guardian

[red knoll]

Lame

[blazing gyro]

eay to farm is ultradon trinket strong defensive trinket

[red knoll]

Ultradon is very bad lol

[violet holly]

it gives mastery no? Thats kinda bad by default

[lone nacelle]

If I don’t have gaze what do I use

Got giga unlucky

[violet holly]

get those from m+

WS or skyreach prism

[vivid frost]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/THDgAa2YG8bKMPjC?fight=29&type=damage-done

[lone nacelle]

I have that

And puzzzle box

My stats are 1.1k haste 800 vers so

[violet holly]

any stats is fine

[lone nacelle]

Just kinda stuck with trinkets

Got a 289 puzzle box

But idk how to use it well

[violet holly]

you have to use before pull

[lone nacelle]

Not during ?

[violet holly]

so its kinda awkward in m+

[lone nacelle]

It’s 20 sec duration

[violet holly]

it has a cast time etc

[lone nacelle]

Incarn is 30

Can use it 10 sec in

When I stack ironies

Iron furs

[violet holly]

bc of the cast time its weird

and then there's the 2 min cd that will prob not align with incarn

every time

but any trinket with cd does that

regardless its strong

or you can opt for passive trinkets

[lone nacelle]

It’s 289 so

Idk

[violet holly]

WS heart + Skyreach prism

[lone nacelle]

I have both

[violet holly]

you can sim for dmg which performs better

and you are godd

will end up being box + one of those

[lone nacelle]

No idea tbh

I’ll sim I guess

[olive hare]

Yeah thought so. I dont think you played the dungeon too slow. The chinesse bear just had three giga blasters, while you had...one basically, the demo. Underperforming dps negatively affect your performance as well, sadly.

[violet holly]

sim is the answer

good thing is that you have all the good options

[lone nacelle]

I have them all ya but no gaze

[violet holly]

so end of day any combination is good

[lone nacelle]

lol

Need another 2 weeks of bonus rolling

[violet holly]

ah its good enough, you know

[fringe saddle]

So, for raiding, is [Raze] a higher damage ability, even on single-target? I see some builds with people putting points into it and I’ve just treated it as a M+/AoE ability.

[violet holly]

gaze is bis but all those others are second best so its all good

[lone nacelle]

Ya probably doing that for now

[vivid frost]

y just dh was behind but i don't think it was just that

[lone nacelle]

Shards are unlimited

[olive hare]

I mean you could improve your performance a little by dropping that scale in favor of another statstick or an on-use

[blazing gyro]

not many of the bosses are pure ST even as tank

[outer cave]

If you have a macro that uses the below is there ever a case where your target after macro is pressed is not the same as the one before it was pressed?

/cleartarget
/targetenemy
/cast spell
/cast targetlasttarget

[red knoll]

Idk why people say you cannot box in combat

You definitely can as bear

[blazing gyro]

you can it just feels bad

[red knoll]

I mean it lines up with incarn pretty nicely

If playing properly

[fringe saddle]

I’m looking at a L’ura parse and the person is specced into [Raze]. Yeah, there’s adds in that fight, but I’d have thought [Thrash] or [Incarnation: Guardian of Ursoc] would be good enough.

[red knoll]

Lol

You spec into raze for raid

Generally

[olive hare]

Also seems like he got better value out of his sundering roar activations. Did you prio using it at 5 stacks?

[red knoll]

It also makes your echos hit really hard in aoe

[fringe saddle]

Makes sense. Then, [Raze] is pretty much a given for M+ and raiding. 👍

[vivid frost]

no i using outside incarn and at the opener of pack

[red knoll]

If youre playing non dotc yes, dotc can get away with just ravage in m+

Non apex can also get away with it but idk

Non apex is kinda grief in certain comps

[fringe saddle]

I’ve also seen some Elune’s Chosen builds put points into [Starlight Conduit]. Is that just to give a little more oomph for the arcane damage/healz?

[olive hare]

its a minimalistic amount of extra damage on the starsurges from star cascade. Poor value, but where its located you can afford to play it, there are flexpoints.

[red knoll]

Is that the node after AI

In druid tree

[olive hare]

yep

[fringe saddle]

Yeah, the node after [Astral Influence].

[red knoll]

Yeah im not sure I agree with it but its fine I guess

I would take any utility over it

Even movement speed

Truth is most nodes in the druid tree outside of the very obvious ones are very low impact

[midnight orchid]

nothing as unfortunate as my poor timing of moonfiring the 3rd pack in 2nd boss room of skyreach, the same moment our priest used evangelism. ffs.

[olive hare]

'Even movement speed' if "I dont play m+" was a person

[carmine sandal]

When did this happen?

DF s2 godcomp maybe?

[red knoll]

I literally have speed enchants because of m+ lol

My speed is 14%

Theres just a lot of movement speed talents in the druid tree

[olive hare]

Just kidding Rip, I know you mean stuff like the 5% ms in bear form, not the good ones (swiftness+imp roar)

[red knoll]

Not taking swiftness is troll

Yeah

I mean things like forestwalk and lycaras

Improved roar is very situational

And comp dependant

I think in general I take it

But if there's a resto shaman it has less value

[fringe saddle]

I think there’s definitely some holes in the talent tree I ran with last night in my guild’s L’ura run. I was trying to lean more into the defensive points, since we’re casual and I’m trying to take a little heat offa the healers while we learn the fight.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/3DrBvp9YjmXf6FzA?fight=31&source=16

I thought the big focus now was [Moonfire]. Was I missing a lot of opportunities for damage to [Moonfire] over [Mangle], outside of when [Incarmation: Guardian of Ursoc] is up?

[red knoll]

Moonfire in raid is definitely not the play

[olive hare]

Forestwalk is a flex one as well yeah. I like it for apex builds where I tend to press frenzied more, but not so much on no apex builds

[red knoll]

100% of the time you should be playing red moon i think even as ec

You are taking apex right?

This is why I hate people advocating for the nopex build its gunna confuse people trying to raid

[fringe saddle]

Yeah, all points in Apex. I didn’t take [Red Moon], ‘cause I was trying to keep up a higher uptime for [Lunar Beam].

Which, again, ‘cause I’ve been confused about the new thrash builds.

[red knoll]

Yesh

Raid dont worry about uptime on lb

People who are saying moonfire spam are talking exclusively about no apex in m+

[olive hare]

Just realize I typed spec, not specs, my bad 😄 Just noticed that certain 20-capped specs like unholy, warlocks in general, spriests, feral historically often struggled with tuning them properly. But cant deny that most of these are dot focused as well, cant blame the target scaling for all of it 😅

[red knoll]

I dont personally play ec in raid at the moment

Anyone who does be of more help for rotation?

I know it doesnt change much but I assume thrash still has a higher prio than raze

In ec

Because of no DW

In general, the pinned notes have the rotation for raid

But also I would take a build from there, you dont need all that much defensiveness in raid

I think there are defensive options tho

That dont sacrifice KB and stuff like that

@high path are you around

Im a filthy dotc enjoyer

[high path]

Yes hello

What's up

[red knoll]

@grand plinth has some videos but idk if there's any raid ones

This guy trying to learn about raid bear as ec and got confused by all the meme builds

[fringe saddle]

To understand [Red Moon] a little better, even in Druid of the Claw builds, are you holding [Red Moon] to time with a [Lunar Beam] and [Incarnation: Guardian of Ursoc] as much possible, or are you hitting it off CD?

[red knoll]

And was pressing moonfire cuz thats what people told him

[high path]

Just take the all purpose build in here

Don't press moonfire unless gg is up

And press maul

And run the apex

[red knoll]

Generally I hold it for like, one gcd for a mangle to come back up, otherwise press it on cd, but that could be wrong.

[high path]

ideally

[red knoll]

Ideally its in cds

And it lines up

[high path]

You hold rm for lb if at all possible

And you let mangle sit if rm is gonna come off cd soon

In practice

If you're just starting

[red knoll]

In practice you often need the rage to keep up IF anyways

From mangle

[high path]

Send shit on cd

To get a feel for it

[red knoll]

If youre doing juat like normal and heroic

I would only worry about 1 stack of if

Unless youre incredibly undergeared

[fringe saddle]

I’m probably blind, but I’m missing a link somewhere.

