outlaw

[fallen knot]

i vanish there and dont care about wasting unseen blades?

[gaunt phoenix]

If you wait for coup

you risk losing ks

every now and then you will get a feel for when it is worth to delay vanish for coup and not lose ks

like if you are at 3 blades with a guaranteed 4

then okay you can probably hold vanish

[fallen knot]

ok

but generally you vanish unless coup is ready

[gaunt phoenix]

But also this in a vacuum

[fallen knot]

so you get ks back

then ks

then coup

then vanish

[gaunt phoenix]

yeah

[fallen knot]

ok so the number i need to prio on unseen blades is either 2+2 or 4+2

rest is ignore basically

not like ignore

but

and not even prio, to be aware about

[strong cargo]

2+2 or 3+1 ? To try and send coup before vanish

If i understood what you meant correctly

[gaunt phoenix]

There is not a hard rule to wait for 2+2

Sometimes it works out

3+1 is the main one

[fallen knot]

no 2+2 i send vanish and i dont care

3+1 is ok

4 you send before vanish

i'll do a key and come back

ok i'm doing workshop

on 3rd boss i send 1cp ks always yes?

[rigid basin]

Just gotta find gaps

I typically can fit one after beams (or during if positioning is good)

After Big Blue circle decent as well

main thing is nerd necking the damn blades lol

[fallen knot]

yes

those hard counter me because i'm bad

[rigid basin]

You'll live one or two with feint

[upper pagoda]

does anyone has a SWAP macro allert WA??

[fossil pagoda]

is capos molten (hero) offhand better than a 681 crafted dagger ?

[sudden fulcrum]

what did your sim say?

[fossil pagoda]

they are equal

[keen belfry]

Solo what did I miss with UB yap just now

If I can get coup + not lose AR I’m getting coup before vanish

Wym missing a KS

[mighty pivot]

was that a patchwerk sim?

[fossil pagoda]

no

[mighty pivot]

you use capo's for bosses, so you should only sim it on a patchwerk sim. Dslice includes trash in which cudgel (and crafted weapons) would win

[fossil pagoda]

even a hero ?

[mighty pivot]

sim it for exact numbers but hero capo's is better than 681 weapons on bosses. It's a bit closer on multiple target bosses

[strange heart]

What is that aura that appears a cross?

[keen belfry]

im streaming guys

watch resil 18 gameplay

[keen belfry]

uhhh look up crosshair, i think zac has one on his page

how do i add myself to streamer thing in this discord

[radiant vessel]

where can i grab the WA i saw on stream that tells you to swap wep after boss

i keep forgetting

[mighty pivot]

channels & roles at the top of channel list

[pure silo]

My personal record

[strong cargo]

From cauldron ?

[remote pike]

guys, for m+ is there any viable way to play with gallywix mace + muzee fist?

like is is worth swapping mugzee fist with the champion offhand? and then gally mace mainhand (both mythic track)

[pure silo]

Yes

[radiant vessel]

what WA is that

[hardy thicket]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[hardy thicket]

The bottom one

[strong cargo]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[remote pike]

guys should i be swapping to the champion offhand with these bad boys? for m+.
perhaps i shouldnt even use gallywix weapon?? usually i just use crowdfavorite and then its easy to swap obv

[strange heart]

Thank you!

[copper holly]

zac lend me some of those please

[gaunt phoenix]

Dont use gally in keys

Mainhand capo

Offhand cudgel + crafted/crowd favorite

[desert tendon]

give me some please i m still 672 i dont have crest tyvm

also gimme some valor

[red zinc]

Dont get why crests arent transferrable man

who cares about top people being able to get 20 alts they do that anyway

[hybrid crown]

my main has like 800 gilded crests now lol

omg

2400 crests

thats amazing

[frosty python]

QUESTION -- my adrenaline rush uptime is like 70% and im trying to be > 90% for the entire dung. Anything I can do? I press it on CD. Any tricks or tips?

[gaunt phoenix]

everything about the rotation influences it

every global contributes to the average cooldown reduction on vanish and AR

make sure you only vanish during AR, know rtb rules, building and spending priorities

commonly i see people losing casts of killing spree over time

Ks is the priority finisher outside of stealth

so like, right after a vanish window ends, i see people hit a raw bte instead of ks

[frosty python]

possible for a quick log review to spot any major issues?

[gaunt phoenix]

are you playing the HO build

HO logs are easy

KIR logs i would need venmo $100 to read

[austere arch]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[frosty python]

lol yeah KIR build.. trying to ensure KS outside of Subterfuge windows. All good. Appreciate the tips. Just need more practice and faster CPM also -- im hovering around 75 where i might need to closer to 90

[gaunt phoenix]

the common KIR build in high keys is kind of hard to step into

with 1 rank in fan the hammer, you have to really watch pistol shot rules

you just get less raw combo points so you are punished more by not knowing outlaw stuffs

it also really likes unseen blade optimizations with trickster

which u need a weakaura for

[keen belfry]

i think my 11.2 wishlist is able to get 2fth with kir/cs/gs

[gaunt phoenix]

and is another whole thing to explain

[keen belfry]

and cto

[gaunt phoenix]

but it is in the faq

[craggy barn]

u know whats funny, last time i swapped to HO for raid, i did less dam than KIR bc i kept fucking up the easier build since im so used to KIR 1 fth

also probably bc i fucked up my hotkeys and didnt have ambush for half a pull

pepw

[gaunt phoenix]

the HO build is really 42% of the effort for very similar results

[keen belfry]

solo i think you should pin a mesage stating that grapple hook as a keyboard mind not a mousewheel bind is way better

[gaunt phoenix]

hm

[keen belfry]

i have re-bound it to E

instead of mwUP

[craggy barn]

my grapple is q

[keen belfry]

q is PS man

[craggy barn]

2 is my ps

[keen belfry]

thats gs

[craggy barn]

t is gs

[keen belfry]

t is kick

always

[craggy barn]

f is kick

[keen belfry]

thats blade flurry

[craggy barn]

alt d is flurry

shift m4 is snd cancel aura macro

[gaunt phoenix]

just watch zac play

what is he doing that you're not

[craggy barn]

being french

he eats french tacos on the daily

[lime lake]

shouldve eaten more french food

[craggy barn]

huge outlaw buff

i shoulda

i ended my france trip eating lebanese food

[desert tendon]

lebanese food is good here

tbh

[lime lake]

yeah but it doesnt make you better at outlaw

[desert tendon]

if you wanna be good at outlaw you gotta enjoy it

if you ryu it, you ll never be any good

also if you do spend 6h a day on target dummies recording with a gcd tracker and analysing

you ll be donezo

[lime lake]

yeah just eat more french tacos

[light patio]

