guardian

[midnight orchid]

my only variation so far has been aggro, and it's annoying

[vagrant ocean]

Like I have no clue when I’m gonna lose 60% of my hp with crunch armor

[midnight orchid]

i def feel like i had less aggro issues with apex raze build

[vagrant ocean]

Seems like most tanks are struggling with aggro

Same is with brew

[abstract raven]

There is a DOTC build Apex with out Raze you may like

[midnight orchid]

EC is the only one ive messed with

last season and this season, just EC

[vagrant ocean]

I think before nerf

EC just did so much damage like

And now other builds are like viable

Btw

Doesn’t guardian have like 16% dodge

But I’ve like never dodged a vile bite

Guys

I was about to pull

Soilders into boss Maisara

And someone arcane torrented

and wiped group

It was ret paladin

man

[abstract raven]

Happy give you the bulid

I like EC visually but outside of that I think this Dotc build is better on Some keys but Ima simp still playing the meme build

WS - AA - MC are the keys I'd probs play Dotc more once I get in 20s in the coming week or 2

[covert stone]

Is Elune bad for AA first pull in 20+? Feels like first lasher should die in 15 seconds with that much dps

[abstract raven]

It's more that the small adds get nuked and you lose funnel both have been played Dotc & EC yes more people play EC but I'd argue coz its so easy

Like was Sead above Bry did a Dotc 20 and the timer was way Quicker playing it over his EC kill and he put it down too funnel for the other specs

[covert stone]

Is there a way to reset the bleed stack like the monk does?

[abstract raven]

Kite? Aug disspel

[covert stone]

Kite doable? Easy as monk you just roll back to fucked up the bleed timers

I don’t play with Aug

[calm vapor]

Roar to run away

Dash works aswell

[abstract raven]

Yesh do it all the time Roar run and od Dahs as kitty

I play In phys comp so that's how I do it at least

[covert stone]

Also when you are root can we quickly change form without getting OS?

In 20

[abstract raven]

What do you mean Root

[covert stone]

Can’t move

Like the chains in seat

[abstract raven]

I don't kite in seat

[covert stone]

No

Removing the chains

By switching forms

[rustic kestrel]

dotc very clean

as ec, little more dangerous but fine

use moonkin instead of cat for that

[mossy sundial]

Ngl setting up pulls is insanely scary

[covert stone]

To get the armor? Makes sense

[abstract raven]

Don't do that man you'll fall over

[stoic zenith]

Priest can grip you out so it falls off

Aug is the other option to clear stacks

[shy berry]

yoyo sorry for noob question. Is 4 set completely useless for bear using moonfire thrash build?

[abstract raven]

Yep

[shy berry]

Thanks feel silly for converting my gear away from haste now

[rustic kestrel]

Dont be, all our stats are good, going too heavy on haste is detrimental

[fallen robin]

Don't feel silly. It's an insignificant change.

[shy berry]

Oh that's good!

Also how often are you guys pressing mangle in keys during a pull?

[uneven flame]

wait - you can do that?

that sounds so scary lol

---

Anyone got any advice on how to initiale longer pulls? feels like my team is pulling aggro way too much in my pugs but I also suspect they are hitting my pack really early

[lone canopy]

only ever because ive got fluid form to shapeshift back into bear more efficiently

but if u take sotf over brambles for whatever reason, its probs the correct button over MF in st

this might be a very path of exile brained question, but does the DH or monk debuff on enemies apply before or after our thrash conversion to arcane?

basically do we get 0 value out of monk debuff and full from dh or half and half?

[lone canopy]

make sure you're weaving thrash during the pull, and consider popping incarn before you're fully setup to get more out

also small tip, but twin moonfire only works on enemies that are in combat, so if you're pulling 2 or more mobs, consider taunting one of them and then moonfiring insta - this will social the mobs and get them in combat, so you get 2 moonfires for the price of 1

[abstract raven]

I think even at 1k hast still want more but my sims are changing

[uneven flame]

thrash works at range?

[lone canopy]

you need haste on every item, enchant and gem - and flasking for it - with either voidsong chain or eye of midnight before it falls off - and even then haste trinkets perform near the top

i think a good general rule is just always go for haste

[lone canopy]

no, but you should be running through packs you pull, don't plant and then just pull everything with moonfire and wait for it to reach you

taunt then insta moonfire to get a twin, charge/run to pack with stampede, thrash as you go through it, repeat with next pack

moonfire has a big range but don't trust that your threat will hold for the full 40 yards they travel to you with 20% movespeed slow

[fallen robin]

Just do what the sim says. Maybe it tells you more haste, maybe not.

[lone canopy]

is the apl up to date with the actual playstyle?

last i heard it was way off

for m+

[static gust]

What ilvl can i just go +10s?

And be invited

[fallen robin]

Even if it is, it is still reflective of our damage profile.

[lone canopy]

bear can do 10s at like 220-240, but to get an invite is up to the culture of your region

theres a lot of v geared people apping to 10s for farm voidcores still, so people won't be desperate to invite any tank

[lone canopy]

sorta, stat priorities will change if the apl has us casting mangle and maul versus never casting it

or prioritising any button over thrash

[static gust]

Will threat be a problem? Ahahhha

[fallen robin]

Be invited? More ilvl than the other tanks in queue. Easier to list your own key if you are sub 260.

[lone canopy]

threat only a problem if you have devourers starring new packs to maintain meta and shit before you have a chance to thrash lol

[fallen robin]

Not if you play well and DPS respects the gather

[lone canopy]

does anyone know if monk debuff has 0 effect on arcane thrash? or if its applied before the arcane dam conversion?

[fallen robin]

#guardian message

[lone canopy]

ta

[fallen robin]

Our stat priorities are never extreme enough for it to be off by a great deal. This season you're likely to end up something like 25-18-18-12 or a similar combination. Typically you're not getting as much going over whatever amount of rating is 30% haste.

[shy berry]

I timed 10s at 180 just after ding yesterday. Spammed Keyes and even timed 12 at 220

[static gust]

As tank? Jesus

You dont explode? Havent tried but lol

[tight compass]

10s are extremely easy this season, they basically dont try to kill you at all

[shy berry]

Yeah as tank, felt really good

[static gust]

Im 250-260 so noice

Wanna play feral but prob easier to farm Up crests as tank

[shy berry]

Had to get a 285 2.5kio ele shaman to chill a bit for threat but that was it

3.5k*

[halcyon jackal]

damn nerfed thrash feels so bad, I thrashed once, then a DDH with 900k spirit bomb ripped agro from me

[hard moat]

Can anyone let me know how bad this nerf hit us please

[static gust]

Smol Scratch VS genkidama

[halcyon jackal]

it's fine if you do chill pulls, at the current dps gear. Even if you pull pack by pack, and still easily time the keys. The question is whether you can hold threat with that gear

[static gust]

Thats my concern hahhaaha

[hazy mural]

u werent keeping aggro before the nerf there =/

[olive hare]

If a dps needs to send a 900k burst within the first or second global of a stacked pull, thats not a threat issue, its a design flaw and requires them to be aware of it and act accordingly. Same shit as with devestation evokers and Eleshamans.

[uneven flame]

wtf

gaze simming negative we have escaped the matrix

[tall basin]

gaze sims negative if you use puzzle box and maybe void stalker. but both of them aren't that good

or waht are you using?

