outlaw

[keen belfry]

can u explain? i still get a lil confused with container stuff

to be clear the stealth window does have to be pretty close for me to play this way

[gaunt phoenix]

say you pressed KIR at some point and now you have 4 buffs that are 37s

37s 37s 37s 37s

you roll and get 2 more buffs that are 39s

37s 37s 37s 37s 39s 39s

you now have 6 buffs, and will be at 6 buffs for at most 37s, afterward will become 2 buffs and you will have to roll again

if you had waited until the 37s buffs were like 30s then you would be at 6 buffs for at most 30s

So you lost 6 buff uptime

[keen belfry]

mm that makes sense

[gaunt phoenix]

that said, waiting a bit for a stealth supercharge could very well offset some x seconds of potential 6 buff uptime

[keen belfry]

would my rule change if you kir'd 6 buffs at 37seconds

that wouldnt lead to less right?

[keen belfry]

i just find going into stealth windows with double SC 7 cp btes quite juicy and vibes +10%

rtb optimizing is so weird/cringe

[gaunt phoenix]

not possible to have 6 buffs that are all ahead of the container and at the same second

[keen belfry]

true

i bet the situation that happened last night in my head was like, 50s 50s, then under or something

for buff duration

but ive been doing some weird rtb stuff lately where i sit on it where i would normally roll

and these things might not even be good

[gaunt phoenix]

"officially" the only RTB rule you should be flexing is when you will lose 3-4 buffs and are waiting for them to tick down to some arbitrarily low duration

[keen belfry]

if i have good 3-4 buffs i let them fall off basically

[gaunt phoenix]

if you have the full RP BS TB package then that's prolly fine

[gaunt phoenix]

at least next tier rtb will lose most of this random nuance

[keen belfry]

are u rerolling here

i wouldnt

[gaunt phoenix]

"officially" it's fine but you will likely just lose a buff

[keen belfry]

yeah and considering the buffs

i never reroll here

[glass mortar]

But if u reroll it could be anything

[random stirrup]

reroll before ks ick

[glass mortar]

It could even be a 5 buff

[gaunt phoenix]

well i cant even parse wtf your buffs are

[keen belfry]

ignore ks i never sc ks

[red zinc]

suǒ dìng brothers

[keen belfry]

the 2 reds are BS and TB

[red zinc]

big ptr day tomorrow

[gaunt phoenix]

and yes, the chance that you just get an instant 5 roll

kind of throws a wrench at "conventional" rtb rules

[random stirrup]

isnt the 5 roll here not even good

er well i guess now its fine (but you only gain 2s duration at most)

i have trauma from pressing kir into insta overwriting most of them to lower duration

[keen belfry]

youd reroll here?

[glass mortar]

Yes gotta try for a 5 buff

Didn't u read tier set?

[keen belfry]

poop

[glass mortar]

Smh

[keen belfry]

vibes of having BS and TB

winner.

[gaunt phoenix]

why is kezan on your WA but with no number

what is it tracking

[sudden fulcrum]

vibes

[keen belfry]

my bottom grid is just trinket 1/2

i have a kezan tracker

elsewhere

[random stirrup]

why does ghostly strike have the eviscerate icon

[keen belfry]

gs ugly ass icon

[gaunt phoenix]

cuz zac hates the gs icon

[random stirrup]

ya but zac didnt make it evis

[gaunt phoenix]

true

cuz awang hates the gs icon

[keen belfry]

my HO build has a supercharger icon placeholder

for appearance

or

my fatebound pack

wanna see something heinous

how old am i to have misinputted this bad

[gaunt phoenix]

[covert kestrel]

🫂

[remote pecan]

I've done this more times than I like to admit

[keen belfry]

i have some sicks snip fo the exact opposite

but man

this one was bad

[random stirrup]

something about rtb and kir both relating to buffs means i rarely mix them up and do rtb kir instead of kir rtb

brutal

[keen belfry]

once this tier i did rtb isnta KIR instead of kir 6 buff

[random stirrup]

yep

[keen belfry]

i think it was buried treasure solo buff too

[gaunt phoenix]

my vanish and trinket binds are close

sometimes i will vanish > trinket

and promptly uninstall the game

[keen belfry]

is this not

[gaunt phoenix]

lowkey if you miss a vanish window you feel off for the rest of the pull

[keen belfry]

yes

u might be able to get to your next ar fine

but then that ar is cooked

[vivid vessel]

i love when this happens

and people say kir isnt fun

idk

crazy

[keen belfry]

did u see the previous one

[keen belfry]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

haha

bro it was so free

[keen belfry]

yeah

that was a free one

[vivid vessel]

long tb at least

[keen belfry]

i think brain was like u pressed finisher goodjob take abreak

[vivid vessel]

[keen belfry]

i think its very cool how the difference between kiring 6 buff is often less than 3 gcds

making every gcd often very very impactful

[gaunt phoenix]

yeep

[keen belfry]

no one understands our struggle

[random stirrup]

ye the 1min they took off last tier was sick

[keen belfry]

like when i complain to my tank about rando uptime stuff i feel like such a baby

but i also feel warrranted

[random stirrup]

i finally brought my outlaw alt to mugzee to get capos, we wiped once, i rtb'd for SC, then we pulled at the perfect time that my buffs had fallen off and cd wasn't back up so i spent the first 3 globals with 0 buffs, then rolled single buried treasure

[keen belfry]

when you get fucked uptime on extractor pulls in ML then your tank chains into next pack as the last pack is dying so you dont restealth

[gaunt phoenix]

[craggy barn]

i just dont rtb for sc unless i know my raid will wait long, like early wipe and our disc has cds still

[flat needle]

Hope we will get buffed before patch goes live

[craggy barn]

i got my new x3d pc after our gally kill

[random stirrup]

we usually take a bit between pulls im pretty sure i was just dumb and was late to take the rez

can't remember why

[sudden fulcrum]

sorry best we can do is more mage buffs

[craggy barn]

cant wait to have huge fps on our reclears

[remote pecan]

Just rtb the moment you res if it's not on cd and pray you don't 5 roll

Prerolling 5 and then knowing 100% you're raid isn't going to pull before it falls off feels soo bad

[vale warren]

just roll another 5

[solar hazel]

what corruption enchant do you go for m+?

[gaunt phoenix]

Twilight dev

[keen belfry]

solo are we fixed next ptr?

