#Yes Fox

2394 messages · Page 3 of 3 (latest)

woeful solar
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the vain shrouds actually do work in vanilla just fine

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as long as the host has code to grow them (all clients still run the weed generation code, just with 0 "days grown")

wispy wharf
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Just curious does anyone have some good config suggestions for the fox so the weeds don't completely take over half the moon and surround the entire ship lol. I swear I had my configs set perfect for the fox in the past but after deleting my entire configs for all mods I can not remember what I had them at before. I'm not looking for specific moon configs, just overall. My players got sick of the consistent weed take over lol. Me personally I love the fox, but would like to keep him a little bit away from the ship. I may say screw it and tell them suck it up and deal with it lmfao.

woeful solar
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weed growth is exponential (day 1 can have up to 2 weeds max, day 2 can have up to 6 weeds max, day 3 can have up to 21 weeds max)

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etc.

woeful solar
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i totally spaced out in the middle of my explanation and forgot to folow up

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anyways

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i would recommend against setting it too low

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because you might get 8 weeds growing between days or you might get 2

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it's extremely swing-y with RNG

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but you could maybe start with a value of like 5 or 6 and see if that's too little

woeful solar
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also you can increase the distance the weeds start growing from ship

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iirc it goes as high as 70 (the furthest possible distance on experimentation)

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if you set it too high the fox isnt really going to push up to the ship

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but if you're getting too many weeds at the ship even with lower max iterations

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you could increase it a bit (default is 40, maybe try 50 next)

wispy wharf
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Thanks @woeful solar I'll try the 50 first and leave the rest alone. TBH its not hard for us to kill the fox late game lol. But yeah I remember now I did increase it to the make before and yeah he would spawn way to far away and we never saw him push the ship cause of it. I just wanted to try and make some of my players happy. They yell at me every time i re-add him

placid narwhal
placid narwhal
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Idk if it's possible, but I think this should be stuck at 4 players, like 4 or more players should have no difference.
Because the fox won't retreat with 6 players if your lobby has 8 players.

opal belfry
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I mean it does work as a very funny auto balance

placid narwhal
blissful gorge
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I have a minimum of 50 units of how close vain shrouds can spawn near the ship

placid narwhal
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Maybe its only the first one

opal belfry
fresh torrent
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ok so im still getting that issue where the foxes don't spawn

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i think

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i beefed up the spawn rates but they still haven't appeared after like

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day 3-ish?

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i'd assume they would start showing up by now

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and the consol is just spamming
[Info : Unity Log] Fox A
[Info : Unity Log] Fox J
[Info : Unity Log] Fox spotted meter: 0

woeful solar
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the fact that those lines are being printed means the fox has already spawned

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those are debug lines from the fox's AI

fresh torrent
woeful solar
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can you load the save file with something like imperium and teleport to the fox

fresh torrent
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ok nvm it's working

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they were just spawning far away from the ship

woeful solar
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well that is intended to happen

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because the fox is problematically oppressive when its nest is directly on top of the ship

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so the game forces it to start growing at a considerable distance away

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there are no safeguards preventing it from eventually creeping up to the ship but it takes "at least several days" for it to reach that point

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though it will still happen on occasion with the default value of 40

fresh torrent
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alright

fresh torrent
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is there any good suggestions on what i should set the values to?

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preferably one where the veins aren't horribly invasive but don't take forever to spawn in

wraith lava
fresh torrent
wraith lava
fresh torrent
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What about the other spawning related stuff?

wraith lava
# fresh torrent What about the other spawning related stuff?

i might have some quite unusual settings so take this with a grain of salt... but this has served pretty well for us:

  • weed spawn chance (current moon) = 22
  • weed growth chance (current moon) = 75
  • weed spawn chance (other moons) = 5
  • weed growth chance (other moons) = 12
  • maximum iterations = 12
  • minimum distance = 50
  • fox spawn chance = 20
  • minimum weeds required for fox spawning = 5 (low!)

in general, quite aggressive spawning of the fox, but significant limits on how out of control the weeds can get. i also have per-moon settings for most of my moons to add some flavour. it's not perfect but i adjust it every now and again based on how our sessions go

to help counter the aggressive spawning I also have these:

