#The Daily Rework Discussion Thread

4650 messages · Page 5 of 5 (latest)

fallen crag
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Even if it’s against the rules

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People will do it

south bolt
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yeah, but I don't want to make town be punished for it anyways even if someone else throws

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so maybe keep the punishment?

fallen crag
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I tjink removing dc messages during the day

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Is a good idea

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That’s what was suggested

south bolt
#

oh hell no

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If there's a dc when vfa happens

fallen crag
#

It’s kind of silly anyway

south bolt
#

you're kinda fucked

fallen crag
#

I suppose that’s fair

south bolt
#

it'd be like jester but worse

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so here's my thing

fallen crag
#

I have food

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BRB LUL

south bolt
#

technically by your logic then DC'ing when death is out is optimal

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trying not to be pedantic

limpid bane
south bolt
#

but I don't see that too often

south bolt
limpid bane
#

so hiding them until the player actually died

south bolt
#

at least vet kills don't count

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as do crus kills

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yk?

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like only vigi/trick kills

limpid bane
#

me when i lose my win condition by having jailor execution it

south bolt
#

maybe jailor

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but no indirect attacks imo

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no random-ass vet alert wins

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or crus kill wins

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at least until they rework crus (fingers crossed)

limpid bane
south bolt
#

idk maybe hiding day dc's if they're targeted by exe?

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and on stand?

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it would give a fallback for targets but I think you could still push it

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like they say "ok I'm dcing"

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you could still push saying they're faking the dc

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if it's hidden

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plus then you've confirmed that they're leaving intentionally

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which would make moderating it a LOT easier

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since then they have to admit their rulebreaking to make it have an effect, you see what I mean?

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and also maybe up punishment time for leaving if you were on stand?

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even more than current?

mental vine
#

I still think Exe should have a 1-2 barrier ability. Just because the Town could be a target for evils doesn't mean Exe should have no counterplay against evils attacking their target.

Barrier, if successful, should be silent for the target though, maybe even notifying the attacking evil that an executioner prevented the kill

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A reroll mechanic just feels jank.

south bolt
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or smth like that

mental vine
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yeah

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that sounds sick btw

south bolt
#

"An executioner has marked your target, preventing them from being killed for the night"

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something to do with marking/stalking/smth ?

timber phoenix
#

The Executioner's iron will prevented you from killing your target!!

mental vine
#

that's some sick ass flavor text

south bolt
#

and there's no reason for cov/neutrals to respect the exe's wishes

timber phoenix
south bolt
#

them directly preventing their death would be nice

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oh yeah

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I FORGOT LOL

mental vine
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lmao

south bolt
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(I'm still cursed scrolling exe gonna be honest)

mental vine
#

exe's goofy

south bolt
#

I didn't like tunneling a player and I still don't

grand ocean
#

what NE have we not done

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doom?

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let's talk abt doom

ionic garden
#

Force it to choose Cov Subalignment and/or exact roles for Neutral + Apoc, AND/OR limit it to 1 evil per faction (all Neutrals count as 1) and 90% of the issue is gone

vagrant quarry
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and just make it unable to guess NE (real)

ionic garden
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I don't count modded Apoc as Neutral

vagrant quarry
#

oh right

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just make it so it cant guess ne and nk only once

lucid cairn
mental vine
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Would work to prevent Coven from being at a majority to losing 75% of it's members in one day

south bolt
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like for town, yeah full roles all the way

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but cov?

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you don't know whos the killer

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you don't know whos the illu

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if there even are illus

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like it'd make it even more of rng guesses

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even if you scumread evils right

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is the sussy tracker claim actually the ww?

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is it the person claiming to be the ww? (jester)

ionic garden
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That's also why I said sub-alignments

sinful sequoia
#

turn it into NP lite

lucid cairn
limpid bane
sinful sequoia
lucid cairn
lucid cairn
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I mean yeah...

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I'd like them to be actual Witchcons but whatever

sinful sequoia
#

yeah

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NE into diet NP for vanilla

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for modded?

