outlaw

[shell lark]

!bugs

[ornate heath]

[Outlaw bug Thread](#1276315296159760467 message)

[wintry solar]

I guess fatebound but idrc enough about fatebound

[tender wedge]

mmm trickster just has too many goodies, FB need a big rejig

[wintry solar]

For real

Trickster has everything I'd ever need

Idk what fb could give

Free auto feints? Idk

[tender wedge]

if nothing else, it's kinda too wordy to even understand

and all for what

[covert kestrel]

make tricks 1hr baseline

[tender wedge]

im talking FB

[covert kestrel]

yea

make it baseline

i said what i said

[tender wedge]

oh right sorry i misread

[wintry solar]

Why make trickster less appealing?

[tender wedge]

i thought you said "it makes tricks 1hr" and i thought uhhhh no thats the good one again lol

[wintry solar]

The passiveness is fine

Idm that

But that capstone is cringe

[frail veldt]

oh 100%

30s cd tricks is so tedious

for no reason

[short heath]

anyone here tried rotation helper addons? Know which one is best for outlaw?

[solar shell]

Hero rotation - good

[feral glen]

Hekili with couple of setting to disable Killing Spree (ex first boss rookery intermission)

• godly good

[blissful thunder]

cant you just macro it

[feral glen]

M vexie two month ago rank 2 world

[chilly atlas]

oh, can we not really press ks on swamp face?

[frail veldt]

Wdym

[blissful thunder]

can you not just macro tricks into something

am i tweaking

[frail veldt]

Then you'd use it at the end of a pack

And it'd be on CD

For the start of the next

And you'd die insta

Lol

So no

[blissful thunder]

i did not even know it had a cd!

i am a trickster enjoyer

[little zephyr]

When is KIR generally better than HO?

[vivid vessel]

Always

Mostly aoe

But always on ptr

[vague cape]

It’s particularly better for aoe

[chilly dagger]

just need the haste

[little zephyr]

Ah ok so in like raids it’s much better to run HO?

[vivid vessel]

In raid it's better rn

That won't be true come next tier tho

[short heath]

how would i do that?

[vague cape]

you can play either build atm for anything imo

[tender wedge]

Yeah kir is more ahead in keys than HO is in raid %wise but they’re both very close. HO is much simpler though

[short heath]

!prekey

[ornate heath]

Pre-key fuckery

• RTB as you enter the dungeon to get 2 Supercharger stacks.
• DO NOT RTB again inside the bubble as you will lose the supercharger stacks, similarly do not AR early inside the bubble or you will lose the combo points.
• After the bubble drops use RTB again (now at 4 stacks of Supercharger).
• Before entering the first pack BF into Stealth.
• Open on pack with AR into BtE.

[timber zephyr]

More bug abuse?

[wintry solar]

They know about the pre key stuff. It changes every so often

[plush swan]

wait

did we find more bugs to abuse?

[frank finch]

[agile briar]

All this to be F tier next season…..

[timber zephyr]

TYPE SHIT

[agile briar]

https://tenor.com/view/rude-gif-2074021595659835685

[civic zephyr]

@vivid vessel fk u im becoming an outlaw main and its your fault

[vivid vessel]

np

But late tho

Should have done that in s2

[civic zephyr]

i didnt really play until a month ago

i just came back

but ill deal with it

rogue is fun

so fuck it

[mighty pivot]

so it's your fault KS rework is poop

[civic zephyr]

its zacs fault

[mighty pivot]

why would zac do this?

[civic zephyr]

cos he hates us and wants us to suffer </3

[finite arch]

Tomelvis is the reason outlaw isnt getting more buffs dudes pumping in keys

[civic zephyr]

literally

fuck tomelvis dude

[finite arch]

Real

[civic zephyr]

ruining our chances of being buffed

[grim spear]

indeed

[random stirrup]

he giveth and he taketh

[vivid vessel]

Me when you have to build an entire comp buffing a single spec to make it remotely viable

[civic zephyr]

is it worth dropping the second point in FTH for GS?

on kir/supercharger

for m+

[cedar moss]

wtf is wrong with people

[nova sinew]

this is a 35 year old man on reddit you have to adjust your expectations

[normal forge]

good question

[civic zephyr]

surely its super casual collecter shit that only care are the PURE visuals and what looks flashy and cool while they afk mentally in solo content

[cedar moss]

true and real

[craggy kelp]

[normal forge]

new ks is not perfect, but is much better than current implementation, less chance to get urself killed, less chances to get disconnect , lets hope this new one dont bring new bugs

[finite arch]

Ks disconnects you?

[vivid vessel]

Ye that's

Bare minimum for an ability btw

You would think you should take that granted

New ks is litteral dogshit

Imagine if you got it as a new spell instead of a replacement for the worse spell in the. Game

No one would have accepted that shit

[normal forge]

yes, specially if near body of water

[normal forge]

very good take on the matter

[finite arch]

Should make ks work the same as dh's blade dance thing

This fth style is like meh and im not a 35yr old boomer

[tender wedge]

Imagine you’ve been walking through the desert for days. You’re parched. You need hydration. Then suddenly this dude runs up to you and he’s like yooo brother you look thirsty I got this water for you! Oh and by the way, I found this dead rat and then just dropped it on in there for flavour 😄
So like. You’re happy you’re not DEAD
but you’re also kinda like…did you NEED to drop that rat in there?

that's new KS

[civic zephyr]

thats a really long way of saying, its still shit, but its better than it was xD

[tender wedge]

i like the imagery

[civic zephyr]

LMAO

i respect it honestly

[finite arch]

I feel like this guy when using the new KS

Can we have blade rush back blizzard

[analog mulch]

Do you also dream about your own kingdom?

