and it has a 14% tier
#outlaw
vivid vessel
frail veldt
exactly yes
it shouldnt feel bad though
stage 2 is like our strongest stage
I think jackpot is actually the weakest jump
vivid vessel
like sub is getting a 10% aura buff next week compared to outlaw
dark ember
When I KIR on jackpot or even t3 bohnerr
quaint wharf
stage 2 and 3 feel best yeah
keen belfry
KIR is just approached way differently than previously, its biggest use case is allowing you to function rather than extending giga buffs
lucid sparrow
frail veldt
KiR is just insurance on the spec
glass mortar
what also feels good is how much lower ur 1 buff uptime is if ur kiring in 2+
1 buff is so awful to play with
legit lose all my tea charges
frail veldt
so you dont have to play in the fucking sewers that is stage 1 gameplay
glass mortar
anytime im on 1 buff for more then 15s
dark ember
Ngl I completely risk it.
I AR into stage two and push for t3 after 30 sec
dark ember
It works 100% of the time some of the times
glass mortar
well if you have loaded dice and a t2 buff ur supposed to delay KiR
or roll again idr the exact rule
its in the FaQ tho
keen belfry
am i crazy or are there a lot of sub rogues
vapid void
wait are we using fatebound or trickster
glass mortar
fatebound
dark ember
Coinman
waxen scarab
what embilishment on weapon guys?
keen belfry
seeing a rogue this high in public logs feels weird
dark ember
The reason we use Fatebound is because the coins pop out and it looks like we're robbing them.
plush grove
Anyone know how I get spell id numbers for certain items?
mystic berry
am i crazy or are there a lot of sub rogues
Every streamer rogue plays sub, it was innevitable
glass mortar
Anyone know how I get spell id numbers for certain items?
could check wowhead
dark ember
Anyone know how I get spell id numbers for certain items?
Look it up on WoWhead, I think the number in the URL is the spellid
keen belfry
wowhead
charred fox
We need a dedicated outlaw streamer
(Unless there is one)
cinder relic
Not all but like, almost all
vivid vessel
We need a dedicated outlaw streamer
(Unless there is one)
bro ..
charred fox
guys.... we need a dedicated streamer....
See this guy has the right idea
rocky canopy
Sub was the best spec for all of tww
sub is way overrated bro holy moly
looking at these logs rn actually 700 sub parses to like 50 sin and outlaw lol
mystic berry
sub is way overrated bro holy moly
Its far and away the best for pvp, so I can see why it has a headstart in popularity
glass mortar
our content creator didnt even make delve HoF....
look at our spec man.... its in shambles
charred fox
Zac will make Outlaw great
plush grove
Look it up on WoWhead, I think the number in the URL is the spellid
appreciate that man
mystic berry
Delve hof is anti worker af
frail veldt
Delve hof is anti worker af
I mean wow is anti worker in general
ashen void
anti worker or anti work
zinc briar
so, tier of outlaw is 8% less gain than subt?
river zenith
!addons
cinder relic
X
glass mortar
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc:
Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
ancient cobalt
https://x.com/i/status/2034324692362842126
bro good work this the type of shit that actually moves the needle we need more of this
they fall for this everytime
copper radish
https://x.com/i/status/2034324692362842126
It’s almost like they should have never taken back those buffs from a few weeks ago “sorry guys bug fixes worked we are taking away your 10% aura buff” 🤦♂️
normal forge
https://x.com/i/status/2034324692362842126
when are we closing the disc?
blizz will be made with the 133 players no longer playing the game
crisp elm
can i not use beacon of hope if i already completed a map this week?
frail veldt
so, tier of outlaw is 8% less gain than subt?
Yeah but it's an outlaw tier trust
And ignore the fact that outlaw doesn't scale well with stats
cinder relic
Yeah but it's an outlaw tier trust
It is if u actually look at the fights on mythic
frail veldt
It's an outlaw tier!
glass mortar
can i not use beacon of hope if i already completed a map this week?
is beacon of hope the thing that spawns the miniboss to drop a map
fading igloo
Elp chat
crisp elm
ya
keen belfry
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
glass mortar
u can use the beacon and fight the miniboss, it wont drop another map tho
cinder relic
Take the aoe one and swap dancing steel for 2nd ace
vivid vessel
Take the aoe one and swap dancing steel for 2nd ace
might not be worth btw
if you need to cast bf
as in 2nd ace is less value than dancing
if you need to press bf
crisp elm
i heard can only do 6 bountis this week to, that correct?
cinder relic
if you need to cast bf
Most of the time Ur just bf on cd cuz deft
prime vessel
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
charred fox
Do we want 18%-20% haste then stack crit ?
cinder relic
More or less
vivid vessel
you guys think they ever fix private auras staying till infinity when you vanish
im sure im not the only one that noticed that happening
for like
well since they were created
was already an issue on smolderon
i member
waxen scarab
prep on cd when adr isnt up?
