📖lore-chat

[crimson birch]

plus that last scene...

[merry quest]

One leaf one life made me cry everyone was such a fam

[merry quest]

I REALLY THOUGHT HER SON CAME BACK

[crimson birch]

it's lesson and message is quite touching. the gold leaf warrior isn't a single person but rather the efforts of the community trying to make it a safer place for everyone

[mint spade]

Well, you see... Before they were hoarding the grain to prepare for war, the granary master was a kind and benevolent person who tried to make sure people are well fed and released food to the people in secret so they don't need to smuggle grains to solve the famine...

Then to make the hyperinflationary war stalling plan work for Yingying, she had the kind hearted granary master removed

and replaced by his vengeful best friend who accidentally killed him and emptied the granary causing the famine which their smuggling will solve

[iron canyon]

If you put yourself in Yingying's shoes, who lived in a family that's literally surviving on bloodshed, the sudden change is honestly not something she could accept either. It's also another trial an error process for her. With her knowledge, she thinks her ways to survive in weiyang could work in kaifeng, but she forgot a crucial detail that kaifeng recently experienced a massacre and her "ways" will only stir up more chaos. Which is why after she settled down with granny turtle & truly experienced how live was it for the common folks, she had a better idea but then it's personal interpretation, so different ppl has different views

and the fact that she mentioned that her son worked under DuChongWei ||please, make him into a campaign||

[merry quest]

And also how even other kids were affected and changed because of Zheng Ran

[mint spade]

Not saying she can't make mistakes and have a redemption arc, just saying what she did is nowehre near deserving of redemption yet but we have to accept she is absolved all her sins and she is waifu now because writing.

One Leaf One Life people are more deserving of being my family than Yingying even at the end of the entire quest

[iron canyon]

our sweetheart zhengran🥹

[mint spade]

I mean, Rongyuan realized her mistake in being part of the plot and went on a self imposed exile away from society to atone for her sins.

Yingying just like "Well we all sure learned a lesson huh! Glad I'm the best girl now!"

[merry quest]

It is just like yingying had a redemption with no character development the way ur making it sounds like

I think it is because she doesn’t have generic black hair so she was forgiven by ppl

[mint spade]

She... Kind of didn't. She's still talking about big words and big concepts trying 'help', but the only reason we know she is 'helping' is because we are seeing this with hindsight 20/20 knowing "Oh yea paper money is a good idea and a great plan"

but this woman did nothing trustworthy

lied and cheated even up until the end

and then her solution:

"Hey Big Zhao, let's use CREDIT as currency, using TRUST so PAPER can be used to exchange for goods!"

The writing is VERY backwards - She didn't create paper money because she is a changed person - She is a changed person because she is the originator of a proven concept that works.

[merry quest]

She is a flawed person is what i am seeing here. Even if they didn’t execute her character arc well, that doesn’t mean she was useless at all. And not everyone is giving her all the credit for the paper money too imo. Her character arc could be rushed and she did pretty screwed up with her uhh previous decisions. Still, we wouldn’t have make it if we take out one person from our team in kaifeng.

[mint spade]

Well if we took out that stupid woman who sabotaged us and got us in trouble at every turn...

[merry quest]

Not trying to glaze her either btw i just don’t think she is utterly useless

[mint spade]

I don't think she's utterly useless, I'm just saying she doesn't deserve how the story treats her like a heroine now

She is pretty crucial as a team member, but her treatment is all wrong

[merry quest]

I wasn’t aware if she was called the heroine or the savior. As i saw it, she was one of the main spotlight of Kaifeng so she gets her screen time. Correct me if im wrong

[iron canyon]

(Correct me if I'm wrong) Even though she worsened Song's economy, but she did all of this so that the folks in forsaken quarter could use tang coins to exchange for food & supplies in ghostlight market. Everyone is flawed, we can't expect them to come out with the perfect plan, but at least her suggestion opens a way to solve Song's crisis, people may not know that she was the one behind all these but if the effects are there, it's enough

[mint spade]

same with that god damn woman who keeps stealing from you, sorry I don't freaking care your child is dying from hunger, your story is not special, why are you throwing your entire neighbourhood's life in danger for your selfishness

[merry quest]

That is what a mother is

[crimson birch]

ngl that is exactly the effect extreme poverty will have on people

[mint spade]

I know, and I understand why she's doing what she's doing, and I accept she will do what she will do

[crimson birch]

you still want to be kind but you also need to survive hence you have to look short term because you are barely scraping by

[mint spade]

but why am I forced to forgive her and let her be withou8t punishment

This is why I hated the main story quest, I am supposed to just accept yea Yingying took my last memory of home and it's totally k

and that woman has it hard so I have to forgive her cuz yingying said so

[merry quest]

U don’t have to. It is YM who did. The story went with forgiveness maybe, but u can hold your own opinions. Maybe Ym just doesn’t hold hatred over someone like Yingying after people like Qianye exist.

[plain star]

well no one is clear of sin tho
especially in the politics play.

[mint spade]

She's lucky the guy who took my last bottle of parting tears is a reasonable guy like the Shimmer of the South

[lean magnet]

look i know that she sold us out but jesus chirst she was feeding her child with her blood and worst still, i ever hear her bady was killed in the end when it was taken from her

[mint spade]

Yes, and she brought it all on herself by stealing the money we've hidden and exposing us to the God of Avarice so she can feed her baby.

Woman was too stupid to live and dragged everyone down with her, and nobody did a thing about it when otherwise they are these masterminds who have the lives of Kaifeng supposedly in their hands

Did we forget that right now half of Kaifeng only has food because Yingying and the triplets are masterminding a plot to smuggle food into the city?

If they were captured or compromised, half of the city would starve?

And we let this dumb woman jeopardize their safety because "hey hey she has it hard ok?"

what happend to the half of the city we're responsible for feeding?

[merry quest]

I think it is pretty amazing how she would go at such lengths for her baby. And they are all victims of extreme poverty. They will make choices that will benefit them and their families whether they bring others down or not. That is how life is irl too. U don’t have to justify these kinds of people. Because they are neither wrong nor right. Desperate times call for desperate measures.

[mint spade]

She can be desperate all she wants, and that is acceptable. But the way Yingying and the triplets let her do what she wants out of desperation is a serious character violation that ruined the idea of "Kaifeng People have it hard ok?"

Because they clearly are ok if we need to save this one woman over them.

[merry quest]

I don’t think they have the time to either forgive or not forgive the woman at that moment. As u have said they have other “kaifeng ppl who have it hard” to save. And she did gave the price in the end.

It is not their position to judge someone who was trying to survive. Because anyone could have done the same at the end of the day.

[crimson birch]

unrelated but im kinda happy lore chat is active and discussing ngl

[merry quest]

Lol same i used to just lurk before

[lean magnet]

okay lets dicuss other thing not related to lore

so uh how life guys

[iron canyon]

They saved her out of pity, since her story was known around the neighbourhood, but you never know if they will repay it in a good way/betray you (it's much like JinZhongYuan's past, where his brother saved others yet they ended up becoming bandits attacking the two )

[iron canyon]

it's been a long time since there is a really good discussion and I liked it XD

[crimson birch]

no no imsaying i like it xD

[mint spade]

Our Donkey Cart Master is just being a little wuss about it

sorry but our little Prince of Jin vs Big Zhao was just a matter of not enough Aura to master the art of benevolence

[lean magnet]

nah joking with you, i thought it funny that we just immediatily dicuss other stuff just after you say it

[mint spade]

But then, with the Imperial Palace patch and Prime Big Zhao reveal, damn

Emperor Aura is real in this game

[crimson birch]

nah fr bro aura is unmatched but then again big zhao is more versed in war lil zhao is more scholarly type

[mint spade]

Compared to the two loser emperors on the enemy side, Emperor Sad and Emperor Glitter

[crimson birch]

none is better than the other just ehat the situation calls

[crimson birch]

LMAO the nicknames

[lean magnet]

he used to be a general, i freaking hope he more well versed in war and stuff

[merry quest]

Emperor sad and emperor glitter they did not do all that sht to get called that😭

[lean magnet]

also i have a talk with my mom wheather it is true irl he would diguise himself as the common folk and walk around and ya it true irl which lowkey mess me up for some reason

ya i know he use to be a commoner but still ya

[mint spade]

Funny thing is, Emperor Sad is not made up, his imperial name is Emperor Ai of Tang, which is... Emperor Sad of Tang

[celest flume]

Emperor sad of tang??

[merry quest]

Xi An? 😭

[crimson birch]

pls its frying me alive

[lean magnet]

ya his life was horrible and properly why he just cashout

[mint spade]

Yes, literally his title.

