guardian

[arctic zenith]

Y thedy dont ve it keybinded like Naowh

[proper slate]

Yeah I guess they just order the simplicity of one less button to press and I mean... Fair enough

But like when you've got the maul echo proc and you're safe in single target with lots of rage...

Of course you should hit it

[arctic zenith]

y true I think its fr just like Apex said: they re lazy

But thx for making things clear for me. Felt like a troll doing dmg LoL

[still locust]

I would actually go as far as to say that no, it isn't "fair enough"

Bear has like 3 buttons

Let's not pretend adding maul is complex

[proper slate]

3 damage buttons... then there's the million other things you need to do

[olive hare]

like pressing frenzied every 20 seconds. Or bark every 30. Gotta fit those in, no time for mauls.

[arctic zenith]

U forgot to say that bark isnt even a gcd

[olive hare]

Bro dont stab me I'm trying to make a case for those millions of bear things youre doing at bosses. Gotta do what you can to avoid falling asleep on those

[arctic zenith]

Im sorry. But u also ve to press incarn every 2min and dont forget the pre key incarn!

[olive hare]

For real though, no apex is so boring on bosses that I went back to DoC to at least have something to pay attention to.

Dotc Apex feels so much better in comparison. If only the numbers would reflect that outside of burn bosses.

[arctic zenith]

Perfect example how the meta is fcked rn
I mean the best spec currently dont want to pick the Midnight expansion FEATURE with apexs

[olive hare]

Thats true yeah. But I can see why blizz just took some of that thrash damage buff back and called it a day for now. After so many tuning checks of desperately trying to get bear performance in line they just accepted that apex is currently broken beyond the possibility of fixing. At least we're in the state where multiple builds perform very decent when looking at the whole picture.

[torn depot]

im still a believer in apex

its just so much more damage

[noble ledge]

Oh yeah that's actually the question I have

If you're not like using a lot of IF and FR ( lower key maybe ) does Apex do a lot more damage than Nopex right now

I figure Apex DOTC is probably really good with prio damage even if it wouldn't do more pad

[olive hare]

Used to be that way, but imho Blizz took a lot of the spice out of apex with that last tuning check. It still does strong on dungeon firstpulls (while you could argue it griefs the other specs on those lust openers), or big pulls with prio mobs in it if apex is up. On bosses however it doesnt really stand out unless its a burn boss like last in seat, or 2nd of AA and Nexus. Prio damage is important yeah, but it currently doesnt look like the top keys are bricked on a lack of prio dps.

Outside of that nopex is noticably easier to play, does better damage on average and also seems a fair bit tankier, even if the apex builds just maintain a stack of fur and go to town with razes and ravages.

Sad thing is we reached that weird tuning state for no reason. They alrady cut 33% off those apex echoes and also stopped the pre-wigu buffing on raid fights. There was really no reason to throw another nerf onto maul/raze/ravages baseline damage. If anything, they shouldve given those a 30ish% buff to compensate for the loss in apex power. Then we wouldnt have had this debate, nopex would do fine with that 200% thrash buff, but apex would still be where the big numbers are at.

Yes, guardian wouldve been even stronger than now in comparison to other tank specs. But hey, after S3 protwar we cant really say thats a con.

[mortal wren]

someone know is it still possible get the Tank Form from Mage tower ? or is it just the new transmog

[harsh canopy]

You can only get the fel werebear

[mortal wren]

so you can get the bear form?

[stiff phoenix]

The fel one with green lines you can get, the white one and other variants no

As someone who started in DF it makes me sad

My only upright bear options are fel or tree

[mortal wren]

that is fine green one is good 😄 , you know if you can get the Spectral cat form?

[stiff phoenix]

Unsure on cat stuff

[trim plaza]

u cant

spectral cat form is the legion mage tower challenge form, which is gone

[slim tinsel]

hey I just started on bear, like fresh fresh, ilvl 230, I did a 10 and it was completely fine when I got going, but the gather was very rough, what do you do for gather before you get trashes and ironbark rolling? just pop survival or barkskin?

[trim plaza]

barskin, then u can also send lunar beam from range to get some dps going and bonus health/attack power, then first trash

[slim tinsel]

and then gather them into it I assume?

[trim plaza]

y

throw moonfires here and there what u want to pull, when they are stacked hit trash

[slim tinsel]

and is bear still doing the 2 button rotation? meaning I just do moonfires/trash, and spend rage mostly on ironfur?

[trim plaza]

lunar beam is good for defensive and nice threat walking into pack

[trim plaza]

yes, u can also mangle if u need more rage in some situations, personal feel

[slim tinsel]

any situations I should spend rage elsewhere than on ironfur other than fighting just pure magic enemies?

[odd cave]

realistically you are never just fighting pure magic enemies

[trim plaza]

in aoe not really, bosses u can use maul if u want but its not nothing crazy, without KB talented

[still locust]

Ain't no way nopex is a fair bit tankier when people are dropping mangles because "more ironfur isn't worth it"

[odd cave]

if you are playing the no apex build you dont really want to press maul because it doesn't reduce lunar beam CD

[still locust]

Ironfur is one of our best sources of damage mitigation, and some of these guys just don't care that much about it

[hazy mural]

best trick is to have a barkskin just before a melee hits ur face

[trim plaza]

ye thats what i said, its not that useful without KB talented

[still locust]

Man this whole focus on LB uptime is so weird

It's like a proper obsessions

And it's just like

Not that important

But then again, what is

[trim plaza]

if u want more dmg instead of full brain off, u can talent raze and KB even as nopex player, nets some more dmg

[slim tinsel]

so with no apex swipe is an absolute no press, just moonfire, trash and then defensives/cds

[still locust]

If you want

[hazy mural]

for all of EC, tbh

[trim plaza]

ye swipe is kinda, filler of filler of fillers

[still locust]

Swipe and MF is very interchangable

[hazy mural]

because MF reduces LB, its more of a useful filler in EC than Swipe

[still locust]

Only if that CDR is useful

[hazy mural]

so even when playing apex, it was the useful filler

[still locust]

Not always

You can't just blanket that statement out there

[trim plaza]

with apex u cant go full uugabuuga moonfire spam

[hazy mural]

I mean it was what u used when everything was on cd

[still locust]

If reducing LB CD and pressing it on CD means you delay incarn/apex significantly, then it's obviously not worth it

[lucid arrow]

why would it delay incarn

[hazy mural]

if u didnt have LB on cd, yh swipe gonna be more useful, but thats rare af and likely also not using LB as well as u could unless its riiiiight at the end of a pull

[still locust]

If incarn is 2 minute CD, and you press LB at 1:45-1:50, you're going to want to wait with incarn until LB is back off CD

[lucid arrow]

better to use LB and cdr for next pull lb ngl

nah LB cdr goes way too fast to misalign it

[still locust]

These timers are just an example and not a "this is how it works in keys" but just adjust them down to incarn 1:45 and LB at 1:30-1:35 or whatever

[trim plaza]

point was u dont ever wanna sent apex echoes without LB

[lucid arrow]

apex?

never heard of it

[hazy mural]

from what ppl are saying, they prefer using Apex outside of incarn anyways

[still locust]

I take it you didn't read the conversation

[trim plaza]

mby read next time before talking first

lol

[hazy mural]

to get better defensive coverage outside of incarn

[still locust]

Some do, and it's a viable choice, but it's not like it's always the right choice

Our main defensive suite is already huge and well-covering

[trim plaza]

but u stilll want LB to combo with echoes

[olive hare]

Mostly not about the defensive benefits though, but getting incarn cd rolling while saving the big dps for next pull.

[hazy mural]

never played apex bear to a lvl where I can die tbh... was monk by then xD

[trim plaza]

cause it boosts that like crazy

[hazy mural]

but think gnome lvl ppl seemed to be doing it

[trim plaza]

i see the idea of pressing incarn and saving echoes next pull before trash buffs, but now we are giga tanky 24/7

[lucid arrow]

it's way too content specific to say

popping incarn then apex defensives is a bit too much double dipping though for sure

[shy berry]

Hey dudes do we sim dungeon slice?

[fallen robin]

We can, it works as a comparison tool.

[shy berry]

nice thanks x

[versed chasm]

Question about rend and tear
Does it show on any tooltip like moonfire 12% Dr does ?

I don't see it on thrash tooltip or thrash debuff

Is it just there ?

Do you see it on logs ?

[quaint pond]

it's a hidden part of thrash, it doesn't show up anywhere

[fallen robin]

I think they started to implement it in logs, but Mitigations is still under development.

[minor echo]

What dungeons should we spend on our cores on

[solar spruce]

After the nerf is there a "correct" build to be playing now?

