outlaw

[vivid vessel]

washed up tho

but on live i gap anyone

so

[proven ocean]

Meanwhile i login 1 day and beat greg on his enh shaman on outlaw and this guy is saying hes being gapped by randoms

Quite hilarious if u ask me

[cinder relic]

Rogue is worse than BM, MM, Shadow, Balance, FDK, but these specs are literally beyond turbo broken

[pliant wave]

I know, but even our AoE damage was already weak.

[proven ocean]

On 3 consecutive runs too

[cinder relic]

Getting nerfed every week

[proven ocean]

I won against enh

Only last run i lost

[vivid vessel]

ye now its fire mage gg

[proven ocean]

Bu rng and my trinket didnt work

By*

and it was an uncapped dungeon too

Gambit

But its 2025 why not complain 24/7

One day we’ll ascend and complain about complaining

[dim parrot]

Odds this is final tuning pass rogue gets

[proven ocean]

Probably

[cinder relic]

Ofc ptr logs have a lot of asterisks around them. Low sample size, people playing unoptimized stuff, bugs, random other abusing blah blah, but this is what the best specs on Forgeweaver looked like for example.

This is soulhunters

[proven ocean]

Interesting

[dim parrot]

Hmm

[cinder relic]

This is soulbinder

[covert heart]

Theu did nerf those specs today

[cinder relic]

Again, lots of asterisks, but like

[proven ocean]

And top dpser on outlaw was a random NA rogue too btw @cinder relic what a surprise right?

Zac did -2m dps if i remember correctly

[daring pelican]

if i wanna play outlaw in the next season, should i gear up now or when the next season drops

[cinder relic]

Outlaw just got a buff so I mean

can only complain so much imo

[proven ocean]

I checked the list

Someone linked it before

[covert heart]

While other specs got nailed today

[proven ocean]

I did 2m cuz i was afk

Mid fight

[novel socket]

can you link the sheet pls?

[dim parrot]

Tbf outlaw needed a buff so it was just a matter of meeting expectations or not

[proven ocean]

It didnt need buffs if u looked at raid

Hes just perma coping

[pliant wave]

What I’m worried about is that this might be the last buff Outlaw gets.

[proven ocean]

And hes mad because he doesnt agree

[dim parrot]

Uhm no I only watch petko vids..

[proven ocean]

It is what it is

[haughty wigeon]

It’s ptr syndrome

People see bad blue post

[proven ocean]

Then cringes out saying its my fault

[haughty wigeon]

So spec is ruined

[proven ocean]

[haughty wigeon]

Spec not doing double the damage of the next then it’s not good

Obvi

[cinder relic]

Can you be happy for once in ur life

I'm being so fr

[red zinc]

Just dm’d solo

Im rejoicing

[cinder relic]

The spec just got buffed, and your first reaction is to be cynical

[haughty wigeon]

The only real thing outlaw needs now

Is

[proven ocean]

Outlaw looks rly food ngl

[covert heart]

Either way imma be playing outlaw because its fun so it workout for me

[proven ocean]

Good*

[haughty wigeon]

Ks duration reduction

But overal

[cinder relic]

Why does a spec get buffed and multiple peoples reaction is

[haughty wigeon]

Spec is very solid rn

[proven ocean]

Those numbers look promising

[cinder relic]

"Oh man :( this sucks :( what if this is the last buff we get :("

Ppl have said this EVERY WEEK btw

"This is the last balance patch they are leaving us in the dust"

[haughty wigeon]

Guy

[cinder relic]

Like holy fuck

AH

[haughty wigeon]

Guy

[cinder relic]

[haughty wigeon]

This community needs

Bfa and sl guy

This

[proven ocean]

And i even won against greg on his enh sham hes 4k io on live who plays all roles btw @cinder relic

[haughty wigeon]

Right here

[proven ocean]

On gambit uncapped dungeon

[covert heart]

I am happy with the buff because we got one.

[proven ocean]

Full aoe

I won 3 times

[haughty wigeon]

Botw vs meme beam

[proven ocean]

Lost 1 cuz my trinket didnt work

And that was pre buffs

[red zinc]

I sabotaged his trinket

[proven ocean]

Linked all the details here

[ocean locust]

as outlaw or asas?

assa*

[cinder relic]

For raid? My money is on sub

[proven ocean]

I think the trinket didnt even work on all runs

[cinder relic]

For keys? Tossup for sin/otl imo

[tight egret]

Are any of those damage amp fights? I thought sub would be a bit higher on the rogue side.

[covert heart]

I have noticed that outlaw players complain more than survival and that spec is usually dogshit

[ocean locust]

shush man

[proven ocean]

Shushing

[cinder relic]

Forgeweaver is but u gotta remember ppl are just playing the game wrong on PTR still when it comes to CD usage

[red zinc]

ross

if uh

[ocean locust]

🙏

[cinder relic]

Like I was full sending CDs on pillars just to phase the bosses properly

But on a real raid night, I'm not doing that

[red zinc]

the dungeon journal stuff about dimensius is true and you get an instant 15s damage burst phase after some rp/cinematic

can assa even set up dots fast enough

To do their burst

[proven ocean]

No

It cant

[vivid vessel]

Doesn't matter it's a sub tier Timmy

[proven ocean]

Unless we can pre setup bleeds then no

Our dps will be completely useless on that amp

[red zinc]

Ok cuh

[proven ocean]

Sin should still outweigh sub on most fights

Easily

Not even close imo

[red zinc]

submissive and breedable tier

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

last 2 bosses ahve damage amps

[proven ocean]

Idk how they buffed sin i think its way stronger than sub atm

[ocean locust]

meh tbh sub is always the safer pick for prog because of verse, but this is the first tier this season where assa might be actually competitive for a bit

[vivid vessel]

sub does damage

easy enough

also

when was the last time it wasnt a sub tier

[proven ocean]

?

