📖lore-chat

[floral stump]

I need to dive deeper into this

[mental ermine]

yes

There's many "later" in the kingdom/dynasty names as they kept reusing them

[floral stump]

Will watch about this later

[royal plover]

Wait 3 kingdom era come first before this game?

[mental ermine]

Like most people would think of the three kingdoms Shu, so historians would refer to the new Shu state as Later Shu

[mental ermine]

700 years ago

[royal plover]

So kingdom anime in qin dynasty > 3 kingdom > wwm

[mental ermine]

Yes

With a lot in between of course

[mental ermine]

Kingdom anime is before qin dynasty actually, china not unifed yet

It's in the final years of the warring states

[royal plover]

Red bar mean unite

[mental ermine]

Jin yong's demi gods and semi devils also take place in Song dynasty

[royal plover]

Its crazy china already war in ancient time

Like really ancient

[mental ermine]

Humans already war in ancient times

[vague shoal]

Wars have been around since ancient times though

Rome knows about it a lot

[mental ermine]

I mean, rome is not that ancient yet

Ancient egypt, etc etc

[royal plover]

First dynasty of china much older then rome i think

[mental ermine]

Xia is still not confirmed to exist

But Shang Dynasty definitely did

[vague shoal]

Ok the greek states then

sparta and stuff

[mental ermine]

Greek states are around zhou dynasty time

[royal plover]

I think china the first land in asia exist right before, korea and japan, middle eastern a thing

[mental ermine]

Middle east is one of the oldest civilisations

Assyria, babylonia etc

If you count egypt in them as well

[royal plover]

In dynasty warrior game there 4th force join war later, jin.

So jin win the war then

[mental ermine]

The Jin (sima clan) usurped cao Wei

[paper rampart]

Egypt is older than China

[mint spade]

But Egypt don't got 4000 years of Chinese love to mix into water to rehydrate half dead Japanese boys in martial arts tournaments

[paper rampart]

you expect civilization to have history recorded?

[royal plover]

Who is tang xinci, is she big player later.

A woman we debate above the tample roof

[paper rampart]

[paper rampart]

just a woman we cant afford to argue, like many women today.

[mint spade]

Those four debaters the debate cards are based off of are joke characters

[royal plover]

How about lunar goddess li zhenzhen, why tian ying looking her corpse?

[paper rampart]

Busy playing cards.

[royal plover]

Wtf

[paper rampart]

[mental ermine]

He's trolling

There's a pinned post about this

[paper rampart]

[foggy tiger]

Don't dive too deep u'll get lost and never come back to reality

Think about when u young how long it take to learn the history they teach in school and how many year was that

China history like 3k years

[balmy pewter]

[next hinge]

Where is Chinese servers at in the lore they map so big

[foggy tiger]

how is their map big? they only have 2 more area than us

if u looking at big map, that just dev concept. u see all the area all black. means not design yet

[next hinge]

Ohhhhh

[buoyant radish]

[fresh birch]

Anyplace I can read/watch the whole story?

[fast summit]

youtube

[whole light]

[limpid fox]

WWMgirl on youtube

[timber nebula]

Wwmgirl and williamsweeb they both know their stuff

[royal plover]

Its took me long time ti realize, this is dalang, dalang and the owner are the one dancing at general shrine at very beginning of the game

[upbeat sparrow]

Hm

[stable cosmos]

[unkempt pumice]

Best quality on bilibili if u can understand chinese

They did for 3 years 🤣

His body fell into the yellow river, which is kinda poetic since qingquan means “clear spring” and the yellow river is known for being murky

Btw here’s the namesake for the palace of annals:
||its name in chinese is 春秋别馆, 春秋 here is alluding not to the period but instead the Mencius quote “知我罪我，其惟春秋”, which translates means “Of my virtues and vice, only time will tell”, note that originally it refers to the confucius book but later developed this new meaning. This is fitting for Tian Ying as he killed many good people to advance his goal, which he saw as the greater good||

[vague shoal]

I refuse to believe chu’s dead

[unkempt pumice]

He is canonically dead

[vague shoal]

Nah man yi dao probably thought he’s dead, some old hermit picked him up from the river and saved him cope

[unkempt pumice]

Also he didn’t “tank a hit for yi dao” but died of the plague

Also u cant pick a person up from the yellow river that shi too dangerous and no one is stupid enough to even come near it

||it killed zhu yu btw||

this is why they have the great fish to help control it

[rugged trout]

ma

[mental ermine]

When was that?

[unkempt pumice]

When jin took over liao, song took the opportunity

[mental ermine]

Ah yes, they didnt even manage to get all of it back

[foggy tiger]

I thought he was dead dead. For sure dead not coming back. But then they release video with his face. Why make a face if they aren't gonna use it? So my guess is he will pop up in future, whether as a flash back or alive in the present

[half hinge]

Hiya! I saw that you mentioned Chinese names so I think you might be familiar with something I found during exploration. Back when I visited General's Shrine and talked to Zhao Dali, there was a moment when he mentioned about fall of Chunqiu Estate 3 years ago and death of its owner, Master Han (could it be someone from Later Han dynasty?). A bit further I met a fisherman who told about fall of Spring Tower during the war. Are the two structures connected somehow, in your opinion?

I made some research and Google kinda showed that Chunqiu is a word for Spring and Summer Autumn so I was curious if there was any structure called Spring Tower in the history or any reference later in game? I'm still in Qinghe, almost ready to jump into the well (these 2 weeks were spent on venturing to the northern parts and exploring peacefully) ^^

[mental ermine]

chunqiu is spring and autumn, it was a cover for the base of the hanging blades of later zhou

[half hinge]

I see, I'm kinda more interested in this Spring Tower tbh and whether it was relevant, connected to something bigger or just non-important structure destroyed in the war. I didn't visit Palace of Annals yet and I think that Chunqiu Estate is there, right? Maybe I'll find some ruins of towers in the game and hope someone is gonna tell more about it 😄

I can't send screenshots yet but dialogue line was
"Wang Duolu: Perch, oh perch... too bad the Spring Tower was destroyed in the war."

[proper orbit]

It would be helpful if the text was in Chinese. I have a feeling the Chinese characters would give us more clues .

Because "Spring Tower" could mean a lot of things in Chinese history.

[half hinge]

I'll try and get it in a bit with Chinese language, maybe it's bad translation after all
Thanks for hints, I'm not that familiar with Chinese history and if there are many more references to the phrase, original text might give us some more info
I'll think about how to post it tho, not sure what level I should be to show screens here

[proper orbit]

Many of us here are interested in the historical aspects of the setting too. Feel free to share your thoughts. I'm discovering new things in the game every day too.

[half hinge]

I will, thanks. NGL game sucked me in completely with story narrative and events in the background. I try figure out timeline for events sometimes, tiny insignificant phrase from random NPC can pick my interest any time ^^

[mystic idol]

It’s a flash back to the fight he and Han Xiangxun had which broke the bell

[proper orbit]

I feel like this is the best way to play this game! No rushing, just appreciating the tiny details and soaking in the game world. Because the game is imbued with so many historical elements, this is actually a great way to get acquainted with this lesser known period (in the west) of Chinese history.

I love the details of how Aunt Han's people made the wine. They had the whole production pipeline put in the game so delicately.

You can practically see the whole village working together to brew the urns of wine.

This is a huge contrast to medieval Europe's industry and land distribution system. You can look into the vast differences between the people's way of life in the two continents.

[foggy tiger]

That's the palace of annals

[proper orbit]

This is not to say that the game shows us an accurate picture of rural life back then, but I'd like to think that a lot of work and thought had been put into showing us what the devs think rural life is back then.

[half hinge]

I heard so much about how not to jump into the well in Evercare Clinic before exploring more so I took advice and went to the northern parts of Qinghe, it was so much fun to see Wildmane Ranch, explore Buddha Fort, Bloomveil Monastery, Halo Peak, check some events connected to Mercyheart Town (loved the idea about Infernal Dungeon and The Five Rats opposing the invaders) and Flower Expanse. I was very interested in what happened to Miaoshan from the moment he was mentioned in General's Shrine.

[proper orbit]

I see you're really enjoying the exploration aspects of this game!

[half hinge]

Still not sure who had forbidden Buddhism there and was responsible for the fall of Mercyheart Town.

[vague shoal]

Youre never getting out of qinghe

It's still the tip of the iceberg

[half hinge]

If Kaifeng is the same in the sense of exploration and interactions with local folk of region, I think it'll take me months to see everything 🤣

[proper orbit]

My goodness... Kaifeng is.....

breathtaking... compared to Qinghe

I feel like... Qinghe is all serene and tranquil... and vast... but the minute you step into Kaifeng... I felt like a country bumpkin taking my first steps into a vast bustling city..

almost overwhelming. there are vendors yelling everywhere, peddling their wares and food, and there are people gossiping at every corner..

but there are also parts of Kaifeng that are just... solemn... like the government districts.

In terms of immersion, I think the devs really conveyed the atmosphere and contrast between rural and urban very well

[mystic idol]

once you fully explore qinghe it’ll be revealed wrt buddhism & what happened to mercyheart

[mystic idol]

Best way to do it, since Kaifeng is the capital of the current dynasty we’re in

[proper orbit]

Are you guys familiar with the Water Margin novel series?

If you love the lore in this game, you might love this novel series.

They are set in the same Song Dynasty and features Kaifeng a lot.

Alongside "Journey to the West" and "Romance of the Three Kingdoms", " Water Margin" is considered one of the 4 main literary classics of China

Interestingly, these novels were all authored during the Ming Dynasty, with the exception of the fourth classics, "Dream of the Red Chamber", which was authored during the Qing Dynasty

[mental ermine]

@half hinge spring and autumn in chinese is also translated to annals in english depending on context

See the chinese classic "spring and autumn annals"

With the seasons marking the passing years

[half hinge]

I agree, it's the best way to explore the area. Lore, story and exploration are really the features to get me more interested in game, other aspects are viable too but these three made the most significance to me for now. I'm not sure if I figured out but was quite a shock to think that A'da (who we healed in the cave and he guided us straight into treasure which he wanted to hoard for himself) bears the same name as NPC who steals items from local community and we use Meridian Touch on him and bring him to justice.

I'm also still impressed about Li Wa's story and obsessed a bit about finding his whereabouts (||I know he ran away from Blissful Retreat after beheading street urchin but I'm kinda distrusting that he wanted to kill our MC and take upon our life. Literally local folk know how Young Master looks like, how behave so it wouldn't be reasonable to imitate us. I think that Li Wa just freaked out and took urchin for Southern Tang envoys to apprehend him so his madness got ahead of him and he panicked.||). I kinda followed that street urchin before arriving to Blissful Retreat and saw how he met with beggar boy so when I saw the kid around my abode, I knew what it was about - to stagger me so his brother could take a role of Li Wa's benefactor and get off with full pockets as a appreciation for saving "mountain frog". 😄

||Most likely street urchin didn't remember the full phrase to repeat in front of well, so Li Wa panicked that someone came to cut his head||.

