WW mastery literally buffs the damage of whatever button you press next by whatever % mastery you have as long as it's not a repeat of the previous button
#pvp
potent pivot
DM is different because you have to press 1-2-3-4-5-6 whereas monk is like 1-2-1-2-1-2
right?
potent pivot
i like mobility a lot as well
outer sky
But your point is the same
potent pivot
so like rogue/dh
outer sky
WW had mobility 😞
potent pivot
i don't like ww mobility as much
like the kick that takes them 5000yards
i can't stand that one
outer sky
Flying serpent kick
jolly sierra
ww movility is disgusting when is not countered by a mage
outer sky
But you can cancel it mid travel by pressing it again
And it drops you wherever you're at
potent pivot
But you can cancel it mid travel by pressing it again
was it always like that?
outer sky
was it always like that?
Yes
jolly sierra
ww also has one of the best dmg scaling increase with both mastery and versa raising their direct damage
waxen meteor
DM is different because you have to press 1-2-3-4-5-6 whereas monk is like 1-2-1...
hmm that's true, never thought about that
outer sky
Yeah it's very good
outer sky
<@339519002961248258> going rated in ygo till lv50
Nice I play YGO Omega sometimes and still do locals
potent pivot
what in the actual
jolly sierra
i rlly wanna return locals w friends
waxen meteor
Does ww get a rework in tww?
or i can hop on my current live monk character would be basically the same
potent pivot
some things changed
jolly sierra
waxen meteor
i also have no clue why some random hunter has like 50% more hp than me in arena
is there some gear upgrade?
in live i mean prepatch
stoic spruce
The gouge CD change is such a nothing burger nerf
I wish they added a note to every change they make in terms of ability tuning
I need to know why they thought adding 5 seconds was worth
potent pivot
I need to know why they thought adding 5 seconds was worth
Most likely didn’t think it was okay for us to have basically 2 kicks with such low cd
5 seconds is still small though yeah
potent pivot
is there some gear upgrade?
There’s catch up gear from prepatch but none of it should be better than conq gear in pvp I’m pretty sure
I think it’s all like 490ish?
livid cipher
when using dtb is amp or deadly a personal choice assuming you always run wound poison?
potent pivot
when using dtb is amp or deadly a personal choice assuming you always run wound ...
We don’t really run DTB
If you’re going to run it anyway then yeah
potent pivot
thx
really if you were going to run dtb anyway you wouldn't want to take amp talent
but if you're spending the talent point on amp regardless of what's best, then yeah you'd prolly want to use it
livid cipher
yah was thinking i should just drop it in that case
waxen meteor
I think it’s all like 490ish?
yeah that's why i am so confused
i see a hunter with almost 2m hp coming from nowhere
like he is not using all stamina gem or any goofy stuff
potent pivot
yah was thinking i should just drop it in that case
if you're going to play DTB you'd want to play this
waxen meteor
i mean 490 is more like last season, but i get your point
potent pivot
i just wanted to stress that DTB isn't the best choice, but if you're going to play it anyway you'd play that
potent pivot
i see a hunter with almost 2m hp coming from nowhere
some classes have that much hp
like dk for example
idle sundial
Highest blitz rating you guys have seen?
I'm trying to get all the titles but not sure if possible rn
potent pivot
I'm trying to get all the titles but not sure if possible rn
gonna have plenty of time to get em after the season actually starts
idle sundial
Do you think season is going to feel as free as it does rn?
potent pivot
yep
potent pivot
yeh
stoic spruce
New expansions usually pop off
livid cipher
i see a hunter with almost 2m hp coming from nowhere
wait yah the hunter i was in a game with had 1.8 lol is that not normal or
potent pivot
it should have way more participation than regular RGBs
livid cipher
im at 1.4
idle sundial
for sure
potent pivot
wait yah the hunter i was in a game with had 1.8 lol is that not normal or
it is normal
idle sundial
I'm at 1822 CR and somewhere around 2200-2300 MMR and my qs take forever
livid cipher
ah ok thought theyd be less tanky ha
outer sky
it should have way more participation than regular RGBs
oh i thought we meant arean myb
So I was just in a match and my priest life swapped my when I was cloaked. His health went down but mine didn't go up. i guess cloak immuned the swap? I wonder if that works in the reverse. Where we can coordinate cloak and swap so if he's low he can swap me with cloak up, gain health and not drop mine low
potent pivot
So I was just in a match and my priest life swapped my when I was cloaked. His h...
you probably just immuned it
you could try it tho
the first second of cloak works differently than the rest of it's duration, it causes some weird stuff
if it didn't raise your health but it still dropped his...
in theory it should work
but you'd have to be in voice with a priest to get it right i think
idk how good it'd be to use that in a game tho
you'd be committing 2 defensives for it
outer sky
yeah true
potent pivot
all that really saves is a couple globals for your healer i feel
could be good if in a really bad situation ig
outer sky
@jolly sierra the rug under my coffee table
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> the rug under my coffee table
whoa a brick rug
look i have this thingies i ordered from asian south east
have u seen the price of BE magia? is expensive af
outer sky
nice man
indigo hill
Haven't seen those cards in a long time. Used to have a whole collection but my dad's gf tossed them in the trash shortly after I moved out.
indigo hill
Yeah I had 2 exodia. Head and arm. Thise cost me 125 euro each at the time.
jolly sierra
Yeah I had 2 exodia. Head and arm. Thise cost me 125 euro each at the time.
fuck, sounds like 1st editions fr
indigo hill
We're all first addition. I moved countries so couldn't take everything with me at once. I asked my dad if I could store some on his attic and sent it over later. Then his gf cleaned the attic and tossed my stuff. Also had some of the first wow action figures. Like the gnome warrior.
outer sky
I have an exodia head I need to get rated for condition
nova viper
look i have this thingies i ordered from asian south east
this is pokemon?
Seeeeeexo
shy nebula
2nd pre-patch reset where you cannot transfer honor nor buy the item from the vendor to transfer it. Thanks Blizz!
wanton breach
<@239851547935113216> the rug under my coffee table
that's fucking awesome, kaiba
late nova
is rogue not good in team fights? it feels like it would be best in a 1v1?
indigo hill
Great for cc in team fights. Ass can toss out allot of dots and cc healers. You can be a real annoyance.
Subtly has the dual talent you can use to take someone out of the team fight. You got smoke bomb to get people put of line of sight.
Damage wise were not doing well now but hopefully it straightens out at 80.
halcyon timber
is rogue not good in team fights? it feels like it would be best in a 1v1?
We are there to raise hell and praise dale. Not about pad nonsense for meter maids to feel better about themselves.
Its about creating moments to shift the momentum by precision and dirty deeds.
late nova
gotcha so strat wise, go in and cc then haul ass lol?
if i stay and try to dps then i get cc'd to hell lol
halcyon timber
You pick your shots and adjust as needed.
Whos on dr - who isn’t. What can you do atm? What tools are available to create an opening etc. a big flow chart from situational awareness is all it is
indigo hill
Let's say you see a healer that is almost dead and the other healer wants to heal healer 1. You shadowstep and smoke bomb the near dead healer, then the other healer can't heal.
You can slow flag carriers or use some other cc on those riding your flag carriers ass.
