assassination

[regal nymph]

Does anyone else have trouble keeping cds synced in m+

Like I sometimes don't have kingsbane for my deathmark

Do I just hold deathmark for king's bane or just send it

[lusty surge]

I think the best way to learn is to just default send everything on cd

[regal nymph]

That's what I do a lot of the time

[lusty surge]

Over time as you get more accustomed to the flow of the dungeons and what needs super burst

You will start to sync things naturally

[regal nymph]

Alg trinket gets desync'd from exsang

[lusty surge]

Missing casts is generally a good way to end up with bad dps

But obviously there are cases where you want the burst, it's just hard to know what those situations are without experience

[regal nymph]

You hold deathmark for sub 35% if boss is at 50% in m+?

[upper spear]

so if im reading FAQ and looking at logs correctly, DTB vs KB is sustain vs burst decision?

[lusty surge]

I almost never hold cds unless something is literally about to die

But I'm still in just send it phase

I've been toying with trying to desync cds from the other dps and try to send stuff in execute

But I can't say how viable that is

[cloud moat]

I suppose you could hold it on Tyrant week without big adds after boss but overall should just pop on cd

[lusty surge]

Like it seems to me that using every other IC with vanish and holding it for execute should be quite good

[cloud moat]

Yep KB offers a bigger burst every 1min and a juicy one every 2min with DM

[lusty surge]

I think there's probably room to line up kb dm exsang in execute and really shine

It's just tricky to find that without losing casts

[upper spear]

i feel like burst is always the way to go? better for timing against intermissions and damage checks

Mythic Eranog for the line phase for example

or Raz shield in p2

[lusty surge]

It does seem that burst dps has generally been more useful than sustained dps

[cloud moat]

Idk mythic Eranog doesn't really require that much DPS out of the raid. Honestly just play the one you prefer to play

[lusty surge]

But it's not like any sustained dps spec is tuned much higher than burst

[cloud moat]

There doesn't feel to be a large difference

[lusty surge]

To compensate for how useful burst is

[cloud moat]

KB for Rasza is probably the only one where it might actually matter

[shut owl]

the only monstrously notable thing is raz shield lining up with KB

everything else feels like its very dependent upon your raid's kill timer

[lusty surge]

Mfw the boss dies at 5:55 when I'm about to go off

[upper spear]

i loved playinbg Exsang in Nyalotha when I had 300% haste

[upper spear]

i dont see this in FAQ but no reason for professions to impact anything right?

cause if not im just gonna go herb/mine

[balmy condor]

nope

you can work order everything

no need to have your own

[upper spear]

rock picker it is

[balmy condor]

🪨

[compact stirrup]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ahvekx2Px6jAM41wgLstM6

yesterday

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aWsQptv1JDX3ckWZhgsssc

now

any nerf?

[steel sorrel]

Run it again and you get a new number

Thats how sims works

Never the same number because its simulations and you will have different proccs in all sims 🙂

[balmy condor]

not in this case

that's a lot of dps

[steel sorrel]

Oh

[balmy condor]

margin of error is 40 dps

you'll see swings of maybe 80 at most

not 1100

[steel sorrel]

Yet again I have spoken and instantly regretting it

exellent

[balmy condor]

found it

[brazen zodiac]

hehe

[balmy condor]

that's not how openers work

[lavish wing]

Its called theory of large numbers

By repeating the experiment, you remove large oscillations

[steel sorrel]

I understand the theory, just didnt look at the numbers before answering 🙂

Because I am a sloppy lazy bastard apparently

[steel sorrel]

wtf is that opener xD Sim is big brain

[balmy condor]

nah

there was some backend changes to improved garrote buff checking

because of sepsis changes

shouldn't have affected anything

but it seems to have broken the vanish logic

[steel sorrel]

damn

[cloud moat]

Surprisingly large DPS shift for messing up the opener

[balmy condor]

I mean it completely wastes vanish

[steel sorrel]

ye

[cloud moat]

True

[balmy condor]

I don't think it's that surprising

[cloud moat]

Still it's 5 mins

[undone glen]

Sim vanished for the fun of it

[cloud moat]

And I'm expecting the next two abilities are rupture dm

1,1k DPS loss for first wasted vanish in a 5 min fight seems high

[steel sorrel]

Well it fucks up the dmg in Deathmark

Id guess

during BL etc

[balmy condor]

why is that high

I don't get it

[cloud moat]

Deathmark doubled bleeds drop right after DM drops don't they

[steel sorrel]

ye

[balmy condor]

wasting an entire cooldown isn't worth 1.4% dps?

in what universe

did you expect vanish to do absolutely nothing?

I'm struggling to find the logic here

[cloud moat]

Idk just seems high for that particular cd in a 5 min fight

Then again it's like 20 secs imp gar uptime so I could see that

[steel sorrel]

x2

with pot

[strange python]

Hi oxi. I'm toxic. Can this be like AA now?

[dusty zenith]

Should I be doing double sophic devoition or would it be better to do frozen devotion on offhand

[strange python]

Sim. But sophic.

[strange python]

Garrote is our top damage.

[cloud moat]

Speaking of wasting imp garrote, how's the new Sepsis been simming or has anyone implemented it yet for the sim

[strange python]

Tbd. But SBS is very strong. I suspect blizzards intention is for you to take sepsis on st and SBS anywhere else. Who knows if they achieved that

[cloud moat]

Strong and feels good to use too

[strange python]

Personally I think sepsis would be highly annoying to use with an already clunky opener

I really don't want to add even more complexity and recasts of garrote to our CD windows

[minor gate]

im still wondering how much of our very slow spec is affected by us losing a rank on dashing

[amber niche]

@gusty mirage can u sign my autograph

[strange python]

Probably more than people are Counting for

[gusty mirage]

why would I sign your autograph

[cloud moat]

losing a rank

[strange python]

But Oxi. What about stormcaller trinket

[cloud moat]

All this time I foolishly though it's just going to be fit into 2 points instead

[gray crest]

@gusty mirage what about mine?

[cloud moat]

Then again there's no reason to be buffing Assa so idk why I expected it to be done so

[balmy condor]

it looks okay but probably not enough to be played seriously

[brazen zodiac]

[balmy condor]

it sims fine

but like

who in their right mind is going to delay vanish for 45 seconds on opener

the cooldown desyncing that it does

it just dumb silly

[dusty zenith]

I prefer a build for people who are adhd and cant multi task

[balmy condor]

the best case for sepsis is it lines up with exsanguinate

[dusty zenith]

desyncing just makes my head hurt

[balmy condor]

but vanish is just out to lunch

would probably revert back to vanish pre-exsang in opener

just to get them to line up

it's a cursed timeline

the rotation with sepsis becomes a disaster

[mystic zenith]

hey guys. i just wanted to ask how y'all were playing sin during rasz intermission phases

is it worth spreading a lot of ruptures or tunnel big add?

