assassination

[spice spire]

[burnt latch]

[viscid spear]

More fiber

[teal bloom]

I look forward to dragonflight now after deciding I won't ever talent into it even though it is good

[spice spire]

It’s like -1.2% to go the other route, it’s fine

[teal bloom]

Wasn't it 4% at some point?

[spice spire]

Misspeak. 4% to avoid that node at all

I think you choose that or ttb. And ttb is -1.2%

[royal lantern]

should be +4%IF you avoid it tbh

[night delta]

worth it

[spice spire]

Exsang hate 👉🚪

[night delta]

I don't hate exsang per se

I hate how we're gonna use it

I'd rather not bother than refreshing 15 sec dots like a madman just to send it on CD

[royal lantern]

i do

suck it up green name

[wary ice]

my mans got mutilate to press 😠

[spice spire]

Vulpera main, opinion invalid

[uncut echo]

Exsang sympathizer, opinion [REDACTED]

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

ADMINISTERING CLASS C AMNESTICS

[spice spire]

Gonna men in black everyone into at least be apathetic exsanguinate

[royal lantern]

everyone can have bad opinions sometimes

we still love you mate

[spice spire]

[gusty mirage]

we?

[spice spire]

Bro?

Why must you hurt me

[royal lantern]

now you made him cry

😦

[uncut echo]

I love him

Wym?

[spice spire]

Oxi is just a hater

[uncut echo]

We were danker without Oxi here

[spice spire]

Oxi is a necessary force of order

Otherwise this channel is just chaos

Cev and Oxi bring order
Vhispyr and myself bring a wee bit of chaos

It balanced out nicely

[wary ice]

🤏

[spice spire]

But the homies that need help take precedence over the bullshitting

[royal lantern]

i need help

[spice spire]

Idk if I can help you

But I can try

With what

[uncut echo]

100%, we do instacut the bs when a question is asked tho, fwiw

[royal lantern]

@spice spire im trying to play assassination

but there is that weird talent that makes it just play bad

there

[spice spire]

You’re beyond help I’m sorry, king

[wary ice]

thats valeera's butt

[royal lantern]

can we remove it or something like that?

[vernal adder]

could play with that

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

[spice spire]

[ember mural]

[uncut echo]

[spice spire]

#assassination moment

But also stop terrorizing me at that rate

[raven knoll]

Rate my M+ talents

[royal lantern]

out of all talents, you took some of them

[raven knoll]

30 of them to be precise

[subtle tundra]

this guy really did delete exsang

[spice spire]

Seems fine

[gusty mirage]

cry about it

[echo geyser]

food check

[violet jackal]

tapsilog for lunch

[spice spire]

I’m gonna summon some people if you don’t stay in line

[spice spire]

Nap for lunch today

Gonna make something when I get home, unsure what.
Gonna make some curry katsu this weekend tho

[echo geyser]

rice with stir fry today, carrots zucchini chicken brocoli & spinnach

[spice spire]

Ooooo.
I did that last weekend with carrots zuchinni mushroom bell pepper

[dry chasm]

i drop second sylvanas dagger when i craft the first, i can use them on assa?

[spice spire]

Yeah double eon is fine, generally you’ll take ilvl main hand. No spec relies on them as much anymore since sub removed the deeper dagger interaction

But the effect is nice for an off hand

Outlaw also loves it as an oh. But sub and sin are pretty meh on them, nice effect, not essential

[outer cairn]

craft?

[spice spire]

I assume dinar

[outer cairn]

ahhh

It had pretty high execute damage for me last night on some mythic bosses

[spice spire]

It’s very good

And at 311 it truly is a crazy piece

But unless prepatch made it otherworldly, we always preferred higher ilvl > edge of night.
If eon happened to be the higher ilvl,

[gusty mirage]

it did

EoN is doing a lot more damage than it was prior to prepatch

[spice spire]

Double eon it is then

[gusty mirage]

a lot of things are wonky

my sludge trinket is doing way more damage than cache

[spice spire]

You can tell someone hasn’t raided prepatch

Hateful chain gaming?

[gusty mirage]

yarp

outsimming scars for my outlaw set too

go figure

[spice spire]

Prepatch built diffly

[supple snow]

do you guys thing they will change anything about the talent tree ? it just feels super weird to not be able to get 2 of the bottom talents

[gusty mirage]

it went from like 1-2% of my damage to like... 4-5%

its wild

no

level 70 you can get IC & KB

but you won't be able to get dragon tempered + one of the others

[pure moth]

Yeah eon is crazy right now

[gusty mirage]

and it was purposefully designed like that

so no it won't change

[spice spire]

Interaction could lead to nutso stuff

Was the reasoning

It could change later; but before 10.0? No shot

[supple snow]

and that's very sad 😄

so what do you guys thing about this

[outer cairn]

Yeah I just got my second from an LFR drop last night and upgraded it. Sims showed me that it was almost a full 1k increase to dps

[uncut echo]

Do we not want ss over sbs

[strange python]

Why take TTB if you're not going to kingsbane

[uncut echo]

I can't cry, I heard you were cool

[spice spire]

Because it’s more damage?

[gusty mirage]

who lied to you

[spice spire]

Shut the fuck up oxi

[gusty mirage]

???

[uncut echo]

Lmao

[strange python]

TTB is outperforming exsang and shrouded suff and blindside??