And then disappear into the shadows once more.
hollow carbon
Haven’t played blitz yet, but can imagine that you have some impact as rogue or
late nova
Let's say you see a healer that is almost dead and the other healer wants to hea...
ooo i didnt know you could do that. so i guess shadowbomb is good against everything except for aoe?
halcyon timber
smokebomb? Yes it has a lot of uses. It's a solid multitool. Other classes have similar effects sorta kinda as well. Mage / Evoker
potent pivot
2nd pre-patch reset where you cannot transfer honor nor buy the item from the ve...
did they say there was going to be a way to transfer it or something?
indigo hill
Was meant to be transferable but you will sacrfice 20% of the honor you transfer.
shy nebula
did they say there was going to be a way to transfer it or something?
Yeah, apparently they removed it first day of prepatch bc of a bug that made you gain more honor levels. But thye haven't enabled the item either so idk what they're doing
potent pivot
Yeah, apparently they removed it first day of prepatch bc of a bug that made you...
bug prolly just isn't fixed yet
prepatch stuff is likely on the backburner because they have an expansion to release in a couple weeks
shy nebula
bug prolly just isn't fixed yet
yeah I know bro, but they can just put the item back on the vendor so i can play my alts
prepatch event is ass, at least let me have fun
potent pivot
yeah I know bro, but they can just put the item back on the vendor so i can play...
i mean if it's giving people honor levels they can't lol
it doesn't take long to get full honor gear
and there's conq boxes you can use to skip honor gear altogether
i know it sucks but sometimes you gotta take the bad with the good
make a positive out of a negative
shy nebula
it doesn't take long to get full honor gear
it doesnt' take long but its boring as fck
you basically cannot play
you're forced to be a target dummy for 10 minutes at a time
what they can do tho, is sometime release a feature that is not broken day 1
indigo hill
what they can do tho, is sometime release a feature that is not broken day 1
It's a dream we all have.
potent pivot
you're forced to be a target dummy for 10 minutes at a time
i did it just the other day, it is what it is
the negativity gets you nowhere
shy nebula
i did it just the other day, it is what it is
nah I don't go through shit, if you don't complain they think you're sattisfied
and I'm anything but sattisfied
if your feature is broken and stinks, imma tell you
if it doesn't suck and it's cool ill say that too
shy nebula
forums already have 2 posts with that and they make blind eyes to them
so
idk where i can rant
potent pivot
idk where i can rant
ranting is fine, i get the frustration
it just doesn't get you anywhere being so negative ya know?
these things happen, sometimes we just gotta either roll with it or not play
shy nebula
shit mb then
jolly sierra
once they went mad for a meme a guy said about claiming wow for himself
shy nebula
what
jolly sierra
cuz it didnt listed "2004-2024" once year changed
in the login screen
so blizz was fast and changed it ASAP
shy nebula
LOOOL
stoic spruce
but here they won't
I wouldn't either
jolly sierra
I wouldn't either
rant number 1:
"oh shit here we go again rolls eyes"
jolly sierra
i wanna cap more bases with cloak of shadows again
stoic spruce
I don't have the energy nvm
Outlaw joke
outer sky
all 3 rogue specs in 1 lobby damage comparison
jolly sierra
idk how the outlaw hasnt his name banned
outer sky
its beta
potent pivot
all 3 rogue specs in 1 lobby damage comparison
outlaw can do a lot more than that depending on the player and lobby
from what i've been seeing so far
i've seen it stay well over 500k dps in some lobbies
thats a funny comparison though, all the rogue specs vs'ing each other
narrow tangle
all 3 rogue specs in 1 lobby damage comparison
I'd say nothing has changed for rogues
compared to other classes
outer sky
One big buff to assass they could do is tie deathstalkers mark to garrote instead of ambush
would be good even in PvE
stoic spruce
Going to make non-crackshot work since they refuse to revert the ace nerf
Probably KiR/ER
If I had to guess
outer sky
Going to make non-crackshot work since they refuse to revert the ace nerf
On beta that's perfectly viable. Dispatch is hitting harder than BTE anyway
stoic spruce
Well its also got the 50% of a dispatch as well
But like
Idk I picked a bad time to do this because I'm going back to work for a week
outer sky
Start a business and set your own hours like I did
then you can hire a manager to do all the real work
and play video games whenever you want
stoic spruce
Sir LLCs are strictly for tax evasion
halcyon timber
Taxes are theft
stoic spruce
Real
potent pivot
One big buff to assass they could do is tie deathstalkers mark to garrote instea...
Does pressing ambush once in a stealth window feel that bad?
outer sky
Does pressing ambush once in a stealth window feel that bad?
kinda yeah
and also if you tie it to empowered garrotes instead, it could spread
because crimson tempest consumes a stack
so really you want it on all 3 targets
outer sky
Probably KiR/ER
ER even with reverb hits for like 240k. Maybe go all in for a full dispatch build and play this
outer sky
or maybe this
stoic spruce
Where did the ace talent point go?
I see nvm
Depending on how energy feels, I'd move FF to KiR still
Idk if you can find a better value for it
Besides crackshot ofc but thats obv not the point
potent pivot
so really you want it on all 3 targets
idk that sounds kinda bad, don't you want envenom to consume the last stack
i think it's purposefully made to only apply to 1 target
outer sky
That procs AFTER you consume the last stack. Not by consuming the last stack
potent pivot
ahh yeah
potent pivot
i think it's purposefully made to only apply to 1 target
i still think this is the case tho
seems very purposefully designed around applying to 1 target at a time
my g600 is bugging out man
i think i'm going to have to retire it
outer sky
my g600 is bugging out man
RIP
potent pivot
the left click is acting up
sometimes it's double clicking and it's not staying held down properly
wintry dew
What does this even mean?
outer sky
I wonder wtf is taking them so long to tune Fatal Intent
outer sky
Call me crazy but I think there might be some cheating going on in this lobby....
potent pivot
I wonder wtf is taking them so long to tune Fatal Intent
can you imagine trying to tune an ability like that when we also have sudden demise and zoldycks?
i can't 
if it's tuned even slightly too strong we can basically consider getting someone sub 20% as dead
wary moss
I'm just getting back into the game. Plan on playing my rogue for tww. Have a question.
Why are all the pvp players taking crimson tempest and the fan of knives talents
outer sky
I'm just getting back into the game. Plan on playing my rogue for tww. Have a qu...
Because they're better into almost every match ups. Fan is a much more energy efficient builder than mutilate, especially if you can hit more than 1 target, and it keeps your poisons up. CT is also a big source of damage for assa in arena
outer sky
can you imagine trying to tune an ability like that when we also have sudden dem...
