assassination

[strange python]

I got behind in 6 JYs

[vestal wren]

ah nice

[strange python]

Really hoping for vein and edge from lower diffs as soon as servers up

Hunter in my last group has done 140 holy fuck

[limber obsidian]

No wonder it's kinda not the recommended spec for m+. I have never played outlaw rogue. Been playing as assass. Got 2 set only so far and had 291 Lego and unit belt.
Thought 14k on aoe packs wasn't too shabby.

First time playing outlaw ever and I'm popping over 28k in aoe. And I am still working out what is actually going on.

Thanks for the advice the other day

[vestal wren]

a lot of the power of assassination is in the 4p and its interaction with the dusk legendary

so if you tested the spec without that, your feedback won't be good

[limber obsidian]

I mean. Technically it is good feedback. I asked for some insight. I was given it. It was good recommendation as it's working for what I have.
It was literally a comment to say thanks but no worries man. Have a good day

[vestal wren]

true, things can only get better with 4p

[ebon notch]

i thought maybe necro on soulrender

and KT?

other than that venth kinda bis

[oak sky]

go kyrian on kt

same impact

[ebon notch]

wdym

[oak sky]

its kt bro damage isnt a thing

[ebon notch]

ur not a thing

[oak sky]

its not in all stars

and the only damage that matters is having similar aoe clear to downstairs push timings

[torn atlas]

Do we have any indication on how comparativ the difficulty for Sanctum is to Nathria?

[subtle tundra]

Sylvanas will be easier than denathrius I think

[torn atlas]

We're pretty casual 4hr/w aotc guild, we're only doing normal fated for the Mount, but we cleared 9/10 Nathria on our first night, then blasted Sire and 6 HC bosses on our second night.

[vestal wren]

you will also have more gear

[royal lantern]

ye but fuck sylvanas and that 3hours blockbuster fight

[torn atlas]

Tempting to walk straight into HC

[subtle tundra]

Yea fuck sylvanas with 4 pc can't watch a movie during the fight.

[torn atlas]

But know guild would likely be hesitant on potentially walling ourselves on a reprog of Sylv

[subtle tundra]

Yea I can't judge hc it felt like lfr for my guild

[torn atlas]

Yeah that's how Nathria felt for us haha

We had a moment were council bugged on normal and wiped everyone except for the tanks. DK took about 5 minutes to die from being tickled to death.

[subtle tundra]

the only hard fights are the ones where you have a dance otherwise you wipe

such as denathrius

but thats mythic only

sylvanas you can more or less wing it

[torn atlas]

I'm having some real serious flash backs of countless restarts because people can't dodge rive or find a new hole on P2 platforms to jump in 🤣

[thorn fjord]

Damn Sims are already that high?

Feelsbad LOL... i didnt get any loot this week from M+ or Fated 😦

[pure moth]

Thats some serious bad luck

[spice spire]

KT we’re 100% going phylactery

[subtle tundra]

dogpoop

[thorn fjord]

Due to lack of gear the pirates life is for me. WAAAH

[ebon notch]

monka giga

at least you dont have to hold vendetta

should be up for each phase

[spice spire]

Yeah there certainly is that

[ebon notch]

much more enjoyable

[thorn fjord]

Having 1m vend was really nice for castle

Should be nicer for Sep

[violet jackal]

Oh it will

If your team as two rogues bosses will fall over

[strange python]

It still makes me sad when the whole page is yellow or pink and kt is blue or purple

[violet jackal]

tell your raid lead you are allergic to going downstairs

[night delta]

Just can't fathom how fucked the parses are going to be on Taragrue now with our 4p

[strange python]

Well I'm currently figuring out if I'm in on PS and sylv or not, and if not, we have bigger issues

[violet jackal]

Loot wise I wouldn't ever sit a rogue for either of those fights

[night delta]

Leather meta still strong

[strange python]

I'm our top damage by parse and for raw damage in ST, as well.

This is what happens when a mage does slotting

[gusty mirage]

Idk what to tell you, I got a purple and never saw upstairs once

[strange python]

I had a 98 in sanctum going downstairs. I don't think that'll happen with affixes though

[gusty mirage]

Of course it will

[night delta]

Hey, you never know, affixes might happen downstairs too

[violet jackal]

It will if your raid lead makes good groups 🙂

[gusty mirage]

People pretend like stop dps wasn’t a thing on KT lol

[strange python]

I mean. Or it will be a cache padfest on adds with an affix up.

[violet jackal]

my guild can send 3 people down in a 14 man to balance the damage

[night delta]

For example if it's the dispell one

[toxic quail]

Yeah KT is gonna be 10 times worse now Oxi.

Send help NOW.

[balmy condor]

he's returned!

the best option

[spice spire]

Nah he’s just a good option

[toxic quail]

My guild don’t like rogues. I’m still in enhance prison.

But at least I’m pumping.

But Assa will be mine in DF.

So I ain’t mad.

And then I’ll deathmark whispyrs ass.

[marble hemlock]

psure its plenty dead already, have you smelled it?

[toxic quail]

Have I. 🤤🤤🤤

[spice spire]

HAVE YOU?!

[marble hemlock]

[toxic quail]

I never kiss and tell.

[marble hemlock]

kissing ass

[gusty mirage]

[kindred rapids]

welp, that's enough rogue discord for today

[violet jackal]

You will be back when servers are up

[kindred rapids]

true

[vast loom]

how many "What should i take from my vault" questions

[gusty mirage]

I set the over/under at 50

place your bets now

[kindred rapids]

More like look at how crummy my vault is

[violet jackal]

13

[vast loom]

ill bet 50 jpc channel points on over

[gusty mirage]

I don't want those

you can keep them

[vast loom]

[gusty mirage]

now if they were @echo geyser channel points

[violet jackal]

Sounds like a pirate player barely know them

[kindred rapids]

according to droptimizer there's only a billion items in M+ loot table this season

[balmy condor]

I'm gonna say under

because no one plays sin

[vast loom]

true

[toxic quail]

That’s it I’m posting my enhance vault here just to int.

[kindred rapids]

sure I'll get a mechagon ring or something

[violet jackal]

Damn whispr called me a no one, have I made it yet?

[toxic quail]

I did 69 dungeons and didn’t get my damn haste ring. I got the junkyard one though.

[vast loom]

does vault drop loot based on last weeks kills? so CN gear? or is it any fated bosses that ive killed

which will only be CN this week

[balmy condor]

yes that's the pinnacle of rogue

being called a dumbass by me

[vast loom]

but in the future will it be all 3 loot tables?

[kindred rapids]

They said it was only the bosses you killed that week but I don't know if that's real

[vast loom]

inb4

EoN in vault

[gusty mirage]

as long as you kill all the fated bosses

yes

[vast loom]

poggies

[toxic quail]

I use master poisoner crimson tempest exsang in keys whispyr.

[gusty mirage]

so like if you cleared 10/10 in CN, and 10/10 in SoD, and 11/11 in Sepulcher

[violet jackal]

Just kill last 2 only ez

[balmy condor]

based

[gusty mirage]

your 3 raid slots can pull from any of the 31 bosses moving forward

[toxic quail]

Option makes it work.

[gusty mirage]

GREAT SYSTEM

wOO

[balmy condor]

master poisoner is better than blindside in keys

[vast loom]

monkaS but still chances at EoN in vault is nice

[toxic quail]

Hahahaha see that’s the spirit.

It’s better than something.

[spice spire]

Not even hidden blades

[gusty mirage]

why is your name qtie

[spice spire]

OT

[toxic quail]

No I tried that shit and wanted to do bad things.

