outlaw

[random stirrup]

probably the same time streets timer got changed

[vivid vessel]

ye good question right

[random stirrup]

that IS the assa channel cuh

[mighty pivot]

favouritism?

[vivid vessel]

this ring price

is going down

very fast

hehehe

[red zinc]

Oh nvm zac

[vivid vessel]

its mine

[red zinc]

They knew insta

[fathom bramble]

simple oversight

[vivid vessel]

soon

[red zinc]

Just dont care

[vivid vessel]

ye prolly

[fathom bramble]

how much of a nerf even is it?

[red zinc]

idk how impactful that even is but if outlaw gets a bug fix that nerfs the class we crash out

[fathom bramble]

I have only seen like 2 sin rogues in keys and they don't exactly have a ton of spatter damage

[vivid vessel]

idk

im just happy

everytime assa get nerfed

call me a hater

[edgy phoenix]

SAME

[red zinc]

nerf ret next

[fathom bramble]

I can respect that

[vivid vessel]

fr

[fathom bramble]

even if it's like sub 2% nerf

[hasty warren]

how much was the aura buff ? 3% ?

[fathom bramble]

or whatever

[vivid vessel]

they have like

[edgy phoenix]

ret protest working

[vivid vessel]

wiat let me check

[strong halo]

i dont see assas

[vivid vessel]

cause they had a lot of aura bfuf

on their ass

[mighty pivot]

they had like 12% aura or something

[light kernel]

zac just turn off discord channel and we gettin buffed

[fathom bramble]

20%

[strong halo]

@vivid vessel where did u see assas nerf?

[vivid vessel]

bro just

[red zinc]

zac turn off your youtube and twitch channel so we get buffed (and never bring it back)

[vivid vessel]

its whatever

forget about it

xd

[hasty warren]

kek

[pale tulip]

How is outlaw in keys nowdays?

[hasty warren]

all for this

[vivid vessel]

bad

its like s1

[vague cape]

good xd

[mighty pivot]

zac play GSW 45% haste until they buff outlaw

[vivid vessel]

dont listen to mo

he doesnt know people dont have 4p yet

we are still in s2

[vague cape]

if someone asks is it good in keys

they mean for weeklies and shit man

[hasty warren]

i have 0 tier piece

[vivid vessel]

oh uh guys

[strong halo]

bruv where are these assas nerfs

im so confused

[vivid vessel]

any spec can do any key level

it doesnt matter

uh uh

guys

[vague cape]

🙂

[vivid vessel]

all specs are good

play whatever you want

[hasty warren]

aug can ?

[light kernel]

would ppl ask if just for weeklies ? xd

[pale tulip]

Yea but is outlaw gonna get shit on regularly by even geared other classes

[edgy phoenix]

nobody wants to play aug anyway

[vivid vessel]

doesnt even matter lol

when people will see

assa doing twice outalw damge in hgih keys

[red zinc]

aug has legit turned into a lizzard benchmark tool btw

[vivid vessel]

you aint getting invited

[vague cape]

real talk though @pale tulip spec has significant weakness in being hard target capped, if you're pushing high keys and pulling v big you can lose to tank

[vivid vessel]

stop acting

like you can play anything you want

in this game

when its not true

[red zinc]

if a class is below aug on logs it gets buffed the next week

Check the data

Its real

[random stirrup]

was like 15-16% in my keys. idk how the math works exactly but assuming it was making a 1.2 multiplier become 1.44, was like a 2.5-3% nerf

[pale tulip]

Ok that's what I wanted to know cos the target cap keeps me from playing, so you gotta play assa

[vague cape]

you can play OL np man

[vivid vessel]

ye np man

[hasty warren]

so true xd

[vivid vessel]

you can play any spec you want

just dont look at details

and it will be alright

[red zinc]

Yo honestly

[vague cape]

bro stop trying to scare him off, not everyone will do 6x pack pulls at the start of their key zac

[hasty warren]

@vivid vessel go sleep man ure tired

[vivid vessel]

brotherman

[red zinc]

Nobody plays aug in raid so lets just all collectively get good at aug so outlaw ends up under it

And it gets buffed

[vivid vessel]

im not even talking about uncapped packs

[red zinc]

Thoughts?

[vivid vessel]

you are acting like outlaw

will win

at any target cap

stop lying to people

[vague cape]

it won't win

it just won't brick ur key

[vivid vessel]

nice

[vague cape]

xd

[hasty warren]

btw u have hot weather tomorow ?

[fathom bramble]

I mean to be fair there is no spec in the game that will brick ur key

[vague cape]

qin, just go do some keys on all rogue specs and play the one you find most fun / do best on gl

[vivid vessel]

outlaw in s3 is like outlaw in s1

[fathom bramble]

unless you roll up with just a complete meme build

[pale tulip]

So outlaw is equivalent to a afk buyer, got it

[red zinc]

low rio vengeance dh

[vague cape]

id be willing to bet money a 4x priest comp would brick ur key

[cinder relic]

How is it possible that outlaw is bad on all target counts, but seems to be performing well on the aoe raid fights

Really makes you think

[vivid vessel]

i mean idk

raid isnt m+

maybe

thats prolly it actually

nice detective work

im gald

we have very smart people

[pale tulip]

3 target consistent aoe = m+?

[vivid vessel]

in this discord

[fathom bramble]

I'm not convinced that's true, but overall comp and one specific spec are not the same thing anyway

[hasty warren]

pc broken

[pale tulip]

[cinder relic]

Forgeweaver and Soulbinder perma 3 target cleave?

[pale pivot]

Where i can find some info about cap (crit, vers)? no haste

[strong halo]

outlaw isnt bad, but assas is so much better that high keys makes us useless tbh

[hasty warren]

owo

[strong halo]

why would u take outlaw when assas exiss

[cinder relic]

Assa is better, yes

[fathom bramble]

the only cap that really has a meaningful impact on your gearing strategy is the haste cap

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[cinder relic]

In raid, both outlaw and sin are good

[vague cape]

idk, having 2 priests and a demo lock in my comp deffo bricked some pulls due to lack of stops

[cinder relic]

In keys, sin is just better atm

Spec is very broken in keys

[vague cape]

id be amazed if people could make 4x priest work

[junior coral]

why ios duskthread lining not coming up as an option for crafting when i have one in my bag?

