Sorry I don't follow, are you disputing that Blizz is widening the nets of MMR?
#pvp
finite prawn
tropic schooner
im disbuting that this would be relevant in the picture we saw
no clue if thats true
but a 70 mmr difference is not paritcularly high
from highest to lowest
clear pulsar
It just looks like you won placement games in a good mmr number and went on a good positive, so your mmr shot up higher than it would in other brackets, blitz is certainly more inflated
But your mmr vs the average mmr of the lobby doesnt indicate that there is a wide range of players in this one game
tropic schooner
the lock was even in their first game
finite prawn
pulling from a wide range doesn't mean a literal even distribution though
it just means the available pool is wider - could have 19 ppl at 2700 and one person at 1400, still a wide pool
finite prawn
I literally posted my own pic of it
clear pulsar
Your mmr was not 1400
tropic schooner
no you didnt
tropic schooner
I literally posted my own pic of it
in your picture you dont even see the rating
finite prawn
But what you want to see is not possible - it would be the model that builds out MMR behind the scenes
finite prawn
right, you can see the MMR variance vs the rating variance
but what you can't see is why MMR is swinging higher, that's blind and up to Blizz to adjust
clear pulsar
Blound*
velvet quest
are u just forcing cr into this conversation to try to pretend the system is more mysterious and complicated than it is
tropic schooner
but what you can't see is why MMR is swinging higher, that's blind and up to Bli...
but thats also not relevant to matchmaking
tropic schooner
right, you can see the MMR variance vs the rating variance
also why variance? you see the mmr and the cr.
clear pulsar
It also has nothing t o do with the argument that the matchmaking system is making matches with wider ranges of MMRs
finite prawn
are MMR gains standardized and available? I actually have no idea
clear pulsar
High volatility in your personal mmr when you're starting out is common and present in every ranked multiplayer game too
But the cr gain being capped and not following 1-to-1 serves a purpose of not giving out every reward within 3 games to someone that may have got lucky, for instance
tropic schooner
are MMR gains standardized and available? I actually have no idea
how would it work if they wouldnt be standardized?
or being unlucky
and being punished too much
also probably so they can inflate easier
so people feel more of a progession
clear pulsar
I kinda got lost in the sauce with what the point of this conversation was
finite prawn
I have no idea that's why I am asking - if it's open and standardized there's nothing to debate lol
it no one knows, it's just up to interpretation and assumption
someone says "yeah man here is link to MMR math" then sweet, I'm here to learn
clear pulsar
It's pretty straight forward actually
If you win your mmr shifts more favorably than if you lose
Bless
The discussion was a bit all over the place
tropic schooner
someone says "yeah man here is link to MMR math" then sweet, I'm here to learn
but how is mmr gain/loss relevant here?w
velvet quest
theres no math to it the game just rng rolls and decides how much mmr u gain or lose
tropic schooner
If you win your mmr shifts more favorably than if you lose
doubt anyone reall knows exactly how it works outside of this
you gain more mmr if you win vs better ppl and less if its s worse
clear pulsar
theres no math to it the game just rng rolls and decides how much mmr u gain or ...
This is why I lose every gambling sesh in raid
It's so the rng evens out when I pvp and I climb faster
velvet quest
u can fix that by just prerolling
tropic schooner
u can fix that by just prerolling
just shadowmeld the mmr
finite prawn
but how is mmr gain/loss relevant here?w
because if no one knows how MMR is actually measured, then we have no idea if the 'nets are being widened'
velvet quest
do a spam /roll session and only press queue once u roll below a 5 so u lock in the good rng for the mmr gains
tropic schooner
because if no one knows how MMR is actually measured, then we have no idea if th...
yes we do?
we SEE the mmr
finite prawn
damnit bobby
tropic schooner
the gain/loss of mmr isnt relevant to your matchmaking
its only relevant after it
finite prawn
ok, this is so far beyond as I literally only said "i think", but here goes
if you were blizz, and you wanted to increase games and decrease queues, one way you could do it quietly is to mess with the MMR gains/losses
tropic schooner
that makes no sense
finite prawn
if queues go up, then MMR increases can be tweaked to pull people a little further away up
velvet quest
why are u quoting nets being widened when ur the only person here who has used that phrase
clear pulsar
I think we have no idea what 'nets being widened' means
tropic schooner
if queues go up, then MMR increases can be tweaked to pull people a little furth...
that is litterally a feature of an elo system
without any additional input
finite prawn
because ent quoted me when I was talking to miik saying 'oh we dont know that' and since then I am just trying to find out how he is certain when in fact, none of us are since it's a blind calc
clear pulsar
Seasonal inflation (and relative inflation between different game modes) has nothing to do with what I think when I read you say widen the nets of matchmaking
velvet quest
numbers can be hidden and its still easy to roughly understand how the system works if ur willing to abandon whatever random thing ur trying to argue
finite prawn
do you think Blizz has any way to decrease queue times, just keep it simple
clear pulsar
When you say they're widening the nets of matchmaking, my interpretation is that they're allowing matches to be made with players of a wider range of MMR. 2200 mmr people with 2800 mmr people is a wider range than 2400-2500. Yes?
tropic schooner
do you think Blizz has any way to decrease queue times, just keep it simple
yes widening the net of your search
clear pulsar
This has absolutely nothing to do wtih anything else you're saying now
tropic schooner
so have you get matched more mmr different
finite prawn
but if you show matches with large MMR swings, would it not just frustrate people (I'll start looking as I play but I don't really see big swings ever on literal MMR)
so how do you widen the search
tropic schooner
sure, if its too fast/too extreme it will frustrate people
which is why long queue times is an insanly hard to solve issue
velvet quest
when u were replying to miik u were both confused by the difference between cr and mmr it seems
finite prawn
so maybe you say "ok that guy who won should be 2250 but.. queue lag at 2300 so make him... 2301" it's entirely guess-based, but it's my guess
tropic schooner
so maybe you say "ok that guy who won should be 2250 but.. queue lag at 2300 so ...
