damage

[balmy condor]

If you use it anytime before or right after casting Deathmark, you’re good

[frosty cedar]

poisons very poggies with dtb

[shut thistle]

Thank ye!

[balmy condor]

Flying daggers does nothing on less than 5 targets though

0 dps talent for like 60% of a dungeon

[sour elm]

tyvm

[raven knoll]

understandable

[sturdy merlin]

Adds are getting nuked on Eranog so there is nothing you need to change from your ST build. You can just throw a bonespike to the bigg add and that's it 😛

[sour elm]

awesome thank you

[sturdy merlin]

And you only hit boss on diurna's fight

[balmy condor]

And dathea

And it’s basically also the only thing you do on Raszageth

And it’s the only reason you’d play it on kurog

And also why you would play it on sennarth

Really if you’re playing sin you’re giving up on add damage

Just change your Details to boss damage taken

[sour elm]

we have so many burst classes in our guild anyway; my tiny little outlaw cant keep up half the time lmao

[sturdy merlin]

Getting sent on a platform on Dathea as sin ---> 💤

let me slam that boss please 💤

[delicate berry]

For the first time ever perhaps I'm enjoying sin in m+

[indigo epoch]

I think sin in m+ is a blast. Id not cry if they tuned our ST up just a touch

[slim hamlet]

Wat

our st in m+ is banging now

[indigo epoch]

Its good.

[delicate berry]

I've been sin forever and always dreaded trying to get in a m+ because no one was taking you

[summer tinsel]

so

[delicate berry]

Especially on fort weeks

[slim hamlet]

u legit just join

[summer tinsel]

which spec u do for m+ ?

legit new rogue

[slim hamlet]

No one looks at your spec

[summer tinsel]

assa i mean

[slim hamlet]

Fort was unironically the good weeks for us, idk about after 10.0.5

[summer tinsel]

assa is not ST kings?

[slim hamlet]

we are better at st than aoe ye

[delicate berry]

Oh inwas talking previous xpacs

[summer tinsel]

i wanna shine on bosses this week

[slim hamlet]

oh lol I have no idea what sin was before df

[delicate berry]

Now I have 0 problems getting into groups as sin

[indigo epoch]

I mean. There is a reason assasination is still a slim % of M+ top runs. I feel like we're good at everything but not great at anything now.... and dont get me wrong, that's better than we have been before. Like i said. I like playing assasination. Jm2c. Im only a 2100 io scrub so prob not worth much lol

[static glacier]

I mean no other spec applies multi target dr to enemies

atleast not a dps

[royal lantern]

the reason is less "assa bad"

and more"outlaw exist and is the defacto m+ melee dps for over 5years at this point, and is ofc also tunes high af rn"

assa itself is fine

more then fine

[slim hamlet]

sub is the new meta for m+ 🙂

[slim hamlet]

what u mean by this besides iron wire?

[indigo epoch]

Yeah, you're right

[real notch]

Is there a cap on any of the stats? Like I’m at 38% mastery and crit with 9% haste, I feel like I need more haste, any thoughts?

[slim hamlet]

no

[royal lantern]

as if that will stop outlaw brains, they just play sub with 1h weapons in their offhand

[slim hamlet]

U use raidbots.com

[static glacier]

just iron wire

[slim hamlet]

iron wire making sin worth it is so omega giga copium

dont worry i take that copium too

but its copium

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/copium-cat-gif-27161395

[delicate berry]

I befriended a priest with broodkeepers XD so I get all the goods vers and PI

[static glacier]

isn't that for tanks or squishy hunters?

[sinful oasis]

how do u get insane deathmark damage? when i look at top logs e.g. raz, deathmark has massive contribution to their dps ~10%. Its always super low on the list for me sub 5% dmg i would say. I line deathmark up with box and potion, whats the SECRET?

