guardian

[outer cave]

bear is still best tank by a mile

time to get back to levelling the OP bear 🙁

[grand plinth]

Someone nearly called the time too

[sturdy spear]

guys

[devout depot]

how bad is it for nerf?

[sturdy spear]

I just need to say

[sudden leaf]

dont listen to the mage guy

[still mural]

https://tenor.com/view/michael-scott-the-office-steve-carell-oh-my-god-its-happening-gif-17270692

[grand plinth]

Its not that bad

[outer cave]

worlds smallest nerf??

[sturdy spear]

I've never seen little timmy bullied more in my life

[tender frost]

reminding you that the lowest damage 99 parse on m voracius for bear is 87k and the lowest damage 99 parse for blood is 63.5k

[red knoll]

it is a GIANT nothingburger

[mystic dust]

It's strong nerf, but we are still very competitive imho

[forest flume]

I was about 2 hours off

[tender frost]

strong nerf

xd

[outer cave]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-hello-elmo-rise-elmo-hell-gif-3989603362345473118

[sturdy spear]

im sorry my guys

[fallen robin]

Nice to see them do just enough that the people who were full cope are satisfied. But also that the people who hate Apex are feeling good.

[red knoll]

Its not a strong nerf at all

lmfao

[quaint pond]

i can't wait for them to only do -25 instead of *0.75

[outer cave]

https://tenor.com/view/we-suck-again-oh-no-the-waterboy-rob-schneider-the-mud-dogs-gif-24522403

[vital sorrel]

Fuck you tettles

[mystic dust]

Around 12% of dps, and similair amount of hps

that's not a "small" nerf

[carmine palm]

hell yea we got nerfed again!

[red knoll]

wat

[tepid root]

Man calls himself a Druid

[outer cave]

back to f tier 🙁

[sleek lintel]

I mean Blizzard literally says they expect bear to still be more damage than other tanks lol

[red knoll]

the FOTMers are fucking seething

[open trail]

So looking at the top AA log, that would bring bear down to 110k overall, just like the brew

[daring nymph]

The real victory

[deft compass]

@still locust u called it dude rework inc

[carmine palm]

its a needed nerf but at least we can still do dmg, hold threat, heal and survive

[outer cave]

I can stop levelling my reroll bear??

[late basin]

I like the noApex callout

[tender frost]

made up numbers aside that still puts bear ~8-10% above Blood and Paladin in damage for Keys and raid

[daring nymph]

Is the apex change

[red knoll]

They will change the apex later

[tender frost]

so i mean

significant nerf

[late basin]

We recognize that the build in question avoids the Apex talent. With this tuning, we’re choosing to not break the Elune’s Chosen build or require the Apex talent. We have further plans to update the Guardian Apex Talent in a future patch to give us more flexibility with it and alleviate some of the current pain points for Druids.

[tender frost]

i take 1 million dollars from jeff bezos

[outer cave]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/121880935951106048/1501957017986797669/fatty-bongo-cat-speiq8r3zwmfyoyv-ezgif.com-gif-maker_1.gif

[tender frost]

thats a lot of money

[red knoll]

its not significant

at all

[fallen robin]

They're fine. True FotM already has Brew ready.

[tender frost]

doesnt make him not the richest by far though

[red knoll]

lol

[mystic dust]

I think with that nerf we are kind equal to brewmaster in M+

[daring nymph]

Ef nerf is good

Cause that shit over heals by a lot

[outer cave]

link updated sims pls?

[daring nymph]

Should have hit ursocs fury tbh

[tender frost]

equal to the best tank that is currently miles ahead of the other ones

thats all

no biggie

[fallen robin]

Lol they never rebuilt the sims to support the build in the first place iirc

[late basin]

so -12% damage, how much do we get back from the weapon bump to 298? LMAO

[outer cave]

damnit I was hoping I would see 5 bears do +23 wf keys

[mystic dust]

A this exact moment, before patch, I beleive we are stronger then brew

[fair coral]

yeah i think we are fine, since we can hold aggro and survive i dont care about some dps los

[red knoll]

Where are people getting 12% damage

[tender frost]

being stronger than brew or being equal to brew makes less of a difference than you think

[red knoll]

lmao

[fallen robin]

This sucks more for DotC than anything.

[red knoll]

Yeah

[lyric wraith]

yes my brew is ready, but I don't think its nerfed enough to be weaker than brew

[deep nacelle]

wait so, Wowhead releases a video of 5 druids timing a +20, and less than 2 hours later a last minute nerf its anuntiated for tomorrow's maintenance

[red knoll]

this should be an EC only nerf

[mystic dust]

No, it's okay for me, honestly

[normal temple]

is it 12% confirmed?