[jaunty osprey]

is the dreadscale trinket good for guardian druids? or are we tanky enough without it, and just purely go for offensive trinkets?

[tall basin]

andy use it in 23er keys. so it couldn't be that bad^^

[jaunty osprey]

i got heart of wind and emberwing feather atm, which one would i be replacing if i were to use the dreadscale ?

both are myth track

[tall basin]

i would go for heart + dreadscale if you want.
feather would sim higher but you only wanted to send it with incernation. so you miss every 2 bursts.

[uneven flame]

im using mythic feather and heart of wind

mythic gaze and heroic gaze both sims -0.3 lol

[sour fox]

which trinkets would you run? I realized beloren is shit, since Im not holding the shield lol

[tall basin]

then you f* sim XD send me your char + server and i can try to sim it if you want

[sour fox]

running 19s-20s atm

[tall basin]

try to get gaze?^^
if no chance i would run in your case dreadscale
or farm windruner for heart

[sour fox]

tried this week, but no luck

Ill farm windrunner, and mby run heart and feather

but dont want double on use for now, so dunno what to run lol

[tall basin]

maybe glorius crusader is your way to go then or CoEE

[sour fox]

sounds good, will farm for heart and then run that, till then I guess its one of those with feather or dreadscale

[hazy mural]

I heard gaze is undersimming for bears... think @shut jasper said it

[shut jasper]

I said I think

not guaranteed

to confirm you'd need to go through a lot of logs (or write a script that does it)

[hazy mural]

too late! no grey in my thinking, only black or white!

[shut jasper]

[desert bough]

Does lunar beam track it's target or is it stationary from where the target was when it was casted?

[hazy mural]

stationary from where u put it on the target

[desert bough]

Thanks!

[hazy mural]

[novel fern]

btw is it safe now to main bear? no more nerfs this season?

[desert bough]

Always safe to main a spec you enjoy

[hazy mural]

only the lord (ion) knows

[desert bough]

I think only minor nerfs would come atp, it feels like they caught on the solution is to buff weaker tanks instead of nerfing stronger ones

[novel fern]

friends making me push so I only enjoy if I can survive keys and am not a burden

after the latest nerf it's still ok, did windrunner 19 faster than on my monk

[desert bough]

Tbh I haven't even noticed the nerfs, my druid went from champion to myth weapon overnight so I can't feel the dmg nerf kek

[novel fern]

I can feel it, I'm 4th on most pulls

[desert bough]

Was gonna play druid but I never liked the idea of dotc and raze spec so I played monk too until I saw the buffs

[desert bough]

Horrible

[novel fern]

on overall doing 25-40% less than dps players

without aug

my saving grace is that it's my 2nd character so bear got catapulted into 288 ilvl after playing it for 1 week

because of the myth crest achievement

[desert bough]

My monk got mega shafted on loot luck so I didn't have myth of the dawn for my bear but at least it's only 1 ilv away from getting it now

[novel fern]

same, monk got the crit vers weapon from academy on the very last bonus roll

[desert bough]

Damn that's rough

At least I know this druid is blessed because it's 1st vault had academy polearm

[narrow coral]

288 in 1 week seems a bit exaggerated 🤔 my main barely have dis with full voidforge / 4 crafts / 2 heroics / rest myth cO

[novel fern]

I had the myth crest achievement for the final 300 crests spent

I think it's super easy if you have a fresh character and do bonus rolls in windrunner and/or nexus and craft 6 pieces which you didn't bonus roll

but you have to jump straight into farming 10s with at least 1 friend

[shy berry]

I'm 244 with 4 hours played at level 90. It's crazy fast to gear fresh characters.

5 myth track too

Helm is still 189ilvl lol

[novel fern]

yep but in order to upgrade all myth track items and craft 6 items you need to be mostly optimal with crest spending

and have that myth crest achievement and use your other characters to get discount on bear items

[novel fern]

main characters are disadvantaged because of the discount for alts yep

[abstract raven]

It is one of our dps rerolled last week he's 286 now

[quartz burrow]

Every person having 2 characters had an advantage, im 290 ilvl on main while most of my guildmates are in the 286-288 range

[shy berry]

Yeah I've had a DH team mate funnelling me gear too which helps

[oblique badge]

Can we still farm the druidform " Might of the Grizzlemaw " ?
The standup bearform 🙂

[bright rain]

As a fresh Bear, what would you suggest to spend the bonus rolls on. Mythic raid is not a good option right now, since low geared.

[unreal wadi]

can someone link the moonfire / Ironfur macro?

[shut jasper]

probably send it all on spire, has both decent trinkets and a weapon

• can fill a lot of other slots

[oblique badge]

No one knows? 🙁

[bright rain]

Ty, gonna do that

[uneven flame]

i did not fuck my sim

[trim plaza]

aoe gaze MIGHT sim lower, but in st it shoots to moon

[uneven flame]

I simmed in st as well

[hazy mural]

think u can get the blight version from magetower but the OG version is gone forever

[oblique badge]

magetower is still active ?

[uneven flame]

Anyone know whwrrr to get the purple glowing bear form?

[brazen tinsel]

Ye

[oblique badge]

Fk, need to find where to go that thing.

[brazen tinsel]

Legion dalaran and then you just fly to the broken shore

[shy berry]

I wanna farm the green gorrilla one but haven't done the dragonflight main campaign and its taking ages

to unlock the emerald dream or whatever

[lucid arrow]

which bear form sims highest

[red tartan]

Trick question, it’s the pango

[noble ledge]

Pango

[shut jasper]

any of the balance of power ones

[lucid arrow]

fk

[novel fern]

green neon bear for me

[lucid arrow]

cocaine bear

[noble locust]

Anything that's a BAER

[amber ocean]

Owlbear + pango

[scarlet shore]

Guys, do you macro ironfur? And if so to what ability? Tried both thrash and moonfire but it just feels off for some reason

[amber ocean]

Do not

[scarlet shore]

Okey thank you

[amber ocean]

If your fingers start dying, there's a slight argument to be made for macroing it to either MF or Thrash, and putting the separate, non-macro'd version of MF/Thrash on your bar for bosses/prio targets, but I still wouldn't reccomend that

Little rant - finally killed mythic paladins last night. I'm mad though, cause my cotank failed the swap towards the back end of the fight, and we didn't have a CR. So I died, right as incarn came up, and was dead for a full minute of the fight...

And still parsed a 65. Which means if I hadn't died I was probably on for an orange. Sigh.

[rustic kestrel]

Insanely confidently incorrect take

[lone canopy]

aren't you bored of saying that to me over and over only to be proven wrong the next day?

you would need that in order to reach a point where haste is diminishing at the moment

with r2 flask, eye of midnight, haste enchants, haste on pretty much every item i can get it and craft, I sit just under the 1320 DR soft cap

[rustic kestrel]

The dr does not matter

[lone canopy]

you need to go very far out of your way to make haste worse than other stats

[rustic kestrel]

Haste has been worth significantly less for us this expansion

[lone canopy]

i agree, for the apex bear

it's definitively bis for memebear tho

[solemn pike]

can you parry / dodge while castig puzzlebox

[hazy mural]

nope

[lone canopy]

no, it's not viable in high keys during cb

anything below like.. 17 though, you're pretty safe just popping an SI and using it

[hazy mural]

ppl in 22s use it

its just a case of taste

if u like it, then its great for u

[lone canopy]

I mean it's not really taste - it's greed

[hazy mural]

greed?