[balmy condor]

spread ruptures for energy and then fok and envenom

and hope the phase ends fast

[mystic zenith]

lmao feelsbadman

[balmy condor]

because you're worthless during intermissions

[dusty zenith]

or spec kb/ic for raz fight?

[balmy condor]

fuck no

[lavish wing]

Just for inter

[dusty zenith]

cmon

dooo it

[lavish wing]

Hell naw

[balmy condor]

that's quite possibly the worst idea ive heard

[small meteor]

Is it worth grabbing ct for the intermission?

[lavish wing]

Just Fok

I dont even bother tabbin

[steel sorrel]

Hope for the RNG gods to give you a PB procc xD

[balmy condor]

if you're trying to pad for overall damage on parse, then MAYBE

[lavish wing]

Small adds die fast

[balmy condor]

the intermissions are piss easy on rasz

why the fuck you guys trying to pad

just do boss damage

you're sin rogues

get it together

[steel sorrel]

❤️

[cerulean nest]

the meters on final phase are so funny

[lavish wing]

I dont even jump to the other platform

[marble hemlock]

im an assa rogue

sry

[lavish wing]

Sas rogue

[dreamy elk]

Sass rogue.

[lavish wing]

Sassy

[steel sorrel]

Nation rogue actually

[mystic zenith]

is it the same case for the surging ruiner? just focus the big add and fok the small ones?

[balmy condor]

yeh

you just sit on big add

and grab cp

with smalls

and then sit on big add again

the rule is if your raid leader ever suggests you do aoe damage as assassination, you tell them to shut the fuck up

"send the rogue up for dathea adds"

no no no

[brazen zodiac]

ima quote dat if thats cool

[balmy condor]

I don't think so

[brazen zodiac]

"lead rogue gamer said no"

[marble hemlock]

https://tenor.com/view/no-no-no-no-nope-deny-disagree-gif-16785580

[balmy condor]

"rogue can you do more damage to small spiders on sennarth?"
nope

I cannot

sorry

raid needs to get good

[brazen zodiac]

not this rogue

[marble hemlock]

cant do more damage

[dusty zenith]

I just dot the other big spider and call it a day

[marble hemlock]

when the base damage i do to it

is 0

0*x is still 0

[balmy condor]

swapping to a big add? that's fine

swapping to aoe?

no

[cloud moat]

There's 0% chance anyone has ever said this seriously

[balmy condor]

sure

I mean

I heard it

but sure

0%

[mystic zenith]

LOL

[small meteor]

Some people just don't know

A RL tried to put me on adds on Diurna the other day...

[steel sorrel]

My RL suggested I go IC on datea to silence the adds. I said fuck off and get dks you bastard

[balmy condor]

there's an endless supply of clueless idiots in the world

[gusty mirage]

your RL sounds smart

[steel sorrel]

Well tbf he was a stand in

Regular is smarter =9

ATLEAST he listened and thats smarter than 90% I feel like

[timber basalt]

guys, what build do i take if i'm add group on diurna

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[balmy condor]

#outlaw

[timber basalt]

apparently this is happening to me

[brazen zodiac]

lmao

[balmy condor]

like I'm not kidding

[timber basalt]

i don't have outlaw weapons 😦

[balmy condor]

you don't play sin

play sub

[forest oasis]

heyo, want to start learning sin for the raid (minus council & rasza)
are these "generic" st talents fine for st or will i need to change alot of stuff between bosses? trying to get the right talents so i can start practicing on dummy :D
https://i.imgur.com/JniDens.png

[balmy condor]

you can play that on every fight and pretty much be fine

you'll want to swap venom rush for CT on council at minimum

[gusty mirage]

true

[timber basalt]

ok i begged to change

[gusty mirage]

try explaining to your warlock RL that the ice on sennarth actually hurts

"it doesn't do any damage"

lol

[steel sorrel]

Hahhaahahaaha

[forest oasis]

gotcha

thanks!

[gusty mirage]

it's hitting for 26k a second

but alright mr. soul leech

[steel sorrel]

But you have leeching poi.. oh wait

[cerulean nest]

literal music to my ears

[marble hemlock]

its not endless

[lavish wing]

U guys doing staff on Diurna?

[marble hemlock]

even if every living human person is an idiot, its not endless

[forest oasis]

also; do i ever use fan of knives in st raid encounters?

[steel sorrel]

No I hit boss

[gusty mirage]

no I sit boss

entire time

I do not move

I do not pass go

I do not collect $200

[balmy condor]

fan on 3+ targets

[lavish wing]

My rl allows ppl on the boss only if does staff

Im sad

[balmy condor]

so you have like 8 people doing the staff?

[gusty mirage]

I volunteered

and was told no

[steel sorrel]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-seriously-omg-really-embarrassed-embarrassing-gif-21528014

[lavish wing]

I volunteered once too and failed so hard

Cause i focused boss

[small meteor]

I was the opposite I did the mechanic properly and then got complained at for low dps

Now I am jaded and salty

[lavish wing]

Im gonna ss this as an explanation why i should sit on boss and not do staff

Rogue hall of famers said so

[indigo totem]

They keep breeding and making more

[marble hemlock]

sure but the heat death of the universe is guaranteed and thus the supply will eventually end

so its not endless

[wary ice]

Get entropy'd nerd

[gusty mirage]

hall of famers?

brotherman

I'm WR like 598

[lavish wing]

Im gonna ramp it up a bit, gotta make an argument

CE at least? 😂

[limber lion]

No, that's for the tank, healer and range

[steel sorrel]

How I wish there was a way to resett all cds when practising openers and shit on dummies..

[gray crest]

438

[lavish wing]

WR?

[gusty mirage]

are we actually

[gray crest]

back in SoFO

[gusty mirage]

oh

I meant like right now

[gray crest]

oh... like 550

[steel sorrel]

Where do you see this number? 🙂

[limber lion]

Yeh, wouldn't that be nice

[gusty mirage]

warcraft logs guild page

@limber lion when am I going to convince you to play poe

[steel sorrel]

Oh, you ment guild rank? THought it was personal somehow 🙂

[forest oasis]

soz for a potential noob question; but what does "pandemic" indicate? (at the bottom)
https://i.imgur.com/Z8E40iq.png

[gray crest]

there is a discrepancy between warcraftlogs and wowprogress it seems...

