outlaw

[twilit nest]

[proven ocean]

its more targetted at high m+ rogue pushers that want to share high m+ techs with each other and keep them archived in a server

with cd managements etc

and ofc bugs,exploits

[frail veldt]

thatd be sick

cuz tbh I dont know any fucking tech rn

[wintry solar]

Same. I just send it and hope for the best.

[frail veldt]

all the tech I know is where I can press KS

[rotund zodiac]

Can I join when it’s ready?

[twilit nest]

no

(yes you can)

[rotund zodiac]

[ruby gale]

I      much  thinking  execute
spent  of    about     this
way    my    how       dumb
too    time  to        joke

[twilit nest]

THIS IS COOL

@proven ocean new tech

[hasty warren]

yo

[empty elbow]

Anyone else simming 1 million more with Trickster over Fatebound?

[gaunt phoenix]

aoe sim?

[empty elbow]

yeah 5 patchwerk 5, i even took precise cuts in my Fatebound sim

[gaunt phoenix]

trickster is wildly ahead of fatebound in aoe

like at least 10%

and then HO Fatebound is also not too great, so you would ideally be KIR Fatebound, which you might not be geared for

[twilit nest]

@gaunt phoenix what are most common mistakes you generally see new outlaw dudes make?

[gaunt phoenix]

!commonerrors

[ornate heath]

Common errors for Outlaw -> see this answer in the FAQ.

[twilit nest]

im pretty new and my damage is very trash

[twilit nest]

tyvm!!

[empty elbow]

yeah definitely feeling it in my keys.

so my main issue is i feel like sometimes I have to hold killingspree for the entire fight depending on the boss like 3 boss in DFC etc. You think even if you don't get Killingspree value on those bosses it still just outperforms?

Also another outlaw i was playing with was telling me that HO benefits from up to 20% haste too now, that woxtoxic was playing around with it

[gaunt phoenix]

on dfc 3rd boss you have to send ks at low cp

low risk and is much better than holding it

[wicked acorn]

1cp ks ftw

[gaunt phoenix]

yes HO likes haste just because of energy, maybe 20% is a bit high

[wicked acorn]

Have you simmed sending low cp KS @gaunt phoenix?

[gaunt phoenix]

not exactly, i have simmed what happens if you send ks at whatever cp you have when it's available, and it's a ~4% loss

[empty elbow]

oh I never thought about that, just to get the buff from it

[runic bough]

cloak doesnt mitigate the sprocket mine debuff before popping it?

blizzard really nerfed everything for us

[wicked acorn]

Better than not sending KS by how much?

[gaunt phoenix]

Well not using KS at all is like a 15% loss

but i cant really sim "sometimes holding ks"

just kind of infer that it is Not Good

[rotund zodiac]

You can double soak if you have cloak

At least you don’t take the damage

[wicked acorn]

Thank you

[runic bough]

but we still get the debuff

after

[rotund zodiac]

But why are you doing boss mechanic, go dps da boss

[wicked acorn]

Exactly

[runic bough]

its a pug

so

its better to do mechanics for pugs

need to reduce wipe as much as possible

[wicked acorn]

Nah

[twilit nest]

it doesnt matter if the debuff is raid wide bud

lol

[rotund zodiac]

He meant the debuff for the player who soak. If they soak again, they die

[shell fossil]

dumb cook

but what if macro adrenaline rush and vanish

also to get the extra 3% haste for kir do we just run a haste pot? at 17% now with the wow bis listing except for trinks mh

[cobalt mist]

why

outlaw has like 2 buttons

[shell fossil]

also ye just craft a ring and recraft haste off existing pieces, why not?

[cobalt mist]

17% is plenty for kir

[shell fossil]

i played with 17-18% for kir last season but the write up says 20%

trying to vers max etc

[cobalt mist]

youll benefit in consistency from higher but alacrity will get you there more often than it doesnt

[fathom bramble]

you technically need 19.05% haste to reach the 25% cap with alacrity alone

generally you will end up around this haste if you have lots of gear to sim for kir

[shell fossil]

ye idk about dropping consistency for a spec that benefits from overall uptime skill deficiencies aside

[gaunt phoenix]

Since haste buffs are multiplicative you dont need 20% exactly, its just around the number your haste value will approach

17% is an awkward spot where it might be too low but then haste flask is too high

[shell fossil]

okay i think see, so i can do kir with 17% but dps optimizations and muh 20

yep

dropped to 16 and ran haste pots/gems last season buuuut

[twilit nest]

yhea solo so i sim 1.8m ST and doing 1.4m ST what the fuck

[gaunt phoenix]

Sounds like you suck ass

[twilit nest]

(on dummy)

[twilit nest]

yhea dude i suck hard

i think im following rules correctly

what else am i supposed to fucking do

[shell fossil]

1.5m on st with dungeon/no buffs is about what i see at 666 on patchwerk

[twilit nest]

im re-doing sim w/o buffs

i was doing 1.4 on dummy no buffs

yhea

im ass

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/sNx7TKbbUM9sd3Lt6qx84F

[gaunt phoenix]

what was your AR uptime

[twilit nest]

ass

72%

[shell fossil]

does the sim assume 3-6 buffs?