[torn depot]

thrash nerf is expected but that EF nuke is... odd

[tender frost]

as it should be

[azure ibex]

Guys bear is DEAD everyone delete your bears NOW

[tender frost]

TRUE

[outer cave]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-hello-elmo-rise-elmo-hell-gif-3989603362345473118

[primal wedge]

"fun detected" on schedule

[tender frost]

BEAR IS ONLY 10% BETTER THAN EVERY OTHER TANK THAT ISNT BREW IN ALL CONTENT

REROLL NOW

10% BETTER ISNT BETTER ENOUGH

[red knoll]

lol

[tender frost]

PANIC

[sleek lintel]

They're looking at I guess details where 50% of a bears damage is thrash, thrash bleed is pretty minor usually

[tender frost]

hi @azure ibex have u seen the latest incompetence from the blueposts yet

smilew

[fierce rose]

Hey - looking to reroll from monk, how is bear doing this season

[red knoll]

its literally just the fucking upfront damage

[stark apex]

[tender frost]

bear and brew are both 10% better than every other tank in all forms of content

slightly higher than 10% in m+

[weary seal]

why play circle of the wild and not circle of the heavens if thrash is magic dmg?

[quaint pond]

damage doesn't matter

see pin for details

[torn depot]

because they buff specific spells, not damage type

[fair coral]

we are so fine since we can survice

[mystic dust]

Feels like rollercoaster tbh

[tender frost]

pin

[drifting ridge]

Bear has been a roller coaster every single patch since DF Season 1

It's apparent they have no idea how to tune us and balance us in raid and m+

[mystic dust]

absolutely

[sleek lintel]

So 5 bears can only time a 19 now, womp womp lol

[mystic dust]

nah, they had 5 minutes left in +20

[quaint pond]

ok but it's not just bear they don't know how to tune any spec

[mystic dust]

still can do, would be 3 min left

[tender frost]

this

[quaint pond]

you just ride teh carry when you're fotm

[weary seal]

wait but thats kinda dumb the way its made no XD?

[quaint pond]

suffer or reroll when you're not

[tender frost]

if we put biases aside

[sweet pawn]

bruh, tips for first pull on AA? And first boss? Do we stand on the seedlings that are being spawned?

[tender frost]

and we all turn our heads 90 degrees

and look at blood

and think to ourselves and really scratch our noggins

[torn depot]

why are they nuking EF though, thats a really weird choice

[tender frost]

"when was the last time blood was at the top of m+"

[fair coral]

lets close the discord so they revert

[mystic dust]

feels like never

[rare nest]

so am i deleting this character now?

[tender frost]

sl s4

[quaint pond]

it is dumb but blizz values simple tooltips more than accurate tooltips

[tender frost]

and that was because of a bug that lasted 4 weeks

[drifting ridge]

I agree but bear is extremely egregious. What did we have in DF s1.. 5(?) Talent reworks in the first patch?

[sleek lintel]

Because a lot of the sustain is because EC thrash is arcane.

[tender frost]

so they decided not to remove said bug

and call it a feature

[rustic kestrel]

Ah great. So were stuck with the same slop except its just worse

[drifting ridge]

Bear has it exceptionally bad in most cases

[rustic kestrel]

Great fixes

[tender frost]

regardless its disingenuous to claim blizzard is only incompetent with 1 tank

its all tanks

[drifting ridge]

Yeppers

[sacred sinew]

Someone tell my best friend moggy if bear is dead now

[quaint pond]

i don't think ti's exceptionally bad

[tender frost]

but if we want to play the pity olympics no tank has had it worse than blood if we combine every instance of having it bad for each tank

[cosmic hatch]

they had 30 seconds lol

[drifting ridge]

No chance to actually fleshing out the rotation or making the playstyle enjoyable

[quasi vigil]

We are still best tanks especially together with mistweaver due to the buff, the gap between brew and us is simply closer

[vague sage]

Does 25% less damage mean 275% or 225%

[quaint pond]

many specs have bad shit

[sleek lintel]

I mean thrash bear is a bit like comfort food to SL mains

[drifting ridge]

Just a worse version of the slop we already have

[rustic kestrel]

And instead of working the apex they are just going to kill it

[steady needle]

i blame those 5 for this catastrophe

[rustic kestrel]

Swell

[mystic dust]

mb

[sleek lintel]

Give me back my Ravenous Frenzy Blizzard LOL

[fair coral]

https://tenor.com/view/scary-cat-scary-cat-meme-transition-gif-16332131886665053526

[tacit turtle]

Ah phew I think this is good. Once you read “x is broken” on wow reddit you know you’re in the crosshairs. Nerf to bring it down slightly is fair but it’s still boring gameplay

[cosmic hatch]

No idea why people going crazy about this 5 bear group lol. its 3 key levels below highest and they had to do ridiculous shit and needed 15 attempts to do it

[frail pumice]

is EC also ahead of DotC for raid builds?

[tender frost]

only 15 attempts and only 3 below max is kinda crazy

[mossy saffron]

Everything is fine, enjoy playing this season boys.

[drifting ridge]

Veeeery slightly if you play convoke yes

[cold walrus]

Ppl panic but it’s not a biiiig nerf even with these numbers. This meme build was too good. With it it’s still gonna be high tier lol

[tender frost]

the court of public opinion has ruled any tank that isnt bear or brew doesnt even get to be invited to a 20 that they arent themselves hosting

[frail pumice]

thank you

[fair coral]

i expected worse. I am reliefed with this nerf tbh

[tender frost]

ya

[cosmic hatch]

3 key levels is MASSIVE. like MASSIVE. its a 12 to a 19

[lucid anchor]

do u know the nerf % on bear

[fair coral]

we still in top 2 tanks

[quaint pond]

it's what, 10% if you don't play maul/raze?