[lone canopy]

you have to over use defensives to cast it in cb, or waste 2 seconds before pulls

[fallen robin]

The best DR is the enemies being dead

[hazy mural]

just have to be smart to use it

im not smart, so I dont use it

[lone canopy]

yeah, you only ever use pbox with incarn where you're already immortal - it has virtually no defensive value, and is just a defensive liability

[amber ocean]

What are people's go-to M+ trinkets anyway? I've been using Egg + Gloomscale (Whatever the dragon boss trinket is), but in raid I'm using box + gaze.

[fallen robin]

Gives a bunch of Mastery, our best defensive stat

[lone canopy]

as i said, you're only ever using it during incarn

where you're pumping out beams and are already immortal

[solemn pike]

gaze+gloom but i dont have a mythic version yet of the scale

[marble wraith]

Mastery also gives dmg

[hazy mural]

bis usually tends to be wind + gaze

or gloom + gaze

if u cba to raid then both WR trinkets are a good combo

[amber ocean]

Nah my egg + scale are both HC, but my box + gaze are both 298. Lol. I should probably use scale + gaze tbh

[hazy mural]

if u cant use it well, sure... but its not greed

[amber ocean]

We're unfortunately done killing myth dragons for now 🙁 No scale dropped either

[hazy mural]

its simply a can u bother to use it or not trinket... if u can bother to use it, ur rewarded with nice burst, if not, its ok

[solemn pike]

you can still get it in vault

[uneven cliff]

I’m running gaze and prism

[amber ocean]

True. it's probably the one thing I'll actually take from vault at this point. That, and the necklace from seat, which is what I'm sending my bonus rolls on anyway.

[uneven cliff]

Just because it dropped during my “roll everything skyreach runs”

[red knoll]

Is Sherlock back spouting garbage?

[lone canopy]

it's a trinket that makes you defensively weaker outside of incarn (which is when defenses matter) than using any stat stick

while also delaying pulls and threat by 2 seconds

its 100% a greed trinket

[red knoll]

Lmao

[lone canopy]

you back to insisting memebear is weaker than apex?

[red knoll]

It is

[hazy mural]

so if it makes u weaker outside of incarn, what about feather?

[lone canopy]

strong brother

[red knoll]

Numerically it just is

[fallen robin]

Eh. If you find it useful it's good, like any trinkets. Ultimately if you don't need the alternative options, using the highest damage option is very good.

[red knoll]

Sorry to disappoint you.

[hazy mural]

feather steals ur stats tho

[lone canopy]

ya same, although not quite as greedy cos your dps don't need to wait for you to cast it and/or you don't need to overuse a defensive that should be used elsewhere to get the cast off

[hazy mural]

and its a 2 min cd u use with incarn

[lone canopy]

btw I use a 298 puzzlebox, I like it lol - but it's 100% greed

[fallen robin]

It's only greed if it causes an issue.

[hazy mural]

^

[red knoll]

You use box at the end of pulls

Lmfao

[hazy mural]

if u can use it well then its no problem at all

[red knoll]

It causes 0 issues

[hazy mural]

if u suck and use it, its not greed, it's stupidity

[rustic kestrel]

Aint ever solvin a fuckass rubix cube in my keys

[red knoll]

Thats fine but saying its bad is cope

[lone canopy]

is this a weird way of saying "at the start of pulls"?

[red knoll]

Nuance still lost on this one

[lone canopy]

I can only acquiesce to your infallible takes, my apologies

let me jump back into dotc for high keys

[trim plaza]

the f is this XD

[red knoll]

Bro is coping hard

[lone canopy]

does it make more sense if the word "would" is added between you and need?

[hushed sonnet]

There's a macro tech to not get the debuff

[red knoll]

Cant play dotc properly so thinks its worse.

[lone canopy]

Yeah, just me and.. let's see..

every single bear

[violet holly]

that's why remix is fun

maxing out all stats

.1s gcd go brrr

[rustic kestrel]

@lone canopy stat weight sims arent the best, but it still makes a pretty solid point.

[lone canopy]

Aight, guess we should stack crit

[rustic kestrel]

The real answer, is you sim every single piece of gear

But saying haste is impossibly higher than everything else is just wrong at this stage

[lone canopy]

Did I say it was impossibly higher than everything else?

[hazy mural]

[hushed sonnet]

Legit 😂

[lone canopy]

I'm saying it's not reasonable to reach a point where haste isn't our best stat in the current patch with this ilvl

you would need voidsong + eye of midnight + refusing to gem or enchant or flask for vers

in high keys, as a general rule, just get haste where you can, because the sims don't reveal its value offensively and defensively

[rustic kestrel]

Idk man

[lone canopy]

yes.. because you need to get an amount of it that isn't reasonable to get in this patch

[hazy mural]

sending u to jail for exploits

[rustic kestrel]

You dont need to go very far to make it worse than crit

[lone canopy]

top 2 rated bears in the world, by some margin, and they still flask for haste

[rustic kestrel]

Putting any stats on a pedestal is just silly. Its just a aim angle

[lone canopy]

Huh

[rustic kestrel]

Okay?

[fallen robin]

Defensively it's never been our best stat.

[red knoll]

99% of players just play whatever the top guy is doing.

Even if another spec is just as viable.

[lone canopy]

Lol okay, follow the sims and stack crit

we're all just sheep

following the hastey leader

[trim plaza]

here we go again with these "top bears do it, ill do it too"

cya later

[fallen robin]

Sim is a good tool. Why not use it over vibes?

[rustic kestrel]

The top bears dont have haste on every single piece

[red knoll]

You literally just admitted to following what all the other bears do lmfao

[rustic kestrel]

Like you said

[red knoll]

Then call people sheep

Wdt

I stack haste cuz its our best offensive stat and I primarily raid

But its not proper for keys

[lone canopy]

because high keys aren't simmable, and this playstyle is novel

sims tell you what will get the most pure dps per point, it pays no regard for the offensive/defensive balance

(if the apl is even updated to reflect the fully degenerate optimal playstyle)

[rustic kestrel]

It is

[lone canopy]

I was calling myself a sheep

because that was the implication, I just "do what the top bears do"

[red knoll]

I actually started stacking a bit more crit cuz its more important now that they nerfed apex

Apex critting is even more important than before

[lone canopy]

No, its less important, because its a smaller portion of our damage

[hushed sonnet]

What does the SIM say tho

[red knoll]

Okay buddy 🙂

[trim plaza]

i mean u get alot more value from all stats than just stacking haste, aloo??

bro i cant

[lone canopy]

not until about 30%

[trim plaza]

bruh

[tall basin]

ahhhh

he talks about this:

[lone canopy]

ilvl is still king for tanks, but failing that, haste is strictly better for high keys in this build, up until that 1250-1300 mark

then you probably want vers for all the magic dam

[tall basin]

and he was thinking if you hit =>1320 haste you shouldn't focus that much on haste

[fallen robin]

Oh they turned it on? What talents combination makes it do 2 button rotation?

