assassination

[keen aurora]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[loud brook]

I hope they increase the radius of poison bomb by like 10 or 20%, mobs always refuse to all stand in it

inconsiderate jerks that they are

[night delta]

I feel like poison bomb should just put a DoT on the targets that walk in it

so it still has value on moving targets

[umbral sandal]

Go ham on rogue

[leaden hornet]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-first-impression-of-the-new-assassination-talent-trees-in-328213?webhook

does indiscriminate carnage really help on a 1.5m cd for M+?

probably needs to be 45secs

[gusty mirage]

[spice spire]

Ideally you’d use it while having scent talented which would be a kind of busted 45sec CD considering the amount of primary you’d gain from even a 5 pack

[vast loom]

1.5min CD is great imo, its just short enough that tanks cal make good pulls around your CD, i think a good sin will still be valuable without IC, but bad ones will do nothing without it

[balmy condor]

IC has the potential to be really big

bleed damage is high

it's a great cooldown

it just kinda finnicky atm

[spice spire]

Added range

[viscid spear]

I guess Blizz thinks "indiscriminate" means "about arm's length"

[balmy condor]

I mean I get it

10 yards on fok

10 yards on CT

the problem is that you control where you're standing for those

It’s 10 yards in either direction from you

You can cut the difference between a couple of mobs usually and it feels fine

[viscid spear]

At least it's not a targeted AoE like RoF or Wild Spirits

[balmy condor]

Cause you’ll be 5+ yards away from stuff and it doesn’t matter

[balmy condor]

This is probably better

Wild spirits targeting reticle for carnage is an improvement

[vast loom]

whats the range on bladeflurry?

[faint harness]

@balmy condor hello sir, have you considered the POISON?

[balmy condor]

8

[balmy condor]

[faint harness]

its a comment on the wowhead article

[balmy condor]

oh no

[gusty mirage]

bold man

clicking view comments

[balmy condor]

until the talents are simulated they are just conjectures, even so I see in the talents that you have not understood very well the new concept that they want to give the assassin and it is the POISON

what the fuck is this

I talked about DTB, there's an example tree for it as well

[gusty mirage]

nice conjecture buddy

also who the fuck uses that word ever

[storm onyx]

i am lost on that

[balmy condor]

apparently I'm an idiot that doesn't understood very well the new concept

[storm onyx]

*/sigh

[faint harness]

warrior brain

[gusty mirage]

yeah bro everyone knows its the new concept they want to give the assassin and it is the POISON

[balmy condor]

yeah guess I don't get it

[viscid spear]

Then it would be Discriminate Carnage

[gusty mirage]

[storm onyx]

As if they didn't do everything in their power to limit poison dmg since Wrath. lol

[faint harness]

i wonder what he means by the POISON tbh

[balmy condor]

are you sure it wouldn't be disdickinyourmouf carnage

[faint harness]

amp poison?

[gusty mirage]

the POISON

[faint harness]

right

[viscid spear]

[balmy condor]

no

just the poison

[faint harness]

[gusty mirage]

I logged in to wowhead

for the first time since it was thottbot

to respond

[balmy condor]

oh no oxi about to commit a hate crime

[gusty mirage]

no no I learned from my Yaldo Chronicles

[balmy condor]

mashallah you were not made in his image, be gone

[gusty mirage]

[dawn merlin]

Hey! Article was a good read, thanks for that.

Curious about why there was no mention of Maim, Mangle (or maybe I skimmed past it?) as a potentially good alternative to Twist the Knife or Amplifying Poison. Is Main, Mangle perceived as being inferior to those two at this point, even if it should kinda synergise with Doomblade?

[royal lantern]

@balmy condor allright, who forced you too write that

blink twice if you are hold hostage

[balmy condor]

yeah so the reason it wasn't mentioned is because it's really really boring and it's weak

but you're right that is has synergy and can be good

atm it's basically just an afterthought point, or you're taking it because you want blindside

but I already get scolded for going over word limits constantly and because there's really not much else to it aside from "well doomblade and maim synergize I guess"

I just omitted it entirely

[dawn merlin]

That's fair

Thanks for the insights once again

[balmy condor]

np

[subtle tundra]

word limit wat

[balmy condor]

if I was able to talk in depth about each talent the article would've been 40,000 words instead of 4000

[subtle tundra]

you seem knowledgeable

[spice spire]

4000 words doesn’t even cover seli’s thoughts on garrote

[balmy condor]

they don't give hard limits but they give vague "it shouldn't be too long" type shit

and then I turn in 4000 words and they go "ehhhhhhhhhhh................ little long"

and then I gotta trim

so I trim down to 3000

and they go "okay good"

and then I sneak in another 500 words after the fact so they don't notice

:)

[spice spire]

[polar cape]

500 words basically gonna be the DH talent analysis

[ember remnant]

[balmy condor]

the new DH writer has a fire in his belly

seems like a good guy

[spice spire]

Who’s the new dh writer?

[royal lantern]

guy is a dh main now?

[spice spire]

[balmy condor]

shadarek

we got a lot of new writers

[gusty mirage]

your mom

[balmy condor]

tarlo for BM

azor for MM

[spice spire]

Damn bro, I knew she was dumb

[balmy condor]

shad came in for havoc

Also makes me realize I’ve been guide writing for over a year now

It’s been 2 patches

Wow patch cycle fucking bicentennial

[royal lantern]

legion is 6years old now

[balmy condor]

[royal lantern]

i was not even 20 when it came out, im 25 now 🙂

[balmy condor]

I started playing wow with my friend for the launch of warlords in November of 2014

It’s been almost 8 years

[royal lantern]

https://tenor.com/view/aging-getting-old-gif-9803364

[balmy condor]

bro I've been with my girl for 7

I've been stuck playing this dog ass game

for longer than that

we're talking about marriage

when am I supposed to marry wow

[strange python]

Wow becomes a legal adult soon

[viscid spear]

"Tell me I've raided a good career!"

