What's the difference between dot.deathmark.ticking and debuff.deathmark.up?
I noticed these two are treated separately in the simc code.
#tc-research
sudden warren
noble pendant
there is no functional difference for APL
sudden warren
ic
solar apex
How to add damaging trinkets use only if 3 fazed applied?
proven sparrow
Generally class buffs like Fazed do not affect things that are not from the class, so trinkets wouldnt do any more damage when you have 3 stacks of fazed than if you had 1 or 0
(and if they do affect non-class stuff its unintentional and a bug)
solar apex
Good to know, thank you
sudden warren
actions.cds+=/roll_the_bones,if=!buff.roll_the_bones.up|rtb_buffs=1+(buff.loaded_dice.up&cooldown.between_the_eyes.ready)```
This must be a typo, right? It should be kir @finite sparrow
finite sparrow
```# Use Roll the Bones if not active, or reroll for stage 2. Roll over stage 2 ...
yes it is, though interestingly enough, it does not affect sim results to change it
it is fine to just straight up roll over 2 with ld
sudden warren
indeed, rolling over 2 with ld feels like an intuitive thing.
gaunt sandal
where do i paste this sorry tried before but nothing happened
regal agate
you copy&paste it below your /simc in top gear
so you:
- go in game - press
/simcin chat to open simulationcraft and copy the text. - parse it in the box on top gear to load your character.
- Open the text file and copy the content.
- paste it below the /simc text in top gear
If you did everything correct, you should now see the gear added to your selection
regal agate
no
you put your /simc in this box.
And add the content of the text file below it (in the same box)
e.g. this is how it looks when i only use the gear profile from my spreadsheet
once you pasted the content of the file below, it adds this seasons items to the list and lets you pick the ones you want to compare
gaunt sandal
thx it works
trail moon
for m+ what scenario are we using to compare sub/assa/outlaw -- dungeon slice or patchwerk x5
noble pendant
dungeonslice for all three
sudden warren
yes it is, though interestingly enough, it does not affect sim results to change...
ok wait i thought about it again, isn't this condition wrong?
rtb_buffs=1+(buff.loaded_dice.up&cooldown.keep_it_rolling.ready)
the second one should be rtb_buff<=1+(...) right?
the way it's written now, it won't roll off one of a kind when you have ld and kir
finite sparrow
ok wait i thought about it again, isn't this condition wrong?
```rtb_buffs=1+(bu...
You're right, but a standard sim will have negligible stage 1 uptime anyway
karmic hamlet
fixed a bug with droute for ready_trigger specs like rogues, so if you were getting random 'forcefully cancelled' errors it should be fixed
regal agate
thanks 👍
severe trellis
Is there anyone who has the SIM card with all the LQE ?
noble pendant
I’m unfamiliar with what LQE means
half karma
dark sonnet
"Lié quand équipé"
sudden warren
actions.cds+=/shadow_dance,if=!variable.stealth&variable.shd_cp&energy>=30&((cooldown.secret_technique.ready|buff.darkest_night.up)&(cooldown.shadow_blades.remains>=30-cooldown.secret_technique.duration)|(buff.shadow_blades.up&cooldown.secret_technique.duration>=18))|(fight_remains<=10|target.time_to_die-remains<=9)
cooldown.secret_technique.duration>=18
isnt this always true?
finite sparrow
Yes it is, but funny enough, it is doesn't change sim results to fix it
It is perfectly fine to roll over stage 2 with LD and BtE ready
tawdry void
so just roll over stage 2 with LD would be fine then for simplicity? doesnt seem like it changes anything rly
finite sparrow
no, stage 2 with just LD does seem a bit worse
tawdry void
okl
finite sparrow
I suspect bte being ready at the time of rolling just has some impact on fitting the most BtE casts into the potential stage 3/4
tawdry void
ya makes sense
magic mason
quick question. when i sim, it uses mutilate instead of fan in dungeon slice for assass. is that just how the sim is?
regal agate
The sim follows a set of priorities which controls the robots logic, it's called the apl (action priority list).
It likely uses Mutilate, because its better or due to the amount of enemies up during the specific point in time.
You can open the simulation report after running a quick sim and watch at the sample sequence to inspect.
If you are unsure about the rotation, it's best to read a guide or ask in the #assassination chat.
If you found clear evidence of a wrong sequence, you can post it here with more information (simulation, screenshots, etc.)
nova crag
Also to clarify: Dungeon slice is a combination of different kinds of fights, including a single target portion during which it should mutilate
vale hull
Is there a place where I can find good dungeon sim strings?
noble pendant
Is there a place where I can find good dungeon sim strings?
we generally recommend dungeonslice over dungeonroute sims. You can export the routes your group is using if you want to use dungeonroute anyway, I suggest this guide from shadarek if you don't know how that works
proven dawn
This channel is for discussion related to SimC development or use. Note however that questions that can be answered by "Sim it" or similar, or questions that ask people to provide simulation results will be deleted.
proven dawn
Check out the how to sim yourself document in #rules-and-guides
heady stone
i got it ty sorry
spiral bluff
Hey! I have a question regarding the new simulationcraft results for 7.1.5 that Aethys posted a few days ago (ty for your work, it's much appreciated!). The sheet where the specs were compared a few days ago. Why are the gear used still preraid and EN stuff? I'm interested to see how stuff changes when we get higher itemlevel, setbonuses from Nighthold etc. Is it just because stuff changes so much on PTR that it's no point using the new gear yet? Sorry if this has been asked before
feral crystal
Pretty much, everything is still in flux and using already known gear eliminates one or more of those variables
spiral bluff
Makes sense, I just wanted a confirmation. Thanks!
feral crystal
no worries mate 😃
nimble citrus
!stjern
winged jettyBOT
Stjerns Rogue Guide: https://goo.gl/gRz6gf
split sorrel
@spiral bluff mostly because it's fully automated and I didn't changed it because I'm building another tool way more flexible and cool to see results
spiral bluff
@split sorrel Nice, I look forward to seeing it:)
torpid coyote
Does the latest nightly (2017-01-06 07:05), include the tier changes? Or wait for the next one
split sorrel
2:36 and 7:06 have it
for rogue, it doesn't matter (was pal, mage & ww changes on the 2nd one)
earnest nimbus
Can't find it anywhere, but what does the Poison Knives trait do for AP? The wording is pretty weird. Guess it only increases its dmg when you FoK? Not too sure... http://www.wowhead.com/spell=192376/poison-knives
Can't find anything in the guide either
maiden cargo
Agonizing PoisonIncreases the effect of Agonizing Poison's damage bonus by (4 )%
all the time
its a better version of master alchemist
earnest nimbus
Yeah, just looks like it's too much to be true. Can anyone who has the trait confirm this?
woulnd't the trait be BiS for AP then?
earnest nimbus
so that amounts to what.. 0.2 ish %?
feral crystal
@split sorrel just curious but would that other tool perhaps be a collaboration with fiery on shadowcraft? :)
split sorrel
not related to shadowcraft, it's related to simcminmax projects and simulationcraft itself.
feral crystal
Would you ever be open to assisting with shadowcraft?
green wolf
@feral crystal Assisting how?
feral crystal
Mainly helping finishing the models and incorporating your collective knowledge into it. As much as I love simc and the ability to tweak apl's and rotations and the production of the 4d models, it's difficult to use for the everyday upgrade selection decisions. I can only imagine if the projects collaborated and you had the outputs of one becoming the inputs for another
Not sure if my message got through or god forbid I spammed :/
split sorrel
I always answer question and it happens that Fiery (or someone else) do ask something
Like "why you did this in the APL ?"
also they're able to read code from simc module and do read the AMR wiki aswell (where every formulas are) so I don't think it's an issue
maiden cargo
@split sorrel would you mind posting the profiles used for excel spec testing? specifically the Single Target w/ Adds (4, 3x, 30, 10)
regal agate
frozen the simulations are linked in the spreadsheed you just need to open them and get the profile from there
maiden cargo
ah i didnt see
split sorrel
and you can also check source code on simcminmax project
dry sluice
Guys, im getting this stats priority on simcraft "Agi > Haste > Mastery > Vers > Crit". Its basicaly the inverse order i'm getting suggested in icyveins or in this discord guide for instance. Which should i trust? XD
Outlaw btw
proven dawn
The stat weights you get from simming yourself are generally more accurate than static stat weights
grizzled remnant
Why is simcraft returning me these weights for sub? That can't be right
Ranking Agi > AP > Vers ~= Mastery > Haste ~= Crit
proven dawn
Why cant it be right?