what does that mean
finite prawn
if you're blizz and you're noticing longer queue times at say.. 2300.. it would incentivize you to find ways to get more people into that bracket.. either make wins worth more, make losses worth less, make more people eligable, etc
tropic schooner
im glad that you are not designing ways to reduce queue times
velvet quest
ud get more people into that bracket by pulling 2100 or 2500 players into that individual queue
tropic schooner
thats a horrible idea and i would be completly shocked if blizzard would do anything close to that
finite prawn
but you have to do something
what would you do, just let there be a dead zone in the ladder?
tropic schooner
why on earth would there be a "dead zone" in the ladder?
velvet quest
if wins at 2300 were worth more then all the 2300 players would be 2400 and then the 2300 queue times would be long again 🙂
tropic schooner
you must have fucked up your elo system for that to exist
finite prawn
if wins at 2300 were worth more then all the 2300 players would be 2400 and then...
that's just it, it's 2100-2299 that would be worth more, and 2300-2400 losses just worth less
but again, this is tinfoil hat random hypo
velvet quest
this isnt tinfoil hat thats not what tinfoil means
tropic schooner
seems like a tinfoil hat hypothesis of people which dont understand elo systems
finite prawn
enten how do you decrease queue times
tropic schooner
I dont think there is a solution in wow
velvet quest
this is u coming up with a problem thats not actually a problem and trying to solve it in a way that makes less sense than not trying to solve it
tropic schooner
or well let me rephrase
there IS a solution you could do
which is you dont give a fuck about comps
so just match any number of dps/healers/tanks
that would make queue times pretty damn short
but games also very shit
finite prawn
yeah that is terrible
tropic schooner
yes
finite prawn
run a business dude
tropic schooner
?
finite prawn
what do you actually do
velvet quest
ud fix queue times by having 10x the population of players queueing
tropic schooner
give more incentives for healers to queue
tropic schooner
ud fix queue times by having 10x the population of players queueing
a bit
finite prawn
make the ladder better, make people stay longer, pay subs longer, refer people
tropic schooner
but I dont think it would fix a lot
as a counter example you could give a game like league of legends
velvet quest
i dont think healers are the bottleneck in blitz, in shuffle yeah but in blitz i dont think they get much faster pops
tropic schooner
which, before it had more agressive auto fill
you had basically same queue times in solo q compared to shuffle
even at low ratings
20-30 mins was normal
I think only thing you could try is give healers more incentives to queue but hard to give good incentives, in the end I do not think its a "solveable" issue
and the 10-20 min queue times are to stay
finite prawn
rip then
velvet quest
if widening the nets of mmr would fix the issue u think is going on, then unrated bgs would have extremely short queue times as well
finite prawn
what
tropic schooner
if widening the nets of mmr would fix the issue u think is going on, then unrate...
well widen the search radius would reduce queue times
but would also increase frustration of getting +0
or losing 30 on a loss
clear pulsar
It would even out queue times
Idk if it would flat out reduce the average across the board
tropic schooner
sure thats fair
finite prawn
unrated would only ever reduce in queue times if you gave up on factions and just crammed first 20 in
velvet quest
im saying unrated bgs have a pretty long queue time with no mmr considerations taking place
clear pulsar
But higher rated people with longer times would see a decrease and the more populous mmrs would see a smaller individual increase I reckon
velvet quest
so if u think ur having long queues just cause of some 2300 dip in population its probably not that
finite prawn
im saying unrated bgs have a pretty long queue time with no mmr considerations t...
but that's because 75% of PVPers are Ally and 90% are DPS
tropic schooner
But higher rated people with longer times would see a decrease and the more popu...
yea agreed, it effectivly would do similar things to increasing player base
clear pulsar
I really like dota's solution for ranked tho it's not feasible in wow
tropic schooner
do they also auto fill you eventually?
when I played dota the solution was person who locked in first or yelled in chat got it 
clear pulsar
Where you have ranked with pre-selected role queue, and you have tokens that let you queue up a game as any role you want.
If you select high demand roles (lets say hard supp) then it doesnt cost a token, and if you select every role, you g ain tokens.
tropic schooner
ah interesting yea somewhat similar to league in idea
but implemented differently
clear pulsar
Funnily this also showcases how people feel about each role over time
tropic schooner
I think I prefer leagues version
clear pulsar
4 and 5 were the high demand roles at first, and 2 was always a really long queue time
Over time, 4 became a lot more popular with how they've improved quality of life for supports, 5 too but not enough to make it low demand
While 2 is not long queue times anymore cuz more people started to hate playing mid
3 goes in and out of being high demand
tropic schooner
would guess playing 3 now is a lot more acceptable compared to earlier days
where trilanes were normal
finite prawn
What about just getting rid of healers for BGB/BGs
clear pulsar
Yeah
finite prawn
DPS only, no Factions, no Healers, no Tanks
tropic schooner
that would reduce queue times
clear pulsar
It's more fun and also became more normalized to play traditionally carry or mid heroes in the offlane
tropic schooner
think I usually played the water melon
clear pulsar
clear pulsar
Oh no this is a complete non-discussion
tropic schooner
take it with a grain of salt but some context to consider
the worst part is it isnt even necessarly wrong the Ai gave way too much information to claim its straight up wrong
because blizzard absolutely has changed how mmr works
between some expansions
tropic schooner
im pretty sure I said something like I would be completly shocked if they do that
but I also arent asking AI things and expect a useful answer
but no I dont know exactly how it works, for all we know it could be a dog randomly chosing it
clear pulsar
to be fair, you're writing as if you know what they do
It's hard to write as if I know anything at this point, I cant even tell what point you were trying to discuss
It started with widening the MMR search for a match and you misreading your current rating for your MMR.
Then it turned into rating inflation even tho you kept calling it the same thing. IT went to shit here, we were all having different conversations with one another.
