assassination

[balmy condor]

assassination will have moments of downtime

that's how the spec functions

but even with the slowest builds, you should still be in the 50apm range

[desert ether]

hell my APM is lower I think then 50

[balmy condor]

what ilvl are you

[teal bloom]

What talents are you using? I recommend looking at #assassination-faq if you aren't sure what you should play

Dtb gets a bit more energy than kingsbane but faster isn't always more damage

[balmy condor]

but if you're like 390 or 400 at this point, it should be pretty fluid

[timber meadow]

does this mean, for the most part I'm just gonna lose 4-5k or did dtb gain some dps as a result of all this

[limber lion]

I don't understand the question

DTB is already on par if not better than Kingsbane

In Mythic+ IC/DTB is vastly superior to IC/KB

[timber meadow]

just talkin st

my kignsbane is singiifcantly ahead of dtb

[limber lion]

Link sim

I'm guessing you don't have any tier pieces

[timber meadow]

i guess not signiciantly from a % standpoint but like 2-3k so i was exaggerating in my head the diff

[limber lion]

But 5k doesn't sound realistic

Anyways, link the sim

[timber meadow]

okay sec

[main blaze]

hushed whispers as everyone waits for the sim

[forest oasis]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[main blaze]

Ugh triz ruined it

[timber meadow]

okay yeah not thatt significant but still like 1500 dps

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vZ6PFKTDJYAe5mnukDUXvQ

but yeah i was exaggerating so for my char its a tad bit of a nerf but nothin crazy by any means

[balmy condor]

Is the equipped a poison dtb?

[timber meadow]

yeah

[balmy condor]

Aight give me a second

[old jewel]

!logs

[limber lion]

My guy...

We don't play Poison DTB.

[timber meadow]

is there a diff dtb build that people are using?

[limber lion]

That's for 2p

Yes

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3tor3MxQMDggT9PnK3efX5

[timber meadow]

lmao yeah that wast he last time i played it

[limber lion]

Here's the sim

[timber meadow]

swapped over to kingsbane soon as i got 4pc and puzzle box and never really looked back

enjoyed the playstyle ig

[limber lion]

I can almost guarantee you once it finishes either DTB + Exsang will be the top pick or Kingsbane + Exsang, with DTB being less than 100 dps behind

[timber meadow]

well that is lovely news

apologies

[balmy condor]

Painge cev already beat me to the sim

[limber lion]

Had your build-string copied and ready to go

[proper tapir]

Wait so a conversation earlier confused me, are we pooling for envenoms now? Or just sending it?

[balmy condor]

Pooling will always be better just by default

Because that’s the entire concept

But the difference is minimal

[timber meadow]

yeah so the two builds are basically identical

[limber lion]

Where's your third crafted item?

[timber meadow]

my outlaw mh

[limber lion]

What's the second embellishment?

Alright

[timber meadow]

im getting cowl next week for ring

[proper tapir]

Got it, pool for parses. Thanks, bro babe!

[balmy condor]

Np

[timber meadow]

ring will be ~2500 more dps which will be very nice

well ring + cowl

[limber lion]

Yeah gotta get that first though

I've been trying for 3 weeks now

Haven't seen a single one drop

On any difficulty

[timber meadow]

oof so uh I massively fucked up and my dps upgrade numbers didn't go through this weekend to our RL so it went to a warlock for a 1400 dps upgrade

rl whispered and said I was next after i was like "yo there's no shot its better for warlock than me" and then I realized my fuckup lol

and we dropped 2 of em so prob won't see it for another month lol

[neon burrow]

Didn't see it in the faq but maybe I missed it.
With does deathmark double Kingsbane since it's a lethal poison? I know it did on beta.

[limber lion]

It has never done that.

Not even in the beta.

Deathmark essentially doubles Kingsbane value because you get twice the amount of poison procs already

But it does not duplicate Kingsbane itself.

[neon burrow]

Ah! Right. I remember in one beta phase it did. Oh well.
So you want to cast DM > shiv > KB

[oak sky]

dm duplicates weapon poisons

thats why it doesnt

kingsbane is not a weapon poison

[neon burrow]

It is a lethal poison according to the tool tip. That's why I was confused.

[limber lion]

It didn't, it literally never has.

You want to do Shiv - Envenom - Kingsbane, or Envenom - Kingsbane - Shiv

Order doesn't matter, as long as you have Envenom buff when you slap Kingsbane

[neon burrow]

I thought since the application of KB is a big dmg it was better to do Shiv first and then keep it up for the duration of the KB debuff.

[balmy condor]

There’s a section talking about why we do the order we do

[brazen zodiac]

[wide briar]

hello, any video guides on assassination? would like to try it, been playing outlaw / sub for most of dragonflight.

[balmy condor]

No

Video guides are famously inaccurate and quickly outdated

Our theorycrafting would essentially require a new guide video every other week

That’s not sustainable

[wide briar]

oh okay, i learn faster when watching plus assassination seems to have a lot more things to track and do than the 2 other specs, i'm dumb like that lol time to read I guess. thanks!

[gusty mirage]

you're not dumb

@marble hemlock started streaming again and is super helpful and a wonderful human being

[magic vine]

i find that checking the opener/rotation thing in the faq, hitting up the training dummy a few times, and then going out to one of the open world elite areas and fighting 1 enemy at a time helps me figure out what i'm doing and what i'm messing up

[bleak vector]

is there a breakpoint that we would be wanting haste more then crit and mastery?

[marble hemlock]

[wide briar]

does this show that assassination is definitely more complex than the 2 other specs? i can at least pull up fairly accurate guides for outlaw and sub. Just a question and don't mean it in a bad way, want to try sin later on heroic raszageth and mythic terros prog.

[magic vine]

eh i think they're complicated in different ways

[marble hemlock]

just means the other specs have dedicated nutjobs that wanna do a videoguide every few weeks instead of sitting on discord with the cool people of #assassination to chat about them instead

[magic vine]

like sin has a bunch of optimization around cooldowns and bleeds, while sub has a lot around what exactly you do in your dance window, and i dunno about combat

[marble hemlock]

in all seriousness though, its definitely possible to make a decent videoguide. but between having to research/use existing information, writing a script, recording footage and the video itself, editing etc.... its just a lot of work, for tangible benefits. but if anyone wants to do that, then more power to them.

[magic vine]

and every specs got a bunch of stuff thats all small improvements that add up

[lavish geyser]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[magic vine]

also its harder to maintain video guides, or make sure people see/find update info about them

[strange python]

Not for this reason, but sin is definitely more complex than the other two specs atm

[quick ivy]

Hey guys, is there any easy way to check wasted combo points on a log?

[grim tangle]

yes

[wind condor]

Lets say all bleeds are up, you’re at max combo points and shiv off cd, is it better to shiv and waste the CD, to get that extra envenom within the window?

CB* not CD

[strange python]

It used to be. Idk if it still is

[hardy dagger]

Quick qustion, How does one sim execute?

[balmy condor]

there's a fight type called execute patchwerk

[hardy dagger]

oh right! tyvm

[weak isle]

sorry to bother, do u know if we can change the execute % in the sim? or is that a custom code u have to add?

[balmy condor]

that's custom code, but I don't see why it would be important

if it starts at 10% or 20% or 30%, the execute stays the same

[weak isle]

ah ic ic, thought it couldve had different effect cus of our execute being on higher hp%

didnt know it would be the same

[balmy condor]

well I mean

you're simming execute

you do the same amount at 35% that you do at 5%

so does it really matter?