grizzled remnant
isn't vers basically trash? There's no reason it'd be higher than mastery
proven dawn
What are you basing you assessment that vers is trash on? This is the exact reason why we build tools like SimC, figuring out what stats are good is really hard
crisp token
vers was never trash for sub
grizzled remnant
I mean, I guess, I was just surprised because mastery seemed much higher everywhere I looked, I was wondering if I messed up somewhere
crisp token
I guess it's just like the general opinion of vers, it isn't bad at all for a lot of specs
regal agate
question: is this channel supposed to help with simulations or to discuss theories and evaluate apl changes/etc and to report bugs?
proven dawn
Its a very outdated view of vers, its been quite good for many specs this expansion for complicated reasons, also yes what fuu said
in general asking if your sim results are right without presenting any reason to be skeptical of them will be deleted
grizzled remnant
aight sorry and thanks for the answer
strong gorge
Versatility scales very well with shorter fight length for bursty specs. F.ex during HFC speed kills, vers was almost always top stat with those kill times.
torpid coyote
Has anyone run any talent comparisons today? Contrary to popular belief in some channels on here, I'm finding last nights changes actually favour deeper strategem over anticipation. In the previous build (with some APL changes to make better use of anticipation) I was getting anticipation/premed to be the best talent combination. Now its deeper strategem/alacrity interestingly. This is using the default tier19M_NH gear set, can anyone corroborate?
regal agate
what spec do you talk about?
torpid coyote
Sub
regal agate
ah i did this evaluation earlyer
but both anticipation and DS optimization was based on t19 4p i need to evaluate the theses again and probably dismiss some
if you have some thesis/ideas/etc on it feel free to say them. i can try implement them into the apl then (to evaluate those)
btw. did run the simulation with vanilla apl after the changes and DS wins over Anticipation now without any modifications to the apl
torpid coyote
I can post up the changes sure, but since the nerf to the 4pc there isn't much a of a gain - I'm just rerunning everything now to compare. The premise was instead of dancing on 0-1 CP and finishing whenever possible, to dance whenever you can strike twice, and strike over finish if you have a large enough deficit. I was finding that with the default APL, and when shadow strike generated 4CP with blades, it would often strike 3 times and finish twice instead the dance window. Anyway like I said, yesterday I found quite a gain with those changes, putting anticipation ahead, but since the nerf back to 30% this is no longer the case 😦
What suprised me though was alacrity being ahead of premed in almost all permutations
final arrow
!relic
winged jettyBOT
split sorrel
with bracers it'll likely be ant
foggy tendon
how much of a difference is WM over MoS? I havent used WM at all yet
regal agate
its minimal
grand elbow
foggy tendon
I personally prefer MoS (did small personal test) so if its minimal i'll most likely run MoS
regal agate
changed ~> to ~= to make it more clear:
WM ~= MoS
DS/PREM. ~= DS/ALACR. > ANTIC./PREM >ANTIC./ALACR.
foggy tendon
Well, I could definitely see WM for M+, the burst is way nicer, and would most likely help get the boss dead faster
regal agate
WM wins in M+ becouse it procs of FoK (every hit)
foggy tendon
yea
MoS for longer fights (i.e raids)
Does MoS affect SD? Or is the SD effect built into it?
nevermind, it doesnt, answered my own question.
maiden cargo
I personally prefer taking Wm on any sort of aoe or cleave fight, Mos on pure st
foggy tendon
Yea definitely, WM is perfect for M+ or trash
iron elk
anyone as tried to write APL to cast envenom in the last 0.1 of EP or surge of tox?
trying to write buff.elaborate_planning.remains<0.1 or the equivalent for surge was a subtantial DPS loss for me.
so checking the envenom's data i saw less cast, like 38 instead of 41 and the opening a lot less damaging.
so i changed the APL with time>10 and a conditional for not waiting under vendetta.
but even this the dps is behind to a simple 4+ envenom (about 0.5-1k dps)
the uptime is better, the number of envenom's cast are basically the same (40.7 instead of 41.1), the mean of envenom damage is higher.
maybe someone had an idea to optimize this mechanics? actually my APL is
actions.finish+=/envenom,if=(talent.master_poisoner.enabled&combo_points>=4+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled&(!debuff.surge_of_toxins.up|(debuff.surge_of_toxins.up&time<=10)|(debuff.surge_of_toxins.up&time>10&(debuff.surge_of_toxins.remains<=0.1|debuff.vendetta.up))))|(!talent.master_poisoner.enabled&combo_points>=4&(!talent.elaborate_planning.enabled|(talent.elaborate_planning.enabled&(!buff.elaborate_planning.up|time<=10|(time>10&(buff.elaborate_planning.remains<0.1|debuff.vendetta.up))))))
regal agate
have to correct my sim results. my old values where with bracers, did forget about that
late willow
Is the nightblooming frond implemented correctly in the recent builds. It doesnt look like the auto attack damage is increasing
regal agate
@split sorrel you are right. anticipation seem to be better with bracers
regal agate
i will rerun everything bc. my conclusion was wrong earlyer(compared 4p+fates+bracers with 4p+fates)
the tier 4p nerfe seem to be a ~4 - 5% loss
foggy tendon
So basically we need bracers as well as set to be competative?
foggy tendon
Yea, I don't think one spec will be immensely better than another one
torpid coyote
Re-ran everything @regal agate, standard t19m_nh template and these were the results
regal agate
thats nice 😃
torpid coyote
So I get ~8-9% overall nerf, and as found earlier, a change in best talent combinations from anticipation/premed to deeper/alacrity (with both wrists & boots)
This is with cof aswel, its in the nh template
regal agate
mantle may become bis with bracers, just so you know
torpid coyote
Yeah I will re-run it all tomorrow with mantle included, and do the same thing for assassination.
I saw in another channel someone mention sprinting to activate vanish, also activates the mantle. Has anyone worked that into the APL to see if its worth 3 seconds of not attacking? Obviously in real life its easier to do with movement / target swapping
regal agate
its worth but not included
maiden cargo
sprinting for vanish is currently not in apl
http://i.imgur.com/oiKfDjV.png my sims of 2 legendaries with t19m profile
bracers with trinket and 4pc will pull ahead
regal agate
without tier set ^^
regal agate
hmm so we have sprint every minute + vanish every 2 minutes
mint pawn
Let all raid leaders know if you mess up sprint it's a wipe
regal agate
hmm i got lower value of DS/alacrity in my sims
nvm found the mistake ^^
sprint should not become a rotational cooldown thats probably why its not in the apl
torpid coyote
Ok have to defer to some simC wizards here... need the commands for stopping auto attack, activating sprint, and then just waiting for stealth to activate
regal agate
torpid coyote
Thanks, will have a play in the morning and rerun all combinations including the mantle, and for assassination. Just had a quick look default profiles for assassination vs sub; seems to be ~5% ahead. Will see if it holds true through legendaries
regal agate
thanks for that. and good luck tomorrow 😃
vapid ridge
Two questions: (Let me know if this should go in General or Simple)
- How do you guys make the comparison sims for items? Like if I have my item ID's how can I sim all of the combos at once to get those charts? (I want to test out legendary combos with my current gear.)
- Is there a section of simc or maybe future development plans so that the novice user can create an APL? I've read through the APL code and back in WoD I even modded it a bit for myself to test a couple of things, but I get confused with all the coding teminology with the ! for NOT and all of that stuff. It's just very tedious to modify the APLs.
