orchid bramble Jan 18, 2018, 4:03 PM

#

Thats the best way I know to get it anyway

proven sparrow Jan 18, 2018, 4:05 PM

#

You dont need bonus ids

#

You need the id for the item

balmy dawn Jan 18, 2018, 4:05 PM

#

True! I'm using this way, but the url just give me 2 numbers, I don't know what the 3rd one means

proven sparrow Jan 18, 2018, 4:06 PM

#

and then you can either write ilevel=960 and/or gem=200mastery / enchant=200mastery

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:06 PM

#

3rd is socket etc I think

proven sparrow Jan 18, 2018, 4:06 PM

#

with , inbetween the different things

balmy dawn Jan 18, 2018, 4:07 PM

#

probably, I'm not sure. most of the items in my bags have a 3336 or a 3528 code

#

Oh @proven sparrow, can I do that in Top Gear? would be easier to try the same items with different enchants at the same Sim

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:07 PM

#

Tbh, so long as you copy the bonus ID from Wowhead, it doesn't matter how many numbers there are

#

It'll work

proven sparrow Jan 18, 2018, 4:07 PM

#

Just ditch bonus ids

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:08 PM

#

And you can do that, but tooltips get screwy

#

Sometimes

balmy dawn Jan 18, 2018, 4:08 PM

#

oh, got it

#

so it doesn't really matters the 3nd code, the results won't be wrong by excluding that? Sounds good enough

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

Correct

orchid bramble Jan 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

I had some issues uing the ilvl method with top gear, but maybe I did something wrong or it got fixed by now

balmy dawn Jan 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

nice, thank you guys!

orchid bramble Jan 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

I think it was displaying wrong but simming correctly

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:09 PM

#

@orchid bramble tooltips? Because that still happens

orchid bramble Jan 18, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

Yeah

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

It's more effort than it's worth to generate tooltips like that, so raidbots pulls them from wowdb by bonus id

balmy dawn Jan 18, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

I'm getting to deep into all these Simulation stuff. I should slow down, but it's not that easy when you are an Engineer with free time at work lol

gaunt gale Jan 18, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

So if you don't give a bonus id, it won't get the tooltip right

orchid bramble Jan 18, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

makes sence

maiden cargo Jan 19, 2018, 5:12 AM

#

some can help me how i can uload my logs for all?

#

i export its many times... but just i can see this logs....

📎 Screenshot_20180119-061112.png

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 1:20 AM

#

I've heard people saying this item:
http://www.wowhead.com/item=137367/stormsinger-fulmination-charge&bonus=1826:1497
Proccs as assa, is there an overwrite to be able to sim it?

Wowhead

Stormsinger Fulmination Charge

This blue trinket of item level 845 goes in the "Trinket" slot. It is looted and sold by NPCs. In the Trinkets category. Added in World of Warcraft: Legion.

#

Not expecting it to be overly broken, just curious

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:25 AM

#

Seems like it works fine in SimC

#

📎 unknown.png

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 1:31 AM

#

Ok maybe i was just retarded when looking through it earlier. Is wowhead incorrect when it says it should have 0.7 rppm?

timid rampart Jan 20, 2018, 1:31 AM

#

8% uptime on the buff

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 1:31 AM

#

0.7 rppm wouldnt lead to a procc every 117 seconds or no?

#

That seems more like 0.5 rppm

#

Your pic had it at 106 though, why is my 100k itterations giving 117 average?

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:34 AM

#

It depends on what it procs from

#

It's flagged as: White Ranged, Yellow Ranged, AOE Hostile Spell, Hostile Spell

#

So it's possible in the normal rotation in only has a chance to proc from like Vendetta or something

#

Which may be infrequent enough to bias the RPPM triggers

#

I assume that's it, because if I change to FoK rotation the uptime is 22.64%

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 1:38 AM

#

Cant seem to find a pattern on what it proccs on, i dont actually have the trinket to test ingame either

#

Seems like its not very good even with higher uptime with FoK rotation though. Ty for helping out 😃

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:43 AM

#

With that uptime it seems underbudgeted

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 1:43 AM

#

if it's not in the spec's loot table it's likely it has a nerf label associated

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:43 AM

#

I didn't see one

#

But it's possible

#

Just doesn't seem very good in generall.. like proc is going to average a 6 stack over the duration so for a 930 ilevel that's 945.50 * 6 = 5673 over the buff. With 22% uptime, that averages 1248.06.

#

Stat stick at 930 has 1320 secondary stats

#

shrug

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 1:46 AM

#

yeah, and requires fok rotation just to get to that uptime

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:46 AM

#

Yeah, I mean I assume if you used FoK "every so often" it would be fine within RPPM

#

Unless it procs from more secondary things that Vendetta

#

Like crucible procs or something. Who knows

#

But either way, doesn't seem amazing

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 1:47 AM

#

trinket is better with chaotic darkness, heh

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 1:47 AM

#

But as koji said, even assuming it does procc regularly with the standard ST rotation, it seems lackluster

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 1:47 AM

#

Most of the proc trinkets are really just underbudget compared to stat sticks lol

split sorrel Jan 20, 2018, 2:05 AM

#

Bring back Soul Capacitor

#

🤗

proven sparrow Jan 20, 2018, 2:06 AM

#

😍 😍

knotty oriole Jan 20, 2018, 2:18 AM

#

@split sorrel Part of me cringes and another part of me gets excited lol

#

Even though I played Feral in WoD, we got a lot of good use of out Soul Cap as well... but sometimes it made me want to delete it. 😄

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 1:40 PM

#

what does pmultiplier stand for in the apl?

#

is that <1 if a dot is in pandemic range?

split sorrel Jan 20, 2018, 1:41 PM

#

player multiplier

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 1:43 PM

#

what exactly does that do then? example line

#

actions.maintain+=/rupture,if=combo_points>=4&refreshable&(pmultiplier<=1|remains<=tick_time)

#

the or condition remains<=tick_time is also a bit confusing to me. im assuming thats just there to force a refresh before rupture drops off but that means pmultiplier should have a similar effect which i dont really get. no clue

#

@split sorrel if you could maybe explain whenever you have time, just tag me

split sorrel Jan 20, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

anything that modify the dmg

#

like NS

#

is a pmultiplier

#

so a ns rupture will have 1.5

#

instead of 1 (the default)

#

since it's +50%

#

same for garrote with subter (or ns), ...

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 2:01 PM

#

whats the point of the < then? are there actually negative modifiers?

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 2:32 PM

#

correct me if i'm wrong but isn't it "persistent multiplier" instead of "player multiplier", i.e. those that are snapshot?

#

and @pure condor it's <= 1, so that means the condition validates true when rupture has not snapshot any modifier

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 2:34 PM

#

so with no modifier at all it 0 instead of 1 ?

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 2:34 PM

#

no additional mod means 1

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

so its never gonna be below 1 ?

#

atleast im not aware of abilities that decrease ones damage

#

unless there are some boss models with debuffs if those exist in simc

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 2:36 PM

#

in a typical practical sim it shouldn't be below 1, right

pure condor Jan 20, 2018, 2:37 PM

#

is there a list of what gets modified by what?

#

example...vend and ns/subt obv snapshot gar

#

what about wrist legendary

#

and so on

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 2:38 PM

#

if sth is on a whitelist it is, for example, usually listed in the "modified by" tab on the wowhead spell site

#

but that does not display general modifiers like "X of the uncrowned" that modify all damage or a specific school, for instance

#

actually, we're currently starting an initiative to add more detailed descriptions from a TC perspective on spells on wowhead that are not perfectly clear

#

e.g. see RtB https://www.wowhead.com/spell=193316/roll-the-bones

split sorrel Jan 20, 2018, 2:41 PM

#

@boreal patrol oh yeah it's persistent not player

boreal patrol Jan 20, 2018, 2:41 PM

#

our goal is to clarify more things like that, feel free to give us suggestions as well

lime fox Jan 21, 2018, 11:16 PM

#

Can anyone confirm/deny that vanish+env is wrong/correct with nighstalker and WITHOUT mantle?

📎 wtf_html.html

torn dome Jan 22, 2018, 6:50 AM

#

Env>rup in opene should happen likely

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 6:54 AM

#

Yeah that seems off

#

With shoulders it makes sense. Average DPE of Rupture is 4.9m you gain 2.4m from +50%.. Average DPE of Envenom is 2m, but you will get 100% Crit for certain, which makes the damage 4.4m assured, so that's 2.2m over the expected average. When you account for the average Rupture damage being biased upwards by bracers for execute range, the damage in the opener is probably higher. (Think APL uses Rupture over Envenom with NS sub-30% with bracers)

#

Without shoulders, doesn't seem like it would be a win

torn dome Jan 22, 2018, 7:04 AM

#

Last time I fidled with forced openers and ns env vs rup it came out as: depends.

In opener it was more efficient to env.
Later on it was quite even but ruptur should realistically win by a lot if you can time the pandemic well and not screw over env/tier uptime.
And on top off that relics/mastery affects this

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 7:32 AM

#

Yeah

#

I suspect there are some complex interactions here with the fact that it's opening with Kingsbane and some other factors

#

Simply changing it to use Rupture doesn't appear to be a gain, but that could be a side-effect of other things

torn dome Jan 22, 2018, 7:36 AM

#

^

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 6:26 PM

#

Perhaps vanish env to help stack the ns kingsbane? Has anyone tried low cp opener rupture to line up earlier vanish rup w. vendetta?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 7:52 PM

#

So I think I have an APL improvement for the KB line that will resolve some of the issues people have pointed out recently.

#

Seems to be a 12k gain to open with KB when using Nightstalker but I had to play with the conditionals to keep it from messing with the other options.

#

Will do some additional testing tonight.

#

Will see if that plays into the Vanish stuff at all. Looking at that next.

boreal patrol Jan 22, 2018, 7:55 PM

#

cool

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 7:57 PM

#

@boreal patrol Do you think we actually need the Sinister Circulation conditional at this point?

boreal patrol Jan 22, 2018, 7:57 PM

#

i think last time i checked it was still an increase for older setups like noset or t20 or sth

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 7:58 PM

#

Seems like it’d be safe to simplify a bit now that you basically get Sinister Circulation like 10 mins after hitting 110 now 😛

boreal patrol Jan 22, 2018, 7:59 PM

#

yeah, the condition has been there for a while now

#

could possibly benefit from an update

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 8:02 PM

#

2nd KB line basically never gets hit outside of super rare conditions now seems like

#

Since the top line mostly just uses it on CD if not stealthed

#

Other than the boots/CoF/MA check kicks in

#

Going to investigate that one as well

proven sparrow Jan 22, 2018, 8:08 PM

#

I assume you'd still evenom/rupture with vanish even though you open with KB?¨

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 8:13 PM

#

Yes, just was referencing the question last night about Envenom vs Rupture w/ NS after Vanish

#

Also seems like even the T19 conditional in the Kingsbane line likely is defunct at current gear levels.

#

Since I’m seeing a gain removing that even forcing T19 set bonuses.

#

Also seems like the Boots/CoF conditional may be a loss nowadays as well

#

I’m going to guess that was an artifact of the old Vendetta logic before Aethys changed it to be on CD

#

New KB line I’m testing now seems like a gain or neutral in every combo I’ve tested, which is somewhat funny because of how simple it is.

#

actions.kb=kingsbane,if=talent.nightstalker.enabled|(!stealthed.rogue&time>2)

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 8:23 PM

#

does that simply kingsbane if you have it w. vanish/invis?

#

w. ns?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 8:24 PM

#

It will use KB from Stealth but Vanish lines for mid Combat might need tweaking to take full advantage

#

I’m guessing Vanish is still worth using on Rupture over KB mid fight though.

#

Mostly this just changes the opener

#

I’ll dig into that in a bit

#

Interestingly enough, this seems to result in Vanish being used on Rupture in the opener without Shoudlers and with NS instead of Envenom. Yay for knock on effects after changing something different. Haha.

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 8:35 PM

#

Does it change the timing enough to push vanish out of toxic blade somehow?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 8:54 PM

#

Ah. I see. Depends on if Kingsbane Crits due to CP.

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 9:21 PM

#

Would higher CP be env>rup?

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:14 PM

#

Hey, I ran a couple of different gear simulations using raidbots for my character. Boots and shoulders are simulating ahead of bracers and shoulders for me. Most of the top logs have bracers and shoulders pretty consistently. They simulate about 20,000 behind shoulders and Boots on Patchwerk for me. Is there a certain amount of stats that would cause this?

#

Also, the current hotfix with the deadly poison buff on poison knives isn't in the current SimC is it? Since it's temporary?

#

I think that on its own might make up the difference with my bracers.

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 10:17 PM

#

can you link your html report? depends on offpieces available

#

for instance:

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aoqsd3Scww6XKuk1jz3XoL

Raidbots

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:19 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/aGVPFfsbzHu9AMhruWqxgy

Raidbots

#

The thing I get confused about, is that what threshold or fight type do the bracers become better?

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 10:23 PM

#

likely just due to the fact that your gear set looks a lot better offpiece wise with boots

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:25 PM

#

I just wonder if with the bracers, the 20,000 becomes a lot less with RNG.

