assassination

[old jewel]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[rare moon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[scarlet meadow]

hey guys, new to sin. is the aim of your deathmark window just to have an improved garrote up for the whole duration, as well as rupture/lethal poisons as usual?

[balmy condor]

Yep

[gaunt moat]

Hello Assassins!
Most of you probably don't know or remember me, back in the days (almost 6 years ago) I used to be the assassination moderator here, and it quite the job. But due to personal real life reasons I took a sudden leave.

I came back to WoW and Dragonflight after a long break, and I've missed being part of this community.
I took a look around, and saw what an awesome job the current mods are doing (amazing FAQs!!!) and the admins in regards to making this place work.

I know there's a lot for me to learn here, so I'm putting on my student cap this time.
And if some old faces that recognize me are still around, hi!

Your angy bunny
@slow quartz @hallow sonnet @balmy condor @vestal wren

[balmy condor]

Hello notter :P

Nice to see an old face

Squawkk made an appearance earlier this week too

[vestal wren]

welcome back, have fun

[gaunt moat]

I don't think I remember who's Squawkk, it might be he came after me, or I'm just senile (i'm getting older 🥸 )

But hi! I've been using your guides to get back into the game 🙂

[balmy condor]

He was a regular a while back

But that’s okay

I don’t expect you to know every person from 5 years ago

[gaunt moat]

I only remember the troublemakers 😂

[balmy condor]

Should I be scared that you pinged me

[gaunt moat]

👀

[sick scarab]

guys i cant find it anymore in discord.. there is a new rotation for single targhet ?

[gaunt moat]

You should be scared of me asking dumb question hah

[sick scarab]

dtb +exang+bone spike

[balmy condor]

Same rotation

Nothing changed

Just don’t press kingsbane

[sick scarab]

ah so garr snd bone rupt echo rupt exang deathmark vanish garr garr

[gaunt moat]

My biggest question now is... how to not suck at Kurog 🥲

[balmy condor]

I’ve seen plenty of those

[gaunt moat]

😂 😂

[balmy condor]

The short of it is kinda just maintain everything

[scarlet meadow]

does exsang only work on current bleeds? so you can press exsang and then the next global deathmark and not lose any damage?

[balmy condor]

Idk if you’re talking about heroic or mythic

[balmy condor]

Correct

[gaunt moat]

mythic. on heroic it's one of our best fights

[sick scarab]

exang affect the bleeds aare up when you use it

if you refresh one of it you cancel exang i suppose

[thorn crater]

oh ye one question about the ST opener btw. i know that 1 whole second of SBS earlier makes everything better cause its a dmg loss otherwise but wouldnt it be better to use sbs after SND for the extra CP(s) to get a faster rupture out? if u use after SND u potentially only have to use one muti (double crit) to get a 5CP rup out

yes i know it doesnt matter rly, just asking to ask

curious if its better optimizationwise or not

[balmy condor]

Yeah on mythic if your fellow raiders got their ducks in a row, you’re out of luck, but for mythic kurog it’s actually just a maintain game. Crimson tempest? Maintain on both. Garrote? Rupture? Maintain. Envenom? Maintain that too. Poisons? Tab mutilate to maintain

[scarlet meadow]

thanks! and its not any more total damage right? rather just upfront burst?

[hallow sonnet]

Welcome back <3

[balmy condor]

Sure

[balmy condor]

Not sure what you mean

[scarlet meadow]

like making a bleed expire quicker isn't anymore total damage, its just moving the dot damage to be more upfront?

or am i missing something

[royal lantern]

you forgot the plottwist: you do mutilate, but it doesnt apply a poison cus rng is gonna rng

[balmy condor]

Yes

It gives you extra ticks

[gaunt moat]

You're taking crimson tempest for kurog?
From what I saw at most high ranked sin, they went full ST build

[balmy condor]

Cause you get the same ticks, but in less time

[balmy condor]

Yeah to cleave the add

You can go full st on kurog, you would still maintain gar/rup for energy

[gaunt moat]

is it not a loss at 2 targets?

[balmy condor]

Crimson tempest?

[gaunt moat]

yes

[royal lantern]

you somewhat gain more total dmg cus it means you get more bleed ticks over the entire fight

[balmy condor]

Nah

Crimson tempest is a gain on 2

Lethal dose is a good talent

[scarlet meadow]

i see. seems like a strange ability to me being on a 3 minute cooldown

[royal lantern]

it was 45sec

and shit

really shit

gameplay turned into a permanent game of "prepare for next exsang"

[balmy condor]

It was incredibly overpowered at 45 seconds after the talent rework made bleeds actually do damage

[gaunt moat]

You're correct, it is strange. and doesn't feel good right now.
It will most likely be removed in a future patch to my understanding.

it was 45 sec at start of expansion, but was heavily nerfed.
it was also too strong in pvp.

[balmy condor]

And this was the only solution

Exsanguinate before was competing with other good talents, and bleeds weren’t the strongest

But now bleeds got buffed and exsang competes with comparatively weaker talents

So at 45 seconds it was actually just stronger than our capstone talents

[royal lantern]

the talent is widely disliked, is a balance nightmare and had to get a quick nerf nuke AND they said in the nerf notes that they will do some changes to it in the future

yeha, exsang will either get a full rework or just removed and replaced

[winged veldt]

Now people in pvp calling for major assa nerfs so who knows what’s coming and how the development team will handle it lol

[gaunt moat]

IMO, just give us a talent that makes bleed tick faster passively.

[royal lantern]

its pvp, nobody takes pvp serious + blizzard is smart enough to make PvP only changes

[winged veldt]

Right

Lmao

[royal lantern]

you mean the talent feral druids have? 🙂

[winged veldt]

They have proven that statement wrong already

[gaunt moat]

i don't know what they've got, but.. sure hah

[scarlet meadow]

glad to see my gut reaction was right that it was weird 😅 i guess you could hold it for priority damage on an add or something?

[balmy condor]

I mean you just don’t let hemo and wound poison stack, and then tune the damage down like 5% and call it a day honestly

[gaunt moat]

that's mostly what you do, yes.

[winged veldt]

True!

[royal lantern]

circle of life and death, all hots and dot tick 25%faster, and then they have a proc chance on dot ticks on feral bite iirc

[gaunt moat]

Coming back to playing sin
first think I felt was.. button bloat.
Sin just has way too many buttons to maintain and align.
so it's better if exsang would be replaced by a passive that does something similar.
so yeah, 25% faster ticks, why not

[static glacier]

would love for it to just be tied to DM

[royal lantern]

ye, rogue in general got to many buttons in DF

[royal lantern]

cease

[static glacier]

dots tick faster as well as being copied while it's up

[royal lantern]

ypu just created the last tier set mate

[static glacier]

it's effectively what we do with exsang anyways

[royal lantern]

the tier set EVERYONE hated

[static glacier]

idk about the whole duration reduction aspect

was just thinking moreso along the lines of artificial hasted dots during dm

100% feelsbad to keep reapplying garrotte and rupture during cds

expiring faster isn't what i'm advocating at all, that's the exact problem with exsang (just read tier set for sin, skipped sepulchre)

[gaunt moat]

@balmy condor
I'm seeing out of the 25 top sin rogues on kurog, only 4 use crimson tempest
so it's hard to say what's best. hard call.
I might give it a try next time if my guild even takes me again 🥲

[balmy condor]

Hey look that’s me in 7th!