Love the program and appreciate all the work that goes into it.
split sorrel
you cannot stop rogue aa
torpid coyote
Any ideas on how to force a vanish/sprint in the apl? Is that trait implemented in simc?
strong rune
you're asking if it's possible to trigger sprint, stop autoattacks, and wait three seconds?
i don't believe that's implemented as such
if you wanted to add it, you could put some conditional logic in the ability here:
that's the place to add vanish functionality, conditioned on having that trait
(this is probably something for me or aethys to do)
torpid coyote
Or just force the SIM to put sprint on CD, gain stealth, and fast forward / pause for 3 seconds
strong rune
one way to implement this is to put a fake "sprint_for_offense" spell or something in place
that uses sprint but also shuts off autoattacks
we'd have to build this out, it's not there now
torpid coyote
If that's something either of you could look at, could be interesting. Not just for gaining the mantle buff, but also periods of downtime when you've depleted all charges, and are just backstabbing / waiting for ST, it may be beneficial to sprint/vanish.
strong rune
absolutely true
i'd wager it's a dps gain
no free lunch, you are giving up some autoattacks, but it's almost certainly a dps gain
split sorrel
also I need to see how mantle works with subterfuge
atm it's assuming true stealth
but that may be different
dunno and can't work on simc at all for some days
if you want to implement the aa stop, go ahead
you could just add an action to force the stop_attack
start_attack exists already
but I know navv told me in the past rogue uses different things
didn't checked since a long time
ember citrus
What's better for my outlaw with thraxis trades/hit and run? 860 Arcanocrystal or 860 rabbit foot with haste? using bloodthirsty at 850 and the rabbit foot as the game swapped out the crystal
night tinsel
@split sorrel no interaction with subterfuge, just gives 6 seconds still
night tinsel
yeah, which is different to how it worked before earlier in the cycle iirc, I think you kept the aura and it didn't tick until subterfuge ended previously
now it just ticks after breaking stealth
You do keep the aura with vanish though, doesn't tick till vanish ends
actually thats not quite how it works, you only keep the vanish buff if you have subterfuge >.<
torn dome
To my findings with subterfuge vanish gives you the mantle buff for 8.2 seconds
night tinsel
I still think its a bug that the vanish buff doesnt' fall off when you have subterfuge active, but its been like that for a long time
I got just over 9 seconds of the buff with vanish, but its oft times variable because it seems like subterfuge doesn't always instantly proc with vanish, similar to why you get 4 gcds with a vanish on live
torn dome
Interesting
gleaming nimbus
Because you are using the default weights. You gotta sim yourself and import the new scales.
arctic pier
do sims auto apply flask/food/pots?
arctic pier
any idea how i can fix this?
ember citrus
That's not default. i simmed myself prior and pasted it into Pawn
indigo radish
it only shows as an upgrade vs the default weights not for Futen (the one you imported)
untick "show this scale in tooltips" on the default ones
indigo radish
greenskin 715 nerf isnt in 7.1.5 simcraft yet right? buff tooltip shows 200% but the PS/BB averages are close to my 7.1 sims
inland plaza
How do I extract the stat weights from sim craft to use in pawn
heavy aspen
what do people think of using alacrity in dungeons if it sims 30k higher than exsang for me? MP/alacrity vs EP/exsang
and is alacrity siming higher than exsang for everyone else?
night tinsel
@arctic pier Did you try reinstall
otherwise check this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/33265663/api-ms-win-crt-runtime-l1-1-0-dll-is-missing-when-opening-microsoft-office-file
regal agate
@night tinsel about the aa-stop discussion earlyer. can you just trigger a movement raid event for this ?
pliant pagoda
If I read this string right:
actions+=/variable,name=ss_useable_noreroll,value=(combo_points<5+talent.deeper_stratagem.enabled-(buff.broadsides.up|buff.jolly_roger.up)-(talent.alacrity.enabled&buff.alacrity.stack<=4))
The SimC recommended rotation is run through at 4 combo points if you have deeper strat and broadsides or jolly roger, and at least 4 stacks of alacrity. Did I read that right?
<5+1-1-1 for <4, so finisher at >=4
night tinsel
Almost, but (talent.alacrity.enabled&buff.alacrity.stack<=4) is 1 when your stacks are 4 or less. So, run through at 4 cp if you have 4 or less alacrity stacks and broadsides or jolly roger.
@regal agate Probably, but I can't say for certain. I do recall reading navv saying once that it was already possible to implement auto attack stops for rogues, but its not something written in any of the wikis that I've read.
I'm not familiar enough with the code to go find where that sort of action might be on github either
wanton shell
ok boyz is vendetta interraction with convergence and boots and relics considered theorycrafting? cause i would like to run something through you
guess not 😛
odd sedge
did anyone sim farming for blood of assassinated procs? now that rup is a flat damage always regardless of CPs
id imagine farming for it could be a thing
throw one or 2 cps into a rup until you get it
warm pine
.
river scaffold
Hi guys, I'm trying to find the gem_id and relic_id for an 880 unflinching grit iron relic - could anyone help out?
random gull
relic_id=140435 gem_id=3478
river scaffold
thanks 😃
halcyon vortex
!sims
dry pine
is there a way to make something like actions+=/apply_poison,name=deadly_poison,if=target.health.pct<30 work?
to apply deadly poison if the boss drops below 30% health
dry pine
i had that idea when i got zoldycks, but i have never been able to sim it (and never cared to), because i thought somebody would have already done it, but what if that isn't the case?
upbeat shuttle
Just saying, I have no Idea how to test it, but it could work?
would be good if somone could sim it
regal agate
didnt test the line
but you need to check if the poison is applyed probably to not loop into applying poisons
dry pine
i think the error is in the name=
apply_poison apparently expects a name, but deadly_poison is not the expected name
or the , is the wrong operator
nevermind i need the mainhand and offhand operators
and main_hand is no longer an operator
i have arrived at actions+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,if=target.health.pct<30&buff.agonizing_poison.up (since main_hand=deadly is not the correct operator), but somehow the sim now spends 100% of the time just waiting
that should apply DP once if the boss is below 30%, and replace agonizing poison as my buff?
but to be honest, i have no clue what i'm doing
odd sedge
anyone can give me any pointers how to sim dropping 1/2 cps into ruptures until i get blood of the assassinated, then following normal rotation
regal agate
you can change how the apl uses finisher/maintainance
odd sedge
no idea how thats what i´m asking 😛 i dont know the syntax for it
something like "if BOTA not up, then use low cp into rupture"
torn dome
It is so energy ineficcient I cant see it being better
odd sedge
losing one or 2 cps would be that bad? the tradeoff would be much higher bota uptime
torn dome
Your rupture dps goes up yes but your dpE plummets
If rupture was our only finisher like ferals only spam rip then yes
odd sedge
thats why I would like to sim it, ill look into the APL syntax
iron elk
@wanton shell what you mean?
vendetta CD reduction is a bonus that you want stack, more is stacked, more is its value
odd sedge
I have no idea how to go past rupture,if=combo_points<=2, how do I put missing blood of the assassinated to this line
something like if=blood_of_the_assassinated=refreshable?
rupture,if=combo_points<=2(!blood_of_the_assassinated.refreshable)?
need some help here 😄
merry cloud
try debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
merry cloud
!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
odd sedge
rupture,if=combo_points<=2(!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up) ?
odd sedge
I dont know what that even means
oh let me see, I want to make a line that makes it cast low CP ruptures until it gets BOTA up
then continues with normal rotation
merry cloud
rupture,if=combo_points<=2&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
try thtat line
no
rupture,if=(combo_points<=2)&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
odd sedge
now where do i put that
merry cloud
somewhere in APL
odd sedge
in results-text?
merry cloud
what?
odd sedge
I dont know where to put that, in simcraft, im really new
in logs? Logs tab up there
i can se the APL there
merry cloud
in simulate tab
odd sedge
oh.
odd sedge
nope i just have my char import from game
odd sedge
from where?