[rustic kestrel]

No apex

[lone canopy]

You can speak to me directly legend - and yes, that is what starts devalueing haste mathematically - however the practical soft cap is a little lower than that

[fallen robin]

Does it press Maul if you go KB and Mangle if SotF?

[tall basin]

i got you mate ❤️

[lone canopy]

the 1320 diminishing returns aren't enough to make stuff like heart of the wind weaker than other non-raid options tho

[olive hare]

Nah, its just hooked to apex. Will only work with the full meme build

[fallen robin]

Why not Mastery for the HP/Healing (since it is best for EHP)? Is the answer from vibes, 🔮 off top players, or something in the data on tank hits?

[lone canopy]

it's not vibes, it's just not directly simmable - you just need to play it and see

haste lets you stack up the 15% dr much quicker, as well as enormously accelerating chain pulls and grouping mobs since you can't rely on moonfire alone, devourers gotta maintain that meta

on top of being a lot more reliable damage smoothening from ursocs and EF

mastery is good but we already get a load of it from beam - which we accelerate by having more haste

[olive hare]

Smells like vibes ngl.

[hazy mural]

what about crit helping u to a avoid more melees? also bigger crits mean more UF shields and EF healing too

[lone canopy]

rng tanking isn't a reliable way to survive a pull

you can't rely on just dodging to live

[rustic kestrel]

Youre adding a lot of meaning to what is most likely topcplayers picking based on vibes

[hazy mural]

more melee avoidance also means less chance of stacking the nasty dots u get from some melees

[lone canopy]

No, I'm commenting on what it feels like to play it

[rustic kestrel]

Like when an author says curtains are blue, and an english teacher finds meaning in that

[high path]

are we back at pretending secondaries matter

[white sentinel]

Any of you beautiful people done the mage tower during Midnight?

[high path]

i love those times

[olive hare]

Thats way too many hot takes for a poop break.

[high path]

where people waste like

[hazy mural]

I love haste, but im not blind to say its the best and stack it forever or else!

[violet holly]

I like the theory of things

but in reality

[high path]

4 hours arguing about shit that doesn't affec tthem

[violet holly]

spam thrash moonfire

[hazy mural]

its just fun to have high haste, simple

[high path]

based

[lone canopy]

huh?? No one is saying stack it forever or else?

[high path]

i like crit cause it makes big number appear on my screen

therefore crit is bis

[hazy mural]

up to DR then

[red knoll]

I like vers cuz it lets me afk

[hazy mural]

I've always been this way... 1st time I've never stacked haste was on Brew

[lone canopy]

Its just our best stat for the memebear build in high keys and as general advice: you can't reasonably reach a point where that stops being the case without EoM + voidsong and full haste enchants and gems, so pick it up where you can

it's not a controversial point

[violet holly]

I liked crit more when echo dmg was higher

[fallen robin]

How much faster does it let you stack the DR? I'm genuinely curious if you have data.

[lone canopy]

30% faster

if you have 30% haste

(assuming no FC procs)

[fallen robin]

I mean nobody is out there with 0 haste

[high path]

so not 30% then

[hazy mural]

it is technically slightly better if ur full thrash mode, yes... but if u wanna min max, u sim so u dont go over the point where others become better... tha ts not up to DR point

[violet holly]

them rngs ruin everything

always

[tall basin]

ye i also l like haste > crit > versa... but now i'm playing 19-20s and i think miss versa (i have only 125 versa - should be around 500+)

[high path]

i'm gonna be real with you

[hazy mural]

vibes based TC is fun but cant try and tell ppl its the optimal way of doing stuff

[lone canopy]

yes, on average it does

[high path]

you would not feel the difference

[high path]

no ?

[violet holly]

uh oh so you just roll over and wait for the res then?

[high path]

unless we're pretending having 0% haste is possible

which it isn't

[lone canopy]

you dont feel the difference ebtween 30% haste or not?

[fallen robin]

But the data for these averages

[high path]

no i'm saying your point is bad

because making a comparison between 0 and 30 is stupid

because that's not a thing

[lone canopy]

My point that "haste is the best stat for high keys memebear so pick it up where you can"?

can you explain what the alternative is?

[high path]

idc about that

[tall basin]

sure? then it would be better for going haste crit then versa (sim say haste + crit gives mehr more dmg)

[high path]

i care about you saying nonsense

[lone canopy]

What nonsense?

that's the only point I've made

[scarlet warren]

There’s no point arguing lmfao the sim followers will follow sims regardless. Top players play what they do for a reason it’s just ignorance to think otherwise

[high path]

500 vers is about is about 3-4% dr

going up a key level is 10% damage taken

it would not make a difference

[hazy mural]

not to the point u ignore common sense

[high path]

you literally are making a comparison between 0 and 30% haste and saying it means stacking dr 30% faster

[fallen robin]

I just want to understand so I can see it in my own logs and pick it out. Not just grabbing it because a person is saying it. Help me be a better analyst for my own play.

[high path]

that's

nonsense

because it's not a valid comparison

since you

cannot

have 0% haste

[tall basin]

hmm ye makse sense. i need to learn bear a bit more. since i played monk i need no deff cd management because of stagger is op XD

[high path]

it's not possible

idc about people obsessing over secondaries

it's a pointless debate

[lone canopy]

okay... 30% haste is 15% faster than having 15% haste

[high path]

because people will laways be convinced it matters

[lone canopy]

this place should be studied

[high path]

i think you should check that again

[fallen robin]

And this results in 15% more button presses over a key?

[violet holly]

I like how every season there's this debate

[high path]

no it doesn't

but shh

(it's also not 15% really cause that's not how % works but w/e)

i cannot believe people give me shit for being obsessed with models and nothing else

[lone canopy]

It's not something you're gonna math out in a sim - you just need to play it and see - the time save and key completion % is abstract, not directly loggable

it enables you to thrash a new pack faster, reach DR cap faster, smoothen your ursoc's shielding, react to a new mob spawning faster

if you don't wanna take it on faith that the best tanks in the world know what they're doing then just try it yourself i guess

[fallen robin]

I'm trying to be open to new ideas if they have data and stats.

[high path]

then you have people turning around and pretending people play perfectly like robot all the time

[hazy mural]

biggest thing to success is always good brains

[violet holly]

green name hates top players

[high path]

idc

[hazy mural]

ppl play well because th ey good, stats dont matter a lot

[high path]

i just want people to stop telling me i'm math obessed

[lone canopy]

I'm sorry this just isnt true lol

[high path]

then turn around and pretend they ca nactually react to 0.1s differences

[hazy mural]

if we use maths, it is

[fallen robin]

I want to know what I'm looking for in my own log analysis. Not for a sim. So you're telling me that reliably more haste will get me to 5 stacks of Thrash significantly faster?

[lone canopy]

WF keys are mapped out to the global - they don't just vibe it - I strongly suggest watching andy discussing pulls outside of a key

[hazy mural]

u can give an average player everything ur saying is good, and they wont do much at the key lvls ur t alking about

[high path]

to the global

@rustic kestrel

i need that clip again

where squish fails at rezzing a guy

for

idk

10 sec ?

