that until we got a dagger
#pvp
hasty holly
they start selling the new pvp gear next week right?
i’m pumped for the new set, s1’s appearance was kinda meh
spring bough
just the bloody token gear everything else on tuesday
jolly sierra
btw
the cloak talent is absurd
is very good in random stuff
but i have my doubts if it will be dropped over smoke bomb
tribal badger
as outlaw i feel like i have soooo many defensives with the cloak talent now tbh
and also ur not giving up anything really op as law
since u cant move anymore with sprint talent necked anyway
tribal badger
at least outlaw has it decent into root comps
2 low cd root breaks
3 with cloak i guess
graceful ravine
but i have my doubts if it will be dropped over smoke bomb
i think enemy's fear of smoke bomb is greater than the use of smoke bomb itself
esp as outlaw
alot of ppl in shuffles will trinket smoke bomb automatically
tribal badger
thats literally my primary usage of it
the number of games ive won directly in a bomb last season i can probably count on one hand
now the number of games i won because 1-2 people trinketed as soon as i pressed bomb?
manymany
graceful ravine
lucid citrus
Crossing fingers for buffs
jolly sierra
i think enemy's fear of smoke bomb is greater than the use of smoke bomb itself
fair enough, using cloak talent when i face monks and ferals then
switching disarm
tribal badger
wonder how enhance is lookin for next season
they got some interesting new toys
namely the immunity and the heal thing
graceful ravine
yea
jolly sierra
if is the case why u have 2 daggers in B tier from raid?
tribal badger
ya idk why he used a different indicator
jolly sierra
that is the point lol
tribal badger
but sin is the C tier m+ one
graceful ravine
left is M+, right is raid
graceful ravine
oh you mean the icon lol
tribal badger
might be a season to try out enhance over ele in pvp, looks like it could be decent
jolly sierra
yeah the icon
tribal badger
altho its also a caster season and ele also got cool new toys
tribal badger
turbo season tho
use ur totem to bring the casters back to ur arms
so he can clapa the mtho
tribal badger
this talent is wild tho
basically less frontloaded healing but its all free now
and this thing is sooooooooooooooooooooo fun
I dont think u can even see the shamans frames or hp bar when u burrow
potent pivot
diglet in wow 
tribal badger
the only way to tellwhere they are is to follow the ground effects
which is quite hard to see in bgs
i love it
get out of jail free card on my ele
tribal badger
if its a wizards season it might be a enhance climbing angle over my arms tbh
shaman got so much fun stuffs for pvp this expc
spring bough
if i were to somehow hit elite, im guessing no achievement but i should still be able to buy the elite wep appearances right
tribal badger
no idea tbh
candid condor
Pokemontalk 
potent pivot
Pokemontalk <:POGGERS:661023173227053056>
wintry dew
You can't see assassination because they are stealthed
surreal barn
Debating on that offhand sword with tokens
graceful ravine
what spec gets this?
graceful ravine
crazy
spring bough
isnt there another talent that inc by 50% if used from stealth?
narrow tangle
nope
tribal badger
wasnt that talent pvp moded down to 30%
a long time ago
maybe tooltip is just finally reflecting pvp mod?
tribal badger
👍
jolly sierra
i got a lot of ppl whining in my ret for the azure span wq
i need coins u know lol
1 called me Sanguino trash
so i reported him and killed him later
waxen meteor
So homies what should I do after finishing main chapters on new area
surreal barn
If you have a marks hunter sit back and just destroy in ashran
It’s comical how much damage you do
spring bough
i cant compute why the s2 pvp tabard isnt the same color scheme as the elite gear. dont they usually try to match the colors or nah
jolly sierra
nah
jolly sierra
spring bough
i know its pre season but at 2250 and get stuck with a 1300 resto sham. talk about getting boned
steep loom
anyone else find it really annoying that u have to reapply poisons again? for leeching
jolly sierra
waxen meteor
lol
floral meadow
I'm a newbie rogue which returned to wow 8 weeks ago. After leveling up and while i've played assa to 1,1k mmr. Now i've read that sub rogue might be viable in 10.1 and i want to check it out.
Can anyone recommend a video/tutorial how to play sub rogue?
light estuary
what's the rotation when using rotten? it's been a long time since i played it
potent pivot
Can anyone recommend a video/tutorial how to play sub rogue?
you can check out pikaboo or someone on youtube, or check out streamers on twitch like pikaboo, palumor, kalvish. just be careful with youtube, videos go out of date rather quickly so you may not want to follow their talent builds, but the overall playstyle will be very similar.
floral meadow
thanks @potent pivot
long shore
anyone personal resource display not showing combo points for rogues? is there a fix for it?
stone oriole
Is “the rotten+sec tech” build better now or is the eviscerate focused one still the best?
minor relic
morning
harsh steppe
morning
wary spire
"Morning"? Lucky bastards.
harsh steppe
ahaha
minor relic
Gooood morning people
silly question maybe, but why do people have 540K+ health in arena now ?
tribal badger
silly question maybe, but why do people have 540K+ health in arena now ?
