guardian

[arctic zenith]

Not home rn
ll send u screenshot later

[merry quest]

As opposed to mangle giving 20ish every 5 or less

[half surge]

dont get me wrong, lunar beam is still very strong button but

[arctic zenith]

Still dps loose

[half surge]

suggesting not pressing mangle is very very wrong

yes ppl do it, ignore the mangle

but who cares...

its still wrong by some point

[unborn dock]

Mangle no mangle is a debate and it's pretty clear you can time 21s with mangle and 21s without.

[half surge]

and advicing new bear ignoring it will lead to very bad consequences

[arctic zenith]

I mean in logs the bears timing 22-23 ve like 5-10 mangle casts in 30min keys

[merry quest]

P much - either will time keys. Because the general setup is significantly overtuned rn

[rotund maple]

I thought you only mangle when you're absolutely desperate for rage

[half surge]

yes, and nobody said its bad or good, but recommending something thats ppl do in high keys to newbie

[merry quest]

But even if you favour no mangle, it’s not a dps gain in all scenarios

[half surge]

is bad thing

[arctic zenith]

Y sure u wont die if u press mangle but if u wanna play optimal u shoudlnt press it

[merry quest]

Primarily, it’s not in st

[unborn dock]

You clearly seem to be playing optimal, can I have a look at your logs ? I want to see 100 everywhere

[frozen depot]

Isnt the biggest dps increase for a tank

To not die

[merry quest]

You’re not going to die by pressing or not pressing mangle

So not sure where you’re going with this

[rotund maple]

Lunar Beam itself, in fact, generates no rage.
It does, however, have a chance to proc Moonfires, which do generate rage.

[arctic zenith]

I mean ve 19 resi and ve 0 surv problems without mangle

[frozen depot]

I mean in 22s having incarn for certain pulls is requiered?

[merry quest]

Yes, ofc

[arctic zenith]

Y thats way more important than pressing mangle or not

[frozen depot]

Talking about carzy optimasation lead mr to think you guys are talking about 22s

Cuz why would yoj minmax the shit out of smth you dont rly need

[merry quest]

Mangle literally gets you more incarns. That statement does not support your argument

[frozen depot]

(I know to some its fun to minmax regardless of content)

[merry quest]

Moonfire gets you more lunar beam, mangle gets you more incarn

That is the major planning points

[unborn dock]

So you read his message, saw his questions and only thing you had to say was: "unbind mangle ?"

[arctic zenith]

In my higher keys I ve incarn rdy for every 2nd pull
So every 2nd pull can be huge

[half surge]

for me minmax is to get more incarns to feel safer

in certain pulls

[frozen depot]

Like gnomerender said, there are situation where he wants more lunar beams and some where he needs the incarn for certain pulls

Why limit yourself to one thing

[merry quest]

No no, you’re not allowed to bring context into this

[frozen depot]

Aw damn

[merry quest]

As per every discussion in here there must be one clear decisive answer

[frozen depot]

[merry quest]

At all times

Shame on you sir

[half surge]

just dont press mangle and moonfire

press swipe

and done

[frozen depot]

I already said im sorry

[merry quest]

[frozen depot]

Only press thrash

[half surge]

and swipe

[frozen depot]

Nono just thrash

[half surge]

https://tenor.com/view/noted-anime-gif-25088894

new meta born

[rotund maple]

Bro already has 80% Haste.

[frozen depot]

My keys mostly dont last longer then the first BL

[merry quest]

[frozen depot]

So basically 100% uptime on BL

[clear hinge]

am i the only one struggling with treat? dunno what im supposed to do more, doing beam into trash every mob and still losing while gathering x_x

[sweet burrow]

playing tank for 2 weeks only. you moonfire + thrash while gather mobs. Thrash was buffed to deal more dmg, so it is also aggro buff (if I understood correctly).
If ppl start dps into mobs without your aggro - not your problem I think.
But when you have moonfire + thrash - group most likely will never get aggro out of you

ofc you also want to taunt prio mob

[olive compass]

beam is obviouly not going to get a lot of threat

thrash will

[sweet burrow]

also, from what I see, beam is not smth to get agro or deal dmg. Beam is one of our defs, not aggro generator

[lucid hemlock]

Well it buffs trash damage so in a way it does increase aggro!

[sweet burrow]

true. But I don't think that you want to beam 1 mob just to have better aggro generation from next thrashes. Correct me if I'm wrong

[clever coyote]

May I ask why WowHead and IcyVeins suggest using build with Astral influence and Starlight conduit, without points into moonkin? it somehow affects moonfire? or Im missing something?

[tight compass]

Its a very very slight damage increase because it buffs the starsurges your thrash can proc

and range on moonfire can be a nice qol in some situations

[clear hinge]

and what about gcd on trash, if u loosing aggro during that gcd outside of incarn u swipe ? xD

[tight compass]

It depends on how you're setting up the pull etc but generally if you're doing a large pull with several packs you should have incarn there to thrash every pack as you move. If you're doing a multi pack pull without incarn it can get shaky if the dps are trigger happy

But moonfiring pack 1 as you run to it, hitting thrash, moonfiring pack 2, hitting it with a swipe, then a thrash, should be ok

With barkskin running for some barmbles pulse damage too

[clear hinge]

so on AA you incarn first pull?

[tight compass]

on AA first pull you absolutely incarn, moonfire the 3 lashers and let them come to you then pop incarn

dps should know to not blast while they're moving in to you

[shy berry]

Anyone know what addon lets me see my co tanks stacks in raid?

[half surge]

big wigs

[shy berry]

I use that, must have to do some config stuff

[half surge]

yes

[inner lark]

private auras section

[shy berry]

yeah found it, this will work?

[hazy mural]

if u have moonkin and HOTW, u can mf the 3 packs, go boomie HOTW then back into bear and insta have decent tag aggro on every mob

[inner lark]

yep just click the moving anchors and test aura button to put them how you want it

[shy berry]

thank you!

Also could anyone link me the cast sequence macro for

Rake (turn into cat with fluid form)
Cast HoTW
Then back to bear with mangle?

I'm using this - just want to make sure this works, it seems to cast hotw and mangle together

#showtooltip heart of the wild
/cast [stance:1] Rake
/cast Heart of the Wild
/cast Mangle

[jaunty osprey]

are people helping soaking the lazers in 2nd boss of skyreach in higher keys as a tank? in Pugs, not cordinated groups.

[trim plaza]

Sometimes yes when tank buster is not coming

[slim tinsel]

you can always soak a fairly good portion of it right after tank frontals are done, usually like half of the beam, very useful

[wide pelican]

Afternoon guys, quick question about Dream of Cenarius vs Dream guide, what are you guys specing into? Alot of guides pointing me towards Dream guide and seems alot easier, but would it not be better to help out the healer with an on demand use heal with greater potency? Please help😁 im doing 17+ keys and feels like it would be nice to help out the healer

[shut jasper]

generally speaking pick dream of cenarius if you're running reinvigoration and dream guide otherwise

the regrowth from reinvig will consume the stacks from either but only get buffed if it's dream of cenarius, with dream guide it just munches your stack for 0 benefit

[wide pelican]

Thank you🙏

[sweet burrow]

there is always 1 sequence of tank basters. 3-2-3-2-.. . So each time there are 2 basters - after 2nd one you can go and soak closest beam

[burnt sandal]

Question. Ursols warding vs Brambles I hear people kinda dumping on warding a lot. Is brambles overall just a better talent.

[hazy mural]

they dont really fight against eachother

UW is something u take cause u cba with the other options

brambles u take 100 pct of the time

[brazen tinsel]

Not really, no?

[burnt sandal]

I mean you say that. Dataset doesn’t show that many people taking brambles esp in M+ and a lot of people taking UW that’s why I asked.

I see a lot of people dropping FR shield and running both

[brazen tinsel]

Brambles is about 2% dmg in m+

Your choice whether you want some more dmg or some more defensiveness with one of the other talents

[burnt sandal]

Personally I’m thinking just drop warding cuz FR shield is actually more useful for magic busters IMO

[hazy mural]

I mean what are u gonna take over brambles with current build?

[jovial mauve]

Still cant decide which talent to pick between fuild form, innervate, symbiotic relationship or forestwalk

I feel like my healers doesnt need innervate at all, i dont really mind to add one rake and one mangle everytime i use hotw, most of the times just cast it 2 times on every boss but almost never on trash

[burnt sandal]

I kinda shift around all of those based off comp/dungeon

If you have a shaman innervate can be utilized a little better in high keys. I almost always take forestwalk in AA to help with lasher kite whilst still being in bear

Symbiotic IMO is always sorta throwaway tho. It’s kinda paddy bullshit healing that rarely saves anyone

[jovial mauve]

I did my last +20 aa without kitting no evoker

I picked innervate because maybe when the healer notice the buff can do the better healing rotation without care about efficiency

[gray glade]

Good morning guyz..noob question....if i check murlok.io stats with mine.....should i chek my stats in which form? Is that useful? I know sim, etc...mjust courious about how stats should be checked, in which form....or if i have to check the absolute value....

