assassination

[uncut echo]

@balmy condor does fatal concoction work on envenom?

[gilded swallow]

Sorry :'D

[balmy condor]

because 6 seconds of poisons clapping with fok is pretty gud

it's just fok buff

[balmy condor]

no

[uncut echo]

Ty

[simple gulch]

Fair enough

[obsidian parrot]

how is assassinatin in m+ in beta?

[balmy condor]

good

[obsidian parrot]

feels good?

[simple gulch]

Goodge

[obsidian parrot]

i come from outlaw

[balmy condor]

[uncut echo]

Probably best it's felt

[simple gulch]

True

[fleet imp]

You envenom multi target to get damage from FoK while keeping CT up

[balmy condor]

when in doubt just

[simple gulch]

What bussy said

[fleet imp]

So basically you never braindead spam CT?

[obsidian parrot]

last time i checked, was pretty hard to dot all adds in a5/8 pack

[balmy condor]

yeah

that's kinda how dots work

innit

[uncut echo]

Indiscriminate carnage

Btw

[gusty mirage]

[simple gulch]

What’s a good race for sin

[balmy condor]

I mean you probably do in like 75000 target aoe

[uncut echo]

[fallen arch]

75000 target

[balmy condor]

pull every dragonflight dungeon at once

[fallen arch]

dracthyr

[balmy condor]

then spam CT

[obsidian parrot]

still haste first stat?

[simple gulch]

Whisper, yo

[balmy condor]

crit mast

[uncut echo]

Nope, crit mastery

[fleet imp]

Exactly, so in a real world where packs are like 5-8 mobs, you never spam CT but just reapply and in the middle you envenom

[obsidian parrot]

nice

[subtle tundra]

I do that

[balmy condor]

you would spam between envenoms

[subtle tundra]

I definetly spam ct on the big pull in academy

[fleet imp]

But only if your targets have the evenom already

[subtle tundra]

The what

[balmy condor]

get CT up, envenom gives you fok poison buff and slice uptime, you spam CT a little, throw in an envenom, refresh a rupture or wahtever, CT a little, throw in another envenom, CT spam a little

[subtle tundra]

The fucki g what

[balmy condor]

envenom is a buff on you

there is no debuff on envenom

[simple gulch]

What are the top dps races for sin?

Help

[balmy condor]

orc dark iron

[dense herald]

I’m curious to see if IC is the pick for any of the mythic bosses

[subtle tundra]

It is

Council

[simple gulch]

Oh fuck never mind

[balmy condor]

coucnil for sure

[simple gulch]

Something else

[honest vessel]

pick what you like

races are fake

[balmy condor]

next best options are anything else

[uncut echo]

Why change race for dps

[simple gulch]

I’m undead

[uncut echo]

?????

[balmy condor]

great

[gilded swallow]

I think I read that races are really marginal?

[fleet imp]

This is the best non opener aoe recap 🤝

[honest vessel]

yuh

[uncut echo]

Because they are

[balmy condor]

orc and dark iron are sorta ahead by a couple tenths of a percent

[simple gulch]

Undead rogue best rogue don’t @ me

[balmy condor]

because big burst

and orc racial burst

and dark iron racial burst

[uncut echo]

Then why ask bis

[balmy condor]

and that means burst

and burst

ya feel?

but other than that play whatever the fuck you want

[honest vessel]

burst = burst

[simple gulch]

Idk I just wanted to get an idea

[honest vessel]

[subtle kiln]

good morning crazy town

[uncut echo]

Burst also != burst

[simple gulch]

Thanks btw whisper

[uncut echo]

[balmy condor]

np I'm procrastinating hyperlinking this guide

I love hyperlinking a google doc for 35 minutes

[honest vessel]

oof

[simple gulch]

Undead is kinda looking boring to rn so I was thinking of maybe making another race

[gusty mirage]

Finish the guide

[subtle tundra]

I think Tauren is bis

[simple gulch]

Like blood eld

Elf

[honest vessel]

belf is cool

purge is good sometimes

[gilded swallow]

Panda rogue gang

[subtle tundra]

Fattestcow goes hard

[balmy condor]

bro you see this shit? every single ability needs to be hyperlinked

[subtle kiln]

carry on wayward son

[balmy condor]

I don't wanna do that shit

[honest vessel]

panda is the wrong answer but that's ok

[simple gulch]

Female panda

[gilded swallow]

👌

[dense herald]

Whisp did you get to the bottom of why sims like shiv after KB or nah

[gusty mirage]

I’ll do it

Let me at it

[simple gulch]

Remember Taoshi?

[balmy condor]

they just don't really care

dunno

[gilded swallow]

Taoshi my beloved

[fleet imp]

Rogues guides are a tier level on their own. I played Monk a bit and followed the guide, got /w by team matea, wtf is that build

[vernal adder]

the panda?

[balmy condor]

Queen Thickums

[simple gulch]

:

[balmy condor]

got me craving some chow mein ya feel

[simple gulch]

😳

[balmy condor]

I'll slurp her noodles

[honest vessel]

fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck

[subtle tundra]

Mrw there are no weights around the leg press and I have to bust my back carrying 20kg plates from all over the gym. This is important to assa gameplay

[simple gulch]

What dps racial does panda have

[honest vessel]

food buff better

[gilded swallow]

Pretty little, the food buff

[simple gulch]

That’s it?

[uncut echo]

[subtle tundra]

Food good

[simple gulch]

Ok

[subtle tundra]

Goes hard

[gilded swallow]

The palm strike I actually find myself use a lot though

[honest vessel]

it was the best in early s1 iirc

[balmy condor]

you're carrying 15 20kg plates around? god damn

[fleet imp]

LMAO the (note) on exang opener. Small but valuable

[simple gulch]

Panda has some unique combat animations

Do they have it for rogue?

[uncut echo]

Yes

[fleet imp]

I couldn't sort it on my own the snapshotting stuff couple days ago

[simple gulch]

For example war has different animations on bloodthirst for each spec

And panda has a really good one

I wonder if there’s the same on rogue

[balmy condor]

the amount of times I have written "DO NOT EXSANG DURING DEATHMARK" into these damn guides man

[simple gulch]

Wait, you do not exsang during DM?