Because he was the last emperor of Tang, with a reign that was the end of an era, so he was named Emperor Ai(Sadness)

[celest flume]

😭 I saw larping emperor the other day

[crimson birch]

i mean id be more surprised if anyone in his place didnt crash out ngl

[mint spade]

yea he got screwed, understandable crash out, especially knowing what the silver needle doctor did to him

[lean magnet]

tbh he was supposed to be dead so a

[mint spade]

His beloved waifu ate poison in his place to die for him.

And instead of telling the guy "Well ackshually your girl is immune to poison so you actually had a happy ending where the two of you can fake your deaths and go live a life on your own"

[crimson birch]

the doctor experimented on the girl and put her through decades of agony and mental decay...

[mint spade]

the doctor kidnaps his girl and performs human experimentation on her until she turns immortal and now Emperor Sad is an immortal revenant bent on revenge.

Like, wtf were you thinking man, god damn, how do you screw up this bad

[crimson birch]

ngl i think the final straw also came when QingYi herself wanted to actually die when LiZuo wanted to still live with her

[lean magnet]

man was abounded his project like a father getting out for milk

[tropic acorn]

morning

[carmine ice]

[sharp lily]

who is emperor glitter lol

[proper cove]

Could someone explain the story of Lian Daozi? I get bits and pieces of it so I just want to fully understand it

[cosmic sphinx]

hi

[merry quest]

Lol i had assumed they meant Khitan emperor

[lean magnet]

weridly i keep thinking of the shimmer of the south but he not rlly an emporer

[merry quest]

Wait kinda makes sense

[lean magnet]

in a short and simple way, its story of a man who yearn for a belonging when he never belong to either, not fully a han or whoever the culture of his stepmom, i forgot. In a way, it similar to an immgirant trying to find where they belong

[lean magnet]

go watch goose girl video on lingzhou melody she do a better job of explaining

[proper cove]

Thank you so much and I will watch the video

[tawny lagoon]

hihi

[iron canyon]

shimmer of south I think (Li Yu)

[lean magnet]

by the way which culture is lian daozi's stepmom from? i uh forgot and keep think it was tibetern or whatever the mintor are

[keen yarrow]

so who is wheelchair sam in that fight with the wooden eagle lady? Is that her adoptive dad?

[meager pilot]

who's lian daozi......

[crimson birch]

the grand child of the person burlap sack entrusted the cotton seeds iirc

[meager pilot]

ahh, that guy with pipa! i remember now
ty!

[celest flume]

yes

Murong yanzhao

[sharp lily]

Fun fact: Yao Yaoyao's name is just the word "medicine" repeated three times lol

[keen yarrow]

man doing that whole eagle quest and the kid was like "oh she was really nice, almost like a sister, she'll come back any day now"

you're like "yep she sure will"

[lean magnet]

wait which kid?

[keen yarrow]

the one that you help create the wooden eagle

[celest flume]

the child at pipa chasm in Soaring Eagle encounter quest

I waited 3 months for that encounter to trigger

[lean magnet]

okay either i forgot or i never encount the kid

[keen yarrow]

yeah its a bug, I got it in 2 days irl, did a few other quests, followed the You hour thing and didn't teleport directly

[meager pilot]

oh yeah
these chained wandering tales and also encounter (?) were soooo good

[keen yarrow]

following up on bosses and characters in general really makes the world feel alive. Showing players that their character's choices and actions have consequences in the world is a chefs kiss on immersion

[meager pilot]

oh my
what abt quest with explosive diagram? idk what to do to proceed tho' i have a diagram from a main Murong quest

[celest flume]

You have to complete soaring eagle encounter to get explosive device plans

the reward is 29 echo jades from opening that gorgeous golden casket

[meager pilot]

i did them all
still boatman doesnt want to talk with me abt it...

[celest flume]

cry then

[keen yarrow]

oh I forgot to give him the explosive plans lmao whoops

[meager pilot]

no, you cry

[crimson birch]

https://tenor.com/view/nayeon-divider-aesthetic-mina-chaeyoung-twice-cry-for-me-gif-24908646

iykyk

[mystic idol]

Liangzhou melody hits hard in cn too, remember theres a lot of people who “left home” to go to major cities due to jobs/school etc. So it also resonates with them esp when/if theres a large cultural difference between their hometown or village vs the place theyre currently living in

[iron canyon]

iirc it's qiuci/kucha

[iron canyon]

and the moment she asked if her "sister" was carrying something heavy, the kid's words are hitting so hard

[mystic idol]

actually there’s an Easter egg in the map about her son — a line of text that suggests its him iirc

[lean magnet]

oh god we are going to see his body

[lean magnet]

wait so modern Uyghur

[mystic idol]

if its tubo then its tibetan

if kucha then modern uyghur yeah

[keen yarrow]

not anymore

she's very light now

[lean magnet]

ah okay thank, then who are the modern day verison of muzan or whatever the name of bull enemies

[lean magnet]

ya but she still alive after the whole blowing up a warship

[keen yarrow]

is she

[iron canyon]

at least this time she made her own decision and wasn't influenced by others

[lean magnet]

think there was a wandering tales on it

[iron canyon]

the lu and mo debate wandering tales suggest that she's alive

[lean magnet]

i mean we are liternally talking to her unless we are talking to a ghost again

[iron canyon]

I'm not too sure since if you did the tale before the campaign it suggests another open ending, but judging from how it's mentioned that the court is after her in the soaring eagle encounter that she's still alive

[mystic idol]

good question, i was trying to figure that out too but im not sure lol

also nvm tubo = modern day 藏族 according to online sources

[lean magnet]

think i did the tale right after the campagin

[mint spade]

Well the majority of 藏族 are Tibetan so...

[mint spade]

speaking of chained quests... It's nice seeing the circus trope in Liangzhou after you do the paper moon quest and beat them up in the world map, they're still preparing for the festival and you see the dynamic they had as a group

And the troupe leader confirms that Lian Daozi's grandpa taught Liuli her circus tricks

[mystic idol]

ah okay that makes sense then lol

[iron canyon]

Yeah same honestly, but when I was trying to piece up her character, it might have made more sense for it to come before the campaign, since it was the time when she was conflicted after betraying the mohist & ultimately made a decision for herself (the devs might have changed the dialogue to cater to different situations, so I can't be certain), I rmb her saying something like we might see again (which probably refers to the jinming pool), and if you completed the tale before the campaign, you are able to meet FengJiSheng at the dock (sadly, back then I forgot to make an sc😭 )

[meager pilot]

oh wei

[lean magnet]

wait i thought it was lian daozi himself that taught her?

[meager pilot]

it couldn't be
iirc, daozi was in kinda fallen liangzhou, while Liuli was in a past Liangzhou
that's why we cant see circus troupe in fallen Liangzhou - they simply left

well, its just my assumption - i jst started to explore fallen Liangzhou, so maybe i missed them somewhere

[crimson birch]

Tbh they were set in same time

Daozi seeing the burn, people running away and Liuli being in the carriage and seeing the fire is the same time the Zhang manor was being burnt.

[meager pilot]

oh damn... that cutscene was lagging asf for me

[plush agate]

Where can I report bugs?

[mellow horizon]

#game-support

[lean magnet]

Oh crap I just realised that it’s impossible cuz daozi only reach Liangzhou when it is falling. Damn I am dumb dumb

[meager pilot]

frostwing has a good point
actually, their words are legit

[mystic idol]

yeah it’s the same time

[coarse epoch]

Grand rising

[silver birch]

True, lian daozi and the circus girl s fall were set at the same time, after the huaishen assassination

The destruction symbolyzes the power struggle happening after his death

[vague obsidian]

Okay new question

Can someone explain what happened in the newest area where you go into the giant Lion statue’s mouth?

I got really confused seeing a certain character there

[silver birch]

To clarify, when daozi entered liangzhou the fire just broke out n people were running away, in circus girl's case, the earth just shatterd, both symbolyzes that the assassination just happened n huaishen (the order keeper of liangzhou) just died

[mint spade]

You went into the lions mouth, and each lion was a thread of a person who guarded the dream of going home.

The murals were painted to represent the events that catalyzed the final fall of the dream.

The mirrors show you the past that lead up to this point.

[vague obsidian]

Oh okay, and the guy with the white hair, isn’t he like the big bad of the game?

[silver kiln]

[mint spade]

Yes, and it was a scene where he invited Wang Qing to talk over the game, using pieces to represent their argument

[vague obsidian]

Yeah

[mint spade]

It was less about Li Zuo and more about Wang Qing, who willingly stepped into the game and used themselves as a piece to break Li zuo's board

[meager pilot]

damn, was it in one of the endings of dark surges - Kaifeng one?