[scenic marlin]

i suppose it all depends on team comp ect right

[balmy condor]

I guess

Most guilds aren’t giga smashing the adds effortlessly imo

But if the add is of 0 concern, then yeah sure play single target

[scenic marlin]

i think thats the one thing my guild does really well

[static glacier]

my guild has too much add dmg

[scenic marlin]

was looking into assa for kurog a little bit

[gaunt moat]

I saw that PI there 😛
j/k, good job 😮

[static glacier]

you got pi over a dk wut

[balmy condor]

I DIDNT EVEN ASK FOR IT IDK WHY THEY GAVE IT TO ME

It must’ve been a misclick or something I have no idea

[static glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[gaunt moat]

[balmy condor]

Like

I do not get PI

It’s the dk, the warlocks, the evoker, the mage, then me

[gaunt moat]

our mages do insane dps on that fight

[balmy condor]

It’s a great mage fight

Our mages are not great

We benched a mage during kurog prog for doing tank damage

It was kind of yikes

[static glacier]

what spec

[balmy condor]

Idk I think he was playing arcane at the same but tried to play frost

[static glacier]

😔 their ice lance melted

[balmy condor]

I don’t ask questions I just call them rdps shitters and they get mad cause they’re not 25% ahead of every melee spec in the game for free this patch

[gaunt moat]

I'll put it this way:
mage did 20m to kurog, while i only did 11m
(wiped at 40%)

that's almost double 🥲

[static glacier]

speaking of kurog when're you guys vanishing / DMing?

I was using on pull after 1st emp garrotte ran out to spread onto add and boss, then in intermission before 2nd dm - but ends up with me holding dm like 15 secs

[gaunt moat]

on CD
so at intermission 1
and then i use it again on add after intermission

[static glacier]

feels like I could clean that up

[scenic marlin]

our frost mage was at 15m at 40% boss hp, joint 3rd 😛

[gaunt moat]

it just feels so bad playing sin on that fight.
I will try whysper's build next time. and pray priest "missclicks" me haha 😄

I can't bring myself to learn outlaw... it's TOO MUCH

[tough lintel]

probably a stupid question or even a commonly asked question, but, how much of a dps loss is it to not use exsang? I dont like it and i fully dont understand it which feels super bad, but since i do mostly m+ (15-20+ keys) i still think iron wire is super good

[balmy condor]

I Open on kurog, then vanish gar the add and refresh on kurog, box, deathmark

And then they’re synced and I just send on cd

[static glacier]

holding dm til add is up?

[balmy condor]

Yeah

[static glacier]

will try it, functionally same since i'll always end up holding dm for 2nd vanish regardless

[gaunt moat]

i mean, as long as add dies in time, it doesn't matter too much which target you DM imo

[scenic marlin]

yeah ive been playing outlaw on that fight and it is a little inconsistant, but suppose the new alteration to talents they found made it flow better i feel

[static glacier]

better box uptime on add dmg too

[balmy condor]

It’s like gar snd gar sbs rup er, add spawns, rup add, sbs add vanish gar gar add, gar boss, ct, box, deathmark boss, shiv and go

Something like that

[gaunt moat]

most intresting thing: no one's taking the new cleave talent for this fight.
because they placed it in such an awkward position on tree.

[brazen rampart]

where exsang tho

[balmy condor]

Don’t take exsang

[balmy condor]

The new cleave talent in general is absolute rubbish

You either lose a disgusting amount of single target taking it for a very minor aoe gain

Or it’s just straight up worse

[gaunt moat]

Yeah that's what i'm saying.
like.. sin tree in general, doesn't make a lot of sense.
AoE talent are mostly on the left.
Then you've got IC on the right.
why??

[static glacier]

it needed to be much better in pure ST to compete

[brazen rampart]

ah ye the talent i saw on WCL was doomblade not exsang, mb

[static glacier]

I hate the 6 min timer on cds lining up again, every time a kill timer is slightly too fast it ruins your planning for the whole fight

fuck puzzlebox, fuck exsang

[gaunt moat]

@balmy condor Arterial precision should replace Tiny toxic blade or merged with it. that would make SO MUCH more sense.

[balmy condor]

Yeh…..

It’s been….a while

I’ve had plenty of late night discussions with the dev

Where we go back and forth

[static glacier]

😳

[balmy condor]

I get it

But I also don’t

[brazen rampart]

[gaunt moat]

Back in the day at BfA's alpha, he didn't listen to most of our feedback either

[static glacier]

he's listened a lot in df tbh

been very hardworking

[balmy condor]

Yeah

We have had a lot of feedback listened to

It just feels like at some point the design was locked in

And now the untangling is going to take a long time

[static glacier]

I'm sure there's internal audits the changes have to pass too, I doubt any one dev has full freedom

[gaunt moat]

🙏🏻 for 10.0.0.7

[brazen rampart]

[static glacier]

df is the expac where archaic ideas of how specs should function is being removed (no more st only or aoe only specs)

[balmy condor]

Most of the systematic deep rooted stuff will probably exist until 11.0 if I’m being honest

[gaunt moat]

they're a team, but it's one dev in charge of several classes.

[winter gale]

@balmy condor may I know why you played Kurog fight w/o exsang?

[balmy condor]

I don’t see crimson tempest leaving any time soon for example

[balmy condor]

Cause it’s more damoog

And we like more damoog

[winter gale]

Im playing that fight as outlaw but we lack boss dmg in the last phase

[gaunt moat]

I don't think crimson tempest should leave, either.
I think the tree needs rearranging

[winter gale]

So I am considering to go assa

[brazen rampart]

what's the issue with CT?

[static glacier]

compare it to similar aoe spenders

you'll see the problem

[balmy condor]

CT is our only real aoe outlet

But it’s a dot

[scenic marlin]

hey axo 😛

[winter gale]

!whispyr

[balmy condor]

So we’re kinda like

Stuck in this bullshit “maintain but clip it”

[static glacier]

we overflow with energy and cps in aoe, but the marginal value of the resources falls off a cliff

[winter gale]

Hey m8 @scenic marlin

[static glacier]

wheras BP and primal wrath maintain or increase in value

[balmy condor]

Assassination aoe just doesn’t make a lot of sense right now

[gaunt moat]

The thing is, back in legion, Sin was really good at cleave 2-3 targets.
Now somehow it's complete garbage at specifically that.

[balmy condor]

It’s got good duct tape fixes like IC and CT being good

But it ain’t really a rotation to ignore multidotting and spam a dot

[winter gale]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[balmy condor]

Idk

Assassination’s aoe Just doesn’t make much sense honestly

[static glacier]

also we're one of very few specs that have our main 2min cd not affect aoe

[royal lantern]

who was top and who bottom

[balmy condor]

And it’s so deep rooted that you would have to rework the entire spec’s scaling past 2-3 targets

And that’s a lot of work

CT is kind of a problem though

It wants to be black powder, but it wants to be a dot

And right now it’s neither

[winter gale]

@balmy condor fuu’s spreadsheed says that build with exsang is simming better.

[brazen rampart]

ok ye i guess i didn't really think about CT's problem cause i don't play assa in any aoe scenario, but i guess the fact i avoided it cause it seemed annoying is telling of this exact issue lmao

[balmy condor]

That’s cool

[static glacier]

it's a fight with multiple targets.