[rustic kestrel]

I dont have a response to something so insane

[high path]

but to the global

[lone canopy]

yes because thrash cd is reduced by haste, haste just means more thrashes

as well as your gcd

[rustic kestrel]

To the global

[hazy mural]

everytime someone says they did bad damage cause of stats... I actually cringe

[high path]

also just to be clear having more haste doesn't actually "smoothen you shielding'

[fallen robin]

But what filters should I use? How do I set the query up?

[lone canopy]

That's not what I'm talking about at all

[high path]

because you're acting as if only haste will do this

but

[hazy mural]

just taking all the responsibility from urself

[high path]

literally any secondary does that

[lone canopy]

look at the casts per minute i guess

[jolly laurel]

Well having good stat is important for doing good damage

And i'm one of bear that do most dmg in raid xD

[lone canopy]

any seocndary will make you thrash more often and stack up your dr faster?

[high path]

sure, but compared t odoing your rotation properly it's not that big of a difference

[lone canopy]

this place is unreal

[high path]

so i know you can't read

but

[timid solstice]

my man’s brain is about to explode

[high path]

you do kinda have to not be so designenuous

please read what i said again

[hazy mural]

thats what ur implying... u can have the "worst" stat prio on and do way better than others with best stat prio simply cause u know what ur doing much better, and or u have good team mates too

stats are like 1 pct if that of ur performance

[high path]

eh prolly a bit more

[fallen robin]

Okay. So if I go from 15->25% haste I should see 10% more CPM on Thrash?

[hazy mural]

fine... 1.69

[rustic kestrel]

Every global, every electron of the game, pre mapped into my conciousness. I don't even see the game world anymore, just my io number ticking up.

[high path]

damn you can see elctrons

[jolly laurel]

You will do more trash, idk if 10% more; also you will got way more rage, so more incarn

making incarn 2 min or 1min 30 sec is important

[high path]

(you'll get more rage by just pressing mangle)

instead

but shhh

not everyone unlocked that idea yet

[lone canopy]

"way better" does not mean personal dps logs

it means timing the key with a higher completion rate or at a faster time

the damage you add to your party by grouping up a pull 20% faster is significantly more than any stat weight changes could affect your output

[jolly laurel]

trash dot tic faster = more rage in aoe

anddd trash give lot of rage too 😄 and shield

[hazy mural]

u wont have a higher completion rate or faster time due to stats... it will be because of making better choices within the key

[high path]

i really don't think doing from rage every 2.6 to 2.3 sec is tha tbig a deal

[lone canopy]

haste is simply better for timing keys than other stats, to a point where if you took 10% of it and added it to mastery or crit, you would notice it, it would be obvious

[high path]

i think

pressing mangle is better actually

but that might be because i haven't mapped all my globals

[lone canopy]

Yes you literally would, otherwise why would they bother crafting haste gear? why would they use haste trinkets? why would they enchant and gem haste?

of course it makes a difference

otherwise just pick the cheapest option off the AH

[hazy mural]

last time something was so important like that was more about covenants or corruption gear

[rustic kestrel]

If even one thrash is at the wrong millisecond, the key collapses and entropy takes over

[lone canopy]

this is a very silly place

[hazy mural]

since then, get best ilvl, have the most fun stats u want and go ham

[high path]

that's because you're being a silly goobers

that says silly things

[jolly laurel]

actually if you got perfect gear, you dont gems or enchant hast

[hazy mural]

because haste is fun

[jolly laurel]

because you got too much hast with ring / necks etc

[high path]

brother

[hazy mural]

u dont play haste cause u wont time keys without it... u play it cause it makes the spec feel good when u have enough haste

[sharp gale]

evil green leaves are at it again

[high path]

people claimed tha tvers was the stat for survivability and better than everything

for years

even if it mathematically wasn ot

and you could prove it with logs

[jolly laurel]

Hast > Vers almost always been

[high path]

idk why you wanna pretend people doing those keys just know everything and have insane brains

but like

a lot of people just go for what's popular/what they're told is good

[jolly laurel]

in ST at least

[high path]

and don't question it

it's

completely normal and expected

[sharp gale]

to be honest, you have to be very high IQ to understand how top rated players play the game etc etc please imagine the rest of the copypasta

[high path]

well they do map all their globals

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/bookio-gif-13932157847762104386
Recalculating the key route as I missed my 347th thrash by .02ms

[jolly laurel]

But for surv and slower gameplay = more ez /// playing vers / mastery if its for someone that struggle with APM is not bad option

[sharp gale]

i heard squishvegan mapped all his ironfurs to his globals

[high path]

right but what i mean is

if we want to get into what's the best survivability option

[jolly laurel]

If you ret*rded just don't play hast xD

[high path]

the answer is generally going mastery heavy with either crit or haste

that is technically

the best way to reduce your incoming damage

are people doing it tho ?

[jolly laurel]

nah crit is pointless

[high path]

not really because that's not the main concern

see

this is exactly what i mean

[jolly laurel]

% dodge don't make you survive more

[rustic kestrel]

auto attack damage is only 80% of the damage you take in a key

[high path]

of course it does

[rustic kestrel]

pointless

[high path]

like again

you can do this on logs

[tall basin]

loooooooool

[jolly laurel]

you don't die of AA, but of buster / magical

[high path]

we've done it multiple time

and vers doesn't save you fro mthat

[sharp gale]

do the spell axes from AA still hit u with the magic component of their basic attacks when u dodge their main attack

[high path]

secondaries

[rustic kestrel]

nope

[hazy mural]

dont think I can participate in this anymore

[fallen robin]

What about when Crit gives you that free bleed stack reset?

[high path]

do not make live those

ever

secondaries are not about surviving things

they're about reducing the damage intake

[sharp gale]

so dodge would make me live the axes more noted, qed.

[scarlet warren]

Basing if you live a pull off rng is never good

[rustic kestrel]

yes.

[violet holly]

tertiaries is where its at, speed to be more precise

[high path]

and if you want to be a pedantic bitch about it

[rustic kestrel]

you dont base living a pull off just your secondaries

that would be stupid and bad play

[high path]

mastery is the best at it passively

[sharp gale]

please imagine me doing the fortnite L dance on you

[high path]

crit is very good for overall passive reduction as well

[tall basin]

XD

[high path]

haste requires you to actually play the game to be good

[rustic kestrel]

I think we can end the argument with the one true thing we learned

https://tenor.com/view/matrix-code-matrix-code-encryption-encrypted-gif-5662740

top key players doing keys

[high path]

did you know those are the lottery numbers

but they go too fast on purpose

so you can't use those

[violet holly]

I bet top players know how to use it

[jolly laurel]

This aint a fortnite discord; aswell if you die of AA you... just don't do your stuff good; if you die in current state of bear aswell in M+ tbh xD

[amber ocean]

Bear is great cause it's one of the few specs (as far as I'm aware) that likes every single secondary near-equally. Like... it's also not that hard to sim and see that haste really isn't THAT important or special, lol. You do, in fact, need a balance

[rustic kestrel]

well if you're missing haste on a SINGLE piece of gear, it takes you .02s slower to cast your 5th thrash and you fall over and die

[sharp gale]

https://tenor.com/bMPr7.gif

[high path]

those 52 haste on your wirst are key to the entire plan

if you don't have them

the delay is too big

[violet holly]

what if we understand that all secondaries have similar value, and then we can just say "I like X secondary better" instead of "X secondary is better"

[high path]

you don't get LB

[amber ocean]

Fuck you're right, I guess I need to go farm more gear...

