assassination

[languid pier]

I start garrote+serrated+garrote

Slice and dice

Then echoing+rupture* and deathmark

[normal olive]

i sure hope you mean rupture

[languid pier]

yh srry

[minor valve]

Logging off and back on should do it.

[ornate topaz]

And do I wait for 10 stacks of amplifying poison or I just shoot it whenever 5CP and enough energy?

[balmy condor]

Just send it

[strange python]

Do I shed a single tear when alacrity falls on pure ST during lust just because it wouldn't reapply 5 finishers in a row?

[balmy condor]

You stop tracking it

[strange python]

But

Then how will I add to my depression

[balmy condor]

You play sin

[topaz bluff]

Is there a way to make details not reset/create new log with the vanish? Some reason if I try to test damage on the dummy i always end up with an opening log and a continuation until the next vanish it seems. I assume it is the vanish doing it.

[balmy condor]

You don’t need more

[strange python]

😦 revert our nerfs plz

[balmy condor]

I personally just log it

But there’s some overall things for details

I Just cba

[static glacier]

Anyone got a wa that calculates time to kill?

Really struggling to decide between 3 and 4 min box timings on some fight since they’re around 6 mins KT

[topaz bluff]

Thank ya

[ornate topaz]

whats next week _

?

[dreamy gull]

What gear should I try to get first once I hit 70

I'm like 69 50% XP now so I can probably hit 70 when I get home after work

[tiny ember]

Do we get sparks next week from like everything ?

[royal lantern]

well, now hes not 10k behind, but 9,8k behind

bam, problem solved, not 10k behind anymore

[ornate topaz]

how do you DTB+IC? there is not enough talents for that is there?

[dreamy elk]

This seems kind of nuts to me:

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/axa7sfnrBouLd2JaaadgzZ

2 piece Raging Tempest (385 gear) equivalent to 2x 411 ilvl armor pieces. Obviously big stamina difference, but surprised the DPS holds up that much.

[stray mural]

Is it 411?

Hmm maybe I don’t craft boots with a spark then and try to just valor bump some gear

[dreamy elk]

The Raging Tempest pieces are 385. The armor pieces I'm gear comparing it to are 411.

[stray mural]

Oh word

[dreamy elk]

And they're essentially equal in DPS for sim.

But that's pretty nuts.

[stray mural]

Yeah replacing my 2 set has been really tough. I ran a sim and valor bumped bracers and crafted boots are the only way I beat them by 1%

[lament warren]

it’s cuz of the 100+ secondary stat bonus

[cobalt bramble]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[ornate topaz]

guys whats the deal with Whisp writing here we will play DTC+IC ?

[thorn crater]

Our tree changes Tuesday to allow us to run that spec @ornate topaz

[azure flare]

kingsbane next reset is pretty bad

[ornate topaz]

woooot serious? can anyone please share link?

It was my dream playing DTC with IC 😄

[thorn crater]

It's literally in the 10.0.5 changes

[ornate topaz]

thank you

[thorn crater]

Just Google them

[ornate topaz]

I will look for it

thank you @thorn crater

[languid pier]

@balmy condor srry i took to much

i did the test on dummy and im doing 38-40k dps

in 2m17s test

can put video if needed

Idk what im doing wrong and is taking on my nerves

[thorn crater]

Did you run your target dummy sim for 2 mins or is it set to 5m?

[pure moth]

Run a lfr and log it. That way you can share logs here for feedback

[languid pier]

I did test on a dummy myself

imma put it on 2m too on the sim

[languid pier]

I got the logs form todays raid but idk if that's gonna work

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7rzPs183n6RVh1u4Rh8j1s

More or less the same i was doing in the dummy

38-39k

[pure moth]

They usually help more than a sim because it shows what you're actually doing.

[languid pier]

I have the one's from my guild

[storm onyx]

hm just realized Acro outranges cowl. lol

[oblique jackal]

Cowl has a range ?

[viscid spear]

Well yeah, the AoE range of the fire damage

[rich scaffold]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[willow sundial]

Is there a pin or something regarding % dmg gain or loss for the patch wed?

[proper tapir]

Post the log from guild if it is public. Otherwise we have no idea what to tell you to improve

[pure moth]

Click the link above. Hes got a ptr tab with the info

[languid pier]

https://es.warcraftlogs.com/reports/72QZkd1WmrxwnTzB/#fight=last&pins=0%24Separate%24%23244F4B%24damage%240%240.0.0.Any%24162147238.0.0.Rogue%24true%240.0.0.Any%24false%240&type=damage-done&source=3

Todfay most of them are wipes

https://es.warcraftlogs.com/reports/bgvBwhmFVaqR3nKN/ the one's there are from Wednesday reset day

My char is Ascad

[shut owl]

do a log command so we can thread it

I don't want to spam the main channel but I can look at your logs atm

[sudden canyon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[sudden canyon]

!mut

[prisma monolith]

Ambush is currently only used with non-venthyr builds using subterfuge
The reasoning is a little complicated, but the most important of them is the difference in combo points on crit (up to 4 vs 3) and it's interaction with Flagellation.
You also have to consider the additional poison application chances. Ambush is not considerably worse or better in any situation, so you aren't losing out on much if you don't use it.

[sudden canyon]

uhhh

!blindside

[prisma monolith]

Ambush/Mutilate Macro:
This should be seen as a "lazy" option, and is not recommended. It can be hard to control and requires a third-party macro addon to expand the games base functionality. We recommend ALWAYS keybinding ambush (either with a modifier, or an entirely different key)
You can macro Ambush to Mutilate using a advanced macro addon.
Further Explanation/Details:
#assassination message

[sudden canyon]

!snap

[prisma monolith]

Explanation of snapshotting

Bleeds update their tick rate dynamically, which means that if you get a haste proc (which increases our tick rate) from somewhere during the encounter (ie. Flagellation, Euphoria), the bleeds would automatically tick faster, but the second your haste goes back to normal, the tick rate goes back down as well.

Snapshotting refers to getting that haste proc, reapplying bleeds at the faster tick rate, but instead of the bleeds going back to a slower tick rate when your haste drops, they would continue ticking at a faster rate until they expire or are reapplied.

