outlaw

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[dawn talon]

no pc is just dogshit talent design

[quaint mauve]

i was making a joke

yeah pc sucks

half our talent tree sucks and shoulda been baseline

[opal raven]

woaw

[quaint mauve]

we have to talent INTO being hard capped at 8 targs

[indigo token]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413245732118593606/image.gif

[cinder relic]

Wait until you find out you need to talent into getting access to any aoe for a lot of classes

Fury is target capped to 1 without talents

[frail veldt]

ngl both hero talents make outlaw worse imo

[dawn talon]

ok but we aren't a lot of classes, outlaw has always had very easy access to its aoe

[frail veldt]

talenting into 8 cap isnt even a big deal

[dawn talon]

i feel like that's a really stupid argument to make when that was like, specifically our thing

[frail veldt]

but we should also be able to talent into soft capped lol

[dawn talon]

id be cool with that

[frail veldt]

id be fine if our baseline was 5 and we could extend it to a softcapped 8

even if baseline was hard capped 5

idgaf

[dawn talon]

DS removed, deft + softcapped at 8 as one capstone-tier talent?

[quaint mauve]

make blade rush a builder

uncapped aoe

[dawn talon]

i really do not want to hit blade rush

[quaint mauve]

and cleave with blade flurry

[dawn talon]

rotationally

[quaint mauve]

i do

[dawn talon]

like felblade sometimes moving you because a mob moved 10cm

is insanely cringe

and havoc is not a super positionally strict spec like outlaw already is

that just sounds miserable

[cinder relic]

That one mfer that hates everything

[quaint mauve]

😭

[dawn talon]

no i think we just have a bunch of dogshit

that needs to go

i love sub in its current state even though it functionally has 1 hero tree

[patent mirage]

hey we got riposte

[severe drift]

https://tenor.com/view/well-waiting-were-waiting-gif-5848728

[tender wedge]

When the tank dying is a dps increase

[granite merlin]

So trying to figure out where my missing couple million dps is when there is a huge pull do you just rip through crackshot windows right away after ad rush?

And killing spree

[quaint mauve]

im confused by your question

on first pull yeah , but you should always have adr up

[quaint mauve]

dont get ur hopes up

its not gonna happen

[indigo token]

https://tenor.com/view/when-your-son-is-a-geek-kam-edwards-banging-head-gif-10845145880130905144

[vivid vessel]

hi

[cinder relic]

Hi

[vivid vessel]

[haughty wigeon]

you shot guy

[limber hazel]

Hello all! is there a general rule as to when to use finisher with 5+ combo points and when to use with 6+ ? I am a little confused on this part

[torpid fiber]

5+ in subterfuge and 6+ otherwise

[limber hazel]

thanks. does this also apply to Stealth? like if I am stealthed and have 5 combo from previous fight

[restive obsidian]

Does anyone know if there's a weakaura for when the set bonus procs or if that's even possible for trickster

[frail veldt]

ye then you would open with a finisher

[restive obsidian]

Other than just tracking Buff.

[frail veldt]

not possible

have to just track when you see the stacks go up

its awful

[restive obsidian]

It was more to make me hate myself when/if it procs during coup stacks

[frail veldt]

yeup

[limber hazel]

last question: if I have opportunity buff or audacity buff up should I finish with 5?

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/mr-bean-rowan-atkinson-waiting-watch-time-passing-by-gif-17639759

yeah dunno

its zac's fault

delayed another week

[wintry solar]

whats for dinner

I cant eat more grapes

[daring oxide]

oh well

outlaw rework in 6days

look forward to that instead

[limber hazel]

? will they change outlaw? in 11.2.5?

[daring oxide]

in phase 1 of alpha, releases 2nd october next week

[limber hazel]

nice

[daring oxide]

im sad though our apex talents dont come until later

I had a nice apex talent idea called Notorious

[limber hazel]

I bet most classes will get a rework and will probably be much easier to play, since they are going to remove addons. Frost DK rework actually is a sign imo

[daring oxide]

yeah hopefully

blizzards plans is to delete and ban all addons

[indigo token]

i dont trust blizz to remove addons in a way that makes the game better

[wintry solar]

you dont trust blizz

[daring oxide]

so hopefully they'll do away with the RTB container

hidden unseen blades buffs

etc

[mighty pivot]

why would you do that?

[daring oxide]

and make things trackable on cooldown manager

[indigo token]

the cd manager shitshow convinced me of that

[wintry solar]

it wasnt that bad

its a lot better than it was and its going to be even better soon

[indigo token]

thats the thing

[daring oxide]

not my fault, the cleaner told me they struggling, need more time to cook

[indigo token]

it took a while for it to get to that point

if you want us to switch it has to be the same or better day 1

[mighty pivot]

more time to cook that 4% aura buff

[daring oxide]

are you zeross

im so confused

[indigo token]

im oneoss

[daring oxide]

well they need to get it right, maybe 4% isn't enough, maybe Precise cuts needs to be tuned down, our BF aura back to 50% etc

like its really difficult

it takes time to think about each of these individual changes

needs a lot of time, thought, and tender care to ensure the absolute correct tuning changes are made

thats why these things often take weeks to months to change these single components

[mighty pivot]

understandable, let's hope they make that decision before midnight, since it appear to be a final decision

[bright crane]

The hopium

[indigo token]

like

[daring oxide]

plus they need to do lots of checks incase they might of mispressed a key somewhere else in the code, made a typo etc, they can't have a repeat of reintroducing bugs due to funny devops oppsies, etc

[indigo token]

i said this in the sin channel

[daring oxide]

have to be very rigorous with these things, meticulous all the way

[indigo token]

i'd gladly take a season 4 for a less buggy midnight

becuase this expansion has been exhaustingly buggy

[daring oxide]

i do think they should probably slow down the cadence, its true that this expansion in the ways of bugs and quality of releases has been dogbottom throughout TWW

[quaint mauve]

i hate asking for log reviews

[daring oxide]

i remember when outlaw became the best spec in the game, with BM hunter level power for almost a week

[wintry solar]

we had the content though which is nice

[daring oxide]

when we had extra CP finisher tech

[indigo token]

yeah man

[daring oxide]

thanks to hero talent tech

perma coup

now that was peak and fun

now bm hunters get to do that with just proper tuning 🙂 no bugs involved!