[balmy condor]

cause it's accurate

[balmy condor]

brb need a new name

[spice spire]

No man

[vast loom]

i never understoon Hidden Blades, i thought it would be an AoE talent but it seems bad in both AoE and ST

[gusty mirage]

can't relate

[violet jackal]

Same

[spice spire]

What’s it like hating?

[gusty mirage]

it's a shitty legendary that they decided to carry over to BFA that no one asked for

[toxic quail]

But I did use hidden blades on Painsmith with poisoned katar. Hahahaha

[vast loom]

so its just been plaguing SIn for like 6 years

[gusty mirage]

yes

[vast loom]

poggies

[gusty mirage]

it has like specific niches

that you'd play for maximum pad to parse whore

or to be that one dude who plays the FoK one shot build in arena

[vast loom]

in the last 6 years how many times were you unironically taking it

[gusty mirage]

if your name was Gladiator Adelgab

every arena game

[vast loom]

lolol

[limber lion]

6 years?

[vast loom]

6 years might be exaggerated

[gusty mirage]

between 8.3 and 9.0

it's a fair exaggeration

[toxic quail]

Aside from Painsmith meme last time I use Hidden Blades was Hivemind.

[gusty mirage]

people used it for p1 sire pad

[limber lion]

Legion was 5 years ago

[gusty mirage]

assuming their PCs didn't lock up

[limber lion]

BFA introduced HB

[balmy condor]

and my virginity 6 years ago

[limber lion]

As a talent

[gusty mirage]

I mean HB was a legendary

[limber lion]

[gusty mirage]

with how hot you are

doubt

[toxic quail]

Oh yeahhhhh. I remember them degen logs.

[limber lion]

Yes but you're not choosing between a talent and a lego

[gusty mirage]

did people actually play HB leggo?

like

unironically?

[limber lion]

In m+ sometimes yes

And for mage tower

And leveling

[gusty mirage]

ye I remember using it for mage tower

[limber lion]

Yeh was almost essential for sub mt

Or at least made it a lot easier

[toxic quail]

I use Zold for everything to live in my execute rogue fantasy land.

[vast loom]

so Hidden blades will be 4 years old next week, as a talent 🙂

[toxic quail]

People do wires shit.

[toxic quail]

*weird

[gusty mirage]

4 years ago this weekend

yikes

why did BFA feel like it was 5 years long

wtf

wasn't 8.3 like.... 8 months long?

[spice spire]

10

[toxic quail]

Yeah 8.3 felt like a prison.

[limber lion]

January until November

[vast loom]

January 14, 2020 October 13th 2020

[gusty mirage]

[limber lion]

If yoy count the prepatch as an actual patch

Then sure

One scenario

Shadowlands was released Nov 23

[gusty mirage]

yeah prepatch was end of september ye?

[vast loom]

yeah prepatch is like 8.3 and a half lol

[limber lion]

But yeh that's why I don't understand all the hate towards season 4

Much rather have content to do and gear to farm

Than do nothing for 6 months

[vast loom]

im liking s4 tbh its been fun to gear up again

[limber lion]

Yeh

[vast loom]

just killing heroic bosses and doing keys

[gusty mirage]

yeah I mean there was very little upgrades available toward the end of s3

would've ran out of shit to do real quick

and idk if I could handle 4 more months of sanguine depths and top

[vast loom]

they should just say fuck it and give us corruptions for s4 🙂

[gusty mirage]

no they should let the dinars buy mythic level items

instead of making us upgrade them

that's stupid as fuck

[vast loom]

actually true

im not gonna get 20 mythic tokens until they unlock all 3 fateds

and we start doing 3/3/3 for ezpz loot

[gusty mirage]

if it makes you feel better I won't get a mythic token until sepulcher

because of roster size

[vast loom]

i think 20 tokens is too much

i think 1 full upgrade token per full clear should be fine

[kindred rapids]

Some people say season 4 went too far

I say it didn't go too far enough

Honestly I think my only complaint with S4 is that they didn't commit enough resources to it

[vast loom]

they are making changes pretty fast tho

hopefully kara feels more reasonable with the nerfs

[kindred rapids]

They are, a little more testing before release would have gone a long way though

[vast loom]

theres still a lot of jank

[kindred rapids]

Entire specs were broken and we appeared to be doing 15% less damage than we should be

[subtle tundra]

how... so?

if you mean the bugged things at the start of the season in fated raids, blizzard said it was a complicated thing to fix

[violet jackal]

Can we cloak of shadows mass repetance?

[vast loom]

yea

[gusty mirage]

yes

[vast loom]

its big

scars also works i think

[gusty mirage]

any kind of damage

warlocks can use burning rush

[night delta]

Neat

[gusty mirage]

ig in theory shadowmend should work too

@marble hemlock would shadowmend break maiden's repent?

[violet jackal]

can confirm shadowmend works

[oak sky]

Think ive seen priest swd it

[marble hemlock]

not sure

game is a bit weird when it comes to differentiating hp loss vs damage taken

i.e. i dont know if burning rush works either

basically, damage that cannot kill you typically doesnt work for "damage taken" effects or triggers

[gusty mirage]

shadowmend should because you can die from the damage from shadowmend (despite how unlikely that is)

also anyone running OWS should be able to cheese that as well

[marble hemlock]

yeah theres lots of stuff i think

the trick is typically to have people take it staggered

so someone breaks the repentance dfuring the last 2ticks of the debuff

and someone takes right before

so the healer doesnt have to heal 3-5 people with the debuff for 20sec

[subtle tundra]

i forgot how cool last phase denathrius is

honestly best phase of any fight from this expac

[viscid spear]

I AM REVENDRETH

[ebon notch]

how many days did you raid this week

[subtle tundra]

this is 3rd

[ebon notch]

3 days?

[subtle tundra]

got to 20% denathrius

this is the 3rd day!

[night delta]

Denathrius was a chad fight

[subtle tundra]

honestly not even a hard fight, its just a spreadsheet fight

[violet jackal]

isn't that every fight

[desert orchid]

is https://www.wowhead.com/item=142159/bloodstained-handkerchief?bonus=1826:1472 any good?

[violet jackal]

no

[gloomy ridge]

worth turning this to tier.. just got it out the vault?

[brazen zodiac]

dont u wanna turn ur unity into wrist

[brazen zodiac]

hi option!!

[balmy condor]

Sim it

But you would have to put unity on belt as well

[toxic quail]

Hiiii 😍

[brazen zodiac]

how u been <3

[uneven hamlet]

do you guys think is it worth? we will have sylv daggers soon

[vestal wren]

long term not worth probabl

*probably

[spice spire]

304 still pretty juicy tho

Depends on what level you’re doing. Gotta down 20 mythic bosses for an upgrade

So if you’re only doing 2-3 a week, it might be worth for dagger

[uneven hamlet]

this week we might down all bosses on m

[violet jackal]

heroic sylvannas dagger > 304 dagger

[uneven hamlet]

I'll prob wait our m reclear

[violet jackal]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[upper swift]

can i have too much crit? i have 49% rn lol

[balmy condor]

Yes

You definitely can

And that’s definitely a lot

[candid badger]

has anyone run the seems to see what will end up being better mechagon rings with duskwalkers on chest, or CoS ring with duskwalkers on ring?