[tender frost]

its massive but thats why i clarified my statement

[quaint pond]

you'll feel it but it's not terrible

[fair coral]

Squish and Andy say around 12% on damage

[azure scarab]

Damn I expected alot worse, this still playable 👍

[violet holly]

guardian channel will be closing tomorrow at noon

[cosmic hatch]

the damage nerf is irrelevant, it was all pad anyway, u should worry more about the healing part

[daring nymph]

It’s still a weird nerf

[lament blade]

1st bonus roll on nxp and got a ring

pog

[quaint pond]

they're not doing 50% of their damage as direct thrash

[tender frost]

@high path enjoy your chat tomorrow

[daring nymph]

Cause 90% of Ef healing is over healing

[tender frost]

https://tenor.com/view/xddd-gif-11484761101775539239

[drifting ridge]

Reopened when we buff weaving and delete red moon yes yes?

[tender frost]

have fun frenchman

[quaint pond]

direct thrash is closer to 40%

[daring nymph]

Should have nerfed uf

[violet holly]

tbd for reopen

[mossy saffron]

[daring nymph]

Anywho

Real victory is apex change next patch I suppose

[torn depot]

its still weird because that talent is already weaker than UF and overheals a lot anyway

[daring nymph]

Watch it just be “apex effects thrash”

[covert stone]

Monk is back

good news

That was fast

[mossy saffron]

no

[torn depot]

well at least we're getting an apex change

[daring nymph]

It’s funny cause watch all the fotmers who said “nerfs killed brew! I feeeeel it” flock back to it

[quiet robin]

Name a more iconic duo

[daring nymph]

If they make it rng

I stg

[forest fiber]

bear is dead? bm release? :V

[hoary wharf]

I hope so

[vague sage]

Does -25% mean 275% or 225%

[unreal summit]

at some point

[fair coral]

what change

[cursive folio]

this guy just got ur spec nerfed

what do u do

[quaint pond]

it's supposed to mean *0.75

[fair coral]

https://tenor.com/view/liar-blizzard-activision-blizzard-activision-bobby-kotick-gif-10247464055084334428

[quaint pond]

but you can't always trust they'll nerf corrctly

[torn depot]

idk they just said they're going to change it eventually so who knows

[lone whale]

Is there an argument to drop Elune's Favored completely now for another talent point? Due to the compounding effects of Thrash damage nerf reducing its value anyways + Nature's Resilience/SotF maybe being more attractive.

[copper hornet]

Wow im a prophet

Only one to see this coming 100p

[lucid anchor]

that's not much

so it will stay meta?

[nocturne hull]

He’s such a fkin wet wipe bro

[cold walrus]

No, delete your guardian char now

[quaint pond]

damn tettles

[unreal summit]

it's not even meta. people still playing Brew/Resto for the most part.

[wintry ravine]

blizzard watch 5 guardian video

probably

[warm tundra]

Gg go next

[topaz wave]

what's our absolute biggest ST burst for something like beloren egg? Still the old claw/red moon build

[mossy saffron]

Stop spreading misinformation smh

[drifting ridge]

Truly a genius

How do you do it Crazy?

[mossy saffron]

[sharp grail]

its over

[copper hornet]

I was just born with a genetic advantage wcyd

[mossy saffron]

xD

[cold walrus]

Ppl act as if the guardian was sent to the shadow realm

[drifting ridge]

Thanks mum and dad

[warm tundra]

Resto back on top

Get fucked bears

[cold walrus]

Cope

[covert stone]

You really thought you Bears could beat monks

hahaha

[nocturne hull]

Ew resto Druid

[mossy saffron]

Current monk is nothing compared to bear.

[daring berry]

Guardian should still be a top tier tank

[cold walrus]

1 bear vs 100 monks

[covert stone]

Not tomorrow

[mossy saffron]

Still tomorrow.

[covert stone]

https://tenor.com/view/ha-ha-ha-cat-gif-15863832227655471819

[quartz kernel]

Monks acting weird as hell

[drifting vigil]

五头威猛的中国熊联手，夷平了那座饱受风吹雨打的山峰。一场暴风雪夺去了熊的生命。

[cold walrus]

Yes indeed

[celest meadow]

So this discord channel getting shut down tomorrow until buffs?

[amber ocean]

My math says this works out to be a ~5% nerf in ST? Not terrible tbh

[cold walrus]

Go monk to your pandarenian monk discord

[covert stone]

Beers will always win against bears.

https://tenor.com/view/stone-cold-steve-austin-beer-bash-drink-beer-drinking-beer-wwe-gif-16765941

[cold walrus]

+100

[mossy saffron]

And bears will always slam the beers

[fair coral]

https://giphy.com/gifs/fight-WKdWA04KRn58A

[random spruce]

andybrew said around 12%

[mossy saffron]

Yeah about right

[cold walrus]

Imagine guardian bear that drinks the beer

[amber ocean]

Single target, raid? 12%?