#

I don't know how you could empirically prove what's better. Don't bracers also forgive more movement oriented fights and fights with more adds?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:26 PM

#

@lime fox Vanish with NS always waits until max CP so that should be accounted for already.

lime fox Jan 22, 2018, 10:28 PM

#

i was assuming it had to do with if KB crits you could low CP rup into high CP vanish>rup to not waste as much w. pandemic, opposed to if you highroll initial CP and get a long rupture up, it would then vanish>env to not waste as much non-buffed rupture

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

I’m not really seeing a big difference here with Rupture vs Envenom at the moment. With the Envenom buffs and stuff I think it ends up being very close. I tried putting in a 30% w/Bracers condition and it didn’t appear to be a gain either. Generally seems best to just use Vanish as soon as possible and use the “correct” finisher at that time.

#

Because you can end up wasting damage both ways by forcing one or the other.

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

So just use whatever makes immediate sense when you vanish?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

At least with T21 that appears to be the case

#

Probably not so much with T20

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

And I know this is pretty straightforward, but if you have less than 2 minutes left in the fight, and Vendetta is not up, you should also hold it for Vendetta too obviously?

#

If you have more than two minutes left, but no Vendetta, you should probably use vanish* anyways?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:31 PM

#

Yeah I think the Vanish conditions could use some better logic for TTD

#

Right now there is very little

#

Because yeah, if it’s not going to yield another use. May as well wait for optimal timing.

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:32 PM

#

I usually glance at my kill timers estimated TTD, and if the Vendetta is not up for Vanish is, I will use it without Vendetta. If I don't have another opportunity to vanish for the rest of the fight, I will wait.

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:32 PM

#

That’s something I will make a note to look at tonight.

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:33 PM

#

I don't really know how you put that into simulation logic though. Would it just run potential Vendettas against potential vanishes based on fight duration and gear?

#

(boots or not etc)

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:34 PM

#

Can just check if target TTD < base CD of Vanish and > Vendetta CD + shoulder duration, can wait probably.

#

I think it does already wait for Vendetta to be up if not using T19. But that has its own issues with not checking TTD vs Vendetta CD

radiant creek Jan 22, 2018, 10:38 PM

#

I'm not sure how impactful it is overall, but I know with bracers, if you hit the jackpot, with that last-second Vendetta and vanish and you get a poison bomb, you're going to do the damage

#

So it's worth waiting

#

You were saying earlier though that rupture might be better Sub 30% if you can pandemic it without throwing a stick in your rotation?

knotty oriole Jan 22, 2018, 10:52 PM

#

I tried putting it in but it seemed neutral.

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 5:29 AM

#

So, who's responsible for the simscript profile standards?

knotty oriole Jan 23, 2018, 5:40 AM

#

Not sure there is anyone specific, but what's up?

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 5:43 AM

#

Thinking that using a base 960 ilvl for evaluating T19/20 bonuses is inflating its value somewhat

#

As getting 960 titanforges from 915/930 base items is a long shot

proven sparrow Jan 23, 2018, 5:47 AM

#

t20 are 930 by default in the profiles

#

Or atleast used to be, and doubt they changed it recently

knotty oriole Jan 23, 2018, 5:48 AM

#

Where were you seeing 960? That doesn't seem right if that's the case

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 5:48 AM

#

Where are the overrides? Was looking at the base profiles earlier, Arcane specifically

#

Oh wait, there we go

knotty oriole Jan 23, 2018, 5:50 AM

#

General standards are base ilevel in each dungeon for all loot, so if there's any profiles using tier or whatever at higher than base ilevel, that should probably be fixed yeah

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 5:52 AM

#

I was looking at the base profile, didn't realise there was a set of override stuff

#

Of course, using all the bonusID stuff makes it slighty confusing to work out what the ilvl actually is

#

What's 3519? 3518 is Mythic 905 for http://www.wowhead.com/item=138365/cloak-of-everburning-knowledge&bonus=3518:1502

#

          "back": "cloak_of_everburning_knowledge,id=138365,bonus_id=3519,enchant=binding_of_intellect",```

knotty oriole Jan 23, 2018, 5:56 AM

#

3519 is 910 ilevel I think

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 5:58 AM

#

Is there a reason why bonusIDs are used rather than just declaring the item level?

merry cloud Jan 23, 2018, 5:59 AM

#

Iirc for tooltip purpose

knotty oriole Jan 23, 2018, 6:00 AM

#

I believe primarily because there have been a few times where Blizzard has gone and changed the ilevel dynamically (ToS being one of them on PTR) and bonus_ids are a little easier to maintain in that regard, also for linking the tooltip correctly as Lorentz mentioned

naive steeple Jan 23, 2018, 6:07 AM

#

Makes sense

#

I'm looking into potential ways to graph the combinator data, so my first step is looking to see what isn't strictly necessary given that there are ~3500 results for Arcane

orchid bramble Jan 23, 2018, 10:01 AM

#

Does simcraft correctly apply Nightstaler only to the initial Kingsbane hits, or is the dot affected too?

torn dome Jan 23, 2018, 10:01 AM

#

Initial
Just like ingame

orchid bramble Jan 23, 2018, 10:03 AM

#

I tested it a week ago and it seemed like it was bugged... but now I think maybe my test was bad because of mantle

regal agate Jan 23, 2018, 10:12 AM

#

should still be consistent, given mantle duration and kb cast is the same

orchid bramble Jan 23, 2018, 11:31 AM

#

I believe confused the extra mantle duration gaind by using KB on pull with KB DOT getting nightstalker buff.

#

But clerly now I see its working

plucky mural Jan 23, 2018, 5:28 PM

#

I was looking at the apl for exang and it still fokked for filler. In one case did 4fok in a row. The sim seems pretty close to live, but I'm surely not fokking.

#

26.86 fan_of_knives,if=combo_points>=3+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&artifact.poison_knives.rank>=5|

#

ugh

boreal patrol Jan 23, 2018, 5:56 PM

#

yes, that was part of a recent apl change, you can use fok at 3+ (4+ with DS) CP when you have PK relics

plucky mural Jan 23, 2018, 6:08 PM

#

i see that, but.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

i swapped my 5pk for a cloak. and was a gain. so it probably isnt a benefit.

boreal patrol Jan 23, 2018, 6:10 PM

#

huh?

#

it won't fok anymore when you remove the PK relic

#

oh, i see what you mean

#

hm, interesting, in my checks it was a gain, you possibly found some edge case

plucky mural Jan 23, 2018, 6:12 PM

#

esp with the fok not proccing pk.

#

I just mut at 3.

#

ill check with it at >=4. cause I will always 6cp exang. how I get there depends on time.

boreal patrol Jan 23, 2018, 6:20 PM

#

well yeah, until PK is fixed this is theoretical only anyway. also, you may want to replace PK with something better as well

plucky mural Jan 23, 2018, 6:22 PM

#

Im working on it.

rain ice Jan 24, 2018, 12:14 AM

#

is simc nightly with 3% posion damage or real poison knives

knotty oriole Jan 24, 2018, 12:18 AM

#

Real PK, we never changed it on SimC because it was a temporary issue

#

Although this has lingered a bit longer than expected

delicate flax Jan 24, 2018, 12:31 AM

#

Day 7, still waiting for PK trait to come back :/
Seriously, how hard is it to fix this ? Does it really take a week ? Does it requires the weekly restart ?

#

I might be a bit away from the simulation field, sorry

timid rampart Jan 24, 2018, 1:10 AM

#

@knotty oriole Hey, what would an override line look like to sim with the DP "buffs" from PK trait ?

#

Even tho its just temporary, i'd like to sim weights with it.

fallow wave Jan 24, 2018, 2:07 AM

#

what rogue assassination skills are affected by weapon damage?

#

do we have a list in someplace?

lament cargo Jan 24, 2018, 2:23 AM

#

Mutilate, Fan of Knives, auto-attack.

#

End of list.

knotty oriole Jan 24, 2018, 2:24 AM

#

Kingsbane

gaunt gale Jan 24, 2018, 2:41 AM

#

Only the initial hit though, right?

knotty oriole Jan 24, 2018, 2:51 AM

#

Correct yeah, has a MH and OH component

halcyon widget Jan 24, 2018, 7:43 AM

#

Hi i was wondering if their is a standard stat for assassination to shoot for? Thanks

maiden cargo Jan 24, 2018, 11:18 AM

#

matery > crit > vers

#

around 30% crit hombre

torn dome Jan 24, 2018, 11:21 AM

#

No. The answer is sim

plucky mural Jan 24, 2018, 7:44 PM

#

Here is my sim of 3 Pk relics vs 3 Cloak relics. they are appox equal. So the fok condition can probably come out of the APL string (given ds)

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ohy8Dgq6GjmCbMTcpBmWRY

Raidbots

#

📎 unknown.png

proper cairn Jan 24, 2018, 10:05 PM

#

yeah but PK does dmg in M+

#

CoS doesn't

plucky mural Jan 24, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

just pointing out that ST rotation with no relic vs pk fok is a wash. ie, fok is probably never ideal at 1T >=3

proper cairn Jan 24, 2018, 10:55 PM

#

isnt the APL using FoK at 3 if PK relics is 5+ ?

finite thunder Jan 24, 2018, 10:56 PM

#

I think its using for 2+ target even with 4 PK traits

plucky mural Jan 24, 2018, 11:48 PM

#

yeah fok at >=3 with 5+

#

and I dont think it is a gain over straight mut.

lime void Jan 24, 2018, 11:56 PM

#

Hey guys quick question to know whether or not i have my rotation down:
1.27M DPS
927 ILVL
legendaries: The empty crown and Soul of the Shadowblade

latent steeple Jan 24, 2018, 11:59 PM

#

logs fam

#

link us logs

plucky mural Jan 25, 2018, 12:43 AM

#

Try the spec channel.

glass apex Jan 25, 2018, 4:56 PM

#

Is there a custom command for raidbots to sim the engine of eradication trinket with only 3 of 4 balls pick up ?

#

or just a reduced uptime by 25%

merry cloud Jan 25, 2018, 5:01 PM

#

📌

glass apex Jan 25, 2018, 5:03 PM

#

i am retarded

plucky mural Jan 25, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

is there a simple way to script a batch of times? when I run that in raidbots the Time mechanic overrides, and they are all the same.

copy= 2min
fight_time=120s

copy= 3min
fight_time=360

boreal patrol Jan 25, 2018, 5:52 PM

#

only way i know is to run multiple simulations

plucky mural Jan 25, 2018, 5:53 PM

#

thanks. I did that, and pulled out the dps at time intervals. for a spreadsheet. trying to nail down spec for the 3min fights vs 6mins.

#

was just hoping for a nice copy script

lofty kiln Jan 25, 2018, 6:09 PM

#

profileset.2min+=max_time=120

#

You won't get a full HTML report for that, though

#

Just a DPS number (or whatever metric you chose)

plucky mural Jan 25, 2018, 8:16 PM

#

@lofty kiln sorry is that a range of times, or just 1 set at 120seconds?

lofty kiln Jan 25, 2018, 8:17 PM

#

2min is the name of the profileset

#

max_time is the actual setting

plucky mural Jan 25, 2018, 10:17 PM

#

@magic tulip #assassination

magic tulip Jan 25, 2018, 10:17 PM

#

ok

junior spear Jan 25, 2018, 10:34 PM

#

which one to trust raidbots and simcraft gives abit different information. Pretty sure my settings in simcraft are ok

boreal patrol Jan 25, 2018, 10:36 PM

#

did you use a nightly for simc? raidbots is simc in the cloud, but updated more often from source. the simc release build is usually outdated rather quickly

junior spear Jan 25, 2018, 10:37 PM

#

nope, that might be the reason then

#

good to know, didnt actually know that simc and raidbots are samething

boreal patrol Jan 25, 2018, 10:38 PM

#

if you use raidbots and set it to nightly you usually have a cutting edge build

junior spear Jan 25, 2018, 10:39 PM

#

where I can set it to nightly?

#

raidbots that is

#

nvm found it, sim options -> simc version

boreal patrol Jan 25, 2018, 10:40 PM

#

😃

junior spear Jan 25, 2018, 10:43 PM

#

but thanks for help!

tawny arch Jan 26, 2018, 6:17 AM

#

Did something change in the assassination apl? Simming exact same gear as 30 mins ago and im 12-20k less depending on lege combos

knotty oriole Jan 26, 2018, 6:29 AM

#

Was probably this https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/commit/1e445f74736ac752ce366d5b0950dc4b2488b5b3

GitHub

[Rogue] Fix Sinister Circulation procs on failed applications · simulationcraft/simc@1e445f7

tawny arch Jan 26, 2018, 6:29 AM

#

👍

gleaming fern Jan 26, 2018, 11:59 AM

#

After doing quite a few m+ yesterday where I got to use it extensively, and talking it over with a few other rogues, it seems that PK is doing quite a bit less damage compared to the weeks before it got removed for ceremonial reasons. Is there conclusive evidence as to what is causing it?

#

The only thing I noticed is that it calculates the damage of the remaining duration even if the fok itself re-applies DP. The calculation used to be Fok > DP > PK, while now it seems its Fok > PK > DP, meaning that whenever you don't have a max duration DP and reapply DP with the fok, you're not going to get the maximum value out of PK.