I'm looking at murlok and other tracking sites and every rogue has heavy vers>haste>crit. all of my sims are telling me to craft crit over vers, whats the benefit of running more haste?

thats my stat breakdown w/ no buffs

[gaunt phoenix]

everyone is playing the kir build which strictly needs 19% haste

[light patio]

OH that's why. I play HO

was driving me nuts

[gaunt phoenix]

the HO build without ghostly strike can get away with 9% though it is a bit low, you can get more to help improve rng

[light patio]

i just much prefer HO

[light patio]

Why 19% haste exactly?

[gaunt phoenix]

so it becomes 25% during adrenaline rush

after alacrity bonus

the HO build has extra haste talents so it doesnt need as much from gear

though it still likes haste for energy

[light patio]

very informative, thank you

[random stirrup]

75 is def low but also if your ADR is dropping you wont have the energy to cast more

[red zinc]

man

how big is diff with feral supposed to be on rookery

this guy was 3820 and 1.5m behind (albeit before last part of dungeon which that class isnt much better on anyway)

[keen belfry]

He may not have been focused @red zinc

[red zinc]

if u aint fully locked in why are you playing

like me personally i couldnt take it if i was getting gigantogapped by a shitter that has barely timed any 19s

[keen belfry]

Timmy is EU awang awang is NA Timmy

[uneven silo]

would heroic capo be better as a mainhand compared to a max crafted mainhand?

[dark fractal]

Hook on mousewheel the fuck

[mighty pivot]

no but you should always anyway

[stuck sparrow]

is feral even good this season

[red zinc]

[stuck sparrow]

never seen them

[red zinc]

idk im crashin out

like i know outlaw just does dps and nothing else so it makes sense i top

but idk what more i can do in some of these keys

[keen belfry]

You can’t carry keys

Not 18s/19s

Team game

[red zinc]

yet all these dogs are 3.8

[stuck sparrow]

I think feral is fr the only melee i never tried seriously

[red zinc]

im not tipping either so the attempts i get are limited

[stuck sparrow]

its too similar to rogue

but worse

[glass mortar]

feral bangs

meteos streams very high feral keys

strong cds and very good uncapped dam

solid ST as well

i just find it boring

its like sin but it doesnt really scale resource wise that well with aoe

so u still have downtime even on aoe

[wintry solar]

I miss Bac

[sinful pawn]

hey , its my 1st full day as an outlaw , i can buy 2x items with chips ( have first 2 bosses down on mythic ) and i can craft a 681 piece ( my off hand is a dagger that was meant to be for assasin ) aany suggestion or guide ?

[molten oasis]

If your playing Keys get the nightfall wep it takes 30 mins bis off hand for AOE

It’s in pins

[sinful pawn]

i have it in my bag and im a raid booster

[molten oasis]

Ah yes okey

[sinful pawn]

so idk what to buy now

and what to craft

[frail veldt]

I mean

You can be the reason the key was timed

[keen belfry]

ye

[frail veldt]

Like there are def times where if I hadnt done like 30% more DPS than the other two then we could not have timed

[molten oasis]

Make a main hand wep unless got the 2rd boss on farm

[keen belfry]

yeahwow carrying is diff i guess

[frail veldt]

But usually I'm failing keys cuz of route/deaths

Yeah you can't 1v1 the dungeon

[sinful pawn]

i can buy it right now

but i mean do i buy capo rn or 2nd boss weapon

[molten oasis]

It’s most people’s “bis” with capo off hand at 671 ilvl

[sinful pawn]

or 1st boss trinket

[molten oasis]

Personally I’d never buy first first 2 mainly coz it’s so free to just kill it

[sinful pawn]

yea also true

so do i go for capo ? and what do i craft instead?

[molten oasis]

What I did

[sinful pawn]

im still confused

[molten oasis]

Why?

[sinful pawn]

ok so lets say i dont buy the 2nd boss weap or 1st boss trinket

other than capo i can buy another item and also craft smth

confused what to do with the vendor and the craft piece

[molten oasis]

If you look at the pin about buying it should let you know you can spend stuff on the first 2 bosses it’s Truly up to you I personally just wouldn’t waist my tokens on first 2 if I have them on farm

[frosty python]

is a heroic CAPO offhand still better than a 684 haste/vers offhand?

[red zinc]

for st yes

[frosty python]

for single target bosses?

dang ok -- gotta get that Gallywix kill/use dinars

[molten oasis]

In st yes

[long barn]

When or do they ever unlock mythic raid so you can join multi groups and not be saved

[sudden fulcrum]

not soon enough

historically i don't think it has ever happened

[long barn]

Really I thought it did at end of season

Once like all the server world top 200 or whatever was done

[vivid vessel]

@red zinc m

the aoe node

in dfc

i think you were right

its giga

[red zinc]

I COOKED

zac

[vivid vessel]

ye but because on 22

i die on the aoe of the last boss

tyhe circle

with jhust feint

[red zinc]

how much dps does feral do in rookery compared to you

[vivid vessel]

same as me

[red zinc]

lmao

[vivid vessel]

why

[red zinc]

3820 feral in my rookery 19

1.5m behind

[vivid vessel]

I mean feral does the same damage as me in most keys

ok nvm

i guess

i outdps him

most of the times

like 1mil ahead

not really in rookery tho

but idk rookery is all on me

if im in a gamer mental or not

cause its so hard to play as outlaw

this key

[long barn]

Rook is hard to get KS off safely no?

[vivid vessel]

yes

[red zinc]

eh

[vivid vessel]

• so many things that cucks your uptime

[long barn]

That’s how I feel. I mean you have to really be on point

[red zinc]

idk man im done with keys unless i get adopted by some premade again

[long barn]

Yea and the downtime blows

[red zinc]

mfs asking for tips just to be the anchor themselves

piss off

[keen belfry]

i have 1 viewe

y

[novel timber]

why do we rtb immediately after kir and is there any time we dont want to do that?