I just thought of something. Shouldnt bone spike on its own insta proc sudden demons? Since the bleed never falls off its remaining damage is always infinite
potent pivot
I'm just getting back into the game. Plan on playing my rogue for tww. Have a qu...
pvp has basically become m+
big aoe dmg is good rn
potent pivot
I just thought of something. Shouldnt bone spike on its own insta proc sudden de...
nah it has something in the code to prevent things like that
back in SL beta iirc SBS with vendetta leggo would basically crash the entire beta server
nova jay
how does one counter sin rogues as a caster?
outer sky
how does one counter sin rogues as a caster?
depends on the caster
nova jay
devoker
outer sky
yikes thats a tough one lol assa is really good into dev
nova jay
sin rogues and dks ruining my day
outer sky
I dont think you can "counter" it. But I would recommend only using your defensives and mobility for defensive purposes. Don't hover just so you can cast without being CCd, save it to kite. Don't scales to prevent yourself from getting silenced or kicked, use it when you need the defensive. Don't shroud at the start of the game or else itll just get sapped off
I might also suggest playing 4s renewing blaze
and dont forget to caut often
caut after a vanish is good
and on death mark
nova jay
caut has a 1 min cd
outer sky
ik
nova jay
so I get maybe 2 or 3 cauts a game
nova jay
deathmark is 2 min cd right
outer sky
and itll be up for next death mark
yeah
but bleeds are more than just damage for us. They give us resources when they tick
cauting them can leave us energy starved
and reduce the dam you take
nova jay
so I spam dispel "expunge"?
outer sky
You can to remove wound poison
expunge doesnt remove kingsbane for some reason
even though there's no reason why it shouldnt
nova jay
so expunge actually doesn't do much
outer sky
not really, it removes our MS and our slow but that gets reapplied passively pretty quickly
maybe worth in late dampening
nova jay
the problem is that sin rogue seems to just have 100% uptime, cleaves on anyone nearby
do I caut kingsbane as well? kb is a 1-min cd right
outer sky
do I caut kingsbane as well? kb is a 1-min cd right
kingsbane cant be cauted
its a poison
wary moss
Also how do people feel about playing remand?
Spamming out envenoms is pretty good
nova jay
so say I have a sin rogue, and a dk on the other team. Who should I focus? when do I consider going healer?
outer sky
you pretty much never go rogue
cloak+2 vanishes
makes him a bad target
go DK and swap healer on CDs
nova jay
but I should azure strike him occasionally to keep him slowed right
outer sky
but I should azure strike him occasionally to keep him slowed right
yeah thats fine
outer sky
Also how do people feel about playing remand?
Spamming out envenoms is pretty g...
its trash dont take it. hits for like 240k on beta even with reverb and people have like 8m hp
nova jay
are there any good pvp discords that are less class specific
outer sky
are there any good pvp discords that are less class specific
There's "World of PvP"
nova jay
when I join it and selects my class evoker isn't even on there lol
nova jay
wait, there's a second page lol
outer sky
there ya go
nova jay
wait I need to verify my identity via phone to talk in that disc?
are they gonna ask for Real ID next
outer sky
wait I need to verify my identity via phone to talk in that disc?
I dont remember having to do that
nova jay
when you have a shammy healer, how do you kite efficiently and stay in range of totems ?
wintry dew
Actually no idea as well
spring bough
sounds like they wanna time for DR the kidney
remember when you showed me TopTarget? i found out they have another addon called TopCombat
jolly sierra
remember when you showed me TopTarget? i found out they have another addon calle...
huh
tell me
spring bough
it reads details or does it through the addon itself and it highlights the top dps, damange and interrupter. does a couple of other highlights too
gonna test it out in solo BG now
potent pivot
ALERT
This just in, Rogue is not allowed to be good.
-# (Even Blizzard hates and resents us)
tranquil saddle
look how they massacred my boy
wintry dew
What have we done to deserve such foul treatment
jolly sierra
it reads details or does it through the addon itself and it highlights the top d...
interesting, lemme see later
potent pivot
outer sky
NOOOOOO
jolly sierra
DUDE
potent pivot
jolly sierra
THEY REALLY HATE US
outer sky
Any chance it goes back to 6s in pvp now?
potent pivot
highly doubtful
outer sky
That's a BIG nerf
halcyon timber
Ms as in time? Not sure what the cinnamon toast fk is the intention here
halcyon timber
Yeah highly doubt 6s. Aint no way that is ever returning.
potent pivot
how does kidney work
wdym
jolly sierra
wut
open thunder
is the stun duration in pvp different than in pve
jolly sierra
mister pvp guy person
jolly sierra
ye
karmic summit
If its 6 secs i kinda dig that
potent pivot
am i supposed to see that on a pvp dummy
think so ya
karmic summit
But highly doubt they made it clear that they didnt want cc
potent pivot
i got someone testing right now
outer sky
it's 1 sec per combo point
I think it's 2 seconds for the first combo point and 1 second for each additional with a maximum of 4. At least the tooltip on beta says "max 4 combo points"
potent pivot
in a duel
spring bough
did that shit just say 8s?
potent pivot
gimme a sec
terse pulsar
its 8 sec LOL
open thunder
did that shit just say 8s?
spring bough
LOL
lucid citrus
wtf lol
potent pivot
it won't be 8 on a player
open thunder
idk they changed base duration for some reason, while nerfing the cd
potent pivot
calm down
spring bough
id rather have 10s added to the CD to get an 8 second stun lol
halcyon timber
Some tom fkery is going on
spring bough
cant wait to see reddit cry about 8s rogue stuns in pvp lol
halcyon timber
X to doubt for pvp man. Something aint right.
open thunder
just saw a 5cp kidney do 5 seconds
which is the normal duration you guys always had or
potent pivot
which is the normal duration you guys always had or
it was nerfed to 5 in pvp
jolly sierra
im sure we can rid off the doubt w that
potent pivot
i just watched aeghis send a kidney in a duel
open thunder
so maybe pve can keep that 8s stun
open thunder
well did he logout
potent pivot
yes
terse pulsar
its 5 seconds on a pvp dummy too on live
so either they changed how it works vs dummies
or idk
open thunder
ok well anyway i gotta sleep, hope I will still have my 8s kidney tommorow when i wake up
dont disapoint me pvp people
outer sky
is there a pvp dummy in SW?
terse pulsar
yea on 79 62,.4
halcyon timber
Just valdrakky is updated no?
outer sky
yeah its 5s on a player if you spend 4CP
halcyon timber
Member when combat had 10s kidney shot back in the day boys?
lunar wigeon
hey guys whats the addon where the skills pic pops up when u press it
lunar wigeon
I need that addon
halcyon timber
hey guys whats the addon where the skills pic pops up when u press it
Sounds like a weak aura man
potent pivot
hey guys whats the addon where the skills pic pops up when u press it
idk one that makes it pop when you press it, only one that makes it pop when it comes off of cooldown
restive pine
tfu something
atomic adder
30 sec... oooooof
open thunder
atomic adder
trufi gcd
restive pine
ty
jolly sierra
wait
potent pivot
so is kidney still on global ya?
yes
halcyon timber
maybe he buffed the kidney?
Ye ol reptar roar
potent pivot
in one of those clips u had a dracthyr
huh
quaint cedar
what in the actual fuck is blizzard doing right now
I think rogue is cooked with 30 sec CD on kidney, that's actually crazy
halcyon timber
Its ok, take it out on your neighbor’s dry wall with a homemade cannon shooting boat anchors
potent pivot
I think rogue is cooked with 30 sec CD on kidney, that's actually crazy
it's not as bad as it seems, but it is weird
everyone's talking about how we have double vanish and 6s subt to cheap shot but that's like
halcyon timber
It will definitely enforce lining up cds more and not peeling as much
quaint cedar
idk that's pretty bad
halcyon timber
Oh cheapshot is next man
quaint cedar
Like maybe not so much for sub because you guys have infinite stealth uptime but for the other two specs?