[jagged ivy]

its people that dont realise that the ability changes mechanically

they think its only a visual change

thats all

[finite arch]

Yea

[jolly geyser]

Kingdom come

[vivid vessel]

ye

[vapid blaze]

tbh most other classes also would have gotte hotfixed for old ks
like week 1/2 of it beeing played

[vivid vessel]

yep

no but i think its completly normal for outlaw to have the longest cast in the game in its rotation every 20s

my feral pressing convoke is faster

[vapid blaze]

that also stunlocks you
random tps you
cant interact
and even though has 100% stagger you can still insta die inside of it

is it longer than void torrent btw
cause that shit doesnt scale with haste either no

[tidal sequoia]

how many muscles do you guys pull in cinderbrew on 1st pull on phys comp
on 19, 3 seems to be a bit much

@vivid vessel do you have any vod on cinderbrew?

[opal raven]

https://youtu.be/R-ZAfUBa928

[vivid vessel]

3 but we do a small pack

[vivid vessel]

8m??

this guy is crazy man wtf

[cedar moss]

who is this guy

[vivid vessel]

i wish i could do that still in s3

oh well

[cedar moss]

imagine loosing dps going into another season

[vivid vessel]

well you lose dps relatively to others

altough ngl before all the buffs it was close xd

[cedar moss]

ye that's why lol

hopefuly s3 will be balanced

[vivid vessel]

Ye

I mean maybe I'm delusional

But outlaw has litteraly 0 upside unless it does cracked damage

You have no cds

You are hard capped

You have no utility

You are tanky at least

You can't do a single mechanic without losing all your damage

You lose uptime you lose

At least you don't kill yourself with ks anymore so that's good

[cedar moss]

pray for midnight rework

[tender wedge]

i know this isn't ideal but ive really just come to terms with playing outlaw until i have to play assass instead

[cedar moss]

rogues rly need love

[tender wedge]

like sprocket

[vivid vessel]

you are good at killing useless mobs that no one even bother aoeing tho

[cedar moss]

sounds like ret to me

[vivid vessel]

no cause ret lose st doing that

like they activelyu modify their rotation to do that right

outlaw doesnt

[cedar moss]

yes but did u ever saw a ret not spamming ds in 1st boss dfc or adds before last boss cinder for example

[vivid vessel]

That's litteraly outlaw only strength and idk if it's a strength anymore when half the specs in the game gain funnel from aoe

But like ye it's good at killing dfc adds

[cedar moss]

yeah too many funnel specs nowadays

[vivid vessel]

Bees on cinder 2nd boss

Mini adds on first boss

Stuff like these

Outlaw is good at

You kill funnel

[cedar moss]

kek

mdinight rework when

[brisk meadow]

Cancel aura bf hurts my heart

[vivid vessel]

I just find it strange that anytime pc is good, so outlaw has a niche, they nerf it or bf

Hmge

So we have a niche given by a talent but we aren't allowed to be good in that niche

[finite arch]

The trash before braunpyke feels so saids for outlaw

The consecrate is aids

[civic zephyr]

the reason we get no buffs, fuck this guy

this mf tomelvis

[vivid vessel]

We don't care tho? You can stay in the circle before it's down on the ground

[finite arch]

I play with 200ms

[vivid vessel]

so?

[finite arch]

I aint sticking around

[vivid vessel]

do you go out of melee when you see the circle around paladins

[finite arch]

I personally bubble hearth

[vivid vessel]

no but

answer the question no troll

[agile orchid]

the circle has a huge ass delay, no reason to move out the entire time

[finite arch]

I obv try to step out as it comes out cause with my ms the dmg ticks first before i see it

[normal forge]

they need to bake current tier in talents for next season and make it evergreen

tier set

[vivid vessel]

bro i have the same ms on ptr idk what you are talking about honestly

i lose exactly 0 uptime on these mobs

[agile orchid]

can you survive the consecrate if you just feint?

asking about higher keys

[vivid vessel]

it does like 50% of your hp ticks in higher keys or smth

issue is overlap with the aoe

[vapid blaze]

hell no

[rotund zodiac]

[torpid fiber]

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix I'm a loaded dice hater now, I really think outlaw should just have baseline 2 buffs, and that's it, I hate rolling my2 buff with loaded, and then it's shit and I'm stuck with it for 30s

[stiff hawk]

Thats what i said for a long time

Make it 2/3/5

[vivid vessel]

No

Just 2

[mighty pivot]

it could even be 2/5 with non-meme chance to 5

[vivid vessel]

I want to reduce rng

I'm so tired man

[civic zephyr]

Make outlaw more consistent, atleast at a baseline level

[hardy thicket]

[jolly geyser]

Im tired cause its hot

[hardy thicket]

yeah no shit

[reef ruin]

I'm tired because I am hot

[shy meteor]

Bro is suffering from success

[vapid blaze]

you dont reroll that shit away?

[vivid vessel]

No not really

[gaunt phoenix]

i guess the issue is supercharger not loaded

I need to see if 1fth should just never roll over a broadside or something

[vivid vessel]

You kinda get stuck on the buffs you get, if you reroll you most likely get 1 buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

But then supercharger does nothing for 39s

[vivid vessel]

I mean

I go into a pack

[gaunt phoenix]

I mean 1fth just chokes on itself until broadside

[mighty pivot]

just keep s2 set on

[pliant wind]

Im starting to hate outlaw in ptr :)

Hehe

[vivid vessel]

I go into a pack, I roll bt something solo

[pliant wind]

Nice

[vivid vessel]

And like I do 0 damage for 30 s

Idk

It's bad

Feels bad at least

[pliant wind]

They took better rolls from rtb, baseline for outlaw to be much better

[vivid vessel]

Especially with kir if I can't really kir

[pliant wind]

....

[vivid vessel]

Idk I would just like to roll 2 buffs forever so I can go again if I get cucked

[pliant wind]

Yeah...