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idfk

limpid bane
#

id like NE to be witchcon / gameplay goal like executioner

sinful sequoia
#

^^

dark vector
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add December, new gamemode that spawns a random game mode, but all the modifiers are randomized.

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:^)

south bolt
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because I feel like none of the current NEs work with witchcon too well

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(the Jester trying to get to the final 2 and figure out how to vote themself so they can haunt the last person)

south bolt
#

CS with no CS fr

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town famine d3

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now to convince town that you're actually on their side :P

dark vector
#

what if we reworked teams to actually be good

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Teams = 5 people will be a informed minority, 10 people will be the uninformed majority

mental vine
lucid cairn
craggy salmon
limpid bane
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i have already made my suggestion to make them a witchcon but im re-doing them to make them more punishing

mental vine
#

Just make evils immune to Doom

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You still see that they were Doomed, but they won't actually die.

While they still do get outed, Town still has to deal with them in some way

icy berry
#

give all evils Invincible Defence real

mental vine
limpid bane
#

doesnt solve doomsayer being a town role in most cases

mental vine
#

Giving Evils more immunity to the effects of Doom would give Town more of an incentive not to side with the NE.

Plus, assuming the Doomsayer got their win condition, I've played more games where Doomsayer was a detriment to Town than an ally.

Evils acting as a Town vote is common with all Neutrals barring Arsonist, Jester, and Executioner

You can't say "Serial Killer is a Town role" because they full claim Serial Killer d1 and asks Town who they should kill

limpid bane
#

what

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if you just spam guess 3 coven you are still just a town investigative in the neutral evil roleslot

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wether they die or not is slightly different

mental vine
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Just spamming 3 Coven roles isn't a valid strategy to win if you're paying any attention, unless if Coven is at a massive advantage.

Doomsayer screws over Town due to Town's instant confirmability. If Coven is confirmed or suspected, they get voted up.

limpid bane
#

if doomsayer has reads on coven why are they telling town and not guessing them

mental vine
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have you played Doomsayer? You don't win by screwing Coven over like 90% of the time

limpid bane
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yes, infact im toming doomsayer as of now

mental vine
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no I'm genuinely serious. It's very difficult to win as Doom by just spam guessing Coven

limpid bane
#

reading coven when you have unlimited guesses and no pressure

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if you can use a confirmed townie, but still doesnt matter if its 1 coven 2 town since you still leave town

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anything other than 3 town benefits town

mental vine
#

You can definitely catch one Coven randomly after having two confirmed Townies to guess, but it ain't the same as actively screwing over Coven.

Additionally, with the "Coven is Doom immune" suggestion, if said Coven doesn't die, then Town still has to waste a night/ability killing them

limpid bane
#

town will have these resources unless they lost the game

mental vine
#

It's a wasted night.

Assume 5 evils (4 Coven, 1 Doomsayer) and 10 Town with no killing abilities.

Coven kills n1,
no lynch d2
(9 town left) (5 evils left)

Coven kills n2, two Townies are doomed and 1 Coven is doomed.
assume no lynch d3

(8 town left, 2 town about to die to Doom) (4 evils left)

Coven kills n3. Now it's d4.
(5 town left) (4 evils left, 1 Coven outed)

It's now a 5v4. With a CK or a VMer, Coven can break even.

If the Coven isn't outed but instead killed n3 (like how it acts right now), it's a 5v3 instead.

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If Coven manages to mislynch d3, Town has now lost in a 4v4.

Two Townies dying is a giant impact, bigger than a Coven getting outed

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removing the death of evils gives evils much more leeway

limpid bane
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it just reduces swing of dooming 3 evils before game ends

mental vine
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which is

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a good thing

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To compensate, have all Doomed players roleblocked (Bypass Hangover) the night after they were Doomed.