How does that math work

[mossy saffron]

And a nerf to overhealing, biiiig

I think he means overall

12% sounds about right in aoe etc

[cold walrus]

Old damage compared to the new damage. Thanks for my Ted talk

[burnt sandal]

we good boys

WE GOOD BOYS

[ornate abyss]

https://tenor.com/view/putin-bear-vladimir-putin-crossing-river-gif-13579934

[amber ocean]

My thrash direct damage did 9k dps on Vorasius. 75% of that is 6.75k. So I lose like 2.25k dps

That’s like 5% at most

How is it 12?

[cedar bay]

No one gives a fuck about single target or raid balance bro.

[mossy saffron]

We talking keys

[cedar bay]

Girls dont give a fuck about raid prog they only care about io.

[fair coral]

Andy talked about overall only

[cold walrus]

Bro plays meme build on the raid

[mossy saffron]

[still kestrel]

nerfin again 😭

[amber ocean]

Yeah so you’re all yapping about M+ damage. Right, okay

[amber ocean]

Who the heck is Andy?

[civic cloak]

100% nerf if you go back to monk

[fair coral]

who cares about raid bro

[sturdy spear]

hes right u know

[uneven flame]

does this even out for DOTC @grand plinth ?

[grand plinth]

Likely

[amber ocean]

@red knoll can I get some sane people in here by any chance?

[uneven flame]

nice

DOTC eating good

[drifting ridge]

Afraid not

[grand plinth]

For DOTC razeless ravage was already doing as much as my thrash

[topaz wave]

^

[indigo forge]

[grand plinth]

The truth is thrash is just really good in EC

[random spruce]

and i just started to fucking gear my druid 😄

[grand plinth]

So any tuning tied to thrash is gonna move that needle

[red knoll]

Bro the fotmers are on fire rn

[random spruce]

cbaaaaa

[drifting ridge]

Good bear form

[grand plinth]

I think likely my EC raze build will still feel best.

[cold walrus]

https://tenor.com/view/mujikcboro-seriymujik-gif-24361533

[random spruce]

only 1 that matters 😄

[grand plinth]

But I think it did before anyways so

[warm tundra]

People switching classes because of a build that will clearly get nerfed never fails to make me laugh

Same thing happened in resto 2 weeks ago

[amber ocean]

Seriously wtf did I walk into

[random spruce]

brother its a fucking joke 😄

LMAO

[burnt sandal]

Facts

[cold walrus]

Being a fotmer is a biggest honor

[warm tundra]

Fotw*

[cold walrus]

Indeed

[amber ocean]

Is this what it’s like when NA is active instead of EU? Jesus, get me out

[torn depot]

there's no jesus in this

[burnt sandal]

so we def drop sundering

maybe we can drop waking nightmare as well?

[limber current]

Bye

[random spruce]

i mean if i had a premade group at all time i would notfotm and just play my class.. but when you are duo or solo its very painful to not fotm

[quaint pond]

waking nightmare has nothing to do with thrash

[uneven flame]

ye!

[fair coral]

same

[torn depot]

this nerf came faster than i expected ngl

[cold walrus]

lol why so low ilvl

[red knoll]

:3

I love it

Its not even a big nerf

and theyre leaving

[cedar bay]

What is bears niche now? What does it do well?

[hearty wigeon]

Do I need to rejoin the BrM discord

[mossy saffron]

Very smol nerf

[fair coral]

fresh char, just wanted to try some high keys

[vague sage]

You played 48 hours of bear this week?

[quartz kernel]

MOTW

[forest flume]

rookie numbers

[cedar bay]

Im sure you guys love being reduced to a raid buff kekw

[cold walrus]

I see, enjoy +10 keys then

[median vapor]

and Thrash has been nerfed by 25%.. GG boys

[torn depot]

people will complain about 1 button rotation being a thing and suddenly want 2 button rotation bear

[red knoll]

who wants 2 button

[lime flame]

i think the bigger problem is that blizz accidentally made one of the tanks fun, but now they're putting a stop to it and people are annoyed

[red knoll]

fun?!

Are you insane?

[limber current]

Yup

[cold walrus]

Lmao

[red knoll]

Its snooze inducing

[civic cloak]

Can't be having fun on a tank after MoP. That's illegal

[warm tundra]

Guys did you know thrash got nerfed?

[amber ocean]

12% in M+, not even 5% in raid… what on earth

[outer cave]

2 button rotation FUN? you must be more brian dead then me

[cold walrus]

I’m pushing keys and watching things on the other screen and u say it’s fun lmao

[red knoll]

Anyone who puts fun in the description

[warm tundra]

Who's brian

[red knoll]

for this build

[lime flame]

if pushing different buttons in just the right order is fun to you, maybe try DDR. tank is about lots of different things, not thinking too hard about buttons is nice

[red knoll]

is fucking stupid

[amber ocean]

The fun part about it was that you could stay alive but seriously it was completely mindless lmao

[fair coral]

20's but still after nerfs bear will blast

[red knoll]

Its engaging

[warm tundra]

Big pulls big numbers big fun

[vague sage]

Ok, but they didnt buff anything. So people are just going to be doing the same thing, but worse??