[vivid vessel]

holy fuck

thats crazy

[red zinc]

“why would you take” is irrelevant when some people just want to play something thats fun tbh

like

[cinder relic]

Literally

[red zinc]

its a valid argument sometimes but

Shouldnt be the first thought

[fathom bramble]

pick the right key with the right route and I bet it's fine

[red zinc]

for every joe that comes in here asking something

[fathom bramble]

or a prot paladin to cover all interrupts

[vivid vessel]

ok but

when joe ask

[vague cape]

had bear sadly, me and him had to work REALLY hard, never pressed kidney so much in my life

[vivid vessel]

abotu pwoer level

why would you asnwer the guy

with

playu wahts fun

thats not what joe

is aksing about

joe is asking abotu detai

ls

[cinder relic]

R u okay

[worthy thunder]

!log

[vivid vessel]

im fine

[fathom bramble]

give bear solar beam tbh

[vivid vessel]

are you

[hasty warren]

zac is losing it

[vivid vessel]

im not haha

[cinder relic]

[red zinc]

let bear eat a mob temporarily for a 10s surpress

[edgy phoenix]

zac is that new

[pale pivot]

So haste has not cap at 10% if i play HO? I though that we have cap at 25%

[vivid vessel]

ye

[cinder relic]

Bro is literally exploding all over the keyboard

[vague cape]

bro i was so concerned I dm'd him

[vivid vessel]

its new

[edgy phoenix]

can u link

[vivid vessel]

uh

no im fine ?

idk

do i come of as not fine

im actually chilling rn

[vague cape]

you seem more agitated than usual

[vivid vessel]

really

[quaint wharf]

nah this is normal behavior for u tbh

[vague cape]

maybe cus sin dodged nerf bat

[quaint wharf]

honestly

[vivid vessel]

idk its 2am i guess

[red zinc]

He did keys with zeross

[quaint wharf]

pretty tame

[red zinc]

Rubbed off

[vivid vessel]

nah i dont even care haha

like legit

[vague cape]

ngl I expected sin nerfs

like actual sin nerfs

both raid and m+

[red zinc]

u said haha

seething

[cinder relic]

No spec needs nerfs in raid, other than aff lol

I was expecting a CT nerf tho

Probs in the following weeks

[vivid vessel]

eh

i think

they need to nuke

deathstalker

funnel

or smth

the spec cant be allowed to do infintie aoe and all of that to translsate into funnel for free

??

thats crazy

[light kernel]

demo is also pumping ppl dont know it yet

[vague cape]

sin not simming bottom was a bit of a red flag for me that it might be overtuned for raid

[fathom bramble]

funnel is just fundamentally incredibly overpowered in this game and needs real downsides whenever your spec is doing it

[cinder relic]

How many times do I need to tell you guys to stop relying on sims

[red zinc]

Anyone that paid any attention to ptr knows

[cinder relic]

To tell you what spec is good

[fathom bramble]

like how old sub didn't do any aoe while funneling

[cinder relic]

It's literally been 10 years in a row

You don't use "ST patchwork sims" to tell you whats playable

[vague cape]

obviously its not the only thing I go off man

[cinder relic]

Its literally, completely worthless

there is 0 reason to use it, at all straight up

It tells you nothing

[vivid vessel]

its a good metric to know how much outlaw sucks or not tho

[cinder relic]

the point of a sim is how to upgrade your charcter

It tells you nothing useful across specs

especially not classes

[vivid vessel]

eh

[vague cape]

this fight does feature a few patchwerk situations

[vivid vessel]

nice propaganda

but you wont get me

[vague cape]

but fair

[red zinc]

saw someone in ret discord say that they were glad they had their writer as class representative instead of guy because guy “crashes out too much”

[vague cape]

I do think actual performance metrics are better

[fathom bramble]

it tells you nothing by itself, but when you are aware of the downsides/upsides of multiple specs and how they might interact with real combat it can be used as a piece of supporting evidence for what is going on

[red zinc]

idk where that comes from but

[vivid vessel]

frfr

[red zinc]

at least guy hasnt closed the discord

[red zinc]

[vague cape]

funniest thing I saw about guy

recently

[vivid vessel]

pre 4p pre gear logs

[torpid fiber]

I had someone on reddit say that guy "wishes he could ban everyone he disagrees with"

[vivid vessel]

also i see assa doing same st as outlaw

[cinder relic]

I never ban anybody

[vivid vessel]

which means

[cinder relic]

I barely mute anybody

[vivid vessel]

outlaw is dogshit

[red zinc]

Guy really hated for the wrong reasons

[cinder relic]

exactly

[torpid fiber]

Yeah but clearly you wish you could

[cinder relic]

Theres plenty of valid reasons to hate me

[red zinc]

gotta start hating for the right reasons

[torpid fiber]

Smh

[red zinc]

[cinder relic]

Literally

[red zinc]

Like that lanky ass finger

[hasty warren]

i do like u guy

[vague cape]

xd

[vivid vessel]

how do you guys do timewalking dungeons

[hasty warren]

loved ur streams in sl

[quaint wharf]

wheres the solo shoutout smh

[vague cape]

ye rip, solo carrying silently

[red zinc]

solo is underground

[hasty warren]

in pain

[red zinc]

he up next

[vivid vessel]

do you queue a random timewlaking dungeon ?

is that how it works

[quaint wharf]

ye

[hollow harness]

Hey guys, when do I change set items? Is the old 4set better then the new 2set as outlaw?