[brazen zodiac]

uh def the mecha rings

i think

[spice spire]

Mecha rings

[balmy condor]

Every day I wonder why I even bother putting things in the faq

[candid badger]

looked there first, but didn't see it under "x and y" section my b

[vestal wren]

we can make a bot command 😛

[balmy condor]

It’s fine you’re like the 15th person

[vestal wren]

!mechagonringsarewhyweputduskwalkersonchest

[balmy condor]

If that many people can’t find it it’s probably on me for not writing it clearly

[vestal wren]

does that sound like somehting that is easy/fast to type? 😛

[balmy condor]

Acronym it, !mrawwpdwoc

Much easier

[brazen zodiac]

ezpz

[candid badger]

I saw it under the important m+ drops but not the comparison so figured that was all being mentioned about them. So I just needed to keep reading and pay better attention

[vestal wren]

the ring set is quite interessting.
Its rly good on assa
good on outlaw
sub does not give a fuck

[balmy condor]

Yeah I think I just made the post too verbose, people stop reading after the first 3 paragraphs and then are gone

The eternal struggle of finding a way to present all the information needed in a way that also short enough to digest

Too short and you miss info

[brazen zodiac]

hard being a writer

tbh

[balmy condor]

Too long and people stop reading

[candid badger]

you have to consider our pea brain syndrome

[brazen zodiac]

nice article btw whisp

learned a lot!

[balmy condor]

Ty

The articles are probably harder tbh

[spice spire]

Just sneak in 500 words

Ez

[brazen zodiac]

ye took me a bit to digest it all but its the most detailed take out there rn on this stuff so

[balmy condor]

I make an active attempt when I proof read to throw on one liners and shit to make it readable

[brazen zodiac]

def worth the long read

[balmy condor]

4000 words in one sitting is a lot

Especially when it’s about something most people can’t play with yet

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[balmy condor]

But then I can’t just go off the cuff and monologue to break up the density because then it just gets too long without moving it forward

If it were 6000 words but 2500 of them were just to entertain, it would probably be worse to read than the 4000/1000 split I try to do now

Anything more that 25% is just unbearably long, less than 20% is too dry

[brazen zodiac]

theres def a balance

u got it tho!

[balmy condor]

Ty

[brazen zodiac]

lotta information to basically teach

cuz thats what ur doin basically lol

[balmy condor]

Yeh

[brazen zodiac]

its like writing a lesson plan but also trying to make teaching it fun

hard as heck

got the 304 neck from streets pog

i was gonna ask what u got but i forgot ur afk for the season xd

[balmy condor]

“Afk” is a loose term

I’m still spending a lot of time making resources and beta testing

[brazen zodiac]

oh i meant playing this season

nah ur pumpin on the beta stuff

[balmy condor]

Just let’s me shift time from playing to not playing

[brazen zodiac]

ya ty for testing and stuff

[balmy condor]

I can’t escape

[brazen zodiac]

cuz i aint gonna do it

xD

[gray hazel]

What effects are we looking for on the mech rings? Haste proc? Damage one?

[oak sky]

haste proc

[brazen zodiac]

attack from behind gain haste

go pwn pwn

[limber lion]

Discord's fault that we're stuck with one font size

[gray hazel]

Kk thanks!

[limber lion]

Otherwise we could have absolutely massive disclaimers and arrows and shit pointing at the pbvious stuff

[plain jewel]

is bloodstained handkerchief a decent trinket?

[balmy condor]

No

[plain jewel]

aight. ty ty

[brazen zodiac]

i miss tier chest :(

[balmy condor]

Hmmmmm

I have an idea

But it’s probably dumb

Will have to check later

[brazen zodiac]

whats the idea!

[limber lion]

Pictures with massive text instead?

[balmy condor]

The idea is discord doesn’t allow font sizing

But we’re gonna do it anyway

[brazen zodiac]

based

hes unleashed folks

[candid badger]

it’s is kinda crazy though that mecha rings are better than CoS ring even at the cost of losing 304/311 tier chest and having to use tier legs

[balmy condor]

You get 311 tier legs from KT

[oak sky]

@balmy condor

surely its bis now

[brazen zodiac]

loool

[violet jackal]

maybe temporary bis for an offtank

[fleet whale]

I mean that is a lot of verse

[violet jackal]

still going to die if you run into a ball

[thorn fjord]

ayooo

Everything else was trash

[leaden hornet]

logic loop of synergy, if oyu heal a target under 50% . lol wat

why did i even roll that. healer ing

[thorn fjord]

So where are we putting Duskwalkers now?

[violet jackal]

#assassination-faq

[thorn fjord]

heard

Damn i got got

[violet jackal]

wait it's not updated but the question is silly isn't there only 2 options where you can put it

[balmy condor]

it is

literally in bold

right at the top

the very first point

[thorn fjord]

Yee i saw it

Party on Wayne

[violet jackal]

can you make the font bigger

[thorn fjord]

lets hope my server doesnt want to charge an arm and a leg for the leggo bp

[balmy condor]

die

[main solar]

Since we were talking about more connections on the tree earlier, thoughts on maybe making Improved poisons a 3 prong, connecting with Improved shiv (seemingly 2nd shiv charge if they swap), and improved Garrote as well as Atrophic poison? Would make the commitment to go down that middle path more flexible

[brazen zodiac]

lmfaoo

[subtle tundra]

yes, this is meant as a flex

[ebon notch]

wait who

[subtle tundra]

its ilvl parse

dw

[red tinsel]

Agree with the Thistle Tea, really needs to be changed to something else, otherwise we might see Assa just going Shadow Dance which tbh should also just be a Sub ability

[limber lion]

Well, 2 points. First of all Thistle Tea has nothing to do with Shadow Dance, so that sentence makes no sense. Secondly, Shadow Dance is no longer a "sub ability", so tough luck.

Get used to it.

[fleet whale]

that's a little rude don't you think
I think he's trying to say that he hopes that tea is either made better or replaced with something better, so that he isn't "forced" to use dance all the time

[gloomy ridge]

is this locked to this weeks fated raid loot?

[lusty narwhal]

Probably

[nimble thicket]

Unclear but heavily implied from how they have setup Fated rotation and when they unlock them this quest would be loot from any.

[gusty mirage]

seems that way

everyone I know including myself has gotten sod loot

[ionic kiln]

I received 298 Dreadfire Vessel from the weekly quest.

Other people in my guild received SotFO loot in the weekly quest.

[gusty mirage]

can't wait to get 3 of the shitty vers mastery rings now

[brazen zodiac]

i got jailer neck

from it

[drifting cloud]

screenshot?

[gusty mirage]

do you need confirmation that jailer loot drops from it?

[drifting cloud]

I know jailer loot drops from it, but is he saying he got jailer neck from this weeks box or

[brazen zodiac]

yeah i did

[drifting cloud]

I guess that probably means once we get fated vault mythic kills in you will be able to get any item in vault every week

[gusty mirage]

no

[brazen zodiac]

wait when you mean box do u mean the weekly from the dude in front of the vault

[gusty mirage]

the weekly quest bro

lol

[brazen zodiac]

sorry im confused

hi oxi

[gusty mirage]

no ryler's confused

[brazen zodiac]

how are u

[gusty mirage]

eu brain

[drifting cloud]

no im not youre just missing my 2nd point

😄

[gusty mirage]

he thinks you're talking about your vault

[gloomy ridge]

i got lucky in lfr today

[brazen zodiac]

oh haha

[drifting cloud]

it was 2 seperate things, I saw oxi wrote about only seeing sod loot in the box, but I missed the 2nd part when somebody else wrote about getting a CN item from it

thats why I asked for the pic

[brazen zodiac]

ah

gotcha gotcha

[gusty mirage]

you're lucky you're cute ryler

[drifting cloud]

and then since the box drops items from all 3 raids that means the vault probably will aswell

once you have the kills

[gusty mirage]

yea that was confirmed

[brazen zodiac]

epic

[gusty mirage]

if we kill all 31 bosses

[drifting cloud]

yeah its just a little funny

you might get gear faster upgrading it with mythic tokens

than from vault

with bad luck

now I can get 9 ring, fatescribe ring and some other ring in vault EVERY WEEK

[gusty mirage]

just admit it, you can't wait to get xymox ring, fatescribe ring, and halondrus ring