[red knoll]

Its not fun to press 1 button over and over again

[outer cave]

I was literally falling asleep levelling as EC. too brain dead

[cold walrus]

I’m kiddin m8 ^^

[neat orchid]

I wonder what the threat implications will be with the thrash nerf

[quaint pond]

if you play the same way you'll lose ~10% in keys ya

[outer cave]

im glad blizz killed it

[quaint pond]

if you play dotc or try raze builds you'll lose less

[half cave]

We're still incredibly strong. Very minor change

[half cave]

No way. Like 4% maybe

[graceful surge]

Isn't that 50% healing reduction

[half cave]

It's direct damage only

[quaint pond]

ya you can get up to 40% direct damage

[outer cave]

it literally says -25% thrash!

[fair coral]

it was all overhealing anyways

[lime flame]

then press 5, thrash moonfire ironfur lunar beam incarn, bonus buttons frenzied regen barkskin surv instincts

[torn depot]

it will still be 2.25x stronger than before, so still very strong. and dot is unchanged

[sick lynx]

Any idea how much of a nerf to sustain this is actually gonna be?

[random spruce]

idk i still think brew got a chance to be better again

[kind agate]

Can someone talk me off a ledge and tell me that my 3rd reroll isnt now busted

[snow narwhal]

Is the healing nerf to elunes consequential to bear survivability in high keys? Asking for a friend who’s dooming

[half cave]

From a talent that is our like 5th in our healing and 90 overheal

[rustic kestrel]

Stop rerolling and just play

[fair coral]

but still we are miles ahead of other tanks and in top 2

[red knoll]

cds arent buttons

[graceful surge]

Idk when I'm dying the healing seems important

[cold walrus]

Lmao

[limber current]

Gg

[red knoll]

lmfao

[cold walrus]

Find god

[half cave]

Anyone who is dooming over these nerfs, please rr monk and stop fotming lmao

[lime flame]

then describe brm or protwarr to me

[half cave]

This was the most mild inconsequential nerf I've ever seen

[random spruce]

i mean we will see how the tunings are

[vapid forum]

I play a BDK but I enjoy keeping up with the bear lore

[neat orchid]

It is a minor nerf tbh

[brisk bluff]

what's the napkin math on how bif the m+ nerf is? Any pin or command for it yet?

[red knoll]

brewmaster has 4 rotational buttons not including brews

lmao

[fair coral]

its all G bro, bear was insane, just some dps loss w.ee we guccci

[neat orchid]

Still lunar and bark and you will be fine

[odd mica]

the only reaosn this annoys me as a forever guardian main, is it indirectly also nerfs ST again and our ST is like not great anymore in raid

[daring berry]

Bear discord when thrash direct damage gets buffed 200% and bleed 100% and then direct damage gets trimmed back 25%

[quaint pond]

just open your log, expand thrash to get the direct damage, and take off 25% of that

[fair coral]

https://tenor.com/view/memes-gif-9980668056796018353

[rustic kestrel]

The funny part is no one was taking ef before nopex slop, and when they fix nopex slop itl absolutely never be taken now

[quaint pond]

you don't really need a pin

[cold walrus]

Close da discord, cause I’m a beer and gonna berserk and pee myself

[cloud hinge]

are there any addons for mage tower? So im not responding to a .5 second cast bar?

[rustic kestrel]

I need someone to tell me how to breath, let alone do math on my thrash damage

[amber ocean]

Bruh. Our ST is still miles above the other tanks

[red knoll]

Bulok

[outer cave]

bear was doing like 25% more than brew so now it will do about the same. Actually I think this will nerf it but still keep it up at about equal to brew. IMO good nerf

[crimson sandal]

how will these nerfs effect lebrons legacy or the trout population?

[amber ocean]

And this is like a ~5% nerf

At best

[violet holly]

no

[cold walrus]

I don’t even know what my set pieces are let alone thrash dmg math

[brisk bluff]

yea but i mean, healing and shit too, idk man, maybe there are weird interactions. Im here for the nerd shit

[red knoll]

Youtuber said its 12%

[vapid forum]

I want bdk to get a bear blast like you guys did.

[rotund maple]

🤡

[odd mica]

https://tenor.com/view/spongebob-3bob-extra-eye-snail-eating-gif-13711041841154725027

[quaint pond]

there's not really any interactions

[lime flame]

oof, i'm shook to my core

[dawn summit]

hi all i am a new bear, how do i parry?

[vapid forum]

You don't.

[quaint pond]

assuming blizz does it correct (which they don't always do) you just reduct the direct thrash by 25%

[rustic kestrel]

By rerolling vdh

[cold walrus]

You gotta wear a sword

[outer cave]

bear was doing like 25% more than brew so now it will do about the same. Actually I think this will nerf it but still keep it up at about equal to brew. IMO good nerf.