[vivid vessel]

Or idk have higher CTO chance

It feels terrible going into a pack rolling fucking bt SNC or some shit

[pliant wind]

I only got 3.5k rio, but in this season idk who is gonna get me with this deviations

[vivid vessel]

And then you barely get CTO if any

You can't kir

[pliant wind]

Fuck me

[vivid vessel]

You can't do shit

[keen belfry]

Have you tried focusing up more

But I neeed to remember how loaded dice feels

[mighty pivot]

i will once again share my amazing idea of having CTO always proc BS first if you don't have that already

[pliant wind]

Even if our overall damage is good, if we have a bad pull rng we have tank dmg, like, wtf??

Bro

[vapid blaze]

your overall damage is pad

[keen belfry]

Are we a pad spec chat

[mighty pivot]

#subtlety message

[vapid blaze]

idk you should never be able to natty roll 1 buff

[pliant wind]

We should never be dependant of loaded dice

[keen belfry]

What if they just removed buried treasure

[vapid blaze]

loaded should just give you +1 like the s3 tset

[pliant wind]

Probability of 1 buff should be the same as 4

[vapid blaze]

and you should get baseline 2 with a chance for 5

[pliant wind]

Im nearly obliged of change from HO to KiR, ok, no problem

But this is worse bro

If you have bad rng, is disgusting as fuck

[mighty pivot]

no way they make sweeping changes that late in testing

[reef forge]

Do we know what the most likely best raid spec will be next season?

[pliant wind]

Sub is my guess

[agile orchid]

the answer is always assa

[pliant wind]

Mmmm idk

Depends on your guild too

[vivid vessel]

I mean you never do anyway since you never roll basically

You are never a 1 buff

[agile orchid]

so now we'll roll only with loaded dice?

[vivid vessel]

Ye that's how you played with loaded dice

But idk

1 fth

Is unplayable

[vapid blaze]

wait is loaded dice just +1 roll

[vivid vessel]

When you low roll

So

It's +1

Well

[vapid blaze]

ah ok

the wording sucks then or whast

[shy meteor]

Do we still play supercharger on ptr then ?

[vivid vessel]

It changes the 1 into 2

It's not +1

[vapid blaze]

meh

[vivid vessel]

Yes

[vapid blaze]

u sure?
wouldnt more energy kinda make the rng abit better

you dont get completly fucked

[pliant wind]

Im gonna change to fire.

[agile orchid]

thistle tea outlaw

[atomic garden]

need a rework

[pliant wind]

Been outlaw since bfa, and its like playing the same

[vapid blaze]

i suppose apl wasnt updated yet?

[pliant wind]

But worse

Every spec is adapting and evolving

We are stuck

[atomic garden]

but not outlaw

[agile orchid]

wdym

outlaw kept evolving since then

[pliant wind]

.

[atomic garden]

evolve into rng machine

[agile orchid]

you didn't have crackshot in bfa

[keen belfry]

Hmmm yeah s1 kir wasn’t too bad playstyle wise (it wasn’t good but wasn’t terrible) but we didn’t play 1fth then

[agile orchid]

you didn't have fan the hammer

[stiff hawk]

Yeah true, the BTE Vanish cycle

is not a completely new thing

right

[keen belfry]

Hmmm 1fth with less buff uptime sounds a BIT cooked

[stiff hawk]

Its the same since bFA

trust

[atomic garden]

its the second least played spec for a reason

[pliant wind]

Why we depend soooo much from rng?

Because we are pirates?

[stiff hawk]

Its not even the spec with the most rng

[agile orchid]

because having a bit of rng makes gameplay more interesting

[atomic garden]

a bit? we are a walking slot machine

[pliant wind]

I prefer procs than rng buffs

[stiff hawk]

and Rogue in General was always kinda RNG

[pliant wind]

Not with sub and assa

[stiff hawk]

Oh boi it was

[pliant wind]

Sub is pure tech

Now

[stiff hawk]

it was just not in your face

It was just crits

[pliant wind]

Ah well

[stiff hawk]

not roll and see what buffs you get

[pliant wind]

Thats a wow stat

Haha

[stiff hawk]

?????

[pliant wind]

Crits probability

I mean

[stiff hawk]

Its still RNG that decided as much as your RTB rolls

or Ace Procs

wdym

[pliant wind]

Man, outlaw depends too much on rng, the deviation even if ita not too much overall, when you have badluck with this spec in some pulls, its tank dmg now

[atomic garden]

the problem is that we have to put tremendous effort just to be mediocre

[pliant wind]

Its not an skill issue, and i hate it

[stiff hawk]

Its just more in your face

[agile orchid]

tremendous effort

come on

[atomic garden]

try a bg, u wont win a fight unless theres someone helping you

[stiff hawk]

Bro nobody cares about pvp

[atomic garden]

some do

[vapid blaze]

i mean its kinda true?

[balmy topaz]

Riposte says different

[stiff hawk]

Fuck you Ruby

[balmy topaz]

Fuck you Tira

[stiff hawk]

https://tenor.com/view/yugioh-no-u-no-you-reverse-uno-uno-gif-22508660

[pliant wind]

I had fun in s2, i had good rio and i overcome myself, but now i dont even wanna try

And this one is my fav spec

Im just sad

Thats all

[reef forge]

Boys have been spoilt by this season lol it's just going back to what we did the whole of dragonflight

[atomic garden]

how are u supouse to play outlaw after addon ban? write the buffs on a piece of paper? its obvious there are too many rngs and overcomplicated mechanics just to be almost close to a halfbrain other class

[balmy topaz]

They discussed that in an interview

They said they need to optimise the UI before doing it as classes like outlaw aren't playable without WA's

[pliant wind]

I threw my opinion

[inner stump]

this is a non issue, cd manager works fine for outlaw, the problem is container buff shit

[agile orchid]

there is no addon ban for a long time

[vapid blaze]

well and unseen blade
remind me why that shit doesnt have a trackable buff icon

[atomic garden]

it doesent matter its now or later, the point is that its too much effort for too little reward

idt that all the players complaining on the forum are all wrong

[agile orchid]

I play the spec for fun

if you find it too much effort, just play ret or something

[atomic garden]

if the dev even reads the forum....

like...the oficial comunication with the players

[vivid vessel]

Dev?