#

I'm not entirely sure how PK-damage gets calculated in the sim right now

torn dome Jan 26, 2018, 12:09 PM

#

Youre correct

#

They did change that about pk calc

#

And sim should have had that change day or two ago

gleaming fern Jan 26, 2018, 12:13 PM

#

If it does, it either doesn't work properly or the difference on singletarget is so negligible that it doesn't show, because comparing the same profile in a 4day old build and the latest nightly has pk damage on singletarget a bit higher even than in the older build.

boreal patrol Jan 26, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

see my post in tc channel, i refined the simc model but it essentially worked that way before

torn dome Jan 26, 2018, 12:17 PM

#

Ah

#

Nice to have those updates tho 👌

gleaming fern Jan 26, 2018, 12:32 PM

#

Thanks for the clarification.

dire bridge Jan 26, 2018, 3:44 PM

#

Can someone look up my logs and give a bit of insight on my performance?

proper cairn Jan 26, 2018, 4:11 PM

#

post them in the spec channel

plucky mural Jan 26, 2018, 5:40 PM

#

how can i tell where the thumb ring is being used in APL?

merry cloud Jan 26, 2018, 5:44 PM

#

look for buff from it

plucky mural Jan 26, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

the sample key lines

#

got it

languid orchid Jan 27, 2018, 2:57 AM

#

Is it simple to get NC weights?

#

I can't seem to find it in simc.

wheat forge Jan 27, 2018, 3:46 AM

#

How do you add an additional target for 2 target cleave in simc ?

tawny arch Jan 27, 2018, 4:14 AM

#

Any chance 2 master assassin with ever sim properly? i know it's been a thing for a long time

knotty oriole Jan 27, 2018, 4:29 AM

#

It's not so much about it simming properly, it's really just about it having very little to no practical value given how we currently approach the rotation

#

This is always a risk with any cooldown reduction ability

#

I think every theorycrafter in the Rogue community I know of has taken a crack at trying to massage the rotation in order to get 2 relics to show some gain, but no luck so far 😃

plucky mural Jan 27, 2018, 5:15 AM

#

if the vendetta gaps around the vanish and you hold vanish until 3rd vendetta, you won't get a 3rd vanish in 5mins. Is that not what's happening?

torn dome Jan 27, 2018, 8:16 AM

#

No

#

Its about unlucky lining of misc spells.
It gets better if you sim 10 mins

#

So could be ttd improv aswell

maiden cargo Jan 27, 2018, 8:23 AM

#

is this still the opened the nightly simcraft is doing for sin rogue? https://i.imgur.com/uSHdMQZ.png i thought doing it like that was a minimal loss

Imgur

torn dome Jan 27, 2018, 8:30 AM

#

Its the old

#

Rb nightly?

maiden cargo Jan 27, 2018, 8:31 AM

#

i got this one https://i.imgur.com/gGe5Ltf.png

Imgur

#

not the newest one?

torn dome Jan 27, 2018, 8:34 AM

#

APL was updated but no new nightly

#

So unless you can compile your own youd have to use raidbots or wait

maiden cargo Jan 27, 2018, 8:35 AM

#

ah i see, ty

ashen crater Jan 27, 2018, 9:25 AM

#

Looks like Deeper Strategem APL could use some love too.

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6WrZWRFZwbvAKVY6MHBmqn/simc

Doesn't use vanish until over a minute into the fight (with shoulders).

Raidbots

cursive halo Jan 27, 2018, 10:17 AM

#

how do you Sim yourself to know the best secondary stats? is it using SimulationCraft or another program? can't seem to find where it tells me the stat priority. am I supposed to edit the script using different ring enchants to see which gives me the best DPS or is there another way

gaunt gale Jan 27, 2018, 10:18 AM

#

In the simc program there's an option to enable scaling

#

But I'd suggest using raidbots.com instead since it doesn't need regular updating

cursive halo Jan 27, 2018, 10:19 AM

#

ah alright. thank you @gaunt gale

tawny arch Jan 27, 2018, 3:01 PM

#

Did the assassination apl change again in nightly raidbots? down 13k in the exact same gear today vs last night

maiden cargo Jan 27, 2018, 4:21 PM

#

crucible weight string is updated, correct? Wanted to make sure because my 3rd MAlch relic is simming best using chaotic darkness and PK while raidbots says going lightspeed and Massassination is best...can anyone advise please?

regal agate Jan 27, 2018, 4:29 PM

#

crucible wight is an estimate, best is to trust your personal simulation.

maiden cargo Jan 27, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

I've been holding on to that last Massass relic for dear life for months, took a while to get it finally.

knotty oriole Jan 27, 2018, 4:53 PM

#

@tawny arch Don’t know exactly when Raidbots picked up some of the changes recently. There were APL changes but also some fixes to Sinister Circulation that were a loss.

#

I’d have to see your actual profile to know why though

shrewd geyser Jan 27, 2018, 7:29 PM

#

hey guys I am new to doing sims and when I did a sim it said I had a dps of 435k but in game I am usually around 700k. Did I do something wrong?

boreal patrol Jan 27, 2018, 7:32 PM

#

well, first of all, did you use raidbots or an up-to-date simc nightly?

#

aside from that, your ingame situation may differ significantly from simc situation

shrewd geyser Jan 27, 2018, 7:35 PM

#

I used simc

boreal patrol Jan 27, 2018, 7:38 PM

#

yes, the release build is from september though, you should get a nightly from here http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D or use raidbots.com for simc in the cloud

shrewd geyser Jan 27, 2018, 7:41 PM

#

ok great I will try the new simc one thanks

plucky mural Jan 28, 2018, 6:27 AM

#

@knotty oriole do we control when the Gnawed thumbring is used in a rotation? or is it just willy nilly?

knotty oriole Jan 28, 2018, 6:28 AM

#

I don't think there is any special handling for it at the moment

plucky mural Jan 28, 2018, 6:28 AM

#

currently it use on open with the ns. then on cd.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

i stacked mine with the vanish so it lands at 4:00

knotty oriole Jan 28, 2018, 6:29 AM

#

Sub syncs all use action with Shadow Blades but Assassination doesn't really have anything special

plucky mural Jan 28, 2018, 6:29 AM

#

not a big deal since it is 3min

#

shoulder window aligns really well with it at the 3rd vanish.

#

anyway. it doesnt need to be in the sim i guess. but thats just the proper place to use it.

knotty oriole Jan 28, 2018, 6:31 AM

#

Would be nice to include something more sensible

plucky mural Jan 28, 2018, 6:31 AM

#

I dont use it on open either. tbh. the kB window is longer than the ring.

#

prob better to buff the TBKB than miss the last tick of KB but thats a guess.

#

nbd. zzz

eager badge Jan 28, 2018, 12:56 PM

#

Can I sim Timewalking with scaled ilvl? If yes how and where?

plucky mural Jan 28, 2018, 2:31 PM

#

I doubt it. I have found that some skills don't scale well and are reducilous for the time. Like shoulders. My rog had 9% crit outside of shoulder. Another was the dfa aoe cleave. Seemed to be far too much of my % dmg.

knotty oriole Jan 28, 2018, 11:13 PM

#

As a quick note to anyone doing Assassination sims over the next few days. We have pushed a slightly restructured APL to help with future optimizations/maintaince. In theory, there should be no notable DPS changes from this. I have checked many different gear/spec combinations, but it is highly possible there are some edge cases where things were missed. If you noticed yourself simming dramatically lower, please ping me! Thanks!

#

late willow Jan 29, 2018, 5:25 PM

#

Do you all have syntax highlighting for APLs?

#

I made one for myself and notepad++ if anyone wants it

#

📎 unknown.png

split sorrel Jan 29, 2018, 5:31 PM

#

Mystler wrote one for VSCode IIRC

#

(I do use it)

late willow Jan 29, 2018, 5:32 PM

#

Ah okay, I'd assume others probably use it too. I was just sharing incase someone else hadn't yet.

torn dome Jan 29, 2018, 5:33 PM

#

Might wanna drop it anyway. People might see it later and try it out

boreal patrol Jan 29, 2018, 5:33 PM

#

certainly nice to cover more editors

#

fiery did one for sublime, mine is available for VS Code and n++ is probably some ppl use as well

late willow Jan 29, 2018, 5:34 PM

#

📎 simc_notepadpp_syntax

#

or https://pastebin.com/m30ywYpF

Pastebin

[XML] Notepad++ APL Syntax Highlight - Pastebin.com

#

if you dont trust files

split sorrel Jan 29, 2018, 5:35 PM

#

don't n++ got a market place or things like that ?

late willow Jan 29, 2018, 5:35 PM

#

Oh does it?

#

idk

knotty oriole Jan 29, 2018, 5:37 PM

#

I do use N++ for APL stuff sometimes so that seems quite cool 😃

#

I wish we supported something like this in the real SimC editor UI

worldly oasis Jan 29, 2018, 6:59 PM

#

Can anyone tell me why simulationcraft shows the sample opener as this:
https://gyazo.com/985c2ed03971834ce6489071350f72c1
(vendetta+kingbane->garrote->rupture->toxic blade->mutilate->arcane torrent->vanish+envenom->mut+envenom spam)
Is this somehow better than the regular opener : (garrote->mut->rupture->vendetta+toxicblade->kingsbane->vanish+envenom ->mut+envenom spam)

Wouldn't you get even more energy capped in the first opener? 🤔

Gyazo

torn dome Jan 29, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

youre using an old one

plucky mural Jan 29, 2018, 11:39 PM

#

is it easy to adjust an Exang APL to rupture 2x prior to the exang. like
Vend+Exang Ready: vendetta >=1cp rupture then mut to =6cp rupture exang. I want to see the bota fishing, and if that is better throughout a fight, or in bracer, or not at all.

tawny arch Jan 29, 2018, 11:59 PM

#

Can someone explain Herodamage updates from yesterday? Poison sin was 3 master alc is tops for the longest time and now it's showing 3 ma being best... not sure that's correct

#

Also insig/bracer glooblade/sf/mfd for sub??? Yet sims 28k less than standard shoulder/bracer 1311113

#

Reason I"m asking is that I have pretty close to BIS M pieces for both sin and sub and my sims are not in line at all with the new updated charts on HD

#

Or at least the changes are not reflected in raidbots or something

#

for example sin poison shoulder/bracer 1130011 is supposed to sim highest, yet for me that's coming in at 2.096 whereas head/boots 1230011 is coming in at 2.137and insig/boots and bracer/boots both 1230011 are both coming in at prety much 2.132. Those numbers are way off HD

knotty oriole Jan 30, 2018, 12:13 AM

#

"insig/bracer glooblade/sf/mfd for sub" where are you seeing that specifically?

#

I think that's just on the Sub page, not the Sub DfA page

tawny arch Jan 30, 2018, 12:14 AM

#

you're right, just checked, my mistake

#

i'm more worried about assassination being off for me though

knotty oriole Jan 30, 2018, 12:14 AM

#

Bracers value for Assassination will vary depending on if you are running fixed_time or not

#

Due to how execute mechanics work in single actor sims

#

With default settings execute/% damage things are undervalued... fixed_time, slightly overvalued but a lot closer to reality

#

Although I wouldn't expecte a difference of like 300k

#

That seems strange

#

It's worth considering that head/boots is only 1% below even on HeroDamage

#

So depending on what your slot options are for shoulders/helm/boots/bracers

#

It's not hard to think of a situation where head/boots could win

tawny wyvern Jan 30, 2018, 9:09 PM

#

Any ideas yet on how the new allied races are simming? 5% dmg proc sounds quite nice in theory. But not sure it’s better then human in theory?

tawny arch Jan 30, 2018, 9:16 PM

#

5% flat for 12 sec with a 60sec internal cd works out to be it being up 20% of the time.

#

Not sure what that ends up being as a total overall % to dmg increase

bronze gale Jan 31, 2018, 9:14 AM

#

^ that's what I want to know

#

idk how to sim that stuff, so if anyone gets a chance to sim it @ me

regal agate Jan 31, 2018, 9:15 AM

#

not all races are in simc now, be patient, we will have simulations soon

bronze gale Jan 31, 2018, 9:15 AM

#

Oh, is there a race option for simming on raidbots.com?

regal agate Jan 31, 2018, 9:16 AM

#

no you need to add them manual

#

like in the pastepin i pinned in #subtlety

#

will update it to include new races once the implementation is finished

bronze gale Jan 31, 2018, 9:19 AM

#

Alright sweet

bronze gale Jan 31, 2018, 9:42 AM

#

@regal agate tried to do a sim with the race pastebin as is out of curiosity, and I can't seem to figure out where to put the text

regal agate Jan 31, 2018, 9:42 AM

#

run a advanced simulation and paste it below the gear profile

bronze gale Jan 31, 2018, 9:43 AM

#

Ah okay

#

thanks

wind narwhal Jan 31, 2018, 5:21 PM

#

/trinkets

#

!trinkets

winged jettyBOT Jan 31, 2018, 5:21 PM

#

http://ravenholdt-tc.github.io/

steel zealotBOT Jan 31, 2018, 5:21 PM

#

List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

tranquil dust Feb 1, 2018, 12:18 AM

#

hi is it normal that i sim with shoulder+bracer lower then bracer+boots ?

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:26 AM

#

Shoulder/bracer sims 7th out of 10 for all my legs combos. Its behind the first best combo in sims by around 53k. Head/boots was number 1, followed by bracer/boots. It really depends on off pieces. The funny thing is even being 7/10, in practicality, my shoulders/bracers does the most damage(I’ve tested all my combos a lot). 6 almost 7/11M 969(for reference).

tranquil dust Feb 1, 2018, 12:30 AM

#

😄 ok interesting ...