[quaint wharf]

thats how it works

[vague cape]

koji and a lot of the back end tcs too

[hasty warren]

lfg

[vivid vessel]

like i do this or

[hasty warren]

lfd

[vivid vessel]

is there some groups

i can apply to

[red zinc]

lets fuckin go

[hasty warren]

y

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

ah ok

thats boring af

[torpid fiber]

Yeah I just queue lfd

[red zinc]

looking for dihh

[glass mortar]

Cuh

[quaint mauve]

i did raid

[quaint wharf]

also

bro

[quaint mauve]

for my weekly

[glass mortar]

Oh right u did the skip

[torpid fiber]

Timewalking is miserable, find some good music

[hasty warren]

but u can drop a tier piece

[glass mortar]

The bosses in raid count for the weekly btw

[hasty warren]

if lucky

[quaint wharf]

theres no fucking way they hotfixed the cloak thing from tw raid

[hollow harness]

Hey guys, when do I change set items? Is the old 4set better then the new 2set as outlaw?

[vivid vessel]

should have i not done the skip ?

is it faster to just do the raid

[glass mortar]

Coulda done it all at once

[quaint wharf]

after i get a cloak the day before

[vivid vessel]

fuck

[quaint mauve]

yeah

[vivid vessel]

do i go back

[glass mortar]

U wouldn't need to do dungeons

[fathom bramble]

just do the skip 2 more times

[glass mortar]

If u didn't skip

[vivid vessel]

fuuuk

[red zinc]

pins

[quaint mauve]

each boss is like 3 minutes

[hasty warren]

no

[vivid vessel]

why didnt anyone tell me

[hasty warren]

ulduar is turbo long

[glass mortar]

It's faster if ur gunna do the raid imo but it's too late now

[fathom bramble]

fresh group might get stuck in flame leviathan hell

not worth

[hasty warren]

expectialy first bosses

[quaint wharf]

its prob better to do the skip then 3 dungeons anyways ye

[worthy thunder]

If anyone could help with a log review that would be great. Trying to find out where to improve.

[cinder relic]

I would probably agree that the entire package of aoe for sin is a bit too good atm, but idk, Sin has been shit in keys ofr awhile now, I think it's fine for it to be good for awhile

It's also been shit in raid for awhile, I wouldn't count last tier as a sin tier personally

This is the first tier in awhile where I'd straight up say rogue is S tier

I am stunned by the lack of ppl hyping up rogue in its current state

and it's not like Outlaw looks bad either

[vague cape]

rogue is raid is posed to crank, good fight timers and dmg amps

[vivid vessel]

sin has been good in keys since it got deathstalker

tbh

the best rogue spec at least

[red zinc]

That dimensius thing is just cringe though

Like

[vivid vessel]

and meta or half meta every season in tww

[vague cape]

hey zac, trade trickster for deathstalker?

[fathom bramble]

if a fight is easy it doesn't matter how good outlaw is on it

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[fathom bramble]

like if 70% of prog time is on the last 2

[hasty warren]

sin was good during df also

[red zinc]

Idk how much the damage amp matters on mythic

[vivid vessel]

ds outlaw would go crazy

[fathom bramble]

and outlaw is bad(hypothetically) on both of them

[red zinc]

But assa cant utilize it

[fathom bramble]

then outlaw is bad

[vivid vessel]

but the gameplay is so shit

[vague cape]

you get cracked funnel but vanish windows gonna give you aids if you lowroll ace / dont have bf or ar

[fathom bramble]

the last 2 existing I think is making people reasonably discount how good outlaw might be on bosses that have a good shot of just not mattering

[cinder relic]

I think outlaw would be good on nexus king

[fathom bramble]

but since rwf is infinite cowardice we haven't even seen any real bosses yet

[vivid vessel]

ye its prolly alright

[red zinc]

Surely they start playing sunday

[vivid vessel]

felt fine

[red zinc]

[cinder relic]

If the bar for being good on prog is "Whats good on last 2" then yeah outlaw sucks, mainly cuz how bad it is on Dimensius

but I dont think these mid bosses are going to be free

[vague cape]

one of these tiers I need to outright commit to OL one trick on prog instead of farm and see how bad it actually is

[desert tendon]

Guy can you lock this channel to zac and zeross until double digit buffs also?

[pale pivot]

!haste

[ornate heath]

A properly geared Outlaw's stat volume will look like Vers > Haste* > Crit > Mastery.

*But Haste has a **requirement ** because Adrenaline Rush scales your GCD based on haste, up to 25%.

The KIR build wants ~19% haste from rating, so it becomes 25% after Alacrity. 18% or 20% is close enough and not a problem. Don't play KIR with lower than 18% haste.

The HO build gets Take 'em by Surprise, so its haste requirement is technically ~9%., but it continues to want haste just for energy. You will likely optimize towards 14-18% haste, not a strict number, just sim.

You need to use Raidbots Top Gear to determine what haste pieces to use. You can also get ~4.2% haste from a flask. This can be equal or better than Vers flask if you need it for either build.

[red zinc]

Fractilus either meme or big wall (no pun intended)

[vivid vessel]

i think its mostly that you wont have weapon for these bosses

for outlaw

so idk

its hard

[fathom bramble]

I mean I think it's pretty reasonable to say that to be good in prog you must be good on most of the prog time spent

[vivid vessel]

what you gonna do when you have a 710 outlaw weapon vs a 723 dagger

[fathom bramble]

not that outlaw won't fall into that category

[cinder relic]

I mean thats always the issue in the context of swapping, but somebody like loktark is just going to craft a sword and hes going to do well, same for @near rock

[fathom bramble]

we can't know that yet one way or the other

[cinder relic]

Neithert of these ppl are going to craft daggers, and be liabilities on any fight (except dimensius)

[quaint mauve]

idk group i got into cleared full in like 40 minutes

[hasty warren]

ure also awake ?

[vague cape]

only time I prog'd as OL was fyrakk and the RL banned me from playing it after seeing sub dmg to shield

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

peak fucking idiot hours

[icy cedar]

please god let everyone get their gear so i can go back to +12s again, i absolutely despise the weekly affix with the balls. I feel like AoE Blind doesn't work half the time even when i've targeting a mob dead center of all the balls

[vague cape]

did same dmg as sin with pi

[desert tendon]

why shouldnt i be awake?