It's hard to discuss cuz I dont know what the topic really is, and you state things assuming certain things that I think are bogus, so I cant answer it in the same space
finite prawn
fair - it's trailing all over as people jump in and out
dude up top posted a pic about being in a high MMR room and I said that I think blizz may just be 'widening the nets' (there's that term) to reduce queue times and got pings from Ent replying
clear pulsar
It looked very standard there
finite prawn
like this - it's clearly a joke, but I think Ent may actually be german, where humor was made illegal in 1987
clear pulsar
+/- 35-40 mmr from average
tropic schooner
like this - it's clearly a joke, but I think Ent may actually be german, where h...
there is no way you made a joke
you just misunderstood mmr and cr
otherwise that joke makes 0 sense
tropic schooner
there is no way you made a joke
I should rephrase that
it was meant as a joke, but that joke coming from a misunderstanding
finite prawn
"I think I am in the wrong room, please guide me out" is me joking that I feel out of place in a 2300 lobby, I am not saying I literally should not be in there due to some issue with matchmaking
tropic schooner
sure, but you could have said that after instead of talking about some thing widening that you knew that
tropic schooner
yup that gives me reasoning to believe you misunderstanding mmr and cr
clear pulsar
#pvp message also
finite prawn
there's not enough data or context to even make that assumption - damnit you are german'ing me into another discussion
stray sigil
blitz mmr is just incredibly fucky tbf
ur placements are in 2.5 +
where as in arenas
ud be in the like
tropic schooner
there's not enough data or context to even make that assumption - damnit you are...
you are giving the context just now?
stray sigil
1700s
clear pulsar
Yeah there are 2 things, 1 is that blitz is omega inflated, 2 is that mmr is very volatile in 'placement games' and this is true in every single ranked game
stray sigil
just for whatever reason the placemetns in blitz
finite prawn
you are giving the context just now?
is it after 5 games? 500? after a win streak? loss streak? context bro
stray sigil
are high mmr
but also
2.5 mmr blitz
is not really competent players as you would think
lol
tropic schooner
is it after 5 games? 500? after a win streak? loss streak? context bro
no the context is you say 1800 in a 2800 lobby
the context is your message, not the situation where that came up in
finite prawn
I dunno dude I feel like I am speaking chinese to you
tropic schooner
tbf there COULD be the context that the person was actually 1800 mmr, but I doubt that to be the case
stray sigil
i would justy not look at mmr in blitz until u notice ur mmr = ish ur cr
it doesnt matter
finite prawn
no the context is you say 1800 in a 2800 lobby
1800 in a 2800 lobby after 5 wins makes sense, sounds about right. 1800 in a 2800 lobby after 5 losses seems stranger. That is what context is homie
fuck actually please god no dont reply I need to go to work
tropic schooner
1800 in a 2800 lobby after 5 wins makes sense, sounds about right. 1800 in a 280...
no it doesnt seem stranger
finite prawn
tropic schooner
it depends on your mmr
because your cr is fucking irrelevant
you might have started at 3.4k mmr lost 5 times and still be way too high for that 2.8 lobby
same way you started at 1500 mmr won 5 times and be too low
finite prawn
fine, let me rephrase you monster
1800 in a 2800 lobby after 5 wins makes sense, sounds about right. 1800 in a 2800 lobby after 200 losses seem stranger.
tropic schooner
depends on your wins
tropic schooner
(but also how the fuck is this relevant)
finite prawn
the context of a scenario matters just as much as the scenario itself - this is the entire point - but goddamnit man, I can't anymore
tropic schooner
yes no shit?
stray sigil
think theres also a problem with placements mmr
tropic schooner
which is why we said you dont understand it
stray sigil
or atleast something not 100% right
cuz i did 2s yday
and went 5-0 our mmr stayed 2388
the entire time
so who nose
tropic schooner
well that depends who you face
stray sigil
its placements
tropic schooner
chances are in placements you played against really bad ppl
stray sigil
thats why i mentionned it
stray sigil
sure but ud still get +1
clear fox
random patrol
good
livid wasp
resto rat
velvet quest
@stray sigil I know a guy who would not be happy seeing those stats
Can you tell me how to climb in shuffle this time around ? Tips for when you have bad teammates ? I want 2400 too shuffle I’m only 2.1 cr
stray sigil
random patrol
frost dk aka run at something hope something dies
this time it was a spriest and a feral
livid wasp
trying to lfg higher keys is just hard
you get healers who arent that good mostly
all good healers have groups
livid wasp
or maybe I just get in bad groups cause people inviting a 708 ilvl feral are more likely to invite bad people
lime light
@tropic schooner and there was my ssn in d4 xD
my shit is super bugged, positive wise - i just tanked every T4 boss
nothing can kill me even if i afk
cuz of the mana shield chaos perk
oh well
tropic schooner
lol
lime light
i see u are not playing too xD?
ah u had to do the story right
for dlc
thats good ixp but uhm not rly that fun i would say
viscid remnant
sturdy trail
What realm do you guys play on
tropic schooner
OOK OOK
tropic schooner
@lime light how do I know when items are good in d4?
grim peak
how do you play in blitz bgs as balance if there is just a big fight? do you try to dot as many as possible and strafall to get some pressure on everything or single out enemys or (i guess) just do both when you deem it good? playing it for the first time
finite prawn
dot everything constantly, keep Starfall up, if they group you can Mass Entangle, save burst for someone out of space or if there is a clear kill target
most big fight teamfights is a dmg race with a bit of seeing who overexposes first
but really just pump pump pump
healer used trink and you're close? Clone. Farther? Rootbeam. Warrior way past their healers? Root and burn, etc
your incarn goes though are ruthless, you can beam someone down in like 3-4 seconds and catch them
warm prawn
Then the second you kill someone you t-bag them in cat, travel, and bear form
finite prawn
I've been playing kultiran and I actually love punching players away from their healers far behind our lines
warr over-pushed? Punch him back to our spawn, he aint coming back
really though other than pump and keep dot pressure, it's pretty dynamic, who you should target, what you should do etc changes constantly and guessing right comes with time (imo)
lone zenith
How much haste and versa is recommended before going mastery for solo shuffle as resto?
finite prawn
is there a need for haste minimum with balance? I've just been smashing mastery as it feels like so much is instant (and 4P gives you like 8% alone)
lime light
@tropic schooner items with greater affixes
clear pulsar
is there a need for haste minimum with balance? I've just been smashing mastery ...