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/ndz4Avcy4vNzbudDxHwm1s

Raidbots

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/jaZiGuVUF4sztDzfJs5q88

Raidbots

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:35 AM

#

I talked about it at length in pms with one of the theory crafters and his conclusion (because I was confused about it as well), was that it was due to offpieces not being as good in shoulder/bracer combo, OR because we didn’t add fixed_time=1 to the end of the apl when simming(apparently adding that makes sims with bracers more accurate and can lead to more simdps dps in results sometimes). Unfortunately adding fixed time didn’t work with my sim.

#

I’d also like some clarification as to why all of a sudden 3 master assassin relics is better than 3 master alchemists relics, since nothing really changed in the past while that would make master Assassin have more value(as far as I can tell-I may be wrong).

knotty oriole Feb 1, 2018, 12:37 AM

#

I looked into the Master Assassin issue

#

Basically I think it is due to the Sinister Circulation fix

#

Kingsbane has a slightly longer CD now in SimC, which is closer to reality

#

And Master Assassin 3 syncs very well with the timings

#

Basically makes your Vendetta match up with the average CD of Kingsbane within like <2s

swift haven Feb 1, 2018, 12:39 AM

#

So does this sound right 32k dps difference between human and void elf?

tranquil dust Feb 1, 2018, 12:40 AM

#

lel

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:40 AM

#

I see. Thank God 3 master Alcs is close l sim. Considering there are only 2 master assassin relics in Antorus and 1 is off coven(might take some guilds a while to get that). But there are 3 master Alcs off the first 7 bosses(which are not her hard).

knotty oriole Feb 1, 2018, 12:40 AM

#

Void Elf racials do seem quite strong to me but I haven't looked into the numbers myself

#

I'm Horde so sucks to be me anyway 😄

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:40 AM

#

Same

#

Void elf racial op

tranquil dust Feb 1, 2018, 12:41 AM

#

reroll 😄 ?

swift haven Feb 1, 2018, 12:41 AM

#

Hope it gets implemented cause 32k dps loss g oing void elf seems big

tranquil dust Feb 1, 2018, 12:41 AM

#

32k its pretty insane 😄 its like an extra trinket or something like else

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:42 AM

#

VE model is identical to blood elf BUT Nightborne is an anorexic version of night elf but with weird big shoulders and a shitty racial. Horse got screwed here

swift haven Feb 1, 2018, 12:42 AM

#

I mean losing dps by going void elf isnt okay

#

25$ wasted

#

T_T

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:43 AM

#

Are the sims out for the new racials??

swift haven Feb 1, 2018, 12:44 AM

#

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/124169701881282560/408412195643457558/unknown.png

#

posted i ngeneral by birb

#

So hoping its a plus cause dont think void is implementaed yet

#

now that I sat a boss and read it not in a hurry

tawny arch Feb 1, 2018, 12:45 AM

#

What do we add to the apl to sim the diff races in our sim?

plucky mural Feb 1, 2018, 1:29 AM

#

@knotty oriole with assassin restructuring will Someone be able to help me with bota fishing prior to exang in bracer?

knotty oriole Feb 1, 2018, 1:45 AM

#

I could assist at some point though in raid atm 😃

nimble parcel Feb 1, 2018, 1:16 PM

#

Anyone got any link to the racial sims?

late willow Feb 1, 2018, 1:16 PM

#

Thats racist! In all seriousness I think some work was added in the latestly night but I dont think anyone has looked at it

nimble parcel Feb 1, 2018, 1:17 PM

#

Ahh okay, thanks

crimson hinge Feb 2, 2018, 12:21 AM

#

is there any reason to doubt the accuracy of VE sims on the nightly?

tawny arch Feb 2, 2018, 12:29 AM

#

Here's what you add to the bottom of your sim for racial comparisons, but not sure how up to date the allied races sims are.

copy="Blood Elf"
race="blood_elf"
copy="Draenei"
race="draenei"
copy="Dwarf"
race="dwarf"
copy="Gnome"
race="gnome"
copy="Human"
race="human"
copy="Night Elf (Night)"
race="night_elf"
timeofday="night"
copy="Night Elf (Day)"
race="night_elf"
timeofday="day"
copy="Orc"
race="orc"
copy="Tauren"
race="tauren"
copy="Troll"
race="troll"
copy="Undead"
race="undead"
copy="Goblin"
race="goblin"
copy="Worgen"
race="worgen"
copy="Pandaren"
race="pandaren"
copy="Highmountain Tauren"
race="highmountaintauren"
copy="Void Elf"
race="voidelf"
copy="Lightforged Draenei"
race="lightforgeddraenei"
copy="Nightborne"
race="nightborne"

swift haven Feb 2, 2018, 1:08 AM

#

Dont think that the sims have been updated yet pretty sure still a few issues with racials

regal agate Feb 2, 2018, 12:27 PM

#

the "" are not required in the context of racecopy="name of race" race=name

split sorrel Feb 2, 2018, 12:44 PM

#

In fact, "" are needed only if you need space

#

Whatever the option is

regal agate Feb 2, 2018, 1:13 PM

#

true

wet peak Feb 2, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

Is there any collection of stat weights with various gear levels?

#

primarly looking for outlaw/assass

plucky mural Feb 2, 2018, 7:17 PM

#

@wet peak pawn has generic ones built in.

boreal patrol Feb 3, 2018, 2:01 AM

#

i'll add a variation

tawny arch Feb 3, 2018, 2:20 AM

#

So head/insignia sims 2169892 and shoulder/bracer at 2136391. Even adding in the couple of missing bis pieces to my shoulder/bracer sim, it still only puts it at about a tie with my helm/insig sim. Very confused as to how there can be a 33k variation considering shoulder/bracer is "the best" in sims and logs.

#

in fact, im confused about this whole gear set

#

Helm/Ring 2169892
Boots/Helm 2167132
Boots/Ring 2163532
Bracer/Ring 2155699
Helm/Bracer 2154084
Bracer/Boot 2152712
Should/Wrist 2136391

#

off pieces can't be worth that much can they?

#

mind u in the above combos, except shoulder/wrist, subter sims higher than ns

boreal patrol Feb 3, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

somewhat lacking details, but i've seen off pieces make that or more of a difference, so it's quite possible

tawny arch Feb 3, 2018, 3:00 PM

#

The funny thing is I've tested each of the above combinaitons thorougly in raid and shoulders/bracers still performs the best. I will provide more detils in a sec

knotty oriole Feb 3, 2018, 3:02 PM

#

I mean, anecdotal raid testing really doesn't reflect all that much

#

Simulation results are just an average of many iteration results and the natural variance due to RNG is far higher than the differences being discussed here. This is why you need so many iterations to know with confidence which are "best" options.

#

Because even thousands of iterations could have one over the other just based on RNG

boreal patrol Feb 3, 2018, 3:04 PM

#

also raid bosses != single target patchwerk sim, often

#

esp bracers scale a lot with execute phase duration which can very per group

tawny arch Feb 3, 2018, 3:09 PM

#

"I mean, anecdotal raid testing really doesn't reflect all that much"
So are you suggesting I use the highest simming gear then?

boreal patrol Feb 3, 2018, 3:11 PM

#

no, we're suggesting to combine personal simulations with thinking about how the simulation scenario reflects the raid boss you're playing

knotty oriole Feb 3, 2018, 3:12 PM

#

Well, I'm just suggesting that the results are not specifically wrong in the context of SimC. But when the difference in sims is so small, the practical application of certain things may take precedence. e.g. does your raid need an Execute mechanic or not.

tawny arch Feb 3, 2018, 3:14 PM

#

Right, but I mean more or less every boss but Eonar has a proper excution phase( as far as I know anyway-6 almost 7/11m so far).

#

I am just curious what gearset is that Hero Damage uses for it's sims. Because I am only a couple pieces off what every top rogue uses in the top logs and so I added all those pieces to a hypothetical sim and the sim results end up tieing my current best sim(helm/ring). at around 2.170

#

Just wondering if HD also added in the crit/mast shoulders, bracers, helm, and gloves to all the itterations as offpieces

boreal patrol Feb 3, 2018, 3:21 PM

#

Hero Damage uses only unforged gear at base level (so 960 for M Antorus or even lower if a profile uses pieces from older content). Also, Combinator was designed with mass comparison and outlier finding in mind so it's not 100% guaranteed every setup is fully optimized under those conditions. I wrote a Blog article on HD about that a while ago.

radiant creek Feb 3, 2018, 10:13 PM

#

Sometimes the small thing I got hung up on is when I should swap out sims for common sense. At what threshold to use logic over what sims higher. Crown/shoulders Sims higher for me than Shoulders/bracers. I do have a pair of 975 bracers though. I just feel that unless you have a very small execute phase and stuff is on super farm, bracers will generally be more helpful and even pull ahead.

modern ermine Feb 4, 2018, 1:04 AM

#

how accurate is simcraft for dps? based on what it gave me i should be doing 2-300k more dps. which means my rotations off drastically.

smoky wind Feb 4, 2018, 4:01 AM

#

set_bonus=TierXY_4pc=1 isnt working on raidbots?

#

is there a problem with it?

plucky mural Feb 4, 2018, 5:39 AM

#

@modern ermine post a log in the spec channel and someone may be able to help. If you were within +/- 5% of sim, would not be unreasonable.

merry cloud Feb 4, 2018, 7:28 AM

#

@smoky wind don't use capital letters

regal agate Feb 4, 2018, 10:29 AM

#

This works perfectly fine (as an example)
set_bonus=Tier21_2pc=0

steady mesa Feb 4, 2018, 11:19 AM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/9aKvocZ7FvrF2QeMKvXBDm check this out, somehow CoS heal trait sims 10k higher than AR cooldown reduction one, both weekly and nightly

Raidbots

regal agate Feb 4, 2018, 11:24 AM

#

can you try changing fight length and look if it still remains a win?

steady mesa Feb 4, 2018, 12:11 PM

#

@regal agate I've just noticed that my sim was without 4xT21 by mistake, so i've run both wrong and right gear sets in 1, 5, 10 min sims and CoS wins only in 5, 10 min without 4xT21, with 4xT21 AR wins more the longer fight keeps.
1 min 4xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/eDUrFpTxLWjbmbB9Tc6Eks
5 min 4xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/h9taCmjrBDtpxT7y3ZUgpd
10 min 4xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/oRwg5ikEhCiQXeRtmibUku

1 min 3xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/7ixpGzqXMrSgBEmPAPU1BF
5 min 3xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/3p9c9pe2mcaZWdSr7dEKzA
10 min 3xT21 - https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/6io3fsRMYopY3BEcPusfLZ

Raidbots

regal agate Feb 4, 2018, 12:23 PM

#

might be related to the ar condition, thanks for the simulations.
looking at the condition it kind of uses it on cooldown 🤔 (so probably cd alignment in general)

steady mesa Feb 4, 2018, 12:30 PM

#

Not like im super bothered by it as its spec I didnt use at all, but just wanted to check if I can place this relic somewhere atleast and found this starnge result, so i've shared out of curiousity

plucky mural Feb 4, 2018, 4:15 PM

#

I haven't played much snd. But I have heard there is some delay of cotdb around the ar cd. So probably that alignment issue. Where sim may pop them off on cd.

lone scroll Feb 4, 2018, 10:35 PM

#

This is a strange behaviour, at least I found ... tested 5min, 7min, 8min running poison mantle-bracers ns
Nobody plays every second vanish like that, imo 🤷
https://snag.gy/I8v2kH.jpg

knotty oriole Feb 4, 2018, 11:57 PM

#

What’s the concern with that?

lone scroll Feb 4, 2018, 11:58 PM

#

vanish into rupture with mantle :< just FeelsWeirdMan

knotty oriole Feb 5, 2018, 12:00 AM

#

It’s a gain in some situations if the timing is optimal for a pandemic refresh.

#

But generally not worth ever delaying KB/TB/Vendetta to make it happen every time

delicate flax Feb 5, 2018, 6:11 AM

#

Hello !

I don't know how the 'cycle_target' exactly works on simcraft.
like for this line :
actions.finish+=/nightblade,cycle_targets=1,if=blabla

Is it possible to restrict the nightblade cycle to only 2 targets on a 3 targets fight ?

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 11:35 AM

#

yes its possible

#

should be covered in the simc apl wiki

knotty oriole Feb 5, 2018, 4:10 PM

#

Yeah it’s max_cycle_targets=3 or whatever

split sorrel Feb 5, 2018, 4:16 PM

#

active_dot.rupture

#

or in you case, active_dot.nightblade

#

https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/ActionLists#dots 😉 😉

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 4:30 PM

#

Exang: can someone help me with a bota check at any vanish in bracer. (tbh any vanish would be fine) Id like to see a full fish vs a bracer fish.

prior to vanish, i want >=1 cp rupture if bota then vendetta mut to =6cp vanish rupture exang.

Rupture ?no
mut rupture? no
garrote rupture? yes
vendetta mut mut vanish rupture exang.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

probably hard to code a stopgap of 3 max bota fish though.

#

I get that APL is rigid and sucks for non hard coded conditionals. So if that is unreasonable, I will just continue to pray for bota, and use my feely crafts.

#

my envenom damage contribution is so low, I am ok with a 1cp rupture loss for chances at higher duration 100% damage to a 50% ns with bracer.

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:09 PM

#

you: "Nah, thats too much work to support a spec no one plays"

Me: Ok thanks.

#

looks like this.