[late swallow]

100%

outlaw saved next ptr build

[quaint mauve]

just give it up man

we all rerolling surv hunter

[keen belfry]

i will int keys as outlaw next tier

[quaint mauve]

yeah same

i need to desperately go to bed

my brain can’t do my work rn, and it’s due at midnight

[keen belfry]

its the afternoon cuh

[quaint mauve]

if i end up waking up past midnight

i’ll kms

[quaint mauve]

11:37 am

true

[sudden fulcrum]

melotonin is extremely effective for making me to go sleep

get some gummies

[quaint mauve]

it’s a bit late for that man

[flat notch]

Hey guys, does anyone know what is the maximum amount of targets I can hit with Geargrinder's Spare Keys trinket?

[quaint mauve]

i need chloroform on my nightstand

[covert kestrel]

Sounds like a healthy sleep schedule

[proper bear]

How dead is dead for HO for next patch? We talking big af gap from KIR?

[quaint mauve]

real rogues prowl in the night

[quaint mauve]

300% dps difference

[gaunt phoenix]

Five

er

i lied

you can hit as many targets as the aoe allows

but the damage scales up to 5

[flat notch]

So means if dk grips 10 targets and I launch the trink perfectly in them, only 5 will receive dmg?

[gaunt phoenix]

10 targets will take damage, but the total damage is split among them

this total damage scales upward by +30% per target until 5

[flat notch]

oh so means there's no difference in dps/dmg if I launch into 5 or into 10, it'll just split between them anyways

[gaunt phoenix]

yer

[quaint mauve]

i got my pacemaker what other trinket should i be going for with dinars

i was thinking the dfc once

[flat notch]

Thanks a lot!

[quaint mauve]

the wax whistle

[gaunt phoenix]

M wax whistle is what you should get if you dont have access to mythic raid trinkets

[covert kestrel]

Grim GOATdex

[quaint mauve]

bet

i do not have access to raid on my rogue

bc my raid has stopped doing reclears

i could probs get geargrinder

[gaunt phoenix]

Raid trinkets are barely an upgrade anyway

[quaint mauve]

no way first 4 raid bosses groups are hard to get into

if i link ce

right?

surely

[gaunt phoenix]

Geargrinder is technically bis but it does not hit rookery 1st boss while in intermission, and it does not hit rookery 3rd boss at all

[vale warren]

first 3 are easy

idk about the next 2

[quaint mauve]

yeah wax whistle clears i’ll stick to that

[late swallow]

wow trinket descriptions in 2025 be like:

[craggy kelp]

i did a sim yesterday trying to finish my rogue alt and it said m codex/signet were stronger than m whistle/pacemaker

[fathom bramble]

I miss when trinkets had actually useful info like proc rate or icd on them

now you can't really tell what a trinket will do without using wowhead

[jolly geyser]

was that gone after SoO?

[fathom bramble]

yeah

when they did all the rppm stuff they just dropped it from the tooltip

[mighty pivot]

even the ability tooltips show minimal information now. Look at sectec's tooltip for instance

[fathom bramble]

I think at this point most outlaw tooltips are inaccurate or don't contain enough information with certain talents selected

though some of it is extremely minor

like none of the finishers changing their cost to 1 to 7 combo points when you have both deeper stratagems on

[mighty pivot]

yup or RtB's buffs not being mentioned anywhere. But they just assume that you use wowhead nowadays that's why they even link to it ingame

which can be funny when wowhead is outdated

[fiery viper]

how playable is outlaw in ptr with ~160 ms

[fathom bramble]

it's doable as long as your ping is stable

[mighty pivot]

outdated like so (mouseover shows the correct buff)

[fathom bramble]

wowhead needs to update that..

they still don't have it on the correct RTB page

[mighty pivot]

(this is from the finisher version of it which shows up first in the results)

[fathom bramble]

and just have the outdated one that confuses people

[mighty pivot]

the correct spell id has as top comment the old GM with SnD duration and leech

it's just "go figure it out yourself, billy "

[vale warren]

did it really used to be 25% leech

wtf were they doing

[fathom bramble]

that was our strongest buff at one point

the 40% attackspeed on it was quite good

[vivid vessel]

no way i still havent unlocked that

im like 3 weeks late or what

[fathom bramble]

should have gotten it this week

[vivid vessel]

[sudden fulcrum]

probbaly got hit by rep bug

[civic zephyr]

zac, how shit do we look going into s3 as outlaw

[vivid vessel]

our st/prio is super bad

but

i think that means we get buffed

cause thats raid stuffs

and raid get tuning

[fathom bramble]

or we just get to be bad in raid

who knows

[civic zephyr]

prayge surerly

[vivid vessel]

ye i guess

but its rare we are that bottom

tbf

[fathom bramble]

true

[vivid vessel]

like we are really really low

[fathom bramble]

I have a bad habbit of thinking of like actually 10 years ago

[vivid vessel]

i dont remember a season it was that bad tbf

[fathom bramble]

where we were just at the bottom perma

[vivid vessel]

hm

[balmy topaz]

Naa cus we get balanced around mystic touch

[vivid vessel]

well since i started the game

i dont think we were that bad st

going into a tier

so im not too worried

cause we are bad enough to get buffed

[fathom bramble]

yeah

blizz does a much better job at class balance in general these days

[civic zephyr]

so we are either prayge for buff, or we get a stinker season

[balmy topaz]

As in like being reactive to it?

[fathom bramble]

starting balance is just way better now

compared to like legion

[balmy topaz]

Ye true

[fathom bramble]

I don't think they have gotten any more reactive

but the amount of necessary changes that need to happen mid tier is way loweer

like in the past the 'bad' spec could be as much as 20% or 30% behind

but now we are seeing mostly numbers in the 1-10% range

[vivid vessel]

in raid *

[fathom bramble]

yeah my bad

in raid

dungeon balance is still a nightmare with some specs being complete dog

[vivid vessel]

the tuning difference in m+ is still crazy

just teh fact some specs are target capped at 5

and some arent

crearte a disparity

impossible to tune

and in m+ idk

raid buffs

actually have value

compared to raid

in raid you cant say that this guy is doing x damage + bring a raid buff

thats irrelevant

in m+

its not

[fathom bramble]

KC disconnect beecause I had the audacity to use it near water...

can't wait for that to be gone

[novel socket]

except sub and shaman buff

[vivid vessel]

wdym

[novel socket]

nice job blizz

[vivid vessel]

im just saying

in m+

[keen belfry]

they need to address raid buffs in m+

[vivid vessel]

raid buffs are way more impactful

[fathom bramble]

in raid you just expect to havee them all

[vivid vessel]

for example you take war

just for the buff

[novel socket]

lots of things need to be addressed in m+

[vivid vessel]

war would never be played

ever

[novel socket]

including the shitty racials

dwarf and nelf lightyears ahead of everything else

[fathom bramble]

racials in general neeed to be addressed

[keen belfry]

yeah id never invite an arms warrior to a single key if they didnt have their raid buff