[royal lantern]

its wow

thats your answer

[viscid spear]

https://tenor.com/view/saving-private-ryan-earn-this-earn-it-whisper-captain-john-h-miller-gif-16072054

gets H EoN week 1

[subtle tundra]

after me

[viscid spear]

Polygamy, scandalous

[balmy condor]

[viscid spear]

Whispyr finna get a whole season of Sister Wives to himself

[spice spire]

Sister wives gonna have to hold up

I got dibs

And I’ll fight oxi irl for those dibs

[gusty mirage]

mad cuz bad

[spice spire]

Mad cuz honey

Horny even

[brazen zodiac]

mad cuz both

tbh

[spice spire]

So true, bestie

(But actually)

[brazen zodiac]

sup quake

[gusty mirage]

that's my bestie

helps me get rings from dungeons

meanwhile you level your alliance rogue

some friend you are

[spice spire]

But also I’m leveling the alli rogue because my tank is checks notes pvping

And im@waiting on him smh

[gusty mirage]

say somethin

I gear up oximeta

go go go

[brazen zodiac]

i stay helping friends get the ring

[gusty mirage]

[brazen zodiac]

i am on a search for the ring with a socket or speed tho

would be a real shame if....that dropped

[spice spire]

I’d 10000000% run with oxipasta

[brazen zodiac]

id give it to u too lmfao

[viscid spear]

Trying to get at least a 15 in these dungeons for this week, I'll feel more comfortable next week since it's Fortified and should make these dungeons less stressful compared to this week.

[spice spire]

I’m not as mental terrorist to my tanks.
But to healers

[brazen zodiac]

oh i make my healers work

[spice spire]

Same here

[gusty mirage]

oh sweet child

[brazen zodiac]

if i gotta press buttons u gotta press twice them bitch

oh my sweet brother in sin

if only you knew what next week had in store

[spice spire]

Wait

[viscid spear]

[spice spire]

Fortified upper

[gusty mirage]

fortified junkyard is harder than tyran

[brazen zodiac]

oxi what one shot me on the motorcycle boss

[spice spire]

Yeah tyran junkyard kind of a joke tho

[gusty mirage]

the boss mechanic

lmao

[brazen zodiac]

i was at -1000 frmes to tell

the taze?

[gusty mirage]

he rode that motorcycle over you

[spice spire]

Empowered taze?

[brazen zodiac]

oh fuck my dream

[viscid spear]

That named Dreadlord finna dab on people in Fort

[brazen zodiac]

it came true

[spice spire]

Oh even worse

[gusty mirage]

seasonals don't scale with fort/tyran anymore

they changed that in 9.1

[spice spire]

[brazen zodiac]

thatd be cracked

[gusty mirage]

or 9.0

can't remember

just key level

but zugagagaga on a +30 is about to be obscene

[spice spire]

I mean it still empowers the shit around it tho

[viscid spear]

Oh so he just finna dab per usual, gotcha

[spice spire]

But you just blast him down

[viscid spear]

Surprised at people not knowing what to do with bat add

[spice spire]

Kidney if it’s on me and move on with my day

[viscid spear]

I just Poly it and forget it, a simple stun just messes it up

[spice spire]

Blind if a cast is about to go off on someone else

[viscid spear]

I see people focusing it after I Poly, so fun

[gusty mirage]

@burnt latch we're holding hands on the heroic leaderboards

[brazen zodiac]

real friends let the cast go off tbh

[subtle tundra]

public loggers

cringe

private log = nobody can log watch me

[gusty mirage]

buddy

[violet jackal]

private logging is

[gusty mirage]

I'm cringe regardless of the availability of logs

[brazen zodiac]

lol

[viscid spear]

We're all cringe ngl

[burnt latch]

very cute

what boss is this

biggest HC blaster itw

very hard content very meaninful

[subtle tundra]

wtf?

outlaw?

[gusty mirage]

they all abandoned us

him and @ebon notch

[gusty mirage]

did a normal clear for friends and normal sludge with this affix is a fucking joke

died in a minute 47

[grizzled jay]

gm sinners

[viscid spear]

gm ig

[ebon notch]

[gusty mirage]

imagine listening to soil in 2022

[grizzled jay]

Can't believe Whispyr took Exsang in the wowhead article

[ebon notch]

whats wrong with it

[spice spire]

Daps got bullied out by cev

[ebon notch]

yes

i could not beat him

so i rerolled

[viscid spear]

No one can resist the alluring talent

[gusty mirage]

so you rerolled to the spec that sims higher than assassination to get dumpstered by a sin rogue anyway?

[spice spire]

Yeah but Cev sin sims higher

[grizzled jay]

Daps is a masochist

[spice spire]

Checkmate

[ebon notch]

wdym i can compete with him now

[gusty mirage]

with equal gear, cev does not sim higher than an outlaw rogue

[ebon notch]

we sim the same rn

[gusty mirage]

don't make me log check

[spice spire]

Yeah but he’s built diffly

[ebon notch]

go for it

private

but i was able to compete with him in CN this week

[gusty mirage]

how bold of you to think I don't see them anyway

[ebon notch]

ask him

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

hackerman

how

[gusty mirage]

[ebon notch]

america explain

[spice spire]

Oxi has sauce

[burnt latch]

Im a certified normal champion

[gusty mirage]

wanna see the dumbest shit ever?

35.7k

[burnt latch]

LMAO

Ppl doing s1 dmg on normal

[burnt latch]

Jesus christ

I wonder if we can hit those numbers on mythic in full gear

[grizzled jay]

@gusty mirage are you able to line up ven with charge

[gusty mirage]

I held it for normal

for mythic I'm playing stepsis

[gusty mirage]

we had 41 stacks of the motes

we're going to try that next time CN comes back on a boss

gonna get one of our boomies to go bear

and PI them on a ravenous thrash nonsense

[grizzled jay]

Sepsis vs Flag doesn't change your effective Ven cd does it?

[gusty mirage]

PI + lust

[gusty mirage]

oh I didn't even read ven, sorry I'm still waking up

[grizzled jay]

np

[gusty mirage]

first one is kind of sus

but after that it lines up pretty well

[grizzled jay]

Do you have to ven first gcd on opener so it lines up

[gusty mirage]

yea you'd have to vendetta pretty early

which may be worth

[grizzled jay]

Doing Sludgefist tonight

kk

[gusty mirage]

like 2nd/3rd gcd

[grizzled jay]

Well try Garrote Ven first two buttons see how it feels

I'm playing NF so can Gar Ven Ambush Gar

[gusty mirage]

yea

stepsis does uh

quite a bit of damooj

[grizzled jay]

I like NF way more than Venth

Do you play Shock conduit for him

[gusty mirage]

yeye

triple potency dreamweaver

[grizzled jay]

Aight

[gusty mirage]

wps/sepsis conduit/lp

[grizzled jay]

tyty

[gusty mirage]

when he hits pillar, shiv -> sepsis/vendoota -> vanish

play MA

[grizzled jay]

MA over Subt? Sadge

[gusty mirage]

yeah its worth for the sepsis damage

[grizzled jay]

Is that just on Sludgefist or are you playing MA on NF default

[gusty mirage]

just on sludge

sludge is an anomaly

because playing MA as night fae

feels like absolute dogshit

lmao

[grizzled jay]

Making sure lol

[brazen zodiac]

oxi so cool

[foggy socket]

so, is the tazavesh dagger the best m+ dagger this season i guess?