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Especially useful on Neutrals, who can negotiate with Town (assuming Coven is a threat) instead of just straight up dying

sinful sequoia
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i must be cracked at this game then

limpid bane
sinful sequoia
fallen crag
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But like spam guessing all 3 is unlikely yes

mental vine
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I'm mostly arguing against the "spam guessing 3 Coven" argument

fallen crag
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Oh yeah

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I agree that ones unlikely

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Second one is more like what I meant happens most of the time

mental vine
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Which is why I was genuinely confused as to whether Lagspikes ever played as a Doomsayer lol

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But, for instance, in a mode like Jackals, if the RN Doomsayer managed to use a revealed Tpow and a confirmed non-TI as their first two guesses, and made an informed guess on a suspicious third player as Coven/Apoc, I do think that the evil in question shouldn't die to Doom.

south bolt
grand ocean
south bolt
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why?

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just make it so anyone upped via only legion votes doesn't get upped fr

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like deadass not seeing the problem with this

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hide the votes

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force all legion when voting their team to either inno or abstain

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probably abstain

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it'd be terrible to play

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but it could work about as well as I do (a steaming wreck)

fallen crag
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I ddddunnooooo

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Legion is like

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Very very very unfriendly to new players

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Also in the wrong group it can just become bullying and like this is tos so half the time it's the "wrong group" cos ur playing with randoms LUL

grand ocean
#

we did
jest, exe, doom, inq
p sure that's everything

#

should try NS next and try to handle Pirate✨
B)
-# Considering nuking it off the face of earth is not an option, that is

winged dirge
#

hi harry

polar cloud
grand ocean
grand ocean
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the only reason we can't nuke Inq and bring in the new rework is because inq icon is peak

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frfr

grand ocean
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But seriously what good reworks for Pirate are there
-# ~~ everyone proceeds to reply with "There isn't one"~~

limpid bane
#

idk

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anti TPLO pirate NE

next forum
#

Pirate

Neutral Killing
Rob the crew blind!

Kill (Infinite uses): Pirate's basic kill ability.

Snare (5 uses): Place down a snare trap. If a player walks into the snare, they will have their speed lowered and be unable to use abilities for a set period of time. The Pirate will get an arrow pointing to the trap when it's activated, for a quick and easy kill.

Attributes:

  • Snares stay there until triggered, but will reset if untriggered when a meeting is called.

Settings:
Pirate kill cooldown: 25s (default)
Max number of snares: 5 (default)
Snare cooldown: 25s (default)
Snare range: 0.35x (default)
Snare speed drop duration: 15s (default)
Snare speed drop: 0.5x (default)

Why?

Pirate is one of the most hated roles in ToS2. I wanted to fix it, and this seems like a good way of keeping it similar to its original incarnation while not making it confusing or overpowered. The snare emulates Pirate's roleblocking ability, while also giving the Pirate a way to get good kills if they're used carefully. However, the snares could also backfire if people are traveling in groups, meaning you'd need to be careful about your usage of them.

polar cloud
light hollow
south bolt
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actually

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when do we get ALL the modded roles as plushies?

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Starspawn plushie, Starfur will be happy

feral pendant
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why did Bers get their defense removed?

next forum
#

factional apoc having defense is stupid

south bolt
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CL

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Bers

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PM

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wow I sure do hope my Vigi game goes well

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when all 3 of my targets can defend against me, and 2 of them do it automatically

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n3: shoot 5 (defense)

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n5: shoot 7 (defense)

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you think town's gonna believe that shit?

icy berry
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clearly the solution is to shoot a townie to confirm yourself real

south bolt
fallen crag
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It kind of never comes into play except for all any where it's powerful against other factions so

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& vanilla parity

sweet rapids
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ATT moment

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When deputy shoots

dark vector
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Compliance should lose defence and check immunity tbh

limpid bane
#

thats

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exactly what they did

dark vector
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when?