KEK

[drifting cloud]

wait does halondrus drop a ring

[gusty mirage]

ye this piece of shit

[drifting cloud]

sick

[gusty mirage]

and the tarragrue bracers

don't forget those

[granite widget]

wait can you upgrade LFr to heroic/mythic with the 20 item thing

[gusty mirage]

yes

[granite widget]

Or only normal+

[gusty mirage]

any fated item

[granite widget]

yooooo

lfr sylv def worth then

[drifting cloud]

yeah its pretty much a dinar item, but once you have all those items

youre just timegated by the upgrade currency

or actually looting the mythic version (lmao good one)

[gusty mirage]

don't worry

it took my guild 13 kills to see one sylv dagger drop

by that time me and the other rogue both had two

so we gave it away for tmog

[drifting cloud]

I only looted one total

but im only rogue, also gave it away for tmog

I never got the str 1h from KT for tmog tho

[gusty mirage]

great loot system

[drifting cloud]

you need that for your main spec oxi

[gusty mirage]

👍

[drifting cloud]

sylvannas looks harder than sire

ngl, but not sure how strong liquids splits are

[brazen zodiac]

at least yall looted ur own eon

32 weeks

its crazy how many people dont know they can click off the nf slow fall debuff

8 minutes to fall down upper kara zzzz

[spice spire]

[grizzled jay]

Eviscerate nerfed by 10% in PvP

[limber lion]

Both things that don't belong in #assassination

[brazen zodiac]

u dont belong in ass

<3

u playing this season cev?

[trail otter]

Love this, but I might be in the minority of hating blindside. I'd prefer not to be forced to play blindside. Other than that I love the tree

[limber lion]

Yes

[empty hinge]

when u got mecha rings how much of an upgrade were they @limber lion dps wise

[sharp falcon]

Is there something currently that is making you feel truly forced to play blindside?

[oak sky]

yo realz do you have any thoughts on 3 point nodes

[sharp falcon]

no, brain empty

[oak sky]

like personally i dont mind them in principle but it does feel like 3 is a lot compared to other trees

[trail otter]

Less of currently feeling like having to play it vs running into a blindside meta because the pathing would be very good for it

Obviously a lot of things depend on tuning

[limber lion]

300ish

[balmy condor]

I don’t know if the pathing is honestly that great for it

[trail otter]

I mean is there a world with no Maim, Mangle?

[balmy condor]

Yes, easily

Maim mangle is awful numerically

Tiny toxic crushes it into the dirt with no effort

[night delta]

Am I missing a /s or is Whispyr praising Tiny toxic

[balmy condor]

I hate tiny toxic as a design

But I’m not going to say it’s a bad dps gain when it isn’t

The only way maim mangle sees play is combined with doomblade on the other side of the tree

And even with that, I’m not sure it beats tiny toxic

So if you’re going some kingsbane type thing, with that proposed pathing, you’re talking a point of maim, then blindside, and you’re pseudo-forced into doomblade to make maim somewhat decent

That’s 3 points

When you could just tiny toxic

That seems like a pretty reasonable alternate path honestly

[night delta]

I mean, we'd be also moving through Blindside, which could be decent depending on ambush tuning, but I get your point

[kind talon]

Hard to see a world without doomblade given the nature of the bleeds talent assuming they work together

But yeah kingsbane seems fun I’m excited to try it out

[balmy condor]

I disagree

Doomblade in alpha tree is just the mutilate bleed

Not the envenom buff

Envenom buff was like 50-60% of the value of the legendary

[kind talon]

Isn’t it an extra 2% damage just from the bleed talent

In ST

Seems like a very valuable point

[balmy condor]

Even if it interacts with lethal dose, that’s buffing only bleeds and poisons for 2%, let’s call it 1.5% total dps

[kind talon]

That was just my impression tho

[balmy condor]

When the legendary was 8% and 5% of it was envenom buff

So just based on rough math, you’re looking at doomblade with interaction landing maybe 3.5-4%

[kind talon]

Lethal dose doesn’t increase all damage?

[balmy condor]

No

[oak sky]

had to get nerfed

[kind talon]

Did it get changed

[balmy condor]

Yes

[kind talon]

Oof

Nvm then

[balmy condor]

And it probably needs another nerf as well honestly

[kind talon]

Yeah

It’s nuts

[trail otter]

@balmy condor What's your current ST raid build atm?

I don't think the link in pins is updated unless I'm mistaken

[balmy condor]

Yeah haven’t done those yet, but my wowhead post goes over some ideas

[night delta]

Doomblade and maim mangle will end up strong on their own only if Mutilate ends up doing more damage than right now

[balmy condor]

It’s fairly standard though

Go down left, grab kingsbane, then go down right

Pick up random stuff with remaining points

[oak sky]

sample

[balmy condor]

If you want to do dtb, you go down middle, then go down left, then go down right

Yeah something like that was my burst idea

You get all the burst buttons imaginable

[trail otter]

So you're taking blindside?

[oak sky]

maybe

[balmy condor]

Ye in that one

[oak sky]

who knows

[trail otter]

hmmmmmmmmmmm

Interesting

[balmy condor]

Could just as easily take poison bomb/ shrouded

The last 4ish points are just throw them wherever

[trail otter]

I want to preface with I'm really nitpicking but I really like the current state of the tree but the things I would change are:

[balmy condor]

Could pick up dashing as well if you cut some points

[grizzled jay]

Blindside was changed to include Ambush so Blindside can proc itself now. It's slightly stronger than current iteration. Maybe still not pickable cause we might not need the energy management it brings, but still stronger if we do.

[balmy condor]

Blindside really depends on how strong ambush and generators are versus how strong poison bomb/dashing/shrouded is

There’s also the thing that doomblade and maim both don’t work with ambush atm I think

I know some stuff changed but I don’t think those did

So there’s some questions about blindside

But there’s way too many tuning knobs to know for sure

[oak sky]

maim does doomblade doesnt

[balmy condor]

Aha

[night delta]

Blindside procing off itself wouldn't be much of a headache though. Just like nowadays : don't fling the ambush instantly if you are close to CP or energy cap, instead weave it in after next finisher

[whole mason]

don't forget that blindsided also leads to FW

[oak sky]

we would play fw either way just to get dance

[trail otter]

Also want to say this is my personal opinion, This is in order of what I value:

1) I think Seal Fate should be more mandatory and not dependent on which pathing is better. I enjoy the feel of it, at the end of the day it's just a personal preference kind of thing.

2) BFA Assa was my favorite version. I would enjoy shrouded suffocation being more mandatory like my point about Seal Fate.

3) From an arena player's perspective I feel like Deathmark could be super clunky during goes. I haven't had much time to keep up with changes because of school + work so I may be mistaken but deathmark is on global AND doesn't auto apply a new Garrote + Rupture correct? I think Deathmark being on global is fine if it auto applies a second rupture and garrote.

4) I'd prefer if wound poison was a thing again in place of Hemotoxin. Either by removing hemotoxin or maybe changing it?

5) Again a personal preference thing but blindside play style feels very clunky to me.

I could write a book about the things I like about the DF tree though

[balmy condor]

Isn’t wound poison baseline

What even is hemotoxin I can’t find that on the tree

[trail otter]

It's PvP talent lol

[whole mason]

PvP talent

[balmy condor]

Oh no wonder I have no idea then

[whole mason]

Shiv gives 40% reduction of healing

[night delta]

Next we'll be talking about death from above

[trail otter]

I'm saying, the existence of hemotoxin makes wound less relevant and I like the idea of having a stronger wound for more pressure instead of having bigger goes

[balmy condor]

Doesnt improved wound poison fill that space

[whole mason]

DfA is gone forever I think. Permanently a PvP talent

[trail otter]

I would like to make use of the Imp Wound poison and Master Poisoner nodes

Nah it's not worth taking imp wound

[night delta]

Don't wound and the shiv heal debuff stack ?