[craggy quiver]

Rip critters

[indigo token]

dastardly duos, horrific visions revisited, nightfall, lorewalking totally amazing

[craggy quiver]

They were slain for our greed

[keen belfry]

CHIHIRO - BIllie Eilish

whats our overall thoughts gonna be on TWW

i think warbounds are goated of all time

turbo boost? meh

m+ seasons were MEH

[wintry solar]

not everything will be catered to you

I liked most of it

crazy how that works

[daring oxide]

turbo boost is alright, brings a tiny bit of life into the game mid season, always feels good to grow in power

but S2 was the best season for outlaw

but that was thanks to decent tuning, and very good/fun tier set

but its a shame it ended in a flop with s3

[craggy quiver]

KS was so ass tho

[indigo token]

eh

[craggy quiver]

Killed s2 for me

[indigo token]

yeah the ks sized elephant in the room

[mighty pivot]

today's Connections was gigaez wtfrick

[daring oxide]

i mean

[wintry solar]

This expac was pretty solid tbh

[daring oxide]

yes KS in s2 was painful, but it was very quick to get used to it

[craggy quiver]

I wanna neck myself using KS on mugzee

[daring oxide]

but tbh

[wintry solar]

Wasnt an Outlaw expac but it had its high points. The dungeons for M+ were solid and the raids werent bad at all

[daring oxide]

i had more of a laugh

at the memes of old KS during S2

just the funny shit it did

when u had mechanics on you

made up for it

it was a garbage spell though 100%

but was fun to troll with it

[craggy quiver]

If they had fated season

New ks with old tier would go hard

[daring oxide]

nah

new ks is a slight improvement

but in many ways

[quaint mauve]

new KS and go hard in the same sentence

[daring oxide]

its terrible

[wintry solar]

normally I'd rate expacs based on how fun Outlaw is but this one is an exception because its design is so garbage for the type of content blizz wants to put out

[daring oxide]

the channel/cd too long

the rng random targetting needs to go too

[craggy quiver]

Trickster ho with KS is way better than old ks

[daring oxide]

meh HO is so boring

[craggy quiver]

No shot you take old ks over new

[daring oxide]

feels like halfway to playing ret pala

no

i like KS as it is now

[quaint mauve]

KS is better now

[daring oxide]

but channel needs to be faster, cd shorter, and no rng targetting

[sweet iron]

if it means i do damage again just give me the ks that fkin kills me

[quaint mauve]

but still worst spell in game idk

[wintry solar]

thats a stretch

Only thing I dont like about new KS is the random targeting and not being able to kick or KiR

[daring oxide]

ya

those two things are cringe too

[wintry solar]

yeah theyre big

[daring oxide]

oh well

its just the first iteration of the new KS

im sure they've already made improvements to KS for the outlaw rework

they've been given the feedback

so we'll have to wait and see if they are actually listening or if devs prefer to stay by their own philosophy, which is normal sometimes if they have their own vision and preferences

[strong cargo]

The amont of rookery I broke just by pressing ks even after 20-30 tries I couldn't get all the timings right

[daring oxide]

we find out anyways in 6 days !

[daring oxide]

i mean i just held KS until it was safe to press

or sent it with claok

cloak

in rookery

you just hold it until mid phase is over

or send with cloak

it wasn't that bad

it was just a garbage spell thats all

[wintry solar]

"...which is normal sometimes if they have their own vision and preferences"

this is why I dont really care if they go overboard with making it easier. Who am I to say what their vision of their game is?

[daring oxide]

but the thing is that we were tuned well

and we could play trickster

not dogbound spec

[silver venture]

is that real? i cant find any news about outlaw rework

[daring oxide]

erm yes

[wintry solar]

Alpha in 6 days

called out by devs twice

theres a rework

fo sho

[indigo token]

im going to be unfathomably furious if they turn us into ret pal

[keen belfry]

i think this was a terrible outlaw xpac in retrospect

s1

s2 ks

s3

[daring oxide]

in 6 days they release alpha, and the friends, family and content creators will get access to it.

However they will also release info of class changes, and i'm very much 99.9% expecting to see the outlaw rework that Ion and Jade Martin spoke about in their interviews (UH DKs also getting them).

Phase 1 alpha hits 2nd october

[wintry solar]

yeah thats why its the only expac im not ranking it based on how outlaw is because its pretty good on my other classes.

[daring oxide]

i don't know what the dates are for alpha phases

like are they coming every week

every 2 weeks

or

but

im expecting Midnight to get released in August 2026

[keen belfry]

i think s1 dungeons were very bad but i got to play enhance shaman so

nerubar palace was so mid

s2 dungeons were bangers

raid was ok

s3 dungeons are fine

raid is good

[wintry solar]

S2 had the best thhis expac and I loved the raid

raid is good

[keen belfry]

nerubar palace actual stinker

[indigo token]

i wont lie

[keen belfry]

i legit think ulgrax is my least fav boss

[daring oxide]

nah

[keen belfry]

ever

[indigo token]

i am very antsy to see what they have

[daring oxide]

i loved Kyveza fight in nerubar

it was fucking great

[indigo token]

i dont trust them to be good

[wintry solar]

idrc for the M+ dungeons but theyre not bad. I just wouldve chose different ones

[indigo token]

but i need to see it

[keen belfry]

ulgrax was the worst boss EVER EVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

[daring oxide]

mythic kyveza was my favourite fight this tier

[indigo token]

the anticipation is worse than anything

[daring oxide]

this expan

[glass mortar]

kyveza mythic my favorite fight of the expac tbh

[daring oxide]

same

[glass mortar]

was a real banger

[daring oxide]

its the most perfect fight

just bullet hell style

[red zinc]

my favorite fight of the tier is dimensius raid finder

[wintry solar]

Dimmy is my fav this expac

[glass mortar]

the movement and dodges were so precise and pretimed that it was basically a 100% uptime fight if u played it correctly to

[wintry solar]

just not on outlaw

[daring oxide]

my favourite fight of the tier was LFR Flarendo

if i got the laser beam

i would press KS

and kill like 10 noobs

and still live

i fucking loved it

or was it normal Flarendo

can't remember

one of them

[keen belfry]

was there a single good fight in undermine? carnage?