📎 unknown.png

#

a 4M peak without vanish or pb is nice. it as 5M with bomb

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 5:22 PM

#

apl is dynamic, if sth is not dynamic its the one maintaining it

#

if you want to play around a certain proc, just add the conditions to the apl

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:23 PM

#

i can read the apl, i cant write it. standard engineer problem. I know what I want it to do, no ~~clue how~~ time to make it work.

split sorrel Feb 5, 2018, 5:25 PM

#

Doubt an engineer can't write an APL

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:26 PM

#

im civil

#

I could prob learn.

#

I guess this is the spot.

#

📎 unknown.png

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 5:47 PM

#

if you want to ristrict a use or allow an additional condition you just need to add the conditions for it to do so

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

o neat.

#

actions+=/strict_sequence,

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 5:49 PM

#

you can use a logical AND & to restrict the use and a OR | to add a additional use case

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

I could probably write this.

#

📎 unknown.png

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 5:52 PM

#

i dont see a need of it

plucky mural Feb 5, 2018, 5:52 PM

#

when exang and vendetta and vanish are ready then it would fire off

garrote rupture vendetta mut mut vanish rupture exang.

#

I want a rupture within 3sec prior to the exang.

#

i specifically want 2 swipes of rupture per exang.

#

gets:
2 failed bota
1 bota 1 fail
1 fail 1 bota
2 bota.

#

Ive been seeing single rupture values from 27M to 30M per cast.

#

it is worth a look to me.

regal agate Feb 5, 2018, 5:55 PM

#

well feel free to share your results

knotty oriole Feb 6, 2018, 12:55 AM

#

Still a little unclear what exactly you are suggesting. Strict sequences are really not the way to go generally, since it's exactly what you were concerned about earlier ("is rigid and sucks for non hard coded conditionals") it's better to encode this in some rule for the conditionals. e.g. triggering vanish or exsang if debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up or debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.remains>N or something like that. But not totally sure what generic case you're shooting for here that wouldn't result in major cooldown loss from delaying if things doesn't work out.

gray flume Feb 6, 2018, 7:06 AM

#

iirc simc assumes w/ Engine of Eradication that you're picking up every orb, correct?

split sorrel Feb 6, 2018, 7:07 AM

#

by default yes, but you can customize it IIRC

#

remind me that we talked about adding it to the trinkets chart like specter

#

like a 50% version or smth like that

gray flume Feb 6, 2018, 7:07 AM

#

yeah, cuz mythic vari...sometimes can't fetch them

merry cloud Feb 6, 2018, 7:07 AM

#

there is an option

#

📌

gray flume Feb 6, 2018, 7:23 AM

#

got it, ty @merry cloud

plucky mural Feb 6, 2018, 12:52 PM

#

@knotty oriole it can be as simple as a garrote rupture prior to the 6cp vanish rupture exang. That's it. The 2x ruptures per exang will increase the chances of getting bota. 1cp is still 35%.

#

If it shows to be a gain at the bracer vanish, then maybe at any vanish. Then maybe at any exang.

#

I just wanted help cleaning the rotation up. It can be >=1. So any leftover cps going in. Would be fine.

#

Don't even need a bota trigger. It does or it doesn't proc. Just need that 1 extra rupture in the sequence.

ashen crater Feb 6, 2018, 5:42 PM

#

Is it each cast of rupture that can trigger BotA? Or each tick of rupture dmg?

merry cloud Feb 6, 2018, 5:44 PM

#

cast

lone scroll Feb 7, 2018, 4:19 AM

#

fixed_time (scope: global; default: 0), when different from zero, will enable the Fixed Time model. Enabling this setting will ignore the override.target_health setting.

#

Is the APL not handling execute by default when you sim bracers?

#

or let me ask differently - is the simulation hitting a dummy with unlimited life and execute does not have the effect to let a lifepool drop faster

boreal patrol Feb 7, 2018, 8:41 AM

#

fixed_time makes boss health uniform to fight length, so basically <30% phase is the last 30% of the simulated combat time. by default, simc uses a health estimator instead

#

see https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/wiki/Options#time-based-models

lone scroll Feb 7, 2018, 1:16 PM

#

@boreal patrol so this helps towards bracers for a more realistic result, due to how health is skewed with the default setting?

boreal patrol Feb 7, 2018, 1:17 PM

#

eh, yes and no

#

execute phase depends a lot on your group, both health estimator and fixed_time can be very different from that

#

personally when i compared a few sims with my group's logs (for 90% belt phase a few months ago) i found health estimator to match better

lone scroll Feb 7, 2018, 1:19 PM

#

I see, thanks for pointing it out

boreal patrol Feb 7, 2018, 1:20 PM

#

if you are interested in it, you can always sim both and check the health % duration in the sim report

plucky mural Feb 7, 2018, 2:57 PM

#

got it

#

📎 unknown.png

maiden cargo Feb 8, 2018, 11:25 PM

#

hey guys, come back to wow after a couple months break and go to sim my character to optimize for assa, only to find that im simming for around 550k. the reality however is that im pulling around 1.3m on a dummy during a 3 min fight. could anyone help with where i might be going wrong? thank you 😃

finite thunder Feb 8, 2018, 11:37 PM

#

maybe wrong simc version?

#

you can use raidbots.com, dont need to worry about updating software 😛

maiden cargo Feb 8, 2018, 11:45 PM

#

i updated it all before trying :/

#

but thats cool, thanks man

#

i'll check it out

odd sedge Feb 8, 2018, 11:49 PM

#

shouldnt prefered food be 475 versa for all rogue specs? dmf feast

#

and how can one sim this?

covert jacinth Feb 9, 2018, 12:08 AM

#

ye it is the best for all 3 with high gear

#

food=lemon_herb_filet should do it

tawny arch Feb 9, 2018, 12:13 AM

#

Verse food is best for all 3 specs? Not for assassination it's not

covert jacinth Feb 9, 2018, 12:17 AM

#

https://i.gyazo.com/aa378b2e801c76b9e393f43331594a28.png

#

its gear dependant

tawny arch Feb 9, 2018, 12:17 AM

#

hmm, mast is still 1st for me at 972

#

right

#

sucks u can't use lemon in m+ though

odd sedge Feb 9, 2018, 12:22 AM

#

Class=Rogue, Spec=Assassination, CritRating=51.44, Agility=32.63, HasteRating=32.41, MasteryRating=50.1, Versatility=41.78

#

this is my weights, versa >>>>> agi

#

mastery food gives me 18.787 stats, versa 19845.5

#

how did you sim that in raidbots cawt? i´ve been trying with little success

plucky mural Feb 9, 2018, 12:28 AM

#

Just gear and spec dependent.

#

The 1% vers is better for me I think.

lime fox Feb 9, 2018, 12:29 AM

#

you also can just use your stat weights*375/475/500 to determine whats best

#

and you can use lemon in m+

#

feeest

plucky mural Feb 9, 2018, 12:30 AM

#

And it's instant.

lime fox Feb 9, 2018, 12:31 AM

#

also vers lowers dmg taken which can be very relevant

#

all these hunters dont want vers food but they dead every pull 🤔

ivory jungle Feb 9, 2018, 4:24 AM

#

hi, how to simulate every combination in the bag? using simulation craft

split sorrel Feb 9, 2018, 4:27 AM

#

Raidbots can do it for you

ivory jungle Feb 9, 2018, 4:28 AM

#

premium

#

unless it let me copy its string

#

ill try

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

you dont need to be patreaon to sim multiple combinations, tho patreon has a higher iteration limit

boreal patrol Feb 9, 2018, 12:33 PM

#

if you want to sim locally, raidbots give you the simc input indeed, alternatively you can use the addon SimPermut

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 12:35 PM

#

how do i change the food type through raidbots?
i tried changing it in advanced for a copy, but it still used the feast
(trying to sim the fish feast from darkmoon fair btw)

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 12:37 PM

#

if you want to compare

food=name```

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 12:38 PM

#

oh, i tried using the whole line like pre_combat_action etc..

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 12:41 PM

#

this would be an example for the versa darkmoon food

food=lemon_herb_filet```

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 12:42 PM

#

yeah i tried this

food=sugar_crusted_fish_feast```
but it made the sim not use any food. at all.
is it not implemented in SimC?

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 12:42 PM

#

the feast is not supported iirc

#

but there is no need as you can use the above

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 12:43 PM

#

it gives the same amount of stats?

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 12:43 PM

#

yes (its the same food, the feast is just cheaper if you have 3 or more ppl using it)

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 12:43 PM

#

alright, thanks

#

well, intresting, it actually sims 0.1% higher

#

@split sorrel do you think it's worth changing the default profile to use lemon herb fillet?
it's nothing huge, like 2k difference

split sorrel Feb 9, 2018, 12:50 PM

#

why not, doesn't matter much tbh ^^

boreal patrol Feb 9, 2018, 1:00 PM

#

not sure if we want to use the filet as default food, it is rather "special" as in more pricey and only available via Darkmoon Faire

willow pecan Feb 9, 2018, 1:10 PM

#

i don't think that should be a limiting factor
there's usually enough on auction house to buy

regal agate Feb 9, 2018, 1:11 PM

#

some profiles use it already, i dont see an issue using it in the default profile

oak hawk Feb 11, 2018, 10:25 AM

#

Subtlety > Assassin still. Despite current logs i still find sub doing more dps than Assassin can anyone else confirm? also anyone else believe that outlaw is going to be top dog in Battle For Azeroth (potential rework of RtB)?

regal agate Feb 11, 2018, 10:59 AM

#

it can be the case for you. sin is in general tuned higher and easier to execute

golden warren Feb 11, 2018, 6:22 PM

#

@oak hawk -> "Despite current logs""sub doing more dps than Assassin can anyone else confirm" logs can confirm .-.

median verge Feb 12, 2018, 12:56 AM

#

when you sim on raidsbots

#

does it include the set bonus on your gear

willow pecan Feb 12, 2018, 12:59 AM

#

yes

median verge Feb 12, 2018, 1:01 AM

#

ty

opaque sorrel Feb 12, 2018, 3:58 AM

#

is the raven relic sims on mut poison build accurate? i mean for the MA relics specifically. On the raven chart is saying 2 MA is a dps loss from 1 MA and it jumps a lot to 3 MA

gaunt gale Feb 12, 2018, 4:00 AM

#

weirdly, yes

manic pulsar Feb 12, 2018, 10:14 PM

#

in an assassination APL, how would I check if garrote is exsanguinated? I know I can do like:
garrote,if=refreshable&!exsanguinated
but, how would I check if garrote is exsanguinated when executing a different action, like:
actions+=/vanish,if=[garrote is not exsanguinated]
can i just do !dot.garrote.exsanguinated ?

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 10:30 PM

#

@manic pulsar i like where your head is at.

#

dont know the answer but exsang or bust

#

that would be really shitty, to vanish during the exang rotation. hope the apl isnt doing anything like that.

#

📎 unknown.png

#

that garrote refresh seems to be common. and wrong.

manic pulsar Feb 12, 2018, 10:44 PM

#

I tried !dot.garrote.exsanguinated and it didn't complain, so that might work

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 10:45 PM

#

the best way to play that imo is using my 2p20 garrote prior to the exang.

#

else letting it fall off. after exang drops.

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:22 PM

#

Hi. If i would like to sims ratings instead of gear on simc how would i do that

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:23 PM

#

sorry, tough wording there. do you want to get stat weights out of a simulation?

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:25 PM

#

oh. no not stat weight realy. instead of using gear , using like crit=10000 haste-5000 master=10000 versa=5000 and vary the numbers to see things

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:25 PM

#

yeah, you can do that.

#

sec

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:25 PM

#

oh nice 😃

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:26 PM

#

you can use the copy command to run multiple stat spectrums.

#

at the bottom of your html output are these numbers.

#

take off the # to override

#

📎 unknown.png

#

would be in advanced.

#

Gear Summary

gear_ilvl=956.31

gear_agility=33941

gear_stamina=52397

gear_crit_rating=13061

gear_haste_rating=1415

gear_mastery_rating=9623

gear_versatility_rating=4644

gear_speed_rating=640

gear_armor=2817

set_bonus=tier20_2pc=1

set_bonus=tier21_2pc=1

set_bonus=tier21_4pc=1

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:28 PM

#

oh nice its that simple.

#

do i erase the above gear section?

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:29 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

erase the apl section. and the .jsn line

#

then voila you have the advanced import.

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:30 PM

#

merci. will give it a try now

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:30 PM

#

gl

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:38 PM

#

it works. im using the pc version atm. thanks for the tip.

#

what the copy command syntax

plucky mural Feb 12, 2018, 11:40 PM

#

copy="15k crit"
gear_crit_rating=15000

#

for example

#

When i do these, i try to keep the total weights equal. Subtract some mastery to add some crit etc. not sure if that helps you though.

dense mountain Feb 12, 2018, 11:43 PM

#

let me try it

#

thats exactly what i needed Thanks @plucky mural

granite escarp Feb 13, 2018, 7:48 PM

#

Is there any way to compare two sets of gear across different fight lengths?

I've noticed some top-parsing rogues on Mythic Argus (the final boss, to be clear, and sometimes apparently for Aggramar too) dropping shoulders for boots, and wanted to try it myself. After running a few sims it looks like the breakpoint for me is around 5-6 minutes, but it would be nice to see it in one report.

boreal patrol Feb 13, 2018, 7:59 PM

#

boots give more energy on argus because the boss has a larger hitbox

#

you'll get maximum energy form boots on King and Garothi, also

#

there is an offset option for simc to sim it

granite escarp Feb 13, 2018, 8:14 PM

#

To clarify, I'm talking about Assassination rogues dropping Mantle of the Master Assassin for Duskwalker's Footpads on certain fights. I assumed that this was due to fight length, as Mantle seems to perform worse the longer the fight is.