[winter gale]

I will copy your build and try it tommorow

I prefer it anyway

[wanton vine]

I did a few keys(20+) this week as assa and some dungeons feel okay even great at times but most feel straight up garbage if you dont have IC ready for the next pack, also the damage and the lack of resources during boss fights is terrible

[static glacier]

feels like sin's dmg increase with extra targets is some inverse bell shape tbh, hella wierd

[gaunt moat]

@balmy condor
You forgot the part where's our AoE is a chance to proc on ST spender 😄

[balmy condor]

That ain’t much of a thing anymore

Poison bomb is okay

[gaunt moat]

was nerfed

[balmy condor]

But it’s not legion anymore :P

[static glacier]

it's more consistent atleast

[gaunt moat]

yeahhhhh

[balmy condor]

The single target is actually pretty good now with dtb, but yeah I get what you mean

[gaunt moat]

Then you do a m+ with an arcane mage and they do 350k dps on pack.
not even joking.

[brazen rampart]

bring back kingsbane tho

[scenic marlin]

first pack of nokhud with hero my arcane mage in our m+ squad does 450-500k sometimes

its insane

[gaunt moat]

i was looking at meters, thinking "why is my dps so low?"
then i'm seeing i'm doing like 100+

but he's just doing triple

[wanton vine]

That's the unfortunate part of not having a good aoe talent, the burst I'd say is on par w/ sub rogue but other than that it doesn't really bring anything except aoe silence

[scenic marlin]

sounds about right 🤣

[wanton vine]

I hope they do more with poison bomb, it feels like it should be the goto passive/talent for aoe

[zealous bobcat]

The silence is huge tho

[gaunt moat]

@wanton vine considering PB was nerfed real fast.. i don't see that happening.

[flint tusk]

PB should be 100% just reducing the damage to make it level out!
i hate RNG based damage
Would atleast give us some sort of aoe burst

[static glacier]

scent of blood imo is on the right tracks, just not tuned well enough to be major

[gaunt moat]

Sin has been getting consistently nerfed since launch.
Now we're bad at cleave.
And even ST others can do as much.

so we'll see what the future holds.

[static glacier]

to be fair launch sin was too strong

[gaunt moat]

maybe others were weak 🙂

[static glacier]

only nerf I hated was change to reprimand animacharging 1 less cp

[flint tusk]

i mean it would be fine if they left it alone.
as they've now buffed more capable specs above sin

So classes they have great cleave also have good ST
or good AOE and strong ST
where as sin can have one but not the other in the same build

[gaunt moat]

yes, that should not have happened.
if they wanna nerf damage, nerd damage, not playability.
they made an ability less fun to use.

[static glacier]

100%

it's why I'm in lowkey depression about fan the hammer from outlaw since 10.0.5, been playing sub more

[flint tusk]

i mean ER nerf didn't change how the spec plays at all
they just made the 5th CP not ever get charged

[static glacier]

they changed the gameplay

[brazen rampart]

FTH nerf is tragic

[gaunt moat]

I need to learn sub.. but I find it hard to motivate myself to do it.
i like sin playstyle.

[static glacier]

would rather they just made er hit for less or nerf the animacharged spender damage or something.

[cursive frost]

I am currently trying to balance playing all 3 specs for different fights in raid

It’s starting to scramble my brain

[static glacier]

I normally default to sin then switch if we need aoe dmg

[wanton vine]

try sub with flagellation in AA, see how that feels 😄

[gaunt moat]

i don't even know what that means

[static glacier]

actually miss sl sub, 2 dances / flag lining up / symbols being a real spell

[flint tusk]

nerfing ER damage doesn't reduce it's throughput which was the issue.
making it only say do 6CP finishers on anima charge will just make the whole thing pretty wet noodle. so the change they did was fine.

It's the poison bomb nerf and overall nerfs that have done the damage

[cursive frost]

Meanwhile frost mage simming like 8% higher in ST

[gaunt moat]

Big part of ER is hitting max CP without spending a lot of energy. that's the point that becomes less fun.

[static glacier]

I honestly don't care about numerical nerfs, just don't nerf the gameplay

[cursive frost]

But that’s working as intended

[static glacier]

wish OL got a 3% nerf instead of making fth feel wack

[flint tusk]

but they didn't
IF the 3 points that charged was still random between 2 and 5 then hell yes it's a gameplay nerf.
but it never charging the 5th combo point literally changes nothing gameplay wise.

[slim hamlet]

I doubt a single person would complain about that

[static glacier]

this was a covenant ability for rogue in SL, this is the current (watered down) version we have as sub

[slim hamlet]

Maybe not 3% aura

[gaunt moat]

too much text

[vestal wren]

depends what you mean by cleave

[static glacier]

fth was like 2% iirc, but yeah, now we have to press ambush at 5cp fml

[vestal wren]

e.g. if you compare all 3 on 2 targets

[flint tusk]

I'm not sure what you mean by this.
Losing the 5th CP being anima charged is max CP for sin anyway? so it's like a tiny percentage damage nerf that's about it

[vestal wren]

subtlety is quite noticable behind and sin/outlaw is about equal

[gaunt moat]

i'm comparing to all dps specs, not just rogues

[sturdy merlin]

Reach 6cp. Press button. Spend cps, do damage

That's the shorter tooltip

[static glacier]

gives mastery per cp spent

[vestal wren]

oh, i thought you compared rogues in relative damage to each other

[versed canopy]

I feel like is some pulls, using envenom to get poison bomb is more effective than trying to get all of my bleeds out because things die too quickly

[gaunt moat]

but also, i was mostly talking about kurog mythic fight.
outlaw outperforms other rogues specs if you want to compare rogues

[static glacier]

real question is how's the primary target dmg in a 2t situation between rogues? I would assume sin gains / OL loses a bit and idk for sub at all.

[sturdy merlin]

If things are gonna die soon you can clip low cp ruptures just for some energy, if you feel starved and have no tea available

[vestal wren]

both sin/sub gain a slight boost from 2 targets

in st output

[gaunt moat]

sure, I don't argue that.
But getting a slight boost is not the same as "being good"
sin has been underperforming miserably there.
(kurog mythic)

[cursive frost]

What is that statistics from

[spice spire]

Can’t look at a singular fight tho, I agree mythic performance is down because we slam boss

[cursive frost]

Overall dmg on kurog?

[gaunt moat]

whoops wrong chart

[vestal wren]

damage to boss

or damage overall?

[gaunt moat]

overall on kurog

[vestal wren]

i am a bit confused, i assumed mo wanted damage to boss

[cursive frost]

Any percentile filter?

[static glacier]

I don't think he's talking about me anymore

just in general

[gaunt moat]

oh, i wasn't, sorry, i was talking about sin's cleave potential being bad

[static glacier]

that was a personal q I had (since gloomblade is now better than sl)

[vestal wren]

oh okay

assassination is fairly high in heroic tho

[gaunt moat]

yes, because heroic is mostly ST

[static glacier]

in general we're not amazing for kurog regarding overall yeah

[gaunt moat]

that's one of our best fights

[vestal wren]

how come subtlety is below outlaw then

[static glacier]

add in extra adds and sin has to decide between st on boss and aoe pad

[vestal wren]

because outlaw is worse than both sin/subtlety

on pure st

[gaunt moat]

on heroic or myhic?

[vestal wren]

heroic grimtotem

[static glacier]

higher playrate by miles right?

enough OL parses and some are bound to rng massive SnC uptime

if we're sorting by high %

[vestal wren]

50%tile even

[solid mica]

I would

[gaunt moat]

btw, if you look at the mythic, sub is way below outlaw.
but the max outlier for both sub and outlaw are very close.
while sin's max outlier, is almost sub's average high.

[vestal wren]

btw.

[gaunt moat]

probably outlaw padding in adds phase on little adds? i don't know.