fathom bramble
Idk been a thing since the first private aura
Makes me wonder how/why since there is no good reason for vanish to do that
magic steppe
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
marsh basin
hey guys is it ok to go to raid without 25% haste? it's first raid couldn't farm it
keen belfry
you function above 20
glass mortar
no
u literally cannot enter the instance
it will tell you you must reach minimum haste threshold first
keen belfry
that to
glass mortar
unlucky shoulda made 4 more rogues
keen belfry
too
marsh basin
Ty Weran 👍
glass mortar
always trying to help 🫡
keen belfry
what bout me
glass mortar
as long as ur over 20% ur not missing out on a dramatic amount of dps not reaching the haste threshold
fathom bramble
what we need is an engineering ring that is just all 1 stat like other engi items
glass mortar
if ur under that well
the dps and gameplay falloff is noticable but its still not unplayable
marsh basin
Ty awang 👍
glass mortar
what bout me
ty awang
keen belfry
np
glass mortar
get big abilities on cd > get SnD up > get BtE on cd
optimal opener tbh
different between openers probably 0.00001% dps in sims do what u vibe with
prisma bramble
Do we believe we are getting some tuning next reset? 😄
glass mortar
actually if theres no dedicated FaQ rule for prep kiring then im not sure i should write what we discussed during beta
idk if it ended up being optimal
kk it is in the FaQ
tldr: If you know your next roll will have LD its worthwhile to hold kir until that roll
with prep in the opener you always know ur next roll is gunna have LD so
im not sure if the idea is to roll as soon as RtB is off cd (Assuming 2 buff) or roll to avoid losing the LD/refresh ur buff tho
waxen scarab
so hold kir on prep ig
glass mortar
@gaunt phoenix wuld know
glass mortar
no
sterile dune
i feel stronger
flat karma
For outlaw daggers does it work correctly to just sim droptimizer with off-spec items included?
fathom bramble
yes
still matrix
Are you guys using which pot? Draught of rampant abandon, lights potential or recklessness
or rampant abandon, drops the silence portal under u
random stirrup
dont use the silence portal one
cinder relic
GHow much haste do u need to swap to vers btw
whole storm
guys can i craft sword and dagger , each with embellishment? or only 1 i can with embel?
sterile dune
im hella lagging rn
quick ridge
guys can i craft sword and dagger , each with embellishment? or only 1 i can wit...
You can have two of the same embellishment, they’ll stack
quick ridge
I made a sword and dagger with void on both. It feels nice
waxen scarab
is blade rush on cd always?
lean scaffold
It fuels our tier so I imagine so
waxen scarab
what if im tierless
lean scaffold
I still press it on CD. I cant think of a scenario where id want to hold it after the opener. Faq might have answers
thorny wedge
you want to press blade rush first then bte. spending combo points reduces the CD of blade rush
livid pewter
might it be worth crafting 2nd wep? or we keep goin with boots as 2nd craft?
river wing
how do we play dragons in raid? just ST and BF when orbs spawn?
proven torrent
Does anyone know of a website or something similar that could tell me, based on my current gear, which stats I should prioritize, like more crit or more haste ?
leaden sonnet
proven torrent
Raidbot hasn't been providing you with that information for a long time no ?
proven torrent
raidbots.com
like a few years ago, when you could get the information right after your sim told you that, given the current weight of the stat, you still needed x points in that stat
glass mortar
i dont know that thats ever been a thing
if it was a thing it was not terrible accurate
stat weights have always been meh
just compare between gear pieces, you cant really go wrong with crit after ur haste is in the 20-25% ballpark
u dont really need to worry about anything else this season i dont think we have the budget to aim for vers
get haste to the appropriate amount ,get as much crit as u can
if sims start telling u to swap ur crit enchants for vers then you'll know
soft abyss
Stat weights have not been a thing since like Wotlk I would say
gleaming reef
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fathom bramble
simming items directly is just more reliable and reasonable
stat weights to get a loose picture of your current stats is more for curiosity than actual practicality
in the end you would just sim the items to get a final answer anyway
whole cloak
raiding currently and noticing the dps im doin, makes me wants to quit, what a trash tunning
blissful idol
are you guys keeping any crests or spending all but hero?
prime vessel
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.
cinder relic
raiding currently and noticing the dps im doin, makes me wants to quit, what a t...
Still got mythic tuning!
prime vessel
!macros
proven ocean
@vivid vessel wtf he copy my name
wintry solar
Beat him with a sack of corn
river wing
man
feeling so damn useless after raid
like yes, I was 2nd or 3rd on overall damage, generally solid blue parses overall
but like
I had a druid doing a green parse close up on me
and a WW monk ahead of me continuously, and a demo lock basically head to head with me
and right now I'm feeling along the lines of
"what the fuck am I even doing here"
just kinda down
solemn karma
did you have fun
river wing
I mean, some part of the time
like during the actual fight I just keep slamming buttons and listening to music and it's fun
then I look at the results at the end and go "oh"
tardy zinc
Hello guys, is the dagger craft for sub alright for an offhand on outlaw?
upper hawk
you must not sully your outlaw gearset with something a sub rogue touched
but yeah, it's fine. you want dagger in oh for outlaw
tardy zinc
I will amputate my hands then and play with prosthetics
magic steppe
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
frail veldt
Hello guys, is the dagger craft for sub alright for an offhand on outlaw?
offhand slot is pretty low priority as far as upgrades go
obviously use it if you have it
random stirrup
can you imagine reading this on one of the classes that isnt a golden child
this is a real bluepost
flat karma
are folks running thiefs vers over flickering steel now in raid?
wintry solar
DK golden child?
inland acorn
Ngl having to press bf every ~10s on vanguard boss is so ass
random stirrup
DK golden child?
yes
fossil lintel
They didn't even have to close the discord
That's true favourite child behaviour from blizz
wintry solar
Very very recently
random stirrup
dk was giga in raid every tier
shut lichen
they had their moments with the whole gargoyle bs in Abberus tier
not sure i can say every season in DF though
winter falcon
We need tuned up in a bad way. Raiding yesterday felt meh at best despite feeling like I was optimizing my rotation well
winter falcon
Maybe it is me then
random stirrup
there's a dk spec in the top 5 for every single partition in df
except amirdrassil launch where they were tuned around fyralath
they've been busted for a long time
the only tier theyve been bad in raid since i came back in df1 was tww2
and they were a hard meta key spec to compensate
fk dk
a single day of being bad and we have a bluepost from blizzard saying "oh god we're so sorry we will make you op again" 
i know guy is blowing up reading that thing
frail veldt
Rogues fine outlaw is the meta
wintry solar
Disgusting creatures
random stirrup
We need emergnecy rogue bufs
deploying the emergency 10% aura to assa immediately
cinder relic
deploying the emergency 10% aura to assa immediately
Sin would lowkey be a vibe this tier
Easy bosses, no lineups or anything
leaden sonnet
is unholy really that shit now?