  • KidnapperFoxSettings to disable 'drop all items when grabbed'
  • WeedKillerAdjuster to adjust vain shroud kill rate and weed killer base fuel tank size to x2
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i have my own mod FoxQuirks as well but ive neglected to work on it due to other projects so it doesnt do much currently perceive

fresh torrent
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The one where it prevents the fox from going into the ship?

wraith lava
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yeah. i've been sitting on the planned per-moon vain shroud colour settings for it, it's already done so i should just release it tbh. then at least calling it 'Quirks' plural would be accurate rather than 1 quirk lol

wraith lava
stiff vale
woeful solar
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not that i have issues if you choose to disable it but it is at least not black-and-white

stiff vale
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I guess that’s true, but it’s never gone well for me lol

opal belfry
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Imo it shouldnt make you drop items in solo but should in multiplayer, as it gives your teammates a chance to save you (Alongside the fact you can still grab the shovel)

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just means that solo is less punishing

woeful solar
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in my experience it kinda just requires anticipation

opal belfry
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i do hope zeekerss does more balancing for the number of teammates you have

woeful solar
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if you let it pull you away it's basically impossible to recover distance

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but you can hold yourself in place as long as you resist by sprinting (if you have stamina)

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if it helps you can drop your shovel early and move away from the fox so when you start sliding away you meet your shovel halfway

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anyways tldr i dont think theres any shame in disabling it if you dont like it but i think theres enough counterplay that it's not really a "design flaw" with vanilla

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even in solo

topaz thicket
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I think the big thing is that if the Fox catches you off guard it is kinda a death sentence

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The winds to grab your shovel is not super big, assuming you even have a shovel

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I am fine with Fox being super powerful though, the bigger issue with it always was that the Shrouds spawn way too fast

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You spend a quarter of the day just spaying Shrouds with Weedkiller, only for 20 and an 8am Fox to show up the next day

wraith lava
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yeah I dont think it's a design flaw either, it's a little bit like dealing with solo snare fleas where you have to not panic and regrab the shovel, except you have time to prepare here. I would keep it on if it were just me but some of my friends aren't good at games in general and I know they would complain at me SCWangery
we lean toward the more casual 'you die when you die' style of play. then there's just me who has played way too much and welcomes more challenging techniques and interactions, but i'd rather my group be happy for now and maybe get to that stage later

topaz thicket
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I do personally like you not dropping your items when grabbed, I think the Fox is still quite powerful without it

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But I do not feel super strongly on it

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For good players it definitely is needed to keep some of the challenge like you said

opal belfry
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Is there a way to make the fox more aggressive? I've noticed I havent seen it leave its nest at all recently even when its shrouds are near the ship

placid narwhal
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which moons do you play most?

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most modded moons without mold attraction points the fox AI won't work and it will camp his nest.

woeful solar
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i've seen the fox work just fine on rend and dine which are missing a moldattractionpoint in vanilla

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so it's weird to me that it consistently causes issues with modded moons

placid narwhal
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At least last time i played/tested them

blissful gorge
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@chrome sable Sober Ship also just doesn't work btw lol

woeful solar
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sobership never worked because it tried to delete vain shrouds (a non-networked object) only as the host

blissful gorge
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I

woeful solar
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anyways yes fox still has 0 protections for vain shrouds spawning next to the ship, it just prevents growth from starting next to the ship

blissful gorge
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think y'all's config just does not work

woeful solar
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if you are playing rebalanced moons in this screenshot then maybe dopadream's implementation for deleting weeds next to the ship does not work in v73

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but if this is vanilla offense then this is not necessarily bugged behavior

blissful gorge
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Yeah, but if it doesn't work, then the blame would be on you two, since they are absurdly close to the ship, despite the vain shrouds not nearing cornfield territory yet

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If the population was dense, it'd make more sense

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but it isn't

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And again, there is no catalyst for this within a 50 unit distance

woeful solar
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can you send your log

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i forget how much debugging i left in the version of yesfox 1a3 released

blissful gorge
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If the vain shrouds are still there, they sometimes disappear/relocate for no reason

woeful solar
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but i have made so many adjustments to the weed growth algorithm that i am like 99.99999% confident they never start growth next to the ship anymore

blissful gorge
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They're gone bruh

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The fuck

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Same save file. As if they were never there

Screenshot_1393.png
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I can check around the map if they're just somewhere else rq

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Found them. Hmm...
Could it be an error with Sober Ship instead? Why else would they be all grouped together specifically at the ship, where that config option is supposed to delete them?