[gaunt phoenix]

it doesn't assume anything

[shell fossil]

i've hit 2m on sprocket with some 4-5-6 buffs before but yeah just wondering

[gaunt phoenix]

it does like 60,000 pulls

and you get the average dps

but each pull is higher or lower ofc

[twilit nest]

what is higher prio, vanishing to keep AR up and going into a crack window or letting AR drop so you can send the fucking KS

i feel like ignore KS in that situation

[gaunt phoenix]

you can see the total dps distribution if you wanted

So some very unlucky pull did 1.29m

[gaunt phoenix]

You must vanish to preserve AR

only if you are not at risk of losing AR do you prio KS / hold vanish until KS

[twilit nest]

ok

this outlaw stuff is for schizo people no?

crazy stuff

[frank finch]

LOL

[wintry solar]

This is a bad tier to try outlaw for the first time ngl

[twilit nest]

actually the lack of KIR made me try it

-1 button seems profit for me

[wintry solar]

There was lack of kir last tier as well

Also one button to make or break a spec is weird

In general, not you specifically

[twilit nest]

wasnt 1 button to make or break it

just pushed me into trying it

[twilit nest]

i wasnt aware

but outlaw is cool

[astral wind]

I'll try to get back to my outlaw roots after we've CE'd (which I'm doing mostly as Assa now). Played it in BFA and adored it and used to be a juicer but no meme I have become a dad gamer since then and idk if I can handle current outlaw 🙃

[frail veldt]

@vivid vessel How many years do you think until blizzard can make circles not randomly disappear?

[wintry solar]

Wtff

[lusty sparrow]

My personal favorite pass time is to get the beam on cauldron and use killing spree

The terror people feel

[runic bough]

[pearl girder]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[lone crow]

lmao no idea who the 2nd acc is btw but ye, in S3 it was 50 50 between Outlaw and spriest. I would say spriest was a bit better(they also have pi) but u could beat them in Overall in a couple of dungeons

And u never lost to Mage lol

[viscid forge]

!fuu

[ornate heath]

Rogue Spreadsheet - Light Version / Dark Version

[wicked acorn]

How come this build without CTO is better (being run more)?

[cinder haven]

Bit more single target

[young apex]

also probably less variance

[frail veldt]

Other way around

CTO build has less variance

Playing without CTO lowkey sucks ass

[frail veldt]

That just ain't true lol

Mage would shit on your overall in stuff like EB

Same with shadow priest

Well not entirely shit on but a good fire mage could def win

But I guess I played Aug dh disc mage rogue

[lone crow]

xD not true

U never, literally never lost to Mage. We had the fastest 3x dps keys that season in every dungeon but tott and mage never beat me

[haughty wigeon]

mage absolutely shitted on outlaw in df s3

especially in eb

idk what your talking about

[lone crow]

It did not lmao

Are u drunk

[haughty wigeon]

you know like zerross and zac are like

the peak outlaw players inthe game right?

[lone crow]

Bro what are u yapping

[haughty wigeon]

and mage especially in specific dungeons along with priest

lowkey did more than those two playing outlaw

[lone crow]

I was r1 rogue S3, our group was R5 world

No idea what ure saying but ure just wrong

Stop it

[haughty wigeon]

outlaw was still competative during that, but there was legit options

[haughty wigeon]

citation required

[lone crow]

??

[haughty wigeon]

anywho doesnt matter

df s3 was a strange season

very good

in its own way

but i didnt get my lego until i had peak blp. so it sucks donkey balls

[wintry solar]

That was the 2h leggo right

[frail veldt]

You can beat mage if they don't have an Aug

If there's an Aug mage def would win on certain dungeons

[haughty wigeon]

that usually goes without saying

[frail veldt]

And sp even beat mage on stuff like EB

[haughty wigeon]

granted it was also the first season since augs release

[lone crow]

It was not

Aug was released s2

[haughty wigeon]

where there was viable group comps that didnt need aug

let me finish

[lone crow]

U both are still wrong

Even with Aug u beat mage

That season mage did z dps

[frail veldt]

On some dungeons yeah

[lone crow]

No everywhere

[frail veldt]

Maybe shit mages

[haughty wigeon]

finding a good mage was

and still is

[lone crow]

Nah ure right u had faker mages in ur 20s while i played with a shit mage who was R5 world

[haughty wigeon]

like finding a unicorn

[frail veldt]

I mean if they're doing Z DPS that's pretty shit

Also I got title that season so I'm not entirely trolling

Chill with the ego

[lone crow]

?? I'm trying to bring a point that I played with a very good mage, it's not about me

[frail veldt]

You called them z dps

[haughty wigeon]

i mean, all you need is time

[frail veldt]

That's just so comically inaccurate

[haughty wigeon]

especially in df

[lone crow]

Because it's true

[frail veldt]

This one's a gg lol

[lone crow]

Ure just wrong I think u confuse it with mage in s2

[frail veldt]

I didn't play s2

Not confusing anything

We just have different views of that season

[lone crow]

But S3/S4 mage did no dmg they played ignite

[frail veldt]

LOLOL

[lone crow]

I think ure just wrong

[frail veldt]

I know I'm not 😉

[lone crow]

And very clueless

[frail veldt]

It's okay

[haughty wigeon]

im looking at logs rn

i hate

how people dont log keys holy shit

anywho

god i wish people logged their keys so we can put this shit discussion to bed

highest mage key i can find is eb 31, outlaw is 30

[frail veldt]

You can just go back in the damage meter bragging channel

[haughty wigeon]

to much work than im willing to do at this point

[frail veldt]

Fair

[lone crow]

What does highest key to do with that

Ofc the 4x dps comp was better but that's another story

[frail veldt]

What

4 DPS was for first pull

On like a few dungeons

[lone crow]

No it was not xddddd

[frail veldt]

Rofl

[lone crow]

It's ok u don't know

[frail veldt]

Too good

[haughty wigeon]

i mean from the logs im seeing

im seeing mage and priest do a fair amoutn of more damage in overal

compared to outlaw

but aghain

no one logs their fucking keys for some reason

that neither side can make a solid arguement beyond "but i remember"

its also ya know

more mage priest and aug in allstars with you being the only outlaw for miles

while yes, outlaw was a viable contender

the casters still won out throguh various means

[novel socket]