zinc briar
did u craft something?
lone nebula
!up
ornate heathBOT
mystic berry
https://discord.com/channels/124169701881282560/486284970806083584/1483930815355...
better than us
Gentleman
I think its time
to close the discord
river wing
solid reasoning
close the discord
turn off the pc
go to sleep
fine plan tbh
maybe tomorrow will treat me better...
mystic berry
midnight robin
It worked for the ret pallies
soft shard
with fatebound, can we send BTE on 6 CP or do we wanna max it with 7
fossil lintel
6 is fine
errant field
Fatebound is anything over 5 no?
soft shard
ik we can dispatch at 5cp with fatebound
fossil lintel
fatebound is dispatch 5+, bte 6+
although there's a small optimization to try to avoid dispatch at 5 you can do
soft shard
ahh kk, alot of the times when im at 6op and pistol shot i get to 5
fossil lintel
Yeah that's fine
fossil lintel
no
the optimization is if you're at 1 and have 3 stacks of op and RTB tier 2 or higher, you SS instead of pistol shot as fatebound
if it procs you go to 6, if it doesn't proc you go to 3 and then pistol shot up to 7
fossil lintel
yeah, it just reduces the amount of dispatching at 5 you do
dense bridge
i cant believe they made this spec fun again
fossil lintel
but pressing a builder at 5 to dispatch as fatebound is a loss
dense bridge
flint sun
Does outlaw aoe feel bad or am i just bad
fossil lintel
define feel bad? numbers or gameplay?
mystic berry
Does outlaw aoe feel bad or am i just bad
can you do 100k in big pulls at 240?
ilvl
gray summit
the log are interesting
when i saw a mixt with prepa and blade
for aoe and st in the same time
soft shard
guessing it depends on how fast adds die
flint sun
can you do 100k in big pulls at 240?
maybe once in a blue moon if i am blade flurry specced, not consistent tho
fossil lintel
sounds like a skill issue then
errant field
So how much were autos doing in damage dispersion for you guys?
elder roost
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
glass mortar
should be competative with ur top damage sources, a bit behind BtE and dispatch
depending on aoe vs ST Br as well
elder roost
when fuu finishing spreadsheet ;/
prisma lantern
when fuu finishing spreadsheet ;/
When the buffs he knows are coming are done? 👀
river zenith
How do you track your trinket buffs and when it comes off cooldown? it doesnt seem like you can do it through the blizzard cooldown manager?
sly oasis
Yo guys, when it comes to crafting on Outlaw can I craft something now? considering i will be away for like a month? Or should I wait until I come back and craft then.
buoyant cosmos
Yo guys, when it comes to crafting on Outlaw can I craft something now? consider...
If you're not going to be playing I'd just wait
price of mats should come down too
glass mortar
the only thing thats gunna change in a month is nerfs/buffs, so unless u plan to maybe not play outlaw due to tuning theres no need to hold out
except as nightshade pointed out, unless u have some reason to rush a weapon rn
everything will be cheaper in a month
save some o that gold
prisma lantern
I'd say it depends on if you're going to push this week. If not 100% just wait.
sly oasis
ill be leaving in a few days, ill wait then, thanks
hollow creek
this can be a stupid question , if i dont start slice and dice it doesent start ?
dapper glacier
should i craft MH 259 without crest ? and recraft after mythic crest ?
glass mortar
dispatch casts SnD
buoyant cosmos
should i craft MH 259 without crest ? and recraft after mythic crest ?
I think it can be harder to recraft an item to max rank early on than making a new one at max rank
hollow creek
last season 90+ logs only this was just weird
prisma lantern
my logs was so shit in raid and i dont even know why
Try wow analyzer - but can also post it.
hollow creek
analyzer didnt work
buoyant cosmos
you don't get the full value of using max rank materials like you do from the original craft
winter cave
Question on last voidspire fight it seemed like Deadly Pursuit was not triggering during intermission
is that a known bug ?
buoyant cosmos
Don't you have to leave combat?
winter cave
nah
glass mortar
u probably accidently triggered it at some point shortly before
it triggers on its own just during the rotation sometimes because its not designed all that well
and when it does u generally instantly cancel it and get almost no cdr
id check a log to see if it was prepared at all before interm
stuck patrol
Does this mean that this trinket is actually good in Voidspire raid?
glass mortar
or video if you have it
glass mortar
yup even just tunneling a dummy u can get some bad rng and trigger it in the normal rotation which is very silly
and u will almost alwyas instantly cancel it wasting it
with micro downtimes from dodging shit would be much easier to trigger
dapper glacier
you don't get the full value of using max rank materials like you do from the or...
ok thx
glass mortar
well you'd only ever get one proc during intermission
after it procs it wont proc again until you've spent 15 CP
winter cave
buoyant cosmos
ok thx
If you know the person crafting it they should be able to sim how it'd turn out with myth crests as well so you know what'll happen
winter cave
wait it doesn't run continuously ?
glass mortar
no lol
winter cave
I mean if you're in combat and do nothing
cinder relic
Does this mean that this trinket is actually good in Voidspire raid?
probably
glass mortar
nope
it procs once time for its duration
then u get the buff back by spending 15 combo points or something idk it says on the talent
its pretty bad tho
glass mortar
"for 5 seconds"
winter cave
it's 5s max
glass mortar
looks like u did proc it on these intermissions
winter cave
Yeah
glass mortar
or slightly before
glass mortar
could u imagine
winter cave
or 5s if I spend CP
glass mortar
🤤
winter cave
thanks for clearing it up
tulip perch
what is my best embelishment for crafted sword with outlaw?
stuck patrol
what is my best embelishment for crafted sword with outlaw?