[uncut echo]

That nonbo needs to be taken out imho

[balmy condor]

see

[gilded swallow]

lmao

[balmy condor]

this is why

[uncut echo]

HAHAHAHA

[simple gulch]

[uncut echo]

Deathmark is a bleed, in case you are serious

[simple gulch]

I never saw the guide

But why not

[gilded swallow]

Better add another one

[fleet imp]

LMAO

[uncut echo]

Exsang bleed, halves dm duration

[simple gulch]

Oh

Makes sense

[uncut echo]

[simple gulch]

Lol

Sorry

[uncut echo]

You're ok!

[honest vessel]

lol

[balmy condor]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/124169701881282560/1036720446634213376/20220801_223206.gif

[simple gulch]

Lmao

So you use it after dm on pull for example?

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

this

[timid cloud]

I’ll blow your back out, pal.

[honest vessel]

pretty c:

[simple gulch]

2 garrote?

[balmy condor]

sneak peak at FAQ don't tell anyone

[subtle tundra]

Exsang gaming

[simple gulch]

3 even lol

[balmy condor]

yah

we're garrote enjoyers

[subtle tundra]

Yes mate exsang gaming

[honest vessel]

i be quiet

[simple gulch]

This is confusing me

Where’s the order from

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

left to right usually

[gusty mirage]

Looking to be a banger tbh

[dense herald]

Man that opener would feel alright minus sbs which just exists for the purpose of existing imo

[balmy condor]

unless you're used to reading hebrew I guess

in which case idk

[royal lantern]

wait, vanish and dm ARE used in sync now?

me confused

[iron orchid]

In really heavy AoE, would you garrote garrote then IC garrote ? To hit as many empowered garrote as possible ?

[gusty mirage]

@iron orchid

[desert shard]

kinda hate this opener lol

[iron orchid]

i do it on prepatch but dunno if useful ?

[simple gulch]

There’s exsang then dm though, I thought we weren’t supposed to do that

[balmy condor]

yeh we're recommending it because it's basically the same dps at this point and its just cleaner in fights

[balmy condor]

exsang during dm is bad, before it fine

[fleet imp]

Whole opener 1 single envenom

Give me back SoD sin NOWWWW

[royal lantern]

i mean, im haply with that cus it just feels better imo

vanish beeing not in sync was weird

[balmy condor]

I don't have a fancy visual for this one sorry

[simple gulch]

What’s the different between tea and reprimand?

In terms of dps

[balmy condor]

what's wrong with it? (it's exsang)

[gilded swallow]

Something to do to procrastinate those links with a bit longer

[balmy condor]

oh I don't do the visuals

[gilded swallow]

oh

lmao

[balmy condor]

I have people for that

[iron orchid]

is IC smart and targets monsters without garrote applied to them already ?

[gilded swallow]

Some furious DMing to do then

[hushed aurora]

exanguinate is played in m+ in DF?

[simple gulch]

Damn slave labor wtf

[balmy condor]

no

[desert shard]

I mean I hate the garrote gaming cause of exsang xD @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

yes

[iron orchid]

me sad

[gilded swallow]

If you stack int

[balmy condor]

any lightning round questions before I leave

ping me now you have 3 minutes

[iron orchid]

why u so cute

[simple gulch]

One question, why not tea instead of echoing

[balmy condor]

you won't, the opener works with all crits

[gilded swallow]

@balmy condor Just watched the interview with Max earlier, good takes, nice job. No question.

[desert shard]

@balmy condor eromanga sensei or domestic girlfriend?

[balmy condor]

in m+? Tea useless in aoe because i'ts just energy

[balmy condor]

thank you

[iron orchid]

the opener reads well to me, brain happy, thank you for this

[simple gulch]

Doesn’t it give mastery

[royal lantern]

exsang and er, everywhere, no excpetions, enjoy assassination in df

[balmy condor]

itadaki seieki

[balmy condor]

pleasure

[subtle tundra]

Whispyr idk if I'm asking too much but how tf do I play packs when ic is on cd and coming up soon? Especially in opener. Do I override empowered garrotes, do I wait on pressing it, do I just rupture, do I say fuck it and garrote aswell

[balmy condor]

not relevant to the rotation

[simple gulch]

I meant dps difference between them

[balmy condor]

you toaster bath

[subtle tundra]

Shit

[low herald]

https://tenor.com/view/champoy-el-risitas-kek-issou-etu-gif-17837830

[dense herald]

@balmy condor love your work my man, hope you get some spare time to get hyped for content

[royal lantern]

whispyr, can you give guy a hug

[gilded swallow]

Tell your tank politely to chill for a few seconds

[balmy condor]

I mean entirely depends on the situation, in single target thistle tea is about 6%, the two er points are a combined.... 9? maybe

[balmy condor]

no he smells and has a katana

[subtle tundra]

Let healer get mana

[balmy condor]

thank you!

[gusty mirage]

As in neverendingdude?

[gilded swallow]

Just all take a nice breather

[simple gulch]

What about me?

[royal lantern]

no, i mean endlesslad

[balmy condor]

famed outlaw player infinitebro

[hushed aurora]

@balmy condor im starting out with assassination and prepatch guide talks a lot about how exsang is complicated mechanically but where can i read on how exactly it works? does it just empower bleeds on the target? can those be extended with pandemic?

[subtle tundra]

Food buff guys almost gonna expire

[balmy condor]

you can get hugs

[simple gulch]

[gusty mirage]

Oh, then for sure not. Whispyr might lose an with the dice flying every decision he has to make

[balmy condor]

uhhhhhhhhhhhh....................... don't have time for that wait for the guides to come out or try and ask me tomorrow lmao

[hushed aurora]

damn its that complicated? XD

[balmy condor]

super tldr

refresh your bleeds to max pandemic beforehand, you exsang them. It snapshots their tick rate at that moment so haste doesn't matter, halves the duration, doubles the tick rate, you do that every 45 seconds, wait for them to expire, refresh after

[subtle tundra]

Fuck I need to learn apl so I can sim all the ic scenarios. If IC is in 5 seconds do I wait 2 seconds before going in

[balmy condor]

do not exsang during deathmark ever

[opaque sigil]

it’s not complicated Kipi, just find a comfy keybind for your garrote beforehand

[gilded swallow]

There it is once again

[opaque sigil]

You’ll click it a lot

[simple gulch]

Guys it’s over 3 mins, let them go

[balmy condor]

this is a rabbit hole you do not want to venture into

okay hyperlink time bye bye

[subtle tundra]

Do I just press on cd

[royal lantern]

but why, exsang lets DM do 100% more dmg?