Loaded question
Haste affects instant spells all the same
What 4p is giving you 8% haste?
finite prawn
lemme see
head, shoulders, chest give you 3741.. that's what, like 6% actually?
im just curious if there is a solid breakpoint to bother aiming for, it's cool I'll google it
tropic schooner
breakpoints dont really exist in modern wow design
finite prawn
I'm not falling for it Hanz Gruber
clear pulsar
Oh just the items
I was thinking of 4p effect
Most boomies stack haste vers in almost every item in pvp rn
Conceptually, mastery is the best pure damage stat while haste has more value past that, mainly enabling Cyclones more, but also fitting in more Surges in a Clone/Root Beam window, that type of thing.
Any particular set amounts to aim for are just feelycrafting but like I said everybody prios haste over mastery atm
safe heart
well i think i just ruined some warriors day
i thought soleah was a big gg trinket for me and told him i wasnt gunna trade it, but i just did the QE sim and turns out its dogshit vendor trinket
livid wasp
at least in pvp your rating moves
ive spent over an hour doing a +13 and abandoning it then doing +12 and abandoning it
clear pulsar
i thought soleah was a big gg trinket for me and told him i wasnt gunna trade it...
Do you just have higher ilvl trinkets already? Soleah is the best non-raid trinket for its ilvl for almost every spec
At least almost every healer
safe heart
I have 710 signet and 710 bursting lightshard
but i simmed it and dropping lightshard for soleah was like a 1% hps increase
(maybe thats massive, but doesnt feel like it)
lightshard does like 10-20% of my damage in alot of dungeons
livid wasp
and m+ rating looks like a completely unreliable indicator of skill
random patrol
I like a min of 32-34 haste but you can go higher or lower as chicken depending on how much vers you have slash racials
livid wasp
we get a 3k rating healer priest and he can barely heal first pack
clear pulsar
You couldnt convince me to run 2 on-use trinkets like that but bless
safe heart
i just tie signet to chi ji and i press the other on cd
clear pulsar
we get a 3k rating healer priest and he can barely heal first pack
Everybody can be involved in this, I would stick with thinking of what you can control, not whether the healer was at fault or not
safe heart
zechy i cant tell you how many times im staring at defensives that never get pressed
im cocooning dks that are holding ams for next game
clear pulsar
It's also just useless to point blame like that
And like
Zechey has done some of these dungeons literally once
Do you think you're in position tto gauge whether someone died cuz healer couldn't keep up or cuz of something else @livid wasp
Such a goofy reaction
safe heart
hes kinda right zechy cuz like
im almost 2800 and
i still hit things in these dungeonswhere im like "oh uh .. thats how that works"
clear pulsar
It's kinda hard for a dungeon to brick cuz of 1 person at fault too, unless it's the tank playing with screen off
safe heart
just recently learned that youre supposed to pop those orbs on eco 2nd boss
clear pulsar
At a +12 that is
Like 1 person fucking up can get carried so hard
This overall dps for a 16 HOA that we timed
livid wasp
no
it was the first pull in dawnbreaker
he didnt dispel shit off of me even
we wiped on the second pack on the boat and the tank was like cba and abandoned
I dont usually blame healers but it was so obvious this time
clear pulsar
Whatever you say
safe heart
i threw a perfectly timeable hoa last night cuz i choked healing 2nd boss
panik peaceweaver and it all went downhill
livid wasp
wish I had a group to spam keys with
safe heart
but ancient teachings might be kindof enabling it, idk how well it works trying to like rejuv it
livid wasp
really hard to get a group as a feral druid who isnt exceptionally geared and talented
safe heart
feral is pretty good right now
and has raid buff and has brez
maybe what you should do zechy is
livid wasp
moonkin is better will always be
safe heart
try to advertise for "physical comp"
stray sigil
get a giga chad ww
most borken spec in game
@clear pulsar its even good on raid logs face will tell u so
safe heart
you could do prot war , feral, fury, ww, resto sham type shid
stray sigil
@velvet quest real?
safe heart
fuji i cant decide what to spend my 80 boost on
livid wasp
idk its hard
safe heart
i mean im gunna do the same thing but still
livid wasp
and I wish I could swap my key
random patrol
another druid
safe heart
a guardian druid
livid wasp
yeah just join someone elses key oh right im a low geared feral haha cant
winter prairie
How important are the three wrath casts for keeper of the growth? Currently I play Keeper of the growth with Fury of Elune and the standard arena build. Should I focus on Starsurge/Starfall or should I try to put the three wrath cast in my cd window? In BGs, how many times do you guys use Starfall before bursting with Starsurge? Thank u and have a nice evening.
random patrol
gen you want to use them right away then surges into more wraths
at least with standard kotg builds
winter prairie
so you mean Treants, Fury of Elune, Inca, 3x Wrath and then Surge?
random patrol
pretty much yeah
try to be empty/super low on ap before sending
so you don't overcap
velvet quest
so you mean Treants, Fury of Elune, Inca, 3x Wrath and then Surge?
You can start surging before you 3x wrath there’s nothing forcing you to press it 3 times in a row
lunar sphinx
Since the dreamburst nerf I’ve gotten more value out of dumping all AP as prio over wraths. And agree, no need to do all 3 wraths in a row. Wrath > starsurge is a lot of dmg hitting at the exact same time.
random patrol
I disagree and will argue you for 3 hours now over why that's wrong, slash s
safe heart
I play with the same couple guys but one of them was playing his shaman alt and I just said "wall this" to him, he doesn't press then after he died he's like "yeah what does wall mean"
Lmao
random patrol
I do think front loading the wraths is best get burst out of the way I get 2 mill plus wraths
you can go surge surgr wrath x 3 though
main thing is don't overcap
clear pulsar
I play with the same couple guys but one of them was playing his shaman alt and ...