[atomic garden]

i mean the team charged with rogue class

[agile orchid]

what team

[atomic garden]

...

https://tenor.com/view/dog-crying-meme-doggo-crys-megan-soo-crying-dog-gif-5276199764143986284

[agile orchid]

we have to be grateful they changed KS

[vapid blaze]

nah

[shy meteor]

Surely that was an intern, they gave him a task where it doesn’t matter if he fucks up

[vapid blaze]

legit any other class had old ks
it gets hotfixed mid week 1

[agile orchid]

mages had to deal with rune of power for ages

same with DK and DnD

[vapid blaze]

mage prob gets an apology hotfix a week after it makes ptr

nah thats not even in the same galaxy as killingspree

[agile orchid]

I think shadowpriest used to have a talent

that gave them a huge buff but they had to kill the target in X seconds

otherwise the spriest dies

[atomic garden]

mby couse mage team actually comunicates and listens to the comunity

[vapid blaze]

surrender to madness

but i doubt it comes close to ks

[agile orchid]

it's an ability that kills you

[vapid blaze]

my raidleader said he cant watch outlaw gameplay
cause of the teleport

[shy meteor]

Curse of madness

[vapid blaze]

not to mention its unplayable on some bosses

[agile orchid]

why are you even raiding as outlaw lmao

[vapid blaze]

was keys 😛

[agile orchid]

I can't wait for season 3

new gameplay will be so chill

[compact mountain]

it killed you when voidform expired, which was extended by spending insanity, and increased your insanity generation. It was basically like how we treat Adrenaline Rush except easier to keep 100% uptime and much much stronger. It was meant to be a meme spell, and became a ridiculously overpowered playstyle.

[winter cave]

I progress Mythic Etraus with it back in the day

That was terribly stressful yet fun

Bit curious I'm thinking I'll play my rogue as outlaw next season, though most likely as my first alt, how are we looking in keys/raids at the moment on PTR ?

Killing Spree changes look good to me, but I wonder how we'll compare to the rest of the DPS

[gaunt phoenix]

aoe tuning is prob fine

Single target tuning might not be up to par

even after the buff

[vapid blaze]

idk im on zacs side that it gets nerfed cause raid

[vivid vessel]

It still not what it was in S2 at all, and no one played outlaw in S2 either, if you aren't doing cracked damage, a spec without burst, target capped, with no funnel, average prio, no utility, what are you even providing

[winter cave]

Crowd control ? Oh wait....

[vivid vessel]

You know what's funny about all of this also, one of the thing that other healer I played with said about outlaw is that it lacked aoe

[fluid iron]

first time?

[vivid vessel]

In s2

Current outlaw

[fluid iron]

https://tenor.com/view/hang-first-time-smiles-gif-14991372

[vivid vessel]

And it doesn't particularly lack AOE but you have no burst

So you do 0 damage compared to normal specs when the damage is needed

So packs are longer until they aren't longer anymore cause you caught up

But it takes time to catch up

And until you do you are not a real spec so what's the point if you do subpar damage

If you do normal spec damage while having this garbo damage profile you aren't a real spec

That's all there is to it

[vapid blaze]

i swear most people dont understand how garbage having 0 aoe burst is in keys

[flat needle]

On one hand i understand your point but on the other hand i love the outlaw playstyle with just sending cds 99% of time. Nothing worse then holding cds in this game. I also like that you do your damage every pack. Not extremely high but never very low. I dont like classes/specs that burn like hell during cds and then slap like a tank for like 1 min 30 seconds.

[keen belfry]

It still feels like we aren’t ever meant to just take 1fth, and current tier set is a bandaid that allows you to kinda get away with 1fth

1fth no broadside should rot in he’ll

Fix how either RTB works or make fth 1 point

[azure vortex]

Guildies respond me saying rogue has cc when i say i have 0 utility

[halcyon elm]

i think u mean slap like a healer*

[vivid vessel]

I mean ye I love the plays style lol that's why I play it

[halcyon elm]

tank is currently a 4th dps on ptr ive heard

[azure vortex]

I am for sure know that they have seen a rogue in their m+ group 2 years ago

[vivid vessel]

The playstyle is good I didn't mention the playstyle

It's just the rest

And the damage profile of doing damage all the time without CDs isn't particularly terrible if you are tuned properly

But you can't just stack weaknesses over weaknesses

[vivid vessel]

I mean I'm confused, sub kept their niche of having big CDs quick burst no?

You lost funnel tho

Assa got that

[fluid iron]

our niche was funnel

[vivid vessel]

And everything else

Ye

[fluid iron]

was never burst

[civic zephyr]

idk sub is just melee fire mage, cant change my mind

[vivid vessel]

Tbf that was before my time

I haven't really known sub funnel

It was always quite memey

SL funnel

[vivid vessel]

Fire mage is litteraly outlaw

[civic zephyr]

it is more now in terms of pace and stuff

but it used to be "do everything in cds then youre a bot"

thats now how sub feelss

which is why i stopped playing sub in general

[vivid vessel]

It's a spec that cleaves around your target
It has procs you react to
No casts
Very quick and fast playstyle
They are Perma in combust

[atomic garden]

perma in tank dmg

[gaunt phoenix]

and most fire mages are terrible

[vapid blaze]

and they actually do all that better lol

imagine scaling with haste 🙂

thats also a thing
getting 0 value from lust is just so dumb xD

[fluid iron]

yeh it used to be REDICULOUSLY strong

[vivid vessel]

I feel like they wanted to remove funnel from the game at that time tbf

Which they kinda did

And now

We are back to funnel being a thing

And half the specs in this game funneling

[fluid iron]

boss dmg on zul

sub vs everybody else

[vapid blaze]

yeah now everybody has funnel
its like the reverse
if you cant funel you just not good prio

[fluid iron]

thats what happens when you make an entire fight with completely useless adds that are up like 98% of the fight

and you just let them live for as long as possible

[winter cave]

I kinda gave up and I'm not maining my rogue this season for the first time in a long time 😐

[jagged ivy]

dont forget the part where you could do that with a fresh max lvl rogue in leveling greens

[frank finch]

ahh the great sub cleanse

[winter cave]

Too many problems with how we fit in comps

[frank finch]

i member

[winter cave]

Sin is okay-ish but I don't wanna just play sin

[brisk meadow]

wtf is @jagged ivy in this channel

[jagged ivy]

a bird whispered me that zac is ranting about outlaw, which is 🍿

[gaunt phoenix]

tryan hates all outlaw players

[winter cave]

Ah so you're basically always in this channel

[deft gazelle]

is kir still better than hidden opportunity?