[red zinc]

we should be sleepin together rn

[cinder relic]

Thats very fair, I consider usually the bosses that take over 50 pulls to count

And yeah, you do spend more time ont he much harder bosses but idk

[fathom bramble]

blind is hilariously unreliable for no reason, and also simply fails to cleave if you cast it on a ball directly

[cinder relic]

I think being able to get thru all the bosses does in fact matter

[hasty warren]

it's 2 in the morning

[cinder relic]

Like in nerubar, brood twister, kyveza, silken court, and queen wre all important bosses to prog

[olive bramble]

I just tell the group that I don't have anything for the balls lol

[light kernel]

Blind needs rework

[cinder relic]

even if queen was a 350+ pull boss

kwim?

[hoary mountain]

For the TW raid bosses, can you rekill bosses you already killed for the main TW quest?

[quaint mauve]

yeah u can only hit an actual mob for it to work

[red zinc]

Not really

[quaint mauve]

it’s so dumb

[red zinc]

The ball affix interaction needs changing

Blind is cool

[fathom bramble]

yeah they all matter for sure

it's more like bosses that don't matter at all should have no bearing on your idea of how good a spec is

like us being good on vexie or stix(mostly padding)

made virtually no difference in overall prog

[cinder relic]

Well I mean, stix was a fucking hard boss

[light kernel]

Ita cool just make it aoe circle

[cinder relic]

My perspective is also warped cuz we do all of these bosses usually pre nerf

or after 1 nerf

[vague cape]

tbh I think OL was actually best spec on stix

[cinder relic]

Like stix was a 40? pull boss on week 1

I forget if we killed it week 1 or 2

where u needed 10 boomkins or the fight was impossible

[vague cape]

best bomb damage consistently without griefing ur overall like sub would have to

[fathom bramble]

I think we killed it week 2

[vivid vessel]

ok but guy

[fathom bramble]

and we were decent for bomb damage and such

[vivid vessel]

how many of these bosses

you did as outlaw

[fathom bramble]

but damage to adds almost never directly held us back so idk

[normal forge]

!up

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1403486905915408524/Dark_Mode.jpg

[fathom bramble]

outlaw was certainly the best rogue spec on that fight

but consider that a lot of guilds simply sat their rogue on that fight instead of bringing any at all

[vivid vessel]

ye

wish i could play it

but no weapon

[vague cape]

coulda made an argument for OL on sprocket too

[covert kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/benjammins-rules-for-thee-rules-for-me-rules-for-thee-but-not-for-me-rules-for-me-but-not-for-thee-gif-14621690042873855881

[fathom bramble]

sprocket was fine until you got put in far bomb jail

and lost all your plates

it also forced a frustrating build shift since every other boss was trickster

[hasty warren]

sprocket was fun boss

[vague cape]

im confident grapple could make bomb jail like 3-5 globals at worst

[cinder relic]

Last tier? 0. I've said 100 times I barely played it in raid that tier because Killing spree was a full on non starter for me.

[fathom bramble]

maybe, but you would be a fool to go for the blitzing across the room at lightspeed attempt at it

[cinder relic]

I think the crafting system also does hurt specs like Outlaw, feral, etc

[fathom bramble]

I think there's so much risk involved with doing that maneuvre that you probably simply should take the damage loss

[vague cape]

we're fools for playing this spec to begin with brother

[cinder relic]

I'm expecting the crafting system to get some sort of overhaul next expac

[hasty warren]

u can once and then get bench

[quaint wharf]

wrong

outlaw is fun

[cinder relic]

I'm also expecting Outlaw to get an overhaul in midnight

[vague cape]

hard agree, most fun rogue spec

[quaint mauve]

i played sin for one key

and i just felt

slow

so slow

[fathom bramble]

there is a version of an overhaul that I fear so much that I dare not speak it

[vague cape]

speak your fears Lok

[fathom bramble]

1 simple talent

[vague cape]

what could they even do

[fathom bramble]

that could ruin outlaw

[hasty warren]

i feel same for all other dps spec

[fathom bramble]

instantly

[vivid vessel]

adr is a 2 min cd not reduced by cdr

[hasty warren]

restless balde ?

[quaint mauve]

this could mean a lot… if they remove crackshot i wouldn’t like that

[vague cape]

it would be UHUH

that kills it

[lone crow]

nah its restless

outlaw worked fine before without uhuh

[vague cape]

they cant get rid of restless

restless IS outlaw

[lone crow]

well ye

thats the point

lol

[vague cape]

without restless we're glorified fury

[lone crow]

exactly

[hasty warren]

sad pirates

[vague cape]

does fury still have cdr?

on their cd

NJOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

DELKETE TRHGIS

DELKETY

[hasty warren]

with anger management

[vague cape]

DELTE

DELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTEDELTE

[quaint wharf]

you putting the spoiler on this is hilarious

[vivid vessel]

[quaint mauve]

EWWW HAVOC
DH TREATMENT

[cinder relic]

I get the joke and the fear, but this literally wouldn't work with the spec

[vague cape]

this is so fucking cursed

[hasty warren]

lol

[vague cape]

i never even considered it but holy fucking shit

[cinder relic]

I dislike it, but it works on shit like WW, Ret, and Havoc for a handful of reasons that wouldn't work on any rogue spec

[fathom bramble]

I mean I would argue it ruined ret

but who am I to judge now that I simply don't play the spec anymore

[loud garden]

remove crackshot and let us play ho with kir xdd

[cinder relic]

I don't like it on ret either but it does "work"

For outlaw it just wouldnt work, because of how combo points work

its not like u have a handful of buttons to press

Like blade, judge, wake, hammer

[vague cape]

they could do away with cps and operate the spec as a number of spells that unlock other spells, a flowchat of cds or spells triggered by autos that then proc other spells when used

would be wierd af though

[mighty pivot]

it will leave GCDs open for the new empowered version of SnD

[hasty warren]

is was so cringe in sl when we had cp proc on aa while playing kyrian

[quaint wharf]

more than anything id like it if they made outlaw not rely on uptime so much

anything that ruins ur adr is just so cursed

[hasty warren]

outlaw core is gold

restless, adr

[vague cape]

id imagine it would function a bit like frost dk atm with killing machine stacking to 2 and changing prio based on that, frost strike stacks (or frostbane) and rime

[hasty warren]

hook

rtb

[fathom bramble]

it's very telling how little this core has really changed in the last 10 years

some extra stuff comes and goes, but the core 5 things are basically the same still

[hasty warren]

y but why change it

[quaint wharf]

i enjoy the core alot

but i havent been playing for 10 years so

[fathom bramble]

I more meant that it IS gold and they shouldn't change it

[hasty warren]

this spec feels unique

[vague cape]

they don't need to change the core, they need to manage the implications of its mechanics.