[high path]

and die

[sharp gale]

i already sim every piece of equipment out in my head before raidbots can even parse my simcraft addon stats and know exactly how much faster i must press my abilities when i equip 52 more haste on my pants.

that's how good i am.

[high path]

basically ye, bear doesn't have any real synergy with secondaires outside of ravage and Lunation

and compared to what other classes have

it's

not much

like compare that to rsham with crit

where resurgence allows you to spam heal people and get mana back if you have enough crit

[amber ocean]

There's a reason I get 0.4% dps from getting an extra 20 haste from upgrading a gear piece to 6/6, right? 20 haste is just MASSIVE. Whatever will I do without that extra 70dps????

[shy berry]

Whats the reason for waiting until 5 stacks of thrash before inc?

[violet holly]

to maximize sundering roar dmg

[shy berry]

Ahhh shit, so you delay sundering until after inc?

I was using it to refresh thrash to get to 5 stacks, now that I read roar ability, I feel pretty dumb

[high path]

i mean

techncially

[rustic kestrel]

If you need to use it to gather multiple packs, its not the end of the world to secure aggro

[violet holly]

sundering roar is not a big button so it doesnt matter much anyway

[high path]

you should wait to 4, then incarn, then SR

if we're being real silly about it

but it barely make any difference

[violet holly]

yeah if there's nothing else to do then play around it

[soft flint]

quick question bears, how do you deal with healer snap aggro on caster mobs as you are gathering them for a pull? Trash isn't always up and just a moonbeam to grab them is not enough since they seem to instantly go to healer. "Face pull" the caster and always use thrash on them to avoid that? Sorry if I didn't make myself clear

[hushed oriole]

did Valeera get nerfed recently? Just ran a 11 bountiful and she did 1/3 the damage of my tank. Feel like 2 weeks ago she was ripping 100k+. Around level 35 or so

[violet holly]

valeera kinda weird tbh

sometimes she 1 shots other times she just dies idk

[hushed oriole]

weird hm

[rustic viper]

does she have a role

mine constantly keeps losing her role

[hushed oriole]

deeps, with purple curios on

[rustic viper]

so I gotta set it

[hushed oriole]

oh good comms, I'll check next run

also weird b/c this toon has like 282 ilvl so its not an issue with her scaling poorly

[odd cave]

isnt all her damage in her RNG execute

[trim plaza]

check if u have role for her, it resets sometimes for some reason

[odd cave]

if she doesnt execute anything she probably doesnt do much dam

[quiet kite]

See it on allot of the top tanks but really unsure if its better than my pair of myth nexus rings

[odd cave]

other times 1 shots the big flying affix dude from 35%

[rustic kestrel]

moonkin starfall on gathers makes this very easy, otherwise just make sure you get into the packs

[half surge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/AmqfkJjGQ2zP1xgN?fight=last

Can some1 tell me why im only doing blue logs? anything to improve?

[olive hare]

Heal aggro is super low. Its spread evenly among all mobs incombat and yeah, a moonfire should usually cut it threatwise unless your healer pre-pops some big shields for a spreadpull, thats not the best idea in the world. And tbh I didnt bother checking it this season, but iirc most of the spamcasters and archers of this season still pick random targets, no matter if you have aggro or not.

[vague hare]

Hello

this macro is good to use in 1 button and not 2 buttons : #showtooltip Mangle
/cast Mangle
/cast !Ironfur ???

[trim plaza]

atleast u csat mangle i give u that

[olive hare]

Leave mangle alone, thats your on demand rage. If youre lazy, macro fur to thrash. If youre super lazy, macro it to moonfire as well.

[vague hare]

aham so 3 buttons less in 1 button

oki

Is better to use 1 embelish like back or belt with Arcanoweave Lining and 2nd embelishment the ring Loa ?

[lyric wraith]

when you gather up a big pull, do you try to build some thrash stacks before you send sundering, or do you do it right away once grouped?

[uneven flame]

usually im not a big fan of this race

but your ragebait mog makes it so good

[uneven flame]

sim it - its probably about equal

actually no, i think putting LOA and removing your 2-set fingers

is by far worse

2x arcano is prob good for you

[proper slate]

If you are going to macro ironfur to thrash, which line comes first in the macro?

[red knoll]

For some reason for me the only healer that causes issue is usually monk

[olive hare]

Thrash first, fur next

[proper slate]

ok, I've seen some people say it should be the other way around

[olive hare]

Same, understood it after getting mine to 90. Monk has really strong passive burst heals (TFT into 3 rising sun kicks, sck procs) and respectable damage on top of it, plus some noticable absorbs like chichi and cocoon.

[vague hare]

in AA what buff u take guys mostly haste or versa ?

[soft flint]

ty

[soft flint]

ty

[trim plaza]

vers

[olive hare]

Vers, since you get a flat % it counteracts the natural drawback of gear vers (having a worse per point value than other secondaries)

Kinda sucks that crit % amps dont increase parry/dodge. If they did, I'd always pick crit for the higher chance of preventing lasher stacks.

[red knoll]

I dont think you can dodge them

Otherwise Monks wouldnt have to kite

[olive compass]

i feel very squishy as a guardian during the gathering phase, is it just a press bark angle until everything is stacked and i become immortal

[trim plaza]

bark->lb->trash

[olive compass]

yea ok figured, ty

[red knoll]

Its also not macroing IF so you actually have rolling stacks

[odd cave]

you can also precast fr for the shield

[red knoll]

Do not pre fr lmao

Thats such an enormous waste of fr

[half surge]

lb?

[trim plaza]

lunar beam

[half surge]

oh... u could use it prefire...

[trim plaza]

ofc

xd

[half surge]

okkk i learn new shit every day

thats good

wellllll... gotta learn if i wanna make 18 resil

[trim plaza]

adn it boosts ur first trash alot when u walk into pack

and gives alot of hp

[half surge]

i just have same issue ish

feel squishy

but i know why kinda

i have not yet upgraded my mythic pieces

[trim plaza]

and barskin always while gathering, it has so low cd anyway

[half surge]

oh and head enchant

[red knoll]

Bark yeah but i would fregen

Wouldnt

[versed gorge]

Does it matter sending lb and pulling mobs away tho, i always want to have mobs gathered to drop lb on em

I guess it doesnt do that much damage

[honest latch]

do we even utilise 4set bonus? or we just spam trash and moonfire?

[versed gorge]

God i hope nopex build dies

Especially for new guardian players that are learning this brain rot build

[trim plaza]

^

[versed gorge]

Yes use 4set. Yes use apex. Yes use raze.

[olive compass]

i dont have the shield talented

[red knoll]

Most people dont cuz its not needed

Unless ur doing very high keys

Let's be honest anyone brought over to bear because of this is 99.9% switching when its not fotm anymore

[trim plaza]

tbh its not game saver in high keys either

[olive compass]

im not super high rated

[red knoll]

Its useful for specific tank smashes

[olive compass]

im a bit under 4k

[red knoll]

So youre doing 21s?