[jagged ivy]

i hate Outlaw Players, not people that play Outlaw

the mindset is what matters

[gaunt phoenix]

On ptr yea

[deft gazelle]

damn

[winter cave]

But respects to zac, his complaining is making all of its compatriots including myself proud.

[stiff hawk]

As it should be

[winter cave]

Never seen somebody rants like he does

[late swallow]

Cumpatriot?

[desert tendon]

Fk zac

[jagged ivy]

i mean, it is true that outlaw is in a extremely akward spot for a long time

[desert tendon]

Noone like zac

[jagged ivy]

and i dont know what they could change without fully revamping its playstyle

[deft gazelle]

is it trolling to play hidden opportunity then or

[desert tendon]

Delete outlaw

[gaunt phoenix]

It's not horrifically terrible but it's not great

[desert tendon]

Give it double crossbow

[gaunt phoenix]

It depends on our tuning overall

[deft gazelle]

blizzard can pry hidden opportunity from my cold dead hands

[gaunt phoenix]

if outlaw kinda sucks then playing a build that further sucks is kinda trolling

[winter cave]

I mean it's an unsolvable problem, the gameplay can be fun and is unique, but it is strongly tied to this flat dmg profile. And the flat dmg profile does not fit how the game works.

[wintry solar]

Witch hunter spec when

[deft gazelle]

yeah fair

still dunno if i'm gonna level my rogue. waiting for the day hidden opportunity is not troll i guess

[jagged ivy]

ye, kinda what i mean

its a weird issue, and no matter what they do, somebody WILL be unhappy about it

[winter cave]

So at this point a full rework, and by that I don't mean a rework like they just did for DK lol, might be warranted even though a part of me will be sad to see this iteration of outlaw go

[wintry solar]

They should just turn their frown upside down

[fluid iron]

@vivid vessel a boss where it wasent up the whole time, a lil bit more balanced

i shall not show max percentile

[proven ocean]

back when finishers did finisher dmg

[gaunt phoenix]

legion a throwback

[proven ocean]

and not builder dmg

[fluid iron]

this is too funny

let the rogue be in the add group the entire time

[proven ocean]

ye but he had an amp

so

[fluid iron]

just keep him alive

[random stirrup]

SL destro has some similar stuff in sotfo from some Chinese group giving their lock 60 PIs

[proven ocean]

desolate host was a w.e boss kinda

[mighty pivot]

that day was the season that is now almost over

[random stirrup]

Back when multiple pi didn’t brick your log

[fluid iron]

it was yeah, but its funny would sub could do if you allowed it

similar to how you played around it in keys certain seasons

[deft gazelle]

oh rip mb mb

i just came back to the game like 3 weeks ago lmao

[proven ocean]

iloved how sub was sub tho

[vivid vessel]

I think that's basically how outlaw add damage looks on that boss that lihivium boss next tier

[proven ocean]

like

now specs have no identity

[deft gazelle]

well

[proven ocean]

sin has execute i guess thats good still but like

[deft gazelle]

the next day that hidden opportunity is not troll i guess

[proven ocean]

sub and outlaw

have nothing

u can argue outlaw has good cleave dmg

[vivid vessel]

Which is like

[proven ocean]

but sub has nothing at all

[fluid iron]

i miss legion sub m+

[vivid vessel]

Unfortunate

[fluid iron]

that shit was fun

[proven ocean]

ye

[vivid vessel]

Cause it's legit just pad on adds that have damage amp

[jagged ivy]

oh, so you can use the boomkin excuse

[vivid vessel]

Buddy Boomie has been meta in m+ for legit 10 tiers in a row

I dont think they have suffered from their niche

[proven ocean]

boomkins deserve better

[inland acorn]

Professional sandbaggers

[proven ocean]

buff boomkins

[jagged ivy]

they will still cry 24/7 about it

boomkin bad? cry that they are bad outside of mass aoe until buffs

boomkin good? cry that they only look good because of "insert council fight of the tier" and are actually giga weak and need buffs

repeat until the sun goes out

[desert tendon]

i meaaaaaaaaan, this is just a boss where anyone would reroll sub without being close to full gear cuz it was just better

[tropic zephyr]

They're the real "it gets good in +20" class

They're kind of the reverse law

Everybody thinks law is broken cause they see people breaking the meters in +10

And everybody thinks boomie is bad cause they see them doing tank damage in +10

[proper bear]

when's the next ptr buffs dropping, anyone know what day they are?