[oblique tangle]

Y'all I just ran my alt through the entirety of VoI and got literally 0 drops.

I'm 2 characters deep full clearing the raid and getting no loot does blizzard just fucking hate me?

[balmy condor]

like if you sim 3 min execute starting at 5%, it would take 3 minutes to go from 5% to 0%

if you sim 3 min execute starting at 35%, it would take 3 minutes to go from 35% to 0%

but in both cases you're in execute the entire time

[weak isle]

ye ur right, lmfao. my brain is bit fried mb! EU times

[strange python]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[dark arrow]

anyone willing to take a look at a log for me? i'm trying assassination for the first since really since SL S2. I used to parse in the 80's np in basically every fight back then. Just did Terros on a guild alt run (using my main to try assassination) and I parsed 32 but for ilvl a 0.... like so very very bad lol. I thought I had a understanding of how sin plays in DF but apperantly not at all.

[shut owl]

huzzah; finally hit 2k for ksm :>

[dark arrow]

I know my stats are not optimized at all cuz i'm built for outlaw (stacking crit/vers) but at ilvl 402 I think I should be able to pull more then 37.7k

[hollow river]

try typing !log and then linking your log

[dark arrow]

!log https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Pr4gZaTMbfhxCLpA#fight=last&type=damage-done&source=19

[hollow river]

i'm sure someone will get to it when they have time

[dark arrow]

ty never used that function before. never had someone look at my logs

[hollow river]

np, it's somewhat new

[shut owl]

pugging is suffering lol

[lament warren]

is it worth to keep envenom uptime on council for 2p?

i know you spam ct

[hollow river]

envenom uptime usually isn't something we play around, more of a passive

[shut owl]

I do but my parses for council are all doo-doo

[lament warren]

how do u parse council bad

i dropped lethal dose and still got rank 8

[shut owl]

do worse than all the other sin rogues?

[lament warren]

i believe in u.

[shut owl]

I was the statistically worst rogue on terros day 1

[lament warren]

that's pretty impressive

[shut owl]

yeah

[lament warren]

yea but if you're ct spamming you don't get the envenom buff at all

[shut owl]

and then 2 weeks later I clocked in a purple, so improvement I guess

[lament warren]

so you effectively do not have 2pc

[shut owl]

and today I got my KSM through pugging and suffering lol

[lament warren]

proud of u

:>

[shut owl]

now if only I'd stop blacking out on random fights and letting bleeds drop

[spice spire]

I’m not proud

[lament warren]

[spice spire]

Why not week one

[lament warren]

oh ok

[spice spire]

[lament warren]

so i will assume

the answer is no

don't press envenom ever

or someone would have told me otherwise

[shut owl]

my guild is 7/8 H and can't consistently do 12's. thats why I didnt get KSM week 1

[spice spire]

It is not

[raw raft]

can't decide what to use my valor on both my rings are effectively same increase but don't know which one i'll be replacing with my eranog ring on tuesday

[limber lion]

You really don't

You just maintain it.

[lament warren]

whispyr told me you spam ct

conflicting opinions here

[limber lion]

On 4 targets?

[lament warren]

yes

[limber lion]

lol

[balmy condor]

yuh

council is CT spam city

[limber lion]

Well then in that case you maintain Envenom

and spam CT when you have Envenom up

[balmy condor]

nah

envenom for cttc is all the envenom you need

[limber lion]

sim uses Envenom quite a bit on 4t

don't see much ct spamming here

[lament warren]

yeah idk

i dont think it matters

u get free 99s

just for picking the sin spec

[limber lion]

Yeah because that's how parses work

Play a decent spec, insta get good parses

[lament warren]

i don't know if that's what you meant to say

but yeah

[limber lion]

That's literally what you said

[ebon notch]

[limber lion]

"pick sin, get 99"

[lament warren]

yeah

but generally

better specs are harder to parse on

[limber lion]

doesn't really work like that

[lament warren]

it does kinda work like that

[limber lion]

better specs are harder to parse on?

[lament warren]

for overall rank

yes

for parse% no

[ebon notch]

Are you trying to talk about sample sizes?

[limber lion]

for overall rank?

what does that mean

[limber lion]

I mean no shit it's easier to get top 10 if there's 12 people playing the spec instead of 900

[lament warren]

yeah

thats

literally what i said

[limber lion]

No, you talked about parsing

Parsing =/= ranks

[lament warren]

okay man

[ebon notch]

You need to revamp your usage of the English language my dude

[limber lion]

Yeh you're struggling a bit here buddy

[lament warren]

ok

[limber lion]

It's okay

[ebon notch]

You say things that literally require expanding upon cause half the thoughts are still in your head

[lament warren]

insane how we are literally agreeing and you still manage to be a dick about it

[balmy condor]

yeh, it's following the logic from shadowlands mostly. Part of the whole shitshow I've been doing with CT logic is finding the breakpoints for when to env vs ct. 4 target is a bit of a weird situation where it's kinda whatever, with higher than that being just a clear CT win, I think for council though there's enough movement and bosses standing like just barely apart from each other where poison bomb only hits 3/4 or 2/4 or you move the bosses from the flame patch and the poison bomb whiffs. For the minimal difference between the two in sims I think the inconsistency of poison bomb just ain't worth it

[ebon notch]

He was kinda just trying to understand what you meant

[limber lion]

I don't have Poison Bomb on this build at all though

I'm guessing there's no logic to check for poison bomb talent

[balmy condor]

yeh

[limber lion]

But yeh, still very aggressive use of Envenom even without it

[balmy condor]

but you take poison bomb on council right?

[limber lion]

Maybe a pb check could be nice

[lament warren]

i don't

[limber lion]

No

[balmy condor]

what

then why are you arguing for envenom?

then it's definitely not worth it

[ebon notch]

Are you not running dtb cev?

[balmy condor]

bruh

BRUH

[ebon notch]

Ooo

[balmy condor]

blindside on fucking council

aight you're trolling me

[limber lion]

True, it should be ttb

[balmy condor]

gtfo man

[lament warren]

love to press ambush

[balmy condor]

[limber lion]

I just slammed something random

but pb is not up for grabs

playing pb would be omega trolling

[balmy condor]

You drop zold for it

[limber lion]

yeh nah

[ebon notch]

Does this outsim dtb/pb?

[lament warren]

fuck knows man

i just click talents

never once simmed multi target sin

never will

allah will guide me

[limber lion]

But yeh, sim says press Envenom a lot so I do

Let's see if pb matters

[ebon notch]

Wait exsang? On council?

I'm lost

[limber lion]

Exsang bis

[ebon notch]

I'm cooked fam

@balmy condor did he jebait me or

I'm too tired

[balmy condor]

Okay well then if you don’t play PB and you’re playing zold you DEFINITELY spam ct over envenom

[limber lion]

Okay this is the actual build that I play on Council

[teal bloom]

I haven't simmed 4t in a few weeks but poison bomb one simmed lower than no pb

[limber lion]

Okay nice good

[nocturne current]

I'm just playing standard M+ build council.