They buffed stamina + new pvp gear
harsh steppe
i thought the new pvp gear wasn't out until next week?
vocal surge
harsh steppe
so do i get full wpvp gear?
harsh steppe
no i meant, how do i know what wpvp gear i'll be keeping vs. dropping for conq gear later?
wary spire
Probably gonna drop all of it. 
harsh steppe
well that sucks
floral meadow
@harsh steppe
farm 12-15k honor
sell everything next week
buy 100% honor gear
done
15k honor takes mabye 3-5h? max?
depends on you luck on wins
harsh steppe
i was told all honor/conq gets reset w/ each new season, so i already spent it all to resell to a vendor for gold... are you kidding me rn
harsh steppe
fml
floral meadow
conq will ofc reset
wintry dew
Hyper you can easily farm it all back
Even without the new gear you'll be able to stomp on noobs
And wpvp gear can be used to replace slots that have no desired stats
Exactly like we did in s1
wintry dew
I believe that even if it reseted there would be a work around, by buying a lot of honor gear B4 reset and then reselling for the honor value, i believe this as worked before
tribal badger
idk when the last time they reset honor was so that would surprise me but maybe
either way i have 15k honor sitting on all my toons and with soloq existing honor isnt hard to come by so im not worried
surreal barn
If they do reset honor we will have a week of damn good battlegrounds
wintry dew
Truuuue
surreal barn
Which I’m okay with lol
terse flower
Is Sec Tec being weird on target dummies? Its only doing 75K for me.
chrome schooner
Details doesn't show the damage done by your two shadow clones, so you only see your own physical hit
But there are in fact two more shadow hits done by copies of you; so the actual damage you deal is more than 3x what you saw
1x what you saw by you, +2x what you saw by your shadow clones, but since it deals shadow damage and ignores armor, it's actually a bit higher even
I hit some Hunter 300k yesterday with that
terse flower
Oh. Nice. Was worried lol
floral meadow
can someone help me with a simple Shadowstep + Kick macro?
I'm trying:
/cast Shadowstep
/cast Kick
but this does not work. Also castsequence does not work
tribal badger
that should work, you might need to mash it for it to go off though because the game might not register you in range of the target when u press it for the initial kick
it tries to use both abiliites at once so it will try to kick before you've appeared
pale storm
this is my focus step kick, so just take out the [@focus] parts
#showtooltip Kick
/cleartarget
/cast [@focus] Shadowstep
/cast [@focus] Kick
/targetlasttarget
floral meadow
thx
tribal badger
that will not work for a shadowstep macro designed to step kick ur current target
cause ur having it cleartarget lol
potent pivot
i was told all honor/conq gets reset w/ each new season, so i already spent it a...
Yeah idk why people get this idea in their heads, but honor hasn’t reset in years
potent pivot
Oh. Nice. Was worried lol
There’s also a way to fix your Details if you check the pins in #subtlety
tribal badger
I think people are just wondering because i dont remember the last time a season update gave us new honor gear higher ilvl then previous seasons conq
so there was never a reason to reset honor
it really depends on if blizz wants us all to login on tuesday and fully upgrade to 437 pvp ilvl
without any delay
potent pivot
Did honor reset when DF launched
tribal badger
good question, I dont remember but I do remember hitting max level with no honor for gear
and I pvp alot so that woulda been strange
potent pivot
Gaining 3 ilvl on most pieces doesn’t seem like a big enough deal to time-gate it
tribal badger
i feel like it did?
well I mean its 3 ilvls if ur nonstop sweating out bloody tokens this week but yea for sure
potent pivot
Yeah
tribal badger
i dont think it will personally, cause I think it would have this week
so we had a week to grind honor anyway
potent pivot
I don’t think it’ll reset
tribal badger
nah i doubt it resets next week i just wouldnt put it past them
if it was gunna happen, it shoulda happened last reset when 10.1 dropped
potent pivot
i dont think it will personally, cause I think it would have this week
Exactly my thoughts ye
tribal badger
and then u have a week to farm honor for new season
potent pivot
Is “the rotten+sec tech” build better now or is the eviscerate focused one still...
They’re both good atm
Not much has really changed since s1 besides the buffs we got to some abilities and everyone’s health pools
Once we get 2P, Rotten may be the best choice
untold remnant
Fire mage buff indirect rogue buff? Fire feels really good now
Will 2 set give you the rotten buff everytime you enter dance? SO you can do 2 big stacked strikes?
sinful ingot
what specs will be best/viable/mostfun?
thick slate
You guys used 1 shadowflame spark and 1 trophy of conquest to make the pvp boots 450?
wicked rampart
I'm not sending any sparks/trophies until we have a better idea what embellishments are looking good this season tbh
But I'm also raiding so I'm going to have a more limited supply of sparks than pvp only people
jolly sierra
tbh i just bought malicia gear for bracers, cloak and belt cuz i know it can be easily replaced for now
but not the tier yet, until we get honor gear
cuz is 50% nerfed in pvp already
thick slate
I see, thanks lads
pallid rune
if tuning for rogue pvp stays like it is right now, what spec yall think will be the best in shuffle? sub?
tawny kestrel
You guys used 1 shadowflame spark and 1 trophy of conquest to make the pvp boots...
why do u want to make the boots?
wanton breach
if tuning for rogue pvp stays like it is right now, what spec yall think will be...
probably arms
sinful ingot
I'm not sending any sparks/trophies until we have a better idea what embellishme...
peak pvp: wait for others to make mistakes with limited resources and then learn from that to get ahead.
wintry dew
If it works it works
graceful ravine
if tuning for rogue pvp stays like it is right now, what spec yall think will be...
enhance is apparently S+ tier rn
tribal badger
would not surprise me at all
they got some spicy new pvp toys
and they r a pretty decent melee into casters
lots of anti ranged utility
hard to kite
potent pivot
Fire mage buff indirect rogue buff? Fire feels really good now
Not really no
Rmp will never really be the same after cc nerfs
jolly sierra
ret stayed abnormally well after the rework and all those nerfs
pallid rune
I meant to ask what rogue spec y’all think would be best haha
jolly sierra
i was laughing a lot yesterday 1 shotting ppl in the azure span WQ
wicked rampart
peak pvp: wait for others to make mistakes with limited resources and then learn...