[spice spire]

Ur the coolest dude I know

[uncut echo]

Oxi u wanna be friends

[gusty mirage]

sure

[uncut echo]

Nice

[supple snow]

not sure if my reasoning is correct for this, but a new dot gives us 2% more damage on all dots and poisons. and I thought it will out weigh the 15% stealth damage of garrote

[uncut echo]

Garrote absolutely cranks

[spice spire]

Ttb is -1.2% on exsanguinate

[uncut echo]

I'd sim that before making an assumption

[spice spire]

So if you just want to skip that

Then like

[supple snow]

it seems like a really good talent, the only replacement i could think of would be rank two of BM, but questionable

[spice spire]

Go ttb

[uncut echo]

-1.2% is entirely okay if you're not WFR

Just fyi

[strange python]

God I guess I'm way out of the loop. TTB was garbage last I saw but I haven't been closely following

[strange python]

Good lord please. Stop

[spice spire]

Nope, need maximum build, for maximum dam, sorry queen.

(I’m going TTB)

I’ve been selling Exsang propaganda

[outer cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-maximum-power-power-spongebob-squarepants-full-power-gif-22777727

[uncut echo]

Stop what?

[strange python]

Stop the bullshit pedantry that someone spews every single time someone says ugh about a talent.

[spice spire]

Let’s relax here

[uncut echo]

Calm down king

[spice spire]

People do really freak out about numbers and it’s a decent anecdote

[uncut echo]

I fucking despise exsang just as much as the next pal here

[strange python]

It's exhausting. Every single time someone says a talent is unfun or bad someone goes "well ackshually you don't have to".

[uncut echo]

IT IS BAD

BUT GUESS WHAT

YOU DONT NEED TO RUN IT

[strange python]

You don't need to breathe. But if you want to stay alive you probably should.

[spice spire]

That’s a really bad analogy here homie

[outer cairn]

I can't even speak in %. I can only work with whole numbers

[spice spire]

That 1% isn’t gonna fuel your damage from 10th to 1st

[uncut echo]

MuH 1.2% iS gOnNa MaKe a DiFfErEnCe

Go take a nap

[outer cairn]

also on paper. doesn't take into account human error

[strange python]

WElL aCkShUaLlY YoU DoNT HaVe To

[outer cairn]

https://tenor.com/view/smart-thinking-thoughts-think-ponder-gif-7713620

[strange python]

If you can't keep in your head that the type of player in a channel like this is implying with every statement "if I want to maximize my potential" then you're being intellectually dishonest.

Just like when a friend says "man I don't wanna go to work today" you don't just say "lol well don't"

[uncut echo]

Arent you the child that popped off on Seli over being told your sampling for an argument was segmented as fuck

And got told to sit down

[strange python]

Selis wrong.

[uncut echo]

Ok blocked

That was easy

[spice spire]

If someone doesn’t know the different in talent %, chances are the 1% really doesn’t matter

[strange python]

Selk being a sim genius doesn't make him a stats genius. He was wrong.

[royal lantern]

raiding is fun

2 rogues, me as assa, other guy outlaw

"uh, assa does more st dmg right?"

weeeeell

[echo geyser]

@spice spire i wish this was only a food channel

[spice spire]

Me too

[uncut echo]

Potroastination?

[spice spire]

Kind of, when tier works allegedly

[uncut echo]

BUT NUMBER NOT HIGHER

CANT PLAY SIN

GOTTA FOTM FOREVER

Amirite?

[spice spire]

Bless up

I shall

(Be an OTP shitter)

[uncut echo]

ongod ongod fr fr imma keep it a buck

[echo geyser]

@uncut echo i thought there was a new person in here

[uncut echo]

[echo geyser]

new pfp and name

[uncut echo]

I rotate depending on my energy

[echo geyser]

[uncut echo]

Hello~

[echo geyser]

Hi~

[spice spire]

Ur just like me

Holy fuck

[uncut echo]

I go back Ahri now

I am!?

[spice spire]

ongod ongod fr fr imma keep it a buck

[uncut echo]

You must be fucking gorgeous then

[spice spire]

Bro I wish

I’m an ugly mf

[uncut echo]

Drugs can fix that

[spice spire]

I got a hot fiancé and two cute animals

[uncut echo]

W Quack

[outer cairn]

pics

[royal lantern]

nah, it was about goind downwards for KT

[uncut echo]

Anyone else gonna lucksack into a week 1 tier set with me

[spice spire]

Of which

[spice spire]

Yes man

[outer cairn]

both

lol

[spice spire]

Fiancé for her own protection nah

[outer cairn]

equal opportunity

[spice spire]

But the dog is mine in my pfp

[uncut echo]

ZAMN

My wife is fuego

But everyone's wives are fuego

[spice spire]

That’s true

[echo geyser]

George x Arthur is gang shit

[uncut echo]

The show?

[echo geyser]

[spice spire]

True

They’re finally playing together some

[echo geyser]

mr quack's pets

[uncut echo]

🥰

[spice spire]

[uncut echo]

Man, nearly 2 hours of silence

What's up gamers

[wary ice]

Workin

[amber cobalt]

are we bugged or is our damage insane

[echo geyser]

sin is very cracked atm its not just u

[uncut echo]

??

Am I being gaslit

Did something change

[copper hazel]

was there a secret 50% all dmg buff

[amber cobalt]

once a mob hits 50%, it basically dies

[spice spire]

Work time

And define insane damage.
We talking normal mobs or big boss dam

[dark token]

Ye check it out we are almost top dps on wcl

[spice spire]

Have I ever told you how much I love this joke?

[balmy condor]

Warlock setting a good foundation for the tower

[echo geyser]

[balmy condor]

Even on the bottom they’re still useful

[spice spire]

So true bestie.