Kidney might be my only stun for a while if I've burned both vanishes
halcyon timber
Stealth breaks to everything, vanish is short like old days etc . Rogues were smacked enough
atomic adder
we are cooked
halcyon timber
Allows for mongos to mongo more
Less defensively peeling “if needed”
Strange for sure
atomic adder
need 25% dmg buff to offset it
stoic spruce
Unnerf sting like a bee and I'll be fine.
halcyon timber
Need moron classes to use their cc and wear a baby bib so they don’t short circuit their keyboards from the baba
quaint cedar
Unnerf sting like a bee and I'll be fine.
That's kind of the problem though, we're always getting nerfs to our playstyle and then find some random little thing to cope with it.
Like why even do this at all? This is stupid. Just homogenizing us for no reason.
halcyon timber
Paying for killing spree sins in 2010
No change to maim though yeah?
Cyclone either?
quaint cedar
Doesn't seem like it
Seems like we're just going further into the mythic+ design for pvp
halcyon timber
Tartar sauce
quaint cedar
No more setups, no more strategy, just mash all your aoe shit and hope for the win
halcyon timber
Hale yeh brudder
quaint cedar
Really disappointing
quaint cedar
They better give us a lot of damage to compensate for this
halcyon timber
Its def a warlock psyop that finally passed their final bill against rogues
quaint cedar
But then it's just even more in the direction of mythic+ in arena
halcyon timber
We will still do what we do but yeah. Unga bunga was going to reign supreme either way
Even if we had slick cc and whatever, don’t forget they told us “rogues are dealing more damage than we would like them to be” and then buffed meatheads and wizards and kept nerfing us to be beep boop beep bop stun bot
quaint cedar
They should at least unnerf vanish stealth protection if they are going to keep this
We're going to be relying more on cheap shot now
halcyon timber
I dunno man, we just adapt and find a way as always. Windows and conditions are def going to be tighter.
restive pine
just pray mutt + aff is an S+ tier comp again and cruise 
outer sky
@potent pivot Permission to start dooming requested
lucid citrus
wait so is kidney off GCD?
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> Permission to start dooming requested
plzno
potent pivot
wait so is kidney off GCD?
no
lucid citrus
so what does teh duration changed from 1 sex to 0 ms mean?
potent pivot
so what does teh duration changed from 1 sex to 0 ms mean?
your guess is as good as mine
but it's not off GCD
100% guarantee that
lucid citrus
ahh okayy that would be insane if it was
outer sky
well
they nerfed stamina
on beta
people have about 750k less hp now
give or take
that might make kingsbane viable
most people have around 6.5m hp now
potent pivot
interesting
halcyon timber
yeah can confirm
They will probably revert plate nerfs on stamina though to keep them ahead naturally /shrug
potent pivot
Twitter
stoic spruce
Is 10 seconds that big a deal?
I mean 10 seconds is a long time
Sure
But my world isn't really on fire
cursive sonnet
from 3 every minute to 2
stoic spruce
Honestly I'm more upset with other things
Sucks for sure though. Don't get me wrong.
halcyon timber
Since they secretely tuned down stamina it should balance out a bit I guess
spring bough
finally started this shadowmourne quest for my DK cause im bored in que lol
spring bough
https://twitter.com/pikaboowow/status/1821360956112281790
i know bro is crying in his room
halcyon timber
no sir we are at 1s
Ultimately up to you
Rupture "can" do a lot depending on talents yes but generally eviscerate takes over.
grave basin
General
Spells (1)
Kidney Shot Finishing move that stuns the target. Lasts longer per combo point, up to 5:
1 point : 2 seconds
2 points: 3 seconds
3 points: 4 seconds
4 points: 5 seconds
5 points: 6 seconds
Cooldown changed from 20 sec cooldown to 30 sec cooldown
Rogue sisters
potent pivot
i know bro is crying in his room
.... what
grave basin
I love how they keep nerfing cc
halcyon timber
They did nerf stamina though
grave basin
They did
halcyon timber
as the silver lining
grave basin
Gouge got nerfed
potent pivot
halcyon timber
Sounding like a warlock atm
blink if they kidnapped you and performed a psyop
micro is war stomp
rogues rely on cc
tauren racial stomp is a war stomp
or bullrush
outer sky
Just did a lobby on beta using KB for the first time in a week. Not sure if I can rely on this data though because it looks like we have some healer diff
potent pivot
chill out
outer sky
Yeah, no. this aint it.
outer sky
I mean if removing gouge came with a dps bonus I'd be all for it. Its the CC i use the least by far mostly because I prefer to play with mages and gouge DRs their sheep. Plus it breaks on DoTs so its not even usable half the game. Most of the time I do press it is as a pseudo interrupt
Even if you play with a lock, if he's doing his job and dotting everyone gouge is pretty dog
grave basin
Gouge is good to pre someone as sub
Or get full cp during blades
I can see how it's super disruptive though
outer sky
why would you ever gouge for CP instead of shadowstrike or backstab?
halcyon timber
dance macabre stacks
halcyon timber
planning and stuff
yeah it is
being able to use kidney on a kill target instead of encouraged to kidney a healer is nice
grave basin
Remove duel if they're gonna remove anything
halcyon timber
Agreed
grave basin
Or make it to where you both can't attack
outer sky
being able to use kidney on a kill target instead of encouraged to kidney a heal...
I almost never kidney the healer and I nearly hit 2.8
halcyon timber
I almost never kidney the healer and I nearly hit 2.8
assassination things
grave basin
His damage was like 50% on rupture
outer sky
I think sub rupture actually ticks harder than assa rupture ironically
grave basin
Ya but it's mostly pad
outer sky
sub rupture was independantly buffed by 15%
grave basin
He's saying himself he's trying to pad as hard as he can
outer sky
Idk if I really agree with the whole concept of "pad" in arena. In BGs, sure because you don't need to kill the other team to win. But in arena any damage done is damage that either has to be healer or will contribute to a kill
halcyon timber
it's good to wear stuff down like 5 billion hp mage shields
outer sky
besides like, damage on pets
halcyon timber
always has been an important tool
grave basin
Feels like hp is just too high on beta
halcyon timber
Yeah the stamina changes will shift things around a little
grave basin
If they removed the stam bonus on the trinkets, pacing should be good
outer sky
Feels like hp is just too high on beta
it was nerfed today
grave basin
Oh?
halcyon timber
Dunno didn't star get popped for an +/- 8M chaos bolt the other day?
grave basin
outer sky
Dunno didn't star get popped for an +/- 8M chaos bolt the other day?