[languid pier]

Log command?

[shut owl]

type in "! log" but without the space. it will make a thread

[languid pier]

!log

[echo heath]

got a 405 whelpshell

i'm assuming its best to train the single target attack first?

filtering warcraft logs gives me a mixed bag

[shut owl]

I believe theres an option to sim it with various training profiles on raidbots

yeah, there is. under the simulation options you can choose whatever whelp training under the trinket options menu

[frozen turtle]

I’m curious what we should expect for sin rogues in 10.0.5 with respect to pve ?

[strange python]

Is there a place to show me how to properly read logs?

[frozen turtle]

Was finally getting the hang of the different options and sticking with KB as main raid spec

[shut owl]

a lot of it is just critical thinking about what you are looking for. what are you trying to do wattsons?

[echo heath]

i love me some critical thinking

[strange python]

just seeing where i can improve.

[pallid mesa]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[shut owl]

okay, so what's not meeting expectations? are your bleed uptimes not good? are you wasting a lot of CP generation? wasting energy? like... those are the questions to ask, and the answers are there in the numbers somewhere. exploring a bit is going to get you better and finding those answers

[vocal oracle]

is there anywhere i can look at updated talent trees for assisination?

for 10.0.5

[slow marsh]

Pins

[vocal oracle]

ty

[slim hamlet]

ehm

Is there tho?

Think its only in here and then the ptr tab

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[shut owl]

the talent tree calculators are on wowhead's ptr tab if you want to play with stuff

[tawdry canyon]

Hi all, looking to maybe make rogue alt for keys. Where does assassination fall in terms of difficulty to play properly vs the other 2 rogue specs in keys?

[slim hamlet]

For m+ sin is def the most stressful

[worn panther]

Easily the hardest, but overall all are just getting used to

Think Affli lock on keys really

You have ways to multi-dot cleave, but overall you're spreading dots instead of slamming big buttons

[tawdry canyon]

Sin is my favorite rogue spec I just don’t know how much effort I’ll put into the alt

I’ll give it a shot tho

[worn panther]

Biggest thing, people hate Sin rogue on LFG, so good luck with that xD

"You don't Outlaw"?

[royal lantern]

idk, never had somone say a word

like

people invite rogue and dont go further lol

[worn panther]

Has happened to me like, 5 or 6 times durin SL

[brazen nimbus]

418 alchemist stone better than 411 grieftorch ? XD

[slim hamlet]

sim it

i doubt tho

[tawdry canyon]

I mostly run with a full group of friends god bless 🙏

[brazen nimbus]

simmed +300 for me, which is why i asked

seems odd, how is the uptime ? :p

oh nvm i had 2 targets

[dark arrow]

I was reviewing the class changes for 10.0.5, and was wondering what was everyones thoughts on the sin changes. Think the shiv passive will actually make a noticeable improvement for M+? Having Kingsbane and Dragon-Tempered Blades as a choice node is it a good thing and which option will most people take?

[thorn crater]

KB is going to fall is the general consensus

[dark arrow]

i'm sure ppl have talked about it a bit already but these channels get so many messages finding specific discussion is like finding a needle in a hay stack.

[thorn crater]

Our go to is going to be DTB+IC

[slim hamlet]

Yeah u wont even take the new capstone in m+

and KB will not be talentable other than maybe raszageth

[hollow river]

[magic vine]

dtb+ic going to edge the new talent+ic out it looks like, though its simming close

[slim hamlet]

Like Seliathan said it seems like u heal bosses when playing ap+ic

[magic vine]

suffers on st but does a decent amount more on the aoe portion

[dark arrow]

i'd expect that for raid/single target for sure. I was wondering if the new talent ap will be useful in M+ with all the trash pulls and be able to bring sin up more for M+. Like as whispyr and others will say you can play sin in M+ but generally outlaw and sub are stronger, and when I saw the change I was hoping it would bring sin more inline with them.

[slim hamlet]

U won't be taking it in m+ generally sadly

[magic vine]

its mostly a question of what is taking the most time or is most annoying to get through on a given week

because the m+ build is pretty weak in st

[dark arrow]

just too much of a dps loss by not having dtb + ic by taking it?

[slim hamlet]

u lose like 11% st and only gain ~5% I believe in AOE by taking new talent instead

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[magic vine]

raw numbers you gain more than you lose, but yea

[slim hamlet]

I mean

[magic vine]

11k v 10k

[slim hamlet]

Numbers says dtb is better and current best sin rogue for m+ says its better

I doubt its much to discuss

[magic vine]

like i said, numbers wise on the dslice sim its close enough that its about the dmg profiles

[slim hamlet]

Surely they hotfix AP to be 40% real quick

[dark arrow]

well its kind of a shame, would be great to see all 3 rogue specs be on par with one another in all content. I know its unlikely to ever happen, perhaps impossible. I just think it would wonderful to see Sin, Outlaw, and Sub all be equally strong in ST and AOE.

[slim hamlet]

This prob won't ever happen

But its not like sin is bad in m+

Just not op like the other 2

[dark arrow]

yeah for sure. Just makes me sad. Everytime I see tweeks I get hopeful and then let down lol.

[magic vine]

new dtb is stronger than current kb so its an improvement

[oak sky]

Losing zoldyck makes it less of an increase

[next edge]

Are we ready for Wed

and have a wave of yellow names saying how to play sin/sub coz outlaw is dead

by a 1,5% nerf?

[slim hamlet]

Real reason outlaw is ded is cuz the 5% stam nerf 🙂

[west swallow]

I haven’t looked at the class changes, we won’t be taking zoldyck anymore?

[dense herald]

I think a combination of outlaw nerfs, other class buffs and how quick all the adds/fights in raid are becoming will really hurt outlaw

[gusty mirage]

if they're in here they're in the wrong place

[strange python]

how do you not run out of energy in rotation?