[balmy condor]

They can’t keep getting away with it

[spice spire]

Speaking of bottoms being powerful, how was your nap?

[balmy condor]

Huh

My nap was fine

I’ve been up and about

[spice spire]

Don’t huh me, papi 🤨

[wary ice]

Is it very much

[spice spire]

It is not

[wary ice]

Oh no ur in the wrong chat quake

[spice spire]

wat

[balmy condor]

yeah bud #outlaw is yonder way

[spice spire]

Friendship with oxi ended, Zac is my best friend now

[balmy condor]

idk who that is

you mean the new guy?

[echo geyser]

zac is outlaw cf with no green name

[spice spire]

He meant oxi ramfam

The herbie

[echo geyser]

oh new herbie

fair enough

[spice spire]

I can’t believe he just got wh ‘d tho

Unreal

[limber dagger]

with amp poison working now, is there a build that is "vailable" on prepatch with it? or does stuff stay unchanged?

[balmy condor]

yeah you could play it over something higher up

like this

[limber dagger]

wait for m+?

[balmy condor]

oh you wouldn't want to play it for m+

like with this build in m+ you could in theory drop iron wire or improved poisons for it

but sounds kinda not worth

you can't reach poison bomb anyway, which is the big boy

in m+ amp and ttk are both sorta just means to an end, the end being poison bomb

or in beta, dragon tempered

[limber dagger]

hmm i see

[cobalt hemlock]

@balmy condor faster than the shopping malls with the christmas hat at start of novemeber

[marble hemlock]

is it time whispyr?

alright

[balmy condor]

push had a christmas hat since like early october

[marble hemlock]

oh god, this makes my profile pop-flash people

[spice spire]

Oh god

I have to do that this year

Unreal

[cobalt hemlock]

give us dog with a christmas hat

[marble hemlock]

dw i fixed

[keen plaza]

is this good for M+?

[balmy condor]

playing without iron wire might as well just not be playing sin

and flying daggers is....ehhhhhhhh

[iron orchid]

take off flying daggers or one point from poisons and take iron wire

[wary ice]

you probably still want 2 shivs tbh

[keen plaza]

i dont know its full for ST

[thin gate]

or drop exsang

[iron orchid]

You have to take exsang so that you can hate it

[balmy condor]

I wouldn't really take it unless you need the enrage

it's good QoL but it's nothing impressive number wise

[wary ice]

neither is assa

[iron orchid]

could also probably drop doomblade if you do not go sbs

in M+

put a point somewhere else

[keen plaza]

if you drop doomblade how are you supposed to go down the tree?

[thin gate]

or just copy paste the posted builds

[balmy condor]

you put it somewhere else

[keen plaza]

oh i am blind too

[balmy condor]

those are beta

[balmy condor]

wowhead has an m+ build which is this

you can swap a point or two but it's the general idea

you got most of it already

[keen plaza]

i have seen the build but i am trying some different talents

[sharp falcon]

is there a bug list anywhere

just want to crosscheck and make sure we have tracked everything that is known or already fixed

[lean fossil]

yay just seen the pin, amp is fixed! guessing its our go to poison now?

[sharp falcon]

for ST yes, or with DTB always one of two

[lean fossil]

aoe m+ atm we would take deadly?

[sharp falcon]

(feel free to correct me if im wrong)

[lean fossil]

i know its memeing to be sin in m+ but it is fun

[sharp falcon]

depends on build, u would still amp in M+ if playing DTB, but if ur IC or smth then probably deadly

[balmy condor]

not atm no, the last ones that got opened were a while ago and people stopped reporting stuff. Most everything is fixed, but the ones that haven't been confirmed are:

• animacharged cp with deathmark duplicates rupture without the added duration (I think this one got fixed at some point)
• Twist the knife's duration increase is applying twice to animacharge cp
• Amplifying poison can't be consumed if there are two rogues using it (this one has been a pain to test lmao)

the mastery/lethality whitelist stuff seems to all be in order as well now

(although you can of course argue that sepsis isn't a poison so why would it be affected by mastery)

[sharp falcon]

Kingsbane + Lethality seems notably missing

very... notably (imo, no?)

[uncut echo]

[balmy condor]

I thought we said it wouldn't

[sharp falcon]

who

me?!

[uncut echo]

Hahaha

[balmy condor]

perhaps?

I'm not sure

should it?

[sharp falcon]

It's a builder

[balmy condor]

is sepsis and sbs on there?

[sharp falcon]

yes

they are

[balmy condor]

then I guess kingsbane should be as well yeah

[sharp falcon]

do they work on live, is that known

dot components included

sepsis / sbs

[balmy condor]

I can go double check

[sharp falcon]

and lethality, and i suppose for that matter, uh what's it called

[balmy condor]

I think so

deadly precision?

[sharp falcon]

deadly prec

yeah

[sick aspen]

Hey Whispyr, do MP and AMP interact?

[balmy condor]

no

[sick aspen]

kk

[balmy condor]

increasing envenom damage, is a damaging effect

and mp says "non-damaging"

[sharp falcon]

well

[balmy condor]

realz don't do this to me man

[uncut echo]

That'd be incredibly awkward tbh

Have you considered the damage amp from amp scaling with mastery?

[sharp falcon]

that one's quietly discluded

no, the damage amp doesnt deal damage

it modifies the damage of another effect, envenom itself is buffed by mastery, that would be double-dipping

[uncut echo]

Valid, was just curious your thoughts

Ty!