[delicate berry]

Should be but running with a warrior Tank so he doesn't need it

[static glacier]

do you play exsang?#

[sinful oasis]

yes i follow the opener

exsang then i box/potion deathmark

[static glacier]

i guess they just have better rng during shield phase

[balmy condor]

Yeah raz is a lot of shield

[static glacier]

im on the biggest cope, trying to switch out of exsang

[balmy condor]

That last shield when you’re in execute

[static glacier]

man why did .5 have to make us play this cringe no VR setup smh

does dmg but qol out the window

[balmy condor]

I don’t notice a difference tbh

[flint tusk]

sigh yet another absolutely shit vault had those fucking shoulders in the mythic slot 3 weeks in a row....

[balmy condor]

The energy I would’ve gotten from venom rush is energy im getting from dashing now

So I actually felt 0 change

[static glacier]

you were playing kb before, gamer

[balmy condor]

Better build, better talent, better ingredients, papa johns

[static glacier]

well kb is dead now

[marble hemlock]

You already have insanely high envenom uptime... What does that extra vr energy do for "rotational feel", exactly?

Other than make it feel more like outlaw

[static glacier]

I get to unga bunga

more big envenoms

dopamine

[marble hemlock]

Is complaining about VR the assa version of fth nerf?

[static glacier]

lmao

nah, vr is super minor

fth feels ass

[marble hemlock]

So is fth

[balmy condor]

They ruined the flow seli

[static glacier]

im still pressing the same buttons for sin, we have to press ambush on 5cp now

all those combo points

obviously it doesn't actually matter

but let a man be sad

[real notch]

So I usually pop envenom with 5-6 points, should I pop it whenever I have just 2-4 points to keep the uptime ?

[summer tinsel]

I cant seem to find the rotation in FAQ?

[marble hemlock]

The flow of getting even more envenoms when you already have plenty of situations where you cast envenoms faster than you can build amp stacks?

[balmy condor]

No

[static glacier]

old poison build applied more amp stacks iirc

[balmy condor]

Have you checked the section titled “rotation”

[real notch]

I somehow tend to have more garrote than envenom on my damage

[static glacier]

honestly lower energy sin is stronger even if it simmed the same

nevermind simming more

[balmy condor]

In raids?

[real notch]

Yeah like last night on my heroic Eranog last night was more garrote than envenom

I’m trying to fix it by just making sure garrote is used when there’s 2-4 seconds left

[static glacier]

and to wrap it all up 2 shiv charges vs 1

[balmy condor]

That’s probably fine

They’re at least close though right

[summer tinsel]

found it xD

you guys have a macro for exsang+ER?

[marble hemlock]

Insane. You now cast 1 less shiv in a 14 minute fight

[balmy condor]

No

[static glacier]

you keep referring to power level arguments, you know that's not what it's about.

the new build is stronger

that's not in question

[marble hemlock]

How does shiv, out of all abilities, affect rotational feel?

[static glacier]

I enjoyed being able to cover every reprimand with shiv

doesn't matter, sure

[gusty mirage]

[static glacier]

either way, spec is fine now or before. I just press button when it off cd and don't think about it

[marble hemlock]

Huh?

You still, like, do that?

[royal lantern]

can we throw raid items into the catalyst to turn them into tier items?

somebody knows? or only m+ stuff?

[real notch]

I had it backwards, envenom was used more than garrote but garrote did more damage than envenom

[marble hemlock]

Ofc

[balmy condor]

Okay?

[static glacier]

wasn't aware that 1charge shiv / er are held for eachother.

[marble hemlock]

They basically line up?

[grim jay]

Yes

[marble hemlock]

25sec CD/45dec CD?

[real notch]

But the result wasn’t there with what my ilvl is, which has me questioning if I need more haste

[balmy condor]

[stuck knoll]

what

[digital compass]

Does 4 piece set bonus apply to existing bleeds or is it snapshotted on cast?

[sturdy merlin]

It's dynamic

[marble hemlock]

You realize you don't have to consume your animacharged CP instantly right? If shiv is coming up 5sec after er, you can just build to 5+, cause you'll be able to consume your er CP regardless

[sturdy merlin]

You don't need to pay attention to it

[digital compass]

Thank you! ☺️

[static glacier]

you're right. perhaps it's all in my mind. seeing that 1 charge next to shiv gave me happiness for some reason

[summer tinsel]

So in opener i wanna do my garrote x2(3) and then rupture and exsang instant

wait for dots to run out and then apply deathmark vanish and garrote etc ?