[vivid vessel]

It's usually Thursday night

But

They have been dropping random notes lately

[random stirrup]

Boomie doesn’t even do tank dmg in 10s

They are just bad

[vivid vessel]

Tuesday sorry

Not Thursday

I still mess up the days no cap

Crazy work

[mighty pivot]

watch out blizzard will try to hire you

[vivid vessel]

Hehe

[balmy topaz]

Are you still loving bus life zaC

[vivid vessel]

No

I take the train now

[vapid blaze]

i believe it when i see it
every tier
boomie say they are bad

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix the current build on ptr is a release candidate btw

no one said anything but it is

[vapid blaze]

they surely do some more tuning no
we are still missing all the trinket stuff

[vivid vessel]

Surely they do one thing on killing spree

One

They can't just

Drop the spell

Then ask for feedback

Then ignore all the feedback

And do 0 iterations on the spell

Right

[vapid blaze]

they did change it
as in increase cd and damage

[north lintel]

I mean they buffed the spell 3 times, so they did smthg

[vivid vessel]

The increased cd was already planned when they dropped it

[north lintel]

[vivid vessel]

They said that

So ye

They just buffed the damage

Nice

[jagged ivy]

https://tenor.com/view/clueless-gif-24395495

[north lintel]

Idk how they thought that 3+ seconds of channeling some shit

Was a good idea

Plus the fact that you cap CP before the end of it

Flawless design

[jagged ivy]

eh, thats just supposed to be the same thing KS did

but all the other stuff is yikes

[vivid vessel]

its litteraly longer than live ks

and we already complained about loive ks being too long

[north lintel]

You can't kick

You can't cc

[vivid vessel]

i didnt expect a redesign of the ability to be worse ngl

[jagged ivy]

i meant the "downtime" thing, not duration itself

[north lintel]

Imagine channeling a Convoke

Every

40s

[vapid blaze]

longer convoke

[vivid vessel]

more like 30s i think

[vapid blaze]

tbh lust ks feels good 🙂

[vivid vessel]

prolly less actually

[jagged ivy]

that means playing druid and then you deserve that

[vivid vessel]

let me check

[vapid blaze]

gimme pi just for that

[frank finch]

what if it did convoke dmg tho

[north lintel]

Druids are already crying about Convoke haha

"guys i can't press stuff at the open because Convoke"

[jagged ivy]

then it needs like 3x the CD

[glass mortar]

isnt it like every 25s

its every 14s on live i thought

[north lintel]

Yeah on live it's shorter, more like 20 i think

Idk on PTR with the increased CD

[vivid vessel]

25s ye

[north lintel]

Didn't try it

[vivid vessel]

i jsut checked

its 25s interval

[glass mortar]

on live its like 13s interval on ptr its 25s

people underestimate law cdr

u cast this shit constantly

even with a 3m cd now

[north lintel]

Also, isn't it shitty that the new KS does dmg in AoE and not on our prio target ?

[glass mortar]

yes

it simply makes its damage profile worse

[vapid blaze]

thats the worst part

tbh

[glass mortar]

for aesthetics

looks cool when gun shoot random directions brrt

me when i sacrifice portions of my damage profile to look cool

[vapid blaze]

but imagine if it was actually like a MF ult
just hit everything

[glass mortar]

😎

[vivid vessel]

bro

it doesnt even do that anymore

it shoots in front of you

you sacrifice st damage just for fun

[north lintel]

I mean they'll have to rework outlaw at some point i guess. Prio target cleaving specs are such a nightmare to balance (Hello SP )

[vivid vessel]

it doesnt even do the spinning around thing

its just

for fun

[tough salmon]

Zac come home honey

I wanna PTR

[vivid vessel]

ye

im at work

6 30 i told you

[vivid vessel]

no one complains about assa

and it does the same but with funnel

[leaden sonnet]

You mean like hero talents

[vapid blaze]

espec with uncapped aoe that doesnt even have any scaling attached 🙂

[vivid vessel]

no

hero talents got 0 iterations for a whole expac

they are not the same

I cannot compare dog shit to astro dog shit

cant be fair

[leaden sonnet]

Fair enough

[vapid blaze]

i mean trickster atleast got changed once 🙂

[glass mortar]

some peoples hero talents got iteration

just not really ours

next expac for sursies

[gaunt phoenix]

man

[vivid vessel]

no it didnt

[gaunt phoenix]

outlaw so close to peak

but it just

[vivid vessel]

the feint thing never got released

[gaunt phoenix]

doesnt get enough

[vivid vessel]

yep

every season

jsut cause they cant just

work

for more than 5 min

[jagged ivy]

did they rework dark ranger once or twice

[vivid vessel]

rework something and add some dogshit to take its place

rework the most dogshit thing every tier and add another one in its place

no iterations ever

blizzard designers

[glass mortar]

dark ranger was twice i think

pack leader twice

sentinal just minor rejigs

[vivid vessel]

idk

i wanted to drop another forum feedback

but

[glass mortar]

yea im very very dissapointed with this kspree

i was so excited on day 1 too

[vivid vessel]

i said all i wnated to say already

jsut nothing changed

[glass mortar]

like it was dogshit but it was way better then lives kspree so we had the foundation to try some iteration on

[gaunt phoenix]

i'm still looking forward to fatebound

[glass mortar]

then we never iterated

me when i dont iterate one time

someone archive that forum thread so we can just repost literally every bit of feedback for 12.0

[wintry solar]

Yeh don't do that. It's a setup for failure.

[glass mortar]

[balmy spade]

what trinkets look the best next ssn boys

[vivid vessel]

just come back when season drops

no point

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah I ain't really looked at gear

[balmy spade]

asking for ptr

wanted to do some gaming

cba reading through all of the trinkets rn

i got you gamers for that

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

Use netherprism with a vanish window after kir and coup

or if it's capped for some reason idk

[balmy spade]

ill just bind it on vanish for now

[gaunt phoenix]

that might bug out subterfuge

breaking vanish with trinkets

they fixed some of them but idk about netherprism

[waxen scarab]

they fixed the set bug?

[gaunt phoenix]

set bug?

[waxen scarab]

yea the set was bugged no?

[gaunt phoenix]

which one

[wintry solar]

Were either of them bugged?

[glass mortar]

i dont remember set bugs, did u mean 2set delay in second unseen blade proc

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster 4pc affects the first coup rather than the second

but that doesn't mean anything

[glass mortar]

and that i guess but it doesnt change the gameplay

[vivid vessel]

1 sec delay

[waxen scarab]

idk the one max talked about

i forgot tbh

[glass mortar]

was he talking about how blizzard made one of our bugs into a tier set bonus?

thats what trickster 4set is

[balmy spade]

last noob question, is there a vendor for weapons and rings/neck on ptr too?