[drowsy crescent]

Hey all, doing some research for a project. Can anyone link me a sin rogue WCL profile that's had multiple jailer kills on heroic (From last tier)? I'm trying to find a good spread of parse numbers on that fight.

[gusty mirage]

sure

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/illidan/Oxii#zone=29&difficulty=4&boss=2537 those are mine if it helps

[balmy condor]

he said a good spread of parse numbers, not 100's all the way through

[gusty mirage]

its okay I played sub on it early on

that should even it back down to a low purple

(never let me play sub again)

[drowsy crescent]

thanks @gusty mirage!

Does anyone else have (or know of anyone else) that has grey or green parses on this fight? (apart from my own :P)

[nocturne lagoon]

oxi loves sub !!

[gusty mirage]

calm down we get it you're the #1 all star dps for normal fated nathria

[nocturne lagoon]

even more on 3 mobs !!

[vestal wren]

why wouldn't he

[gusty mirage]

cause I'm mediocre at it

[vestal wren]

in DF we all can enjoy playing shadow dance and find weakness, so we all join the #subtlety club

[nocturne lagoon]

everytime i ask oxi about sub i feel like im about to die

[vestal wren]

you can improve any time if you want, but outlaw is atm the hot topic

[balmy condor]

your fucking head is brighter than spires dude it feels like I'm watching one of those "WORLD BRIGHTEST FLASHLIGHT" youtube videos

[nocturne lagoon]

it's ok i am a member of Hustlers University 2.0

[balmy condor]

big cigar

always grustling

[nocturne lagoon]

bugatti + cigar = TOP G

[spice spire]

Can’t escape

[viscid spear]

No tears, only meows now.

[lone junco]

@marble hemlock with the seasonal crit stacking, does assassin get better in keys?

Seems you could hit 100% with trinkets.

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/cry-about-it-andrew-tate-gif-26167116

[gusty mirage]

no, assassination still has dogshit aoe

whether you have 20% crit, 40% crit or 100% crit

all crit does is increase your cp generation allowing you to spread your ruptures while everything dies in 10s because warlocks, monks, and hunters still exist

[lone junco]

Figured. Full bleeds and youre about even with a few black power.

[gusty mirage]

yea

like in theory if things could live long enough

yeah assassination would just get better

because you'd get bleeds rolling faster

it's just everything has burst damage except our class

lol

so packs just get deleted

[lone junco]

Happened to me on arms. Big blasting. And everything would die while I was still in bladestorm.

But thats with WW and Survival.

[storm onyx]

Also Junkyard one

[gusty mirage]

yea its big sadge

I remember throwing down my spear, blade storming

and everything's dead

like yup

there's my damage for the next minute and a half

fun

[lone junco]

Still spinning. Like "damn"

Worst part was that their ST is still decent if not great.

[gusty mirage]

[misty holly]

I just got my first Logic Loop.
Is there any way for us to reliably trigger this? lol

[spice spire]

Throw it in the trash

And not that I’m aware of

[misty holly]

What about Niya bonded hearts?

[gusty mirage]

stand in bad

crimson vial

[misty holly]

[balmy condor]

I think leech procs it

But you’d have to get under 50% first

And uh

Good luck

So just vendor that and go again

[sharp falcon]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/assassination-rogue-first-impression-of-the-new-assassination-talent-trees-in-328213

Pretty good read, if anyone hasn't seen it yet... obviously provides good insight into the expert opinion of the author, but if anyone has strong opinions in support or opposition of any of the points made, don't hesitate to let me know, it's a good jumping-off point for topics to rally around and support, or fight against if you disagree

[ember remnant]

Who could the expert be?

[gusty mirage]

I'M FREEEEEEEEEEEEEE

[subtle tundra]

dont ignore realz

[gusty mirage]

24 RUNS

DSFHINADKSUIFASD

[subtle tundra]

we dont care oxi

[gusty mirage]

stay mad nerd

[subtle tundra]

yes i dont have it but i havent been farming it

[ember remnant]

278 version? Good thinf it took you 24 runs for all that valor

[gusty mirage]

you're a monk main anyway

you don't need haste

[subtle tundra]

I AM NOT. I AM NOT.

I AM NOT.

STOP

[gusty mirage]

@burnt latch @ebon notch @spice spire

you hear this monk main in denial?

[ebon notch]

bruh

[spice spire]

100% monk main in denial

[ebon notch]

varas changed since he went monk

and changed his profile pic to that weirdo from that tv show

[spice spire]

He’s gone off the “deep” end

[subtle tundra]

in 20 minutes

[ebon notch]

boys i need emotional support

[subtle tundra]

im doing slg

DONT STRESS ME

[gusty mirage]

with 2k valor left for eye of command

[grizzled jay]

I still think Alac and Lethality being 3 pts and not linked to a capstone is a big meme for the class tree. Especially for Sin as Alac is insane dps for us but its payoff (Deeper) is pointless for us.

[spice spire]

[spice spire]

You got this king

[subtle tundra]

i COULD play outlaw

[spice spire]

Why’s that?

[subtle tundra]

or

i COULD play assa

[ebon notch]

im watching my guild wipe on SLG

[odd heath]

I really support the idea of more connectors on the assassination tree. More choice going to the bottom of the tree is good, it doesn't "force" us to go all the way down in a single row for the capstone. And it opens space for more varied builds, other than the 3 builds proposed by Whispyr.

Also, thanks for being available for feedbacks. It sure helps us building an enjoyable rogue for drafonland xD

[grizzled jay]

My suggestion is to link Vigor to Tea and Deeper to Dance. This also opens up the middle of the tree.

[ebon notch]

and they refuse to take any rogues

[subtle tundra]

what do you think i should play...

[ebon notch]

they have 2 shadow priests

2 mages

2 warlocks

[spice spire]

[outer iris]

Hey Guys, does it any good? or Meh?