[balmy condor]

when in doubt ook it out

[simple gulch]

Press dn

[random fossil]

What's dn?

[simple gulch]

Makes dm expire faster tho

[royal lantern]

deez nuts

[opaque sigil]

exsang doesn’t double your damage

[royal lantern]

guys

[gilded swallow]

Damn, gottem

[opaque sigil]

it just increases the tickrate

[royal lantern]

im trying to be annoying

ik how it works

[simple gulch]

Guy

[gusty mirage]

[opaque sigil]

get him guys

[dense cedar]

what th e fuck were some of those earlier messages

[vernal adder]

rn or 2016?

[gusty mirage]

Which ones

[dense cedar]

rn

[gilded swallow]

Feels like half this chat is discussing the intricacies of how to exactly route the opener to get out some extra 0.38% damage,
And the other half is just kind of shitposting lmao

[simple gulch]

What was in 2016

[vernal adder]

[gusty mirage]

Ye it do be that way in this channel

[simple gulch]

That’s a good chat right there

[gusty mirage]

Most of the time it’s just shit posting tho

So slight improvement

[simple gulch]

Shitposting ideal tbh

[uncut echo]

Guys, I came up with the class tree fix

[random fossil]

Crazy that noones talking about the mind goblin tho

[dense cedar]

you actually didn't

[dense cedar]

mage discord

[slim hamlet]

pinned comment too

[simple gulch]

Binned

[uncut echo]

I mean I did

But now aim not telling you

[simple gulch]

Dm me

[gusty mirage]

I don’t mind gobblin them nuts, no

[dense cedar]

more proof im correct

[random fossil]

Yooooo

[fallen arch]

I feel like that if you don't have a sense of how to press the opener you're either gonna forget stuff or you press stuff wrongly and lose out on a lot of damage

[gusty mirage]

[fallen arch]

For instance pressing exsang right after DM

[gusty mirage]

Yea, exsanging DM very bad

Everything else kinda whatever

Tbh

[hushed aurora]

so exsang just cuts bleed durations in half without losing damage, so we may reapply them again sooner?

[gusty mirage]

Yeppers

[vernal adder]

[hushed aurora]

that doesn't sound too important tbh. is it that bad if i choose not to use it?

[gusty mirage]

The gain is we get to fit in more bleeds in a fight

[uncut echo]

Gm ramlu

[vernal adder]

been awake ages

[subtle tundra]

vishine sugi pula?

[gusty mirage]

If the playstyle doesn’t vibe with you, you’d be sacrificing a bit of damage but tbh if it’s less miserable for you it’s worth it

[gilded swallow]

So by doing Exang > DM you copy the shorter bleeds but without impacting DM?

[hushed aurora]

thanks

[gusty mirage]

Last sim I checked it was about ~5% damage

[fallen arch]

i think it was more

[uncut echo]

Before they buffed zoldyck it was within margin of error

[crude topaz]

The shorter, double damaged bleeds

[gilded swallow]

Ye

[uncut echo]

Now it's ~5-6%

[gilded swallow]

While if you DM > Exang you fuck DM over, right?

[fallen arch]

yes

[crude topaz]

Yes, you shorten all of them

[gilded swallow]

Oh, even the actual DM bleed

[subtle tundra]

wait i just realised. this is why realz was hesitant in changing dm to how it works now. cause of exsang
fuck exsang

[gilded swallow]

That makes sense

[uncut echo]

LOL

Ez

[subtle tundra]

so...we convinced realz to make us play exsang

[gilded swallow]

Can't believe you've done this

[balmy condor]

the deathmark change also made vanish desyncing a thing btw

[subtle tundra]

[dense cedar]

i blame Vishine

[crude topaz]

Getting accustomed to England life more and more since playing rogue, errbody knifing eachother out here

[gilded swallow]

I'm new here, look at the sprout, I'm innocent

[balmy condor]

deathmark duplicating current bleeds can be blamed for like 90% of the cursed shit in the rotation

[desert shard]

[balmy condor]

okay vanish again

[vernal adder]

I blame Seli

[gusty mirage]

Same

[hushed aurora]

wait does DM double the bleeds already on the target? for some reason i thought it duplicated bleeds applied to the target while its running

[honest vessel]

it used to be that way, now it does dupe

[keen viper]

will this specc be good for raiding?

[copper hazel]

depends on the raid situation, but yes

[subtle tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/i-saw-w-gus-fring-gus-gustavo-deleted-gif-25440636

[copper hazel]

damn i was going to eggplant that kira, why delete

[honest vessel]

felt a little too aggressive

sorry

lol

[copper hazel]

feel the fury

[royal lantern]

The first half is people that wanna learn assa

the other half is assa otp's that reached the "i just press buttons :)" stage and wanna shitpost

[night delta]

what cursed stuff, pray tell, other than exsang ?

[honest vessel]

probably ER rng in the opener

[subtle tundra]

bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbuddy im not an otp

[gusty mirage]

Nothing syncing ever

[stuck knoll]

He hates horses

[subtle tundra]

horned horses

[copper hazel]

Varas is against animal cruelty, good guy Varas arc inc

[gusty mirage]

Give it a week

[subtle tundra]

life changes people

[copper hazel]

[junior pulsar]

Gonna play some sin for sure. Always loved the spec. Havent tried beta iteration. Heard whispyr had it as S-tier in Max's DF best changes of specs. Sounds great

[subtle tundra]

he was on copium when he said that

[junior pulsar]

It did surprise me ngl

[night delta]

??? like I see unsync ER but I don't see how DM logic has any bearing on that. Other than that I don't see how we wouldn't sync vanish, KB with DM ?