[proper orbit]

Wow. You're definitely way more into the little details than me. I didn't pay as much attention to the NPCs than you did and certainly didn't remember so many of their names! But you are making me want to do that from now on. It seems like doing it this way can be quite enjoyable. I am envious

It's a shame we can't switch between Chinese and English text easily because I am sure I will remember them a lot better if I know their Chinese names. The thing is, so many of them sound like they have similar names when written in English.. For example, Li Wa can be written in different ways, with different characters, each of which gives us very different meanings.

[half hinge]

Thank you kindly for information, I'll be mindful to look for any fallen tower there when exploring Palace of Annals ^^
There's a lot of mysteries around to check, hope I also get to that structure hidden below Sweetwine Tower when you squeeze through crevice and use elevator (lovely sight when you look to the left and see a hidden villa with 2 statues there), I'm yet to get Hidden Tower Key. 😄

[half hinge]

It might be the case for real. A'da the thief might be someone else than A'da we found in the cave tbh when looking into how the same names might be written differently in Chinese and mean something else, the one in the cave was wearing Aureate Pavilion's outfit (I think) so I didn't trust him from the start.

[foggy tiger]

It's probably written that way to sound phonetically identical to frog in a well. I'd do that too if I were the writer.

The writing is incredibly deep for a game with levels and levels. The storyline and environment is so rich too. It's probably the best game I've ever played so far

Not to mention the soundtrack

Stepping into velvet shade pavilion still gives me chills every time

[proper orbit]

do you play it with Chinese text or English?

[foggy tiger]

I play with English text Chinese voice

[proper orbit]

Same. I think if you understand Mandarin Chinese, Chinese voice is essential

The meaning in Chinese voice almost always varies from the English dialogue in some ways, sometimes quite significantly

[foggy tiger]

Yeah but the English text isn't quite enough to convey good meaning sometimes. And occasionally, it kind of messes u up. There's a small side quest where u learn some kaifeng dialect and I should have switched to Chinese text there

[proper orbit]

Unfortunately, it is very difficult to convey the same meaning and emotions in English from Chinese words and phrases...

[foggy tiger]

Kaifeng dialect sounds a bit similar to shanghai dialect

[proper orbit]

I think it is possible to compress a whole story in a short phrase in Chinese.. but it might be impossible to do so in English..

It is quite difficult to explain this phenomenon

[foggy tiger]

Well linguistic majors who study this thing would say Chinese is a dense language. But idk about all that I'm just having fun as a casual player

[half hinge]

Likewise! Chinese audio was a way to go from the start because English translation lacked a bit, we didn't have audio tracks for voices and some NPCs weren't voiced properly in English (I didn't know that Gu Le or Qi Sheng were singing, English translation showed only plain text), not really sure if English voice acting improved (there were some patches along the way) but I got used to Chinese audio tracks, English subtitles are enough to understand. ^^

Still English translation has a lot of field to improve, the catacombs of General's Shrine and that monument in front of general's statue was so confusing when text on the tablet mentioned Lord of Jin, Prince Jin and it was hard for me to figure out whose this statue is dedicated to. I was trying to figure out if Wang Qing was actually lord of Later Jin or did general tried helping the "prince" in the northern campaign to retrieve Sixteen Prefectures of Yanyun.

[proper orbit]

The text for some letters in chinese text were written in the old style and a lot of modern chinese writers would have difficulty understanding it.. but when you switch to english.. it is almost written like everyday english.

[foggy tiger]

Yea. When I play games I prefer using the original voice. Actually same when I watch foreign language movie or drama. The original acting is usually better than voice actor at conveying nuance

[mental ermine]

English is terrible for translating chinese titles

[timber nebula]

oh god no wonder that threw me off 💀 they need our help i swear

[half hinge]

I remember we didn't have a lot of voices on the character sheets (Journal > World > Character > Voices) in English and they were added a bit later with patches, Wayfarer's Chinese song was there from the start but Gu Le's sad voice while singing wasn't present for sure or Qi Sheng singing a melody about harmony was just a plain text (I thought for a moment he was crazy to mumble to himself), not sure if it's available already in game because I liked Chinese voice acting so I stayed with it ever since. 😄

Text is entirely different matter, I saw many inconsistencies about events from 946 CE so it was confusing when Lie Yan died, narrative of NPCs changes from time to time, once it's 16 years ago, then we have a decade ago, as well as "over 10 years ago", Eight Heroes of Hedong, Eight Talents of Hedong, Wang Qing being called a general, then lord or prince so it's very confusing for player without knowledge of Chinese history and events, I support myself with Google all time when I search for information what happened for real and who was involved (that tablet under General's Shrine gave me a lot of trouble at the start, I thought that statue was dedicated to the prince of Later Jin in the beginning, got to enlightenment later after few NPCs mentioned that shrine was built to honor Wang Qing (when he was still alive so most likely when he created Northern Vow) and Lie Yan built underground shrine for him to protect the unbroken statue of general). 😄

[slate juniper]

Would it make sense lorewise to have a playable demonic/unorthodox sect?

[vague shoal]

We already have midnight blade?

[slate juniper]

Huh I thought they were just the morally gray dudes but still good faction

[vague shoal]

Which is an unorthodox sect

[slate juniper]

True true how about a demonic one?

[vague shoal]

Maybe aureate pavillion but they are more like a military special ops organization

But yeah demonic sects wouldnt make sense in a wuxia setting usually

Because there's no dark magic in wuxia

Aureate pavillion is close cause they experiment on human bodies to create dream puppets

[half hinge]

I changed the game's language to Chinese and caught Wang Duolu again.
Not really sure if it helps somehow, but there you go.

Chinese (Simplified):
王多鲈: 鲈鱼啊, 鲈鱼啊...... 我又惦记春明楼的翡翠蒸鲈了。

English:
Wang Duolu: Perch, oh perch... too bad the Spring Tower was destroyed in the war.

I think that 春明楼 is that Spring Tower from English translation (Google tells it's something like Chūn Míng Lóu)

[mystic idol]

Sounds like a food place

[proper orbit]

My goodness, the English translation is so so different from the Chinese text.

In the Chinese text, Duolu was simply reminiscing about a dish served by Chun Ming Lou (Spring Tower).. Steamed Jade Perch

The Chinese text didn't say anything about the place being destroyed in a war

[mystic idol]

^

[proper orbit]

And at first glance, I think many English speakers would not have thought of a fish when they read "perch"...

First thing that came to mind was a bird's perching...

Also, if you noticed, in the Chinese text, the word in Duolu's name, "Lu" 鲈 is the same character for the perch fish's name in Chinese.. also "Lu" 鲈.. and the fish "Lu" 鲈 is why he thought of the dish 翡翠蒸鲈 from the Spring Tower, which apparently is a restaurant...

So.. it probably has nothing to do with the Palace of Annals... and probably insignificant lore-wise.. just a fisher who misses a dish in a favourite restaurant that got destroyed in the war

Now I'm wondering HOW MUCH i missed because I used English text instead of Chinese text..

Probably significant losses in translation...

[proper orbit]

If you can afford to, I would recommend keeping Chinese text on.. along with the Chinese audio

The experience seems vastly different compared to gameplay with English text on

I only recommend that because you are the type of players who care deeply about the lore and story

[half hinge]

Okay, thank you so much for checking it out. My thoughts were circling around Kunming (as it's been considered City of Eternal Spring) and it had Twin Pagodas back in 940s (as much as Google suggested), was part of Kingdom of Dali and located around Yunnan so I thought maybe it was a honorific mention about one of them by Wang Duolu but Kunming didn't seem to be affected by Khitans in that period (if ever at all). ^^

I would have loved to stay with Chinese subtitles if I knew any basics about language. Sadly I don't understand Chinese at all so it would be a hurdle with quests, story, it wouldn't be fun if I took long time to use dictionaries to understand basic words (especially when Pause doesn't work everywhere when even reading English text is a challenge sometimes because text is scrolled too fast) 😄

[proper orbit]

True. Well, the English text isn't bad. It gets the job done. But it loses a lot of the original meaning, I think.

[final fossil]

Fellerz i'm confused.

I came across one tiktok explaining the difference between Xianxia and Wuxia and based on that, it seems WWM actually falls on the Xianxia genre (Qi, sorcery, flying, dragons, immortality, etc). Is that tiktok correct or am I just stupit?

[proper orbit]

WWM is, in my opinion, leaning more towards the Wuxia side of the spectrum. The names of the two reveal the key characteristics of their respective worlds. Xianxia contains the word xian (仙) which is the character representing deities, immortals, and mostly supernatural stuff, whereas Wuxia's Wu (武), which is the word for martial, represents martial arts and jianghu culture.

WWM has some xianxia elements in it, but I think the wuxia elements stand out more.

So I don't think it fits neatly in one category or the other, but rather a blend of the two, with it leaning more towards Wuxia.

Actually, if you really need to define it as one or the other, I would say Wuxia. The Xianxia elements are very limited, like ghosts, spirits, zombies.. flying through the skies, but that's really about it.

You could take all those away and the plot and story of WWM would still stand solidly.

[mystic idol]

WWM is wuxia, xianxia is rooted in more magic/divine elements

Qi is not a xianxia element either, it’s inner force (or however you want to interpret it in english)

[frozen knot]

Xianxia powerscaling is quite different from wuxia so if you've read any xianxia novel you'd know what im talking about lol

people casually slapping mountains out of existence and even stuff going into the planetary scale... wwm is definitely wuxia

[timber nebula]

Chinese voice acting in this game is superb

[little moat]

WWM is Wuxia, and it’s also promoted as a wuxia game

[bitter holly]

Best wuxia series that has wwm vibes?

[half hinge]

It really is, I like it much more than English (but English one wasn't bad, just lacked audio tracks that Chinese voices had), emotions, intonation of words and singing of some NPCs adds a lot to the general reception of environment.

[timber nebula]

xianxia is black myth wukong for example

[timber nebula]

xd that one leaf voice acting broke me

[timber nebula]

hrmh thunderbolt fantasy

[half hinge]

I'm yet to experience it (it's quest from Kaifeng, right? I heard about it already) but there are many more interesting voices. "Man in the well" played his role perfectly, local folk of Heaven's Pier's brewery making a wine hit the spot, Dream Puppet from Mercyheart Monastery scared me a lot when it turned around and attacked (when I came closer) 😄

[thorny timber]

What duh hail dat man doing in the well and why he end up with no head -.-

[half hinge]

It's not Li Wa who ended up headless ^^

[thorny timber]

wasn’t that supposed to be us or something

[crimson plinth]

Does anyone know if there’s actually a war that will happen in Kaifeng? And if so - is revelry hall finally destroyed?.

[thorny timber]

Swear every npc I look at look like us

[timber nebula]

Nah revelry hall gets destroyed when the Huns attack

[mystic idol]

|| No, he’s the guard of the Khitan envoy who was traveling through Qinghe to Jiangnan. TianYing killed the envoy in the toilet while he was supposed to be guarding him so now he’s hiding in the well due to trauma/to protect himself ||

[timber nebula]

Yeah they really do get amazing voice work

[thorny timber]

Is tianying a gud or bad guy.