[gaunt phoenix]

if you kir a bunch of buffs from cto that isnt a natural 5

you roll immediately because you are likely to gain net buff uptime

if you kir a natural 5, you dont roll immediately, you wait until those buffs approach 39s remaining

if you did roll immediately you risk overriding like a 55s 5 buff into 39s

basically after you press kir, your buffs dont get rolled away, but u can override them with the same buff again which will munch the duration

[long barn]

Any idea why this is higher than normal?

[gaunt phoenix]

at a 4 buff it just happens to be worth the risk

[novel timber]

and when we say immediately do we mean like the very next gcd or do we have some grace if rtb isn’t up for a couple seconds after

[gaunt phoenix]

just when rtb is off cd

you dont hold rtb for kir or whatever

you just roll when you gotta roll

[novel timber]

and do we roll aggressively for natural 5’s or are some 2’s worth keeping and hoping cto gets us there for kir?

i appreciate the info btw i hope im not asking too dumb of questions

[gaunt phoenix]

if you have only 2 buffs then you always roll over them, chances are you will just get 2 again (65% chance) or 17% chance they become 5

if you have 2 buffs + 1 CTO, and kir is ready/nearly ready, then you should try to wait for the 4th

it's not dumb, the kir build is quite a lot going on

while the HO build is afk

[novel timber]

just switched from HO and its definitely a lot more fun. biggest trouble i’m having after comparing logs with other outlaws is my RtB buffs uptime is kinda dog rn so im trying to find where im going wrong

[gaunt phoenix]

do you use zac's rtb weakaura with the borders

[novel timber]

i didn’t know he had a rtb weak aura i just thought he had a UI one

[gaunt phoenix]

https://wago.io/TIgC_QiQz

it shows you the buffs that will be lost when you roll (red or blue border)

yellow means they are ahead of the rtb container and will not be rolled away

like when you press kir they all turn yellow

[novel timber]

ooooh i see

[gaunt phoenix]

like this

you know you just KIR'd a natural 5 buff so you wait until they approach 39s to roll once

[novel timber]

genuinely didn’t know you could lose some and keep others because they belonged to different groups of rolls

[fair sparrow]

I DONT KNOW ANYHTING ABOUT OUTLAW BUT I FULL SEND ON KIR

[gaunt phoenix]

here you can roll again

you might lose GM+BT cause they are red

[torpid fiber]

it's a really funny mechanic 🙂

[gaunt phoenix]

but it's still worth

basically if you are missing a buff, and 0-2 buffs are blue/red, you can roll

[novel timber]

would it still be with if those 2 were blue

[torpid fiber]

honestly container theory is way easier to simplify down as "you don't lose kir rolls when you rtb" and I think if they wanted to keep the gameplay but fix the weirdness they could just add "Next time you use RtB these buffs aren't rerolled" to KiR's description

[gaunt phoenix]

ya red/blue is the same result, they are both lost when you rtb

technically red/blue could be the same color you dont need to distinguish

[novel timber]

oh okay that’s a lot simpler

[torpid fiber]

it's actually really simple in gameplay vs the current theory behind it being slightly more confusing

[gaunt phoenix]

idk. i dont trust them to work it out the container stuff feels like an accident

[novel timber]

yeah i think just reading it is a lot but while playing it’s just more intuitive maybe

[gaunt phoenix]

it is kinda

[novel timber]

one last question i promise but why do we roll at 39s and not at 29s?

[torpid fiber]

I think it's an accident but accidents can be positive

[novel timber]

on a natural 5

[gaunt phoenix]

because at 39s they are still yellow

when you roll

so you could roll again even

[torpid fiber]

I think KiR plays better with keeping rolls

[novel timber]

ah and 29 you can override all of them

[gaunt phoenix]

really you should roll at 41s or 40s

well i guess the WA will say 39 when it is really like 39.81

the buffs need to be ahead of 39 for it to stay yellow

[novel timber]

i see i see

[torpid fiber]

oh huh i didn't know that part that's neat

[gaunt phoenix]

xddd

it's a failure to communicate the mechanic

the container buff is never ahead of 39s, so they have to be >39s to be ahead of the container

[novel timber]

thanks a lot for the help

[torpid fiber]

yayayaya that makes sense

i just never thought it through that way

[gaunt phoenix]

i think the next tier faq should have pictures of the WA and describing scenarios where you roll or dont roll

assuming we still have weakauras by then

[torpid fiber]

this reminds me next tier i am going to try to figure out if i can find a way to make my personal luxthos edit support incorporating non-luxthos RtB auras cleanly

[mighty pivot]

they are not changing anything with addons next tier, so the only way the RtB WA won't be useful is if they make class changes

[gaunt phoenix]

luckily the world is playing kir and there doesnt seem to be mass confusion on how to do it

so i guess somewhere people get it

yeah i know it's not next tier

[fair sparrow]

i dont know what im doing

i dont know when to pistol shot

i dont know when to roll

i only know when to press kir

[wintry solar]

Based

[steady onyx]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[keen belfry]

i have mastered

workshop

[sudden fulcrum]

oh yeah? show video of going through maze first try

[wintry solar]

Have you mastered talking to women?

[torpid fiber]

do u think any outlaw player has? no shot

most women don't appreciate our understanding of beauty

[sudden fulcrum]

can confirm am sin player w/ gf

[wintry solar]

I know I havent

Talked to a girl the other day

Absolutely not doing that again

[keen belfry]

no because they talk to me so i dont have to

amirite guys?

[wintry solar]

This is a safe place

[keen belfry]

why isnt anyone wtaching my stream

[wintry solar]

Because you talk to girls

I'd watch but I'm at work

[keen belfry]

sirawang69

ty

[frail veldt]

Reported for self promo

[vivid vessel]

washed arcane mage reroller

[sudden fulcrum]

shots fired

[steady onyx]

I used to have this outlaw weak aura that showed BTE if it fit in the stealth window and you should push it or dispatch if not. It also tracked vanish cd for the decision. Anyone have this?

[keen belfry]

go to bed lil bro

didnt your name used to be green

[vivid vessel]

oh right

its 5 am

dude

im cooked

brb

[glass mortar]

????

go to bed

bozo

[vivid vessel]

i forgot

💀

[glass mortar]

??????????