Darkmoon void iirc, the one with the vers proc
willow narwhal
guys where can i find a good single target tree please
wooden pilot
willow narwhal
ty a lot
marble kernel
why are outlaws so dogshit in comparison to meta specs? Man the difference is ridiculous
stuck patrol
why are outlaws so dogshit in comparison to meta specs? Man the difference is ri...
No real burst damage, huge damage loss during downtime, aoe target capped
High dps variance due to multiple rng talents
Huge loss from player error
Take your pick
reef plinth
To be honest, unless you're blowing CD"s before a downtime part. It's really not that big of a deal to lose some dmg during downtime. Especialy if you play prep and it's up.
balmy topaz
Guys I think we're getting a buff next week
stuck patrol
To be honest, unless you're blowing CD"s before a downtime part. It's really not...
Yes and no. I'm thinking more along the lines of M+, where you don't play prep
cinder relic
Guys I think we're getting a buff next week
I genuinly think all 3 rogue specs need a buff
cobalt sail
Mhhh it’s more like casters deserve a nerf, they have a huge burst kit and then they stay high af
marble kernel
No real burst damage, huge damage loss during downtime, aoe target capped
the burst part is the worst. You blow all your cds, getting BTE with 7 cp, then another one with 6 cp and then gravedigger 6 stack and you do not get that much damage out of all that
soft shard
question on opener, why do we dispatch instead of BTE after AR,?
cinder relic
to get snd rolling
balmy topaz
I genuinly think all 3 rogue specs need a buff
Ye I do agree
marble kernel
i was really hyped when they announced you didnt need a third hand to play outlaw anymore but man, the spec is depressing to play
reef plinth
What? If I get 3 BTE's lined up at the opening of a pack with Apex. I'm hitting like 180k AoE
cinder relic
The spec feels solid in dungeons overall
Ofc u have the pulls u do nothing but the spec has always been a marathon not a sprint
marble kernel
The spec feels solid in dungeons overall
i strongly disagree
stuck patrol
It's definitely solid in dungeons if youre playing it correctly, and if things are living long enough for you to do damage.
cobalt sail
Well maybe we’ll have to rely on good trinkets to get our dmg rolling… but that’s bad
cobalt sail
Is sub better than outlaw atm in raid?
stuck patrol
I agree, I know im a decent player but im still lagging behind other specs
stuck patrol
Is sub better than outlaw atm in raid?
It almost always is bc sub design works better in most fight designs
stuck patrol
Outlaw can Sim higher than sub and sub will still be picked
cinder relic
It almost always is bc sub design works better in most fight designs
It doesnt in this raid
marble kernel
just get RTB max lol
cinder relic
I think genuinely sub is the worst spec rn
of the 3
I think both sin and outlaw are just better
reef plinth
This raid is great for outlaw, alot of cleave fights.
stuck patrol
I think genuinely sub is the worst spec rn
Wait, fr
cinder relic
These timers for sub are really shit, outside of specifically saladra
stuck patrol
That's interesting
cobalt sail
I think genuinely sub is the worst spec rn
Huh
stuck patrol
You think that's why they haven't buffed sin?
cobalt sail
But we’re still so far down
cinder relic
I mean literally all 3 rogue specs need a buff lol
No idea why we dodged buffs
Mythic tuning should legit be a 5-8% to all 3 specs
stuck patrol
Blizzard HATES rogues
marble kernel
just lock the discord
wintry solar
WtB new joke
tiny onyx
this trinket doesnt sim too low compared to solarprism incase anyone gets it.
Got it from lightbloom delve
glass mortar
WtB new joke
no, i like this one
it lets us shame ret paladins everytime someone is underperforming
for commiting one of the most cringe acts of any spec in the game over the years
let it never die
🫡
tiny onyx
it's a slightly worse prism, but depending on the situation it could be better if other party members run it
wintry solar
no, i like this one
Okie dokie
desert tendon
cinder relic
Nah it's not that bad
But it's not that good either
Its so mid and like
casters are so broken
and the melee that are good just do ur job but better
so like, other than atro rogue kinda just sits there
it feels like an aberus tier, but we do less damage than back then
icy hare
heavy shadow
if I was lucky enough to get HC weap from Delve, what's the best use of spark?
tiny onyx
if I was lucky enough to get HC weap from Delve, what's the best use of spark?
boots/ring
heavy shadow
cheers, as it happens ring is my worse slot too
rocky canopy
But it's not that good either
rogue has to get buffed surely 
like im not greedy ill take a 3%
sour cedar
it's the long term play for us, do badly week 1 so we get buffs for the rest of the season when they nerf mage evoker etc
crafted hero crest weapon and still got clapped by either devoker and frost mage or both on most fights
smoky lotus
Surely buffs when they don't see us in rwf
mystic berry
they don't have enough data to buff outlaw
so they will do nothing
sub got buffed because there is more than 10 people playing it
"buffed"
keen belfry
i will do my best to not blast tonight
normal forge
https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-them-too-much-380851?utm_source=discord-webhook whyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
frail veldt
https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-th...
HAHAHAHAAHA
long barn
https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-th...