[mystic idol]

It depends on how you look at things and from which perspective

[timber nebula]

If you ever played DND that's how you should view the wuxia world

[half hinge]

it's open to personal interpretation, my thought on it is that ||Li Wa doesn't trust anyone and while Young Master knows the truth - it might serve Li Wa greatly if we inform everyone that headless person, wearing our red robe, is supposed to be him - "criminal" who was hunted for years, ended up dead. It would make the Southern Tang bounty hunters' job done and Li Wa could live peacefully now||. I think it all played in his favor and street urchin paid a price for his greed.

[thorny timber]

By rolling a nat 20?

[timber nebula]

They have different alignments but our character is more on the good side

[timber nebula]

By thinking more of jianghu martial artists as adventurers in a sense

[thorny timber]

Oh I see

[mystic idol]

Oh you’re referring to the body that was found after he climbed out

My bad I misinterpreted your question @thorny timber

[thorny timber]

I thought I was always an adventurer

[half hinge]

Li Wa could never assume identity of Young Master, I think. Too many people are aware of our upringing, behavioral patterns and it would be revealed quite fast if he acted as MC.

[timber nebula]

Yeah so in that perspective you should get ready for some grey characters. Since we're trying to retake yanyun tianying is lawful evil assassin

And he's on our side trying to retake yanyun by infiltration

[thorny timber]

Does that mean we’ll have to fight him again -.-

[timber nebula]

That we don't know

[thorny timber]

I mighta interpreted that wrong lol

[timber nebula]

And most likely no

[thorny timber]

Well where’s our dad who went to go grab milk.

[timber nebula]

He's not our dad

[thorny timber]

I know I was being funny lol

[timber nebula]

He's our unc

And he went to grab a smoke

[thorny timber]

Did auntie go grab a smoke too

[half hinge]

I might have met Tian Ying already (despite not seeing him), there was a mysterious person talking to me from behind the walls of Peace Bell Tower at the top floor after I repaired Bell of Demoncalm. ^^

[thorny timber]

Cuz she pretty much fkd blissful retreat 💀

[timber nebula]

100%

[timber nebula]

That's probably Chu's memory, tian ying, or Chu himself but it's mystery

[timber nebula]

She didn't, aureate pavillion did

[thorny timber]

She did know they were gonna light up blissful retreat before leaving or just decided to leave

[half hinge]

That's interesting take too, I didn't consider Chu's memory been awakened after hitting the bell 😮

[timber nebula]

Since it's wuxia reliving memories and tapping them is a thing

[timber nebula]

Plot, writing stuff I believe

Is it good writing, it's good enough I guess

[thorny timber]

Is ruby really gone. 😭

[timber nebula]

Yeah

[thorny timber]

tell the devs to make a Time Machine I wanna show them a thing or two

[timber nebula]

She dead

[thorny timber]

https://tenor.com/view/lost-go-back-jack-we-have-to-go-back-gif-5469258

[timber nebula]

You ain't the only one who miss em

She our partner we the twin wanderers 😭

[thorny timber]

https://tenor.com/view/enrage-shouting-ahh-helpless-hopeless-gif-13071268

[timber nebula]

Even china complained hard

[thorny timber]

Devs probably just laughing evilly

[timber nebula]

I mean props to them though they didn't fold and make collabs from other games to make it weird

[thorny timber]

I like how everyone found her annoying in the beginning and then they found out so quick 💀

[unkempt pumice]

spoiler: ||hexi takes place in the past||

[timber nebula]

I liked her from the beginning 🙂‍↕️ she was just a kid who wanted to be a martial artist 😭 she even copied our books that aunt Han told us to do in secret, and the goose bag from the outfit was made by her

[thorny timber]

She was that kid sister you’ve always wanted and now we out for blud

https://tenor.com/view/sad-cry-crying-shower-private-gif-8466975

[timber nebula]

The yellow river literally takes lives annually

[timber nebula]

Aureate pavillion is on sight

[thorny timber]

The devs are on sight too

[meager lion]

hey we trying to make a community need someone to help other players for build and stuff lmk if u wanna join the community anyone is welcome shoot me a dm for discord inv 😄

[half hinge]

I saw nothing 🙈
Ruby is still with Beard Guang in my iteration of game and supposed to get back to Heaven's Pier later to enjoy First Jar Banquet. Should I have taken her with me instead? xD

[unkempt pumice]

Spring and Autumn has 2 extended layers of meanings:

• Initially it means the seasons
• Then Confucius wrote a book abt history that took place in BC770 to BC481, so that period is refered as Spring and Autumn
• Later the word can be used to referred to time itself

"Spring Tower" doesn't exist in the game or at least yet, also due to translation, it might as well means spring-as-in-water-origin and not necessarily the season

[thorny timber]

Whoops sorry lmao I dunno how to do the marker out thingamajigger

[timber nebula]

Zhu yu died from the fungus sickness I believe

[half hinge]

Thank you so much for information, we kinda checked more in game and concluded that Wang Duolu meant some kind of restaurant which was probably gone by the time when the game starts. ^^
#📖lore-chat message

[unkempt pumice]

yeah

[timber nebula]

Or was it the flood

💀 I forgor.

[thorny timber]

Is the imperial palace gonna tell us how zhao and his bro became emperors or whatever

[unkempt pumice]

they are already

[timber nebula]

Zhao became emperor and dressed up as a merchant to get close with common folk

He's not the best emperor ever but who is lmao

[thorny timber]

Whats with his brother tho, zhongyuan or whatever

[timber nebula]

Dude is torn between living the xia life and his duty to the court so he's just doing the court duty

The real big bad is an abusive member of the court who was chill originally but was assassinated and replaced and now he's big bad 😞

As for why John riverman is important it all ties in

You can check out williamsweeb for the summary of the lore

And then wwm girl for a deep dive

[paper rampart]

The Khitan won in the end.

[mystic idol]

His brother (the kaifeng prefect/purple robes guy/ZhongYuan) is Zhao Guangyi, you can also google him.

[sweet forge]

what is the lore behind the laughing mask?

[weak spindle]

crazy ngl

[north yacht]

crazy

[vague shoal]

She was assasinated during the flood

[paper rampart]

What

Why you can type that but i can’t

[unkempt pumice]

playlist?list=PLlD7SeKBB31eCOD5TQHVu7EhERADkCx5R (youtube dot com slash)
Canonical lore of big zhao

[naive bramble]

🀄 "Ask not where the River Master roams. Scales to dragons through pain and bones. Thrice they pass the Dragons Gate. The heroes path is not in vain."🀄

When will we locate the missing pendant to find out who we really are?

[unkempt pumice]

not before end of story

MC might discover who they are before that but not the pendant

cuz all the assassins are here for the MC, thats why unc jiang stole it to protect him

[paper rampart]

If you play maplestory before, the pendant is the same as black mage. Gotta wait 10 years.

[naive bramble]

tears fall into noodle bowl adding to the salty flavor

[thorny timber]

Thank you. Ily for the info :p

[unkempt pumice]

fun fact, jin zhongyuan is a pun for "entering the midland", hence his ambition to conquer as we see in the kaifeng chapter

[thorny timber]

I did not know that his name was a pun lol

interesting

What about uhhh big zhao?

[unkempt pumice]

he doesnt have one

[old coral]

What's the joke about goose in this game? Why are they all Regular Show gooses lol, how did that came to be?

https://tenor.com/view/mordecai-sandwich-geese-gif-17190118

[mystic idol]

its a meme made by the devs, so I guess the community adopted it

[old coral]

Im more so asking why the game puts the joke in the lore in the first place

Like why goose of all animals, yknow?

[mystic idol]

|| Big Zhao is Zhao KuangYin the founding emperor of Song dynasty ||

[alpine path]

They are quite common in rural areas and actually quite scary. Don’t mess with them

[thorny timber]

Ohhh wow lol

Will we see karate chopping ducks in this game

[paper rampart]

Every time this name appears, I googled and listened to this classic.

我身骑白马 走三关
我改换素衣 回中原
放下西凉 没人管
我一心只想 王宝钏

[thorny timber]

https://tenor.com/view/rushing-blood-and-iron-b%26i-roblox-gif-14431967577580968602

[mystic idol]

This poem very relevant to Hexi btw

[paper rampart]

While it’s a meme, this is actually real as all geese are god dam territorial.

[mystic idol]

Very true, when I was studying the geese on campus would bully students, it got so bad one time the entrance to a final exam hall was closed because the geese wouldn’t move and would hiss at anyone who came near

[paper rampart]

https://tenor.com/view/jon-hamm-jonhamm-jon-jon-hamm-dancing-club-dancing-gif-9837026988511234852

[old coral]

Woah so they're really that scary irl? interesting.... never knew that since im a cityfolk and I don't think I've been anywhere with alot of gooses

[paper rampart]

Imagine dogs but with rabies. That’s geese.

[mystic idol]

If you walk near a mother goose on the right (or wrong) season they’ll hiss at you 😭

[old coral]

so you're telling me even regular show wasn't exaggerating how screwed up gooses are?

[paper rampart]

[old coral]

Wild as hell lol, them gooses are all demon lords even in irl apparently

thanks for the context, everyone 🙏

[paper rampart]

I can say geese are tsundere too

[royal plover]

I see u never getting attack by goose irl

[twilit pawn]

Pls help

||Who the hell is lucky seventeen? Like whats his story?||

[old coral]

yeah I haven't, im a city boy and never been to anywhere with alot of gooses lol

[paper rampart]

We have tons of cities people playing games so it’s pretty understandable

[little moat]

Geese are very scary irl, especially when you have food on you

[paper rampart]

Just a child that got thrown away because everyone else died.

[royal plover]

They still attack u even u not bother them lol

[old coral]

💀 what the hell, from the sounds of it, theyre kinda like hippos in term of being menacing

Straight up picking fights left and right and attacking for the hell of it

[paper rampart]

#📖lore-chat message

[mystic idol]

and in case for english translation, the chunqiu villa = palace of annals

[paper rampart]

Remember to thank @mint pivot She’s the reason I understand the character more deeply.

https://discord.com/channels/1180042348755963924/1180056797906735164

[paper rampart]

They are worse than hippo because they can fly and run other than swimming and diving.

[old coral]

I am not built for the rural streets 🥀

[mental ermine]

Move to australia and get some training.

[little moat]

Or move to Canada, face the Canadian geese

[paper rampart]

Hell no, I dont want to see 10kg insect

Facing geese is better than Australia insects

Trust me bro

[mint pivot]

Thank you I’m so touched

[leaden quartz]

Scary stuff! Geese are no joke

[paper rampart]

[naive bramble]

The real LORE of why geese are our end game nemesis "goose liver pâté, or pâté de foie gras, is a luxurious French delicacy made from the fattened liver of geese" the real vendetta is so meta

WE stuff the FOOD down their throats to make their livers so fat that they burst!

[paper rampart]

This is an unhealthy delicacy. It is equally to eating 100 cups of boba teas with 300% sugar.

[thorny timber]

In China are there really big wrestling suits :p

[mint spade]

I have terrible news for you regarding a hippo's ability to run...