[gusty mirage]

wowprog doesn't factor in CN

[limber lion]

I've played in the past, but haven't been super excited about it recently. Ultimatum was the last time I touched it

[gusty mirage]

oh

then never touch it again

its awful now

[limber lion]

I played Bleed Bow Glad in Ritual and that was fun, but after that I played a Saboteur trapper/miner twice and hated it both times

PoE also hurts my hands, so that's no gucci :'(

[steel sorrel]

Spamming pots is cancer

Jesus

hwo I hated that shit in PoE

[pulsar apex]

on the single target KB build on the FAQ. what do i take instead of Exang, if i want an exang free life. MA?

[oak sky]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[candid slate]

Hey guys, I have a really stupid question
So, when we do opener from FAQ with KB exsang build, there's a point where your shiv and garrote are going to expire at the same time
And both deathmark/kb up at the same time
What do we want to renew first? Shiv like a second before first shiv debuff is still up on target so we can have both shiv and garrote 100% uptime during our burst or garrote right on 0.01 before it expires and then shiv?

Sim does opener comletely different, where shiv doesn't fully cover kb so I'm asking you ❤️

[oak sky]

Garrote should never drop

[pulsar apex]

anyone?

[oak sky]

Trb or 1 point of poison application iirc

Ttb sorry

[pulsar apex]

ok thanks. i can sim it too eh

ty ty

[oak sky]

Actually i think it must be 1 point of poison application

[pulsar apex]

yeah looking at the alternatives it must be

[oak sky]

You dont have points for ttb

I think

[pulsar apex]

i do actually

i can straight swap exang for TTB

[oak sky]

I honestly cant remember which one is better

Make sure you verify with sims

[pulsar apex]

ty ty i'll give em all a check

[dusty zenith]

For brood what build do you all run

single or aoe ?

[oak sky]

If youre on adds you might want some additional cleave

At minimum the bleed build, probably CT as well

[balmy condor]

You can look at my spreadsheet, it has builds for that

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

Single target, if you’re playing Assassination you’re not doing aoe

[pulsar apex]

the man himself

[pulsar apex]

perfect ty. i knew fuus but not yours.

[ebon notch]

queue up for casual arena

hit enemy once

/ff

all cds reset

[zinc willow]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[gusty mirage]

queue up for the proving grounds

and do the same thing

[ebon notch]

how do you even queue for proving grounds

[gusty mirage]

I think you can still do it in your garrison

[ebon notch]

[limber lion]

Yeah and sit in the waiting lobby area thingy for 2 minutes waiting for the match to start, during which all your cooldowns have reset already

[ebon notch]

isnt it only like 30 seconds?

i dont remember

[limber lion]

It's 90s pretty sure

[ebon notch]

fuck pvp

still worth for exsang and puzzle tbh

but 2 mins yeah probably not

[limber lion]

Queue pops so gotta have time for that then time to prep

[ebon notch]

bro there's only 1 public assa log for raz

gotta plan cds

[balmy condor]

james literally sits in your discord during raid for fun

[ebon notch]

he's playing outlaw for reclears lmao

ill see what he says about assa cds

[balmy condor]

yeah but he did like 250 pulls on assa

[ebon notch]

ye ye its a good shout to ask

[gusty mirage]

jez's husband hangs out with NOCCO?

[balmy condor]

I'd hope not

[sand sigil]

all cd pull
vendetta w/ cloak on wind 4
kb first ruiner
all cd first burn
kb 2nd shield
kb + dm 3rd burn
hold all cds till boss sub 35 at p3 start

[balmy condor]

huge

the man himself

[limber lion]

vendetta

[gusty mirage]

close enough

[balmy condor]

all around me are familiar

[sand sigil]

u can triple shiv on some parts in p2 iirc

like first burn dbl shiv, shiv on cd, 2nd burn dbl shiv, and so on

[balmy condor]

yeh, shields are far enough apart to afford shivs between

[sand sigil]

it funny i just happened to click on sin channel and just leave it open during my tft game and afk

like right as this convo started

lmfao

[gusty mirage]

big props for calling out those fucking boomkins btw james

bis clip of 2023

[sand sigil]

its always the same with them

[ebon notch]

check ur bnet lmao

[gusty mirage]

sometimes I think blizzard keeps them this strong so they don't have to hear tettles bitch

[sand sigil]

cant respond on bnet

[ebon notch]

bnet broke?

[gusty mirage]

check your DMs

[balmy condor]

they have eyes everywhere

they're in the walls

im so itchy

[ebon notch]

check ur dms

[gusty mirage]

you gotta admit

that was pretty good

[ebon notch]

i felt nothing

[gusty mirage]

are you me?

[ebon notch]

[gusty mirage]

bro I've been playing poe all day

[ebon notch]

wait till i get into razsageth prison

boy im gonna feel so much nothing

[gusty mirage]

you think I have control of my life?

[ebon notch]

gonna ride the broodkeeper kill high as long as i can

[gusty mirage]

I know whispyr

I already know

I'm stupid

and sick in the head

[balmy condor]

@gusty mirage check ur dms

wait

wait

[ebon notch]

[balmy condor]

okay check them now

[ebon notch]

bruh

[nocturne current]

[balmy condor]

it was loading very slowly

[frank stone]

do i use puzzle box on cd or only with DM

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[balmy condor]

hold exsang + puzzle box for dm

[frank stone]

gotcha

thanks

[cerulean nest]

oh always holding puzzlebox for dm? even with just 2set

[dawn kelp]

Did something change with raidbots already? simming like 2.5k less

[royal lantern]

you hold if it the fight timers are good for holding

if the boss dies in 4-5 min, hold for the 4min DM window

boss is 6min? use exsang and box on cd etc......

[flint tusk]

i'm so happy i finally got my puzzle box.
been stuck with the dathea boon and world quest trinkets since week one >.<

still keeping the boon obviously as it's aoe is nut. but on mobility fights always relining on shadowstep and cloak isn't the most fun. when you get one shot

[cloud moat]

Sim opener logic got fucked

[balmy condor]

you don't play exsang with 2 set

[loud brook]

I hope poison bomb gets a qol change, cant tell you how many times it wiffs because a tank has to kite mobs or it procs just at the edge of other mobs

something like a hits all targets in combat effect

[balmy condor]

Sims are lower today due to a backend change that caused some APL logic to fail. This will be fixed in the next nightly. Using Weekly instead of Nightly should clear it up temporarily

[dusty zenith]

you say to use puzzle for Dm but Oxi says in Pin to use puzzle before DM

does it matter that much?