To be fair a lot of the others doing that usually have multiple rogues so it's significantly less detrimental for them
tawny kestrel
Rmp will never really be the same after cc nerfs
the cc nerfs arent that bad
tribal badger
nah they arent but rmp had already fallen off fairly bigly this expac hadnt they
surely the cc nerfs doesnt do that comp any favors
altho mage got a weird like side cc upgrade with the polymorph talent
being able to rotate polys on low players is a new thing
potent pivot
the cc nerfs arent that bad
I know they’re not that bad, when I say it won’t ever be the same I don’t mean like doomer talk of “it’ll never be good again”
I just don’t think the proper set up style gameplay of RM and RMP will play quite the same anymore
tawny kestrel
yeah thats kinda true i guess
potent pivot
I meant to ask what rogue spec y’all think would be best haha
I think everyone was just meme-ing, but I wouldn’t really ever say there’s a “best spec”. All 3 specs are viable in their own way, I’d just play whichever specs you enjoy.
potent pivot
Both outlaw and sub feel a bit better after the buffs
Assassination is well.. it’s assassination.
obsidian moon
does anyone know why my hp is so low when i have bis gear from last patch?
potent pivot
does anyone know why my hp is so low when i have bis gear from last patch?
Have you started buying the new wpvp gear?
tribal badger
because u havent gotten new gear probably
jolly sierra
do u recall when they added mass poly talent and everyone was dooming?
obsidian moon
because u havent gotten new gear probably
what new gear
jolly sierra
what happened then?
nothing
obsidian moon
kekw
jolly sierra
only thing can tell us truth in meta is being there in that moment
tribal badger
bloody token gear
fading blade
So is conquest getting reset? But get to keep the tokens/honor right?
obsidian moon
the guy in my party is full crimson gear
with 50k more hp than me
is it cus i have some drakebreaker
or what
tribal badger
well priests just have more hp natty then rogue im pretty sure
potent pivot
So
graceful ravine
what item an i supposed to craft as outlaw
jolly sierra
nothing yet
sharp sierra
what item an i supposed to craft as outlaw
Think you’re supposed to respec
pallid rune
I think everyone was just meme-ing, but I wouldn’t really ever say there’s a “be...
Nah bro, that’s some pve thinking hahaha pvp you gotta play the best spec
But yea I played assa last season. I just go for 1800 on rogue
So was wondering what spec id go for now to start gearing
Maybe I’ll try to learn sub
graceful ravine
im not feeling the dampen meta just yet... played a few shuffles in the 2.1 range as outlaw and most games under 1 min still
wtf did they remove the scoreboarfd
pale storm
did anyone confirm whether or not you only have to do the main story questl ine once?
jolly sierra
according to wowhead if u already finished chapter 2 u can go straight there w ur alt
sinful ingot
I think everyone was just meme-ing, but I wouldn’t really ever say there’s a “be...
which one is better for brain-damaged warriors looking to fool around in leather on a friday night?
asking for a friend
nova viper
xD Rouge is playable?
waxen meteor
according to wowhead if u already finished chapter 2 u can go straight there w u...
i still havne't finished chapter 4 yet -.-
so we got new gear after chapter 4 for pvp?
and it also means each alt needs to do chapter 3-4 still?
potent pivot
Nah bro, that’s some pve thinking hahaha pvp you gotta play the best spec
That’s not true at all
Bad way of thinking imo
potent pivot
xD Rouge is playable?
Yep
potent pivot
which one is better for brain-damaged warriors looking to fool around in leather...
If you’re used to warr, outlaw has the most similar playstyle in a way
sinful ingot
in what way are they similar?
verbal elm
Quick question that's probably been answered already: is there really no Bloody Tokens dagger available for purchase?
lucid citrus
Nope
verbal elm
Amazing. That tracks.
potent pivot
in what way are they similar?
Similar to Fury I should say. It’s just very spammy and high APM, very easy dps rotation with procs that spice it up a little.
sinful ingot
ah, that sounds right up my alley
potent pivot
It’s a really fun spec
A little zugzug by nature
Low-ish skill floor, very high skill ceiling
High uptime = more CDR
sinful ingot
I mean I barely hit 1800 ever on anything so as long as I'm not literally crippled when playing I doubt the ceiling will matter
potent pivot
Understandable
waxen meteor
is blood token gear higher item level than honor gear next week?
sinful ingot
no
it's 3 below iirc
You'll want it primarily for strife upgrades and for secondary stats
spring bough
decking out in honor gear on tuesday got 15k to spend lol
agile leaf
should i be spending my conquest if its getting reset?
spring bough
could deck an alt out with boxes thats what i did
waxen meteor
God, Salandria is so cute
potent pivot
should i be spending my conquest if its getting reset?