[whole mason]

No, they don't stack

[balmy condor]

We’re all slowly finding out that no one really pvp’s and we’re all just guessing

[whole mason]

But we have talent for 5stacks of wound, right?

[trail otter]

They do not stack

Hemo and wound

[whole mason]

That would be like 35 permanent healing reduction?

[balmy condor]

Yeah you have to talent to 5 stacks

Would be 40%

It’s 3 base

[trail otter]

Like I said, these are personal preferences but I've played a lot of assa over the years. Currently hemotoxin makes me feel like I'm just playing warrior with sharpen

[whole mason]

40?

[balmy condor]

8% per stack

8*5 is 40

[whole mason]

I believe it was 7 per stack?

Okay, that's good news

[night delta]

Tbf heal reduction in pve can be pog

[whole mason]

8per stack

[balmy condor]

Wowhead says 8 dunno

[night delta]

As demonstrated this season

[sharp falcon]

using wound reduces the value of hemotoxin on top, going from 24 to 40 for a limited window. If you prefer wound to the point where removing hemotoxin is a good option, why not just not take hemotoxin? Maybe I misunderstand.

[balmy condor]

I’ve never used wound poison in my life because I wouldn’t be caught dead pvping

[sharp falcon]

8x5 = 40 yes, but cut in half for pvp = 20, but non-dmg effect +20% = 24% end result

[trail otter]

Maybe if there's better pvp talents to take?

[balmy condor]

[trail otter]

But there's almost no reason not to take hemotoxin

[balmy condor]

Pvp modifiers

[whole mason]

This is quite the same to the live numbers.

[sharp falcon]

Those are the live numbers, yes

[grizzled jay]

the thing about people who say 'i like bfa sin' is really 'i like when sin is haste capped'

which really means 'i like when sin apm goes up'

[trail otter]

That's making a lot of assumptions

The reason I liked BFA assa was because of the opener and having strong garrotes that's really all to be honest

made the opener smoother and vanish garrote felt satisfying

[balmy condor]

To be fair, 99% of people who liked bfa sin exclusively quote ny’alotha with 800% haste

[trail otter]

Shrouded Suffocation + Subterfuge I should specify

[grizzled jay]

making something that takes up 20s of a 10m encounter smoother is like the smallest difference

[trail otter]

So every fight in this game is a 10m encounter?

[fleet whale]

there are different iterations of BFA assassin

[grizzled jay]

and also, SS did still make sin apm go up by having higher cp generation in opener/vanish windows.

[sharp falcon]

assassins woke up today and chose violence

[fleet whale]

like BDA and EP assassin was more about hard hitting envenoms and mutilates (double dose)

[trail otter]

I remember even in BFA we were still lowest APM or close to it

So I dont understand why that's an issue

[balmy condor]

“Woke up” yeah…. I woke up….

[trail otter]

But back to my other point, not every encounter is a 10m single target fight

[balmy condor]

Definitely not 2am

[grizzled jay]

Whispyr is a woke zoomer

[night delta]

The opener, burst and execute windows are the most memorable parts of DPS ing though

So of course making them feel good is memorable

[grizzled jay]

for me it's the middle of the fight i have the most fun. that's where the brunt of the mechanics are.

[trail otter]

Opening on AOE pulls, arenas, and vanishing was significantly more satisfying in my opinion because of SS + Subterfuge

[fleet whale]

I may be in the minority here, but i think in DF assassin may have too many buttons

[trail otter]

Maybe my perspective is different because I play assa in all content instead of just raid

[fleet whale]

depending on talents

[grizzled jay]

no rogue in general does

we have a lot of hotbar bloat from class tree

[fleet whale]

like MFD and CB at once... is a little weird

[trail otter]

I personally like MFD + CB, but I truly understand the perspective of it being too much

[night delta]

I'll bake half my cooldowns into macros tbf

[trail otter]

I could go either way, whatever you guys want I would back you guys up

[grizzled jay]

Sin can gain, potentially:
Tea
Gouge
Dance
ER (if you take it alongside another Covenant)
CB

just from the class tree

[fleet whale]

I remember the days assassin was the easy chill spec

[grizzled jay]

then we go into spec tree and gain potentially KB + Exsang

[trail otter]

I've always thought that was combat

/ outlaw

[grizzled jay]

so Sin will gain, if you wanted, 7 more buttons as compared to now lol

[oak sky]

you can never take all 3 of tea dance and er

what

[grizzled jay]

6 if you count "losing" the Covenant utility ability and replacing that keybind with one of the talents now

[sharp falcon]

In a fantasy world that doesn't exist, and definitely does not represent any promises or plans... what if MFD and CB nodes were choice nodes with passive options? How much would that help, in this theoretical world that doesn't exist and does not represent any promises or plans

[fleet whale]

well, you would need to make a new talent to replace a node

but in that world, CB may need to do more

since MFD be nature is more versatile

[trail otter]

I'm completely down for that, OR how about one side choice node of CB / MFD other side Seal Fate / something else? Lethality?

[grizzled jay]

Maybe just move MfD and CB back to their respective (usual) specs instead of being in the class tree. and have those nodes be utility.

there's throughput above and below those nodes, they don't have to also be thoughtput

But, as an option:

[sharp falcon]

Varolyn perhaps you misunderstand but I don't mean MFD+CB as a choice node, I mean MFD+(some_passive), and CB+(some_passive)

[trail otter]

Realz I don't want to pour all my ideas at ya but my opinion would be CB / MFD choice node where CB is now (fits with sub side) and then choice node of Seal Fate / Lethality where MFD is now (fits with assa)

[oak sky]

low key i think sin could do with like 2 more passive talents somewhere but i dont have ideas so im satisfied with how it is

[grizzled jay]

Put Vigor in place of MfD, Deeper in place of CB. Have Lethality link to Tea and Alac link to Dance.

This would help I think.

[fleet whale]

oh i see

my bad

[balmy condor]

This is the correct take

[fleet whale]

and yes that could be a good idea, would obviously need to see what the passives would be

[grizzled jay]

Move MfD to being in the Sin tree (in place of Cut to the Chase as the M+ option linking to PK). Move CB back to the Sub tree wherever it goes.

[oak sky]

and when i say 2 i mean literally 2

[trail otter]

no MfD for sub?

[sharp falcon]

tmb is also right to some extent, that row in the core tree where mfd/cb are could easily be a utility row (the amount of throughput in the core tree is actually a bit restricting, compared to other classes, it's a lot atm)

[balmy condor]

Pls no don’t make me play mfd

[grizzled jay]

idc where abilities go. i just want them out of class tree.

[night delta]

I could see MfD alongside a Crit-related passive as choice, and CB alongside a CP-generation passive

If you catch my drift Realz

[balmy condor]

My hot take is mfd and cb should be pvp talents

[trail otter]

OOF

I mean that's fair

[grizzled jay]

my hot take is both abilities are lame and should just be deleted from the game

[balmy condor]

CB has not lost anything being on my hot bar in pve

[trail otter]

Okay, I see we have vastly different opinions hahah

[night delta]

MfD too much of a good pexing talent to be locked behind warmode

[trail otter]

I'd be down to vote for you guys to have CB / MfD get moved to the class trees

I'd say pvp talents but we're already limited with 3 choices

[balmy condor]

Mfd I can live with but CB is one of those awkwardly old-style talents similar to thistle tea that just don’t make sense to me in current year

[trail otter]

Well back in the day CB was for evis assa

[grizzled jay]

i understand the "neuron activation" of getting sick MfDs in an AoE pack or off adds, etc. but in reality the ability for it to do that just takes power away from baseline AoE capabilities.