[hasty warren]

based

[quaint wharf]

yeah agreed

[fathom bramble]

extra stuff to manage the weaknesses that our core inherently brings have been asked for for a very long time

mostly restless blades/true bearing problems

[hasty warren]

lot of ppl wants bfa outlaw back

[vague cape]

true bearing is a gem and a curse at the same time

it feels SO GOOD

[fathom bramble]

2 charges of AR would go so far

[hasty warren]

but imo it's not the gameplay I want

[fathom bramble]

and always has been a good fix

[vague cape]

but bricks the spec's potential so hard

[hasty warren]

y

2 charges vanish is best idea of tww

[cinder relic]

2 vanish was great

Better than dance by a lot

I've really come to love the rogue class trees

[light kernel]

Im miss db

[hasty warren]

dance is aid

[cinder relic]

Playing all 3 specs

[fathom bramble]

I'm starting to think outlaw should just have 2 charges on like everything

[quaint mauve]

bro floodgate is my favorite dungeon

[hasty warren]

I hate sublaw

[quaint mauve]

my uptime is so good

[cinder relic]

Nutty capstone, "GS, AR, Vanish, BTE, all get an additional charge"

[light kernel]

2 charges of AR xd

[fathom bramble]

KS, vanish, AR, RTB, BF, BTE

[vague cape]

maybe the angle would be to give outlaw less punishment for downtime by just making ar permanantly active and replacing it with a really hard hitting cd? would stop the spec slowing down as much with downtime due to ar dropping

[fathom bramble]

GS

BR

Kidney ?

[quaint mauve]

that would kinda kill the skill expression imo

[quaint wharf]

Two charge kidney rogue would be banned in pvp

[hasty warren]

2 charges of kir

maybe too much

[white marten]

Make RtB passive

[vague cape]

not neccesarily, better players will still cycle more casts of cds

[fathom bramble]

I think 2 charges of AR would allow for some much needed wiggle room on our weaknesses without reducing skill expression as much

but skill expression would still come from this new Adrenalized strike and vanish cdr

[vague cape]

the design of restless blades will always reward good play and punish bad, AR just doubles down on the punishment angle

[quaint mauve]

i think it’s harder to be in permanent adr rather than cycle cds

[vague cape]

the reward for getting extra ARs while you still have it isn't that big

just cps

[white marten]

AR is just a dated CD. Needs some modernization

[cinder relic]

What does that even mean

Oh ur the person that just posts bait all the time

I fell for it

[vague cape]

having a hard hitting spell would reward highrolls or super clean gameplay more than ar

[light kernel]

Would it extend if both used together or rezets the first 1

[hasty warren]

it's linked

if ure good cycling u have perma ar

[vivid vessel]

i mean ye

[vague cape]

and punishes mistakes less

[fathom bramble]

imo it should be able to pandemic to 26 seconds and that's it

[vivid vessel]

2 charge on vansh made outlaw so much better

[vague cape]

at worst you will still have your big burst cd to offer some value

[fathom bramble]

could go to 40 though it's whatever

AR should also be able to pandemic right now

it's one of the only maintenance buffs in the game that doesn't

[strong halo]

How did my gameplay feel worst after 4 piece than before lol

[hasty warren]

1 talent better than all df

[open bane]

how much dps gain is 4 set

[white marten]

Undermine 4pc felt food .

[covert kestrel]

@woven otter accept me

[strong halo]

It’s -20% fun though

[covert kestrel]

BOOOOO

[hasty warren]

rip perma 6 buffs

[quaint wharf]

raising the base rate for a 5 buff roll could be fun too

[vivid vessel]

bro im glad outlaw is good on a boss taht got 1 pulled

@fathom bramble thoughts?

[open bane]

after breakin 4 set of undermine i m constantly getting bad rolls

wheres 6 rolls dat we have

🙁

[white marten]

Outlaw so good

[covert kestrel]

rolls are overrated

[fathom bramble]

woo

[open bane]

now i feel bad selling my 4 set

shieet

[vivid vessel]

maybe next aoe boss

is outlaw boss

(more than 2 pulls)

[hasty warren]

hugeistake

[vivid vessel]

(adds are relevant btw)

(arent dying in 1 gcd)

[white marten]

Make sure you take PC

[vivid vessel]

make sure you take pc to pad

[white marten]

The true outlaw way

[fathom bramble]

those adds are so fake

[vivid vessel]

@fathom bramble are you one of these guys that took pc on soulbinder

[strong halo]

I’m not convinced Assas is that much better than outlaw in raid other than last 2 bosses

[vivid vessel]

dont tell me you are

[fathom bramble]

people hitting a mob that doesn't move or fight and doing triple damage to them 👌

[strong halo]

Maybe mythic data

[white marten]

I bet he did

[fathom bramble]

I haven't even pulled a boss yet on my main

[vivid vessel]

on hc

or

[fathom bramble]

on anything

[vivid vessel]

ok

dont play pc

[white marten]

Mythic padding is real

[vivid vessel]

:)

every outalw rogue

[fathom bramble]

we did a split on wednesday and the rest of my raid is on the weekend so

[vivid vessel]

is playing pc

its making me wanna throw up

[white marten]

Zac, embrace the pad

[fathom bramble]