Screenshot_1394.png
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They're 50 units away now, as they're supposed to be

woeful solar
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couple things could have happened here

  1. if this was your first day visiting offense after weeds start growing, you'd have to go into orbit to save their starting point. savescumming immediately will reroll the starting point
  2. if you load a save file without yes fox, then none of my changes to the spawn algorithm apply (but weeds can still generate if they were already grown on your save file)
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anyways am i misunderstanding something here

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did dopadream name her config setting "sober ship" because i thought you were talking about this mod which has always been broken

Thunderstore
SoberShip v1.3.0

Bring back the Vain Shrouds (and fox) and stop them from spawning near the ship

blissful gorge
blissful gorge
woeful solar
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okay i see

blissful gorge
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Rebalanced Moon's config option of the same name

woeful solar
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well

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im not sure what dopadream's mod does exactly

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but im under the impression it does what sobership was supposed to do

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after the moon finishes loading (and all the weeds have already generated), it deletes any that are too close to the ship

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the chain of command is something like this:

  1. yes fox increases weed growth stages for all moons
  2. vanilla starts the level and sees that the current moon has weed growth stages
  3. yes fox performs a bunch of checks to determine the start position for the weeds
  • must be greater than a certain distance away from the ship
  • must be within a certain distance of the ground, and within a certain distance of the navmesh (so weeds don't instantly fail to generate)
  • must be able to grow enough weeds that the fox will spawn, at least, once the weeds are at maximum iterations
  • if the save file already has a position set, it still verifies that the 3 above conditions are met. if they're not, the saved position gets discarded and it forces the position to be re-randomized, following all of the rules above (so even old save files wouldn't present issues with positioning)
  1. vanilla loads the moon, and spawns all the weed objects
  2. rebalanced moons searches for weed objects next to the ship and destroys them
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yes fox is unable to prevent weeds from existing next to the ship and has never intended to tackle that problem

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the only thing it controls is where the weeds start

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if the weeds are starting next to the ship, then i need to see a log to verify if yes fox is running into an error, because under no circumstances should that ever be possible

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if the weeds are growing next to the ship, that is intended behavior, unless you are using dopadream's config setting (in which case i guess you'd need to ask her)

woeful solar
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so if you load an old save file where weeds fail to generate because of distance-to-navmesh, or the fox fails to spawn because weeds can't grow, then it wouldn't do any work to prevent that

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but regardless, it does prevent the start position from being used if it's too close to the ship

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so in that case (what is being reported here) it still should re-calculate spawn point

chrome sable
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@woeful solar it worked before

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im assuming something just broke with the plethora of yesfox updates since then

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idk

placid narwhal
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The thing about all players, or all players minus one looking, could YesFox have an option to limit to 4 players? Like 4-32, looking at the fox will be the same thing (3 players will be the same as a lobby with 4 players). In a lobby with 6 players, the fox will be aggressive with 4, and it's strange.

woeful solar
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the fox's ai can only target 1 specific player every time a specific part of its code runs and it always checks in order of player slots

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so like, if it fails to target player 1, it goes through the motions trying to target player 2, then 3, then 4, on the next 3 checks

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even if the player slots are empty they dont get skipped

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so the fox has 8x the delay for attempting to retarget a specific player if you use morecompany's default lobby size of 32

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compared to vanilla

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i never got around to fixing that or pitching the code to 1a3 for release

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but this is something i could try my hand at implementing at the same time

blissful gorge
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@woeful solar Reencountered the issue

Screenshot_1396.png
woeful solar
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@blissful gorge sorry it has taken me a while to get to this

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according to your log, weeds are starting over 100 units away from the ship:
outsideAINodes[23] is candidate (ship dist: 113.7229 > 50)

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Mold growth: Selected outsideAINodes[23]: coords (65.39, -1.47, -110.33), dist 113.7229

image.png
topaz thicket
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Average weed generation