[marble hemlock]

The funny thing is that you told whispyr off earlier about "you played kb dude" yet the single shiv complaint is only valid for... Kb builds, who actually synced double shiv with kb

[static glacier]

I didn't tell him off for playing kb

???

I acknowledged he didn't have dashing cus of playing kb

before

[balmy condor]

You let exsang’d dots expire

[drifting cloud]

oh no

[summer tinsel]

yea and then vanish deathmark and apply new set

[marble hemlock]

You deathmark after exsang

Not after the exsang dots expire

It's, like, in the picture in the faq

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1019199475421552651/1067653923856470026/image.png

[balmy condor]

[marble hemlock]

Is this confusing?

[sturdy merlin]

vanishing during deathmark feels so much better

5cp per garrote is

[grim jay]

I cant read pictures

[shrewd night]

But if you vanish during deathmark, you overwrite the exsanged garrote

[sturdy merlin]

Not really, the exsanged garrote runs out early in DM

[fleet imp]

I vanish when exang gar is going off

[balmy condor]

A picture is worth 1000 words and that’s a lot of words, I don’t have time for that really so I’m just gonna ask in chat and wait for an absolute loser like whispyr to explain it to me like I’m a 5 year old

[fleet imp]

Gar env gar env

[shrewd night]

I guess it depends if you want a full duration garrote exsanged or not

[marble hemlock]

But... I actually am speechless. I have no response.

[fleet imp]

You lose 4 globals worth of exang vs gaining 23 seconds imp gar? Doesn't seems too bad

[balmy condor]

[sturdy merlin]

did i say something wrong ? I said this after watching the opener picture

[proper tapir]

I'm right there with you, and then you can sync 2nd DM and Vanish. It's not hard timing lol

[grim jay]

Is that irony?

[fleet imp]

I have to admit timing was pretty rough with KB but now its easier to do and feels good to press

[balmy condor]

I thought I was doing a good job educating but then it was like 5:30 in the morning

And it begun

[marble hemlock]

And you can't do that when you vanish before dm?

[shrewd night]

[sturdy merlin]

Your answer sounds like sarcasm @marble hemlock i'm totally lost tbf

[flint tusk]

i mean half of this discord is passive aggressive sarcasm so yeh

[proper tapir]

You can, but you lose out on max pandemic imp gar/SS some of which is in DM and gives 5 cp

Seli, just try it bro

[grim jay]

When do we use TB? Legion p Server enjoyer

[fleet imp]

It is what happen if you dont refresh before exang

[shrewd night]

[kind forge]

TB on CD !!!111!1

[marble hemlock]

Okay. And?

I can now start saying "but you lose out on max pandemic exsang garrote during DM"

[proper tapir]

And it feels good, that's what we are talking about! Get your cat ears on!

[balmy condor]

We arguing over 0.9% again?

[shrewd night]

This isnt happening

[static glacier]

that's all we do though

[balmy condor]

Not true

Most of the time it’s far less than 0.9%

[grim jay]

Can we talk about the important things ? Like scaling

[static glacier]

[balmy condor]

[raven knoll]

[static glacier]

we don't scale as well with 4 piece as survival hunter does

[marble hemlock]

I'm just gonna go sign the petition to buff fth again so whatever the hell is happening in here right now happens less often

[proper tapir]

You lose some dot compression but gain full improved Gar in DM

[marble hemlock]

But.... you dont.

[grim jay]

Sounds like a case of "losing dps to gain dps" to me

[gusty mirage]

I already did my part

[marble hemlock]

You get like 10 exsanged ticks and 5 regular ones, compared to 12 exsanged ticks and 3 regular ones.... How is that different?

YOu still get 15 imp garrote ticks in DM

(just as an example)

[gusty mirage]

5% aura nerf to get the fth combo points back, seems like a good trade off

You get 1% and the “FEEL” back

For a net loss of 4%

[marble hemlock]

Idk my brain is just lost

[proper tapir]

First of all, cokes/dollars/hamburger. Secondly, now consider that you keep the improve Gar ticks after DM and juiced sick CPs in the mean time.