[slim hamlet]

u dont

[strange python]

[next edge]

I can't wait for Wed

go to Sennarath

and see spider explode

[gusty mirage]

they'll just go to sub

[next edge]

because the buffs everyone got

[gusty mirage]

or reroll warrior

[next edge]

Keep them away of my channel

[gusty mirage]

no one actively plays this spec

except people who really enjoy the playstyle

[next edge]

Sin is super cool playstyle

[gusty mirage]

everyone else begrudgingly plays assassination

and only deal with it because it's strong in ST

except oh wait

sub is better there too

how weird

[strange python]

i play sin cus outlaw is not as interesting as other people make it seem

[slim hamlet]

Sin enjoyers are few in numbers

But strong in mind

or

[strange python]

and its still better than sub imo

[slim hamlet]

well

[next edge]

Nah

[slim hamlet]

maybe not

[subtle tundra]

outlaw is for L(osers)

[next edge]

that's not true at all

[gusty mirage]

guess I should swap outlaw then

[oak sky]

not in keys

[ember relic]

Naw I ran across another sin in the wild today

[next edge]

Sub is still the least played spec

[strange python]

the only thing that sucks about sin is the survivability

[next edge]

across rogues and almost overall in game

[next edge]

How does it suck

[shut owl]

? sin feels more survivable than sub lol

[next edge]

Rogue overall is a super stubborn class lol

[strange python]

go get trained in arena

[slim hamlet]

Does that mean that sin doesnt have low playercount?

[shut owl]

sub's defensives and utilities are used for dps

[slim hamlet]

Just because sub has less

[gusty mirage]

???

there's literally 1000 more sin rogues than sub rogues

[royal lantern]

and assa not???

[next edge]

Thats what I said

Sub is least played

[gusty mirage]

and fire mage, survival hunter, enhancement shaman, and frost dk

would love a word with you

[royal lantern]

im 1 of those

[next edge]

@gusty mirage

[slim hamlet]

Sin def has the worst defensives of rogue

but we are rogue so who cares

[hoary remnant]

All 3 rogues specs were never this close. You can play any of the 3 and be super good. Depending on the fight they are all very close (5%l

[next edge]

ENha/Frost are more played than sub right now iirc

Enha for sure

as its op

[hoary remnant]

Except kurog or terros mythic were some specs shine more

[slim hamlet]

@next edge

[next edge]

I dont think they have low

[slim hamlet]

What u mean u dont think

its legit facts?

[next edge]

yes its facts but if you take last week parses

[slim hamlet]

we are bottom 6 in heroic and bottom 5 in mythic

[gusty mirage]

sorry was looking at frost dk

[slim hamlet]

and we are really low in m+

[oak sky]

frost is actually good

[royal lantern]

@gusty mirage wanna go full doomer togheter?

[gusty mirage]

nothing to doom about

[next edge]

UH is just a monster

[gusty mirage]

I've been told I'm overreacting

[next edge]

compared to frost

[gusty mirage]

"assassination is still good"

[slim hamlet]

UH bangs

[gusty mirage]

still trying to figure out what we're good at

[oak sky]

well yeah sepsis got buffed

so

[slow marsh]

being mid

[slim hamlet]

wat

[gusty mirage]

SEPSIS BUFFED LOGIN

[next edge]

yeah Sin is mid

[gusty mirage]

it is

it is very mid

[slim hamlet]

still upgrade from irl 🙂

[royal lantern]

weekly wowhead heroic posts, that causes people to say all rogue specs are op, and that dh was overhyped

thats where assa shines

[ember relic]

What single target build you guys using?

[oak sky]

dh is b tier

[slim hamlet]

[oak sky]

look at the tier lists

dh is clearly b tier

[gusty mirage]

its not even worth dooming about

[slim hamlet]

looking at overall in raid is always the best way to tell which specs are good

[gusty mirage]

it is what it is

[slim hamlet]

what do you mean

[gusty mirage]

I just find it funny that when I start "dooming" people tell me I'm overreacting

but when guy does it

everyone's like HELL YEAH

[royal lantern]

the popular opinion is LEGIT that DH is "not that good" cus they play dh like shit and cant pull numbers

[slim hamlet]

thats because guy plays the superior spec

[royal lantern]

when dh is so broken, its not eben funny anymore

[gusty mirage]

but idk apparently outlaw rogue is dead now

[slim hamlet]

so he is more right

[gusty mirage]

because they lost some CP on pistol shot fth procs

and 1.5% dps

for whatever the fuck else they're losing

[oak sky]

[next edge]

Outlaw deadge

indeed

[gusty mirage]

oh and 5% stamina

[plush cedar]

5% survival nerf super dedge

[slim hamlet]

Outlaw playstyle is deadge

[gusty mirage]

god forbid they lose 5% stamina

[slim hamlet]

pressing pistol shot and not getting full cp

is oof

[gusty mirage]

unplayable

[royal lantern]

dude, i lost all respect i had to guy during DF alpha and constantly meme on him, wdym

[slim hamlet]

but the dmg is insignificant

[gusty mirage]

well that's not very nice

he's still a good dude and a damn good player

[oak sky]

restless crew

restless crew

[gusty mirage]

he's just a little... hot headed

[royal lantern]

remember the "guy spams tradechat with NERF OUTLAW in the PTR" arc?

[slim hamlet]

Has he said spec is dead

or was that made up

[gusty mirage]

idk

I don't go over there

every time I step in outlaw I make one of the 11 year olds angry

so I stopped

similar reason why I don't go into sub anymore

[oak sky]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[slim hamlet]

Didnt actually see that much dooming in there when I went on a trolling spree

[gusty mirage]

I make the 42 year olds who still play wow upset

[royal lantern]

guy is a great TC and insane player, and a cool dude overall, but has the worst 1trick mindset

[slim hamlet]

Sub is nice

[royal lantern]

[gusty mirage]

I hope they nerf us again

just for fun

[slim hamlet]

they told me to press BP more to gain higher overall instead of timing key faster with evis funnel

[gusty mirage]

time to learn purple monk

ig

[slim hamlet]

purple monk being dh?