Meme content

[haughty wigeon]

mostly cause vdh at the time

carries everything

[frail veldt]

Outlaw had a lot of problem areas like last boss of fall and tree boss in waycrest

[haughty wigeon]

and gives 5% magic damage to said caster

which also get bufgfed by aug

[frail veldt]

Literally had to swap sub for any chance

[haughty wigeon]

while also stopping everything

[lone crow]

Timed highest fall on Outlaw, ure wrong

[torpid fiber]

really shows just how much the main reason ppl log is parses lmao

[frail veldt]

I mean you're heavily relying on your other DPS during the shield break

[haughty wigeon]

while its silly to have this convo, its very clear that outlaw kinda loses overal to casters of the season cause damage profile and the usual shit

[haughty wigeon]

yes but no

[frail veldt]

Since the buff doesn't give outlaw any damage

[haughty wigeon]

logging keys and having a accurate account of data for general history

and for ya know

improvement

is extremely valuable

[torpid fiber]

yeah i think logging keys is good but also the fact that ppl don't shows you how many people only log to see their parses

bc m+ parses are well known memes

[haughty wigeon]

i forget that DF was peak season where people didnt log their keys at high end cause of various reasons

usually involving ego

it would break the illusion

atleast from a tank standpoint

a good example from a tank pov is reholy vs kyrasis. reholy dumpsters kyrasis any day and logs show this

which also leads to the usual statement

needing time to reach such a high level of content to begin with, how even if you play somewhat eh, you can still touch rank1 if you and 4 others had 0 grass touching capabilities

my tangent to change the topic is over

[novel socket]

Wow in a nutshell

[lone crow]

https://tenor.com/view/pepe-typing-pepe-angry-pepe-cry-pepe-crying-gif-2532592051986810143

[haughty wigeon]

https://imgur.com/mftGPmI

[young apex]

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-spec-rankings/season-df-3/world/rogue/outlaw

[dense wyvern]

hey where can i read aboout the vanish thing. how to keep up

[haughty wigeon]

to late there bud

i checked it out myself while looking at how mage and priest did more than outlaw in specific dungeons

[young apex]

but why would anyone lie about publicly visible data

[haughty wigeon]

youd be surprised

how many people do that in tank spaces

heck even well known streamers tend to lie alot, even tho it can be fact checked in real time

[frail veldt]

Brother have you been on the internet before?

[young apex]

i tend to avoid because of discussions like this

[final sluice]

Streamers are the cancer of wow

same like influencers in general

[timid quail]

!log

[wintry solar]

Outlaw needs aura

[stable kindle]

should i ambush on 4 cp while in subterfuge?

or spender

[tight kernel]

For KS, while in prog. Is it better to send KS at low CP before a mechanic or hold it till after?

[jovial dock]

would anyone doing high keys on outlaw mind helping me with gearing ? i feel like i have to much mastery, but i dont know what to do to fix it... everytime i try and sim replacement items for the mastery it sims lower? im prob doing something wrong but i wanna make sure

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/c7myeGcDaNYv9ScFc3oisx

[cinder haven]

Ambush

[cinder haven]

Low cp probably, or you’ll lose cdr. Depends on how long you would delay

If you only delay one finisher it might be ok

[tacit fractal]

!ui

[ornate heath]

Outlaw Guides:
Wowhead: https://www.wowhead.com/outlaw-rogue-guide
IV: https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/outlaw-rogue-pve-dps-guide
Method: https://www.method.gg/guides/outlaw-rogue

[tacit fractal]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[tacit fractal]

is there a point in tracking fazed ?

[vivid vessel]

you dont want to press coup on a target that isnt fazed

but that only happens when you target swap

its very annoying when that happens tho

you kinda track it in your head instead

as long as you dont target swap before coup basically

you are alright

cause proccing ub apply it

and ks aplpy it

[cinder haven]

Bit annoying when your target dies, you are at 7cp already with coup available and no free ub

[vivid vessel]

yep

idk why fazed is a requirement for coup

so annoying

[tacit fractal]

fuh. whats ub

[cinder haven]

I just send the coup without fazed in that situation

[vivid vessel]

unseen blades

[vivid vessel]

ye i dont think you should honestrly

[cinder haven]

Idk if it’s correct though

[vivid vessel]

most times you can get away with doing something else

[cinder haven]

Should probably at least try one ss

[tacit fractal]

so in this case, if we target swapped, even at max cp, i would apply ub first and then coup ?

[cinder haven]

Probably yes, if you can

If the ub weakaura says you have an ub waiting for sure you should ss first

[tacit fractal]

yea still learning all the icons in wa. tryna pick up rogue again on the side

[silk stirrup]

Hey guys, I like outlaw but I feel I do no damage. I usually hit around 3.5-4m overall but have dks and hunters doing like 5m+. Is that normal?

[crude flower]

Yes

Because they have insane procs

I assume you mean Unholy DK and Marksman hunter

If so that's why

[cold falcon]

i would be interested, too. I read guides, looked at my dmg profile etc but cant find the problem.. my rogue is simming at 1,6m both assa and outlaw. With assa i just do what i feel is right and do 1,4m without buffs.. with outlaw i am sweating to get 900k.. idk what to do now. It cant be stat distribution if it sims lile that right? even if my stat distribution is horrable

[daring oxide]

You lose too much FF imo

[silk stirrup]

It's not even like I feel I have some insane utility that makes up for the damage gap, I guess the ST is better than most specs on the positive side

But AoE is non existent next to some classes

[crude flower]

I mean

You are looking at the 2 (to my knowledge?) highest potential dps output specs atm

In aoe

M+ i mean

[silk stirrup]

Yes but they are on like 90% of the keys I play 🤣

So it's 2 specs but it feels like more

Don't know how to remain competitive

[crude flower]