[amber ocean]

Idk about you but I’m doing 80k on Vorasius. Now I’ll do… 77k. Big whoop.

[daring berry]

Exercise your right to bear arms

[proven glade]

this guy gets it

[dawn summit]

what is vdh

[odd mica]

bro i was doing 80k 3 weeks ago and we still doing 80k LOLOL

[torn depot]

this nerf is a nothingburger, its just for the sake of changing community perception

[cold walrus]

Nah it’s gg, we gotta close the discord and reroll back to monk

[candid knoll]

25% of this thrash damage ?

[rotund maple]

I think the amount of angry dads that are too elderly to handle class complexity will take out their frustration by going fishing so the bear nerfs will have a negative effect on the trout population.

[quaint pond]

no you need to expand thrash

[outer cave]

https://tenor.com/view/elmo-hello-elmo-rise-elmo-hell-gif-3989603362345473118

[quaint pond]

only the direct damage is nerfed, not all thrash

[amber ocean]

Yeah and? It’s barely a nerf. Brews are doing like 65k

[crimson sandal]

rip trouts

[red knoll]

its 25% to just the upfront portion....

[candid knoll]

Bottom one or top

[sturdy spear]

math is hard for people

[violet holly]

this part

[amber ocean]

Top

[odd mica]

it just feels like shit doing same dmg as 3 weeks ago with 20 more i lvl

[unreal summit]

the hit portion is the larger one by far

but yeah

[indigo forge]

So the majority of thrash dmg

[red knoll]

okay

[cold walrus]

Ppl cant even read and they want to do math it’s so funny

[candid knoll]

Thanks

[fathom lotus]

h

[quaint pond]

if you're really pushing direct thrash is like what, 40% in AA keys?

[red knoll]

but its still not 25% of all thrash damage

[unborn dock]

Good nerf, turtle build still viable in m+ for the no brain enjoyers but raze will actually do more damage then thrash now. Apex is back 🤗

[amber ocean]

Sure, that’s completely valid. I agree with that. But also we’re like… so far above the other tanks still it’s stupid

[quaint pond]

so you could potentially lose 10% ish if you play the same way

[proven glade]

my napkin math has it around 10-12% m+ nerf overall

[torn depot]

we have been nerfed so many times and somehow still manage to remain ahead of other tanks

[candid knoll]

All in all about 10% nerf yea

[red knoll]

Im just excited to see the apex changes

[rotund maple]

You're telling me 80% of bear's Thrash damage was from the direct damage part yeah y'all deserve to be nerfed 💀

[red knoll]

they do

[daring berry]

Bearly a nerf at all

[unreal summit]

I will beleive them when I see them.

[violet holly]

47% in AA for me

[lone whale]

that's a grizzly pun

[quaint pond]

you have 47% direct thrash?

[hoary wharf]

Spec still busted guys, no need to worry

[violet holly]

oh no, sorry 35% direct

[quaint pond]

ya

[violet holly]

man, image didnt went through

[quaint pond]

it's gonna be 10% or less

[torpid yoke]

This was me when I opened reddit and first post is the perfect announcement

[violet holly]

bleed part as guardian was always very low

[balmy adder]

fotm rerollers cant decide

[amber ocean]

Yeah seriously. They really backed themselves into a corner with the apex talent

They need to make it cool

[cedar bay]

And these fucking redditors cry about people better than they could ever imagine doing what is considered low keys to them doing higher keys than they can do.

[weary rivet]

so isnt this a nerf to Ursoc's Fury aswell (our top heal?) i havent seen anyone talking about this rn?

[violet holly]

guys if you just rerolled you can go back to whatever else

[amber ocean]

Barely

[green bane]

fotm rerollers calling other people fotm rerollers is peak comedy

[quaint pond]

ya it's a nerf assuming you weren't capping out the shield

[torpid yoke]

[indigo forge]

Yes

[quaint pond]

but maybe you'l just have to play dotc or use raze idk

[indigo forge]

No

[sour osprey]

fotm rerollers deserve to have their specs nerfed tbh

[violet holly]

imagine that

[weary rivet]

%10 dps loss is nothing i wonder how this affects survivability tbh

[amber ocean]

Barely

We won’t be quite as invincible

But still very much invincible

[half cave]

It's closer to 8% nerf.

[violet holly]

the 5 bear team will have to do better pulls if they want to time a +20 now

[torn depot]

thrash is still doing over double damage as before, therefore generating over double ursoc shields

[amber ocean]

Probably irrelevant up to like… +16s if I had to guess

[hoary wharf]

Why are you crying when the nerf is nothing mate? Be glad blizzard is slow, you probably you will enjoy the spec 2 more weeks until they cut a little more like they did to mobk

[plush bluff]

I’ve been playing bear for a whole 2 days how dare people say I’m a fotm re roller

[amber ocean]

You’re talking M+?

[quaint pond]

Ya i doubt many ppl are hitting 40% like top aa keys

[versed chasm]

so brew got 2-3 slaps on the wrist and they just continued vibing , bear got a small - mid nerf and the world is ending xD wtf is going on

[quaint pond]

Most ppl seem 35% ish

[violet holly]

fotm andys

[half cave]

Ya. Much lower in raid.