[hazy mural]

whats ur tree atm? for me I have both and UW is just an extra point I cba to use elsewhere

[burnt sandal]

That’s what I run like 95% of the time

[hazy mural]

do u know about the DG bug with reinv?

[burnt sandal]

Yea I’m aware. But I still think it’s more help than hurt and wasting globals on regrowth feelsbadman

[hazy mural]

its reducing the DG regrowths u get tho

if u really wanna keep it, id suggest moving UW to Brambles

its a much better point

[kind seal]

If your wasting those procs by never using them to begin with yeah i'd swap some stuff around

[burnt sandal]

Yea that was my plan. I run forestwalk most keys for gathering speed so i don’t wanna really drop reinvig

[jovial mauve]

I used them a lot to offheal the party

[burnt sandal]

It sucks they haven’t fixed the DG shit tho for sure

[jovial mauve]

Btw 2-3 times on every key my ally hp drops like 1-5% so if i werent use it would die

And some times i use hotw with human form

[sleek wolf]

can someone help with macro for hotw this doesnt seem to work #showtooltip heart of the wild
/cast [stance:1] Rake
/cast Heart of the Wild
/cast Mangle

[still locust]

Add stance:2 to hotw line if you want it to work

[sleek wolf]

what im trying todo is use fluid form in the macro to go cat, hit hotw dps and then mangle to pop me back to bear

with the brackets apex?

it works thank you

[shy berry]

Yo I asked this earlier (#guardian message) and no one got back to me so messed about with cast sequence

Try this, it works for me
#showtooltip heart of the wild
/castsequence reset=5 Rake, Heart of the Wild, Mangle

You can also do

/castsequence reset=5 Cat Form, Heart of the Wild, Bear Form

If you don't have fluid form

[sleek wolf]

ty 🙂 - do use mangle aswell in M+

[vapid forum]

Should we be catweaving with HotW, cause I usually use moonkin on aoe pulls

[jovial mauve]

moonkin is for early agro, cat is for st dmg

[burnt sandal]

Cat on bosses moonkin on packs basically

[vapid forum]

what would the moonkin cast sequence macro look like?

#showtooltip heart of the wild
/castsequence reset=Moonkin Form, Heart of the Wild, Mangle

?

[burnt sandal]

Sometimes if there is a big mob like an arcane sentry in MT that gets left alone end if pull I’ll send a FF on that

[vapid forum]

Also are there any abilities I can safely macro my emberwing feather to so I dont have to worry about it?

[burnt sandal]

Eh you can put it with berserk but with the CD reduction on rage they are gonna desync and you will have low uptime on emberwing

If you truly don’t care about when you use it and don’t want a hotkey you could put it with beam or thrash

[vapid forum]

Yeah I was thinking Lunar Beam

[burnt sandal]

I would lean toward beam since you have a damage amp going on there anyway

[hazy mural]

u wanna use it with Incarn but if u macro it, when u pre incarn before start of dungeons, it will use the feather but not reset it, so u need a seperate incarn for the dungeon pre incarn

[vapid forum]

I'll also put the feather on my bar so if my lunar isnt up, i can either hold it till a power amp or send it.. I'm still working on my rotation cause I feel like my ST is pretty low.. For AoE I'm opening with lunar, thrashing on cd and spamming mf while keeping ironfur up. For ST, I open with lunar, pop incarn, hit a moonfire and then rotate between thrash and mangle.. is there something else I should be doing?

[jovial mauve]

anyway moonkin is 2 talent points just to get agro faster on some packs... idk if is worth it

[fallen robin]

What else do you get with those talent points?

[fluid gust]

faster Aggro faster dmg up from your DDs, it can be worth

[shut jasper]

it's arguably not worth it everywhere but sure as shit is nice in algethar for the first pull alone

[supple lava]

Matted

[hazy mural]

can have all!

got x2 matted and moonkin

[spare violet]

hey guys, since i cant raid. i cant get a mythic tank trinket. im using the heroic trinkets plume and gaze, both voidforged ofc. Im seing some guardian druids using darkmoon deck: void? im running 18-19 keys atm. i assume the trinkets im using are better than the deck?

[burnt sandal]

I think people use void because they are FOTM rerolling bear and it’s easily accessible. There are plenty of better trinkets

That being said tank trinket optimization this tier was really bad. Having dreadscale be the only like viable one and be locked to raiding was a weird move.

[vapid forum]

Why can't you raid papa?

Chimaerus mythic is one of the easiest bosses to pug in a long time

[hazy mural]

theres a medical condition where u vomit everytime u step into a raid

[vapid forum]

Ah, I feel that. Sorry for your loss.

[hazy mural]

thank you

[vapid forum]

I feel like if you're doing 18s-19s you have time to pop into mythic pug for a couple bosses here and there.

[raven briar]

There is a cure for sure

[vapid forum]

I thought playing Guardian WAS the cure.

[vapid forum]

So based on the rotation I mentioned I was doing above, what can I work on to make it better in M+?

[hazy mural]

its horrible

just stepping into raid makes u become a volatile weapon

[supple lava]

typhoon then!

[trim plaza]

I use it only in few dungeons where i need for quick threat, example AA first pull or seat

[olive hare]

Its a weird move, but not uncommon by any means sadly, countless bis m+ trinkets have been locked behind later raid bosses in the last years, especially tank ones. Fyrak heart, bombsuit, swarmlords, aegis, rdm, brand immediately come to mind for example. Blizz really wants m+ players to participate in the raid treadmill. Sad thing is some of these trinkets were so incredibly strong that even on veteran track they were competitive/better than most of the non-raid heroic+ stuff.

[forest flume]

their way to try to make raiding "relevant"

[olive hare]

You mean their way to reduce lfr waiting times

[forest flume]

people trying to get trinkets for m+ aren't getting it from LFR :p

[spare violet]

this is why i dont raid 😛

[olive hare]

I wouldnt anymore. But gotta admit, the lfr defense matrix or more recent brand of ceaseless ire went a loooooong way sim wise.

[burnt sandal]

I mean I felt like stuff like brand was BIS by leaps and miles for sure. A hero one just whooped everything on myth besides itself

Probly normal as well like you said tazzer

[forest flume]

wheres my bis tank trinket for m+, from m+

smh

[burnt sandal]

I don’t think it needs to even be BIS I just I get trying to
Hype raid trinkets. But right now I can’t even think of an option

[forest flume]

dreadscale, even if not bis, I think would be the go-to for a defensive option atm

[burnt sandal]

Like they are just horribly bad. You lose so much by wearing something like globule

Yea it is. We were saying it’s sad that all the M+ ones are so ass

[forest flume]

I have the jelly one on myth on my prot paladin it is so shit

[burnt sandal]

Solar core I think is arguably the best one. And it’s ass

[forest flume]

everytime I think "I could go kill dragon for a chance at dreadscale", I log off at the thought of zoning into a raid

[burnt sandal]

Sadly the other option is “let’s go hangout in dreamrift every week” and that’s what I did lol

[shut jasper]

I got hc dreadscale warbound on my main on first myth kill

[spark depot]

Would you say Dreadscale+Gaze or Feather/Guidon+Gaze for pushing keys?

[unborn dock]

Idk I nearly finished my 19 resi and still didn't feel like needing dreadscale ATM. Tank trinkets are really undertuned

I run gaze/ heart of wind. Getting an on use during Incarn is not really helping your survival, just enables more DPS during a window where you are unkillable anyways

[forest flume]

I'm looking at getting heroic dreadscale for a couple of spots, got done with 19s this weekend and have two 20s done, I would say the room before veximus and possibly skyreach is where I though "It'd be nice if I had a little something extra"

[spark depot]

Thats what im thinking, having a dreadscale to use outside of incarn or a second proc trinket+gaze

Ty!

[trim plaza]

Had the same with pala, tested it one dungeon and straight to vendor

[forest flume]

in my defense it was either that or a 227 adventurer trinket, figured I'd use the mythic trinket for a +16

[azure ibex]

I was promised that if another myth dreadscale drops i would get it on my priest as an extra defensive

[shut jasper]

amazing

you could use litany like augs do

[cold ocean]

Anyone use sensei resource bar and able to get absorb shields to show? For example I want to see the value of shield from FR

[half surge]

not like it matter at all in higher (17+) keys... absorb is gone pretty quickly

[unborn dock]

Don't you play on instincts ?

[hazy mural]

I have that too!

[noble locust]

[hazy mural]

[half surge]

[steel maple]

Hello bear people

[noble locust]

BAER not a people

Hello smiling dragon

[steel maple]

I am leveling a bear tomorrow I'm off work and I'm going to be getting to max

I wish to tank but all the other tanks scare more or don't fit my play style

[noble locust]

Welcome to the floof side!