[balmy condor]

normal crit damage is 200% right

[sharp falcon]

given that Amp now exists and MP isn't intended to work with Amp's damage bonus effect, a more-correct wording for MP might be something like, "non-damage related effects" or smth like that instead of "non-damaging effects" because yeah, Amp's bonus is indeed non-damaging. But MP isn't supposed to be a damage increase directly

double dmg sure

unless pvp

[uncut echo]

Should be, and 175 for pvp

[whole dew]

!talents

[balmy condor]

is there a reason why my melee crits are doing 210% then

[sharp falcon]

deadly precision seems to correctly add crit to all the appropriate things, lethality should provide bonus to those same things (mut, garrote, sepsis, kb)

[whole dew]

!guide

[prisma monolith]

Assassination Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/assassination-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/assassination-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/assassination-rogue

[balmy condor]

might be averaging back out to 200% I'm waiting for 300 crits

[sharp falcon]

i want to say 'variance?' since there's a 10% band but that's a lot of iterations to still be on the outside edge of the possible band

[balmy condor]

yeh

that was my thinking too

so I'm just afking this dummy for a while more

yeah seems fine

[sharp falcon]

ok so un-detour

sepsis/sbs/garrote etc, dot portions all work correctly with lethality crit bonus?

(if yes, KB fix will be simple/easy)

[balmy condor]

still testing

I got dc'd and can't log back in

[dense cedar]

santa hat in november, very blessed

[balmy condor]

[oblique jackal]

im back in

[balmy condor]

im strugglin man

[dense herald]

Cute full set whisp

[frigid silo]

at least its a good set, kekw

[balmy condor]

ty

[frigid silo]

but im wearing the same one kappa

[oblique jackal]

Whispyr, is it worth it to track amp stacks

[balmy condor]

no

I mean maybe

but probably not

[oblique jackal]

bc it only consumes it on ten stacks

[balmy condor]

the only way it matters is in m+ with CT where you might want to envenom instead to consume it and get a poison bomb proc

which is like sure whatever

[oblique jackal]

is there a way realz could add a highlight buff for the basic UI

or does he not do that?

when it hit 10 stacks haha

[uncut echo]

it doesn't need to be there

Or make your own weakaura

[balmy condor]

yeh it actually doesn't matter

[unreal dagger]

hello my fellow based sin players

[balmy condor]

99% of the time you just let it stack and it just auto-consumes

[spice spire]

Winds of winter syndrome

[limber lion]

Yeh the only real scenario is probably playing mfd and doing env mfd env, which is when you'd want to pool for amp charges before slamming the second Envenom.

[balmy condor]

the incredible double env burst

[limber lion]

Giga even

[balmy condor]

1/3rd a touch of the magi

never before seen

[spice spire]

1/3?

Buddy

[limber lion]

It's the burst Sub is hoping for

[spice spire]

1/30th

4.3 mill at this point

💀

[balmy condor]

[spice spire]

So what if it was a bug

[dull cloak]

is MA currently working during shadow dance?

[balmy condor]

it did last week

[oak sky]

Pain

[spice spire]

🤨

[subtle kiln]

subs linear dps is going to make it unplayable

[uncut echo]

👀

[arctic venture]

guys single target best legendary?

Zoldyck?

or shadows?

[oak sky]

deathly rn

its not too important though

its just prepatch stuff

[arctic venture]

yeah

its bleeding the thing for now?

im trying to fix my build. 😄

[oak sky]

bleeding the thing?

[balmy condor]

sbs and garrote both work, can't test sepsis because irl work calls

[oak sky]

if youre talking about talents or rotation the wowhead guide is good, or icy veins if you prefer

[arctic venture]

Im talking about what is the goal.

a spec with bleeding or posion.

[oak sky]

both

thats sort of the sin identity

a healthy mix of bleeds and poisons

[arctic venture]

nice

tks

[oak sky]

np

[sharp falcon]

is whispyr doin a sleep

gonna risk it

@balmy condor

[balmy condor]

I am not

sleep is not part of my vocab

que paso

[sharp falcon]

it could have waited but am curious

[royal lantern]

always ping whispr, never let him sleep

[random fossil]

Nice

[balmy condor]

ty my gf is mexican I'm basically fluent

[sharp falcon]

how far off is KB on ST sims, and what (theoretically) would be the relative impact of lethality dmg bonus be, if it worked

[royal lantern]

si

[oak sky]

Realz knows his cali degens

[balmy condor]

ah jeez

he asked the question

[vernal adder]

Im gonna ping realz to keep him awake

Jk

[balmy condor]

and I knew it was coming

and I didn't prepare

unlucky

aight brb

[sharp falcon]

also, i assume sims have deadly precision working for KB

[balmy condor]

ye

[random fossil]

Que paso is like 200% better than what's up isn't it

[timid cloud]

¿Por que?

[honest vessel]

what about Que tal?

[oak sky]

Que onda

[subtle tundra]

Oh fuck what is regex

😭

[honest vessel]

string formatting!