[mint spade]

It's in the main quest in new region, Qinchuan

[vague obsidian]

Qinchuan is pretty chill

There’s like so many oddities and everyone is trying to kill you for your golden peach

But it’s a vibe

[meager pilot]

its before sunken city lake, right? if yes, then i forgot

[vague obsidian]

I haven’t done sunken yet, i gotta collect brushes or something

[meager pilot]

its easy part
tho' scl campaign is op, also after it, Azure Glow campaign is my fav so far
but because its still ongoing game, you keep forgetting things lol

[mint spade]

It's inside the stone lions mouth

[crimson birch]

the sephiroth of wwm? yeah

[vague obsidian]

My entire time with this game has been forgetting everything that i do

[silver birch]

Where did it go ? Maybe i should ask questions after doing the 3rd part of hexi 😂

[mint spade]

Palmstrike sage.

Fangbai's master

[meager pilot]

oh nooo, get a spoilerrr

[silver birch]

Dont mind spoilers

I m asking anyways

Dont know who Fenbai is anyways, i forget some names 🙃

[mint spade]

The painter's friend

The guy with the banger intro music crashing the banquet (even if it's not really him)

[iron canyon]

Suo Jing, huaishen's close friend, then it was lost until rumours had it that the peach is in qinchuan

[silver birch]

The dude who tried to kill him ?

He stole the box ?

[iron canyon]

no, huaishen entrusted the box to him as a last resort & gamble (since he had no one to pass it down anyway, and Suo Jing did succeed in preventing those with power/wealth hold it)

[silver birch]

Okey but, and excuse ly ignirznce cause i fail to undersrand why i close friend like that would try to kill huaishen

Cause during death of a govenor, it seemed like he held huaishen in high regards, until the cousin started convincing him to join the dark side

N he was like if someone s killing him, it would be me. I was like wth

Top 10 anime betrayels

Also quick thing, i havent done dasan pass yet, so i have't gone to new region. I m i supposed to know much about veiled lady, the painter and fang bai ? Did i miss something ?

[iron canyon]

#📖lore-chat message you can read the second part of my msg about suo jing, he's the most complicated out of all suspects in huaishen's death

[iron canyon]

you'll know once you proceed w everything (qinchuan & dark surge)

[silver birch]

Cause up until now, all i know is veiled lady tasked YM to investigate the painting she fails to complete

I m worried that i missed some crucial lore

[iron canyon]

there's a dedicated quest about veiled lady (after u complete qinchuan), I do recommend you finishing it first

[silver birch]

In liangzjou/jade gate ?

[iron canyon]

after qinchuan & when you get back to bamboo abode

[silver birch]

Okey then i havent missed anyhting

I know what i m supposed to up until now

The lore anxiety hits me hard when i enter this chat 😂

Keifeng lore almost sent me to a mental asylum

[eternal widget]

Don't forget to collect the dark fragment for the true ending of hexi

[silver birch]

Oh i wont, i regret not doing thzt in qhinghe

I wasnt that much into the game

[iron canyon]

it's all good since the lore pieces are quite scattered, you do need some time to organize and understand everything which is why this chat exists, people would be willing to help

[silver birch]

Thank you ♥️

I try to complete regions before i go to other ones to keep tabs on everything i could, the names tho, very hard to remember

I mean, couldnt u name em somzthing like John china

One last thing that kinda bugs me, who is the person that was writing in the rock ? Death of a govenor, seems quite close to huaishen

[iron canyon]

yeah it's really difficult especially how you get a ton of different characters with the same pinyin, but that's the charm of naming much like in all languages where names carry a meaning

[iron canyon]

Most probably, it was Zhang Qiu (irl history, he was also the one who carved Huaishen's tombstone), in a wandering tale, you could also pick up one of his letters to huaishen, zhang qiu is one of the only few who stood by huaishen's side and was a good friend of his along with Suo Jing ever since they were young (from huaishen's bio)

[silver birch]

I agree, i mean... I literally have no complains abt the game yet 😂

[silver birch]

I suspected so but, he appears in the present time, and huaishen was waaay before present time in fallen liangzhou, how was he still alive

Shouldnt he die of old age ?

Unless i m wrong about the timeline and huaishen s death didnt happen long before fallen liangzhou present time

@crimson birch besides veiled edge of course 😂

We want it

[iron canyon]

The timeline isn't that big though(? liangzhou was set roughly between 851 - 890, plus zhang qiu is most probably around huaishen's age

[silver birch]

Okey then, that explains it then

[iron canyon]

it may be fallen, but those are still in the past (we're wavering between recent & further past)

[silver birch]

My biggest issue with the lore is the names and keeping tabs on timelines, i had to read real history to understand the timeline for guo xin/yichao and golden peach

Between coup and tibetian invasion and the turcs

Game became a history lesson

[silver birch]

Yes, i just assumed that between the fall of lizngzhou and fallen liangzhou, a loooong time has passed, idk why i assumed that tho

[crimson birch]

XD ngl the way they frame it makes us more interested in the history

because of your initial motivation to understand the game, it makes you dive in the history and cultural clues which you might usually not

[silver birch]

Yea but i would ve hated it if it was a real history lesson at school

Way too complicated to be quized on

😂😂

[iron canyon]

for that, Laufie made videos about the historical context for the 3 regions (without spoilers), I recommend 软软喵大人's videos too, she has english subtitles and made videos about liangzhou (so far)

[silver birch]

I avoid videos to avoid spoilers, i watch after finishing region contant

But most questions i have are too specific so they re rarely answerd

Like the question abt the rock carver

Or things i m still confused about like the zombie illness, sun buqi and zhu yu, i m still scattered about those 3 topics

Like i know stuff but i cant write it in a paper coherently, just scattered information that lacks timeline, n that pisses me off a little more than its supposed to 😂

[crimson birch]

feels like we need like a second brain system to organize these some how XD

[silver birch]

I knoow, its like a musquitto bite, it doesnt hurt but it makes you rage

[iron canyon]

SunBuQi in a nutshell is: talented doc, saw through humanity himself -> got obessessed with immortality due to fate, becoming the source of evil with LiZuo as his dream puppet ambadassor

[silver birch]

Like, cant you pay someone to add lore in the website, with chronological order, u just click a character n it tells u everything abt em

[crimson birch]

THIS

i see so many other games having a dedicated lore or wiki page

for wwm? non...

[silver birch]

I mean we ll pay him with all the irresponsible purchases we make

[iron canyon]

The lore & world is just too big and complicated that it's not smth that can be summarized in a short time since whenever new regions are released, they will fill in some of the plotholes, while proceeding to dig even more holes

[silver birch]

True, thats why he s getting payed

😂

And the dream puppet zombie thing, there are like 3 types right ?

One triggered by the dawn to dusk flower like zheng E s lil sister

One triggered by another plant

[iron canyon]

even in cn, the fandom are living with those detail-diving creators that are sometimes very accurate in terms of theories as if they were the devs themselves😭

[silver birch]

N one triggered by "somzthing" ?

[iron canyon]

#📖lore-chat message ⬅️ dream puppet variations

[silver birch]

I refuse to learn a whole new language, i draw the line at extra history lessons

[crimson birch]

WOAH pls we need a good wiki page I beg you

[silver birch]

You re a hero

[iron canyon]

honestly the dream puppets has been in the jianghu since a very long time, but it has been controlled & died down until more recently, which is, Sun BuQi, who revived it and proceeds to cause more mess

[silver birch]

I bow my head to the lore hero

[crimson birch]

stops flipping my hsk books yeah... right...

[silver birch]

Oh okey, so its not him that invented it, i thought it was one of experiments gone wrong

And the zombie woman we meet in the cave that was peaceful, we didnt kill her, that zhu yu right ?

Cause the zombie hzd ties to the silver needle

[crimson birch]

yeah bro saw them and started to be like hmm how much more can I make it worse

wait wasn't zhu yu's body in the tomb we see near the river?

[silver birch]

Zombie was treating other zombies if i remember correctly

[iron canyon]

some yes, like Dawn to Dusk which is originally harmless, but the source was from an immortal parasite (if you're interested, I have made some notes about the source of immortality since it was tied to LiZuo & QingYi's story as well)

[iron canyon]

it was one of the doctors from SN, I can't really remember if he has a name, but it's not Zhu Yu for sure

[silver birch]

And how is zhu yu connected to that whole mess, the illness and sun buqi

Idk why i m assuming they re connected, i did that quest months ago

But i remember some sort of connection

[crimson birch]

yeah that's what I was under the impression too there was a group along with sn disciples other ppl were already infected along with him however even amongst the mental corrosion that sn disciple still tried to heal the patients i guess a doctor's heart cannot be erased but this begs me a question will humans be able to keep their humanity in tact even after being turned dream puppets

[iron canyon]

zhu yu was a victim of his irresponsibility for not cleaning up his mess underground, a flood happened 8 years ago that caused those flowers he left to rise to the surface, while infecting the mist thus the misveil forest

[crimson birch]

because even though the sn disciple was still corroded his kindness as a doctor was still not erasable...

just a thought ngl i don't support LiZuo's plan btw a psa

[iron canyon]

Sometimes when a person's will is strong enough, they can retain a certain level of sanity, like back then I remember someone mentioning about the ghost soldiers in the ghost market, they are also affected by a poison mist that has similar qualities to dream puppets, but they were roaming the area since "protecting the commoners" were the thoughts engraved in their minds (yet they can't control themselves and would attack people), or like QingYi who relied in LiZuo as emotional support and tried to suicide whenever she regained part of her sanity

[silver birch]

Oh okey i understand now, she was the dead body in the cave

[crimson birch]

have you finished the wandering tales in kaifeng where you have to collect a letter from a tomb hanging with chains?