[subtle tundra]

we're going 2x rogue

[ebon notch]

like i would do more damage than all of them

[ebon notch]

but i have to watch

[subtle tundra]

the other rogue will play outlaw

[spice spire]

It’s not very good

[subtle tundra]

so i might aswell be the big man and play assa

[spice spire]

It’s an easy to win tho

[spice spire]

The beta outlaw player versus the chad assassination gamer

[gusty mirage]

it was -230 dps at 288 over my phial/xymox combo

I gave that away so quick

[spice spire]

I have an omega cursed trinket set up rn

SLH+ Council trinket

291+298

[gusty mirage]

MACABRE SHIT MUSIC

KEK

[spice spire]

I’ve inted a few sludge pulls going for a dancer

[gusty mirage]

it's okay man

they buffed it

dancers stay out longer

[grizzled jay]

Our warlock got sheet music and insta f4'd

cracked up laughing

[ember remnant]

Everytime one drops, its always fun to say "hey X, nice trinket bro"

Gotta fuel the rage

[spice spire]

It’s just the combo

[subtle tundra]

assa necro slg gameplay WAHOO

[spice spire]

CN shitter trinkets

[spice spire]

HUGE

[ebon notch]

THEY WONT STOP WIPING

THEIR DAMAGE IS SO BAD

FUCK

[subtle tundra]

whats the fated affix

[ebon notch]

the soak one

[subtle tundra]

oh the POG one

i lvoe that one

makes my vendetta go brrrrrrr

[limber lion]

DAPS

[drifting cloud]

fotmrogue benched??

[limber lion]

I'm home soon

[ebon notch]

come hang out with me and going cev

[limber lion]

Get your ass ready

[ebon notch]

im so bored

[soft shale]

actually sheet can be used as prepull

[ebon notch]

yes

7 boss andy

[soft shale]

i killed 3

[drifting cloud]

kill sire easy

[ebon notch]

theyre gonna wipe for another hour then consider changing comp

but for now they havent realised that a better comp will make the fight easier so

our RL said that the best specs for SLG were "MM, survival and windwalker"

[balmy condor]

I just want to say that the indiscriminate carnage range issue has been brought up a couple times by not just me. In this diagram with red being enemies and green being the player, there's more than enough control you have to centralize yourself and hit all targets in the light green 10-yard circle with fan of knives/crimson tempest. This happens almost automatically for most people, and in a lot of cases you'll even find people getting out of auto-range in order to get their 10 yard casts in. Having carnage (the blue circles), even when cast on the "best target" in this hypothetical, you still miss out on some adds. And it isn't some make-belief thing either. I ran maybe 4 hours worth of dungeons and had to double take after pretty much every other carnage cast when it inevitably missed mobs that I thought would be just easily hit. I think it was neltharus where it was especially bad. There's a boss in a forge area who spawns mobs, but those mobs are always about 12-15 yards away, and they cast. I can fok and hit them, I can CT and hit them, but carnage only hits the boss. Sometimes one wanders in and the cleave on that is great, but the talent honestly felt unusable without a blood DK mass gripping every other pack together. Maybe it's fine in higher keys when you start to LoS and interrupt things to get them in with an organized group in your big +25 keys, but for the average rogue in a +4 weekly at night 5 beers deep with the lads, it's a nightmare

[ebon notch]

i called him a crackhead

wtf whisp

yeah i agree carnage range is tiny af

[subtle tundra]

wall of text

[limber lion]

@ebon notch i'll go practice for a bit

Let me knownif I'm needed

[ebon notch]

what you practicing

you gonna be near pc?

[limber lion]

2mins away

[burnt latch]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/x9cBQNrHzR6jPAwy#boss=2417&difficulty=5&wipes=1&type=damage-done

rogue pretty bad for slg

nocco raid leader in shambles

[spice spire]

Double hance

[burnt latch]

ppl just play what they want

[ebon notch]

he's gonna sub me in im going to destroy everyone

then shout at him

[balmy condor]

also just as a petty side note, if you're going to target cap an ability at least let it hit something ;)

[subtle tundra]

ok whisp

be pretty

[balmy condor]

(the target cap is definitely justified though)

[balmy condor]

being petty and sarcastic is at least like 83% of my personality I can't just stop now

[ember remnant]

Whisp, does acrobatic strike increase the size of carnage by any chance?

[balmy condor]

that's a good question

[limber lion]

Wtf Korruptio is PUBLIC LOGGING???

Are you crazy!!!!

[subtle tundra]

surely necro is better than venthyr on slg

[ebon notch]

it was warciefts demand or else they wouldnt have enough people to raid

[ebon notch]

ofc it is

nvm ur a monk main

[subtle tundra]

ok then why are the 2 logs venthyr?

[limber lion]

I demand public logs as well

Or it's /gquit time

[ebon notch]

we are an elite guild that must keep our strats secret

surely you understand that

[subtle tundra]

if they killed slg surely they must be good at the game and know what they are doing, right?!?

[limber lion]

I also understand that I can join a hogher wr guild that raids less that public logs

[ebon notch]

but they havent killed slg

[ebon notch]

ok bro chill lmao

i was kidding

[subtle tundra]

cev cry

[limber lion]

Me too

[ebon notch]

were you?

[limber lion]

Or was I?

[ebon notch]

yeah

lmao

[burnt latch]

public logging is for low wr guilds

thats why we do it

[vast loom]

The biggest problem in my opinion with the tree is that the paths are very rigid, and I want more talents. Yes, I am incredibly greedy. This part is my main concern for the tree, Points like KB are essentially a 8 point

[burnt latch]

nocco has advanced strats gotta push the ranks

[ebon notch]

theyre so secret even we dont know what they are

[limber lion]

I think replacing the roster would do more than turning on private logs

[burnt latch]

cev u dont understand

its an important season

gotta take it serious

no messing about

[balmy condor]

I'm officially announcing that I am joining NOCCO as the third rogue

I think my blue parses will help shake up the status quo

[subtle tundra]

nocco do you need a handsome rogue?

[ebon notch]

do you know any?