9m
but thats a bug exploit
halcyon timber
and Dk can seriously slam
ah right on
good for scumbag warlocks screeching fun detected like the ants that they are as usual
potent pivot
Idk if I really agree with the whole concept of "pad" in arena. In BGs, sure bec...
pad in arena is just ineffective dmg
atomic adder
I think frost DK was hitting one attack at like 5 million but I believe it got nerfed
potent pivot
it doesn't really do much in the grand scheme of things
halcyon timber
yeah Exterminate or whatever from the Soul frost reap tree thing
potent pivot
same goes for pet dmg, even though it might buff sin's dmg, it's essentially padding still
halcyon timber
whatever that they do now w the scythe attack
outer sky
it doesn't really do much in the grand scheme of things
I guess it depends on how you calculate your win condition. I've always played a very damp playstyle. So any damage that has to be healed is effective damage in my games
outer sky
I can't find this
idk but people have way less health
halcyon timber
Well when you're non dr'd rooted in place by mage / shaman rupture def helpls
grave basin
Interesting
halcyon timber
helps*
grave basin
How much hp you got now ?
halcyon timber
Yeah unnanounced change
outer sky
Iirc rogues were at 6.5m
rogues were at 7m. at least I was
grave basin
Now?
outer sky
now 6.35k
grave basin
6.35kk
halcyon timber
They will prob bump warlock absorbs up a little so they don't spread propaganda against melee as usual
and the mage absorb cut by 25% will prob get reverted too.
outer sky
everyone lost around 750k hp give or take
grave basin
Sounds reasonable for a first pass
Also glad they nerfed the flame strike build for fire mages
Absolutely stupid playstyle
halcyon timber
Yeah just unga bunga for harry potter kids
shadow priest buffs today were interesting too
halcyon timber
everyone lost around 750k hp give or take
that also means mage / warlock / shaman shields were also toned down a bit and Warrior Second wind (the enhanced version at low life no?) Doing hw atm or I would check. Those are % based healing / shield effects yeah?
Also makes me wonder if they are going to revert the nerf to life cocoon as well at this rate. That is also a buff against fighting friggin druids swamping around like shrek in bear form all day.
potent pivot
Also glad they nerfed the flame strike build for fire mages
i saw the other day that ring of fire was top dam
and pyros were doing like 150k
actually cursed
plucky escarp
do any DR addons work on beta?
outer sky
do any DR addons work on beta?
not that ive found
outer sky
Some good news for the day, though. I bought a new meat smoker yesterday and just tried it out. I'd say it does a damn good job
waxen meteor
Some good news for the day, though. I bought a new meat smoker yesterday and jus...
damn
It looks so good
Been coviding at home eating nothing, but this looks so nice
halcyon timber
That's deadly af. Hale yeh brudder.
grave basin
Gladiator's Distinction Increases your <Primary Stat> by 12% and your Stamina by 15%5% when in Arenas, Battlegrounds, and War Mode.
Effect #2 Apply Aura: Mod Stat - %: Modifies Damage/Healing Done
Value: 5
Item Set: Gladiator's Distinction: 2 pieces
Here it is
Nerfed from 15 to 5
stoic spruce
Based change
potent pivot
that's prolly why people on beta had less health after the hotfixes earlier today
jolly sierra
Some good news for the day, though. I bought a new meat smoker yesterday and jus...
damn looks tasty af
snow mesa
Anyone excited for soloq rbgs or is it going to be a massive flop
gusty hedge
Anyone excited for soloq rbgs or is it going to be a massive flop
dny think it will be a flop but. you can test out rn during prepatch. not too bad atm aside from the class differences. Do hope bit will be better balanced at start of new season
snow mesa
dny think it will be a flop but. you can test out rn during prepatch. not too ba...
I did not play s4 so can't really queue up for it
No PvP ilvl
gusty hedge
ahh i see.. you waiting to gear when tww drops?. could possibly get some of that dalaran prepatch event gear for the moment grab a few honor pieces and que up.
If playing rogue only decent spec rn is sin/sub. outlaw hits like a wet noodle
steel scarab
Got the Naga Pro v2 yesterday. $175. This is the way to go. The side buttons seem improved even beyond its predecessor. The tracking feels great compared to the Pro v1 I had, but that could be due to the v1 being 1.5 years old with a ton of miles under its belt.
The Aerox 9 felt super nice to use due to its exceptionally light weight, and the sensor tracked a tad better than the Razer one. However, the poor positioning and the low quality of the side buttons (membrane vs. tactile mechanical switches) were absolutely unforgivable for a mouse that cost $150.
surreal barn
That’s two and a half used g600
plucky escarp
Corsair Scimitar Elite gang rise up
warped gate
No PvP ilvl
Not stopping anyone else.
Literally had quadruple the HP of this one guy earlier.
snow mesa
ahh i see.. you waiting to gear when tww drops?. could possibly get some of that...
yeaah just waiting for the exp to start
cursive sonnet
Corsair Scimitar Elite gang rise up
Software was unusable to me, ugly paper weight.
narrow tangle
Got the Naga Pro v2 yesterday. $175. This is the way to go. The side buttons see...
do tons of side buttons are rly useful?
gusty hedge
do tons of side buttons are rly useful?
cursive sonnet
do tons of side buttons are rly useful?
if you dislike using multiple modifers yes. mouse thumb gets 12 buttons, I feel like most people can easily use 6-9 of them. I like using modifers on it rather than my keyboard
(shift + buttons)
narrow tangle
Im okay with shift+control+alt buttons
steel scarab
@narrow tangle incredibly useful, yes. Having 12 extra mouse buttons means I use shift, but not control or alt
cursive sonnet
<@362966828504317972> incredibly useful, yes. Having 12 extra mouse buttons mean...
thats what I do too
indigo hill
Not a fan of it but I got wide thumbs so I press multiple buttons at once. Think it's nice for thin fingered people.
wooden spire
Got the Naga Pro v2 yesterday. $175. This is the way to go. The side buttons see...
The side buttons eventually start fucking up, a few of mine have been starting to fail to register. But it’s been about 2 years so it’s not great but better than razer’s usual garbagio
nova viper
<@362966828504317972> incredibly useful, yes. Having 12 extra mouse buttons mean...
I use normal mouse
Logitech Wireless Pro
And it working
wooden spire
It’s actually kinda funny how shit all the mouse software is
steel scarab
@wooden spire unsurprisingly, this Naga is replacing my previous Naga. It lasted 1.5 years before the 4,5, and 6 keys stopped consistently working
wooden spire
Ghub, razor synapse, and icue are all fucking ass lmao
steel scarab
I think old Logitech stuff was amazing, but the new stuff doesn't impress me
And yes, all the software is absolute fucking garbage
wooden spire
<@192059095279337473> unsurprisingly, this Naga is replacing my previous Naga. I...
Ye, the naga just fits my hand the best tbh. But if I can get 2 years out of it, that’s a win. The naga pro is sick, I was hoping the optical switches would help with the fail rate and it didn’t 
But I will say the optical switches feel so good and responsive
steel scarab
That what I had, the Naga pro, and same issue. This is the Naga pro v2, which supposedly improved upon the optical switches
wooden spire
I’ll have to check out the v2
Cause the original naga pro lasted WAY longer than my naga trinity
steel scarab
Dude, the Aerox 9 I tried and returned has MEMBRANE buttons on the side. Comparatively horrible
wooden spire
I think my naga trinity died after 7 months lmao
steel scarab
My ORIGINAL Naga lasted like 5 years
They quite literally do not make things like they used to
steel scarab
Everything is made to break so you have to buy more
wooden spire
I had the collab mouse they did with Microsoft, the Habu? I think it was called. That mouse legit lasted me 6 years
warped gate
Yeah original razer was the best
This.
Was a brick shithouse.