Sin dmg is more scripted than sub

[cinder relic]

Eh, I don't think so for a few reasons.

Mainly the fact that damage amps exist a lot this tier and having so much damage concentrated into CDs will be a huge boon, especially when the tuning between the two overall is super tight.

Other factor is that DSM legit seems like a nightmare for sin to juggle in these encounters. Forgeweaver being unable to target swap to the add he spawns is a liability, same goes for swapping to pillars, sub can at least commit a dance to help pillars, sin needs to setup so much even ignoring DSM. Same can be said for DH boss, the dragon boss, probably dimascus too but ofc that tbd

[proven ocean]

Ye amps might be a big deal for sub but for example the spider boss its super huge on sin

I gapped all classes on ptr

Legit gap

[ocean locust]

Oof

[proven ocean]

Execute is too strong

[ocean locust]

Might be a play both in prog angle

[cinder relic]

Being able to move even shit like dances to help with adds will matter a lot on prog. Remember OAB early prog for example

I mean yeah duh u should learn how to play rogue not "sin" "sub" or "Outlaw"

[proven ocean]

And thats rly crazy if u ask me ^

And we get another buff so

That’ll be funny

But

[dim parrot]

They can’t

[proven ocean]

Is really weird to me

[ocean locust]

Just need more ST

[dim parrot]

The talent tree won’t allow it rn

[indigo token]

unfortunately i really dislike playing sub and i dont like sin in st

[ocean locust]

its a band aid, they'll fix DSM for midnight

rogue rework inc

[dim parrot]

Any good ST buff for m+ would make it too strong in raid

[red zinc]

Wonder if they’ll ever just rip the bandaid man

aura tunings for m+ like for pvp

[proven ocean]

I wouldnt be surprised if they revert the buff

Cuz i think its stronger than sub where the amps dont exist by alot

Or the spider boss

Its super strong there

[cinder relic]

They probs dont

[ocean locust]

would be pretty crazy of them to do that then revert it

we shouldn't look at it between sub/sin... now, sin is almost competitive with frost and bm

[proven ocean]

We have to see numbers eitherway

[ocean locust]

maybe they want that ^^

[cinder relic]

If they nerf it it'd be like, week 1 or 2 lol

[ocean locust]

mm is deadge

[proven ocean]

Idk how bad the other players played but the ppl i played with were very good at the game

Like asuna, drohgoh and few more famous raid guys

[verbal fjord]

damn

[spark forge]

Classic rogue doing good on w1 w2. Then doing medium
Then falling behind until mid patch aura buff

[verbal fjord]

that looks bomb

[ocean locust]

[errant arrow]

Outlaw 10% st buff??? Huge moment

[verbal fjord]

thats actually crazy no ?

[cinder relic]

It good ya

[verbal fjord]

since the meta looks like a meele comb meta imo

[late swallow]

They reverted mystic touch btw

Back to 5

Back into the bin

[verbal fjord]

lol

[vivid vessel]

This monk thing is so weird btw

[verbal fjord]

100%

[errant arrow]

Which is a good thing, monk needs a different raid buff that works better with themselves

[vivid vessel]

Just means they are willing to legit just buff every melee spec by 3% randomly

And then revert it

And it doesn't matter at all

I guess 3% isn't a big number

[red zinc]

3 is a very big number

[vivid vessel]

But like

Isn't it weird

[proven ocean]

8% mystic touch was a nerf to melee’s not a buff

[late swallow]

3 is massive it’s just cold rn

[proven ocean]

Zorthas made a video why it was a nerf to melees and why 5% is better

[verbal fjord]

i think they thought ppl would be fine with the 3% monk buff so they dont need to help other classes

[errant arrow]

The 3% died so we can fly

[proven ocean]

Anyone with a bright mind will know 8% mystic touch is way worse

[red zinc]

zorthas mad cute

[verbal fjord]

true

[late swallow]

I’m dim af

[red zinc]

(Idk how he looks)

[vivid vessel]

no but you get me right

[verbal fjord]

but like

[snow hill]

I despise how true this was for S2.

[verbal fjord]

i love how outlaw get 10% straight buffed

[cinder relic]

I mean I thought the mtouch buff was weird so

[verbal fjord]

and ret looks like this

[vivid vessel]

i think its weird they are willing to "buff" and "nerf" every melee by 3% randomly

ye i agree

[cinder relic]

But like oh well

[snow hill]

FUCK. 🫣

[vivid vessel]

ye i mean it doesnt matter

i just think 3% is a decent enough number to be like

oh weird

they would do that

[red zinc]

Rather s2 than s1

[vivid vessel]

and then undo that

[red zinc]

S2 they didnt touch it

[vivid vessel]

and then ye

[verbal fjord]

they do put love in some classes more than other tbh

[red zinc]

S1 they nerfed it after a strong week 1 when it wouldve fallen off to a mid power level anyway

[red zinc]

Became turbo ass instead

[verbal fjord]

yooooo hahahahahahha

i cannt

[vivid vessel]

i hate hunters

[mighty pivot]

it's way less than 3% for most melee specs because they have split damage not pure physical. Isn't it like 3-4 specs which are almost fully physical?