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Starts a ways away but just immediately beelines for the ship

woeful solar
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i have had my hands completely and utterly full up until now, and i might not have much time to work on mods tomorrow since i have other plans, but i hope to address this (+ another player count bug that's been bothering me) very soon

woeful solar
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ok i have already fixed the fox's confidence in 5+ lobbies

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now even with 50 players it will still retreat when 3 are watching it

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it requires a little creative liberty to determine "what zeekerss would have done" with the fox in a capacity larger than 4 players

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but personally i think the fox being cowardly is a big part of its identity and it probably wouldnt stand up against 4 employees

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i need to run some errands so itll be a couple hours before i can get to that second fix

woeful solar
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so if AIIntervalTime is 0.2 (as it is for most monsters), it takes 0.8s for it to cycle through all 4 player slots and determine if anybody is targetable

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if you play with morecompany enabled you might have up to 50 player slots meaning there is an entire 10 second delay between checks on individual players

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so im gonna patch it to skip empty slots after 4

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larger lobbies will still have an increased processing delay just because that's how the fox works, but you will get better results if your lobby size is larger than the player count you usually play with (if you play with 8 players, 1.6 delay is still better than 2.4 delay from using morecompany's default of 12 slots)

placid narwhal
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Nice

viral linden
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Really nice to see that this is being extended this well ^-^

woeful solar
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i've finished up everything i wanted to include in the next patch, so hopefully 1a3 will get the chance to submit that "sometime soon"

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and thus the kidnapper fox returns to hibernation

woeful solar
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for what that's worth

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i didnt realize zeekerss was planning to prep-for-release until this morning

topaz thicket
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What does “prep-for-release” mean? Is the update nearly finished?

woeful solar
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earlier this month he told the patrons he was "originally planning to release in march" but felt like he still wanted to spend time adding new creatures and wasn't sure whether he'd delay the update to make it larger

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this morning he tweeted that he's officially decided he will start getting it ready for release ASAP

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it seems like he only just wrote bestiary entries this morning

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i imagine there's a lot of last minute polish and cleanup, probably he wants to test with his friends, maybe there will be a public beta, etc. im not super sure

quick flax
woeful solar
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but at this point v80 could release "any minute now"

topaz thicket
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I’m super pumped for this update

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We were saying at the start of the year Zeekerss ought to do a bugfix + qol update but probably would not, yet here we are

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Bro knows what his game needs

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Just a bit worried on how janky the new monsters will be (based on past updates it is unfortunately not a matter of if but how much)

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If he sticks the landing though this could be better than v50, which is super hype

kind parrot
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Is this needed still

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Cuz of the new update coming

quick flax
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Probably not if you just want the Fox

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I imagine the ideal outcome here is this mod just updates to have the weed customization and per moon stuff

woeful solar
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this mod is gonna be super extremely broken in v80

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im not sure what all zeekerss changed exactly but i promise you it wont work

woeful solar
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i assume some of the bugs i fixed are still there in vanilla

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although like, the weed spawn point algorithm i wrote seems not necessary now since zeekerss changed a bunch of shit about how they spawn anyway

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all of the customizable rate stuff would require a transpiler or prefix cancel now since we're not adding code for it, we'd have to replace vanilla's code

quick flax
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fair

topaz thicket
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Yeah this will probably be more of a Weed spawning customizer mod going forward

somber turret
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well the main point of this mod was to re-add the fox

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there's KidnapperFoxSettings which added settings for stuff but idk if zehs is planning on updating that again

topaz thicket
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How robust is that mod though? Could it serve as a replacement for this one?

stiff vale
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I wouldn't mind if the settings end up in KidnapperFoxSettings, but I do suspect I'd like them to stay somewhere

woeful solar
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well i think the idea is these settings existed in yesfox because yesfox had to completely re-implement the behavior of the weeds

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to make the fox spawn again

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and since we were adding the code that does weed growth, we had direct control over the numbers, and so it made sense to provide a configuration file - opposed to other mods trying to patch yesfox's patches and functions

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you dont need yesfox in v80 anymore - the kidnapper fox is just a feature

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also all the number that exist in yesfox are totally useless now because he overhauled all of the weed growth/spawn chances to work differently

topaz thicket
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I don’t really care what mod ends up doing it so long as some mod does

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Be it KF Settings or this one getting reformatted