Fucking joke what a bunch of cry babies.
long barn
You know they posted and made bunch of videos complaining
Last season being top everything wasn’t enough.
cinder relic
mystic berry
https://www.wowhead.com/news/blizzard-giving-buffs-to-unholy-dk-after-nerfing-th...
god's favoured class
thorn parrot
Isnt that ret?
cinder relic
DK got mega overnerfed lol, its like, complete shit now
Its funny they got a blue post addressing it but thats abt it
mystic berry
what is funnier to me is how blizzard acted this fast
meanwhile other bottom classes take like, 3 weeks to get buffs
thorn parrot
lol for real
cinder relic
Can u stop doing this thing where ur getting upset about immaginary scenarios in ur head
mystic berry
just saying
eternal hound
Guys should I reroll from frost dk to outlaw?
crimson scarab
As a second craft would you go for ring or boots
lime lake
they probably get buffed next tuning pass, but no, uhdk is the only one to get an emergency hotfix buff
mystic berry
Odds are ele, bm, and aff also got buffed
are these buffs in the room with us?
lime lake
idc either way that unholy is getting buffed, it does suck now
but its very funny the speed at which it happened
cinder relic
agreege
torpid fiber
It's better than they did it instantly rather than waiting, but it does feel like they play favourites
frail veldt
kinda on the nose how fast they unfucked uhdk
You see there's this thing a "hero class"
lucid coral
is there anyone avail or someone folks recommend who reviews logs for assistance?
narrow pasture
theres an army of people who rerolled uhdk
mystic berry
You see there's this thing a "hero class"
our salvation will be a gunslinger/pirate/etc hero class
narrow pasture
low representation of sin and law means they probably deem the data they have as insufficient to buff on
and the vicious cycle continues
mystic berry
low representation of sin and law means they probably deem the data they have as...
I mean, if no one plays a problem class, is it really a problem?
steady oasis
are there any addons/weakauras that can track your roll the bones result?
thorny zinc
cdm should do it
rocky kiln
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
steady oasis
cdm should do it
is that the name of the addon or is it 'cooldown manager' or somethin
narrow pasture
what are the chances sub catches an extra buff next tuning
cinder relic
I think all 3 rogue specs should get a buff
leaden sonnet
If no rogue specs gets a buff I would be insanely surprised
fresh cairn
do we still craft ring for spark considering iris got nerfed?
thorny zinc
is that the name of the addon or is it 'cooldown manager' or somethin
cooldown manager yea, the blizzard one
steady oasis
cooldown manager yea, the blizzard one
oh, the inbuilt one. well I am asking for purposes of keep it rolling
my eyes are too poor to hunt for a triple dice icon
narrow pasture
most likely they pick 1 of the specs to bring up to competitive with the other classes
thorny zinc
oh, the inbuilt one. well I am asking for purposes of keep it rolling
you can make it a bar and itll say the name of the buff I believe, but I think all are going to be similar to that maybe someone else knows one though
narrow pasture
and my money's on sub extra buffs
and pulls ahead
man sub logs are all over the place in terms of numbers
would be absolute cinema if they overbuff
cinder relic
Sub is really bad on a lot of these fights
gaunt phoenix
You dont need to track fatebound coins, it's just noise
radiant kelp
You dont need to track fatebound coins, it's just noise
quick question solo
wtf is this
m+ talent got changed?
wasn't it trickster like a week ago or something
glass mortar
its been fatebound for midnight for months
hasty warren
FB was always better
glass mortar
trickster was just a prepatch thing
radiant kelp
trickster was just a prepatch thing
yea i had it since then i think
glass mortar
and all the guides that provided the trickster build said that
mystic berry
the goat
cinder relic
ALready have mythic weapons? 
wintry solar
Fake gamer if you don't tbh
snow dirge
True and real
gray summit
guys one question
narrow pasture
fact checked
gray summit
i need 25% of haste before raid buff or after ?
crimson scarab
Can someone share a few pointers and points of improvement if I share my logs from tonight?🥹
cinder relic
after
wintry solar
Ninjarobot was typing
mighty pivot
then I changed my mind
wintry solar
then I changed my mind
gray summit
Forever what do you think about taking dancing steel + Preparation on some boss ?
gaunt phoenix
What should I craft first if I already got mythic weapons
Use top gear item search to see the difference between offhand dagger (hunt) or boots (arcanoweave) or ring (prismatic)
gray summit
or solo what do you think too
steady oasis
any good cheeses for crown? vanish/cloak/etc?
mighty pivot
@gaunt phoenix thoughts on blizzard not only not giving rtb/soh chances but also giving an obscure range for their soh hotfix?
stoic wagon
is Cruicle of Erratic Energies bis right now in raid?
gaunt phoenix
<@921608341048930304> thoughts on blizzard not only not giving rtb/soh chances b...
can only hope it's positive
wintry solar
Solo do you know what the average uptime on jackpot is? I feel like it's really high
lilac lion
Today i rolled 3 Times Jackpot in a Row
wintry solar
That's hot
lilac lion
It was Awesome
lilac lion
Someday little padawan is the force with you
cinder relic
Most specs have a tier set around 4-6%
wintry solar
is everybody else's tierset also that underwhelming?
I'd say generally yeah but there are a few outliers
I assume you mean how it works and not the actual output it provides
crisp elm
is it once a week for voidstorm trinket? to get upgrades for it
fickle relic
blade rush is my top 10ish dps usually, i'm not even sure that with the tier set it will outdps main gauche with 200 mastery
crisp elm
okay ty
fickle relic
4 piece set might not even be worth it if the stats on items are gonna be bad
crisp elm
id assume itd be worth just based on prio of blade rush
wintry solar
4 piece set might not even be worth it if the stats on items are gonna be bad
That only applies to pvp sir.