[balmy condor]

what

I said to hold puzzle for dm

oxi pin says to puzzle with dm

[ebon notch]

Why did the simulation men take my DPS away? :<

[dusty zenith]

ok nm I read it wrong

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[rocky ruin]

a warrior and a monk passed to give me my 4 set in a pug raid 🥹

actual heroes

[upper spear]

does that one rogue still make youtube content? the guy with the scottish accent who sounded like a dwarf lmao

[balmy condor]

not really no

he got a life

[upper spear]

damn

unlucky

[balmy condor]

most of his stuff was a little unhinged

so

it's fine

[upper spear]

his Assassin guides were next level in Nyalotha

[balmy condor]

oh no

not the nyalotha assassin guides

the darkest time of his youtube career

I mean depends on what proper means to you

there's plenty of proper youtube guides

even with some outdating

[upper spear]

i like videos cuz im lazy, and then am able to just adjust to the RNG

[balmy condor]

there's varying levels of outdating though

there's like "this entire thing is useless"

or "there's a new 0.3% optimization"

[frank stone]

last question for me today but

do you always go KB ST for rasz?

[balmy condor]

yes

[frank stone]

it feels so weird compared to dtb

[balmy condor]

yeah I mean respectfully if you're watching a youtube guide you're not playing the game at a level where a 3% difference matters

[upper spear]

@frank stone there so much down time on that fight and damage chekc windows, i dont see why not

[balmy condor]

so I think some outdating as long as it's not major is perfectly fine

I've helped the marcelianonline guys with their spec guides in the past

those were pretty good

sanctum and stuff

they held for a long time

[upper spear]

i cant stand that guys voice

[balmy condor]

I'd consider those a success

but it's hard to get anything quality out

[balmy condor]

at least the info is right, cant say the same about your Scottish friend

and that ain't really a jab at him

[upper spear]

which video has you irked about him?

[balmy condor]

he just liked to color outside the lines a lot

[balmy condor]

any assassination guide he's made in the last 4 years

nyalotha was especially bad

he mellowed out for shadowlands for the most part

but man

nyalotha was such a bad time

[upper spear]

his parses seemed to say otherwise?

[balmy condor]

parses and correct information in guides are two entirely separate things

your inability to connect the dots on that is troubling

[timber meadow]

i assume if my RL wanted me to shiv every tank slam it'd be fine with dtb but not a thing with kingsbane?

on terros

[balmy condor]

I spent my entire time in 8.3 in here dispelling bad info from his guides

[drifting cloud]

lol

[balmy condor]

"34% crit" lives on in the rogue community as an eternal meme

[drifting cloud]

it doesnt work

[balmy condor]

because of those videos

[timber meadow]

shiving the tank slam doesn't work?

[balmy condor]

why would shiving anything matter

[drifting cloud]

because of the tooltip for concentrated version of atro

[balmy condor]

you gonna enrage dispel the boss?

[timber meadow]

iono RL said it lessens the dmg i guess based on some logs he was looking at

[balmy condor]

RL is wrong

atrophic isn't buffed by shiv

[upper spear]

ya obviously parses and correct info are not the same thing, my only point is that he was getting big dam on meters, so at face value he doesnt seem to be the crack smoker you make him out to be lol

hes just a dude i enjoyed wathcing, i think i have a lot less emotion invested into this than u

[regal sable]

very nice

cool and good even

[balmy condor]

the core of the guides were always fine, because it was basically just a copy paste of any guide available at the time. But he throws his personal tips on top, and people follow them, and it ends up fucking them over because the personal tips are actually just wrong

[marble hemlock]

Probably because you didn't have to clean up misinformation for months

[drifting cloud]

his nya parses btw xd big dam

[balmy condor]

of course you have less emotion invested into this than me, I've spent uncountable amount of hours trying to fix bad info over the last many years

[marble hemlock]

When people spread nonsense it tends to get people annoyed

[drifting cloud]

literally worse than mine and you should definetly not read guides made by me

[upper spear]

who would you guys recommend keeping up with these days for rogue content / guides. things of that nature.

[balmy condor]

on youtube?

[upper spear]

yt, twitter, twitch

w/e

[drifting cloud]

dont think theres pve youtube guides

other than maybe some very quick overviews where youd find more info in text based guides on here

[balmy condor]

yeh

[brave blaze]

i heard they are giving windfury totem a little buff to us 2 1h users. is that in the sims yet or no?

[drifting cloud]

huh

[balmy condor]

you mean..... the offhand miss penalty that got removed like 4 months ago?

[brave blaze]

ahh nvm its a 10.0.5 datamine

windfury applies to both mh and oh

[balmy condor]

its..... been doing that

[drifting cloud]

it already does that

[balmy condor]

for all of shadowlands actually

[brave blaze]

hmm i wonder why its in the 10.0.5 patch notes then

https://www.wowhead.com/news/patch-10-0-5-ptr-datamined-class-tuning-build-47481-feral-druid-vengeance-dh-330874

[balmy condor]

datamining is weird

[brave blaze]

ya true

[balmy condor]

oh

that's a tooltip fix

[brave blaze]

ahhh got it

[drifting cloud]

@solid chasm I see u

[balmy condor]

this guy rolls up and hits you with a cringe react

what do you do

[ebon notch]

Hide

[drifting cloud]

I google who kenjiro tsuda is

[ebon notch]

He got a massive bussy

[balmy condor]

real

should rename yourself realer

[drifting cloud]

stealthi just bullied him too much ngl

[ebon notch]

Realz?

[ebon notch]

What did stealthi do

[solid chasm]

what

im so confused

also yeah stealthi bodied me

[misty furnace]

im trying to practice my opener on a dummy
how do i make serrated bone knife stop

[balmy condor]

fly away

[misty furnace]

ty

[outer cairn]

AP dispells enrage timers?

[balmy condor]

[outer cairn]

Boss is going to enrage.
Rogue with AP: "Hold my beer"

[balmy condor]

I mean doesn't have to be amp

shiv just dispels enrage

[outer cairn]

yeah. told my team. was told that 5 soothes with one shiv was broken

[balmy condor]

did you tell them you lose damage running that talent

doesn't seem too broken now

[near nacelle]

!neck

[prisma monolith]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923750073499648/1055055765980844093/image.png

[outer cairn]

I'll be gone when it comes out so I won't even get to see how it performs

in other news, i got a puzzle box to drop, but the ring still eludes me. had a pally tank get it and he couldn't trade. hate this dungeon

[misty furnace]

What does the element mean in that picture
We aren't proccing ele dmg right?