Only thing I see being a problem is in fact exsang

[drifting cloud]

gaslighter varas

[thorn crater]

Ye I was thinking about that. That’s one part. The other is the existence of shit like lightweigh and doomblade

[thorn crater]

Remember when you were cursing the DM changes?

You foresaw this lol

When everyone was saying what a great change

[subtle tundra]

how often can i take paracetamol

[thorn crater]

How much each time

[subtle tundra]

1 tablet

idk how many mg

[balmy condor]

idk if I foresaw it, but I was kinda giga suspicious yeh

[thorn crater]

Is it 500mg or 1g the tablet?

[subtle tundra]

500mg

[balmy condor]

take 7

[copper hazel]

isnt it like, no more than 2 doses a day

[balmy condor]

(do not)

[night delta]

I still fail to see what "cursed" stuff DM logic generates, apart maybe a lack of player expression ?

do the copycats snapshot or something ?

[balmy condor]

exsanguinate logic, vanishing 10 seconds into deathmark every time

no sync logic

[thorn crater]

Depending on how serious the headache take 2 up of those up to 3 times a day

But don’t spread 6 of them out if it makes sense

[subtle tundra]

ok so 8 hrs should be fine

[balmy condor]

if you want to giga min-max, you vanish 9-10 seconds into deathmark when the garrote expires, and then just maintain that timing forever, you deathmark at 2:10, vanish at 2:20 when the deathmark is in the last third

[subtle tundra]

also, does it matter if they are past expiry date

[balmy condor]

and that's just how it works apparently

[night delta]

vanishing 10 s into deathmark because it's a dps increase in a void, or because we do it at pull and we fear losing 1 deathmark cast 10 sec before the end of a fight ?

[gusty mirage]

Don’t exceed 4g in a 24hr period unless you really dislike your liver

[thorn crater]

Ye exactly

[balmy condor]

both

[subtle tundra]

cool

[thorn crater]

Wait you gave up on the syncing?

[balmy condor]

no, I'm recommending syncing everywhere

[night delta]

wait we get actually more mileage out of a DM cast if we put an emp garrote in the middle of it instead of before / at the start ?

[balmy condor]

I'm just electing to sweep the rest of it under the rug

[balmy condor]

not per DM, but per fight, yes

[thorn crater]

Even 4 is a lot :p 3 is the safest option

[night delta]

per fight because possibility of missing casts ?

[balmy condor]

yes

[gusty mirage]

Oh yeah, 4g is a fuck ton of acetaminophen

Would not recommend

[balmy condor]

you run into exsang timings and then miss exsang casts and shiv gets held for kingsbane but kingsbane waits for deathmark so then deathmark is waiting for 10 seconds and everything is waiting for deathmark

and you lose exsang casts and shiv casts and kingsbane castts

and it's just all bad

and the only halfway reasonable way to fix that is to either take the L and vanish in the middle of deathmark

[thorn crater]

I mean technically you can choose to view it as the spec being dynamic

And having to act based on the circumstances

Instead of memorizing shit

[balmy condor]

or vanish before the deathmark and take the L in the opener by dropping a couple seconds of imp garrote

but regardless of path, you're taking an L somewhere

[night delta]

I mean we wait 10 secs once. So sure it's bad, but only if the fight timing if off by 10 seconds

[balmy condor]

yeh sure

10 seconds is half a shiv

[thorn crater]

Technically you are not waiting

[balmy condor]

it's also 10 seconds later into a fight and you'll run into mechanics during your kingsbane

[thorn crater]

You are just no giga forcing an early vanish

[balmy condor]

it's also 10 seconds closer to an exsang

[desert shard]

every day I finish thinking I understand sin a bit more and then u hit me with vanish inside dm and I'm back at square one

[night delta]

are every fight on a perfect 2 min timer where this window never gives issue ?

[thorn crater]

I love pressing KB

[night delta]

that makes more sense to me

[thorn crater]

Honestly

[balmy condor]

no, but encounter design does give you windows for 2 minute cooldowns fairly regularly because of how a majority of specs function

[thorn crater]

How was logic dictating vanish pre DM ?

[balmy condor]

I can't guarantee 2:10 is empty and 2:20 is full of dogshit

[thorn crater]

That was literally to force a sync

[balmy condor]

but it's definitely a trend

[thorn crater]

You took a dps loss at start cause you are losing active garrote dmg

[balmy condor]

logic for vanish with vendetta was vanish with vendetta for master assassin

[thorn crater]

Ye but DM is not vendetta

[balmy condor]

yeh

[thorn crater]

And we don’t have MA

[balmy condor]

yeh

those are the two core problems

with subterfuge it was still vanish with vendetta

but deathmark is legit twice as strong as vendetta

so holding it for 10 seconds causes more issues

[thorn crater]

Ofc because it actively does dmg

It does not amplify existing dmg

[balmy condor]

yeh

[thorn crater]

It’s fundamentally different

Other than a shiny CD

[balmy condor]

it's added complexity and an insane buff on top of it

just makes it really yucky

[white temple]

I wonder if the rogue Dev is relishing on our struggle with Exsang

👀

[balmy condor]

he's been neutral on purpose

[night delta]

Question : how about vanish early during opener ? Sure we take a little L on less emp garrote uptime at the start

[balmy condor]

but he's definitely aware

[night delta]

But we avoid the sync issue

[balmy condor]

that's the solution

you vanish before deathmark, then sync everything up

it's worse overall by a little

but that's what me and seli are going to end up recommending in the end

[royal lantern]

he knows about it, but you also have to remind yourself that RH is a minority overall

[thorn crater]

That is what I meant by you’re forcing things to sync

It’s an L

But not a large one

[white temple]

RH? You mean raven?

[night delta]

Feels like that loss at start can be recouped with higher emp gar uptime in later DM casts, no ?