Poggers

[subtle tundra]

I hate strings

[honest vessel]

it's a way of coding in a pattern to be recognized by something later

so like if you wanted to match to a string that starts with a, has some number of letters, and ends with d

u could define that with regex

[subtle tundra]

Doing regex for the first time in mySQL

[honest vessel]

fellow future data scientist?

poggers x2

[subtle tundra]

Idk what I'm doing in the future 😔

[honest vessel]

tru tru

u'll get there

future really just comes knockin one day and ur like oh shit waddup

yeah i will move across the country, fuck it sounds good future

yknow

[subtle tundra]

Well databases are funny

[honest vessel]

whys that

[subtle tundra]

They cool

[sturdy merlin]

Regex is a nightmare

[oak sky]

Glad i have no idea what that is

[sturdy merlin]

i guess it's fine if you already know some languages because you get to understand some logic things

but from someone who doesn't code and have to use this, it's a pain

[subtle tundra]

I know on poe I search poe gwennen regex and copy paste the thing

[honest vessel]

its definitely annoying to wrap your head around

im just around the point where you realize how powerful of a friend it can make

[uncut echo]

Fuck computer science

[subtle tundra]

Is she hot 🥺

[uncut echo]

Not as hot as my mom, remember?

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor how much % do you lose again when you take ttb over exsang?

[subtle tundra]

🤓

1.2

[royal lantern]

hmmm

[balmy condor]

numbers at the top, math at the bottom

picture 1 is top DTB sim at 66k
picture 2 is top KB sim at 62k (-6%, 4000dps)

We would currently take 1 point of lethality in the class tree, and adding kingsbane would add about 180 dps per point on lethality from kingsbane directly. That's where the nuance is though because 2/2 lethality is actually currently 130 dps under 1/2 lethality and resounding clarity, so this change would give 360 dps to that setup, which would be a net of 230. By all accounts, probably a drop in the bucket to Kingsbane viability. (also I think the 4 piece works now? Spell data seems okay from wowheads side so these numbers all should be with full effect)

This is the math, feel free to check my work or don't, I think it's accurate I checked it twice

The KB sim has KB itself doing 10.7% (6626) dps at 36% crit rate. If we say that a crit is 200% damage, that means 36% of the time, we do an additional 100% damage, which we can say is equal to 136% total damage. If we then divide 6626/1.36, we should get the normal damage without the crit damage, which is 4872, meaning the difference is the gain we get from crit (1754). We can then just multiply that by 1.1 to find the difference from lethality, which would be 175 dps per point.

The check for this is comparing garrote (which does 9811 at the same crit rate), without the 1 point in lethality, and seeing if it roughly matches up. So without lethality, we're now at 9491, which would indicate 320 dps per point. Garrote does almost exactly 1.5 times as much as kingsbane in this scenario, which if we divide 320/1.5 we get 213 per point. Given we lost crit as well (slightly less cp, directly less damage, etc), the math seems to add up.

[sharp falcon]

oh boy

i suppose i did ask

[balmy condor]

bruh

[subtle tundra]

[sharp falcon]

expected: "idk like 4%" or smth

[honest vessel]

OH IM SO EXCITED TO READ THIS BOOK

[drifting cloud]

TIL our realz is the same guy that pvped in wow and later streamed hs, Im pretty sure I used to watch your hs streams

[balmy condor]

most of it is skippable math cutscene

[sharp falcon]

yes Ryler

[balmy condor]

our Realz

[sharp falcon]

I streamed HS for all of 4months and probably would have continued had I not joined the HS team at that point

I mean, I've said it before, there is no "Rogue Dev" or etc

[balmy condor]

||we're painfully aware||

miss sephuz

[sharp falcon]

tomorrow i might be working on another class, another game system, who knows (not literally tomorrow but in the future, you know what i mean)

[balmy condor]

[honest vessel]

no dont go :c

[sharp falcon]

trying to remember, sephuz is... at bungie? not sure

[balmy condor]

I think so

sephuz was a real one

[honest vessel]

idk kind of a lame legendary

[faint harness]

elitist take

[sharp falcon]

Senior Design Lead, Unannounced Game
@Bungie
. Past: Lead Systems Designer at Blizzard | WoW | Diablo | Hearthstone. AKA Sephuz

[royal lantern]

tbh, that probably means that for most people, ttb is a dps gain over exsang cus you cant mess anything up with ttb, exsang has a big failure chance

still, delete exsangn:)

[balmy condor]

yeah exsang has huge failure chance (max our your bleeds beforehand then press the button every 45 seconds)

[drifting cloud]

all you had to do was fudge the numbers to buffs us like warlocks do whispyr

[balmy condor]

I have more integrity than bm hunter sims

sorry

[royal lantern]

i mean, its more then "dont do anything different"

[faint harness]

Assa by far the best st now or

Sim wise

[balmy condor]

outlaw equal I think

[faint harness]

Nah

[balmy condor]

[sharp falcon]

u mean among rogue specs?

[faint harness]

Ye

[sharp falcon]

ok

[drifting cloud]

wait what did I miss in the last 3days

[raven knoll]

among us

[balmy condor]

I thought outlaw was chilling at 66

are they not

[sharp falcon]

for a sec i was gonna say "lol no" (or maybe "not yet...", you decide)

[faint harness]

64?

[royal lantern]

amogus?

[balmy condor]

after bug fix?