[vestal wren]

is the statistic you looking at filtering data

to only include 10.0.5

[gaunt moat]

no, it's over 2 weeks

[vestal wren]

because if it isn't you already falsify your results heavily

[gaunt moat]

okay, let's look at current

[frigid pilot]

sIn iN kEyS

[gaunt moat]

this is over 1 week, so it's mostly 10.0.0.5 (over 1 day only has 9 sin parses and 92 outlaws)

[static glacier]

I mean subcreation undervalues stuff based on playrate. As a SV player it’s damage in keys is pretty strong, especially ST

Feels competitive with rogue to me anecdotally

[vestal wren]

subcreation is mostly just a diffrent presentation of r.io popularity graph

people love it because "tier list"

ironically, every time i used it, it failed to give me a reason to use it

[static glacier]

Unironically Ret is some blaster spec, just dies though

[vestal wren]

just under the assumption that grimtotem is a 2 target fight

looking at simulations would put sin/outlaw close on exactly 2 targets

[gaunt moat]

It's 2 target but sometimes more

[vestal wren]

so i would wonder if subtlety suddenly beats assassination by a large margin

[gaunt moat]

but yes, if it was only 2 targets, I think outlaw would beat sin only slightly

what did sim show?

[vestal wren]

blue - subtlety
yellow - outlaw
green - assassination

[frigid pilot]

sub on 2 target is

keep nerfing BP though

blizz

[vestal wren]

#1065728795455266888 message

^ there is a small 0.8% optimization for sub on 2t

but even with that you would probably end up on sth like 107k dps max

what is still over 10k behind sin/outlaw

[frigid pilot]

fan nerf feels so bad personally as outlaw

can barely stand to play the shit

[vestal wren]

peple play with cto instead of gsw now

feels a bit more fluid

[scenic marlin]

did you try CTO, defo feels better -greenskin + CTO

[gaunt moat]

@vestal wren Kurog is 2 adds the whole time.
But intermission with fire add brings small adds.
+
during earth altar there are many adds

[frigid pilot]

whats cto?

[vestal wren]

count the odds

<- this

[scenic marlin]

the gives you RTB buff you dont have for 5 secs

10% chance every dispatch/ambush

[vestal wren]

yes, but i am not sure how many run with aoe builds on the fight

on subtlety

[scenic marlin]

also feels comp dependant too for that

the earth adds with my guild get destroyed by ww monk frost DK ret pal very fast

so depends how worth for intermission

[vestal wren]

i assume most run something like this

[slim hamlet]

you're high

[vestal wren]

sometimes probably even without bp

top logs seem to have quite a bit of damage on adds

[solid mica]

Why would i want twice the nerf and more mindless generator->finisher->generator gameplay?

[frigid pilot]

add dmg is important my guild hits enrage half the time on kurog

[vestal wren]

what is perfectly fine, but makes the fight somewhat bad if you want to compare "cleave"

and not "aoe"

e.g. the top parse has 14% of the damage from BP

and you would only BP on 3+ targets

[frigid pilot]

i miss when BP was 2 target friendly

[static glacier]

I miss when shadowstrike did real damage

[vestal wren]

assassination also as mentioned had a bit of a change in 10.0.5

so it now can take some different talent points, potentially making cleave slightly better

(sry, don't want to be dismissive of the comparison, just pointing out that it is not simple to compare)

[slim hamlet]

Same reason people dont choose exsang

[versed canopy]

is the new AP talent good to take in M+?

[slim hamlet]

Better aoe, MUCH worse st

[versed canopy]

is there an argument on taking it on fortified weeks?

[static glacier]

so you're saying you enjoy the new fth changes equally or more than previous fth?

beauty is in the eye of the beholder I guess

[solid mica]

It feels better to play, you dont just press the same 2 buttons over and over and over and over, and you get to play cto which is fun

[static glacier]

cto was within 0.4% sim for me before the changes anyway - could always play it

personally I hate the feeling of pressing ambush at 5. and we're pressing the same 3-4 buttons anyway. almost every spec in this game usually spams about 4 buttons often

but hey, if you enjoy it good for you. wish I was in your boat

[frigid pilot]

wild week 1 standings

sub more parses than sin now 😮

https://tenor.com/view/stonks-up-stongs-meme-stocks-gif-15715298

[static glacier]

people realised sin can't aoe in raid kek

[frigid pilot]

but aoe shiv

[static glacier]

cope

[frigid pilot]

[static glacier]

that and OL gameplay stonks dropping

[thorn fjord]

Nah theyre about the same

[coarse bear]

In general before every exsanguinate we want to garrote, ER, puzzle box, rupture, then exsang right?

[autumn valve]

Hello, in AoE, when Carnage is not available on a pack, do you still apply garrote and rupture on several targets?

[frigid pilot]

as soon as lil timmy's learn how to gloomblade inside shadowdance

outlaw gonna dissapear

[runic matrix]

hey i can do that

[frigid pilot]

https://tenor.com/view/welcome-welcome-to-the-team-minions-gif-21749603

[gaunt moat]

most depressing part: after kurog there's Dathea

[cursive frost]

Arms is crazy now

Ran an AA with one yesterday and dude was PUMPING on trash

Weak af on boss but nasty on big pulls

[idle vine]

any tips for the sigryn fight? i just take infinite damage, even with running leeching

[gaunt moat]

@balmy condor Just looking over at FAQ
i see you're saying don't bring amp poison to m+
but your m+ build uses it
what's the optimal thing here?

[quasi ledge]

Dodge axes, stun and kite the enrage guy or evasion if you have damage going. Use orbs when you need them, no point trying to save them by using CDs first, they spawn often

[normal mist]

But it is there! 😮

[gaunt moat]

that's the discrepancy i'm trying to understand

[normal mist]

Don't mind whispyr, cat might be tired

Use amp

[gaunt moat]

i am.
but maybe worth updating FAQ to reflect this

this line:
This is not worth it in 99% of situations as we do not run Amplifying Poison in Mythic+, where this strategy would be most viable (swapping into Amp for bosses, then back to Deadly for trash). Either use Amplifying, or don't talent it.

[dawn merlin]

Ye might be legacy info from before 10.0.5

[normal mist]

^

When using KB+IC build most likely

Build which doesn't exist anymore

[gaunt moat]

I'm just doing an FAQ review in a polite manner

[normal mist]

So it's safe to say that was KB+IC build which did not use amp poison

Yeah you did good, afaik no one was rude in their answers xD

[gaunt moat]

polite towards whispyr 😂

[normal mist]

Gotta hit him up, idk if he's awake already

[gaunt moat]

he was around like 30m ago

[normal mist]

@balmy condor hello kind sir, we need your attention!

[vestal wren]

i am fairly certain he is sleeping

[normal mist]

Wait

[gaunt moat]

oh right. he's american

[normal mist]

HE SLEEPS?

[vestal wren]

NA timezone

[gray crest]

He's west coast, so it's 0621 there

[normal mist]

I thought he never sleeps, he's literally always here!

😛

[gaunt moat]

just keep tagging him. it's urgent

[gray crest]

Pretty sure the reasoning is amp poison does the same base damage as instant poison, plus with the added envenom benefit makes it better than the other 2 options left

Assuming you are taking DTB and not KB

[vestal wren]

there is atm little reason to use KB

it is 4-5% behind

to put it in context, thats more than double dance on subtlety vs. single dance

[gray crest]

Yeah plus kb doesn't add much benefit in aoe, especially compared to DTB

[royal lantern]

tagging whisp is 100%normal at this point

beeing horny for whisp aswell

everyone wants that whispussy

[gusty mirage]

What the fuck did I just read

[gray crest]

What an unfortunate day to have eyes

[gaunt moat]

Remind me of when I was a mod.
I was getting around 20-30 DMs a day

[royal lantern]

i think whisp gets those in 40min

[marble hemlock]

Was actually thinking of just dropping Amp and picking TTK instead, so you can spam more CT in AoE instead. Same damage on Aoe, essentially, if not more, but would cost a bit of ST since you'd be running instant+DP instead. But definitely smth to explore at bit more at some point

[royal lantern]

i actually did that for AA tbh

idk, didnt feel a big difference

[gaunt moat]

What, you think his anime avatar is more attractive than my bunny?