[red knoll]

Normal you can probably skip IF completely but thats bad practice

Hell I stopped pressing IF on farm bosses

[fringe saddle]

I’ve liked the idea of making a macro to [Iron Fur] every [Mangle]. I just don’t want to get too lazy and find myself in a bad habit, so I’ve been making sure to press [Iron Fur] whenever it’s gonna expire or stack it up for big attacks.

[red knoll]

I wouldnt macro if to anything in raid

Cuz ur only tanking half the time

I dont macro it even for the meme build in m+ tho

[high path]

#guardian message

[red knoll]

Kekw is nitro only?

Really discord

[high path]

Poor

[red knoll]

I could afford it i just dont wanna give money to a company thats doing what its doing rn

Especially when it has like 0 impact on service

[fringe saddle]

Awesome, thank you!

[red knoll]

I need to level my druid alts to start farming owl

And other forms cuz they made overworld df cap at 80

For reasons

When the best druid form is locked behind fomo and a .01% chance drop

[lapis crystal]

is there like any soft cap u wanna hit with vers for high m+, or do we litterally just go for whatever as long as u got enough haste?

[quaint pond]

there's no reason to desire vers over other stats, and no cap

[lapis crystal]

Aight, cheers

[prisma nova]

is loa worhshippers band any good for m+? Originally made it for feral

[vague hare]

Hello guys if as bear I have myth weapon crit/versa I upgrade it to 298 ilvl or farm the weapon from AA with haste/versa ?

[lapis crystal]

you will get tons of the voidshards

[vague hare]

true

[uneven flame]

anyone got good route for xenas?

i tried taking my friends route but it feels so slow even when things go right, maybe my random groups are not doing enough dmg

oh wait im playing 9-10-11 wrong

[weak trellis]

can anyone help with the patch notes on mmo champ? what exactley do they mean when they say;

Guardian
Guardian Druid Increases damage/healing by 75%: Deft Touch and Regrowth Increases periodic damage/healing by 75%: Deft Touch and Regrowth Increases damage/healing by 15%: Swiftmend Increases periodic damage/healing by 25%: Rejuvenation, Rejuvenation (Germination), Wild Growth Increases damage/healing by 125%: Dire Echo and Thrash Increases periodic damage/healing by 100%: Thrash Increases damage/healing by 30%: Enraged Mangle and Mangle Increases damage/healing by 105%: Lunar Wrath, Moonfire, Red Moon Increases periodic damage/healing by 105%: Lunar Wrath, Moonfire, Red Moon Druid - Guardian Spec. Druid - Guardian Spec.

[uneven flame]

grok what does this say

[forest flume]

i think its just the live hotfixes going into 12.0.7 build

[rustic kestrel]

thats a LOT of pulls

you dont have to do exactly this, especially if you arent pushing high, but this is closer to what a lot of people do

just condensing pulls down will help a lot

[forest flume]

I hate pull 2 so much

but doable

did they nerf feral's ravage when nerfing guardian? or just datamining shenanigans

[quaint pond]

they have the same problem wowhead has, in that they're not really datamining

what they're doing is just comparing tooltip texts

you're not actually seeing the data differnce

[vague hare]

anybody here have macro for trash ?

[sly imp]

hey, not guardian main but wanted to ask about current situation with aggro during pulls
from yesterday I constantly see that even on assa rogue sometimes I can take aggro even after tricks
is it something blizz breaks or it's intended to work like that?

[merry quest]

thats a tank who isnt pushing buttons

aggro us very much secure rn

[sly imp]

isn't currently only thing to press in aoe is thrash?

[merry quest]

even in the cases where people are playing that build, no, thrash alone is more than enough snap aggro if people actually push it

[sly imp]

ok, thx

[half surge]

Guys for m+ what trinks i should go for? i got mythic aln/heart from WS, heroic scale from dragons, mythic banner from 1st boss in raid and hero feather from WS

[olive hare]

Gut feeling says aln+banner, but youre better off simming all of those

[radiant fable]

ye could even combine 6 and 7 if you're feeling saucy

[half surge]

sim is gonna do just a dps... idk what would do best for comfiness

like i did 17 seat and it felt bad at some points

not having a bark or incarn on first few pulls when they fall off

[magic jetty]

does anyone have an idea which build in the pinned link would be best for open world stuff? like prey hunts or skinning or whatever

[rustic kestrel]

probably just some m+ build

its open world you can do whatever tf you want

[half surge]

m+ one is great for this

[olive hare]

Trinkets or gear in general doesnt noticably affect how tanky you feel beyond the ilvl gains, unless there are silly strong tank trinkets, which we dont really have in Mid S1. Scale saw some play, but partially because it helped with out previous snapthreat issues a little. Thats why simming for gear is usually recommended. If you feel like that 17 seat should be less painful, you could share a log and the experts could take a look at it

[novel oar]

what raid talents should i use ?

[fervent ivy]

Hi you guys may get this question a lot i normally play resto druid but recently the tank in my guild has had to leave due to irl stuff how easy is it to pick up for raiding mythic first 3/4 bosses ?

[half surge]

ill try to find it

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/mbAN6RCzXTKkd2Vq

we did 3 tries, it was resil

sorry if i wouldnt be able to reply after some1 takes a look, im in raid rn

but thanks in advance

[novel fern]

would you guys play natural resilience instead of for example brambles in m+? I just did a windrunner 19 with it and it felt nice, 10M absorbing

oh yesterday it was 21 on murlok and now it's 24

so it seems to be the way and people are realizing

[uneven flame]

5th run in a row

where i wipe a key to people just asspulling one of the seers

holy braindamage

[hazy mural]

[novel fern]

which key level?

[rustic kestrel]

no reason to run brambles in m+ tbh its pretty inconsequential

[novel fern]

yes that's why I thought natural resilience would be better, brambles are only good in logs but the tiny absorb won't save your life

and 2% damage is whatever

[hazy mural]

this is what I use, its pretty pug friendly, just a case of chain pulling till kingdom comes

[novel fern]

I'm already HMT anyway so I have one source of gimmicky flat DR

[quaint pond]

maybe one day they'll fix the NR bug and it'll be an even bigger shield

[hazy mural]

u can have both easily too

[hazy mural]

bug?

[novel fern]

imo skip 2nd overseer and instead kill more trash on the right

[quaint pond]

oh it's not in the bugsheet

[rustic kestrel]

yeah not sure what bug youre talking about

[hazy mural]

they not bad... healers like to aoe heal anyways!

[quaint pond]

absorb recieved multiplier like from mastery only works when the shield is first applied, like from the initial tick

[novel fern]

also you can add 1 more mob into pull 2

[rustic kestrel]

oh weird

[quaint pond]

when the shield is updated from subsequent ticks, they forgot to manually factor in the multiplier

it's a game engine limitation that the dev just forgot about

[novel fern]

so the way is to keep taking damage between FR ticks?

[quaint pond]

you could get some really massive shields during full LB if not for the bug

[hazy mural]

dont need the arcanist tho

[rustic kestrel]

its health capped anyways

[hazy mural]

LB

[quaint pond]

yeah mastery counters that

[novel fern]

with the small differences I don't need to do the trash in pull 18

[uneven flame]

i mean fuc kit

the route im trying ot do is just impossible in pug i guess

another wipe

[novel fern]

does bear have some proc that randomly pulls whatever is your target if you target some far away mob to mark it?

[hazy mural]

idk, it works pretty well when we decide not to cc the wrong clone on last boss

[hazy mural]

waking nightmare

[novel fern]

jump away and wrath at 1.5s remaining, ez mode

[quaint pond]

altho hm. i guess technically this is actually a bug that's buffing you, not nerfing you. since mastery already increases raw FR healing amount, you're already getting mastery benefit. so the initial tick is actually double dipping.

[novel fern]

so when I get the clone proc, it spawns on my target?

[half surge]

how its bugged?

exactly how

[quaint pond]

it spawns next to you but there's some script making it tag your target

[hazy mural]

not seen it in a vid yet but it pulled mobs that weren't in combat on logs and looking at the replay, the bear was looking at them

[novel fern]

oh wow so whenever I have a clone out I can pull through walls?