merry cloud
from sample profiles
rich sage
Import with "import" tab and it generates apl
odd sedge
i think i see the APL under logs
odd sedge
that works now? with relics etc
merry cloud
yes
odd sedge
ok got apl now, where do I add the line
merry cloud
it works for a long time )
depends on what you want
if I got the idea right
find line actions.maintain=rupture,if=(talent.nightstalker.enabled&stealthed.rogue)|(talent.exsanguinate.enabled&((combo_points>=cp_max_spend&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<1)|(!ticking&(time>10|combo_points>=2+artifact.urge_to_kill.enabled))))
odd sedge
my idea to sim was to see if fishing for BOTA procs would be good
ok i see that line now what
odd sedge
would adding another work?= above it
merry cloud
you have to deep dive into it
odd sedge
actions.maintain=rupture,if=(combo_points<=2)&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
merry cloud
that line just might refresh your rupture after you got BotA
if you add line you have to change next one slightly
from actions.maintain= to actions.maintain+=/
regal agate
you should probably refresh with cp >=2 and not <=
merry cloud
they specifically want to cast only low CP ruptures to fish for BotA
odd sedge
it didnt impact the sim this line
bota uptime same
anyway gotta leave for a bit, thanks for assistance will continue later
upbeat shuttle
@dry pine can you msg me if you figure out that DP is better after 30%? Might be worth speccing master poisoner aswell?
dry pine
yeah when i figure it out
polar mortar
just saw the latest aethys sim results, is that mantle of the master assassin really a thing?
i don t understand why it is 10% increase as sub when it does not work under shadow dance
it s supposed to be the best 7.1.5 legendary?
round canyon
!aethys
winged jettyBOT
Aethys Updated Sim Results: https://goo.gl/VSjNfw?
crystal frost
think of it like this: lets say the fight length is 5 minutes, you have 6 seconds uptime on pull and 18 seconds uptime after your 3 vanishes making it 24 seconds of 100% crit uptime, lets say you have like 35% crit (you probably have less as sub) you get basicaly 65% more damage while having the buff, 24 seconds is 8% of the fight length where you have that 65% damage increase which leads to around 5.2% overall damage
round canyon
@crystal frost while you end up mostly correct it actually isnt 65% more damage going from 35% crit chance to 100%
round canyon
its closer to but not exactly 50%
polar mortar
ok
round canyon
48.14% increased damage is what im getting from my math
is the sim using shadowmeld to trigger it though?
crystal frost
it also has some synergy with belt
crystal frost
so it works with subtlefuge?
maiden cargo
no
but vanish puts you instealth
for 3 sec
effect only stops when stealth fades
so its 9sec from vanish
crystal frost
true
polar mortar
is that worth to not do anything for 3 sec though?
round canyon
someone was trying to make the simulation use flickering shadows aswell
round canyon
not doing anything for 3 seconds to gain ~~50% increased damage for 9 seconds plus a free vanish sounds good to me
round canyon
you would miss out only on auto attacks for the most part
pallid laurel
Is the ptr build for simulation craft accurate? no way i'm simming twice what i'm at live, right?
regal agate
make sure you use the latest build
there was a bug with rupture ticking isanely high on earlyer builds
pallid laurel
I think i downloaded the latest nightly build. how do I check?
regal agate
you can also just go to http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/ and sort by "last modified"
pallid laurel
so I installed that build, should I still click live or ptr?
oh, there is only one option
thanks
trim jasper
with 7.1.5 and the upcomming nervs to assa i wanna switch to Sub my problem is ive got the Bracers and boots legys for Assas is it an option to switch to Sub or is my DMG not gonna be good enough
bleak sky
regal agate
ppl just like to whine
odd sedge
Any of the simcraft pros care to help me sim my BOTA fishing theory? I tried to make a line to sim that but couldnt
actions.maintain=rupture,if=(combo_points<=2)&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
this didnt work
maiden cargo
@trim jasper sub was nerfed more than sin
trim jasper
thats true but that doesnt change the fact that Sub scales alot better than Sin and i dont really like the AP playstyle
maiden cargo
you wouldnt be playing ap in NH, most likely
probably bleed for a majority of bosses
this also isnt the channel for it, this is mostly simc discussion
odd sedge
Who says sub scales better than assassination? they stated that from the start, well im still waiting for it even at 890
maiden cargo
^
ivory stag
people are saying that because it used to, but back then we had sinister calling or w/e that gave extra 15% agility or what it was
odd sedge
no I mean this expansion, not before
carmine ginkgo
winged jettyBOT
split sorrel
I think most ppl are talking about Weapon scaling
in this sense, yes Sub does have a better scaling than Asn, but nothing as big as before
Altough, the scaling through the Artifact is better on Subtlety end, I assume that's why both of these things leads people to say that Sub is ahead
iron elk
@odd sedge try to sostitute
actions.maintain+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=combo_points>=cp_max_spend-talent.exsanguinate.enabled&refreshable&(!exsanguinated|remains<=1.5)&target.time_to_die-remains>4
line with
actions.maintain+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=(combo_points>=1)&!debuff.blood_of_the_assassinated.up
odd sedge
let me see
iron elk
if you use combo_point<=2 when you crit with mutilate sim doesnt refresh
odd sedge
thanks for that, it shot BOTA uptime to 59.79%
iron elk
dps?
odd sedge
sec i have to log in game 😛
546334 dps with bota fishing vs 570867 dps normal one, not far at all, maybe the APL could be more refined, this seems promising
iron elk
with ap?
odd sedge
yes
wait im not even using vigor etc since its the 715 sim... I should change that, and MP right?
rupture damage shoots up to 32%
odd sedge
! good one hemo
iron elk
can save the html and load here? to see the damage part
odd sedge
how do I do that
hemo and vigor lost me 20k dps
id like to test exsang too, but I just deleted the line for it didnt I?
with 1133111 talents - 568923 dps fishing, 600785 dps normal APL
late willow
Yeah I tried out adjusting the exsang and rupture times to accomodate for fishing for bota and it lost me dps in every iteration
for ap and exsang
iron elk
in the result panel, botton right there is save button, then you drop the .html generated in the chat
odd sedge
still the difference isnt that big, and tweaking APL a bit further could be even better, maybe
thanks for help @iron elk 💯
trail herald
hi guys. so im using simc to generate pawn scale factors to id upgrades. lately, items that show as upgrades based on the scales out of simc are simulating at lower dps than what i had equipped previously
i always update the scale in pawn after an upgrade. any idea what might be going on?
ashen crater
How can I use simulation craft to compare prolonged power to old war?
late willow
There is a line in the apl that says "actions.precombat+=/potion,name=old_war"
change that
and in the actions cooldowns area there is a line that says "actions.cds=potion,name=old_war"
change that too
iron elk
@odd sedge have you tried with different relic and legendary?
maybe with 3 gushing wound and bracers instead of boots fishing is better
arctic lily
I tried simming myself, I'm not sure if it's an error on my part but
Is there any way to tell how much Convergence of Fates reduces our Vendetta CD?
iron elk
with boots?
arctic lily
I've got legendary boots and 3 Vendetta relics, it was a 45~ sec cd prior
Sims show exactly the same
arctic lily
Yeah but on average, sims don't have it proc at all
That's what it's gonna go down to?
iron elk
are you using the ptr option? or the night release?
arctic lily
Oh, did SimC update for NH release?
That might be why, wasn't aware there was a new build out yet
regal agate
you can download the latest 7.1.5 version from http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/
the ptr option is not needed
arctic lily
Yeah it's just not simulating CoF procs what-so-ever
weird
Eh, whatever I'll mess with it later, thanks for input guys. If anyone finds a fix and can actually get a decent simulation for CoF procs with Duskwalker's and 3 Vendetta relics please PM me the results.
split sorrel
last time I changed the APL for Assa
I have fixed those interaction
well, most likely
what's the issue ?
arctic lily
Just curious on what my Vendetta CD is going to look like with CoF, Duskwalker's and 3 Vendetta relics
without CoF its at around ~47
split sorrel
sim it, APL should be fine in regards to this
arctic lily
Yeah it's the same with or without CoF
arctic lily
Manually inputting CoF as a trinket etc
split sorrel
show me the report
split sorrel
the html report, you should be able to drag & drop here or by pm
split sorrel
click on save at the bottom
arctic lily
I'm a moron
split sorrel
then it'll ask you where to save it
arctic lily
Sorry, it's 5am
split sorrel
then drag & drop the file here (if you have the right, dunno how it's configured here) or open a pm with me and put it in the pm
odd sedge
@iron elk I did not, will do that today
split sorrel
I'll answer here @arctic lily
in the header there is a mention :
SimulationCraft 710-03
for World of Warcraft 7.1.0 Live (wow build level 22995, git build c5141f9)
it means it's for 7.1.0 and not 7.1.5 that's why you don't see the difference
(I answer here because it's helpful for everyone)
go here : http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
then download the latest nightly
as of right now, it is [ ] simc-715-01-win64-193a9ec.7z 2017-01-08 06:38 43M [ ] SimcSetup-715-01-Win64.exe 2017-01-08 06:38 45M (7z if you want a portable version, .exe if you want the installer)
odd sedge
@iron elk 3 rupture relics lost me almost 100k dps, I guess the 150 energy refill loss from the vendetta reduction is too much impact
split sorrel
Exsg or AP ?