[keen belfry]

if this game was released today your create a character screen would let you pick a racial from the ones listed, regardless of whatever race you are

so many things in wow would be so different if game was released today

raid would be 10 man

[novel socket]

if wow was released today the way it is now it would be dead in a year without radical changes

[keen belfry]

ye

[civic zephyr]

i think they either need to cap everything at 8, or balance based on being uncapped for all

[keen belfry]

but they have captured all of us

[novel socket]

stockholm syndrome

[fathom bramble]

so many rpgs have a "Before your life as an adventurer you were a ___" type input

give us backgrounds instead of racials

or just trash the eentire thing

[keen belfry]

i wonder when we will be on wow 4

[vivid vessel]

but its also something that needs to be accounted

cause like

is it fair for a warrior in m+ to do rogue damage

while bringing 5% damage

no its not

but how do you tune that

[keen belfry]

i agree

but

[mighty pivot]

give characters spirit animals to decide racial bonuses. E.g., Boar -> stoneform, chameleon -> Shadowmeld, foxy femboy -> bloodfury etc

[hot olive]

ptr down outlaw buff inc

[keen belfry]

just make raid buffs either null or everyone has all of them in m+

[red zinc]

ptr down on a monday?

[keen belfry]

that way u can simple tune right?

[hot olive]

ya

[red zinc]

crazy

would be weird for it to go up before the new testing wave though

prob another day

[vivid vessel]

they already have ptr down ?

[red zinc]

according to this guy

[hot olive]

ye its down

[vivid vessel]

whyt do they bring it down so early this cycle

i dont get it

it was never down

the other cycles

perma up

[red zinc]

because they are uploading rogue 2

takes more time

[civic zephyr]

okay zac, when are you gonna teach me the ins and outs of outlaw so i can train to be as sexy as you are

[mighty pivot]

realz' PR of GIGANTIC PROPORTIONS has finally been merged

[vivid vessel]

i have nothing to teach anyone

outlaw is all about

playing the game

no secrets

[fathom bramble]

I also just hate the idea of doing 20% more or less damage with a comp diff

[vivid vessel]

yes

[fathom bramble]

even if they somehow tuned it in a way that was 'fair'

[vivid vessel]

also lok

[fathom bramble]

I want to be allowed to play with a mage warlock priest

[vivid vessel]

for some reason

[fathom bramble]

and not feel like I'm missing all my dam

[vivid vessel]

since i started the game outlaw baseline for m+

has been perceived witout raid buffs

you never tought about outlaw and were

ok but you can just get 20% raid buffs

and now since this season

since people started playing melee comp

for some reason the new baseline is 20% buffs

even tho 99% of people wont ebver see these buffs

[fathom bramble]

and monk buff is getting even stronger

[south glen]

do i just hit dispatch over killing spree? bc i swear it feels like im almost never safe to hit killing spree inside most dungeons\

[civic zephyr]

so is it time for me to give up on all classes and lock in on rogue

[gaunt phoenix]

you can ks at low cp if you fear death

[wary bridge]

Die and blame the healer

[gaunt phoenix]

but mostly you are expected to use it

[south glen]

i mean thats pretty much what i do rn

[civic zephyr]

just slam a max cp ks and blame blizzard for dying ezpz

[south glen]

thats also something i do bc tbf it is their fault

[civic zephyr]

W skttles

[pseudo charm]

my favourite thing to do is say "not my problem" in voice and then hit the button

[civic zephyr]

LMAO

[pseudo charm]

it's so good when 0.1 seconds after you hit killing spree you get targeted with a line and everyone just has to handle it

[south glen]

but like on first boss of rookery for instance you basically cant hit it during the beam phase bc you get insta stunned but luckily i wont have these issues next season

[pseudo charm]

rookery I hit it immediately when the boss lands usually

[south glen]

i got the circle on big momma and gave everyone a heart attack

[mighty pivot]

you wouldn't anyway, rookery is gone next season

[south glen]

same thats the only time i know of where its safe

[thorny zinc]

u can also ks during the time when the lazer is over and hes afk in the middle

[pseudo charm]

it's about just reps to learn where your safe spots are imo, there's lots of fights where it's like "this isn't safe here" and then over time you learn there are spots where it was actually safe you just really gotta time it

yeah like that

[south glen]

i didnt know i could hit it when hes just vibin

[pseudo charm]

hitting killing spree when targeted with an AoE mechanic is an opportunity to make your team better at dodging and if you don't do it you're depriving them of a Teachable Moment™

and that's toxic

[gaunt phoenix]

on floodgate 3rd boss

if you get linked to ranged then they deserve it

yank em

[pseudo charm]

that one's fun because it's how my friends know whether or not I like them. some of them I'll hold it and some of them are coming on a ride

[mighty pivot]

make sure to send that KS with 10cp on swampface

[civic zephyr]

TRUE

fuck the other dps im attached to

[pseudo charm]

they could have also rolled rogues and hit killing spree. there are solutions

[civic zephyr]

true

[mighty pivot]

what happens if two rogues are attached and they both KS? probably nothing if it's considered forced movement

[civic zephyr]

ive now been convinced to be a rogue player

[south glen]

i always do and its never dragged them

i normally play with a feral druid and hes never been yoinked

[spring bay]

So is outlaw st just kinda mid compared to aoe?

[covert heart]

I have dragged a few people with ks

[gaunt phoenix]

you can move during ks, but you still teleport every 0.5s

[covert heart]

Usually it's a range player

[civic zephyr]

this^

[gaunt phoenix]

so two rogues linked to each other will just kind of shove eachother between ks hits

[pseudo charm]

like dancing

[south glen]

what if they ks at the exact same time O.O

[covert heart]

I usually send it before the waves come out or right after so maybe thats why I drag them. I also don't care because my damage is more important 😜

[south glen]

i only have a 86 parse in flood, so im hitting ks on cd everytime no matter the situation

[craggy barn]

two rogues who are giga lagging both ks at the same time while linked ot eachother

both are completely gone from the fight for 100 seconds

[covert heart]

I started just sending more and if I die I die

So be it 🤣

It rarely kills me, if it's iffy I usually just cloak to be safe haha

[keen belfry]

solo ptr is down what are the outlaw changes

solo??

[vivid vessel]

solo ??