[near glacier]

Tag me for these answers^^ cause I also have these questions

Seemed like a big elune nerf

[merry quest]

new alt?

[near glacier]

Mine is a new one. 250ilvl just pretty much fully geared myself from the delves

[merry quest]

spire

[near glacier]

Sounds good ty. What am I looking for there? Kind of new to midnight I haven’t done many m+ yet

Trink neck looks like

Although I do have puzzle already

[merry quest]

just exhaust the entire loot pool with rerolls

[slim tinsel]

do we play in any way into 4set? jus started on bear and the 4set seems like pretty poop for no apex m+ since we don't really use maul

[shy berry]

https://discordapp.com/channels/114145367322394624/121880935951106048/1504735287719493723

I asked the same thing

apparently better to not turn into it unless it gives better stats (haste, but that caused an argument)

[noble ledge]

Too lazy to have different stats for Raids and M+, but if you want to target specific stats I guess you can just skip 4set

I don't really see the problem either

[quartz burrow]

Both are fine, but min maxxing, 2 set is better for m+ since you can make the other 2 items give you stats you want

[slim tinsel]

So running only 2 set for pure m+ is fine?

[noble ledge]

I think so yes

[quartz burrow]

I would say so, yes, but for raid i would run 4 set

[mystic ferry]

hi! how good is symbiotic relationship? do we have data on it?

[noble ledge]

So I tested last week and for one reason or another during my CDs I was able to dish out massive healing on target

Probably slamming FR on purpose + all the trickle healing from EF just stacked up but I seen like multiple 30ks pop on my screen on my partner while they were taking free hits from enemies, a lot more than I expected, but overall dungeon healing was very little and most of the time it made 0 difference

And that's last week

Have not tried it this week

And couldn't figure out what made that happen

[mild island]

for the M+ build should i be simming in ST or AOE?

[noble ledge]

Its probably not a bad point but I can't tell you how much it really helps

[hallow storm]

is the no apex build still the best?

[noble ledge]

Pretty sure AoE as that's what it excels at, most of your DMG is aoe pad anyway

[mild island]

Hmm so like 2 min aoe 8 targets?

[noble ledge]

🗒️🐛💦

err uuh.. @edgy merlin Help

I feel like there is a lot of variables for the sim you can run so I bet 8 targets 2 minutes is like reasonable?

Probably not my place to answer that one though

[olive hare]

8 Targets seems reasonable. I use 90 secs for AoE sims to not have a 2nd carn activation since you'd most likely not use it at the end of a pull. (Sims have some encounter lenght variance built in to account for slightly different killtimings at bosses. 1:30 Eliminates the chance to get another carn out for the most part)

You could also disable the encounter lenght variable, but I always forget the string

[quaint pond]

if you want to sim m+ you can approximate with dslice

if you want to get more accurate use dungeonroute

[rustic spade]

there is prolly a FaQ i cant find, but why does starsurge not show up on dmg meters?

[lone flare]

chat - what route do you prefer for maisara, right at start or left, for PUGs in particular if that matters to you

[lone flare]

if you mean the EC starsurge, I think it's considered a part of thrash damage

but don't quote me on that

[rustic spade]

right side.

[quaint pond]

ya for w/e reason blizz dev decided you didn't need to see that surge damage broken out

so they just merged it into thrash

for this and many other reason the in-game meter is kind of useless. if you want to do any sort of analysis you need to look at logs

[lone flare]

isn't it a relatively okay overall representation?

[hazy mural]

it also lies as well

big up ur overall damage a lot

healing absorbs count twice as much on healing so it skews that

[lone flare]

hm i see

my +15 maisara I just did, in-game meter - dps: 151k, 146k, 141, 93k, 43k (3x dps, me, healer) , log - 138k, 133k, 129k, 85k, 40k

for me and the healer it's pretty accurate I guess

adn the main difference is in attribution of dps I assume, (the augmentation problem), we didn't have aug here but some things still count I think?

like mark of the wild, lust, monk debuff, etc.

pretty poor showing for me tho lol I usually do better in maisara on DPS

[hazy mural]

smooth runs beats dps anytime for me

cause can sacrifice some dps to make the run go much faster and smoother too

[lone flare]

yeah it was a very buttery smooth run

+2d the key, only one death cus the paladin wasn't paying attention to the big hand explosion things on teh bridge and got one bopped

well two-bopped technically, I think it coincided with a shield exploding

[fossil burrow]

Is there a clear consensus if the crafted silvermoon agent pieces with arcanoweave is better than myth6 pieces? Is the arcanoweave proc that valued to lower item level from 289 to 285?

[lone flare]

you generally want 2x arcanoweave on small pieces

general recommendation is cloak and wrist was it? (I honestly don't remember)

for those slots, yes, the crafted arcanoweave does make up for the ilvl difference generally, when it comes to DPS

you do indeed have a little less stamina

and crafted myth weapon can totally carry you until you get a normal myth weapon which is ever so slightly better (but that still opens up 2x arcnoweave slots)

[hazy mural]

cloak and bracers are ur best slots for embellishments

because they have less stats on em so u dont lose much for the crafted ilvl loss

[fossil burrow]

Idk if the wowgg site is up to date but the top guy even have the legs as silvermoon, so that's why I was so confused since it's a big piece. And can't really sim for loss of stamina and tanky feeling

[hazy mural]

they probably didnt get legs to drop for a long time

[fossil burrow]

If I understand correctly it was supposed to be belt and wrists ?

[hazy mural]

belt has higher stats iirc

[lone flare]

I'm using feet, wrists and amulet rn, with wrists and feet being arcnoweave, just slots I had to fill cus I wasn't getting drops of high track

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[hazy mural]

yep

but in this new w orld of myth dropping like candy, can deffo target the weakest slots now

[fossil burrow]

Allegedly dropping.

[lone flare]

I mean, you can guarantee them xD

[hazy mural]

my priest alt literally only has shoulders left to get for full myth xD

0 raiding done btw

[lone flare]

I'm still missing helmet, pants, one ring and both trinkets

but am feeling pretty okay about my gear I guess, 285 equipped rn

will probably use voidcore thingies on my hero trinkets for the time being? idk xD

cus it's only weapons and trinkets right

[odd cave]

yeah

[olive compass]

yea my druid only started gearing tuesday and its 284 with like 3 items still needing to be upgraded, missing maybe 4 myth track slots total

[high path]

it's not for healers

specifically anytime there's healing absorbs

they count for double

[lone flare]

I meant DPS-wise for me and the healer

[high path]

there's tons of issues with it

[lone flare]

but fair

[hazy mural]

mage was doing 180k hps on 1st area of Seat

[high path]

i think wowhead had an article that wasn"t clickbait garbage for once summarize all the issues with it

[hazy mural]

cause they got the absorb

[high path]

that's cause of the debuff

ye

so stupid

[lone flare]

no way lmao

[high path]

it's cause the debuff converst hp to absorb

so technically

[lone flare]

riiiight right

[hazy mural]

that absorb is like ur whole hp or more so healing it off nets u ton of hps xD

my hps looks stupid high there for thast reason... but yh I dont even know if they know how to fix it

[fallen isle]

is the dreamgrove rotation updated?

[noble ledge]

Is Thorn Bloom in GCD?

Haranir Racial

[quaint pond]

awkward 0.5s gcd

[noble ledge]

Probably not worth thinking about?

[quaint pond]

idk if anyone ever tested

[carmine sandal]

It's probably dps neutral for bear

But it does decent group healing

[fallen isle]

does forestwalk work with dreamguide auto regrowth

[fallen robin]

Yes.

[lyric wraith]

would you flask crit here?

[rustic spade]

is there a way to not track the lunar beam buff on the CDM cuz its already tracked on the buff bar?

[brave raft]

any 21-22 key players here, I'm wondering if I should haste flask or versa flask. Haste flask would put me around 1200 haste, without is like 1030

[grand plinth]

I'm not sure if its baseline but I know cooldown manager centered has the option for it

[grand plinth]

I would just sim tbh, the difference is not going to be noticable on your survival

[lone flare]

Probably, yes

[lone flare]

Remove it from the buffs grouping, only keep it on the cooldown grouping

[lone flare]

Probably sim

[lone flare]

Actually wait, hmmm, it doesn't behave like this for me... Weird, I'm not sure

[lone flare]

In context of this - are racial stat buffs additive or multiplicative, I assume additive but I don't know for sure, multiplicative makes more sense in my head

[quaint pond]

depends on the buff

[mossy sundial]

wheres that remove corruption list

[lone flare]

Depends how? The 1% crit, 1% vers for example are probably plainly additive?