[keen belfry]

tune in weran

tune in delve*

[torpid fiber]

you could probably make this yourself pretty easily

[mighty pivot]

he forgor

i tuned in and instadead

[sudden fulcrum]

unlucky

how did he die?

[mighty pivot]

extractor aoe I think not sure

it literally opened and he died

[sudden fulcrum]

oh no no no no

not the ground swirlies right?

i'm not sure what else it does

[stuck sparrow]

Reminding myself why i dont read wow reddit

mage most squishy

[mighty pivot]

reddit almost challenges wowhead comments

[craggy barn]

we didnt kill mugzee sadge

gotta get past last gaols

woth people alive on post charge mines

[carmine verge]

is dodging mugzee's gaols with hook hard?

[dapper herald]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[bright crane]

what food should i use if not using feat

feast

nvm iuts in faw

faq

[rigid basin]

Forbidden Flounder

[carmine verge]

is it possible to make a conditional macro to use sinister strike outside of stealth and use ambush inside of stealth with the same keybind?

[craggy barn]

!ambush

[ornate heath]

It is possible to use a macro to cast Ambush during Stealth/Audacity and Sinister Strike otherwise, instead of using the stealth bar:
/cast [known: Hidden Opportunity, bonusbar:1] Ambush ; Sinister Strike
*This is most useful to swap between HO and KIR builds without changing keybinds.
Stance swap delay is, for now, not an issue since we don't want to cast vanish into ambush anymore.

[craggy barn]

this

sadge no m raid vault bc we are extendo time

[sudden fulcrum]

[craggy barn]

we got it next week for sure tho

[rigid basin]

If it makes you feel better I was asked to play my rogue for 20 mins before having to swap back to MW before we kill mug

[craggy barn]

lol

[rigid basin]

Thanks RL

[craggy barn]

funnily we dont have a mw

er thought u said ww

we have a mw

[rigid basin]

I got my parse invalidated for abusing the sheiluns bug

[craggy barn]

LOL

our mw is also named shik

[rigid basin]

Oh that's funny

The only toon I have named shik is my Leezard that I haven't played since like DF s2

Worth boss deadge

[light patio]

Is there any guide on what we're doing with the new belt on Tuesday for Outlaw?

[sudden fulcrum]

there's a pin in #assassination - can't see why it would be different for outlaw

because it's just a damage proc

[light patio]

ty

[fossil lintel]

Outlaw scales like shit with secondaries so it's likely better for outlaw

iirc it was 3.1% for outlaw in ST

3.7% for ST

[sudden fulcrum]

that makes me a lot more pumped about it

[craggy barn]

mugzee is fun but god damn is all this damage holding annoying

[carmine verge]

it functioned kinda weird

this one:
/cast [stance] Ambush; Sinister Strike
managed to do what I wanted it to do, but I don't know if it'll conflict with stuff

[craggy barn]

it shouldnt conflict with anything

its only sketch if u swap between ho and kir builds without the "known:" bit

and u share bars

[hardy thicket]

The special item story arch for outlaw continues

special effects rather*

How many seasons now have special effect items indirectly buffed Outlaw by like 1-3%

[stuck timber]

If I time all dungeons +12 on my main, can I use my cartel chips to buy mythic trinket for my alt?

[hardy thicket]

no

you need to time it on your alt

[stuck timber]

Damn

I just leveled one don't wanna do delves lol :p

Thanks

[pliant wave]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[brisk meadow]

Do you reduce ks staggered damage with feint?

Even pressed after ks or does it only work when you pressed it before

[pliant wave]

Staggered damage doesnt reduce

Only work it before damage

[brisk meadow]

aight

ty

[rapid ore]

good to know lol

[novel socket]

does evasion work in mythic mug mines like it does in heroic ?

where we take no dmg at all from the soak

the soak of the mine itself, not the two pieces soak that comes after

[vivid vessel]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[random stirrup]

yes face the mine

[novel socket]

thanks

[random stirrup]

actually im not entirely sure

it did some damage to me

but nowhere near as much as walking into it without evasion

*you will evasion the physical component of the mine but you will take a large magic hit

youll live

[novel socket]

yeah that's what i thought it would happen

but was not sure if i can survive that in mythic

gonna start progress on him on Monday

[random stirrup]

ye i wouldn't volunteer to help soak a set without cloak

[hot olive]

zac ur video disc says dfc but its TOP

[random stirrup]

and you probably are immune soaking so u want that

[novel socket]

yeah i'm on the fire soak

thanks for the info

[random stirrup]

[vivid vessel]

what

true ty

[hybrid mesa]

is it normal for KIR builds to feel energy starved? i have 19% haste but it feels like unless i have 5 buffs im just giga useless

[silver remnant]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[random stirrup]

should be relatively rare

[remote pecan]

Normal, no. It can happen if you get an unlucky streak and dont get many ace procs. but if you're finding it a regular occurrence you may be making rotational mistakes with your builder priority.

[random stirrup]

its a bit more common with the 1fth build on st, you can get pretty griefed if you roll 1 buff or non-resource 2 buffs multiple times in a row

but still shouldnt feel starved all the time

[deft dome]

Hey guys! It's been years since I played with my Rogue and I was planning to level up mine and play as an alt. I was wondering, how fun is Outlaw now? Talking gameplay wise, not just big damage. Is it fun to play?

[latent oak]

it is very fun to play, but i think the consensus is that its quite rough to level as

i would highly reccoment it at max level tho

[vivid vessel]

bro

the belt

is litteraly a dps loss in aoe

isnt that crazy

why cant blizzard just put stats on it

[jolly geyser]

No

[deft dome]

Mine is already lv71 because It was my main during some point back in DF, but thanks! 🙂

[red zinc]

Even with the nerfed vers stat proc?

[vagrant bear]

How good is Outlaw is the current raid? Does it perform well?

[lime plank]

Is there a macro to equip capos and night cudgel

[daring oxide]

That’s normal when you are spamming SS

[keen belfry]

if u have to press ss 3 times in a row u have 0 energy

[earnest basalt]

@lime plank should be in the pinned messages

[balmy scaffold]

@edgy eagle

[keen belfry]

my bad

[red zinc]

Literal krill issue

[keen belfry]

i shouldve sat up more

[hollow rampart]

or vanish the mine

[jolly geyser]

bad aim smh

[keen belfry]

bad crosshairplacement with my ps

[crimson thicket]

Yeah, I knew I wasn't going crazy. Second time in a row when I reached the first boss in Priory, it wouldn't let me weaponswap and it said on my weapon that it couldn't be changed in the middle of a mythic dungeon.