[exotic grail]

40% aura buff and uncapped bladeflurry

[balmy topaz]

Wtf solo???

Why is he taking so long??

[mighty pivot]

typical rogue TCers taking an eternity

[vivid vessel]

fuck solo ! ! !!

[civic zephyr]

suck folo

wait..

[balmy topaz]

Not even streaming main raid?

Wtf zac

Zac??

[mighty pivot]

he probably found a new bug to abuse

[vivid vessel]

bro

its 4 bosses

we dont full clear anymore

who hit

the thing

who is the noob

[balmy topaz]

We saw them

delete

Who was it own up

[mighty pivot]

it was a yellow name

[buoyant cosmos]

I got hit with the profanity filter?

[vivid vessel]

you did

waht did you say

say it again just to check

[buoyant cosmos]

yanked

[balmy topaz]

[buoyant cosmos]

I was just telling solo I was linked to another outlaw during the third boss in flood gate and it pulled us all over the place

[balmy topaz]

Cinema

[buoyant cosmos]

It was great, I killed the enhance shaman doing the same thing.

[balmy topaz]

My gear is still ass

[toxic star]

i will never get past Cry Rad

[balmy topaz]

I came back to the game this time last week

I need a full mythic raid

Gear me fully out

ready for the launch of s3

[desert tendon]

u hot kinda

[balmy topaz]

Thanks sexc

[wary bridge]

Does this gear make you able to deal over 2m in ST?

[balmy topaz]

I can do 2mill on ST ye

[keen belfry]

where is solo?

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/john-travolta-well-where-is-it-looking-for-something-gif-5291661

[balmy topaz]

You scared him away gg

[keen belfry]

maybe i do too much dps

[covert kestrel]

He's fighting the mage head TC who hacked for tarnishing the simc ranks

[buoyant cosmos]

I saw that Realz left blizz a while ago, does his replacement ever show up?

[lime lake]

you saw that did you

[buoyant cosmos]

Okay sure, I read that.

[desert tendon]

@cedar kernel where you gone

long time no gm you

[frail veldt]

Lolol where'd you read that

[keen belfry]

what if he typed in here less than a month ago about rogue changes hes working on

What If?

[buoyant cosmos]

I just got back, saw it on a wow post that he'd left.

[frail veldt]

Oh like he posted?

[frail veldt]

Yeah I was getting to that lol

[buoyant cosmos]

hearsay

[buoyant cosmos]

That's cool

[keen belfry]

https://tenor.com/view/objection-heidi-gardner-saturday-night-live-hearsay-i-object-gif-25915901

embedd fail.

[buoyant cosmos]

I'm guilty of believing gossip.

[frail veldt]

Believing hearsay on discord is one thing, believing hearsay on a wow forum post is another

[vivid vessel]

mewo

have you alwats played rogue

[buoyant cosmos]

Truly.

[red zinc]

Heresy!

[frail veldt]

It was my first main

[lime lake]

https://tenor.com/view/paulwasher-bible-heartcry-doctrinematters-theology-gif-10380111143761991703

[frail veldt]

But I quit in cata and rejoined in sl and mained priest at first

[bright crane]

GROSS

[lime lake]

ew wtf

[quick quail]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[lime lake]

priest player

[frail veldt]

Spriest was pretty fun in sl tbh

[lime lake]

no you arent allowed to say anything good about sl

[keen belfry]

do you just copy me?

[lime lake]

not for another expansion or two

[frail veldt]

Well who did it first lol

[bright crane]

https://tenor.com/view/report-gif-1503567894920909548

[frail veldt]

I was a pvp main when I started

I doubt we have that in common

[keen belfry]

i was spriest main starting in legion

you copied me

[bright crane]

Jk I also used to be a priest main

Disc used to be grossly overpowered

[keen belfry]

1550 super high

[frail veldt]

Yuge

[keen belfry]

my spries thas the og name

awang

nbd

[civic zephyr]

i still kinda want them to change new ks to be hit main target flurry to others

[frail veldt]

We all don

[keen belfry]

i do

[frail veldt]

Trade it to your main

[keen belfry]

i want to hit every target other than my target

[frail veldt]

It sucks I got my pvp titles on my alt

[keen belfry]

how bout that?

[frail veldt]

So I had to just turn it into my main lol

[red zinc]

I want to hit

@keen belfry please

[keen belfry]

👄

[civic zephyr]

but im trying this spec in raid and lowkey

[keen belfry]

🫦

[civic zephyr]

im having a fucking GREAT time

its so fun to play

[sudden fulcrum]

https://tenor.com/view/pirate-you-are-a-pirate-lazytown-robby-rotten-pirates-gif-5693032399787985578

[quick quail]

How's outlaw state on ptr now? Cant keep up with the changes. Im busy working abroad until the release.

[neat heart]

is 1 button outlaw that bad

[late swallow]

Yeah its omega bad

[frail veldt]

The gcd penalty alone is like 30%

Loss

[civic zephyr]

outlaw is like one of the main specs in the game 1 button fucks it completely

[neat heart]

i did mm 1 button in pvp and you can top damage in blitz lobbies at like 2.4

but i assumed outlaw would be brutal

[frail veldt]

Wdym?

1 button is out already?

[neat heart]

1 button marksmen in pvp is pretty good

yeah

[lime lake]

for a while now yes

lmao

[neat heart]

its in top right of spell book

[frail veldt]

Lolololol I had no idea

[neat heart]

its good for a lot of classes just not great

[late swallow]

[civic zephyr]

its at top of spell book

[neat heart]

i think its tuned perfectly and i love it

but for good players its bad

think energy classes it sucks on

[sudden fulcrum]

i don't think it's "good" for any class if your goal is to do competitive damage

[civic zephyr]

this, for casual play, and accesability options, its great for alot of classes, but for higher content and small amounts of classes, its p much unusable

[sudden fulcrum]

if you just wanna RP or something then go for it

[neat heart]

guy it parses like 50-60th percentile in mythic raids lol

[civic zephyr]

but this isnt "good" on a competitive level?

[neat heart]

if its doing better than your average mythic raider

thats good no?

[sudden fulcrum]

turns out mythic raid is way easier if you are just slamming one button

who knew

[civic zephyr]

"average mythic raider" compared to consistent cutting edge competing to be good on thier class among the others who are playing it

[red zinc]

50-60th percentile on what

[civic zephyr]

yes its bad

[red zinc]

First 2 bosses?

[sudden fulcrum]

you can blue parse in mythic raid but you get a repetitive strain injury

worth?

[civic zephyr]

lmao..