[rustic spade]

this worked perfectly

[quaint pond]

crit and vers are. haste is multiplicative

[lone flare]

Interesting

[lone flare]

I'm not sure what you're asking for.... List?

[mossy sundial]

yes

[lone flare]

Like what you can dispel or what?

[mossy sundial]

yeye

[lone flare]

Well, do you not see the party list icons?

Generally two approaches, can hide stuff you can't dispel plainly

Or you go by the icons, I think addons can do visuals based on the same flags as the icons

[ivory glen]

Do yall ever shift into moonkin for convoke or hotw?

Sounds fun

[lone flare]

On aoe, yes

And only for hotw

If I'm running convoke it's with red moon, and you're fishing for red moon, so bear

[lone flare]

Which raid frames addon do you use, cus the default ones use these icons and borders for debuffs

You can dispel poison and curse

[brave raft]

Well I dunno, I feel like the haste would give me slightly more rage regen and LB uptime, which would be huge

[grand plinth]

Then ya run the haste flask if you like how that feels

Theres not really an objectively correct answer

[wild kite]

any rule of thumb as to how much ilvl arcanoweave is worth?

[turbid iris]

Hey guys, just leveled a guardian. What dungeon is the highest value to send voidcores for gear? Need pretty much everything. Algethar seems pretty good

[olive compass]

WRS probably

[olive compass]

sim it

[hasty granite]

Hey guys, I've been watching a guide on the current EC gameplay (basically spam Lunar Beam, Trash and Moonfire) , does this mean our tier set bonuses are completely obsolete ?

[wild kite]

4pc yes, 2pc is grand

[hasty granite]

oh right didn't notice MF has its own buff

thx

[olive hare]

even 4pc has its use, you still (should) use maul on 1 or 2 targets.

[hasty granite]

ok thx !

[broken sable]

Hi, sorry theres probably a Channel or smth which explains my Question and im just too blind to see
But ive seen some People say that Bear is pretty good in M+ rn
Which Build do i run?

[olive compass]

pretty good is a bit of an understatement its the meta tank

i suggest you go on raider io and just copy the builds from the highest timed keys using bear

[broken sable]

I thought that was Brewmaster because its the only Tank consistently surviving High Keys?

[olive compass]

been 2-3 weeks since brew has been replaced

[broken sable]

Oh wow
So youre telling me that i just basically wasted my Time Lvling my Monk because Bear is just superior now?

[olive compass]

its not a waste if you had fun

but yes

im not getting invited to 21s as brew anymore

[broken sable]

Also i looked at the Build from Andymeow and i wondered
Are the Apex Talents Shit for Bear?

[olive compass]

its just the no apex build

you can play apex but it'll be different

[broken sable]

Dystinct Earthen Skyriding👍

[broken sable]

Can you explain why its better to run it without Apex?
I havent checked if theres anything on YT about that yet tho

[olive compass]

its just two buttons

[lone flare]

It's not necessarily better or worse, it's generally simpler which is why some people prefer it, less buttons to press

[olive compass]

easier to play means you can focus on other stuff

[lone flare]

I don't like it personally, so I play with apex

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[broken sable]

Wait what
How

[calm vapor]

Thrash, moonfire

[broken sable]

How can you tank with 2 Buttons

[calm vapor]

with ironfur spam

[lone flare]

It's not really two buttons lol

[olive compass]

basically is

[broken sable]

Yeah i know that
But i come from Warrior Tanking
And (idk if I'm playing him wrong then) if i dont use half my Keyboard to Tank then i die

[broken sable]

I suppose keep Moonfire active on all Enemies, Trash to Build Rage and Ironfur to dump rage?

[calm vapor]

Thrash on cd

[lone flare]

I mean, I don't see how that happens, you maintain shield block and use excess rage on ignore pain xD

[calm vapor]

moonfire spam until thrash is available

[broken sable]

Sounds like i suck and use my Panic Buttons too early... Good to know thanks

[sick fern]

I personally like the apex-less build with raze that Brybear linked.

[broken sable]

Thats... Interesting
Thank you

[worn pumice]

Hi everyone

Could I have some feedback on this Mythic Plus build and whether its outdated.

Last week I did mad dps and great healing with that build. I did like a +13 with no problem. Now this week the build seems sort of outdated and i do not do much dps and my selfhealing is shit again somehow

[olive compass]

looks fine you probably played worse

[grand plinth]

I mean bear did get nerfed between now and then

[hasty granite]

I'm a bit lost with single target rotation with the EC no Apex build, feel like I don't do any damage xD

[arctic zenith]

(u do no dmg) xD

[vagrant ocean]

hey guys

should u run DOC?

[hazy mural]

what is ur st dps looking like?

[vagrant ocean]

thrash on cd lunar beam on cd sundering roar cd moonfire filler

[hazy mural]

it could look like ur doing no damage cause ur dps do a lot of damage

[hasty granite]

I'm just catching up with guardian, barely played it, seen a YT which only mentioned aoe gameplay

[hazy mural]

the AOE prio is basically same as ST too, keep LB on CD, keep Thrash on CD, fill time with MF

[hasty granite]

that what I had seen, so no mangle or maul even on ST ?

[hazy mural]

without the talents for em, u dont really wanna use em

mangle u can use if u need some dirty rage

but to mangle a lot, its better to go with Soul of the forest and moonless night

then u wanna mangle a lot more

[hasty granite]

very clear, tyvm !

[hazy mural]

np!

[hoary epoch]

hi all, is losing tankiness the only downside when prioritizing mastery > vers?

[quaint pond]

no mastery is more passive defense than vers. what you can lose by doing arbitrary prioritization like that is dps

[fossil burrow]

Isn't vers our second highest prio after haste? And mastery our last ?

[quaint pond]

no

vers hasn't been better than mastery for defense since DF

sometimes vers is better than mastery for dps and vice versa but you can just sim that

[fossil burrow]

oh my bad, since both wowhead and icy said the same thing i just automatically assumed it

[quaint pond]

guides are sometimes just outdated

the upside of stats not really mattering for tanks is the "wrong" stats also don't really matter

as long as you're not dropping ilevel

[ivory harness]

Guys, is it worth damage wise to press mangle when it procs instead of normal moonfire (no proc)

[fossil burrow]

i lowkey always press mangle, even if it procs or not

more rage = more incarn

[ivory harness]

makes sense

[fossil burrow]

but you technically can get by, by just pressing moonfire, for EC

[ebon saffron]

Is there a reason we take fluid form? or just because theres nothing else?

[quaint pond]

getting back into bear form after hotw

[ebon saffron]

cani not just press form?

[quaint pond]

thats 0 dps

[restive panther]

is red moon a must for Raid build?

[serene lion]

Hi, quick question. I had a resto druid that I now want to convert to guardian. I'm level 80 and want to do timewalking, will I have problems since no agility or can I just do it?

[oblique moat]

it shouldn't be that big of a loss not to run fluid if you really want to pick something else

[ebon saffron]

im premade with a disco so innervate and symbiotic are rly usefull

isnt fluid just 1 mangle cast every 2 min?

[oblique moat]

from what i've heard here symbiotic is not really worth it

[hazy mural]

its a good idea to use SOTR and MN if ur pressing mangle tbh, it goes well with the playstyle

[forest flume]

Soul of the.... Roar?

[oblique moat]

sword of the rings

[hazy mural]

clearly shield of the righteous! keep up!

if bears dont slam their shields, are they bearing?

[forest flume]

i went to try mythic mana-forge, we were 3, and it seems they havent fixed it where if I die whilemind controlled, i cant do anything lol

On Salhadaar, that is

[wooden flame]

Hey everybody! With Elunes Chosen, our Thrash damage, and most of our damage by extension becomes arcane damage, which is considered magic damage, so why do we take the talent that increases our physical damage done, instead of the talent that increases our magic damage done?

Picture is location of the talent!

[forest flume]

In the pins there is an explanation

#guardian message

[wooden flame]

Thank you very much, I should have checked pins as per usual xD

[forest flume]

np, is a common question

Tooltips are often confusing

[wooden flame]

Follow up on that, will my damage be amplified by a DH buff? If Im doing all arcane damage, I should be getting amplified right?

Or is it similar where Im getting buffed by warrior and monk buffs?

[quaint pond]

no, those debuffs are the very few cases where damage type matters

[wooden flame]

Okay, so DH buff is the one I want for EC build?

Cool

[cold oracle]

would you guys play these 2 mythic track trinkets or would you swap the prism for a hero track gaze?