[waxen scarab]

ooh yeye

[quaint mauve]

i hate on use trinkets with this spec

[vivid vessel]

pvp

[quaint mauve]

usually on other classes i have em macro to my cds

but yeah…

[glass mortar]

outlaws not a spec for lazy players

what can we say

💅

[vivid vessel]

im actually so disapointed we are going into s3 with a worse spec

in all regards

we just dont die anymore

idk man

[glass mortar]

u dont die anymore to kspree

[frank finch]

wanna see outlaw get gapped

[hybrid crown]

I like how damage proc and on use trinkets are weirdly good for outlaw

[glass mortar]

all it cost u was ur damage profile

[frank finch]

tune into casual

[vivid vessel]

I don't even care about the damage profile the gameplay is just worse

New ks is worse

[balmy topaz]

I mean they can make KS act the same it's very easy for the to do it

[vivid vessel]

Tier set is trash

Everything bad

[balmy topaz]

What's the s2 vs s3 variance difference

[hybrid crown]

The bis trinket list is always so wonky for outlaw. It was fun killing mugzee hearing people say like man that thug trinket looks kinda underwhelming, but actually it's bis for outlaw lol

[balmy topaz]

I feel like it's a big dff

[vapid blaze]

that execute trinket seems so shit no?

[vivid vessel]

no

it does like 2.5% of your damage in keys

which is idk

its low but thats the number

for a trinket

[vapid blaze]

isnt it a crit stat trinket

[vivid vessel]

in 2025

[vapid blaze]

so no main stat

[vivid vessel]

no

[vapid blaze]

i think the on-use damage one was fine too 😮

[vivid vessel]

@gaunt phoenix i actually just remembered

i lied

they did iteration on tier set

they actually made them worse

remember how that fatebound talent use to trigger on next finisher

so they changed it so it trigger on adr cast instead

so now it break stealth + doesnt even work unless you use a macro

instead of just working like it did before

[vapid blaze]

wdym use a macro?

[vivid vessel]

Ys

Most people don't know that

It doesn't matter cause we don't play fatebound

[vapid blaze]

wait what is broken with it
do you need a target macro for it

[vivid vessel]

But if you ADR from stealth the talent that makes your stuffs from stealth give more coins or whatever doesn't work

So you need a cancel aura stealth macro

^^

[vapid blaze]

huh

when do you cancel aura then?
before ar?

[vivid vessel]

yep

[vapid blaze]

so you dont get subterfuge then or what

[vivid vessel]

you do

fortunatly

im starting to wonder if the only way to get these devs to do any bit of work is to shame them on wowehad im ngl

[vapid blaze]

ah cause you leave it naturally

[late swallow]

i think the cancelaura is a great feature tbh

more engaging gameplay

[vapid blaze]

yeah cause its 100% passive cause you macro it to ar no?

[frank finch]

but guy said never again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[vivid vessel]

Ye

Unlucky

We used our yearly dev coin

You get one fix per year

For that you need to drop an article on WOWHEAD telling them how shit they are

And maybe they react cause they get shamed by their boss

[frank finch]

i think we used our once for forever coin

[vivid vessel]

I need to become a shareholder actually

[late swallow]

i thought outlaw was doing really well on ptr?

[vivid vessel]

How much money do I need

[late swallow]

didn't zeross say that outlaw was super strong?

[vivid vessel]

Ye it's op on ptr

Also I'm not even talking about that

But ye outlaw is very op on ptr

(not even the best rogue spec)

[late swallow]

zac the tour is 17km away from the top of mount ventoux

god I wish I was in france rn

[vivid vessel]

(not sure it's even in the top 2 of rogue specs)

[uncut zephyr]

easily top 3 rogue spec

[frank finch]

being for real or?

[vivid vessel]

Ye very real

[late swallow]

[vivid vessel]

Black

See it that way

[frank finch]

dont mislead a zac cult memeber plz

[late swallow]

the gameplay is bad, but it's super strong and OP

[vivid vessel]

Outlaw might be worse than sub

How does that makes you feel like

[frank finch]

so liek every tier

[vapid blaze]

mount ventoux is very nice indeed

[vivid vessel]

im talking m+

[late swallow]

they already started the climb

[frank finch]

yea its jover

[vapid blaze]

paris is better tho
viewing experience

[late swallow]

paris is dirty, smells like ass, and full of immigrants

[vivid vessel]

hm

[late swallow]

french countryside is omega comfy

[glass mortar]

outlaws still in my top 5 rogue specs so

[vapid blaze]

yeah but if you are on mount ventoux
you just sit on a mountain the entire day in the heat

[glass mortar]

itll be fine

[vapid blaze]

kinda sucks

[frank finch]

im hoping some of these cd trinkets get nuked, it will bring down some of these specs

[vivid vessel]

[frank finch]

i need something to cope on

[late swallow]

are you gonna prog as sub or sin this tier?

[thorn river]

Wait, sub>outlaw in M+ 😱

[vivid vessel]

like every tier

im gonna prog as sub

i dont even need to look at tuning anymore

[frank finch]

well

u know sub tier is getting nerfed

[late swallow]

progging as sub is pretty based and high T

[frank finch]

so lets see about that

[vapid blaze]

u could be padding on some bosses as outlaw tho

[vivid vessel]

ye hopefully they hit outlaw tier at the same time

cause outlaw is so op

[frank finch]

i dont like this zac

when zac starts sounding like zeross

[mighty pivot]

+5% ST -4% BF incoming

[frank finch]

its over

[late swallow]

i don't even know what the new opener is for outlaw

but according to zac, it's omega ass

unironically over

[wintry solar]

That 5% goes straight to Sinister Strike btw

[frank finch]

30 % buff to ambush

[vivid vessel]

[wintry solar]