[daring oxide]

erm

Sprocket?

[keen belfry]

vexie is good first boss

not sprocket

[daring oxide]

OAB?

i loved OAB

[keen belfry]

idk

[limpid vortex]

Literally all of them except mugzee

[daring oxide]

Outlaw was super OP at OAB

[keen belfry]

you tink stix was a good boss?

rik reverb?

[daring oxide]

nah

stix was garbage

[limpid vortex]

Yeah I do, and I'm tired of pretending they aren't

[daring oxide]

reverb was good until they nerfed evasion

they should of made adds spawn

during intermission in reverb

[keen belfry]

gally was kinda buttcheeks too

[limpid vortex]

Bosses with pass/fail mechanics aren't automatically bad

[daring oxide]

so we had something to hit

[keen belfry]

i played mage until mugzee...........................................

[daring oxide]

traitor

[keen belfry]

im a trader

[daring oxide]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1401910363414335608/block.gif

[wintry solar]

Loved rik reverb

[keen belfry]

my bad!!

[daring oxide]

nice firestrike nooba

[wintry solar]

this expac was great if you didnt play outlaw

[daring oxide]

im weird, i actually have a folder called Awangawanga

full of your gif s

gifs

[keen belfry]

i stil think amirdrassil goat raid

[dawn talon]

sprocket oab goat bosses

[keen belfry]

amidrassil had
best first boss ever
igira fun pad fight
a good patchwerk volc fight
smolderon - tindral - fyrakk goated last 3

[severe drift]

tindral was so damn great of a fight

[keen belfry]

the nerfed version my guild fought was goated

same with fyrakk

hard but faiir

[dawn talon]

i thought igira was really boring tbh

[keen belfry]

fyrakk intermission WA bad tho

[severe drift]

fyrak randomness of aoe drops was boring af tho

[keen belfry]

fair

[dawn talon]

but smold trindral fyrakk were awesome except private aura bullshit

[cinder relic]

Fyrak was a great fight

[daring oxide]

@near rock are you alive

hope you are holding up well brother

[keen belfry]

yeah i look back at fyrakk and tindral as my goated goats

thats my first ever CE!!!!!

[severe drift]

this

[cinder relic]

Dimensius is a great fight too. I love it so much

[dawn talon]

fyrakk was actually pretty fun to tank

[daring oxide]

ya dimmy is great

i love the theme

[dawn talon]

dimensius is a rly fun fight for ranged

[craggy quiver]

Maybe I'll like dimmy when I play sub lol

[daring oxide]

ye

[red zinc]

I got a weird view on bosses now

[keen belfry]

ill be curious to see my shitter guild on saladbar and dimensisu

[daring oxide]

sub is fun on dimmy

everything lines up

its very satisfying

[dawn talon]

enjoyed it a little less on melee but like as long as u don't play outlaw on it it's still enjoyable

[craggy quiver]

Sub is fun on nexus

[daring oxide]

ye

[red zinc]

Dimensius is dope but I hate these bosses where movement precision is required

[daring oxide]

sub is even better with autumn on nexus

ask for autumn

[red zinc]

cause my social raiders just cant

[craggy quiver]

I just send everything on cd

[keen belfry]

y

[dawn talon]

i try to consider that when im talking about like

heroic and especially normal versions of bosses

[red zinc]

getting like 1-2 people knocked off on every slam on dimmy hc

[daring oxide]

i kinda wanna reroll to bm hunter

for the rest of the expansion

[dawn talon]

if they're ranged u can just tell them to go to the cheese spot

and only move to drop pools

there's a little lip on the back of the platform

that u won't get knocked back on

[red zinc]

ill take a look at it

[cinder relic]

Its fun for melee too wdym lol

I don't think area denial as a mechanic existing means melee isn't fun

[indigo token]

im gonna put this out

the core of outlaw to me, lies in 2 things

high apm, and a lot of cdr

[craggy quiver]

Blessing of autumn still a thing?

[red zinc]

we got guy and gyu

and now zeross and oneoss

[indigo token]

if they dont fuck with those

im good

[red zinc]

what has the world come to

[indigo token]

hi yes

OH

also

i dont want to have an actual aoe rotation

part of why I like outlaw is I can just keep doing my ST rotation in aoe

[dawn talon]

it's not the area denial i just have poor eyesight and some of the aoes in p1 and the stars in p3 are hard to see without a wa telling me im safe and that's just kinda annoying

doesn't ruin the fight but i enjoyed it less

[cinder relic]

Fair

[torpid fiber]

yeah, a fun part of outlaw is that in exchange for having a somewhat more difficult st rotation, we get to always benefit from our mastery of that rotation whether it's st or aoe

[indigo token]

imagine restless blades becomes our mastery

[wintry solar]

RB becomes a cooldown

[proven ocean]

?

who tf are u

@vivid vessel is that ur alt acc

or

[indigo token]

im oneoss

[proven ocean]

one oss

and zeross

????????????

what

zero ss

one ss

??

[wintry solar]

dude I was talking to you like you were Zeross lol

[proven ocean]

???? LOL

no way u thought i was oneoss

ur cooked popo

[wintry solar]

consult the tier list please

[dense bolt]

wrong

correct wording

[proven ocean]

what tier list

[dense bolt]

is microwaved

[proven ocean]

ye true LMAO

@wintry solar u know the movie

everything everywhere all at once

ur cooked, microwaved and fried all at once

[proven ocean]

heard it won oscars too

did u win one too popo?

[wintry solar]

yeah with Jamie Lee Curtis?

[wintry solar]

an Oscarmeyer

close enough

[proven ocean]

idk who jackie citrus is but

ye

[wintry solar]

put respect on her name rn

[mighty pivot]

the goat is trying but it is futile

[proven ocean]

oh

jamie

close to jackie tho

oh

curtis

wtf

[wintry solar]

he says im cooked

[proven ocean]

popo...