And had fucking Back and Forward buttons on it.
wooden spire
They went giga downhill since sadly
warped gate
Why the hell do I have to pick between MMO buttons, or Back and Forward browser buttons?
wooden spire
FACTS
muted abyss
too many buttons, I would be fine with maybe a 4 side button mouse, but not 12
grave basin
takes a bit getting used to but it's peak keybind saver
plucky escarp
Software was unusable to me, ugly paper weight.
Software is horrid but you can do it once and save it to the mouse and never open it again.
The biggest selling point of Corsairs is that the mouse button pads can move up and down depending on how large your hands are.
I am a tall freak with giant hands. For reference I could palm a basketball in 7th grade lol. So, being able to adjust this is the only way for me.
potent pivot
Got the Naga Pro v2 yesterday. $175. This is the way to go. The side buttons see...
damn i'm kinda sad that the Aerox wasn't up to par, was going to give it a shot as well eventually
plucky escarp
I also didn’t like the Aerox. The buttons themselves feel really stiff and kind of indistinguishable from each other with your thumb
I know binds are really personal preference but my interest gets piqued when it gets chatted about. It’s just kind of amazing to me how different people are.
This is what I do, and I love it so much that I’ve tried to convert my friends when they think about going the arena 123 route (which is why I have this image lol). Basically each column of my mmo mouse is either arena 1, 2 or 3. So in my mind if I want to kidney arena1 it’s shift + m4. Sap arena 1 is shift m10.
muted abyss
well with bg shuffle, I'm probably never gonna touch arena so don't need that many keybinds lol
plucky escarp
Yeah I think the focus enjoyers will really thrive in a bg. I basically had to mod my Marcos to arena1, exists; @ target for everything. Which works fine but it isn’t as efficient as i am used to
jolly sierra
<@239851547935113216> dont sleep
SEXOOOOOOO
lucid citrus
@potent pivot did you ever get the beta? Lol
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> did you ever get the beta? Lol
nop but i've been trying to keep up with how things are looking
steel scarab
@potent pivot yeah it's beyond bad. You can't distinguish the buttons from each other whatsoever, which is forgivable because you'd eventually memorize the layout.
What is completely unforgiveable is making buttons 1,2,3 impossible to reach without moving your entire hand an inch up from the neutral position.
I was super pumped for the Aerox at first. It's astonishingly light and the form of the mouse is comfortable. The optical sensor in the mouse is amazing too.
That said, I have pretty large hands and I actually laughed out loud when I started testing the side buttons in wow. Like, clearly no one in R&D actually tried to use the side buttons when they created this mouse. They are beyond awful. Placement and button quality is 0/10.
potent pivot
looks like tuning hits prepatch on the 13th
Changes going live August 13th:
-Developer's note: We're intending to increase the impact of Kidney Shot in solo and dungeon content as its opportunity cost is higher than similar stuns due to costing combo points. In PvP, we feel the control Rogues bring relative to others has become problematic alongside new tools gained in Dragonflight and The War Within, so we're increasing its cooldown to bring it in line with similar abilities.```@open thunder
steel scarab
Can they fucking make it so if Kidney Shot is immuned or dodged that it doesn't spend energy, waste our Combo Points, AND put KS on cooldown then????
potent pivot
i mean
if you kidneying into a dodge mechanic that's sorta on you
you kinda should be punished for that
steel scarab
Losing energy, Combo Points, AND triggering a soon to be THIRTY SECOND cooldown is outrageous when in some cases you're being ridiculously punished simply because a DH decided to press Blur the exact millisecond you decided to press Kidney Shot
Let's be completely honest with ourselves
It's one thing if a Divine Shield has been up for 3 seconds and you try to Kidney Shot that paladin. It's another if the paladin happened to Divine Shield the second you Kidney
potent pivot
Losing energy, Combo Points, AND triggering a soon to be THIRTY SECOND cooldown ...
i mean that's the entire point
indigo hill
I think rogue is the only one that has spells with spender/builder cost.
potent pivot
if a DH blurs your kidney like that, that's exactly how the game should be
potent pivot
I think rogue is the only one that has spells with spender/builder cost.
it's not
indigo hill
Who else does it?>
potent pivot
when you say spells do you mean to say CC/stuns?
feral has combo points, and Maim is the same as kidney basically
monk has energy and combo points
steel scarab
I don't think that's healthy or fair design. If a mage tries to sheep a paladin who Divine shields it, they go oopsie, haha, better recast that poly. But see the difference in this case? There are two differences. One, the mage has a cast bar and the paladin dodged the ability using his foresight that the cast bar gave him. That's skill based. Two, the mage can just recast the poly.
If a demon hunter happens to cast blur the second a rogue kidneys, be real dude. That's a lot more luck than it is skill, and with this change it just means arena games are going to be decided by luck
indigo hill
Yeah but i mean our spells cost combo and energy. As a monk i tiger palm to build with energy and spend chi on other abilities.
potent pivot
I don't think that's healthy or fair design. If a mage tries to sheep a paladin ...
it's the same thing as a warrior bladestorming your stun, or you melding a stormbolt
these are very important mechanics to pvp
crimson bronze
I don't think that's healthy or fair design. If a mage tries to sheep a paladin ...
Do you think hoj cd should be reset if it gets faded by a priest or grounded by a shaman?
wintry dew
Do you think hoj cd should be reset if it gets faded by a priest or grounded by ...
not really no
steel scarab
Right, except now our stun cooldown time will be 66% longer.
So now we're going to be punished 66% more when this happens.
potent pivot
i don't think it matters
steel scarab
@crimson bronze are they increasing the cooldown of HOJ by 66% if so, paladins can complain too
crimson bronze
I’m not saying you can’t complain, I’m just saying picking polymorph was a weird example to compare with kidney
potent pivot
Yeah but i mean our spells cost combo and energy. As a monk i tiger palm to buil...
ok i see what you meant now, you mean like spending combo points AND energy on finishers
steel scarab
Okay, fair, HOJ is a more analogous example since they're both stuns
@potent pivot combo points, AND energy, AND a cooldown
lucid citrus
We have unlimited energy though.. energy is not an issue
potent pivot
i still stand by my opinion
open thunder
<@352916297262301194>
ye make sense
potent pivot
not being punished for making such a misplay, is NOT the way to go
grave basin
Storm, Earth, and Fire clones are now immune to all crowd control and their movement speed has been increased by 20%.
yo this is big
jolly sierra
## Changes going live August 13th:
AHHHH BUT FERAL W CYCLONES AND STUNS?
indigo hill
ok i see what you meant now, you mean like spending combo points AND energy on f...
Yeah that's what i meant.
steel scarab
@lucid citrus It's not unlimited. It is self limiting in the sense that your bar dictates how much you can do in a given timeframe. Have you never gone out of energy? Since the answer is obviously no, then it limits you
jolly sierra
FUCKERS
steel scarab
@potent pivot it's not a misplay when the defensive and your Kidney are both pressed within 0.3 ms of each other and, factoring in latency, the game decides theirs goes off first lol
potent pivot
<@629463378250956810> it's not a misplay when the defensive and your Kidney are ...
technically it's a misplay
the semantics doesn't matter
steel scarab
It's a misplay the player has no agency over, which is bad game design
potent pivot
what
chrome schooner
A good read by the enemy isn't necessarily a missplay on your part
potent pivot
misplay, counter, whatever
chrome schooner
It's just CD trading
Or do people think that only 5min CDs fit in there or something
potent pivot
the point is there is 0 chance you should not be punished for it
lucid citrus
<@176461498837762049> It's not unlimited. It is self limiting in the sense that ...