[shut owl]

I ran outta loadouts so my best parse was just me running KB/IC M+ lol

[balmy condor]

zold = ct buff
env without pb = doggers
poison damage from fok = doggers

[oak sky]

Yeah thats what i simmed to too

[limber lion]

Ah I see what it is

[balmy condor]

think the 4 target build with pb was before zold buffs now that I think about it

[limber lion]

The sim checks for Deathmark

Deathmark up = spam envenom

[balmy condor]

yeh

[limber lion]

lol

let's remove that

[oak sky]

Wasnt ct spam only past 6t

[ebon notch]

Depends on talents no?

At least I thought that's what's going on

[limber lion]

Whispyr is the CT/Dslice god, he has the answers to anything CT related

[drifting cloud]

he wakes up in cold sweats from dslice nightmare sims

[oblique jackal]

I heard exsang is being replaced in 10.5?

[oak sky]

Probably 10.1

[oblique jackal]

RIP

[oak sky]

Definitely not 10.0.5, maybe could be 10.0.7 but not super likely

[teal bloom]

10.5? So never?

[nocturne current]

Replaced by Expose Armor.

[brazen zodiac]

[oak sky]

See

Someone said they would add cold blood before we had talent trees

And i thought there was no way

So im not gonna say anything about expose armor

Then maybe it wont happen

[ebon notch]

@oak sky did you like what you saw from bendiesham

[oak sky]

For sure

[limber lion]

@balmy condor sim just spams envenom when rup/gar/ct are up, help

[oak sky]

Whats the condition for ct spam in the sim

[teal bloom]

Envenom is just a fun button to press, can't blame the bot

[balmy condor]

I know man

[rotund crescent]

Hey im kinda new to WoW and assassin. Can someone kinda explain the Mythic+ Dragon Tempered Blades build starting with three Garrotes when coming out of stealth. Do those stack at all or does that mean to proc them on different targets or something else?

[limber lion]

How do I make it stop

I wanna see these ct spam gains

[nocturne current]

One garrote for each mob

[balmy condor]

link me the sim

[oak sky]

Garrote normally has a cd, no cd out of stealth for 3 seconds, so you want to get them out on as many mobs as you can

[limber lion]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/74Kgr4hGMitw86aEkB22b4

[balmy condor]

aight give me a sec

[limber lion]

I removed deathmark/shiv conditions from envenom but it still does it

[nocturne current]

[oak sky]

Feelycraft says maintain envenom buff at low target counts

[rotund crescent]

@nocturne current @oak sky ahh okay thank you! Thats kinda what i thought but i never could find an exact answer. literally noone out of my friends group plays rogue lol so again tyvm!

[limber lion]

wait what if I just delete the entire envenom line because we have a cttc line already in place

I deleted the line and it still does it

[quick ivy]

im trying to compare a guildies logs to a log of a similar time and even though he has high uptime he's just doing way less envenoms, and all his abilities just do way less damage

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/compare/mzC1jyGwR3faWctb/6p4rkQDYqjgaRxzL#type=damage-done&source=216,26&fight=0,18

anyone see anything obvious?

[shut owl]

I see about 10% mutilate cp waste?

[teal bloom]

17 ilevel lower mainhand

[limber lion]

Oh like the fact that one dude has 418/411 daggers and the other dude has 402/402 daggers?

Lol.

[shut owl]

oh

yeah

[potent oak]

fair ilvl difference, secondary stats aren't as good on the second rogue, weapon damage is significantly less

[quick ivy]

how does having higher ilvl daggers make you get like 50 more casts off in the same window?

[lethal mortar]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[potent oak]

In this case it could be the big difference in crit giving more cp?

[nocturne current]

50 casts of what?

[shut owl]

I dont see 50 casts lol

[potent oak]

yeah it's 20

[limber lion]

Whoever Stickyfingers is is wasting A LOT of combo points holy moly.

[shut owl]

I see 22 envenom difference...

[limber lion]

You do NOT mutilate at 5-6 combo points

[shut owl]

yeah, thats what I saw

[limber lion]

You do not Ambush at 5-6 combo points

[quick ivy]

15 mutilates, 22 envenoms, 12 ambushes

[limber lion]

You don't press Bone Spike at 5-6 combo points

You don't garrote at 6 combo points

[rose narwhal]

!sims

[prisma monolith]

Simulations:
Herodamage: https://www.herodamage.com/rogue/
Bloodmallet: https://bloodmallet.com/index.html

[limber lion]

You shouldn't shiv at 6 cp if you can avoid it

[rose narwhal]

!whyspr

[limber lion]

Like my man is building to full combo points all the time, stop it

We build to max-1

[rose narwhal]

!whyspyr

3am is too late for me lol

[limber lion]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[rose narwhal]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[limber lion]

@rose narwhal

there you go

[rose narwhal]

ty

[shut owl]

he just likes to see it maxed cev

[balmy condor]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gqJaURdhGDtoYsoKdUFB4D

I added some other things that loosen it up too much for context because the logic isn't really fleshed out fully, but you can see that sending CT with a lot of overlap, as well as opening up to spamming earlier (with less energy) ends up being pretty good. There's logic I had laying around somewhere that closes it up again with poison bomb, which basically just showed it as equal at the end of the day compared to the looser CT spam. Like I said, 4 target is a weird enigma where things are barely on the cusp of being better/worse, and the logic is terrible cause you have to account for CT vs Rup, CT vs Env, CT vs Env with Amp, CT vs Env with PB and TTK (for m+), CT vs Env with Amp and PB. It's a mess

it's like the convo we had about all the DTB builds

there's like

35 different things you could do

and they're all kinda equal

but because there's 35 different things

each one technically needs it own logic

and it gets super unwieldy

[drifting cloud]

if you press mutilate on 5cp what will the wasted row in logs say?

does it check for crits or just baseline overcap

[bleak eagle]

is spiteful storm simming right

[shut owl]

crit waste falls under seal fate

[drifting cloud]

that makes sense

[balmy condor]

yeh mut on 5 will net you 1 overcap on mut, and then any crit goes to seal fate

so seeing 3 overcap on mut for example in a log

is actually more than that

[limber lion]

Yeah for sure, that's why I wanted to sim without amp/dashing/pb/whatever to see just how far ct spamming could go, but even here it's using Envenom quite aggressively and the "ct spamming" is not really there.

But thanks, sick stuff, I could never do this shit

ct is a massive rabbit hole, you can keep it

[limber lion]

yes, it's bad

[nocturne current]

Damn, and I spent my entire Council fight just spamming CT like a madman.

[balmy condor]

[nocturne current]

I love the fact the build has Flying Daggers.

[lament warren]

i'm a devious little imp and press shiv at finisher condition in my opener

😈

which i guess is actually fine

i think i'm so used to my seal fate proccing on it that i forgot that it's 1 cp

so sending at 5 is correct

[worn panther]

does anyone have the simc strings for Flaring Cowl + Eranog ring?

Or better yet cna someone teach me how to get it

[lament warren]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[limber lion]

You can use Gear Compare for that in Raidbots

[lament warren]

o true that works too

[potent oak]

Anyone willing to tell me how I could improve? You can be as critical as you want. I want to push myself.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/jw93n8BZCQDvAfPV/#fight=22&type=damage-done&source=21

[rocky ruin]

got puzzle box on my second try of academy :D

[limber lion]

Grats!

[worn panther]

tyvm @limber lion @lament warren

[lament warren]

the one i linked is crit vers lariat

don't use it

[rocky ruin]

ty

[limber lion]

Get more gear. Get better weapons, get 4p, get better trinkets, get better rings.

[potent oak]

Any rotational issues?

[limber lion]

Many.

!logs @potent oak

[potent oak]

Can you point them out to me?