[drifting cloud]

werent you running some 50k sims like mere days ago

[faint harness]

Idk maybe there are hidden outlaw krangled APL fixes

[drifting cloud]

when you had that mental breakdown about bloody mess

[faint harness]

Using shit gear

[balmy condor]

well also dslice

cause we lose dps going from single target to dslice

[faint harness]

Makes no sense

[balmy condor]

which is..... an ongoing process I'm resolving

[honest vessel]

oh god

[balmy condor]

I mean it makes a little bit of sense

[drifting cloud]

yeah 408, but relative I think whispyr said it was like 10% behind back then

[faint harness]

Whispyr with the sandbag

[balmy condor]

it was also before a tuning pass

bro

[faint harness]

[drifting cloud]

the 5% ones and stuff?

it was after that

[balmy condor]

I ain't sadbag shit

[faint harness]

I think assa base profile is like 2k ahead of sub on st

[balmy condor]

yes that's the point

[faint harness]

And the tier set is like twice as good

So massive st gains

[drifting cloud]

no I mean we talked about it after the tuning pass

[balmy condor]

sim now is not equal to sim past

[drifting cloud]

it was literally during the weekend or something

[royal lantern]

sandbaggin rogue tc confirmed

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

Sheeeeesh

[royal lantern]

whisp is actually a warlock player

[balmy condor]

I share too many sims

[faint harness]

Warlock gamer

[balmy condor]

we gettting jumbled up now

[faint harness]

Simming in greens on stream

[royal lantern]

sub main AND warlock player

smh my head

[balmy condor]

IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT GEAR I SIM IN FOR CT LOGIC

[faint harness]

[balmy condor]

I hate you all

[faint harness]

Calma senor

We all know ur the most ethical tc in the game

[balmy condor]

idk bout that

[faint harness]

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

[faint harness]

Maybe fuu is worse, literally asking for nerfs when it’s not even good

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

fuu is a robot

100%logic driven

[balmy condor]

can robots have ethics

[faint harness]

Yes

Omnics can

[drifting cloud]

ok I checked my logs it was 5 days ago and that hyperf0x was talking

and I see hes not in the discord anymore

[balmy condor]

if robots have ethics does that make them sentient

[faint harness]

It does

I think?

[balmy condor]

this is too much for me at 3am

[faint harness]

It’s too much at 12 pm too

[royal lantern]

most emotion i ever saw from fuu was in a private message, when he just said "foreverguy is kind of an idiot"

was about restless crew getting removed

[balmy condor]

I also had a single shot of Jameson and was light headed for a half hour earlier

hate my life

[faint harness]

Weak?

[balmy condor]

weaker than weak

[faint harness]

Unforch

[balmy condor]

drunk stream ends in 20 min

[faint harness]

Are you on stream rn?

[night iris]

Good pin made me chuckle

[balmy condor]

no

[drifting cloud]

so what happened to hyperfox was he done tcing and just left

sucks you cant check their chat logs if theyre not in server anymore

[balmy condor]

idk

[faint harness]

Did he tc

Or just ramble

[balmy condor]

I mean he came in, said "hey play the 3 poison talents at the top fuck shadowstep it's like 0.4% better"

and then chatted a bit

and then left

[faint harness]

What’s the assa 4p in %? I was guessing 6%

[balmy condor]

oh I have no idea

whats 20% of all bleed damage

that's the number

[uncut echo]

Sizeable

[faint harness]

Didn’t it work now

In sim

[balmy condor]

like a lil over 40%?

so then 20% of that

5?

no

wait

brain

[faint harness]

8%??

[balmy condor]

7.5?

[drifting cloud]

is that for both set bonuses combined

[faint harness]

Insane

[balmy condor]

no

still wrong

hold

[faint harness]

2p is 3%

[royal lantern]

mathz

[night iris]

🧮

[balmy condor]

oh it is 8

8*5 is 40

very sick

[faint harness]

Yea I know

[night iris]

[uncut echo]

Pog

We got there

[balmy condor]

lethality math broke me okay

no more math

[faint harness]

It’s rough

[uncut echo]

Only meth?

[faint harness]

Its the jameson talking

[balmy condor]

I helped gf with calc homework, I did the thing

[royal lantern]

not enough money

[balmy condor]

math tomorrow

no math today

have this

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/409072233244524544/1024038425734692937/Gawr_Gura_Minecraft_Moments.webm

[drifting cloud]

was it changed? cant seem to find it ingame but google says increasing your Bleed damage by 2% for 8 seconds, stacking up to 5 times.

[balmy condor]

merrry crimbus

[balmy condor]

yeah and then double that

[drifting cloud]

why are we doubling it

[balmy condor]

it's 4% now

[fleet imp]

8 😂

[faint harness]

By my quick math, assa is ahead by like 7k dps then actual st spec

[drifting cloud]

ok so it was changed

wtf our 4p kinda cracked then

[balmy condor]

yeh

4p is a lil bunker

2p is

something

but 4p is vgud

2p also not that bad honestly

but only cause dtb

[uncut echo]

M+

[balmy condor]

which is stupid

[faint harness]

2p was like 2.5%

[uncut echo]

[night iris]

I thought assass would heavy invest into right side on aoe, but its basically the st tree 4 things different?

[subtle tundra]

Cause ic is bad rn

[honest vessel]

dtb broke

[balmy condor]

[subtle tundra]

In a normal world you play ic

[faint harness]

Idk how assa is ever meant to do any aoe dmg with its dmg profile

[raven knoll]

This is not a normal world

[honest vessel]

god this song is a banger

[faint harness]

Without making st insane

[uncut echo]

Look at feral

[night iris]

Is it a classic case of blizzard tuning?

[uncut echo]

Very similar and they made it happen

[balmy condor]

boof scent of blud

[faint harness]

Yes but that requires new talents and shit

[uncut echo]

No, fundamental class design

[honest vessel]

scent of blood but for ct

[balmy condor]

scale sent uf blud to moon

[uncut echo]

N U T

[balmy condor]

🧀

[faint harness]

If you want to envenom to hit everything

[balmy condor]

add CT to bloody mess

idk

add CT to scent

[honest vessel]

^^^

giga

[subtle tundra]

My mom

[uncut echo]

Ct to scent is the safest way

[balmy condor]

safe isn't fun, ask my gf

pause

[night iris]

Btw wtf is lethality am i dumb, or is it just lethal dose?