Blacks playing with fire

[glass mortar]

ngl a 30% buff to ambush would go hard

because HOs so behind it wouldnt even buff outlaw

[mighty pivot]

nah shiv too

[glass mortar]

it would probably just make it so kir isnt even stronger

could u imagine the zac doomer arc

[vivid vessel]

wont happen

release candidate weran

[frank finch]

that might be the last straw for zac

[vivid vessel]

too late for rogue

[glass mortar]

release candidate means jackshit for tuning

[late swallow]

if they buff HO, we'll hear about a van driving into blizz HQ

[glass mortar]

but yea ksprees pretty doomed

and tier

F

[vapid blaze]

honestly we need some t1 style vans

[wintry solar]

Ghostly Strike initial hit

[glass mortar]

its k 12.0 waiting room

[vivid vessel]

ye i know every tier we cope till the last day

[glass mortar]

well wdym there will absolutely be tuning after thisd

it wont necessarily be on us tho

[vivid vessel]

not for outlaw

[frank finch]

yea thats why ho is our only hope

[wintry solar]

X.2 patches generally means a better game has been announced so we'll just play until said game comes out until Midnight.

[gaunt phoenix]

skyblivion

[wintry solar]

Killing Floor 3 comes out Friday

[red zinc]

season 3 been the best season of the last like

2 expansions

[wintry solar]

I hope they got Demon Hunter for their soundtrack again

[red zinc]

Last season is a better way to put it i guess

Cause nyalotha also goated

[vivid vessel]

i was right btw

[wintry solar]

Are you counting the mini season at the end?

[vivid vessel]

im always right tho

[near rock]

https://imgur.com/1nUZrGo

[vivid vessel]

noob dont @ me

[frank finch]

yea i need that gif for my collection

[vivid vessel]

You can prog on your dogshit spec

[frank finch]

ty

[vivid vessel]

Bro gonna get to the last 2 bosses with downtime and damage amp and delete himself

Get owned bozo!

[near rock]

its when its darkest that you must have the most faith

[stiff hawk]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/124169701881282560/1110305168328765440/6an3o7.gif

[vivid vessel]

is your pfp that guy that leveled his wow character alone? without getting boosted

i respect him very much

[near rock]

yeah he's the goat

no boosting for sure

all hard work

[vivid vessel]

and he did that all alone

crazy work man

[vital wave]

so you are going to prog in sub for all bosses @vivid vessel ?

[frank finch]

[gaunt phoenix]

prob depends on boss as always

[vivid vessel]

Yep

Nope

[frank finch]

zac is strict with that

[tropic zephyr]

Sub

[frank finch]

no outlaw wep not playing at start

[mighty pivot]

no way he doesn't outlaw the pad boss

[vivid vessel]

I prog too early to be able to do a boss as outlaw because I don't have outlaw weapon

[frank finch]

LOL see

[vivid vessel]

Since I'm upping daggers

So it's literally impossible

[vital wave]

you will craft daggers asap ?

[vivid vessel]

Idk about craft I think there is a dagger on second boss

I probably kill second boss then craft

If I don't get a dagger

[vapid blaze]

honestly im itching to play outlaw
just to padd everyhwere

[glass mortar]

theres almost every weapon type dropping from first 3 bosses iirc

makes crafting weapons a bit awk

[vapid blaze]

are there ANY special weapons for the rogues this tier?

[gaunt phoenix]

dont tihnk so

[balmy topaz]

Haste vers wep off last boss

[gaunt phoenix]

also nightfall weapon will not really survive

it's technically on par for a while

[balmy topaz]

That'll get outscaled from +10 drops I bet

[vivid vessel]

my best bet is craftiung a weapon because i dont drop one first week, then dropping a dagger and an outlaw weapon the week after so i can level up both for free

then i can potentially play outlaw

[mighty pivot]

it was like 1-2% behind a 710 offhand for me

[vivid vessel]

(thats what happened this tier)

[gaunt phoenix]

ye

[vivid vessel]

still couldnt play outlaw tho

[wintry solar]

There will be another event weapon dw

[daring oxide]

wait what are you crafting first

dagger?

[wintry solar]

Nvm. We're not due for another for a while.

[vivid vessel]

ye?

[daring oxide]

okies

hmm

[balmy topaz]

Sub bozo

[daring oxide]

like

[vivid vessel]

unless i drop from 2nd boss i gues

[daring oxide]

how strong is sub really

[vivid vessel]

swhich in this case its over for outlaw i think

[balmy topaz]

There are a lot of dmg amps

In raid

[daring oxide]

i see

[balmy topaz]

Outlaw I think tho

[daring oxide]

that lines up perfect with sub?

[balmy topaz]

Will be decent

Idk actually

[vital wave]

why can't play outlaw ?

[vivid vessel]

Even if it doesn't line up and there is no damage amp bro

[balmy topaz]

Idk how they line up

[vivid vessel]

Sub does litteraly

Infinite more st

Than outlaw

[daring oxide]

i see

[balmy topaz]

HoF guild would cus hit cock off

[daring oxide]

maybe outlaw has tuning coming again

tonight

[balmy topaz]

if he played outlaw

[vivid vessel]

Ye right

More bf nerf

[daring oxide]

😦

[balmy topaz]

Exactly

[vivid vessel]

So we cleave at 10%

[balmy topaz]

tuning

[near rock]

idk bro I got HoF progging as outlaw

just put your foot down

[vivid vessel]

And people can gaslight me into thinking it doesn't matter

[daring oxide]

legend

[vivid vessel]

Cause our st got buffed

[gaunt phoenix]

no more raid tested so they are done tuning until heroic week

[daring oxide]

this guy is a true outlaw

[balmy topaz]

Bf just needs to be reverted

[mighty pivot]

https://tenor.com/view/dr-doom-doom-death-battle-vs-debate-gif-27228804

[balmy topaz]

And KS change

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/cringe-gif-24107071

[balmy topaz]

Also change FTH so it's only 1 Talent