[silver birch]

I think i should find sometime, create a new character and redo the game

[crimson birch]

that's ZhuYu's coffin

[silver birch]

Man i dont even have time to play the actual rzgions anymore 😂

[iron canyon]

Zhu Yu's story is complicated since she's practically the hidden "MC" of kaifeng, her story is everywhere

[silver birch]

I honestly dont remember, i havr the memory of a gold fish, but i think i m at 90% keifeng

[silver birch]

Exactly, by far my favorite character

[crimson birch]

Tian Ying in Qinghe, Zhu Yu in Kaifeng the hidden heros

[silver birch]

She s super cool

But peicing up her story is a struggle

Tho ir u can clear my confusion

She s burried in the cave but wasnt she killed by big zhao s brother ?

I thought he assassinated her for getting too much clout, n no one should out clout the emperor

[iron canyon]

Feng Yi (her husband) went to become a spy at the khitans for this reason, it's not really the court's responsibility (during that time, kaifeng was busy with big zhao's ascension, ShiShouXin who was responsible in aiding ZhuYu broke his promise since he was busy with Big Zhao) which complicates her death even more

[silver birch]

Your post abt the illness was very insightful

Didnt know abt a 4th variation

[iron canyon]

plus she was buried & sealed, due to the dawn to dusk she was originally infected, she decided to fight poison with poison (from her last letter to feng yi), a last resort so that she could defend, but that makes her body dangerous

[silver birch]

Yea, he broke his promiss to aid with the flood

[iron canyon]

that's because for the 4th, it's only mentioned in qinchuan XD

[silver birch]

I m going there tonight, enough is enough

I m calling in sick tmrw

[silver birch]

N how did she get infected with the zombie thing ?

All i know abt her is, she had ties xith chai rong, she was the golden lief hero, she was mother therisa adopting everyone, river master and related somehownto buqi n zombies

[iron canyon]

It affected sorrowfield villagers (survivors of Zheng E's family), she saved & adopted Zheng E so the two went to try to find a cure for those survivors but both of them ended up getting infected

[silver birch]

Wait ! Zheng E got infected too ?

How is he still fully human

And alive as fuhk

[crimson birch]

yeah he got infected some of the blue accessories you see are dtd vines growing out of him in a sense

[crimson birch]

he decided to fight poison with poison in a sense which you learn when you give Zhai Xu the letter

hence kind of explains why he is still kind of functioning as a human

[iron canyon]

Dawn to Dusk is considered the weakest version out of all (since it's originally harmless), but zheng e likely experimented on himself / is somehow having a decent level of poison resistance, the two were really desparate for a solution, somehow Zheng E managed to turn it into his fighting weapon & strength

[silver birch]

Okey then u can say he found a way after zhu yu s death

Thats why she died but he didnt

[iron canyon]

with Zheng E's character, he likely did the experiments on himself not wanting to affect ZhuYu. Zhu Yu was a different case because she was determined to defend the flood, and there's nothing much she could do except for using a stronger poison to recover her full strength, like a Dawn to Dusk flower (that withers after a certain amount of time), she shone one last time and died (with the reason behind unclear)

[crimson birch]

more than found a cure, I would say he just find a way to live alongside the poison and build resistance with it(?) he is still suffering from quite the lung problems and his hair whitened as a result of the poison steeping in him

[iron canyon]

The side effects are also unknown, so we never know if it would suddenly trigger/worsen, Zheng E is also suffering from the side effects (coughing, stiff body, feeling cold)

[iron canyon]

actually now that I think about it, the symptoms of stiff body & feeling cold all times, doesn't appear on the survivors (except for coughing), ~~it's looking similar with the 4th... ~~

[crimson birch]

wait... now that you say it... Zhai Xu notes that he got from YM that Zheng E wrote is explicitly about fighting it with poison to the poison...

which matches the fourth one that Lan Ao have... and also Hollow Vale's connection to it

[iron canyon]

and the fact that Zheng E once got help from a mysterious person in retrieving smth from the hollow vale🤯

[iron canyon]

with how the poison/disease is also called as hollow vale (originally 无心 which means heartless, since the poison slows their heartbeat until it's close to none...)

[iron canyon]

Zheng E's poison resistance is definitely smth else, especially that with his character, he's the type that would willingly go extreme for his close ones...

[crimson birch]

Hollow Vale... ||esp with their appearance in the recent scene with Qianye|| I do wonder if their research on the 4 variantions of the illness is much further than Sliver Needle?

[crimson birch]

Not to mention somehow this doctor-martial artist prodigy managed to control the DtD vines and flowers as his own weapon

Is he in a way getting closer and closer to 'becoming' a DtD but still holds the consciousness of a human hence his strength and precision over them?

[iron canyon]

hollow vale were a bunch of patients having the similar disease (dream puppets), the fact that they're somehow, fated with SN in a way but idt they could actually come out with a cure yet since they're technically either suppressing / fighting it with smth else

[iron canyon]

And with SunBuQi still lurking out there, along with how immortality is also threading the story, I wonder how this will develop

[crimson birch]

Oh so Hollow Vale is actually a collection of the victims of the disease. I didn't have that information so I think my guess go a bit further but I feel like the sect having the most suffered population though might have some tricks up their sleeves as the members of those are still conscious in a way the same way Zheng E is affected by it but still not mindless

[iron canyon]

Sadly, our info regarding them is too less to make a conclusion yet, but I suppose they are still using currently available methods like suppressing, decreasing the symptoms while they try to find a cure

[crimson birch]

In a way the illness have a theme of freezing, stagnant, and slowness with them which kind of ties with the concept of immortality where you are frozen in a specific time frame and live life with that specific appearance

Plus the whitening hair of LiZuo, his immortality and same signs similar to ZhengE 🤔 along with how QingYi did withstand the poison

[iron canyon]

With a deadly price of losing their sanity & what makes them human (which is why LiZuo thinks it's a fantastic idea to implement since no desire->no conflict->peace)

[crimson birch]

Seems twisted but ngl I am starting to see his vision in a way

[iron canyon]

I wonder how LiZuo is actually "sane", if he really achieved immortality or maybe it's because he already discarded what makes him human (jk

[crimson birch]

Hmm dream puppets become when a human gets infected -> infection spread to whole body -> human sanity loss -> dead alive people
however for LiZuo I feel like maybe he went this process like you mentioned
slow sanity loss -> human gets infected -> infection spread to whole body -> dead alive person

very far fetched theory tho

[silver birch]

whats a hollow vale?

[mystic idol]

cn lore players basically make a giant notes jpg out of like huge pixel canvas and copy and paste screenshots into it as notes

[crimson birch]

||future sect that is not came out yet||

[silver birch]

i ll get out for now, i ll comeback after i m up to date with the content

😂

do u have massive lag when playing in CN ?

can u just download the CN version n play it

from EU

[crimson birch]

Hmm I want to suggest a lore wiki page but then again everything is just speculation except for some concrete points so is it still doable?

[crimson birch]

I am from Asia region so no lag, no restriction for me that much.

[crimson birch]

you need to|| buy a account or ||verify using your irl documents on Dashen app to get a valid netease game account to play it

[silver birch]

is that JPG written in chinese ?

we can just go n read it?

[silver birch]

wth XD

is that a game account or a drivers license ?

[crimson birch]

yup cn gaming have regulation

[crimson birch]

game account XD they have strict regulations I think hence the verification process

[silver birch]

but yea, it makes sense, they do that in their shopping websites too

i used to buy stuff from taobao to resell, it was a bitsh to get stuff

[honest rain]

I won't risk speculating on white hair just yet😭 with Zheng E we can say for sure it's DtD (both he and A'Ran frozen with DtD have it, but other relatives have black hair => we can conclude their white hair is DtD). For Li Zuo, we have no definitive connection to DtD just yet. We can't say if it's WWM tying everything together with DtD desease, or "hair turned white overnight" trope popular in -xia stories, or an indicator to Li Zuo's age. And what's with Wen's white hair😭

Wuque and the mirage boat guy have white hair, but the cousin working in guild has normal black hair, so what's with Wens😭

[mystic idol]

no i dont mean theres a central one that people add to

each creator makes their own

[silver birch]

is it accessible ? like can we just go n read the notes ?