[balmy condor]

the element is which stat it procs

each gem is associated to an element

[dim yacht]

peoples thoughts on how sin rogue will fare in m+ with the patch? i feel like the extra energy gain from going dtb/ic could be pretty huge in aoe

i find my energy starts to have some massive lows once my IC bleeds fall off, having dashing would make a massive difference in that regard

[balmy condor]

I don't think it changes anything

[dim yacht]

whys that?

[balmy condor]

it's basically just replacing zold and KB with poison bomb/dashing and DTB

in sims the two seem to nearly cancel each other out

if anything we're just doing less aoe now

[misty furnace]

should i just going off the fuu sheet and not wowhead
because the ST DTB opener has exsan
but its not in the picture thingy

[balmy condor]

and got some single target

[dim yacht]

really? the biggest difference i noticed in practice with dtb vs IC is that on dtb i dont run out of energy ever on big pulls, never need to refresh bleeds

but cant really run dashing/IC right now, lose too much single

with dashing in the mix, energy wont be an issue on giant pulls at all, and i can just keep blasting the entire time

[balmy condor]

the recommended poison builds for general use don't take exsang. If you're playing dtb with exsang once you get your 4 piece, you'd want to do follow this

[dim yacht]

i feel like in practice at least, itll feel a lot better

[balmy condor]

yeah except you're not spreading bleeds

so

that's kind of an issue

it doesn't matter if you have infinite energy if the damage is less

[misty furnace]

im using the recommend build on fuu sheet.
do not have 4p

[dim yacht]

in giant pulls, is it really worth bothering spreading bleeds outside CT?

seems just better to be spammig CT/keeping envenom up

[balmy condor]

if you don't have 4p, you should probably consider poison dtb

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[balmy condor]

there's comparisons between builds here

take the imports

[misty furnace]

[balmy condor]

and then compare them on your own character

highly suggest doing this

[misty furnace]

this is nice work
ty for the work you do

[balmy condor]

my pleasure

[dim yacht]

assuming single target between ic/kb now and ic/dtb after patch is comparable, its just a straight buff to our aoe it seems. we do lose out on zoldycks, but the IC bleeds have fallen off by that point, so im not sure how impactful thatll be vs having an extra poison, and never running out of energy on large pulls where garrote/ruptures arent worth the globals

[balmy condor]

it's not a straight buff to aoe though

we're losing zold

not spreading ruptures is an issue because scent exists

[dim yacht]

hmmm

thats true

but is it worth it at 3%

[balmy condor]

I mean

yeah kinda

[dim yacht]

guess it depends on the pull size

rupture is 28 seconds assuming were 4cping it, so youre only losing what, 17 seconds of scent? i mean its definitely impactful, but i feel like by the time i have meaningful scent back up

IC is gonna be back up anyway, if the pack isnt already dead

rupturing for scent doesnt seem very worthwhile in a large pull of 8+

[misty furnace]

i realized i was so fortunate to get the seal of diurna from the heroic chest last week

[balmy condor]

sure but you can't just look in a vacuum and say aoe is buffed because of it

it ain't that easy

[dim yacht]

yeah youre right, that was too broad of a statement

so ill just say im interested to see how it changes things. im not convinced it wont change anything

[balmy condor]

numbers right now at least are saying it doesn't change much

[dim yacht]

dont sims also say dtb/ic are close in m+?

but thats not true at all

[upbeat birch]

!talents

[balmy condor]

right now IC+KB is ahead of DTB in m+

[dim yacht]

i mean yeah, but dont sims have them semi close together?

when in reality ic/kb blows dtb out of the water

[balmy condor]

does it?

I wouldn't really say that

if you're comparing IC and DTB on academy maybe, sure

[magic vine]

i have sort of shit gear (and no tier) but ic/kb sims like like +3k compared to either dtb

[balmy condor]

that's quite an outlier dungeon where every pull is like 35 mobs

but DTB in a "normal" dungeon is super comparable

[magic vine]

i do have a puzzle box so maybe that effects the comparison? dunno but its like not close at all

[outer cairn]

finally the ring drops. have to upgrade it 6 times, but fuck it. my valor cap will be an additional 3000 by the time i get back so

or its in my vault.......

[dim yacht]

i think it might depend on the level of key too. IC sucks ass when you cant get restealths, but after having played dtb for a while extensively, up until nearly 2800 IO, and comparing it now to IC, its not even close

once you get to higher level keys, tanks start understanding how to chain pull properly

and do larger pulls besides

[balmy condor]

yeh if tanks are pulling bigger the aoe difference is going to be noticeable

[dim yacht]

i think thats what it comes down to, whether youre playing high keys or not

i actually found dtb to be better than IC for tree boss, and the trash around it

the pull is so long, and you get so much more energy out of dtb. then on the boss, you can get way more envenoms into the boss with dtb

still wouldnt play dtb in academy over IC on any high key though

[hoary isle]

huh

three teardrops fell out of my left eye

[balmy condor]

I don't get it

you restored a puzzle box

[hoary isle]

vendored it a week or so ago thinking it useless

been trying to pug AA this week

[balmy condor]

I haven't seen one all expansion

[wind condor]

I got mine 2 nights ago after a 59 minute 60+ death 17

Worth every minute of that pain

[mortal venture]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[gusty mirage]

I told you to invite me

and I'll funnel you

[balmy condor]

I would

but the issue isn't getting people to trade

its getting it to drop in the first place

[gusty mirage]

I have the special touch

[mortal venture]

[strange python]

i think ive legit seen like 10 of them drop and ive done academy like 15 times tops

[charred mortar]

Guys, where do I fit Box in ST and AoE openers? This cast feels a bit awkward to me :/

[outer cairn]

!pin

[outer cairn]

#assassination message

[balmy condor]

does !pins still work

!pins

oh

guess it doesn't

[outer cairn]

i wish faq did

[balmy condor]

hm

[charred mortar]

Thank you ^^

[balmy condor]

maybe I can jank something in

idk how useful it would be

[outer cairn]

maybe if you also put a "Read the entire faq first here then ask questions." comment with it

or make a !spam and it just throws the faq link and all the guides at them

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[jaunty lotus]

I've got 3 puzzleboxes so far, second was traded away and third was DEed

But I play outlaw and was annoyed I always got the shitty trinket

[dark token]

also had 4 puzzleboxes

my most common AA drop

[balmy condor]

I've seen 6 rings

[spring moth]

can someone help me analyze my warcraft log? I'm new to it and I am not sure exactly what am I looking for

[sturdy briar]

does Atrophic Poison stack on raid?