[gaunt moat]

i tried. it sucks.

[rain mortar]

Is there any special tech for mythic senarth with Step?

[royal lantern]

whisp has cat ears

[gaunt moat]

you can use it at the end of the pull, and you'll be TPed back infront of her

[royal lantern]

1-0 for him

[gaunt moat]

I got 2 real cats

[royal lantern]

you get pulled down, you step her

thats it

[rain mortar]

Word

[marble hemlock]

Not really. Throughout the fight you can shadowstep her and you will put on a designated location. This updates kinda like a "checkpoint" system everytime she travels to the next platform, but explaining when the best times to step are is kinda difficult.

Basically, just get dragged into her every time, so you dont have to worry about webs, and just shadowstep once the drag has ended.

[late veldt]

Also dropping FD for 2 points in IP, is it for DS?

[marble hemlock]

In last phase you get kniocked away, same concept though, just step back to her.

[marble hemlock]

It's for damage. Poisons deal damage. More Poison procs = More damage.

[royal lantern]

ye, thats the only thing you have to watch out for, when she is moving up the stairs, step will put you in the middle of the stairs again

aka if you do it to early, you are back in the shit again

[marble hemlock]

Depends a bit

Theres a few "checkpoints" that put you on stairs

[gaunt moat]

Vram, just don't stand close and count on shadowstep.
if you use it too soon, you'll keep getting pulled

[marble hemlock]

others put you at the bottom or top, depending on where exactly she is

[royal lantern]

and i personaly dont use mousover step

killed me 2x

cus i stepped somone that was falling down and in the middle of my screen

certified skill issue

[marble hemlock]

Basically, still use webs and the rocks to not get dragged off as much as possible. But if it happens, you can use Shadowstep to not die

[royal lantern]

tbh, i avoid webs cus it feels like stairs are slightly shit when you have 2-3 stacks slow

[marble hemlock]

cloak/vanish/call for freedom

should have/use cloak everytime you run up stairs

[royal lantern]

freedom implies having a paladin

[rain mortar]

Or at least more than one Paladin haha

[thorn fjord]

@royal lantern best pull so far?

[royal lantern]

still 9%?

[thorn fjord]

ah it dies next raid night then

good stuff

[royal lantern]

thursday and tuesday ar my days

[gaunt moat]

9% on what

[thorn fjord]

Spider

We got Kurog to 13% yesterday

[upper crown]

Starting Kurog progression this week, is it recommended to play the 2 targe simt build to include crimson tempest or stick with the single target build and just keep garrotes/ruptures up on the add? Or worth just playing outlaw with 4.5k mastery

[thorn fjord]

First hour was people dying to dumb shit in p1 -_-

[gusty mirage]

You’re going to absolutely adore dathea

[thorn fjord]

Prob better to go with ST build

[gaunt moat]

I've been playing ST built on kurog yesterday.
i was mostly lowest on DPS meter.
i will try crimson next 🥲

[upper crown]

this is what I was expecting Sadge

[thorn fjord]

They dont even know how shitty its going to be... one dude was like Kurog harder than Dathea we gucci

and i was like brehhhhh

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[earnest remnant]

im gonna absolutely adore you

[gusty mirage]

[thorn fjord]

Over all dps wont matter much if youre full ST sin on Kurog... You wanna aim for top boss dmg being that its pretty much your job as Sin

[gaunt moat]

I wasn't even close to top ST damage.

[thorn fjord]

By P3 you should be

[gaunt moat]

and if you focus only boss and ignore add you will be kicked from raid 🙂

[thorn fjord]

i mean you garrote/rupture the big adds

but this is assuming that your raid group has enough cleave/ae to allow for you to sit full ST

Im playing OL atm for kurog

[gaunt moat]

i was mostly dpsing kurog, but i would say 30% of the time focusing add.

outlaw was doing more damage on kurog.

[thorn fjord]

Really depends on your group

[scenic marlin]

need to remember assa gets execute at 35% too

[gusty mirage]

[scenic marlin]

so later into the fight should be doing more right

[thorn fjord]

I spent the first prog night as sin and was top boss dmg when we started making p2-p3 transitions

[gaunt moat]

yes, best pull was 40%

[thorn fjord]

But the group is getting more value with me playing OL

[lethal mesa]

do you always want a vanish garrote for deathmark?

[fathom hound]

Hey team! I was wondering what the opener looks like on a boss using M+ talents?

I kinda assumed it was just double garrote -> rupture -> echoing -> rupture -> ex -> deathmark

[royal lantern]

same opener as the raid one, just without "whyisthisstillabone"spike

[fathom hound]

ohh

@royal lantern After you echoing reprimand, do you rupture again?

[proper tapir]

For max pandemic on exsang

[oblique jackal]

is it better to upgrade lariat to 418 or weapon

[royal lantern]

weapon

mainhand weapon ilvl is the most important thing in the game

[proper tapir]

You should try to sim it with the droptimizer on raidbot

[royal lantern]

lariat is just slightly more secondarys

[fathom hound]

would it be benefical to jsut go look at ass dungeon logs?

[royal lantern]

nah, not really

its just the same opener as we do in raids

nothing changes there

[fathom hound]

But what about exqaun?

[royal lantern]

you set up your bleeds, exsang and then dm

[proper tapir]

I mean... You have SnD up in M+ so it isn't the exact same

Don't slice your dice if you already have a huge slice already diced.

[fathom hound]

so garrote -> 5+ cp rupture -> exq -> DM-> shiv -> echoing

[proper tapir]

Woah no double Gar with imp Gar / shrouded?

[fathom hound]

well you always open with double garrote right? Since it gives 3 cps?

so its like garrote, garrote. rupture

[placid shoal]

How does Exsang interact with SBS?

does it bleed out 80% faster until a new one is applied or does it not work at all?

[slim hamlet]

it doesnt

[placid shoal]

Ok tyty

[royal lantern]

it did that for like 2hours in the SL alpha

and then was removed cus people crashed the server with it

[thorn fjord]

i member

[placid shoal]

LOL

[thorn fjord]

Mid pull when you have your second cast of DM you can gar gar rupture to DM

[lyric grail]

when i do the ST opener and next time my vanish + deathmark comes off cd

do i hold it 1 min for exsang?

or do i use it and hold exsang 2 min after that

[thorn fjord]

Depends on the fight length

[lyric grail]

6 min

were progressing on sennarth

[thorn fjord]

If its ending after 6:20-6:30 you can send exsang on CD

and it'll line up with 4th DM

[storm forum]

everything on CD and they should naturally line up at the end

[thorn fjord]

If the fight is less than 6 min long then yeah you can hold for the minute to gain more value on your last DM

You gotta make sure you'll be casting that third DM

[lyric grail]

before i use the 2nd exsang its a single cd i guess cause no vanish + no deathmark do i use my 2 globals before that for garrote + rupture application?