[red zinc]

I actually have the one button attached to a windmill that spins a physical rod that hits the keyboard

If i get perma’d for “scripting” please ping everyone for me

[civic zephyr]

is this a shot at the mage discord thing? Xd

[neat heart]

guys im banned from maybe 6 class discords

[civic zephyr]

is it cos you spit some bad takes and argue with people too much on them or? is it a diff reason XD

[neat heart]

well i used to get bored in community college and would just go randomly talk shit in a class that was annoying me in pvp

but more recently it'll be someone having a pedantic take and me crashing out out of boredom

[frail veldt]

It literally is

By definition

50-60th percentile is above average

That's what the percentile means

Lolol

It means that 50% of players would have done more damage using the rotation(assuming their performance is a result of their rotational issues and not gear/dying/etc

[red zinc]

50-60 on first two bosses isnt representative for mythic raiders at all

[frail veldt]

Sure but the fact remains

[civic zephyr]

sure its above average, but when the average is also factoring in guilds that are doing >4 bosses at a push, its skewed results to say the least

[frail veldt]

The majority of players will do more damage by using the one button

On some specs

Which is hilarious

[civic zephyr]

but this is because the majority of players are average at best? speaking factually?

[frail veldt]

homie its a cyclical definition

assuming normal distribution function, there is an even number of players above average as below average

so yes

if you prase at 51%

you are better than the majority of players

[late swallow]

[frail veldt]

mathematically

[civic zephyr]

im not here to argue, im just saying if a bad player/average player gets a button that does 90% of thier work for them, and all they have to do is focus on not standing in shit, ofc it will perform better xD

[frail veldt]

yeah I agree

[neat heart]

the video i saw, 35-65% parses in mythic raid, depending on spec

[frail veldt]

thats the point im making

[civic zephyr]

but that doesnt make it good, it just makes bad players have an easier time to do content

[frail veldt]

depends how you define good

if good is "above average"

then it LITERALLY makes you "good"

if it parses over 50%

by definition it makes you "perform above average"

hahahaha

tbh I think the correct balance for the 1 button rotation would be to aim for sub 50% parse

and that the gcd penalty is too variant on its impact to performance for that to be the "penalty"

[honest sparrow]

I dont get the gcd penalty. It just makes it feel clunky. Wouldnt not be just a flat % dmg decrease on the spells be better? It would effect every class the same way

[civic zephyr]

but i already said, my opinion is on a competitive level of the players that consistently clear CE quicker than most, before it becomes a playground of nerfed content, the ones that aim to be good at thier class rather than good at not standing in something on the floor

it was almost the first thing i said

[vestal notch]

maybe bc since its an accesibility helper, they want those people to have more time between presses

[civic zephyr]

i agree on this tho ^

they shouldnt make it make people better at the game, just more accessible for people with struggles

for the more average player

[neat heart]

its basically exactly that right now

[frail veldt]

so youre syaing the 1 button rotation doesnt make you a ce raider?

[solar hazel]

i have a question, say you have kir'd your buffs and near the end you see it's possible to get another extension with keep it rolling do you wait to do that or do you just roll the buffs away earlier like said in the guide?

[frail veldt]

but the thing is

you know how many people with "CE" parse grey?

lolololol

[neat heart]

most classes its not above 50% and you still have to time cd's with packs and mechanics etc

[vivid vessel]

I think the one button rotation thing is way too good

[frail veldt]

I think people are underestimating how bad most players are at their rotation

[frail veldt]

agreed

its better than most players

[vivid vessel]

You should have a 50% damage reduction attached to it

[civic zephyr]

"the ones that aim to be good at thier class" but cherry picking parts of my sentences is an interesting approach

[dawn talon]

wow is just a strange game for accessibility

[vivid vessel]

I don't like that like 90% of players will get out damaged by bozos pressing one button

[neat heart]

isnt the goal to get more people into doing end game content

[dawn talon]

because like im disabled as fuck right

[vivid vessel]

Prolly 95% of players

[neat heart]

vanilla wow's design was basically 1 button

i think this is good

[reef forge]

do we have any idea what the best raid spec is next season

or will there still be big changes

[frail veldt]

yeah but I still think its too strong

[vivid vessel]

Billijoe that has been tryharding his spec to get better and do more damage in his 15s is now getting out damaged by random zoomer 31 pressing one button

[frail veldt]

its indended purpose is an accessibility tool

[vivid vessel]

I wouldn't want to be that guy

[frail veldt]

so everyone can do quests/clear normal raid

[neat heart]

why is this a problem

[frail veldt]

yet in its current state its practically performing at a level that you could fill a whole raid with 1 button rotation and get CE

[vivid vessel]

Because billijoe feels terrible

[frail veldt]

thats way too good

[vivid vessel]

How is that not a problem

[frail veldt]

exaaaaaaaaactly

[neat heart]

but now so many more players feel good

[dawn talon]

because it breaks the intended reward structure of the game

[vivid vessel]

Most people can't do the damage the one button rotation thing does

[vivid vessel]

Terrible take

[frail veldt]

for each one of them that "feels good" someone else will feel bad

so no

thats a zero sum feature

[proper bear]

I wanna see a whole arena world champ where everyone’s just mashing the one button

[dawn talon]

it's a very very lazy accessibility feature and a lazy implementation of it as well

[vivid vessel]

You remove half the gameplay of wow

And you make everyone chosing to play the game normally

[neat heart]

WoW is an RPG. Before the current iteration of retail, raiding used to be easy. Vanilla MM was 1 button, it was not an esport. This is bringing it back to that and leaving the hardest content for people who want to play hard

[vivid vessel]

At a disadvantage

[neat heart]

The only people this impacts are average players with an ego

[vivid vessel]

And most of these people will feel pressured to use it

[proper bear]

I mean

[grave rose]

What are we bitching about today boys?

[vivid vessel]

Because it means more damage

[proper bear]

That still exists

[dawn talon]

this is a let's get you back to bed grandpa ass take

ngl

[neat heart]

people are upset 1 button is too good lol

[dawn talon]

if you want vanilla mm, go play vanilla mm

[grave rose]

is it?