[olive hare]

Warrior shout is better, but hey why not have both

[quaint pond]

warrior not allowed it's not meta illegal to take

[olive hare]

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-ackchyually-actually-gif-11156171

Arms is meta. Kind of.

@cold oracle Best way to determine it is to sim it. The APL is updated to properly work with no apex bears.

[abstract raven]

lol 😂

[abstract raven]

It is in Phys comp

[lone flare]

I think with ec apex/kb I still get more value out of fury of nature 1 point than I do moonless night

which borderline feels wrong

but that's what sims say too

so now I don't know

[lone flare]

that was meant to be a response to this

[hazy mural]

thrash op xD

but with nopex, ur fighting with SR vs MN so its not too bad to remove SR at least

[lone flare]

I suppose yeah

[trim plaza]

moonless just kinda needs SotF to work

[lone flare]

I have sotf!

and dungeon slice still sims fury of nature higher

[wispy depot]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AnkCXQGJK3MHfL7V anyone can explain how i died to devouring tyrant despite their being none alive ? in the MT 19

[ivory harness]

What should I swap for those two?

[void magnet]

bro sensed you were doing too well from below the floor and had to nerf you

[vernal fog]

Druids should get a lust

[trim plaza]

sundering->moonless night and Ursol warding or reinvigoration->soul of the forest

[serene lion]

Guys how do you track iron bark stacks etc now that we don't have WAs?

[wild kite]

you mean iron fur?

[serene lion]

Yeah sorry

Ironfur

[cloud mantle]

the stock cdm thing seems sufficient enough

oh it's at 3 stacks and 5 seconds? it's gonna be 2 stacks in 2 seconds

like depending on what you play, there's two scenarios

1, you play claw: you spend your rage on ravages and rest on ironfur

2, you play EC: you spend your rage on ironfurs because the lobotomy spec is still viable

[proper slate]

the in game thing with the timer bar... make it huge... move it somewhere prominent

[still locust]

Check this #1463934154935894128 message

[serene lion]

Tysm

[misty crane]

Is there a bug or a reason my bear form is canceling after shifting into bear form.
Log: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/147Tbr39jLqaPyKC?fight=last&start=251986274&end=251991556&type=auras&source=337&view=events

I cast bear form, 1 second later my character shifts out and I have to cast it again. Happens multiple times per key between pulls

[cloud mantle]

I assume you are not spamming the key?

[misty crane]

No, you can check the casts in the timestamp

[cloud mantle]

yeah I saw the timestamps, there's just a small spellqueue where if you spam the key you can accidentally hit it more than you mean to

but that seems unlikely in this situation

[rustic kestrel]

whats your keybinds look like when you're in bear form

[misty crane]

100% not pressing it or spellqueueing it. bear form is 3 and in bear to shift out is V

[copper hornet]

you need to disable hold-casting

[merry quest]

just looking at this makes it look like either:

1. you have a cancel form macro somewhere
2. you're pressing bear form too much and its leaving form

[merry quest]

this could 100% be it

[copper hornet]

its a bug with that option enabled

[rustic kestrel]

click and hold casting was an old bug that would happen

[misty crane]

ill try this

[rustic kestrel]

didnt think it was still around

[misty crane]

Thank you

[copper hornet]

even if you just press the button once, it can happen

annoying bug

[merry quest]

i legit forget that option even exists

[copper hornet]

its not called 'hold casting' strictly, so will have to use some context clues

i forgor the exact name

[marble wraith]

How are you guys playing npx 2nd boss? specifically when adds spawn and u get the tankbuster. Feel like im so close to dying everytime. And most times the tank buster comes out it absolutely shreds

[lucid arrow]

should always have a def to press on the tankbuster

[copper hornet]

im just gonna trust that i solved the bear form problem

[lucid arrow]

do u guys keep doing the 'easy' routes in pugs even at higher keys (past 16)?

or go for the top routes

[limber current]

16-19 can be a little safer than the 21-23 routes. If your having a hard time timing with few or no deaths then you gota try to make ur route faster or chain pull more agresively

Or ur dps suck as most dps do

[lucid arrow]

nah but i do have issues with people asspulling all over the place

this pack comes to mind

even tho ur not supposed to pull that even in the easy route but anw

and people not pressing defs and dying etc so i was wondering if the top routes are significantly more optimal

or i just make the pug life easier by going easy routes and worry about route changes when i have to squeeze out those extra seconds to time on 0 deaths

[lyric wraith]

why does this maisara route feel so slow on 20? timed under by 1:30 but feels slo

[lucid arrow]

the main gain on this is pull 6 ig so it feels like you're slogging in order to speed up that room

[lyric wraith]

hm

is that the wrong idea?

[lucid arrow]

should be fine, im doing a similar route now after swapping from the older one

i remember spending forever in that room on pull 6 on the other routes and now its pull and done so thats where all the time saving is going

[lyric wraith]

yeah, we pulled all at once, albeit it did die ab it slow

[lucid arrow]

thats why you lust that mf

[lyric wraith]

I see some timesaving if I make pull 1 double headhunter, and change pull 7 to also do the bound defender

the bound defender gets buttpulled half the time in 7 so might as well, it seems like a giant punching bag that just forces dps to dodge tornadoes

also means 10 doesnt need gnarldin and i can just pull into boss once casters die

just tough because of all the bears in the beginning

[lucid arrow]

there always has to be a buttpull risk so i can blame someone else if we dont time

[quartz kernel]

Can add a mammoth to the first pull with lust and skip one of the first bridge packs at the end by running down the middle with top, risky in a pug though

Might need to pull a bit more into the pull before 3rd boss though

[lucid arrow]

mammoth feels suicidal in a pug

i do mine like this

[lyric wraith]

yeah mammoth is super free/huge

but dangerous in a pug

[lucid arrow]

but pull 2 is buttpull galore

[lyric wraith]

is that like a phys comp route?

[lucid arrow]

nah its kinda like the route here https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/kxnZVqyTfp4rMYHK?fight=27 but changed to be more pug friendly

tho your keys are higher than mine so pay me no mind

[abstract raven]

Bears are freeeee count

[misty crane]

that fixed it 👍

[stiff phoenix]

So EC heals through arcane damage. What is dotc able to do similarly to that? Or is it just more damage.

[grand plinth]

DOTC has 15% dr on everything with pretty good uptime

and they heal for 5% max hp every mangle

Which can be nice cause it doesnt need high target count to work like thrash EC does

Which makes DOTC more flexable on ST encounters

[lament dock]

I've never had a group not butt pull on pull 2

[stiff phoenix]

Oh cool, I’ll give it a go again. I was worried it would feel weak comparably

[glossy wraith]

is there a macro i can use for heart of the wild? to like get into cat form and then cast it? the one i tired to make did not work

[quaint pond]

you can't do it in one press no. but you can castsequence it

[stiff phoenix]

Cat form has different bars so you can just use your normal cat form button, and then make feral frenzy whatever your normal 1 equivalent is. For me it’s Q.

[grand plinth]

Naw tankiness it feels the same or better imo

[quartz kernel]

this is the route i do

i think mammoth is a good early indicator on the group, they aren't that dangerous especially in lust

[golden vigil]

Are we back to just macroing ironfur to our filler and chilling mode after recent changes?

[stiff phoenix]

Anyone else make the resto to bear switch and know how much of the bis gear carries over before I try work it out?

[golden vigil]

Haven’t dusted off the forest puppy in a while but I heard it was kinda 2 button spec and it may be Time™️ for me

[golden vigil]

It’s not too bad. Depends on how high the keys you want to do are, but you can just hold a few odd off pieces of jewelry for vers like the Spire necklace. Gaze and Heart of Wind are solid trinkets still, and it’s not hard to get a good weapon. Whether or not you wanna go for some more optimized crafts is up to you I guess. But I am a SUPER casual bear flex from resto, so…grain of salt.

But one of the better bears I know has done some VERY high keys in poorly optimized gear in most seasons, so I don’t know how much stat optimization actually matters in reality

[stiff phoenix]

I think I already have vers neck, hero wep and HoW.Just need second trinket.

[fallen robin]

As Guardian? Almost negligible. Just sim for gems/enchants and you'll be fine.