[lament warren]

ya check the log thread he just made

[limber lion]

Yeah I made the thread for you

!pd

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[limber lion]

@potent oak

!wa

[prisma monolith]

Assassination WA's:
https://wago.io/SJLQKGjMM (Afenar's Group)
https://wago.io/LuxthosRogueDragonflight (Luxthos's Group)
https://wago.io/ByzCxPq-m (Devlin's Group)

[forest oasis]

heyo, new sin player; in this luxthos WA after using echo reprim; what do the blue cp mean and why do they have a yellow outline? is this something i need to care about?

[dusty zenith]

Yes, blue combo points are good to execute rupture or envenoms on

Counts as like a 7 point combo

[forest oasis]

wait so 1 blue cp = 7cp?

[dusty zenith]

Yes

[forest oasis]

oh shit

[dusty zenith]

So say you land on the second blue combo point

You can rupture or envenom it and it will be like a full combo

[forest oasis]

like here i can just rupture/envenom?

[dusty zenith]

Yup

[forest oasis]

thats p cool

[dusty zenith]

So you could have zero combo points

And do serrated blade or shiv

Land on that second combo blue and then do an envenom

[forest oasis]

you cant echo reprim at 0cp and get blue cp?

[pulsar fog]

You can

[forest oasis]

so whys that not better? then u dont waste the generic cp

soz if this is a noob question

[dusty zenith]

Na I was the same way

[pulsar fog]

If you ER at 0 it should always put you on a blue cp

[forest oasis]

oh, the yellow outline is the only possible place in the cp row u can get blue cp?

the 1 and last 2 cant be blue?

[dusty zenith]

Correct

[forest oasis]

but then yllibs statement is incorrect no? if you're at 0cp and ER, you land at 1 cp which isnt blue

unless im mistaken

[drifting cloud]

ER gives 2cp

[forest oasis]

oh

woopsie

[dusty zenith]

Ya even if you don’t land on a blue combo it’s not a huge deal just keep doing rotations and you’ll hit them

[indigo epoch]

Do you even ER? 😂

[forest oasis]

so yeah, perfect scenario you want to ER at 0 cp and rupture/envenom and continue rotation?

[dusty zenith]

Look at assassin faq

For the rotations

Shows you when

[pulsar fog]

Yeah, just always use ER right after a finisher

[dusty zenith]

After your opener use it on cool down

[forest oasis]

gotcha

makes sense now; thanks alot :)

[oblique tangle]

Dude I am about to go postal

Every fucking time a tier piece drops

[forest oasis]

sin is so much more chill compared to sub lmao

[oblique tangle]

Heroic chest? Nah eat shit

[shut owl]

I feel ya

[oblique tangle]

I put in thje fuckin' work man

Where's the pay-out

[shut owl]

I've got 3 evo, 2 monk, and a warrior to compete with in my guild and we've had 2 tokens drop total lol

[balmy condor]

correct yeah

[forest oasis]

i wonder if blizzard will return personal loot 👀

i dont think anyone likes the shared loot lmao

[shut owl]

I prefer loot control for progression

[forest oasis]

+1

[shut owl]

cuz its all fun and games until your friend gets a +3 upgrade to your shared BiS whatever and can't trade it to you 😛

[brazen zodiac]

i hope so dis blows

[spice spire]

Nah group loot is nutso tbf

[forest oasis]

[spice spire]

I spend about 5 hours a week prepping for loot drops for my guild and still get yelled at what’s not to love

Spend equal parts raiding to planning loot for raids, big

[brazen zodiac]

epic

just win the roll

[spice spire]

We do loot council

So almost everything that matters (weapons, rare items, tier) are preplanned with a descending priority

[drifting cloud]

what about the necks to trade for otter mounts

thats the real prio list

[shut owl]

truth

[drifting cloud]

I got mythic terros one just need mythic dathea for a mythic otter

[spice spire]

Yes man

Highest achievement points first obvi

[prisma cypress]

thoughts on accelerated agility chest enchant?

[shut owl]

why?

[prisma cypress]

the speed's got to be worth something

it's not nothing

[shut owl]

doesn't waking give you stam also though?

[oblique tangle]

Y'all my first piece of gear in 2 weeks from a raid

🙏

[shut owl]

at the very least it gives you more agi, and thats got to be worth something

[prisma cypress]

well thats kind of what im asking

i know it's hard to quantify the speed effect in terms of survival etc

how much speed is 39 agility worth?

[drifting cloud]

youre a rogue speed isnt worth much, if anything just enchant it on boots

but youre also giving up stamina there

[prisma cypress]

it's not worth much, but it's worth something, and you're not giving up much

[shut owl]

its almost 10ilvl worth of agi ain't it?

[drifting cloud]

youre giving up dps

[prisma cypress]

giving up patchwerk sim dps, you mean

[shut owl]

okay... but you could also regain that speed dps by just improving your usage of cds like shadowstep?

[spice spire]

[prisma cypress]

there's no reason you can't do both

[shut owl]

what

[prisma cypress]

and speed isn't just about getting from point a to point b, it's about dodging mechanics

[shut owl]

I can't even with that line of reasoning

[prisma cypress]

you're talking about "regaining speed dps" by using shadowstep better - okay, but you could use shadowstep better AND benefit from speed

[drifting cloud]

hey if you think that speed makes a difference go for it, sounds like youve already made your mind

[shut owl]

^

[prisma cypress]

no, i just went with waking stats, but i don't think it's a no-brainer

[shut owl]

you asked for our opinions... we gave them

[prisma cypress]

that's fair

[limber lion]

Speed is super useless

Worst tertiary

[prisma cypress]

i'm just surprised people are so preoccupied with sim dps, but i guess i shouldn't be

[spice spire]

More stats isn’t just sim dps

[drifting cloud]

I like avoidance, I wont mind leech, speed for rogue is just whatever

[prisma cypress]

tertiaries are underrated i think

[timber meadow]

@spice spire what goes into how you plan for loot drops?

[spice spire]

I mean tertiaries are awesome, avoidance and leech are ++

[shut owl]

avoidance is the only one I particularly care about, and thats only for keys with doodoo healers t-t

[prisma cypress]

more stats aren't just sim dps, that's true, but something like speed is a benefit that's not quantified in sims

[spice spire]

Too many sims

[shut owl]

I'm alch so I just chug whatever random shit is in my bags and heal XD

[timber meadow]

avoidance isn't really about doodo healers its about avoiding one shots

[spice spire]

I mean speed really isn’t that big of a benefit. I legit can’t think of a time where +5% speed helps me dodge something that playing better wouldn’t is my argument here

[shut owl]

when your healer can't catch up between unavoidable 1 and unavoidable 2 it is 😛

I haven't pugged anything that's one-shot range yet

[timber meadow]

are you basically just simming all your raiders characters with diff combinations of stuff?