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most recently?

limpid bane
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a while ago

dark vector
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really i dont actually remember that

grand ocean
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Wait, hol up
are we out of roles?
I mean we haven't really finished NS or TI but other than that

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what have we not done yet

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Have we done TS yet?

cyan fog
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probably theres only 3

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theres over 10k messages here so im not gonna check

grand ocean
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XD

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Yeah I stopped updating links so navigation is hell rn

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but I don't think we ever did Tav

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or Retri

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hmph

cyan fog
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Tav should give the UO message

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allows more deception and claim space for evils

grand ocean
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that's probs for the best

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ye

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-# ngl just remove UO and RB messages altogether and make em silent Antics

limpid bane
grand ocean
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^

timber phoenix
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The main issue is TI

cyan fog
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thats prob better

limpid bane
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(lets non disruptive evils claim disruptive roles)

cyan fog
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town gets wayyy too much info

grand ocean
limpid bane
grand ocean
#

yeah XD

timber phoenix
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If you make it default to a specific result tav would feel like a liability

limpid bane
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not if you just say they couldnt perform their investigation

grand ocean
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^

limpid bane
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due to uo / witch / disruption

timber phoenix
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Hmm

limpid bane
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“You were unable to perform your investigation last night.”

cyan fog
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evils being blocked off from fake claiming many town roles or being limited to a few is not good

timber phoenix
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New exe play I rbd the seer they are fake

limpid bane
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wdym new exe play

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you can already claim tav and “rbd” the ck with no coven kills

timber phoenix
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I was thinking of the seer not seeing "investigation failed"

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Would it be fine for tav to be able to check if a TI is real by seeing if they get results after silently rbing them

limpid bane
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considering evils can claim tav and skillcheck town hard

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by getting an easy mislynch

grand ocean
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we could hide it from only town so evils will know if they got rbed

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/disrupted

limpid bane
grand ocean
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I mean how is that any different from showing them the "You were unable to perform your investigation last night."

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:P

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either way they know they were rbed

limpid bane
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yeah so nothing changed

grand ocean
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It'd be harder to confirm at least

south bolt
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let's be real, retri is kinda limited by what it has in the graveyard

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so any changes to other roles are kinda echoed in power by how retri is affected

dark vector
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recent example is vigi changes were a pretty big nerf to ret

south bolt
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yeah exactly

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the big one

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ret itself I'd say is balanced similarly to apoc, if that makes sense?

dark vector
#

vigi was by far the best dead player to use

south bolt
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it can be broken or it can be useless

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it's all up to the roll of the GY

dark vector
#

I wish ret could use more

south bolt
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like what

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anything else'd be broken

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let ret using coro auto-autopsy the coven kill fr

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set up a whole priority list

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transformed apoc -> coven -> bers -> NKs -> town

dark vector
#

all town roles apart from town power, though i think ret needs a soft rework

south bolt
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and ret not being able to self is also good

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obviously

dark vector
#

that is good yeah

south bolt
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I like ret the way it is

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because it provides a bit of a possible cushion

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to the same issue amne faces

dark vector
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i dont with the corpse stealing multi ret is dumb

south bolt
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"what if a strong role that town needs, dies n1?"

dark vector
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and its also too similar to amne most games its a better version of amne

south bolt
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like 3 rets use the vigi

limpid bane
#

amne and ret on the same team is redundant

south bolt
#

who reloads

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who shoots

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and whose target is shot

vagrant quarry
#

how many of yall wouldnt want a 16 player version of btos2/tos2

limpid bane
#

ye

dark vector
south bolt
south bolt
#

any visiting role, actually

dark vector
south bolt
#

the game is only coded to let roles visit

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once

dark vector
#

if a sheriff dies n1 two rets using it wouldn't be op

south bolt
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unless specifically told not to

limpid bane
#

merge the two

dark vector
#

reviving should be a day ability also were you become that role for the night so retri can be roleblocked and witched like normal

south bolt
sinful sequoia
#

then what give to amne

limpid bane
#

neutral special amne and call it a day

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im lazy

south bolt
dark vector
limpid bane
#

what if using current UI

south bolt
#

no, because then it does just make amne obsolete

sinful sequoia
#

iirc rets not being able to use the same corpse is like

limpid bane
#

ret selected a dead player than can visit like that player manually

limpid bane
sinful sequoia
#

something to do with killing roles

limpid bane
#

kill amne

south bolt
#

no

sinful sequoia
#

cause multiple rets could just spam vigilante corpses

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lol

south bolt
#

amne is chill

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I'd have a drink with amne

limpid bane
#

it needs to go

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amne isnt a role

south bolt
limpid bane
#

it makes ret bad by existing

dark vector
#

I hate the arguement that it's busted for two rets to use a vigilante when you could also just have two vigilantes

sinful sequoia
#

unless you limit ret tk usage to one

dark vector
sinful sequoia
south bolt
limpid bane
#

day ret wouldnt work for that reason ngl

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unless its like

south bolt
#

it can be anything other than a tpow

sinful sequoia
#

that still esentially means you have 2 vigis

limpid bane
#

become that role start of night'