Yes
Either buy boxes for alts or buy gear and vendor it for gold
agile leaf
which boxes for alts?
potent pivot
You can buy conquest boxes that are acc wide
Then you mail the boxes to your alt
And open them on your alt for gear pieces
agile leaf
does conquest dissapear or turn into another currency?
potent pivot
Typically turns into gold iirc
agile leaf
what about honor, do i want to be capped? or spend it on marks
potent pivot
You want to be capped yeah
pale storm
I believe belt and bracers will be BiS again due to stat, possibly gloves, you can grab the high mastery cloak also - can also grab the obsidian glad vers/mastery ring and shoulders if you never crafted in s1
Obsidian combatant sorry the green crafted gear is same ilvl as conquest gear from s1 - so you can get more mastery/vers
light estuary
what specs are looking good for sub this season? rotten or dark brew?
potent pivot
what specs are looking good for sub this season? rotten or dark brew?
both look fine atm
agile leaf
roughly how many bloody tokens are needed?
jolly sierra
i still havne't finished chapter 4 yet -.-
nah, i just did chapter 2 and was allowed to do the quest w main
after that u just mount up w alt and go to zaralek
light estuary
do we need to craft anything as rogue this week? i just got my [Spark of Shadowflame] and the 2 trophies
agile leaf
do you have to do the campaign to get those?
i did the story on my main, not my rogue
jolly sierra
I believe belt and bracers will be BiS again due to stat, possibly gloves, you c...
you can craft stuff w pvp ilvl later in season
doesnt count as embelishment
oh look
waxen meteor
graceful ravine
pray for buffs on tuesday
fading blade
nah bro its over
tribal badger
you can craft stuff w pvp ilvl later in season
realz confirmed this was just to the extra procs fwiw
graceful ravine
Buffs are out
4% for sub boys
nothing for outlaw
40% crit dmg for sub 4 set
Sub could be good now imo
vague summit
sub buffs !
jolly sierra
realz confirmed this was just to the extra procs fwiw
the what
fading blade
im still hoping the blind is an april fools joke
tribal badger
these shadowstrike procs
didnt benifit from lethality
thats all that was fixed
it wasnt all shadowstrikes
fading blade
revert rogue blind sap changes
waxen meteor
Subtlety
Aberrus, the Shadowed Crucible: 4-Set Bonus now causes Symbols of Death to increase the critical strike damage of Eviscerate and Black Powder by 40% (was 25%).
btw, homies, after finishing chapter 4 and all missions, what do i do?
farm blood coin and nothing?
fading blade
Tier nerfed 50% but 20% with good stats on pieces
jolly sierra
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/226359213427916800/1104213609371934841/Sc...
ah, it says assassination above
so i was confused af
proper heath
How’s PvP guys it’s been a while
proper heath
Anything new ? What’s the Meta
jolly sierra
not rogue clearly
jolly sierra
maybe for a couple of weeks
ppl is already whining for its dmg in pvp
so don't expect too much
im hiding in rbgs for now, tell me how is SS as rog next week, gl
fading blade
rbg perma base sitter
jolly sierra
yep
agile leaf
damn i lost all my trophy of strifes
waxen meteor
dh buff is just alright
light estuary
Will people still want a rogue for rbg teams?
simple crest
another rogue and i disarmed each other. now we're just standing here slapping one another
potent pivot
that's mostly a pve thing
minor cape
ahhh allright
potent pivot
certain talents were amping ALL shadow school damage
like from trinkets, items, enchants, embellishments, etc
potent pivot
the base logic for class abilities and talents is that they should not interact with items or effects on gear at all
minor cape
100%
potent pivot
there's a few things that haven't been following that rule
so they're going through and fixing them
also, the outlaw tier set fix should act as a direct buff to outlaw i think
pretty sure outlaw will run 4p
potent pivot
yeah i mean +20% crit on evis
potent pivot
you can't really say even if stats are bad that losing ~X% mastery can really compete
minor cape
you can't really say even if stats are bad that losing ~X% mastery can really co...
well lets pray its good
🤪
potent pivot
white gazelle
without additional changes it looks like turbo season
Feels good
light estuary
what are we using our spark of shadowflame on? the boots?
graceful ravine
i wonder how aids 3v3 will be in s2
considering it was absolute aids in s1 for a solid 3+ months
there will be more inflation at the start but also smaller playerbase so it might cancel each other out
potent pivot
what are we using our spark of shadowflame on? the boots?
will know more next week
light estuary
are yall saving up your sparks for now?
minor cape
how do we get spark of shadowflame? i kinda still dont understand
you have to do pvp quest?
potent pivot
campaign
minor cape
yeah, i got to the quest "acquire spark of shadowflame" or smth
potent pivot
ye you just do the available campaign
potent pivot
so world quests?
minor cape
thanks 🙏
potent pivot
np
potent pivot
for rn yeah
there will likely be a replacement weekly starting next week
that's my assumption anyway
also you want to queue some type of pvp and win to get a box
and the box should drop a quest item
so you can get your first conquest trophy thing
(the item that you can use to upgrade any crafted item into a 450 pvp ilvl scaling item)
scarlet shell
oh cool 4% dam on all abilities
minor cape
they might just decide to not actually fix nighstalker rn
because sub is now absolutely allright
cursive solar
Kinda new to outlaw, what stats are we going for in season 2? pvp ofc
cursive solar
wowhead says vers, mastery
icy veins says Vers, crit
jolly sierra
why is there just a 1.8 speed sword on the bloody token vendor
maybe that is the fkn dagger they take from us
wary spire
they might just decide to not actually fix nighstalker rn
That'd be funny.
minor cape
wowhead says vers, mastery
icy veins says Vers, crit
we dont know yet
last season it was vers crit 100%
this season noone is really sure
cursive solar
cheers man!