[quaint pond]

idk about thru walls might be a los restirction on the script

[novel fern]

oh well

[quaint pond]

no way to tell since all taht shit is server side

otehr than just try shit out in game and try to break it

[novel fern]

we've had our fun with flap overwall maze pulling, lunar beam pulling targets through walls, so it would be too much to ask for another season of bear pulling through walls

[hazy mural]

could be a way to pull the guys in MT?

[tulip lodge]

I cant seem to connect the dots on Fluid Form with any other talents, would someone explaining briefly why top players are taking that talent?

[quaint pond]

so you can get back into bear form after hotw with a mangle

[novel fern]

you can also just cast bear form yeah

[quaint pond]

ya but that's dps loss

[novel fern]

druid talents all seem valuable to me

at least if we are talking M+

[hazy mural]

every 2 mins tho xD

1 min stamp is my life

[novel fern]

I do 2 points into forestwalk since it procs on every FR

[hazy mural]

even wi th 1 min I want it to be below 1 min a lot

[tulip lodge]

seems costly, so you hit mangle to go to bear form, instead of bear form cast.

[quaint pond]

it's dps vs 0 dps

[rustic kestrel]

fluid form mandatory

go into every pull with 46 rage

too broken

[novel fern]

still 1 talent point opportunity cost

[hazy mural]

hey, but can be a time save to get something that can get u somewhere quicker or have more healing etc

[novel fern]

but he only asked why

[tulip lodge]

what are you proritizing with HotW?

[hazy mural]

cat

unless u wanna pad on a lot of mobs

[novel fern]

I have to sometimes WG if I play with my casual premade healer and we try 19/20s

on boss heal checks

[hazy mural]

is the WG that useful tho?

[tulip lodge]

looking at some top players they go to moonkin, and im not sure if the parser for their spec just doesnt include spells outside guardian but it can look like at times, they shift to boom, and then stampede. what are they actually doing?

[novel fern]

it is minimum 80k per target, probably can crit and get mastery boosted I guess

I mean attack power boosted

[rustic kestrel]

thye're casting hotw

it shows as starfall in damage

but casts doesnt show it properly

[tulip lodge]

ahhh

i see alot of people take that talent I honestly thought it was for the instana cast wild growth, to help iwth healing but thats clearly not it.

[rustic kestrel]

cat hotw does great prio damage, especially on amp phases, moonkin hotw is great for gathering pulls

[tulip lodge]

so its it
/cast boom
/cast hotwo (starfall)
/cast bear ?

ahhh and there comes Fluid Form...

right.. so mangle the first mob and bam back at it.

[vivid oyster]

Hey! I was checking archon and saw feather as a popular trinket, do yall macro this to incarn? I feel like sometimes incarn is up and the trinket still has a bit to go

[tulip lodge]

they have different cooldowns so you'll have to hold on something. at some point

[novel fern]

yes recast the macro when trinket is ready

[tulip lodge]

does anyone have a guide or a url to using hotw in m+? id like to try it but id like to understand it better. like watching some one use it or explain it in detail.

[rustic kestrel]

Starting a pull? Go Moonkin, press hotw, back to bear and do your pull

Want to single target a mob? go cat, hotw, bear

its that simple

[outer cave]

If youre using the meme ec build what do you even use hotw for in dungeons?

Dont have fluid form or bird form talents selected so I guess cat form? Is doing all that even a dps increase compared to continuing to spam moonfire, beam, and thrash?

[rustic kestrel]

it will still be a couple% of your damage, especially on Damage amp bosses

but can also help save time by using it on prio targets

[tulip lodge]

since this set up requires 2 talent points, when you switch back to bear and lunar beam, do the starfall ticks reduce lunar beam on top[ of moonfire?

[rustic kestrel]

no

[tulip lodge]

weak

[coral rampart]

wdym by that?

[novel fern]

feral frenzy does like 3M damage with pot on the 2nd boss of nexus point

[rustic kestrel]

theres a bug with fluid form. When you Mangle, it "charges" your next manual cast of bear form with the amount of rage mangle gave you

So if you mangle, the next time you go to bear form, you get 42 rage, or 46 rage if it was a sotf proc

so you can start every single pull with 46 rage before even hitting a button

[novel fern]

how is that a bug

[tulip lodge]

maybe its not intended.

[novel fern]

oh I see

[rustic kestrel]

you get it just from pressing bear form

not from mangling to get to bear form

[novel fern]

just casting bear form gives you 42 instead of 25

[rustic kestrel]

yes

[novel fern]

man what do I even drop for that

maybe matted fur

[hazy mural]

[outer cave]

That is 3 gcds right? 1 to go to cat, 1 hotw, 1 back to bear.

How much damage would you do in the amp with pot thrashing moonfiring

[coral rampart]

So mangle, then cat, then bear hard cast?

[novel fern]

hotw is not on gcd

[olive hare]

Yeah matted is 100% expendable

[rustic kestrel]

not necessarily mid combat

but lets say you end a pull, go travel form to your next pull

[hazy mural]

matted is awesome!

[outer cave]

My bad, still 2 gcds

[novel fern]

and you would not do 3 M damage in 2 globals without hotw

[rustic kestrel]

when you hit bear as you walk in, boom 42-46 rage

[hazy mural]

its also mastery doubledipping

so bigger shields if u have LB when u press bark or SI

[olive hare]

Matted could be awesome if we didnt have a fluffton of absorb already and another fluffton of trickle arcane healing on top of that

[coral rampart]

Alright, thx!

[hazy mural]

I dont trust healers

so if I ever die, im only blaming myself these days

[novel fern]

this is 2nd boss of nexus point, only a 12 but still 1 cast of 3 M damage

only 20% crit rate

it's nice to have at least something every 2 minutes other than moonfire and thrash

[forest flume]

imagine if we had spells like raze / mangle we could use

sad times

[hazy mural]

living in the past, old man!

[novel fern]

raze takes away rage from ironfur, I think that's super annoying

[hazy mural]

we now use skibidi mf

[novel fern]

but mangle does embarrassing damage why can't we have 120k crits like monk on tiger palm

[forest flume]

I'm going to change all my fun spells to moonfire in macros, and change their icons to raze /mangle

[olive hare]

Me neither, but I trust myself in that I dont need more shields eating my thrash and mf healing Not saying matted fur is bad by any means, but I can absolutely see passing it in favor of boomer hotw, or extra healing received, or moonfire range.

Especially if youre not pushing 20+ (yet) like me

[forest flume]

random log I took from weeks ago, mangle casts

it cleaves

ok, during incarn

[hazy mural]

yh, its just a case of me liking to be as smooth as possible and not letting myself have a chance of dying... its why I hate the adepts so much

[novel fern]

yeah many hits

[novel fern]

I got my dying ptsd from academy battleaxes, 3 synced melee hits and I went from 60 to 0 in a single server tick

[olive hare]

Yeah thats not me. I'm the kind of guy to regen maybe once during carn because I'ma hit that mf like its toi.

[noble ledge]

How is the Thorns of Iron enjoying going

[outer cave]

After you cast hotw cat form it says you get combo points. Use them or just go back to bear?

[rustic kestrel]

ignore them

[novel fern]

it's weird

2 mobs behind the wall evaded and only 1 came

and I tried to pull the magister and not its book

also it took me over a minute to get 1 proc of waking nightmare

[strange herald]

why some use guidon trinket from first boss over 2mn couldown WS trinket?

[novel fern]

they only have guidon, or they don't want to worry about sometimes incarn being lower cd than trinket

[strange herald]

that can happen? incarn under 2mn cld?

[edgy merlin]

If you use mangle yes

with mf rotation it's 2 min in aoe as well

[rustic kestrel]

you can get it down to like 1:45 with lust windows

[strange herald]

ok

[olive hare]

Apex rework idea, SR based Rank 1 resets the cd of SR during carn and gives Maul/raze/ravage extra damage equal to the amount of bleeds they have applied. Rank 2+3 each add duration to SR, based on rage spent. And R4 makes SR apply 5 thrash stacks immediately. BOOM

[novel fern]

or let us go negative on apex points and reduce maul damage to 0 so that we can grab more arcane talents

[rustic kestrel]

just play moonkin

[strange herald]

and have another question, not sure about hotw use. I press in moonkin before huge pull to keep up agro, use on human form on somes encounters huge heal phase to assist. and use on cat for ST on somes boss (especially on dps huge phase like NP or AA. are u sure when u swap cat u only press hotw and dont spend 5 combo point or apply bleed? use hotw on human form to assist heal is trolling<? moonkin use is good or not?