[olive compass]

yea

[trim plaza]

thats high

[red knoll]

Then its worth it

[trim plaza]

xdd

[red knoll]

Lmao

[olive compass]

na

minigame is piss

press defensive and use eyes simulator

[red knoll]

Im only doing 2 key levels lower than the world first

[versed gorge]

Not high keys btw xddd

Im doing 15s bro, thats not high keys lol

[trim plaza]

higher than 99% of players

[olive compass]

i guess atm its higher than 99.9%

[red knoll]

21s is title range

[versed gorge]

I dont do high keys, but i do keys high

[olive compass]

based

[rustic viper]

personally I key high do

[red knoll]

Maybe ill get to do 18s with my group once they get resils

Since they just pug everything and leave me behind

[olive compass]

wish i had a team

just pugging

[trim plaza]

what kind of group is that

[red knoll]

A dysfunctional one

They wont even commit to a comp

We were running mage warlock melee for a while

Which juat isnt good

[trim plaza]

anything works tbh

[red knoll]

Not really at the highest end

[hushed sonnet]

Full melee and resto sham my favourite

[trim plaza]

but bro

18

[red knoll]

You cant just forgo comp

[trim plaza]

anything works

[red knoll]

18 is when shit starts mastering

Mattering

[trim plaza]

bear/mw/demo/sp->random pug, works

[red knoll]

I dont think mage is worth taking

Ill be honest

[trim plaza]

mostly shaman or aug is our pug choice

[red knoll]

They only do damage on bosses

Even then its likely less than warlock

[trim plaza]

frost mage has good dmg profile, but its paper

[olive compass]

na

i timed my first 21 with like SV/WW/Demo/brew/disc

doesnt get worse than that

[rustic viper]

if u dont have mm hunter and fire mage in ur group are u even trying

[amber ocean]

So for anyone who has cleared mythic crown on bear - I see some top bears popping the first incarn like ~15s into the fight (Alongside using box at 13s, pot right after, etc) - is that to get the extra max health or... am I missing something obvious?

[rustic viper]

its to pad mad

[amber ocean]

I doubt it, you can't pad on the little guys anymore

And the logs I've looked at are like recent - last few days

Unless they're just dumb and don't look at the glaring thing that says "Void droplets don't count after 12.0.5" on warcraft logs.

[red knoll]

Its to get the damage amp stacks

I do it on heroic

[amber ocean]

Right so not padding on the droplets, but padding on the add itself

[red knoll]

I mean its not really padding

[amber ocean]

That makes sense. Forgot about damage amp stacks, so I am the dumb one. Lol.

[red knoll]

What else are you using it on

[amber ocean]

This is true

[red knoll]

The truth is damage doesnt matter until p3

Only thing people shouldn't be hitting is the globules

[rustic viper]

and because of that

its pad by technicality

[red knoll]

Eh

[rustic viper]

[amber ocean]

I mean I feel like it's definitely padding but not like void orbs in dragons padding

[rustic viper]

its ok I do it too

[red knoll]

My brewmaster co tank keeps beating me and its pissing me off

[rustic viper]

just gotta be the solo tank

[red knoll]

He beat me on dragons and its 100% due to uptime

[amber ocean]

My cotank is also a brew. He's never stood a chance 😄

[red knoll]

Its also alot easier for brew to pad on adds

[rustic viper]

I'll just hide my brew real quick

[red knoll]

And incarn has to be held for like 30 seconds

[merry quest]

P2*

[amber ocean]

30? not the 15 I'm seeing?

[red knoll]

Talking about dragons

At least ill beat him on paladins or ill uninstall

[amber ocean]

Oh yeah. I parsed purple on dragons, I'm happy enough with that.

[amber ocean]

My pally clear has made me mad.

[rustic viper]

I dont think ill see dragons as pug enjoyer

[red knoll]

Bro we have no ranged and they have like 30 yd range on everything

[rustic viper]

[red knoll]

So dumb

Their cleave works regardless of where they are

X.x

[trim plaza]

u prog dragons without bdk?

[red knoll]

Yeah

[amber ocean]

Yeah I just died to a 10k overkill cause my cotank forgot to swap

[trim plaza]

holy shit

[amber ocean]

And so i was dead for the last minute of the fight

[red knoll]

We killed it

Without bdk

[rustic kestrel]

have u tried living it anyways

[trim plaza]

i mean its killable, bdk just makes it free as f xd

[red knoll]

Idk about that

We killed it in like 2 nights of prog

[amber ocean]

Still parsed 65, but given I died right as my incarn was coming up, I was big mad. I would've parsed so well. -_-

[rustic viper]

bk's make a lot of fights this season MUCH easier huh

[red knoll]

Hes beating me on chimmy and I dont know how

[merry quest]

It’s because they bring the strongest raid buff

[red knoll]

Other than just more uptime on boss

[amber ocean]

Are you going first soak or second

[rustic viper]

I mean pull specifically

[red knoll]

First

[rustic viper]

err, grip

[amber ocean]

Go second

[red knoll]

Is it just more lust uptime?

[amber ocean]

You get 2 bursts on chim, and then your final incarn is on adds

And you go infinite

I've been doing near 70k cause of it

[trim plaza]

tbh i have no clue about bear progging, have done it with my dk as always

[red knoll]

Hes doing 80k

Lol

[amber ocean]

Active or like overall?

That's wild

[late thistle]

Have you tried no apex 😉

[red knoll]

Overall

[amber ocean]

...Yeah i've got nothing. I'll take my orange parse that I thought was good and go cry somewhere 😄

[red knoll]

The nerfs hurt man lol

[amber ocean]

Okay the real play is get priests in your group and convince them to give you PI

[red knoll]

I went from always beating him to always losing

[lucid arrow]

and invalidate your parse

[trim plaza]

its even worse in raid

[amber ocean]

Yes, but the dps will be higher

[amber ocean]

I don't know this pain, my cotank is a pretty average tank. I consistently do like 15-20k more than him, lol

[red knoll]

Im also stubborn and want to play dotc

So

[amber ocean]

Yeah ravage goes brrr

I get it

[red knoll]

I have him doing all the pull outs in paladins

Cuz fuck that job

[trim plaza]

idk, all the highest parses are almost always Dotc?

[red knoll]

As bear

Depends

[trim plaza]

expect mby cleave fights

[red knoll]

For paladins and bird specifically

I think

And lura

[amber ocean]

Yeah same 😄

[amber ocean]

It's actually a mix for pallys now

[red knoll]

Yeah but I like bursting 400-600k

[amber ocean]

I mean I still burst 400k as EC tbh on pallys

But once again, ravage goes brr

So I get it

I do miss my ravage and being #1 on the dps meter in opener

[red knoll]

Ravage needs a 50% buff

Dps can suck it

[amber ocean]

There's always this one guy in my group that's like "Joseph wtf is your damage" when I'm inevitably 4th on the meter in openers. Lmao

[red knoll]

I was consistently 1 on the meters for the first like 40 seconds of pulls

Not anymore

Sadge

2 boomies 2 ele shamans

One of them is gunna casino higher

[uneven flame]

Me when i do 1 mill on academy opener and people freak out then i do 40k st on next pull

[amber ocean]

Yup, skyreach too

[amber ocean]

I miss the days

[uneven flame]

🤣

[red knoll]

Dps tears

Sigh

Why was is such an issue a tank was good at burst

[amber ocean]

Yeah - I mean our dps is the same

We just don't top charts anymore in openers

And I guess we were too good at beloren

[torn depot]

we can still do crazy burst with apex

[red knoll]

I still sneak in there some times

[torn depot]

not 1m dps but comparable to dps specs

[amber ocean]

I got PI before the nerfs for HC Bel, and would do 30k over the next one down who also had PI. 😄

[red knoll]

Yeah i have wr 5 on heroic belo

Did 220k in egg

[amber ocean]

Damn man. I was only hitting 200

I am 15 on L'ura though so that's cool

HC that is

[red knoll]

Yeah

I can only manage an 88 on it i keep dying to tank swap issues

[amber ocean]

It's always the cotank isn't it 😄

[red knoll]

When I die, usually

I rarely die to not pressing my buttons

Tho I did die on paladins cuz i didnt think i needed to use a defensive on the swap

[amber ocean]

Yeah that was a weird one for me too

3 stacks of IF not enough either

10k overkill ffs.