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but thats jank

light hollow
sinful sequoia
#

or 3 rets

south bolt
#

you COULD use the vigi

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or you could use the cler

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or you could use the invest

limpid bane
sinful sequoia
#

its just an unhealthy interaction

dark vector
#

or three vigilantes

south bolt
#

you're 3 roles in 1 with that

limpid bane
#

since you could just shoot them before they attacked

sinful sequoia
#

only way i see it being handled is giving ret a limit on tk corpses

limpid bane
dark vector
south bolt
sinful sequoia
limpid bane
south bolt
#

same for necro, too, yes?

limpid bane
#

no im talking vigilante here

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one bullet

south bolt
dark vector
#

necro shouldn't be able to use nks

sinful sequoia
#

necro should not just be treated as evil retributionist

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so

limpid bane
#

that are transformed

dark vector
#

apoc are nks

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faction nks

limpid bane
#

not here

south bolt
#

evil roles should be slightly more powerful than their good counterparts

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give NKs a limit too

limpid bane
#

necro should become day ability

south bolt
#

for necro

limpid bane
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so it can vessel shit like ritualist

sinful sequoia
#

i honestly have one possible idea for necro but i dont think people would like it

limpid bane
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or just post it here

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either works

sinful sequoia
#

ill just say it here lmao

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someone suggested it b4 in relation to temporarys illusionist rework

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and it was to just let necro use any town corpse regardless of graveyard

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excluding ts so it doesnt step over poisoner

limpid bane
#

ngl

sinful sequoia
#

it is

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but if it were to be implemented

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then

limpid bane
#

im gonna post my necro in like 30 minutes (I havent drafted it yet so like)

sinful sequoia
#

idk it was just an idea i thought was interesting for the most part

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and i dont really want to leave necro at like

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evil retributionist

south bolt
#

I don't like that because it opens too many options for necro

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it can clone Cleric to heal

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it can clone LO or Tracker to be discount Wildling

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it can reliably fake ANY non-ts role then

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it's interesting, but it'd be broken af

dark vector
limpid bane
dark vector
#

ret should be allowed to use seer

limpid bane
#

jank

dark vector
#

yes

limpid bane
#

better solution

dark vector
#

its not jank

limpid bane
#

use current UI

south bolt
#

no.

limpid bane
#

of picking a dead guy in shield ability

dark vector
#

its jank to have necro be day but retri to be night only

south bolt
#

just...

limpid bane
#

then being able to visit like the role they really were

dark vector
#

both should funcition similar

limpid bane
#

so if i select the dead seer i can visit two players and get seer info

south bolt
#

the only reason I'd see that being not busted

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is if it was tos1 ret

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and bodies could only be used once

limpid bane
south bolt
#

coven should not have to deal

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with killing the important TI

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only for a million TS

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to show up to the Seer convention cosplaying as them

limpid bane
#

me when the role specifically designed for picking up whatever died cant pick up whatever died

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seer problem

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whatever

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who cares

south bolt
#

is that.