[prisma cypress]

turns out it does not give stam, btw

[shut owl]

whabam

[drifting cloud]

the raiders probably just give their droptimizers to officers and they parse the info

atleast thats how we do it

[shut owl]

srry

misread, am tired

[balmy condor]

based

[shut owl]

had to level a paladin the last few hours

[spice spire]

Yep.
Along with current ilvl stuff, gain, if x drops, and the general feels good drops.
One player getting all the loot because they don’t do anything but raid log ain’t it. So other stuff has to come into play

[spice spire]

I do it all

[drifting cloud]

😵‍💫

[balmy condor]

maybe if you let them meow they would help you more

[spice spire]

“ Be kind to yourself”

[shut owl]

oof

[balmy condor]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/821608916998815784.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[spice spire]

Deadass have a trial that didn’t know who Will was and asked him if he was “the Druid that meows in raid” today

This man infamous

He raided with him in uldir

[shut owl]

thats amazing

[drifting cloud]

hows prog quake

[timber meadow]

@spice spire yeah im a fairly casual give relative to how hard i push keys so im like 4 ilevels above the next highest person - our RL basically has to make dfiferent decisions on bis rogue drops because of that or else id just never get loot

[shut owl]

I just pass on everything that aint tier cuz I farmed better on my own t-t

[spice spire]

Better than last tier. We’re on raz (h) rn. And if it feels impossible, we’re probably just gonna do mythic council + eranog loot piñata

[drifting cloud]

if I had to guess 7/8h and eranog dead or do you guys not even step into mythic

[spice spire]

Nah we want to this tier - 5 hours a week makes prog a little slow, but they’re doing a lot better this tier with maintaining

[balmy condor]

did you down mythic council already

[timber meadow]

oh wow, you're also in a relatively casual guild for how well you know assasin - is that just cause if irl stuff or you just enjoy more casual raiding?

[drifting cloud]

eranog is free, council you just have to yell for pre spreading alot and maybe some soak assignments

both alot easier than razH numbers wise

[balmy condor]

if quake is 7/8 heroic and 2/8 mythic

and I'm 8/8 heroic and 3/8 mythic

but I raid 12 hours

[timber meadow]

wtf

[spice spire]

No

[balmy condor]

and he raids 5

then I will

lose my shit

[drifting cloud]

yeah but youre closer to 5/8m than quake is to aotc

[timber meadow]

you're 3/8m and raid 12 hours/week?

[spice spire]

I work like 65ish hours a week + fiancé + other stuff.
And about 15 hours of travel time

[shut owl]

I'm 7/8H 0/8M cuz my guild doesn't have the numbers for mythic lol

somehow our casual guild is top 20 for hyjal

[spice spire]

So if I ever want to raid more competitive and more hours, I’ll have to change jobs

[balmy condor]

[timber meadow]

@spice spire yeah i feel ya, im in a fairly similar type of situation with irl stuff... boomer life

[balmy condor]

we raid 9 now

[spice spire]

Ye

[balmy condor]

technically

[drifting cloud]

you also have 15h of travel time on top of that job? what the frick

[shut owl]

we aren't getting raz anytime soon though since we've only got one healer putting up numbers :<

[balmy condor]

sennarth dies this week

[spice spire]

That’s being a bit uh. Conservative. Sometime when I have to be there at 8 it’s about 3.5 hours one way

[timber meadow]

lol im a consultant but after covid we stopped traveling cause clients were okay with mostly zoom qol went wayyyyyyyyyyy up

[balmy condor]

hopefully

[spice spire]

Bless traffic

[timber meadow]

also expenses went way down

[drifting cloud]

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-wtf-monkey-gasp-monkey-gif-22578374

[balmy condor]

damn you have to drive from san francisco to slight outside of san francisco?

[timber meadow]

LOL i lived in palso alto and commuted to sf every morning

[spice spire]

Nah it’s 34 miles out of Nashville to downtown Nashville

[timber meadow]

whispyr is being serious

[spice spire]

Same shit tho

[drifting cloud]

does nashville have uber helicopter rides

you should look into that

[spice spire]

Brother I wish

On god

I’d take the Xanax every day to save myself 4ish hours

[spice spire]

We started the tier with way too many healers

And people in general

[timber meadow]

raz feels like an ilevel fight for sure

[spice spire]

We’re at about 33-34 wanting to raid

[timber meadow]

ilevel will shit on that boss

[spice spire]

Yeah I’d prefer to kill the boss naturally; but at 403 I feel I’m already slightly over ilvl for it.
I think our average is 393

[timber meadow]

393 avg ilevel? dayumm

[shut owl]

our damage is great for it, but we've only got one person breaking 40k hps atm, so folks are just dropping like flies

[spice spire]

Just praying someone swaps monk

[timber meadow]

[shut owl]

mistweaver?

[near cradle]

man puzzle box is so damn broken

better than my 389 trinket

[shut owl]

its juicy for sure

[near cradle]

a 372 version

[timber meadow]

i know puzzle box is strong but i realllly dislike playing with it in M+

[shut owl]

why play puzzlebox when you can make everyone panic with stormboon instead 😛

[dark arrow]

anyone else wish Blizzard could balance Sin, Outlaw, and Sub to make them all equally good in both single target and AOE? lol

[slow needle]

Not really, I like swapping specs based on boss fights requiring different niches.

[spring moth]

where does puzzlebox go into the opener rotation ?

[slow needle]

Allowing me to feel as if I'm playing the whole class.

[dark arrow]

like i'd love for us to be able to have the same gear and regardless of spec be able to still do the same dps. So you can just play the spec you want without feeling pressured by the community to play whats 'meta' because one is better for whatever your doing.

[balmy condor]

!box

[prisma monolith]

Algeth'ar Puzzle Box usage:
When playing Exsanguinate, use Puzzle Box just before pressing Exsanguinate. Otherwise always sync Puzzle Box with Deathmark.
Holding Puzzle Box and Exsanguinate for a minute to sync with the 4 minute Deathmark is generally beneficial. Using Puzzle Box on cooldown can be beneficial with very specific fight lengths.

[slow needle]

Just play what you want then.

[dark arrow]

I was for a while during SL. I fought the meta and ran assassination religiously but as I got into higher level content (I mostly do M+) it got near impossible to get invites into groups.

[balmy condor]

run your own key or make some friends

[dark arrow]

As soon as I switched to the 'meta' spec I got into groups in like 5-10 minutes of searching instead of spending an hour lol.

[slow needle]

Fuck the community. 10th best rogue according to r.io is Seli playing Sin.

Just play what you enjoy and talk to people in keys.

Especially tanks and healers, add them on b.net after good runs or even bad ones where the attitudes were right.

Build a network of people you think are good players and who think you are a good one.

[dark arrow]

i'm so rusty now. I gave into the meta in S3 of SL. Whispyr was nice enough to help me learn Sub for the first time (which I still super appreciate) then went outlaw for S4 and now S1 in DF. Tried Sin tonight in a normal alt run raid and holy moly i'm rusty as hell.

[slow needle]

Put more hours in and knock the rust off

All 3 rogue specs are really good for keys atm. Just because top top rogues choose to play outlaw doesn't mean you have to.

[dark arrow]

I had 1 fight I forgot S&D the whole time cuz I was so focused on my bleed management and the newer abilities. Then when I had a log reviewed on Terros it was pointed out I forgot deadly poison lol.

Then next few fights I was feeling better and not missing those silly basic stuff but still was only parsing like 30 overall and like 15 for ilvl. Though I know stat weights prob have a big impact cuz i'm fully built for outlaw with crit/vers stacked

[drifting cloud]

they dont

maybe if youre running around with 2k vers sucks a little but still not that major

[slow needle]

Yeah having different preferred stats between specs kinda sucks but its fixable.

Can always build out a Sin set as Outlaw if you really want. I say just put in the reps while networking. Once you shake the rust off I would reckon anything up to a 15 is more playing clean dependant than hard dps check.