[marble hemlock]

Juiced sick CPs for what?

What do CPs do in DM window where you have 100% EP/Envenom Uptime anyway

And are sitting at <10amp stacks already anyway

For an additional sick 20k envenom?

Massive gains

Over a 6+ minute fight

[stuck knoll]

Also the 20k envenom is probably not worth 2 exsang ticks in DM

or else yk

you'd do that

[proper tapir]

No body said it was massive gain, but it does feel good. It flows nice and can be a slight gain.

[marble hemlock]

You do realize that the alternative to "can be a slight gain" is that it can also be a slight loss?

[shrewd night]

Keyword: "can"

[proper tapir]

Where the sims for that?

[shrewd night]

[marble hemlock]

(technically it could also be neutral)

[stuck knoll]

do you understand how sims work

[marble hemlock]

But yeah

[summer tinsel]

do i play kingsbane or nah ?

build i took has tempered blades but rotation tells me to use kingsbane after shiv

[marble hemlock]

Have you read the FAQ or nah ?

[proper tapir]

No, we just miss KB. We don't play it

[summer tinsel]

trying to figure it out

sorry for asking

[vestal cliff]

@marble hemlock is that your cat

[summer tinsel]

@proper tapir alright ty

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jy9A9/a9f9aa9d15.png

Is this difficult to grasp? I'm genuinely confused.

[summer tinsel]

dead picture

but you seem very salty dude

[marble hemlock]

Like, not trying to be a dick here, but the FAQ (and pins) exist solely to answer questions like these

[marble hemlock]

#assassination-faq message

[summer tinsel]

you know first time trying assa reading idk 10 diffrent sections can be confusing

you played rogue your entire life and know it all gz

wont ask any further questions smh

[marble hemlock]

It's more that these questions are being asked 20 times a day, so it get's pretty annoying when the answer is always the same: It's in the FAQ.

It's also in the pins: http://puu.sh/Jy9AZ/4c944f8ee2.png

[indigo sphinx]

Yeah it's not about not asking questions, it's just checking resources which people have put time and effort into to help you with should probably be the first point of call. It's faster and more exhaustive information for you, there is no downside.

[marble hemlock]

People in here are happy to help out with questions, but when you ask 4 different ones in a row, all of which have the answer "It's in the FAQ", it's a bit weird, ya know.

[grim jay]

Saltyathan!

[stuck knoll]

ya wanna mute

Cuz I can mute you

[proper tapir]

We are just having a hard morning, usually this place is good with questions. About 5 people scream FAQs but then one or two people will answer the actual question.

[vestal cliff]

Thats the cutest cat ive ever seen

[shrewd night]

check the FAQ is a complete answer to most of those questions though

[proper tapir]

George is cuter

[marble hemlock]

Missed this. Yeah, it is.

[vague widget]

I just appreciate all that people do in here.

[indigo sphinx]

@stuck knoll so I DM then Xsang yes ?

[stuck knoll]

From what I see on Terros that's what you've been doing yes

[indigo sphinx]

[shrewd night]

Ronkles, I appreciate you when you choose violence.

[grim jay]

Wish more people would do that and would actually appreciate the time people took to make those FAQs and guides. 😁

[vestal cliff]

True kings

[marble hemlock]

I can also elaborate a little bit on why it's frustrating and why you see people react in a sarcastic or salty or "rude" manner, whatever you wanna call it:

People enjoy being on discord. Many people like helping others. So when I wake up, or just have some time to kill, and I decide "hey, I wanna hang out in Assa/Outlaw/Sub for a while and help people who ask questions", we enjoy doing that.

But then this situation occurs (quite frequently, pun intended) where people regularly ask questions that are already answered, in easily digestible form, in the FAQ. So instead of enjoying my stay and helping people, I get the urge to just close discord again because its not a positive experience when people are either unwilling, incapable or too lazy to read the information that is being provided in this way.