[steel maple]

Thanks after being a DPS dk player for a long time I'm ready

[noble locust]

[half carbon]

hi guys i dont know if this was known, but my friend told me that combo of Darkmoon Dominion: Blood, it triggers the lowest secondary stats , but if u have all stats same , it will trigger all 4. that's a huge stat gain. And we as bear can make high hast and crit mast vers as same, u will gain more that 2000 stats when trigger

i can give u a not bad build if u have thoes items and interested on it

Tier helm: 111 H / 54 M
Arathi neck: 170 H / 133 V
Tier shoulders: 41 C / 82 M
Tier cloak: 32 C / 60 H
Halls chest: 96 H / 68 M
Tier bracers: 27 H / 65 V
Tier gloves: 86 H / 37 V
Windrunner belt: 75 H / 48 V
Windrunner legs: 100 H / 65 C
Tier boots: 81 H / 43 C
Crafted weapon: 85 H / 85 M
Alyn trinket 298: 123 M
Arathi ring: 173 H / 130 V
Nexus ring: 91 H / 212 C

This seems like the most realistic setup to complete. Most of the difficult slots are covered by tier pieces, so the only pieces I really need to roll for are from Windrunner, Halls, and Arathi.

For tuning:
Gems: 11M/4V + 14C/6V
Enchant: Eagle-Eye, +29H
Oil: Gold-star Salassian Phoenix, 16C/16H

sry for harassing

[spice nebula]

What’s the likelihood Bear stays in Meta for 12.1? Anyone with experience when Bear is this high up.

[slate iris]

So we just don't take percentage based increases of stats?

[half carbon]

yep, all take main stats good

[serene gyro]

heroic plume or mythic emberwing/heart of wind? with voidcore applied to either?

other slot is heroic gaze with voidcore applied

Would replace heroic Gloom trinket (with voidcore applied)

[fallen robin]

Can't we just sim? Also is this Darkmoon buff really better than the Agi from a max level myth weapon?

[still locust]

Have you confirmed that this works yourself?

Or are we just trusting a random person?

[fallen robin]

Heart of Wind if you like passive, Emberwing if you like active. Gloom isn't too bad on damage if you use it a lot.

[quaint pond]

it easy enough to test just remove all gear and check your character sheet when it procs

[serene gyro]

right now gloom in macro'd to incarn

i'd likely do the same for emberwing

[quaint pond]

obv a bug and if the dev copy+pasted correctly it wouldn't happen but you never know

[fallen robin]

Wouldn't the secondary stats on weapon mess it up? Or is there a way to craft a weapon with no secondary stats?

[forest flume]

just don't equip a weapon

[tired timber]

but its ΑΡΚΤΟΣ not ΑΡΤΚΟΣ

[noble locust]

No it's not

[tired timber]

well ok i guess

[winter sonnet]

in regards to the 2p bonus. Are we using maul now?

[noble locust]

Bold claims require bold proof

[still locust]

Use the trinket

[tired timber]

its obviously Greek language 😄

[noble locust]

Yup,... And?

[tired timber]

well happens to be greek and there is no word :p

[still locust]

You're assuming they're spelling bear

Which was your first mistake

[fair umbra]

would you guys run hero gloom over myth heart of wind for m+?

[tired timber]

thats true

[quaint pond]

wait when did BAER get the funny E or was it always there

[noble locust]

Somehow it's always the Greeks that try to correct BAER, never the English, Russian, Latin speaking peoples

[still locust]

I don't think many people speak latin these days

[noble locust]

Because BAER could fit OURS, and then @tough wind would feel left out

[tired timber]

well maybe they try to help you due of hospitality

[noble locust]

Then they should give BAER some giros or souflaki

[steel maple]

If I had to bet good money I would bet they are going to nerf the current no apex build because you know Blizzard wants you to play with their new toys but other wise probably stay strong just because how tanky the bear is

[noble locust]

Or both

[tired timber]

with pleasure

[noble locust]

[tired timber]

https://tenor.com/view/kaden-bear-walk-gif-15031442544519350917

[noble locust]

Please post the food in the secret food channel

[rustic kestrel]

@still locust Naowh made a tiktok about pooling rage for 1-2 ironfurs at the end of pulls to be safer on the next pull. This is obviously bullshit right? I should be macroing it right?

[still locust]

https://tenor.com/vsho5DyTrJx.gif

[winter sonnet]

macroing IF to what? Thrash?

[rustic kestrel]

I macro ironfur to a sensor attached to my lungs so it casts it every time I take a breath

[forest flume]

Nice try, but kelebrindal afaik is still on his very-nice-guy-awesome-attitude streak

[still locust]

I hope you stop casting ironfur soon

[rustic kestrel]

LOL

[noble locust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKD1jQkMXrA
This helps getting rid of anger

[forest flume]

pedals are still underrated

[quaint pond]

i can't wait for new apex 'cast ironfur at 50% effectiveness when you maul, cast maul at 50% effectiveness when you ironfur'

[still locust]

Team Maul-for-IF vs. Team IF-for-Maul

[rustic kestrel]

Baer is always a beacon of positivity

[forest flume]

Honestly, I wouldn't be mad at ironfur being gone, and the apex being that our damage spenders would give ironfur passive instead

[still locust]

Just remove ironfur at have us sit at permanent armor cap in combat

Problem solved

[noble locust]

BAER has to be, otherwise it would be a sad world

[rustic kestrel]

"so i think its clunky to cast spenders, can i get away with zero ironfur uptime?"

[forest flume]

fuck these people

there i said it

Are they also playing rogue without spending their combo points? what are we doing here

[rustic kestrel]

popular streamer: "heres a new build, you can run it in your +10s, it does about 40% less damage, and your healer has to heal you 4x as normal, but it works so its good!"

[forest flume]

If the only way to spend rage is maul/raze (and I guess, FR), there isn't any decision to make anymore

you are missing hp: you heal, you are not missing hp: you do damage

[quaint pond]

which slot is bis offslot is plenty enough decision load anyways

don't need more overload

[rustic kestrel]

true

If I have 50 of the wrong stat on one of my tier set slots

its gg

remake the character at that point

[forest flume]

gg indeed

[steel maple]

Who is running that bear seems to have an easy time healing himself and doing damage at the same time lol

[rustic kestrel]

It was a meme referencing a hypothetical build where a person doesnt want to press ironfur

[steel maple]

You don't even press it from what I see online you just mico it to anothet skill

[red knoll]

Yes why would you want to pool ur rage thats useless and takes up coggy load

[unborn dock]

The blizzard 1 button rotation fits perfectly players that want to macro ironfur and unbind mangle. Might as well just macro barkskin to your thrash at this point

[hazy mural]

did u know there are bears in feralas called ironfur bear?

[trim plaza]

Prob OBR is also too much effort

[red knoll]

Only button i wanna press is w

Why make the game harder

[unborn dock]

I press S, I walk backwards into packs, I'm a bear

Let them hit that juicy behind first

[red knoll]

Yo wtf arcane doesnt even have to press their buttons to drain mana anymore?

Why cant we have that?

Instead I have to macro this useless button to drain my rage

[rustic kestrel]

arcane bug is one of the most insane class bugs to make it to live

I guess resto shamans mana reductions had to come from somewhere

[forest flume]

did you know there's a portal to amirdrassil in feralas

well, bel'ameth, same thing

[hazy mural]

yuck

[shy berry]

I am looking at raid logs and struggling to find where other bears are casting HotW either in opener or at all during a fight. Any idea's?

[rustic kestrel]

it wont show in casts, just look for them going into cat form

[shy berry]

Yeah, haven't been able to find that either

for example
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/b2XVanKQjq8fgdYH?fight=7&source=4&type=casts&view=timeline

[sleek wolf]

do we use mangle

[still locust]

They start in cat form on pull

[gray glade]

Trying again mates, can u help understeand?👀

[rustic kestrel]

yeah, then he casts again at 2:13

[still locust]

This is the damage from the first HOTW of the fight

Looks like they have it macro'd into incarnation

So start cat, pre-puzzle box, potion, lunar beam, hotw+incarn+incarn(wild guardian)

[red knoll]

Thats a choice

[still locust]

Which part?

[red knoll]

Macroing motw to incarn

[still locust]

It's more than fine to do

[rustic kestrel]

could be really stupid in keys, but in raid it probably makes sense most of the time

[red knoll]

They desync pretty often

[still locust]

Your incarn is on a pretty "strict" 2 min timer in raid

Because you don't have to give a shit about defensive value of LB or anything

So you just play everything on a 30/60/120 timer

[rustic kestrel]

being able to cast lunar beam outside of bear is still funny to me

[still locust]

As an aside, I wouldn't look at a speed-kill for how to time CDs

They do weird shit sometimes

[shy berry]

Thanks for the help working that out. Yeah I agree it was just the easiest one to find. If there's another log you suggest to look at to better understand the opener if really appreciate it!