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Unfortunately I cannot trust the big Z to have gotten the vanilla behavior totally right yet

woeful solar
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i totally understand and support the idea that somebody makes a configurable kidnapper/shroud mod but im not sure this is really yesfox's wheelhouse anymore

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and the config format would need to be totally reworked

topaz thicket
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Ye

woeful solar
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and someone would have transpile settings into the vanilla functions, opposed to what is being done right now (since the code exists in vanlla again)

stiff vale
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I put a message in #1259555452509884517 message to ask. I'm curious though, would this mod just be deprecated/gutted? Currently the KidnapperFoxSettings depends on it so I'm just kind of curious how that'll be handled.

woeful solar
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if KFS gets updated it would probably just remove this mod as a dependency

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just being honest i don't think there's any reason not to just deprecate yesfox at this point

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i think it makes sense adding customizable shroud/kidnapper stuff to another mod

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if someone wants to take up that mantle

woeful solar
stiff vale
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I def believe you. I can't be asked to make it right now, but picture that meme where the guy at the podium's asking a question and everyone has puts their hand up. Then the following question they put them down. "Who wants customizable shroud/fox stuff?" "Who wants to make the mod for customizable shroud/fox stuff?"

chrome sable
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thanks for all your support for this @woeful solar @somber turret

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really appreciated this mod when it was needed

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especially buttery's grueling fights with shroud generation

woeful solar
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lol well

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it was fun to be the fox wizard for a while

opal belfry
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fox is no longer a yes or no question stare

jolly socket
topaz thicket
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Likely, but I bet the Fox will be better received now. History has a habit of softening opinions, plus Zeekerss seems to be more on top of his coding game

topaz thicket
somber turret
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just released v1.1.7 which adds the last few PRs @woeful solar submitted (for anyone still playing on v73) 🙂

woeful solar
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lol

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it's kinda funny because the entire reason i needed you to do that was to fix SCF making the fox spawn at 9 AM

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and then v80 introduced (as a balance change) "the fox can't spawn until 9 AM"

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i will probably pull some of the stuff i contributed to yesfox into BF for v80+ if you don't mind... like VehicleController caching for BushWolfEnemy and the player count patches

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since those still benefit v80 players technically even if YesFox is kind of a bunch of other stuff they won't neeed

somber turret
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feel free

topaz thicket
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You have done us a service 1A3 and Buttery, this mod shall be looked back upon fondly

somber turret
woeful solar
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zeekerss changed a bunch of things about how vain shrouds start growing

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but it looks like he didn't fix weeds starting their growth from somewhere out of bounds

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and failing immediately

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so i suppose i will eventually have more work on my hands

chrome sable
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@woeful solar did he make it so they cant grow off terrain

woeful solar
chrome sable
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homer dance gif

woeful solar
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so they no longer grow on Embrion (Rock) or Rend/Dine/Titan (Snow)

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but he also didn't disable the flag which allows them to grow on those moons

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for some reason

chrome sable
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that means i can kill my stupid mold blocker code

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lol

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it was funny though that i did that dont lie

rustic coyote
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small question about foxes since i'm not sure where else to ask, how exactly does the anti-savescum work?

woeful solar
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any time the game fails to save (usually because you quit outside of orbit)

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it adds to a savescum counter for the moon you are parked at

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once you reach the requirement for the penalty, it instantly grows vain shrouds 5 times (if they don't exist) or just once (if they are already there)

rustic coyote
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5 times? my goodness

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what's the requirement?

woeful solar
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3 times

rustic coyote
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is the counter permanent on a save file?

woeful solar
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the penalty applies every time you quit afterwards

woeful solar
stiff vale
stiff vale
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It doesn’t reset?

rustic coyote
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oh yeah does it reset when getting fired?

woeful solar
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it's permanent on the save slot

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you need to make a fresh save to release yourself of the penalty

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or just always quit in orbit

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otherwise

stiff vale
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Even closing the game doesn’t do it? Wow

topaz thicket
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Naughty naughty

stiff vale
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I don’t even save scum that often, but over the course of playing a save solo for a long time I suspect hitting the limit will happen really quick

worn bobcat
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hum hum, ||for v80's official release, since this mod will be obsolete (in a way) can it just turn into a mod that allows you to change the vain shrouds' material to the classic one?||

chrome sable
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umm no that should be a different thing i think

woeful solar
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  1. it should definitely be a different thing
  2. it's not as simple as "just adding back the old shrouds" because they now use the new foliage system he designed for v80
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they use a different shader (which we dont have the source files for) and don't even use the standard gameobject/meshfilter/meshrenderer setup they used to