[stiff phoenix]

Okay after checking not too bad for bear gear rn

Guardian (wrong enchant/socket)

Helm: Myth non bis
Neck: Hero non bis
Shoulders: Bis
Cloak: Myth non bis
Chest: Myth non bis
Bracers: 285 craft - wrong embellishment
Gloves: Bis
Belt: Hero non bis
Legs: Bis
Boots: Hero non bis
Ring 1: Bis
Ring 2: Myth non bis
Trinket 1: Hero A Tier
Trinket 2: Hero healer trinket
Weapon: Hero bis

Resto I have 9 bis slots

[quaint pond]

ilevel's what matters for armor slots

and there's no reason to purposefully grab vers

[stiff phoenix]

I'm 281 as bear and 284 as resto. Main thing is the weapon. But I need a trinket to replace void suffuser

cannot role gaze for the life of me xD

[mossy sundial]

ngl dodge every double head hunter

without a locked in team someone always ends up splat on the ground

[halcyon jackal]

natural resilience is damn OPed, idk why it's so unpopular. it acts as a semi def cd against tank bursters.

[mossy sundial]

yea i use it as one

im usually seen saving survival instincts on the poopy pulls anyway

[errant ridge]

does bear run 2/4 pce in M+?

[mossy sundial]

ye sure

you still want to maul during damage amp phases

mangle + maul are op during daamge amp since building towards next lunar beam is mute

[halcyon jackal]

anyone knows what ability is the white ball that they used to detect the real shade of the NPX last boss ?

unlike normal abilities, that white ball moved really slow

[near bough]

Snowball item

[halcyon jackal]

oh, does it has cd ?

[near bough]

Nup https://www.wowhead.com/item=17202/snowball

[halcyon jackal]

thank you

[halcyon jackal]

it seems they used huge snowball, which currently costs nearly 800g per pop

lol

[near bough]

Yeah prices really rocketed because of this tech ahhahahaha

[cinder oracle]

hey i am new to bear i am about a week in and i am having agro issues in keys and my dps is very low and i am not sure why how am i able to log review so this issue stops happening

[normal flower]

The moonfire animation works. You have this big white circle and line transferring to the correct clone.

[digital hollow]

Moonfire and Swipe don't do much for aggro, otherwise we would be the laziest tanks out there if we are not already. Thrash is your best aggro generator on a five second cooldown along with Mangle which is single target and Maul/Raze that depends on Rage. So having good timing with your Thrash is probably the most important thing you can do for aggro as a Bear. You will get used to the radius of it and when to use it.

When others get too excited and try to dps while you are pulling then that is their problem. Good timing with Thrash is the key, also learning to run from your current pack once there are only two left with low health to get a head start on the greedy DPS helps an awful lot 🙂

[graceful hamlet]

hey guys. returning player here. so i used to play guardian back in every other expension and im kinda overwhelmed by that new sundering roar talent

how do i use it properly or do i even use that?

[normal flower]

It's not a very impacting talent. Try to use on CD, ideally when at max trash stacks (3/4/5 depending on flashing claws).

It resets trash CD so sometimes it can be useful for threat on pull.

[north ridge]

Yo im sure you guys have said this a million times before but Im dumb and cant figure it out. Is there a way to see incarn's coodown when I still havent used wild guardian? Pretty much to line up four echoes back to back to back to back

[graceful hamlet]

shall i consider that spell with my incarnation and wait for 5 stacks before using it or is it whatever=

or can i just swap it out

[lone flare]

no, generally not worth delaying incarn for that at all

you mostly use it for just an extra thrash

that's really it

I typically recommend against taking it

it's really not good

[graceful hamlet]

well i thought if everyone is using it imma take it aswell

but i just couldnt understand why everyone is using it

its so underwhelming

[normal flower]

Because on the non apex build trash is basically all of your damage

So whatever boosts it is better than the rest

You can min max it but there is not a lot of benefits. I like it for threat with a trash reset during gathering when incarn is not up

[graceful hamlet]

so it has a good use for another purpose

[lone flare]

I mean, yeah, as I said, it's almost entirely used for a thrash cd reset

[graceful hamlet]

okay thanks. i will go with killing blow for now tho

[unreal dome]

is bear rotation still the same after the changes? Moonfire+thrash only?

[cobalt quarry]

Hey, do you guys have any useful macros for Bear Tanks?

[jaunty dragon]

Hi everyone I am trying to max more damage and I feel my output is a little low , would love if someone could review my log and give me some tips to pump more damage https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RZrDf98NyqWQ6w1F?fight=6&type=damage-done&source=191

[lone flare]

https://www.dreamgrove.gg/blog/guardian/compendium has some useful ones, scroll down to macros section

[lone flare]

nothing changed rotationally with the thrash nerf from the 12th may

play as you did prior, depending on which build you're using

[lone flare]

missing a good fifth of your sundering roar casts, I can't have a look right now whether or not you're using it to reset thrash correctly but that could be one of it

also your thrashes and lunar beams strike me as low for the amount of moonfire you're pressing and the run length, I play apex and KB and in a +15 I did a bit ago I have only 14 less thrashes than you (when I don't take sundering roar, and the run was nearly 3 minutes faster) and only 27 less lunar beams (when I don't spam moonfire at all)

I would need to compare with an apexless pit of saron log to know for sure, but that's first impressions

[tall basin]

yo guys!
i saw our most healing should comes from ursoc's fury.
but...
i heal the most with natural resilience. does this mean i press frenzied to much and i should press ironfuror more ah hope for healer heals me or what?^^

[unborn dock]

Where did you see that ursoc's fury should be the top healing?

As long as you are alive you are pretty much doing it well

[lone flare]

they're not that different in most logs from each other, I wouldn't worry about it

it's possible it's a sign you're not doing as much damage as you should be

make sure to spam thrash on cooldown

[lone flare]

it typically is in a lot of logs

for apex/raze build it's very notably highest

[tall basin]

andy's nexus 22

[lone flare]

for apex-less/trash+Mf spam - it's still typically highest

just by not as much

[tall basin]

ye i use maybe sometimes moonfire 1-2 times to often while trash cd is up. got you

[unborn dock]

I mean it's ok to compare logs, but I'm pretty sure his pulls are bigger than yours, his healer is better than yours. The most important is staying alive, how you do it is not really relevant.

[tall basin]

we played the same pulls^^

[lone flare]

I mean, JUL is generally right - as long as you're alive it is generally fine, but yeah, can always work on improving 🙂

(true for me and everyone really)

[hazy mural]

healers make a huge difference... if u trust in ur healer u generally use less FR and the shield that comes from it and u just trust ur healer to keep u alive past that

[tall basin]

0 trust in the healers XD

[lone flare]

awww why so

i feel pretty damn safe with mistweavers in particular

and priests and, perhaps ironically, pres evokers xD they usually REALLY know their stuff

shamans make me sweat the most 😅 I'm not really sure why

[hazy mural]

same!

[lone flare]

so wait, does that mean you don't trust yourself

[hazy mural]

problem is I am a healer first and the things I see healers do...

biggest one is not doing dps tbh

I cant trust a he aler who dosent do dps

[tall basin]

Mhm…
I play sometimes with a monk healer. We both discord he flames me everytime wenn i die and he says „call when you need something“
Ok next dungeon i call: „yo i have nothing i need something“ he says: „ye i have nothing too, let‘s hope and pray“ everytime 😂😂😂

[hazy mural]

cause it means they got 0 confidence

[lone flare]

xD I see lol

[hazy mural]

1 heal?

[lone flare]

yeah, this really seems to be the sign of a good healer

[hazy mural]

like u dont have to dps in a super healing intensive situation, but when everyone is relatively safe and they doing 500 dps...

cause some proc happened that they had no control over

[lone flare]

maybe when they see the mdi they'll learn that healers should be doing DPS

obviously it's different in PuGs compared to the MDI

but yeah

i think many healers think they don't have to do DPS (but also I don't understand how they can just....run around and do nothing in low damage situations)

[hazy mural]

its more of a state of mind for em, I feel... like u do dps when ur bored cause the healing dosent tickle ur brain... if low healing needed is tickling ppl's brains, they cba to press damage gcds for some reason or they scared they will be caught with their pants down if they do

which makes it scary for me that im being healed by someone who dosent know what mechanics are coming up

[near bough]

Ur right but if U look at the top Resto logs for example it's like 16 to 20k dps out of 890k+ group dmg which is not even 2%. Get what U saying tho

[hazy mural]

its more the idea of the application tbh... if they always be casting something good, sometimes that will be dps gcds cause pressing healing gcds would be overhealing at that point. Druids also got the 3 pct dam amp on everyone giving em free dps tbf

[near bough]

Yep I'm with you. Using pugs as an example tho it's probably more beneficial for the success of key to overheal than dps. Speed is gained from pull tempo

I've only done up to 18 tho so I'm probably just stupid

[hazy mural]

yh... I think they tryna do whats best for em atm but it scares me cause I then know they are not confident xD

my dream as healer in M+ is to get grey parses everytime

but sometimes tank or ppl make life hard and I have to heal

[fiery yew]