I don't remember what I ran on my alt

[vivid vessel]

every single one of these rogue is so stupid

[white marten]

Be the pad

[hasty warren]

i want to try it now

[white marten]

Love the pad

[strong halo]

A parse is a parse

I don’t get invited if my parse ugly

[white marten]

Facts

[fathom bramble]

I was full ST fatebound 2pc/2pc on my alt

[vivid vessel]

it disgust me

outlaw aoe is getting nerfed

cause of pc in raid

when playing pc in raid

is pure pad

useless

like

xd

if you play pc in raid

you have brain damage

[hasty warren]

just need twi separated tuning

[white marten]

But everyone pads. Including boomies and shadow priests in Loomithar

[strong halo]

It’s day 4

[hasty warren]

no sense raid nerf impact m+

[light kernel]

SP padding on last boss is insane

[strong halo]

And 5 specs already got nerfed and buffed

I imagine more will come tbh

[vivid vessel]

ye a sin buff

[white marten]

SP and Boomies are the pinnacle of senseless pad. Its so fun

[vivid vessel]

eh

[vague cape]

if you play pc outlaw in raid
you have brain damage ftfy

[vivid vessel]

i doubt they are taking a 10% st loss

to play pc

to pad

on irrelevant adds

[white marten]

Valid point

[strong halo]

Hey hey Hunter is meme tier!

[white marten]

Arcane mage needs a buff

[vague cape]

that is banshers tbh

[mighty pivot]

wait does that mean there will be a gap between the circles?

[hasty warren]

i think

[strong halo]

All the keys I’ve done with mm hunters they top

30M openers as “target capped”

[hasty warren]

not mine

[vague cape]

that's not really true anymore tbh

a lot of their dmg is uncapped

[vivid vessel]

remiunder that the only target capped spec in this game is outlaw

[white marten]

Sestii wine

[hasty warren]

hard cap u mean

[vague cape]

these talents added / reworked this patch

[white marten]

Isnt fury hard capped at 5?

[vague cape]

they give MM consistent access to uncapped aoe from exp shot

[hasty warren]

it's softcap

[hallow spoke]

Has anyone played with stone idol?

[white marten]

I see

[vague cape]

its hard

[vague cape]

this isnt true

[mighty pivot]

the disrespect for BR

[vague cape]

fury is HARD capped

[hasty warren]

wanna bet ?

[vague cape]

on meat cleaver

[white marten]

If you lose the bet you run PC in raid

[thorny zinc]

does incorp warpclaw have that bug where u have to reequip or it doesnt work? just did an ara kara and it did 0 dmg but the tanks did 3% of their dmg

[hasty warren]

hmm my friend lied to me ?

[normal pagoda]

Meat cleaver is hard capped, they have some soft capped shit but it's kinda whatever

[vague cape]

maybe he was talking about thunder blast

still

[glass mortar]

All their cd damage u mean

[vague cape]

most of furys aoe is hardcapped

[fathom bramble]

fury has a lot of damage sources that are not hard capped

[normal pagoda]

yeah this is what I was thinking

[glass mortar]

Odyns, roar, thunder blast

[hasty warren]

k mb so

[glass mortar]

Their scaling did get cucked s1 tho

[white marten]

Now you gotta run Pc is hc raid

[vague cape]

I remember when the first 2 spells actually did damage

[glass mortar]

Do to how strong their aoe burst was on those fighfz

[fathom bramble]

it kind of comes down to the pull and how many of their cds are up and the good aoe burst got some nerfs so like

[glass mortar]

Yea blame s1

[fathom bramble]

they are pretty capped

[vague cape]

ran with my guilds fury warr today

[glass mortar]

Ww is also super capped tbh

Their target scaling is ass

[vague cape]

doubled his dmg on 1st pull flood

did 29m

he was like 12

[cinder relic]

WW is good rn

[vague cape]

he has 4pc

[cinder relic]

very sleeper good

[vague cape]

that spec is doomed (fury)

[hasty warren]

y same

[cinder relic]

WW is not bad

[glass mortar]

U use all cds on a 8 target pull and do like 15m dps, u use all cds on a 30 target pull and do like 18m dps

Oh the specs fine

[cinder relic]

I swear nobody knows anything about this game (no flame)

[fathom bramble]

WW gets better target scaling with the new tier

don't remember why or how

[hasty warren]

i've 2M more dps than him

[glass mortar]

I'm just talking about its scaling

[vague cape]

was talking about fury

[cinder relic]

Oh

Yeah fury sucks balls

I can't read then

Warrior is so bad this tier its awful

[normal pagoda]

Someone did say WW is target capped... so you read okay

[glass mortar]

I think the new tier buffs the hero talent with their only decent uncapped yea

[vivid vessel]

warrior is so bad in keys

still does outlaw damage tho

[vague cape]

it was just unfortunate timing for us to send messages, looked like I was responding to you xd

[cinder relic]

Warrior does insane ST in keybuild tho

But their aoe is beans

[strong halo]

Bro ignore outlaw numbers no way anyone here thinks 4 piece is fun to play in m+

[vague cape]

no comment about ww, not seen a single one outside of raid

[strong halo]

Cooked 4 piece isn’t fun

[glass mortar]

Wdym double coup is a banger

[strong halo]

Hell no

[glass mortar]

Literally based off one of our favorite bugs

[strong halo]

It feels clunky as hell

[hasty warren]

not that much

it's ok

[pastel sierra]

What happened to the prot war hype? Or did they get shot immediately

[cinder relic]

I mean this is our warrior player in guild on swampface

[white marten]

Its a bug that was turned into a tier bonus.