[subtle tundra]

@balmy condor

[ebon notch]

smooth

[limber lion]

!!! Wonderful news

[limber lion]

Not sure if you have Nocco in the US

But maybe they can send you a can or two of monster

[balmy condor]

we don't even have nocco in germany

[ebon notch]

please dont meme me im in a lot of pain

[ebon notch]

they ship to germany

[balmy condor]

yeah but I'm not gonna ship nocco to my grandmas house in germany are you high

[ebon notch]

why

get her that caffeine rush

[sharp falcon]

The point about Deeper being pointless makes a lot of sense, but it's also somewhat inevitable for some nodes in a general tree to be more desirable for some specs than others. I hear you on the high value of Alacrity, though... it would

As far as 'meme' tree structure goes, Vigor and Deeper basically are cappers, they just aren't themed around a particular spec. The investment to reach any of them is the same, with the structural idea being: Pass 20 gate --> 3pts of travel --> Capper. The spec-related lines have those 3pts split between a core defensive and a 2pt throughput-related talent, but the outcome is the same (Outlaw has the last two nodes inverted, but still same general idea). Would it feel different if Vigor/Deeper nodes were dragged down to the final row alongside the other cappers?

[ebon notch]

@balmy condor i just got hit with the "im so glad we have a really good rogue and a rank 2 rogue on the bench"

man finna blow

[balmy condor]

who's the rank 2 rogue

[ebon notch]

well its not cev

[grizzled jay]

If Vigor/Deeper were capstones it would feel even worse, I think. I am fine with them where they are, it is the point investment that is the core issue (imo).

With my proposed idea of linking Vigor to Tea and Deeper to Dance, those two capstones also still follow a similar investment as the spec trees (1-3-1, 3-1-1 in this case) and would feel more narural. Vigor and Tea make sense to be linked, Dance giving access to Ambush (more CP for Outlaw and Sub) being linked to Deeper makes sense.

[balmy condor]

I know I just like hearing you say it

[grizzled jay]

And like I said, this opens up the middle of the tree which right now is severely lacking in reasons for going down it.

[balmy condor]

links

[ebon notch]

[ember remnant]

Wouldn't it just be better all around if you could go down by only spending 1 points or 2 on 3 pointers to go down? As long as captones are met

[balmy condor]

I also don't think I mention it in the article but dashing being 3 points is kinda weird

[ember remnant]

Give us the option to go down without having to max out the nodes!

[sharp falcon]

This is at least partly intentional, and I understand how the tree is one of the most different in that regard especially compared to the opposite extreme some specs have. I sort-of agree that the end result is something that feels more rigid than I would like, but at least some of that feeling of multiple nodes of investment required, is something that will make different builds, different paths, different areas of the tree feel like they have a distinct mechanical vibe and flavor... instead of playing essentially the same build all the time and swapping out like 1 node because another one sims 4% higher on the next encounter. Hopefully this doesn't sound dismissive, so don't feel like "He answered this already", if it remains a problem feel free to keep letting me know (and if I come up with an adjustment that is net-positive, we'll go for it)

[balmy condor]

like scent/zoldyck scale fine with points, each point gives another bonus on top with zold (10/20/30)

but then dashing is like here's the energy for 1 point, and the next 2 give a bit of crit

[ebon notch]

@subtle tundra found a guild for you

[ember remnant]

[sharp falcon]

I also found it weird, the first point is more valuable than subsequent ones... but to scale the energy gain seemed kind of absurd. Also, it's speculative at this point (for the most part), but if you told me it's quite weak for the 3pts invested, that may be true. That said, how much offset is needed to accommodate Dragon-Tempered Blades (if any)? That's related too.

[strange python]

Is the issue that it's offsetting DTB? Or that zoldycks and Kingsbane are weaker?

If so, maybe an argument for making zoldycks more compelling as well, if dashing is buffed for points 2 and 3

[balmy condor]

I think while you definitely made sure that there are these "regions" of the tree, the core of the tree doesn't quite allow that sort of thinking. People are looking at the tree and going "capstone me want kingsbane me want dragon tempered how do I get there", auto-pathing down to the cool powerful capstone, and then picking up scraps with what's left. Part of is the gates, but it's also just trying to get to a capstone. this tree is essentially the first 20 points of any raid tree, and I now can pick do I go kingsbane, do I go dragon tempered? If I go kingsbane I now have 5 points left from this tree, and the (in my opinion) real choice is now there. Do I go utility with atrophic or do I have another rogue doing it, does it matter for this encounter? Maybe I want sepsis and exsang, that's three points, maybe I want blindside for the execute, that's 2 points, but then doomblade to synergize? that's another point. Maybe cut the chase feels good to me and I'm going to double up on that. Poison Bomb? Those 5 points are a very impactful choice you need to make and play around those "regions". But up until that point you're basically just going left, going right, taking deathmark, and then picking a capstone.

[strange python]

Can I ask a maybe dumb question

Is there a risk that DTB and Kingsbane thematically overlap and tuning will render one irrelevant?

[vast loom]

Something small that would make the pathing feel nicer for AoE would be swapping EP and Cut to the Chase, since Cut is seen as more "ST" than EP is taht way you can skip EP for the aoe talent behind it

[balmy condor]

if I'm looking at kingsbane, there is a single straight shot all the way down to it. I will be taking everything from improved shiv, straight down to kingsbane. Those 9 points are settled, and it might as well also settle EP and Shiv and be 12 points as well because when the tree first branches after deadly poison, I'm picking my path

[ember remnant]

Kb would be more st when dtb would be better in cleave since they will have more poisons ticking id think

[balmy condor]

kingsbane can be quite a bit of burst, DTB would be sustained

[strange python]

Well yeah. But we haven't often seen too many cases where that distinction matters more than whichever averages out higher

Sludge comes to mind but otherwise not really

[ember remnant]

Also, from the DTB side, poison bomb is still a 2 points while we have no clue what the 2nd point changes since its not reflected in tooltip yet

[strange python]

Second point makes it move with the target for when your tank gets ADD and starts randomly running around

[violet jackal]

probably proc increase

[ember remnant]

So you think it would be 5% proc rate per combo point per rank?

That would be 50% by rank 2 5 cp

[balmy condor]

sun king shield, slg shields sorta, the horsemen on sire, adds on inerva if they lived a little longer, add on the eye, add on the nine, overlords on soulrender, orbs on nerzul if they lived a little longer, downstairs on KT, intermission adds on fatescribe, p2 sylvanas, halondrus shields if he didn't get taken out back and shot, downstairs add on anduin, upstairs add on anduin, the add on lords of dread, jailer mc's if someone wasn't stacked.