[final fossil]

Yeah i think this is the best explanation. There's definitely some Xianxia elements mixed in but I didn't question it's Wuxia genre until I got to Roaring Sands and saw the ||REAL dragon skeleton, which is a celestial being||

[paper rampart]

It’s ok. They can run for all I care. They can’t turn well.

They wanna turn, they gonna drift first before turning

[lunar nebula]

Which Sect has the most tragic lore?

[paper rampart]

Recently Raging tides and 16 years ago for well of heaven

[lunar nebula]

Can you explain to me the lore, please. Also do we know which Sect Leaders are the strongest?

[paper rampart]

||Why do I answer that question… I immediately regretted my decision…||

[lunar nebula]

https://tenor.com/view/tell-me-what-happened-that-night-calvin-jordan-kingdom-business-what-occurred-that-night-bet-networks-gif-5840651663516741717

[paper rampart]

Long story bro. I need a week.

[spring thorn]

for zheng e ||am i suppose to complete twelve years of feud first before fighting him? If i did would i be able to meet current shen yilun in the jianghu legacy||

[timber nebula]

i did twelve years first

side story first then main quest 🙂‍↕️

[timber nebula]

battle of zhongdudu bridge had well of heaven boys n girls massacred

then the khitan displayed their heads in a grissly sight

then the well of heaven lead was like "grrr"

there he created a martial arts for the katana dao and his greatsword dao

to cut khitan heads

[paper rampart]

@lunar nebula

If you want source, get it from world and sect in your menu

[timber nebula]

never forgor zhong dudu bridge

[pure anvil]

for the man in yellow at the end of the kaifeng questline ||that was big zhao right?||

[bitter token]

Yes

[pure anvil]

kk thats what i thought

ty

[mental ermine]

never forget shi jingtang

[pure anvil]

🫡

[bitter token]

The real emperor name is Zhao Xintong, which is big zhao's name

[paper rampart]

Wang Qing lookalike

Without the head of course. General Shrine

[timber nebula]

he lookin kinda wild rn

[mental ermine]

not as wild as giving 16 prefectures away and calling some guy 30 years his junior father

[timber nebula]

16 notes of lmao

[paper rampart]

Tbh the moment they lost yanyun, they already lost half of china for millenniums to come. Because once captured, difficult to recover and recapture again (qin did that, tang did last)

Yanyun is basically sauron ring

[mental ermine]

yup.. losing yanyun opens the central plains to direct attack.... no datong, no yanshan

there's rivers between youzhou and Song but it's just harder to defend than mountain passes

[scarlet yarrow]

Is Murong Yuan still alive? Is the one where she wears a mask before or after her campaign?

[paper rampart]

After

[scarlet yarrow]

Oh okay. That's good to hear

[paper rampart]

She go by rong yuan now according to @unkempt pumice

[scarlet yarrow]

bruce wayne/batman ahh name change

Last question. Ain't Well of Heaven and Mohist pretty much the same in philosophy? Except the science part

[paper rampart]

No. Look at ji sheng and yi hao.

[unkempt pumice]

jocks and nerds type shi

[unkempt pumice]

well of heaven isnt pacifist tho

[timber nebula]

Her 'dying' muright her murongs

[timber nebula]

Losing yanyun opens up to creating the best game rn

[royal plover]

Are unfated tian and tian ying different person?

[mystic idol]

Yes,
tian ying = 田英
unfated tian = 天不收

unfated tian is a close friend and confidant of aunt han

[royal plover]

Cant they make another name without confusing player

Didnt tian ying is her friend too

[mystic idol]

I think that would cause confusion for translators/duo language gamers etc haha

[mystic idol]

She doesn’t know Tian Ying. They know of each other, but are not acquainted

[royal plover]

Didnt they run that face changing thing together

So what unfated tian in chinese? There no way his real name is unfated

[mystic idol]

|| unfated Tian and Han Xiangxun were the ones who ran it, with Han Xiangxun knowing how to do it/being the one in charge and unfated Tian being kind of like the assistant, Tian Ying stole half of Han Xiangxun’s technique book while Chu Qingquan and her were fighting (in a plan/ruse by Chu and Tianying to get her skills, since she refused to use them to change Chu’s face) ||

[mystic idol]

天不收

[royal plover]

All this time im so wrong,

Tian ying the one who had evercare clinic right, bc the dungeon is under his clinic si i though this tian who run it with han

[mystic idol]

That’s unfated tian

[royal plover]

Btw how to put spoiler?

[mystic idol]

tian ying is out and about in Qinghe, or not depending on where you are in your exploration

[mystic idol]

|| two of these around your spoiler text

[royal plover]

Wtf, im lost

[mystic idol]

How far are you along main story quest and exploration of qinghe?

[royal plover]

Already finish with qianye boss

[vague shoal]

MSQ has nothing to do with tian ying

You need to complete dark surge

[mystic idol]

ahhh then you’ve only finished the main story. You need to do exploration to learn about Tian Ying

er yes, dark surge*

[royal plover]

Yeah im lost, bc i thought they are same person

[mystic idol]

nope, different people

[royal plover]

So which tian connect with wraith village?

[mystic idol]

Tian Ying unless I’m messing up the English to Chinese translation

[vague shoal]

Either look up youtube to complete dark surge to learn about tian ying or read the pinned tian ying lore post in this chat

Cause explaining about him takes ages

[royal plover]

Wraith village connect with li zenzhen the moon goddess, and it connect with uncle tian/unfated tian quest.

So how it tian ying?

This quest

[mystic idol]

This is just a quest line

[vague shoal]

If you've finished lunar goddess story, tian ying is the guy who asked unfated tian to implant the eyes

[mystic idol]

If you don’t care for spoilers, here during this quest, ||Tian Ying requests Unfated Tian to bring a pair of eyes to Li Zhenzhen, as promised years ago by TianYing to her (you’ll find details of Li Zhenzhen and Tian Ying’s past connection in youtube/pinned post/dark surge as well)|| but wraith village the place is more so associated with TianYing due to his impact on the village in terms of significant events

[vague shoal]

As for why there's big lore behind it that is gonna take paragraphs to explain

[mystic idol]

fr, i didnt know there were pinned posts

its written pretty well

[vague shoal]

ngl bro mod should pin your summary of kaifeng story too lol

[mystic idol]

🙏🏻 too kind haha just hope its helpful to people who read it 😆

[half hinge]

Hiya! Could anyone with knowledge of Chinese language translate it for me?
This should finally establish the meaning of text, I talked about it yesterday with some people here.
It's stone tablet's writing from the catacombs of General's Shrine

晋王公清, 立燕北盟护清河, 泽之数季, 以 侠心为主。凡民有诉, 曲直径决于前。其之为民, 景行行止。后又领军北上, 为晋藩屏。民遥立生祠, 感念王公之迹。
丙午, 虏人寇边, 毁祠中王公及其下诸侠 士。切齿愤盈, 乃移像转碑于此。其后有来人, 若存侠骨, 当面王公而拜三次。飨哉! 愚生烈言拜立。

For reference with English translation:
The lord of Jin was a man of justice. He established the Northern Vow to protect Qinghe, leading the region with a chivalrous heart. When people had grievances, justice was swift. His service to the people was exemplary. Later, he led troops northward and became a shield for Jin. People erected a shrine in his honor, grateful for Prince Jin's deeds.

On the day of bingwu, barbarians raided the border and destroyed Prince Jin and his heroes in the shrine. With grinding teeth and full anger, we moved the statues and the tablet here. If anyone with a heroic spirit comes afterward, they should bow three times before our lord. Honor him!
Erected with reverence by Lie Yan.

Is this phrase 晋王公清 meaning "general Wang Qing of Jin"? I heard that 公 was a honorific high military rank and also the way how people called Dukes / Lords (might 晋王公清 also be phrased as "Lord Wang Qing of Jin" with utmost reverence there?)

[mystic idol]

Yes

the general’s shrine is a shrine in honour of wang qing

and uncle jiang takes mc here and makes them pay respects when mc was younger

[mint spade]

晋王公清 can be read as "Jin King Duke Qing", or "Qing, Duke Prince of Jin", which would of course refer to Wang Qing.

Jinwanggong(晋王公) is the title, Qing(清) is the given name

[wind sphinx]

Yes, I'm aware of it, also uncle Jiang made me bow before general's helmet in Bamboo Abode in the past. ^^
I was curious mainly about stone tablet's writing, Prince of Jin somehow steered me to the direction of actual monarchs like Shi Chonggui.

It kinda confused me earlier who this stone tablet was dedicated to.

I know the shrine is dedicated to general, no worries. Tbh I wondered if the stone tablet's English version is a mistranslation of some sort. ^^

[royal plover]

Are this face changing thing canon in real history?

[wind sphinx]

Thank you very much for explanation. Was Wang Qing called or considered Duke Prince of Jin by local folk? I thought he was only high-ranked army general and praised as hero, wasn't 100% sure if he was ranked as a noble.

(Sorry if I write something stupid, I'm not familiar with how Chinese culture treated high military ranks and whether they were raised to nobility rank or not, maybe that's why I'm so confused because prince in my mind is someone standing higher than military genius :D)

[mint spade]

Actually, good point.

Maybe your original interpretation is right.

"Jin's Wang Duke, Qing"

Ancient Chinese semantics is like that.

Wang Qing is given the posthumous title of Tai Fu, which is the "teacher to the imperial family" position which many Princes held

Important semantic is that "Prince" does not mean "son of a king" in this context, but a high ranking title given by the emperor to rule a land in their stead

And then I went fact checking and

[gritty sinew]

Guys is sleeping daoist one of the hanging blade member?

[mint spade]

It could also be interpreted as

"Prince of Jin's Duke, Qing" because he originally served the actual Prince of Jin

[vague shoal]

Nope he's not

[mint spade]

Well, now you know why the translation is horrible

[wind sphinx]

My first thought when reading stone tablet in English was like "What? Was Wang Qing a prince? Did he manage a whole Jin province?". Then I searched and found out that Shi Jingtang was at the power over the region and Shi Chonggui was posthumously known in the Liao dynasty as the Prince of Jin so I was confused about it ^^

[mint spade]

Yea, and Wang Qing originally served under Shi Chonggui

[wind sphinx]

I thought that stone tablet referred to what happened to Shi Chonggui tbh 😄

[mint spade]

So it could be "Prince of Jin's Duke(Shi Chonggui's general), Qing"

[wind sphinx]

Then thoughts went to "is that a statue of Shi Chonggui or Wang Qing? Why is Shi Chonggui's statue placed in the shrine of general Wang?" It was revealed later that it was a statue of general but I've been confused about this stone tablet since completing exploration in that place. So thank you very much for clearing all doubts, I really appreciate it.

@half hinge Thanks for talking about this topic

I learned a lot today, cheers!