[verbal fjord]

same bro

same

i hate hunters same as ret paladins

[vivid vessel]

yeye

[cinder relic]

ret is weird because ret is both good, and shit at all points in time

[daring pelican]

at least mages got a stupid hat transmog for the tier set.... 😩 take that mages

[vivid vessel]

the exact number isnt exactly what im arguing about here

just the fact they can randomyl buff half the specs in the game

[vivid vessel]

and undo it

for no reason at all

[verbal fjord]

but like

[vivid vessel]

related to balance

know what i mean or

[verbal fjord]

i dont know why they still buffing mage tho

like they are strong asf rn aswell

[daring pelican]

we gotta take what wins we can... 😔😔😔

[verbal fjord]

true that chef

[snow hill]

LOL! F me that's so true. I could share so many examples of that this season 😆💀

[snow hill]

My hands shake with apprehension. I can't get my hopes up

[verbal fjord]

dh got 0 tuning tho

[vivid vessel]

[snow hill]

Yup

[vivid vessel]

doesnt know

[proven ocean]

For the record

Arcane does 20-30% more dmg than everyone in m+

And it got another aura buff

[snow hill]

Yup

[verbal fjord]

crazy right ?

[proven ocean]

And that 10% mm nerf is not enough

[glass mortar]

did they actually get net buffed

they turbonerfed its tier

[covert heart]

Nerf it another 10

[mighty pivot]

well their reasoning was dumb to begin with - that it gives less raid damage overall. Which ok of course it's the case when physical damage is way less proportionally than magic. But then how do you balance the physical heavy specs around this buff? dunno what they were thinking

[proven ocean]

Pretty sure the tier shit is old and im pretty sure i dont know what im talking about

So i’ll just go to bed

[heavy pollen]

Wasnt it nerf for Arcane? I mean the tier set change

[verbal fjord]

thats what theyve said

[proven ocean]

Idk is it?

[unborn basin]

sooo its a buff or a nerf?

[vivid vessel]

i mean i dont really get this argument either cause not a single buff is the same value anyway

but ye

idk

[glass mortar]

the blue post literally said tier is too big we r nerfing tier and buffing baseline

[vivid vessel]

weird thing

[snow hill]

I don't get their reasoning. Like Pally tank was sitting chill at the pond in 3rd place feeding the ducks not over or under doing anything. Then they come up and nerf it's DMG but don't touch it's survivability.

Yet DH doesn't get touched.
Nonsense...

[mighty pivot]

exactly

[unborn basin]

im confused

[proven ocean]

Oh ue looks like a nerf

[vivid vessel]

ok i read arcane pin

[proven ocean]

But thats weird cuz

Like

Seems neutral now

No?

Still op or

[vivid vessel]

im back

there is no arcane pin

[proven ocean]

Brb sleep anyway

[verbal fjord]

lol

[vivid vessel]

what if

we play outlaw in raid

[lime lake]

[lone crow]

what if

we were rich

[vivid vessel]

ah nvm im stupid

i already forgot

abotu the damage amp

[red zinc]

ks burst crazy

[lone crow]

holy

[red zinc]

nerf outlw burst

[lone crow]

ks burst

[vivid vessel]

bro timmy

wasnt it you

that told me kpop demon hunter

was for noob kids

i watched it

was a banger

[red zinc]

no i said it was fire

[vivid vessel]

also songs are cool

[red zinc]

Not here but

dont think i talked about it with you

[vivid vessel]

ok who said it was a noob movie for childrens

[covert heart]

That was my plan anyways gotta do it for the love of the game

[vivid vessel]

i talked about it a few days ago before watching

[red zinc]

probably zeross

Blame it on zeross

[vivid vessel]

and one of you just said it was for children

i cant read zeross messages

so i doubt that

[red zinc]

the delusion vrazy

[vivid vessel]

im addicted to the songs from the movie now

[red zinc]

hes pretending he has him blocked so hard hes actually blocked

[vivid vessel]

big kpop fan

[red zinc]

[vivid vessel]

bro

i had to install better discord

which was actually hard

cause i had to reinstall discord

it was bugged

i went to great lenghts

[red zinc]

that is

somethin

[vivid vessel]

i wonder why basleine discord doesnt really let you fully block a guy tho

like its just shit

i feel like that could be illegal

[pliant wave]

Is the balance update that just dropped already applied to the PTR? Frost DK still looks strong to me.

[vivid vessel]

surely there is regulations

ye it is

appart from monk thingy

oooh

new priory

i wanna go right

[lone crow]

is there a sim already btw

[vivid vessel]

a sim for a 10% aura buff ?

sounds like you are getting skill issued by math here

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/calculation-cat-gif-26041269

[lone crow]

its never straight 10% anyways

and i havent seen any sims before

[vivid vessel]

ye ok its like

[tight kernel]

Sims out yet for changes

[vivid vessel]

8.9 maybe whatever

what do you want a sim for

[tight kernel]

I need smarter people to tell me how to feel

[vivid vessel]

we have some in tc outlaw

but its just rnadom apl stuffs

with scuffed profiles

[red zinc]

Outlaw itself got better

[tight kernel]

Happiness Zac.. happiness

[vivid vessel]

like nothing to compare with

[red zinc]

Whether thats good enough to compete

Who knows

Judge ptr gameplay

[vivid vessel]

outlaw on ptr is better than last week

thats it

[red zinc]

[tight kernel]

That’s good enough for me

[vivid vessel]

ye

[bright crane]

When’s a pin going up

[covert kestrel]

It was me but I was just asking cause my niece and nephew loved it so I thought it was for kids but I was wrong

[vivid vessel]

ye !

you are wrong !

banger movie

banger songs

[covert kestrel]

Yeah get him!