Any idea why this happens?

[random stirrup]

are you trying to swap the gallywix weapon

[crimson thicket]

yes, oops

thats why

im stupid

i have to have gallywix mh

i assume

[stiff glade]

you don't wanna use gally weap in keys at all

[crimson thicket]

oh

OH

okay

[rapid ore]

can i skip those 2 machines in motherlode with evasion vanish?

[agile orchid]

What’s wrong with gally weapon

Isn’t it the same as a normal weapon with an extra proc?

[gaunt phoenix]

you cant swap it

[agile orchid]

Interesting

[crimson thicket]

yeah ive been griefing last two days

woopsie

[frosty python]

is AR uptime dependent on tank constantly pulling or 100% on my rotation and messing up?

[mighty pivot]

even if they don't pull constantly you can stealth and retain your AR

[keen belfry]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wanton violet]

havent been on outlaw since s3 of DF when 98+% uptime of AR was easy. Im averaging 80-85% uptime for a key. obv higher or lower because of my mistakes, is that average or am I messing more up than I see

[hardy thicket]

Saying 98% AR was easy makes me kinda doubt you are serious

but yeah 80-85% means theres room for improvement

if it hasnt changed much its usually 80-85 is decent/ok and 90%+ is good 95%+ is really really good

[red zinc]

Don’t think AR uptime has changed that much

Like maybe 1-2% lower on average if at all

[wanton violet]

old HO CTO was like free AR uptime

[hardy thicket]

yeah aint no way in hell you were 98% AR:ing in keys

[hybrid crown]

If the trash packs die fast it's much easier to do

It depends on what level

[hardy thicket]

what

[hybrid crown]

Your uptime is higher in farm keys like vault 10s or 12s

[hardy thicket]

Yeah but you are not sitting at 98% average ADR uptime not then not now even if ur in 10s or 12s

thats just gross overestimation

[hybrid crown]

Oh yeah not today

Maybe in a lucky run

[red zinc]

is there any way to remove inactive time from WCL easily

got some s3 logs rn

but hard to see combat AR uptime

[random stirrup]

if its details sure

very possible

my memory is a bit worse of df 3 but i think it was also possible then

[hardy thicket]

Sigh not saying it wasnt possible

saying 98% AR uptime on average

was not a real thing

98% AR uptime would've been top percentile

[hybrid crown]

was DF ADR uptime better than today ADR uptime now I am struggling to recall

I feel like today is better at least due to RTB being way more fool proof

I found a priory log I did with 98% uptime

[frail veldt]

It was similar

[hybrid crown]

it was a 10 tho

[hardy thicket]

if anything its one or two percent less now if I were to just make a wild guess but i have no idea

[red zinc]

as long as you're consistently getting more than 90 right now it doesnt matter

shits still rng end of the day

the uptime is only an easy barometer to see whether you're trolling or not

stops at a certain point

[gilded plover]

hi guys , i have 3 tokens now to buy something from Wrexxel the vendor in front of the vault . i only play m+ keys shouild i buy capos weapon or something else ?

[fair sparrow]

Can someone link me to rtb logic? I for some reason can’t click on the faq links on phone

[quick quail]

hey guys. How do we play killingspree on Gallywyx? Is there a pattern where it lands us? To me it seems kinda random but I am focusing on mechs rather than watching where I land it sice it's our first night on gally. I miss a lot of casts just to play it safe cos it lads me into sparks for example. Even the start is just one KS before it starts the laser game.

[gilded plover]

it lands there from where you start killingspree

[quick quail]

during the cast not after bruh

cos it doesnt jump around on gally

[gilded plover]

okay that one i cant answer

[ember goblet]

what is the add-on that shows you in range or not as outlaw?

!

[crisp condor]

https://wago.io/LWuNIXaB9 This weakaura?

[fathom bramble]

it places you perfectly behind him unless that position is not available then it sends you all the way infront of him,

whenever his head is floating in the middle you get placed around where his robot body is left behind

[quick quail]

thanks

[fathom bramble]

"Not available" meaning off the edge of the platform

it will happily place you in any ground effects as normal

[unique dagger]

is nightfall event bugged?

[sudden fulcrum]

it definitely has been in the past but what do you mean?

[unique dagger]

cant seem to finish it, the objective tab just disappeared

lmao nvm it just reappeared now after 5 minutes

[sudden fulcrum]

oh yeah it does that sometimes, just stay there

[unique dagger]

yeah ^^

[sour gulch]

I just googled main gauche and noticed that it’s a French term for left hand lol

I didn’t know that

[vivid badge]

so no matter what buffs I have I roll the bones if I have 1 or 2 buffs?

[sour gulch]

Or refers to a parrying dagger

[vivid badge]

as KIR Trickster

[hybrid crown]

And yet outlaw doesn't have dagger on their loot spec 😕

[sour gulch]

When the mastery becomes good

We’ll get to that

I don’t remember the last time our mastery was worth it

[hardy thicket]

Yes

[vivid badge]

ok

is this wa good to use

https://wago.io/Pd53s_NPU

[worldly shale]

is ho way worse than kir?

and saw some people not running clugel at all

[sweet yoke]

extremely impressive from these non comms maniacs in this dk bamkin arcane economy

https://tenor.com/view/respect-hats-off-kid-gif-11975705

[worldly shale]

how is a warr*or ahead

cheater

[sweet yoke]

no minor and cudgel is a rather minmax you can do but prob most high end people doing it

[worldly shale]

just saw lashga running ho and dagger offhand

only reason why i even asked, i always just ran kir clugel into capo bosses

[random stirrup]

well...