[half hinge]

No problem, glad we talked about it a lot lately and kind people were ready to dispel this confusion
Thank you @mint spade and @mystic idol for clearing all stuff for us

[timber nebula]

see this character. 晋

it's in chinese

[sudden shard]

Guys, I just finished Kaifeng MSQ, and didn't understand a thing unlike qinghe dark surge 😭 please can someone help me. I know from some encounters that big zhao is emperor

[half hinge]

yeah, it spits a few meanings, Jin (Dynasty) as noun
3 other meanings as a verb (NGL promote to the rank of general fits there too) xD
guys above cleared the meaning of tablet and I'm fine with what I read already, I think

[timber nebula]

no i was just being funny idk chinese either

[half hinge]

if devs wrote "general Wang Qing" instead of "Prince / Lord of Jin" there, it wouldn't cause any doubts what they were meant to convey there

it is what it is, hoping for Still Shore to entertain me today~

[vague shoal]

#1425509033955164284 message this might help

[mental ermine]

There's another upcoming prince of jin btw

Our dear prefect

[sudden shard]

Is it on global release?

[mental ermine]

It's lil zhao (kaifeng prefect), he's given the title historically in AD 973, so not even in CN yet

10 years in game time to go

[sudden shard]

I see. Is lil zhao is Zhao Er? Meet him in winter gambit and who is master pu? Who is jingniang(?) the heroine of the opera in fairgounds

[mental ermine]

Master pu is actually the chancellor zhao pu, you'll come across this name from some of the side quests

Lil zhao is zhao er yes

Aka jin zhongyuan

Dont think the opera heroine is a relevant character now someone can correct me if wrong

[slender vector]

the opera is historical (about big zhao) but the heroine does not appear in game

[mental ermine]

Zhao Pu has no family relation with the royal family though even though they share the same surname

[proper orbit]

Kudos to the devs to spark such interest in this lesser known period of Chinese history. The game's setting is inspiring some of us to conduct some deep research into this period.

[tropic furnace]

who is tian ying? I see so many npcs and such mentioning him and talking about him but what's his importance?

[proper orbit]

He is a character that is very central to the plot of the story

that is why he is mentioned in so many places and appears in so many texts in so many quests

He is a fictional character though.

But he participated in some events that are based on true historical events. Like one particular assassination

If you don't mind spoilers, there are some pinned messages in this channel that can illuminate this character a lot more for you.

[tropic furnace]

im finished what whatever is released in the main storyline so far. theres no spoilers from the china version right

[proper orbit]

interestingly the main story arc doesn't seem to reveal as much about tian ying as the dark surge arcs

So you would want to do a lot more of the other quests in your journal

Explore more and trigger more things to do.

[tropic furnace]

yeah i finished like no dark surges 😭 im tryna reach 100% qinghe rn so maybe ill find out then

[sturdy wyvern]

I did the same, i feel thats the best way to do it imo

[twilit pawn]

help me out guys

What significance does the jade pendant have in well.. the whole story/game?

Do we ever get it back?

[proper orbit]

yup that's the best way. I would recommend taking it slowly instead of reading spoilers.

[paper rampart]

if you played maplestory before, our jade pendant is like maplestory's black mage. It means we gonna wait 10 years before we know what is the story behind it.

[proper orbit]

I think a lot of us can't really tell you what it does.. but we can only say that it is quite important. The spoilers in the pinned messages reveal a little and others speculated a lot about it.

For now, maybe just know that it is important lol

[twilit pawn]

||Tiang Ying is essentially a spy who's working for a crumbling empire (i cant remember which), doing everything in his power to make sure the officials in said empire are satisfied. However, when he realized that he became a liability to the very empire he served, he needed a way out.

He's also a monk with a ton of blood in his hands too.

Thats where we, the player, come in.

He had no logical reason to reaally fight us as hard as he did initially, but he needed someone to help him fake his death.

for what reason? idk, im still looking at his story.||

[proper orbit]

I mean, somebody (who looks suspiciously familiar) took it away from you..

[twilit pawn]

damn

[proper orbit]

Tian Ying is probably a Chaotic Good character (dnd alignment).

Maybe

[twilit pawn]

He's basically the main character.

We're just wanderers, trying to find where the winds meet ||(plus us being a decendant of an emperor and we were in the middle of a spy/war plot between kingdoms or whatever to reclaim some mcguffin land)||

[proper orbit]

many people would think of him as the main character in the overall story arc, with us being like an observer/participant, helping to unravel the main narrative

[dire acorn]

Is there any more additional lore to the Woven in Malice quest? Like who the Silkworm Lady was, if she's mentioned anywhere else, what this Fitting Ceremony is, etc

[dire acorn]

Hanging Blades is the organization name you're looking for, not an empire

[twilit pawn]

thx.

Yea, where winds meet has this problem where the story is really deep and has meaning.

but its so poorly told in the global version, its insane.

One minute you meet some random lady controlling mechanical birds,

the next your fighting her and her big bird on a ship filled with bombs.

you really have to sit down and think about what you just went through

[dire acorn]

The Jade pendant is an important item within the Jianghu, seeing as how Jiang Wulang is being pursued by various factions for supposedly stealing it, and he stole it from us in the cutscene at the start most likely so these factions don't associate us with the pendant and bring the MC danger

[dire acorn]

a lot of the story is linked together through a central figure or event, takes a lot of digging to find out though because the game doesn't give it to you straight

[modest crow]

Someone said we’re not allowed to kill the soldiers in Kaifeng Palace, right?
In the China version, has the story already reached Kaifeng and the attack happened?

[proper orbit]

I'm not sure about that. I have "killed" lots of soldiers in and around Kaifeng so far. You will have to defeat some government troops in the main story too.

[proper orbit]

The main story arc would have brought you into the heart of Kaifeng. Not sure what you mean by "the attack" though.

[fiery spruce]

When you return her hairpin and dont flirt back do you still get this?

[paper fractal]

hi i just unlocked the ||dreamscape blissful retreat and i want to know who was the old guy who attacked us in the bamboo shack/house after the flashback(?) with uncle jiang and small mc|| if anybody knows

[nova bluff]

If you mean the Palace then no. You still can't access the Palace in the Chinese version.

Source: I play CN ver

[merry narwhal]

||uncle jiang iirc|| go check character voicelines it would help giving you some hints

[half hinge]

This pendant is a big mystery so far, it was called Zhenguan Jade in the introductory tutorial (at least that's what Jiang Wulang's pursuers yelled about) and passed to us somehow. Then it was "stolen" by person resembling uncle Jiang (I think it was our adoptive uncle to take the pendant for real; knowing that pursuers are looking for us in Qinghe, he might have wanted to keep our identity safe and lead hunters onto some other prey somewhere else and secure us from coming danger).

[half hinge]

If you mean the bridge full of guards, then yes - ||someone mentioned that it'll be very hard later without these guards on the bridge as they're gonna be helpful with protecting the area during some big event||. They aren't respawning in our version but CN fixed their respawn in the latest patch, I heard.

[mystic idol]

|| The empire he works for/believes in already crumbled.
It’s the empire which Wang Qing and Chai Rong are a part of.

He never believed in the monk stuff, it was just another suppression of false buddhism by Chai Rong due to people turning to the monasteries for non religious purposes.

He never became a liability for the empire he served and needed a way out.

He faked his death because he was already too well known as Tian Ying, and the plans to retake Yan Yun via Chai Rong’s plans effectively died and failed during the time he was gone.

After the fight with the MC, he went to Liao infiltrating as a Khitan upper elite to do the same thing he’s always been — retaking back Yanyun.||

[foggy tiger]

Ying, tian ying, parting tears shaken not stirred

[mental ermine]

Wang qing died before Later Zhou was established

He never got to see Chai Rong and co do their work

[pale knot]

wang qing was a real person, right? 'cause i can't find any info on him online

how do write his chinese name?

[mental ermine]

Real. 王清

Try looking up du chongwei

[pale knot]

wasn't that the guy that betrayed wang qing?

[mental ermine]

Yes

He's more (in)famous than wang qing

[mystic idol]

oh, thanks for correction

[hazy dirge]

hi, i'm currently going through all the dark surge, and i'm stuck at getting Li aili's letter ? i've donne all the other quest but i haven't gotten anything, i'm afraid i discard it by mistake. Does anyone know when i'm supposed to get the letter and how to recover it if i discard it ?

[mystic idol]

Did you do all the quests in that town? There was 5 or 6 of them iirc

the wandering tales I believe they were

[hazy dirge]

i did all the finesteed hamlet quest, where the soul returns and the path of the heroes

[pastel thorn]

the one thing i never understood about tian ying is why our mc specifically wanted to fight him? isnt it clear that tian ying was a good guy to our mc i would be his biggest fan

[mystic idol]

if you talk to Aili and she mentions the night flash, then you can proceed with trying to proc the encounter in the other town

I did it that way too without the letter 🤔

[hazy dirge]

she does mention the night flash

but she already did that before i finished all the other quest

do i just wait at the teleportation point of harvestfall village ?

[mystic idol]

||Well the whole encounter was a trap set by Tian Ying, who knew that the aureate pavilion was searching and hunting for him. Based on clues he left behind, he expected the aureate pavilion to put together these things and locate the location where Tian Ying was waiting. Tian Ying, who didn’t know who our melon was, assumed we were from the organization and attacked. It wasn’t until we started fighting that he recognized the Nameless Sword style that we use — from there, he went with the flow and faked his death so that as far as Jianghu was concerned, Tian Ying was dead (and he can begin his mission anew in Liao)||

[mystic idol]

Yeah set the time to sunset and walk around the entrance of harvest fall

[hazy dirge]

okay, thank you so much !

[pastel thorn]

ty this explains alot actually

[mystic idol]

if it doesn’t proc, make sure you don’t have more than 2 encounters going on already, or clear another encounter and come back and try again. It took me a few times to proc it too

[twilit pawn]

It makes sense as there were a lot of pursuers and even powerful enemies who are after the jade pendant.

If that mysterious dude didnt take the pendant, the mc would've died much earlier in the story or things would have been different.

[hazy dirge]

i don't have any encounters going on

[pastel thorn]

what happened to me on that quest is theres a 30 minute timelock supposdely so i tried the next irl day and it worked right away

[mystic idol]

np!

Yeah i took like an hour break and cleared another quest then came back and it worked for me haha

[hazy dirge]

i thought about it too, but it's been three days...

[mystic idol]

Yup, if MC still had the jade, aureate pavilion invasion would’ve been much more different as they would likely pivot their mission objective to capturing and hunting MC, since they would now know we are associated with Jiang Yan (and they can use the Jade as a powerful political tool, due to its reputation).

[pastel thorn]

did you interact with the 2 things at finestead hamlet

after you tralk to the girl you go to her house and click on the 2 things and then try to trigger the encounter at you hour

[hazy dirge]

yep i did, i trigger it once already i think, so is it possible that you can only trigger each encounter once ?

[pastel thorn]

no def not

most likely explanation is that you keep timelocking it somehow

ohhh okay so heres what i did actually

so i waited 1 irl day and then i talked to her again and interacted with both things again at chen hour i think (whatever is before you)

and then i lightness skilled all the way over to harvestfall village

so try not teleporting and it should be you hour by the time you get there

[hazy dirge]

so i stop trying to trigger it for the next 24 hours and then i'll try again, tahnk you so much, i hope it'll work !