[vivid vessel]

im a big fan now

i listen to their songs all the time

and i do the dances

[red zinc]

All of the saja boys members

I would

[vivid vessel]

uwu

[tight kernel]

Zac cam when

[lone crow]

i mean

it sims well now i guess

[bright crane]

Zac I always knew u were a kpop girlie

[vivid vessel]

none of the sims in tc research are with the buffs @lone crow

but idk what you are looking for

[vivid vessel]

ye i listen to some

[lone crow]

ye i just added 8.9%

[vivid vessel]

mostly like there is some songs i love

and then i hate kpop in general

i love like 30 kpop songs maybe

rest is all trash garbo

[red zinc]

ptr outlaw with same gear / ilvl outside of tier sets is better than live outlaw on most target counts

but

Other classes got way stronger in comparison

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel so what are these buffs nerfs I ess too busy shopping

[lone crow]

sim wise it isnt too far off to mage rn

with the buffs

[frank finch]

cult leader zac might be wrong we wait for solo sims

[red zinc]

I saw the solo sims

[frank finch]

were o.o

[red zinc]

Early access by sending my toes

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

im not wrong lol

i cant be wrong about a concept

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

nah idk its being cooked they were already ptr favored even though ptr gear was cooked

But like

[sudden fulcrum]

[red zinc]

Even if law got 5% better on aoe

Enhance mightve gotten 50% better

Right

(Not real numbers fyi)

[frank finch]

enhance got nerfed

[vivid vessel]

ye

[red zinc]

naw but thats what zac is saying

[vivid vessel]

now we are back to needing a nerf for mages

but its a diff spec

they change spec every week

[frank finch]

thats the real villan yes

[vivid vessel]

every week a new mage spec emerge

[red zinc]

just gotta see how testing / start of season pans out its uh

[vivid vessel]

better than the other

[red zinc]

Comparative tuning angle

[vivid vessel]

crazy stuffs

[junior coral]

Are we hype?

[keen belfry]

Why didn’t Zac answer my question

[red zinc]

He blocked you too

[junior coral]

About to have a 50 min drive lol, but should I be hype or sad

[vivid vessel]

what was the question

[junior coral]

For 10% buff

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

people disagree with my take

so

im being silenced

[lone crow]

whats ur take

[red zinc]

zac got shadowbanned only I can hear him now

[lone crow]

link me to it

[keen belfry]

!unsilence

[vivid vessel]

my take is

you nerf bf by 10%

once the st is the same as it is every tier

you just are doing 10% less aoe

because raid tuning is always the same you do x st

or whatever

compared to other specs

and then if you just cleave for less

well you do less aoe

thats my take

[red zinc]

I feel like linking that take to the bf thing aint that relevant

[lone crow]

ye u do less aoe but more st aka u do more prio again

[red zinc]

Like say other classes didnt get stronger this would be a great state for outlaw

[lone crow]

is that really bad

idk

dont think so

[vivid vessel]

ok but you will end up being tuned to do similar st

like you wont suddently do 10% higher st than every spec in the game

[cinder relic]

If u look at the aoe bosses that were tested last week, Outlaw wasn't exactly struggling

and these changes are just a buff

[vivid vessel]

ye it wasnt

i mean tbf

i think

pc

[cinder relic]

While the other OP specs all got big nerfs

[vivid vessel]

in raid

well its pc in raid

that talent is crazy

on that bf boss i was legit doing

[red zinc]

pc shouldnt be allowed to exist after the bug fixes idk how it still does

[vivid vessel]

infinite dmaage

while being last boss damage

was funny

but its just pc

and the adds being amped damage

its kinda weird boss for outlaw

[midnight granite]

Wtf why nerfed

[lone crow]

not every class presses st rotation in aoe tho? or wdym, ye some do but they often times still dont do full st dmg

[vivid vessel]

idk how long pc is going to survive

[lone crow]

then u have arcane ofc which is piss broken in that regard

[cinder relic]

well its every boss that was tested was kinda aoe

[vivid vessel]

uh?

[frank finch]

no?

[cinder relic]

Pillar boss, DHs, the one where u run around the room and shoot the orb thru the vials

[vivid vessel]

ok 3 are aoe

?

thats all

rest is all st ?

[cinder relic]

3 of the 4 tested

[vivid vessel]

im confused

there is 8 bosses in raid

also we didnt only test 4

there was 3 nights in a row

of mythic

2

idk

we tested all bosses

litteraly

[bright crane]

If ks is any indicator…

[cinder relic]

All I'm getting at is the aoe bosses, Outlaw looked good, and it just got buffed while its competition got nerfed

[vivid vessel]

idk if i would say it looked good tbf

i was dead last on boss damage

and the add damage was litteraly useless

on these bosses

[dawn talon]

ok but it's like

[vivid vessel]

pc issue tho

[dawn talon]

bf tuning is a BIG thing

and pc is going to need to be nerfed regardless

for us to do relevant st again

[cinder relic]

Well good thing this last buff was focused on buffing its ST

[dawn talon]

so i don't like these changes

[cinder relic]

The changes were a ST buff, and a nerf to aoe, but because of how our ST works, it's a net buff for aoe also

[dawn talon]

yes and i think this is a stupid as fuck way to do it

[cinder relic]

So I mean...

[cinder relic]

..?