Is this pull troll on +20? It hurts the most

(pull after 3rd boss skyreach)

[near bough]

Hardest pull in the whole instance swear

[fiery yew]

yuppp

and don't really want to do risky skip route with pugs

thinking of blasting the solar elemental first and then chainpulling

[hazy mural]

find urself a healer that heals u

[near bough]

Perhaps it's a split pull if cds were blown end of 3rd boss

[hazy mural]

sounds stupid, but a lot of healers dont feel the pain u do

but even with good kiting ccs etc that pull hurts so much

[near bough]

Btw the bleed on group and stacks on tank it's kinda farkd

[hazy mural]

so need healer to help u out a lot

[fiery yew]

noone realizes the bear struggle in those keys tbh lol

[near bough]

Makes sense only like 5 mobs

[hazy mural]

on my 19, I had a resto sham who gave me 2 20k worths of healing surges and like 2 earth shields or so

[fiery yew]

ye and ive only encountered like 1 mistweaver that times cocoons well

[hazy mural]

also the bleed guy is there so they also tryna keep ot hers alive through the bleed

and the ppl with bleeds arent using defs I bet

[near bough]

I think when bleed is up that's the time to cc and kite

But honestly I just pray 😭

[hazy mural]

SR is a tough dungeon for bears for sure

a ton of th e damage cant just be mitigated with the IFs and its not trickling damage, feels like burst xD

[fiery yew]

yeah on brew i never had to drop the fiery dot stacks lol

[river fjord]

guys what is the current rotation of guardian druid

it is really moofire trash combo ?

[minor nest]

does anyone have any tips for seat first boss with no monk to ring of peace the adds during the suck in? i can ursols every other but its still sus if we don't kill any adds

[spice nebula]

I’m wondering the same.

[noble ledge]

Still suspicious if you don't kill any adds

🔍 🐛

[sharp gale]

if u can CC them it's fine, hunter trap, monk paralyse, entangling roots etc all work to keep them in place for the suck in
but if boss fight goes on for long enough then u gotta kill some adds at least

[hazy mural]

get a priest and all ur problems go away

dominate mind makes 1 of em kamikaze when controlled, and its 30 sec cd

and priest also has shackle for another one

[small smelt]

guys im a bit too stupid.. got my druid to 90 and got 9 bonusrolls. got no myth items so far. what is the best dungeon to roll so i get max value (different drops, stuff i can use (ignore stats i guess) every dungeon has some stuff i dont "want" so i cant decide

[trim plaza]

windrunner spire is best 100% for a fresh character

[small smelt]

both trinkets playable from there? what do i want overall if i dont have access to mythic trinkets?

[brazen tinsel]

That's a normal pull for the no skip route

And it's not on your healer to keep you alive there

You need to reset stacks and press defensives properly

[hazy mural]

think its on everyone to help there tbh... u can kite urself like 2 maybe 3 times but then ur out of ccs and if ur healer never heals u, its tough af to stay alive... if the blade guy dosent die quick, ur just in constant danger too, so need whole party to be on their game

[lucid arrow]

i chainpull this

guaranteed wipe for pugs

[hazy mural]

problem is timer

[lucid arrow]

i feel like at this point timer will tell you to chain or not

if you have enough time to chain you chain, if not you have to yolo pull it all anyway

[hazy mural]

if ur timer is super fine, then ur group should be able to do it too or its low enough lvl

[trim plaza]

mostly u have so much time there u can just kill those 2 alone

before moving forward

[trim plaza]

feather and heart of wind both are nice for bear

[hazy mural]

only done up to 19 on it but deffo didnt feel like u could split up that pull

[trim plaza]

u can buy alot of time from start doing huge pulls

[hazy mural]

think it all comes down to the dps

if u got sick dpsers then anything is possible

[trim plaza]

y

[hazy mural]

and u can do that pack anyways cause they can burn down mobs fast

[sharp gale]

wait what does this mean, what does dominate mind do to it?

it just explodes on its own?

[hazy mural]

it runs to the boss and blows up xD

and does little damage to boss

[sharp gale]

wouldn't the boss wipe the group then?

[hazy mural]

its ur friend

so it does damage to any1 not ur friend

[sharp gale]

huh

[hazy mural]

so the boss and the adds around the area

[sharp gale]

would that break the cc on the other adds then

[hazy mural]

it dosent

[sharp gale]

dang

[hazy mural]

its just op haha

[sharp gale]

emailing my friend who rerolled from priest to mage to now hunter immediately

[hazy mural]

holy priest finally meta for seat

forget disc exists

they are not real ppl

[sharp gale]

oh yeah she played holy

[hazy mural]

based

[hazy mural]

uploading the run so can see how its done... its so awesome how much headache it saves

[unkempt adder]

wherre can i get some guidance for t anking in raids

[half surge]

logs mostly.. but also playing raids would give u an experience u will remember (i hope)

i find it easy to play raid in m+ build (EC)

[unkempt adder]

i am finding the none m+ build very confusing

[rustic spade]

whats the best hero crest farm rn?

[hazy mural]

if ur tanking and are decent at it, can do +8s for max hero crests possible

[red knoll]

You should not be doing raid in no apex build

Thats griefing

[red knoll]

Ritual sites by a mile

[ivory harness]

which tier are you guys doing sites?

[red knoll]

i think 5 gives the most crests

[elder obsidian]

Ursol's Warding counts armor from IF?

[noble ledge]

Yes

[wild kite]

heart of the wild worth using in cat form for a ST dps increase in m+?

or it is still not worth even using for dps vs more moonfires

[olive hare]

Hotw is a noticable ST increase, yes. Also, dont use it in st only, every thrash pull has one or more prio targets worth dumping it into.

[halcyon jackal]

my hardest pull of this season

worse than 7 shadowguard 1st pull in NPX

[halcyon jackal]

it is, but there aren't many instances that you can use it.

[half surge]

i still was doing more damage than on my monk tank and it wasnt big issue of tanking as m+ build

like i did 5/9 mythic in m+ build with my guild with no issue

[spare sail]

That only means the monk is shit

[half surge]

hehehe.. maybe

but anyway i had fun doing raid in m+ build, and.. honestly i dont need to do 10000 logs

so i just say fuck raid build

[spare sail]

If you doing no apex ec in raid and you keep up with monk

He needs to wake up

[half surge]

i mean

i was comparing to my monk

me as monk

for example.. voracius

lemme pull logs

i mean im not the greatest raid tank and such

i was never pursuing good logs i just trying to get boss killed

[spare sail]

Is that mythic?

[half surge]

yes..

[spare sail]

Oh boy

[half surge]

i did 6k more dps in m+ build as bear

[spare sail]

[half surge]

than my brew

also brew was 4ilvl higher

[red knoll]

...

[half surge]

i know i know somebody might say i did waaay less dmg i supposed to do

[spare sail]

Well thats week 1 st dmg

[half surge]

but... idc enough

[spare sail]

In a fight with adds

That should say enough

[red knoll]

your group might care

[half surge]

if only i was the issue huh

not the dead guys

[red knoll]

i mean you might be

[half surge]

or some1 who didnt do anything

[spare sail]

Considering you doing half the dmg

That you should

If all dps think like that

You not killing bosses

[half surge]

i still couldnt understand how... like... i did rotation right, i used pots i used all the consumables

[spare sail]

Your build sucks for raid

[half surge]

i tried to keep all CDs up (the ox)

etc

[spare sail]

Just swap build

Dont be lazy

[primal flax]

which is the best dung for bonus roll on a fresh bear?

[half surge]

windrunner

[red knoll]

What are you planning on doing

[half surge]

then save 2 for mythic chaemerus

if u ever gonna do mythic chaemerus

[primal flax]

dungs

[half surge]

just asking - one from wowhead is good for raid or not?

[spare sail]

Can just check pins here

Not sure how updated wowhead is

[half surge]

ok i did.. still not sure what to pick

EC for raids or DOTC

if i wanna minmax

but still be somewhat tanky

[karmic thunder]

guardian tree matters more for tanky vs. dps than the hero spec choice IMO

[half surge]

still need to understand what to go for honestly

[copper junco]

EC is performing quite well ST

[karmic thunder]

it's easier too

[copper junco]

Oh what I’ve seen past week everyone be running EC

[half surge]

today we gonna try to push the paladins (5th boss of voidspire)

should i go for EC or DOTC

in rankings on wowlogs i see both plays, like 60% go DOTC and 40% EC

[brazen tinsel]

either go with what youre comfortable with or sim it

[glass coyote]

I'm reaching a pretty high point in my build right now. I get that all secondaries are useful for us, but does tinker around with their secondaries to try and hit a specific value? on Archon/Murlok I'm seeing haste ~1000, and the rest somewhere around 400-500 range. I'm debating what to flask, and if I should recraft some gear

[marble lion]

In case of a new guardian druid with 8 bonus rolls available. Would there be a specific dungeon/boss to roll em on. I get i want like mythic gaze etc but as a freshly dinged 90 doing 10s - just aim for tier pieces/wep/trinkets?