[dark arrow]

agreed about up to 15 being clean dependent then dps. been working on 16-17 and tried a couple 18 this week and holy the gap between 17-18 feels huge. I only have 2 piece tier and a 398 offhand and i'm sitting here feeling like I need that 4 piece and a 415 offhand to be able to do 18 lmfao

[coral willow]

Play what you’re most comfortable with. Outlaw is meta in Mythic level raiding.

[spring moth]

if I opened from stealth with garrote and I already have S&D, then use ER, I will end up like the picture
should I use CT, mutilate, Rupture at that point?

[slow needle]

And I would 100% wager any dps issues you think are gear related are 90% just getting used to things again and will disappear.

[balmy condor]

if you don't have rupture you would rupture, if you're in aoe you would CT, otherwise you would envenom

almost finish on 5/6

[dark arrow]

right no i'm most comfortable and skilled with Outlaw. Like I got it down really well and always at the top of the meters in my guilds raids and able to keep up with the highest dps in any M+ group i'm in thus far. I just really miss assassination because I enjoyed it alot. Plus I love the rogue being an assassin style character. Pirate themed outlaw with the guns n stuff just doesn't feel great for the more fantasy side of the game lol.

like when I play elderscrolls games I beeline to the dark brotherhood. Love being an assassin style character

[spring moth]

what do you mean by "if you don't have rupture you would rupture"

did you mean mutilate?

[fierce umbra]

No

[balmy condor]

no like if the target doesn't have rupture

you don't mutilate on 5

[spring moth]

ahh

ok

[balmy condor]

5 cp is always a finisher

[dark arrow]

which side note I have a guildie who works for Bethesda (worked on the million re-releases of skyrim) and the asshole won't give me even the slightest leak in regards to a new elder scrolls. damn guy takes his NDA so seriously jeez.

[coral willow]

You use a finisher at max-1 combo points, it’s just question of what finisher

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/guide/classes/rogue/assassination/rotation-cooldowns-pve-dps

there's a section here

talking about the finisher decision making

[mighty goblet]

has anyone tried IC with iron wire on the dathea adds or are they spaced too far? (ignoring dps loss from build)

[balmy condor]

it works

[coral willow]

Not worth what you’d have to give up imo

[balmy condor]

you might miss the very edges

but you do silence the majority

but yeah

dont do that

[dark arrow]

im assuming with the AOE opener with 3x garrotes at the start are all on different targets in the group lol.

[mighty goblet]

cool 🙂 thanks guys

[balmy condor]

assassination is one of the specs where it's hard to even justify going up for the adds at all

in heroic I was told to stay on boss

I've never done an add platform

[balmy condor]

yeh of course

[dark arrow]

doesn't say it explicitly and some ppl are really dumb (I can be one of them at times). I can totally see someone being like "oh ok" and just click it 3 times on the same bloody target lmfao.

[slow needle]

Not much to miss. Just adds and sad RL noises when kicks and stuns are missed.

[balmy condor]

yeh I mean it's an aoe opener so I assume it's implied. If that logical leap can't be made to spread dots on a dot class, there's some bigger issues :P

[coral willow]

I specced sub for dathea for that precise reason

[dark arrow]

agreed lmfao

[spring moth]

is garroting a boss twice in the opener a bad idea? (idea being longer garrote duration)

[inner temple]

!faq

https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/856136418170896404

[balmy condor]

it's actually shrouded that pushes that ahead more than the garrote duration

I mean it helps for sure

but the extra cp

and the 20% helps push it over

[prisma cypress]

do we save vanish to sync with exsanguinate?

[balmy condor]

You hold exsanguinate to sync with Deathmark

Not the other way around

[misty holly]

I mean, gear scaling this expansion feels way more intense than it did in Shadowlands.

Maybe it's just the higher numbers overall making it more noticeable, but 10 ilevel now feels like a massive amount of dps.

Someone 395 comparing themself to someone 405 isn't even the same ballpark

like that could be 15k difference

just from items

[drifting cloud]

thats not even remotely true

unless the 395 has no set, dogshit trinkets, missing half enchants

[slow needle]

Maybe, and I mean no offence to the fella, he forgot to use SnD on one boss and to have deadly applied on another.
If he shared some logs there are likely many smaller issues to iron out that could be found before gear becomes relavent to doing good damage.

[drifting cloud]

and 405 has 4p, 418wep, eranog ring

[slow needle]

Its just the usual getting used to a spec sort of things.

And the 395 to 405 gap is complicated by most (I would wager) getting past 400 are people also raiding and likely getting tier in that transition.

So its a ~10% dps boost depending on the class.

[strange python]

!simguide

[prisma monolith]

Guide to Simming yourself: https://www.wowhead.com/how-to-use-raidbots-sims-stat-weights

For more accurate results you should always sim yourself using Top Gear for gear you already have in your bags
or Droptimizer to see which content drops the biggest upgrade for you. Do not use Stat Weights sims to evaluate gear.

[stray mural]

recrafting my dagger to 418, do i keep it crit haste or go crit mast

[drifting cloud]

crit mast

[vocal gazelle]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[peak basin]

I’m playing DTB for M+. How do I determine when to spam CT or envenom dump (hoping for poison bomb proc) for AoE pulls?

[balmy condor]

On 5 target you ct, on less than that you ct less and envenom more

[kind talon]

zerocool predicted the future

he was 5+ target ct spamming in shadowlands

[peak basin]

Do I need to upkeep envenom buff while CT spamming on 5+ targets? Or just forget envenom

[regal crest]

In general do we think it will sin will be more competitive with the other specs in M+ after the ptr changes or will it still be behind

[magic vine]

eh, the simulation sheet there has 395->408 (off of just ilvl changes if i'm reading it correctly) be a 9k increase, or 13%

[balmy condor]

you can toss the odd one in to get your snd up

[gusty mirage]

he was also foking in ST

[balmy condor]

the ptr m+ builds is essentially equal to the current builds

[magic vine]

so that plus set differences is a lot

[gusty mirage]

what a revolutionary

[drifting cloud]

they said 15k not 15%

[kind talon]

He was playing around echoing blades, without the talent I think

Genius

[balmy condor]

also this can be a bit dangerous because 395->408 is including daggers and most everyone will have a mainhand crafted

[gusty mirage]

he was playing around an azerite trait?

insane

[balmy condor]

so you lose a lot of that 13% by just having a good dagger baseline

[magic vine]

yea if the 395 has the dagger that makes up for some for sure, if they're missing set thats most of the rest of the missing compare though

[oak sky]

no it was poisoned katar

i was there

[kind talon]

W

[oak sky]

"its actually not bad because of the extra crit"

[magic vine]

even if the guy is exaggerating some because its not going to be the full difference, that ilvl jump and 4p->0p is a 15k spread

[balmy condor]

yeh sure

if you're missing set that definitely bumps the number up

[magic vine]

and knocking the extreme off some and saying they've got 2p and a good dagger (dunno how much this would make up, 3k? more?) you're still at a pretty big swing

[brazen zodiac]

i cant wait to craft my own flaring cowl tomorrow and take 20 tries to get 418 @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

[brazen zodiac]

i hate how important prof gear is lol, i wanna get herb prof gear but too busy selling all my mettle

[grim jay]

Was recrafting my dagger like 8 times. Cowl and neck 418 first try. Luck got back to me

[brazen zodiac]

ive seen people take way more tries than it should on some rerolls tbh

22 tries at a 42% was probably the craziest tbh

[peak basin]

How many ruptures should I keep up for energy in AoE packs? I try to keep up 3-4 but feels like I’m wasting globals, less than that and I feel starved.