If that's not enough we can go back to bfa, ra'den orbs, big adds on the dragon boss, tentacles and intermission add on n'zoth, tentacles on carapace, p3 execute on carapace, skitra adds, ashvane shields, blackwater with the swimming downtime, the dog on jadefire masters, pushing the adds into the next room at a certain time on opulence, adds on the king fight, jaina barrier

[balmy condor]

this is confirmed btw

[strange python]

I don't remember changing talents for these though, is my point. Though I could be wrong

[ember remnant]

So we're really having an uncap aoe puddle dropping at 50% drop chance?

[balmy condor]

well yeah you don't remember changing talents for them because there was nothing to change into that would be worth on that

with this, there's a good chance that it will be worth

[balmy condor]

I mean is it really uncapped if it's a dime-sized floor aoe

but yes

[limber lion]

That does very little damage, yes

[ember remnant]

Procs on carnage too tho?

[balmy condor]

it procs on envenom

[ember remnant]

Could have some interesting plays

[balmy condor]

carnage is not envenom

[ember remnant]

Oh right

No more rupture i forgot

[violet jackal]

People would need a high end graphics card if it did that

[ember remnant]

Would have been funny tho

[sharp falcon]

Okay, it's not much, but I do think there's a way to let the start of one side path be friends with the other

[violet jackal]

i'm listening

👀

[ember remnant]

Thing is, imo, we just have too many 3 pointers at 20 capstone+, while other classes mostly have 2 pointers, so they can reach more than 1 very bottom talent

[balmy condor]

the talents are going to kumbaya?

[ebon notch]

why are your eyes diff

this is creepy

👀

[ember remnant]

[astral gazelle]

[ebon notch]

wtf

[grizzled jay]

[balmy condor]

[sharp falcon]

allows for starting in a left path and ending up in the right one, or vice versa

[gusty mirage]

what kind of cursed shit is this

[viscid spear]

👁️👄👁️

[balmy condor]

I like this a lot

[gusty mirage]

do you still get the benefit of preventing someone from cheesing their way to KB/DTB with this?

[balmy condor]

yeh that's handled by the gate

you're point limited by the time you get down there

[sharp falcon]

it's not much but it doesn't break any rules, doesn't ruin the end-of-tree balance, and lets you mix early to mid left points with bottom right points (or vice versa)

[gusty mirage]

gotcha

[sharp falcon]

oh, theres one more potential

[balmy condor]

2 point poison bomb locked away any DTB+other capstone, because you need 20 to get to there and there's a total of 30 points, with poison bomb/dashing/DTB eating 6 of them, you just don't have enough to get anything else

[grizzled jay]

This lets us potentially decide between VR and MM which I like. Also could drop MA, for whatever reason, if you wanted

[balmy condor]

I want to drop it because it doesn't work for me

[balmy condor]

[grizzled jay]

Okay that's too spicy

[gusty mirage]

[violet jackal]

oh that looks sick

[kindred rapids]

[balmy condor]

I think I like it just because I can now avoid tiny toxic

that's big

[sharp falcon]

some raid fights won't benefit that much from shrouded, and on the left side it's a boon to the execute build almost for sure (which is an important sub-archetype, imo)

[ebon notch]

it also makes a cool edgy pattern

thats probably what i like the most

[violet jackal]

I like the execute nodes flowing into each other

[balmy condor]

MAKE THE TALENT TREE LOOK LIKE THE COOL S

[gusty mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/cool-s-letter-s-cool-tubb-stussy-s-gif-21182785

[grizzled jay]

[ember remnant]

Avoiding venom rush and tiny toxic

[ebon notch]

THATS EXACTLYW AHT I WAS THINKING

[icy agate]

no this reminds me of oribos 😦

[cold dove]

i forgot about the cool s

[balmy condor]

nah but like actually I think this creates a lot of choices that were previously not present. This is really good

[sharp falcon]

k I'll have to double-check and make sure there aren't any important negative outcomes, but will consider that for sure

[grizzled jay]

At this point do you also link PK to CT and that far right talent no one takes to Exsang?

[icy agate]

asks for feedback > "can we get a cool s pls"

[sharp falcon]

also I'm pretty sure Shiv-amp and Shiv-charge-2 are going to swap places

[balmy condor]

we're just like that

[sharp falcon]

probably not, too warping to accommodate, maybe if the meme dream were in place from day 1 =p

[balmy condor]

also the tree is already so good that "can we get a cool s" is actually top 5 priorities

[kindred rapids]

this kind of feedback is why

I'm confident we'll have the best tree

[balmy condor]

I'm kinda scared about getting talent tree improvements just because the shadow priests are already breathing down my neck about how our dev actively engages with feedback and they're still waiting for their first blue post

[ebon notch]

we didnt know we had that much freedom tbf

[kindred rapids]

All the shadowpriests I know are switching rogue

[grizzled jay]

tfw Realz and I having nice convo about Vigor Deeper then Whispyr sidetracks it with rant

[balmy condor]

I would never

[sharp falcon]

shadowpriest is not forgotten, it's alpha jeeeeeeeezzzzz

[balmy condor]

I am an esteemed gentleman of the most serious highest order

[sharp falcon]

put away the doomsayer signs >_<

[kindred rapids]

just a meme, we all know feral is the real forgotten spec

[violet jackal]

It's like having 9 kids you can't just give one of them ice cream without giving them all ice cream 🙂

[sharp falcon]

even trickier, truly. But also not forgotten

[kindred rapids]

actually heard some of the recent spriest changes are pretty good

[balmy condor]

I don't want to speak for them but after so many of "it's alpha" the copium supply runs dry

everyone just wants to be heard

[fallow canopy]

very nice article on whead mr whisperino

[balmy condor]

and wants to have the feeling that there's something on the other end of the pipe

[balmy condor]

ty mr bolino

[kindred rapids]

for a while even rogue felt a bit neglected

so I'm cautiously optimistic

[balmy condor]

we all miss sephuz dearly

[grizzled jay]

Half the bugs in SL alpha went live kekw

[balmy condor]

the person, not the legendary, that thing sucks

[spice spire]

Launch assassination was a

[subtle tundra]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz slg

[balmy condor]

wdym it was fine (6 aura buffs later)

[spice spire]

Buddy

[gusty mirage]

well we didn't leave beta until 9.1.5

so

[spice spire]

This channel was myself, you, and oshosi

[gusty mirage]

[gusty mirage]

hey now I'd pop back in and give words of encouragement

[balmy condor]

cev was a person

I assume

[gusty mirage]

no shot

[balmy condor]

I don't actually remember

[gusty mirage]

he's a robot

[spice spire]

Cev came in after the second buff iirc

[gusty mirage]

@limber lion you a robot?