[versed chasm]

if bear raised the ceiling for highest timed keys and now blizzard brought it back down guess what this means for anything except 23 keys

[vapid heart]

It's a slap, in the end. Still top tank by a truckload.

[versed chasm]

NOTHING

[amber ocean]

Yeah I found it to be like ~5% on the high end in raid

At best

[warm sun]

i dont get it why brew can go weeks being op

and guardian cant last a week

[violet holly]

lets be optimistic its only 5% then

done

[torn depot]

we'll be fine

[half cave]

My guess is lower than that especially if you play DOTC in raid

[versed chasm]

bear rework enables people to do 23s
bear nerf makes people still do 22s

meanwhile everywhere the world is ending , literally nothing changed xD

[nocturne hull]

Because every dickhead content creator and his dog made stupid videos about how insanely broken a 2 button class was

[amber ocean]

Yeah I mean using my own EC damage it’s 2.9% lol. It’s nothing at all

[violet holly]

also bc it was

[nocturne hull]

Of course it was lol

[red knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-yes-nod-agree-gif-21960775

fotmers eating eachother alive

[cold plaza]

how much was the nerf ? % wise

[candid knoll]

No 23s time on a brewmaster

[nocturne hull]

But like do cunts not know how to sandbag anymore sheesh I remember when mages all band together and sandbagged the shit out of fire mage lol

[violet holly]

fun to watch ngl

[candid knoll]

10

[red knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-fire-lionfield-bogi-gif-20100853

[amber ocean]

Yeah the problem with bear was it did stupid damage, with stupid survivability, while ALSO not taking apex talents and ignoring 4-set

[half cave]

Prolly about 2% dotc apex raid 3% ec apex raid, 8% nopex m+ is my guess

[random spruce]

cuz this current guaridna is much stronger than brew was before getting nerfs

[fiery pecan]

I mean do you expect them to just be quiet about something that they can use for content

[upbeat fjord]

fotm rerolling isnt fun when its my class thats good

[fathom lotus]

dont think brew was broken dmg wise either

[nocturne hull]

Of course not, they are shitters who aren’t very good at being entertaining so need all the clout they can get lol

[fiery pecan]

Just fotm reroll off the class

[cold plaza]

Guys, everyone will still do the 12 weakly without dying, no one here plays a 22 or 23

[amber ocean]

Yeah sounds about right. DOTC still ever so slightly behind EC for raid then

[junior plume]

By the end of the season we will be tanking in cat form or balance

[topaz wave]

I mean, bear is still gonna be really good for keys, but I think it'll be pretty meh for single target right?

[half cave]

I think EC Apex will still be the move for raid unfortunately. I find DOTC more fun to play. We can still play DOTC on beloren lol.

[fiery pecan]

I mean it's definitely not like Blizzard doesn't have their own internal data they can see

[amber ocean]

Yeah I think so too. I love my ravages though. Hopefully my guild kills alleria ASAP so I can bring back DOTC

[nocturne hull]

Blizz are lazy af brother you know this lol

[random spruce]

yes Guardian will still be the best tank cuz you still want the 3% versa + it still does the best dmg

[river ginkgo]

It's gonna be

[half cave]

Personally I think I'm going to do reinvigoration, NR, and Ursols warding now. Elunes favor much less appealing.

[river ginkgo]

Interesting to see how they redesign the Apex

[amber ocean]

I wasn’t even taking EF before - even more so now. I was taking NR/Ursol’s/Reinvig. they just felt better

[fiery pecan]

If the damage is competitive with brew, rdruid can bring motw

[upbeat fjord]

new apex node will be 2 waking nightmares that also thrash

[earnest python]

well true, but mistweaver is the hot thing

and mistweaver just does way more dmg

[random spruce]

Rdruid is ass

[half cave]

Resto druid is really strong right now and brewmaster has a lot more utility for mythic Plus. We have strong numbers but guardian druids are horrible for dungeons as a class design. The FOTM re-roller is probably don't know that haha

[weary rivet]

what

[random spruce]

resto druid isnt really strong anymore???

[river ginkgo]

They should "update" the Apex to make Convoke interesting

[half cave]

Feels good to me

[weary rivet]

first time im hearing someone glazing brew utility over guardian

brew utility is nonexistent if u arent playing physical comp

motw + cr is leagues above anything brew brings

please dont type ring of peace

[fiery pecan]

Technically tiger's lust

[indigo forge]

Leg sweep

[fiery pecan]

I guess

[inland coral]

yeah i'm curious what they end up doing with apex

[half cave]

I wish they would make it so that if you took convoke it replaced berserk and buffed convoke to compensate. I actually really like convoke but I just despise non-incarn berserk

[earnest python]

well u say that, but u have 2-3 classes that stun drs, your legsweep if u dont play phys comp

[fiery pecan]

Id say rop but mw brings it and lets you do the same thing on seat first boss as bear

[high ermine]

probably nothing til season2 id assume if anything

[weary rivet]

incap roar is better than leg sweep because %99 of the time leg sweep is used as a ministop not a full stun anyway

[fiery pecan]

What's the unholy/aug stun?