[balmy condor]

enough to not starve

[peak basin]

Kk, guess I gotta get more in the groove. Been so troublesome keeping up in dps for AoE packs in these dungeons.

[rancid crypt]

for pure ST, kingsbane sims higher for me, is that the "preffered" build for ST like Terros?

If not the what's the most "commonly" used build for ST

[grim jay]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[grim jay]

It will tell you what sims highest

With optimal gear

And people usually go with that except if it is some cursed shit

Bleed DTB with exsang is currently what people use with 4p

[rancid crypt]

meaning the dragon-Kingsblade build?

Or that build but with exsang

[grim jay]

DTB, no kingsbane

[rancid crypt]

ahhh

[grim jay]

There are sims for different tier bonuses below

[rancid crypt]

KB Exsang sims highest for me out of all those spreadsheet builds

ah

[grim jay]

Builds change a bit depending on 0p 2p or 4p

[rancid crypt]

i have no tier yet

[grim jay]

Then you should sim the poison dtb vs kingsbane

Its on 0p or 2p most likely aswell

[rancid crypt]

yeah i simmed all builds from spreadsheet

and KB exang simmed highest for me

1target 5min

[grim jay]

How high is the diff ?

[feral rivet]

It depends on gear in general, not just tier. KB sims better for me than bleed DTB for example and i have 4p

[rancid crypt]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4ReEAg3a7BRJhY8SUxyuxC

10 dps is the diff from 2nd highest build

11*

lols

[trail tree]

for me kb exsang sims 700 more than dtb

[plain onyx]

why the KB build has more buttons

[shut owl]

More buttons more fun

I just wanna know why sims suggest I maintain CT in st for kb/ic build

[plain onyx]

yeah, exactly when i play KB build..

[shut owl]

That's some GATTACA shit right there

[craggy sierra]

Went from sin to sub and instant more damage despite not knowing how to play sub

RIP

[drifting cosmos]

raid or keys

[craggy sierra]

Council

so like I get it

but still sad

[drifting cosmos]

lol yea I think so too, less buttons for more dmg

[craggy sierra]

I really like sin but I feel like we have to do so many buttons for really not that much dps at this point

[grim jay]

Would honestly just play dtb then, especially if the state of incoming changes

[grim jay]

Pretty normal to maintain ct on ST if talented into it

[chrome peak]

Hey so I've been told I mess up my Deathmark burst, any tips for that? I know I Slice and Dice too late (I get nervous at 1 combo point so I activate at 5 like a moron), but how can I umprove my Deathmark? Do I need to have everything (Garrote, Rupture) up before I use it? Do I use it as soon as we pull the boss, do I wait?

Please be nice I'm just trying to improve. My logs keep coming out gray and my friend went through my logs in detail, essentially telling my the only thing that's wrong are my Deathmarks.

[magic vine]

wants to know your location

[grim jay]

Just read the faq and all your questions will be answered

Alternatively !guide

[magic vine]

being nervous is just a thing, playing more is really the only way to get past that

[little light]

there are openers in the faq if you practice with those you cant miss :p

[magic vine]

like random situations will make me nervous and suddenly i'm fumbling super basic bits of the kit, but thats all just being rusty at it

[little light]

most of the times you just open garrote (or x3 depending) and then slice and you never have to think about it again

[wide hemlock]

deathmark copies bleeds before and after. try it out on a dummy. deathmark and then garote it you'll see

[little light]

I think by logic if you dont have the bleeds up when you deathmark you will always lose a tick of it

so you want to have them already before deathmark

[chrome peak]

Ty, looks like it's gonna be a lot of training dummy time after work

[marble cedar]

I wonder if anyone's able to give me some pointers on DPS? My gear is good (almost 400 ilvl - no tier set) but I'm really doing poorly in raids. I maintain all bleeds, use Exang with Deathmark, pair Shiv with Kingsbane and rinse repeat

Not sure where I'm going wrong?

[grim jay]

Well, either work it out by reading a guide or go with !log and post a log

So we can actually see what you are doing

And what you arent doing, for that matter

[marble cedar]

Log from yesterday (Oovus) https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/Q6GBwhmTLk1M2Zny/#boss=-2&difficulty=0&wipes=2&type=damage-done

[little light]

hmm someone will be able to tell analyze better but I opened it > wen to Terros and saw you using Kingsbane build but amplyfing poison? if im not mistaken deadly is better with that build

[marble cedar]

This is also my gear: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3xs3HuX8bwpogJtcLq4s6S

[wide hemlock]

easy things to fix, craft a lariat, use the food buff in DF, and use a DF phial not the shadowlands one. im looking at the other assa rogue and what he uses

[marble cedar]

Made a 405 Lariat last night

See raidbots above for new kit

[vestal cliff]

What does gray logs mean?

[marble cedar]

I'm shit?

I think because my ilvl is so high vs the damage output?

[royal lantern]

396 is not high

[grim jay]

Your ilvl isnt high

[royal lantern]

410is high

[marble cedar]

Oh actually you're right, it's grey on ilvl

hmm not ssure?

[shut owl]

your ilvl parse usually isn't gonna be great if your weapons are fairly low compared to your overall

[marble cedar]

Think my dagger is 402, offhand 385

[chrome peak]

It means, for instance, that less than 24% of assa rogues do less damage on the same boss

[marble cedar]

I suppose my main question is why is my DPS so shit compared to my guildies?

[shut owl]

we're in the same ilvl bracket for this week and I can tell you that you played a lot cleaner on bleed upkeep than I did on terros, but my 411 daggers are gonna carry me heavily even when I played like doodoo

[marble cedar]

Our gear looks comparable, with the exception he has a 2 tier set

[chrome peak]

What about your burst? Apparently that's all I'm doing wrong

[wide hemlock]

doing a compare on bush and looking at the casts timeline, you can see that he always has 2 shivs for his kingsbane.

[marble cedar]

That helps

He also had Lariat neck yesterday

[wide hemlock]

or at least he has one for the later part. you tend to use shiv at the start

i think its advised to have it for the last half of kingsbane as it gets stronger towards the end.

[full coral]

KB rules are on the faq

they’re p in-depth too

[ashen rover]

!logs

[shut owl]

I mean... your friend also has 5 casts of grieftorch in a 4 minute fight?

if I'm reading that right?

[full coral]

LUL

link i’ll take a peek

[royal lantern]

[shut owl]

thats... kinda hard to compete with

as far as trinkets go

[chrome peak]

Wait what what's the CD of grieftorch?

[grim jay]

Ilvl parses are meh at best in any case

[wide hemlock]

ruby whelp cries

[full coral]

grief is a 2min

[chrome peak]

Daym

[full coral]

and if some1 dies the CD is reduced by 90s

[royal lantern]

2min, reduced by 90sec when somone dies

[marble cedar]

!logs

[chrome peak]

I know what I'm gonna do on Kurog if I get grieftorch

[grim jay]

My grieftorch on progress last night had mostly 20s cd

[shut owl]

anyhoo, I can keep looking cuz my insomnia is at 100 tonight in the review

[chrome peak]

LOL

!logs

[chrome peak]

Oh oof I feel you. Takes hours to fall asleep usually...