That's why you're seeing more salt in the spec channels as of late - because people ask more "stupid" questions that make the people who come here to help, just be annoyed instead that no one is using the resources they provide.

[raven knoll]

In FAQ It says at 6+ targets you can consider using CT as combo point dump, but when I simmed my rogue on 7+ targets it kept using envenom and only maintained the CT dot

[stuck knoll]

It also doesn't help that if some people are not happy with the ahem "quality of service" they decide to start chirping themselves

[marble hemlock]

It is not at all an expression of being annoyed with one person individually. It's the combined negative experiences of saying "it's in the FAQ/Pins" 30 times over the course of 2 hours, that makes it frustrating.

[grim jay]

Whats chirping tho

[shrewd night]

Its in the faq, davyn.

Point number 5.

[stuck knoll]

fuck I wanted to say that

[grim jay]

Rip

[stuck knoll]

[indigo sphinx]

Hahaha

[marble hemlock]

It's that shit that keeps you from sleeping when you go to bed at 6am in the morning and those government drones disguised as "birds" are transmitting the data they collected on you while they were spying on you through the window

[drifting cloud]

birds arent real

[grim jay]

[indigo sphinx]

Mhm yes "birds"

[low girder]

do your own research!

[vestal cliff]

What trinkets do u guys have?

I have current technique and storm eaters boon and it feels very nice

[grim jay]

Never expected to end up at the receiving end

[shrewd night]

The ones that sim the highest for me

[vestal cliff]

lul

[marble hemlock]

The tl;dr is that we like to teach people how to fish, but then instead many many people simply keep asking for one fish. Repeatedly. hundreds of times a day. When there's a fishing guide and a fishing pole readily available.

[vestal cliff]

But what trinket sims your feelings the highest

[dreamy elk]

For heroic Rasz, would you still run normal DTB raid spec or would you make any talent adjustments for that fight?

[royal lantern]

just go DtB

[marble hemlock]

Normal raid spec

[royal lantern]

i doubt that your raid needs the bit extra shield dmg that KB gives

[marble hemlock]

Especially not now that the shield got nerfed on heroic

[echo heath]

so much activity in here this morning

[dreamy elk]

Got it, thanks.

[royal lantern]

its almost 4pm for seli and me

[echo heath]

bros are killing my chill vibes

[marble hemlock]

I mean I woke up an hour ago

The real question is why I didn't go back to sleep

[royal lantern]

and i will take a nap soon

[marble hemlock]

Seeing how I went to bed at 10am and only slept 4hrs

[royal lantern]

[dark token]

Current technique is pepega

[vestal cliff]

Im working for 6 hours already

[dark token]

Procs at wrong times

[royal lantern]

btw, is the trading post bugged

cant interact with the chest

[dark token]

It's blizz

Classes are bugged

[marble hemlock]

http://puu.sh/Jy9Em/bb235e8892.png

[dark token]

Ui is bugged

[next edge]

https://i.gyazo.com/0ed5956c7e0d0588f2dbf73cc045d7a6.png

[dark token]

Trading post probably bugged

[royal lantern]

eh ok, didnt saw it

[grim jay]

I need more than one hour to get ready and dress my soul for discord

[vestal cliff]

Bugged post probably trading

[dark token]

Bis ring angle

[royal lantern]

dude

i wish for that vault

im still sitting on a shity normal torch

[next edge]

I got the HoV one 415

and got grieftorch

maybe Incarnate is worth over Grieftorch 411

tbh

[dark token]

I never looted a torch

[marble hemlock]

[royal lantern]

grabbed the legs, so i dont need to cata legs

[dark token]

Cct/boon gang

[royal lantern]

and instead make 415 tier hands

cus fml, still have normal tier hands

and nothing drops

[dark token]

It always procs when boss go immune

[marble hemlock]

The entire point of the trinket is that it just increases your sustained DPS... We are a class that does high sustained damage.... Which is why it's so good for us

[vestal cliff]

#CurrentTechniqueGAAANG

[dark token]

Don't get me wrong I use it

I just hate seeing it do low DPS when it sims for much more

[vestal cliff]

i like it it just helps me stab faster

[dark token]

But I don't have a better option

[marble hemlock]

How do you see it doing low DPS

When the majority of the value of the trinket is in its auto-attack speed increase

[vestal cliff]

Is grieftorch better than storm eaters boon?