[lone crow]

what

[cinder relic]

Outlaw st sucks rn

[lone crow]

how else u have st

[cinder relic]

and its aoe is quite good in raid

[dawn talon]

they have to take pc out back and shoot it

[lone crow]

when st is garbanzo to the moon

[dawn talon]

at some point

bc it's ridiculous

and this pushes that down the line for no reason

[cinder relic]

OUtlaw players when good talent

[vivid vessel]

no i mean like, your st is tuned around raid, they try to tune all specs to do similar st right, but now you are doing 10% less aoe compared to your st

[dawn talon]

i think pc is an overbearing talent for where it is in the tree and in its current state makes tuning our st in a raid with this many aoe encounters completely impossible

so nerf pc and buff our st more if you want to also nerf bf

[vivid vessel]

pc is just a weird af talent

and idk how you tune pc

do you need to tune pc

idk

[cinder relic]

U mfers were bitching for literally a year that PC is a shit talent

Now its good now its 9/11

Just kill me bro

[frank finch]

[vivid vessel]

ojk you lose st to take pc

[lone crow]

that one i legit dont understand either

[vivid vessel]

which is like

makes no sense

to me

[mighty pivot]

also to expand on that, this is an issue they created with so many specs having so much mixed damage. Specs which traditionally had heavy physical dps now have 30-50% magic damage, and specs which had mixed damage now lean towards non-physical even more. How do they expect the monk buff to compete with DH buff if they want them to be equal for whatever reason?

[cinder relic]

Many classes in wow take aoe talents that cost them ST

[vivid vessel]

ok big aoe vs st tho

[cinder relic]

Yes outlaw is the "St spec that cleaves"

[vivid vessel]

low target cleave and st is the same niche

thats where its weird

like when i look at dungeons

everytime i would want more st

i want pc aswell

and when i want more aoe, well pc is less usefull

cause its not low target cleave naymore

[lone crow]

ye pc doing nothing at max target count is sus for sure but i really like that talent idk

at least gives us something unique

[vivid vessel]

I mean i like it

i just think its weird that it compete against its own niche

[violet bison]

How much we betting we get buffed before s3 starts?

[vivid vessel]

outlaw tuning is done i think

[lone crow]

prolly 0

ye

[frank finch]

the only possible buff we see is to ks somehow

[mighty pivot]

there have been buffs each week, no need to doom

[cinder relic]

I could see KS getting another change, maybe, but rogue loosk well positioned

I think other specs are going to continue to get nerfed

[vivid vessel]

ok but they havent touched ks in 5 weeks

like

[mighty pivot]

KS should get some tweaks else they are hard trolling

[frank finch]

yea thats why its our only chance for more buffs

[vivid vessel]

i think they are just hard trolling

its the classic

drop thing on ptr

dont iterate

call it a day

come back and fix 3 tiers later

cause its been dogshit all this time

[keen belfry]

is this how it works? this was basically my question. 10% dmg buff, and less than 10% aoe nerf so gain. nerfing by by 10% is how much of a pure aoe nerf?

[cinder relic]

Its a buff overall

To both ST and aoe

[vivid vessel]

none

[cinder relic]

Slight aoe buff

[vivid vessel]

well

its only a buff cause of deft

[cinder relic]

Like margin of error type buffs

[vivid vessel]

its not a real buff

ye

[cinder relic]

the goal of the change was to buff ST without affected aoe much at all

[keen belfry]

yeah but lets just say you nerf BF by 10%, is that a 10% aoe nerf?

[cinder relic]

its like 0.1% in either direction

[vivid vessel]

its a buff on deft cause bf cast is aoe but also got buffed by the aura

[vivid vessel]

yes

[tidal sequoia]

did we gey a buff ?

[vivid vessel]

but if you aura buff by 10%

[timber knoll]

Aura buff they’re done cooking for us

[vivid vessel]

you do 10% more damage

which is cleaved

[cinder relic]

No

Because IP exists, trinket exists, and then the actual ST you deal Pre flurry

[vivid vessel]

wtf is ip

[keen belfry]

BF is like, 65% of our dmg right on a pull? is that right?

[cinder relic]

Instant poison

[vivid vessel]

ah

[cinder relic]

In the same way a 10% aura buff isn't a 10% damage buff

a 10% bf nerf isn't exactly a 10% aoe nerf

[mighty pivot]

it's also a buff in low target cleave when PC kicks in

[cinder relic]

Idk how much all those extra things amount to in total but yeah

Probs closer to 8, 9

[vivid vessel]

i wonder if outlaw survive week 1

[lone crow]

ah the classic

[vivid vessel]

i mean

[cinder relic]

Is there heroic week this tier?

[vivid vessel]

no

[cinder relic]

then probs

Week two though? diff question

[lone crow]

lets be real friends

[vivid vessel]

i just think pc is an insane talent in term of like

[lone crow]

we all gonna game sub again

[vivid vessel]

looking good on metters

[lone crow]

because we all damn know the later bosses sub looks better

[cinder relic]

Damage amps will amke sub very good this tier

Might be amirdrasil

No lie

[lone crow]

ye

[vivid vessel]

me when its another sub tier

[cinder relic]

Close tuning overall, and having all your damage concentrated in CDs is a huge boon

[vivid vessel]

again and again and again

[keen belfry]

ugh i have to practice sub again?

[cinder relic]

Idk man #subtlety says sub is always bad

And every tier is a sin tier

So maybe learn sin?

[lone crow]

could be worse

[cinder relic]

🍟 👉 👜

[lone crow]

imagine assa

on sub u at least have to think about stuff

[keen belfry]

no lie

did our st need more or less than 10%

the numbers i saw on ptr were funny

i have no clue how strong or weak we were on ptr

i felt like a noodle compared to some specs in the 2 keys i did

[lone crow]

st wise we were atrocious

[cinder relic]

@keen belfry

[keen belfry]

what r those bosses

idk names

pure ST?