[royal lantern]

like, maybe we cry that exsangn is the worst thing ever, but classic andy, lfr larry and heroic herbet love it

[balmy condor]

you would think so

[thorn crater]

Hot take

[royal lantern]

ravenholdt, this discord

[thorn crater]

As long as DM exists, exsa isn’t going anywhere

[white temple]

Yeah, alright

[royal lantern]

still, delete exsangn:)

[balmy condor]

and yet I'm always 0.2-0.4% behind

no matter how I sync it

[night delta]

Welp

[balmy condor]

nothing to be done

[thorn crater]

In fact I could go as far as saying DM was designed with exsa in mind. It was a cool concept that fell through and went unused

And now you HAVE to use it

Because of DM I teraction

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't have minded exsanguinate if it was used as an actual burst cooldown

[night delta]

Same

[thorn crater]

Why would you think that though. Fight will have to be longer than 6 minutes for that to happen

[balmy condor]

but atm it's a rupture/garrote tick generator

[royal lantern]

thats Something many people dont understand, talked about exsang in gchat and 4people told me "huh, its a burst cd, why is it bad?"

[thorn crater]

Imo the only problem exsa has

Is that it does not excuse getting held for DM

[subtle tundra]

it exists

[thorn crater]

And you have to always send it on cd

If you could excuse for example if DM <10 sec cd hold exsa

[night delta]

Make exsa 2 min CD

[balmy condor]

yeh you need the 4th case I think to make it back

[thorn crater]

And that makes sense

Math wise

[balmy condor]

exsang being a 2 min cooldown might actually make it reasonably balanced honestly

[white temple]

Make exsa 1 min would seem more logic

[thorn crater]

Yes true

[balmy condor]

cause right now it's a capstone

[obsidian parrot]

do you suggest wowhead or icy for guides?

[white temple]

@obsidian parrot same stuff

[royal lantern]

DONT GIVE BLIZZARD IDEAS

[thorn crater]

My prediction for 10.1-2 is move sbs from behind doomblade and put DM on 2 mins

[obsidian parrot]

thanks

[thorn crater]

If you did that

It would balance put

OR save VR

[balmy condor]

my completely unbiased opinion is wowhead is superior in every way and the writer is much cuter

[thorn crater]

From oblivion

[obsidian parrot]

Guy?

[white temple]

Aren't you the same writer on both? 🤨

[balmy condor]

[balmy condor]

nah seli does icyveins

[burnt latch]

@balmy condor btw one of the mods on warrior discord said this (pinging u cuz we were talking about assa vs warrior execute some days ago);
Like arms' pre-execute dps is around 67k~. Fury sustains at 73k pre-execute.
Arms will jump to 100k~, essentially a 50% dps jump, the moment they go into execute and it lasts long enough.

[balmy condor]

I do method and wowhead

[thorn crater]

Shhhhh

[white temple]

Go wowhead. Far superior.

[obsidian parrot]

clear, thanks

[gusty mirage]

Only 100K?

[white temple]

[balmy condor]

thats dummy thick

[obsidian parrot]

im still deciding if going outlaw, sub or assa

tryng them all

[thorn crater]

Our execute is over 100k though

[balmy condor]

yeh but we go from 93k to like 115k

not 70k to 100k

[thorn crater]

Wait don’t we

[gusty mirage]

Yeah but we’re cuter

[burnt latch]

yeah so we do more, but they gain more % wise

[balmy condor]

correct

[burnt latch]

so if they tune arms properly

[thorn crater]

I mean

[burnt latch]

scary numbers

[gusty mirage]

Especially @burnt latch

[thorn crater]

We start ahead we end ahead

[white temple]

Shh, go assa. We are cooler

[thorn crater]

Who cares

[balmy condor]

warriors I would assume

[burnt latch]

[thorn crater]

Man fuck Warriors and warlocks

[gusty mirage]

I’ve seen gromnak, no way warriors have that kind of brain capacity

[thorn crater]

Tanks and portal bots all of them

[storm rapids]

give all classes an exsang

[balmy condor]

wdym, they definitely have the brain capacity to look at details and go "WHY ME BIG SWORD SO LOW?"

[gusty mirage]

[balmy condor]

bro I'm still fucking hyperlinking this dogshit guide I hate this

[subtle tundra]

get...cooler

cause youre already the best

[obsidian parrot]

in terms of numbers? My guild aim to do the first 3/4 Mythic and run 20 keys

[teal bloom]

2min exsang would be pretty cool, works with vanish+dm

[gusty mirage]

But think of the moneyyyyyy

[balmy condor]

it's cute you think method has money

[gusty mirage]

Think of the haggis sco will pay you with*

[balmy condor]

if I calculate the money I get from method with the time I spend on it

I would be at less than half the minimum wage in my area

[royal lantern]

open an onlyfans channel?

[bold drum]

Onlyfans sims

[desert shard]

onlysims

[bold drum]

Free money

[balmy condor]

azor pov

[royal lantern]

fixing sims ASMR

[hollow river]

So $20/hr?

[desert shard]

exsang asmr hahaha

[hollow river]

[balmy condor]

it's closer to like

7 or 8

[gusty mirage]

So federal minimum wage

[velvet wraith]

Sorry if this has been answered, out of curiosity which race sims the best on AssAss?

[balmy condor]

orc dark iron

[subtle tundra]

but youre atleast having fun

[hollow river]

Still tho it’s an extra grustle

From a game

[balmy condor]

yeah but federal 1 bedroom apartment isn't 2700 a month

[velvet wraith]

Fankies, cow dream is dead :<

[white temple]

Race still a thing in dps?

[royal lantern]

no

[balmy condor]

not really

but kinda

but not really

[steel ridge]

fuus spreadsheet has both DTB and KB at around 93k for the 5 minute sim, doesnt that incluce execute already?

[royal lantern]

race dps is a meme

[gusty mirage]

#JustBayAreaThings

[velvet wraith]

its deffo a worry less about which race you are and just pushing your buttons better

[balmy condor]

yeah I just used random numbers to prove my point

[white temple]

Next we're going engi prof for the tinker dps

[royal lantern]

the differences are so extremely small and in the margain of sim errors, its actually funny that peope still think race dps is a thing

[royal lantern]

you mean the tinkers that if i remeber right are all bad?