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not ret.

sinful sequoia
#

is ret not being able to visit a problem with ui

limpid bane
limpid bane
sinful sequoia
#

i never really got that

limpid bane
#

it visits the dead guy

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but just like why

south bolt
#

amne trades off choosing their role for consistent usage

sinful sequoia
#

oh

limpid bane
#

it deserves to be deleted

sinful sequoia
#

i thought it was like that for some coding or ui reasoning

south bolt
#

ret gets inconsistent usage but more options

sinful sequoia
#

is it legit just

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flavour balancing lmao

limpid bane
#

yeah

sinful sequoia
#

ret digs up the corpses so he must visit the dead player

limpid bane
#

ret should visit like the rest of the damn town

sinful sequoia
#

yeah then i wouldnt mind ret being a night revive

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give ret part of amnes kit too

limpid bane
#

being a night revive just makes it easier

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and less janky

sinful sequoia
#

is it 6 or 5 ts currently

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i think its like 6 right

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cooking up a whole new ts is going to be painful unless theyre willing to just exile amnesiac

dark vector
#

ret should visit, be roleblocked if not using tav ect.

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Very few roles should be rb immune

limpid bane
#

day ret is janky

dark vector
#

no it isn't

limpid bane
#

current UI will let for you selecting a dead role and alive players to visit

dark vector
#

how is it janky

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explain

limpid bane
#

and now cloned a bullet three times

dark vector
#

the only example of it being kinda bad is vigi

raw tangle
#

Okay but body stealing is actively a worse solution

dark vector
#

pretty much

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multi ret being rng is awful

limpid bane
dark vector
#

trickster is tp

limpid bane
dark vector
#

dep cant be cloned in this situation

limpid bane
dark vector
#

Do you think a loaded shot should be down to rng then

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in your 3 ret games

raw tangle
#

Family is over now so
Cant really

#

Finish

limpid bane
limpid bane
dark vector
#

do you think a loaded shot should be down to rng

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is that more healthy?

limpid bane
dark vector
#

current ret is RNG

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so

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and your advocating for keeping corpse stealing

limpid bane
#

id argue thats better than cloning the same bullet three times

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as much as rng sucks

dark vector
#

three vigilantes also can just exist

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in your scenario

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not like your advocating for vigi to be unique

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also this is like saying what if theirs 3 amnesaics and a vigilante dies lol

winged dirge
# sinful sequoia evil retributionist

The only place for Necro to go from here is UP now that the ghoul was removed.

Potentially I think the place to go is to give him an extra ability that is not broken. Preferably something to do with helping the graveyard duties be more consistent.

Right now, Necro can use TKs, Crusader, Tavern Keeper, and Monarch very well, which is good. But there could be something more.

cosmic quail
#

The issue with Necromancer, really, is that it’s a CK in CU’s clothing.

#

There’s a lot of roles it can use

#

But most of them aren’t worth the effort

#

And yes, this was helped by allowing Necromancer to use Town corpses indefinitely.
Even with this change though, most of the time you aren’t seeing much value out of the ones that don’t, in some way, produce a kill

limpid bane
#

necro can use town corpses infinitely now?

cosmic quail
#

In vanilla, yes

limpid bane
#

I thought it was still tied to body rot

cosmic quail
#

This has been a thing since the S4 update

limpid bane
#

well i havent made it past n2 as necromancer since update so that lines up

cosmic quail
#

(And yes I am aware that some valuable corpses don’t kill. Monarch in particular comes to mind)

timber phoenix
#

We are now knighting 2 coven

cosmic quail
#

Cleric is the only useable TP that doesn’t kill

winged dirge
# limpid bane necro can use town corpses infinitely now?

Yes, but that's still not a definitive niche.

IMO you get Crusader, Tav, Monarch, and TK. This much is still decent, but it would be great to have either an extra ability for days where you can't do anything at all, or something like infinite use of Common Coven.

cosmic quail
#

And you still have to predict when a Coven member is attacked and who it will be

#

Otherwise you are wasting time

winged dirge
#

Setting up UO to block Seers all day makes Crusader a valuable option, but other than that, you can use BG or Cleric if you know exactly when the Vigilante is going to attack you

You could also use a Cleric to discountIllusionistmoment the book holder

timber phoenix
#

When is that illu interaction getting nuked 💀

winged dirge
cosmic quail
south bolt
mental vine
#

let's revive this to talk about Bodyguard

shut roostBOT
#

Has BG gotten a major rework/overhaul yet?
Does it have a proposed rework?