[thorn fjord]

I like to ER puzzle box Rupture garrote exsang

[storm forum]

yes refresh DoTs before exsang, even if you dont have empowered ones

[thorn fjord]

at the 3m mark

[lyric grail]

i see ty

and when i use the 1st deathmark + vanish ill use the vanish for a imp. garrote i guess? before deathmark

[storm forum]

in the opener? vanish is used either right before trinket+exsang+dm or during dm right when the exsanguinated garrote expires

[lyric grail]

i mean the 1st for the 2 min mark in the fight way after the oopener

[storm forum]

oh yeah, vanish gar -> vendetta.

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[storm forum]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[lyric grail]

thx

[lusty surge]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[proper tapir]

Personally, if I have SnD up in M+ i open on a boss with: Gar Rup Gar ER Rup Mut Box Exsang DM Env Shiv, all of that assuming I have those CDs.

[buoyant quail]

Im a Rogue noob myself but im trying to understand the benefit of doing two empowered Gar's on your opener? So you just over right an empowered gar that has only ticked for 1 or 2 secs with another empowered gar? Is there nothing else we can press for more value?

[thorn fjord]

Youre pressing the imp garrotes over mutilate because of the CP build SS gives

Does good dmg

also pand

[spice spire]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[spice spire]

But yeah mister die slow is correct

[thorn fjord]

[buoyant quail]

Oh damn i need to go back to basics then! Didnt there used to be an older pandemic version were you were give like a 5 sec window before it runs out and it will add it onto the fresh dot?

or they use both?

[limber lion]

That's literally it

You described the exact same effect

[timber basalt]

These 5 seconds apply at any duration, not just at the end

[buoyant quail]

Didnt you used to only get the pandemic 5 seconds at the end of the dot though?

[timber basalt]

No

Even the original warlock talent just added duration on iirc

[buoyant quail]

hmmm i played lock way back to maybe I just have the old-school way of thinking. May bad not that it matters, need to adjust. Learnt something new, even though its been around for ages apparently lol XD

[dreamy gull]

are consumables necessary for heroic content

i'd think no

[magic vine]

dungeons or raids?

[dreamy gull]

dungeons

[magic vine]

nah, though you can get cheap-level ones if you want a bit of a boost (ie crit food is like, 3g each or whatever)

[rapid forum]

Consumables are super irrelevant for heroic dungeons

[versed canopy]

is exang really strong enough to warrant it having a 3 min CD?

[grizzled gate]

Has anyone else recently had a UI glitch where your proper Combo Points are displayed on your Character Frame but when you have "Special Resources on Target" the ones on your Target are glitched and show the improper amount? Obviously this is a headache because I'll go to Eviscerate/Rupture with what I think is 5-6 Combo Points but really was 2. I've tried Vanilla UI, Plater and a Plater Import, nothing fixes the visual. Also, the incorrect number of points can be anything, sometimes it's 2 and should be 4, sometimes it will literally show the first 3 Combo Points as empty but the final 3 filled....

[versed canopy]

yes. its a known bug

[magic vine]

its been a bug for a while afaik, i just don't use cp on the personal resource display

[grizzled gate]

2 months into the xpac it's still unfixed? I just rerolled from a WW Monk as requested by my guild. That's kinda unacceptable.

[magic vine]

its older than that lol

[versed canopy]

i havent noticed since DF

but its happening for feral druid as well

[lyric grail]

If I play assa on sennarth mythic, and my guild lust on pull, do I just ignore the spider and go full boss rota?

[woeful meteor]

put one gar on spider and ignore it

maybe throw a bone spike at it after the opener

[lyric grail]

Ok Ty gonna try that out

[uneven echo]

Hey, is this info right?

wow i cant link the site here lol

[stuck knoll]

The link is not

don't follow bis guides but if you are you're better off following the ones written by WoWhead or Icy veins for rogue

rather than random websites

[uneven echo]

ok

sucks cuz wowhead is blocked in my country 😦

and icy veins still didn't released the new patch guide

[slow marsh]

good thiing we have #assassination-faq

[royal lantern]

why is wowhead banned

im curious

[gray crest]

There's always noxxic

[royal lantern]

dont say the N word

[uneven echo]

idk, it says they stop operating in thailand.. i just moved here recently so kinda getting used to play without wowhead, true gamer challenge

[gaunt moat]

china 👀

[uneven echo]

yea i also thought that's the reason, player base here are too low and many are migrating to other mmos

[gusty mirage]

Wowhead is owned by tencent tho

[outer cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/chipmunk-dramatic-gif-4265641

[balmy condor]

Yah there’s random stuff like that I missed sorry :(

[balmy condor]

I’m always around, until I’m not :P

[slow marsh]

How could you

[gray crest]

https://tenor.com/view/skyrim-intro-awake-finally-awake-gif-22633549

[balmy condor]

Quick 4-5 hour nap

Real good stuff

[slow marsh]

I hear that 8 hour naps are better though

[balmy condor]

Cap

[gray crest]

There's a certain time of day where a nap is just considered sleeping

[storm forum]

every nap is a sleep but not every sleep is a nap

[spice spire]

[magic eagle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[subtle tundra]

my friend told me we'd meet in 2 hours, he took a 6.5h nap

💀

[storm forum]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[storm forum]

whispyr why dont i like DTB?

[balmy condor]

I’ve been sick for a while now, yesterday was pretty bad. Was supposed to wake up at 9 to be at my gf’s at 10. Texted her at 9:05, fell asleep. Woke up at 10:30, apologized, fell asleep before she could respond, woke up at 1:45, I have work at 2

Because dtb is very boring

[subtle tundra]

actual legend

[storm forum]

feel better whispyr

thanks for validating me

[slow marsh]

dang all this cuz dtb? Thoughts and prayers

[balmy condor]

Thanks, it’s been a long struggle, pneumonia in mid December, and then the cough has swelled up and down since

Kinda unlucky

Is what it is

[lament warren]

i’m sorry whispyr

[balmy condor]

Is all good

I’m feeling fine

Just coughing like I got bubonic plague

[lament warren]

be that way sometimes 😔

[opaque sparrow]

someone knows how to disable the focus target option if you click the middle mouse button on a unitframe?

nvm found it

[ebon thorn]

@balmy condor

is atrophic only on melee attacks?

or is it all dmg

[balmy condor]

All damage from that target

[versed canopy]

does atprphoc poison interact with shiv?

[balmy condor]

No

[versed canopy]

why not?

[dire trout]

Hey there, just wanna confirm from the faq: For the ST exsang opener at the echo stage are we using envenom or whatever to then try to build to an echoed combo point, or just say screw it and send 5 CP rupture?
I.e.: garrote snd garrote echo rupture spike vanish garrote exsang DM envenom shiv tea and roll

[midnight phoenix]

Kingsbane for Rasz still?

[frosty cedar]

anyone else freezing slightly when casting a stealth garrote in raid after patch?

[dire trout]

Depends on location for me. Wasn't associating it with stealth garrote though. hmm

[proper tapir]

You are missing a 3cp rupture after the 2nd Gar. If you land on a charged CP then you send a finisher.

[dire trout]

Ah yep there it is. Turns out I still can't read.

Thanks lol

[green juniper]

gentleman.. I started wow 27 days ago and hit 2k m+ score and 7/8 hc today..

[lament warren]

grats

[lyric grail]

rly ? and ure a member here since 2015 😄

[proper tapir]

Did you do all that as Sin? This information will change how I emoji your post

[green juniper]

not really since jan 08 xd

[spice spire]

Huge

[green juniper]

yep outlaw didnt fit my rogue fantasy and I dont know anything about sub tbh

[storm forum]

Damn, 27 days after I started playing wow I was still killing wolves in goldshire

[distant mesa]

Don't tell them about goldshire inn on moongaurd...