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i assume one of the reasons they were changed is at least partly rooted in limitation

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i would love old shrouds but i dont think im personally willing to put in the effort to restore them lol

worn bobcat
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that's all i was merely suggestion tbh, not a whole "swamp the entire prefab"

woeful solar
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well the old texture goes to a differently shaped mesh

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i still think it would look wrong

worn bobcat
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well did you try it?

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(by that i mean just making a default material with its old textures and pasting it on the new vain shroud mesh)

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ok nvm looks a bit urm

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bad

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comparison
||1 = new, 2 = old with new mesh, 3 = old with old mesh||

SPOILER_image.png SPOILER_image.png SPOILER_image.png
woeful solar
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yes

worn bobcat
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||bonus, new with old mesh||

SPOILER_image.png
woeful solar
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i think the old mesh was just a lot more wild and alien

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the new ones are too rigid and clean

worn bobcat
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true, but the random bits at the bottom look a bit off

worn bobcat
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in my opinion it should've had a decal like ||Cadavers' plants||

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also the new ones still use the same texture for the destroy particle btw ||i mean for the for the vain shrouds||

woeful solar
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yes

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i did notice that

opal ocean
worn bobcat
opal ocean
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Perhaps I misunderstood the next statement where she implies Zeekerss should have turned off them spawning on Embrion or the snow planets altogether.

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But also, The place they grew (near the entrance) is all Embrion (Rock), iirc, which directly counters what she said about v80's mold code.

lament hornet
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they remind me of those variants I made a while back

woeful solar
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@opal ocean when i sent that, they were only allowed to grow on Grass/Gravel surfaces

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as of v80 changes

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in v81 zeekerss also added Snow as a valid surface

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and added new snowy shrouds for rend/dine/titan

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but embrion is a "Rock" type surface and so vain shrouds probably still fail to spawn there even after they begin growing

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in the current version

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the only moon he specifically disabled vain shroud growth for was march

opal ocean
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I meant to say in v80 vanilla, but I figured that was implied since v73 doesn't have mold.

topaz thicket
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For anyone interested, Lunar Config’s v81 update added configs to enable/disable Vain Shrouds on a moon, so we can control the Fox via that mod

woeful solar
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but in previous versions the weeds would fail to generate on rend/dine/titan/embrion and then reset to 0 growth

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now that should only happen on embrion

opal ocean
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I had successful growth on Embrion (specifically in v80).

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Which is why I was confused with your statement.

opal ocean
topaz thicket
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Probably not enough land for it to work properly, either be stuck in a far-flung corner of the map or be camping a choke point

opal ocean
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Right next to the entrance, close to where the rock ramp ends.

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There should be nothing but rock there.

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I don't know enough to dig more.

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If rock is indeed off, it did something weird on my end.

lament hornet
woeful solar
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this is just the impression i got when i was looking into it

opal ocean
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I'll chime in if I see it on a fresh save again (now that v81 is out). I usually avoid Embrion though.

lilac finch
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@woeful solar @somber turret would y'all consider having this mod restore some of the Fox's behavior a bit with settings for v80+? The fox is back and I'm very happy but he's rather different, for example he almost never leaves the Shrouds now. I miss him leaving to go stalk the player, it gave a reason to pay attention, he just never returned to the Shrouds after stalking like he was originally supposed to according to the original description.

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I miss stuff like this where he was being sneaky and evil, hehe.