[vivid vessel]

hard to say cause top specs were op

[cinder relic]

forgeweaver is pillar guy

[vivid vessel]

and got nerfed

and shit

[cinder relic]

soul hunters is dhs

[keen belfry]

soulhunters sounds aoe to me

i could see forgeweaver being st

[cinder relic]

soulbinder is the boss with the giant room and u had to shoot balls thru the containers

[upbeat tundra]

hey whats whats it like knowing you're going to be hitting a channeling spell that lasts 5 seconds for an entire season]

[cinder relic]

Well good thing it doesn't last 5 seconds

[sudden fulcrum]

it's reduced by haste!!! get owned noob

[upbeat tundra]

https://tenor.com/view/aintnoway-gif-27058877

[frank finch]

learning not to use sc on new ks is gonna feel wierd at the start

[keen belfry]

u shouldve learned it this tier bucko

[vivid vessel]

thats techincally not a dps gain

[sudden fulcrum]

what's it like knowing you are going to be playing LoL instead

[vivid vessel]

idk if its a dps loss depending on how you do it tho

but ye

not rolling is bad

[upbeat tundra]

poe not lol

[sudden fulcrum]

meh PoE is dead to me until they finish PoE2

how is that they haven't finished the story yet

[keen belfry]

i know this is data and data is good but like, this is saying outlaw was 4th best st spec in raid testing?

[upbeat tundra]

i dont know i dont play poe for the story

[keen belfry]

just seems so cap

[cinder relic]

What

[vivid vessel]

thats not st

[keen belfry]

am i unable to read

[cinder relic]

These are aoe bosses

These are cleave based bosses

[keen belfry]

man wtf

[vivid vessel]

you got owned by guy

not reading what you asked for

[keen belfry]

i made a complaint about pure st

[vivid vessel]

actual gg

[keen belfry]

MAN!!!

[vivid vessel]

skill issue on ytour part awang tbf

[cinder relic]

Oh gg

[keen belfry]

I need to focus up

[vivid vessel]

ye

[cinder relic]

I mean yeah the ST was shit

[keen belfry]

no lie
did our st need more or less than 10%
the numbers i saw on ptr were funny
i have no clue how strong or weak we were on ptr
i felt like a noodle compared to some specs in the 2 keys i did

anytone got the answer

[vivid vessel]

From m+

Ye

[cinder relic]

I read i have no clue how strong or weak we were on ptr i felt like a noodle compared to some specs in the 2 keys i did

[vivid vessel]

It needed 10%

[cinder relic]

Not the st part

10% is probs a good start

[keen belfry]

10% enough?

[vivid vessel]

At the very least

[cinder relic]

Might need more tho

[vivid vessel]

Prolly more evenn

Like I look at the st I'm doing in my keys

It's abmysal

[lone crow]

bro

that shit

[tidal sequoia]

so we coocking

[vivid vessel]

But maybe it's cause I'm against op specs right

[lone crow]

was the funniest shit

ive seen in a while

nono

u literally did z dps

st

lmao

[keen belfry]

zac the 2 ptr keys i swear i was just doing live dmg in aoe

like legit live dmg

maybe a lil higher

[vivid vessel]

Ye with 30 more ilvl

I know

[keen belfry]

but nothing that made me feel like i was playing a new tier

[vivid vessel]

That's what I said

[keen belfry]

ok atleast not crazy then

like id blast a pack

and be like

ive done that on a 6 target pull in rookery 🙂

[vivid vessel]

That little goblin guy told me I was coping tho

Now we are at like

[daring oxide]

we only play outlaw

sub is dead

[vivid vessel]

Prolly 20% buff for outlaw

[lone crow]

the fuck

whos goblin guy

[vivid vessel]

Since then

Zeross

[lone crow]

looool

[daring oxide]

@vivid vessel was the recent tuning good?

[vivid vessel]

10% st

[daring oxide]

is that good in your books

or

[keen belfry]

can someone send me a screenshot of m+ ST dmg

[vivid vessel]

Well look vurai

[daring oxide]

am looking

[covert kestrel]

Seeing zac and weran have a whole conversation and Zeross trying to join in and just getting ignored was top tier today

[vivid vessel]

They didn't touch ks

Once in 4 weeks

[daring oxide]

i see

[vivid vessel]

Like an actual

[daring oxide]

thats sadge

[vivid vessel]

Iteration

So I'm not happy no

[lime lake]

bc ks is perfect

one and done

ez iteration

[daring oxide]

Realz can you confirm

is KS no more changes?