[mystic idol]

no haha

[crimson birch]

Also with that I'm thinking maybe some kind of cultivation stuff? Because Ying Ying hair got blonder too

[mystic idol]

i saw a few from videos where creators were pulling up their notes

its like a picture where all you can see are black dots

then they zoom in 258x and you see the text/screenshots

[silver birch]

i m really confused hahahaha

[mystic idol]

[silver birch]

what the..

why everything has to be hard to get, cant life just hand an easy W every now n then

[silver birch]

i ll stick to bothering @crimson birch and @iron canyon thank u very much

😂

[mystic idol]

[silver birch]

i have a question that is not lore related, i just need other people s opinions on it

do you think the game is dying somehow ? i keep hearing that but it doesnt very much seem like it

cause 2 things, it would suck if it dies before the story wraps up, and i dont wanna spend more money on a game that s gonna end before i finish with it

[crimson birch]

well some ppl say steam numbers are geting low but steam redowloads everything from the start hence people migrate to the official launcher. Game will have up and down patches like gacha games though yes it will get a bit dead during long down times but I do not think the community and the game will die that soon yet

[honest rain]

You can take a look at them in the list of sects, but we don't have much just yet. Even when we go to steal soulshade umbrella from them, the disciples aren't even wearing sect's uniform😭
What we know:

• they are mostly sufferers of Dream Puppet Calamity infection/poison, but some join to help their infected close people [for example, iirc current sect master joined in hopes of finding cure for his sister]
• the sect goes all the way back, but they are very private. They "disappear" every time DPC cases go down, and "appear" when the cases increase
• They practice different methods of medical research, including poison work and self-experimentation. First is the reason they have bad reputation, second is the reason SN don't like them. (And they're the one that give sect task to "drink poisoned wine during Five Animals Frolicking")
• Zheng E met someone from HV when exploring Sun Buqi's lab in Mistveil forest

That's about all I can recall

[silver birch]

and the fits coming up, thats a whole month worth of salary

[crimson birch]

same anxiety im having whlie following the mangaka who said their story is not almost half finished and they have a chronic muscle/nervous disease

[clever trout]

At first Tian Ying and now her

[silver birch]

dont talk about that, manga anxiety is insane

[clever trout]

They finds poor 16 y/o young master to bait to fake kill em lmao

[crimson birch]

im quaking in my boots of whether I will ever see the conclusion and mystery of the manga i follow

[mystic idol]

li zuo still sane in the sense he’s capable of logical thought within his own reason/opinion theres a theory of why he wants the peach and its related to how he plans to carry out his plan to make everyone into this zombie version

[honest rain]

Probably. Iirc, Wen Wuhen, Li Zuo and Zheng E have same hair "texture", so I wonder if Ember of East "golden" hair is really blonde or is it reflecting light from the golden clothes she's wearing

[silver birch]

hxh is gonna give me a nervous breakdown someday

[mystic idol]

its not necessarily just “infect everyone and make them dead/zombie”

[crimson birch]

wait a theory? I wanna hear it out. Because the capabilities of golden peach are still speculating and I wonder how Li Zuo will make use of this for his plans

[clever trout]

Is wen wuque a guy or girl? They pronounced he and she at different places

[crimson birch]

Wen Wuhen, the white hair boat master, a guy. It's localization mistranslating the pronoun IIRC (mixed Wuhen and Wuque my bad)

[clever trout]

For zheng e it was that frost fungus thingy...but i thought li zuo just got old 😭

[crimson birch]

ok the reflection thing 🤔

[clever trout]

Wuque is ember of the east right? Wuhen was boat master

[mystic idol]

Wen Wuque is girl

Wen Wuhen is guy

[crimson birch]

oh wait Wuhen and Wuque my bad

[clever trout]

Wuhen is clearly guy...they just mispronounced wuque several times ig

[crimson birch]

Wuque uses he because of the ember of the east disguise. But Wuque is actually a girl yes

[clever trout]

Even yingying said "his name is wen wuque"

[honest rain]

There was an influx of players that came for the hype of "new open-world adventure", not for the game itself. Naturally, there will be a drop in players as hypechasers move on to newer shinier things and some ppl just drop for boredom, but the game will remain with solid "core" playerbase. The game isn't dying, it's just natural post-hype drop

[mystic idol]

We are harmonizers, a little hint of our power is kind of seen in hexi. We enter painter’s dream and are able to influence aspects of his dream

[clever trout]

Wait.... real ember of the east is a different person?

[honest rain]

https://tenor.com/view/rainn-wilson-shh-secret-prank-gif-17131726

(Girl masquerading as guy for political reasons)

[silver birch]

cause i been trying to get my friends to play it (via gaslighting mainly) and they drop it almost immediatly, saying the barrier of entry is kinda large

[mystic idol]

By extension, ym is able to inject their own ideas and influence another person’s dreams — dreams are the subconscious domain of a person where sometimes ideas lie

we see this as an example in the sense that when we start hexi, the painter technically doesnt know who we are

[honest rain]

Her family is strictly patriarchal, so to pull a "young merchant from noble Wen family" she must present as a guy, bc it is somewhat expected that only sons of Wen family get to be merchants

[clever trout]

Bro sucked on the jade as baby so prolly got the power transfered in his/her body 😭😭😭

[mystic idol]

no, this has to do with harmonizers

[silver birch]

whats a harmonyzer ? i never heard that word before in the game

yea... i ll comeback after finishing the content, my bad

[mystic idol]

you’ll see it once you finish qinchuan

[clever trout]

I finished it but forgot what harmonizer was

[mystic idol]

and it’ll be explained in part through dark surge in qinchuan as well

[clever trout]

Oh didn't play dark surge yet

[silver birch]

this chat pulls me in cause i like to talk about lore and this is the only place where i can do that, so even tho i m not done with it i keep trying to get spoilers

[crimson birch]

curiosity kills the cat

[silver birch]

i m also trying to get my wwm friends to care about the lore (via gaslighting) just so i could talk abt it

[crimson birch]

||but satisfaction brought it back||

[silver birch]

but i also failed at that, i think i need the golden peach

[crimson birch]

me with my irl friends TT like you guys like danmei/wuxia/xianxia pls come to wwm and they're like nope...

[mystic idol]

become harmonizer then you can plant the idea in their head

[silver birch]

i will delete discord, call in sick tomorrow and finish dasan pass and the new reagion, dark surges and every thing

trust me, i m not joking, ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !

[crimson birch]

hmm propaganda spreader jkjk
but harmonizer truly is a very fragile yet powerful ability to have
is that why only those with kind hearts (YM and BaiChuyuu) got it?

[silver birch]

it just will suck when there s no contant to go through anymore, PVP kinda gets old once u get mythic

is this harmonizer thing related to windsense ? cause it always seemed weird to me, like why do we have wind sense

[mystic idol]

right now its not clear how it comes, but its suggested it has to do with time spent

for example its assumed at the moment that bai chuyu and us have spent the longest with the jades, albeit in two parts

[crimson birch]

from what I understand wind sense is the ability to be able to sense what others doesn't the thief at Wen wuhen boat also have it(?) but harmonizer by far is only YM and Chuyuu

[honest rain]

Yes! Basically Wind Sense is part of local cultivation, but YM has it extra buffed bc of Harmonizer affinity and pure heart or smth

[mystic idol]

basically that haha ^

but our wind sense is not really wind sense

[honest rain]

If you watched Demon Slayer, it's like Tanjiro's smell: everyone has sense of smell, but Tanjiro is special like that. In WWM many people can develop Wind Sense, but YM is specially strong in that sense (and for gameplay reasons)

[silver birch]

okey, something else that i ll know after finishing the content

[silver birch]

okey, i understand

so people can develop super power type shet

[honest rain]

"Cultivation story"

[silver birch]

wind sense isnt something special

[honest rain]

Technically, it's all just martial arts

[silver birch]

explains a lot

[mystic idol]

theres an idiom in chinese 万籁有声 which means “there is a sound to all things”. Wind sense is the ability to pick up on that sound. You can interpret this sound to be hyper fixation on sounds such as movements, heart beats, etc, which is how its explained in martial arts

[honest rain]

That's why running/jumping disturbs Wind sense skill

[silver birch]

so same with selestial seize and median touch

just martial arts on fentenal

unrelated to the jade/golden peach

[mystic idol]

A lot of this game’s design etc are rooted in a chinese philosophy called 庄子 (zhuangzi philisophy)

but as a little easter egg, the cn name for the chinese gacha pulls are 和鸣 and 聆音 (for standard gacha and limited gacha), which mean “harmony” and “sound listening” respectively

[valid stratus]

The style is XianXia

[honest rain]

Game defines itself as wuxia, but it's somewhere in the middle

[crimson birch]

There are Wuxia and Xianxia elements mixed but it identifies itself as Wuxia. But also ||(ဗမာဘဲလားမသိ)||

[valid stratus]

What's the difference

I understand that the Xianxia genre centers around cultivation and daoism, but am unfamiliar with Wuxia

[limber bough]

speaking of idioms , are all outfits are named with idioms?