[rustic kestrel]

Moonkins great for spread pulls. Dont use combo points, bite/rip dont scale with bear aura like at all so its 0 damage

[tender field]

moonkin yes cat yes human no. hps isnt dps

[crisp bane]

there is a makro for ironfur?

[rustic kestrel]

Wild growth may help in apinch but if you're depending on wild growth groups probs alrdy dead

./cast ironfur

[strange herald]

ok, i mean on bird in WS for exemple, i sometimes use on dps phase when def cds/ heal cds are off

[rustic kestrel]

it will heal like, 10% of everyones health bars

[olive hare]

Dont be overconfident just because they let you mousewheel enjoyers slide for now. Thats just Blizz realizing how hard they f'ed up apex and bear balancing in general and at least leaving us in a somewhat competitive state from a pure performance pov.

[novel fern]

more like 20%+ it had tooltip healing of 72k when I was low ilvl and it must be more now that I'm caught up

[lucid arrow]

is the eternal egg any decent as a defensive trinket

[outer cave]

Big agree

[novel fern]

I know bear is good only because of the absurdity of aoe threat buff gone wrong and I'm enjoying it while it lasts, I think it's funny and I was always a fan of turtle builds and never liked DotC in M+ due to spending rage on raze

[fallen isle]

Is there an updated priority list for ec guardian anywhere?

[novel fern]

I do thrash > LB > sundering > moonfire and I seem to be parsing okay in M+

I only heard this prio list from streamers on youtube, couldn't find anything here

[rancid sparrow]

Anyone know if there is a ever a point haste loses value?

[quaint pond]

sure, every stat's value changes whenever you get more of it or more/less of any other stat.

[outer cave]

Best I've been able to find is kira tank yt video or dorki or Yoda TV. All basically say the same thing

[quaint pond]

for dps you can sim it, for defensive since it's a vibe pick you'll just have to vibe it

[rancid sparrow]

Are sims up to date with the new EC build?

[quaint pond]

i think so, not sure if it makes any assumptions about purposefully playing sub-optimally tho, if you are doing that.

[olive hare]

Tbh I dont think apex bear is worse for pushing highkeys at all, I still think as long as it can live the top keys, it more than compensates the lack of overall damage with its dps profile. But yeah, some meme overall performances and being a 2 button spam build certainly helped the public perception of bear as a top pushing spec.

[quaint pond]

can prolly eye-test the sample sequence

[olive hare]

But even more so, that both rsham and mwm start giving a rdruid a run for its money, depending on comp.

[novel fern]

in a bear group, mw and rsham are already the pick instead of rdruid

[rancid sparrow]

I just have a sneaky suspicion sims are not great with all the bear shenanigans from this most recent build. Although I have no idea how to check myself lol

[rustic kestrel]

pretty sure its doing slop build rotation

if you do a quick sim you can see the rotation it does

[outer cave]

Icy veins bear m+ guide says to use 3 apex talents and ec

[tulip lodge]

when using HotW and casting FF, do you dump the combo points right after and then mangle back to bear?

[rustic kestrel]

ignore them

[tulip lodge]

christ

seriously

[rustic kestrel]

yeah they do negative damage

[outer cave]

Writer is a master and putting out bait imo

[rancid sparrow]

Hmmm nice to hear

[fringe saddle]

Yeah, I’ll do a [Ferocious Bite] to spend the points, then [Mangle] back into bear form.

[rustic kestrel]

that bite is just tossing a droplet into the ocean

its just more damage to immediately go back to bear

[novel fern]

after seeing this season's brewmaster wowhead guide talents I have to give up on guides, I'll just check murlok it's safer

[tulip lodge]

coming back to this game, i honestly join a class discord, and look at wow logs, between the two you can come to a better understanding of a spec

[quaint pond]

guides are just hit or miss depending on who's writing it

so unless you're familiar with the ppl in the community it's hard to gauge

[olive hare]

Beware though, it seems like catha hooked the different priorities to apex only. Meaning if you sim with mangle enhancing talents, raze or maul enhancing talents outside of apex, it will still act like youre playing the mf spam build.

[outer cave]

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/guardian-druid-pve-tank-mythic-plus-tips was ec with 3/4 apex ever best for m+?

[quaint pond]

ya in beta

[rustic kestrel]

for the week it was bugged

[tulip lodge]

i see a lot of people talk about KB but it seems like no one actually uses that talent.

[novel fern]

it's rare to see top 50 pushers in a class discord

[tropic snow]

It got nerfed. Now your spending 50% more rage to do 70% more dmg. It's mostly just a gcd saver.

[olive hare]

Mass inertia. All it takes is one topkey parse to start the copycatting.

[tulip lodge]

true

[outer cave]

What's kb

[olive hare]

killing blow

[tropic snow]

Maul and Raze may consume up to 20 more Rage to deal up to 70% additional damage.

[olive hare]

Theres a variation of the nopex build which skips on sundering roar and brambles to allow for raze + killing blow. Mostly for the purpose of giving rage an offensive hook (which in return makes mangle better) and turning some of those dead mf globals into decent prio damage with a little aoe attached.

[novel fern]

for the cost of fewer Ironfur and lunar beams, it is scary to try it for pushing without seeing it work first

[olive hare]

at the benefit of higher ursoc shields since you still get the whole thrash bang, but also some raze bang on top of it

but yeah its a tradeoff

(and i dont think its a good one. If you wanna play maul/raze, go apex. If not go no apex)

[uneven flame]

what do you all do

against academy 1st pull stacks

[violet holly]

focus 1 big plant

and then you can kite and survive ezpz

everyone should do that (dps should focus)

and pull at the same time so you can sync the casts

[uneven flame]

how am i supposed to kite

theyre as fast as me

[violet holly]

so

first make sure you pull them all at the same time, you can aggro the little plants to aggro every pack

[olive hare]

Thats theory. Reality is each dps player randomly picks a lasher and ignores the skull one. And ofc early attacks one lasher pack so the sync never happens

[violet holly]

this way casts are synced

you can mark skull on whatever big add and tell everyone to focus

tell them before the key starts

then you gotta stand and survive until one die

if you lust focus it should take like your incarn time and maybe a few more seconds

after that you can look at the casts of the other plants

if they start to cast then your bleed is going to reset(at 5 stacks again probably)

if not then you can roar and run

because they only start casting if you are in melee range

[olive hare]

Long story short. During incarn its whatever, just sac a little bit of dps for some regens. Once carn drops, cycle bark - si - si and thats when you'll wanna hit regen, shift travel form and jump out. Or stamp roar or whatever to create space.

[violet holly]

once they start they will finish

once there's only 2 mobs there is no time for the bleed to stack to 5

if the casts are synced

so you are safe after that

[uneven flame]

idk

maybe u guys can help me with this one

[versed chasm]

i have a question about threat generation

talents like tough as nails from warrior or the spikes thing for dh have a generates high threat tooltip

does brambles work like this for druid as well ? because even though i coordinate with my grp to hit the mob i taunted as well sometimes aggro isnt enough with moonfire and thrash etc while gathering

apart from brambles doing initial dmg when mob is pulled and hits you i mean which is obviously more aggro

[violet holly]

so first thing I see is you can start the pull not so close to the first group, can be like where boss is and moonfire 3 little adds

second is no priority

idk but the vile lasher hp is like at 75% for the whole duration

[uneven flame]

imean i can see multiple mistakes

from myself

but thing like pull range is good

[violet holly]

after you die every lasher is at 40% hp

[uneven flame]

yeah idk

[violet holly]

this is the mistake

need to focus one

[rustic kestrel]

Alright so a lot of easy fixes here.