[gusty mirage]

purple monk being danse macabre sub rogue

[shut owl]

1mil damage sectecs on raz is fun

[oak sky]

if sub had double dance it would be such a sick spec rn

i guess its ok without it

[next edge]

but the pat his fucking shit

[oak sky]

i know

but like if you could 1 to 1 copy sub rn

and add a charge of dance

its a banger

[slim hamlet]

ah

Was about to say

[dark token]

Pls no adding dance charges

[next edge]

honestly

[gusty mirage]

tell me danse macabre isn't just hit combo

[next edge]

1dance

is way better

[dark token]

Only reason sub is bursty rn is because it's got 1 dance

[slim hamlet]

well

[next edge]

gamepaly wise

i liek 1 d

[slim hamlet]

almost but not rly

[next edge]

way more than 2

[dark token]

Way fucking better than the mini outlaw zoomer spec 2 dance was in SL

[next edge]

can't agree more

[dark token]

Esp with RC

[slim hamlet]

I dont understand why people want double SD sub

u have SD every 20 sec anyway

[oak sky]

the thing i like about double dance is that everything lines up nicely

[next edge]

23-24 sec

[oak sky]

personally

im not gonna say less burst would be more fun or being a cdr machine would be more fun or anything like that

[shut owl]

my sadness with double dance is that you spend 4 talent points to get find weakness when you've already got it passively

[royal lantern]

man idk, it just feeils so weird with assa rn

[slim hamlet]

Cant wait until the day we all just reroll surv hunter as the forbidden texts foreshadowed

[royal lantern]

still the old "lmao cant do raid st and atleast decent raid aoe at the same time xd" problem when there are litearlly only 2 or 3specs in the game that have that left, and 1gets HEAVY aoe buffs cus of it in 3days

[oak sky]

yeah thats why its unplayable

[oak sky]

dont check terros logs

[royal lantern]

and still the slowest multidot class that also has the lowest payoff for multidotting

[slim hamlet]

yea they gaming

[dim slate]

Anyone know any sin rogue YouTubers? I literally cannot find any lol

[peak basin]

shadeknox for pvp

[slim hamlet]

they dont exist

[royal lantern]

PvP lmao

[shut owl]

seli does twitch

[slim hamlet]

There is a few, but mainly just raid kills and m+ runs

Yea Seli is enjoyable

Seliathan is full name

[ember relic]

Do you guys let ensan run off before dm?

[shut owl]

no

exsang, then dm, and then just sit for the .2seconds on a gcd if you need to reapply

[ember relic]

Just do it first , okay.

[shut owl]

yeah

faster dots = more damage when they are doubled so theres not a reason to exsang but not dm

[ember relic]

Ty

[strange python]

I don't mind this niche, but if we're going to be given this niche, we should be the obvious best choice in ST

It is stupid that specs can do good AoE and compete with our ST

[restive spire]

how do you change your poisons on a sim

[slim hamlet]

why would u

sim just has the best option

[restive spire]

i run wound poison in sanguine week pugs sometimes

[royal lantern]

no

you dont

if you do, you are actually griefing

[restive spire]

i get what youre saying

but thats also like saying dont play ass in m+

[royal lantern]

no

[restive spire]

thats also griefing when you could play sub or outlaw

[royal lantern]

using wound in pve is just straight up trolling

like wtf

you play around sanguine by:

1, dont have criplling poison when your tank doesn need to kite

2, dont stun adds inside sanguine puddles

3, have a tank with 3braincells

[restive spire]

i dont think it matters too much when im doing one weekly 15 on alts for a piece in the vault

[royal lantern]

full toxic mode but

yeha, better stay in weekly15

[restive spire]

i was just asking a question lol

[royal drift]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[turbid harbor]

You can run wound for sanguine when playing the other 2 specs, but deadly and amp are way too good

[kind talon]

Wound poison is good for the other specs

You lose way too much as sin

Deadly and amp poison are just

Juicer

[dark arrow]

sorry took the dog for a walk. I know sub and outlaw are really close. Kind of been thinking about trying sub again because of it but not sure if I wanna try a new spec while trying to push high keys at the same time, which is what i've been hard focusing on the two weeks (just getting to 18 and 19's timed). I thought Sin was far enough behind that you either needed another dps to make up for the AOE damage gap or essentially had to be a god tier sin player to do what just a strong outlaw/sub could do.

[dark token]

Sod

Arguably even closer

Sin is a tad weaker compared to other two imo but not by much. That's mostly due to fight design

[oblique jackal]

Sin needs Buffs in aoe

[minor gate]

Alright guys

Mage tower

[oblique jackal]

Ooof

[minor gate]

what builds are people using

i want that book

[oblique jackal]

I want the mic

Mog

[minor gate]

that as well

[royal lantern]

i want a hug

[balmy condor]

Ask again in 2 weeks

There are no mage tower builds

Because it’s legit never been up after the talent rework

[balmy condor]

Idk what you were expecting

[royal lantern]

you will skill CttC

and DM

thank me later

[minor gate]

i wasnt really looking for an official one more like peoples make shift builds

[balmy condor]

Well……

[kind talon]

and you will take

a lot of dr

[royal lantern]

no

stop

[kind talon]

and healing

!

leeching poison!

[balmy condor]

How would they do that

[royal lantern]

no bad "removing CttC" thoughts whisp

[minor gate]

like people who don't want to wait (like me) saying im going to use this build

i only have this week off from uni so i want to put in like a day

[slow marsh]

just copy paste one of the builds from faqs then idk

[kind talon]

which one is sin

mage tower

its the 3 homies right

[minor gate]

ye

[slow marsh]

yeah

prolly way easier with new bleed talents

since it's just maintaining bleeds and cc

[balmy condor]

Yeah but no one has done mage tower since talent rework

I’m asking you how people would just pull builds out of their ass

[slow marsh]

to be fair i pull stuff out of my ass all the time 🧌

[sour hinge]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[minor gate]

i call to the theory crafters

https://tenor.com/view/chad-monke-gif-20835999

[balmy condor]

We haven’t done mage tower either

Idk

[slow marsh]

everyone did it in sl

[balmy condor]

Little bit of critical thinking

Goes a long way

[minor gate]

the fact that people said it was some what ease and i just lost to the enrage probably means im missing to valuable sin tech

in sl

[vapid sierra]

i kinda forgot, for m+ dtb for more st and kb+ic for aoe right?