[oak sky]

i dont think we need cb

but im cool with mfd

[balmy condor]

Yeah that’s what I mean, that doesn’t exist

[grizzled jay]

and then when you don't get that sick nasty MfD chain, it feels worse.

[trail otter]

Yeah I completely agree that CB feels fun with Evis, not really envenom

[balmy condor]

The only way CB is useful on sin is if it works with bleeds

[fleet whale]

i mean, we have had times of envenom hitting really hard

[trail otter]

I've hated those times : p

I swap to feral

[balmy condor]

And otherwise it’s just “your mut is FOR SURE 4cp (if you take seal fate)”

[trail otter]

and then hate those times more

Am I the only one that wants to ensure seal fate is a thing? : (

and SS

I feel paranoid about it

[fleet whale]

I'm pretty sure assassins are gonna take SF

as CP generation will be terrible without it

[night delta]

We make so little combo points without seal fate

[trail otter]

Also I really understand thistle tea, but I personally would prefer vigor or another ability over thistle tea

[fleet whale]

you would pretty much have to take Blindside to make up for the cp loss

[vast loom]

I think its fine to have points that are "expected" to be taken for certain specs

like dance for sub

or sealfate for sin

[night delta]

But not that low on the class tree tho

Imo

[grizzled jay]

Imp. Ambush Blindside build

[trail otter]

I completely agree with this, except I think some "expected" ones we are leaving up to interpretation and they aren't truly in spots where they are "expected"

[fleet whale]

so you want us to turn into melee frost mages?

lol

[grizzled jay]

no comment

[fleet whale]

it's hard to see a scenario in which we don't take SF

[trail otter]

Also realz, I'm in CS right now and want to take the game design path do you have any career tips @sharp falcon : )

[night delta]

I miss glacial spike

[trail otter]

Or life advice

[sharp falcon]

Am I allowed to ask how old?

[trail otter]

24

[sharp falcon]

(not really that relevant just curious context)

[fleet whale]

maybe when we are fresh level 70s we don't take SF cause our gear and crit rating will be crap

but i don't see that lasting long if it even happens at all

[balmy condor]

Lot of crit on the tree tho

[grizzled jay]

doesn't MA fix that, realistically?

plus lethality

[fleet whale]

yeah i forgot about that

nvm then

[oak sky]

i definitely would prefer that seal fate is in our build because its such an iconic spell but like if it isnt im not gonna lose any sleep ove rit

[shell cloud]

I really like assasination gameplay on raid environment I’m kinda ok but I sucks on m+s to this point I’m afraid to play them 😂 Is there any guide how to play assa in dungeons? Thank you 🙏🏻

[balmy condor]

Lethality

[night delta]

Lot of builder crit yeah

[balmy condor]

3% crit!

!!!

[grizzled jay]

3!!!!

[fleet whale]

@oak sky you say that now, but I guarantee you would not like how sin would feel without SF lol

[oak sky]

i mean if we get enough generation from other sources in single target i bet its fine

[balmy condor]

Well, if you like the gameplay in raids, I have good news for you

You do the exact same thing in m+ except when you have a bit of free time you also hit other things with rupture and garrote

[oak sky]

(blindside)

[shell cloud]

I don’t know what to do on large minion packs

[balmy condor]

Usually cry

[shell cloud]

😭

[balmy condor]

Yeah there ya go

That’s the spirit

[oak sky]

carnage garrote garrote garrote rupture fok fok ct

[balmy condor]

Well atm no carnage

Just Depression

[sour wraith]

why garrotes after carnage though

[balmy condor]

Cause carnage duplicates them

[sour wraith]

orly

[balmy condor]

And you want to use your subterfuge garrotes

[balmy condor]

That’s the point of the talent yeh

[grizzled jay]

@sharp falcon What are your thoughts about moving Amp. Poison more up the tree so someone could realistically choose that without wanting to take DTB?

I know theoretically you can do that right now in the KB ST build (you just move the solitary TTK point over to Amp) but that just becomes a numbers game (which provides more DPS). If Amp. was in the top of the tree in place of something like CttC you could tech into it for a point and not feel like you are taking the "wrong" point late in a tree.

[night delta]

Why multiples though ? Does IC not spread subterfuge ?

[balmy condor]

Because you still have 2 seconds left and IC hit 2/15 mobs

[sour wraith]

dang i thought they were mutually exclusive, so a carnage rupt/garrote meant using natural ones would be useless

[balmy condor]

It is

[sour wraith]

im confused then

except for range thing

[fleet whale]

wait do we even need to take subter in DF
i thought the talent improved garrote essentially replaces subter

[night delta]

Well yes, but I bet it's not missing most targets by design though

As you so eloquently argued

[balmy condor]

Sure

It’ll still whiff though

[oak sky]

but you can choose it without going dtb

[balmy condor]

If it hits everything then yeah maybe not worth

[night delta]

Not if it's fixed

Yeah

[balmy condor]

In bfa it was still worth to cast those garrotes though with shrouded to extend them

So

We’re back to that then

[grizzled jay]

you 'can' but if numerically it is weaker than TTK then it isn't really a good choice. the idea of moving something up the tree is it takes up less budget in your build than something further down the tree.

[main solar]

What happened to that old pic/mockup of swapping MFD with Vigor and CB with Deeper Strat

[oak sky]

amp poison is a talent thats supposed to theoretically beat having deadly in a pure st setup

[sour wraith]

@balmy condor have you tested if carnage will apply imp garrotes when used from stealth?

[oak sky]

and ttk to me is a cleave talent for when your uptime on envenom would be lower

[balmy condor]

I have not tested much yet because I was waiting on stuff to get implemented

Probably testing tomorrow

[sour wraith]

fair enough

[vast loom]

@sharp falcon Another suggestion i would have for the middle tree would be potentially making the capstone something Envenom related, i feel like it would have a better theme as a "path" rather than just a double poison passive capstone (although some people might like a more passive/easy option).

[grizzled jay]

DTB is really good thematically imo

[balmy condor]

Deathmark was completely broken when I did some keys last week so I just kinda logged off and waited

[main solar]

Just got alpha the other day but havent had much time to test either with S4 being brand new

[night delta]

Yes, great stuff that DTB

[sour wraith]

broken mechanically or damage wise

[balmy condor]

Yes

[sour wraith]

xd

[balmy condor]

It didn’t dupe the bleeds and the dot was doing 1.5%

Still better than kingsbane I guess

[grizzled jay]

honestly what would make Amp. Poison really cool is instead of its current effect you "made" a Poison. Give us a selection of like a few things to "mix together" to create some kind of custom poison. You get to select one utility effect and one throughput effect and mix them into an enhanced Lethal Poison. Then DTB allows you also access to another one!

[balmy condor]

0.2% unhasted dot hitting for 140 a tick

[fleet whale]

I hear evokers are doing broken damage in alpha

[balmy condor]

Was a weird time last week

[night delta]

Vanilla flashbacks

[balmy condor]

Yeah I was getting smashed by heal evokers constantly

[sour wraith]

wouldn't be a hero class otherwise 🙂

[balmy condor]

They have this passive where they heal and their breath gets stronger

And they just stack it to hell

And then blow a pack up

[fleet whale]

damn that's fistweaving on steroids lol

[vast loom]

!bos

[prisma monolith]

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[balmy condor]

I was doing like 11k dps and the heal evoker was hovering around 13

[trail otter]

What's the common consensus on thistle tea btw?