Biggest flaw of pveers is they communicate with words too big
Wall is perfect comms
safe heart
Agre
clear pulsar
If you say 'personal' they might get
grand mesa
if you say wall there’s def a non 0 chance they don’t know what you’re talking about
It’s come up a lot recently for me
vestal citrus
ya bc ur playing m+
with smooth brains
in my guild u could scream help help and you get an external
huge cerebral processing
dont press spell reflect on aoe dmg someone is tracking it and u gonna get some flame bro
DID YOU HEALTHSTONE AND WALL? 
DID YOU BEAR???
no i thought i would live
vestal citrus
lake would excel in m+
tiny oar
heal me u pig
nah im a osrs main now 
tiny oar
when the rdruid goes into cat to do dps while team is at 3% hp no hots
why i fucking hate pugging m+ as anything other than healer
every other key is some fucking clown ass tauren resto druid just afk in caster blanket rejuving and doing nothing else struggling to put up 1m hps overall
vestal citrus
ya i accidentally went into competitivewow subreddit
and there was rdruid saying he couldn't heal anything
bro was playing like it was 3xpac ago
like press 2 lifebloom and a regrowth on urself and magically everything is full hp forever
vestal citrus
should genuinely just make tank
unable to die
max dps
minimal amount of effort to do excellently
random patrol
pretty much yeah
tiny oar
+2
random patrol
9th toon almost done
tardy hare
velvet quest
im on #11 are u even trying
random patrol
@velvet quest I have 14 80s
3 more in the works 2 of those will be druid number 12 and 13
velvet quest
i have 26 80s i just use them to print gold with concentration
the only class i have more than 1 pvp geared is rogue cause gear isnt interchangeable at all with the specs
lilac wren
what concentration crafts are you using on which professions ?
random patrol
most of my toons are for profs yeah
only 9 are pvp geared though cause I cant be bothered to do more this season
velvet quest
what concentration crafts are you using on which professions ?
just whatever is most gold per concentration for enchanters on that day. and then i have a bunch of tailors doing bolt cooldown crafts which isnt great profit but its more than 0 and they were set up that way season 1 so i didnt feel like swapping
night coral
Do you have a duplicate char for pvp and for pve? I am wondering if it’s beneficial to have 2 feral chars (1 pve only + 1 pvp only) instead of one doing both
livid wasp
probably yes at the start of season at least for pvp set and pve sets
night coral
yea I think it must be good for the catalyst charges use
tropic schooner
just whatever is most gold per concentration for enchanters on that day. and the...
Second best outside enchanting is prolly alchemy or JC but yea a lot more annoying to set up
livid wasp
im gonna be an alchemist
I like making pots and shit
2x flask duration good bonus too
clear pulsar
yea I think it must be good for the catalyst charges use
There is 0 conflict
You can turn any pve item into pvp scaling
If you pve you get an advantage for gearing
night coral
You mean using lacquer on my pve set?
safe heart
So in 13s/14s mistakes just like unhealable lol
I got my ass kicked in 3 13s and a 14 last night
Beam slicer dot destroyed a cocoon instantly , dunno if he had multiple stacks or not
clear pulsar
Must have been multiple
For sure
It does start to get harder to carry mistakes as the healer
safe heart
Okay well that makes it a little better
I was like no way 1 tick if that is doing 1 cocoon worth of damage lmao
safe heart
It does start to get harder to carry mistakes as the healer
I'm nervous for that lol
Especially since 10 deaths is basically a bricked key
My tank got splatted alot last night
grand mesa
Just heal bro
safe heart
I'm trying so hard
grand mesa
Play rdruid
safe heart
I have to play mistweaver
grand mesa
U accidentally heal multiversal damage for free
safe heart
I can't just switch classes cuz it's conveniant
It'd be different if I always played rdruid and it happened to be good rn
But I picked mistweaver so I can't just abandon it
safe heart
Was it fun
grand mesa
i played mw in shuffle last night
What the fuck
velvet quest
its the true sign of a ww main. find every excuse to play anything besides ww at all times @stray sigil im glad ur following in ur senpai's footsteps maybe soon u can be like pistachio
grand mesa
proving me right that healer job is for babies
wintry jackal
Prove me wrong solo shuffles are 60% healer 1v1s
stray sigil
proving me right that healer job is for babies
safe heart
I actually play mw and my record is way worse than that lol
wintry jackal
i played against bots
Are there bots in solo
stray sigil
Are there bots in solo
no thats my way of talking abotu 1500 players
viscid remnant
@clear pulsar after you flame insani hltv post this
the gap from 1 2 to 3 is crazy tho
clear pulsar
Negative kd player smh
livid wasp
I just wanna kms
random patrol
retcraft
livid wasp
dont they feel at least a bit shameful
"haha ret is so good now let me roll it"
idiots
grand mesa
🤔
white fern
I hear a lot of people in game talking trash for boomies who press starfall a lot saying the damage is irrelevant but I swear it wipes big team fights. Am I just a troll?
livid wasp
so fucking boring
why cant arena be fun
why does it have to be so aids
why cant it be simple
so much going on
livid wasp
nothing is fun
white fern
Lidl dmg on every1 = ez to heal
Yeah maybe it’s bad, but when the game ends and we wiped their teams over and over in team fight with me sitting at 900 mil dmg and second high damage in the game at 300 mil is it really bad? I mean I trust you just seems like it would still be good. I dunno.
velvet quest
the reason u did 3x more dmg than everyone else isnt because of your spender prio, its because the other team decided not to play
random patrol
your team don't like you doing dam that's on their pea brain to whine
tropic schooner
Yeah maybe it’s bad, but when the game ends and we wiped their teams over and ov...
just usually people dont die to fairly small spread dmg a lot easier to heal in most cases
pretty sure the moonkin aura thingy pvp talent is also only for starsurge
yup 6% crit for basically your whole team
safe heart
alright guys i know Q1 didnt go that well but i stg if we korean swap our pitfalls in q2 we will gg this shit ong
astral rune
why cant arena be fun
minor siren
Hey guys, for boomy pvp in bgs, what is my role? Mostly teamighter?