[glossy galleon]

do we like ap for fortified weeks?

[subtle tundra]

we dont like ap

[glossy galleon]

aw

[storm forum]

i like AP

[fading mason]

Jes

[strong badger]

is the ghostblade transmog available again with mage tower being available in dragonflight?

[steel ridge]

i dont think so

its just the armor set

[strong badger]

hmm alright! thank you for the response/help : )

[storm forum]

someone in my guild got the bear, so i thought the weapons were also available

[safe cape]

Druids get the fel bear appearance, not the original one right?

[steel ridge]

yes

[storm onyx]

We have half raid lagging at Terros after a couple pulls. Like half sec freezes. Relogging fixes. Similar isse on PrimalC

[storm forum]

o i didnt know it was a different one

[steel ridge]

druids are the only class that gets extra

[fathom hound]

@proper tapir On the ST opener for DTB, when do I reapply rupture after deathmark echoing?

[storm forum]

where's our hot pink ghostblades? 😠

[proper tapir]

If you exsanged the rupture then after it is over/done. Otherwise in pandemic window.

[steel ridge]

sadge

[fathom hound]

So we dont really use deathmark for the double bleed?

[proper tapir]

Deathmark will automatically mirror your bleeds on the target

[fathom hound]

I thoguht they only did that after you applied it

neat

[proper tapir]

Yeah so as long as you have Gar and Rup on the target it'll double them. That's why we try to DM the exsanged and empowered bleeds.

[fathom hound]

So its basically double bleed dmg for 16 secs

[proper tapir]

And poisons, yeah. So we want to fit CDs into those 16 secs to get the most of the effects

[fathom hound]

Okay okay

And do I ever use echoing rupture outside of exq CD?

I dont right?

[ionic fox]

Anyone got a WA for if you are in range of Windfury totem?

[dark bridge]

It doesn't matter what uses echoing reprimand combo points

[formal cliff]

Just use echoing on cd

if it happens to be when you need to refresh rupture pandemic go for it

[fathom hound]

Ive been making this much more complicated than it needed to be lol

[proper tapir]

Use the charged points for whatever you need to finish. Don't try to target a specific finisher. Use on CD and use the CPs

[ionic fox]

If you have time to not refresh rupture in a shiv window avoid it. otherwise send it. If its going to fall just refresh.

[fathom hound]

Waht exaclty is a shiv window?

[proper tapir]

When the target has shiv, because you casted shiv on it

[fathom hound]

Well yeah, but do I do anything special?

Thought it was jsut envenom spam

[winter vapor]

question around M+, are folks keybinding tea with shiv and pressing on Shiv CD, or are you having a different keybind for the tea /tea & shiv combo?

also do we fire Exsang off on CD or are we trying to line with with DM?

[proper tapir]

You just play normal in shiv windows. Don't let bleeds fall off and spam Env, if you pool for Env then don't do that in shiv windows.

[proper tapir]

I have different keybinds but I see what you are saying. I like to keep tea charges for energy to get bleeds up.

[winter vapor]

hmm, yeah

feels a bit wasteful outside of opener if im spamming shiv on cd

[proper tapir]

Okay, then macro them together man! It's Sin, if you do a +12 in time you're already world 200 rank and can feel like a champion - why min/max it.

[winter vapor]

you make a valid point ^^

i just dream of doing whispyr numbers :p

[proper tapir]

Then you need to unbind them and keep tea for energy, sorry babe.

[echo heath]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[earnest imp]

So i tried Exsanga today at progress

so ye fuck that

[rare jackal]

my condolences

[earnest imp]

Also afterwards ran the sim, and only got an 600-300 dps diff in different length fights

is there something raidbot isnt accounting for

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/cpU7mvTjNGGt8Rk3jEt7AC

this is a 10min sim

[crimson sedge]

!log

[prisma monolith]

Wowanalyzer now has good initial support for Assassination. We suggest using it to quickly see any big rotational mistakes and analyze your ability usage

Link: https://wowanalyzer.com/

[crimson sedge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/DQhbpYLWB3ZRja91#fight=17&type=damage-done

[left summit]

noob

[spice spire]

Be nice

[bronze pike]

read 👀

[minor valve]

My guess is Puzzle Box is a large part of what makes Exsanguinate especially good. I just ran a sim for my character and see a 0.9% difference between the two talent builds you included. (I have and use a Box.)

[thorny pond]

Where my box

[viscid spear]

Look down, brother

[spice spire]

Soon brethren

[thorny pond]

I’ve been farming

No luck

[magic vine]

get yourself a box

[spice spire]

Same. I got it on my portal run

Well the paly got it and said “I have a 402 anyway, what’s 3 ilvl, here you go”

[thorny pond]

I need that friend

So burnt out, geared an alt to 400

[spice spire]

Dk is like 384

Did full normal clear

[strange python]

I have full blown indecision about what alt to make

DK or warrior

[spice spire]

Dk for cursed externals

Warrior for cursed tech

[shut thistle]

Got a puzzlebox. When is the best time to use it?

[storm forum]

in the same global as Exsanguinate

[shut thistle]

But it is a cast. That is what perplexed me.

[spice spire]

Off GCD

So ideally, your ability hits, while waiting on your locked GCD. The cast is going off

[shut thistle]

Alright, so macroing with Exsanguinate makes sense then.

[deep fjord]

trying to play assas next CD, does anyone recommend nice video tutorial for newbies

[spice spire]

Generally don’t recommend videos, they’re quickly outdated and take a ton of work, so they’re few and far in between

[tacit oracle]

and they usually just copy-paste info anyway

[thorny pond]

Some good streamers out there though! Raider.io is a good place to start and look for ones you vibe with

[next arch]

!gems

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[next arch]

so, mainstat crit, and 2 more crit gems right?

nvm, sim it.

[royal lantern]

good boy 🙂

[next arch]

😊

[pulsar dirge]

any tricks for sennarth? (talent im not thinking or shadowstep use that negates mechanic) Any of you saved vanish to clear speed debuff?

[raw raft]

just use shadowstep for all the pulls so you don't have to run to narnia

[hollow river]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[tiny finch]

with exsang, on the next vanish, do we just garrote rupture garrote? im trying to find it in the faq with no sucess

not the opener, the vanish after

2nd burst

[balmy condor]

you want to ER rupture, and vanish garrote

before you exsang->deathmark

it's the same logic

max pandemic both rupture and garrote

vanish the garrote to empower it

and then exsang

[tiny finch]

thank you brother! still getting used to exsang build

[rancid spade]

bring kb back

[tiny finch]

so we save ER for the next burst yeah

[balmy condor]

it doesn't quite line up

[tiny finch]

ah i see

[balmy condor]

if you can't easily ER->rup

just max pandemic a normal rupture with 5-6cp like you would normally

[tiny finch]

gotcha

[balmy condor]

better to just use ER on cooldown than trying to force a weird timing overlap

[sonic widget]

So I see theres a single target talent build. And there are M+ builds. What talents do people use for the aoe raid fights?

[balmy condor]

council has its own build since it's specifically 4 target, and kurog is a bit of a toss-up

you either play single target on kurog or you play 2 target

[sonic widget]

I didn't see those in the FAQ. Where do yall find these at?

[balmy condor]

wowhead

[sonic widget]

Ty!