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I don't think he should stalk as hard as the Feiopars do, and he should still head back to the Shrouds after a bit, but I do miss him deciding to leave the Shrouds and say hi LITERALLY EVER, lol.

woeful solar
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i think 1a3 just plans to keep yesfox around in its current state for v73 players but he could correct me

peak narwhal
woeful solar
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the fox is way more cowardly in general

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on top of v73's behavior already being pretty cowardly

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now as of v80+ vain shrouds are placed randomly on the map and can wind up way away from the ship

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and the nest range grows slower than it previously did, so the fox is generally a lot more likely to be out of the way and unwilling to antagonize players

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i think the morecompany bug just means it has trouble targeting near its nest except the first 4 player slots

peak narwhal
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Ah

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I am just glad he brought it back tbh even if the fox is more ambient now lol, I kinda hated having to be forced to kill the fox so much before

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The death sound it has was always so sad to hear lol

opal ocean
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I've had vain shrouds inside of the ship just yesterday... But it's much more manageable if the fox is cowardly to retake ground. I'm guessing the shroud spawn locations aren't as limited as they were in the YesFox version?

woeful solar
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i still haven't had the time to look into every change he made but shrouds growing "into the ship" has always been an issue, even with yesfox

lilac finch
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And Zeekerss patch logs made it clear that this is the intended behavior tbh

woeful solar
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yes

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vain shroud growth is clientside and he has never implemented any sort of barrier for shrouds to grow within a certain distance of the ship

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they've just always been intended to start a distance from the ship

lilac finch
woeful solar
lilac finch
woeful solar
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my only problem is i just dont like it when the weeds clip into the ship because it's really ugly

lilac finch
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Honestly valid, more of a visual issue than a gameplay one

woeful solar
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anyways as of v80 i feel like you should on average encounter less issues with weeds growing into the ship

lilac finch
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Mhm, I have only encountered it once due to a weirdly aggressive Vow infestation

woeful solar
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in v55-v73, vain shrouds were weighted to choose starting points closer to the ship (as long as they were a certain distance away)

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and yesfox keeps this behavior (in later updates after i rewrote the weed starting algorithm)

peak narwhal
woeful solar
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what's happening in v80 is more similar to what earlier versions of yesfox did (with my more naive approach to randomization)

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basically every AI node on the map is fair game if

  • it's a safe distance away from the ship
  • a valid surface (grass/snow/gravel) is underneath it
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so you will see the fox nesting in random corners of the map a lot more frequently

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rather than usually picking the same couple of spots close to the ship

lilac finch
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okay hear me out, what if you just do a client side render thingy where it flattens the shroud if the ship lands on it

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shroud still there, just less uggo

woeful solar
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shrug

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anyways i've already shared my thoughts on the entire fox thing before

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but im honestly just glad we got it back at all

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having more outdoor threat variety is nice and the kidnapper fox is definitely not harmless

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it does still work as an area denial enemy and when it sets up shop in a bad position it can change your routing or strategy

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but i am a little disappointed he decided to nerf the fox even more

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because i played so many games with yesfox and vanilla's default settings and the impression i always got from that was "the fox is being too cowardly"

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i get that he was probably concerned the fox would be overtuned and gamebreaking again like it was in v56

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but with all the bugs being fixed the kidnapper fox was genuinely completely fine as it was

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and i would've really rather seen it get buffed than nerfed even further

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i haven't seen the kidnapper fox actually steal people off the ship a single time since it was added back

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which was already a semi-rare occurrence with v73 yesfox

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and that's really sad

opal ocean
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I've had times where it refused to stop attacking (v73), but honestly, I think it getting aggressive all of a sudden was a nice change of pace.

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It doesn't get on the ship, but it will stalk the whole deck if the mold spawns under it.

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I do like the actual kidnapping it used to do.

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Largely yeah, I agree. I like the area denial, but it feels like a bit of a disservice to the fox.

lilac finch
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yeah the stealing people off the ship is what I miss, I don't mind it doing it less for sure but I have not seen it leave the Shrouds a single time in v81+

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and I do wish staring at it actually got it to go away like it was supposed to

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but as of v81 it just sits in the shrouds and screams occasionally

opal ocean
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I guess that's just a Leiopar thing now.

lilac finch
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and don't get me wrong I love the goofy scream but can I please see my fox child a bit more

opal ocean
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Only if you kidnap it.

lilac finch
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taking it with me on the ship

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time to go buddy

opal ocean
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:3

lilac finch
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Kidnapper Fox? More like Kidnappee Fox

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But as the original person who requested the YesFox mod, and someone who genuinely quit Lethal for a hot minute after Zeekerss removed it, and came back to v81 the moment I was told the fox was back without knowing anything else about the update, I declare myself #1 fox lover

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@peak narwhal can attest as to how much I talked about the fox after they were removed