[indigo token]

did he mix up an asian actor with jamie lee curtis

[mighty pivot]

you're both on the same tier of cooked tbh

[proven ocean]

says zac

the master cookage

of all cookers

[mighty pivot]

it's the only tier list we have

[proven ocean]

even his tier list is microwaved

nah u know what

im making one myself

nvm my brain got bored i wont do it

[wintry solar]

ive been less cooked as of late theres no denying

[mighty pivot]

I want to see popo's tier list

[wintry solar]

it'd just be a tier list of who I like most

we talked about this

[mighty pivot]

so nobody would be there

[wintry solar]

most of yall would

[mighty pivot]

I was not part of that

[limpid vortex]

Hooooly shit. Getting the haste breakpoint, an agility offhand, and soul hunters boots took me from 2.78m sim to 3.67m sim on single target by itself. I don't even have 4 piece yet

[torpid fiber]

an agility offhand

honestly this is probably most of it unless you were wayyyy below breakpoint

[limpid vortex]

I was using a strength axe because I didn't have anything else. And I went from 12% haste to 27% haste

[torpid fiber]

27% is a lot

[limpid vortex]

I know, but it's a 7k haste necklace and I literally can't meet breakpoint unless I use it

[torpid fiber]

yeah that's fair

[limpid vortex]

Don't have alternatives for the other haste slots

Hopefully vault will be nice to me though

[torpid fiber]

Just going to have to drop haste in other slots over time

[limpid vortex]

Yep that's the plan

Decided to just toss a catalyst charge and 4-piece was only 90k DPS upgrade 😄

[past thicket]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1rkhKuh7xZJEtXiptowLY2 should i gave up outlaw

[torpid fiber]

We can't tell that from a sim

do you enjoy playing the spec

[limpid vortex]

Aren't dungeon sims notoriously unreliable since most of it is in both the tank's hands and your ability to stick right up his butt the entire time without dying to mechanics?

[past thicket]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/character/us/frostmourne/danzo? i suck and the spec suck

[limpid vortex]

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in those

[torpid fiber]

dslice is a useful metric for comparing items/talents in dungeons

but you're right, it does not correspond to actual expected dungeon dps

[junior coral]

August 2026 lmao!?

[cinder relic]

The point of a Sim is to tell you what upgrades you should get.

[limpid vortex]

That one is a quick sim

[cinder relic]

Oh well then yeah it's useless

That number only exists to dick measure to other ppl in Ur spec

[limpid vortex]

I get a ton of use out of quick sim

It lets me see at a glance how bad I am at my spec and where to improve without having to deep dive logs

[old gull]

no changes i see

[cinder relic]

But it doesn't do that

[spare lake]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[rare shoal]

Does the dmg procs of the Elemental Focusing Lens spread via Blade Flurry?

[glass mortar]

No

It doesnt scale with aoe other then to waste procs into other targets occasionally

[proven ocean]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1421277088526110820/Medal_wtwbIUI5l9.gif

@vivid vessel

[stiff vector]

Nice game

[quick scaffold]

How to keep adr running on fatebound ? Is bte the only thing that pause time ?

[torpid fiber]

subterfuge is the only thing that pauses it, but if you have 4p it should be easy to keep up on outlaw as long as you can keep uptime

[spare lake]

any suggestions on simple wa pack

[proven ocean]

read fatebout tier set

fatebound*

it affects AR

well stealth is only thing ye

lucky coin makes ur AR better too

[vivid vessel]

skill issue

[keen belfry]

my bad

[proven ocean]

skill issue

@vivid vessel hows it going

[cinder relic]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[limpid vortex]

What does it mean if I'm still running dry of energy with 27% haste? Lack of finishers due to bad rotation? Using the recommended KiR ST build.

[honest sparrow]

You dont need so much haste to begin with. Haste loses nearly all its value after getting the haste cap for adr. Best just to sim your character.

And sometimes you can just run dry but you can check your adr uptime to see if you are doing alot of mistakes.

[torpid fiber]

play + sometimes it just happens

[limpid vortex]

Ok thanks

[rare shoal]

If elemental lenses don't spread through blade flurry how can they be better than versweave or ascendance+writhing?

[cinder relic]

Because it does more single target

[stiff vector]

wox just timed 21 gambit

[keen belfry]

he did 800m less soleah dmg than the bm

interesting

INTERESTING

[stiff vector]

didnt look at the log yet, jsut watched the end of it on stream

but I can only imagine what the bosses look like+first area lol

lol banshers basically did 2x the boss dmg of outlaw on 1st boss, and like 600m more on hooktail too

[hasty warren]

skill issue

[stiff vector]

[restive obsidian]

My question is where does he even catch up in damage.

Is he there literally for permanent tricks

[vivid vessel]

he doesnt

outlaw catch up damage on pads tho

like when you have random adds on bosses

[stiff vector]

hes there because theyre friends and been playing together for years, and hes the NA goat outlaw

[vivid vessel]

but you dont catch up this season

outlaw is trash

[hasty warren]

make outlaw great again

[restive obsidian]

I mean ,he's just 2 billion behind

[vivid vessel]

he is 1mil dps behind

while being bottom dps

on evertyuthing that is relevant

prio damage

st

[restive obsidian]

Overall, it's almost 2 billion damage

[vivid vessel]

he pretty much just catch up on the irrelevant damage

while also not providing any raid buff

[copper radish]

when buffs

[restive obsidian]

You know the answer. Nothing is changing, maybe rework on alpha.

[ocean lodge]

I'm expecting we'll be rioting in a week.

"based off people who don't play outlaw, we removed everything you liked :D"

[real falcon]

Just got mythic logic gate alpha. As soon as I respec for outlaw. Haha. Maybe it's a sign

[severe drift]

considering we're like 50 ppl playing this spec, they won't be bothered too much lmfao

[zinc briar]

how are we still playing this bullsht class?

[severe drift]

cuz deep inside we like bdsm stuff

[fallen mural]

50??? At least 200 of us are playing it 😛

[severe drift]

that's 200 ppl that should play something else

except for Zac, he's the chosen one

[severe drift]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif?ex=68d838f0&is=68d6e770&hm=41a2e0fbf1ab6976923448d59a219cd0fa09eaff09554336a87fe91697e0d1b6&=

[hollow temple]

bruh

[real falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/bad-callouts-rogue-gif-26757787

[red zinc]

3am

The glorping hour

[craggy barn]

ok im back on outlaw for soul hunters

zac any tips

[trim harbor]

Is is an actually play to buy pvp conquest ring and get to to 704

[craggy barn]

@vivid vessel !