[marble hemlock]

For singletarget, yes.

For M+ you ideally just wanna play both

[vestal cliff]

So no technique in m+?

[proper tapir]

I use box and torch, my guild runs a few evokers so torch gains a lot of value

[royal lantern]

"hidden" dps for most people

[vestal cliff]

I hope i get a torch in my vault

Or a daggerino

[marble hemlock]

No

[grim jay]

🇩🇪 saw that

[vestal cliff]

[marble hemlock]

But it could be if its higher ilvl than your torch, for example

[royal lantern]

Dolch

[vestal cliff]

Yeah autocorrect was like BACK TO GERMAN

[vestal cliff]

Okay ty

[grim jay]

It was a grand oder

[next edge]

https://i.gyazo.com/33930dcb1f2b8c98cfd2ef6655951360.png

[royal lantern]

i need any raid trinket

like bruh

415 box+398 torch sucks so hard

[nocturne current]

Technique is decent in M+

[royal lantern]

doesnt matter if current, heroic torch or icon, just anything, and nothing ever drops

[marble hemlock]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/fjZQFMkthtFU1xEFRiCAui

since you asked

[royal lantern]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6NE414NYs7oD94UjHDw5PP pog

close to seli

wait seli, no eranog ring luck?

[marble hemlock]

nope

[royal lantern]

oof

ye that would be easy 1k something

[marble hemlock]

i mean we got many rings but people just randomly make up dps upgrade numbers

that are higher than mine were

[royal lantern]

[marble hemlock]

apparently upgrading from normal to mythic ring was 2.3k dps for our DH

i still dont believe it

[royal lantern]

"its better for me as a shaman cus i can proc it more often then you as a rogue" meanwhile cowl is permanent fire dmg

[royal lantern]

yeha, hes talking shit

100%

[marble hemlock]

but its mostly cuz i crafted haste/mastery ring which has guaranteed socket, so compared to that the ring isnt as powerful

[royal lantern]

im out of things to do with sparks now

[marble hemlock]

so its only like 1.4k for me, and thats combined upgrade of cowl+ring

[royal lantern]

made myself a 2nd dagger, and thats it lol

[marble hemlock]

i still have 2, im just too lazy to craft shit for 3 ilvl upgrade

[novel hazel]

!whispyr

[royal lantern]

ye, was more like 10 for me

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

my loot luck is really weird this tier

some slots good stuff, other slots nothing

wrist/belt was nothing until crafted item, 10ilvl jumps there

[vestal cliff]

The more important question: do u have the vault of the incanates set appearance complete?

Transmog is true endgame

[royal lantern]

no

cus no shit drops

only dh/dk tokens all day long

[vestal cliff]

Damn

[royal lantern]

we killed senarth and dropped 4 tokens for dh/dk

[vestal cliff]

Thats sadge

We did a lot of broodkeeper and the dagger didnt drop once

Big sadge aswell

[marble hemlock]

we killed it twice, 2 daggers

[royal lantern]

and you are the only rogue

[marble hemlock]

no

what godforsaken guild only has 1 rogue this tier

[royal lantern]

but you are the RL right?

[vestal cliff]

We have 3

[marble hemlock]

no

i stepped down after sepulcher

[vestal cliff]

Every spec

[royal lantern]

oh ok

[marble hemlock]

im on the council though, but i dont like assigning myself loot

i got the last grieftorch

[sturdy merlin]

mine

[vestal cliff]

Maybe i need to reroll to dk because our warlock plays his rogue now

[dark token]

Same

[royal lantern]

just wait until rogue is not great anymore

then they all go back to warlock/mage/druid/dh and maybe play outlaw for m+

[dark token]

Very questionable distributions for DPS

For rings

I think tanks got one too

Also a currently benched arcane mage

[vestal cliff]