[still locust]

If you're not starting tanking, you can start in cat form like that guy did

Otherwise

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/guardian/compendium#rotation

Then it's under "pre-combat"

If you fold out a hero tree in this section

[shy berry]

Thank you ❤️

[red knoll]

Also dont look at dragons

[still locust]

Make sure to have the right talents selected though

[red knoll]

Fucking degens in there

[still locust]

In the selection bit above "pre-combat"

Degens on most bosses tbf

Adds on 1st boss, adds on 3rd boss, adds on chim, adds on dragons

Technically also adds on 2nd boss but harder to cheese

[red knoll]

Only boss ive seen nopex on is dragons

Which is just entirely useless damage

[still locust]

Only boss you've seen it do well*

I've pugged a bit and every single time I see a guardian druid they have Ursol's Warding on their buff bars

And you just know they aren't specced SOTF or apex either

[forest flume]

Every time I mention that talent to people, they all think it's 10% magic dr

[rustic kestrel]

people cant read

bear literacy rates at 2%

just watch clickbait yt video or loud tiktok man (they also didnt read)

[red knoll]

I have considered taking it on paladins

But thats about it

Ironfur is kinda useless on that fight lol

[tough wind]

[noble locust]

got any proof for that? BAER very good at reading

[rustic kestrel]

no one is doubting the abilities of Baer

I would never

[noble locust]

but all BAERs are good at read

[steel vault]

what boss to lust on in AA ? do folks go tree or vexamus first ? (not sure why that showed up as a reply)

[trim plaza]

Out of curiosity, who is loud tiktok man xdd

[rustic kestrel]

Typical to Lust first pull/Crawth/big pull at the end

[rustic kestrel]

it was just a generalization

idk if there is a loud bear tiktok man

[trim plaza]

Ahh, tru

[rustic kestrel]

im sure theres one somewhere

[lucid arrow]

first pull, crawth fire phase (do wind first), then last boss

[steel vault]

if first pull = tree area big pull, lust isn't up for craw ? Or is it?

[rustic kestrel]

Lust will be up for 2nd phase (fire)

unless you're doing like a low key

then you just send wherever

[steel vault]

OK thanks

[forest flume]

theres nothing dangerous on last boss

[steel vault]

my AA pulling path seems to be slow-ish, maybe I need to skip more ravagers

[forest flume]

rather send it on triple/quadruple echoknight just before

[steel vault]

anyone got a good pull path for AA ?

[steel vault]

ya then you are skipping ravagers?

[forest flume]

no

I skip one I think

[lucid arrow]

thats not a pug friendly pull

[forest flume]

No I skip 2

[empty compass]

hey guys brand new to tanking and brand new to druid. I'm doing alright in dungeons so far(spammed dungeons up to 86 so far). Whats the best tool for getting m+ pulls, and the best place to get "routes"?

any other tank related addon suggestions would be appreciated as well!

[lucid arrow]

you lust the pull before echo if you're pulling 4 echoknights but your pug will just die there

[steel vault]

ya Im mostly pugging 13/14 range, I do all the ravagers but path seems slow

[lucid arrow]

theres a lot of pug-unfriendly time saving pulls on AA, but you can safely skip the first ravagers

[steel vault]

Can I (is it faster) to maybe skip the whole area between craw and vex? Like do craw, then backtrack to vex, and pull the one ravager + all mobs before vex, then all the books ?

[rustic kestrel]

you should see the monksea route

shit is so convoluted

[steel vault]

welcome to BEAR ! Some folks use mythic dungeon tools, its an in game addon that can show routes, but most pugs don't use it. That pick from bulok has one.

[still locust]

Ain't got time to wait for RP in this household

[rustic kestrel]

they dont lust Crawth which is fucking insane to me

[still locust]

crawth is easy though

If you just kill it before it kills you

Free boss tbh

[rustic kestrel]

trueeee

just heal smh

[lucid arrow]

i mean you dont lust difficult shit only

you lust whenever its up to kill shit faster

[empty compass]

Awesome! Ty! Is there like a general repository of routes on a website or something or are they just kind found here and there

[lucid arrow]

https://threechest.io/

and keystone.guru

[empty compass]

amazing, ty!

[lucid arrow]

keep in mind you need to decide if youre going for the optimal or the safer routes/pulls

depending on your keystone level and general skill level of the other players

[empty compass]

got it. thanks guys!

[abstract inlet]

is solar core igniter decent?

[rustic kestrel]

is very poop

[red knoll]

Bro how are mistweavers still complaining

Most broken healer since idkwhen

But tigers lust doesnt work with haste o no

[clever kernel]

Do people generally use action targeting? I think the random pulling from Waking Nightmare is due to them going for whatever you are targeting when it spawns, and with action targeting you are passively always targeting something

[limber moth]

Non-druid player here, is there any way to track if my Druid has Survival Instincts/Incarnation/his Ironfur stacks? Currently the only defensive I see is Barkskin (and pseudo see incarn due to pete's defensive)

[red knoll]

Thats by design

[steel maple]

Y'all need a cop bear

[worldly lantern]

does anyone know a good toy i can use to stay human form

[red knoll]

Why would you want that...

[grave vapor]

There is one that turns you into Millhouse Manastorm

[worldly lantern]

this is my normal bear and sometimes it's just too large but im not gonna swap off the form and lose the bug

[noble locust]

That's not a BAER

Real BAERs don't skip leg day

[sleek wolf]

do you guys macro ironfur into thrash?

[red knoll]

No

[still locust]

We don't recommend macroing IF to anything

#1463934154935894128 message

You can if you absolutely want to play a 2 button spec, but it has no real upsides and plenty of potential downsides

[forest flume]

the upside is watching people not being able to rez their healer and thus deplete a key

makes good cinema

[half surge]

https://tenor.com/view/reactions-gif-23256962

[sleek wolf]

and do we use mangle & maul

or just spam thrash and moonfire?

[still locust]

That's a personal preference at this point

I will never not press mangle and maul/raze

Because those are fun buttons to press for me

[forest flume]

Imagine not using the very first talent we spec into when we become a bear

feelsbad.jpg

[sterile verge]

Have any of you found anything you can say at the start of a key to help people to interupt more ? I was thinking something like.....

/s Lets play a game. Set your Details to Interupts / Stops overall and see how you do.

[forest flume]

give them 10k per successful interrupt, that should work

[sterile verge]

Ouuuu I like it.

[still locust]

The best part is it's completely free!

(They won't kick)

[void magnet]

4 overlapping kicks on the first cast

;xdd

[sterile verge]

hahaha

[sterile verge]

You are not wrong.

[trim plaza]

I dont even wanna count how many times my kick has went to south because of aug nonstop knocks

[rustic kestrel]

I love when augs double knock and the mobs go out of melee range

[still locust]

Never seen the mythical triple knock?

[olive hare]

Speaking of, would there be some broken downside to kicks behaving like dispels (putting those on gcd, but no cd on a miss)?

[rustic kestrel]

macro into everything

The only thing they need to do with kicks is steal fellowships marker system

the half assed setfocus/marker macro isnt good enough

[still locust]

If it's on the GCD you couldn't

[rustic kestrel]

yeah but that would be dogshit

[still locust]

I don't see any immediate downside (aside from bad players spamming it out of fear of missing kicks, thus nuking their actual rotation)

But I also don't really see a huge benefit

[forest flume]

specially in seat when champions charge you back

[shut jasper]

can't really track when the dupe will knock unless you're actively staring at it

[vapid forum]

Is there a toy that lets me be a bear but in human form?

[forest flume]

maybe this https://www.wowhead.com/item=198173/atomic-recalibrator if it lets you pick your original race/gender

[little karma]

do u guys have tips to get more dmg output in keys cuz i can consitantly get 100k overall but i reckon i can get more but idk how

[muted pulsar]

Press more thrash

[blazing gyro]

bigger pulls more trash

[muted pulsar]

That's like by far the biggest improvement you can get generally as long as you have the basics like enchants potions etc

If you often delay thrash by a few gcds it's the biggest damage loss you can avoid

[forest flume]

do you play the same dotc build in every key or do you have some places where you tweak it

completely irrelevant to the comment i replied to btw

[blissful inlet]

Hi guys, hope some1 big brain can help me i am doing almost no damage in m+ keys and hope someone can explain what i do wrong? https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/tVzqZdxQFaTNfhvn?type=casts&fight=7&source=145 Thanks

[red knoll]

if u dont do damage in the first pull of that dungeon you wont do damage

AA is a very bad indicator of our damage profile

[blissful inlet]

well it is general all dungeons

[red knoll]

aug's damage also seems very low

[vapid forum]

I need to find a new funny name for my druid.. I was thinking Barkwhalberg, but I know I can do better.

[blissful inlet]

yeah i know he is still new to aug

also have log from 17 MT https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/brqR19dpCc4vjat8?fight=4&type=casts

[noble locust]

what form will you use?

[red knoll]

idk seems pretty average for your ilvl

[vapid forum]

Male Haranir Guardian with the ugly ass thornbatbear?

[rustic kestrel]

Pretty much play the same shit

[blissful inlet]

so you think ilvl will fix this ?

[rustic kestrel]

Until my brain randomly decides to try something new to hyperfixate on

[red knoll]

you have 2 passive trinkets and neither are bis

so like

i think having an on use is very good for guardian

[blissful inlet]

i have a hero Emberwing i can change to

[red knoll]

you're also not using consumables?

[blissful inlet]

no i did not..

[red knoll]

okay well consumables are a large portion of your damage

especially potions

[blissful inlet]

emberwing would you use in incran window or when incarn window is not up to keep haste up.

[red knoll]

idk i dont like or use emberwing

other people use it

[blissful inlet]

what trinket would you recommend to farm

[red knoll]

probably during incarn

guidon

[noble locust]

pangoliath?