[worldly shale]

XD

[sweet yoke]

deleted my comment since a bit unneccessary but yeah lashga is prob not fully optimiszed if I had to guess, think he mainly plays sub

[sweet yoke]

sounds good

[worldly shale]

he does, i ran only a lil bit of sub at start of season so wanted to check on his logs and saw hes streaming

didnt expect outlaw

[sweet yoke]

yyy fairs

I also peek a bit on him here and then, think he is a bit stuck and trying out a bit assa and outlaw but yeah

[red zinc]

lashga

[worldly shale]

tbh both specs outperform sub by alot

[red zinc]

he got banned from this discord for homophobia and then couldnt time a floodgate 18 resi for 3 days straight

[worldly shale]

it could possibly be considered trolling taking sub over either of the two

[sweet yoke]

if you wanna check an outlaw player, zac/tomelvis which is in my screenshot is a safe bet. he puts out some extreme numbers

[worldly shale]

im just watching him wipe on first pack of dfc for the 3rd time

but valid

[red zinc]

truly the resi key goat

(cant time any of them)

[worldly shale]

oh ye im watching zac, i just wanted to check a sub

but unlucky XD

[random stirrup]

lashga does not have a good reputation around here

[worldly shale]

i do understand that now

[red zinc]

i dont really care about it

just a funny character

[sweet yoke]

then I reccommend this guy https://twitch.tv/salatikue ! streams daytime eu time most weekdays😃 speaks mostly russian but solid gamer, sub exclusive and seems like a pretty chill guy

[worldly shale]

OOOH

thats the top logger

[vivid vessel]

ye

its the true r1 sub

he is a sub one trick

dont believe lashga lies

lashga got boosted in s1 to take r1 sub

[hasty warren]

There's a way to track when u have big hit on bandit or it's impossible ?

[vivid vessel]

not real

fr fr

[worldly shale]

damn u guys really hate that lashga character

[vivid vessel]

well

what did i say that was hate

[worldly shale]

probably nothing, but everything i heard about him was negative for the past 10 minutes haha

[covert kestrel]

Also if you see any of his streams, he is extremely toxic to a lot of people

[worldly shale]

I DID see him making a note for a guy

calling him a dog

[covert kestrel]

Yup

Just unhinged behavior all around but really came to light when he came into this discord to brag about r1 and it was so obviously boosted

[nova sinew]

no more horrible sub cooks 🥰

[civic zephyr]

How is outlaw doing in m+?

[crisp condor]

Rank 1 rogue is Outlaw and is in top 40 chars in the world (all specs)

[late swallow]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1106224572811984956/1367129809951395871/9sftfb.gif

Rest in piss!

[vivid vessel]

top 23 i heard

[worldly shale]

ACCTUALLY TOP 14

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-well-actually-as-a-matter-of-fact-gif-27665011

[crisp condor]

Technically tied for 20th since your entire team has the same IO

[civic zephyr]

St wise how is it ?

[crisp condor]

Or whatever number if you count the other ties which cba

[civic zephyr]

Unholy dk main and im considering making an alt

[worldly shale]

23 actually mb

[crisp condor]

Oh you guys got the 21 Brew, gz

Top non CN players

[cinder relic]

Good st good aoe

Not the best at either

[stuck sparrow]

@cinder relic whats the logic of maghar being better than regular orcs

[covert kestrel]

[stuck sparrow]

isnt primary typically better

[random stirrup]

insane

insane work

[covert kestrel]

The mental gymnastics gold medal

[cinder relic]

For what spec

[crisp condor]

On Bloodmallet it's like 3k DPS difference which might as well be error

[civic zephyr]

If you were to compare it to an arms warrior what would you say ?

[cinder relic]

In dungeons?

[civic zephyr]

I love both spec and im having a hard time to choose

For m+ mostly yeah

[stuck sparrow]

most 2min specs

favor maghar over regular orc

[cinder relic]

Arms is nice because it's shout buff for melee comps but it's damage is kinda "okay"

Rogue should do more damage but shout is high value yk

[cinder relic]

Maghar racial gives like 1.5k more stats

Or 2k I forget

[civic zephyr]

I see

[cinder relic]

Even if mainstat is better it's a lot more number

[civic zephyr]

I also feel like aoe wise outlaw is far stronger

[stuck sparrow]

4.9k vs 6.5

[civic zephyr]

But im afraid outlaw is hard to play

[stuck sparrow]

But isnt primary like worth twice as much

[civic zephyr]

Idk if it is or not

[cinder relic]

Not usually no

[crisp condor]

Playing Outlaw is like eating a chocolate chip cookie where occasionally the chocolate chip is actually shit

[cinder relic]

Depends on the spec, might be like, 1.3-1.5x as much value

[crisp condor]

The shit is killing spree flavoured

[cinder relic]

It's hard but it's rewarding

Might as well give it a try

[stuck sparrow]

I guess im just surprised by the sheer gap

[cinder relic]

Worst case you can swap sin

[stuck sparrow]

and usually burst cd races fall behind as we get more geared

in favor of % racials

[cinder relic]

IIRC things that add stats don't get affected by the Dr

[civic zephyr]

My outlaw rogue is like 632 ilvl it sims at 4.5m dmg in aoe without raid buff and i can only manage to get it to 3.4m lol

[cinder relic]

So that might be part of the added value

[crisp condor]

For Outlaw isn't Tauren/Dwarf already the best because of the % racials?

[cinder relic]

It's because no racial is good for outlaw mostly

No cd to combine with blood fury/avnestors/berserking

[stuck sparrow]

Yeah because if the proposed value of the two orcs is similar calculating the value of primary

[valid tartan]

stoneform too good

saves me a few times a key

[stuck sparrow]

then why is maghar stronger

[valid tartan]

just gotta know when to press it

[stuck sparrow]

maybe its not affected by dr

[crisp condor]

A lot of classes that like Maghar it's because Mastery is gigabusted for them

[covert kestrel]

Remove all combat aspects of racials!

[stuck sparrow]

Yeah but usually orcs fall behind by late second tier

like if primary is 1.5x secondary you’d think 5k ap is more than 6.5k mast

[valid tartan]

dwarf man

saves u from the only shit that can actually kill u

alive = maximum dps

[stuck sparrow]

dwarf i would say is the most well rounded race

[crisp condor]

Tauren DPS, an actually useful on-use, and not-arse visuals

Unfair

[keen belfry]

how much boss dmg do you lose as outlaw when you spawn the add on first boss mecha

[crisp condor]

Guess you lose 5% blade flurry damage from precise cuts

On one boss

[cinder relic]

I mean go do a quick stat weights Sim and u can see a rough idea of the value of stats

Depends on the spec ofc but Ik vers/agi/mast is all close for sub for example at this point

[crisp condor]

I thought stat weights was deprecated

[cinder relic]

Stat weights are a bad tool for finding upgrades but they do tell u a rough idea of what stats u want

[valid tartan]

you would gain more dps

from deft

right?