[normal pagoda]

them and brew got sniped right before patch but they're still okay

[strong halo]

I really don’t find it fun tbh it’s clunky

[pastel sierra]

F

[strong halo]

That makes it worst imo

[hasty warren]

this screen is fake war is above sin

[normal pagoda]

I swapped to warrior just because it felt easier to play on steam deck since my computer is currently cooked. lmao.... I'm just here for my AP 🙂

[frail veldt]

Eh

[cinder relic]

Sin ST in key build is literally unplayable

[glass mortar]

Just dont build again ez

[cinder relic]

Unless u funnel ur literally doing bottom DPS

[hasty warren]

y ik was kidding

[frail veldt]

It's getting harder and harder to get back into crackshot lol

So many things to do that block vanish

Getting annoying haha

[pastel sierra]

I have to learn sin pulls to teach my friends

[hasty warren]

last boss rook was painful for sub

[vague cape]

good thing we can pull mobs into bosses, how do we fix flurry cap xd

uncap it and ur bm 2.0, anemic at everything except mass

[hasty warren]

idk if uncap is a solution

[vague cape]

the cap deffo aint the solution

[hasty warren]

remember bfa

[fathom bramble]

softcap doesn't buff our damage by as much as people think it would

[quaint mauve]

now show him in aoe

[fathom bramble]

it would be fine to just hit with the softcap

and no other changes

[vague cape]

idk man, there would need to be compensation nerfs no?

[fathom bramble]

not at the current tuning imo

[vivid vessel]

no ?

[vague cape]

ok maybe current tuning is a bit sussy

[cedar kernel]

bad news

stat broke

💀

[fathom bramble]

it would not be a significant change to our overall and would still leave as as last on big pulls

[pastel sierra]

Remember when BF hit dead enemies for a whole season

[fathom bramble]

for most routes for most players

[vivid vessel]

i changed my mind tho

i wanna stay capped

[cinder relic]

Oh its like 0

[vivid vessel]

but i want smart targeting on bf

so it always target hte highest hp mobs

[vague cape]

idk, all of sin is softcapped to 5 except ct which is hidden 8 cap

it deletes mass aoe

[pastel sierra]

Flat hp or percent hp

[wintry solar]

they need to bring adr back to its former glory

[vague cape]

maybe not to spriest or actual uncapped caster standards

[vivid vessel]

because its overtuned?

[quaint mauve]

literally just bring back merciless bonegrinder and that class is fixed

[vague cape]

but still v competitive

[hasty warren]

smells good

[fathom bramble]

I mean you can run the numbers for how much you would gain at 12/16/20 targets and it's not some massive amount

[frail veldt]

I agree

[vivid vessel]

sin does that damage under cap aswell @vague cape

idk what you mean

[fathom bramble]

you would still be far below sin/hunter/dk/boomie on these packs

[vague cape]

yes it does

sin's strongest at like 8ish i think

the irony

[frail veldt]

Wdym? Aoe bleeds aren't even capped

[vague cape]

they are

[frail veldt]

AOE bleed application is just full damage to all targets hit isn't it?

They aren't weaker versions of the bleeds

Am I just fried?

[vague cape]

they aren't weaker

the cap is due to the limit of how many you can apply

• diminishing returns on spreading bleeds vs just pushing spatter dam

[real yew]

which time should I roll again if I have 3+ buffs?

[hasty warren]

u have max bleed target ?

[frail veldt]

Also caustic is 5 target soft cap?

[fathom bramble]

yes

even though following normal target cap conventions it should be 4

but whatever

[frail veldt]

Doesn't assa have funnel though

Like it's AOE damage duplicates onto the main target with mark

So it technically has some uncapped damage scaling

[vague cape]

can anyone clarify exactly how KS's new iteration works mechanically?

[hasty warren]

depend the build no ?

[frail veldt]

Yes it targets one unit randomly in 180 degree cone in front of the outlaw

[fathom bramble]

you attack 2(1+CP) times against random enemies in front of you

[frail veldt]

Per hit it's a random target

[vague cape]

repeatedly

[frail veldt]

Hits is cp + 1

[vague cape]

aight

[frail veldt]

But t hits twice per hit

Cuz it's main and and offhand

[vague cape]

I mean

[frail veldt]

It's a single target ability

[vague cape]

why don't they just make it

really strong uncapped aoe

[frail veldt]

Lolololol

Lolololololol

[vivid vessel]

lololol

[fathom bramble]

everyone else has already asked this question

[frail veldt]

That would be great wouldn't it

[fathom bramble]

but yeah who knows

[vague cape]

like REALLY good

[frail veldt]

Crazy idea

Yeah

[real yew]

I should only roll if I have 2 or less buffs and Dice is active? If I have 3 buffs, should I let them expire before rolling again?

[frail veldt]

Welcome

[fathom bramble]

it looks aoe the description makes it sound aoe

[vague cape]

fury s1 bladestorm levels

[fathom bramble]

and yet it's ST random hits

[frail veldt]

Yeah I'd love that

One button

That's uncapped aoe

Or even softcapped

IDGAF

[pastel sierra]

We had this discussion witb the old one that randomly killed u

[vague cape]

im fairly sure every convo we're having now has been had before like 2+ times at this point

except that cursed fucking suggestion from Lok

[vivid vessel]

have you guys managed to complete this quest btw

im stuck at 96%

[fathom bramble]

find a rare to kill

[pastel sierra]

Yeah rares

[vivid vessel]

inside the other world?

[cinder relic]

Inside the phase diving yeah

[fathom bramble]

in phase diving

[pastel sierra]

Wqs that require u to be phased

[vivid vessel]

hm

ok

[hasty warren]

do adr affect KS speed ?

[vivid vessel]

no

[hasty warren]

sad

[frail veldt]

Only haste lol

[hasty warren]

i would be cool

[frail veldt]

Sure would

[fathom bramble]

would be even cooler if it had a fixed duration of 2.4 seconds

and gained more ticks with haste

[hasty warren]

humm

i don't like this

It's already strange to have a chaneling as outlaw

[frail veldt]

Yeah honestly it's sad that it's dpe doesn't go up from haste only dpet

[hasty warren]

wanna rewrite my rework idea from sl

with explosive barrels

[hybrid crown]

That design gives haste breakpoint vibes

[hasty warren]

y I played too much lol

[fathom bramble]

partial ticks are fairly standard now

[frail veldt]

Yeah that's not really a thing anymore

Hasn't been for a while

[wintry solar]

lucky bitch. Wish that were me.