Why did you mention something about hitbox? Were you talking about Assassination rogues using Duskwalker's Footpads, or another spec and item?

plucky mural Feb 13, 2018, 8:35 PM

#

@granite escarp you can just run the gear compare at 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, mins. and put the info in a spreadsheet.

#

If you use desktop version you can prob copy and do time overrides.

granite escarp Feb 13, 2018, 8:41 PM

#

Thanks Noobe. Sounds like there's no way to do a fight-time comparison all in one step without a bit of manual work at the moment. (I'm not missing anything, then.)

plucky mural Feb 13, 2018, 8:47 PM

#

I tried this a while back. was not as easy as I wanted. so i used the spreadsheet.

boreal patrol Feb 13, 2018, 10:18 PM

#

lol, sorry, nevermind what i said i for some strange reason assumed you were talking about sub boots

#

what i said makes zero sense in your context, so just ignore it 😄

modest elbow Feb 14, 2018, 11:43 AM

#

is there some way to sim a character with the bleed/poison scaling that will come in BfA?

merry cloud Feb 14, 2018, 11:47 AM

#

you can try to compile bfa version of simc if it has those things implemented

boreal patrol Feb 14, 2018, 11:56 AM

#

bfa simc development version is currently rather broken because we need to adjust for the AP scaling changes

modest elbow Feb 14, 2018, 11:57 AM

#

is there a bfa version of simc? I was thinking you could override spells with bleed effects to dot effects that scales with haste or something like that

#

oh right

boreal patrol Feb 14, 2018, 11:57 AM

#

no, there's no simple override for that

modest elbow Feb 14, 2018, 11:58 AM

#

aight well I'll have to wait then I guess

boreal patrol Feb 14, 2018, 11:59 AM

#

if you like dev stuff, you can grab the simc bfa branch and compile yourself, but that version is very much WIP and not yet helpful to get a picture of what the specs will be like in the end. it will take a while for a "public" release

#

we intend to release previews on Hero Damage, however, as soon as we have both simc and BfA Alpha in a better state

modest elbow Feb 14, 2018, 12:02 PM

#

I just wanted to know what horde race to pick for assassination rogue (im a min/max guy) with the haste scaling in mind (considering the troll racial) so not that big of a deal

split sorrel Feb 14, 2018, 12:08 PM

#

prob by the end of feb/march

#

depending on BfA schedule

#

basically when lvl 120 will be available (& all the azerite stuff)

plucky mural Feb 15, 2018, 2:13 AM

#

will bfa Prepatch at 110 keep artifact and new talent tree? will be a weird transition.

golden warren Feb 15, 2018, 5:19 AM

#

from what they tell, we gonna lose our weapon at 110 and lvling with new weapons from dat( prob gain a unpowered when we deliver ours ) , and play with the new talents already

crystal gust Feb 15, 2018, 7:49 AM

#

Hi, it is possible to track CoF procs on WarcraftLog, if yes How?

regal agate Feb 15, 2018, 10:09 AM

#

@plucky mural we dont know yet, assumption is that the lego weapon get dissabled

boreal patrol Feb 15, 2018, 10:22 AM

#

i assume artifact will only be a "husk" during prepatch, no idea about legendaries

modest elbow Feb 15, 2018, 11:11 AM

#

is statscaling broken if you compile the latest legion-dev branch?

split sorrel Feb 15, 2018, 11:34 AM

#

No why it would ?

#

Depends what you do

modest elbow Feb 15, 2018, 12:48 PM

#

then i probably broke something by adding hasteticks on bleeds and poisions, oh well

ember ferry Feb 15, 2018, 10:52 PM

#

sooooooo is simc broken or something? The only version I see is 730 release 2 for the latest one...and the numbers are SUPER broken right now for my spec and class.

plucky mural Feb 15, 2018, 10:53 PM

#

@ember ferry check raidbots using nightly. rogue numbers are pretty solid.

ember ferry Feb 15, 2018, 10:53 PM

#

copy that

boreal patrol Feb 15, 2018, 11:22 PM

#

simc releases happen somewhat infrequently, i recommend using raidbots or downloading a nightly build

ember ferry Feb 15, 2018, 11:27 PM

#

thanks for the info

golden warren Feb 16, 2018, 12:36 PM

#

ik the AoE simc r not that relevant, but the raidbot is aiming for garrote over spam env and using the 4pc tier, for what i played and trys when there is 100% crit at like 10 targets is better fok>env
and without shoulders buff u keep with the 4pc bonus and dot rupture/garrote between envenom
@knotty oriole

#

📎 unknown.png

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/4eVHyZcD9Pbeg2RcDCYY1K

Raidbots

#

1min lenght and 10 bosses

plucky mural Feb 16, 2018, 2:23 PM

#

@golden warren the vanish 3x garrote is fantastic. Ive been using a hecticaddcleave 3boss 1min to simulate M+, but should look at the apl. its probably doing dumb shit like this too.

golden warren Feb 16, 2018, 2:35 PM

#

for subterfuge i can see the can be a point the garrote over env spamm is better , but for NS there is problem to, vanish>rupture and rupture inside mantle buff

📎 unknown.png

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/i1KSk9PLfSbRAPQvAE1U9E

Raidbots

knotty oriole Feb 16, 2018, 3:32 PM

#

Currently the APL is only optimized for “common” target counts. Haven’t really looked at higher numbers like 10+ previously.

#

The Garrote thing is incorrect and just a result of the new Stealthed list taking priority over the AoE list. I will fix that. Garrote shouldn’t be used on 3+ targets in most cases.

knotty oriole Feb 17, 2018, 3:51 AM

#

Ok, I have checked in an APL fix for the Garrote issue. Will still allow 3x Garrote when appropriate but should be a little smarter about it wrt CPs. However, I think that case with 3x -> 3x is probably reasonable. Garrote's DPET is as high as a max CP Rupture when using Subterfuge so really no reason not to use it in this case.

#

Also integrated some other stuff for Exsang Garrote as per the discussion a few days ago, Mystler tested a line that appears to be an improvement for the non-T20 4pc builds

#

I didn't see any gain in preferring FoK for 10 targets over Envenom. You still need finishers to proc Poison Bomb

#

And on 10 Targets you should be using Rupture (in theory) on every target anyway, which will only be using Envenom when the buff is down

#

And you want Envenom buff up for FoK/DP/PK interactions

#

(But as I mentioned, the APL isn't really optimized for super high target count in general, kinda an edge case)

modest ravine Feb 17, 2018, 7:27 AM

#

the ulduar trinkets arent in the sim list are they?

plucky mural Feb 17, 2018, 8:05 AM

#

@modest ravine no. there is a list on wowhead, and you can easily sim them at 930 in raidbots gear compare.

modest ravine Feb 17, 2018, 8:06 AM

#

I got the fire one at 945

#

1330 haste with 10k agility proc

plucky mural Feb 17, 2018, 8:06 AM

#

will make a strong open.

modest ravine Feb 17, 2018, 8:07 AM

#

Quick testing showed 33% uptime

plucky mural Feb 17, 2018, 8:07 AM

#

just make sure to set your scrap to not vendor it

split sorrel Feb 17, 2018, 8:07 AM

#

Yes planning to add it shortly

#

Should have been earlier

#

Sorry for the delay

modest ravine Feb 17, 2018, 8:08 AM

#

Oh really? Not expecting it to be nerfed?

#

10k with that uptime feels kind of broken

#

If it's rppm. They may change it to flat internal cd or something

brave agate Feb 18, 2018, 5:54 PM

#

hey guys. Hope i'm in the right place. Looking for some advise when simming my sub rogue. Should i be simming for single target or cleave for the Antorus raid? Reason I ask is most boss fights are single target. When I sim my character it advises crit is better then mastery and mastery is only better for cleave fights. though when I look at logs and stuff every sub rogue is running mastery gems/ enchants. Sorry for my english

proper cairn Feb 18, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

most likely for m+ or abusing adds to pump st

plucky mural Feb 18, 2018, 6:30 PM

#

@brave agate it depends on gear. sub rogues get a lot of value from the legendary shoulders. but still have some crit. if you have like 22% and no shoulders, simulations value crit.

brave agate Feb 18, 2018, 6:42 PM

#

cool. thank you guys. I haven't got the shoulders yet damn those rng gods 😉

plucky mural Feb 20, 2018, 7:39 PM

#

@knotty oriole can you help me understand this line

#

📎 unknown.png

#

is that talking about if specced into exang, or if exang is actually running on the rupture

#

the question came up whether you can Mut on 4cp for ds. and with my high crit rate I typ dont. just trying to clarify my rotation vs apl expectations.

lofty kiln Feb 20, 2018, 7:46 PM

#

talent.x.enabled is just that, "do I have that talent selected"

plucky mural Feb 20, 2018, 8:15 PM

#

so whats the diff between like E and line F?

#

prob an else mutilate if the finisher and maintain conditions arent met

torn dome Feb 20, 2018, 8:40 PM

#

its commented below

#

Literally:
Use muti instead of fok on 2t if you use exsa

vagrant quail Feb 20, 2018, 8:45 PM

#

anyone really good with simc ? i'm really curious... why crown sims so stronger for me... is my gear really that different from default profile ?

#

if someone could help i can pm my simc output

raven knoll Feb 20, 2018, 8:49 PM

#

Crown isn't bad at all, it usually comes down to the offpieces you have access to

#

Also it has the ideal stats

vagrant quail Feb 20, 2018, 8:50 PM

#

i know but its sim 20k more for me

#

i have a preatty good gear

tawny arch Feb 20, 2018, 8:51 PM

#

sims 7k more for me but i still use shoudlers/bracers

vagrant quail Feb 20, 2018, 8:51 PM

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/m1eHskEQfVxpoaLnoMBXrK

Raidbots

#

my sim

tawny arch Feb 20, 2018, 8:52 PM

#

now sim that helm/bracer combo with subter... itll go up even more

vagrant quail Feb 20, 2018, 8:52 PM

#

really wanted to know why it sims so much better than default profile

#

i simmed that too

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/vucQHbXsX5WdXAzwR2PMym

Raidbots

#

is my gear really that different from default profile ?

#

go justify crown being the king ?

tawny arch Feb 20, 2018, 8:55 PM

#

crown has ideal stats and a decent ability, but shoulder potential for crit PBS, opener etc etc is better imo

vagrant quail Feb 20, 2018, 8:56 PM

#

i feel like that too but it's sims 20k ahead...

tawny arch Feb 20, 2018, 8:58 PM

#

20k isn't that much really, and any fight with adds, shoulders going to be better

plucky mural Feb 20, 2018, 9:27 PM

#

@torn dome I saw the comment, but didnt see anythign about number of targets in the line

ashen crater Feb 20, 2018, 9:41 PM

#

The difference between the two lines is that E is before the FoK line and F is after. So it will never get to F in 2 targets because it will FoK.

plucky mural Feb 20, 2018, 9:58 PM

#

@ashen crater tbh, i thought that count line was a summary of average occurances within that sim.

boreal patrol Feb 20, 2018, 10:01 PM

#

it is

glacial raven Feb 20, 2018, 11:58 PM

#

Potentially scrub question: Is there a template somewhere to sim personal relic weights?

knotty oriole Feb 21, 2018, 12:13 AM

#

@plucky mural You have to consider the position in the action list there

#

Effectively that line has priority over the FoK lines

#

So that's the difference between that and the bottom Mutilate line

#

In ST, it makes no difference since the FoK lines are obviously skipped

strong rune Feb 21, 2018, 4:54 AM

#

@glacial raven as far as I know, no - pull requests and scripts welcome 😃

gaunt gale Feb 21, 2018, 5:13 AM

#

I think Mystler has something built into AutoSimC, if you're feeling python-savvy

boreal patrol Feb 21, 2018, 11:12 AM

#

my SimcScripts RelicSimulation ruby script can generate crucible weights, but it is probably simpler and still more accurate to just sim relics via Relic Compare (on Raidbots) as you get them

glacial raven Feb 21, 2018, 5:50 PM

#

I've been meaning to poke more at python, might give me an excuse :D

boreal patrol Feb 21, 2018, 6:24 PM

#

it's not python and not AutoSimC, it's ruby 😄

split sorrel Feb 21, 2018, 6:25 PM

#

😄

glacial raven Feb 21, 2018, 7:42 PM

#

Eeeeeew

regal agate Feb 21, 2018, 9:03 PM

#

ruby is quite nice

torpid urchin Feb 26, 2018, 3:53 PM

#

shoulders and boots gives better sustain dps ?

#

i sims for 2.35m dps with shoulders and bracers but with shoulders and boots i sims for 2.30m dps

silver merlin Feb 27, 2018, 5:13 PM

#

I am a bit confused with outlaw boots. I tried to sim it with scale for movement speed on and it gave me 0.17. Is taht... as it should be?

vale charm Feb 27, 2018, 6:13 PM

#

Anyone know offhand if Engine of Eradication shows proper use if the orbs on patchwork or if it randomizes it? I thought it showed a theoretical maximum.