[raven knoll]

add CT to all FoK talents

[faint harness]

Ct to scent?

[proper summit]

That sounds like a CT ST angle, or is it not that close

[honest vessel]

nah, talent in class tree

[balmy condor]

lethality is the thing above cold blood on class tree

[uncut echo]

Breeder

[balmy condor]

yesman uncap and CT and we go moon

[faint harness]

Cold blood is sick

[verbal mantle]

[night iris]

I'm blind

[faint harness]

As in terminally ill shit talent

[honest vessel]

tru

make coldblood snapshot

[balmy condor]

or

[uncut echo]

SHEESH

[balmy condor]

don't do that

[honest vessel]

lmao

[drifting cloud]

make coldblood work with exsang

[honest vessel]

imagine the ruptures

the sub ruptures

[balmy condor]

or, hear me out, okay, so we let it be dead

[faint harness]

Exsang pog

[royal lantern]

%more dmg on CT if it hits multiple targets?

[honest vessel]

actual best idea

[faint harness]

I ain’t playing assa if exsang is the best st talent

[balmy condor]

bye push

[honest vessel]

i feel like scent ct sounds sick

[faint harness]

Fix it whispyr

[drifting cloud]

youre not playing assa regardless who are you kidding

[balmy condor]

I CANT I TRIED

[night iris]

no don't tell me exsang is....

[faint harness]

Cook the books

[royal lantern]

stop Putting it into the sims

[balmy condor]

I CANT EVEN COOK THE BOOKS

[faint harness]

I would

[royal lantern]

[balmy condor]

well

I could cook the books

hold on

[honest vessel]

whispyr did you spend more time trying to make exsang look better or make it look worse? hmm?

huh?

[drifting cloud]

whats the last boss you progged as assa push

[uncut echo]

[drifting cloud]

legion?

[faint harness]

Nzoth

8.3 ofc

[drifting cloud]

hmm ill allow it

[uncut echo]

Based

[drifting cloud]

so sub until nzoth or what

[faint harness]

I played assa for 2 years straight, how dare you

[night iris]

Is DTB also the best during pre patch?

[faint harness]

I didn’t touch sub in bfa after the sub gutting

[uncut echo]

Cant get dtb rn

[drifting cloud]

you cant get dtb in prepatch

[subtle tundra]

I will kill regex

[sturdy merlin]

What if exsang works on the next gar/rup you apply ? Probably a terrible idea but it would make it less janky IC+exsang would also be nuts for 10 seconds

[drifting cloud]

which 2 years was it

[night iris]

Why not

[faint harness]

Uldir to SL prepatch

[drifting cloud]

huh ok I was not aware my bad

[raven knoll]

Not enough points

[proper summit]

Likely the 2 years where assa dumpstered every other rogue spec in raids

[uncut echo]

Path the tree for yourself and find out

[faint harness]

Yep

[drifting cloud]

im pretty sure people played outlaw in 8.3

[night iris]

But you can get IC?

[faint harness]

I even played assa in uldir before the nerfs to sub, cus it was fun

[drifting cloud]

I dont remember before that

[faint harness]

Nah only idiots

Sorry any idiot out there

[uncut echo]

Poison bomb is 2 points

[drifting cloud]

in uldir I remember I swapped to assa during hc week or some shit

[uncut echo]

Like I said, path it yourself and see

[drifting cloud]

I played sub before raid came out

[balmy condor]

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rqvamUEmHVEVaL3XQxafDV

books have been cooked boys

don't mind the expert mode

it's not real

it can't hurt you

[proper summit]

Sub was fine in uldir, I played it on fetid and it was good for small slime

[drifting cloud]

I remember getting like r1 on hc second to last boss because nobody was playing it and maybe hotfixes/buffs were already out

[balmy condor]

@faint harness now I'm no longer the most ethical TC

how bout that

[faint harness]

I am proud

You got rid of the exsang nightmare

[royal lantern]

only played sub in uldir for zul(obvious reasons) and ghuun cus i had to solo orbs

[faint harness]

Saved rogue kind

[balmy condor]

and all it took was making exsang a 10 min cd

how bout that

[night iris]

I didn't expect blizz to blue ball this hard

[drifting cloud]

wait its still 408 gear

[balmy condor]

yeah duh

whats it supposed to be

you want 600 ilvl?

[uncut echo]

Lul

[drifting cloud]

ok so why was it 50k

5 days ago

with 408

or was that ds?

[balmy condor]

bro idk shit changes leave me alone

[uncut echo]

It's prepatch, doesn't really matter

[faint harness]

He is also using shit gear still

[drifting cloud]

but youre the one that does them, I remember someone said 5% crit wasnt in

where did the rest come from

[faint harness]

Assa = borked

Bfa st situation

[drifting cloud]

the problem is I havent opened the channel in 5 days, whispyr probably has 3k msgs since then

so our timelines are wonky

[proper summit]

Still guaranteed to cry if not overwhelmingly best in all content

[faint harness]

Who

[night iris]

Dragon in the name makes sense.

[faint harness]

Outlaw?