And in fights do I usually go for lunar eclipse and starfall spam when there are more than 3 enemies around (in 3+ battles, should I just keep spamming starfalls, or is there a limit of how many concurrent statfalls I should have active after which to switch to starsurge? And if less, go to solar eclipse ?
stray sigil
safe heart
i gave it to my shadow priest
tardy hare
Hey guys, for boomy pvp in bgs, what is my role? Mostly teamighter?
And in figh...
Dont think you press starfall much tbh
StarSurging prio targets better
vestal citrus
starfall only good when enemy healers are fkn terrible
livid wasp
shufle is tough
minor siren
starfall only good when enemy healers are fkn terrible
even in large fights like 4/5+ enemies?
grim peak
what does "aoe the flag in the middle" mean in the pandaria base bg?
livid wasp
you carry out area of effect-attacks on the area of the flag to prevent the enemy units from capturing the base in the middle of the padnaria base bg
grim peak
thank you
wintry jackal
grand mesa
I healed shuffle for the first time in forever
Fuji was watching and he got so tilted just watching the dps he started screaming at the warlock like he was playing and not me
viscid remnant
Hard labor
stray sigil
wintry jackal
Just focus on shutting down the destro
Can’t miss kicks
They only have 1 kick unless they have Rsham
So clone city on dark ascension
Savage fury or whatever skull bash PvP talent is
Line trap on healer up with maim
livid wasp
aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
wish it was so easy
it was a rsham
such an aids comp
stray sigil
my guess is ur trying too hard to clone and ur doing 0 dmg
astral rune
buff feral
tropic schooner
rdruids have yet to lose a game
stray sigil
go on
livid wasp
should probably farm legendary cloak
on my alt
idk how much dmg the effect actually is ina rena
tropic schooner
There's just too many things to nerf on it
start with 20% dmg nerf
clear pulsar
Diffuse is bonkers, should be 30% at most when they already have 7 defensives
grand mesa
I say stuff like this Fuji is immune. Face does he’s deadassing all over the place
clear pulsar
WDP knock is batshit too
clear pulsar
Clash is the most broken thing they added in TWW
stray sigil
dumb rat pig
clear pulsar
TOD should also not be usable on players
Just like lay on hands
WW is on par with ret rn
velvet quest
dh is under ww
stray sigil
clear pulsar
DH is worse for sure
livid wasp
I like how others seem to write down materials for crafts into google search field so that it's an actual suggestion
stray sigil
DH is worse for sure
livid wasp
fucking glimpse is so annoying I swear to god
stray sigil
That's 1 nerf vs WW's >3
livid wasp
fucking try to clone that shit impossible
clear pulsar
Yeah it's just pandering to fotm rerollers like fuji
grand mesa
Also they need to remove ancient of lore
clear pulsar
Also they need to remove ancient of lore
Agree
It's crazy how shit resto druid is
Worst healer in game even with the most OP pvp talent
grand mesa
Oh idc about tilting face
He tilts himself on his own just fine
I’m just saying how I truly feel
clear pulsar
Thoughts @grand mesa
clear pulsar
PURPLE AND GOLD BABYYY
grand mesa
clear pulsar
I rly should set up the whole warband screen
I just dont have a good one for plate
My pala can only wear red
grand mesa
Fuji u wanna watch more shuff
late wraith
what?
late wraith
than elliot smith?
tropic schooner
the sad elliot smith lol
elliot is sad?!
stray sigil
than elliot smith?
yes piog
late wraith
no it does not get sadder it's sad music lol
grand mesa
I need u in comms with me
clear pulsar
no it does not get sadder it's sad music lol
This is the most fuji pilled conversation you coulda had
late wraith
This is the most fuji pilled conversation you coulda had
i know i feel baited
grand mesa
Actually slayed me
late wraith
but i'm too fuckin tired to figure out how
clear pulsar
He solo baited himself from you just trying to chat
grand mesa
I wonder if I have it clipped
clear pulsar
late wraith
tropic schooner
wait while I also have no clue, didnt beavs mean the streamer you literally mentioned
stray sigil
i googled him
late wraith
i'm in hell
stray sigil
he looks like a younger beatles guy
late wraith
i'm in actual hell
tropic schooner
...
stray sigil
i cant remember
oh no thats woody allen
whos the beatles guy with the small glasses
late wraith
john lennon
and you're thinking of his wife yoko ono. not his kid? why am i doing this.
stray sigil
and you're thinking of his wife yoko ono. not his kid? why am i doing this.
i mixed up woody allen
grand mesa
Who’s Sam Elliot
safe heart
are the cloud serpents and shit from mop still availble
barren flame
Any Boomys in here looking for 3s partners? 2100 on 2 different DH in SS so far this season looking for long term DPS to push with in 3s.
random patrol
using a bandage behind a pillar as a frost dk in a 1v1 in arena against a ret
at least I beat him
of course the boomy I got stuck in that 2s with died first
chickens alway hard
vestal citrus
are the cloud serpents and shit from mop still availble
the regular ones ya
its a reputation
safe heart
I could use the green one
unborn knot
yo guys im new to druid pvp, yet again, im just wondering how do i make a macro that activates ancient of lore
and then lets me mouseover heal with the same button?
do i just do a usual mousover macro with ancient of lore
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,exists] ancient of lore; ancient of lore
like this?
tropic schooner
yo guys im new to druid pvp, yet again, im just wondering how do i make a macro ...
not familiar how that works exactly, does your ancient of lore button change?