[hollow thunder]

man i just want that coupe applies to BTE also

[fathom bramble]

it can only happen when/if they overlook some mechanic on the partial ticks

like when partial ticks had the full % chance to trigger rejuvenation to bounces on resto druid

[hollow thunder]

so you have like 2 "safe" resets and no need for out of stealth windows

[fathom bramble]

if we had a partial tick at the end of KS it would just need to have an adjusted chance to trigger MG and such

in any case I think the channel time on KS is too long, and for a spec with a fixed GCD we probably shouldn't have hasted cast times either

reducing it to 2-2.4 seconds and making it fixed would be a 2 part solution imo

[hasty warren]

bruh already 3am, wanna sleep good game pirates

[mighty pivot]

this one doesn't even need rares fyi you can just kill any phased mob and it gives you progress (like 0,5%)

[vivid vessel]

tf

[mighty pivot]

man how did they miss the mark so much with streets? that shit had 50% deplete rate

[vague cape]

sometimes downtime can be really good, gives you a chance to blink, breathe and chill while it channels, I actually don't mind it

[vivid vessel]

outlaw rogue

btw

just play bm hunter

maybe

[vague cape]

how old are you

inb4 12

[vivid vessel]

25

you must be 50 tho

grandpa

[vague cape]

basically same, still young

ye man, 31 gg its over one foot in the grave the other on the way to main ret

[fathom bramble]

I understand the sentiment and if I was against us having a channel in general I would just say KS should be instant

[vivid vessel]

you wanna take a breather pla assa maybe

[vague cape]

I do agree supercharged spree is too long

[fathom bramble]

2.4 seconds is about how long a 6CP KS usually is

[vague cape]

they should probs not let it go over 2s

[frail veldt]

I'm 32

It ain't too late

Still smokin these kiddos

[vague cape]

hair's already gone bro, back pain too and I have grey hair

gg

[frail veldt]

Worst part is it's literally wasted

[vague cape]

the cp gen?

[frail veldt]

You cancel KS when you hit max cp

It's a DPS loss to full channel afaik

[vague cape]

I thought that was neutral

[fathom bramble]

supercharged KS is actually 1 tick shorter than it's suppose to be

[frail veldt]

Or at least neutral

[fathom bramble]

for unknown reasons

[frail veldt]

So yeah it's a waste

If it's neutral

[fathom bramble]

in addition to us canceling it for a 0.3% gain or whatever

[frail veldt]

Cuz you threw away the sc value

I delay SC if in gona KS

[vivid vessel]

eh

on trickstrer

it was litteraly neutral type shit

[frail veldt]

Yeah it's not even a gain to full channel it

Tragic ability

[vivid vessel]

stop saing that

they willl buff it agian

it litteraly feels so bad fully channeling it

like when the cp is fully builded

idk

i dont wanna continue channeling that shit

its boring

so boring

[mighty pivot]

another 15% for KS

[gaunt phoenix]

my guess is it's something related to the damage formula being AP * (CPs + 1)

while our other finishers are just AP * CPs

[vague cape]

would having subway surfers next to the killing spree visual help?

[gaunt phoenix]

also explains why the dpet is higher when you cancel

[open bane]

is there any good plater profile out there and clean

[vague cape]

!plater

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[vague cape]

there's a command but i forgot

#assassination message

wrong channel

xd

fuckin bozo spec that doesn't need plater

[frail veldt]

Aaaaah good point

Is that effect implemented in the sim?

[gaunt phoenix]

Not the supercharger bug no

[frail veldt]

Iiijnteresting

Def won't be supercharging it then

[sour fossil]

Anyone have a quick link to the switch weapon weakaura for cudgel cant find it for the life of me

[keen belfry]

Is there anyway fully channeling it is better in big pulls to apply fazed to more targets

I don’t understand how it chooses what targets to apply fazed too

It’s such a bad ability man

Did old ks apply fazed to more targets

[frail veldt]

!weaponswap

[ornate heath]

You can swap most weapons in keys. Outlaw swaps between the Nightfall event weapon for trash and a better offhand for bosses, such as Capo (change the name):

/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 Capo's Molten Knuckles```
If your offhand is the same name as your mainhand or you have two of them in your bags, then the above macro won't work, you have to swap by bag slot:
```#showtooltip 17
/equipslot 17 Nightfall Curseblade's Cudgel
/equipslot 17 <bag #> <bag slot #>```
Note that **Gallywix's Iron Thumb** cannot be swapped in keys.

[quaint mauve]

dude ur fingers still work at that age?

[frail veldt]

Lol he's turning to dust

But on a related note how do people under 25 even get into wow

[keen belfry]

I swear they don’t

[quaint mauve]

i got into the game through private servers

[keen belfry]

Or their parents

[quaint mauve]

bc i saw an ad

of acension

on youtube LOL

[frail veldt]

Thats wild

[keen belfry]

Cooked

[quaint mauve]

first ever wow character is an undead rogue on warmane

[burnt dragon]

we just don't get to start in stealth on dimensius, huh?

[torpid fiber]

I started playing at like 16 in legion without knowing anyone else who had ever played, I'd just played a bit of hs and hots and wow was always in a spot in my mind where it was super fucking cool because of thr cultural status

I think rwf probably helps get young ppl into wow

Imo the biggest issue with wow new player acquisition rn is the free trial being so bad compared to ff14

[keen belfry]

I got into it via my friends introducing my to BC launch in their basement when we’re like 4th graders

[torpid fiber]

How can I recommend wow to a friend who wants to try an mmorpg when ff14 has a free trial that's literally 100x the length?

[long barn]

!gear

[ornate heath]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/475024539693219850/1405681472161190031/law.webp

[frail veldt]

I technically played in vanilla on my friends family account but only made it to like level 18

Then I eventually got an account when I made a PC in tbc

[quaint mauve]

yeah it sucks that u cnt really show someone retail

i got my friends into private servers

and we leveled in wotlk