wanton breach
go sleep and if you wake up go right back to sleep
jolly sierra
not today, need to go to work
wise breach
You don't have to do campaign to get your spark on alts, any of the PvP weeklies will complete it too
jolly sierra
i said since yesterday u can go straight to the cave w alts and accept the big quest there
then u can do the pvp one
surreal barn
Had a blast in SS this past season, didn’t have to find an arena partner for my weird ass schedule
Then… the paladins happened
untold remnant
they might just decide to not actually fix nighstalker rn
That would be dumb
spring bough
just hit 50k dps against a DK and ret. feeling godly lol
did flurry get buffed? cause its doing a whole hell of a lot of dps
details is saying it crit too lool
spice harness
did flurry get buffed? cause its doing a whole hell of a lot of dps
are you playing crit still ?
spring bough
i picked up some of the new bloody token gear with haste/vers and vers/mastery but still at 30 crit, 30 vers, and now at 22 mastery
wise breach
So I'm testing out Gathering Storm, pretty sure this thing is awful
scarlet shell
that new embellishment?
lmao people selling it for 20,000 g in my AH
like i am a fool
wise breach
It's because one of the mats is only available from a daily transmute
that alone sells for 17k on my server
jolly sierra
which one? the melee pvp one?
tested that bullshit in a duel in ptr
was just bad, took like 30 seconds to get full stacks and just hit for like 34k
fkn joke
spring bough
damn max double hit for ambush clocked in at 97k crit. thats pretty awesome lol
88k for two normal hits at the same time lol
spring bough
OL all the way sounds like they fixed the tier set bonuses finally
jolly sierra
im going ret for push in early weeks tho
the other chars but the rog just to cap chest
twin burrow
So subs getting 4percent. but trickz said nightstalker still bugged. Is this confirmed still bugged @potent pivot
nova hill
When bursting as sin:
Deathmark then exsanguinate or other way round?
jolly sierra
exsang then deathmark
nova hill
Thank you very much
twin burrow
scary af to think im gonna have 8% more in my go
ty blizzard
and another 4% baseline tuesday XD
jolly sierra
gl, enjoy the bloodshed, it wont stay for too much time
potent pivot
is nightstalker rlly not working for sub
It only buffs shadowstrike currently iirc
tribal badger
even with the notes announcing it ws fixed in 10.1?
cause they fixed it for outlaw
id be surprised if they left it broken for sub
potent pivot
And iirc it isn’t snap shotting rupture or any of sins dots
It’s definitely still broken
tribal badger
guess they just fixed it for outlaw
potent pivot
I’m not 100% sure about outlaw
tribal badger
i tested it yesterday to make sure
its functioning normally
only tested it on ambush and SS tho
potent pivot
But if the pve CFs say it’s fully fixed I’d believe it
tribal badger
cause i cba testing every single ability
tribal badger
before they broke it it was only working on ambush so, if its working ss now i'd expect its working on everything
potent pivot
i don't assume anything when it comes to bug fixes in this game :d
tribal badger
that being said if they do fix it for sub then idk how much of a buff it will be
isnt it currently giving shadowstrike 50%
i imagine if they fix it itll go down to 8% for shadowstrike
and 8% for everything else
thats what the ydid for law (used to give ambush 50% also)
tribal badger
ah ok that might have been an older bug along with ambush
i remember reading that in here
potent pivot
yes
potent pivot
when they bug fixed the 50% they broke the ability entirely
that's why it hasn't been working correctly for most abilities
tribal badger
well idk about sub but for law it was only giving ambush +50% and not impacting any other spells when the expac launched
and then they removed the ambush +50%
so it just did nothing for the whole patch
jolly sierra
smol indie company
tribal badger
I imagine they broke snapshotting when they made it a 3 spec talent prob
the old talent tree one used to snapshot I know
potent pivot
naw
tribal badger
I think they gave us some old jank version of nightstalker tho
which is why it had the old +50% damage to ambush mod on it
potent pivot
they expressly took the snap shotting out because they wanted to get rid of it
but now afaik they want to bring it back
tribal badger
why would they want to remove it we've had it forever lol
even last expac sin could snapshot with it
potent pivot
unintuitive game design is my theory
but without it the entire right side of the class tree is dog shit for sin
considering dots ignore FW and FW is jank in and of itself
pretty sure FW doesn't buff shadowstrike correctly
tribal badger
that would be funny considering subs had FW the longest yea
they just gave law and sin access to it this expac
just blizz things
potent pivot
yeah it just hardly does anything for sin especially
tribal badger
yea sin doesnt really care about armor
potent pivot
only helps your mut and env
tribal badger
none of ur direct damage physical abilities do anything
chrome schooner
doesn't even help env
potent pivot
oof
tribal badger
envenoms nature damage
chrome schooner
literally only mut, ambush and autos
tribal badger
doesnt even impact it
potent pivot
potent pivot
the right side of class tree is just
tribal badger
fr
potent pivot
completely borked
tribal badger
meanwhile its like an 8% dps node for law
because their entire damage budget is physical
potent pivot
tribal badger
sub also got a lot more shadow damage in their budget this expac which reduces its value
tribal badger
outlaw has a way to stop restealthers now
it just cost us gouge
🥹
actually they heavily changed the set yesterday when the bugfixed it
i wonder if they fixed that
potent pivot
wdym
tribal badger
the 2set wouldnty get removed by anything
blind, gouge
it would just break them insta
potent pivot
lmao
tribal badger
but they made it finally work yesterday
ignore armor and everything