Tbf i'm trying to do stuff as BM rn so it sucks for me even more

[silk stirrup]

Ouch

I hate this whole meta gameplay

[crude flower]

Yea

I hate when the best specs are just
"Oh you have a chance to do the nuts"

Cause its just

God damn it was gonna send the slot machien emote

https://tenor.com/view/xqc-777-gif-8020913471856136218

Just this

[cold falcon]

i guess ppl are not able to see, how close the meta is

[crude flower]

Yep

Like it's the same w rogue
Imo all 3 specs can compete at top level but people sometimes see like
assa or smth higher and assume that the other 2 specs are dog water

[novel socket]

Its streamers

[vivid vessel]

all 3 specs can compete at top level

[novel socket]

They make those shit tierlists and people follow them like a gospel

For a +10

[crude flower]

Exactly sac

*zac

[cold falcon]

i mean, what would you chose: a guy, that alway play different classes, because they are meta, or a guy that plays bm for years because he loves it.. and also, who will perform better? (the answer is, you cant know!)

[vivid vessel]

even wox is playing assa now

thats actually so funny

[crude flower]

"Nono you don't understand we need to skip these 2 hobgoblins on a +5"

[novel socket]

The meta

[crude flower]

Tbh from what i've seen

[novel socket]

Blizz cant balance shit

[tropic zephyr]

I mean, it was bound to happen no?

[novel socket]

Meta is always broken

[crude flower]

Sub has done some high runs just cause banshers decides to play it instead of MM sometimes or smth

[vivid vessel]

ye cause outlaw is trash

sub is good tho

[tropic zephyr]

Like casual playing law in S3 until sin became op op

[crude flower]

Is this what happens in a channel when said spec hasn't been at the top of tierlists for a while and they never get invs

[novel socket]

The whole "fotm are bad because they fotm" is reddit cope

[vivid vessel]

sub and sin are good

just sub doesnt work in some keys

but it has keys its better than assa

outlaw tho ?

ye

[tropic zephyr]

Sub looks like a pain

Sin so ez

[cold falcon]

i think thats not true.. when we compare the top level, we have seen like 50% of the specs and i think all classes in TGP

[crude flower]

Tbh if bliz just brought back acro for all 3 rogue specs i'd actually go back to them

I say that as if i stopped playing rogue years ago

as if it isn't just this season

[vivid vessel]

outalw legit been unplayable in m+ since acro been removed btw

no one has realized it yet

[novel socket]

Only paladins are allowed to have range as melees

[vivid vessel]

outlaw legit became unplayable when they removed acro

no one can play the spec that isnt a one trick

people will come in here

wtf guys

i do 0 damage

i dont understand

ye no shit

[crude flower]

https://tenor.com/view/astolfo-gif-16125526452998724352

[cold falcon]

i think, more stupid then that is, make vanish a dmg cd whil introducing the new solo player content. There you see, that the devs are disconnected

[vivid vessel]

ok well

[tropic zephyr]

Tbf I'm kind of a one trick and doing 0 damage with kir 1 fth rn

[vivid vessel]

i dont care about solo content

[crude flower]

Idk why this is the image i replied with i just thought one of those text bubble ones would be funny

[tropic zephyr]

[vivid vessel]

nice try tho

[crude flower]

Tbh

It;s funny people say no to me being in keys when i queue as BM
Last 6 or so keys i've been top dps

But still
Not MM so means i must be dogwater

Prolly the same for people who play outlaw and acc do decent atm

[tropic zephyr]

I actually get depressed every time I'm doing a dungeon rn

[novel socket]

Yes

Streamers said si

Must be true

[tropic zephyr]

I think I'll go back to HO

[crude flower]

Hasn't sin been the best for like

A few seasons now

Since the rework

[novel socket]

Fuck unholy and mage btw

[vivid vessel]

idk i can get gapped by giga randoms even in 16s

[novel socket]

I hope every unholy has tanks that move pakcs away drom defile

[vivid vessel]

and in higher keys there is no hope

[novel socket]

[crude flower]

I can't

Which im pissed about

because a ret / UH / fire / whatever as geared as me should be gaping me

Not gapping

Gaping

[vivid vessel]

should try outlaw then

sure if i do a comp

with warrior

ww

i will gap them

give me every raid buffs

and let me compete against specs that do 0 damage

ye im gapping

tyty

[novel socket]

Ye you need the phys godcomp to work

[crude flower]

Bro ok

[vivid vessel]

"to work"

[crude flower]

Being target locked at 8 isn't the same as 5

5 is much worse

[novel socket]

At high level

[vivid vessel]

its not about target cap buddy

[crude flower]

Oh wait

[novel socket]

While mages just eat crayons

[crude flower]

You meant for buffs

Sorry i see ww and warrior

[novel socket]

[crude flower]

I assume target cap haha

[vivid vessel]

no

i just meant if you give me all raid buffs

and i play against bad specs

i will win

[crude flower]

Will you?

Jkjk zac

[vivid vessel]

ye

but i do an higher key

like 17

aginast real specs

im already getting gapped

and i know it doesnt get better

[novel socket]

Unless is top

[vivid vessel]

because its exaclty the same shit as in s1

[novel socket]

[crude flower]

Could be worse

Could be fury

[vivid vessel]

eh

[novel socket]

Do you have a team zac

[vivid vessel]

no

[novel socket]

Or you push solo

With pugs

[crude flower]

ewwww

Find a team

[vivid vessel]

no one would want to play with an outlaw

onyl wox got a team

yeye find a team

easy to say when everyone plays fotm

[fluid meadow]

nice timer diff with +1 keylvl tbh

[novel socket]

Not true

[crude flower]

.