[balmy condor]

it's a serious issue (I need help)

[spice spire]

No, you’re not wrong, Cev came in before 9.0.5, but he was even sub at launch

[kindred rapids]

outlaw was strongest and still felt awful

[spice spire]

Yeah

[kindred rapids]

like you were slapping the boss with a wet noodle

[gusty mirage]

as sad as that sounds

[gusty mirage]

99 parse, 8th on meters

[limber lion]

I was here in 8.3 as well.

[spice spire]

Hercleonas

[drifting cloud]

well all melee except dk was shit in CN

[gusty mirage]

before I ruined his mental

[spice spire]

I was talking about shadowlands

[limber lion]

But very active in 9.0.5 onwards

[gusty mirage]

went to classic

never came back

mentally ILL rogues as per usual

[spice spire]

God bless

[limber lion]

I was here way before Oshosi lol

[ebon notch]

which boss

[limber lion]

That's insulting

[gusty mirage]

heroic sludge

[limber lion]

Remembers osh

Not me

Big sadge

[spice spire]

To illustrate how bad assassination was for shadowlands

[limber lion]

I see how it is

[gusty mirage]

I have one response for you

just send him this

[drifting cloud]

me and seli killed sire before 0.5 as assa show some respect

[spice spire]

You were a sub boy Cev

[limber lion]

I switched to Assa in 9.0

After the first buff

Lol

[violet jackal]

I killed sire as assassination before .5 i think

[limber lion]

First 5% and I dibbed

[spice spire]

Was it the first? I thought it was the second

God bless

[ebon notch]

@limber lion my gf made me lamb shank and potato stew

this + watching nocco wipe is heaven

ngl

[subtle tundra]

some mythic zoldyck action

[limber lion]

God damn

[violet jackal]

the good days 🙂

[spice spire]

Truly a dedicated gamer (legitimately was unplayable even then but you still fragged)

Mfw peen was getting all the externals for r1 on deadspec

[ebon notch]

do u want to hear a story about me and zoldyck on sire

[viscid spear]

[subtle tundra]

hm

[ebon notch]

also do you remember the tech on slg where your opener is SBS?

so you can hit grashaal

and get an extra cp on every SBS in p1

[drifting cloud]

the forbidden scriptures

[limber lion]

I started playing Assa after the Jan 11th patch

Not sure if first or second buff

[limber lion]

You don't even need to do that anymore

Because Deathspike cleaves the other target anyways

:--D

[ebon notch]

i wasnt sure if they were close enough

[spice spire]

It was still infinitely early

[ebon notch]

but it still has to be your opener right

[limber lion]

Yes

[spice spire]

Earlier than most that swapped

[ebon notch]

or else they fly away

sick

[spice spire]

And you were still gaming

[limber lion]

As is the opener

For Necro

Always

[spice spire]

Yeah you open with sbs

[limber lion]

Oh well

Outlaw maybe different

Nvm

Yuk

[spice spire]

Oh

[ebon notch]

ye for outlaw you gotta ambush

but idk if youll be able to get the sbs off after

[limber lion]

You won't

You sbs

Or you int

[ebon notch]

ye

we do like a bit of inting

[strange python]

Holy priest just took haste ring ahhhhh

[burnt latch]

@ebon notch @limber lion rogue bad and loots

[ebon notch]

gz

[spice spire]

The shoulders too?

JEEZ buddy

26.7k PUMPING

[ebon notch]

??

bro hes not mm surv or ww

wdym

this is NOT GOOD damage

get a GRIP

[burnt latch]

[balmy condor]

it's 26.7k more than you apparently

[burnt latch]

rogue very bad for slg

[ebon notch]

can u stop ruining my coping mechanism

[spice spire]

Malding

rn

[burnt latch]

rogues just very bad for slg nocco is smart to bench them both

[spice spire]

Very true

[ebon notch]

ive finished my stew

im now very angry again

[bleak sky]

can now watch varas mald on slg as well

[burnt latch]

whats best %

@ebon notch

[ebon notch]

p3 something

idk

[burnt latch]

ah okay

close to kill then

[balmy condor]

your stew mate? 'avin a little 'evning meal there chap?

[ebon notch]

fuck

[burnt latch]

he was watching korruptio stream

insta inv

[ebon notch]

did you play gsw btw

im thinking i basically go dungeon setup

[burnt latch]

nah regular venth

but gsw probably rly good

rbh

tbh

[ebon notch]

fr?

dancing steel as well or

[burnt latch]

ye

ye ofc

[ebon notch]

hmm

i start necro and then see

[spice spire]

Yeah but is Cev in too?

[ebon notch]

no they only benched 1 shadow priest

[spice spire]

[ebon notch]

secret SLG tech

you heard it here first

[spice spire]

It’s more understandable. 2 shadowpriests was a big ??

[subtle tundra]

i think assa is not good on slg

outlaw might be better

slg is dogpoop boss mmmmmmm

[burnt latch]

i was playing scars

very pog

[ebon notch]

im jealous

wish i had

[gusty mirage]

[grizzled jay]

Vers trinket secretly op on slg helps you survive choke

[wintry trout]

How is sin preforming as of late?

[ebon thorn]

yo this is pretty good for assa right

[spice spire]

It unfortunately shards a slot with mechagon rings

[gusty mirage]

ye until you get the mechagon rings

[spice spire]

Otherwise yeah

[spice spire]

Decent in raid, bad in m+

[gusty mirage]

twinning

[ebon thorn]

I got this in my first upper kara run

got the ring in my 2nd

[gusty mirage]

there has to be something with tertiaries & sockets rolling higher

[ebon notch]

@gusty mirage @limber lion @spice spire @burnt latch WE KILL IT IN 2 PULL

AHHAHAHAHAHA

[spice spire]

Rogue dam bad

Post sauce tho

[ebon notch]

not good enough

i didnt have enough time to get comfortable

[gusty mirage]

shit trinket

unlucky

[ebon notch]

hard true

[gusty mirage]

next time just loot a dreadfire

[ebon notch]

ill loot u m8

[gusty mirage]

sorry I'm too busy padding my parses in normal

while being like 20 ilvl higher than the people doing normal

[spice spire]

20?

Buddy

You’re probably closer to 30-40

[gusty mirage]

I think 270 is a fair estimate for people running normal

whatchu talkin about dog

[grizzled jay]

[spice spire]

We ran heroic with average of 272 and kinda stomped

[strange python]

Am I allowed to afk a key if the warlock is doing 6k at 290 ilvl

[grizzled jay]

Yeah

[subtle tundra]

why make for fu n season and make slg

🖕

should've just removed slg

would've been better.