[crisp condor]

Huh, fair

[ripe ibex]

is it ever worth over capping cp to spend unseen blade if you are like one away from cdg

[cinder relic]

Like using stat weights + pawn to find dps upgrades is bad

[keen belfry]

this sounds wrong in my head

[cinder relic]

Using stat weights for purely conceptual reasons is more than fine, as long as u are aware of its limitations

[ripe ibex]

there is times when it feels like the right thing to do

[cinder relic]

Stuff like as u get more stats, other stats gain/lose value

It's why top gear is just more effective

[crisp condor]

Deft is 4+ targets so you shouldn't be using it with the extra dude

[keen belfry]

like press SS at 3 UB if you have guaranteed one + 6/7 cps?

[stuck sparrow]

tauren racial is butt

[keen belfry]

i do this all the time @ripe ibex

[ripe ibex]

yeah

me too

especially if i don’t have time

to spend

and ss cdg

but idk if it’s actually good

or just feels good

probably a hard thing to prove in sims tho

[crisp condor]

Probably minor enough you can just feelscraft it and be fine

[keen belfry]

i wonder if theres a (if max opp stacks) its bad

who has the math on PC doing more dmg to off target in 2 target cleave

[mighty pivot]

#outlaw message green column. But there are other factors like GS which doesn't amplify cleave

[keen belfry]

what am i reading

looks lit tho

you do more dmg to off target in 4 target cleave?

[mighty pivot]

with PC and GM yes. But that doesn't take into account things that aren't cleaving and GS which only amplifies damage to the debuffed target and not the cleave

[keen belfry]

interesting

[ripe ibex]

@keen belfry hey man i was watching that

[keen belfry]

fuck

i have to play a cs game

wanna watch @ripe ibex

[ripe ibex]

i don’t fw cs

[keen belfry]

im gonna be so bad man

[abstract nest]

Hey, new to the spec, but can I short cut and sim ST to represent all situations for droptimiser and topgear, or does deft maneuvers/ some other talent prevent that

[old gull]

So are rotational weak auras gonna be gone too?

[strong cargo]

Usually St for raid, dslice for m+

[drowsy pebble]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[vale warren]

If you gs an off target does blade flurry get boosted on that target

[gaunt phoenix]

It should but it doesn't

[fathom whale]

is there a reason why grapple hook just doesnt connect with the ground sometimes and goes on cd lmao

[mighty pivot]

it's when there is anything blocking the los to the point you grapple

but sometimes it can be the tiniest object

[fathom whale]

used it in dorn to get to the AH, must be similar to blink aye

[mighty pivot]

ye it's easy to constantly fail the grapple in dornogal if you have a lamp or whatever in front of you. It's great design that it doesn't refund you the hook

[wary bridge]

sup new outlaw here 🙂

[keen belfry]

RUN!

[vapid sundial]

wiener

shut up

[keen belfry]

errr stay

[knotty needle]

you can check out any time you like but you can never leave

[wintry solar]

Monkey boy

[knotty needle]

what's that supposed to mean

[wintry solar]

Idk

Oo oo aa aa

[knotty needle]

it's because im marked as assa isnt it

discrimination

[wintry solar]

Maybe

Okay yes

[knotty needle]

look i play every spec i have more rogues than i have braincells

i just picked assa because it was the nicest color

[wintry solar]

Hmmmm

Okay

You're good

Idk you play sub though

[knotty needle]

i do play a lot of sub in pvp

[wintry solar]

I knew it

[knotty needle]

i dont pve sub i promise

[wintry solar]

That's worse

You pvp with sub

.>

[knotty needle]

i pvp with every spec

but mostly sub

[wintry solar]

Imagine not being a 1 trick

[knotty needle]

i mean if you only pvp as rogue arent you basically a 1 trick

[wintry solar]

I pvp with dk and warrior too

Every melee tbh

Melee is best form of combat

[knotty needle]

yeah i play
arcane mage in pvp

saw a magegod clip once it was inspiring

im sure you understand

[wintry solar]

I want to say yes

But

Scaredy cats play ranged

Surv is on thin ice

Oh!

I learned about armored MMA the other day

[knotty needle]

i play blood dk in random bgs sometimes

to bully people

[wintry solar]

That's fun

Blood and prot warr are fun in bgs

Dude prot warr

What a fun spec

[knotty needle]

yeah maybe if they ever release a good elite set for dk i'll bother playing arena but probably play frost for that

[wintry solar]

Idk why a lot of people got hyped for the current dk set

[knotty needle]

i think it sucks

i mean the elite does

[wintry solar]

It's okay at best

[knotty needle]

the mythic color of it is actually why i made a blood dk

[wintry solar]

It doesn't stand out from other dk sets

[knotty needle]

i think it as the kids say
goes hard

[wintry solar]

Now

Df s3

That was tough

[knotty needle]

eh idk i dont like any of the dragonflight sets for dk

i mean they're ALRIGHT

but they're no dragonflight priest sets

[wintry solar]

The priests got so lucky

[knotty needle]

for sure

[wintry solar]

It's really not fair to compare

[knotty needle]

maybe so

but point being is the dk elite sets and pvp set in general
idk the tier set colors were better

[wintry solar]

Hey look

[knotty needle]

but i didnt play dk in dragonflight so

[wintry solar]

I'm df s1 sets

[knotty needle]

dude the tier one sets in dragonflight are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO bad

every single class

are garbage

[wintry solar]

And people were HYPED FOR IT

How???

[knotty needle]

shaman wasnt so bad actually

BUT THE OTHERS ARE TRASH

[wintry solar]

Shaman has homefield advantage with sets like that tbf

I didn't complete a single s1 set

Not even 1800

In no world would i ever use any of that crap

[wintry solar]

That's a lie, I did get 1800 on my rogue

But it's so bad I forget

When cowboy rogue set?