so maybe they fixed that
jolly sierra
gimme buffs
potent pivot
but they made it finally work yesterday
think outlaw should play GS once they get tier btw
tribal badger
might play bR + gs tbh
potent pivot
oh ya ofc
potent pivot
GS buffs the tier set atm
tribal badger
filler for energy, another gap closer (in a season where they murdered sprint talent)
potent pivot
so if that isn't fixed it should be good
tribal badger
yea we'll see, my main thing is outlaws tier is pretty meh overall and nerfed by 50% in pvp
like in pve the total value (including 5% agi) is 8%
tribal badger
sure just not sure if its worth swapping something to ghostly for, will need to test it
yea im also wondering about secondaries
theres a lot to try out
i still think crit will be the way for law because mastery is just so much weaker st
potent pivot
yeh ig i could see that
i think gs is good in general
not only because of the tier interaction
tribal badger
it probably is its just expensive to take if u also want BR
and BR is so damn handy
potent pivot
KIR
tribal badger
you actually dont have any high damage windows with kir
potent pivot
don't think i could ever play that shit even in pve
tribal badger
like even HO doesnt really but like
during dance ambush spam is reasonable
kir is just SS mash
pure sustain without any spikes
tribal badger
yea I mean HO isnt even playing GSW in pve anymore
you drop it for other stuff usually
potent pivot
yeh
potent pivot
the tier set also makes gsw worse i think
potent pivot
i don't think they want them to not be used in pvp
but they don't want any of them to be OP
jolly sierra
yeah but in case ppl drops it
potent pivot
idk
i think it's inherently bad design if people are dropping the main power spike in a season
jolly sierra
tier sets in pvp are a mistake anyways
potent pivot
that's a hot take
jolly sierra
they had to just readd the pvp old sets bonus and was good for pvp
not overtuned pve sets to kill npcs
tribal badger
I think the only problem I have with sets in pvp is that theres no defacto access path to them in pvp
where u can earn them at the same rate as pve
that feels odd, cause back in the day you bought pvp sets for pvp currency
now its just pray for vault and wait for catalyst which is supposed to be the pve catch up mechanic for sets
potent pivot
not overtuned pve sets to kill npcs
i mean it's all just +damage, that's all that really matters
potent pivot
I think the only problem I have with sets in pvp is that theres no defacto acces...
yeah this i agree with
feels odd
jolly sierra
i mean it's all just +damage, that's all that really matters
the thing is they need a lot of dmg from tiers to kill shit, so it reflected in pvp
killing ppl w 390k hp
tribal badger
well the nerf is intended to make them all less impactful so if u dont get tier early ur not as far behind
most specs tiers r around 8-10% this patch
jolly sierra
vs killing shit w 100m hp
tribal badger
so they will be 4-5% dps for 4set total in pvp
which isnt really as massive as it sounds
(Evokers is 16% btw)
jolly sierra
well its something at least
jolly sierra
(Evokers is 16% btw)
add the lego
tribal badger
there is no leggo and even if there was its a simp leggo
so probably pretty bad in pvp
it gives other people stats
if that leak was accurate
jolly sierra
sounds like will be released w evoker third spec
tribal badger
another thing to keep in mind for tier is that many specs tiers r designed to push them into new builds
and those builds... are not going to be used in pvp
like outlaws tier for example pushes it towards kir, makes kir the best build ST
its 8% dps for kir, only ~7% for HO
but i dont think we r ever gunna be playing kir in pvp
so our set is more then 50% nerfed in pvp realistically
this is probably the case for a majority of specs
blizzard designed tiers to be more build impactful this season
jolly sierra
are our current tiers nerfed rn?
tribal badger
everyones is, they global modded them by 50%
they just needed to go in and specifically mod tiers that u cant just flat nerf by 50% easily (like elemental shamans 2set)
jolly sierra
free stormkeepers?
tribal badger
yup
potent pivot
so our set is more then 50% nerfed in pvp realistically
i don't think this is the proper way to math this out
tribal badger
oh it isnt im just giving an example because outlaws is rather simple (echo of the damage you do) with very similar pve values
some peoples sets work differently in pvp because how they play in pvp is different
law does pretty close to its pure pve dps rotation in pvp
potent pivot
yeah it's just, you're comparing pve sims and pve gear
to pvp tuning
that's a can of worms my friend
i think the biggest thing that will give you an answer is just hitting a pvp dummy with the set
switching some talents around, and just messing with it
potent pivot
that's the most boring thing to do though
do we really want to just buy the new conquest gear every patch?
that's so boring
gotta have a way to shake up talent choices and builds
tribal badger
bring back actual pvp tier sets and stop being lazy 😠
its w/e at least we get 1 guarenteed piece this season
tribal badger
pvp sets were fun becauser they were usually making u stronger based on pvp stuffs
i guess thats what pvp talents sorta do now
like i remember feral had a pvp set that gave it a damage amp after kicking someone
and reset their dash
inner tartan
is it just me or rn dose outlaw suck in pvp
simple crest
got into a 1 vs 4. Killed 3 of them before I died. I think this is how they felt with all my vanishing.
chrome schooner
gotta have a way to shake up talent choices and builds
There's a cool one it's called tuning
potent pivot
There's a cool one it's called tuning
just gonna re-tune talents every season to shake things up?
i don't see that happening
chrome schooner
There is no need to be so drastic as to change EVERYTHING. But if they decided to make small adjustments here and there you could end up with big changes
For instance!