[balmy condor]

Was good

[fleet whale]

it's not good

[main solar]

I dunno, I kind of like the idea of Amp poison just buffing envenom and making it actually do some meaningful damage

[grizzled jay]

we won't know til we know how our energy regeneration is at full power

[balmy condor]

Janky bad

Thistle tea hasn’t been good in like a decade

[grizzled jay]

if we are constantly starved for w/e reason going into Deathmark windows it can be good. if we have energy issues that can be alleviated with some simple pooling or just don't have any at all, pretty pointless.

chances of the first happening are really tiny

[trail otter]

I'm more so asking in terms of opinion of the feel or thought of having to take thistle tea

[grizzled jay]

rather just put that point in like vigor lol

[balmy condor]

I mean the thing is if you’re going for a bursty setup, Deathmark is your energy

If you’re going for dtb, dashing will crank energy

[trail otter]

I feel the same way

[night delta]

It's more of a flavour talent than a thoughput one at this point

[grizzled jay]

ye whispyr is on the path

[balmy condor]

Thistle tea then is for outside of cds

[grizzled jay]

and if somehow you need more, you can just take blindside too

[balmy condor]

And at that point it’s like why

[trail otter]

Deathmark doesn't auto apply a 2nd garrote or rupture AND is on gcd correct?

[grizzled jay]

so our spec tree solves energy. tea doesn't do anything.

[balmy condor]

Correct

[trail otter]

I thought that was what I saw in pins and chat but wanted to double check I interpreted it correctly

[grizzled jay]

ye its all subsequent applications

it dupes once the debuff is out, the debuff itself doesn't do any duping

[trail otter]

Maybe PvP talent that makes it auto apply 2nd rupture + garrote? Pog?

Also I can provide more PvP specific feedback for assa if needed

[grizzled jay]

Tea is a PvP talent for Sub I am assuming but I heard #pvp hates it existing lol

[night delta]

Why not sepsis while we're at it lol

[grizzled jay]

since you have to go down the "Sin" side for Tea

[sharp falcon]

Sure, some quickfire advice. Also if you're quite serious and want a follow-up we could chat sometime, DM me.

• A degree is good. It's not required, but any degree that can apply to any element of the work you'll inevitably do in a Game Design position can be relevant -- e.g. CompSci // Programming, Creative Writing, Math, Statistics, Psychology, and probably many more. If you're enjoying school at all, stick with it, it will help.

But! A degree isn't everything. Recruiters and interviewers want to see experience as well, and there are two major pieces for that as it relates to (presumably entry-level) Game Design positions:

-- General work experience. If you have work experience on your resume and can speak to it, especially any job held for over a year, proves some amount of being able to play well with others and shows while working there you were someone they wanted to keep around. Very generic, but I tend to think it comforts recruiters and interviewers and dispels any major worries someone might have

-- Game Design experience. For entry level, this doesn't mean industry experience specifically (although industry experience specifically does cover both of these points at once). Basically, the advice I can give is to make stuff. Make up a game with a regular deck of cards, get friends to play it, ask for their feedback and improve that game if possible - and be able to communicate that experience and what you learned from it. Or make mods to existing games (with the same playtest/feedback/iterate/learn/communicate loop as before). Or start some free tutorials in your free time that teach Unity or Unreal and code up a little demo concept. Or look out for internship opportunities, many of them are paid and are direct game design and game development industry experience all at once - great if you can do it. Any of this is your answer for what "Game Design" experience you have, and that doesn't always mean direct industry experience.

I ran out of characters

[grizzled jay]

here i thought you were typing a nice essay about our discussion

[night delta]

Realz keepin it real

[grizzled jay]

when keeping it real gets too Realz

[sharp falcon]

It's also worth noting that Game Design is not the most lucrative career path available from the starting point of a CS degree. Even while staying in the games industry (and having options available outside of it at the same time), engineering (generally) or other more specialized positions are going to earn a good bit more on average than a similarly-titled game designer. I don't mean to discourage, but it is certainly true at least most of the time

[trail otter]

Thanks so much! I really really appreciate it. Yeah I decided going for a degree because I personally felt it would be easier to break through the wall of the gaming industry. I agree it's not needed but it helps a lot from my experience.

Also, where do you find good internships opportunities? I've found it fairly hard because most of them are listed on only their site and I would have to know about them before hand to even apply for one

[grizzled jay]

ye making engines that games run on makes way more than actually designing the game itself xd

[night delta]

Like making railroad was more lucrative than running trains

[trail otter]

I'm aware. I'm not entirely sure if game design would be what I directly go into since software engineer is a possibility and more lucrative, but it is what I am most passionate about

[grizzled jay]

if you want to do both join Valve. it's pretty much a requirement at Valve that you do everything.

[sharp falcon]

For internships I know I said it was a good thing but I also don't really know how to guide you for that. I'd like to think studios have relationships with colleges themselves, but maybe that's not true and you do actually have to seek out hidden listings directly from companies -- lol.

I really don't know

[trail otter]

Yeah that's mostly been my experience

[balmy condor]

(Moving more and more away from spec talk slowly, it’s a good convo but maybe not here)

[trail otter]

Dang, I was about to say. I can't wait to work for blizzard and make Seal Fate baseline @balmy condor

To Segway the conversation

[night delta]

Make ttb and exsang mandatory picks instead

[balmy condor]

Yeah love seal fate baseline great game design intuition

[sharp falcon]

A CS degree is strong, though, for sure. Once upon a time, being a Game Designer meant essentially being a programmer, by default. Games were made by small teams and you pretty much had to be able to literally make all aspects of the game. Nowadays and especially at larger studios, roles become more and more specialized and that is also true for Game Design. While some technical skill is still helpful for learning tools and navigating technical topics, it's sometimes possible to get a design position with little to no technical background.

[distant mesa]

Rogue's only want 1 thing and its disgusting

[grizzled jay]

Bit was in my chest... It was the magic absorb one.

[whole mason]

Sin still ranked bottom this season?

[subtle tundra]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCK YEA!!!

WOOOHOOO!!

[vast loom]

no

dont say it

wait you are EU

nvm

[whole mason]

When we can trade dinar coin?

[somber fractal]

is it true they gave atrophic poison to all rogues?

[oak sky]

missing accretion rn

[dawn cloak]

After failing on LFR Sylv for an hour the RNG gods gave me Edge #1!

[brazen zodiac]

pog

[west pilot]

Is snapshot 4p still the way to go?

[grizzled jay]

as opposed to?

[west pilot]

everything. Just making sure it's still best for ST sin 🙂

[grizzled jay]

no i mean what other way to play with 4pc is there

[west pilot]

yeah that's what I was making sure lol. Sepsis was an option right before snapshot

[grizzled jay]

You can still play Sepsis with 4pc, you still want to Sepsis before Vendetta.

[west pilot]

Is vynth snapshot still better tho

[grizzled jay]

in pure ST dummy yes, some fights Sepsis is better due to certain boss timings.

Example being Shriekwing who can force you away during Flagg and Sludgefist as you can get a huge Sepsis pop during Charge.

you can run Venthyr on every boss though if you don't care about doing the absolute utmost damage every single boss lol

[neat cairn]

So I see the opener in FAQ, what do we open before Flagellation? Garrote or Mutilate?

Or is it Ambush?

[slow marsh]

This is what I was thinking bruh

[oak sky]

mut snd mut garrote

[neat cairn]

ty

[slow marsh]

bro what the fuck did they do to outlaw

oh wait nvm fister + dagger op nvmnvm

[brazen zodiac]

lol

thats what im askin

[slow marsh]

I just randomly checked logs to see how it's going for you bois and only see outlaw

[brazen zodiac]

yeah if u peep sin its just the regulars playing lul

[gusty mirage]

if I see another one of yours, or minalbas, little jokes again

I'm muting you guys for 24hrs

🙂

[brazen zodiac]

:o

[gusty mirage]

I deleted the pin so you would shut the fuck up about it

don't bring it up

thanks

[slow marsh]

you good bro?