merry cloud
Exsang
split sorrel
actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&(artifact.master_assassin.rank>=4-equipped.convergence_of_fates|equipped.duskwalkers_footpads)&energy.deficit>=75&!(artifact.master_assassin.rank=5-equipped.convergence_of_fates&equipped.duskwalkers_footpads)```what's ur gear and talents ?
merry cloud
I don't have boots
standard EP/Exsang
with DS
okay I used nightly and see new line with artifact.master_assassin.rank>=4
let me try that
yeah it changed
split sorrel
yes use latest nightly without APL (so it uses the default one)
I fixed some days ago Vendetta usage in regards to MA/CoF/Boots
I assume it's not perfect yet but better
cunning narwhal
Hi guys. i have a lot of stuff in bags and want to opti my sub/out rougue. May i use Shadowcraft , mr robot or simcraft?
split sorrel
all 3 ? 😃
cunning narwhal
cause actually i have différent result for outlaws spe
split sorrel
explain your issue, I can help for the simc part
iron elk
@split sorrel if you want here there is a optimized vendetta APL for vigor
https://github.com/simulationcraft/simc/issues/3324
i run some cases with convergences of fate, and basically only the case with 0 MA, no boots and no convergences is better with the old
actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<5&dot.rupture.ticking
if you need i can rewrite the APL for this case
split sorrel
the old is no longer actions.cds+=/vendetta,if=talent.exsanguinate.enabled&cooldown.exsanguinate.remains<5&dot.rupture.ticking
@iron elk
check with the new apl and merge with it
then yes I'll add it
thanks for the vigor add-in
I updated the APL 6 days ago or so
to handle all MA / Boots and CoF thingys
late willow
@split sorrel Do you know which nh trinkets are not in simc yet?
split sorrel
check sc_unique_gear
low gorge
Anyone know what spec seems to be scaling with nighthold gear and fights the best?
late willow
thanks for pointing me to that. It ended up being in sc_unique_gear_x7 for w/e reason.
thanks for pointing me to that. It ended up being in sc_unique_gear_x7 for w/e reason.
iron elk
@split sorrel the conditional
!(artifact.master_assassin.rank=5-equipped.convergence_of_fates&equipped.duskwalkers_footpads)
is to syncronize ex and vendetta for 2MA+1rupture&boots and 1MA&boots+trinket?
ashen crater
where in the simc UI do you go to change the apl?
regal agate
there is no ui. the apl is text based. you can get the latest one from git or download the latest simc version from http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/ and just run a profile without apl(for example 1 iteration). you can then copy the entire string with apl from the profiles tab of the result
ashen crater
Once I've copied it, where do I paste it so that I can make edits and have it use my custom apl instead of the default?
late willow
simulate tab
ashen crater
After my gear info?
regal agate
just make a new tab
your gear information is in the profile so just create a new tab
ashen crater
Thanks for the help!
dusky slate
Is there a convenient line I could add to enable a T19 tier 2 or tier 4 effect, without actually equipping the gear? it would be a nice way to isolate the result of just the bonus
late willow
Not sure of a command but if there isnt one you could increase the stats in the gear summary and uncomment the stats you changed. Sim it that way so you can get a baseline dps for just the stat increases and then comment the stats again and equip the 2pc and 4pc
dusky slate
nice idea, thanks 😃
molten pelican
!relic
winged jettyBOT
molten pelican
Guys, good evening. Could someone please assist me ? I ve got 3 relics - Repture dmg 870, rupture crit change 855, rupture dmg 855, , SHOULD i change them for 3 MA RELICS - 865, 850, 845 ?
molten pelican
how can i sim it withouit changing ? 😦
regal agate
you can use the addon: simbuilder
urban wasp
find the relic ids from wowhead and replace them in the simc string
or use an addon i didn't know existed 😄
regal agate
it offers you an window acessable through the character window where you are able to replace items/relics and copy the simc output string after that.
regal agate
you can else go to wowhead and search your relic and copy the id's from the url
urban wasp
yes you can, you change the item ilvl you want in the menu, then click link, and theres a simc string
regal agate
molten pelican
thank you guys
shy osprey
winged jettyBOT
Aethys Updated Sim Results: https://goo.gl/VSjNfw?
reef crow
Are there any sims with all current 7.1.5 changes? Like setbonuses and ev erything included
slow veldt
guys
quick question for a friend
does rapture snapshot or not
proven dawn
rupture snapshots nightstalker but basically nothing else
proven dawn
No
abstract crypt
How accurate is the 7.1.5 simcraft? Seems like a pretty crazy buff to Sin if it is accurate
stoic surge
where can i find 7.1.5 changes?
hallow mortar
Anyone know how to compile with PTR support?
With my build, when I do ptr=1 my results tab has: SimulationCraft has not been built with PTR data. The 'ptr=' option is ignored.
merry cloud
you don't need PTR, latest builds are for 7.1.5
nova girder
Tonight i downloaded last nightly build, simned my toon bc got the urn from nightbane. In the results tab, simcraft is showing lower stat amount than ingame. Ok -5% for rouges but also lower mastery? Or is there another thing happen to low ilvl gear?
-5% crit i mean
gaunt gale
@nova girder Yep. All stats now cost more raiting per %.
nova girder
@gaunt gale thx, i understand
nova girder
Another question: how accurate is this "sample sequence table" under "action priority list" in the results tab? Could i read out the opener and rotation there?
split sorrel
it's 2nd iteration sequence
so it is what it did on the 2nd iteration
or first if you only have 1 iteration
it's reliable if the apl is "perfect"
else you might spot some weird things, if it happens then please report so we can fix it
an example : doing the rupture snapshot before vanish is an error, if that happen you should report it (it's an example, it shouldn't do that)
nova girder
By rupture snapshot ur talking about the opener with garrote ->mutilate ->rupture-> Mut till 6-> vanish->rupture Sequenz?
split sorrel
yes nightstalker modifer snapshot
which is triggered by vanish
so if you do it before the vanish then 😄
nova girder
I go with garrote Mut till 6 vendetta kb vanish rup. Ok this way? Or still wrong?
Like the sample sequence table
olive moss
The opener on live should be with ap: garrote, rupture, muti, vendetta, muti(if 5p kb if 4p muti) if 6p, vanish, rupture, kb. If you are bloodelf the opener is different
pastel sundial
@split sorrel does the statechange affect the race bonus a lot?
like the 1% crit of be/worgen
split sorrel
@pastel sundial not that much idk
olive moss
Xariaz do you play casually or trying to max out your potential ? if the first one fits you, you wont need to sim your rogue. If the second one fits you need to learn it yourself because you´ll need it a lot and you cant come here and tell ppl to sim your rogue ;D
late willow
I tried to help you. You ignored me and now I ignore you.
olive moss
Xariaz do you play casually or trying to max out your potential ? if the first one fits you, you wont need to sim your rogue. If the second one fits you need to learn it yourself because you´ll need it a lot and you cant come here and tell ppl to sim your rogue ;D
proven dawn
Hey folks rather than piling on, please just let a mod know and they can delete it
olive moss
Does anyone know if the bufffood simcraft shows you is the one you´re supposed to eat? shouldn´t you eat bufffood depending on your stat weights? And @split sorrel do you know if simcraft calculates with Fishbrul Special?