[inner temple]

like two rogues stacking it? no

with devo aura? yes

[sturdy briar]

Thank you!

[formal cliff]

How's assassination on m+ guys? Last time I played it was shadowlands s1

[lilac knoll]

Solid, not as good as outlaw tho

[formal cliff]

I don't like playing outlaw tbh

Hate pirates and rng lol

[shut owl]

Just play sin then :3

[formal cliff]

Gearing towards sin

I love that spec, but playing into high target count is painful

[gloomy scroll]

I've been playing sin/sub. Sub's been pretty good in M+ for me for high target counts.

[formal cliff]

Also never got a clean enough plater to keep track of dots lmao

[green juniper]

I am a new player started with sin and this is so true..

also I dont like crimson tempest which I should get into

[formal cliff]

Crimson tempest is bae

At least it was when I last played

🤓

[grim tree]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light: http://tiny.cc/2bq0vz / Dark: http://tiny.cc/xdu1vz

[sullen hedge]

should i combine shiv and thistle into a macro?

or how i would even do that

[balmy condor]

You should not

[balmy condor]

And it still keeps up

Crazy spec

[plain onyx]

I've been there, combined Shiv and Thistle Tea in one macro just to avoid pressing a lot of keybinds. Ended up losing Mastery buff where i don't need it.

[balmy condor]

I mean it also just wastes thistle tea

The energy as well

[plain onyx]

exactly 👆

[knotty vapor]

sorry if this was already discussed, but does this mean most m+ builds will no longer run KB? I loved the KB + IC combo, very satisfying single target on bosses

like I'm happy about the cleave buff for sure, but bleh

[sullen hedge]

oh, i thought you wanted to thistle on every shiv

every one that you can at least

[dim yacht]

there arent a lot of people actually playing sin at high keys right now, so heres a little insight. sin is not as good as the other specs in pretty much any situation. i think you can make some cases for sin court of stars and shadowmoon burial grounds where our ST might shine a bit more, but otherwise we just dont stand up to the other classes right now.

if youre playing at a mid level (16s or below) youll do just fine, but you might find IC build doesnt help you much just due to how the tank pulls, having bad timing on chain pulls or not being able to restealth is very detrimental to IC build (and dtb too to be fair, but not as much), so depending if youre pugging or not, you might find dtb works out better for you, hard to say.

in higher keys, sin still isnt keeping up with other classes, but tanks start to pull larger and also chain pull more effectively in ways that dont dick you over as much. IC starts pulling ahead here, and while you wont stand up to other classes at your same skill level, its pretty passable even at the top 0.1%, and having an aoe silence on almost every pull is pretty nice, i rate it.

[dim yacht]

i cant call myself an expert, but as i just said to nightfall, there really arent that many people playing sin in high keys at all right now. last i checked, theres less than 20 sin rogues world wide timing 20s that arent shadowmoon/court of stars. so gonna say right now, im not necessarily an expert by any means, im just one of the few people actually pushing high keys as sin. my opinions are also centered around high keys, and might not apply to lower keys.

i personally think dtb/ic will have the highest aoe output overall, but ic/ap will have more burst, with ap having the obvious benefit of aoe soothe during enraging weeks. ic/kb imo would still be viable at least, youre basically trading blindside + zoldycks for poison bomb, dashing, and amp poison. i dont think the trade off is bad either, and i think dashing is really valuable in large pulls where it might not be worth it to apply rupture for scent of blood. in lower keys idk how good ic is to begin with just because pulls will be smaller and you might not get the restealth. selthian does have a discord where he welcomes questions, and hes near 3k as a sin rogue right now - so im sure he could give you a lot more insight if you asked him

[knotty vapor]

wonderful answer, thanks for the info friend

[dim yacht]

np, hopefully the changes favor your playstyle

[knotty vapor]

🙏

[quartz marlin]

Was assa rogue bad in shadowlands?

[balmy condor]

Not really

[quartz marlin]

That’s what I hear a lot of like guides or videos say and I really wanna try it haha

[balmy condor]

But why shadowlands?

[dim yacht]

it was bad in shadowlands in m+ specifically

but other than season 1 pre buffs, i dont think sin had any issues

if youre looking at videos/guides from season 1, yeah theyre probably gonna paint them in a pretty bad light

but also why is how sin was doing in shadowlands relevant if you want to try out sin now

[hoary plover]

Does anyone know if Animacharged combo points counts as 7 combo points for poison bomb? So chance of getting posion bomb while using envenom with an animacharged cp is 56% (7*8) ? Or is it still just the exact amount of cp consumed? So envenoming with a 2cp animacharge is still just 16% chance of poison bomb

[balmy condor]

Yes, it does

[hoary plover]

Thanks!

[jagged wind]

anyone got a custom apl for target dummy parse without vanish?

[balmy condor]

what

[strange python]

Heya can some 1 explain me how to use kriss ? i mean when u open with deathmark u use 2 kriss , but after during the fight ?

is it viable to use ? or no

[balmy condor]

double what

[strange python]

can i link 1 log and some1 tell me whats is bad ?

[balmy condor]

wtf is kriss

[balmy condor]

oh shiv

[strange python]

sorry ^^ french name

i only log 94 on terros when i do all like i think i have to

so ...

maybe gear or idk

[balmy condor]

if you have 1 charge you use on cooldown, if you have 2 charges you hold one charge for deathmark, if you play kingsbane you hold both charges for kingsbane

[strange python]

I play sustained

i try to refresh my dots , like rupture/garot , and put shiv after

and save 1 for deathmark

but idk

[peak raptor]

Shiv leaves a debuff which increases nature damage. Isn't the deal to have it active when you apply a strong nature damage dot?

[balmy condor]

with kingsbane yeah

otherwise you're basically just playing it for uptime

it's a debuff but it's got like a 35% uptime

so it's just a poison buffer

[misty holly]

You must be doing something seriously wrong to have logs like that. Did you remember to apply poison?

[peak raptor]

Does it has to be active before applying a nature dmg or does it increase already applied dots?

[strange python]

yeah

can i link a log ?

so u tell me ?

[balmy condor]

it increases all nature damage for those 8 seconds regardless of when it was applied

[peak raptor]

Bam, that's convenient!