potent pivot
sure but like
chrome schooner
Let's say they do something as basic as increasing Mutilate's damage by a significant amount
potent pivot
the entire goal of giving us back tier sets was to have a better form of player progression
chrome schooner
Barring any other changes
potent pivot
everyone was begging for them to come back
chrome schooner
Then the Assa tree changes a lot
Qnd the class one a little
Yeah idk about everyone
potent pivot
i think they should focus on bug fixing all the broken stuff in the game before they go fine tuning abilities every season
chrome schooner
I for one don't think sharing the same tiersets for PvP, M+ and Raiding is a good idea at all
And thus I'd rather have no set in PvP than a set that is originally designed for either M+ or Raiding
But then again
Idk about "everyone"
chrome schooner
But truly if everyone is hyped to have some M+ designed set specifically in ranked arena
Then I can only say they are not very smart, or extremely overly casual when it comes to PvP without the slightest interest for competitive gameplay
And so, we don't look at it the same way :p
potent pivot
i disagree
potent pivot
i've heard plenty of r1s who liked sets in sepulcher for instance
potent pivot
nah i just meant you calling out the word 'everyone'
chrome schooner
I can understand that people who got an OP set were happy
potent pivot
when ofc it didn't mean 100% of ppl
chrome schooner
Even myself, the first weeks of SLS3 Assa 4P
I had a lot of FUN
But if you look at it competitively
potent pivot
like the sub's 4p was black powder only
chrome schooner
Being able to kill someone in 1.5s wasn't good
potent pivot
i could see your point of view for sure
chrome schooner
Even though it was fun
potent pivot
they've kept these last two sets pretty damn simple
potent pivot
for them to encompass all content
chrome schooner
Not for every single class
potent pivot
i agree pvp specific sets would be better
chrome schooner
It is actually a wonder to me
potent pivot
but i don't think we're gonna get em :p
chrome schooner
They did keep some sets simple as you say
They also made some sets super boring
Like Warrior
And then some sets were just ... insane
It was just not the same treatment for everyone at all
potent pivot
yehp
chrome schooner
And again from a competitive pov
potent pivot
i dunno who/how many item designers they have doing the sets
chrome schooner
I find this so really bad
potent pivot
but it seems obvious that not all of them come from 1 person
chrome schooner
Which is why I say well, between this and no set
I'd go no set
But of course if I could choose any path I'd pick PvP designed set
Stuff to counter disarms or enhance interrupts or stuff like that
Utility, basically
chrome schooner
but it seems obvious that not all of them come from 1 person
Yeah
potent pivot
i just don't think the answer should ever be 'no set'
it should be answered by better tuning
or something
chrome schooner
Well, the ideal answer isn't
potent pivot
they should make it work at a better level, for everyone
chrome schooner
I just say "I'd rather have this over that" as in, two choices what do I pick
But in the grand scheme of things, tuning's better
potent pivot
the thing is they aren't ever going to care solely about the competitive level
the 1% argument
chrome schooner
Oh yeah
chrome schooner
Well tbh for all its flaws
I like the pace at which they did this in BfA
Second azerite ring in s2, then an essence, was ok
Just the PvE gear made everything really bad
But tbh I'd be curious to replay BfA with all the 50% PvP mods they nowadays put on PvE items, & with the current trinket set bonus
potent pivot
i didn't play bfa one bit so i don't really know :d
i think some of these pvp mods are very hit or miss
like assa's last tuning being pve only
when it was such a small aura buff
jolly sierra
drest trinket
potent pivot
it very consistently seems like they get scared or nervous after a class is OP and gets nerfed
twin burrow
And bike
wide mortar
inner tartan
can soem one sent me a good outlaw 2v2 and solos shuffle built my damage s ucks
potent pivot
can soem one sent me a good outlaw 2v2 and solos shuffle built my damage s uck...
not much has changed,
https://murlok.io/rogue/outlaw/2v2 should still be a good base
copper maple
But tbh I'd be curious to replay BfA with all the 50% PvP mods they nowadays put...
The gearing process in bfa was garbage though.
Basically just one predetermined conquest item and vault on a weekly basis
chrome schooner
Yeah that was the big issue
They gave any PvP vendor and imo the expansion was great in PvP, progression was nice regarding external powers etc (up until last ssn at least)
jolly sierra
azerite gear was the replacement for tier i recall m
and the fkn pvp system was the worst imo
chrome schooner
only because of no vendor
jolly sierra
literal just pve gear or very timegated pvp gear upgraded via trophies
surreal barn
BFA was a dumpster fire. A fun dumpster fire, but still a dumpster fire.
Rogue was so op at the start of it 😂
chrome schooner
Rogue was OP all along
jolly sierra
yeah no vendors and random drops from weekly were fkn garbage
agree
i just geared w a gushing wounds boots from AH pre nerf and gear from horrific runs
the runs did all the gearing at s4
legion had pvp gear through WQ, so wasnt too bad
so what is the point of this topic?
fuck pve gearing for pvp
potent pivot
nova viper
twin burrow
sinful moon
What spec of rogue is atm the best
sinful moon
XD
twin burrow
Sub , quote me
sinful moon
Yea you think sub rogue?
jolly sierra
its ret paladin clearly
twin burrow
Sub gained now 30 percent ss as compared to a week ago starting Tuesday
That's just one example
light estuary
What comps yall gonna play this season?
twin burrow
Destro sub and thug, possibly rmp if my mage cometh backeth
normal tendon
any vets wanna tell me if its worth to learn and get good at roguefor pvp, just leveled my first char but im getting my ass whooped and i cant understand if its my fault or the class lol
potent pivot
any vets wanna tell me if its worth to learn and get good at roguefor pvp, just ...
learning rogue imo is super fun and rewarding, most things shouldn't be blamed on a class
the game just takes time and practice
normal tendon
yh thats what i thought kinda
radiant anvil
any vets wanna tell me if its worth to learn and get good at roguefor pvp, just ...