[ocean lodge]

class balance be like

https://tenor.com/view/this-is-fine-gif-24177057

[covert kestrel]

Easier to balance classes when they all play like bm and ret right

[ocean lodge]

dumb the game down, how dare you learn

[frank bane]

Class balance be like: Buffed Mages in PvE ✅ , Reworked Shadow✅ , Nerfed rogue in PvP ✅

[ocean lodge]

nerfed outlaw of all things in pvp lol

[frank bane]

"We see Outlaw still has the ability to que, so we are nerfing them."

[restive obsidian]

Blame whaaz for being too good.

[frank bane]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1413242281515024545/image.gif

[fallen mural]

what class did ion main in wow?

[tired rune]

Not rogue that’s for sure

[fallen mural]

I bet you he played rogue in cata. That's why we were gigabuffed with free combo point leggo daggers

[frank bane]

Rsham

[fallen mural]

https://tenor.com/view/chainheal-shaman-edgex-chainhealgod-wowclassic-gif-19205890

[wintry solar]

Shammy has always been the more form>function caster

I won't deny

[royal ermine]

its amazing anybody actually gets their discord accounts hacked

[stiff vector]

finally finished 17 resil and sham in my group tells me outlaw is "really great" rn when I told him thats what I main

I just bit my tongue and was happy we timed the key

[hollow temple]

guys it normal that as outlaw i get literally 0 invs since 3 days straight for hours and hours? It means I have to run my own keys purely?
Speaking of 17s

[wintry solar]

yes

I think you knew this and just wanted to rub salt on the wound >.>

[quaint mauve]

@wintry solar do i spend 400$ on a roblox item or do i put 400$ into cs cases

[wintry solar]

neither wth lol

[quaint mauve]

bro wtf

you have to pick

or on rogue t3

• tcg tabard

[wintry solar]

roblox

[hollow temple]

in S2 it was total opposite had defo way more invs but now its = 0 all the time 🙁

[wintry solar]

because I play roblox and we have that in common

[wintry solar]

they fixed a bug and forgot to tune until S3

but yeahhhh

[covert kestrel]

Boy you better spend that money else where

400 on cosmetics?? In this economy!!!

[dawn talon]

go cases fast

[quaint mauve]

if what i get from the cases is good im good

easy

[covert kestrel]

Spend it on scratchoffs

[dawn talon]

hell nah we got another young person in outlaw chat

u gotta be 30 to type inna class discord twin we aint big enough

[covert kestrel]

He won nephew of the year for #outlaw

[quaint mauve]

i’ve been in rogue chat since i was 15

[quaint mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/happy-cat-silly-cat-happy-cat-smile-gif-11748501437476694103

[dawn talon]

hmm

i think i was here 2021 then mental boomed and deleted all my socials

then came back

so i would've been like 16 17

[wintry solar]

whats your pfp

[quaint mauve]

neck

[wintry solar]

its like some creature with its eyes censored

oh

[dawn talon]

u lowk got one of them 2020 leaguetwt pfps

[quaint mauve]

i play lol

[dawn talon]

hold on let me find my old pfp

i thought that shit was so tuff

i thought this was SO tuff in 2018

[wintry solar]

I mean

aint it kinda?

I feel like ive seen that before

[long barn]

I’ve been using ravenholdt before we had discord and it was just a website with info.

Maybe I think I found it on IRC channel

Fuck I’m old

[wintry solar]

Gah you had discord since 2016

What was that like

[indigo token]

i thought that was a butthole

icl

[wintry solar]

oh youre that other guy

your disc name just clicked

[quaint mauve]

the dweeb

yeah

[wintry solar]

I cant think of the nickname

[quaint mauve]

hyjalno

[wintry solar]

I got by nicknames

as you can see

its not a good idea

[severe drift]

https://tenor.com/view/pepperidge-pepperidge-farm-remembers-remember-gif-15527169458174144495

[wintry solar]

is there no timewalking raid?

[quaint mauve]

@dawn talon @wintry solar i got 220 back from the cases

🥲

[dawn talon]

just means you're up for a dub next time

🫡

[rare shoal]

Is Incorporeal warpclaw good for Outlaw specifically? Seems bad for other melee

[ocean lodge]

Chat equivalent of going from a commodore64 to a 4k oled 5090

[gaunt phoenix]

yea, outlaw tends to like damage procs cause of mega stacking vers

[rare shoal]

Ahhh that makes sense. Thanks!

[long barn]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[elder phoenix]

Sim it

[granite merlin]

So subterfuge windows Is where most our damage comes from yes?

[cinder haven]

[granite merlin]

I think my dmg issue is stemming from not just slamming both vanishes at start of big pulls

I’m using it a lot near the end of packs

When it pops back up

[cinder haven]

It’s a bit weird on trickster

You have a long todo list out of stealth

[granite merlin]

This is what’s killing me

I know the rotation but there is so much going on I feel like ad rush has like 8 seconds left by the time I think about vanishing

[cinder haven]

But you don’t want to sit on 2 vanish charges

For first vanish, just get ks on cd first

Second one you want to get one set of coup out first

[rotund zodiac]

Man the waste cdr

[granite merlin]

Oh wait what is there some interaction I’m missing

Why coup out first

Time to check talent interaction again

[cinder haven]

Coup gives you a lot of flawless form

[rotund zodiac]

Big dps increase

[granite merlin]

Does it matter how many combos I send second coup out on

[cinder haven]

Buffing your subt window

No

[granite merlin]

Well dang it

[cinder haven]

Not first either

[granite merlin]

Seriously!!?!?