That'll never happen in pve
fickle relic
i think i actually remember that happening, when we wouldn't go for 4 piece because of mastery i guess
near rock
4 piece set might not even be worth it if the stats on items are gonna be bad
tier would need to be 1-1.5% for that to ever happen
fickle relic
it probably was when i've been pvping, nevermind then
wintry solar
Certified goober moment
glass mortar
i mean
fickle relic
well, i'm legally a goober
glass mortar
i think WWs tier set is like 1% or something
so it defintly can happen
i dont think they r playing tier this tier as Shadowpan
wintry solar
i think WWs tier set is like 1% or something
Well it only applies to real classes
fickle relic
do i wait until i get a heroic piece to turn it into tier, or use it on champion gear?
wintry solar
I'm pretty sure we get a ton of charges this patch to make it okay to cata champion
My lawyer is requesting I say "but idk though"
mighty pivot
catas start dropping once you close your 4p
mighty pivot
I'd assume you still want to wait a bit so that you don't get the same piece for tier
but it means you can send it at any track once you can guarantee 4p
fickle relic
i'm going to conver my shitty champion gear then, gonna show them kids how to dps
how lucky have y'all been?
mighty pivot
we have to deal with popo on a daily basis, so not very lucky
fickle relic
who the hell is popo?
glass mortar
popo= POOP
past falcon
say it louder!!
static crescent
Just did m0 as outlaw for funzies and topped dmg, are we hidden op, pitty this goes to blizzards databank and nerf inc
mighty pivot
What's with the aggro??
who the hell is popo?
wintry solar
who the hell is popo?
Couldn't tell you tbh
mighty pivot
not popo = poop
copper radish
Just did m0 as outlaw for funzies and topped dmg, are we hidden op, pitty this g...
Thanks for the nerf 😭
wintry solar
not popo = poop
We're gonna have to take that up wit Moroes
gray summit
Our dps is low. Our Tierset suck. They Killed us
copper radish
20% aura nerf inc on Friday
mighty pivot
We're gonna have to take that up wit Moroes
moroes already confirmed that popo = poop, if he can confirm that not popo also = poop, then everything is poop
wintry solar
Which includes you...
near rock
I would be happy with no tuning at all 🙂
wintry solar
Dot dot dot
static crescent
honestly im really hoping unrealisticly a lot for some buffs on friday or so, outlaw is by far the most fun to play out of my toons rn
wintry solar
20% aura nerf inc on Friday
There's a big ass bump on my left should and it hurts like a mfer. And my shirt rubs it the wrong way it's like someone stabbing me
blissful gate
fuck THAT
im so mad they capped the fkn thing at 4k just so healers and tanks could cheese it
mighty pivot
was it free for healers too?
blissful gate
healers just afk healed valeera before they changed her i think
as long as you didnt pull threat it was free
mighty pivot
ok but it was free for dps too before they made those changes
static crescent
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
fickle relic
time to test blade rush damage, brb
dark ember
When are you ideally supposed to press Prep?
cinder relic
whats the issue exactly?
fickle relic
it's below everything even with a 45% buff D:
it's not even affected by menacing rush, because it's not a cp generator, nor finisher
a bit disappointing if you ask me
cinder relic
isnt brush still our highest DPE
wintry solar
It was a while ago and I don't remember that ever changing
stable nest
does anyone have the jpc zdps vs ele meme on hand i cant find it
glass mortar
isnt brush still our highest DPE
a distant second
its an ability with a long cd tho and it doesnt hit ST all that hard, its not surprising its so low
BR is fine (just give it another charge 
)
fickle relic
that'd be great
fossil lintel
give everything another charge
grim spear
wtf
grim spear
glass mortar
hits u as hard as he hits the tanks tho
vagrant pilot
grim spear
lone depot
!macro
ornate heathBOT
Macroing gs is relatively "ok", be aware that it wont ever be entirely optimal: target swapping in m+ or putting it on a dying target for example. You can macro it to all your abilities.
wintry solar
Relic from an older time
junior coral
vapid void
dis thing any good?
mellow dagger
is vessel still b tier?
cinder relic
is vessel still b tier?
its a bit gimmicky
mellow dagger
how so? it looks like sacbrood to me
mellow dagger
oh ew to the bottom of the list
scarlet drum
Is there any point to do tier 11 delves if you don't have a bounty?
wintry solar
Don't they have gilded crests?
scarlet drum
I think that's only if you're delve Rank 4?
lilac rose
!addons
rare rapids
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
mellow dagger
are we dooming now
dim parrot
yeah I geared a sham just in case
copper radish
I think that's only if you're delve Rank 4?
Yeah once u get rank 4 tier 11 gives a box with 5. Get four boxes a week so 20 max
dim parrot
Unbelievable toolkit compared to rogue idk why rogue would ever get an inv to m+
mellow dagger
how i feel with a mage in my back pocket
people have said all rogue needs is damage and its meta though. not sure what else it brings
by people i mean zorthas when i asked him
random stirrup
it doesnt bring anything else
dim parrot
Rogue needs higher tuning than other classes to make meta because it lacks other stuff
random stirrup
but anything tuned high is meta
mellow dagger
are they afraid of rogue scaling with war buff and monk buff
dim parrot
But bro if rogue gets a better toolkit they’ll be too OP in PvP!!!!!!!
mellow dagger
yeah being useless on that one xalatath affix sounds miserable
wintry solar
But bro if rogue gets a better toolkit they’ll be too OP in PvP!!!!!!!
They're fine with sub being op
So really it's outlaw and assa holding rogue back
mellow dagger
sub is op in pvp?
wintry solar
Still maintained it's toolkit so ya
mellow dagger
no meme just clarifying
lilac rose
apologies if this is a stupid question but how tf do you get trackers like this anymore since they removed WAs?
can't find any addons for it
mellow dagger
cooldown manager and sensei's resource bar is a good start
built in cooldown manager*
lilac rose
okay thank you
craggy barn
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
lucid coral
why does outlaw rogue have bad single target?
thorn parrot
I just got Molly wopped in raid meters. Feels bad man, I thought I would come in with better DPS than that. Hope yalls raid nights went better
thin fiber
I just got Molly wopped in raid meters. Feels bad man, I thought I would come in...