[novel socket]

Even warriors find teams

[crude flower]

(Yea ik what you mean

[vivid vessel]

ye there is one team in the world

[crude flower]

im just taking the piss

[vivid vessel]

that has been playing

forever

together

good example

[crude flower]

I know lmao

That's why i sent it

Because it's a secluded example

[vivid vessel]

also

he plays assa rn

just saying

[crude flower]

And it's true

Yeye ik ik

I wasn't doing it as a thing to prove you wrong

moreso a nerd emoji

"uhm acktually"

moemnt

[vivid vessel]

the guy that has a team that allows him to play outlaw

[novel socket]

Traitor

[vivid vessel]

a physical comp

[novel socket]

Plays sin

[vivid vessel]

the guy that one trick outlaw

forever

never played sin in his life

now play sin

i see i see

and you are trying to convince me

outlaw does damage

thats so funny actually

[crude flower]

Hush

Maybe the real damage were the friends you made along the way

[vivid vessel]

outlaw players will gaslight themslves to think the spec is good cause it does well in 10s tho so its alrgiht

[tropic zephyr]

"you're blasting every pack spec so broken fr no cap"

[crude flower]

I mean you guys had your time to shine in bfa

Jk

[vivid vessel]

you remember in df

when the argument was

outlaw cant be buffed cause it does st while aoing

so op

look at us now

every spec in the game does that

better than outlaw

hell look at sin

sin will litteraly obliterate the target so hard that even in 20s your target doesnt survive

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

fuck

almost got the answer

gg

[tropic zephyr]

Yeah, also even in S3 fmage was taken specifically for that role

Still is the case

[crude flower]

Ohhi zeross

Saw you on top 4 runs and just thought
"Wait that's that jerry guy" XD

[proven ocean]

hi lifeguard

are u here to save me

[crude flower]

Do you need to be saved?

If so perhaps

[vivid vessel]

[proven ocean]

yes pls

[vivid vessel]

"cant soft cap outlaw it would be too op cuase it does st while aoing guys "

fr fr

its ok for sin to funnel while doing uncapped aoe tho

[crude flower]

Also
With the black trenchcoat
What pants are you running>?

I'm trying to get the deaths advance ones atm

[vivid vessel]

black pants

[crude flower]

Because i think they fit well with it

[prisma sapphire]

outlaw has to get carried in meadery

need uncap

[vivid vessel]

im black panting

all black

cuh cuh

[tropic zephyr]

[crude flower]

Yea those are the pants im going for

What are the boots?

[crude flower]

Ah arlgith

cheers

[prisma sapphire]

they should just give us back the coup bug

[vivid vessel]

am i wrong tho

[crude flower]

Imma have to wait
checks day
oh only a few hours for noblegarden

Ok peak

[vivid vessel]

this has been the argument against outlaw softcap

for an eternity

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

[vivid vessel]

weird how its not anymore

[tropic zephyr]

Realz doing his daily mental gymnastic to justify hard cap

[proven ocean]

my guy

is r1

[vivid vessel]

cause people realized that was a dumb argument

[proven ocean]

guardian

best guardian dpser

in the game

[crude flower]

He is the bane of gnomes

I mean bears eat gnomes

So it doesn't surprise me

[vivid vessel]

well thats r12

but ok

[crude flower]

Sadly floodgate isn't fileld with gnomes

Instead goblins

I'm sure he will eat em the same

[proven ocean]

r12 cuz he only has 3 guardian kills

on mythic

4*

[vivid vessel]

well its the best average perf

[heavy shadow]

So what are we meant to be running in raid now, ST. I'm getting grief as I'm not topping palas

[vivid vessel]

not current avg perf

so he could have lost all his r1s by now

ok good for him i guess

tank parses

[crude flower]

Tbh guardians have two brain settings
on or off
and most are off
when they are on they seem like really agitated tbh

[vivid vessel]

wonder what the justification would be now

cause it for sure aint that outlaw destroy eveyrone under target cap

i dont think it even win against assa on any target count above 2

with pc might win up to 3 who knows

banger spec

just have to lose 10% st for that tho

[prisma sapphire]

3% buff on apr 22 please

[crude flower]

Tbh if they uncap all classes would mean fury wars would stop crying for once

Or i mean they still would

But like a bit less

[slate plaza]

they need to uncap bte in subterfuge

that would be banger

[dark steeple]

outlaw needs to be #1 at all times

!!!

[slate plaza]

exactly

someone understands common sense

[honest sparrow]

you can also buy the Black Tuxedo Pants out of ah if you dont want to farm the rep for the others they are a bit expensive tho

[crude flower]

Fair but im like

a few days until i get max rep

[vivid vessel]

I mean why is fury capped

[crude flower]

Cause i checked and was at like

[slate plaza]

cause of last raid

[crude flower]

half revered

Yea haha

[vivid vessel]

Fury was only relevant in m+ when it was uncapped In df

[crude flower]

They were good for one raid tier now into the bin

[dark steeple]

did they cap the fury roar thingy now

wasnt that like insanely bursty

[vivid vessel]

And they werent really good but at least they would blast at the things they were good at

[crude flower]

I'd have to check

Yea

[proven ocean]

the warr we played with sucked anyways

at dpsing

[crude flower]

Like idk how reliable mythic stats is

But this is it this week

[proven ocean]

sub rogue D tier

XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

i bet most sub rogues suck balls

thats why they put it there

[crude flower]

I was gonna say

Porlly people just not knowing how it works

[tropic zephyr]

Tbf I think it's above his pay grade, I think he did post about it but idk if he has any firm belief about it

[crude flower]

As i said idk how relibale it is

[tropic zephyr]

Cause

[proven ocean]

people think

send cds

and gg

[tropic zephyr]

Imagine fury

[crude flower]

The website that is but it does say it's going off log data

[proven ocean]

cuz

no dust

has to be fre

[tropic zephyr]

[proven ocean]

free

right?

no dust, surely rotation is simple

right?