And does the fishbrul special scale with the 15% ep buff?
split sorrel
@olive moss yes but how do I determine the stats weight before computing it ? 😄
by default it's versa for assa because it's a profile for both AP & Exsang, same for Sub
olive moss
gawd. you are right. dumb question ;D
olive moss
i am eating always the best stat. i just noticed it today and was curious 😄
split sorrel
it's one of the flaw of the buff food but tbh, it doesn't matter much
maiden cargo
yeah i just eat fishbrul every time cause it works for all specs and is cheap
split sorrel
modifier no longer works on fishbrul
olive moss
Would be sick if fishbrul scaled with ap. Cheap bufffood for a shitload of dmg 😄
split sorrel
it used to but they nerfed it due to mages
modest ravine
So are main gauche relics going to be go-to if you have the nighthold tier set bonus?
languid python
question regarding SimC and Pawn, i'm looking for the pawn import string in my simcresult, but i can't find it. any ideas where it is?
regal agate
you need to tick the scaling factor in the options and run your simulation after that. you will get the string in the result
languid python
thank you
modest ravine
languid python
is there a way for simc to tell you which gem is best for you? do i have to change gem and simulate after each one or could it just tell me straight away?
late willow
generally people just go with highest stat weight secondary for their gem
In the apl you can just change the gem at the end of the line of your gear with the sockeet
languid python
thanks, where can i find the item ID? wowhead?
proven dawn
stat weights are generally stable enough over the range of a small number of gems that simple stat weights is sufficient, its possible in some cases the stat ranking my change but this means the stat weights were so similar initially the dps delta is basically a rounding error
late willow
You dont need the item id for the gem. I think you just put ,gem=150crit at the end of the line of the item that has a socket
tame gust
Is AMR sim reliable? Can't use SIMC unfortunately
proven dawn
When I last checked AMR was generally very accurate at mechanics but the APLs were sometimes not as mature as the SimC APLs. In general it should be quite accurate. Note there are some complexities to its stat weight generation which can cause odd/hard to explain results but the underlying sim is solid.
tame gust
@proven dawn thx. got a ton of items, which i'm confused about once the stat change comes live.
warm solstice
Changed to triple Vendetta at 904 ilvl on the wep, and noticed i gained dps according to simcraft as AP, but i lost as Exsang? Is that normal?
sacred otter
anyone else losing a good amount of dps on the latest build?
lost 2k on outlaw 15k assassination
regal agate
change talents to virgor and EP for Exang and MP for AP
autumn bramble
vigor w/ ap aswell ?
gleaming viper
yeah vigor with ap as well
hard hull
is there a change to when we should envneomn if we go MP?
ember gust
!help
winged jettyBOT
!stjern, !guide, !simc, !stats, !followers, !aethys, !champions, !artifact, !artifacts, !enchants, !skasch, !faq, !winner, !wa, !weakaura, !trinkets, !trinket, !relics, !relic, !mage, !potions, !pots, !715, !nighthold, !legendary, !legendaries, !log, !greenskins, !thraxxis
ember gust
are there any updated sims?
sudden sphinx
Guessing its 4 if you hit 4 and garrote is down
and 5 all other times with vigor / ,p
mp
untold onyx
!relics
winged jettyBOT
ember gust
!aethys
winged jettyBOT
Aethys Updated Sim Results: https://goo.gl/VSjNfw?
thorn gorge
!nighthold
winged jettyBOT
sudden sphinx
!enchants
winged jettyBOT
Q: What are the best enchants? Neck: Mark of the Hidden Satyr, Cloak: Binding of Agility, Ring: Depends on spec and personal stat weights. Sim yourself.
raven tulip
vigor for outlaw now?
I don't see that on the new spreadsheet
it still lists greater strat
feral crystal
How have the enchant changes altered the preferred neck enchant? If at all
desert oasis
is sim close at all for sin righ tnow? giving me a huge dps bump and mastery is by far my best stat now... anyone else getting this? this accurate?
desert oasis
!simc
winged jettyBOT
How To Sim Yourself: https://goo.gl/YACUkz Download SimulationCraft at https://simulationcraft.org/
quartz halo
why in 7.1.5 simc does it say mastery is so much better than everything else for MP/AP have 33% crit
Agility=18.69, CritRating=13.12, HasteRating=8.30, MasteryRating=15.40, Versatility=12.46
storm nimbus
because MP heavily values mastery and Kingsbane is getting effectively buffed
vivid siren
Is it easier to push for mastery or should we still aim towards 44% crit?
drowsy rivet
!stats
winged jettyBOT
You should Sim yourself to find stat weights: https://goo.gl/YACUkz
drowsy rivet
!715
winged jettyBOT
Best Rogue Spec for 715/NH? https://goo.gl/bmtWKV
merry token
i didnt see in the patch notes, but did the blunderbuss buff go through?
hard vessel
Is the legendary tab also updated on aethys' excel file
potent wren
So is mastery the go to secondary stat for all 3 specs in 7.15?
storm nimbus
why would outlaw want mastery in 7.1.5?
neon berry
would anyone know how to sim relics you don't have socketed yet?
past token
@neon berry are you looking to test specific traits? like a 6MA
or a specific ilvl
adding artifact_override="fates_thirst:6/fatebringer:3/fortune_strikes:3"
to your simcraft profile will override the current relics
you can do it for each specific trait
neon berry
both really
past token
ahh ok sec
main_hand=the_dreadblades,id=128872,bonus_id=742,gem_id=140819/140817/140841,relic_id=3519/3519/3519
so if you look here
the gem id is the id for the relic
you grab the id from the "item=134081" part of the url
relic id in this case is different because i've overridden the artifact
i don't quite understand how to force the artifact weapon to a specific ilvl yet
perhaps the bonus id?
feral crystal
Yeah the ilvl and augmentations to items are in the bonus id
What I did to figure it out is I input everything from the simc addon into simc, tgen have a good look at the order of the relic and gem ids in your artifact
Then look up the relics that are already in your artifact on wowhead for the item id and bonus ids
And you can match them up and see what order they are in
When you figure out what id is what you look up the relic you want to test, making sure you select the correct ilvl etc then swap the ids in
feral crystal
I believe it's covered in the sim yourself guide as well
hard hull
is anyone simming 4pc asssassin rogue as a dps lost?
radiant island
Anyone looked at the damage per tick value for Draught of Souls recently?
whole onyx
!trinkets
winged jettyBOT
split sorrel
@radiant island don't think so here 😒 and I didn't myself
I know rets were talking about it yesterday maybe they have more details
rain ice
hey im simming myself as assassin (usually play sub) using the PTR option on simc 7.0.3
and im getting insanely high dps/rupture dmg
is this like a bug with the new rupture calculation or something
graceful parrot
Think ptr option in older version was broke, but more recent nightly builds or the baseline build tmrw is basically ptr/to be current by tmrw
elfin dagger
for mp/vigor as sin you would keep the rotation the same right? except wait longer to pool energy for envenoms? and just rupture/envenom on 4cp unless you have garrote up and it's about to fall off?
placid echo
Guys whats the strongest spec atm looking at 715 official notes?
raven sage
when should i use dreadlords stacks with a crit proc from momentum of angerboda?
regal agate
makaza the spec you have the best legendarys for 😛
drowsy rivet
guys do you think death from above is viable now after it became buffed?
latent bear
how do i sim my char with the 7.1.5 changes? or are they already just implemented into simc. Anything specific i have to do? (I changed my "Version" from "Live" to "PTR" and it changed my dps from 428k to 860k...so i think i did something wrong..
austere iron
What last change 😳
keen lion
They fucked MA its 10/10/10/8/6/4 now
maiden cargo
what mean ma?
keen lion
Master Assassin
maiden cargo
ahm and whats that?
trail grove
its on PTR atm
regal agate
its on ptr we will see if its on live once live comes online
austere iron
@regal agate are the 4cp rupture and envenom in the apl yet?
regal agate
i submitted it yesterday but i guess not
the win/lose isnt as high as you may expect
its decent without those changes 😃
split sorrel
please guys, this channel is about #tc-research usage, not your theories following a nerf/up, do that in #228878985210101760
zealous mason
I was looking at Aethys spreadsheet, and clicked on the Exsang simulation, and the simulation seems to be based on 1 Master Alchemist relic (rather than Master assassin) and 2 gushing wounds relics. would that be a bug ?
this is the sim I am talking about : http://simc.aethys.eu/rog_asn_ex_t19x_1t_default.html
This is only the case for T19M (not P or H)
graceful perch
!relic
winged jettyBOT
tiny echo
regal agate
north heath
so, any word on the master assasin relics being changed?