[gusty mirage]

perfectly fine

[slow marsh]

fine usually doesn't = good

I've learned that from my wife

[gusty mirage]

I'm not your wife

[brazen zodiac]

not yet

[slow marsh]

true

[oak sky]

wtf

man im just poking fun because i love you

:c

[slow marsh]

I miss this

[gusty mirage]

true

[oak sky]

@gusty mirage 😢 hes keeping us apart

[brazen zodiac]

wiping to the eye

[brazen zodiac]

me next

[gusty mirage]

can we discuss that man who had 4 externals

and did less dps than us

????????

[oak sky]

:gigachad:

simply a weaker robber in liquidation

we're holding hands on soulrender

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/673668907747508234.webp?size=96&quality=lossless

tbh im proud of my damage so far

because my gear is so ass

[brazen zodiac]

im proud of u

<3

[oak sky]

last week was bad looks

this week im back on my playground

😈

[brazen zodiac]

hes unleashed, look out ladies!

[whole mason]

What happened to the blindside? The buff is huge.

[gusty mirage]

something happened to blindside?

[whole mason]

The proc ambush can proc, right?

[gusty mirage]

oh yeah

[whole mason]

That's a huge buff

For execution, it is 40% up

[grizzled jay]

issues with Blindside:

a) not many talents interact with Ambush. One of the main ones (Imp. Ambush) is in a bad part of the Class tree. Maim, Mangle and Vicious Venoms does increase the damage Ambush deals but Lethal Dose, Deathmark, Kingsbane, Zoldyck, Dashing, etc. all do not. It doesn't have good support.

b) as it is, Deathmark and/or Dashing provide the energy regeneration the spec needs to maintain dps. one of the bonuses to Blindside is the fact the Ambush is free, but Ambush itself is less CP than a Mutilate (at certain crit thresholds) so if the free energy is actually worthless (ie we regenerate so much the free doesn't 'gain' a cast of something otherwise unable to cast) then a huge power budget of the talent is gone

c) if DTB ends up being the go-to single target build, we basically can't go Blindside. only way you go Blindside in that scenario is if Lethal Dose + Doomblade + SBS/Sepsis is less DPS than it, but that seems incredibly unlikely. You could also drop TTB/SS for Blindside, but again I don't think it's stronger than those two talents especially when DTB gets Dashing

all this is kinda up in the air with tuning. blindside as a concept is cool (harkens back to Cata-era Sin) but one of the core strengths of the talent (the free energy) hasn't been relevant for Sin in a long time

[oak sky]

how can you say ambush doesnt interact with many talents when it interacts with everything mut does except doomblade

[grizzled jay]

2 talents

both are builders, both don't have good support.

most of the Sin tree support is in bleeds + spenders.

[timid cloud]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oUX9Jkz79Sd9hhKAbTirSA

Is this bait, my pals?

[toxic quail]

i think its only good when multiple people in your party have it

since it stacks

[whole mason]

Not for me to accept, maybe I'll agree partially to some points.

1. I'm not talking about imp ambush.
2. Ambush itself is not bad, just not so efficient as mut considering CP and things.
3. Ambush gives FW, which is big. And we have CoS.
4. Energy will always be an important element for sin. We're not GCD capped. And we can try to get DS to increase the value. Although DS no longer gives finisher dmg, we need to see the tuning.
5. Why lethal dose is involved? I think we can get blindside, dtb, ss/doom.
6. Why SS is considered competitive...? Are we spamming gar in dance in ST? 15% of gar is not that big.

[grizzled jay]

no shot Blindside is pickable imo if Imp. Ambush is also unpickable. maybe like literally the first week of tier but Mut will quickly outscale Ambush in efficiency.

Assassination being not-GCD capped is the entire point as to why Blindside is kinda pointless for the spec. We can pool so getting a free Ambush doesn't really "do" much. It doesn't net us a cast we wouldn't otherwise be able to cast.

[whole mason]

Okay, I'm not sure what this is. Blindside has been buffed highly, and that's all I want to say. If you don't believe, that's fine. We all have our doubts.
Why extra proc is pointless if we are pooling for energy? Not sure about the logic. I don't know how much is the much you need. You cannot say you need something and then also call the provided thing is useless at the same time, I mean it does not make sense. If the old version is providing too little, then we need to see it is now providing 40% more in execution.
There is a significant damage difference between muts and ambush, muts are efficient but down to the bottom, it is up to tuning.

[grizzled jay]

really no point in discussing the nuance of the design of a talent when the counter is 'well tuning'

like yeah if Ambush damage is increased by 5000% Blindside becomes good

but the concept and design of Blindside itself within the scope of what Sin does is bad, and therefore Blindside would only be good if the rest of Sin's kit was so horribly undertuned that Ambushes make up a significant portion of the damage profile and thus Blindside is pickable.

but if that happened, i expect the damage profile to be altered.

[whole mason]

I don't know why you hate ambush. I think it is good and blindside has connection to other talents.

Why it is bad design? It gives a good dmg generator for free and huge FW cover in execution. I don't know why you hate this proc while sin is an energy craving spec.

[oak sky]

ambush doesnt have to be good for the talent to be valuable it just needs to be better mutilate

[grizzled jay]

and I don't think it will, in the long run. just a hunch.

maybe in the first bit of the first tier when stats are garbo.

though we still do need to see the tier set. maybe they meme us and make the tier set interact with ambush only kekw

[oak sky]

all these talent interactions that didnt exist before, including with blindside itself, make it at least slightly more likely to be valuable

[grizzled jay]

well right now it's a 7-10% dps loss to EP. i know it doesn't "compete" directly with EP but it's just such a horrible talent even with like 10 more Ambushes from it procing on itself in addition to what it does now, don't think that propels it up enough.

maybe FW is enough, who knows. hope not.

fwiw Whispyr did math for current talents and TTB itself is better than Maim, Mangle. So Blindside needs to be better than either Poison Bomb or two filler talents (SS, Maim, Mangle, Amp. Poison, Exsang)

[whole mason]

Let's say no blindside and we run with dance and KB. Then we realise that every minute we have a good 13 seconds we have to cast muts and our dance needs to cover the last 8sec with only one or two cast of ambush. And that's 10 sec cover of FW
But with blindside we have a totally different story. FW gives big to auto, muts and ambush. It is what we are not having now, which makes your comparison based on current blindside to EP totally irrelevant. And it has been buffed to proc by itself. It is 40% up buff by itself. In energy thirsty windows, these procs are good. We don't know if we have CDR for DM or hangover from DM. Our current energy overflow situation is unique due to 30 sec every minute we are on double ticking bleeding. It is not going to last to DF. Before this tier set, blindside was already our top st choice, with DS.

[grizzled jay]

There's no hangover from DM, but it is up as often as current Vendetta.

oh nvm it got moved to a 2m kekw

[whole mason]

Every minute? I thought the cd was 2mins.

It always is 2mins, right?

[grizzled jay]

thing to remember is Kingsbane wants us to be slamming Muts and Envenoms to have extremely high Lethal Poison proc rate. Ambush will be less CP than Mutilate once we hit the crit threshold and that is when Blindside loses a lot. If KB is the go-to ST build.

[vast loom]

we only need 2 envenomss during KB

[whole mason]

What blindside actually gives is the FW, as we have a good percentage of auto ambush, and muts. That should be considered big.

[whole mason]

Yes, and that makes less FW cover

[grizzled jay]

I don't think Blindside will continue to trigger FW.

Like I said if Blindside alters our damage profile so our dots are as weak as, say, Balance Druids, that will be changed.

[whole mason]

Why? Realz confirmed it weeks ago.

[oak sky]

fw would make our bleeds do more damage

bleeds are physical are they not

[grizzled jay]

he also said CB would work on Bleeds initially but now it won't.