[pastel thorn]

im sure 1 hour will do i was just doing it at 2am and went to sleep, but yeah good luck hopefully it works

[twilit pawn]

It has a reputation?

[mystic idol]

yeah, you’ll find out more about it in Hexi.

[proper orbit]

Big Zhao ||(Zhao Kuangyin) || is the true hero during these times, in my opinion.

[paper rampart]

Nobody is a true hero ever since yanyun was lost.

[proper orbit]

I think Zhao broke the vicious cycle of the previous dynasties

And made things stable for at least a few more centuries.

Despite not possessing the vital area of Yanyun.

I think that's not bad.

[paper rampart]

The only thing zhao made a life changing move like steve jobs is the paper currency

[vague shoal]

Song dynasty was one of the not so great dynasties in chinese history

Got humiliated by the khitans, then the jurchens lol

Hardly won any major wars

[paper rampart]

📠

[mystic idol]

I think he did an decent job considering the mess/weak state the country was in when he became emperor

it’s not easy to build a country back up esp considering how much turmoil was prevalent during that era.

Wouldn’t call him a hero, but he was a good emperor (as in tried to really govern and improve things, not just completely all for himself)

[heady sierra]

I mean i personally think it's one of the better dynasty considering other aspect of advancement they had

[paper rampart]

Let’s agree paper currency was the best shi ever invented.

[fierce badger]

China were the first

[paper rampart]

Thanks captain obvious

[dire fog]

I'm confused about some part in the story, why does the river master fight us? I know his general lore and stuff, the previous river master's and her tomb we find in one of the wandering tales, but why fight us? then when the mask breaks he just stops and a dude shows up and screen fades to black? what was the thing we lowered with the crane before the fight started?

[proper orbit]

I actually think Song is a pretty good dynasty considering what they are facing.

The founder's policy managed to break the vicious cycle that created the Five Dynasties problem

And Song wasn't responsible for the loss of Yanyun 16 prefectures

But managed to hold on as long as they did despite the loss

Yes, they didn't win much wars, their military was weak, but I think that's precisely why they were able to break the vicious loop of dynastic change in the 60 years preceding

Zhao Kuangyin deliberately made his generals weak and kept his armies under a tight leash so that non of those coups happen again

He gained dynastic stability with a costly tradeoff: a weaker military

So instead of 60, 70 years of dynastic change, Song was able to rule for a few more centuries

[vague shoal]

It still only lasted 300 years with a lot more turmoil than dynasties like Han Tang and Ming

No chinese who cares about history is proud of song dynasty lol

[proper orbit]

300 years while facing Khitan heavy cavalry right at their gates because they are no longer blocked by the mountain ranges around Yanyun? And the subsequent Jin and Mongols

[vague shoal]

And here's why

[proper orbit]

I think Chinese should be more proud of what Song did, to be honest

They deserve more credit for breaking the 5 dynasties curse

[vague shoal]

No one is proud when races they consider barbarians back then trample on them for hundreds of years

[proper orbit]

If it wasn't for Zhao Kuangyin, we may probably even see a 10 dynasties cycle within those 100 years

[vague shoal]

Song would have been different if Zhao Guangyi actually won wars when it was still the honeymoon period

But since he got destroyed, it was the beginning of the end

From the 2nd emperor

[proper orbit]

Given the loss of Yanyun, and the power of the Khitans, and later the Jin, and the Mongols, and after the central plains were devastated by the rapid dynastic change and with most things already bad enough after Tang's collapse.. Song did pretty well honestly

Zhao Guangyi was bad militarily but I think he was pretty good at internal governance

[vague shoal]

Yeah and they did nothing to improve their mililitary situation and made it worse and worse

[proper orbit]

They probably can't because of the governing philosophy laid down by Zhao Kuangyin

Because it was the tradeoff that made the Song stable, unlike the previous 5 Dynasties

[vague shoal]

Yes, which is why the dynasty wasnt one of the greats

[proper orbit]

I think they had to do it this way

[vague shoal]

It was a good short term policy but they kept it up for 300 years

[proper orbit]

I understand. I just think they deserve more credit because of what they were facing

They kinda inherited a horrible basket after the Tang collapse and the devastation from the 5 dynasties

[vague shoal]

Do you know Yue Fei?

[proper orbit]

Yup

[vague shoal]

Look what they did to him lol

Song was setup to fail and be humiliated for centuries

[proper orbit]

Yue Fei is an amazing general, a great man, and the common folk will always love him and hate the people that killed him

But strip away the morals and emotions.. and look at the system Zhao Kuangyin laid down.. and you might see why Yue Fei dies

In ancient China... generals sometimes don't get killed because they lose... they get killed because they win too much

To the common folk, these men are heroes. But to a government seeking security and stability, these men are threats that could march on the capital

[vague shoal]

Especially in an administration like Song, which is why it was a weak dynasty

[proper orbit]

Idk. Liu Bang literally killed or harmed most of his friends and people who helped him get the throne

And that's the founder of the great Han

[vague shoal]

Unifying china isnt a great achievement when that's the minimum requirement for all the dynasties

Same for Ming 1st emperor

But they dont lay down the foudations to weaken their military for hundreds of years though right

[proper orbit]

If anything, the 5 Dynasties should provide clues on why having over-popular and strong generals are a bad idea

[proper orbit]

We would think that now, in modern times. But given Zhao Kuangyin's position and viewpoint, he would strongly disagree

He is a man who lived through the overthrow and coups of Later Tang, Later Jin, Later Han, and then he himself took over from Later Zhou

He knows how dangerous strong military leaders can be to the Central plains governments of the time, I think

[vague shoal]

Like I said it's only good as a short term policy

[proper orbit]

How short though?

[vague shoal]

Definitely shouldnt keep weakening the military for the whole dynasty, no?

Song basically gave up and co existed with the khitans

Which is a stain on chinese history lol

[proper orbit]

China has always played a balancing game between government stability/credibility and military political power I think

[vague shoal]

Then after the khitans, Jurchens came, sacked their capital and humilated the royal family

You dont find any han chinese led dynasties that were humilaited so often like the Song

[proper orbit]

It's like, Zhao could be like, "you know what, we're stable enough, let's re-introduce strong leaders and keep them there" and who knows, after he or his brother dies, and they are left with a young infant on the throne, some general might come in and take over again, like with the preceding dynasties

[vague shoal]

I stand by my point that a kingdom/empire is never a great one without a military to back it up

[proper orbit]

And i think Song didn't just like lay there and not strengthen their military. They actually had lots of military innovations back then. Like a lot.

[proper orbit]

they had a military though

[vague shoal]

by military i meant a strong one

[proper orbit]

It's just that their military has been a lot more restrained

and kept on a tight leash

with bureaucracy making the decisions rather than the generals on the front.

It's not a good idea to us now.. but to Zhao, it was necessary to ensure that after he dies, there won't be a mutiny or coup

[vague shoal]

Well I think the song dynasty is just kinda forgettable, even in this game it's the lore of the less relevant and fictionious characters that make it great, not the dynasty itself

[proper orbit]

After 7 decades of northern China seeing coups and mutinies ending dynasties, I really could understand why he did it

[mental ermine]

I would say Song is still way better than whatever came before and it was still a high cultural, economical and technological point for china

Renzong's long reign helped to stabilise things too

Militarily they were not outstanding at all but many other things they did well

Lets not forget how long southern song held out against the mongols

[vague shoal]

Might be me just being a bit bias to empires with strong military

[proper orbit]

Exactly. I really do think Song deserves more credit for the odds that were stacked against them

And for the cultural and economic achievements

[vague shoal]

As for cultural achievements I think Tang did a lot more though?

[mental ermine]

They didnt have the best starting hand, no hexi, no yanyun = weak cavalry

[vague shoal]

Yeah and they further weaken themselves so that's on them

Tang is literally china golden age for culture so I find it hard to believe

[mental ermine]

Tang is a high point obviously

[vague shoal]

Song's just hella rich but that's trading military power for economy stability

[mental ermine]

No one would argue with that

But Song was richer

[vague shoal]

I would love to be a khitan/jurchen envoy visiting Song

See how they bend over me

[mental ermine]

There's a reason tang and song poets are spoken in the same line together...

[paper rampart]

Whatever song dynasty did, it made the rest of the dynasty fall into scholar power and even within scholars, there is always a black sheep who became a chancellor, the same problem to those came before song dynasty. Generals who became tyrants.

Same same but different.

[mental ermine]

The position of chancellor changed vastly from Han till Song, Emperors continuously divided the position up into pieces

[vague shoal]

Except one getting walked over by barbarians, the other is still internal conflicts among han chinese lol

[mental ermine]

Went from a single position in Han to three positions in Sui to whatever number and then to zero in the Ming

[proper orbit]

Song actually had a large military. It was big, slow, inefficient, and cautious, well paid than previously, and loyal. But yea, it was politically stable. But it sucks at offense in general.

5 dynasties had somewhat the opposite

[vague shoal]

That's definition of a paper tiger

[proper orbit]

I think a lumbering juggernaut .. a clumsy tank.. is a better description

[mental ermine]

In the end all dynasties had their own problems, in hindsight Tang spent half their existence diminished from trying to control an over large territory, and Song overcorrected on the Tang problem

The courts of every dynasty tried to fix the mistakes of their predecessors

[vague shoal]

Well Yue Fei made them look more competent than they are supposed to

[proper orbit]

yup. definitely overcorrection

[mental ermine]

I once had a similar view of the Song to you, but i appreciate them a lot more nowadays

[proper orbit]

I would even say Zhao Kuangyin's policies towards the military was the antidote that ended the vicious cycle of the 5 Dynasties nightmare

[paper rampart]

Poor family of Yang…. Died to the lousy song emperor.

Entire yang family’s son from great grandfather to great grandson got killed

[proper orbit]

I am of the same view. I used to hate the Song government when I was little. Hated the way they treated some generals. But my views changed recently as I learn more about the period.