[fair oak]

Is it actually that good, swear to god I did keys with people pressing that shit and it was horrible

[vivid vessel]

Brother you probably will get out damaged by the one button rotation

No capi

[frail veldt]

nah were just sayhing its an incorrect design decision for it to be this good

at least thats our opinion

[neat heart]

im a 2.4 pvper who uses it

[vivid vessel]

Ah ok

Well

[neat heart]

i dont do competitve pve content

[frail veldt]

2.4 mm hunter in solo shuffle

[grave rose]

I saw someone got 3k using it.

fucking hillarious

[civic zephyr]

i think it is too for the more average player, i never said it wasnt

[dawn talon]

content from 21 years ago is not relevant to the current atmosphere of mmo content design

[neat heart]

no i dont do arenas now

[dawn talon]

i think wow DOES need more accessibility features, but this is a lazy ass way to do it

[frail veldt]

oh no

[civic zephyr]

its just not good standing from the opinion of the higher ranking players which is what i was talking on LMAO

[frail veldt]

2.4 blitz is what youre talking about?

[vivid vessel]

Its not that good, for most specs it's fine, the thing is, you overestimate the average wow player

[neat heart]

i think its a huge difference between whether or not you think wow should be a hard game or not

yes mewo

[vivid vessel]

Most people do 0 damage

[grave rose]

Maybe you should have to send blizzard a picture of your disability to use it?

[frail veldt]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

that makes SO MUCH more sense

[fair oak]

I guess yeah

[grave rose]

no damage, at all?

[neat heart]

I fundamentally think WoW should be pretty easy

[grave rose]

Dead on pull?

[fair oak]

I think you should go pvp

[neat heart]

it's never really been a competitve game by design

[vivid vessel]

If I do a weekly on my main rn

[dawn talon]

it still is

[proper bear]

Rage bait

[dawn talon]

wow is an easy ass game bro

[stuck patrol]

Actually this, most people suck ass at the game

[vivid vessel]

I will probably do 5/6 times the damage of the people in my keys

[frail veldt]

thats just objetively incorrect

[neat heart]

not rage bait, dota / tekken, you can name like 1000x games designed to be hard

[frail veldt]

it literally has rated competitive modes

I mean

[grave rose]

You never leave the house though

[vivid vessel]

The one button rotation will get you to like 60% + of your spec

[frail veldt]

that take just makes no sense hahahahah

[dawn talon]

dota is not designed to be hard it is designed to be complex

[neat heart]

wow's never been taken seriously as a competitve game outside of world first raiding

[vivid vessel]

Which is way better than these guys

[dawn talon]

this is an insanely uninformed take

like

[neat heart]

and arena for maybe 4 years

[frail veldt]

thats insanely subjective

aite hes just rage baiting

[vivid vessel]

That's not my point tho

[frail veldt]

2400 blitz 1 button mm hunter

cba

[red zinc]

can yall stop falling for obvious baiters

jesus

[civic zephyr]

LMAO

[frail veldt]

the #pvp channel is leaking

[vivid vessel]

My point is, these people will get out damaged by the one button rotation

[frail veldt]

yes he def would

[neat heart]

you guys claim im rage baiting but this is why the game is in a weird spot

[frail veldt]

thats why hes using it

problem is

now he has an ego

if anything

thiis is evidence

of the problem

its too good

[neat heart]

discord players who like minmaxxing gatekeep lol and it turns away new players

[fair oak]

but at that level people suck massive ass like big big butt I honestly think it should get a bigger gcd penalty and maybe that's it

[neat heart]

i have an ego for using it?

how?

its literally 1 button lol

[vivid vessel]

But that's 90%+ of wow population tho

[frail veldt]

I mean you could have had an ego before idk

[fair oak]

You were trying to convince feral discord of the same thing bro it's fine if you use have fun pop off my sovereign

[vivid vessel]

You think it'd fine that 90% of wow pop get out damaged by a random ass tool

[neat heart]

you just claimed i had an ego for saying what im confused

[frail veldt]

yeah horrible take

[civic zephyr]

"the game is in a weird spot because the good players are rewarded by being good, and the bad players cant clear the content as easily"

interesting

[neat heart]

its on average a 20% increase for average players but its not better than 90% no

[vestal notch]

getting outdamaged by obr andie has to be the worst feeling in gaming eve

[vivid vessel]

It's better than you

[frail veldt]

"wows not a serious competitive game" " I top damage in all my games using it" "wows easy anyway it doesnt matter"

idk just "egoing" man

[neat heart]

im saying that its good

[vivid vessel]

It's better than 90% of players tho I know it lol

[neat heart]

you entirely intepreted that in bad faith lol

[grave rose]

I have to ask, who gives a fuck how other people play a video game?

[neat heart]

statiscally not true at all

[fair oak]

No I don't think it's fine but also the current "endgame content" like getting 3k or aotc or like late league CE is way too easy with current character power

[frail veldt]

brother those were your words not mine lol

[civic zephyr]

when its being argued with an ego, most people

[neat heart]

yes but you chose to read it like that, i was saying as in the button is good

[red zinc]

🏄‍♂️ 🏄‍♀️

[vivid vessel]

You don't know how bad the average wow player is at doing damage

[civic zephyr]

for average/bad players yes, its probably too good

[neat heart]

a lot of people evidently

[vestal notch]

if its parsing 50-60 in mythic raid, then its better than half hte mythic raiders in the game, which is already a small % of players

[neat heart]

You guys are arguing with me that the button is too good because it lets bad players get to close to end game content lol

[vestal notch]

although parsing 50 in vexie aint the same as parsing 50 on mugzee i would assume

[vivid vessel]

No

[neat heart]

and im saying yes the game should be easier for them

[red zinc]

highly doubt the 50-60 thing is even true

[grave rose]

What are you guys gonna do when people on xbox are playing?

[red zinc]

but it was about first 2

[vivid vessel]

Im arguing that 90% of players in the game will feel forced to use it cause it's better than them

[fervent orbit]

●▅▇█▇▆▅▄▇ rogue buff plz

[vivid vessel]

And that's bad

[fair oak]

Real

[vestal notch]

im answering based on the premise that its true, im not going to fully invest into the data since i cba about obr

[neat heart]

I think you guys forget wow's identity is an RPG, youre pretending to be a rogue killing a dragon

thats how most players view MMOs

[fair oak]

If some guy in an aotc guild gets told to turn on one button to do more damage that's cringe as fuck

[neat heart]

not an esport

[grave rose]

Honestly though if it makes them do better damage, doesnt that make it less likely youll run into as bad of a shitter in a pug?

[red zinc]

you're pretending to be a smart person making a point

[vivid vessel]

Ye and I can assure you that will be most people

[fair oak]

[neat heart]

i made you seethe over saying wow isnt a serious esport?

how does that even piss you off lol

[grave rose]

WoW is life.