[red knoll]

It shouldn't

Idk why it does

[torn depot]

the light's shield is heavy

[amber ocean]

Yeah I feel like I shouldn't be taking 700k through all my armor but...

Having to press a barkskin/SI every time is annoying

[red knoll]

I kinda just stopped stacking if on that stack it seems to not matter

[torn depot]

reminds me of doing nullaeus on first day, 2-3 stacks, defensive and FR shields and it still did half my hp lol

[lyric wraith]

skyreach bird boss, do you guys go cat form to get to the boss fast after searing quills?

[amber ocean]

Yep same.

[lyric wraith]

or do you just eat a tick and run up to it?

[amber ocean]

Press your dash

wild charge

Also you can stand under the boss for searing

[torn depot]

wild charge, and on lower keys i just tank through the damage

[amber ocean]

Press barkskin and go

[amber ocean]

This works on high keys too tbh

[torn depot]

ye it should i just never risked it

[stiff phoenix]

Is there a strong build that isn’t pressing two buttons

[torn depot]

apex

[amber ocean]

Well, I should say I've tried it on a 16 and it's fine

And i've seen it done on a 22

[shut jasper]

bear has an easy time not hiding

much easier than brew

[torn depot]

yep

[amber ocean]

But I wasn't paying attention to what was pressed on the 22

[torn depot]

a defensive and FR and nothing goes through

druid feels really cheesy for that part

[shut jasper]

not hiding on 16 as brew felt a little sketch

[torn depot]

can bruteforce the boss and then skip the wind part

[red knoll]

You can just not hide as bear

FR does it all

[olive compass]

you def hide as brew

in my 21 i think one tick dropped me to like 30%

[red knoll]

Plus you can just transcendence each one

[olive compass]

i mean just run and hit the mob

better

[red knoll]

No it prevents

Dumb warriors

[olive compass]

dont play with warriors

ez

[red knoll]

From getting ganked

Well

[shut jasper]

oh yeah on a real key I couldn't stay out as brew

you can just taunt while at range and he won't melee anyone for the duration of the debuff

[olive compass]

yea but

then you're not doing damage

which matters more

[shut jasper]

oh I just mean while walking back

[olive compass]

ahy yea

[shut jasper]

to prevent someone from getting clapped if they get there first

wonder how it is not hiding on a higher key as blood nowadays

should be relatively chill

[olive compass]

surely you can just outheal it

[shut jasper]

yeah

might have to vamp or at least pool rp

having to hide with your wheelchair doesn't sound fun

[olive compass]

na

theres more than enough time

[shut jasper]

just a lot of downtime

since you run twice instead of once

[vale jungle]

Are there other mechanics like the 2nd boss in skyreach that a bear can ignore if they just press FR to maintain uptime without screwing the party over?

[hollow beacon]

is no raze still more dps?

[timid solstice]

Charging back for last boss of saron or maisara knockbacks?
For FR I don’t think there’s anything unique other than it being a generic defensive - for ignoring mechanics

[teal moat]

yo i was wondering anybody knows of an addon where it changes colors on nameplates for threat but without touching anything else, i dont wana change my blizzard nameplates

[lucid arrow]

default nameplates can do that

in options

does taking symbiotic relationship and slapping it on the weakest link defensively help any or just dump that point into forestwalk?

[grave vapor]

I've seen it save people when I frenzie regen

[olive compass]

in raid or m+

[lucid arrow]

m+

[olive compass]

its good in m+

[lucid arrow]

worth dropping a forestwalk point for it or should i try to drop the moonkin hotw u reckon?

[olive compass]

i just copied andy m+ talents

[olive hare]

With no apex I dont think forestwalk is high value. I'd play symbiotic over it

[olive compass]

looks like highest rated players are still running no apex

[olive hare]

Ofc they do. They're doing the same thing you do

https://tenor.com/view/monkey-see-monkey-do-lack-of-originality-follow-blindly-copy-without-thinking-follow-the-leader-gif-14684720899537309328

[olive compass]

wdym

yea i mean if you want to perform thats kind of what you do

[iron bane]

in ST are we pressing mangle and are we changing anything inside of incarn or is it straight MF spam still?

[olive hare]

Dont think choice affects it that much tbh. Just because youre a top io player youre not necessarily putting a ton of thoughts into your build choice. You see something working and try it. Maybe tomorrow dreamrage clears a +24 with dotc no raze. And suddenly the 'build meta' shifts.

[lament dock]

It has always been a slight gain to Mangle in ST. Even before nerfs. Whether you find that gain to be worth the "effort" is up to you

[olive compass]

do you not mangle in aoe during incarn

[iron bane]

I just mf -> thrash -> mf -> thrash in incarn

clearing 18s

just get 10 stacks of thrash up

[olive hare]

In your build you dont mangle at all, even in st. At least from a dps perspective.

[iron bane]

only time I mangle is for rage to brez OR frenzied

[lucid arrow]

ye i just like the value of moonkin hotw for pugs that can't wait to start dpsing

[olive compass]

thats

insane

[lucid arrow]

so im thinking about it

[olive compass]

so you're telling me

its a net dps gain in aoe

to just thrash and spam mf until thrash cd is back up

[iron bane]

yeah

[lucid arrow]

no it's pretty normal to not mangle

mangle is only for you need rage to ironfur asap

or fr

[olive hare]

Yep. LB is that good.

[iron bane]

I just mean the ST damage is literally cheeks

[olive compass]

spamming mf reduces the cd of lb or smth ?

[lucid arrow]

yes

all arcane dmg does

[iron bane]

Also though I am comparing it to my BrM. I am only 3600 so nothing special but it feels lacking damage wise comparably

[olive hare]

Read 'lunation' in your hero tree

Getting as many LB amped thrashes out as possible is how you bigdick as a nopex bear.

[olive compass]

what a disgusting build

[iron bane]

what do you mean it is fun lol

[olive compass]

yea bro

pressing 2 buttons and spamming mf is "fun"

[iron bane]

yeah

[lucid arrow]

i like being able to focus on other things more tbh

[iron bane]

I mean go ahead and act like any tank is complicated lol

it's a game of cd management

not dps rotation

[lucid arrow]

there's still a lot to press defensively and it's not any worse than avg tank

[olive compass]

it kind of is a game of dps rotation

thats how you have people doing sub 100k dps in 20s

where it matters

[olive hare]

^this. No apex bear is a little braindead yeah. But not significantly more braindead than for example a vdh aka glorified fracture bot.