[strange python]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XTk98h6nvqQVdYPj#fight=10&type=damage-done&source=58

[balmy condor]

you parsed an 87?

what's the issue?

[misty holly]

If you're not first, you're last.

[hoary plover]

99 or bust

[strange python]

was 94

[jagged wind]

sorry whispyr, was trying to find if there was line of code to put on raidbots custom options that it dosnt use vanish in the sim

[strange python]

with time it 86 now

[balmy condor]

but.... why?

[balmy condor]

okay so it was EVEN higher?

why are we worried about a 94

[jagged wind]

to see how much of my dummy rotation is of the sim

[strange python]

94 HC

i mean

i should do 99+

with my 409 ilvl

[balmy condor]

run a log and compare it that way

[balmy condor]

according to who

[strange python]

see

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/hyjal/lnshiwuu#boss=2639

i sim at 74k dps

i did 67 and log 54 on MM terros

but i have 100% uptime on terros i mean i have 0 mechanic to do

so idk what i do wrong im main outlaw actually thats why i ask

maybe some main assa can explain me

[tough ferry]

question lads - if I'm 1 combo point off full points what do I do

use it anyway or fok like in legion

[balmy condor]

you finish

[tough ferry]

you just use evis?

[balmy condor]

or rupture if you have to refresh rupture

it don't matter

if you're 1 from max you finish

[tough ferry]

ok and if 2 and no echo up?

always just do another mut?

[balmy condor]

you would generate

[tough ferry]

ez

just wanted to confirm

exactly what I've been doing

[hoary plover]

The easiest way to go about it is probably just thinking of cp as a resource you absolutely don't want to waste. So if you're in danger of overflowing you consume instead

[iron escarp]

Heya guys, i sim less assass than i do sub ST which i find odd as got a boat load of crit and quite a few bis for assas.... surely assas should be higher..

Any idea why that could be? ill link sim in a sec.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wDiYKaaosvGzpTXVPvhm2i

I sim for 65k St on sub..

[strange python]

maybe stats

actually sub is not bad

u play assa for more dps only if the boss is long after 30%

to have the exec phase longer

ask whispyr but for me its like that

sub is not really bad ST

its even

[iron escarp]

Yeah we are pushing last few in hc then mythic so wanted to get assass sorted.

[balmy condor]

with the caveat that we don't play around seal fate though

because technically that's cp you waste

and that's okay

[balmy condor]

with only 2 piece you're losing the opportunity to play a better build with bleed dtb, which is completely reasonable, there's nothing wrong with poison dtb, but you're just not quite optimized for assassination atm

subtlety has been very close, or higher than assassination in sims

so having some profiles that are lower or higher is completely reasonable

assassination is better in execute by a good amount, but it's been shown that the execute just isn't important

[vestal wren]

assassination should be quite noticably higher with the ns bug implemented

[balmy condor]

ah yeh that's true

[vestal wren]

assassinaiton tops at ~91k dps, subtlety ~90k

subtlety goes down to ~88k probably with ns bug

so roughly 3.5% behind

[polar gull]

once we get 4pc we go bleed exg dtb?

[balmy condor]

ye

[vestal wren]

assassinaiton also has the advantage of benefiting from longer execute, so numbers would just go up if your guild is not ending the fight fast

[final shadow]

It feels painful to not have venom rush in that build 😦

[balmy condor]

I honestly think it's mostly in your head

not taking venom rush is about 3 apm slower

that's not really a noticeable difference

[final shadow]

It just feels really slow, looking at my energy bar

but I guess you are right

[balmy condor]

you're going from 57 apm to 54

[vestal wren]

i remember assassinaiton at below 50 apm

good times

[balmy condor]

I remember assassination below 40

[vestal wren]

was it even below 40 start of bfa?

[balmy condor]

yeh

it was below 40 until alacrity

[vestal wren]

oh, thought it was ~40

[balmy condor]

and then legion

was like

35

[regal hamlet]

bring me back

[rigid rain]

!puzzlebox

Do i use puzzlebox before First rupture or deathmark ?

[balmy condor]

dm

[drifting cosmos]

Legion sin #1

You don’t need skills you need to pray pb god

But jokes aside, still quite enjoy legion sin

[sullen hedge]

am i crazy or is the opener a lot more difficult to pull off for assassin this expansion? and honestly same for sub

[drifting cosmos]

Sin got more buttons than ever

Need more practice 😀

[sullen hedge]

im trying to figure it out on a dummy and midway through i forget what comes next lmao

[lament pawn]

2nd monitor,the image posted of the rotation and you are set

[sullen hedge]

only one monitor

[analog oasis]

sin pay to win confirmed

[sullen hedge]

fr :[

[lament pawn]

U might step into some mechanics looking 2nd monitor XD

[dim yacht]

what is the ns bug

[vestal wren]

was 50% for assassination, not 12%

[teal bloom]

!whispyr

[prisma monolith]

Whispyr's Simulation Spreadsheet: https://tinyurl.com/292m89ev

[dim yacht]

isnt ns pretty useless for sin in general regardless?

doesnt work on garrote, you open with garrote

so youre never getting any benefit from it anyway

[vestal wren]

dance is not great for sin

for a similar reason it is not good for sub

you need to take a lot of shit to get shadow dance

find weakness is useless on both

[dim yacht]

right, but ns itself does literally nothing for sin afaik?

its a straight up empty talent slot

[vestal wren]

it would make everything do more damage during shadow dance

[dim yacht]

oh

okay yeah i see your point now

[vestal wren]

and from stealth/vanish

but even with 50%

it was not worth to use

[dim yacht]

well the issue is, you its only durnig stealth. so when dance isnt up, if you vanish its only gonna count fr one ability anyway unless youre using subterfuge too

and since we garrote from stealth, that means ns is still giving us nothing outside of dance

[vestal wren]

it is also not a snapshot

so if you vanish-rupture

you basically wasted the damage amp

[dim yacht]

yeah so its useless basically

[vestal wren]

it was a snapshot before

it isn't useless

[dim yacht]

ns seems like it could be good in aoe maybe with shrouded

if it snapshotted

[vestal wren]

but it requires shadow dance to be useful

[dim yacht]

*mostly useless

[vestal wren]

and shadow dance is not powerful enough to give assassination enough value

keep in mind you need to spend so many points to go down

[dim yacht]

yeah

which is unfortunate

[subtle tundra]

oh yea just noticed they did ptr changes and nothing for right side class tree for assa

[vestal wren]

like all of this

[dim yacht]

if ns snapshotted, thatd be super lit for for IC/shrouded suffo

[subtle tundra]

i love not having any choice in my talent tree

🙂

[dim yacht]

well, i think well have choices after patch in spec tree

what do you think varas, for m+. youre one of the few people doing high keys as sin

[vestal wren]

nighstalker (2 points)
improved ambush (1 point) --- only talent that gives you a bit of dps here
soothing (1 point)
Find weakness (2 points)
so 6 point total to just reach Dance
Dance is for this a 7 point investment

[subtle tundra]

boohoo now i can choose between passives

i care about the actives

thats what make the game interesting

[vestal wren]

and you can get a lot more for 7 points in other parts of the tree

[dim yacht]

yeah agreed fuu

[subtle tundra]

in 10 0 5 i wont even play kb in m +

cause it competes with dtb

[dim yacht]

yeah, but what do you think is worth taking with ic

ic/dtb?