[mystic idol]

wuxia is also centered around cultivation, but focus is more on grounded terms and concepts regarding the way of the world (Jianghu), ideologies of life, morals, etc

xianxia tends to emphasize in cultivation levels, and maybe the other stuff comes as an after thought

[crimson birch]

for me xianxia is immortal, realms, non human cultivation vs wuxia is more grounded human conflicts, power struggle, and justice is my shortcut memory remembering

and how I explain it to ppl who don't know it XD

[mystic idol]

good example of xianxia is ni xian

(Renegade immortal)

the story premises with his “way of the world” but quickly focus moves away from that into his cultivation level, going into his journey to becoming immortal, different realms, battle vs gods/people who have godlike powers, etc

[crimson birch]

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-elite-elite-ball-elite-ball-knowledge-ball-knowledge-gif-9337371460101398527

[distant sage]

nice

[crystal fable]

anyone able to get the new achievements that were added today? i've tried the "We're cool now" achievement but the thief does not spawn but i already have found a coin on top of the roof i also have changed the time to ZI hour

[swift moss]

Is the new download the imperial palace update?

[proper cove]

I wonder what’s her true identity

Also what defeat the Anxi army? The Tang army?

[finite pond]

is the void king really dead

[finite pond]

anxi army is part of the tang army

[lofty hinge]

Might want to try one of the gameplay-related channels if you want help with that. This channel's for story-related discussion.

[finite pond]

The anxi protectorate held the line for 50 years without support from the empire against the tubuo or empire of tibet which yeah. they finally fell.

[keen yarrow]

just did "her legacy"

https://giphy.com/gifs/emoji-meme-sad-pc-V6gKvIt1JozxrMQPFc

it should've been me

[lean magnet]

You can think xianxia as high fantasy, stories of gods and demon with people with over the top power while wuxia is low fantasy, superpower martial artist

[lean magnet]

God ever since I learn about Guo Xin, I have way too much respect for him cuz he literally could just decide cut off tang ties and become basically a king but he never did it and is willing to serve them

[lean magnet]

Dead as hell

[lean magnet]

Isn’t there is a genre called xuanhuan that is a mix of xianxia and wuxia

[proper cove]

So what defeat the Anxi army

[mystic idol]

xuanhuan is actually just fantasy

when any kind of “technology” or system depicted is unrealistic

but usually depicting/sharing similarities to xianxia

aka gods, monsters, etc

[grand spoke]

where i can ask about quest guys? i'm so confused

[sinful mural]

age,

and this #📖lore-chat message

[wraith sigil]

which quest

[lean magnet]

So it like a junk drawer where if you can’t identify which genre it belong to. You just put it as other

[mystic idol]

yeah that's an apt way to put it i think

[normal widget]

Will Blissful retreat gets rebuild? :(

[stoic fjord]

Does anyone want to play with me I’m on ps5 dm me

[crimson birch]

currently it is being rebuilt by the still remaining villager but it will never be the same blissful retreat perhaps

[normal widget]

i refused to proceed the main quest because of this (im on my sec acc rn)

i will eventually, but slowly...

[lean magnet]

Well if it make you better, soon we will join in with the villagers to rebuild blissful retreat

[normal widget]

We will?? Omg this is great news! I'm looking forward to it then! :D Blissful Retreat is always gonna be my home anyway. ❤️ It crushed my heart so much whenever I visited it such a wrecked condition 💔

[proper cove]

Why didn’t they get support from the empire 😭

[foggy tiger]

Cuz there was no more empire

The soldiers are authorised to mint coins. So they continued minting unaware the empire fell with the coin dated one year after the fall of tang.

[proper cove]

What led to the fall of the empire??

[steel pulsar]

Hey wonderar

[foggy tiger]

I think it's better to see some YouTube vids. Goose girl has really solid explanations on the lore

[lofty hinge]

#🌱beginner-questions or any gameplay-focused channel would be a better choice than lore channel for getting help with gameplay.

[carmine ice]

[mystic frost]

I’m single asf

[hollow tendon]

Morning! Don't just have a great day—make it a great day. You have the power to do it.

[crimson birch]

not the place

[mystic frost]

Lmaoo

[royal jewel]

Huh... I'm curious what's the next battle pass

[crimson birch]

unannounced yet so only devs know

[royal jewel]

Oof

[granite karma]

[gloomy flame]

honk honk!

[twilit lagoon]

[sharp lily]

Anxi army is part of the Tang army that did not get recalled to Chang'An after the An Lushan rebellion

[iron canyon]

Since it's possible to retain a portion of sanity/emotions when one's will is strong enough, the moment LiZuo decided to discard his humanity & implement those dream puppets I am overthinking again XD

[iron canyon]

I'm really impressed by them especially how they could pinpoint stuff and made crazily accurate deductions out of the limited info

[crimson birch]

me everything LiZuo is about to do smth

[crimson birch]

mega nerds TT even among nerds they are bigger nerds

[sharp lily]

Mainly the Tubo, they occupied most of the area south of Hexi.. and Hexi.. is kind of like Strait of Hormuz if you follow current events. The Tang owned that land and points northwest, but after the rebellion, they withdrew most of the troops. The rest defended the area all their lives.

[clever trout]

Why tian ying and that clinic uncle has the same name?

[lean magnet]

Tbh in pinyin it is the same but in the actual word is different

Tian Ying- 田英
The definitely a dude doctor- 天不收

[sharp lily]

The doctor is called "heaven won't take him" (tian bu shou) why does he say it's the same?

[lean magnet]

I thought the doctor is called undated tian in English subtitles. So that why there is a confusion

[sharp lily]

They're both called Tian but then lots of people are called Tian 🙂

[iron canyon]

Same pinyin, different character

[sharp lily]

In Chinese your surname/last name is first.. so Tian is their surname/last name. They just happen to have the same last name/surname 🙂

[mystic idol]

not even the same last name

just spelled the same by pinyin

one is 天

one is 田

tonally they are diff

cuz 天 is tiān

[sharp lily]

True but the poor guy is so confused already

[mystic idol]

田 is tián

[sharp lily]

In English they would both be called Tian though.

[mystic idol]

but its important to recognize the difference in its original language

rather than to view it only through the lens of english and take that as face value

[rain pine]

HOW DO I CONTINUE BETWEEN PAINT AND PAST, WHY DOES IT SAYS PENDING

HELPPP

[crimson birch]

qinchuan?

[rain pine]

Yes

is it alr available

[crimson birch]

yup, now new region is almost out

for the quest conflict, finish the friends quest first, continue the painter quest, then the campaign quest last

[rain pine]

I alr finished the paper yuri quest

[crimson birch]

that's liangzhou

liangzhou -> qinchuan -> imperial palace (latest)

is your paint and past quest conflict ok?

[rain pine]

MAYBE IDK

[crimson birch]

?

[rain pine]

can I show u an ss, can't send it here

[crimson birch]

sure send it in dms

[finite pond]

I mean how tho, they're literally cut away and I doubt the Tibet empire would let someone a Tang soldier.

[finite pond]

50 years without support from the tang, and getting constantly besieged by the invaders

[coarse epoch]

Gm

[silk tundra]

[crimson birch]

better for #💬gacha-and-fashion-talk this is lore chat

[rigid parrot]

My bad I intended to post it there and clicked on the wrong chat

[lean magnet]

I don’t think they under the Tibet empire at that time, just merely being attacked by them. They being cut away create a prefect opportunity for Guo Xin to basically go awol and call himself the king thus cutting any ties to the tang since what are they going to do as they have their own issues to handle

[finite pond]

if i remember correctly, the Hexi road back then is brutal aside from the tibet, the oghuz are attakcing them too.. even then if Guo calls himself a king, who would trust him? all of the soldiers are loyal to the tang.

[lean magnet]

I would argue that if the soldiers are not fully loyal to the tang, it create a prefect situation for that to happen. Granted not rlly a good outcome as they getting screwed over either way.

Also I would say that a power hungry person would ignore even his men to gain a position of power where he doesn’t need to answer to anyone.

In no way that both situations will have any better outcome then the current one

[finite pond]

true

[weary aspen]

What a good dps/tank build

[lean magnet]

Go to pve or pvp discussion

[celest flume]

#🧐pve-build-discussion #⚔️pvp-build-discussion

[coarse epoch]

What chat is for general conversations

[celest flume]

#💬martial-pavilion #💬off-topic

[lean magnet]

How are ppl keep coming here with unrelated topic? I swear it only happen here

[silk tundra]

What's the next battle pass outfit for global?

[crimson birch]

#game-announcement this is lore chat

[lean magnet]

Hi guys, what is the meaning of life and will my dad come back

[clever trout]

I thought unfated was a title and his name was tian 😭

Mc called him uncle tian too

Was hella confused in blind lady quest

[lean magnet]

I pretty it’s is a title and tian you can say it’s his surname. Think that how I address my one of my family friends

[limber bough]

btw wanna ask twin blade is based on short swords?