[drifting cosmos]

drink more coffee helps

[chrome peak]

ADHD makes coffee work weird

[shy pendant]

not complaining but it feels suspicious that DTB poison sims highest for me with 4pc

[balmy condor]

stats are weird

[shut owl]

my head hurts t-t

[frosty cedar]

poison dtb is the most based build

[tacit pebble]

is it even worth using puzzle box on m raz, or just use current technique? Timings seem fucking awful for 3 minutes

[balmy condor]

puzzle box is pretty good on raz

people play exsang, that's 3 minutes too right

you should get it for first and third shield and last phase

probably just yucky for intermissions, but lets get real, you're playing assassination

you're worthless in intermissions anyway

[shut owl]

imagine having to take CT for intermissions :<

[subtle tundra]

I just do whatever the fuck I want nowadays

[ashen rover]

Intermissions make me depresso espresso

[tacit pebble]

pretty sure you'd only get 1 cast on a shield assuming they're 5:45 ~7:05 and ~8:25. would be cast on pull, would have to be on first shield for my guilds comp (2nd shield dmg will be worthless with UHDK army+metas) and then i guess start of p3 and a babby cast end of p3.

could also do an intermission 2 cast i guess but thats pretty worthless

[royal lantern]

noooo, you.....ST FUNNEL the elemental

[balmy condor]

yeah bad math you're right

[tacit pebble]

would also not be able to grieftorch 1st shield because of trinket cd

[royal lantern]

its torch

the cd is "how many warriors use charge"

[tacit pebble]

we will never have a dps warrior again

the only current public logged raz for sin used 3 puzzle boxes in 14 minutes

[balmy condor]

yeh that's garbo

[tacit pebble]

wasnt using in intermission and the end of p3 one got superseded by hella grieftorch resets

that 5:45ish timing for first shield is just so awful

[inland kernel]

hey guys. I mainly raid with sub and play m+ as Outlaw/sub, wanna get back on my old asa m+ spec, are there many playing asa in m+?

[balmy condor]

there are not many playing it, but it's pretty good

[little light]

also very frustrating

[inland kernel]

that's is more important "pretty good

[balmy condor]

assa m+ is doing outlaw damage

it's actually strong

[inland kernel]

more on fortified due to it's dot based?

[balmy condor]

nah, even on tyrannical

it's just a good spec

problem is that it's way more difficult to play in m+ than outlaw

outlaw you kinda just blade flurry and gg

[inland kernel]

ahha right, and click cds

asa is more of mob tracking

gotta try it out, played as main in SL

not it feels mor fun with new talents

[tacit pebble]

will probably be even better next patch, getting a nice new talent and build options for m+

[inland kernel]

but generally it should perform better on fortified than tyranical if we are talking about 15-18 keys?

[inland kernel]

you mean shiv aoe?

[little light]

anywhere I can read about that?

[balmy condor]

it's not really showing that much of a gain atm

[jaunty nest]

is this really better than lariat for us?

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

no

[tacit pebble]

i know im playing sin m+ after the patch solely to cleave cold blooded tiny toxic blades

[balmy condor]

it's that trinket

no

wait

that neck isn't even special

that's just some crazy haste stat stick

[royal lantern]

ENERGY????

[balmy condor]

for sure

it isn't even the best non-embellished neck

[thin kernel]

What poisons do we use for m+ DTB build? the faq/build example is confusing me 😄

[balmy condor]

are you talented into amp?

[thin kernel]

the example build ahs it yes, but the faw says not to use it

[balmy condor]

?

FaQ literally says if you talent into amplifying poison, you will use amplifying poison

[thin kernel]

"as we do not run Amplifying Poison in Mythic+" was what i read in the "Amplifying vs Deadly vs Instant vs Wound:"

[balmy condor]

ah

I see

you got confused because kbic is the recommended build and that doesn't have access to amp

the rule for dtb is instant poison is dogshit, wound poison is dogshit, so you play the only 2 other poisons you have

[thin kernel]

thanks

[balmy condor]

np

[fallen charm]

does this work on raid/dungeons?

and if so how good is the 4 set?

[deft cave]

4p of this requires to kill adds frecuently so only real scenarios are eranog and diurna so w/e

and i think u cant have 4p of this + 4p of raid

[fallen charm]

yeah but on dungeon we are killing things constantly

[balmy condor]

also the highest ilvl you get on those is 385

[deft cave]

ah my brain totaly ignored /dungeon

[balmy condor]

which is a full 30 ilvl under valor gear

[fallen charm]

true

I have some 400 ilv gear and sim still says these are better

[balmy condor]

and the 4 piece tier is the good bonus in m+

[fallen charm]

340 crit is kinda op

[balmy condor]

that's 3 gem slots

[deft cave]

2p can be good till u get high ilvl pieces

specialy in bracers/foot

which give less stats

[shut owl]

bracer belt is my go-to for alts

[balmy condor]

yeah the losses I'm seeing are crazy

just swapping boots from a 421 pair is like -1.5%

bonus ain't gonna fix that

[shut owl]

well, yeah. major agi loss ain't gonna be matched by moderate secondary boon

[balmy condor]

ye

[fallen charm]

true

thanks guys

[quasi pine]

How do you recommend to sim to try replicating a dungeon?

[balmy condor]

dungeonslice

[quasi pine]

ok thx

(thought it wasnt on point)

[balmy condor]

wdym

[balmy condor]

"a devastating elemental attack"

[shut owl]

devastating to our hopes for sure

[fallen charm]

[quasi pine]

Idk the last time i checked (long time ago tbh) it wasnt accurate apparently

[balmy condor]

yeah if the last time you checked was early-mid legion when it got made, it wasn't very optimized for

by the end of legion, all the rogue specs were optimized for dungeonslice

and it's been good every since

[quasi pine]

nice thx for the response

[balmy condor]

np

[subtle tundra]

Just sim the route dude

[balmy condor]

dungeonroute

now that is something sketch

[shut owl]

but who will sim the simmers

[balmy condor]

dungeonroute does one thing good

and that's breaking conventional APL's

[subtle tundra]

Simulate dslice

[gloomy dust]

It's a set of 8 so why not?

[gloomy dust]

Well nvm

[balmy condor]

we were looking for 9% dps from that spark

in order to be competitive

running 4 pieces of gear was almost a full 10% loss

[gloomy dust]

0,1% is a just a smitch off

[livid ruin]

Can anyone help me with a simulation question real quick?

I have a concentrated infusion that I can either spend on upgrading my lariat or my dagger, so I want to simulate both choices for my character. But my normal technique of selecting the item in wowhead and then copying the ids to raidbots isn't working

[timber basalt]

Can you not add the items manually into gear compare and select the 418 ilvl there

[limpid moth]

i mean the weapon is going to win out in sim no doubt if the ilvl dif is more than 3 vs what ur currently using

/fuu

[storm onyx]

MH weapon makes or breaks the rogue, its always the priority unless ilvl is really really minor

[vestal wren]

its !fuu or !sheet

[ebon ocean]

i assume blindside is the same as hidden opportunity where you need a separate ambush button out of stealth right

[storm onyx]

You can find the items in Gear Compare sim, or can use the little + sign on item lists in Top Gear

[fading wigeon]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[livid ruin]

Alright thanks guys I managed to get the items!

Simming them now, the reason I'm not convinced on weapons is because of the high item level weapons I have already

[subtle tundra]

you know whats something that i noticed and i dont understand

why does outlaw have a 10% stamina talent

randomly