I hope im really not sure about dk right now

[marble hemlock]

i simply didnt bank on getting one, and our abysmal tier set RNG forced me into wearing tier helmet

so i passed on like the first 3 rings

since we got 4x as many dreadful/venerated token as zenith

[dark token]

I was h tier helmet as well but would have swapped to broodkeeper normal shoulders

If I got ring

[marble hemlock]

yeah we just didnt get zenith drops

[dark token]

Do I actually play sin now

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/485916092405907479/1070282969874452530/image.png

Wonder how much 421 box sims

[royal lantern]

600

[dark token]

I had a 398

So probably a bit more

[royal lantern]

i just typed a random number

[gaunt moat]

We're doing it guys!
Almost at the bottom!

[royal lantern]

ye, but then they look at boss dmg, and you have a shitton of people that say "boss dmg is the most important thing, you need to kill the boss after all" 🙂

[gaunt moat]

Sin gonna be worse than survival soon

[static glacier]

survival isn't bad

just unplayed

[gaunt moat]

Good luck getting a raid spot on that argument

[royal lantern]

it alway suffers form the fact that hunter is a ranged class, people play hunter to do ranged dps and not to play a niece melee dps that doesnt really do anything special

unless its overtuned as hell like in SL S3/S4

[wary ice]

metah must get ragged on constantly*

[royal lantern]

surv itself is tuned higher actually quiet often

[marble hemlock]

better picture

[royal lantern]

like, i remember that in BfA surv was the #1 hunter spec number wise most of the time

[shadow carbon]

Ayo, what is the cap in mastery %? Thanks

[royal lantern]

there are no stat caps

[marble hemlock]

playing hunter on raszageth p1 isnt fun

tbf

[gaunt moat]

Sub almost as high but can do more

[shadow carbon]

aight thanks!

[marble hemlock]

idk where that thingy you linked is from

[royal lantern]

your priest is disc? need barrier?

[marble hemlock]

but assa is definitely not a bottom spec

[gaunt moat]

From Wowhead

[marble hemlock]

disc carries p2

[royal lantern]

why excatly, didnt really check raza mythic yet

[gaunt moat]

It's overall chart

[marble hemlock]

oh so its useless, got it

[gaunt basin]

Is exang very important in m+? cuz i feel like its kinda meh, maybe im just shit 🙂

[marble hemlock]

it is not

[royal lantern]

you play it, but its like, slam on cd on an add you want to die a bit faster

[marble hemlock]

its simply the better of the 2 choices you need to pick to get iron wire

[gaunt basin]

aight then i see why 🙂

thx

[gaunt moat]

Let's not pretend that sun can almost do as much ST but is also great at AoE.
But sin is not allowed to even be good at cleave.

I'm gonna cry about it until we get buffed

[marble hemlock]

doesnt mean assa is bad

[static glacier]

iirc none of the top st specs atm do good cleave while beating sin st

[gaunt moat]

It's a harder and harder choice to bring, let's put it this way

[wary ice]

then dont play sin :^)

[marble hemlock]

its kinda not. its still a very good st spec

the "sub does same st but also more aoe" angle is kinda pointless cuz you dont really have any encounters where sub actually gets to leverage that

[gaunt moat]

#subtlety channel this way ⬅️

What do you mean
These charts are from this raid tier.

[dreamy elk]

Couple of sin mythic+ questions. For context, only played raid DTB ST so not familiar with mythic+ build:

1. For DTB mythic+ build, how much of a ST DPS difference is it running that build vs. a ST-focused build? Just like to know what kind of rough % difference it is running the AOE talents.

2. For AOE, are you typically only applying rupture on groups through IC or do you also manually rupture (i.e. are there times when you need to rupture when IC is still on CD)?

3. Keep garrote on as many targets as possible, without exception?

4. Envenom as CP dump to 5 targets, at 6+ it's crimson tempest?

5. Are there any situations where the sin mythic+ build will compete, or do better, than its equivalent sub mythic+ build(s)? Or is sub pretty much always the superior mythic+ spec?

[marble hemlock]

Overall charts are utterly useless