[spice spire]

Very based take mister varas

[subtle tundra]

love to see those

rank 1 out of 2 pogging

[spice spire]

Better than the anduin moment

[subtle tundra]

yeaaa buddy afk assignment

[spice spire]

[red tinsel]

Guys, is Pandemic still a thing for our dots?

I saw a post that they removed in 9.2.5, but some people also claimed it was most likely a bug, but can't confirm if it was fixed or still removed

[gusty mirage]

yes

there was a bug in 9.2.5 but they fixed it

[burnt latch]

rogue bad btw

[cerulean nest]

we expecting new changes on the alpha tomorrow?

nice piece btw @balmy condor

[balmy condor]

not major

[balmy condor]

thank you!

[cerulean nest]

hopefully a few more functioning abilities at least lol

[vestal wren]

realz did say no changes

[cerulean nest]

must mean theyre pretty happy with it

or happy enough to not feel the need to rush testing on something drastically different

[red tinsel]

Hopefully they change Thistle Tea to something else, because right now I don't think we'd ever take it

[cerulean nest]

feels like one of those ideas that was thought up conceptually first before practically in gameplay

[vestal wren]

just means that they won't focus on rogue this week

[cerulean nest]

the rotation between class updates is pretty strict then huh? few at a time

i dont keep up with the others really

[balmy condor]

the devs handle multiple classes

[cerulean nest]

what else does Realz do?

[balmy condor]

so not getting rogue changes for a week or two usually means that other classes are priority first

[oak sky]

Dh

Also could be helping with feedback for other classes and stuff like that

He mentioned the trees are collaborative but the ones hes in charge of were rogue and dh

[cerulean nest]

nice. not impatient about it, just curious. i hope the other devs are as receptive/open as realz seems to be

[royal lantern]

im honestly excited for the DH tree

cus it probably needs the most work out of them all

[balmy condor]

||they aren't||

[red tinsel]

Yeah it feels so lacklusters compared to the other capstones

ER doesnt do much for assa

[cerulean nest]

hard to make those class capstones when the three specs value such different things

i mean random huge energy gains might be a pvp idea? idk

[red tinsel]

Personally I hate it for PvP, haven't seen muchj love for it in the PvP channel

I think energy won't be a problem, especially with Dragon Tempered Blades

[cerulean nest]

yeah. only other case I can think of would be just a filler button for sub outside of dance or outlaw on a really unlucky dice roll. but like, why bother even when you could take something else lol

[red tinsel]

I think getting both DS and Vigor could be interesting for PvP maybe

Instead of Thistle

[oak sky]

tbf at least some of them (hunter guy) are

[spice iron]

Hey guys, is it worth to grind the legion ring next week over the mecha ones? Thank you

[spice iron]

Thanks 🙂

[faint harness]

is fae better than venthyr? asking for a friend

[vast loom]

Yeah I saw Cev do it, so it must be best

i deleted my character so i could be Fae

[fleet whale]

Nimble Fingers vs Gouge, which talent is better?

[spice mulch]

you promise? the ferals are doomering

[oak sky]

times change 😔

[vast loom]

Nimle Fingers is awful

at 5 energy

i think the main issue with a lot of the conduits

they are all the baseline version

which some are fine

others just arnt useful

[oak sky]

if he works at blizzard and says druid isnt forgotten that means work is being done

[bleak sky]

delete this rn

[oak sky]

what both of us getting rinsed by a mm hunter?

[spice mulch]

i've been trying to get the doomerism to stop, i know blizz won't let it go live in its unplayable state, but they're inconsolable. they just want some kind of a confirmation that it's going to be changed

[hexed kite]

for venth is nadija still the best soulbind for raid ? Fuu's http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz has theotar listed

[gusty mirage]

theo assumes full use of the umbrella buff. People didn't play it in sepulcher because every fight for the most part had a shit ton of movement

you can play either one

[hexed kite]

i see, thanks for the clarification 😉

[grizzled jay]

pog

[ebon notch]

Gz

[dire ivy]

Is it worth swapping to assa for upper kara if I want to do the most dmg possible or will venthyr bb outlaw still be better?

[strange python]

how high of a key are you running? just give it a shot

[dire ivy]

Like 22

[strange python]

eh, just go for it

[dire ivy]

Ok

[strange python]

it's not like it's crazy cleave heavy

report back how it feels

personally I won't lie I like the longer arms on aran, but really that's cope

[dire ivy]

Well I’m going sleep now, was just wondering for tomorrow since it’s the last tyra day for me

[distant mesa]

thoughts on covenant for Santum tomorrow?

[spice spire]

Venthyr still - I legit don’t think there’s a fight where you’d want to be Necrolord or cheesy enough for nf. Maybe NF on eye?

[distant mesa]

i thought of NcL for Eye

[bleak sky]

don't think there's a reason for that

[twilit hollow]

necro was cheeks on eye when it was current

[spice spire]

Nah, I memer it quite a bit during sod season, but I feel venthyr is definitely better

[bleak sky]

if CN tuning is anything to go by, eye should be a breeze and adds should live like half a second

[spice spire]

Yeah

[twilit hollow]

if anything venth is probably just straight up better depending on how easy it is to burn down, shorter CDs

[somber fractal]

are the machagon rings gonna be better than the CoS ring + kara ring?

[dawn kelp]

Yes

[vast loom]

!fuu

[prisma monolith]

Fuus Shadowlands evaluation Spreadsheet: http://tiny.cc/uxr1tz

[brazen zodiac]

lo

[strange python]

How bad is the nature damage ring, really

I did 63 workshops this week and I'm tapping out for now with nature ring

[gusty mirage]

about -192 for me

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1TTppoUXL5jVu1jwyEq9iY

[vestal wren]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/rv34z2afXs13LG6yeqsjdg

[strange python]

Fml :(

It simmed worse than keeping dusk on ring with CoS

But that might be because i got 304 chest

[gusty mirage]

that's for sure a big factor

[strange python]

Either way I'm sad and I don't wanna do more workshops

[gusty mirage]

for a 304 for you tomorrow

[vestal wren]

diffrence between "3 spells" and "behind the target" is not super high tho

[strange python]

I'm already mentally preparing for tomorrow to be a nightmare of yelling at my gm for sitting on painsmith and sylv