I'm going in to lie down and get loot. Feels way better that way
scarlet drum
So can we reach Delver's journey Rank 4 this week? Does it just take a long time? Or are we locked to rank 3 for this week or something?
peak dock
!up
ornate heathBOT
celest cobalt
🙁
tulip warren
Did full normal and every boss except the last one on hc, felt like tickled every boss coz was almost last on the meters on every boss by amile, is it just me or are outlaw rogue somewhat weak in the raid 🙁
cinder relic
Rogue kinda mid
tulip warren
Rogue kinda mid
ye, hopefully we get some love
tulip warren
(I play with bad people to make myself look better)
haha ye! I need to do that 😂
wintry solar
Get that bag king
cinder relic
Guys we won
next veldt
!wa
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
pearl topaz
Its a bit annoying to have them simplify everything and then give us the same middling dps lol
rancid silo
worthy surge
yeah I think rogues in general need a bit of a buff
and once the sub rogues get tier I think it might be a little hard to keep up on OL unless you get some nice rtb rng
wide arch
Is it just me or is the raid instance really laggy and it makes our apex talent take like a full second to register and refund BtE?
worthy surge
but outlaw in general doesnt feel bad this tier I think we just need a little more damage
fathom bramble
unfortunately a rogue ganked me in strangethorn vale 16 years ago while I was level 35
so no buffs
zenith sparrow
did everyone craft already?
next veldt
Rogue kinda sucks but honestly outlaw feels solid
with sub as it currently is, and raidfights as they are. Thoughts on outlaw acutally being the play?
feels like the most outlaw tier there is since legion or something
zenith sparrow
did everyone craft already?
and are we using crests for the craft?
burnt grail
Is it just me or is the raid instance really laggy and it makes our apex talent ...
I was getting some lag like that last night on OCE
cinder relic
with sub as it currently is, and raidfights as they are. Thoughts on outlaw acut...
I do think its the play
next veldt
next veldt
I do think its the play
compared to assi?
i dont have enough brainpower to learn both
mellow dagger
!fuu
ornate heathBOT
Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version
stone frost
Has anyone here played both outlaw and sub? I'm thinking of going sub after kinda being disappointed in outlaw
It feels fun at times, but it just seems weak compared to a lot of other classes/builds
vivid vessel
Is it just me or is the raid instance really laggy and it makes our apex talent ...
Ye for some reason the apex refund can be super delayed
While ace can't
Wonder what happened there !
cinder relic
no hof but i did it legit @fathom bramble
fathom bramble
nice
wintry solar
no hof but i did it legit <@101843879791177728>
Lot of kiting I assume?
cinder relic
No
fathom bramble
Wonder what happened there !
I suspect apex is on the projectile impact while ace is on spending
cinder relic
Just staggering orbs, just hard
fathom bramble
no idea why one would recode it and make it different from something so similar
but here we are
cinder relic
7:18 kill timer
vivid vessel
idk im not enjoying these new devs making everything worse im ngl
cinder relic
didnt bother lusting could have been faster
vivid vessel
the 2nd ss being delayed cp now is litteraly hell
cinder relic
P sure thats always been delayed
vivid vessel
no not like that
fathom bramble
for a long time the cp from 2nd hit of ss was instant
gained at the same time as opp right when you pressed it
fathom bramble
ambush double hits were delayed though
and the actual impact of the 2nd hit of ss was delayed which could give a combo point with the old cp on crit talent
naive river
You think outlaw will get any tuning Tuesday?
fathom bramble
it's very noticeable, but not particularly problematic to me
playing on like 50-60 usually
wintry solar
You think outlaw will get any tuning Tuesday?
The uh tuning was a red herring
vivid vessel
I dont feel a difference
you dont see yourr cps being super delayed lol?
stone frost
Sub feels even worse
Srsly? Jeeeeez
wintry solar
So probably not
cinder relic
you dont see yourr cps being super delayed lol?
no
vivid vessel
it's very noticeable, but not particularly problematic to me
idk it just feels clunky
hollow bloom
Its way clunky
fathom bramble
you still know ss is double hitting from opp going up
vivid vessel
ey and there is no other way to have a sound on fth so
cinder relic
Gaming
Not full done our splits 
Got big weapon, 2 piece, and some random off pieces
Big things happening this tier
vivid vessel
big outlaw tier i heard
stone frost
If I want a nice OH dagger should I swap to sub/ass loot spec?
cinder relic
I think sub is ass
fathom bramble
idk it just feels clunky
you should have seen this delay on legion launch
stone frost
I kleep fucking getting CLAWS
fathom bramble
the opp proc and combo point were delayed this long
vivid vessel
I think sub is ass
i think you forget sub litteraly get a 10% aura buff compared to ther other 2 spec once it gets 4p
fathom bramble
but saber slash made a different noise if it was going to double hit
and that is the only way to tell if it was a double hit fast enough to react
cinder relic
i think you forget sub litteraly get a 10% aura buff compared to ther other 2 sp...
I think ur forgetting how bad these fights are for sub
vivid vessel
I think ur forgetting how bad these fights are for sub
last boss is more of a sub fight than outlaw tho
so idk what you mean
or sin
onyx trench
!ui
ornate heathBOT
Resources:
- ArcUI / BetterCDM - common suites for buff/cd customization
- WangBar - displays CPs/energy, customize colors per point, faster than Sensei
- MSUF - recommendation for unit frames
- Platynator - recommendation for nameplates (Jundies Profile)
Misc: - Clickable Raid Buffs - for poisons
- WilduTools - random QoL like melee range indicator, track cursor
- Mute Cold Blood sound - if we ever go back to this talent
stone frost
i think you forget sub litteraly get a 10% aura buff compared to ther other 2 sp...