[crude flower]

Surely

I mean i play BM i can' t talk about complex rotations

I mean tbf
MM is easier rota wise but the fact that you gotta stand still for aimed (or balrey stand still) makes it prolly slighty harder
Both are easy either way

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel im 673, kinda spent my crests now

xd

[vivid vessel]

huge

im holding a bit rn

dont think spending on a ring is a good idea

and the feets are slowly going donw in price

imma buy at 1 mil i think

they are 1.2 rn

[proven ocean]

ye

feet u can wait for next patch

ppl will play alot next week

expect pugs to farm boe's alot that week

@vivid vessel im waiting for neck with avoidance

so i can reach 10%

[vivid vessel]

[jovial dock]

if AR is not up, do we ever go into our crackshot window? are we using vanish on cd or ONLY with AR ?

[vivid vessel]

wtih adr

[jovial dock]

so just cycle builder/spender till AR is back up then go for the window >

?*

[wintry solar]

Yerrrr

[jovial dock]

thanks boys

[cinder relic]

sub rogue players aer also victims

[vivid vessel]

sub players just dont m+

sub was litteraly better than outlaw in s1 and no one played it sitll

well i guess sub players just reroll to sin

[final sluice]

this. They cant play skilled specs so they switch from sucking at sub to meming at assa.

[hasty warren]

Yo pirates

@vivid vessel Zac I've a question about ur UI, what addon do u use to track party AOE CC ? omni cd ? I can't find how to only show the spell icon

[final sluice]

without having seen his stream - I guess its like naowh ui?

[final sluice]

ah he has all cc stacked in one place not attached to player - and what dosnt work for you then?

[hasty warren]

i have a list with players names aside

[final sluice]

probably for interupts?

[hasty warren]

i have for aoe cc too

but it look like zac

[final sluice]

nah what I'm asking his - how it looks for you?

[hasty warren]

a list with spell icon at left and player name at right and a bar that show remaining cd

[cold tide]

Coming back to outlaw after while. As i see ho performs slightly better now than kir in m+ scenario is that still valid?

[slate plaza]

no

kir is better at 8 targets

ho is better in st

its preference

play what u want

most play ho because its way less punishing

[cold tide]

👍

[pliant wind]

if u die when you just used kir, u're gonna cry

haha

[desert tendon]

they dont know about first dance

for sure

they underestimate how good that is

[winged inlet]

Ci is 2nd outlaw and is playing fatebound, is it a raid build or m+? Was thinking to try out cuz i hate killing spree

[slate plaza]

is it still wroth meld skippinghopbolgins after nerf

(high keys)

[slate plaza]

fatebound is usually st build

trickster too good in aoe

[proven ocean]

dont think thats it

alot of things u need to know for sub to do dmg

[desert tendon]

brothers doesnt track ub

brothers send cds at 1ub

[dawn talon]

tfd in rp heavy dungeons

is so insane

[desert tendon]

brothers dont dry sectechs

most subs i ve seen in keys play like in raid, same cd management

which is so wrong at so many points

no wonder many of them deals negative damage outside of blades

[dawn talon]

dry sectech matters alot more now bc you just want more high ff finishers right ?

[final sluice]

ur"re generally cry when u die as outlaw - its probably the most punishing shit that can happen ever

[pliant wind]

true

[winged inlet]

what guide would u recooment for sub ?

[slate plaza]

wowhead

this is outlaw channel

#subtlety

[desert tendon]

wowhead, when u know it by heart you just open warcraft log and check highest sub keys and what they do

[final sluice]

just check the rogue discord - its wowhead in good

wowhead memelords say outlaw in keys is C-Tier - mentally Ill imo

[desert tendon]

dont watch any tier list tbh

i genuilly think this season balance is great, just community is traumatised with aug and ease to reroll, so they want a 1 comp

[final sluice]

Outlaw is not S-Tier dont get me wrong but the overall damage is very good, the ST in m+ build is better than basicly every other class, its probably the tankyest dps ever and has decent utility.

[desert tendon]

To me in m+ outlaw is fine if you play a comp that makes sens and route that also makes sens for it. Just KS is shit

[final sluice]

I even enjoy ks at that point

[desert tendon]

i just remember unfortunate face when she sees her damage

what a clip

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWWHeB-WPiM&t=240s

[final sluice]

I mean I just screened the last key I did

kek

[slate plaza]

what lvl?

[pliant wind]

u can only do that kind of dps when u have eles uh and others without hands in your group at high keys

: -D

[dawn talon]

outlaw just does a lot of actually meaningless damage

like i could go 5.5m overall in 12 priory sure but when ur doing a real key u just lose on relevant pulls

[vivid vessel]

outlaw will litteraly bottom dps on overall in a real key with real specs

all the while

doing tank damage

[slate plaza]

^^^

[pliant wind]

^

[vivid vessel]

on the most important pulls

of the dungeon

all the while

[slate plaza]

i just did a 14 cinderbrew

first two pulls

[vivid vessel]

having to kill yourself

[slate plaza]

i was competing with tank

[vivid vessel]

with ks

[slate plaza]

shoulda played sin

[pliant wind]

in a +14 important pulls, my group UH 14M ele 12.5M me 6-7M

KEKW

np we support at 3 mob pulls :>

[slate plaza]

outlaw wont get a dmg profile/aoe rework for like 2 more expacs

watch

[final sluice]

only 10

with wipes though cause undergeared pug tank

[pliant wind]

perfect

[digital linden]