[quaint pond]

there's no specific value. you can sim for dps if you want some measurable way to compare items

[half surge]

for damage u sim, for other, just go what u are comfy with, getting more haste means more smoother rotation

crit is just for big dam numbers

master for dam/hp

and vers is a vers... +dam and -dam taken

all stats are useful

[half surge]

do windrunner

either save 2 rolls for mythic chaemerus

[sharp gale]

looking at archon/murlok 🫵 😹

[marble lion]

Or spend on windrunner, gotcha!

[half surge]

or... if unlucky send all the remaining to get mythic weapon from windrunner

[marble lion]

Thanks for the tip madness 🙂

[half surge]

windrunner has good slots

all the drops here for guardian is useful

[rustic spade]

why do we run circle of the wild over circle of the heavens?

[quaint pond]

there's a pin for it

wow tooltips lie a lot so you need some hidden third party knowledge at times

[manic turtle]

Quick question, does the passive moonfire proc from galactic guardian take advantage of the twin moonfire talent above it?
(As in, passively proccing two moonfires at once)

[copper junco]

Remember to check if the DOTC logs were before or after the nerf

[half surge]

both are kinda after the nerfs

but yeah.. after u mention that i see more of EC

yep... more EC

after i started to filter by date

till may 13 its 70 ish % of DOTC, after its EC

[half surge]

i got a question about raid build on bear

should i aim for gettin 80+ rage to spend on raze for gore proc?

or not? also when should i keep the IF

[fierce saddle]

Hello, with m+ build, how u dps on boss? (Nopex talent). Use same rota as multi target? Or include more?

[rough quarry]

hello, does someone have an exboss profile for guardian ?

[half surge]

nothing changes, mangle-moonfire-thrash

and lunar beam

u still prio to spend GCD on moonfire/mangle rather than maul

[hard gorge]

spender is just ironfur with the EC build?

[fallen robin]

In ST it is a DPS/Survivability gain to Mangle/Maul if you can effectively manage your Rage. Especially with 4p procs.

[fallen robin]

60+ for KB, waiting for 80 isn't necessary. Getting 2 Mangles to start a Red Moon window is the better part of Harnessed Rage.

[half surge]

so... we are going for paladins now should i spend rage on raze?

or still try to uptime 1stack IF

[fallen robin]

1 stack to start, if it feels unnecessary spend it all on Raze.

[half surge]

gotcha

gonna try the proper raid build then huh

[hushed ember]

This may be a supid question...is Puzzlebox just bait for guardian/tanks in general? I know every sim says its the best trinket by far, but no one plays it.

[half surge]

cuz its lazy spec, i mean im personally lazy to press this trink

and to have best dps u have to send it on CD

[fathom pollen]

At least in raids people very much do play it

[hushed ember]

Sorry I should have specified in a M+ environment

I currently have it, just keep forgetting to press it. But, if it's actually solid and I just have to remember to hit it, then I'll keep using it for now.

[edgy merlin]

in m+ it's not even the best for nopex, it's still highest dmg for apex builds but it is a pain to use and keep synced with incarn

[half surge]

heart+alngaze is great combo for passive ones

aln is bis allrounder

scale off dragons is good defensive trink but not sure if u even need it?

feather from WS is good on use trink for gigahaste

[hushed ember]

Sweet, that is what I was going for. I currently have heart at 298...just farming Gaze. Just wanted to double check.

I am trying to get feather as a placeholder for gaze

[half surge]

i got lucky last week

298 gaze with leech

[hushed ember]

holy

[hushed ember]

its beautiful 🥹

[quaint flume]

No Apex still the way tô Go in m+?

[half surge]

kinda, DOTC is being very competitive tho

depends on playstyle?

if u prefer more braindead

[tender frost]

phew

just had the worst experience in dreamrift

FOTM bear players are the worst

i like you bear mains

[half surge]

maybe u wanted to say bad tank players are the worst

[tender frost]

true

people who buy achievements too

yuck

[half surge]

have u tanked heroic paladins with pugs?

thats a yuck

yoink

[tender frost]

i have

its not that bad

i play blood so i get to purg through a miss

[half surge]

if only my monk could do so..

on bear its whatever, u have SI

ppl miss the taunt all the time..

[tender frost]

yea

question is whether you prefer bad players who are nice or good players who are rude

i like chilling but i also like killing bosses

[half surge]

neither tbh...

[tender frost]

i mean yeah obviously

@high path im taking orgo 2 next semester anything i need to study over the summer now that school is done

[fierce saddle]

Ok thanks

[high path]

idk how it's taught where yo uare

how could i possibly know

[tender frost]

sorry

:(

they dont have the syllabus yet

:sadge:

i just thought id ask

[cloud hill]

anyone have a no apex raid build

[rough quarry]

murlok.io

[cloud hill]

i dont see any raid info there just m+

[wicked otter]

Bonjour a tous il y a des francais ici ?

Hello fellow tanks,

I was wondering if you're having threat issues? A lot of Retribution Paladins are pulling aggro from me when I'm pulling... Thanks

[olive hare]

In raid youre expected to bring an apex build, no apex is too much of a dps loss

[digital hollow]

There is no raid builds there

[rough quarry]

ah sorry its m+ only

[digital hollow]

I got all excited and went there to see it lol

[vapid pendant]

hi friends, how much haste should we be running and does this change if we're using Light Company Guidon w/ Incarn?

[olive hare]

Just sim it, impossible to give generalized answer

[ashen sandal]

whats this line in the APL
actions.bear+=/maul,if=rage>=55&!talent.fount_of_strength.enabled&talent.wild_guardian.enabled

prob missing something

why would it not be 60 rage

and should it not check apex rank 3?

[lone flare]

Because it scales linearly and is already worth using above 55

[mild island]

sooo how are yall tracking barkskin since it aint in the cooldown manager?

[lone flare]

Wdym it's not in the cooldown manager

I'm pretty sure it is lol

[spare sail]

Pls dont do that

[ashen sandal]

already worth compared to what

[lone flare]

Under cooldowns, not buffs

[mild island]

yea i want to see the duration

[lone flare]

Compared to waiting until 60

[lone flare]

Yes, when you use it, it shows the duration

And only when it expires it starts showing the cooldown

[mild island]

not seeing duration at all other than a buff amongst my 10 other buffs

[lone flare]

Something is goofed on your end, I literally see it, maybe it'd an addon for me , I'm unsure

[ashen sandal]

are we saying that pressing it at 55 is better than any other button or what

[lone flare]

No, we're saying beyond 55 it doesn't matter, so the apl has it set to that

Perhaps @high path can provide further detail, but yeah, my understanding is that beyond 55 it doesn't matter when you use it

[mild island]

yeah ur right bcdm was overriding it, but its still not a trackable buff in the regular cdm which sucks 🙁

[lone flare]

I suppose yeah, I rarely track things like that so I guess for me it hasn't mattered too much, maybe blizzard adds it

[high path]

basically ye

[mild island]

it does appear you are tracking it though

[high path]

it's slightly more damage to press it at 55 because you end up pressing it more overall

(it really doesn't matter that hard tho)

[lone flare]

I think this is cooldown manager centered, I don't think I can add it to buffs from what I see

[long barn]

Is the no apex talent build only good in M+ and not raid? Sorry new to guardian.

[lone flare]

I'll have a look once I get back to PC later

[lone flare]

Yes, only m+

It kills a lot of your single target, so it's not recommended for raid

[fallen robin]

It doesn't do (very much) ST damage and overcommits to defensive uptime that you don't need for raid damage profiles.

[long barn]

Awesome thank you all!

[trim plaza]

ye apex way stronger in raid

[rustic kestrel]

its just in the cooldowns section

not the buffs section

[half surge]

paladins are dead but... having to do all the movement mechanics ruined me

this time no logs for poor bear

[ornate radish]

So with the new changes, how are we using heart of the wild?

Cat weaving it in or as a heal?