Hey man but our weakest move gets an entire tier set built around it
vivid vessel
i mean there is no way you play outlaw on it
vivid vessel
there is 2x a 1min downtime for cooldowns
i cant see that being very good for outlaw
:D
fathom bramble
Not full done our splits <a:GlorpCheer:1269947568163655774>
I haven't entered the raid yet
250 ilvl on every slot though
stone frost
No 250 tabard or shirt tsk
Are y'all using the crucible trink? I can't tell if it's good or not. I also dno if sims even tracks it properly
fathom bramble
you can tell the sim what you have unlocked on the thing
stone frost
Interesting
fathom bramble
stone frost
Ah I use simcraft
vivid vessel
you unlocked it all ?
fathom bramble
no
cinder relic
U get 2 currency items on the first week
fathom bramble
I have only 2 of them
vivid vessel
ye i have one rn
cause i did it first week
but i didnt do it this week yet
wait
that means i have 2 not 3 right
like i missed a week
stone frost
I don't think I missed a week and I only have 2. But I haven't done it this week
cinder relic
but yeah alleria might be sub/sin but kinda depends what the fight is asking for
Intermissions like that fight will favor burst cds but wh0 knows
THe rest of the raid still exists
Outlaw has a handful of solid fights
(vs the other rogue specs ofc)
better than mfo
WHere the spec was literally bottom 1
actually just feels correct on some fights
vivid vessel
idk i still think you are kinda ignoring the 10% number haha
but we will see
i think all 3 rogue specs are kinda not great anyway
fiery timber
Feral
cinder relic
idk i still think you are kinda ignoring the 10% number haha
I think ur ignoring how shit Sub is on these fights
And ignoring sin execute
stone frost
I just strongly considered sub but now ppl sayin that sucks just as much
cinder relic
Like sub isn't fundamentally better on fights like it used to be
vivid vessel
I think ur ignoring how shit Sub is on these fights
well which fight for example
stone frost
Like sub isn't fundamentally better on fights like it used to be
So it's just sometimes better?
cinder relic
So it's just sometimes better?
Sub used to have a lot of fundamental strengths in its kit that it lost
vivid vessel
cinder relic
is this missleading ?
This is dragons
semi misleading
at least rn, when the bosses are grounded, you can 2 target cleave them
On heroic 1 is in the air, 1 is grounded
so u cant full cleave them all the time
random stirrup
I'm still not convinced sub 2target is even worse than the others after tier
vivid vessel
but isnt that the same in mythic or
random stirrup
and you might actually need damage for orbs
vivid vessel
isnt there something where they need to be kept far enough or smth
cinder relic
Yes but u can cleave them both
vivid vessel
okok
vivid vessel
I'm still not convinced sub 2target is even worse than the others after tier
pure 2t sim its a bit behind outlaw
sin idk sin sims are cooked
random stirrup
ye it's a bit behind but also its outlaw sims
vivid vessel
well its a 100% uptime boss
cinder relic
I think its a Sin/Otl tier
Not a sub tier
I think sub bad
Thats my take for the tier
Sin is good if it can get a CD in execute, or u care about execute in general
random stirrup
do u even think dragon will be a wall
cinder relic
Some fights will just line up well
cinder relic
do u even think dragon will be a wall
I think dragons will be a 50-100
random stirrup
it was definitely our highest pull count by a lot
vivid vessel
this is 3 target tho, and sub is only 20 % behind, which will be reduced to 10% after tier set, and thats legit worse case scenario for sub no ?
like thats kinda my point right
vivid vessel
ye which is worse case scenario
random stirrup
i dont think people are playing paladins correctly
cinder relic
ITs like 65% 3 35% 2
wide arch
Do you run the single target or do you try and take cleave on the dragon fight. did it tonight and it felt really bad but our strat needs tuning
random stirrup
it's a bit weird to mechanically execute as sub with how fast and often your builder finisher rules are changing
and i dont think people are even aware of the rules yet
vivid vessel
you acting like sub is too hard to play rn or what
random stirrup
no no
vivid vessel
imma hit you on the head ryldd
random stirrup
but swapping perma between 2 and 3 target means
you swap between storm at 2 target outside dance, strike at 2 in dance, storm at 3 in dance, bp at 3 targets, evis at 2
cinder relic
What ur describing is why I said "fuck playing sin" on DH boss
random stirrup
your casts are very varied and i dont think people are doing it correctly
cinder relic
I'm sure if u play it perfectly its like, okayish
But like
Why am I spending this much mental tax on so many finisher and builder conditionals
Why not just play something easier and just like, play the game yk
vivid vessel
but swapping perma between 2 and 3 target means
only thing im a bit confused about
is find weakness
how come none of the sims you guys did
take that into account
random stirrup
idk how do u track that
cinder relic
fw is a buff
vivid vessel
when you are in 2 target you wont have fw on both
random stirrup
its not in cdm
cinder relic
innit
vivid vessel
oh its a buff ?
random stirrup
ye
vivid vessel
its not a debuff
cinder relic
they made FW a buff this expac
random stirrup
yes very good change
vivid vessel
(i havent looked into sub that much yet)
random stirrup
but also just remove it 
vivid vessel
i mean if its a buff its kinda whateve
cinder relic
But yeah idk I'm sure if u play perfect sub it's not "that bad on paladins" but if I'm not practiced on sub it's for sure not worth playing it when its also barely worse either way lol
vivid vessel
its not really what im saying
cinder relic
U smell me
random stirrup
like this sequence
vivid vessel
its more that
cinder relic
Im talking about ryldd
random stirrup
But yeah idk I'm sure if u play perfect sub it's not "that bad on paladins" but ...
yes
was just saying stats wise
vivid vessel
so to me once you get 10% buff from tier set compared to the other 2 specs
i just dont see how sub wouldnt just pull ahead then
not on paladin prolly obviouslyt
random stirrup
i will play it because I like it, but I don't think it is as bad at paladins as it seems because people don't know how to do 2-3 target properly yet
it's still bad tho like all rogue specs
idk bench pov
random stirrup
my sources tell me its now the highest simming spec in the game again
by over 5k
and could move up more with talent changes
vivid vessel
(its ahead rogue on most fights)