Where is that quote from

[livid pewter]

where is the log 😮

[crude anchor]

my prot paladin on the first pull of cinder does like 11-12m

hard to beat out tank on sub even in low keys

cant imagine outlaw has it any better

[final sluice]

quote is from the wowhead tierlist at outlaw rogue (so U need scroll all the way down to C-Tier xD)

[tropic zephyr]

Peak /w begging

[final sluice]

checking if I can upload later

[tropic zephyr]

yea i rotate my cooldowns well lol. I know how to gauge damage and cooldowns, press my interrupts appropriately. That’s the bare minimum lol. I track my healers cooldowns always to make sure and i never used a defensive last second unless me and my healer had a miscommunication or i randomly got dropped to 10% by a large hit because of a low ilvl

[livid pewter]

https://tenor.com/view/this-feels-like-a-trap-june-diane-raphael-brianna-hanson-grace-and-frankie-is-this-a-trap-gif-16260987

[winged inlet]

some high outlaws use keep it rolling talent ofer hidden opportunity , whats the catch

[final sluice]

its both ok

[tropic zephyr]

KiR 1fth allows you to play PC + GS + CtO, whereas with HO you need to choose two out of three of those talents

[final sluice]

has advantage and disadvantage either way

[tropic zephyr]

KiR 1 fth has more punishing rules, and is harder to play

[final sluice]

wdym

[winged inlet]

i was told keep it rolling needs more alot more haste and awernes , where HO is easier to play

[tropic zephyr]

HO supercharger needs a lot of haste too

We don't play vigor anymore

[final sluice]

HO is kind of easyer to play yes

its more relaiable in general

[winged inlet]

[Deft Maneuvers] it says 100% BF dmg why dont we take that if our primary dmg comes from BF

[final sluice]

cause it dosnt increase bf damage

bf itself does damage

thats whats increased

bf has 2 damage parts - an inital hit AND the cleave

[tropic zephyr]

It's also bugged if you look at the pins

[final sluice]

the talent increases the intital hit by 100%

[digital linden]

Why harder i have played both 1 fth just seems more clunky

[keen belfry]

Just saw sinners last night

If u guys even care

Or is that not outlaw enough

[pliant wind]

i tried this season at +13 assa spec and must say that in aoe is the dmg i wish for outlaw

but in ST is soooooooo boring

i can play it with 1 hand

zzz

[tropic zephyr]

Fucking up costs you a lot more DPS than HO fucks up

[bright crane]

How long does stupid MDI last for

[desert tendon]

4 weeks i think this season

they added a group

[cinder haven]

Hoping for m+ tubing after or what?

[bright crane]

Yeah cause we sure as shit not getting some during it

[timber knoll]

Yeah once the season is almost over we can expect more tuning

The whole “we won’t tune during these events” is dumb as hell honestly idgaf about those nerds

[bright crane]

I agree

[cinder haven]

The have a tournament realm for this anyway

[vivid vessel]

legit do not understand why tournament realm isnt a separate old patch

we get fucked everytime cause of mdi then tgp then whatever other bullshit

[cinder haven]

They could just freeze tuning on that realm yeah

No idea why they don’t

[timber knoll]

Also very few people even care about that shit man like why are we holding millions of people hostage for these events lol

[merry harness]

I think they want to make sure that the viewer feels it is still the same game aka. that the keys done could be done on live

[vivid vessel]

and they just gave them 20% avoidance

[bright crane]

These are key levels done by <.1% of players

[vivid vessel]

678 gear

so

thats not even relevant

[merry harness]

Yeah i know

[bright crane]

And they know that

[vivid vessel]

these keys are not doable on live

[merry harness]

I found that very strange aswell

Now it is very hard to say wether or not the keys done are that much higher than those done on live (considering 20% dr)

[bright crane]

The same boring comps doing doing the same keys

Complete yawn fest

[merry harness]

da fak u mean they litteraly just made it so that they can't have the same comps

[merry harness]

I think that this might have a big effect on how people will view the skill level of players

Last season it could not really be argued that mandatory didn't play really really well

Now when someone times a really high key there will be doubt about how much of that was just 20% avoidance

[bright crane]

That’s only during the group stage

Time trials and finals don’t have that rule

[merry harness]

Ohh well we will still see much higher variance

[proven ocean]

first +19 key i see in lfg

my guy is saying fast crest

and has green io

[deep cedar]

missclicked 9 instead of 0 xD

[proven ocean]

@vivid vessel

idk what an mm hunter's gonna do

vs a 673 rogue

my guy is 3.2k

xdddddddddddddddddd

[vivid vessel]

cool commp tho

[winged inlet]

i was in my assa gear /mastery , and i switched to outlaw and simed 3.826 , i went on my versa outlaw gear and simming 3.792? um what why

[gaunt phoenix]

No one knows without looking at your sims

[frail veldt]

Link sim

[desert tendon]

LMFAO AHAHAHAHHA

[frail veldt]

Good chance your assa gear is simply higher ilvl

[desert tendon]

and it s workshop also, with a sham, just go sub and delete them bosses

[proven ocean]

sub is prob stronger than udk

in that comp

by alot

i do same as udk dps 1st pull without all these raid buffs

lol

[winged inlet]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/1FVLTZoW5vBaTfeDV36vBu

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/gnx84dS1T4QxmZAGviMreM

[pearl girder]

do you guys usually sim with raid buffs or without ?

[tropic zephyr]

In M+ you sim with the team you have, and if you pug you just put bl in there

[gaunt phoenix]

check the gems in your circlet ring. you have thunderlord equipped in the 2nd sim, but stormbringer in the first.

you want stormbringer, especially bc you have like 5% haste

[quaint sable]

My guy still thinks marksmen has the vanilla trueshot buff +200 AP.