[flint sand]

I think no

[fluid sundial]

Good morning

[sharp lily]

No idea really if that was really his name or not. Tian Bushou is a valid name 🙂

[honest rain]

It is! His "cn.name" is TianBuShou, following the structure you mentioned. Translators prioritized the pun about his crush on Han over directly using the name (the vague translation would be "Heaven doesn't accept"/"Tian Untaken" =[eng.adaptation]=> "Unfated")

[sharp lily]

The entire thing about him being female and having a crush on Han was totally lost in the English version

[honest rain]

True, the translation is so intentionally weird around his texts (I say intentionally, bc usually the machine translation glitches are different, Tian's case was a choice)

[icy thistle]

i think there's like a single book/note that elaborates on Tian being a woman actually and having crush on Han..? when I first went thru story I completely missed it 🙁

[honest rain]

"Frost Beneath the Well" on Tian's PoV, and another one that goes deeper on their relationship (I don't recall the title, smth about fragrance)

[fading yoke]

.

[sharp lily]

yea it's on reddit but it refers to her as "he" so no one got it 🙂

[honest rain]

"Her" be sounding like

[sharp lily]

I actually read that but I thought "he" was a mistranslation 😄

[honest rain]

I'm pretty sure cn.ver consistently uses nale pronouns for Tian (unlike Yingying/Ember of East crossdressing case, and Feng Ruzhi mistranslation, and Qianye visual misunderstanding). There are other gender-iffy stories in WWM, so we can see how writers make decisions. I'd say it's safe to say Tian's story doesn't include crossdressing, as he's written very differently than Ember of East and Liuli

[atomic parrot]

Aye as long as they keep making them super hot it doesnt even matter if they mess up the pronouns

But in translation these sorts of things do happen its common

The chinese gender pronouns for both male and female is 'shi' with differences in the characters so translating that to english does confuse the AI ig (if thats what they use)

[honest rain]

Cn.male pronoun ("he") is 他, cn.female pronoun ("she") is 她

Both sound "ta", but as you can see they are visually distinct, so when discussing text (yk, what we are doing) we can say definitely if writers intended "he" or "she"

[honest rain]

First-person ("I") texts or impersonal (no pointed pronouns) texts are what confuses the machine, and what is seen in places like Feng Ruzhi compendium entry (both 1st-person) and Lone Cloud master description (impersonal) [a few others, but these I recall of the top of my head). Both go to eng. "he", so we can determine that Evil Translation Machine AI defaults to "he"

[atomic parrot]

Right mb its 'ta'

Ive forgot my chinese lol

[honest rain]

AI can also tell the difference between 他 and 她 as different symbols use different code, so it doesn't matter if they sound same for us. The 1st-person and impersonal is what's confusing for machine

[atomic parrot]

Well to me since i practiced writing the character i notice it but ofc for ai its not different

[atomic parrot]

Oh

I thought the voice over was in formal and 1st person?

In cn

[honest rain]

AI uses code, not pinyin/sound, so it doesn't care

[honest rain]

Same as in English, but translation AI doesn't rely on sound, so it is irrelevant to discussion

[atomic parrot]

(Ik im gonna go to college to study cse only in a few months)

[atomic parrot]

I see

Btw for bujian mountains i saw that u can build rollercoasters on the map, will they give us a building menu fix or will it be the same then (thoughts r fine if u dont hv an idea)

[honest rain]

How computer/AI sees text is very different from how humans see text! The machine uses list of unique codes such as Unicode or other methods, so even similar sounding and looking characters such as і-ї (dont recall if cn use unicode, so different example) all have distinct unmistakable reference numbers. As such, AI won't mess up he/she – 他/她 because it isn't privy to same pitfalls as humans

[silent atlas]

Hey, i kinda want to do kaifeng in a chronological order so that i can understand the lore better, is there any guide on that? Also, should i do hexi region before or after imperial palace?

[atomic parrot]

Useful info, thanks for that,i need to learn the AI-ML stuff so this stuff really helps

[mystic idol]

there's a lot of direct implications for tian being female crossdressed as a male

but for the games that identify the character as female like yingying

they themselves still identify (in this case, see themselves) as female

[honest rain]

Rule of thumb, main story quest first, then everything else.

Jianghu Legacy are good to play as they are enumerated.

From more specific, I recommend "12 tears feud" and Mistveil forest encounter quest before Ever-Normal Granary

[mystic idol]

unfated tian is a case of someone who was born female, and now essentially accepted this disguise/sees themselves as male

[honest rain]

You are this close to the word, it can't be that hard

[mystic idol]

idk what youre trying to get me to say nor why it matters here

they self identify as male? sure

[silent atlas]

Errr tian as in tian ying??

[honest rain]

"A person born female that identifies as male" thats trans man

[honest rain]

Unfated Tian, Tian Ying is different

[mystic idol]

trans what

transgender or transsexual

transsexual is specifically medically alteration, in which case it's implied tian has not undergone

or maybe they have

[honest rain]

Considering the whole facechange ordeal, who knows

[mystic idol]

well facechange was just that

face change, it didn't say anything about body

[honest rain]

He's cosmetic surgeon working with pro cosmetic surgeon

[mystic idol]

but we can assume even if it exists

the point of this debate

is not what tian now identifies as

but what they were in the past

no one is questioning tian is "uncle tian" in his current identity and role

[honest rain]

If they can figure out bone changing cream (Lady Ugly quest), they can figure out the rest

But you're right, other than the mustache there's no proof Tian did anything to transition body

[mystic idol]

the debate as i understand it was whether or not they were, at some point, female

[median plume]

Bro,what are yall talking about bro

[honest rain]

Unfated Tian's passport

A regular topic here😆

[mystic idol]

not even a passport

[mystic idol]

cuz its about the past

[median plume]

Unfated tyan Is my father

[honest rain]

Who gave Doudou a phone

[mystic idol]

iirc, the debate came when someone pointed out it seems like tian was a cross dressing female disguised as a male char

[median plume]

WHAT in the actual FOCK?

[mystic idol]

there's like 3-4 texts in qinghe

[median plume]

Whos idea was to think unfated tian Is a female,whoever thought this or whoever gave you the idea of this Is getting banned

[honest rain]

Yeah, that's why I point out that "trans man" is rather appropriate term. It encapsulates "was female, now male" core without going into nitty-gritty anatomy/gender detail

One thing we can say for sure, writers didn't write him as female crossdressing into male, as he's written distinctly different from Yingying and Liuli

[median plume]

Ye alright bro,writer a whole history chapter

[mystic idol]

this is common knowledge atp in cn so

just because you don't know it

doesn't mean you can pretend it doesn't exist

[median plume]

Youre banned

Calling the mod rn

[honest rain]

Go ban WWM then, idk what else to tell you, that's in-game

[median plume]

Ive had enough of this

[mystic idol]

yeah, my point was that yingying and liuli still definitely identifies as female

and their "male" counterparts are merely temporary disguises

[median plume]

Interesting topic,the question Is,IM ACTUALLY A WOMAN

[mystic idol]

liuli -> only to fool the lady she felt sympathetic for
yingying -> to avoid judgement and gain power in weiyang

[mystic idol]

sure if you want to be, no ones going to stop you nor care

you can ragebait/troll all you want but it doesn't change whats in the game

[median plume]

RAHHH,I WONT LET YOU DESTROY MY WOOOOOOORLD

[mystic idol]

actually this doesn’t impact anything of it

if you see uncle tian as your father why would their birth gender affect you

shouldnt you respect what they view themselves as now regardless

[honest rain]

To add to that, we had their "secret mission"+identity reveals combined, while Tian's Ferryman sidegig was MSQ, separated from his past (revealed in few sentences "hidden" in books). For me, the difference in writing reveals that he doesn't fall into same trope as them

[median plume]

Its for profit🗿

[crimson birch]

yeah if you fail to accept someone just because they do not fit YOUR worldview do you really accepted them in the first place or were you just trying to fit them to how you would want them to act?

[crimson birch]

still doesn't get how this destroys your world ngl

[median plume]

Bro im just spamming memes

[median plume]

Cuz i feel UTTERLY bored

And that phrase was from goku

[honest rain]

We are discussing smth, go elsewhere to find a babysitter

[median plume]

CHUMP i aint a kid?😭im telling my mom😈

Just jk

[honest rain]

You are definitely throwing a fit and begging for attention like one

[crimson birch]

https://tenor.com/view/facepalm-really-stressed-mad-angry-gif-16109475

[honest rain]

Anyways

[median plume]

i aint from YT shorts😭(i was,not anymore,luckily)

even if tiktok doesnt change so much

I hate those people

ANYWAY,lets restart the argument,where do i find this thing written about tian?