[vivid vessel]

Ye they legit one banged ks

How good are these devs

I wish I was as good at my job ngl

No iteration needed

[daring oxide]

well at least KS does 10% more damage now

with this aura buff

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[daring oxide]

very happy

[vivid vessel]

[daring oxide]

what did u think of the BF nerf 😦

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/youre-welcome-obama-walks-out-kick-door-gif-11973198

[vivid vessel]

No you know what this buff does actually that is funny

It's a buff to deft technically

[daring oxide]

GG

[vivid vessel]

So it increase the gap between ho and kir

[daring oxide]

i love deft

so that makes me happy

ok good

KIR supremacy

[vivid vessel]

Haha

[daring oxide]

get fucked HOes

[vivid vessel]

Ye

[tender wedge]

Can’t a man love both equally

[daring oxide]

nah

!roles

!role

hmm

it broke

[vivid vessel]

No

Wait

Vrai

What's your icon

I see ambush

[daring oxide]

yes

i need to change

[vivid vessel]

Ok

[daring oxide]

i realised i never chnaged it

[vivid vessel]

Remove it wtf

[daring oxide]

for like months

but how

!role

no work

[vivid vessel]

Idk man figure it out

[daring oxide]

/roles

[vivid vessel]

You are smart

[daring oxide]

!rolesssssssssss

AHHHHHHHHH

@gloomy coral how do i change my roles please ❤️

[vivid vessel]

[daring oxide]

i might get muted fuk

[gloomy coral]

Bro

[lone crow]

@vivid vessel

[gloomy coral]

what do you mean "HoW dO i ChAnGe My RoLeS"

[daring oxide]

SoRrY 😦

i figured it out though

checked pins and scrolled down for 10mins and found it

sorry for the hassle

[gloomy coral]

Its ok, if it was zeross you would have been muted

[keen belfry]

can you please not ping @gloomy coral

[daring oxide]

glad to hear that 🙂

[vivid vessel]

Yep

[daring oxide]

ok sorry @keen belfry

[keen belfry]

thank you @daring oxide

[daring oxide]

you're welcome @keen belfry

[vivid vessel]

Np

[keen belfry]

gonna log into ptr with our 10% dmg buff but do same dmg as live

brb

[daring oxide]

i think they'll do a 25% KS speed up buff next week

i have actual faith

[nova basin]

you think we will notice the bf nerf much or the 10% global buff will help carry us in aoe too?

[keen belfry]

what ive been told its ST buff, aoe net neutral

[nova basin]

thanks

[daring oxide]

well yes

[torpid fiber]

You can do the maths

[daring oxide]

need a @gaunt phoenix confirmation pin though

[nova basin]

hard to do maths when it involves multiple targets no? 😛

[indigo token]

whos ready for aura nerfs

[nova basin]

i let clever people do the maths

[torpid fiber]

It's a very slight bf damage nerf (0.5% or something) but I suspect if you're playing precise cuts it's a buff

[daring oxide]

we only get aura buffs

going forward

no aura nerfs

[torpid fiber]

The maths is 1.1*0.45

[keen belfry]

can someone tell me why this is wrong in my head:
BF is like 65ish percent on aoe pulls? sometimes more sometimes less, why is a 10% nerf to 65% of our dmg cancelling out 10% aura buff in aoe?

[daring oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-umm-chile-anyways-gif-2259936602289648860

[keen belfry]

explain why this isnt making sense in my head

[torpid fiber]

no ur right it's very close

1.1*0.9 < 1*1 is the reason bf damage is lowered

[keen belfry]

huh

[daring oxide]

huh

[torpid fiber]

I.e. squares are always maximal area for a given side length

[daring oxide]

ok goodnight

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel ur a math guy explain

[torpid fiber]

I'm also a math guy I just explained wtf

[keen belfry]

yeah ur explanation was like you were teaching other math kids

stfu vevvev

[torpid fiber]

ok true

[keen belfry]

ur done

[vivid vessel]

I'm not, I'm litteraly in bed half asleep rn

So do math alone

[torpid fiber]

Me rn

[keen belfry]

i read that as like our aoe get nerfed then by 65% of 10% so 6.5

so our aoe get buffed by 3.5

ST by 10

thats how i read it

but idk how these numbers actually work in wow

[torpid fiber]

nah the changes are base bf cleave went from 50->45% but we got a 10% aura buff

So probably with even gm no pc it's a bf damage buff

[keen belfry]

yeah so aoe buff too?

[glass mortar]

@keen belfry it's not the same as multiplying ur bf damage by 0.9

It's the amount cleaved to bf going down

The base %

[keen belfry]

why does this make no sense in my head

[nova basin]

Before Patch:
Single-target ability hits main target for 100% × 1.0 = 100% of base damage

4 additional targets hit for 50% of that = 50% × 4 = 200% extra damage

Total per attack: 100% + 200% = 300%

After Patch:
All damage increased by 10%, so main hit is 100% × 1.1 = 110%

Cleave damage is now 45% of the main hit:
110% × 0.45 = 49.5% per extra target
→ 49.5% × 4 = 198% cleave

Total per attack: 110% + 198% = 308%

So per single-target ability during Blade Flurry:

Before: 300% total

After: 308% total

[torpid fiber]

Ye it's more bc of prio damage but the strictly bf damage is less

Still pretty trivially a buff

[keen belfry]

ok that kinda makes more sense

ty

so like

3% buff to aoe? in 4 target?

does that change pull count to pull count?

[torpid fiber]

treat it as 10% buff to prio target dmg and 0 change to cleave

[keen belfry]

like, pc stuff

the prio target buff is good

[nova basin]

+2.67% right?

[stray star]

chat gpt says so

[keen belfry]

yeah thats number i got

[torpid fiber]

u lose damage to non-prio targets even in that example but like

Not much

and gm+pc should make it basically not matter

[keen belfry]

yeah idc about non prio target number i just care abotu the 308% vs 300%

so a lil udner 10% st buff, 2.67% ish aoe buff then?

[torpid fiber]

Nah it's exact 10% St excepting weird aura buff shit

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw message solo simmed 8T and you can compare the breakdowns there if you haven't seen it already

[keen belfry]

interesting

[mighty pivot]

that's at a target count where PC doesn't kick in. The more PC kicks in the more you gain in AoE/cleave

[keen belfry]

i swear my brain doesnt work when i enter outlaw discord idk why

[lime lake]

thats a requirement

[keen belfry]

45% at 8
50% at 7
55% at 6
60% at 5
65% at 4
70% at 3
75% at 2

new bf dmg for pc ya? and how does flawless form work? its additive? so just add 25% to these numbers?