[subtle tundra]

idk

[dim yacht]

and ap on enraging?

[subtle tundra]

ap will get buffed

[dim yacht]

thats kinda what im thinking

[subtle tundra]

and zoldyck goes hard in aoe too

[vestal wren]

probably, hard to rpedict

[dim yacht]

yeah, but i feel like dashing is pretty nice

[subtle tundra]

its not very good in m+

esp since we're bleed build

[dim yacht]

idk if i agree with that. youre still applying poisons everywhere in big pulls, so you keep your energy up all the time

[vestal wren]

was the best simming sin tree

for dungeon slice

[subtle tundra]

buddy

the only reason you didnt go ic dtb was cause you literallly cant

[vestal wren]

yes

[dim yacht]

yes, i know that

[vestal wren]

but 10.0.5 you have 1 more point

because dashing is now cheaper

[subtle tundra]

thats what im saying

[dim yacht]

im saying choosing between ic/ap or ic/dbt

[vestal wren]

(well is a 2 point note)

[dim yacht]

ap has the benefit of zold, but i think youre sleeping on having dashing if you go ic/dbt

[subtle tundra]

also if you play kb in 10 0 5 it will suck to play amp

i loooove changing poisons

[dim yacht]

i mean im not talking about kb at all here

im talking ic/dbt vs ic/ap

[subtle tundra]

WELL I WANT TO PLAY KB

I DONT WANT THE BORING PASSIVES

[dim yacht]

i dont think ap is a boring passive

[subtle tundra]

its an annoying passive

u right

[vestal wren]

so you like the tree atm better?

[subtle tundra]

holding dps cd on raging weeks

[versed mica]

so how does CoS ring work nowadays? is it actual auto attack damage increase, or is it still "attack power"?

[subtle tundra]

no i think it gets better

[vestal wren]

agree

also new ability, is always hype

[dim yacht]

itd be weird, but idk maybe you could make a case for kb/ic and take twist the knife instead of amp. probably not, but at least with twist you can spend more cp on CT instead of envenoms

even if its not necessarily the ideal build

[subtle tundra]

ap has to be insane to be worth playing

[dim yacht]

i agree, 20% isnt enough

so i think ic/dtb will be the new meta

[subtle tundra]

imagine your ST without kb 💀

[dim yacht]

well, itll be propped up a bit with amp tbf if running ic/dtb

i feel like having ic/dtb will make sin flow a lot better

instead of this awkward part where all your bleeds start falling off and suddenly youre energy starved

and have to start putting out ruptures instead of CT

[subtle tundra]

they have to make ap strong enough to be better than dtb on small cleave basically

which is a big ask

[dim yacht]

yeah basically

maybe if it applied to more than 5 targets

but that doesnt solve small cleave

i feel overall the changes are positive though, and im looking forward to it

[oak sky]

you know we energy cap at like 4 targets without dashing right??

[dim yacht]

yes, but when youre doing 20s, you get lots and lots of big pulls

so not having to reapply ruptures at all is a big plus

i dont think its worth reapplying ruptures for scent of blood in large pulls

and with dashing, you wont have to. you just keep spamming CT

[subtle tundra]

😬

so you want even more ct spam?

🤏🏻

[oak sky]

he just thinks its good idk if he said thats what he wants

[dim yacht]

well, the playstyle difference is that at the moment, you start with your big stealthed IC, get your CT rolling and keep envenom up. then once your ruptures start to fall off, you need to reapply to get energy back. thats a lot of gcds

if you dont, you get energy starved. between keeping CT and envenom up and getting your ruptures up, by the time youre ready to start blasting CT again for damage, the pack is almost dead

with dashing, its gonna be open with your big IC, then just keep blasting CT + envenom uptime until dead, which i feel flows better than big burst > down time > pack dead by time youre ready again

[oak sky]

unless sims prioritize scent

[subtle tundra]

when my ruptures start falling off i just do fok rupture on like 3+ cp

[oak sky]

which

[meager granite]

Or you fish for PB procs

[oak sky]

is definitely a possibility

[dim yacht]

i dont think its worth going for scent uptime on large pulls. and no, you never fish for PB procs

[oak sky]

i mean

it doesnt really matter what anyone thinks until we have sims

[dim yacht]

ill trust what happens in practice more than sims

sims arent everything when it comes to m+ at least

[oak sky]

you definitely have the right to play however you want

[dim yacht]

im just giving my opinion, and i respect everyone elses as well

theres so few sin rogues pushing high keys that there isnt really much information going around to begin with

[subtle tundra]

my gear is so bad i get 1 shotted by random mechanics in high keys rn

[oak sky]

usually players that push the highest keys play the best specs

because they care about being good

thats why you see fewer sin rogues, since even though its good its not optimal

[meager granite]

Blame tanks that don't understand how the class works and having to work X times harder for worst results

[bleak sky]

Skill issue really

[flint tusk]

So has anyone got any recommendations for M+
been dipping my toe into it with sub as i'm more comfortable with it.

But i want to give sin a go now. so it KB+IC the best option for optimal AoE / ST?
or is DTB the dark horse?

[subtle tundra]

in 22 nokund on 3rd boss i died from the direct hit of gale arrows
330k hit full hp

[dim yacht]

i know that. im just saying with so few people actually playing it, there isnt really a lot of info available on what is/isnt optimal in keys. no disrespect to those knowledgeable about the spec, but i feel that those who are actually actively playing sin in high keys can give more credible information

[bleak sky]

how many stacks did it have

[subtle tundra]

none

i think

[bleak sky]

wtf

it should not do that much damage

it definitely had stacks

[dim yacht]

yeah nok tyrannical hurts like a motherfucker

[bleak sky]

upload a log and check

[subtle tundra]

noone else was in danger