Is It like in the surge thingy or...

[honest rain]

Qinghe books, "Frost Beneath the Well" cn.version (omitted in eng.translation), and one more I can't recall the name

[median plume]

Ohhhh its a collectible thing

And its only in china servers,OF COURSE

They always give us the crumbs

[honest rain]

No, it is on global, you just need to switch your in-game language

[median plume]

Oh,i have to switch to chinese..

Alright lets pop google translate

As soon as i can play

[honest rain]

Once upon a time there was a post with the list of all 4 times Tian's past is mentioned, but I can't find it now

[crimson birch]

do you remember who sent it in dc or was it a reddit post?

[median plume]

K uhhh,so,there Is a problem,at the clinic there Is tian whining no?the first time i found him in the back of the structure,later in the game,and still now i hear him whining but when i go there he isnt there,do i have the wrong hour?

Or Is It bugged?

[honest rain]

It was here. I tried looking through keywords, but nothing (I might just be using wrong words). Don't recall the name, it was a few months back😭

[crimson birch]

I was also trying to search with similar method unfated tian perhaps a more through and slow search will help us

[honest rain]

I recall the post listed specific quotes from cn.texts, so if you can pull something like the "two female hearts" sentence or "sitting in the well, pretending to be the man he was not" from cn.text, it might do the trick

[crimson birch]

#📖lore-chat message

earliest i found was this one 🤔

[honest rain]

I'll try to looking for exact post a tad bit later

[hard ingot]

Do yall have a recommendation of who to watch for lore on Youtube?

[median plume]

There is no one doing good videos about lore im sorry,wwm even tho its a cool game,It still doesnt get recognized enough for good youtobers to appear and tell about the lore

So....use google

[keen yarrow]

is the harmonizer how you canonically get wind sense?

[crimson birch]

WWMgirl from top of my head

[hard ingot]

Ill try her then

[crimson birch]

another youtuber which I like also explains rhe historical records and how they deviate from the wwm lore wait ill send the name here again

www.youtube.com/@软软喵大人

i also rec her as well

[icy thistle]

it is written about it in the eng version as well tho? after going on about Tian's crush on Han there's just a tiny bit at the end mentioning Tian being a woman. idk how much different the chn writing is tho, from eng i definitely ended up with the impression of Tian being a woman but becoming indefinitely a man for someone/something/the mission(? i can't remember exactly maybe i'm just misremembering). The writing didn't give me the impression of Tian actually being trans tho (since becoming a man was a tool for something rather than being about how Tian saw themself, idk if Chn version suggests otherwise

[rare sleet]

did they mention when the new server is going to be released?

[alpine grove]

Eid mubarak ✨️

[icy rock]

28

[honest rain]

The eng is very weird about it! Someone on the team decided to exclude the specific moments to the point that it's vague (seeing byweekly discussion here, deserved, eng.community is weird around it)

[honest rain]

Idk where you got that it was "for a mission", but might be some source I haven't read. Which book are you referring to?

[icy thistle]

don't have the reference atm, it's just how it stayed in my mind after all the lore reading a while ago, i have to look all the sources up again to see if maybe i'm misremembering

[honest rain]

Might be! As I said, it seems to be intentionally vague in English, left up to interpretation. To my reading, it seems like trans character, but it may as well be disguise (tho, as mentioned above, all other disguise/crossdressing stories are written differently, so we can deduce that the charscter doesn’t fall into the archetype)

[cobalt sorrel]

I was playing the scroll/fish quest and as I completed the quest there was this pop-up "World Info Update" what does it mean?

[honest rain]

You can go into journal, top left there's "world" button. Information about some fractions and characters is recorded there. Probably you've unlocked some lore bit

[mystic frost]

I need help soo.. what is the best weapon beginner could use

[crimson birch]

#🧐pve-build-discussion #⚔️pvp-build-discussion this is lore chat

[cobalt sorrel]

Ahh thanks for the clarification. 👍

[glossy cloak]

👌

[wise karma]

@fervent flare

[hard ingot]

Thank you!

[vague bane]

Is the imperial palace map in Chang an??

[lofty hinge]

Kaifeng. You know that huge area in the middle we couldn't enter? It's that.

[slender mantle]

Hello egirls😈

[vague bane]

No idea what huge map

[lofty hinge]

This is lore chat, JoJo. Try #💬off-topic

[lofty hinge]

In Kaifeng city there's a big area your character would be turned away from.

[slender mantle]

I have lore

[vague obsidian]

Boy the end of Qinchuan was honestly peak

I ended up doing the sunken city quest and that spiraled into like 2 hours of cutscenes, boss fights, revelations

[lofty hinge]

Right? It's really good. Cinematic in the best way.

[median plume]

Guys,2 days

Before the update.well almost one id say

I really hope its going to be more action like,i loved the hexi story personally even if there wasnt a lot of fighting,cuz i like all story telling types(especially the two girls one)but even i need something more...battle themed,hopefully this Is the right update

[lofty hinge]

We're guaranteed slapfights.

Seems like we're getting multiple world bosses(?) too. I'm curious what the story entails since I don't read ahead.

[honest rain]

As YM is going back to real-world and the action, it is bound to go back to previous chapters' pace. Hexi was more of a detour, other chapters should be much more "hands on"

[wraith sigil]

Question how are we gonna get in the palace, girl melon should have no issues but guy melon... what if they require... purification?

[fleet axle]

I can't share the link directly, but I can share the YT channel name Goose Girl : Video is The BIGGEST Secret in Where Winds Meet: What are you? I watched and was amazed at how much the DEVS have put into this game for players to explore, understand, and gain abilities from like animal speech?!? I'm not that far into the game myself, but watch at your own discretion, it has spoilers - I just wanted to know...cuz I am nosey and it also shares Chinese culture, beliefs, and cool stuff. I am not affiliated with this Creator, I just wanted to share how awesome of a story they put together with others. TY. (I had to delete my previous post because I added the link and was censored, you will have to search on your own. It is worth the watch/listen. And available in multiple languages.

[wraith sigil]

oh yeah i love her, there's a bunch of other WWM Lore tubers but they are mostly in Chinese.

Goose girl (formerly wwm girl) is by far the best english one

[fleet axle]

She made the videos available in multiple languages now. I loved the story.

[wraith sigil]

I'm chinese and i had to do home research on 5/10 era

idk about now but back when I was in school they don't talk much about 5/10 but apparently in higher education it is a big thing

it's like War of the Roses CN ver as far as college courses go, a lot of name a lot of stuff, very very messy time gotta learn it all in like 2 weeks xD

[fleet axle]

I'm American & Buddhist - the "understanding each others vibration" definition for friends is cool, many cultures have terms in similar means.

She needs more followers.

[honest rain]

YM isn't going in as a worker, so probably no problem? Especially if the plot reasoning is same as in cn, that YM's invitation is a whim of the prince. I doubt anyone is touching any piece of prince's personal guest

[wraith sigil]

ah ok, i thought we gonna have to like sneak in or something

[honest rain]

Iirc we get a "go ahead" kind of invitation from Zhao Er later on, but it is always possible that devs plan to rewrite the part for missing BJS chapter

[sharp lily]

From Reddit :

"For in this world, the hearts of two women can only draw infinitely close, stopping right before they touch.

Infinitely apart."

这世上，两个女人的心，只能能无限接近，然后停在一尺的亲密距离。

最遥远的距离。

[wraith sigil]

i can't imagine them wanting to alter it that much

[silver birch]

can someone summerize the political infrastructure going on in quinchuan ?

the jump from liangzhou to quinchuan kinda confused me, making it hard to follow with the main things happening (i m at sunken city lake)

[lean magnet]

Everyone here love her, basically vaati for wwm

[vague shoal]

Tang has fallen in qinchuan’s timeline, an usurper named zhu wen is after the golden peach

Longwu army is his goons iirc

[iron canyon]

kinda ||basically there are rumours about a "theif" is entering the palace due to the private treasury (which has a lot of rumours as well), while YM somehow picked up an official stamp & got to know part of what happened obviously YM is going to be chivalrous as normal and wanted to help, so we faked ourselves as imperial guards but ended up getting captured into prison. Zhao Er who came to investigate didn't expect our arrival but in the end he gave us access since the zhao brothers trusted YM||

[iron canyon]

#📖lore-chat message i think you're referring to this one

[mystic frost]

Which one I pick drunken Precision or Rhetoric Edge

[lofty hinge]

#🌱beginner-questions

[celest flume]

Not the place to ask
#💬martial-pavilion

[lean magnet]

Goddamit I keep forgetting you can’t send link here

[iron canyon]

you can put a space in between the link

[iron canyon]

yeah, usually you just need to put one in around https:// and the rest will be fine

[lean magnet]

Ah okay thx!

[unreal rock]

did the mc actually fight the god of avarice during kaifeng final boss fight or was it just all in her/hishead