Here is where I lose soooooooo much ad rush time

[cinder haven]

You want to avoid SS if coup is available

Since you can’t gain new stacks if you proc unseen blade

Very important

[granite merlin]

Yeah but I’ll waste a pistol shot blade flurry etc trying to build

[quaint mauve]

i got banned from lol

…

[granite merlin]

Like three gcd just for more combos

[cinder haven]

It’s fine to PS or BF

Just no ss

[granite merlin]

It’s good to know I don’t need to worry about four seconds of building to full though

[cinder haven]

But if mobs will die you can probably skip building altogether

In low keys that’s probably better tbh

[granite merlin]

This is like a light going off

I’m in 14s not super low but not high

I’m only getting like 6 million consistent but I know I’m leaving waaaaaaay to much on table

[cinder haven]

Making the todo list shorter is nice yeah

[granite merlin]

Our lock and Hunter and pulling like 8s

[quaint mauve]

bro i deadass

[cinder haven]

The rules say to only vanish after coup

[quaint mauve]

while trialing on souls hunters

rolled like

80% heads

[cinder haven]

But it doesn’t have to be this strict

[quaint mauve]

also don’t ask why im not running trickster

[cinder haven]

Imo you vanish if you can’t force coup in a few ss

[quaint mauve]

it completely didn’t come to me

[granite merlin]

Yeah there are times I am sitting on vanish and ad rush is about to burn off and I’m in meltdown mode

Waiting for coups

[cinder haven]

So if you have the UB weak aura

And it shows no UB

Just vanish next time you are 6+ cp

There’s no good time to vanish

Only less bad times

[granite merlin]

Ok I use LE and that gets tracked I also have been trying to vanish when I get some pistol shot build ups so if I don’t get a reset I can build really fast

To bte again

[cinder haven]

It’s not that you have to have resources saved

You can save some ps stacks sure

Especially 1fth can do this

I like to start using them if I have 4 or more

Or to build for coup

[granite merlin]

Yeah that’s what I have been doing

Slam on 4 I never thought to use to build for coup though ok that’s smaaaat

[errant fractal]

guessing the 26/8 pinned post about macros is fatebound only? 😄

[granite merlin]

I been trying to save blade flurry

But that’s hella awkward too

[cinder haven]

Yeah the macros are fb only

Don’t save bf

[errant fractal]

thank fuck

[cinder haven]

Or well

[errant fractal]

got worried I was about to pick up a dumbsterfire of a spec for m+

[cinder haven]

You don’t use bf if you have UB stacks

[granite merlin]

Uh oh

I have 100% been doing that

[cinder haven]

But we are dumpsterfire…

[granite merlin]

I picked a bad season to fall in love with outlaw hahaha

[errant fractal]

no I know that, but I'm at a point where the only thing new I can do on rogue is learn outlaw 💀

[cinder haven]

Yeah sry

Even I swapped off outlaw this season

Temporarily of course

[granite merlin]

Did you go sub?

Or feral 😄

Seems like a lot of rogues flip to feral sometimes

[cinder haven]

Havoc

[granite merlin]

Oooooo also fun choice

Is it way less tanky?

[cinder haven]

I wanted to have useful damage for once

It’s less tanky vs one shots

Huge self healing tho

[errant fractal]

I see talks of swapping weapons around in m+, is that like a "depending on ur crudgel ilvl" situation or what's going on there?

[cinder haven]

So safe against rot

[granite merlin]

Healer and tank love me in group which is why they don’t mind having me cause I am self contained and healer can focus on our hunter who dies to being tickled

[cinder haven]

On trash, vanish will reset cudgel proc chance

But not on bosses

So we swap to normal off hand on bosses

But tbh I didnt feel the whole swap thing was worth so I just ran normal oh all the time

[cinder haven]

Being unkillable is our only utility I guess

I do miss infinite feint charges

And 20% dr from vers

[wintry solar]

Especially with it drastically changing next expac lol

Potentially*

[cinder haven]

Yeah.. maybe

[wintry solar]

Tob

[cinder haven]

Yes

[wintry solar]

Speculating is more fun than playing rn

[cinder haven]

Yes

[wintry solar]

I don't like that

[void canopy]

new bug on my outlaw
i have all in 16 but not the resi keystone xd

[cinder haven]

When playing means just sitting in lfg for hours yeah

[wintry solar]

I farmed for mounts and had more fun

[cinder haven]

Did you go to the keystone npc?

[wintry solar]

Urormi or something

[granite merlin]

I played outlaw a bit when fatebound was big in m+ that was the most fun I ever had on a class trickster is just painful lol

[wintry solar]

Next to the portal

[cinder haven]

Gotta talk to the one where you lower key at least once

To enable resi

[void canopy]

im in 16 not in 12

[cinder haven]

Did you have resi on earlier key levels?

[wintry solar]

If you've ever accidentally played FB in M+ like I do sometimes, the extra cdr on adr is so clean.

[cinder haven]

Idk

Try talking to keystone guy, if it doesn’t have a chat option about resi it’s probably new fun bug

[granite merlin]

Yeah I can’t figure out why I’m having so much more fun then realize I am seeing coins and no coup hahahahaha

If you want to optimize that resilience keystone bug macro it to killing spree with a cancel aura and trinket

[wintry solar]

Turn off meters and enjoy

[void canopy]

outlaw detected, achievement recjected

[granite merlin]

lol I wish I had screenshotted a guy in my guild saying he wanted to make a weak aura for me that looks like meters and just shows me rainbows and stars and always has my name first no matter what is happening

That was after our first 14 where we got done and I died inside at my overall lol.

[wintry solar]

I'd like a bunch of pepes

Dancing on my screen

[granite merlin]

Ngl that would be fire

I feel this needs to be made

[wintry solar]

Have this while adr is active

[granite merlin]

We need to make a Pepe pack

[wintry solar]

So true

I need to learn to make addons and such

[granite merlin]

I made my first weak aura ever other day it’s a adrush icon all tiny and a blue bar getting smaller from top and a red bar getting smaller from bottom going up. I basically try to keep them even so I know I’m doing well in adrush

I was very excited by it

Make them touch icon at same time

[fleet knot]

wait so is outlaw doing dmg or I'm just bad because i kinda feel like being carried every key that I do, consistently 4 5 % behind everyone, is this a similar exp for you guys ?