[red zinc]

no i could care less just popped up in my head

[vivid vessel]

But then they aren't playing the game, you removed the option they had to.play the game themselves

[grave rose]

but if theyre shit. you dont wanna play with em anyway right?

[neat heart]

the other guy i argued didnt even know it was out

and was mad about it lol

[vivid vessel]

Idc lol, I'm not playing with them anyways , I'm talking from their pov

[civic zephyr]

^ this p much

[vivid vessel]

From Billie pov that tryhard his spec in his 13s keys

[civic zephyr]

like why enable people being lazy as fuck

[vivid vessel]

He will get out damaged by the one button rotation and feels like shit

[fair oak]

It's not a serious esport no, people want to optimize their damage through their own efforts it has nothing to do with being a competitive game. If there is a tool that just plays the game for you and you have no real way of getting better than it then what's the point of trying to be better

[civic zephyr]

like if you arent willing to learn enough about a class like its basic rotation

[neat heart]

because most people dont view MMO design as tedious being fun

[civic zephyr]

then you wont be in the harder content anyway

[grave rose]

Or maybe it makes him finally wonder wtf hes doing wrong?

[civic zephyr]

then dont play? xoxo

[neat heart]

because it doesnt allow you to progress to the highest ends of the game

[fair oak]

What is the highest ends of the game

[vivid vessel]

Uh? Idk if you are serious are just trolling ngl

[neat heart]

why did you add xoxo also wym? i am playing with 1 button lol

sounds like you shouldnt play if you dislike it

[vivid vessel]

Oh god

Can we ban pvper from this channel

[civic zephyr]

cos youre arguing people learning the class is a "tedious mmo design"

like

[remote pecan]

i dno i did some gally (mythic) pulls using 1 button rotation when bored & topped our dmg meters (yes i gave it a little help myself but still)

[neat heart]

the design of retail pvp is changing to be more encompasing

pve*

[civic zephyr]

go back to pvp playing obr MM hunter

[neat heart]

1 button has pissed off this entire discord channel

and casuals love it

[civic zephyr]

idk how you need obr for MM since it has 3 buttons to press anyway, but you can leave with this rage bait shit

[grave rose]

Have a little hope in your fellow man Zac

[vivid vessel]

How do you think the people in your raid feels when they get out damaged by a tool

[neat heart]

not only am i not rage baiting im being polite

everyone else has been rude lol

[vivid vessel]

It's litteraly the same shit as people losing against hackers

[fair oak]

The design of retail pve is stop packs or fucking die bro no content that challenges you won't get cleared by one button rotation users

[vivid vessel]

Or cheaters

[remote pecan]

im always a tool and i always out dmg them so normal i guess

[neat heart]

ok agreed

[red zinc]

not a single person in my social raid group wants to use it

[grave rose]

if its really doing that good of damage, you dont think theyll change it?

[red zinc]

due to it being the most boring thing ever to play

sure theres some people who love it but

[vivid vessel]

To do worse ? I mean I hope so

[red zinc]

it aint a large share

[civic zephyr]

i hope they make it worse too

[honest sparrow]

I watched a stream from a guild which progressed mugzee a few days ago. The raid lead legit called that the guys who grey parse that day should start using 1 button. Was... insteresting

[grave rose]

I would think so. I mean at the most it should green parse

[neat heart]

Fundmanetally, wow is being more accessible / easier and not focusing as much on competitve esport PvE style content

[civic zephyr]

like put a damage reduction on it

[vivid vessel]

My point exactly

[proper bear]

We still eating troll bait?

[neat heart]

is the new discord meta to call everything rage bait

[vivid vessel]

Mythic green parse is still better than 90% of wow players you get in weeklies btw

Just saying

[honest sparrow]

Its a lose lose. You will have no fun using the 1 button macro long term, but you also will feel bad for "holding" the rest back

[grave rose]

If youre gray parsing youre doing something really wrong.

[hybrid crown]

My thing about mugzee is 1 button won't make me do any more damage when I'm 20 yards away from the boss looking for mines to soak

[vivid vessel]

That's why it should be shit

[grave rose]

I parse purple in mythic pugs, and im old as dirt. Is that actually true?

[fair oak]

Ok your point is that one button is good cause it lets you do decent damage without needing to put in effort at all right

[grave rose]

90%?

that seems really high

[vivid vessel]

It is true lol

Just do a weekly bro

[neat heart]

My point is that 1 button is good because it changes the game back to being more of an RPG while allowing the vast majority of players to play together and still leaves the high end players to play how they want

the only players negatively affected are mid level players who have a big ego

[fair oak]

Ok you literally just want to play classic or?

[civic zephyr]

When im top dps in a normal raid on a class idk, compared to people in the same gear doing half my dps

People are bad

[neat heart]

well now i dont have to

[proper bear]

Wild take advocating for people to mash one button to heighten the lore of rpg

[grave rose]

what do you mean weekly?

[vivid vessel]

You ignore the 90thile of players that are forced to use it because they get out damaged by it

Pretty big impact if you ask me

[vivid vessel]

Tag a 10 in lfg

[neat heart]

youre entirely making up the 90% lol but even if so, sure - i think thats better than what we had a month ago yes

[vivid vessel]

Ok you are cooked

[grave rose]

Join a pug 10?

[neat heart]

vanilla is atttractive for a reason

[vivid vessel]

Bro

[neat heart]

and this brings us back to that which is nice

[vivid vessel]

Nvm

[proper bear]

It’s exhausting to roll a dungeon and nobody kicks because everyone’s zugging so rogues gotta do it all

[vivid vessel]

Im talking to

[civic zephyr]

Go play it then, keep your shit takes to a classic discord xoxo

[vivid vessel]

[fair oak]

dude ngl arguing with some vanilla pilled guy is a mistake everytime it's all good you go slam one button

[vivid vessel]

Help

[gaunt phoenix]

this sounds pointed

[neat heart]

saph you keep saying this but thats no longer the design of retail, its already in

[civic zephyr]

[fair oak]

[neat heart]

so if anything saph you should play legion classic when its out

[vivid vessel]

You play hunter

[neat heart]

now i do yes

[gaunt phoenix]

something tells me the lot of you will not convince each other of whatever you are defending

[vivid vessel]

In pvp

[civic zephyr]

One button assist on MM

[neat heart]

no i play 8 specs in pvp

[red zinc]

guy is banned from 6 class discords for a reason

[neat heart]

i mained feral, then sub

[grave rose]

the fun is to chase each other in circles for hours I think

[hybrid crown]

TLDR HO is the best outlaw build right now

[vestal notch]

professional rage baiter wtf

[vivid vessel]

Huge

That's a professional

[neat heart]

some of it was rage baiting some of it was honest, like this

[vivid vessel]

Honestly dumb

I respect it

[civic zephyr]

Make it 7 lwk, this guys a melon

[lime lake]

[red zinc]

your honesty seems to annoy literally everyone

[neat heart]

i think the knee jerk reaction from players is kinda crazy

[red zinc]

maybe its a you problem

[neat heart]

like havent been mean once, havent said anything

but have been a fan of the button

timmy is pissed, mepo seething, like 3 others

[grave rose]

THE BUTTON

[fair oak]

are you in EU

[vivid vessel]

The button

[neat heart]

dude the button is hated

[fair oak]

log in for a key

[hybrid crown]

I set it up on my resto sham it's kinda nice as a healer

[lime lake]

T H E B U T T O N

[neat heart]

@fair oak will u carry me, i just started

[civic zephyr]

Okay but telling literally an entire channel they are wrong, because youre an average player who does better with a obr

Like?