[vapid forum]

Not bad. not bad. I was hoping for something edgier, but I feel like druid names are poop

[noble locust]

pangoth

[blissful inlet]

cool thanks 🙂

[hazy mural]

ur using too much MF and missing out on a lot of potential thrash casts

it reduces ur dps by quite a bit when u make that mistake

[red knoll]

i mean yall tell people to spam mf

x.x

then say theyre doing it too much

[hazy mural]

best advice I can give is to make sure ur UI clearly shows when ur thrash is gonna come off cd, u wanna be ready to press it so u dont accidently press something else and miss putting it on cd

[vapid forum]

There's no way I'm doing the rotation correct for ST, cause my damage is shit.. AoE is basically lunar beam, thrash, and mf spam, but I feel like I should be doing more ST

[trim plaza]

whats ur average st

[hazy mural]

the trick is ur aoe rotation is ur ST rotation

[red knoll]

ur st should be around 30-50k

[hazy mural]

LB and thrash on cd, mf as filler

[red knoll]

if ur playing the meme build

[blissful inlet]

Thanks i have changed so i can see my trash if on cd a little cursed

[hazy mural]

idk, id put it with the others

[vapid forum]

I'm doing like 30k at 281.5 ilvl

[hazy mural]

just need to get in the habit of looking at it, where it is now would send me down a dark hole

[versed portal]

hey all, never tanked (i am scared of it due to poor skills or remembering routes etc) but with the little highlight things i thought id give it a try. Just a random question though what should my stat distribution look like - is this ok?

[hazy mural]

im not ocd but that is crazy

[vapid forum]

What should I be doing while inside of incarn during ST, is it 1 moon fire and then back and forth between thrash and mangle?

[hazy mural]

thrash, mf, rinse repeat

if LB is coming, u replace one of the mf with LB

[red knoll]

for rage spend ideally yeah

mangle should be used in pure ST

[hazy mural]

wont need to worry bout stats, best thing to do is just get used to the dungeons and ur buttons

[red knoll]

for rage to reduce incarn

[hazy mural]

once u got that down, sky is the limit with whatever stats u find fun!

[red knoll]

losing out on 1 mf in the rotation is not going to significantly hurt you

[versed portal]

yea i know - just dont wanna make it harder work for healer and rest of group whilst im learning XD

[sterile verge]

Single targets kill your overall.... and time.... Make sure people are prio targeting in big pulls so you arent left with one mob at the end and where possible, pull mobs onto bosses.

[trim plaza]

aoe, cleave, st doenst matter, u prio trash 24/7, moonfire/mangle how u want

and lb on cd

[hazy mural]

if u want a guiding star without having to sim, u generally want haste, but wont lose ilvl for it

all the stats are good in their own way, but u feel extra good with enough haste... but u dont have to stack it to the moon to get that

[versed portal]

ok ty, i guess i'll just have to bite the bullet and give it a go

[red knoll]

no trust the extra haste andy has totally matters

[hazy mural]

enjoy the tanking journey! its crazy how easy it is to get into keys once ur used to it

[red knoll]

Is there a site for routes for high keys

[versed portal]

generally ive always just healed them as i am not good with learning routes etc (i also only play on laptop so no 2nd screen to help me with routes) but i wanna get good at it and druid tank is in a good place atm so prob best time to learn it

[hazy mural]

yh, for sure... this is the simplest tanking has been in a while to pick up... theres still some nasty spots but they are few and far between

[arctic solar]

Hey whats the stats prio with no apex build ? any macro i can use also

[red knoll]

no recommended macros

stat prio is sim

[oblique adder]

how hard is getting leech/speed on bonus rolls?

[forest flume]

Honestly it's 50-50, either you get them or you don't. Not sure there's any actual % for those its pure RNG

[hazy mural]

never seen 1 on bonus rolls so far

[jovial mauve]

I use bearform + mouseover moonfire and bearform thrash to swap from any other form, mouseover regrowth, mouseover soothe, mouseover innervate, mouseover symbiotic relationship, mouseover br, mouseover dispel, incarn+potion, mouseover taunt, cursor vortex, mouseover wildcharge, mouseover kick...

also using catform sprint to swap to cat and if i hit two times or once im cat cast the sprint

i have moonfire and thrash macro in everyother form action bars so i dont have a bind for forms itself

[arctic solar]

can u send it here?

[jovial mauve]

my game is in spanish..

[arctic solar]

oh

[forest flume]

got this 30 minutes ago on my ppal :o

[jovial mauve]

u have to change the spellname

[forest flume]

not speed/leech buuut

[hazy mural]

[jovial mauve]

mouseover macro for any spell:
#showtooltip
/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead][] Regrowth

[arctic solar]

for trash moonfire combo? ironfur got it?

[jovial mauve]

i translated by myself so idk if its accurate xd

#showtooltip
/cast [@cursor] "vortex"
/cast "massive roots"

so u have the same keybinding if for any reason we play the other talent instead of vortex

#showtooltip
/cast "incap roar"
/cast [@mouseover,exists,nodead][] "single target stun"

same for this talent node

thrash macro should be like this

[dusk geyser]

hello,

[jovial mauve]

also i use this macro for travelform if possible but if im indoor it switch to cat to go faster but only works fine if playing guardian spec

#showtooltip
/cast [indoors, noform:2] "·cat form"
/cast [Outdoors, noform:3] "travel form"
/cast bear form

change the names between ".." for the name of the spell in ur client

[jovial mauve]

i have ironfur macroed to moonfire

not recommended but if u want to use it:

[arctic solar]

ok thanks i will use without it 🙂

[red knoll]

why would you need that thrash macro

wtf

[dapper solar]

this is terrible advice

[jovial mauve]

Because u dont have the forms binded by itself

[trim plaza]

i recommed heavily to learn use ur mitigation manually, just for better good in future

[jovial mauve]

If im playing guardian and use thrash binded in 4 i put that macro on cat, human and moonkin action bar to switch bear

[halcyon jackal]

is this our bis ?

https://www.wowhead.com/item=151313/vest-of-the-voids-embrace?bonus=6654:13578#comments

[jovial mauve]

So if i press 2 (moonfire) or 4 (thrash) i switch to bear

[halcyon jackal]

over 100 leech rating

[pallid charm]

what is our stat priority? ive seen different stats depending on the source so i thought id ask here

[halcyon jackal]

haste > vers > crit > mastery

[fallen robin]

Sim it or vibe it out. Nothing really strict.

Every stat is valuable in its own way so there will never be a reason to min/max the stats very hard. Haste is generally the best and everything else is close to equal.

[halcyon jackal]

mastery is kinda weak with 50+% uptime of lunar beam

unless you are an odd ball and play dotc

[fallen robin]

There are options. Could be for EC Raze or raid spec too. The mastery bonus from Lunar Beam is always the same no matter how much Mastery you have.

[hazy mural]

that dosent matter tho

[halcyon jackal]

it does

[hazy mural]

means more damage just the same as other stats

[fallen robin]

If the Mastery didn't ignore DR you would be correct

But it's always the same

So the bonus isn't devalued by you having higher Mastery

[hazy mural]

all the stats equate to more damage and different ways of making u more defensive

[dapper solar]

rely more on sims than a specific stat priority

[halcyon jackal]

are you assuming that when 1% crit chance when you have 50% crit has the same value as 1% at 0% crit chance ?

[hazy mural]

the way stats are, the amount u spend thinking about em could be better thinking bout routes and mobs tbh

[fallen robin]

Lunar Beam ignores DR from secondary stat totals. So if you have 1% Mastery or 25% Mastery you get the same bonus from it (30% as EC).

[halcyon jackal]

I know dude

but +1% mastery at 0% mastery is not the same as +1% mastery at 25% mastery

the value is lost by 25%

[jovial mauve]

That macro just thrash normally if u are in bear form, idk why i have to bind all the forms… its an efficient way to swap bear, but gl man u command 🫡

[dapper solar]

it was macroing ironfur into rotational abilities, which is bad advice

[fallen robin]

You're getting the same bonus per point of rating for each % before you hit DRs.

[halcyon jackal]

... you can't read

[fallen robin]

I don't have the rating numbers in front of me, but it isn't devalued like that.

Are you talking about Diminishing Returns or about something else?

[hazy mural]

I've tried to read it like 5 times now and it dosent make sense what ur saying...

wheres this 25 pct lost value coming from?

[halcyon jackal]

not about rating mate. Let make a simple math. when you have 0 crit chance, +1% crit = +1% damge. but when you have 50% crit, +1% crit = +0.5% damage

hope that's clear enough

[hazy mural]

crit is a chance something will happen

mastery is a pure increase of ur damage

[jovial mauve]

My thrash macro didnt had ironfur xd

[halcyon jackal]

oh, let me rephrase it for you to understand, at 0% mastery, +1% mastery = +1% damge. but when you have 50% mastery, +1% mastery = +0.5% damage

good now ?