[slow marsh]

yeah

its called maintaining rupture

[vapid sierra]

!whyspir

!whispyr

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[minor gate]

i think my issue was probably keeping it on jarl

[kind talon]

is there a caster that iron wire would be juiced for

in mage tower

i dont remember i did it so long ago

[minor gate]

silence didnt work

[vapid sierra]

what is a chain pull?

for the dtb opener

it says hold for a chain pull

or pandemic

[slow marsh]

a lot of people just didn't evasion tank jarl into a full kidney and that's like 15s of dps they miss out on every other bladestorm iirc

[kind talon]

kidney does work right

BMQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAISikkEClEAAAAAAAJAgAAAAAAAIJJp4AlkQSSSKJJiAQSiE

here u can try that

@minor gate

[balmy condor]

When a tank pulls the next pack before the current pack is done

[kind talon]

elusiveness is probably great for overlaps otherwise just use cheat

[vapid sierra]

ah, that way you can have garrote up on 6 targets instead of 3?

[kind talon]

if u dont want to think about it

[vapid sierra]

you always maintain garrote/rupture on 3 targets right?

[kind talon]

yes

[vapid sierra]

shit thats gonna be hard to track

[balmy condor]

You track it on nameplates

And it’s more of a “if you don’t have energy, throw out another bleed”

And not a “I need exactly 6 bleeds all the time or else I die”

[vapid sierra]

ouf, and im assuming i click instead of tab?

[minor gate]

https://tenor.com/view/ok-all-nice-gif-22927671

[kind talon]

clicking is more accurate yes

just make sure you enable stacking nameplates

and not overlapping

[balmy condor]

I don’t Click im gonna be honest

I cant be fucked

[kind talon]

clicking is good if you have a prio target

[strange python]

This is what it looks like inside varas' brain when you try to explain why execute damage is valuable even if the fight isn't on a timer.

[kind talon]

but otherwise tab targetting is fine

[minor gate]

i macro'd click for bleeds

[vapid sierra]

wait what

wdym

macroed?

[kind talon]

he probably has mouseover macros

[vapid sierra]

ah

[kind talon]

hm

[balmy condor]

I mean

Mans got a point

[next lion]

i wanna get deathmark tattooed on me

is that impulsive 😎

it would look sick

[oak sky]

https://tenor.com/view/chatting-bean-twitch-gif-22634143

[next lion]

https://tenor.com/view/chatting-bean-twitch-gif-22634143

maybe i get the chatting bean tattooed aswell

fuck it

[oak sky]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/752673749555216464.webp?size=128&quality=lossless

[kind talon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/960635581845622824.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

is that lew

what happened to your red name lew

[oak sky]

rip patreon lew

[next lion]

i lost my old account and then i stopped paying for patreon : (

[peak basin]

Is sin rogue in 10.0.5 rly bad? Read chat earlier today and ppl seem to give dooming vibes.

[balmy condor]

they're dooming because it's not better

not because it's worse

[oak sky]

its different, it fixes some things but creates other problems by fixing those

[balmy condor]

the biggest complaint is "I wanted to play kingsbane now I can't play kingsbane"

and then like

a bunch of silly arguments that don't matter

[oak sky]

ye

[peak basin]

I see, kk. I wasn't sure if it was so bad that ppl were gonna be switching specs. Sounds minor in reality.

[balmy condor]

in practice it will probably be less than minor

more like completely irrelevant

the changes don't even give us 0.5%

the best single target dtb build now is nearly identical to the best single target dtb next week, except you get 2/2 dashing and move a point to zoldyck cause where else you gonna put it

[peak basin]

Makes sense. Thx for giving me an idea of what it will actually be like.

I rly like sin now and dont even play kingsbane so i guess pretty much no change

[balmy condor]

yap

you get to play DTB/IC though

that's cool

[kind talon]

is that 2/3 or 3/3 zold

next week

3/3 zold next week holy coooooooooow

TRUE EXECUTE spec

[peak basin]

No ambush anymore tho right, if we choose that route

[balmy condor]

2/3

[balmy condor]

correct

[kind talon]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[peak basin]

Will we have enough to take serrated bone strike for DTB/IC? Kinda want another filler alternative to ambush. Or will there not be enough points.

[oak sky]

well for aoe you dont ambush or mutilate anyway

[spice surge]

The damage reduction from iron wire, it doesnt work on dungeon bosses right?

Like you cant vanish for 15% dr during their big aoe? or does it work?

[kind talon]

they need to be silenced

afaik u cant silence the bosses

[spice surge]

Ah

Ye thats what i thought

[balmy condor]

if you drop shrouded for it, sure

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[bitter aurora]

!whysper

!whisper

[gusty mirage]

lol

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[gusty mirage]

there ya go friend

[static glacier]

anyone simmed lining up shiv + tea vs on cd shiv and tea when low energy (sub 70)?

[strange python]

When will we get !oxi

[strange python]

Shiv on CD is always the right option unless you run kingsbane

And there's a small optimization to forcefully make yourself low on energy before shiv to tea with it

[gusty mirage]

I don't like you guys enough to put in a fraction of the effort whispyr does

I do try to make sure the podcast gets a quirky name, and gets uploaded to youtube/spotify/itunes within a decent turnaround

I also redesigned the website ig

[strange python]

I just want a "Oxi doesn't care about making this command useful" command

[static glacier]

I mean shiv during no energy can't be correct

what changed, for several past expacs we tried to have energy before shiving

[strange python]

Well you shouldn't be going into shiv with no energy yeah

[shut owl]

How many envenoms are you realistically gonna get in a shiv window anyways?

Counterpoint to holding shiv, maybe not spam mut to 0 energy when shiv is almost ready

[raw raft]

2 most likely

maybe 3

[static glacier]

honestly i'm not even thinking about env numbers anymore

since it's mainly reliant on crit, it's the poison procs from extra hits with mut that Im considering

[frozen iris]

Glacial fury for grimtotem or would tepid or elemental chaos be better?