arctic lily
there's no simc build yet that has those changes, i'm pretty miffed myself but i'm sure you'll find out today what the optimal set up would be.
wild echo
the MA changes are real
iron elk
probably in the APL wont change nothing, the main discriminant is how much energy from urge to kill you can waste to maximise vendetta uptime
mint pawn
Has anyone tried setting up specific rules on usage of vanish/sprint with the new shoulders?
regal agate
no, i am also unsure if the trait is inplemented in simc atm
swift slate
How do you update simcraft for the 7.1.5 version??
regal agate
download the latest 7.1.5 version from the link aboth
swift slate
ty
mint pawn
Either way I'd like some help testing an idea or two with regards to shoulders if anyone is interested
pulsar kraken
Sims for Ayymd-Kazzak 889 equipped with 860 eye of command and 890 Ethereal Urn
EP - DS - AP @7.1: 558.3K @7.1.5: 556.9K
EP - DS - EX @7.1: 546.6K @7.1.5: 565.7K
MP - DS - AP @7.1: 550.4K @7.1.5: 583.8K
MP - VIG - AP @7.1: 542.5K @7.1.5: 571.8K
3x MA + Boots
regal agate
ye just post your theorie, we can discuss it (and edit the apl if its relevant) @mint pawn
trim jasper
is there a new Simc version for 7.1.5?
pulsar kraken
swift slate
When I download the latest version of simc and I try to open it, it makes an error
trim jasper
cheers mate
regal agate
you can download a packed version and unpack it if you have problems with the installer
lost river
Is SimC updated with MA nerfs ?
woven heron
I don't know if SimC is updated with rupture damage either, on live a 1 point rupture ticks for the same amount as a 6 combo point rupture, only the duration changes. Can anyone verify if simc is correct?
wheat scroll
MA Master assassin?
lost river
Yes
proven dawn
The nightly builds should include all the documented changes, I'm not sure if they include the MA change yet
novel pier
Can someone run a sub sim and see if the APL is showing up? I just ran 2 and didnt get an APL or sample table back.
wheat scroll
so 3x MA reduces my CD on vendetta by 48 secs
left finch
Yes
tawny fulcrum
@proven dawn they do include them
flat herald
sorry if this is not the right time/place to ask this, but has the priority of relics for sub changed at all?
uneven moat
could someone explain how to fix this in simcraft: Thirtyhertz missing 'use_item' action for item "tirathons_betrayal" (slot=trinket2)
Disable this warning by adding 'use_item' actions into the action priority list for the actor(s), or add "use_item_verification=0" to your list of options passed to Simulationcraft.
flat herald
like is it still GR/ES?
regal agate
AP goes with MP/virgor and Exang goes with EP/virgor
no but aethys did sim everything and updated it in his spreadsheet
shell hinge
but Vigor is roughly 10k dps compared to DS
*more
and mastery just skyrocated
the newest simc has the MA nerfs
shows a 72 second cd for Vendetta
with 3 relics
maiden cargo
split sorrel
this is not #228878985210101760, keep the discussion focused on simulationcraft
else please continue it in another channel
green drum
anyone can send me the link for simcraft? that showed on site dont work
shell hinge
green drum
@shell hinge ty
iron elk
@split sorrel can explain me why there is this conditional
!(artifact.master_assassin.rank=5-equipped.convergence_of_fates&equipped.duskwalkers_footpads)
for vendetta with exanguinate?
for lining up with old 2MA+boots or 1MA+both?
elder kindle
Not in the Patchnotes
split sorrel
I'll wait some day before changing again the APL
uneven moat
@split sorrel could you plz explain how to fix this in APL? Thirtyhertz missing 'use_item' action for item "tirathons_betrayal" (slot=trinket2)
Disable this warning by adding 'use_item' actions into the action priority list for the actor(s), or add "use_item_verification=0" to your list of options passed to Simulationcraft.
split sorrel
don't want to loose more hours
delete the line about the use item
or delete the whole apl
(it'll generate the default one)
inland plaza
so with the stat squish to crit for assassination I am at 37/10/109 on my stats should i be stacking more mastery then
zealous mason
@split sorrel, you prolly haven't seen this : I was looking at the 7.15 updated spreadsheet, and clicked on the Exsang simulation, and the simulation seems to be based on 1 Master Alchemist relic (rather than Master assassin) and 2 gushing wounds relics. would that be a bug ?
this is the sim I am talking about : http://simc.aethys.eu/rog_asn_ex_t19x_1t_default.html
This is only the case for T19M (not P or H)
split sorrel
it's default profile
merry cloud
hm 3 rupture relics with the same ilvl is a dps increase over 3 MA for my gear
6k which is around 1.3%
cursive plinth
So is the nerf to MA relics that big? Will it mean that they're worse than rupture dmg relics?
merry cloud
that is for Exsang build
iron elk
uhm, using my old APL with my actual gear
3MA are still better
surprisingly MP-AP with 3-2-1MA roughly the same
EP-EX 3MA really above the others
iron elk
for multitarget rupture was better with 3+
inland comet
rupture >>> MA
iron elk
even before
twin ibex
3 MA relics + sin boots = 48 sec cd from 41 sec
raven tulip
Aethys' spreadsheet updated with the MA nerf?
regal agate
no
sullen dagger
can someone here clarify something for me? a month or two back, weak did some testing on surge of toxins
SoT affects AP by 1% per CP spent, capping at 5 CPs, right?
drifting bane
So is simcraft's results inaccurate until they update for 7.1.5?
regal agate
you can use the latest nightly build of simc. it has the changes
drifting bane
thanks
iron elk
using my character and properly changing item/relics
3MA is still better with boots, meanwhile for EP/EX withouts boots 3GW is ahead of 1K
inland comet
nice... i have boots and can keep 3MA
main badger
you going with exg or ap
i mean setbonus are in favor for exg build since it bleed damg .
proven dawn
Answer: sim it, none of us know the answer for all cases, this is why we make tools
inland comet
exsa is better for plus and switching target fight
and i like the "burst" of the talent
main badger
are there any break point for ap build ?
proven dawn
There have never been generalizable break points for AP vs Exsang
Also folks lets keep this channel about APL development and whatnot
iron elk
i personally take the talent most useful for the encounter, no reason to pick AP if my guild need burst in odyn p2
btw i see sometimes simcraft page with multiple result, how i can join multiple result in a single html?
proven dawn
put both profiles in the same file
iron elk
the APLs cant be omitted?
proven dawn
If you use default APL they can be, otherwise no
another option is to have 1 apl per file then a top level file that imports the separate apl file and run that top level file
shell hinge
So i just simmed some relics
in the same ilevel
i got 20k more with MA still with boots
then with 3 gushing wound
spiral oasis
Just getting into simming, i assume that i have to change (APL?) something atleast due to the patch changes. Can someone explain or point me to a guide that does?
iron elk
@proven dawn ty
autumn jungle
anywhere i can get the download for 715 simcraft?
left notch
download the nightly build
autumn jungle
thanks
blazing abyss
so with 3x MA + boots > 3x Rupture dmg increase + boots?
Ah, didn't see your post Trib
proven dawn
In general you should sim yourself to find out, it isn't at all clear if the answer generalizes
left notch
@iron elk check ur PMs please 😃
novel pier
I am just playing around with modifying Subtlety precombat actions a bit, and I am noticing that if I build my own profile, for some reason it will not detect them and will use the default APL precombat. On the other hand, if I copy the Rogue_Sublety_T19M_NH and change the food/potion/whatever, it works fine. I verified the syntax of the lines and such are exactly the same as the "OOB" profiles. Any ideas why this might happen?
maiden cargo
yes. When you build your own profile and have very few lines simc doesnt replace default profile lines, which is built from the rogue module.
the 19M profile is generated from the rogue module and so if you copy the whole thing and replace lines in there
it will replace the default profile
but if you only have a few lines you dont have enough to make a full profile so i believe it doesnt stick and just uses its default profile
novel pier
Ahh, so having just full precombat actions isnt enough, I need to have a full actions profile too? interesting. Makes things alot more complicated.