[proper summit]

Assa

[faint harness]

They won’t be the best in any aoe situation

Unless it’s like

Massively changed

In the last weeks of beta

[drifting cloud]

no ethical padding im doing my best

[faint harness]

I think it’s fine to have strengths

[drifting cloud]

isnt there like 1 st fight push tell me I didnt do any testing

or are most of the fights fake aoe

[faint harness]

2.5

[balmy condor]

yeah so my problem is that in that time gastank did like 25 updates to gear and idk what any of this is and I'm not going to bother checking

[faint harness]

Could be fake aoe

[sick aspen]

just force a connection in your sims from ttb to dashing whispyr, that'll cook them and fix everything 😛

[faint harness]

Eranog is definitely fake aoe

[balmy condor]

and I might've been simming KB or some unoptimized thing

[royal lantern]

st is all that matters, aoe is padding

[balmy condor]

idk man

[proper summit]

I think that the extent to which you require AoE has been overstated for new raid tier. Even if you do need it, you probably just bring a WW or something equally stupid and everyone else does mostly ST

[drifting cloud]

hey no worries dude I know its gotta be hard af to keep track I just remember you said it was 408 gear even then

so Im just asking dumb questions why number go up 15k if gear is same

but doesnt matter

[balmy condor]

15k?

that sounds like talents

I remember I was talking to mr fox about getting to 62k

[faint harness]

I think the only fight where ass is gonna be ass is like council and and broodmother

[balmy condor]

cause we were on the cusp

and that was the 5% crit thing

[drifting cloud]

im gonna scroll up lets see I guess I have wrong number in my head

[balmy condor]

and then I think 4pc got hotfixed in

[drifting cloud]

which easily explains all that

[balmy condor]

so if we were at like 57k

then crit to 62

then tier to 66

[faint harness]

Well also

Amp poison

Mastery interaction

[drifting cloud]

youre right, the number was 60k

[balmy condor]

yeh sure that's like 1000 but that's been fixed in ptr=1 for a while

[drifting cloud]

im stupid sorry

[balmy condor]

I need another shot of jameson

[drifting cloud]

still went up 5k!

[night iris]

Could just make a weakaura that hides Exsang from everyones talent tree

[faint harness]

Tier set

Ryler

[night iris]

Just hide it in there

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

4p wasn’t doing anything in sim like 2 days ago

[drifting cloud]

wait I thought whispyr said 4p doesnt work

[faint harness]

I remember cus fuu simmed all tier sets and the 4p was like 0.3%

[drifting cloud]

isnt that why you were asking

[balmy condor]

it do be doing things now

[drifting cloud]

for the %?

[faint harness]

Well it was only working on instant bleed dmg

Weirdly enough

[balmy condor]

TIME TO GO LOOKIE IF IT FIX

[drifting cloud]

go to sleep

youre gone

[uncut echo]

Whispyr I think its slumper time

[balmy condor]

you say slumper

I say dig through github commits

[faint harness]

das a lot of additions

[royal lantern]

dont tell our sim goblin that

[balmy condor]

?????????

MAYBE?

[night iris]

Yellow melee

[honest vessel]

Yellow Melee

[balmy condor]

me think yellow melee is rogue

but am stupid

[copper hazel]

outlaw infestation

[honest vessel]

it does say assassination rogue no?

[balmy condor]

https://www.wowhead.com/beta/spell=394845/septic-wounds

[hybrid portal]

someone called?

[balmy condor]

idk this looks good though

modifies list

tasty

but maybe the flags are wrong

and idk because : ......xx ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ....x... ..x..... : ........ ........ .....x.. ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........ ..x..... ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ ........ : ........ ........ ........ ........

means actually nothing to me

[honest vessel]

that's clearly uh

uhhhhh

tic tac toe

[copper hazel]

morse code for sure

[night iris]

Requires more zereth mortis grinding

[hybrid portal]

it means outlaw superior

[balmy condor]

also @faint harness you like magic tricks?

[faint harness]

The only thing outlaw is superior at is apm

[faint harness]

Of course

[balmy condor]

prepare to be astounded

I hope you're sitting

[faint harness]

I am

[balmy condor]

observe

as I take this talent tree

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2KJsYSRngyBFyJfrLibwwg

a beautiful talent tree

full of wonder and damage

[drifting cloud]

and exsang

[night iris]

[honest vessel]

[balmy condor]

and I just wave my hand and change a fight type and then say the magic words SPELUDEL DAS NUDEL

https://mimiron.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1iysu3TBNKAbPeV8gypmvi

and poof

the damage disappeared

[drifting cloud]

yo, give it back

[honest vessel]

that was definitely magic

[copper hazel]

ey ey, yo, not like that

[balmy condor]

and now I actually sim the right talents

[leaden garden]

How is asa atm? I usualy play outlaw on my rogue but interested in asa, is the damage alright?

[faint harness]

Hahah wtf was that formula

[sick aspen]

and here I thought he was just going to use Vanish and log off

[balmy condor]

https://tenor.com/view/get-real-get-real-cat-amogus-gif-26005070

[night iris]

Math not important tomorrow I guess

[faint harness]

Can you reveal your tricks mr wizard

[balmy condor]

yeah the secret is sin dslice is so fucked you can just copy paste any talent setup and it's worse

and like

it ain't fucked in the way that I can fix

it's just fucked

[subtle tundra]

Outlaw stole our aoe 😭

[balmy condor]

sin and dslice are like water and oil

I don't get it

[subtle tundra]

Dang pirate

[faint harness]

It’s time to bin dslice

[balmy condor]

yeah

[night iris]

It's a sin

[balmy condor]

0 variance dungeonroute time

chuchu

[subtle tundra]

Sim 2min st, 5 t aoe and 8t aoe

[balmy condor]

sim my balls in your mouth varas

[subtle tundra]

Nice I'm doing regex tho