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 6:17 PM

#

what do you mean scale for movements speed, stat weight? it's possible

#

engine of eradication assumes you collect 4 orbs in 4 seconds by default, iirc

silver merlin Feb 27, 2018, 6:27 PM

#

Ye, i meant stat weight

#

So... Boots doesnt really add much dps since simc displays so low stat weight?

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 6:32 PM

#

it's not the dps for boots, it's the scaling value for one additional point of speed

#

it basically says only that it is not very important to shoot for speed as a tertiary stat because the impact is not big, it does not really say anything about how much dps boots give you

#

if you want to know that then just sim with and without 😄

silver merlin Feb 27, 2018, 7:04 PM

#

Well that's what i wanted to know, should i chase +movement speed items or not

#

Thanks

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:25 PM

#

Does anyone know if Soul of the Shadowblade sims correctly? I suspect it doesn't

regal agate Feb 27, 2018, 10:26 PM

#

it does

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:27 PM

#

It doesn't say I have vigor anywhere that I can see

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 10:27 PM

#

simc does not display the talent as selected if that's what you mean

#

but it is enabled correctly

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:27 PM

#

Then I guess it's surprising how low it sims... haha

#

Hard for me to believe I sim much higher with that shitty belt legendary

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 10:28 PM

#

just make sure you select a different talent when simming ring

#

you get no benefit when you have the talent selected that it grants 😄

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:29 PM

#

Yea I did it right. Is deeper Stratagem worth that little?

#

Without Exsan

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 10:32 PM

#

what do you mean, or what exactly are you comparing?

covert wyvern Feb 27, 2018, 10:33 PM

#

the belt is underrated imo. not as good as optimal choices, but not far behind

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:34 PM

#

Well I don't have the bracers, I have the shoulders. So i'm simming out the other legos I have. Right now i'm comparing the reverse execute belt vs the vigor ring.

#

It's basically reverse execute vs deeper stratagem

covert wyvern Feb 27, 2018, 10:34 PM

#

your opener is going to be strong with the shoulders, so it's not surprising the belt is simming high

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:34 PM

#

ahhh

#

didin't think of that

#

I guess deeper stratagem is just not that good without the bleed build

#

If I have perfect crucible traits, is it possible that insignia sims higher than other legos?

#

than the best 2 legos that is

covert wyvern Feb 27, 2018, 10:50 PM

#

@brave tangle have you looked at herodamage?

#

i feel like that's your best bet for comparing various legendaries

#

other than simming yourself, of course

boreal patrol Feb 27, 2018, 10:52 PM

#

belt can sim very high, but you should always take it with caution, length of that 90% phase can very highly with each group and boss

brave tangle Feb 27, 2018, 10:59 PM

#

Yea I think it's inflated vs the practical output. Thanks

left mountain Feb 28, 2018, 12:07 PM

#

how to adjust fight length however I want and other then the default ones?

torn dome Feb 28, 2018, 12:08 PM

#

Locally or via raidbots?

tired latch Feb 28, 2018, 12:08 PM

#

Under simulation options you can adjust the fight length

left mountain Feb 28, 2018, 12:21 PM

#

doesn't matter if locally or raidbots
yeah I know I can adujst it there but I want different values then those which are presented there

#

eg. 30 secs

torn dome Feb 28, 2018, 12:28 PM

#

time=x

left mountain Feb 28, 2018, 12:30 PM

#

do I just post it into simulate tab?

torn dome Feb 28, 2018, 12:44 PM

#

You have to sim with a full profile on advanced to use time

left mountain Feb 28, 2018, 12:45 PM

#

got it

#

thanks

torn dome Feb 28, 2018, 12:48 PM

#

armory="eu,frostwhisper,Weak" crucible="1739:1778:327/1739:1774:327/1739:1784:325" name="Weak" #Simulation Configs iterations="25000" target_error="0" fight_style="Patchwerk" desired_targets="1" max_time="300" report_details="0" single_actor_batch="1" optimize_expressions="1" calculate_scale_factors="0" scale_only="strength,intellect,agility,crit,mastery,vers,haste"
Are the default rb settings

#

If you want exactly 300s kill time you can use
This example will make the combat length being exactly 300s on all iterations. max_time=300 vary_combat_length=0.0 fixed_time=1

plucky mural Feb 28, 2018, 10:19 PM

#

can someone clarify the benefit vs uptime of EP here?

#

📎 unknown.png

knotty oriole Feb 28, 2018, 10:25 PM

#

Benefit is broken for EP

#

It’s just a reporting issue

#

Due to it being a cached player modifier

plucky mural Feb 28, 2018, 10:27 PM

#

so the sim avg is artificially low, or ok?

knotty oriole Feb 28, 2018, 10:27 PM

#

Need to add some special benefit tracking for it.

#

The benefit column is the only thing wrong with it. Uptime is fine.

boreal patrol Feb 28, 2018, 10:35 PM

#

to explain the difference though: up time is ofc how much of the fight a buff was up, benefit depends on the implementation in simc and basically says how often any event/attack in the sim checked for the buff being up and took advantage of it

dawn ether Mar 3, 2018, 2:55 AM

#

/sim

#

-.-

calm vapor Mar 5, 2018, 1:11 AM

#

Mantle+head sims better than bracers+mantle on my character. Why? Lack of mastery?

calm venture Mar 5, 2018, 2:35 AM

#

Probably because the bracers your replacing the leggo ones with are better then the helm youd be replacing the helm leggo with

gaunt gale Mar 5, 2018, 3:04 AM

#

and you have a decent gloves tier 21 too, obviously 😃

granite escarp Mar 6, 2018, 10:56 PM

#

Question about Simcraft and Mantle of the Master Assassin (for Assassination):

Does Simcraft pool energy when Vanish is about to come off cooldown? (I believe that this is the correct way to play, in order to fit as many Envenoms as possible.)

torn dome Mar 6, 2018, 11:15 PM

#

No cause ven gives it the regen

finite thunder Mar 7, 2018, 1:35 AM

#

@granite escarp you will always use vendetta before vanish

#

so you will always have energy for it

granite escarp Mar 7, 2018, 1:38 AM

#

Are you saying that Simcraft delays Vanish until Vendetta is ready?

finite thunder Mar 7, 2018, 1:48 AM

#

yes, everyone does that

#

and you should @granite escarp

granite escarp Mar 7, 2018, 2:11 AM

#

That's interesting. I didn't realize that that was considered optimal play. Thanks.

And I'm a complete novice to the Simcraft codebase, but if I'm reading this correctly, that seems to be what it does:

    cds -> add_action( this, "Vanish", "if=talent.nightstalker.enabled&!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&combo_points>=cp_max_spend&mantle_duration=0&debuff.vendetta.up" );

finite thunder Mar 7, 2018, 2:13 AM

#

yup, that's basically:non-exsanguinate (I think they have other priorities for vanish), full combo point, mantle buff = 0 (maybe to not vanish on pull because you already have mantle buff up) and vendetta up 😄

terse jacinth Mar 7, 2018, 10:40 AM

#

!trinkets

steel zealotBOT Mar 7, 2018, 10:40 AM

#

List of trinkets for each spec: http://tc.ravenholdt.net/

grave prism Mar 7, 2018, 11:13 AM

#

Hello does raidbot takes into account dungeons set items bonus like ring of looping menance and chain of scorched bones for exemple? thx!

boreal patrol Mar 7, 2018, 12:07 PM

#

yes, dungeon sets should work fine

rain venture Mar 8, 2018, 12:09 AM

#

Heya folks, I'm working on a bit of a mythic plus guide for subtlety right now. I want to be able to show images of some trinket and set bonus sims on different fight lengths. Does anybody know the quickest way I could do this? I was going to use raidbots gear compare tool, but depending on the number of sims I show, that could be extremely tedious. Was wondering if there is a quicker method.

Thanks!

cloud thorn Mar 8, 2018, 11:04 PM

#

Hi i've downloaded simulationcraft again after using raidbots for a while. Can anyone help me out with adding multiple pantheon trinkets in my simulation. I have the following line with my raid comp for it, but im not sure if it's the correct one and where to place it in my profile.

legion.pantheon_trinket_users=no/no/ag/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/go:0.2/kh/kh/eo:0.2/eo:0.2/

boreal patrol Mar 8, 2018, 11:48 PM

#

iirc the placement does not matter really, i'd put it at the top

#

also, if you want to match your raid you'd ideally also replace 0.2 with the haste of your players

cloud thorn Mar 8, 2018, 11:55 PM

#

hmm ok ill try at the top see if it works, and yeah i should look at a log and get the actual haste

lost echo Mar 17, 2018, 7:19 PM

#

is there a way to sim for my netherlight crucible weights? and get a string

boreal patrol Mar 17, 2018, 8:41 PM

#

no simple one, it's likely easiest (and more accurate) to use raibots relic compare on-demand

lost echo Mar 18, 2018, 5:29 PM

#

Appreciate it

lusty fox Mar 22, 2018, 1:00 AM

#

Hey, I am trying to use raidbots to decide weather I should start farming CoF - I don't want to do it just via the "gear compare" tab, since I want to see how it will preform with 3 MA relics (and I can't change relics there). so what I would like to do is use the "relic compare" option, while "pretending" I have CoF equipped - but I don't know how to insert the item. I tried looking at the way simc addon is showing the trinkets, but got no clue how to find the "bonus ID". any help?

finite thunder Mar 22, 2018, 3:46 AM

#

@lusty fox#2766 http://www.wowhead.com/item=140806/convergence-of-fates&bonus=3514:1472

Wowhead

Convergence of Fates

This epic trinket of item level 875 goes in the "Trinket" slot. It is looted and sold by NPCs. In the Trinkets category. Added in World of Warcraft: Legion.

#

in the url

#

you can change the trinket ILVL and it will change the bonus loot

lusty fox Mar 22, 2018, 5:59 AM

#

thanks 😃

plucky mural Mar 22, 2018, 9:54 PM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

btw, I got 20/40 sec added to the Raidbot menu. I will be running a few M+ short pull sims myself.

#

(would be patchwork 5boss 20sec) but my settings were old

regal agate Mar 23, 2018, 11:13 AM

#

100k iterations maybe overkill?

plucky mural Mar 23, 2018, 11:15 AM

#

It cancels at 0.05% Was a feature they added a while back. @regal agate

regal agate Mar 23, 2018, 11:15 AM

#

ye i know ^^

plucky mural Mar 23, 2018, 11:15 AM

#

Last time I watched, it goes to like 39k

regal agate Mar 23, 2018, 11:16 AM

#

depends on spec

slate zealot Mar 25, 2018, 3:50 AM

#

📎 unknown.png

#

why does it garrote during mantle buff with nightstalker

plucky mural Mar 25, 2018, 5:00 AM

#

cause it fell off

ember moon Mar 26, 2018, 9:17 PM

#

P sure the apl does Tb into KB, as is displayed in the guide

boreal patrol Mar 26, 2018, 9:19 PM

#

always holding TB for last 9sec of KB is a loss

ember moon Mar 26, 2018, 9:21 PM

#

The loss is very minimal

#

Which means whilst it was a loss, their other areas compensated for that loss

boreal patrol Mar 26, 2018, 9:22 PM

#

yes, that is what i did, it is a loss mathematically

ember moon Mar 26, 2018, 9:22 PM

#

Allowing them to still get rank one

#

Just because the rank 1 did it doesn’t mean it’s a good play

boreal patrol Mar 26, 2018, 9:23 PM

#

if someone ranks 1 with that, it happens, logs are about more than just "optimal" ability order

knotty oriole Mar 27, 2018, 12:48 AM

#

Results-based TC is not always the best approach. There is a high amount of variance and the difference between the two approaches is minimal.

#

Because TB buffs the initial damage of KB it tends to come out ahead

split sorrel Mar 27, 2018, 1:03 AM

#

In this case, fight length is also a factor

golden warren Mar 27, 2018, 3:12 AM

#

just to be clear, @split sorrel , u r talking about be 1º on logs, not the order of tb !?

torn dome Mar 27, 2018, 11:32 AM

#

Same topic

knotty oriole Mar 27, 2018, 11:30 PM

#

This can be illustrated in SimC

#

📎 unknown.png

#

So this is a computer doing a perfect rotation based on perfect knowledge of events the same way

#

But RNG and the dynamic nature of the mechanics means that DPS can still wildly vary

#

Even with zero difference in "approach"

#

In this case, 5 iterations out of 7500 iterations reached near the max potential of this set of sims

#

So this is really why looking at results of parses in WCL can only potentially point us in the direction of investigating things, but aren't "proof" of a superior approach on their own

#

And since no real player executes 100% perfectly like a computer, nor can we control for fight length, cooldowns, boss mechanics, and gear--there is quite a bit more variance even in logs

#

(And, realistically, the vast majority of top parses for Assassination are carried by abnormally high amounts of Poison Bomb damage. Which there is nothing we can do about.)

strong rune Mar 28, 2018, 7:27 PM

#

Good ol' poison bomb.

plucky mural Mar 29, 2018, 8:44 PM

#

can someone confirm if the Sub cloak starts a fight with stacks, and if not is there an override to give me +30 on pull?

#

these values seem low

#

📎 unknown.png

#

that is an 8mob 20sec patchwork. and i was hoping to see millions there.