[bitter jolt]

does crimson tempest dot stack?

and at what target count should it be the primary spender over envenom?

[shut owl]

no.
around 4-5 targets?

[balmy condor]

sims pool to prevent this

it's like 0.8-1%

[shut owl]

neat

[tacit otter]

is my droptimizer bugged? or am i just dumb?
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9yL9Sqq3aEsD5opSkhNNdz

[shut owl]

if 220k is the target dslice I'm absolute dogwater my gosh

[kind talon]

its bugged

[bitter jolt]

so at 3 targets, the CT dot is not worth keeping it up?

or is it always worth keeping the ct dot up

[normal olive]

lmao

i love the boots that give +182% dmg

[balmy condor]

that's a @fleet anchor ping and a half lmao

[shut owl]

HUGE boots

[balmy condor]

I have no explanation

[normal olive]

where do i get them someone explain

[static glacier]

they're gucci boots, you wouldn't understand whispyr

[shut owl]

those boots make gucci look like walmart brand

[static glacier]

those boots brought back 3x echoing blades with a +200% dmg buff

[shut owl]

secret 6p tier set bonus clearly

they are listed as catalyst

wait, why are they catalyst

[kind talon]

its a bug

with catalyst gear rn

[bitter jolt]

in st, are you supposed to use all sbs charges on boss?

i.e does it stack?

[shut owl]

doesn't stack, but what else would you do with them?

[bitter jolt]

so you do use all charges on the boss?

so the instant dmg is worth the gcd?

[balmy condor]

yes

[shut owl]

yeah, they are a cheap builder, and do more damage than mut

[bitter jolt]

k

at what target count is it no longer worth keeping CT dot up?

[kind talon]

1

[bitter jolt]

kk

[kind talon]

if

u dont take it

iirc its good with dm

idk about sin keys tho

Always Maintain Rupture, Garrote, Slice and Dice, (and Crimson Tempest on 2+ targets when talented)

here u go from faq

[shut owl]

CT is not affected by deathmark last I checked

[gusty mirage]

you fr want those boots

142k dps?

SHEESH

[kind talon]

W boots

me next week when catalyst drops

[fleet anchor]

lol

[kind talon]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1057398680380002384/1066909972534939688/LOG_IN.gif

[fleet anchor]

I assume it's some ilevel/bonus ID craziness but no idea

[gusty mirage]

I sense something's a bit off with the catalyst implementation

[shut owl]

there's... some gains to be had by using CT outside of shiv/kb/dm windows in ST

its weird

[tacit otter]

wdym only 17k from 421 chest, its normal right

[shut owl]

forget the chest, its the 100k boots

[tacit otter]

all are fucked, but why the boots tho

[shut owl]

beats me lol, but I'm ready for my catalyst-created 6p from boots

theres no notes anywhere but the droptimized simmed it therefore I should sell the house for some SBG boots to catalyze apparently

[kind talon]

yes

[gusty mirage]

idk man but I need those boots

like asap

[fleet anchor]

ilevel: 760, stats: { 5735 Armor, +13189 Sta, +5613 Vers, +2968 Mastery, +8792 AgiInt }

I, too, would take the ilevvel 760 boots

[kind talon]

nice

[fleet anchor]

🤣

[shut owl]

roflmao

[fleet anchor]

I'll let Seri know there's some oddities with the bonus IDs haha

[balmy condor]

3000 mastery? Okay but how does this affect our gearing, since that hits the DR, is puzzle box still bis?

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

what are you doing here

don't you have boots to craft

chop chop

[shut owl]

oh shit, gonna make haste wayyyy more valuable

[brazen zodiac]

oh fuck ur actually right

haha is ur friend the monk

[balmy condor]

yeh my friend is the monke

[brazen zodiac]

tell him imomw rn sorry lost his chat

[balmy condor]

I have no clue who you're talking about

[brazen zodiac]

i got distracted cuz someone in my guild borrowed 2m gold from gbank then his sister came on and said he died then he gquit and transfered to zuljin

o

lol some monk waiting for me to craft slimy boots so i thought u were talking about them ahah

[gusty mirage]

enjoy brackenhide

every time someone asks me to craft that shit for them

I tell them np

go clear the dungeon and summon me

[brazen zodiac]

haha just save a lockout, its easy

still 20 minutes of lame walking but ez

[gusty mirage]

I'm not smart enough for that

[brazen zodiac]

[gusty mirage]

I took 10mg of melatonin

is hat man coming to visit tonight?

[brazen zodiac]

no but i am

[gusty mirage]

bro?

[brazen zodiac]

?

ill show you how to really craft decay gear

[gusty mirage]

oh I don't want to craft anything for anyone

[earnest remnant]

i woke up 20 min before raid today 🙂

[gusty mirage]

but if a guildie I actually like asks

I do it

[gusty mirage]

I have a hearing at 9am

[brazen zodiac]

hearing?

[frigid pilot]

So is sun better or worse for st after patch?

[earnest remnant]

i have meeting at 1:30

[gusty mirage]

yea someone was stupid enough to hire me as their lawyer

[earnest remnant]

and i have to stay awake for that

[gusty mirage]

about the same

[brazen zodiac]

ur a lawyer? wwtf

[gusty mirage]

slightly less annoying in m+

[frigid pilot]

Interesting

[earnest remnant]

thats a mood honestly dont know why people would hire me either

im not smart

[gusty mirage]

idk I spoke to a client and he said I was one of the smartest people he's ever met

I was concerned for him

[earnest remnant]

like "damn u must know alot of daft people then"

[gusty mirage]

[brazen zodiac]

so a lawyer and a funeral director get together to craft and...