dry jungle
#

not yet that is

icy berry
#

what needs changing about it though

#

you die in exchange for killing an evil player

upper fable
dim sun
#

Bg.

timber phoenix
#

One of the reasons is probably that it's just not fun to die

dim sun
#

Let bg transform to crus d4 or some shit

shut roostBOT
#

Reply to: @timber phoenix
One of the reasons is probably that it's just not fun to die
That is probably it-
yeah

#

I mean, there were a lot of reworks that people tried to make but not many of them got traction

#

which ones do we have...

south bolt
#

I feel like maybe just preventing TT from being bg would have to work

#

and besides

#

for tt bg you did kill either a vigi (who could have killed 2 more coven) or an NK (who is also an issue for coven)

#

what are your thoughts on it tho?

shut roostBOT
#

Reply to: @south bolt
what are your thoughts on it tho?
Tbh BG as a role is built around them dying
and I don't think dying is fun at all :P

south bolt
#

might also be a conflict of interest from me lol, I scroll bg so I'm probably a bit biased

#

I feel like BG is a true 1f1

#

which benefits town a LOT more than evils

shut roostBOT
#

Reply to: @south bolt
might also be a conflict of interest from me lol, I scroll bg so I'm probably a bit biased
it's playable, but not really fun at all
-# You can say the same for Pirate

south bolt
#

I mean, to me it fits it's role as a tp in a unique way

#

all of the tps have a unique characteristic

#

with their own tradeoffs

shut roostBOT
#

I still don't think it's very fun to play as bg tbh

#

that's my main complaint

south bolt
#

trapper is bg that doesn't die, but they can only protect once every two nights

#

bg dies, but can protect infinitely

#

cleric doesn't die and can protect every night, but doesn't kill attackers

#

etc etc

#

it might not be fun, but it also feels like it keeps evils from yolo'ing the tplo claim

#

because why not, if bg doesn't exist?

#

none of you will die for doing so

#

all you lose is a night

#

imo evils need to have a direct threat to those kinds of 'yolo' plays to discourage them from doing so

#

dying, as we've seen with hangman, is a VERY direct threat

timber phoenix
#

BG now eats the Necronomicon

south bolt
#

To me, a LOT of roles in this game balance the game's meta and playstyle just by their possibility

mental vine
#

why did I get two ghost pings lol

south bolt
#

like, rit/doom doesn't have to even have spawned to discourage vfr

timber phoenix
#

The most common BG rework I remember seeing boils down to "the attacker can't attack the nect night", which kind of fills that same idea of preventing a yolo yeet ig

south bolt
#

ench/illu don't need to have spawned to introduce doubt on TI pushes

#

wildling doesn't need to have spawned to discourage vfr in whispers

mental vine
mental vine
south bolt
#

also, then I worry cleric and oracle won't have their place in the game, if that makes sense?

#

not a huge worry but possible

#

whats the point of giving someone defense for a night when you could effectively give EVERYONE defense (from that person) for two?

#

and also, how would that work with Necro Passing?

mental vine
timber phoenix
#

Fair enough

south bolt
#

maybe a controversial take, but I feel like not every role has to be the same level of 'fun'.

mental vine
south bolt
#

like direct killers will almost always be more fun than other roles

#

because people like being active

mental vine
#

not a hot take at all, unless if you boil it down to "every role has to be equally fun, so every role sucks"

south bolt
#

if people want to lead, they'll obviously like tpow more than other roles

#

but also, probably more of a controversial take, we can have a few roles that are not considered fun if they are needed to help make the game itself fun for other roles.

mental vine
#

Anyways,

BG ideas mostly boil down to
"Can still kill but can also survive if lucky" and
"Roleblocks both you and the attacker for one night after proc"

#

and they both suck IMO

#

since one of them doesn't reduce KP, while the other one is negligible against coven

mental vine
#

it'll be Doctor that can't consecutively proc BUT can learn their attacker's identity after a night

south bolt
#

wait a damn minute

#

dusts off the cover to reveal btos1 Handler icon AHA! I KNEW IT!