[paper rampart]

[mental ermine]

Tang was strong externally until internal pressures tore them apart, Song was strong internally but had to manouver around their neighbours

Sometimes I wonder if gaozong was over ambitious in territorial expansion, the court struggled to pay their military for defense and xuanzong ended up resorting to jiedushi, and we all know how that turned out

Extremely long borders that the fubing system could no longer support

[vague shoal]

Song would have been one of the greatest if our boi Zhao Guangyi won his campaigns

[mental ermine]

高粱车神 for real

[vague shoal]

But yeah, things happened

[mental ermine]

Unlucky

[proper orbit]

If only he did.. lol.. is what we all wished

[vague shoal]

Yue fei was born too late

[proper orbit]

Or... Chai Rong didn't have to die that early

[mental ermine]

Well

[proper orbit]

I'm gonna guess that if Yue Fei was born during the 5 Dynasties period.. he might have been put into the same position as Zhao Kuangyin .. being "forced" onto the throne

[mental ermine]

It is what it is.... Liu bang spent most of his life as a random low level official, "suddenly" became emperor in a few years

[vague shoal]

Eh notthat early, when zhao guangyi was around attacking Liao

[proper orbit]

I love Liu Bang's story

[mental ermine]

History works in strange ways

[proper orbit]

Liu Bang : 王侯将相宁有种乎

famous saying lol

[vague shoal]

Liu Bang had Han xin as his general

Imagine if Zhao guangyi had Yue fei

[mental ermine]

Military governors are never a good idea, I can understand big zhao's policies towards them

Time and time again they proved to be destabilising forces

[proper orbit]

Zhao Guangyi would probably have marginalized Yue Fei too tbh

[mental ermine]

Just with different names, see the 州牧 (usually just governor in english) in eastern han, jiedushi, viceroys etc

[vague shoal]

Well yeah but it is what it is

[mental ermine]

Lil bro's just not big bro mang

[proper orbit]

The end of Han saw similar phenomon

[austere basin]

[vague shoal]

Or he could have taken care of Yue fei like how Liu Bang took care of Han xin lol

[proper orbit]

Wouldn't be surprised

Emperors and great generals really don't get along too well

[mental ermine]

See how many founding members survived zhu yuanzhang

[proper orbit]

As the old chinese saying goes, a mountain can barely harbour two tigers

[proper orbit]

Zhu Yuanzhang is the symbol of paranoia...

He makes Liu Bang look like a saint

[mental ermine]

Tang is different, because li shimin was both the great general and the emperor 天策上将，尚书令 etc etc

[proper orbit]

Actually no he doesn't

lol but yea you know what I mean

[mental ermine]

I believe his crackdown on hu weiyong was calculated, but the second round was probably triggered by the crown prince dying

Too many old guys around with the grandson

Gotta learn to be like wang jian.... Do your job and eff off

[proper orbit]

Five Dynasties is all about too many old dudes with big swords hovering around overly young emperors...

[mental ermine]

Real

[paper rampart]

Yue Fei? Why mention him when we already had 楊繼業 and his 6th son 楊延昭? They were a thousand times better than Yue Fei. Both in the same song dynasty but different by a 100 years gap.

[proper orbit]

The poor court officials didn't even have time to change the seals before the next emperor is already in.. lol

[zealous hill]

did anyone knows how to get dark surge fragment - grief for the lost love? after i complete the campgain?

[proper orbit]

I wonder how much the Shatuo even valued their court officials

[mental ermine]

Later han lasting only 5 years is some insane work

[proper orbit]

yup. that's like the most wretched of the five..

and Later Jin being the most hated...

[vague shoal]

All jins bring bad memories

[proper orbit]

晋，金，and 后晋 lol

terrible connotations

[paper rampart]

Tbh, the real hero is khitan

Literally thanos of our comics time.

[mental ermine]

Is this qinghe? I dont know the names in english

[vague shoal]

Eh, jurchens are better at doing their job than khitans

[mental ermine]

开封府尹 晋王

[zealous hill]

kaifeng

[proper orbit]

haha Zhao Guangyi...

Maybe Jin is cursed

[mental ermine]

Think it's in the river master quest? There's youtube guides for it

[mental ermine]

Thanks sima yi and co

[proper orbit]

The word does indeed remind us of some pretty crazy sheesh

going way back

[zealous hill]

correct, but i already finish the main quest

and the dark surge fragment was inside the story quest

[mental ermine]

Unc really swore to the luo river and then went nuh uh after right after

[mental ermine]

damn I actually do not know how to go back lol need someone else to help you

[paper rampart]

Khitan the goat

[pastel thorn]

😭

[mental ermine]

@royal plover thats most certainly not possible 1000 years ago

As canon as rearing giant fish to tame rivers

[paper rampart]

As canon as being a huge lucky seventeen

[bitter holly]

Did the people knew about god of avarice scam and are we even acknowledged by the empire for what we did?

[paper rampart]

Walk to furnace area.
Dont thank me afterwards.

[cloud rivet]

is murong yuan single

[cloud rivet]

we did it on the boat

we fought*

[verbal oak]

lore lore pls give me more

[unkempt pumice]

Yes unless you count his brother

So yes

[unkempt pumice]

Yes, although its mainly used for ppl to escape rather than impersonate

[unkempt pumice]

They weren’t necessarily better commanders. North Song had statistically superior military vs Liao and had the upper hand for quite a while, they couldn’t conquer due to simple economics not allowing them to march their full army a thousand mile away from border. South Song military is absolutely trash and was the underdog.

[bitter grail]

hiayah, can't link links here i guess

[unkempt pumice]

Note that just the force of Chai Rong was able to wreak havoc on the Khitan (while not having a full unified south as basis), and Big Zhao was objectively a better commander than Chai, check out Chai’s campaign to conquer south tang.

[dry tartan]

wow

[remote igloo]

UMMMMM

[timber nebula]

all my homies hate khitan 🙂‍↕️

[paper rampart]

KHITAN the true goat!

[crimson plinth]

I wanna learn more about them in the game or meet a few in the game before I hate them. I wonder if the chance will come

[timber nebula]

think of them as youre one of the english anglo saxons during the viking invasion and the khitans are the vikings

[crimson plinth]

,> yea. They do suck - but I was thinking about how cool it would be to meet an Npc and see the losses on their side or how it effected their life. Like why are they trying to strike the heartland so much. Are they power hungry? Pushed out by a stronger force? Or just wanting to become something themselves at the loss of others. Idk - just would be cool.

[sudden shard]

Are we a hidden descendant of royalty? I just found a fortune teller npc on ghostmarket while searching for anecdote and said about golden cup falling and dragon soaring to the sky. Also the little yin yang master(?) In starveil saying we will later meet the owner of the half of the jade ||possibly our sister(?)||

[mystic idol]

? Its just conquest and unification, like alexander the great, napoleon, etc

[mystic idol]

Right now its entirely unknown. major spoiler || During Hexi story line you meet the girl who’s raised by Li Zuo/Emperor Ai, there’s no confirmation on whether we are related to them or not ||

[proper orbit]

there are plenty of reasons for people back then to hate the khitans

the jurchens in particular hated them a lot because of what the khitans forced the aristocratic jurchen women to do

the khitans were to suffer a great deal later

and today, their lineage is reduced to a minority people in northeastern china

Interesting, the word for China or Chinese back in the day, in many western civilizations, was derived from the Khitans

for example, Cathay, is derived from Khitan

Understandably so too, since Khitans formed a layer of territory that borders a lot of eurasian and central asian civilizations

[timber nebula]

you meet one in qinghe vibing with the guitar.

or the fact that they straight up decapitated men and women from the well of heaven and displayed em in a row

[proper orbit]

I don't think they were "power hungry" or that they needed the central plains of China so much.

The Liao was doing decently well during the time of the five dynasties.

If they viewed the Central Plains as a place they needed, they wouldn't have left after their invasion of Later Jin (the notorious dynasty that ceded the Yanyun sixteen prefectures to Khitans)

They would have stayed but they didn't.

They also wouldn't have settled into a long period of peace with the Song later on.

I think the peace treaty lated for around 120 years

[main dagger]

i have a question, Regarding murong Yuan's fight in the Campaign- what happens if you missed all her timed events after you defeat her?

[proper orbit]

And the Song were the ones who broke the peace agreement later by allying with the Jin (Jurchens)

[timber nebula]

i think they happen anyways

whatever you do theres no muright or murongs @main dagger

[sudden shard]

What region is it? I want to search it on youtube, but haven't found it

[mental ermine]

They couldn't stay

Their Backside was on fire because they overextended and couldn't "digest" the lands they raided

[proper orbit]

Yea and this is an ongoing thing that resulted in an awkward stalemate between the Song and the Liao in the long run

Both could hurt each other somehow but couldn't really destroy the other.

[mental ermine]

Then came the artist emperor

[proper orbit]

Huizong emperor?

[mental ermine]

Yup 🤣 incredible calligraphy tho

[proper orbit]

Sigh... he will forever be associated with that fateful incident....

They would be painting for the Jurchens in their homes

Jurchens: We can't kill this guy.. this art... this masterpiece... we need to carry him back to the north

[potent mortar]

may i ask? is it really need to complete the main story first and then clear all the quest in Qinghe?

[proper orbit]

some people do it the other way around. they clear as much of the sidequests as possible before proceeding on the msq

i didn't. I just cleared the main story and now i'm slowly discovering the sides

I came to look for Chen the fruit vendor... his fruits are here... but he has vanished.. >.>

Selling fruits so near to the Mercyheart Monastery is such a bad idea...

It wouldn't be a bad idea if the monastery was full of actual monks...

[sudden shard]

I do side quests, exploration (max explore in blissful retreat if it's possible) and campaign first, for encounter some of them have pre requisite of the progress of the main story

I go back to heaven's pier at level 40 🤣

[potent mortar]

do you guys recommended it?

[proper orbit]

I find it easier to just get the Main story arc out of the way before handling the side quests.

I will still do various quests as they pop up sometimes

[potent mortar]

oki thank you

[twin sphinx]

Guys is the mc canonically very weak? we get aura farmed on by almost everyone from Yi Dao to Qianye, they seem to be making lightwork of us. I just 100% all of Qinghe including main story and side quests and it does feel that way. Can anyone tell me if we still get no-diffed in Kaifeng by some random martial masters?

For people like Uncle Jiang and Aunt Han I understand that they'd wipe the floor with us since they're op but for other guys shouldn't we be holding our own?

I mean usually in wuxia, mcs are fighting people who are as strong or slightly stronger than them not whole power levels above them

it just feels like we're the mc of a shonen during a training arc getting beat up rn

[vague shoal]

MC is 16 years old and is only just starting his journey, so against real masters dont think MC can win

[twin sphinx]

We're 16? holy moly no wonder we get no diffed all the time.

We're literally a kid

[vague shoal]

Yeah, still wet behind the ears

[twin sphinx]

I just get so mad sometimes playing on legend absolutely pulling a sekiro on the boss and then cutscene plays and we get finger flicked and pass out

[twin sphinx]

also real lore question rn

[unkempt pumice]

The strongest boss mc beat without any technicality is probably lucky seventeen

[twin sphinx]

how is the witch so strong? shouldn't she be on par with killerblade? she seems to be making lightwork of him too. and let's not forget Yi Dao stomps us

[twin sphinx]

i didn't really get the story much but is lucky seventeen a blacksmith?

[vague shoal]

She had like 50 goons with her, she clearly wasnt interested in having a fair fight lol

[twin sphinx]

and she also had a freaking maze and confusion magic array set up lmao

[vague shoal]

seventeen was trying to defend his swords, only real beating we gave was destroying void king

[twin sphinx]

Im so mad she was aura farming on us that's so much disrespect I wanna throw hands (swords) so bad

[vague shoal]

Compared to uncle jiang and aunt han yi dao cant really compare

[twin sphinx]

ngl jiang should've no diffed him in the tutorial

[vague shoal]

Qianye is definitely stronger than him even without goons around

[twin sphinx]

Wait really? I though Yi Dao worked with Aunt Han's boyfriend and he was on par with Aunt Han in strength

so by association, shouldn't Yi Dao be as strong as well?