We only get assassins, void ninjas, and pirates

That sounds entitled my b

[hybrid crown]

This is honestly great I agree

[knotty needle]

blizzard looked at this and was like "oh yeah. that's a rogue set."

i mean the individual pieces can work in transmog obviously
but the sets
so bad

[wintry solar]

Tbh

I haven't used anything from df

They're all bfa or sl

On my rogue at least

[knotty needle]

i use the chestpiece from the non elite rogue set in a transmog

one of my outlaw rogues

[cinder relic]

This sert is so sick

[wintry solar]

I use the red and black dungeon set from bfa

It's a perfect match with the dreadblades mog

Which is also how I rate a rogue mog. By how well it matches with any given Dreadblades skin.

[knotty needle]

actually true

and relatable

[fair oak]

Hello, I'm fairly new to outlaw and just want to kind of get a feel of how the rotation flows generally, do you guys aim to have a killing spree between every vanish cast? Cause that's sort of how it's been going for me

I understand there are optimizations to do with coup and the no cd from ks but just in general

(This is in m+)

[wintry solar]

If the KS cooldown has like 10-15 seconds left of the cooldown I typically just hold the vanish and KS

I think that's the rule anyway

[fair oak]

you send ks inside the vanish window?

[wintry solar]

Never

[fair oak]

[gaunt phoenix]

You don't really "aim" to get a KS before each vanish

[wintry solar]

It just kinda happens

[gaunt phoenix]

If KS cooldown is under 20s or so then you try not to vanish

so you can KS first and not lose cooldown reduction on it

since you cannot KS in stealth, if you vanish with KS almost ready then you will lose a ton of cdr on it

But sometimes you still have to vanish regardless of KS because you need to maintain AR

[fair oak]

I see, so just slam on cd but don't waste the bte spam cdr as much as I can

[wintry solar]

Unless holding vanish would drop ar

But yeah

Adr would probably be back relatively soon anyway

[fair oak]

ty friends

[wintry solar]

[knotty needle]

and they made outlaw feel like so much LESS of a pirate you know

[wintry solar]

I don't like thinking about it because it makes me sad

[haughty wigeon]

https://tenor.com/view/gun-slinger-gun-slinging-cowboy-red-dead-gif-15753058

outlaw started as pirate fantasy

then slowly but surely turbed to outlaw (criminal) fantasy

which i find to be better/ flexable

[wintry solar]

Meh

Too broad for me

[glass mortar]

they didnt like how specific they made the flavors in legion

[haughty wigeon]

i mean the moment they removed all the pirate named stuff in bfa

[glass mortar]

they been diluting it ever since

[wintry solar]

I like cut and dry fantasies

[haughty wigeon]

is the moment pirate outlaw died

[knotty needle]

i remember Bribe

[haughty wigeon]

dispatch used to be called run through

ss was saber slash

[wintry solar]

They added more pirate stuff in the borrowed power systems

And then never brought back

[haughty wigeon]

blunderbuss and gsw i guess?

[knotty needle]

i was there you know
on the day outlaw was unleashed on the playerbase
and let me tell you
i
would probably still rather be playing combat ngl but outlaw is cool too

[haughty wigeon]

but those are gun terms more than pirate ones

idk i feel like ho outlaw is a modernized combat

[wintry solar]

Snake Eyes and the uhhhhhh other ones

Icr

[haughty wigeon]

keep your witz

[glass mortar]

outlaw is largely a modernized combat the only thing thats really off is RtB

[haughty wigeon]

we tried adding gulie in sl

but to varied success

[wintry solar]

I remember that lol

Was only good because bugged

From what I remember

I never played it

Too stupid

[haughty wigeon]

i honestly think combat enjoyers would enjoy classic wow tbh

[wintry solar]

Old and decrepit

[haughty wigeon]

i already got the mists update

nah

some of it is fun

not just outlaw

[knotty needle]

back in my day

[wintry solar]

I meant guile

[haughty wigeon]

but nostaltic classic spec illiterations

peak was wotlk and mists for me

but i missed out on wotlk but i wont miss out on mists

[wintry solar]

The worst iteration of outlaw is better than the best iteration of combat

[knotty needle]

eh idk i dont play classic and if I did play MoP i'd probably only play Frost Mage

[wintry solar]

Fight me

[haughty wigeon]

especially how they added alot of wod prepatch shit to mists on launch

[knotty needle]

now you listen here young man

[haughty wigeon]

all of it is neat

what people dont like to talk about

[wintry solar]

I remember when wod released with the new combo points and I was pissed as to how it could've been the whole time.

[haughty wigeon]

is how combat still relied on vanish being used rotationally

[wintry solar]

Idk about relied

[haughty wigeon]

fine

"used vanish rotationally"

[wintry solar]

It added not a lot of dps

I'd argue it was just for the extra cp

[knotty needle]

yeah relied is like implies it was SOOO bad without vanish unlike current outlaw which is ya know

[haughty wigeon]

not relied but still used

[wintry solar]

Too far in the opposite direction lol

[haughty wigeon]

point is

outlaw in any illiteration used vanished rotational. now we have big reliance on vanish windows but its not like something new out of left field

[cinder relic]

They said they wanted to move away from legion specs feeling so dramatically different from each other

[knotty needle]

look this is my ideal rogue spec

[glass mortar]

oh yea i agree with them to be clear

think its better for spec archtypes to cover more fantasies if they can manage it

[hollow temple]

i dont get why outlaws take HoC

[glass mortar]

they went overboard in legion

[hollow temple]

feels so awkward

[knotty needle]

yeah that's true

[glass mortar]

because zac likes it

[cinder relic]

stat trinket

Stats scale in aoe

zac also likes it yeah

[hollow temple]

yeah but it does maybe 1% more dmg like barely any difference

[wintry solar]

Was the first heroic piece if gear I got

[cinder relic]

So ppl are just gonna play it as well

[cinder relic]

Correct

[glass mortar]

id be surprised if its even 1% more damage

all those things sim the same

[knotty needle]

they sort of try that with hero talents for example marksmanship going sentinel or dark ranger but i dont personally think it works very well

[haughty wigeon]

its something zac likes to do

[glass mortar]

and u can only use it as kir

[haughty wigeon]

for keys he does

[hollow temple]

hmm Pacemaker + Geargrinder feels 100X more fluent to play

[glass mortar]

think 1.5m feels like it would match pack pull timings better then 2m as im pugging higher keys so that parts nice

[haughty wigeon]

silly butt