[elder phoenix]

bad

jk

outlaw is bad

Kappa

If you want to do actual dps go sub

outlaw is alright

assassination is reaally good in big AOE pull

[wintry solar]

Sounds about right

[elder phoenix]

kinda funny

someone said assassination was the best M+ spec

turns out its Sub

[fleet knot]

idk, when I look at the top steamers they are always with the same dmg as the other 2 dps in the group and if I look at the dmg rankings in u gg it looks like outlaw has the competetive dmg

[elder phoenix]

Thats because u GG takes into account pre made groups

that Might make outlaw better

but if you're with um lets say an arcane mage and a hunter

you're shit outta luck

[wintry solar]

They're playing with comps that boost them

[elder phoenix]

you gonna be doing 10 mil in AOE while they do 20 mil +

[fleet knot]

well I do form groups around that monk tank warr dps lets say I do play with a druid but still ...

[wintry solar]

Your gameplay could need improvement anyway but regardless, outlaw just isn't all that great atm

[fleet knot]

is there a place where you can analyze lets say a two logs of a dungeon

[elder phoenix]

wcl

[wintry solar]

The !log command and then someone will look at it when they get time. KiR logs suck to look at but I'm sure someone will help.

[errant fractal]

anyone got like a WA that tracks how many targets are within BF range? I'm rly used to having one for fan of knives

[granite merlin]

Hahahaha my group

Literally

[torpid fiber]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter

[torpid fiber]

wait wtf is there not one in there

????

I have one

but I'm not at my pc rn

[errant fractal]

there's no rush, but I'd appreciate if you could share whenever you get to it 😄

[cinder haven]

There’s one in the #subtlety wa command, but not 100% sure the range is correct for BF

[errant fractal]

if you mean the fan of knives one yeah it doesn't match BF (at least on my pc lol)

[mighty pivot]

hello bm hunter rerollers

where outlaw tuning

[wintry solar]

Every 2 weeks btw

Nighty night Ninja

Wordle in 5 btw

[mighty pivot]

typical guy propaganda

[mighty pivot]

I got it on the last guess what a shitty word

[cinder haven]

Idk what range BF is rn tbh

It should reasonably have bigger range than for example fan of knives and shuriken storm since we have to be in melee range of a mob to use the flurry effect

Idk if it is tho

[quaint mauve]

my dad convinced my mom that celsius were sparkling water

she just drank one at 2 am

[mighty pivot]

it's 8y

[cinder haven]

So less than ftk and shuriken storm because?

Just outlaw things

[mighty pivot]

well

it "makes sense" in that it's not a thrown attack

[wintry solar]

I guess because the idea is youre spinning a melee weapon as opposed to throwing weapons

[mighty pivot]

agreeing with popo

[wintry solar]

I'm a decent fellow to agree with

[cinder haven]

Every other melee aoe skill in the game is probably also at least 10yds

[mighty pivot]

I don't find BF's radius an issue

[wintry solar]

Hmmmm

Me either

[muted crest]

back than we had the best melee range 😢

[bright lodge]

Cleaves are not. Sub have less cleave radius

[cinder haven]

Yeah we had the best range and now we have the worst

[wintry solar]

Half your rotation has a 30 yard range

[cinder haven]

We had the best prio while still doing aoe, now the worst

[wintry solar]

That counts for something

[cinder haven]

They just took our stuff and replaced it with nothing

But I’m not salty

[mighty pivot]

they just fucked up the tuning

[wintry solar]

Nah

They fucked up Outlaw

In general

#MOGA

Down with UHUH

[mighty pivot]

you cannot expect drastic changes right before the new expansion

but they can tune it better until then

[wintry solar]

I'm not

I'm expecting them in alpha

[bright lodge]

We we the first ranged melee before devs decided to make a new DH spec

[cinder haven]

I don’t expect anything

Just perplexed by past choices

[mighty pivot]

it takes 5 minutes to change the aura %

[cinder haven]

Press cloak and stay

[mighty pivot]

in part hero talent tier bonuses are to blame, since trickster's works way better for sub

and FB was already bad so even with the great bonuses it's not enough

[cinder haven]

FB negative prio is funny

[wintry solar]

Trickster would be fine if we didn't have to vanish every waking moment of our shit sucking miserable existence

[solid kelp]

I wonder if blizz can do hero talent specific aura buffs

[mighty pivot]

negative prio is demonic design in a world where other specs get literal free funnel

[bright lodge]

I think hero trees were designed to fit 1 spec it seems. Thematically at least

[cinder haven]

Trickster would be helped a lot if we could keep building EB when coup is available

[mighty pivot]

rogue ones maybe

[cinder haven]

Or if coup was consumed crackshot dispatch but would do full damage

Doesn’t fix damage profile tho

[bright lodge]

Darkranger beastmaster sounds wrong also

[cinder haven]

Trickster gameplay loop is fun though

[quaint mauve]

and hit 3 times

[cinder haven]

Yes

KS change murdered our already bad damage profile

Full pad spec now

[magic shuttle]

Pad is good

[bright lodge]

Pad with cap is not

[magic shuttle]

Gotta uncap the pad

[mighty pivot]

cdg is kinda weirdly implemented too imo with the third hit being 0,9s after the first yet your gcd is 0,8s so they have to add the increased gcd

[cinder haven]

Idk if it would be an issue if it was auto consumed but crackshot

Maybe the ruthlessness cp would arrive too late

It’s probably too hard to code

Because crackshot dispatch doesn’t give cdr

And we would ofc want coup to give cdr

[mighty pivot]

and all these multiproc attacks are annoying, SS/Ambush, FtH pistol shots, double UB, and cdg. Some give you benefits immediately, some don't. Some are affected by lag, some aren't.

[cinder haven]

Maybe coup could replace bte instead of dispatch

[bright lodge]

Or just let us stack more escalating blade stacks

[mighty pivot]

cdg being a 3 hit attack causes issues for sub as well with its shadowcraft refunds

[cinder haven]

If it was bte instead you also get fun interaction with ace

[mighty pivot]

or that you can by mistake CB the last hit of it instead of your next cast

[bright lodge]

Is that a thing?

[mighty pivot]

you'd think that if you press a button and then CB after, it would not affect your previous cast

[cinder haven]

I feel like all the stuff lately trying to empower dispatch is a bit tone deaf

We don’t want to press dispatch

[bright lodge]

Damn, I wasted a lot of CB on last CDG hit and was always wondering if CGD hits could consume CB

[cinder haven]

Same with SS

We don’t want to press SS either

So empowering those abilities makes priorities weird

[mighty pivot]

even more for trickster

[bright lodge]

Don’t know about that. CDG animation is cool

[cinder haven]

Empowering last resort buttons doesn’t feel good imo

[golden lark]

Do we not? Its pressed frequently to use unseen blade?