Cool. Ill try it out. Thanks
sterile fox
Is there a simcraft update for 7.1.5, or is it still working properly for this patch
proven dawn
You can grab the nightly builds from here: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
sterile fox
Most recent one?
proven dawn
yeah 715-01
sterile fox
Thank you.
wooden hinge
do you guys still think master assassin is best relic after nerf???
grizzled zinc
if you have the vendetta boots, 3xMA still looks to be best
wooden hinge
i have back and the better ring so u think for me?
proven dawn
The only answer is to sim it yourself, we don't have a good understanding of all the interactions figured out yet
wooden hinge
ya thats what im doing now lol
grizzled zinc
yeah my gues would be rupture
wooden hinge
but im sticking to sin cause i hate outlaw
sterile fox
I can't get into Outlaw either. Just don't enjoy it.
wooden hinge
maybe if roll of teh bones was good
proven dawn
Hey folks talking about why outlaw is a totally toxic spec is a great topic but not for this channel, thanks
wooden hinge
oh also what do u guys think about eye of command 860 vs 875 urn for sin rn cause we got the crit nerf?
(if this is off caht topic lmk)
cinder jewel
Has anyone simmed Convergence of Fate for outlaw yet?
left notch
So,, according to @shell hinge and I's research Gushing Wound relics is simming higher for both psn and bleed when you don't have the boots. When you have the boots MA sims higher for both. Is anyone else returning similair results in their sims?
wooden hinge
love u man
north quartz
@left notch So MA is RIP?
wooden hinge
if u dont have boots
left notch
no i did not say that
north quartz
or at least the 3rd relic
left notch
i am not making any conclusions here
north quartz
im pretty sure you replace the third MA relic cause of the DR
but that just me speculating
maiden cargo
only problem is, i believe sin apl is outdated with changes
wooden hinge
i would say that gushing wound is prob better if u dont have boots
radiant wagon
But what's the equivalence between the two relics?
Like 880 rup > 880 MA without boots? Or is MA still a bit of an ilvl diff
dire hornet
I simmed mine and i haev 2 MA and 1 Rup simmed higher then all rup
I simmed mine and i haev 2 MA and 1 Rup simmed higher then all rup
final ember
@left notch yes, can confirm, this is my sim with the boots. 3rd MA relic still simming much higher (both relics 880). Talents: MP+Vigor+AP
sharp void
feels bad, no boots
radiant wagon
I'm so boob how do we sim relics like that
dire hornet
yea i do not have the boots
merry cloud
@left notch for me Exsang build sins higher with rupture relics of the same ilvl. No boots
wooden hinge
ya i wanna see the sims without boots casue most ppl dont have them
merry cloud
Didn't try AP
radiant wagon
@final ember what were you simming at before with 3MA? Net gain or loss
maiden cargo
has anyone looked at or simmed neck enchant changes
they seem to have buffed the worse ones
satyr may not be the best
sullen jay
any one simed 3MA and boots?
final ember
MP simmed way higher than EP for me even at something like 80% Mastery
blazing trellis
unreal cloud
I don't know what to do. Outlaw is my best weapon, but I have no wrists. I also have 3MA + Sin boots (no bracer) and just dropped sub boots.
sullen jay
sims val ?
radiant creek
With MP you just revert back to max CP finishers?
sullen jay
3ma +boots ❤
wide hawk
i dunno if its a tooltip error or what but MA relics got nerfed not sure if this has been stated already
rain fossil
yes
they got nerfed, 12s nerf
I went and changed all of my 3 MA relics for rup dmg relics for some blind rage moment (1 hour ago), I feel really stupid atm.
I dont have boots, but my EP + MP + 3xMA + AP sims 25k better than any other combination
mighty monolith
mp/vigor/ap - still use 3 point envenom for SoT, or better for 5point?
maiden cargo
886 EP+Vigor+Exsang Bracers/Waist
http://i.imgur.com/BRi9MYL.png
last copper
ep/exsang still the highest for me by far, but I haven't gotten my hands on much mastery gear and dont have the bracers
gritty cairn
I have 97% Mastery after the patch, I am wonderig if EP still rocks it for me
hard hull
So is boots+ 3MA best combo?
odd sedge
think the mods have to close this channel for a couple days 😄
heady elm
or limit it
chilly pier
are the sim's still lining up Vendetta with Vanish with the new timing nerfs? or using them off CD?
now that Vendetta works properly with Kingsbane also?
toxic ridge
my sims were using it every 72s so i assume it is off CD
chilly pier
ah, thank you! Do you happen to know if it was just using Kingsbane like before off CD as well with the new fixes?
muted coyote
Is 710-03 up to date?
exotic karma
not sure
sturdy horizon
muted coyote
In the directory?
sullen jay
@chilly pier does it ?
fresh needle
simc with boots is busted, it's giving me a 60s vendetta interval even though it's actually under 50s
muted compass
so MA got nerfed?
and didnt say anything in the patch notes. i have the boots too, and im getting around 45-48 second cds where i was getting 40-41
wet mango
@muted compass Yeah it got nerfed
got nerfed down to 8/6/4 after the first three points iirc
autumn jungle
Legendary Boots, 3 MA Relics, MP/Vigor/AP 524,308 DPS 883 Item Level
36% Crit, 4% Haste, 98% Mastery, 5% Vers... ^^
wanton shell
@left notch you arent specifying on your first sim link if you are using vigot or DS
chilly pier
@sullen jay i read somewhere that 7.1 Kingsbane was not getting buffed correctly with Vendetta (not getting the damage boost) so you would use Kingsbane off CD without any lining up (unless you needed the energy refill sorta)
so im wondering if its a big enough factor in 7.1.5 to lineup Kingsbane with Vendetta now that its fixed
left notch
@wanton shell it's vigor. I will make a note of it 😃
undone geyser
so is there a new simulationcraft, or does 7.1.5 changes apply to 7.1.0 release 3?
regal agate
latest nightly
you need to download it from http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
undone geyser
thanks
sullen jay
@chilly pier yeah KB is not an abillity it's a wepoin trait bro
regal agate
KB means Kingsbane and its the artefact ability of Assasination
sullen jay
yeah i kno
wide hawk
is 710-03 the most up to date simulationcraft?
regal agate
no
thorn scarab
I'm going to try out envenom relics possibly, at least two with 1 MA
Due to the envenom buff + 4 set.
compact prism
Establishing strongest opener for vigor with all of this extra energy
i feel like i energy cap with the standard
restive maple
is there an updated simcraft for nerfed relics yet?
proven dawn
715-01 nightly is updated
empty moss
wanton shell
supposedly satyr
however im not convinced since the update on the other one seems pretty juicy
snow tinsel
where can I find the ID for the mastery gem?
wanton shell
wowhead i guess
wanton shell
there is an option on the gem
saying something like link?
copy link?
sth like that
the id is in that
left notch
it's in the url
snow tinsel
Thanks
maiden cargo
In the latest nightly its still using
actions.finish+=/envenom,if=combo_points>=5|(talent.elaborate_planning.enabled&combo_points>=3+!talent.exsanguinate.enabled&buff.elaborate_planning.remains<0.1)
It should be 4 correct?
for vigor anyway
torn dome
You will see an improvement with 4 yes
hasty wagon
sorry for the dumb question, but which version is nightly's?
proven dawn
Nightlies are found here: http://downloads.simulationcraft.org/?C=M;O=D
thorn scarab
So are we liking vigor more than deeper strat? And what about EP vs MP
distant rune
MP wins if you have high enough mastery. Before the EP nerf I think that mark was 130%? That is obviously lower now.
Not sure the exact mark though.
long hinge
Where are the stat weights when I sim myself
cosmic island
bleed rogue looks viable now.
distant rune
You need to go into options and check the ticks for the stats you want simmed, then the weights will be on the results page
long hinge
I did that, the stat weights didn't show up 😦
distant rune
make sure you have agi also selected
long hinge
I selected all of the options, but not 'Enable Scaling' lol
icy prawn
Is Outlaw Weighted correctly on Sims or is priority still just Vers --> Crit
shadow lance
What means "enable scaling" on simcraft? I'm French and I don't understand this option
odd sedge
it means enable finding out what stats are better for your character
shadow lance
Ok and when can I find this ? On the result ?
plain gulch
Yes, on the results page. It will read"scale factors" and give you a pawn string for stat weights.