(to a heal?)
or do you need to cast other things, like rejuv/regrowth etc
tropic schooner
so true
stray sigil
impossible to beat 1v1
safe heart
Bad
viscid remnant
I started pvping again
livid wasp
how do people play
they just play
know everything
enemy cds
know who to target
know when to go healer
know when their teammate ccs
they just know everyting
then they win and climb to 3k
tropic schooner
because they are better then you
livid wasp
how do they become better
proud tangle
being open to learn and absorb knowledge correctly
lunar sphinx
how do they become better
Watching vods took me from 2400 ele to 2700 last season. So much easier to spot your mistakes on a vod. Also 2-3x of the same class/race really helps the climb. And make sure every game you go in with a ‘what will I learn from this lobby’ mindset. Don’t go in to win, go in to learn, and the wins come naturally over time.
livid wasp
I cant learn I dont know what to do
safe heart
You just gotta watch and nit pick it apart
lunar sphinx
What spec and mmr are you?
safe heart
I'm rdruid at 200cr atm
lunar sphinx
Ok, I haven’t played feral since DF S1, but I play against them.
Good ferals:
keep dots on all targets (and snapshot them with tigers lust).
Outside of tigers you can try to clone healer or off target - your goal here is not always to land the clone but taking a kick can help your teammate cc or your healer heal.
Incarn the opener, rip stun from stealth then stealth and rip stun instantly when it ends or they trinket.
Watch DRs and only maim stun when they are not on stun dr.
Bear form is your friend - let your bleeds do their thing if your healer is cc’d a quick bear form can save survival instincts.
Check your UI as well - keep it clean. Skill Capped’s free UI is really good. Their paid UI is BiS imo.
Watch some of Whaazz’s streams. He just pushed #1 feral in a few days so has lots of fresh vods on Twitch from streams.
Focus target on healer is a good way to spot cc on enemy healer when your teammate is likely going for some pressure. When you see them in cc consider how you can extend it (bash or clone for example) or use that as an opportunity to maim the kill target so they can’t press a defensive.
livid wasp
fucking destro is so broken
ridiculous
literally unbeatable any destro comp
I mean all that stuff is basic
I know it
but its not enough
so much mroe to this game
lunar sphinx
Feral destro is pretty strong rn, I expect echo will play it at awc this week.
And feral is strong into destro as you can shut them down so much.
Make sure to play curse dispel and dispel havoc on you / your team instantly to avoid the double coils and double bolts. Only kick chaos bolt, the fears are baits.
Using vortex just before they port or gateway can waste one of their major mobility CDs and force more.
They are cloth so your bites will hurt them and force them defensive. You can clone their big wall so they don’t get the benefit of free casting and can’t get healed up.
livid wasp
I just wanna kill myself playing this shit game
grand mesa
I love when folks don’t know who zechey is and offer help in good faith
livid wasp
Feral destro is pretty strong rn, I expect echo will play it at awc this week.
...
like it sounds so easy just clone their big wall kick chaos bolt but they make it so difficult
stray sigil
zechey IS DG PVP
random patrol
I play better now then I used to and the secret was thinking less
thank heavens boomy is a smoothbrain spec
also had a metal terranium lid flip off of the tank into the air and hit my elbow 10/10 would rec again
livid wasp
yeah well I need to think more somehow
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2578333928?filter=archives&sort=time recorded the last session at least maybe ill see something
livid wasp
like I can see some shit like their hunter going for a trap obviously on my healer
which I could try to eat
or go kiting in that moment
but its really hard
in the moment
random patrol
playing unholy dk atm prob better then frost but frost is more fun
Idk smoothbrain
safe heart
Wow arena is hard but only above X rating
tropic schooner
well yea if you are a lot better compared to the competition every game is easy
livid wasp
how do you start winning arenas
clear pulsar
Lose enough
livid wasp
ive lost plenty
safe heart
I made egg sandwiches with candy jalapeños
random patrol
pot
wintry jackal
Zecheys mental is contagious
wintry jackal
how do you start winning arenas
Watch your vods
And try to focus on minimizing your own mistakes and play with others who try to do the same
wintry jackal
Best is to just play the game for fun and if you like to win but you’re losing log off
Real
safe heart
play til next L is absolutly goated cr acquiring strat
tropic schooner
Best is to just play the game for fun and if you like to win but you’re losing l...
you forgot who you talk to
wintry jackal
play til next L is absolutly goated cr acquiring strat
100%
velvet quest
I don’t think play til next L is a real strat long term
clear pulsar
Yeah I like to play til next W
velvet quest
Stuff like that might help u hit a session peak cr that’s like 12 or 24 higher than it could have been if you rando windstreak but it doesn’t do anything long term
safe heart
i think play till next W has a higher risk of you tanking than play till next L
cuz what if you just lose the next 5 games
if you play till next L you just lose the next 1 and call it a day
usually its like were playing till we start down trending, then thats when you call the play till next L
velvet quest
Yeah but it just doesn’t do anything long term cause ur cr is a reflection of how good you play and any strats like that don’t make you play better or worse. It’s like when people think they have a winning casino strategy that outplays the odds idk
clear pulsar
Yes but this is how you get more juice out of someone mayo
You pretend you agree with them
safe heart
its like a failsafe so that you dont accidently lose moer than you had to
doesnt really have anything to do with how good or bad youre playing, it just stops from going on a loss streak just to win 1 game
im not even trolling rn like you guys dont play till next L?