[frigid pilot]

Wonder if arms gonna be giga broken

[earnest remnant]

my arm is pretty broken

got it in a cast and shit

[gusty mirage]

go enjoy your free healthcare

[earnest remnant]

i am, thank you very much

[kind talon]

:3

[gusty mirage]

uh idk if it'll be broken, but it'll be pretty damn good

[gusty mirage]

wanna adopt me

[kind talon]

Arms and fury will both be juicers

Next week

[earnest remnant]

cant even take care of myself, how am i supposed to take care of you

[gusty mirage]

that's the best part

you don't have to

get the government stipend for accepting a refugee from america

and then let me become homeless

[kind talon]

W

[gusty mirage]

I'd probably live better homeless in europe than I would here

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[earnest remnant]

its extremely hard to be homeless in Denmark

you have to try very hard

[gusty mirage]

oh

well count me out

you lost me at "try"

very hard was just unnecessary

[kind talon]

Do they just give you a house

Or what

[earnest remnant]

housing yeh

[kind talon]

W WWWWW

I’m moving there

[brazen zodiac]

guess im moving

shittt les move in together

i bake fine brownies

[kind talon]

Can I use one of your fridges @earnest remnant

[earnest remnant]

we have people that are just living off of the government for like 20+ year

get paid to do nothing

[elfin valley]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[frozen iris]

How do i see how many combo points ive wasted in logs?

!logs

[zinc frost]

There’s a resource tab which has combo points option in wcl

[frozen iris]

Thank you

[balmy condor]

How do I see how much of my life I’ve wasted

[zinc frost]

Easy just type /played

[pallid bough]

/played

[strange python]

Subtract your birth year from current year

[gusty mirage]

look at your playlist

and calculate how many songs

it took you to get your spreadsheet ddone

[balmy condor]

Book of shadows is haunting me

I told quake I’d get to the dungeons soon

But uh

10.0.5 updates first

[balmy condor]

Also this doesn’t work for me @zinc frost. I spend way more time out of the game simming and guide writing and sitting in discord than I do in game

[zinc frost]

And then I watch those sim streams

[thorny pond]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png Lariat can proc ANY gem you have equipped, in any slot.

[strange python]

Bruh 8 hour maintenance wtf

[winter raft]

[spice spire]

Buddy I haven’t touched raid’s at all

[balmy condor]

Buddy how bout some self care

Love yourself

[spice spire]

Wish you’d love me instead

[kind talon]

[kind talon]

[balmy condor]

Yeah sorry it’s not you, it’s me. I’m just trying to focus on my career and stuff ya know. Focus on myself. Don’t have the bandwidth right now

But you’re a really sweet guy!

You deserve better

[spice spire]

I’d say, I’d smash your pops but I’m too old

[oak sky]

theres a lot of shit cloak works on

[spice spire]

That’s real

[oak sky]

and feint works on some shit but not some other shit

[brazen zodiac]

[pure mauve]

After changes is assa good for m+?

[normal olive]

did you know that evasion works for some things too?

[brazen zodiac]

rupture!!

[zinc frost]

Will probably remain at the same level it already is

[kind talon]

u can play dtb carnage now

which will be interesting

[zinc frost]

[frozen iris]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[stable moss]

Do you always want to envelop on your echo points?

Envenom

[oak sky]

um it doesnt matter what finisher you use on the animacharged combo points

[stable moss]

Okay just making sure trying to do as much damage as possible and figuring out little tricks and what not

[round swift]

Farming court of stars ring… is it worth it? And how many runs did it take y’all to get it.

Cause I’ve ran that place 21 times now and haven’t even seen it drop.

[flint ridge]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[royal lantern]

CoS ring+eranog ring is the best setup for assa, idk for the other Specs

and have a healer that can trade the ring in the group, healers ALWAYS drop it

[normal olive]

ran 3 CoS with a full trade group just for me

imagine getting a ring :)

[royal lantern]

3

[normal olive]

well this week

i gave up after 30

[royal lantern]

just do 30more runs and then drop it

[normal olive]

[royal lantern]

just to have a 421 cos ring+socket in the next vault

[normal olive]

yeah sure

[flint ridge]

I saw the top mythic rasz parse was kb build who switched exsanguinate to 1 pt of improved poisons for rasz. Do u guys think that's applicable to mortals?

[balmy condor]

yep

I suggested it to all the assa rogues in the race and they didn't do it

I'm not salty about that

[flint ridge]

so how do open on that build whispyr? and is it only rasz good since it maximizes kingsbane damage for three shields?

[royal lantern]

wait, you are STILL mortal in 2023?

[balmy condor]

you just gar snd er rup sbs and then dm and go

and yeh it's just raz

[normal olive]

where do we go

[flint ridge]

thanks man!

[flint ridge]

wow i appreciate this infographic that will go to my saved images of opener january 23 2023.jpg lmao. i had so many at this pt

[balmy condor]

[normal olive]

the paint god lmao

[balmy condor]

yeah

have someone make really nice visuals for the faq

and then there's 6-7 viable assa builds

and I can't support all of them in the faq

so then I make an absolute fool of myself

and ms paint over the artwork

[normal olive]

nah paint is the one true tool for this shit

[royal lantern]

i mean, can cut some in 2days

[flint ridge]

we appreciate the lord's work for us mortals who can't think openers vis-a-vis a talent change hahaha

[normal olive]

who needs openers anyway

was doing the kb opener for a few bit while playing dtb

oh Whispyr any tips for mythic spider? hope we kill terros after our 0.4% wipe on saturday

[slim hamlet]

Beautiful work

[slow marsh]

Hey guys new rouge here. Was wondering if assassination will be viable for 10.0.5 or if I should just play subtlety because my guild leader said that he won't carry an assassination rouge in m+ and also I saw that subtlety has a new monk build that makes it do a lot of AoE damage and I just like seeing big numbers on my details so if assassination can do that in 10.0.5 with the new talent or not

[dusk onyx]

can some rogue god help me with my mythic terros kill log? i made some fance grey log and im really sad now

[slim hamlet]

Would rasz be something like this next week?

[normal olive]

nah gotta go IC + AP for that sweet add pad on second platform

[slim hamlet]

Wait am I banned from sending pictures

Can't send a build

[normal olive]

L

[grim jay]

You did send it 2 times

[grim jay]

Its just the same as now. What exactly does your guildlead have to do with m+ ?

[slow marsh]

Would rasz be something like this next week?

[lament warren]

i don’t think you play triple zoldyck over ss

maybe you do

can sim

[eager sorrel]

Is kings bane not still DoA? Or we looking to pad into every shield?