[gusty mirage]

What if I told you orc and dark iron are a bit above margin

[royal lantern]

what if i told you suck dn

[white temple]

You got an agi tinker on gloves iirc

[steel ridge]

people might snip that and go apeshit in warrior discord crying for buffs 😄

[gusty mirage]

Okay but what do our extracurriculars have to do with my question??

[balmy condor]

yeah and if they do, tell them to eat my ass

[white temple]

Onlysims fine material there

[subtle tundra]

wow

[steel ridge]

that an offer or a threat?

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/thank-you-por-que-no-gif-23322568

[steel ridge]

this is a weird place

[royal lantern]

#assassination and beeing horny for whispyr, name a more iconic duo

[balmy condor]

I mean if they're scrambling for info so much that they need to take a random thing I say in a channel out of context and run with it, they're just fucking idiots

[subtle tundra]

im hunger

what eat

[gusty mirage]

Whispyr’s ass? Are you not reading chat?

[steel ridge]

whispyr onlyfans confirmed?

[royal lantern]

[subtle tundra]

awoooggaogaogagaogaooooga

[thorn crater]

dankest timeline

exsa is not the problem, shiv is not the problem

DM is the problem

[copper hazel]

whispyr hot tub sim streams when?

[ancient rain]

why doesn't this trigger activate when I cast exsang? Why is it so fkin difficult

[copper hazel]

you dont cast it on yourself

[balmy condor]

wish I could

[ancient rain]

it doesnt work with unit = target either

[copper hazel]

my gf thinks i do, we have to have talks about it

[true pelican]

what are you trying to do? that trigger only activates when a spell is in the middle of being cast

not when it's succesfully casted

if you want to do that then use combat log-spell-cast success

[ancient rain]

if i use that i'm forced to put a timer on how long it works.. i just want to make a glow visible when i cast exsang..

[true pelican]

well you don't want that glow to last forever right?

so you can set the timer to how long you want the glow to appear for

[ancient rain]

I would make another trigger to turn the glow off when i recast rupture

[copper hazel]

yeh ive just logged in to try look at this, and i actually dont think it will work

i know what you want it to do

but it wont do that

as it doesnt have like, a 10 sec timer on it

it just increases your current bleeds by 100% speed

which, like mirage said, is not a set timer

[ancient rain]

sadly it wont. i thought about making the glow last as long as the longest possible exsanguinated bleed, but i just don't like this solution atm

[true pelican]

if you're looking for an indicator of your bleeds being exsanguinated I think luxthos's wa package has that inbuilt

so you can copy that over to your wa's

[copper hazel]

yeh would be neat to see it like, exang is currently doing its thing

yeh thats a better solution

someone elses gigabrain gets it done for us

[ancient rain]

i looked into it and i decided i won't play exsang this expansion. cheers

[desert shard]

[faint sinew]

[storm rapids]

[subtle tundra]

I hate this

[abstract pewter]

Hi all can anyone post me a good (or performing) mythic+ spec? Thanks

[balmy condor]

pins

[obsidian parrot]

why wowhead suggest me to not go down up to kingsbane in raid?

[drifting cloud]

because its prepatch and it was worse before latest set of buffs

and theres definetly a kingsbane build on wowhead aswell

[obsidian parrot]

which are the recent buffs?

[honest vessel]

there were quite a few. namely zoldyck

[obsidian parrot]

the execute

[honest vessel]

which paths to kb

ye

[obsidian parrot]

sounds like big dmg in raid

[honest vessel]

valuable damage as well

[obsidian parrot]

are we worried for performance in m+?

[honest vessel]

lookin significantly better than recent memory

[obsidian parrot]

lot of adds last less than 20 sec in tyrannical

[honest vessel]

definitely viable for 99.99% of people

[obsidian parrot]

nice

[balmy condor]

if you're doing less than 25's assassination is great

and higher than that it can still keep up with outlaw

[thorn crater]

!pandemic

[prisma monolith]

Pandemic takes up to 30% of the duration of a applied dot/buff and adds it to your new applied one. The duration depends on the new instance.
Example: Garrote (18 sec) can be extended by up to 5.4 seconds from an existing instance.
Note: Pandemic applies to most but not all debuffs/buffs

[honest vessel]

iron wire IC c:

[subtle tundra]

Yea in low keys. Do higher keys then

[balmy condor]

you're so real for this

[onyx wind]

yeah play outlaw in lower keys and then swap to assa in higher keys

oh wait

u can just stay outlaw

[balmy condor]

or just play whatever spec you want in low keys because its fun and you don't need the damage

[subtle tundra]

No way fk off

I don't get invited to keys on assa

[thorny pond]

play better?

[balmy condor]

viklund hates assa

[onyx wind]

just swap spec right before dungeon starts

they wont notice

until they do

tank is gonna take noticeably lower damage

surely he will notice

[subtle tundra]

What's a viklund

[balmy condor]

viklund my balls in your mouth

viklund is daps m+ person

streamer dude or something

daps certified outlaw OTP

[onyx wind]

viklund is a famous padder

some even say the term was invented to describe him

[simple gulch]

Is it normal that i can manage to do 43k sustain on st in 2m 45 seconds

I'm probably doing something giga wrong

I'm talking about beta at level 70

[subtle tundra]

Ah the noob

He should get better

I still don't know who viklund is

[balmy condor]

probably fine if you're not in giga gear

[true pelican]

used to be in method

[simple gulch]

im in the full pvp set gear, 4p and some m+ trinkets from vendor

406

[subtle tundra]

Loser guild

[balmy condor]

seems a bit low but you're also not enchanted or anything I guess

so it's probably fine

[simple gulch]

I'm not

what should the dps be like?

[balmy condor]

ye think its probably ok

[simple gulch]

this is the breakdown

[subtle tundra]

For aoe?

[simple gulch]

it's st

[balmy condor]

seems decent

did you vanish?

[simple gulch]

I did but that doesn't really show

[balmy condor]

ye

[simple gulch]

because it resets

[balmy condor]

ok

looks okay then

[simple gulch]

Btw what should the dps be like at max?

[balmy condor]

bout 90k in bis in raid

[simple gulch]

90k dps?

[balmy condor]

yes

[simple gulch]

damn

isn't that a lot?