[balmy condor]

np

[sonic widget]

I normally heal. Dps is a whole new ballgame to me lol

[balmy condor]

yeh

if you're playing assassination, honestly you can just play the single target build on every fight

no one plays assassination because of their aoe

[signal rivet]

Is there any reason Flaring Cowl should be simming higher than either of the weapon embellishments (no ring), I compared it to a same ilvl helm and weapon, just switching the embellishments

[balmy condor]

like you're never going to hit adds on broodkeeper, you shouldn't need to go up on dathea platforms

[balmy condor]

cause it's better

[brazen zodiac]

:D

[sonic widget]

I leveled as outlaw but I kinda hate the outlaw feel. I'm a rogue because I wanna be stabby. Not swordy. lol

[signal rivet]

Huh, I thought it was listed as useless if you don't have the ring

[balmy condor]

it was until they re-statted some tier and we made new gear sets

[slim hamlet]

Sorry, this is hours ago. But my man said "why not?" 💀

[balmy condor]

yeh I was in bed and just turned my phone off and rolled over when I saw that tbh

[signal rivet]

Cool, finally a use for my LWing. Thanks for all the info (in this situation and all)

[balmy condor]

np

[slim hamlet]

How come you havn't buffed KB yet @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

yeah my bad bro

[slim hamlet]

Do better

[balmy condor]

it's my fault talents are bad

just make them sim better

optimize them mr theorycrafter wtf

[slim hamlet]

still waiting on sepsis SD stuff

Or whatever it was Seli was talking about

[balmy condor]

yeah no that's doomed

[hollow river]

[slim hamlet]

Seems like a TC skill issue

Not a talent issue

[ebon notch]

Stepsis?

[versed canopy]

@slim hamlet its ok, i wasnt expecting an actual answer. it was rhetorical.

[slim hamlet]

Imagine having to use shiv as a raid cd

Would make us required on at least some bosses but man

[hoary abyss]

anyone have a weak aura that just adds a coundown timer to our bleeds/slice and dice

[balmy condor]

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[balmy condor]

any of these

[astral rain]

Yo i have a question to you assas main guys :X is maybe someone here who did the assas mage tower who could help me out abit i have some questions

[balmy condor]

whats the question

[astral rain]

Uhm my question would have been if there is someone here maybe that has some time to watch me do the mage tower and give me some calls what to do better or some stuff

[balmy condor]

oh

yeh i dont got time for that

[rancid spade]

just
/cast [@boss1] Blind
/cast [@boss3] Kidney Shot
2 macros and cleave

[balmy condor]

theres a guide in the pins

on wowhead

[astral rain]

allready read it but id need a little lifecoaching thats the way i learn the fastes do you know :x

[true rapids]

I would give sub a try it was a lot more forgiving for MT

[astral rain]

0 clue about sub sadly

[true rapids]

same

but there's alot less overlapping mechanics to deal with so as a whole it's easier

[balmy condor]

yeh but sub is a dps check

idk

assassination's mage tower has like 3-4 overlaps you need to learn

I don't think it's this big scary mechanical web people make it out to be

[true rapids]

I was hitting above what the guide said for dps and got stonewalled because the blind kept getting broken somehow

[balmy condor]

okay

[true rapids]

but even sloppy sub play was able to be completed

[balmy condor]

then only use blind to interrupt the cast instead

[hoary abyss]

@balmy condor is there a weak aura to just add countdown timers and nothing else? just to the icons on the normal target/ui?

[astral rain]

i just take so much dmg

[balmy condor]

dont stand close to jarl when he throws axes

[sick aspen]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

oh, no idea

but yeh dunno

if you're just ticking out on sin mage tower

you're either face tanking the axes

or you're not kiting the enrage

the autos from sigryn and the casts from runecarver can be outhealed pretty comfortably

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[strange python]

is sin more m+ viable now? like compared to outlaw/sub atm

[balmy condor]

depends what you mean by "more viable now"

it's just as viable as it's been all expansion

[weak isle]

focus on ur boss Whispyr 😠

[balmy condor]

I am laser focused

on my guild afking

for..... no reason

[strange python]

Dathea?

I'd rather ark than do dathea.

Afk

[brazen zodiac]

[severe sparrow]

im not blind, the terros build in the wowhead guide is definitely the same as the generic raid dtb build right?

[balmy condor]

yep

every single target build should be the generic raid dtb

[carmine dawn]

||i am having fun playing assassination spec rogue||

[dusty granite]

What % of my sim dps should i be performing in a raid? like what would be normal for a normal raid or heroic raid?

[oak sky]

🧢

[carmine dawn]

just gotta get used to popping box using puzzlebox

[oak sky]

Depends on buffs, but you should be pretty close to sim dps assuming full buffs

[carmine dawn]

and by used to i mean just using it

[south stratus]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[dusty granite]

lol thats not what i wanted to hear... but ty

[balmy condor]

not really how that metric works honestly

you'll never hit 100%

and trying to compare a sim versus a raid is already flawed

[oak sky]

Pretty close is like

Maybe a few thousand down

It depends on a lot of shit

Fight length, uptime etc

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean it's just not a good metric to compare to tbh

like I'm much closer to my sim on terros

versus dathea

but I'm pure single target on both

[oak sky]

Yeah its always within reason right

[carmine dawn]

sim dps means nothing

think of it solely to see what gear is better in a vacuum

then do your best

[balmy condor]

very based

[carmine dawn]

i cant believe i almost played exsang

you're so right

[idle coyote]

We need to have a helmet role for some people

[carmine dawn]

this feels so much easier

[balmy condor]

we do

it's called "outlaw"

[idle coyote]

There is some beautiful takes in all 3 channels

[balmy condor]

what beautiful tale was in here recently

[carmine dawn]

toxic

here i am bridging the gap

saying assa is fun

@spice spire you worship a false idol

[idle coyote]

Bump

[balmy condor]

oh

ye

[idle coyote]

I will be bumping this thread for days to come

[idle coyote]

It’s just funny stuff, I’m sure it’s in all discords

[dusty granite]

im just trying to figure out if my best is doo doo but ty for the advice

[carmine dawn]

well then you gotta look at logs with someone

rotation + uptime x ilvl = parse

someone can check my math on that

but realistically yeah just hit dummys with the proper rotation

get logs

[ebon notch]

bruh

no shot you didnt play exsang

[carmine dawn]

@balmy condor

he told me not to

[ebon notch]

was it cause you were complaining about the difficulty and he wanted you off his back?

[carmine dawn]

no he said exsang isnt worth

if you're using exsang for shield dmg, its only 1 shield

is p3 exsang more "meaningful" damage or is that not a real thing

the more p1 and p2 dmg the less p3 you need

[ebon notch]

p1 damage is irrelevant

the push is % based

you cant milk the boss at all

[carmine dawn]

does p2 have any milk

[ebon notch]

yes

time between shields is fixed

so you can milk between shields

[carmine dawn]

so the real argument is just overall p2+p3 vs exsang p2 p3?

[balmy condor]

HM?

[ebon notch]

idk ur only there to hit the boss basically

does exsang do more damage?

if yes then i will play it

[balmy condor]

on raz?

[ebon notch]

if there's another node i can take that will make me do more? then ill take that instead

yeah

[balmy condor]

exsang does less boss damage

[ebon notch]

than what

whats the alternative

[balmy condor]

than ip

[ebon notch]

even in p3?

during lust and sub 35%?

[balmy condor]

overall

[ebon notch]

i mean overall is just p2 and p3 basically

[balmy condor]

yes

[ebon notch]

and p3 is in "execute" for almost the entirety of the phase

[balmy condor]

correct

[ebon notch]

and exsang is still worse?

[balmy condor]

yeah?