What do you mean? We have 200 energy and plus tea?
And i don’t think arenas is decided by luck when literally there is addons that can track everything so when a DH blurs, they know you’re going to press it
chrome schooner
Have you never pre feinted a stun back when Cheat Death wasn't the pick ?
Your enemy certainly didn't missplay by pressing the stun
You simply did good by pre feinting it
There is a difference
potent pivot
sure
wrong choice of words
but saying that you shouldn't be punished in that instance
steel scarab
We're already punished for it. We lose energy, combo points, and KS is put on cooldown. Now we're punished 66% more. That's my point. We are already punished
potent pivot
is just wrong
chrome schooner
In the end though this Kidney CD increase was a long time coming
steel scarab
This seems crazy excessive
chrome schooner
Although it is unfair that Maim doesn't follow
potent pivot
Although it is unfair that Maim doesn't follow
this i agree with
chrome schooner
Imo both Maim and Kidney should be 25s
steel scarab
Unless -- and I guess we'll see -- stuns will be insanely dangerous in the expansion?
jolly sierra
also is unfair cyclone is not nerfed w anything
chrome schooner
Somehow Kidney goes to 30s and is now 5s stun, Ferals have the exact same spell but ON TOP it deals initial damage, and it remains at 20s
Logic logic
jolly sierra
is a very disgusting CC
steel scarab
They just despise rogues because the playerbase despises rogues
steel scarab
Absolutely.
chrome schooner
Sub and Outlaw will have crazy stun window uptime
And Cheap is only 1s less than Kidney but generates ressource instead of spending it so you don't really want to Kidney when Cheaps are available
steel scarab
Cheap also can't be dodged
tawdry imp
the arcane dev explained their logic behind all their changes, will the rogue devs do something similar?
I don't understand the nerfs to the really small shitty healing abilities we have
tawdry imp
no but I still want to know what they're going for
chrome schooner
You could agree or disagree but in the end Kidney will be 30s so ...
steel scarab
Yes, if they said something to the effect of, "we noticed even below average rogues were winning disproportionate amounts of games" then, okay, sure, I could probably swallow that. But we all know what this actually is
tawdry imp
right or wrong I can see intent behind CC changes but I've never played rogue and thought "damn I have so much healing and armour"
steel scarab
Nerfs based on feelings
potent pivot
tawdry imp
as a below average rogue I feel attacked by these changes
potent pivot
they did say something
last jasper
Yes, if they said something to the effect of, "we noticed even below average rog...
you are gonna swallow it nonetheless
tawdry imp
yeah I guess right or wrong I understand intent behind CC changes but not behind the shitty healing talent changes
chrome schooner
It's also going to make gameplay super scripted
steel scarab
They did but they didn't address the feral equivalent, or, as panda said, the dreaded cyclone, which has been fun to play against uh... never?
lucid citrus
Is the new tools that we gained was the extra vanish?
chrome schooner
Every short CD is 30s or 1min
tawdry imp
if you play sub isn't the vanish change just a straight nerf
chrome schooner
No it doesn't change anything for sub
Still 2x Vanish still 2x Dance
Subterfuge buff
tawdry imp
I mean the vanish damage reduction duration
you already had two vanishes most of the time
quaint cedar
Sub still has infinite stealth uptime, I think these changes hit assa and outlaw the hardest
steel scarab
That's another question, what new tools are they talking about that we gained in DF?
And what new tools are we getting in TWW? I haven't tried the new trees but they all seem like completely passive damage buffs...? What are the new tools?
quaint cedar
It's not it's a nerf
Only 1 charge of Vanish cools down and benefits from CDR
We have less stealth windows, not more
chrome schooner
You reset Vanish faster than in 1min overall
wise breach
New tools gained in TWW? What new tools?
chrome schooner
Overall, you will get more stealth uptime
quaint cedar
But we don't have dance so it's a nerf
quaint cedar
Like I said, only 1 charge of vanish cools down at once
chrome schooner
I understood that by myself :p
Still
If IN THE END you still have more uptime due to CDR it will be a buff
potent pivot
@steel scarab @wise breach mostly shadowstep related stuff
chrome schooner
If not, a nerf
quaint cedar
It's not. You press vanish, it goes on 2 min CD. You press vanish again, now both are on CD. When you're spending CPs, only the one charge benefits from CDR, the 2nd charge is still cooling down by 2 minutes
chrome schooner
It comes/will come down to how quickly you are able to reset those vanishes
There are so many factors too
quaint cedar
How does that make any sense? We already have vanish, it's not a new button. The extra charge gives you one more vanish in the beginning, but once it has been used you're still only cooling down 1 vanish with CDR just like we always did
tawdry imp
is the 1.5s vanish change even in the game right now?
steel scarab
is the 1.5s vanish change even in the game right now?
Yes it is in the regular game atm
quaint cedar
And now we don't have dance which was a separate button with a 1 minute CD. I'm telling you, it's a nerf to stealth uptime
chrome schooner
Sometimes you wanted to keep a vanish to live and you attacked with dance, now if you keep that vanish to live and attack with the other you get it back before you'd get dance back etc etc
It's not dummy dmg over the 1st minute, which would certainly give dance the edge sure whatever
quaint cedar
But then if you hold 1 charge you're still only vanishing once and then waiting on that CD with no dance to rotate in
quaint cedar
No, of course not
tawdry imp
Yes it is in the regular game atm
ah yeah I guess the tooltip out of pve is always unhelpful 🙂 I noticed being pulled out of stealth by random bollocks AoE very quickly after prepatch
quaint cedar
But your claim was we would have more stealth windows, and that's not true
chrome schooner
No, of course not
And that reduces the impact of being 2 charges of the same spell by a lot
steel scarab
Yeah I am still frequently being pulled out of stealth and I can't figure out what's causing it. At first I thought it was the PvE bullion Cloak, but it's not that
chrome schooner
But your claim was we would have more stealth windows, and that's not true
In an actual game not on dummy simulator
...
It's a sterile conversation
Think what you like
quaint cedar
???
I've played outlaw on the beta and it is very noticeable how you have less stealth windows
I agree there is some added utility in having 2 charges that wasn't there before, but the uptime of stealth is decreased
I was arguing against your original claim, not whether 2 vanishes provides utility or not
chrome schooner
As I said, think what you like
quaint cedar
lol okay
indigo hill
They should have reworked that system imo. The stealth thing worked with shadow dance but now its a bit of a burden.
steel scarab
I think the most clear way to end this discussion is that, for Outlaw, it was definitely a nerf because they removed Nightstalker, so we all lost 10% damage in our stealth windows, so regardless what kind of stealth uptime we have, we're weaker.