[balmy condor]

one of the highest in the game atm

[simple gulch]

expecting nerfs

?

[subtle tundra]

No go away

[onyx wind]

they just buffed us

[hearty junco]

not ST?

[balmy condor]

🔮

[onyx wind]

we are getting the warlock treatment

[simple gulch]

They can nerf you too though

[balmy condor]

idk what the tuning goal is

[onyx wind]

maybe they thought we deserved a buff

considering the state assa launched at

in SL

[drifting cloud]

lol

yes thats surely it

by that logic ret and feral should be the best melee dps for 2 xpacs to make it even

[onyx wind]

hey man theyre trying

[simple gulch]

If I wanted to craft some gear, what stats should I go for?

[dense cedar]

oh i have a question

[hearty junco]

Rogues in general were not that good in the start of SL, mostly becuase few broken melee classes that did what rogues could but better

[dense cedar]

are agi and int daggers universal in DF?

[drifting cloud]

assa was bad for like 3months after being good for almost 3xpacs, seems like a fair trade

[balmy condor]

nop

[simple gulch]

No

[dense cedar]

Pain

[simple gulch]

anyone?

[hearty junco]

atleast daggers drops are not personal now

[drifting cloud]

crit mastery

[dense cedar]

Truly the most dogshit thing about playing rouge

[simple gulch]

no haste?

[balmy condor]

some haste is good

crit mastery then haste

avoiding vers for the most part

[simple gulch]

okay fair, thanks

[hearty junco]

yes but it gets better now atleast, rogue was the worst spec in terms of weapon loot since the introduction of personal loot

[simple gulch]

why avoid vers?

[balmy condor]

because the damage you get from vers is lower than the damage you get from the other stats

[simple gulch]

ok

[onyx wind]

ye ur not wrong

[simple gulch]

have you guys seen this btw?

[onyx wind]

AMZ GANG

[hearty junco]

ofc

[balmy condor]

what is this supposed to be?

[onyx wind]

still outdps'd the fotm marksmen and dk's

[honest vessel]

yeah ive looked at that picture of a log all day

[simple gulch]

I think this is Method's testing on dummy

[onyx wind]

i could do better

[dense cedar]

tbh i do think just making daggers universally both outside of special effect weapons would be good

[simple gulch]

on beta

[balmy condor]

oh

good for them

[white temple]

Sin > otl

[meager granite]

random log of method with no indication of the fight ST or not, with people at 100+ms

[hearty junco]

dunno if fair, then rogues would always get weps first i guess

[meager granite]

seems legit

[simple gulch]

That's st

[white temple]

D

[meager granite]

what gear?

pvp?

[balmy condor]

all the gear

the best of gear

[simple gulch]

No idea, I assume the best gear they can get lmao

[balmy condor]

they were hitting a dummy after all

[honest vessel]

sims > cokeheads hitting a dummy

[balmy condor]

I'm sure they also played perfectly

with all the optimizations

that haven't been found yet

and the best builds

and the best trinkets

[meager granite]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-seccato-憤怒-inside-out-gif-5902151

[honest vessel]

https://tenor.com/xsvf.gif

[meager granite]

whyspir right now

[white temple]

[dense cedar]

everyone else that uses daggers has other options of drops tho

[drifting cloud]

yeah it sucks vansolo but its better now with group loot

[balmy condor]

I'm sure them hitting a dummy for 5 minutes on a weekday afternoon is a statistically significant data set to show relative balance

[dense cedar]

i know i know

[balmy condor]

[drifting cloud]

now you can laugh when multiplte daggers drop and youre the only rogue

[dense cedar]

just holy fuck

going from Legion to BfA

was such a sore

[onyx wind]

still not gonna expect anything

blacksmithing+pvp

we forcing

[simple gulch]

I don't think it is

[dense cedar]

i can't even remember which of my alts is the blacksmith

think its my warrior

[simple gulch]

warrior is always the bs

[copper hazel]

was sarcasm my dude

[dense cedar]

dork iron dwarf gaming

[onyx wind]

what profs are u guys running on main?

[dense cedar]

alc eng

[prisma cypress]

engineering/enchanting

[onyx wind]

engi offers anything nice? from what ive seen its just wormhole no?

[copper hazel]

brez

raid brez

[onyx wind]

ye that too

[copper hazel]

gunshoes

[simple gulch]

wormholes, brez, goblin glider on cloak, nitro boost

[subtle tundra]

How much of that is execute tho hmmm

[obsidian parrot]

Why cant i make a weakaura for shiv duration on target?

[onyx wind]

100% dw assa is weak

[obsidian parrot]

not in the list of debuff

[royal lantern]

you forgot that the dummy was at ~37%when you started

[oblique jackal]

How important will professions be ?

[onyx wind]

@obsidian parrot copy rupture wa and change id for shiv

or name

[onyx wind]

depends on how minmax u are

but theyre gonna be FUN B)

[dense cedar]

alchemy gaming forever

[obsidian parrot]

ty

[oblique jackal]

Is engineering beneficial

[dense cedar]

Yes

idk if there is a bad choice for professions

outside maybe tailoring?

idk waht that's giving that anyone would care about

[slim hamlet]

what does blacksmith give that anyone care about?

tailoring gives a passive, does BS?

[dense cedar]

what is the tailoring passive?

[simple gulch]

What are the top st simming specs rn?

[slim hamlet]

extra cloth

[simple gulch]

with bis DF gear

[subtle tundra]

Me

[balmy condor]

Sin, feral, havoc

Uhh

[slim hamlet]

only thing that professions really matter for is alchemy for poisonous pots, and stuff for the legion dung

[balmy condor]

Maybe warlock idk if they got their sims together

[slim hamlet]

cant remember name

[balmy condor]

Always assume warlock

[simple gulch]

do you know anything about warr sims?