[vague shoal]

So if we put aunt han, her lover and uncle jiang on s tier

[twin sphinx]

Yi Dao is maybe A+ tier?

And the witch is also S tier?

[vague shoal]

Yi dao is probably only A tier

[twin sphinx]

man as much as it feels like such a braindead move it is for me to say this, I REALLY want a Where Winds Meet power ranking / tier list of the major characters

[vague shoal]

Yeah I think Yi dao is around there

We r like B tier lol

[twin sphinx]

So basically, Jiang Wulang, Chu Qingquan, Han Xiangxun, and Qianye are all S tier right?

[vague shoal]

That's my guess

They r legendary figures of the jianghu world

Yi dao is just a notorious ex vigilante

[twin sphinx]

damn we weak as hell

also Tian Ying is also S tier right?

[vague shoal]

Should be

[twin sphinx]

oh right

I can't believe Tian Ying was holding back the entire time, but all the evidence seems to point to that

I used to think our character could've done a better job during the breeze post assassination

after fighting the man who did it, oh boy

[vague shoal]

It's all good, Tian Ying is the MC of qinghe, not us

[mystic idol]

ofc he’s holding back, look at how long his windup animations are 🤣 if he wasn’t holding back he’d attack faster than wolf maiden and would one shot us if we don’t deflect

[bitter holly]

Are we like naruto typa level on strength who is a 16 yr old but the best in the world?

[vague shoal]

I do think we are the strongest 16 year old kid lol

[mystic idol]

Hexi

[twin sphinx]

Ok I want to make a power scaling tier list. For S tier we have Jiang Wulang, Chu Qingquan, Han Xiangxun, Qianye, and Tian Ying. Anyone else I'm missing in S tier?

[mystic idol]

tbh i wonder how strong Yingying is/how old she is

[twin sphinx]

maybe the general who raised uncle jiang or he ran?

[vague shoal]

Yingying should be close to s tier

Definitely stronger than Yi dao

[mystic idol]

Wang Qing very strong, Chai Rong too

[twin sphinx]

But is she a legendary figure in the Jianghu just like Tian Ying, Aunt Han, etc...?

oh right

[vague shoal]

She's the ember of the east

[twin sphinx]

that's why I said oh right

ragh when will we win against them strong martial masters I want to fight more more more

oh wait we won against murong yuan hahahha

[vague shoal]

If yinging's meridians werentdmg she could probably 1 shot the MCwith that coin of hers

Murong Yuan is techinically an engineer though

Zheng E is literally sick

[twin sphinx]

damn we fought on equal footing (we were slightly stronger) with an engineer?

everyone be just learning martial arts these days

[twin sphinx]

btw what was the reason her martial arts were crippled?

[vague shoal]

She lost the power struggle at weiyang city

Escaped to kaifeng and was saved by granny turtle

[twin sphinx]

well that's sad

the jianghu is truly a treacherous place

[sudden shard]

The moment when we step out of the boundary line

[vague shoal]

Her bio is 100% completed and you can read it if you've completed the kaifeng MSQ,

[twin sphinx]

If I were a regular guy in the Jianghu I'd be polite af and assume everyone I interact with (even kids and ESPECIALLY old people) are secretly martial masters

[twin sphinx]

I havent yet haha

I'd be afraid of accidentally "courting death" and disrespecting young masters

[vague shoal]

The young master trope is more in xianxia stories than in wuxia so ur good

[foggy tiger]

River master should also be much more skilled than mc lore wise

Not sure about feng ruzhi though

Ye wanshan should also be much stronger at his peak but with all the trauma he suffered he probably weakened a lot for mc to be able to take him down

[proper orbit]

The words Jianghu (江湖) means rivers and lakes in Chinese. In much of Imperial Chinese history, the government's effective reach is usually limited to the various regional and district courts and most of the time, their troops are garrisoned in faraway places.

That means most of the country's law and order aren't effectively enforced by the government

Especially in places like the rivers and lakes, marshes and hills

Many Imperial governments kinda relied upon the local elites to maintain order and administer the area

Jianghu represents the grey regions, the lawless areas, where all kinds of people can be found.

[nocturne dove]

cool

[mint spade]

You don't even fight the real Ye Wanshan, you fight a ghostly apparition of him.

[mint spade]

Well there's also Feng Ruzhi, Rongyuan, Zheng E and Wolf Maiden. Rongyuan, Zheng E and Wolf Maiden are all out for blood in their fights, and MC beat all three of them. You can argue Zheng E was sick, but Wolf Maiden and Rongyuan are at peak health.

And I still refuse to believe we drawed Feng Ruzhi, we clearly were about to beat her when she pulled the fight and acted like it was a draw.

I'd argue all of them are a step above Lucky Seventeen, who is just a... Simpleminded neanderthal type character with more muscle than brains, bless his heart.

[haughty forge]

is shimmer of the south= south tang emperor

[proper orbit]

He is the King of Southern Tang. Not an Emperor, because Southern Tang was a Kingdom.

Real name is Li Yu.

He would be the last ruler of Southern Tang, and would spend the rest of his days mourning the loss of his Kingdom to Song

Apparently he was a great poet.

A Poet King.

[haughty forge]

ah

hes also the guy we fight for this kaifeng legacy right

[proper orbit]

Hmm. I'm not sure who the devs intend to be the main villain, to be honest.

But.. he is an opponent of Song.. which the mc's a subject of..

[haughty forge]

no i mean like the green cloth red umbrella guy

[proper orbit]

But the plot isn't so straightforward.. the Shimmer of the South had some plots that involved the Ember of the East, who is a friend of the mc

[haughty forge]

that was shown in that trailer for the kaifeng legacy

the missions name is gambit beneath the shimmer

so i figured he was the boss

[proper orbit]

which trailer?

[haughty forge]

this one

[slender vector]

did cn release the names of all gongzis? at this rate its gonna be glitter of the west and sparkle of the north

[unkempt pumice]

We didn’t beat Rong Yuan, her bird almost killed both of us, since she’s an engineer, her creations are fair game
Zheng E, you forgot Shen Yilun was with us, also he was sick and emotionally down cuz his sister
Feng Ruzhi isn’t that strong, Wolf Maiden probably
I mean, Lucky Seventeen was named so because there were 16 true members of hanging sword, according to the belltower monk every one of them is tianying tier and more powerful than unc jiang and yi dao (those two, along with chu and aunt han, are same tier).
Tbf canonically MC grows rly fast so good chance wolf maiden strongest so far, but is he still 16 in kaifeng idk, 100%ing qinghe takes more than 365 in game days.

[prime fog]

so we all 18 in game? Best news, I was worried all that underage drinking I was doing lol

[unkempt pumice]

We’ve been drinking in game since like 3 lmao

Culture very different

[prime fog]

that reminds me of a old movie where the kid drinks milk to get drunk

[mint spade]

Lucky Seventeen was not a real member.

He was a... Developmentally challenged child the Hanging Sword took under their wing, and trained. He didn't even get any real training, just growing prodigially strong with his dumb muscle genes, because the members all left on their final mission, and left him behind waiting for the Hanging Sword members to come back while smashing out ten thousand swords.

[slender vector]

perk of being Parting Tears Inc CEO Jr

[unkempt pumice]

The most concerning is prolly the velvet shade girls flirting with mc, who’s up to a decade younger

Although socially acceptable age at the time is like 14

[prime fog]

I wonder what they feed him, bro arms is bigger them us

[mint spade]

I wonder wtf they feed him too, since the guy has been hammering swords on his own for the past 7-8 years on his own in an abandoned academy front

[unkempt pumice]

Cannibalism prolly

The place aint secret and ppl try to get in

Canonically he attacked all strangers

[prime fog]

yeah first time I fight him, he goes like "Get away from me", Iam like " I am trying bro, you keep chasing me i.i "

[proper orbit]

I don't know if that is Li Yu (shimmer of the south). But it looks like he could be.

[prime fog]

you guys think MC is related to Li Yu or Wang Qing? where are u theories at ?

what made consider that, was the Void king ( if I am not mistaken) mistaken us, but the blind guy quest made Wang Qing's kid more plausable.

I am getting into Wuxia lore for the first time, so I know nothing XD any take is interesting to me at this point

[storm summit]

what timeline does the events in where winds meet occur? is it like the three kindoms area? trying to see what map of china looks like during this period so I can guess what other areas we get in the future

[thorny timber]

song dynasty

dont think mc is wang qing's child. theyd tell him if he was and it seems ooc for wang qing

plus wang qing is too old to father mc (also part of the ooc thing, china wouldnt write their hero chara like that). jiang yan is his only son

[mystic idol]

while it’s possible there’s a connection and it’s unconfirmed

it’s also not really in the spirit of the writing so far that we’re someone “special” in terms of identity

[thorny timber]

yeah, dont take every cn fandom theory seriously. a lot of it is dumb

[prime fog]

it should be a kid important enough to send goons after it in the start of the game tho

[mystic idol]

It was never the kid they’re after, just the thing hanging around the neck

[thorny timber]

goons were after jiang yan

[mystic idol]

& jiangyan

[thorny timber]

bc he killed wang qing

identified by the pendant

[prime fog]

but the pendent has our name on it, no?

[thorny timber]

no it doesnt its a cursed pendant that turned wang qing into mindless puppet

[mystic idol]

I’m not certain if it actually does or if it’s just a way to get us to enter our name, or if we carved it in after the initial scene growing up canonically

[prime fog]

lots of thing was kind confusing, localization wasnt the best

[mystic idol]

Yeah, Chinese is really hard to translate into English and still keep the same level of depth/nuance

[alpine path]

Where do you get this from? I don’t think the nature of the pendant was revealed anywhere so far

[thorny timber]

i thought it was what was in the box that was sent to wang qing? in flashback in the encounter with he ran

[proper orbit]

The game is set in the year 962, right after the founding of the Song Dynasty (960). You can look up the Song Dynasty. It is also important to know the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period, which precedes the Song Dynasty era and which the Song Dynasty overlaps with.

[proper orbit]

I can imagine how exciting this is for you! 🙂

[prime fog]

there are main 3 parts of the game that made me feel that the child beyond the pendent was important in some way, the beginning of the game , He Ran questline and Void King fight. The old general Murang also talk to ask like he knows us or think we are someone else, but he is mad, so not sure

[alpine path]

No, the baby seems to be having it from the get go based on the recent anniversary trailer

[thorny timber]

yeah its possible that he's important and related to yanyun vips, just not wang qing's child simply bc the timeline doesnt match

[prime fog]

I love these stuff, I am crazy into Arthurian lore, Greek Myths, Japanese folclore and many others . But we dont have any good western thing in a while, so the chinese games has been a feast for me

[thorny timber]

wang qing likely died before the baby was born tho

[mystic idol]

is general murang the guy we talk to in the he ran quest?

[prime fog]

no, they are 2 different quest, Murang guy is the old man in the chair in Murang Yuan questline

[alpine path]

What do you mean? It happened 16 years ago, both events

[mystic idol]

oh him

[thorny timber]

i know

[mystic idol]

he went crazy yeah

[thorny timber]

jiang yan killed wang qing before he took the baby into hiding