1. Start the pull with moonkin heart of the wild, you will get it all grouped much quicker and easier.

2. No need to incarn on pull, theres little danger at the start, you can hold it for a little bit.

You cant kite without movespeed, you need roar, it that clip you just start slow walking away and stopped hitting all abilities

[uneven flame]

i cba heart of the wild shit that shouldnt be necessary

point 2 is good to know though

does my CC work on the lashers

[rustic kestrel]

No

[uneven flame]

so i need speed

[rustic kestrel]

Also you just kind of pressed no buttons the entire time

[uneven flame]

yes i know

at the end

[rustic kestrel]

You lost your target

You pressed ironfur once that whole clip, gotta use your rage

If you dont want to hotw moonkin thats fine, but thats the best pull in the game for it

[thick gorge]

Sup guys, i'm trying to help a guardian druid friend with his parses.

When i compare his dmg on logs with top logs he has a similar breakdown.

The one big difference is the Avg Cast dmg on his trash that is like 100k lower than a top log.

Can this be due to a bad use of Sundering roar ?

(he is the right one on the screen)

Both parses are from a Spire +21

[violet holly]

nothing works on the big ones

[uneven flame]

idk i did a 15 a week ago and it felt like a breeze i could just facetank everything

xdd

maybe i shouldve just stood still and spammed IF and stood in shaman totem who knows

[violet holly]

main thing is the focus on one add

if you know they its being focused then you can chill and just rotate your cds etc

and by the time you are out of cds there will only be 2

and then you can roar kite etc

[violet holly]

check talent builds, and sundering roar should not have that much impact so thats prob not the issue

[violet holly]

brambles does generate threat but its damage is very low so its only like the very first instance of dmg the mob takes, you need to thrash/mangle to secure aggro

with the buffs to thrash its enough to hold threat while you are gathering

[thick gorge]

They have the same talents except the left one uses brambles instead of the regen shield

[rustic kestrel]

need actual log links, not screenshots

[quick schooner]

Is there general rule which set piece we can sacrifice for crafted item? I can cata head with socket and today i got myth boots from raid so i'm replacing wrists for embelishment craft but i can do 1 more, breaking set rings without myth variants seems pointless

[versed chasm]

yeah but does it have the same code like touch as nails / spikes talent from dh ?

that " generates high threat "

[quaint pond]

nobody knows, that code is scripted

does it even work on dh/war?

[versed chasm]

i mean thats what the tooltip says

[quaint pond]

tooltips don't matter

[versed chasm]

u cant really measure threat can u

[quaint pond]

idk if those apis are still there

or if they got yanked in the addon pruning

[versed chasm]

because the fact that a mob hits u on gather and takes dmg ofc generates aggro and threat but how much % is the " generates high threat " code

[quaint pond]

you'd have to ask in teh dh/war discord and see if anyone actually tested those via the threat api

[violet holly]

well brambles does not generate high threat

[north wigeon]

Is there an addon to show non-boss casts timers in M+?

[rustic kestrel]

exboss

you have to jump through a couple hoops and theres a bunch of setup so id look for a guide

[hazy mural]

still mad blizz hasnt shut it down

if they let that pass im actually gonna be so mad I supported their addon stuff xD

[rustic kestrel]

the addon purge was a failure

pull the ripcord

[quick schooner]

I've noticed top top bear which is currently Andymeow running apex build? Did our main build change again or we still can do thrash gaming with no problems? Jesus with 25 nerfs and changes a month im so lost currently

[hazy mural]

they cant go back on it so they just doubling down and making things worse...

[violet holly]

both builds are viable

[hazy mural]

did u know as heals, I dont know who has the nasty debuff on em from those guys in the 2nd boss MT area?

[tropic otter]

anyone got a good guardian ui? my warlock ui is completley choped for this spec

[hazy mural]

all I can do is watch for whose health drops quick, oh ok u must have it then

and then dont know if they have 2 stacks or not

[thick gorge]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/RjHDTZcF2q6mbva7?fight=5&type=damage-done

[brazen tinsel]

you probably just caught him with his raid talents

he is definitely playing nopex

[thick gorge]

This is our WRS +21 run

clean run overall

deathless

3min30 ahead of timer

[north wigeon]

TY

[queen flame]

myth skyreach wep with avoidance or chim mythic without avoidance?

[halcyon heron]

I'd still go Chim I think

[north wigeon]

anyone has a decent exboss profile for tanks?

[brittle bronze]

does this look okay for 12's-15's, (wrong setup in previous post deleted it)

[quick schooner]

Oh, i filtered raiderio on guardians and IT seems messy af right now. Ferals, restos mixed. Oki then keepin no apex thank you guys

[mental notch]

What ilvl you think you can get away with being able to tank a 10-12

[halcyon heron]

Just go to Murlok.io and check the most commonly used builds or the top guy's build

[halcyon heron]

I tanked a 12 the same day I dinged with like 258 I'll or so

[mental notch]

Nice

[halcyon heron]

It was AA i think too and my Holy Pala friend said he was in shock that the first pull went so smoothly xD

[hazy mural]

if u wanna use reinvigoration, it is best to go with dream of cenarius as dream guide is bugged and u lose stacks when u frenied regen but u dont get the benefit applied to the regrowths

[hazy mural]

id also move out the 1 point in apex, it isnt very good for that build

[brittle bronze]

okay thank you, i will try to fix it then, will also check murlok too like jatsi suggested

[forest flume]

whew, timed a MT-16 on my prot paladin

it is not as simple as on druid or monk

[warm aurora]

Hi Guardianboiz, could y'all take a peak at my logs from this run? Feels like I am taking a lot of damage.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/brVPatgvYGdX8QB6?type=damage-done&fight=1&by=source

[brazen tinsel]

do you not have advanced combat logging enabled in your ingame settings?

log looks hella scuffed

[forest flume]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/brVPatgvYGdX8QB6?type=damage-taken&fight=1&source=11&ability=1&sourcebuffs=-192081

all the melee hits you took without ironfur up

[warm aurora]

@brazen tinsel It is up, not sure why it turned out that way

I'm kinda spamming iron fur mindlessly as I get rage... maybe I should be spacing them out more?

[violet holly]

do you have ironfur macroed?

[warm aurora]

Negative

[violet holly]

good, then it's just about not mindlessly spamming it and keeping track of the buff

[warm aurora]

Yee, thank you

[violet holly]

I think you can use wowanalyzer as well

to check for defensive usage

always use bark and si preempively not reactively

[slate mountain]

Hey ! I have a quick question I have the gaze 298 but simc told me to take it off (for 2.1% gain)... what should I do ? Everyone play gaze

[red knoll]

uh

wdt

@high path

[high path]

can i see the sim

[copper hornet]

link sim

screenshots are useless

[patent bone]

did our stats change at all or is haste/vers still the go to ?

for m+

[languid yacht]

it probably depends on what key level you're doing tbh

[patent bone]

just like 16ish

[languid yacht]

ppl who know better in here can correct me, but i think as key lvl goes up the value of dodge (crit) also goes up relative to mastery

but at like 15-16 idk it kind of seems like it matters less, so long as you're pressing your buttons

maybe i'm wrong and too optimistic xd

[mossy sundial]

im grey parsing keys

is that cause of the nerf

i cant seem to get past 120k

[slate mountain]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/2oS63aeY1K8hsPSkAz55rj

yes ofc sry...

[ashen depot]

40s with lust might be a tiny bit misleading

[slate mountain]

wtf

what did i do

[shut jasper]

simming different 3 ring enchants but avoiding the best one is funny

[slate mountain]

Oh I remembered... it was for my balance on belo I'm so..

[ashen depot]

also while less relevant where do you see the 2.1% difference?

says to me 100 dps dif

[shut jasper]

yeah it's .1

[ashen depot]

which is like .1%

[slate mountain]

https://www.raidbots.com/simbot/report/5326rcTAEz193pA4AXhN8d

[shut jasper]

just within margin of error difference

so yeah it wants gaze + ooze, which isn't all that surprising given the ilvls

[slate mountain]

yes it makes more sens now ^^'

srry for the bad question

[red knoll]

ooze isnt all that bad for us so yeah it makes sense

like obviously i think other trinkets are better but there are a lot worse options

[onyx sonnet]

Sometimes just takes a second or third set of eyes! It’s a mistake anyone could make.