velvet quest
No if anything ending on a loss just tilts me lol. The goal is to figure out when ur mental or fatigue is causing u to play worse and stop there, regardless of whether ur in the middle of a streak
wintry jackal
Everyone’s different
velvet quest
But if ur next session is more than 15 or so games u’ll most likely stabilize whether u ended last session on a win streak or loss streak cause again ur cr and mmr are just indications of how good you play
I know everyone is different when it comes to mental but there’s no trick that helps u climb long term when it comes to ending on a win or loss
wintry jackal
2 things it’s early in the season so the stakes are low unless you’re already high CR
Ehh I disagree
For me and from what I’ve seen I just get locked in to make silly tilting mistakes
And unless I step away and can think or come back and watch the vod the same things happen
Also I want to win but also play the game for fun and more importantly taking a break and walking away helps me come back fresh / in a more mindful mood
I also feel like when I go do something else I realize it’s just a game and winning or losing doesn’t matter and I should just be playing to improve
velvet quest
So if u start making silly mistakes u end the session now or after next game whether u win or lose. Do you think u climb long term if you start playing worse but say “stop after a loss” to potentially get a random lucky winstreak?
safe heart
i mean i do think itll help yea
cuz it means i never lose more CR than i had to
cuz ur mmr is gunna try to trend you towards that 50% right, so if you go out with the least possible L's youll keep more CR
velvet quest
But u wouldn’t lose cr at all if u ended before playing that game wdym
Ur mmr is gonna trend u towards 50% at the level that u can perform at sure
But ur not making ur long term mmr higher by excluding a few losses
wintry jackal
I think it trims pointless losses where you’re playing in a bad headspace
Not reflecting or doing anything to improve
Cus let’s be real some points q’ing you get like that
And your team feeds off it, look at baseball
safe heart
one thing that i never really put together till sorta recently was when you have an amazing session with some randoms, you guys all friend up and then go ahead tomorrow and have the most tragic loss streak imaginable is just the product of going up too much mmr in the last session and paying the price now lool
clear pulsar
safe heart
ive always used play till next L
velvet quest
I just don’t see how it improves mental when u make the decision “we are playing worse we need to stop soon let’s play until we lose” instead of “let’s call it there”
safe heart
gives you a chance to get your cr back without risking it all
i hate that like you cant just pvp and have fun at the same time so you gotta mind game yourself like this
velvet quest
Getting ur cr back doesn’t do anything if u didn’t get better at the game in the process of playing those games
If you played 1000 games with a perfect mental in a week ur cr isn’t climbing much higher than the level that ur capable of playing is it? Or do you think u can take mini breaks and beat the system and slowly climb if u didn’t simultaneously improve
safe heart
i mean if im really bad and cant break 1200 or whatever then yeah i mean i gotta improve at the game to get much farther than that but i just look at it as a micro optimization that helps squeeze out some extra CR
this strat isnt gunna cheat my way from 1200 to 2k or anything but if you play till next L and accidently win 4 more games, thats valuable points and MMR for free
if ur not fit for the mmr you get placed at with those extra wins then whatever, but otherwise it helps set you up for success, cuz youll lose less points when you get rekt tmrw
wintry jackal
I just don’t see how it improves mental when u make the decision “we are playing...
Oh I misunderstood, I will call it
safe heart
plus i think alot of ppl dont wanna just be like "damn we rly logged on tn and lost the first 5 games lets just stop now", so play till next L feels better
to me atleast
safe heart
i do get what youre saying
velvet quest
I’d rather play through a 5 loss streak if I know our mentals are good than keep playing after going 4-1 when we aren’t talking and games feel sluggish
safe heart
you have a better pvp mindset than me, i cant help but play slot machine with my cr
its just the way i look at the game
unironically kinda view pvp as a gambling game sometimes
velvet quest
Think about it this way enji, if u know ur playing bad ur win chance for next game is prob like 40% at best right? If u play til u lose its 60% chance of insta -1 and then 24% chance of +0 and 16% chance to go positive like i just dont see how this helps
Like ur putting urself in a spot where ur pretty sure it’s likely to go on a loss streak and then play at least 1 more just to be sure or potentially get a few lucky wins before the loss and if anything u learn the least when ur tilted and playing bad
safe heart
part of it honestly is just hoping you get a couple lucky wins
velvet quest
I actually think I tend to do the opposite, if we have a bit of a win streak and then we keep playing and have a really shaky and tough win or just a super lucky one I’ll insta say “let’s call it there” most of the time
safe heart
you lost a few so maybe the next couple will be easier
velvet quest
Yeah it’s hard, I’m constantly evolving our strats about how we want to spend our time on mains and it’s easier if it’s the same premade grp every time
safe heart
if you play with friends its like a totally different game
i will decapitate myself irl losing with pugs but i can lose 200 cr with friends and just say "i bet we could make some small changes and improve here"
velvet quest
Cause to me it matters more that we’re in the right headspace to be learning and improving and communicating with each other about what to change and you can figure out whether the mental is there long before you can figure out whether ur group is playing better or worse
wintry jackal
if you play with friends its like a totally different game
i will decapitate mys...
When we Q’ing mate
velvet quest
And to me queuing without finding things to improve on is wasted reps and I’d rather us be on chill alts where we can queue for fun without repercussions
wintry jackal
I liked what you said when I was mega tilted zechey level
That q’ing with bad mental is working out with no sleep
velvet quest
Yeah enji I think our whole mindset diff is coming from us playing with completely different sets of partners
Did I say that or enji
safe heart
my partners are ppl like ronin
velvet quest
That’s kinda based ngl
safe heart
and other random toxic ppl i find online
wintry jackal
safe heart
<:surprisedpikachuface:739989349323767911>
not the feral one
velvet quest
Ronin is a multiglad enji all it took was for him to find partners who accepted irl money and it was that easy
safe heart
he never paid me, thats the biggest problem we had with our push
wintry jackal
not the feral one
safe heart
folt we will play
wintry jackal
Hahaha no pressure or rush
safe heart
my sp had 4pc and isnt full greens
safe heart
it is fun
i feel like sp is the only class i can play in arena now
and i think its because of disperse tbh but wcyd
lunar sphinx
safe heart
u rly just gunna post a phishing link in chat like that
lunar sphinx
It’s a genuine Reddit post by blizzard
Go search Reddit for it if you don’t trust the link
safe heart
im just memeing
livid wasp
pvp is fine
safe heart
i agree
lunar sphinx
It’ll be fixed with the new epic BG for sure.