mental vine
#

yes

#

But Handler is just better Doctor

#

can't protect against indirect or multiple attacks, but it learns the attacker's identity after visiting them/protecting against them a second time

dark vector
#

bodyguard sniffs the attacker and gets their scent

mental vine
#

This passively learns their target's identity, and evils passively learn their identity after successful proc

south bolt
#

(yes ik thats an evil role)

timber phoenix
#

Imagine if BG got a personal companion dog

south bolt
mental vine
#

I'll make a version 3 of a BG rework like this (v2 was negatively received)

dark vector
#

I honestly think its not really that much different to cleric which is my main issue but current bg sucks to play so..

#

I don't see you getting to see the attacker often, unless you are going out your way to try and find them?

I'm kinda ok with this over current BG though.

mental vine
#

Bodyguard (Town Protective)

Attack: None
Defense: None

Abilities:

  • Guard a player's house at night, nullifying Attacks that go their way and learning the identity of the killer in the process.
  • Equip a Self Vest, granting yourself Basic Defense.

Attributes:

  • Upon Guarding a Shrouded player, you will learn the identity of the affected person.

Guard (♾️, 🌙)

  • Guard a player at night, nullifying an attack aimed at them.
  • After successfully Guarding, you are put into a Recovery phase for one night.
  • During Recovery, you cannot Guard anyone and will learn your target's attacker at the end of the night.
  • The attacker and their faction will learn your identity, and you will become Illuminated if you defended against a Coven attack.
  • You do not nullify Astral or Indirect Attacks.

Self Vest (2️⃣, 🌙)

  • Equip a Self Vest, granting yourself Basic Defense for the night.
  • If you're in a Recovery phase, you will not learn the identity of the attacker at the end of the night.
mental vine
south bolt
#

nullifying all attacks or still just one?

#

please tell me just one

mental vine
#

just one

#

nullifying an attack

south bolt
#

ok

mental vine
#

the idea is, since the information is now delayed, evils have counterplay against you instead of turning into a 1f1. additionally, if you choose to self vest, you lose the ability to gain any information for that attack

south bolt
#

I feel like this relies on other tps to protect you for the night, is my issue

#

if you actually want value

#

and to not just be a worse cler

timber phoenix
#

BG here TP on me

mental vine
#

That is an issue, I do agree, but current BG is like that as well so...

south bolt
timber phoenix
#

Bugger

mental vine
#

that's mostly a TP chain issue IMO

south bolt
#

imo you already get value from current bg

#

because you DO kill an evil

#

this feels like it's just delayed

#

and wastes a town hang

mental vine
#

true

#

still, though, the looming threat of BG not using self and revealing the attacker very much exists

south bolt
#

which makes you effectively only able to protect twice

#

to not die anyways

#

just like old bg

mental vine
south bolt
#

which cleric can do infinitely

mental vine
#

Evil has a choice either to attack the BG but risk losing a kill due to self protect, or attack risking BG revealing the attacker

south bolt
#

also I feel like this would just make BG even more unfun to play against

mental vine
south bolt
#

...which is already another entire alignment

#

I don't want another alignhybrid role, because those generally don't seem to fit too well

mental vine
#

hmm

#

that's fair

#

Cleric and Oracle are the only fully TP roles IMO

Crus is TP/TS
BG is TP/TK
Trapper is TP/TK/TI

#

REALLY hard to fit a claimspace that's "pure TP"

#

only other TP potential is a sort of Town Arso mass TP thing

#

like this

#

Thematically, Fortify fits BG more, while this fits Crus more lol

south bolt
#

(honestly crus is tk, but a literal town killing xd) /j

mental vine
#

when's the next daily rework discussion Antics

shut roostBOT
#

Reply to: @mental vine
when's the next daily rework discussion Antics
#1427747910787006474 exists now

mental vine
shut roostBOT
#

I don't see the point in reviving old threads here

#

@glossy lark Hi
Can you come close and lock this
Thanks

mental vine
#

so sad!

shut roostBOT
#

Reply to: @mental vine
so sad!
Dont go reviving old posts that already served their purpose