[shut jasper]

yup, happens

[bitter storm]

At what breakpoints (if any) should I be considering mastery or crit over haste/vers? Or is it basically just haste/vers wherever you can get it?

[sleek lintel]

It feels so silly to have a 298 weapon on a character that's not even 270+ yet

[bitter storm]

To clarify what I mean, if I could get haste/vers on every single piece (which I can't, because of tier not having it in every slot, but anyways), would that be good? Or where is the point at which crit/mastery become desirable?

[quaint pond]

vers isn't desirable in the first place

you can either sim your items for dps, or just vibe it out by taking haste/X since ppl like faster gcd

[sweet pawn]

What m+ keys start to feel less about gear and more about every mechanic? Doing 14s and 15s and STRUGGLING

[bitter storm]

Oh really? Many guides suggest vers as the second-best stat (after haste), odd

[quaint pond]

guides are often using outdated info

[sweet pawn]

Thats what I see everywhere also. Was stacking haste/vers

[bitter storm]

So is it just "haste is king" and everything else is just "good to have some of, don't overstack any one of these"?

[quaint pond]

haste isn't even king it's just vibed

[sleek lintel]

All stats are bear stats. Get ilvl and vibe

[quaint pond]

if you want some kind of measurable way to make a choice, you can sim

[bitter storm]

I'm mostly just trying to be more survivable, damage isn't really a problem (and I'd rather be 1% tankier than do 1% more damage), but tank sims aren't really a thing

[sleek lintel]

Ilvl

[quaint pond]

damage is survival

[sleek lintel]

All stats have tank benefit

[onyx sonnet]

https://tenor.com/view/the-simpsons-bart-vibe-groove-dance-gif-15287212887189905850

[sleek lintel]

As any good healer will tell you the pain stops the moment something is dead

Dps is reducing future damage

[bitter storm]

Hmmmm...

[copper hornet]

nobody optimizes for survival as thats too vague and generally not useful anyway

[bitter storm]

Fair

[copper hornet]

Playing properly means you survive regardless

[quaint pond]

it only matters at very edge where you're trying to survive a one-shot

and that you can just calculate out using some website/tools

[sleek lintel]

It's a forever question. I remember BfA when people asked about Vers corruptions for their weekly 15s

[bitter storm]

Gotcha

[quaint pond]

well that was a legit question in bfa

because you could get enough vers to make a noticeable difference

you can't do that now

[sleek lintel]

Never understood people who wanted to give up Twilight dev in low keys

[sleek lintel]

Not for the keys most people were asking about from what I remember. They asked because people doing world record keys were doing it and they wanted to know why it wasn't recommended for all

[quaint pond]

even low keys you could feel it

[bitter storm]

I've more or less just been following the BiS list without thinking about it and figured I should try and get a bit more insight, but seems like it's essentially gear what I can, ilvl is (for the most part) the biggest factor, all the stats are good and BiS is relatively minor most of the time? Is that basically the gist?

[quaint pond]

there's just not enough available ratings right now to get vers DR that high

it's more bis lists are just clickbait

they're just vibed out

[bitter storm]

Fair enough

[quaint pond]

the website force guide writers to put 'em up early so they can get better google hits

it doesn't have to be right just has to be up before the other guy

[bitter storm]

The "BiS" items will still be good, they just aren't worth forcing your entire build into that particular niche (especially when balance changes could alter stuff anyways)

[quaint pond]

usually but not always since they'll often be forced to put something up before ppl even know how it works, happens a lot with trinkets

and diff guide writers take diff care in actually updating what they put up

[bitter storm]

True, Heart of Wind and Emberwing Feather are both good for us though, yes?

(Those are the two I'm currently running)

[quaint pond]

ya stat trinkets are generally decent unless blizz messes up and severely undertunes one

[bitter storm]

Sounds good then, I'll just aim for putting myth in my other slots (I have been targeting the "BiS" pieces in general, but they haven't exactly been problematic so far so I'm happy)

[storm fractal]

Hey I am not feeling as tanky as I should. And I am not sure why. How do you utilize FR and do you even use it actively? And do we LB while gather or only once everything stands still?

[fallen isle]

If I'm just gearing up on a new bear, should i send my bonus rolls at nexus or should i do seat to get as many mythic slots as possible

[spice dome]

Any leatherworker online? 😄 silvermoon alliance

[mossy minnow]

WS usually, good spread coverage and the trinkets are way better than seat

[onyx sonnet]

^^ this is also what I did

[vital garnet]

Question - I have a 298 guidon and a 285 plume. For mythic + what we thinking is better? Sorry if this has been answered

[onyx sonnet]

Then after I got both trinkets I did droptimizer

[sour oracle]

hello, did the apexless build stood the same after the nerf? or it changed

[fallen isle]

I'm aiming for gaze + heart, not sure how much i care about the other 2 trinkets from WS

[mossy minnow]

but they're better than getting the seat trinkets on a roll, and WS has a weapon

[fierce saddle]

Hello, AA before The last boss, u take the 2 big mob +big mob and caster inside? Or get 2 outside and 2 inside, we break key 19 here. Tonight 😅

[onyx sonnet]

You can aim for Gaze, but it could take weeks

[fallen isle]

what do we craft now? i see alot of people with chest + cloak, as opposed to belt/boots/bracers as recommended typically

[lament dock]

I do 2 outside and then pull the other 2 onto boss, personally

[red knoll]

yo big for the acct

wish it was leech like my pbox but

oh well

Anyone done paladins

on myth

[oblique moat]

sorry this is a druid server

[red knoll]

i will throttle ninetails

okay so im finding out which people in my group dont know shapes

[olive compass]

i cant keep farming crests on druid man

its too painful

400/900 💀

[covert stone]

Do we still don’t really care about 2P/4P for m+?

[fallen robin]

Huh? 2p is always worth it, 4p does nothing if you don't press Maul/Raze/Ravage. But there's no reason to drop it unless you're maxed on gear. The difference in secondaries is insignificant in terms of an effect on damage/survivability.

2P says "Increases Moonfire damage by 10%" as well as "Increases Maul/Raze/Ravage damage by 10%"

[covert stone]

Why do you “huh” me tho?

[fallen robin]

More curious what gain you want to drop it for.

[daring nymph]

Very strange question

You should always try and get your tierset

[fallen robin]

The difference in secondary stats is extremely small and would almost never be the difference between timing a key or killing a boss.

Less than 1% of the time.

[covert stone]

If you don’t press the spell, no point to go for 4P. I don’t get what’s weird about it.

[fallen robin]

If you already have 4p (which is free with catalyst charges at this point in the season) there is no reason to drop it.

[covert stone]

I prefer to have more haste/vers

[daring nymph]

I mean ideally

You should press maul in st

So you still benefit

[covert stone]

That’s not what people are saying

[fallen robin]

The value of secondaries for Guardian Druid is not as strong as ilvl.

[daring nymph]

Since boss damage is a thing in keys

[fallen robin]

So under no circumstances should you drop 4p for lower ilvl.

[covert stone]

? Everyone is going for haste for 20+

[daring nymph]

So yes you benefit from 4pc in keys

[olive hare]

Well the point is, you still do hit the spell with 4p equipped, or at least you should in in one or two target situations like bossfights. Also your initial statement was weird, at no point anyone said we dont care about 4p with no apex. Its just not worth dropping ilvl for it.

[fallen robin]

Agi is the best stat

[covert stone]

There is a reason

[covert stone]

Huh? Yea of course

[fallen robin]

No but you shouldn't trade away a myth piece for secondary stats

[covert stone]

I mean check top Druids M+. Half of them drop it.

[fallen robin]

And I would only take a myth piece in a slot I already have one in if I have bad luck in vault and not enough slots for rerolls.

[covert stone]

And last time some people were claiming 4P is not useful for m+

[daring nymph]

That was pre nerf

[fallen robin]

Those top druids probably have drops from myth raid, so they are capped on gear.

[daring nymph]

And even then it was debateable

[olive hare]

Half of top Druids M+ dont use maul despite it being a dps gain on bosses. Being a Top IO player doesnt mean you play your spec to its full potencial. It just means you understand the game and have a ton of time.