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/qzEtrpQCx3xvAaqc6XNceg/simc

Raidbots

boreal patrol Mar 29, 2018, 8:54 PM

#

sim starts with 30 stacks

plucky mural Mar 29, 2018, 8:56 PM

#

thanks.

haughty current Mar 30, 2018, 9:54 AM

#

Is there a tool that I can use to customize an artifact weapon to be useed in simulations? Cause I want to compare a hypothetical bleed spec with my current poison spec. With my gear.
I've tried using the wowhead calculator but the ilvls aren't correct and I'm not sure what to change in the string.

merry cloud Mar 30, 2018, 10:33 AM

#

Wowhead calculator only gives traits iirc

#

Maybe you can try to trick it via relic compare tool on raidbots and use simc input

haughty current Mar 30, 2018, 10:38 AM

#

Yea that's what I'm doing atm. Just a bit of a pain really.

plucky mural Mar 30, 2018, 11:33 AM

#

@haughty current can you clarify what you are trying to change, other than relics. Can dm if you want. Raidbots should do all the things you need.

haughty current Mar 30, 2018, 11:35 AM

#

I wanted to simulate the gear that I have in bleed spec with the correct relics and leggos

#

I obviously don't have the relics equipped. So ye, that was the hurdle I guess.

#

I figured it out now

plucky mural Mar 30, 2018, 11:36 AM

#

Once you have that output with the better relics (3v with Bb and rupture). You can take that html profile and pull the gear string out, then run it through the stat weights or gear compare.

haughty current Mar 30, 2018, 11:36 AM

#

I ended up adding a copy string:
copy="Anthology of Horrors 940 (Murderous Intent - Balanced Blades) / Fasces of the Endless Legions 975 (Shadowbind - Toxic Blades) / Mark of Varo'then 940 (Torment the Weak - Balanced Blades),Dialla"
main_hand=",id=128870,gem_id=142310/152293/136718,relic_id=0/0/0,relic_ilevel=940/975/940"
crucible="1739:1774:327/1739:1778:323/1739:1780:327"
feet=",id=137030,ilevel=1000"

boreal patrol Mar 30, 2018, 11:38 AM

#

assuming those are the legendary feet, beware you are not ending up with 3 legos

plucky mural Mar 30, 2018, 11:38 AM

#

Hope your crit is high enough in your poison gear to give a reasonable compare.

haughty current Mar 30, 2018, 11:59 AM

#

I've switched some gear out. It's to try and asses how much performance i

#

I'll inevitably lose on sims when I do make the switch

#

I've switched out some of the gear with crit + vers gear so it's somewhat applicable.

#

Enchants are not on point though, but it's reasonable. I simmed 2.20m

#

Where I sim like 2.28m in poison spec.

#

And that's with weapon relics way higher ilvl. So It's okay I feel.

#

8k crit

safe pasture Apr 3, 2018, 4:22 PM

#

versatility on assassination have a minimum cap?

merry cloud Apr 3, 2018, 4:32 PM

#

No

#

There are no caps

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 12:58 PM

#

hey, how do I add vantus rune to the raidbots sim?

merry cloud Apr 12, 2018, 12:59 PM

#

add 1500 vers enchant

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:00 PM

#

thanks 😃

#

but looking at enchanting tab at "top gear", there is no "general enchant" I can just add 1500 of. was also more interested in the stat weight values - could you please explain me how to add it to that simulation?

merry cloud Apr 12, 2018, 1:07 PM

#

you mean sim for stat weigths?

#

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/stats

Raidbots

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:19 PM

#

sorry if I am not clear - I know how to sim for stat weight, but I don't know how to add the vantus rune values to that simulation.

merry cloud Apr 12, 2018, 1:22 PM

#

oh you would have to use advanced for that I think

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:25 PM

#

is that something that only open to patrons? was considering paying a bit anyway. But still I wouldn't know how to add it : /

regal agate Apr 12, 2018, 1:27 PM

#

there are no features gated behind patreon

merry cloud Apr 12, 2018, 1:27 PM

#

nah it's not gated

#

probably the easiest way would be

use simc addon in game and get your gear
add 1500 vers enchant to some piece
add input settings in advanced that you can steal from "simc input" tab in stat weights part of raidbots

torn dome Apr 12, 2018, 1:29 PM

#

And the enchant itself is just
enchant=1500vers
Added at the bottom

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:38 PM

#

when I write that at the bottom of the simc addon input, it have no effect - when I try to write it at the end of a line (#) of an equipped item, I get an invalid input error. so still can't understand how to add this "enchant"...

torn dome Apr 12, 2018, 1:38 PM

#

just add that to under your weapon

#

like next line under the weapon

boreal patrol Apr 12, 2018, 1:39 PM

#

you have to add it to any piece of gear, e.g. head=[...],enchant=1500vers

torn dome Apr 12, 2018, 1:40 PM

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You can also just add a simple enchant like that 🤔

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At the end

boreal patrol Apr 12, 2018, 1:41 PM

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what, i'm not aware that enchant works as a standalone option

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:41 PM

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either of those gives me invalid error

torn dome Apr 12, 2018, 1:41 PM

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it at least did

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:42 PM

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doesn't work directly onto a piece either

boreal patrol Apr 12, 2018, 1:42 PM

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can't get it to work standalone, but on a piece of gear it works for me

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just ran a template on raidbots and added ,enchant=1500vers to the head slot, seems to run smoothly

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stat weight sim

lusty fox Apr 12, 2018, 1:45 PM

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ye, managed to do it now - not sure how to write it in english, I left a small space after the "," and it caused the problem. so thanks 😃

boreal patrol Apr 12, 2018, 1:45 PM

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ahh, yeah

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simc is sensitive to whitespaces

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 3:46 AM

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just wonder, but what's the reasoning behind the APL not choosing to use toxic blade based on kingsbane usage?

novel lava Apr 13, 2018, 3:47 AM

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because this usage does more damage

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 3:48 AM

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so should i not be holding it for kingsbane? like <5 secs and the last 8 secs of kingsbane?

novel lava Apr 13, 2018, 3:49 AM

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you should not be holding for kingsbane

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 3:50 AM

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so when the guide says to not hold it more than 5 secs, it actually means dont hold it at all

novel lava Apr 13, 2018, 3:51 AM

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you can hold for a couple seconds

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but there's no reason to in general

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 3:52 AM

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well like if kb and tb are both up, apl would have me hitting tb and then kb vs saving it a couple seconds for more damage later in the kb

novel lava Apr 13, 2018, 3:52 AM

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because this usage does more damage

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the longer you hold tb, the greater the chance you miss a use during a fight

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this is not the right channel for this discussion

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 3:53 AM

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alright, yeah. originally just came here because it had to do with the APL

plucky mural Apr 13, 2018, 3:56 AM

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@bronze kraken the guide is written a bit funny. If tb and kb are up at the same time, use tb then kb. if kb is ready and gets used, and then tb is ready. you hold up to 5 sec max to overlap the tail.

knotty oriole Apr 13, 2018, 5:33 AM

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@bronze kraken The APL currently holds TB for up to 10s if Vendetta is coming off CD, but not KB due to alignment issues.

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If you hold TB in other scenarios it can cause you to miss future cooldown alignments which is generally why it's avoided

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Keep in mind that TB buffs the (rather substantial) initial damage of KB, not just the DoT

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You use it before KB because the initial damage is far higher than 1s worth of ticks later on

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(For example, my last tick before TB fell off on my last Garothi log during my opener was a 1.8m crit, but the KB initial damage was a 2.4m crit + 1.2m crit.)

bronze kraken Apr 13, 2018, 5:40 AM

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@knotty oriole Gotcha. Yeah that makes sense.

umbral crag Apr 15, 2018, 2:08 PM

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Shouldn't the Poison Knife trait be listed in the single target relic simulation on herodamage? It is a DPS increase in single target situations according to raidbots (the APL uses FoK at 3 CP with at least 5 Poison Knife traits: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/wWaQgUoNHp8MMs133uXf8B )

Raidbots

abstract creek Apr 15, 2018, 3:34 PM

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Does the APL uses FoK at 3 CP at all times or only outside of KB?

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If PK Traits >=5

boreal patrol Apr 15, 2018, 4:00 PM

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all times iirc. the reason we took PK out of the single target chart on HD is to avoid misleading ppl, you happen to enter that kind of rotation if you have more traits, but since it's an AoE centered trait we decided against showing that as a (only under certain conditions) DPS increase ST trait

umbral crag Apr 15, 2018, 5:25 PM

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thanks for the clarification, it seems in specific gear sets 4 PK traits is enough for the FoK rotation to be better

plucky mural Apr 15, 2018, 5:27 PM

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@umbral crag its probably a function of mut crit. Last time I checked I found Fok a loss (for me) with 4pk.

knotty oriole Apr 15, 2018, 9:39 PM

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It is enough for the FoK rotation to be better WITH those relics

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However, it's not better than other relic choices

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So it's kinda a bad path to lead people down, IMO

fringe mist Apr 22, 2018, 4:07 PM

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hey there, i was wondering if someone could check my sim, cause for a 961i assa with BiS everywhere, it seems a bit low: https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/j76NXmwZbMAY7svZ8Yz9TE

Raidbots

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my relics aren't too bad but it's certainly something i could get upgrades of

naive nimbus Apr 22, 2018, 4:46 PM

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Reposted in #assassination

abstract creek Apr 24, 2018, 12:17 PM

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I need help understanding the Sin APL

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fan_of_knives,if=combo_points>=3+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&artifact.poison_knives.rank>=5|fok_rotation

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Does that mean the APL only FoK's if you play DS?

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If so - why do i still have FoK dmg in my Damage Sources even tho im specced Vigor?

merry cloud Apr 24, 2018, 12:24 PM

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No, it doesnt

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Any false/true statements are implicitly converted to 0/1 if needed

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If that thingy after 3+ is true then it's just converted to 3+1

abstract creek Apr 24, 2018, 12:28 PM

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I'm not sure if i understand it now but it doesn't matter if i do - i got my answer so thanks alot! 😃

willow pecan Apr 24, 2018, 12:29 PM

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if 3 CP and PK rank 5 -> use fok rotation
but if you have DS, add 1, so:
if 4CP and PK rank 5 -> use fok rotation

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couldn't it use 2CP deficit though?

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sorry i was wrong there

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it's OR FoK rotation (that's a flag you can enable)

torn dome Apr 24, 2018, 12:32 PM

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2 deficit doesnt work with anti so no

molten geode May 3, 2018, 1:08 AM

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hi i have a question about simc

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im a outlaw rogue and i use simc and raidbots for simming my stats weights and compare gear

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but idk if im using the right fight style

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because simming my stats weights with Leave movement, heavy movement or HecticAddCleave give me different stats weights and same with gear

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shouls i use patchwerk no mather the fight in real game?

regal agate May 3, 2018, 7:24 AM

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You could theoretically model every fight in simc, this would give you a stat wight and gear set for every fight.
Different options just emulate different fights. e.g. Hectic add cleave spawns add frequently.
You can use Patchwork to simulate Raids, however if you want a result for a specific fight that is not modelt in simc you would need to write a custom boss script.

molten geode May 3, 2018, 3:43 PM

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Thanks, that help me a Lot 😄

merry cloud May 4, 2018, 5:20 PM

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Since we now got ~~Dispatch~~ Blindside back as talent I decided to see how good is it to use only Blindside within execute range
So we compare two ways to play - using Mutilate and Blindside when it procs and pure Blindside usage

Mutilate + Blindside procs

Some damage :)
Combo Points gain: 2 + 2 * 0.75 * crit_chance + 0.3 * ( 1 + crit_chance ) = 2.3 + 1.8 * crit_chance ( we assume 25% CP loss on Mutilate Seal Fate procs and no loss from Blindside, taken from simc reports )
Poison rolls: 2 + 0.3 = 2.3```

Blindside only
```Cost: 30 energy
Some more damage :)
Combo Points gain: 1 + crit_chance
Poison rolls: 1```

To avoid decimals we can just compare value for 150 energy spent on Mutialte + Blilndside procs vs Blindside
```Combo Points gain: 6.9 + 5.4 * crit_chance vs 5 + 5 * crit_chance

Poison rolls: 6.9 vs 5```

The problem here is that both Combo Points based attacks( finishers ) and Poison rolls scale with Mastery while the only advantage Blindside has over Mutilate + Blindside procs strategy - Physical damage - doesn't. So gap between those strategies will get only bigger and bigger the more stats we gain throughout expansion

I made some preliminary sims that are based on raid testing stats and they show that currently it's just better to keep Mutilating in execute range 
https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/inCwZMzZ9mJeHavn9YX9uk
APL is very simple but it gets the job done. Stealth row talents are not picked because I didn't implement vanish and APL and they shouldn't make a difference. 90 lvl row is not picked because I wanted to show difference without Venom Rush picked, with it difference would be even bigger

Raidbots

coarse scaffold May 7, 2018, 6:11 PM

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anybody knows if it's possible to do a gear compare in raidbots for a piece of gear I haven't looted yet (e.g., convergence of fates trinket)

merry cloud May 7, 2018, 6:13 PM

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type the name of a piece and pick it

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what is the problem?

coarse scaffold May 7, 2018, 6:13 PM

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where do I type that in?

#tc-research

Gear Summary

gear_ilvl=956.31

gear_agility=33941

gear_stamina=52397

gear_crit_rating=13061

gear_haste_rating=1415

gear_mastery_rating=9623

gear_versatility_rating=4644

gear_speed_rating=640

gear_armor=2817

set_bonus=tier20_2pc=1

set_bonus=tier21_2pc=1

set_bonus=tier21_4pc=1