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw message see my post earlier about BF before and after

[wintry solar]

We get another ptr build

But

It's just one line

[stray star]

but the question is, is this 10% enough to have a better ST vs other classes?

[wintry solar]

That says

[bright crane]

finally

[wintry solar]

"Greenskin Wickers buffs your next pistol shot by 100%. (Was 200%)"

And that's all for 11.2

[keen belfry]

ty, is flawless additive tho?

[wintry solar]

Until prepatch

[mighty pivot]

nimble & GM are multi, PC is additive

[nova basin]

not sure how much i trust this math but

[keen belfry]

i did not know we did 100% dmg to all 4 targets

thats so sick

pc is actually crazy

[torpid fiber]

I think it's pretty obvious why

[mighty pivot]

the formula when all BF buffs are active is: (0.5 + ((7 - cleave targets) * 0.05)) * 1.2 * 1.25 the first value will be 0.45 if the change goes through

[torpid fiber]

(Y'all are great but also I think stupidity is infectious. It's the same reason how when solo shows up suddenly everyone here is smart)

[keen belfry]

i swear im not dumb

but sometimesi am

[wintry solar]

I am

[mighty pivot]

we know

[wintry solar]

I'm not but I choose to be

Because

[mighty pivot]

hmmm

[wintry solar]

We got enough nerds in here

[torpid fiber]

I'm a genius but I play outlaw to turn my brain off

[keen belfry]

so ur telling me even with GS on your main target

you are doing 5% more dmg to off target

if all buffs

in 2 target cleave

[wintry solar]

Super funnel

[mighty pivot]

if all your damage cleaves

[nova basin]

its why you do more prio damage to the second boss in ML by targeting the empowered add than actually funneling into the boss itself

[keen belfry]

i knew we did more to off target, i didnt know we did 120% to off target

holy moly

[torpid fiber]

it's crazy shit, yeah

[mighty pivot]

be aware that GM uptime will drop without s2 4p tier, and GM is essential to do that extra cleave in 2 target situations

[keen belfry]

yeah only 10% multiplicative tho? not huge deal

and gues swhat

KIR

boom.

[mighty pivot]

it's 20% multi

[keen belfry]

out of date?

[mighty pivot]

the tooltip says 10%, but it's 20% multi (which is the same value for the base 50%)

[keen belfry]

oh increases 50 by 10 is 20 multi

ok

right?>

[mighty pivot]

yes it only makes a difference with additional BF buffs

[torpid fiber]

oh huh does this mean they'll have to update the tool tip after the bf nerf

bc now it's 9% smh smh

[mighty pivot]

I didn't check how GM behaves after the BF nerf, I will check tomorrow but I wouldn't expect any differences there

[gaunt tundra]

wait what the fuck hahahhaa

[frail veldt]

It's close but yeah it's been this way all season

[gaunt tundra]

i'm so lost what the fuck is going on with the bf change

[torpid fiber]

Buff ST but not MT

[gaunt tundra]

isee

[wintry solar]

HO still dead prolly

[sharp hinge]

please dont tell me well play bugged kir

[white marten]

Kir looking like the move

[sharp hinge]

bruh

[frail veldt]

How's it bugged

[sharp hinge]

they need to fix the bugs first

[frail veldt]

What'd I miss

[sharp hinge]

isnt there a bug with coin flipping

[frail veldt]

Wouldn't that affect both

How would that be KiR specific

[sharp hinge]

HO more managable i guess

[frail veldt]

?

[keen belfry]

draco cooking rn

[cinder relic]

st buff aoe neutral

[indigo token]

at least until we somehow get nerfed

cause of phys god comp

[cinder relic]

How tf do I rewire this discords brain to stop being so cynical for no fuckin reason

[keen belfry]

does this math make sense @cinder relic you seem like m ath guy

[sudden fulcrum]

never gonna happen. every class server is like this

[cinder relic]

The spec just got a buff and I swear half the comments are some variation of "WE ARE GOING TO GET NERFED" or "THIS ISNT ENOUGH"

https://tenor.com/view/the-friend-who-like-anything-gif-17239045688991704977

[toxic star]

nah

[sudden fulcrum]

i think a lot of people who play WoW are just like mega depressed and thinking positively is not possible for them

[cinder relic]

Uh sure

Looks like a lot of numbers

.

[keen belfry]

i trust the sim more than the math

i dont get wow numbers

[cinder relic]

facts

[keen belfry]

cuz that math says we simply do 2.67% more dmg in aoe

sims says no

OH

it says that cuz it was 4 targets

i bet thats right

then

[random stirrup]

well also that math isnt taking into account nimble flurry increasing bf damage, grand melee, fazed applying an aoe amp to bf damage

a lot more calculations required

[keen belfry]

true

sorry for taking your guildies that one run ryldd

[random stirrup]

if someone had to be top damage i would want it to be the outlaw

[keen belfry]

i did it to give you a good name in your guild

i said ryldd wouldve won here

[indigo token]

i love this guy

[keen belfry]

and then ur leader was like hmm maybe ill give him more gear

[indigo token]

https://tenor.com/view/when-your-son-is-a-geek-kam-edwards-banging-head-gif-10845145880130905144

[random stirrup]

i see u in dorn nonstop

idk why ur always on my shard