[pearl girder]

dslice mostly for m+ or should i sim patchwerk aswell @tropic zephyr

[gaunt phoenix]

it shouldnt matter really. maybe skyfury influences the value of haste a little bit

but yea dungeonslice should probably be lust + whatever buffs you expect to run with

[pearl girder]

kk ty

[round dragon]

Are we getting the Puzzling Cartel Chips next Tuesday? I keep seeing mixed info on that all over the place

[cinder haven]

No one knows

[vivid vessel]

even blizz doesnt

[round dragon]

Closest thing I got is some guy saying someone said in an interview it's on 11.1.5 but patch notes say nothing lol

[cinder haven]

One theory was after HoF

[frail veldt]

sub over assa for first pull you think?

[red zinc]

It wont be on tuesday

There will be info shortly after the patch

So probably a thursday / friday post about timings

[proven ocean]

sin wont do sub/udk dps on 1st pull

+u cant send deathmark on 1st pull

cuz its troll to do so

[red zinc]

no way sub does udk with blood beast damage

[proven ocean]

udk has to proc 2 beasts

to beat sub rogue

or whatever extra rng they need with 1 beast to reach 30m dps

because sub does 30m 1st pull

sin wont do half that

[red zinc]

I think you do 30mil with 1 beast with 670+

i do like 27m with 676

[proven ocean]

and sub does 30m

without rng

of beast procs

xd

[proven ocean]

and how do u have 676

[vivid vessel]

ok but

[proven ocean]

do u mean tournament realm or what

[red zinc]

666

[vivid vessel]

outlaw does 6 mil

so

[red zinc]

typo cuh

[vivid vessel]

get owned bozo

[proven ocean]

sub is rly good in workshop

insanely op

[red zinc]

people suck at sub though

not u but

Average sub rogue is dookie

[frail veldt]

subs so easy now though what

how do people suck at it

[desert tendon]

people play sub in m+ like in raid

which is just not good

[frail veldt]

how so

[raven socket]

I never playd sub,but everytime i try it,it never goes well :'c

[frail veldt]

I didnt know it was different at all

maybe im playing it wrong but theres like no differences other than using black powder on big packs lol

[desert tendon]

no dried sectech

no tfd usage

using cds at wrong timing

not tracking ub stacks efficiently

All the things that adds up

[frail veldt]

I mean youre supposed to do all that in raid though too

maybe they just focus on raid timers more than anything else

[frail veldt]

whats tfd

[desert tendon]

the first dance

which is actually raelly big

[frail veldt]

oh interesting I didnt play that when I played sub last season

what do they drop for it?

[desert tendon]

staying in stealth out of a pack 4 more seconds before engaging it makes a big diff from my experience

uh

[frail veldt]

weaponmaster?

I feel like that wouldnt proc that often

6 seconds seems like a long time

prob good for bosses id imagine though

[desert tendon]

no weaponmaster yea

cuz weaponmaster doesnt proc on nimble

[frail veldt]

LOL what?

like if you have nimble up

[desert tendon]

i ve seen eleem or whoever saying that weaponmaster is better unless you get 2 first dance

[frail veldt]

weaponmaster just doesnt do anything?

[desert tendon]

yea the additionnal strike doesnt flurry

[frail veldt]

ofc

blizz amazes me every day

something new

[desert tendon]

i think there is something along this line

[frail veldt]

ive been wanting to play sub but I need to get house of cards haha

[desert tendon]

"weapon master is better unless you press storm once every 10 mn

and guess what

[frail veldt]

I have priory at least but I dont have enough mastery gear to have mastery as my highest stat

[desert tendon]

u press storm way more than once every 10mn in m+

[desert tendon]

something that made me laugh a lot also

gb doesnt apply fw if you re not behind

[frail veldt]

lul

awful

[desert tendon]

to be fair not that bad, if u compare to "nightstalker gives you 0% damage"

[frail veldt]

its all bad

[proven ocean]

blizzard should make haste increase dodge chance for rogues

[frail veldt]

lol

[proven ocean]

like how useless is this

0.3% of ur hp every second

lmao

[frail veldt]

huge

[proven ocean]

if i get a lvl 50 healer he'd heal me more than that shit

[celest cobalt]

kir m+ still viable or nah?

[magic shuttle]

Ye

[lapis forge]

new rogue, was wondering why wowhead guide says that Slice n Dice is higher prio than Dispatch, even with Dispatch giving SnD at a reduced duration per combo point?

[arctic hollow]

Missed when updated

We never press SnD anymore

[red zinc]

wtf does “up to” even mean

missing health scaling?

[lapis forge]

thanks

[long barn]

How big is WF buff for HO

[desert tendon]

best part is that

it s bugged

and doesnt work half of the time

[long barn]

Guys why does Trickster KIR sims have me taking 10% haste?

Seems low no?

[exotic agate]

!wa

[ornate heath]

Class packs:

• Guy's - Afenar's Edit Luxthos Edit
• Zac's Group Devlin
  Utilities:
• Combo Point Standalone
• Last GCD in Crackshot window / Subterfuge timer
• Ace refund sound trigger
• RtB buffs tracker (shows normal, CTO, and KIR'd buffs)
• Unseen Blade tracker
  Fun:
• Ace max combo counter and Ace current combo counter
• KS Ticking damage taken

[desert tendon]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/316923682607857685/1362628424857944074/image.png?ex=680661dc&is=6805105c&hm=6d3d5f2106ce4f7d239ccc7b43be90a667fe1e9958754ea203e27e42f0499c99& @proven ocean look at that from last week

[gaunt phoenix]

link

[desert tendon]

no way recup does legit half leech healing in a key shit must sitll be bugged to the bones

[craggy barn]

its prob a no ghostly talent setup causing ur haste value to lower in sims

[proven ocean]

for sin its worse

overall in floodgate 17

[gaunt phoenix]

naw KIR not taking haste means you fucked it