[daring nymph]

Cause again

[covert stone]

20+ is not top

[daring nymph]

You should press maul and mangle in bosses or prio target situation

[fallen robin]

I guess the bigger question is what choice are you making? Is this influencing a vault choice or just thinking long term?

[daring nymph]

But I feel like your kinda have your mind made up

So

You do what u want

[covert stone]

I just don’t really appreciate the “weird” tag while it’s still a debate.

[olive hare]

Careful though, Maul is a dps gain, mangle is not, unless youre talented into sotf and mangle crit chance.

[daring nymph]

More rage =more incarn

More incsrn means more Overal dps

[daring nymph]

I mean, it’s not much of a debate

[olive hare]

less impactful than more lb, sims confirm.

[fallen robin]

The initial "huh" was more about dropping 2p than 4p. Apologies if that came off weird.

[daring nymph]

Also can use kb and give more value to maul and mangle

[covert stone]

You just don’t say that anyway. It’s education

[daring nymph]

It’s also not black and white

[fallen robin]

If there's a good reason to drop 2p I'm all ears.

[daring nymph]

You want to focus on overal dps pad or have useful dps on keys

Are you doing weekly keys where nothing matters

Or doing actual content

I don’t think dropping 4pc is a gain anywhere

[covert stone]

20+ I am rerolling

[daring nymph]

Kk

So

U want aoe pad

Or have useful damage?

[covert stone]

I don’t know yet

Depending on the future comp I guess

[daring nymph]

Fair enough

Okay just play around, I don’t suggest dropping 4pc at all. But you can if you want to just do big overal dps

[covert stone]

It’s just confusing to see half of the Druid droping 4P and some don’t. That’s what I was asking about updates.

[daring nymph]

If you want to actually progress then I would def push prio and boss damage since bear Overal is already crazy

[daring nymph]

For fun basically

Easiest season of keys in the history of the game

So you can do things that wouldn’t fly in other seasons

Like going full overal pad for fun

[covert stone]

So you press Maule for boss ST now?

[fallen robin]

I would check what they're doing in those top logs if you're curious.

[daring nymph]

Should always do that if you don’t need to iron for

[olive hare]

tbh these hyperboles dont rly help either. Just because a profile is aoe centric its not necessarily pad. I dont think it interferes with funnel dps at all because of its sustained nature. As much as we'd like apex builds to be the better highkey choice, they're not currently. If it was a thing, dreamrage wouldnt have gone for no apex as well.

[fallen robin]

The general advice here has always been to press Maul with 4p proc.

[covert stone]

I’m quite sure iron is a prio is 20+ but I don’t know yet.

But I see the point

Either def mod or attack mod

Like burst phase you go maule

[daring nymph]

Iron fur is your active defensive spender

[covert stone]

IE last boss seat

[daring nymph]

It stacks, if you don’t need to press iron fur then you use your offensive spender maul

[fallen robin]

Mangle also does good ST, plus gives you more rage for IF.

[cinder blaze]

Is Bear's 4pc not worthwhile in keys?

[covert stone]

Hahaha

See

[fallen robin]

If you don't press Maul it does nothing

[covert stone]

People are confuse

[fallen robin]

But you should be always looking for ilvl and Agi.

[olive hare]

Can thank the youtuber elite for that though. A lot of misinformation is spread regarding that fresh build.

[covert stone]

Yea and they all say go haste/vers and here it’s the doesn’t matter mod

So idk

[fallen robin]

It's hard when people are capped on gear and are making a decision from a different situation.

[covert stone]

I will make my own opinion once back in 19s

[fallen robin]

But secondary stats are 99% not what makes you live vs how you play. Because you will always have some amount of them.

Optimizing it is lower priority on Guardian than it on a DPS spec

And even then, our secondary optimization is not very extreme.

[olive compass]

its literally just vibes

[covert stone]

Also is there rotation guide M+ post nerf updated somewhere?

[olive compass]

same shit as MoH/SP for brew etc..

[fallen robin]

Nothing has changed from pre-nerf.

[covert stone]

👍

[hexed trench]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/thAc3Lb69BzpwmTx?fight=last&pull=8&type=damage-done&source=30 can someone explain to me why my dmg is so low?

[daring nymph]

Very worth it

Please use maul and mangle on bosses

[rustic kestrel]

your cpm overall is low, just a lot of downtime

thrash isnt being pressed on cd a lot

for example, a random log from squish has 25 more button presses per minute than yours

[topaz sparrow]

Guys in skyreach - depth of the dawn / solar flare packs - they wreck me. what do they do that hurts so bad and what am I doing wrong

[fallen robin]

Adepts of the Dawn? Usually it's resetting bleed stacks.

[topaz sparrow]

im fine, then suddenly 75%, 50%, dead. in like 2 seconds

[bitter storm]

Yeah it's the Fiery Talon debuff, you need to kite them a bit (or otherwise have your group periodically CC them) so it's not stacking up to absurd numbers

[fallen robin]

Are you letting your stacks get too high?

Do you have a log?

[bitter storm]

It has a very short duration but if it gets another stack the duration refreshes

(Definitely didn't learn this the hard way)

[topaz sparrow]

okay thanks

are they stunnable?

[bitter storm]

I believe they're fully CC'able? Not 100% sure, it's been a little bit since I did Skyreach

[topaz sparrow]

and of course it wasn't a problem on my monk, its when I switched to druid I start dying

[bitter storm]

You probably move around more on your monk yeah?

[topaz sparrow]

im like what are these mechanics I have to do now

probably more ya

[bitter storm]

The debuff I think lasts for a second or so, so even just a bit of movement is enough that they have to chase you and drop stacks, sometimes it may be worth dropping typhoon and/or ursols to get a bit of distance and drop your stacks if they get high, but other than that it's a slow kite I'm pretty sure

Helps if you have CC in your group of course, or if they die fast enough that your stacks don't get high enough to kill you

[red knoll]

Monk dodged enough to drop stacks

Druid doesnt do that

[bitter storm]

Aaahhh that'd do it too

Does parry also prevent stacks?

If so, that'd explain why my DK didn't struggle as much as my Druid

[hexed trench]

yeah Idk on a target dummy for 2:10 secs I''m only pulling 35.6k and that is making sure I'm casting thrash on cd and just spamming moonfire repeatedly

[red knoll]

Yes its getting hit by their melee attacks that causes the debuff to stack

[bitter storm]

Makes sense, explains why I only really had big issues when I played my Druid

At least, until I was aware of the debuff stacking lol

[olive hare]

DK is super strong against those with its baseline kit. AMS prevents talon stacks and you have that huge dnd slow from grip of the dead which helps a ton with kiting

[bitter storm]

Yup, admittedly I wasn't kiting them at all but I did use AMS, so the parry chance and AMS did enough mitigation that it never became an issue

[vagrant ocean]

What’s BIS trinkets for m+

Is it just gaze and wind?

[abstract raven]

Yesh

Plum is good too

[vagrant ocean]

Theoretically speaking is a myth plume better then a myth gaze

[abstract raven]

But hast value now with how much of your damage is thrash kinda want a Hart

[abstract raven]

Gaze but you’d have to sim it with your gear

[vagrant ocean]

What about plume vs wind

[abstract raven]

Yet again sim yourself

[vagrant ocean]

is sim gonna tell me where I went wrong in life damn

[abstract raven]

Probs

[vagrant ocean]

do you have to always have bark starting a pull?

[abstract raven]

Yep

And then mid pull

Depening on Key lvl

But you want SI or bark on pull

[vagrant ocean]

Do you just die without?

Like you can’t setup a big pull without

[abstract raven]

Depends on key lvl

[strange hazel]

And how big the pull is

[abstract raven]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ui9Wg0MyMlo

[vagrant ocean]

Bro that trash is fodder

How

[abstract raven]

9/10 you will need Incarn + SI/Bark going in once you get cozy having just Bark or SI is good enough once you get everything rolling

[bitter storm]

I mean that's prolly at least an 18, likely 20, those guys hit hard enough that it matters if you don't have a defensive up

[vagrant ocean]

Was this pre nerf Druid?