For assassination, I DO think two vanishes feels better than Dance, but losing Nightstalker definitely hurt our killing power
potent pivot
there were buffs across the board which compensate that
wintry dew
As I said, think what you like
Have you been testing beta?
chrome schooner
For Assa having two vanishes is only better in match-ups you die into
steel scarab
@chrome schooner right. Because Dance has a 1 min cd and Vanish is 2 min
It's better defensively and way way worse offensively
chrome schooner
Vs other stuff you have less uptime by far, less garrotes, and also no way to deal big dmg with KB because no Nightstalker, no way to justify Badge, and also SOMEHOW Master Assassin is still 3s when every stealth based buff has gone to 6s
steel scarab
Yes, Master Assassin being 3 seconds makes literally 0 sense. I said this a couple weeks ago
chrome schooner
And MA worked fully during Dance so 6s every 60s, big value with Lethality, and now it's going to be 3s per Vanish, which is ridiculously low
chrome schooner
Have you been testing beta?
Only a bit, but I don't have much to say, it's useless to speculate too much when Blizzard is still making massive changes and will keep doing it until a couple weeks after launch
steel scarab
If MA is going to stay 3 seconds they should make it +50% crit
wintry dew
Only a bit, but I don't have much to say, it's useless to speculate too much whe...
Yeah i know... for weeks we've been typing on the pve counterpart channels "we don't know until tuning is done, and theres around 7weeks left for real tuning to happen"
steel scarab
Also, Twist the Knife needs a rework or some kind of change.
Also, Dashing Scoundrel is a boring pve talent that was overnerfed and could use a rework
Also, they need to unlink a lot of talents in our trees to give more meaningful choices
Or add more pathing options
steel scarab
It's dumb that I HAVE to take Poison Bomb if I wanna take Dragon Tempered Blades
It's dumb that I HAVE to take Scent of Blood if I wanna take Sudden Demise
wintry dew
Every other spec in the game has to make choices too
and scent of blood is actually extremely op
steel scarab
Scent of Blood is super good, I'm not saying it's bad, I just enjoy options
wintry dew
you have them
like every other spec in the game
the last time they gave us "options" was BFA, and you had to choose 1 out of 3 choices per talent row
and people complained that they wanted 2 / all of the choices
steel scarab
Okay, example of the illusion of choice due to poor tree design;
You can take Iron Wire if you want to Silence casters! Then they can't run from you! This also helps against melee and all classes really, because it also reduces their damage for 8 seconds.
Or you could pick
Intent to kill, which uh. Is literally the worse choice in every type of content imaginable
You could use Intent to Kill to chase casters? But it only reduces the cd of shadowstep by 10 seconds, AND it only does that if you already have a Garrote on them. Uh, you know what? It's probably just better to always take Iron Wire
Please defend Intent to Kill. What is it for?
potent pivot
iirc we used intent to kill in early DF
steel scarab
For what?
steel scarab
Right so wouldn't it be sensible to like
buff it?
Make it 50%
There
Now it's a real option
wise breach
It just shouldn't be on a choice node
steel scarab
I agree, absolutely
10000%, it's a fantastic utility node. Let us pick, damage or utility. I'd happily give up some damage to take Intent to Kill
indigo hill
Always nice when you have most points together with the DK in a Kotmogu rbg and the mage tells you to stop being afk while standing infront of an orb without picking it up.
jolly sierra
for me i just go to the orbs and stalk them to death
rog is an awful choice to pick an orb
ask him if he knows how to play the game
steel scarab
The tree should be meaningful choices. When it's all just damage options, people just run it through a calculator and say yup, these are clearly the best options. And then it's not choices anymore.
The talent tree is at its best when the nodes are balanced enough that you get to buff how you want your damage buffed. Do you want fat Envenoms, or do you want big Mutilates? Do you want +100% crit in Stealth and for 3 seconds after leaving Stealth, or do you want just a flat +6% passive crit? Choices like that are more fun and feel meaningful.
Utility nodes shouldn't be two shared utility options, they should be sprinkled throughout the tree and you have the option to skip them or to take them and skip damage nodes
indigo hill
rog is an awful choice to pick an orb
I know but no one else except the DK was picking them up. We lost a game we could easily win.
steel scarab
But the key to all of the above is making the nodes interesting enough that you feel them during gameplay. A great example is Vicious Venoms, that's such a creative talent. Unfortunately, by giving Mut/Ambush an increased energy cost, it ends up making us energy starved, and the increased damage doesn't feel good enough to use to make up for the downside of the increased energy cost.
They could easily increase the damage of VV and give it a fun splashy poison animation and it would be way, way better
jolly sierra
I know but no one else except the DK was picking them up. We lost a game we coul...
bruh
steel scarab
I mean ffs, it's a 2 point node 3/4 the way down the tree, buff that shit and give our builders a cool venomous animation
Assassination is supposed to be the "frontloaded" tree, right? And sub is the "finisher" tree, and Outlaw is the "sustained damage" tree. Wouldn't VV making our builders hit 150% harder give sin a good optional identity?
For some reason Outlaw uses Ambush more than we do, that's how fucked up our trees are
wintry dew
Assassination is supposed to be the "frontloaded" tree, right? And sub is the "f...
i mean, we are ALMOST using VV as a recommended tree ST
(PVE)
dropping improved garrote xD
steel scarab
Lol
Then it's ALMOST buffed to a reasonable level, but it obviously needs more work
wintry dew
not buffed
bug fixed some stuff
it still does not interact with either mastery or shiv
cant recall
steel scarab
It should absolutely interact with both, obviously
wintry dew
but it doesnt
oh it seems it is Zoldyck that does not interact with it
that got fixed
now only shiv remains to interact with it
chrome schooner
I saw they also nerfed Gouge duration in PvP and increased the CD
Maybe they think the last 2 seasons weren't enough PvE inside the arena
wintry dew
yeah we gotta M+ pve even more now
steel scarab
Crazy
tranquil saddle
"In PvP, we feel the control Rogues bring relative to others has become problematic alongside new tools gained in Dragonflight and The War Within, so we're increasing its cooldown to bring it in line with similar abilities."
they got me with the "relative to others"
indigo hill
Cyclone still the same?
sterile field
Cheap shot spam is too high with 2 dances 2 vanishes and subterfuge at 6 seconds, nah lets nerf gouge lol
potent pivot
Changes going live August 13th
steep loom
wouldnt it be nice if they made airborne irritant also not break with damage. all these nerfs to gouge i'll probably end up goofing around with it. esp as an outlaw trickster. super low cd on blind
potent pivot
i feel like airborn is better used as just a damage reduction honestly
along with blackjack
steep loom
what is the duration in pvp on airborn?
potent pivot
it's the same as pve no?
70% reduced duration from blind
so it's whatever 70% of pvp blind is
potent pivot
hows outlaw looking in tww
looks fine so far
steep loom
i think airborn in pvp is like ~2seconds? lol
vivid pond
looks fine so far
how do you burst without shadowdance
potent pivot
how do you burst without shadowdance
outlaw isn't really about burst
vivid pond
or is crackshot not being played anymore
ok then in that case
how do you use
without shadowdance
potent pivot
with subterfuge
steep loom
you use it with subterfuge
vivid pond
so you spend vanish on it?
steep loom
if anything the change they made actually helped outlaw with its "burst" if you wanna call it that
vivid pond
it did?
steep loom
so just pay attention to your charges
vivid pond
so just pay attention to your charges
so how often do you spend a vanish to do crackshot
chrome schooner
every go that you have it if you don't need it to survive very soon
just as you would with dance before, only you never needed dance to survive so you'd just use it
steep loom
what he said