[lone flare]

Same as before, on cooldown for single target cat for damage, can be emergency heal in stress situations

[tender frost]

is the pangolin available as a bear form or only the toy

[lone flare]

Boomy for aoe

[lone flare]

Only toy to my knowledge

[abstract fossil]

Boys is it better 2 craft a 2 hand wep with bis secondary stats or use a myth track wep with crit/mast

[lone flare]

Myth track

All stats are good on guardian

ilvl (and base weapon damage) reign supreme

[abstract fossil]

Oki ty! ❤️

[red knoll]

are you using nopex again

really shouldnt be doing under 100k on that fight

[half surge]

i tried the raid build and i saw that i couldnt focus enough for fight

with new build

was paying too much attention to my action bars...

and fucked up few pulls

again we were only progressing the paladins

not rekill

and i was doing the placements of bosses for their ultimates so thus i couldnt make my incarn 100% worth

i was wasting a lot of incarn on pull and if i used it later i missed the BL

so i focused more on survivability and helping with soaks etc

i know guys u gonna go ham on me for doing it wrong but.. its how we did it

[short yarrow]

WE ARE META!!

[red knoll]

Just lucky your group lets you play what you want ig. I'd be benched if I didnt know how to play my class.

[half surge]

bro i would love to raid with such guys that know how to play and not die to a simple mechanic...

but our raid is... casual? ish?

[short yarrow]

i've only healed as a druid, does anyone know where i can figure out to learn how to druid tank as a newbie

[half surge]

low keys

get some gear and do low keys

[short yarrow]

i'm 283 as a resto 3600 io but ZERO tank experience. I am going to have literally start from key level 4-5s again

i've tried it once and got back hit and died, never touched tank again since 5 years ago

that was my only experience tanking one dungeon for 30 seconds hahah

[half surge]

Its ok

[short yarrow]

how are you supposed to get new mobs if you have to turn your back on mobs ..its' confusing to me

[onyx sonnet]

Lunar beam buffs thrash, spam moonfire to get lunar beam back as fast as you can. Spend all rage on iron fur. Cast as many thrashes as possible. Always gather with barkskin up.

[short yarrow]

hmm okay i'll try

[onyx sonnet]

I geared my bear last week after never having played it and timed 19’s and a 20 this week. I’d go watch a video on it because there is a little nuance to a few things, min maxing, some defensive stuff… but that’s the absolute basics of it. Really simple rotation atm.

[cloud jolt]

hey guys, just leveled a new guardien druid
which dungeon should i bonus roll?

[tired crow]

what's the absolute lowest cooldown for Thrash? understand it's one of those affected by haste. running some sims and its telling me to give up haste lol

[quick schooner]

Hi, today i've done my first +16 this season. Could anyone tell me what im doing wrong? From this +16 im like 99% sure there's a lot of corrections to be done and i want to know instantly cause the next 16 im playin is academy and im scared tf out of that key. I don't know what im doing wrong. Probably some swipes in icarn windows and mangles/mauls cause im packing up haste with each recraft and i still think ilike i have no thrash to click during incarns. Either i do something wrong or im lacking haste which i think is impossible cause i have a lot. Thanks in advance ❤️ https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/q6jkvZ7btxRTNBmw?type=damage-done&fight=4&by=source&source=1

[trim plaza]

bear loves all stats, i would never go full haste

even if it lowers ur trash cd, u get alot of benefits from other stats too

[tired crow]

cool - gotcha. i swapped out a haste ring for a crit mastery one. and its now 5.2s (up from 5.1s lol)

Eyes of the Eagle enchant worth running as well?

[trim plaza]

first of all, u spam WAYYY too much swipe

i have like 4 swipes max in dungeons

u always want fill with mangles and moonfires and just press trash on cd

[tepid crest]

With no apex, you’ll very rarely use swipe, mangle, or maul. You’re mainly rotating thrash and moonfire.

[rustic kestrel]

moonless night is a worthless point without mangle+raze btw

[tepid crest]

Only time you really use mangle is for rage for frenzied regen (if you have iron fur bound to thrash and moonfire) or for brez.

[trim plaza]

u can use it more often if u want

like stop this "DONT USE MANGLE" already

pls

if u want fill with it, use it

as long as u press trash on cd, u can fill whatever u like mangle or moonfire

[tired crow]

Natural Resilience worth it for M+ shield spam? or more for raids

[trim plaza]

its fine

good use to some tank busters

in bosses

example vexamus, pre casting FR gives nice shield before it goes off

[onyx sonnet]

Casting mangle, maul, swipe are all a dps loss. Maul is a maul is a loss because you’re not resetting the cd of lunar beam fast enough. Lunar beam is a huge portion of damage between itself and it buffing thrash. Only use it if you absolutely need the rage gen

[onyx sonnet]

Just plain wrong

[trim plaza]

w/e

im not starting this gain xd

[tepid crest]

I would disagree with no apex, especially in aoe. Mangle doesn’t reduce cd on beam, there is more value in moon fire. We also don’t take damage buffs for mangle to hit hard.

[onyx sonnet]

You’re sitting here giving bad advice and expecting people to agree

[trim plaza]

u can take SotF if u want, u dont lose anything to talent it

im just saying there is few talents which u can throw here and there, it doesnt end ur pushing/keys completion if u dont use mangle or use it

[tepid crest]

But the person was asking how to improve….

[trim plaza]

and i gave examples

dont press swipe, use mangle and moonfire to fill, trash on cd

problem?

[onyx sonnet]

If you’re hitting it on cd you’re going to lose 15+ casts of lunar beam which is a massive dps loss

[trim plaza]

icant

bye

[onyx sonnet]

Wasting 200+ globals to do bad damage and generate rage you almost never need

[tepid crest]

Here, this is andymeow on 23 Caverns this reset:

Mangle is very rarely going to be used with no apex.

[chrome dew]

hi first time asking here, was checking why my thrash damage was so low and i notice the Fory of Nature is not showing on my damage buffs, i do not know if that is the reason i'm so low on damage but really weird is not showing up, any other comment will be happly received, thanks!

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/XrwPdaKWvJh61Cpt?fight=5&type=damage-done&source=142

[lone flare]

okay, I can in fact track it lol

[quick schooner]

Damn i copied this build from somewhere, im not making build myself and i didnt notice that moonless night lmfao. Damn i need to rebind myself cause my thrash have 5s cd rn im out of habit clicking mangles , swipes and mauls. I have moonfire on mouse button for easier pulling from far away so i dont aggro with my ass by accident. Damn i need to rethink all my binds then. Thank you guys

[errant ridge]

Can anyone recommend a video to deep dive the current spec?

[tepid crest]

Yeah, it takes some getting use to. I have to use different binds for my no apex build vs my raid build. No apex, I have moonfire bound to 1 on my mouse. Raid build I have mangle bound to 1. It's almost like playing two different specs LOL.

[quick schooner]

Each time we get changes i feel like playing diffrent tank ffs. I had the prism from skyreach in my 1st vault this season and i didnt take it cause it was like d/f tier back then and now suddenly its good XD

[onyx sonnet]

It’s still simming below feather and heart of wind for me, but it’s very close

[hazy mural]

feel like feather oversims tbh

[quick schooner]

Rn im running hero feather + 298 gaze, im pretty much stacked. Btw its weird question but looking at raiderio or murlok.io how do we look at stats as "human" form of druid have diffrent stats then bear and im unsure how people are running. I have pretty balanced stats overall but for example im running both xenas rings and i feel like i have no haste still Cause 5s on thrash is annoying somehow

[hazy mural]

its not bad, but theres a few times where u will miss the use of it cause incarn is back quicker

[onyx sonnet]

You’re probably right, I have been thinking about switching. With it being 2 minutes and ursoc 3 I don’t think I use it enough

[hazy mural]

Ursoc?

u mean incarn?

[onyx sonnet]

Incarn, but yeah, I mean I miss it and then have to use it in the subsequent cast

[trim plaza]

Bad damage using mangle in ur rotation? Ok

Sure

[onyx sonnet]

Correct

[quick schooner]

Btw do you guys pull mobs in keys with moonfires? or more like situational for example pyromancer on MT, maybe im overlooking moonfires and i should just charge into whole packs. Probably having moonfire on 1 and thrash on 2 would help me with my adhd and clicking fucking swipes

[trim plaza]

Sure xd

[onyx sonnet]

It’s a massive dps loss because you’re not getting lunar beams out. There’s a reason no one doing good damage uses it.

[trim plaza]

Ohh now its massive dps loss

Okay

Sure again

[lone flare]

it's wild that you're so wrongly overconfident 😭

[hazy mural]

if ur far from mobs, mf is best pull and then thrash when they are near u... can also LB and then mf whilst trying to make em stay near the LB area and then thrash when they near u

[onyx sonnet]

No it’s wild that he is. None of the top logs waste globals on mangle. And yet you’re coming after me.