[mighty pivot]

yes but you want to not press it when you have 4 stacks EB

being optimal to send a finisher at 2 combo points is not good design imo

[bright lodge]

And also. Why KS have 2m cd? Sub’s SecTech is also affected by cdr

[mighty pivot]

the specs play very differently tbh so their cds being similar or not is irrelevant

[bright lodge]

Yes but old KS cd was shorter

[cinder haven]

Because KS is a long ass channel

[mighty pivot]

it was so outlaw did lose some DS UB charges

[cinder haven]

The rotation did feel a bit cramped with long ks channel on short cd

[mighty pivot]

it still does tbh

[cinder haven]

Better solution would ofc be to make ks instant

Or pause adr

The amount of complicated rules we can make up to get gains with the current hero trees is a bit excessive

[bright lodge]

Ninjarobot, you are wise

[cinder haven]

Because our natural procs are competing with UB

And our natural loop of vanish adr handling competes with ks and coup

[mighty pivot]

this is the main issue

with new KS and 4p now it's even worse

[cinder haven]

Yeah, hopefully some of this is addressed in rework

[mighty pivot]

s2 gameplay loop was way smoother despite the more frequent KS

I just hope they won't make our 4p a new hero talent

or that they will address the issues it created

(for sub too, sub also changes builders sometimes to not proc UB between cdg casts)

[cinder haven]

If I compare to souls on AR havoc

They can just store infinite souls more or less

Not sure I see any real issues with letting us stack EB to the moon

Yeah you can make a giga vanish window

So what?

[mighty pivot]

it creates issues for sub

[cinder haven]

True

Sub is already extremely bursty

[mighty pivot]

a way to make it not create such issues is making the second cdg a different buff and reset your EB after the first

so you can start stacking again

[cinder haven]

But if bte consumed coup instead?

You’d basically be guaranteed ace proc so second coup wouldn’t feel bad

[mighty pivot]

but that only fixes the double casts, not wanting to avoid building while at 4 EB

[cinder haven]

That could be fixed by giving a buff that allows coup after reaching 4 EB

[mighty pivot]

true

and then reapply the buff after the first cast for the 4p bonus, or just make it give you 2 stacks - even easier and more clear

[cinder haven]

Yeah

And tune the duration of the buff so it’s not an issue for sub

Maybe it’s not an issue regardless

As long as number of stacks of that buff is capped

[mighty pivot]

UB needs to be looked at as well (maybe straight up delete Thousand Cuts)

[cinder haven]

Just make it a spell overlay

Stop it with the hidden procs bs

[mighty pivot]

I would prefer it if UB was 10s duration 8-10s cd and there were no resets other than DS

[cinder haven]

I assume that the design goal was to have us not think about UB

[mighty pivot]

they failed that by requiring fazed on the target though

[torpid fiber]

I assume so as well, but also it just doesn't ever play like that at all

[cinder haven]

Among other things yeah

[mighty pivot]

like 3-4 talents require fazed or they do nothing or just half their things

[cinder haven]

You could even say that they gloriously fell short of that design goal

[mighty pivot]

so if by default you had 100% uptime on fazed as long as you stayed on the target it would achieve the same without any mental overload

it's not like UB is some deep or fun mechanic to play around

[torpid fiber]

Fazed is so dumb

[mighty pivot]

or just make fazed a buff on the player

but that still has issues with spells requiring it

[cinder haven]

That type of debuff interaction sucks in general

[mighty pivot]

being at 4 EB and having no fazed on target and no UB charges is legit despair

[cinder haven]

Yeah what do you even do?

[torpid fiber]

legit cry

[cinder haven]

SS and waste an EB probably, if you can

[torpid fiber]

Press feint ig

[cinder haven]

Using coup without fazed is probably very bad

But why why why require fazed to give FF from coup?

What’s the point?

[mighty pivot]

you can say the same about the other 3 talents requiring fazed too

[cinder haven]

Again probably design goal, but this time the goal was that there should be a lot of interaction between talents in hero trees

Interesting and distinct play styles or something

[mighty pivot]

trickster being this clown fiesta yet the better designed rogue hero tree is somewhat funny

[cinder haven]

I do like the cd syncing of FB a bit

It’s less ass now that we can force lucky coin too

[mighty pivot]

ok but that's a bug too

[cinder haven]

Partially

Syncing gs to vanish isn’t

[mighty pivot]

that one is fine yes

[cinder haven]

But the negative prio kills it

[cinder haven]

Also riddled with bugs obviously

[mighty pivot]

naturally

[cinder haven]

I kinda didn’t like FB in keys for an odd reason

You have to be in melee range to vanish

[mighty pivot]

I did 2 FB keys and they felt dog but I think that was before the align vanish with gs thing

[cinder haven]

I don’t think I realised how much I abuse vanish to play at range

[mighty pivot]

I'd rather they delete FB's current design and start anew but that's just me being delusional

it's too passive, too skewed on coin balance, too specific with target count

Deal Fate seems the only positive thing on it

[cinder haven]

For trickster at least we have ideas on how to salvage it

Idk how to save FB

[mighty pivot]

we have ideas but other people are the ones making the decisions

we will soon know what they've been cooking

[cinder haven]

Yeah maybe

Can’t be sure that outlaw rework will be in first alpha

Can’t be 100% sure of a rework in general i guess

[mighty pivot]

it will at least need significant changes to fit the narrative of being playable without WAs

or at least way more significant than what changed during TWW

[errant fractal]

UB o_O

[cinder haven]

Or they just remove a bunch of APIs

So you can’t make these WAs

Wouldnt surprise me a whole lot

[errant fractal]

I mean there's many hero specs that need to be straight up removed and just back to the drawing board make something new, fatebound and colossus being top of my personal list

[cinder haven]

It’s blizzard we are talking about though

[errant fractal]

But some classes are straight up unplayable without WAs, if they remove WAs without unfucking the design of some of these specs those specs will simply disappear in higher half of the play

[cinder haven]

Have they ever done anything that makes you think they would backtrack like that?

[errant fractal]

One can hope?