[vagrant ocean]

^

[abstract raven]

Ye

[vagrant ocean]

Lmao

But bro had incarn going in

[grand plinth]

Simul melees cranks

[abstract raven]

At currant ilvl 18s are “easier” then you think

[bitter storm]

Oh for sure, more just "oh this wasn't a baby 10 key where you can get away with face-tanking"

[abstract raven]

Yep got close to a 1 shot lol the other day in a 19 bloody Warrior fell off

[vagrant ocean]

First pull of nexus sounds so shit huh

Like a 30 second gather omegalul

[abstract raven]

Yesh I don’t do the left pull I pull hole first room with hero

[vagrant ocean]

And null sunders in the back

[grand plinth]

The first pull isnt the issue

its the second one

[abstract raven]

Oh Yesh though it would show the fact it’s Nowh lol 😂 would of been a 21 or somthing

[vagrant ocean]

Why

[abstract raven]

Up the too the 1 st boss is gross

[grand plinth]

4 defenders no cds

[abstract raven]

As big no hero & CDs

[grand plinth]

Like the first pull you have incarn

[vagrant ocean]

guardian still meta tank right?

[grand plinth]

probably

[abstract raven]

23s still happening on Bear but Bear probs only “meta” coz Mw is just so much better then Rdruid

[vagrant ocean]

I have a charge of SI going in and bark comes in like 10 seconds in

[bitter storm]

Definitely up there, things should be a bit closer now with the buffs other tanks got but Bear is absolutely strong still

[vagrant ocean]

So is mw was same level as Druid then brew and bear would be equal?

[abstract raven]

BDK stocks are actually really good now

[bitter storm]

Yeah I've been having fun with my DK, feels good now

[abstract raven]

Mw is way better then Rdruid atm when you look at the fact Mw dose 50k overall and Rdruid dose 10

[grand plinth]

sorry I meant like your dps

Cause everyone slams on lust

so that pull lives forever

and you don't have enough to cycle through the whole thing

[abstract raven]

Just lvled mine

[grand plinth]

as you have to kite it and stuff

[vagrant ocean]

You have to Ursol and typhoon?

[grand plinth]

yes that is part of kiting

[vagrant ocean]

I thought kiting on tank is like your bad

Cause you have to kite

[strange hazel]

?

[grand plinth]

No sometiems you have to

Thats the way things work

[bitter storm]

My DK is mostly DPS while I tank on my druid, but I do play some feral and some blood so I have cross-spec experience

[strange hazel]

That's like saying "I thought taking damage as tank means you're bad"

[grand plinth]

I mean you shouldn't be doing it perma

[strange hazel]

It's literally your job to kite if it meanns survivng

[grand plinth]

But like at really high keys stuff isnt dying in your incarn or bark

[vagrant ocean]

Also moonfire has no threat bruh

[grand plinth]

and sometiems you have to kitew mobs

[vagrant ocean]

Legit 0 threat

[grand plinth]

and like again I think context matters a lot here

[abstract raven]

I’ve only done keys as Tank this session but I raid as Havoc getting closer to title keys :S maybe one day I’ll get there

[bitter storm]

My M+ group usually ends up having me tank, which I'm fairly happy with in general

I usually raid as Unholy

[vagrant ocean]

They need to bring back like df s2 guardian

Make ursocs fury 60% and have raze also add to the shield

Bring back the full top regrowths

That was nice

[abstract raven]

Ah Yesh fair mine too TBH but I also pug more then not and just bring a tank is so much more simple

And we play Phys

[vagrant ocean]

I think brew is just better as phys

[abstract raven]

Not when you play with a Mw 1 trick

[vagrant ocean]

Well true

Typical phys comp has rsham

[abstract raven]

Not always

[bitter storm]

I surprisingly haven't had many issues pugging as DPS or tank, although ngl it's really annoying when people pull stuff for me as tank. I'm not baby pulling or anything, but I tend to err on the slightly safe side rather than going hog wild

[vagrant ocean]

Also I hate getting threat on the crawth birds guys

[bitter storm]

Same

[vagrant ocean]

Dh always colllapsing star when their coming down and rip threat

And then type tank?

😭

[bitter storm]

LOL

That's their own fault

[abstract raven]

Don’t play wit them play Suv/Rouge/War don’t have to put up with DDH pulling for the tank coz they don’t wanna fall out of meta

[vagrant ocean]

idk like I’m trying to think what I do better but thrash has a cd and collapsing star just boom

Happens during seat when setting up pulls too

[abstract raven]

Yesh man it's so annoying

[vagrant ocean]

Like bringing mobs to rift callers

They collapse the trash

And just get charged by champions

And it’s always tank?

[bitter storm]

What really sucks is when you're doing the first pull of MC and people decide to smack the berserkers while you're still running up to the caster guy, then get smacked and are confused

[abstract raven]

Hold trash but once your in too the pull you shouldn't lose
Agro

[vagrant ocean]

I pull a champion pack where the little guys are near second boss room to that rift

[abstract raven]

Hahah yesh

[vagrant ocean]

And when pulling it into rift

Dh collapse star and ripped

And got double champ charged

And got mad at me

[bitter storm]

The champ charge is no joke even as a tank

[abstract raven]

Don't know plagDOTC use Ravage never really had a agro problem

[vagrant ocean]

You don’t play meta build?

[abstract raven]

There is no meta build
Lol there is 6 different builds you can play

[vagrant ocean]

EC thrash moonfire build

Is meta

[abstract raven]

@grand plinth plays Dotc no Raze build

[vagrant ocean]

in m+

[midnight orchid]

someone mind lending me a hand, my dh is snatching aggro occasionally and apparently, according to logs, it's immolation aura?

[vagrant ocean]

Is it not?

[grand plinth]

It is meta but I'm pretty sure its worse

[abstract raven]

It is not lol there is 6 different builds its the easiest to play but bry & Gnom play it

DOTC

[vagrant ocean]

In terms of?

[grand plinth]

I looked at my logs versus the EC logs

and if you take out stuff that doesnt matter

[abstract raven]

Pad damage and Dotc isn't

[grand plinth]

Like lashers and voidlings and stuff

I do more overall

[abstract raven]

And a lot more stuff Bry can go over

[grand plinth]

and like 8k more ST

[vagrant ocean]

It’s good overall tho :p

[midnight orchid]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/WdcK29CxhktHrAvz?fight=6&type=damage-taken&source=5&ability=1
apparently immo aura caused these to melee the dh.

[grand plinth]

Yeah but who cares

If you do 20k more to the lashers

[abstract raven]

Witch means nothing lol

[grand plinth]

they speeds up your key 0 seconds

In fact it slows it down

Cause it kills your dps funnel

[vagrant ocean]

Then using that logic brew has better damage then bear

[abstract raven]

Yes but Mw is meta

[grand plinth]

and?

[abstract raven]

Started playing more Dotc and it's fells quote nice on “harder keys” Eg AA

[vagrant ocean]

It’s good in like every pull except first

Like the vex pull it’s good

[grand plinth]

Again but I would argue dotc is better there

More burst dmg

Like everytime you're in incarn DOTC is better than EC

[vagrant ocean]

Yea but it’s more buttons

[grand plinth]

I mean sure

No one is saying you have to play it

[vagrant ocean]

My iron fur is macroed to moonfire

[vagrant ocean]

Is this just because of the nerf?

[abstract raven]

In my DOTC mins in Thrash

[vagrant ocean]

It’s haste>vers>crit>mast right

People keep saying some stats are equal

[abstract raven]

Hast then what ever sims best

Hast for Thrash CDR

[vagrant ocean]

lol

it’s bry

Damn

Bry your 21 resi?

[abstract raven]

Yesh he is top 10 bear NA

[abstract raven]

He is

Lol also just saying unless your doing 22-23s I don't think it trually Matera what build you play same with your comp I played 2 of the same class for alot of my keys this session

[vagrant ocean]

I feel like gear on guardian Druid matters like less then other tanks

290 or 280 you still die setting up pulls improperly

and like u genuinely have to learn and muscle memory

On how to do it

Maisara first pull is soooo bad bear oneshots berserkers can global