[hazy mural]

that still makes no sense

[halcyon jackal]

....

math is hard

[hazy mural]

yes, it is

[halcyon jackal]

actually it's 0.67% to be correct

[hazy mural]

still dont get how u got ur stat weights because from common knowledge, they are all relatively equal with haste being a bit better to start with

[tawny stone]

If your damage is 1 without mastery, and 1.01 with 1% mastery, that'll be a 1% damage increase, now if you go from 1.5 to 1.51 that's 0.67% increase relative to any other multiplier

[trim plaza]

These kinda things are what u dont need ever to ever think about, just trust the robot

[hazy mural]

it also make players worse

a lot of ppl blame stats for failures

[pallid charm]

which simulation would you guys suggest i do to figure out what the best stats would be for me?

they dont recommend the stats sim

should i just ignore that and do it anw

[trim plaza]

Ye i was about to say that secondart values doesnt make u somehow good at the game

[quaint pond]

you just use top gear or droptimizer

[steep sentinel]

I have a question about Ravage. What is it and how do I find it? The "how to play bear" guide says to maul if ravage is up but I don't see any talent that refers to ravage

[quaint pond]

simming stat weight is both wrong info (since the default settings don't give you gearing weights) and a waste of time since you may as well vibe it out instead

if you don't want to bother with the addon + clicking for top gear just vibe

ravage is the first talent for druid of the claw

[trim plaza]

Maul changes to ravage when it procs

[steep sentinel]

Oh ok i'm playing EC which explains why I don't see it

[pallid charm]

cant choose flask and gems with those right?

[quaint pond]

you can

[trim plaza]

Ye DotC thingy

[steep sentinel]

is DoTC better then EC for m+?

[pallid charm]

as in i have the gear and i need to know which gems to put and which flask to use

[pallid charm]

i like ec a lot more, im running 19s comfortably with the no apex build

[quaint pond]

there's section for gem & gears just scroll down

[trim plaza]

Not really, both are viable but EC no apex build is the "meta" build

[quaint pond]

but also you can jsut vibe haste flask cuz faster thrash = more fun

[steep sentinel]

Thank you! Also someone told me that you are supposed to macro ironfur into your thrash and moonfire? Is that outdated advice?

[trim plaza]

Not recommended

[dapper solar]

it was never advice to begin with, always misinformation

[quaint pond]

it's for if you want to be lazy/cba. it'll get you by you just won't learn much but if your goal is not to learn the spec but enjoy being meta then it'll suffice

[pallid charm]

i have iron fur macroed to thrash, and i also have thrash and iron fur separately. it works for me really well so i have more control and i get to not think about iron fur at the start of a pull when im just spamming thrash

[tawny stone]

This is the way and also haste battle pot to go above 100% haste during BL, is it the best? No is it fun, yes

[hazy mural]

also cheaper!

[pallid charm]

see im at ~31% haste which is already DR land

so i dont think i should use haste gems anymore, probably mastery and crit

[steep sentinel]

That makes sense, I would rather learn the spec than just cheese my way thru it, I don't really plan on doing much as I main DPS usually but thought I should learn to tank. Played druid for years as either Feral or Balance.

[quaint pond]

you have over 1320 haste rating?

[pallid charm]

ye thats why the hybrid approach works really well for me. its not an either or thing, its both 🙂 and most importantly you should do what works best for you

[pallid charm]

no.. i thought DR happened above 30%? im not sure i just looked on wow head and they dont explain a lot. which is why i thought id ask ppl here

[quaint pond]

nah that article is so bad

[dapper solar]

it's almost irrelevant anyways

[quaint pond]

it's made the entire situation so much worse

[pallid charm]

i see i see

[quaint pond]

DR only applies to ratings, not stats

for haste rating it starts at 1320

[pallid charm]

im at 1100 or so

[hazy mural]

is that 31 pct in human form?

[quaint pond]

so w/e stat you see on the sheet doesnt' matter because stats don't have DR, it's only the ratings part that does

[hazy mural]

cause thats a similar rating for me and I get like 24 pct in bear with flask

31 pct in human

[pallid charm]

facepalm moment

it was in flight form LOL

[hazy mural]

[trim plaza]

Classic

[pallid charm]

i really wish they would show the rating instead of %

[hazy mural]

hover over the pct

[quaint pond]

blizzard thinks it confuses players

[hazy mural]

in character sheet

[quaint pond]

so they don't want to show it by default

[pallid charm]

i know, but i wish it were the other way around

[hazy mural]

nah pct is easier to digest for ppl

rating is just a number

[quaint pond]

tooltips are designed to be simple, not correct

[pallid charm]

maybe if your class doesnt change % every time you shapeshift XD

[hazy mural]

pct makes me me know how much better

[fallen robin]

No because this isn't how it works.

[hazy mural]

I always measure haste when im in bear

one day ill play resto rat

and ill enjoy the haste version

[pallid charm]

ye usually i do too but i forgot to this time because why not lol

[hazy mural]

blame the healer!

[pallid charm]

ah yes, healer didnt adjust u___u

[hazy mural]

if healer did their job in healing ur fatigue, u would have measured ur haste in bear form

[pallid charm]

^ 100%

[steady furnace]

Hey all, is it worth replacing Champ eye of midnight or does it hold as BIS even at champ track?

[red knoll]

i dont think its bis over heroic pieces

tbh

[solar spruce]

I feel like myth NPX rings have to be better

[red knoll]

at least for damage yeah

[solar spruce]

Even for defensive the shield value on the proc is close to meaningless

[red knoll]

96 avoidance is like

something

its not actually nothing

[solar spruce]

Yeah but you only get the 96 avoidance when the shield is active. And at a 10k shield a mob sneezing on you in a 15 is going to break it

There's an argument for hero track eye, but not for champ track

[steady furnace]

I figured it was weighed so heavily due to that insane amount of haste, this is also my first season tanking so still learning the ropes, I did figure the constant avoidance outweighed the on proc 96

[solar spruce]

To be clear, I wouldn't replace even the champ track eye with the ring you linked

But there are other better options, specifically the NPX set rings

Even at champ track all that haste is better than crit/mastery at myth

[red knoll]

contrary to what some people would have you believe haste isnt the only stat for bears

crit mastery is fine

why we saying that

[fallen robin]

Only reason the ring would be better is at same ilvl if the second socket is better than the NPX ring value.

Not even sure if there are enough Shadow/Chaos damage sources this season in M+ to want it for the shield.

[red knoll]

bear likes crit and mastery

lul

[quartz kernel]

Considering defensive value for higher keys, do we think heroic dreadscale is better than myth heart of wind?

[halcyon jackal]

short answer: no. Long answer: still no

[quartz kernel]

Well, shit. Might still run scale in SR and Seat at least.

[rustic kestrel]

Scale is within ~2% of other trinkets if used on cd, obviously less if you have to hold it. Its a pretty powerful trinket

[glass grove]

Is the pit trinket near scale?

I got blown up in an 18 sky reach and would have liked another button to press at some point

[rustic kestrel]

pretty sure scale is the only defensive trinket worth using

[vernal fog]

scale very good even better when ur playing with adhd dhs that will send a collapsing star onto the first mob u moonfire

[halcyon jackal]

post-nerf elune favour healing is damn sad

[livid frigate]

Would you guys recommend trying heroic scale over heroic gaze for keys around 17-18? Or not worth it at that lvl

[boreal heart]

Does the random chance of 5% vers reduction from feather really not matter at high keys? Just out of curiosity

[magic reef]

Hey guys, noob guardian druid here, I did a 16 AA and got roasted by the 4 battle axe pull before Vexamus. Do I need more then barkskin, FR/NR and a stack of iron fur to start that gather?

[boreal heart]

Axe pulls, if you don’t have bark or survival up, kite straight away

Don’t risk it because you can 100-0 even with bark up if it somehow syncs

[magic reef]

Yeah, that's what happened and I was very surprised

[next coyote]

Do you ever Frenzied Regen on Incarn? And should the macro of Ironfur be on Thrash or Moonfire?(is there a big difference?) is there a video/guide that explains this in detail?

[magic reef]

Incarn>Thrash+FR spam pretty much makes you immortal for 30s, at least in up to +15s, especialyl if you have natrual resilience talent which converts FR overheal to an absorb shield which can be like 500-700k with Ursoc's Fury as well. For the macro, I think it's typically done on Thrash>Iron Fur. Awoo on Youtube had a video explaining that piece and the details

[rotund maple]

It makes you immortal in 20s too.

[next coyote]

I saw that video too, hence the question. Other tanks don't do it though, so kinda confusing now

[boreal heart]

At lower keys you can do it

I think 18 and up is when fr is used defensively

Like seat first boss, ws third boss

[crystal silo]

What’s better for parsing on Lura as ec: using echos in first lunar beam for mastery buff or saving echos for crystal drops so they hit multiple targets? I would assume the second but a couple of top logs I looked at sent echos early

[tulip lodge]

puzzle siming lower than hero feather... interesting.

[abstract raven]

Been using it in 19/20s seems Okey

[abstract raven]

More thrash output

[tulip lodge]

im just tryiong to decide if it pull it out of GV or just take the extra token.

[ebon yew]

Hello people, trying to improve my ST damage, what do we do in st scenarios?, we swap cat and hotw?

[abstract raven]

I'm Using it and enjoy it
Macroed with incarn seems to
Line up nicely for big burst windows in higher keys

[tulip lodge]

I think i drink too much to use it.

[tulip lodge]

kitty is actually really fun.

[crystal silo]

Does mangle have higher prio than thrash in raid ec build

[sterile verge]

What wouldent give for Bliz to gate keys to keep people who cant or wont kick or do basics from bricking keys.