kinda both
potent pivot
What spec of rogue is atm the best
sub and outlaw both looking like they'll be good
radiant anvil
rogue is not braindead at all
normal tendon
i feel kinda bad for my teammates tho lol
radiant anvil
only sub and assasin exist for me
normal tendon
did 3 solo qs and i only got like 3 wins out of all the rounds
potent pivot
just takes effort and patience
record your games
and watch them back
can be a huge help
normal tendon
is there any other efficient way to practice beside arena
dont rly want to hard fuck my mmr while practicing
jolly sierra
skirmishes with a healer
normal tendon
Prayge
twin burrow
What is this feeling? His powerlevel shouldn't have this much pull for just a beginner
normal tendon
fr fr
potent pivot
candid steeple
hello, long time reader and lurker... one question
how does the stam buff affected assassination overall? I feel like I am unable to kill people on bgs and WM this week
full 424 tho.
candid steeple
shit, ok...
vague summit
Sub had a a buff
jolly sierra
ah i was talking about assa regarding the question
chrome schooner
well the guy asked about assa in the question so ...
jolly sierra
btw does blizzard knew they missed a fkn dagger w malicia?
potent pivot
btw does blizzard knew they missed a fkn dagger w malicia?
only thing i can find is a reddit post about it, so not sure
bug report it in game
kinda all we can do besides making a forum post
jolly sierra
maybe she is using it to unstuck the chest with trophies of strife lol
low moon
is anyone familiar with weakaura custom checks to check if the player is "in pvp" whether thats zoneID's, flagged for pvp, etc.?
i.e. i have a feint weakaura that i use "always" but i only want a glow to apply if im in pvp
jolly sierra
im not US
jolly sierra
nah try ret
jolly sierra
here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaBFkK7oiU
lucid citrus
HAHA
jolly sierra
the most u see, turns worse
waxen meteor
Homies what to catch up today!
graceful ravine
Gearing up my Dh cos I’m a fotm slave and supatease/ven said it’s good
sturdy condor
no daggers from world pvp vendor, anyone know why?
potent pivot
no daggers from world pvp vendor, anyone know why?
sturdy condor
lucid citrus
god damn lock self heals are too strong
untold remnant
alr ty dud
I learned a trick from Pika that increased my win rate quite a lot:
You build your secret technique, use it (shadow dance, kidney/evis, echoing reprimand, cheap, cold blood/secret) and the instant shadowy duel, so people get the big hit without being able to get a heal.
Makes people panic
Was in this vid
faint vessel
Hows sub rogue so far in 10.1 damage good now?
potent pivot
Hows sub rogue so far in 10.1 damage good now?
it's a bit better, but no way to know for sure. season hasn't started yet
faint vessel
2 rogues need to gang up on my lock to kill it, one rogue cant
steady rune
Anyone know how a hunter could hunters mark me while im in stealth from afar ?
minor cape
god damn lock self heals are too strong
he literally has one
🫡
drain life is only ever used on affliction
lock is mostly about blocking and avoiding damage
modest lake
does conquest reset next week or do we keep what we got
potent pivot
does conquest reset next week or do we keep what we got
conq resets
wintry dew
here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsaBFkK7oiU
just saw this video, gave it a look, got cringed, then read the comments:
Also people in the comments are cringe
terse flower
Id guess no, since you don't use those with pvp gear.
harsh steppe
ok ty
jolly sierra
im getting shitty crests from pvp chests and wq
i wanna break them but tbh dunno if they will be useful
lyric onyx
Any news on Scalewarden dagger?
terse flower
Any news on Scalewarden dagger?
Yeah, they were happy we notified them as they almost sent the honor and conquest dagger live on the vendor. But thanks to our reports they remembered they needed to remove those daggers from the game too.
grim atlas
guyz do u know, how we can get new pvp blue weapons? ive seen some ppl does have 392 items
pale storm
The bloody token gear is available, unfortunately, there is no dagger on the vendor
grim atlas
ive seen a guy with 392 blue weapon which turns out 432 something in pvp huh
but ty for information man
pale storm
Yes, the bloody token gear does that, you can upgrade your belt/bracers/gloves/chest etc however for some unknown reason blizzard put no dagger on the vendor
normal tendon
is this satire
untold remnant
Must be
jolly sierra
i read bottom and the guy was serious
but
to defend him
most players were at 1k4 this season, so has a point
surreal barn
Well, I certainly didn’t feel like one the end of this last season 😂
jolly sierra
this season is the most distant between rating overall imo
u can have ppl w very high cr or ppl in the dumpster
btw, do u recall how much hp did u had in bfa seasons? im researching something
wintry dew
As someone who thinks he's pretty trash and usually manages to get 1.8 every single season for transmog purposes, reading people being happy for reaching 1.2 makes me realize 1.8 its not the norm whatsoever xD
normal tendon
offtopic but are the q times for solo q that long during the season or it gets better?
been playing for a few days and alrdy tired of waiting 20 mins for a shit quality game
wintry dew
offtopic but are the q times for solo q that long during the season or it gets b...
at 2000/2200 i was having 1H long queues
wary spire
I don't know if that's nostalgia speaking, but I had the most fun in bfa's pvp. 
normal tendon
but ther eis no way there isnt 6 people qing at the same time
whats the reason wtf
normal tendon
i guess
jolly sierra
i had fun in bfa pvp too but was calculating the safeguard trinket
watched a shadenox video for when that trinket appeared and the guy had 165k hp
the trinket procced by 40k absorb according to outcry comments
that is like roughly a little more than 22% from total hp
ppl is speculating than the cloak will be nerfed by 60%
that leaves the shield absorbing by 101k
do u think w that nerf than can be applied will still worth using it?