[lament warren]

shields damage isn’t pad

but outside of that yeah is dead

[grim jay]

Shields arent pad if you need to deal with them

[slow marsh]

I'm trolling aurhora but yeah I'm not sure tbh

[lament warren]

i’ve pugged heroic raszageth this week and let me tell you those shields are not pad

[slim hamlet]

wat

I can see now

It wasnt there before

[slow marsh]

The best kb build is gonna be roughly 5% less overall in st so it's hard to say if it'll be worth the drop off just to have a CD for the shields

Generally it's not

And you just go for the higher overall dps build

[grim jay]

Maybe Kb is the higher overall dps build bcs its not a patchwerk fight

[slim hamlet]

Saw a lot of gamers saying KB was still go to on bird

[slow marsh]

Well then there you go

[slim hamlet]

Yeah just didnt know if ss was worth with no exsang and stuff

[lament warren]

don’t know

lol

would have to sim

[slim hamlet]

I remember the first week we did a DTB with no SS+exsang build

playing without SS is misery tho

[royal lantern]

tell you RL to suck a big one, assa still outperforms MANY specs in m+

source, did all keys in 20-21 in fking PUGS as assa only

[grim jay]

Yay new tierlist in wowhead news. Tierlistgamers inc

[slow marsh]

Gross

[slim hamlet]

REALLY

WHERE

I MUST HAVE IT

[normal olive]

are we the best spec ever now?

[royal lantern]

wowhead, what else

[slim hamlet]

oh u scammed me

[royal lantern]

new tierlists, we can form opinions now

[slim hamlet]

This is old and not even a tierlist

what a scam

[grim jay]

Did some 19s-20s for fun as sin, if you are good at it you definitely can top your keys

[grim jay]

Its updated frequently and if you click on the links a tierlist appears

[normal olive]

like 95% of keys i top dps its kinda sad

[grim jay]

So basically its New on every update

[slim hamlet]

not if your team is also good

[grim jay]

Well it aint in pugs

[slim hamlet]

Luckily I pug so that aint a problem

[grim jay]

Which is what most people do 😁

[slim hamlet]

Exactly

My discord is actually going ham right now

[royal lantern]

hi

[slim hamlet]

I send my message and then suddenly 5 other messages appear 2 minutes late and mine is invisible for 2 mins

[grim jay]

On phone?

[slim hamlet]

nah

Magic

[grim jay]

Hit 70 on my mage yesterday so people will be like "WOAH what a big brain chad, can play rogue and arcane mage well"

[grim jay]

What school of magic do you use for discord tho ?

[slim hamlet]

AP on Sennarth for padding?

[grim jay]

Maybe dont use fire, that might be the reason why your dc is fried

[slim hamlet]

Shadow + Arcane

[lament warren]

ap is probably not good on sennarth

even to pad

[slim hamlet]

Didnt ask if it was good

Asked if I can pad

🙂

[lament warren]

not effectively

[slim hamlet]

Feel like it dies too fast to pad on

Sad

[royal lantern]

ddosd your teammates

[runic hinge]

Ic+ap to pad on dathea?

[grim jay]

Bring forth the idea of boosting M bosses so there are less people that deal dmg

[slim hamlet]

So we still holding on for small buff to AP?

or have we let it go

[royal lantern]

sure grandpa, lets go back to bed

[grim jay]

They should redesign and not buff

[slim hamlet]

[slim hamlet]

Yeah but lets be honest, probably not a good chance of that 1 day before reset

[royal lantern]

2

[north basin]

This reset we will have 1 button less?

[slim hamlet]

idk it could be interesting, just bit wack for a capstone

[slim hamlet]

3

oh god discord again

[grim jay]

It shouldnt be small aoe

It should be cleave

[royal lantern]

it should be another talent

[slim hamlet]

Thought u just randomly said 2

[grim jay]

And better on ST than random small nodes

[royal lantern]

[topaz bluff]

Design change same time Ex gets it's design change

[slim hamlet]

Wait

Besides KB what do we lose?

[grim jay]

I mean, if AP was a good bit stronger and 3 targets instead of 5, it would be kinda nice

[grim jay]

Gotta embrace exs already

[royal lantern]

slowly a reason to play assa cus everyone gets giga buffs, and we still do 0aoe in raids 🙂

[grim jay]

Atleast we are the best ST.... oh wait

[keen spruce]

just lets you skip annoying cleave roles

[grim jay]

Forgot UH and BM

[keen spruce]

"nah fam i'm not goin up to platforms on dathea, imma just stay down here and bang this boss"

"nah i'm not kicking adds on diurna, imma just sit on these broodmother cheeks"

[royal lantern]

that would be a good argument if we would then absolutely demolish in pure st, so that its 100% worth it

[slim hamlet]

🙂

[royal lantern]

but then we have Specs in the SAME CLASS that do more ST and also great aoe/cleave

🙂

[keen spruce]

I don't think sub or outlaw are doin more ST than assas in like a 7 minute boss fight

not in real life at least

[slim hamlet]

Reason I chose sin as main was because I like to do big boss dam

🙂

[slim hamlet]

look at terros logs

I know killtimes can differ it a bit but man

[lament warren]

terros is fine

outlaw has higher variance so it peaks higher so its logs are higher

but the fact that all 3 are competitive st is kinda based

it’s just that sin got nerfed for no reason

[slim hamlet]

Outlaw is actually lower now

interesting

[agile geode]

For a good spec change and a good viability in cleave/aoe i think we must wait 10.1 and hope that we'll get the exanguinate rework

[slim hamlet]

Last week it was higher

[royal lantern]

exsang works in aoe now

[keen spruce]

brother that's 500 sub parses

[royal lantern]

[slim hamlet]

But it being that close while our AOE/Cleave = 0 compared

[slim hamlet]

so?

[agile geode]

wut?

[grim jay]

Its bad balance on one end or the other

[grim jay]

You can still reroll UH if that was your reason

[keen spruce]

numbers are just juiced by high rolling outlaws and fast kill times / giga geared sub

[slim hamlet]

Nah

[royal lantern]

as a "exsang rework and aoe fix" in 10.1