[chrome storm]

specifically for m+ if i am into the first dr of haste should i swap some enchants/gems around to a different stat

[olive hare]

Thats why you dont use details for data. Logs would show that EF still heals for a fuckton, its just all overheals because of the ton of absorb bears have.

[olive hare]

Sim question.

[chrome storm]

cant sim survivability

[olive hare]

All stats are equally good for survivability, thats why you optimize for dps.

No , haste and esp vers arent better in that regard

[chrome storm]

yeah thats why you see so many guardian druids as full crit mastery in high keys right

[olive hare]

They run haste because haste is our best offensive stat for a good amount, especially as no apex.

[chrome storm]

so what you said in haste and vers arent better is wrong you just contradicted yourself one sentence later

[fallen robin]

What does the sim say?

[olive hare]

*for survivability. If you cant read properly and respond friendly why are you looking for advice?

[drifting agate]

Hmm. for some reason my macro doesn't send me back to Bear Form
#showtooltip Moonkin Form /castsequence reset=10 Moonkin Form, Heart of the Wild, Bear Form
Any idea, whats wrong here?

[fallen robin]

Your secondary stat distribution is mostly vibes if you aren't going off of sims.

[chrome storm]

"thats why you optimize for dps" "haste and vers arent better in that regard" seems like you were talking about damage

[fallen robin]

Dreamgrove.gg has some great info about it.

But how much does swapping all gems/enchants change it? 100 points rating swing?

[olive hare]

Time for the ugly ass paint gif

[unique oyster]

I'm using a macro that makes me throw trash and ironfur on the same button, but I'm not hitting half as hard as those doing the same level of 19 stones as me. Should I keep using the macro or is it irrelevant?

[fallen robin]

For your damage profile it shouldn't be relevant unless it's forcing you to Thrash less

Most of that is due to better tuned pull size/cadence.

[olive hare]

Thats not because of the macro. Most likely they just pull bigger, have a better route or make better use of SR and LB

[fallen robin]

Or composition.

[olive hare]

Yeah that too. Raidbuffs matter

[boreal heart]

I be honest haste is pretty good stat not only damage but somewhat survivability

Faster moon fire/thrash = more lunar beam = more health and healing

Oh and imagine getting stuck on a gcd to use fr

You also pull better with faster gcd

[unique oyster]

That's what I'm wearing, which I should improve.

[boreal heart]

Go to bear form and show the stats then

I’m 25% haste and vers with motw

[fallen robin]

You could sim but any other suggestions are mostly vibes. Typically it doesn't suggest going over 30% Bear Form Haste.

[unique oyster]

in the shape of a bear, without consumables

[olive hare]

Guess sims would suggest dropping a little haste in favor of mastery. But again, thats just minmaxing for dps. Aint worth spending thousands of gold on different gems/enchants or recrafts unless youre a parse chaser.

[unique oyster]

Do you still value the critic?

[normal flower]

Sim your gear with SimC addon and raidbot website, see what you can optimize with best gear available, gems/enchant.

But like others said, the difference mostly will come by how often you are pressing trash when available and of course, above all of that, your route in dungeons.

Ask yourself, can you reduce the number of total pulls safely, can you pull on bosses, when can you chain. Etc.

[strong tartan]

What's the st rotation for the EC no apex build

[boreal heart]

damage wise, always best to go with simc, computer can never be wrong

but i like to move my crit to mast/vers so i feel beefer

but your haste is very good

[storm fiber]

Same Problem Here. For Cat it works, for moonkin Not.

Got a solution meanwhile?

[vernal moon]

Hi, if the Elune build without Apex means the tier bonus is not used, is that correct? If so, what is the optimal tier set? Any link or help?

[south glen]

I think tere was an improvement, so thank you for the advice

[tall basin]

if you do raid's you should use T-set because you play raid with apex.

but ye for m+ you can play without T4 Bonus. - if you play to no apex build
you can sim it. but stats doesn't matter that much^^

[brittle talon]

Just out of curiosity, why is that we use Sundering Roar > Moonless Night in Mythic+?

If Sundering Roar is only accounting for 2-4% overall, how is 20% extra arcane burn from Thrash not more beneficial for damage? is the bulk of Sundering Roar's damage shown under Thrash because of the stacks and its just way more than its actually showing?

[quaint pond]

moonless doesn't work on thrash

[tall basin]

moonless night only works for your direct meele attacks.
i guess it only proccs with stuff like mangle and only for 1 target.
and sundering roar gives you also more tankyness + 1 reset on trash

[brittle talon]

oh DIRECT, I'm just fat bald and ugly nvm

[quaint pond]

moonless only works on single target abilities + maul replacements

[brittle talon]

reading is hard man

[quaint pond]

no the tooltip is stupid

it's not on you

[brittle talon]

I always read it as "direct" being like not a bleed or something lmao but I get it...like not an aoe ability

[unique leaf]

how good is this def trinket?
ich have gaze and vs dmg trinkets on myt

[brittle talon]

that makes sense ty lmao

[quaint pond]

yes that's how anyone would read it

and thats' what it used to say 'single target abilities'

then the dev changed the tooltip and never changed the functionality

[brittle talon]

W small indie company

i appreciate it!

[tall basin]

idk never saw anyone playing this
but vs gaze and light company i guess not that good

[lucid arrow]

kinda meh, better def than nothing but i wouldnt personally bother using any def trinkets that aren't dreadscale

[slender raven]

guys I have 3 questions.1) I have 12 bonus rolls. Outside of raid which m+ dg should I use them. 2) How does getting a loot from weekly vault effect bonus roll drop of that item in dungeon. For example if I get nexus point feets from vault can I still get them from roll ? 3) Do we use 4 piece set in apexless build ? or Just catalyst 2 piece when better find items with haste stats?

[tall basin]

1. 1 bonusroll for Chim mythic - and idk why but i prefer to do some bonusrolls on void first boss. after this i would go for stuff like seat maybe or if you wanna play nexus ring combo go for this. all gucci
2. no effect. they have a diff loot table.
3. on no apex you don't need 4 set (if you read the 4 set bonus you will see that you didn't press this ability's) - but it's not that bad to use it, because you will play 4 set in raid anyway. and the stats doesn't matter that much

[slender raven]

which one is better nexus ring combo or seat ring plus crafted ?

[merry quest]

I this a new toon?

[slender raven]

yes fresh 90

[merry quest]

Use bonus rolls to exhaust the Windrunner spire loot pool, then use other dungeons to get myth pieces in other slots

Your goal is to just get myth pieces in every slot - min maxing upgrades can come later

[trim plaza]

^ adding to this, be sure to be guardian loot spec

[south badger]

Yo guys, I am currently maining brew sitting at 4020 rio but got a sideproject with my mate for fun with guardian.

Is it correct that guardians only use 2 set and no apex? 😂

[left lantern]

can do either and it wont matter

[still locust]

Some choose to do so for inconsequential secondary stats

It's also only an option for a singular (albeit popular) build out of our 6 viable ones

[south badger]

That makes sense, we want full haste vers as i can tell?

[still locust]

You use raidbots to sim it

Haste is generally ahead, but bear loves all 4 secondary stats

Vers is probably honestly the weaker of the 4 atm but still a good stat

[lucid arrow]

MORE HASTE MORE THRASH MORE GOOD

[south badger]

That’s great ty.

I gave 20 MC a go at 270 ilvl which was a cakewalk but I randomly died in pit 20 to graveblade, so got some stuff to figure out.

Granted i have played the class for less than a day, and got no stagger so i guess u cant just take the frost slash 😂

[lucid arrow]

i take the front slash tbh

at 19, haven't tried at 20

doesn't one shot me

[still locust]

It was probably the 2x frost slash overlap

I imagine

[lucid arrow]

ill pop a def if i have it but just popping FR to heal up is fine too

but yes 2x will kill you

[south badger]

Probably, it can also just be an ilvl diff tbh

I still have some 240 pieces

But kinda funny how a 270 guardian can out dps my 290 brew in big pulls

Incarn does in fact go pew pew

[lucid arrow]

just don't forget your rotation

thrash thrash thrash thrash lunar beam thrash thrash thrash

[south badger]

Yo what about moonfire

[lucid arrow]

only if you're weak and don't have enough haste to make thrash a 1 gcd cd

[south badger]

Kinda funny that 20s are doable with 270 ilvl tho, if i looked at a 20 with my monk in that gear i would die before entering the dungeon

[lucid arrow]

now imagine all the other tank classes

[south badger]

To be honest a good prot pala never dies

[lucid arrow]

what is bro on about

[south badger]

Too bad there’s only 1 good prot pala in the world

[left lantern]

hard to die in +17s for sure

because they dont get much higher

[vestal escarp]

hey everyone
is gaze even that good defencively? versus like heart of the wind or solarflare

[south badger]

Yoda did 22s as prot pala 😂

[lucid arrow]

a strong gust kills prot pala

[left lantern]

with a resil slave and infinite attempts because he went floor pov so many times

[south badger]

True

[still locust]

Imagine calling a tank capable of 22s "weak"

[lucid arrow]

what tank isn't capable of 22s

[south badger]

Blood dk i believe

[left lantern]

all tanks are capable of timing 22s

but its just... why

[lucid arrow]

anyone can 22 with a resi slave

[south badger]

Did a BDK time a 22 yet?