[slim hamlet]

Warlock actually didn't seem crazy

last time I checked in at kalamazis stream

[balmy condor]

I got enough to do with Assassination sadly

Yeh well

It’s Kalamari

[slim hamlet]

Will take 1-2 weeks and they number 1 anyways

lets be honest

[balmy condor]

All warlocks are dishonest sandbaggers

[slim hamlet]

Nah

Impossible

Can't be

[dense cedar]

did they change the CoS alc interaction or is it still neato

[slim hamlet]

Everything that used to be REQUIRED is removed

[simple gulch]

Boomies one of the biggest sandbaggers tbh

[slim hamlet]

from CoS

/changed

[dense cedar]

oh

[desert shard]

u can't say sandbag and not mention DH

[dense cedar]

so they removed alc for sure then

rip

[simple gulch]

oh yeah dh too

[slim hamlet]

They didnt remove anything just nerf it

[dense cedar]

idk how u can really nerf

[slim hamlet]

I meant removed as in its not required

[dense cedar]

instant kill damage

[balmy condor]

Dh is like not Even top 5

[dense cedar]

other than delaying it

[slim hamlet]

I dont remember which prof it was, but one of them was something along the lines of "summon a miniboss and insta kill it" for a boss and % or something

[dense cedar]

alc deleted an execute phase off of a boss

[slim hamlet]

they made it summon with 80% hp and deal 10% bonus dmg to it or something

[obsidian parrot]

Marked for Death for Slice and Dice before the pull
Garrote
Slice and Dice
Echoing Reprimand
Mutilate

[slim hamlet]

Not 100% but something like that

[obsidian parrot]

Why 2 Slice and Dice?

[gusty mirage]

[simple gulch]

You said they were one of the best

[dense cedar]

legit just think Warlocks don't understand their own math well enough to give correct answers about power

[balmy condor]

Because you might not have marked for death

[balmy condor]

Yeah but they don’t sandbag

[obsidian parrot]

no i selected it in the talents options

[balmy condor]

Okay

So then skip the second idk

[dense cedar]

the wowhead thing for sin rogue doesn't do the 1337 gamer edit stuff some other guides do

[simple gulch]

Oh you meant not even top 5 sandbaggers?

[balmy condor]

[slim hamlet]

wtf does this mean

[balmy condor]

Yes it does

[distant fox]

besides the fact that there is a lot that i have to improve and know about, CT uptime, cd usage, shiv, how does it look?

[balmy condor]

It does all the leet

[dense cedar]

i forget which spec it was

[distant fox]

11 gambit with 266 gear

[subtle tundra]

Nobody knows

[dense cedar]

but i remember in first season one of them didn't have any talent pick options and just listed like 20 lines of variables

[subtle tundra]

Prepatch numbers are an enigma

[dense cedar]

not rogue, dif class

[dense cedar]

yaknow

[slim hamlet]

I do in fact not

🤓

[dense cedar]

yaknow

[distant fox]

not the numbers but the look, i mean if like Ct should be #1 i know i do sth really wrong

[balmy condor]

Erdrosseln alter der spielt auf deutsch

[distant fox]

ja mei

[slim hamlet]

Ja ich agree

[subtle tundra]

It shouldn't be 1st

[dense cedar]

Crimson Tempest is the best thing in all of gaming

[slim hamlet]

Think it was an example

[dense cedar]

just look at its icon and name

[desert shard]

lol rupture in german literally translates to bleeding that's funny

[dense cedar]

powerful

[distant fox]

just needed an example

[subtle tundra]

Nobody plays prepatch

[slim hamlet]

Rupture in danish = break basically

epic

[dense cedar]

i sat in this chat for both CN and SoD

[slim hamlet]

I'm sorry for you

[dense cedar]

and feels like more people are trying to optimizte pre-patch than either of the two raid tiers

[slim hamlet]

No one should have to do that

[gusty mirage]

BUT MAH PREPATCH PARSE

[balmy condor]

New stuff bruh

It’s new

Must be optimized

[subtle tundra]

My balls

[desert shard]

dude in DK discord was like "bros, I have a problem, which ring from vault do I take??" and I don't understand that

[spice spire]

Go on

[desert shard]

like it's less than a week

who cares

[random fossil]

Whispyr more like flüstyrn or something idk

[dense cedar]

Pre-Patch: "what legendary should i run when i've got these talents with these people in my M+ group???"
Actual raid tiers: "is it okay to use envenom at 4cp ever???"

[gusty mirage]

god that's painful

it's so true

it hurts

[balmy condor]

True

[distant fox]

we dont raid atm, so i wanna learn more about assa and esp if i focus on the wrong stuff. its not about the perfect for prepatch but that it more or less matches what i should do. as feral i know rip is 30% and rake between 15 and 18% of my dmg
like if its normal that garrote is above rupture or if i have to spread it more. well maybe the new capstone makes the difference but still, something to tell if i dont play shit xD

[dense cedar]

this is literally not waht im talking about

i said optimization

not like

[gusty mirage]

also don't forget the "is it okay to envenom at 2-3cp at the end of flag" discussions

[dense cedar]

base gameplay knowledge

[slim hamlet]

Is it tho?

[gusty mirage]

25 to 27 stacks MASSIVE DIFFERENCE

[dense cedar]

...

[slim hamlet]

🤓

[dense cedar]

I think

[balmy condor]

Whispyr can you sim it? I know you simmed it Last week but now with more gear right

[dense cedar]

Shrouded questions during Uldir were the most annoying

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

But whispyr

[dense cedar]

i don't even remember them well anymore

[simple gulch]

Whispyr can you make my life good

[spice spire]

I think I’ve found a gain in LBE

[dense cedar]

but my brain dislikes that era

[gusty mirage]

kindly be to yourself today

[slim hamlet]

But, but Whispyr

Yu have the orange name

[balmy condor]

I can’t even make my own life good

[slim hamlet]

You gotta do it, right?

[simple gulch]

[spice spire]

These are getting more elaborate by the second

[gusty mirage]

also tell val and george I say happy thanksgiving

mostly george, but we can't leave val hanging

[balmy condor]

Ye orange name = google replacement

[gusty mirage]

she might think I like the dog more than her

[slim hamlet]

Exactly

[dense cedar]

Whispyr

should I use Wound poison

in encounters where there a healing adds

????

[subtle tundra]

Is assa good?

[desert shard]

what about in m+

[gusty mirage]

no