[hybrid crown]

Frees up some buttons

[fair oak]

only if you use one button

[vestal notch]

you can enjoy obr, sure, but if you have been banned from 6 discords for honesty...you need to realize you are the issue

[red zinc]

dude I could care less about this whole conversation topic

the way you argue is just annoying

[vivid vessel]

[red zinc]

most unproductive thing ive ever read

[neat heart]

@civic zephyr youve been nothing but rude this entire time and then change the discussion lol, idc if the channel disagrees

[lime lake]

i like one button because its easier to level alts in tw and watch something on second monitor

[vivid vessel]

Hunter pvp player using one button rotation

[lime lake]

dont even have to pretend to pay attention now

[neat heart]

i just said i like the button and its changing wow game design

[lime lake]

[civic zephyr]

[vivid vessel]

[grave rose]

Someone make a highlander meme with only one button, there can be only one

[fair oak]

it's not changing wow game design man

[red zinc]

can they drop ptr notes already

[grave rose]

THE BUTTON

[red zinc]

[civic zephyr]

This

[vivid vessel]

Lol

[grave rose]

Shits funny as all fuck

[hybrid crown]

Can you make your bars just be one button with edit mode

[fair oak]

wow game design in m+ hasnt been centered around rotational abilities for like ever

[vivid vessel]

Not today yimy

[remote pecan]

whats worse, Being out dps'd by 1 button or by a boomer mid-late 30s?

[neat heart]

@fair oak its getting it ready for consoles and going back to being more casual

[fair oak]

it's been centered around mandatory utility

[hybrid crown]

That would be great lol

[red zinc]

why server go down otherwise

goopin

[grave rose]

bro, do you BUTTON?

[fair oak]

shit like mind soothe or poison cleanse totem or shroud or grips and shit

none of the things that the obr presses

[neat heart]

which is good

[grave rose]

got any of that BUTTON

[fair oak]

this whole game design take is insane

[neat heart]

so new players can do that

[vivid vessel]

Idk I told you this cycle had been weird, they shut down the servers every weeks, 2 days in advance for 0 reason

[vestal notch]

they are buffing fire mage why else lol

[neat heart]

less addons too, easier content

game design is changing

[lime lake]

they shut the servers down early so they can figure out how time zones and calendars work

[honest sparrow]

Did you see the new raid?

[vivid vessel]

I forgot why I hated this guy by now

[lime lake]

so far to limited success

[red zinc]

you're just blindly following every word that blizzard puts out

[vivid vessel]

But on god I'm r1 hater

[red zinc]

the new raid is worse than the current one

[hybrid crown]

I do think wow would benefit from being easier

[red zinc]

in terms of WA reliance

[vestal notch]

What game design is changing lol

[neat heart]

retail wow

[fair oak]

relax have this instead

[neat heart]

ive been very polite to everyone here

[vivid vessel]

Lol Timmy have you seen that boss with the walls on ptr

[vestal notch]

more clarity and some accesibility that also happens to be good for turbo casuals

[red zinc]

omg eepy

[vivid vessel]

Bro it was solved before it's even live

We have a map that assign where to go

For walls

[civic zephyr]

In terms of what? Cos like if they made the harder content easier, then the people that enjoy the harder content and getting rewarded for putting in more effort to learn things would give up eventually too

[vivid vessel]

It's crazy blizzard didn't anticipate this shit

[red zinc]

i thought the targeting was private aura

[vivid vessel]

It's not

[red zinc]

nah ok this is crazy

[civic zephyr]

Like there is content levels for people of all levels, so making it easier achieves what?

[red zinc]

yall picking the extremes every time lmao calm down

[vivid vessel]

But even if it was you would press a macro, doesn't change shit

[hybrid crown]

Make the top end easier yes

[neat heart]

i agree eric

also i think the majority of wow players agree

[civic zephyr]

But no one that does the top end content wants this, thats why you have heroic

[fair oak]

I think he really really just wants to play classic but also kinda wants to play retail and he can have a classic rotation in retail

[vivid vessel]

The boss is just terrible design and idk how you couldn't foresee it

[fair oak]

which is fine I guess it is what it is

[lime lake]

it was only a matter of time

[vestal notch]

didnt think it was too crazy but ill delete just in case it breaks any rules here

[neat heart]

yes epsilonee that is correct

[vivid vessel]

yes epsilonee that is correct

[neat heart]

and i wish retail wasnt as esports focused

[honest sparrow]

More easy to get into i think would go a long way. I shouldn't need to google what a talent really does. Im not sure maybe some form of ingame "guide" would be great.

[grave rose]

whats the complaint, just use the button right. basically classic right there

[red zinc]

not in terms of discord but comparing a guy who is annoying about one button rotation to THAT is a lil strange

[fair oak]

I don't think it is, you just happen to be in a class discord where most people want to get better

if you were in an ERP discord

they'd love that shit as much as you do

[hybrid crown]

I wonder what amount of people who did brood twister or stix want another boss like that where you need professionally created weak auras to kill it

[lime lake]

#assassination

[fair oak]

yo wth man sin rogues are NOT rpers

!!!

😡

[craggy barn]

but they are erotic

[lime lake]

very erotic

[vestal notch]

oh no, he was arguing that he was being polite, which while true, doesnt make his statements true

[vivid vessel]

Can't wait to have to tell most people that comes in here to use the one button rotation cause they will never get good enough most likely

[vestal notch]

i wasnt comparing that guy to obr lol

[vivid vessel]

That's great

[neat heart]

idk what guelina wrote but i didnt take anything personally

i genuinely wasnt trying to piss anyone off