[left lantern]

not yet

[lucid arrow]

bdk is the only one without 22

i think

[south badger]

22s on my monk is fairly easy to live with exceptions like seat, some parts of pit and skyreach

I imagine when i get grown up gear on bear it’s gonna be even easier

[left lantern]

the only difficulty on bear is not losing aggro while gathering

[south badger]

Yeah i honestly agree with my few hours of beat experience

Gathering is horrible

[lucid arrow]

there's moonkin hotw for pugging

otherwise tell people to wait the fuck up while you gather

I'm looking at you devourer

[south badger]

Also question

Do u wanna hold the sundering roar until all the mobs got 5 stacks of thrash? I have used it to get aggro early from dps’ers with ADHD

[lucid arrow]

no use it on cd to reset thrash

[left lantern]

what does moonkin hotw do again? is it starfall?

[south badger]

Is it mot a massive dps loss to not use it at 5 stacks to get it to 10’ for the explosion or whatever u would call it

[lucid arrow]

ye

[lucid arrow]

im p sure it's a dps gain to use it on cd to reset thrash rather than wait

[south badger]

Aight ty

[left lantern]

you can not guarantee 10 stacks anyway and the thrash reset itself is the main damage gain

but you can do some thrash reset things with SR and incarn... thrash -> SR -> Thrash -> Incarn (off gcd) -> Thrash for a little "burst" (if you even want to call it that)

[south badger]

Tyty guys

[quick schooner]

Well trinket and rings are my last slots to change from hero to myth. I've rolled 2 times in npx already and there's my question. I THINK that rings from seat have better stats defensively and drop voidstalker concrat (sims as 3rd best option for aoe) or i can do another 2 rolls in npx. what would you do in my situation as i have 1 myth ring from vault and voracious one has decent stats? Sims tell me to break the set bonus so idk...

[trim plaza]

i would still go for npx rings

[scenic geyser]

for m+ , 4set or nah?

[still locust]

Are you planning to press maul a singular time ever?

Realistically there's no real gain to not have 4p

All 4 secondary stats are strong for bear

So swapping good secondary stats for "maybe slightly better" secondary stats is a miniscule gain at best

[pearl jetty]

hey fellas how do you track debuffs on yourself generally? i wanted to try tanking with guardian a bit when farming bonus rerolls in dungs (rdrudu here)

do you use the blizzard default debuff list and move it near your healthbar? is there some UI that attaches debuffs to your frame or something?

[trim plaza]

i use only blizzards cdm

works fine for me

[pearl jetty]

for debuffs

is that a thing

[trim plaza]

for debuffs too if needed

[pearl jetty]

Is it a separate window in the edit mode that its called debuff?

I cant find it in the options either

[trim plaza]

u open editmode

look close to ur minimap

there is debuff frames

[pearl jetty]

oh okay that bar, but its not part of the cdm why did you say cdm

[coral rampart]

Yeah base UI not cdm is what he meant probably

[trim plaza]

for buffs i use cdm, debuffs i only need that frame

bebuffs kinda w/e for me anyway

[coral rampart]

Take this debuff frame, get it close to your HP bar on a side, make it bigger and all set

[trim plaza]

^ this

[pearl jetty]

very much thanks

[trim plaza]

as long as i see my mitigation buffs and cd timers, im fine xd, then i just moved that debuff frame where i can see it easily

[coral rampart]

You can also use party frame btw if you display all debuffs even those you can’t dispel. There is not a ton of debuff you want to keep track of anw. AA bleed, Sky fire dot stack, maybe Seat champ dash bleed and WS/MC armor debuff?

[hazy mural]

problem is it shows debuffs u dont wanna track too and can get really annoying tbh

[coral rampart]

Yeah in that part it’s not different from your personal debuff frame

[tribal lantern]

For tankiness only, do you guys think it's better to have a 285 haste/vers chest or a 289 crit/mastery one

[sharp gale]

probably 289 cuz more stamina and crit/mastery no?

[tribal lantern]

i guess crit is good for dodge but im shifting from mastery to vers cuz in 22s you cant rly heal one shots :")

[boreal heart]

agility > any secondary stats

so i think that chest maybe better

[merry quest]

If you’re getting actually one shot that’s a cooldown issue, not a secondary stat distribution issue

[trim plaza]

289 better just because of main stat already

[frosty junco]

I did try to find flashing claws in my logs of yesterday but cant find it. Is it correct that it is not listed there ?

[still locust]

Yes, it's just thrash

[still locust]

Like the others have said, your choice of secondary stats basically don't matter in keeping you alive

[ashen sandal]

what if he just took 1% less damage from the oneshot and lived..

[merry quest]

What if

[ashen sandal]

i'm a mastery stacker though so i wouldnt know

[tribal lantern]

I'm talking about swapping all your crit or mastery here not just 1%, having 10-15% more vers will definitely save your ass past a certain level

[sharp gale]

but your question was about equipping a 285 chest vs a 289 chest

either way more agi and stam is prolly saving u just as much 🤷

[lethal sparrow]

is it known that if you switch specs you loose the benefit of Gift of the Wild and need to recast Mark of the wild?
I noticed it yesterday. Its 3% vers lost

[chilly void]

which should be a better choice for m+ mainly, noting that i currently have 2 bad trinkets 🙂

[trim plaza]

Gaze

Not even close

[tall basin]

it doesn't matter

[trim plaza]

But if u can pug mythic dreamrift, i should go clear that before picking vault

Nvm its mythic gaze so u can clear it

[chilly void]

i will prolly do mm dreamrift before taking vault, but is the dreadscale trinket bis for m+? or niche

[tall basin]

i would say it's
gaze > gloom = light company guidon = umbral plume > heart of the wind > Emberwing Feather

[carmine void]

gaze is technically easier to obtain then ezzorak, idk. That's what my pug brain tells me, i would take scale.

[trim plaza]

Its one of best ones yes

[snow kraken]

what do we think about rings for 22s
NP rings mythic (2set)
or
seat rings mythic (2set) ?

[tall basin]

if you think on any level 3-5% more versa instead of mastery/crit/haste would carry you. you should not play high keys.
because secondary stats don't matter that much. and for bear it's litterly haste > versa = crit = mastery.

[snow kraken]

i probably thought about the avoidance, since i bonus rolled the 2 rings right now instead of neck
thats why i am asking

[tall basin]

only setbonus:
nexus ring ~1% overall dmg
seat ring - not tested it this season but some people say that avoidance feels not that good in this season. idk

[signal spade]

learning to tap dance irl will have close to similar impact

[snow kraken]

so probalby i just play the both high haste versions of the ring and fuck off the set bonus

[tall basin]

aye or wait for 12.0.7 and if they don't change stats take the ring from new raid:

[smoky kestrel]

Avoidance as tank is really not important

[snow kraken]

true, thx for helping =)

[half surge]

are arcane considered "nature" dam?

[carmine void]

not sure, but at least brambles do nature dam

[half surge]

u dont take brambles pretty often

natural resilience is just better

[carmine void]

u sure?

[zenith gulch]

Does anybody have the one button macro for guardian ?
I tried this :
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6/target Thrash, Moonfire, Moonfire, Moonfire
/cast Ironfur
But it's not perfect since i don't always cast thrash on cd.

[half surge]

yes

in many dungeons past like 17 resilience does like 10-20m healing

which is pretty good

[carmine void]

i rarely press regen that overheals me

[half surge]

idk, just pick whatever poison u like as one would say

for me its resilience

theres simply no one strict way to play bear

[tall basin]

buuuh idk how the procc works. but the big haste stat sounds gucci to me^^

[half surge]

some play 1, some play 2

some play pure MF, some press mangle

etc etc etc

[half surge]

it is, kinda, until u DR it, so dont overinvest into haste

after i believe 1300 its DR

i still believe that doing some stat over DR is kinda bad for bear so dont focus too much on one, i would personally get to like 1150 haste (no flask) and then try to get other stats in, like crit

every stat for baerr is good

[tall basin]

how many bears are in this room with 1300 haste atm? XD

[half surge]

im at 1100 ish

[tall basin]

most bears at ~1000-1100 atm

so don't get scared for DR in season 1

[half surge]

im not scared, its just kind of waste if we talk about some minmax

[trim plaza]

Im about 1k haste myself, aiming for other stats now

[jovial mauve]

should i use gaze+guidon 298 until i get 298 dreadscales? only could loot 285 dreadscales

just for m+

[still locust]

Spending brainpower on thinking about secondary stat diminishing returns is such a waste of time

Let raidbots handle it

There is no world in which you get a better stat distribution yourself by considering diminishing return breakpoints vs raidbots handling it (it also handles diminishing return breakpoints)

[jovial mauve]

prob raidbots would say prio haste until 1320 and pair it with crit depending of ur distribution but versa is better for survival... imo if raidbots says there is an small difference between haste-crit item vs haste-versa u can go for the haste-versa item if the dps difference is small

[hazy mural]

u take both