[weary rivet]

ring of peace and tigers lust is obviously dungeon pool dependant

but id say roar is way better for getting 5 seconds off timer cuz it reduces travel time

[hollow ferry]

“high-damage relative to other tanks”

[inland coral]

no yeah i agree - they probably won't actually do anything until then.. just curious where their thinking is at with it

[versed chasm]

utility of classes like brewmaster is always glorified on seasons its meta , same as vdh sigils

a given example is warrior stops and stuns when the calss is meta while every other season everyone heats warrior utility and rolls laughing on the floor

[uneven flame]

finally 😭

[steady needle]

i blame the meta slaves that were rerolling to bear for this nerf, specially those 5 that maked a +20 full bear

[earnest python]

breath stuns (aug) , devourer has stun. and since i said 2-3 its casue alot of people play warlock 2, and they have stun 2

[brazen tinsel]

And how does that make incap better

[fiery pecan]

Technically a future patch could mean .0.7

[polar terrace]

vdh sigils were bonkers though

[high ermine]

thats true

[upbeat fjord]

i wont lie it is funny as fuck that 5 bears timed a +20

legion remix type shit

[versed chasm]

yeah but they are remembered only when class is meta

[fiery pecan]

Then they made sure vdh sigils died in tww and made double sure it was dead in midnight

[weary rivet]

i had ppl legit refusing to play with brewmaster s3 tww because it didnt bring aoe kick + 20 sec shockwave

now suddenly brew has the best utility

[versed chasm]

vdh had sigil of silence for infinite years , peopel praised it only on s2 xD the utility is there always but the class being better than others bring it forward

[weary rivet]

idk people

[inland coral]

technically yeah - but that's assuming they actually know what they're going to do with it.. I'd rather them take some time and come up with something that works / is fun then try and rush out some bullshit apex

[random spruce]

VDH also being probably the hardest tank to play aswell

[versed chasm]

it doesnt its copium

[fiery pecan]

You can say brew has the best utility for this season

[versed chasm]

what did i even witness rn

[fiery pecan]

But let's be real the tank that has the best group utility isnt bear or brew by far

It's ppal

Can't beat ppal utility wise

[merry pier]

rip guardian was good to know you

[steady needle]

would be the pve scenario a better place without top 1% players making videos an tierlists ?

[random spruce]

you just withnessed a fact

[covert stone]

My eyes are burning when i read this.

[polar terrace]

that's why ppal is usually king of carrying lowkeys

[covert stone]

Its legit 2 buttons

[polar terrace]

they seem real squishy this season though

[weary rivet]

lower cd for instance

[steady needle]

what

[random spruce]

???????????????????

[covert stone]

you have half the bind of any other tanks as vdh

nothing hard

[random spruce]

OKEY DUDE

[covert stone]

Yep

[fiery pecan]

3 if you count spb, 4 if you count FD, 5 if you count brand

[merry pier]

1 button rotation for 15-17 at least.

[covert stone]

Thats not button

[primal wedge]

the irony

[cedar mauve]

im new here but my druid is lvl 90 261 ilvl can anyone help me with the one button macro please

[versed chasm]

thats exactly the meme

When ppal is meta , omg ppal has so many kicks and sac and x y z

when pwar is meta , omg pwar has stops and stuns }

when vdh is meta , omg sigils and cage

when x is meta , omg sth that exists every season is broken

every class that is overplayed due to tuning starts having praise on utility cause people try to maximise the potential of an laready broken spec

[fiery pecan]

So what you just never press soul cleave?

[cedar mauve]

idk how to set it up

[random spruce]

@covert stone i mean i cant blame you if you have that opinion but fk me are you doing 10-12s as your highest keys?

[fiery pecan]

Well ya best utility usually means whatever is good for the season

[covert stone]

I am at the 20s

[random spruce]

than i am very suprised you are saying that

[covert stone]

I played all tanks

[random spruce]

to a point where i would like to use slurs 😄

[covert stone]

VDH has less binds

[random spruce]

less binds doesnt mean easier :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

wtf

AM I READING

[covert stone]

it is easier than any tanks

[random spruce]

that is just so stupid

to say

[versed chasm]

if you believe vdh is the hardest tank to play
then you have not played ppal , bdk or even brew before this patch on high keys
change my mind

[daring nymph]

It’s not

What

[cedar mauve]

anyone able to help me with it?

[daring nymph]

Nah

Nvm I’m working my

I’m not taking bait

That being said

Vdh is a lot easier in midnight

But it’s still more buttons than bear rn

[steady needle]

loving the bait at #guardian discord

[versed chasm]

how is vdh easier in midnight when in tww it was fracture fracture soulcleave soulcleave repeat but press sigil and imo aura

WHAT

[random spruce]

ye sure in Midnight cuz they totaly fked the class but in Tww, DF that class was one of the hardest if not hardest

[versed chasm]

how do u get easier than that

brother vdh season 2 of tww was the easiest thing i have ever played

[weary rivet]

what

how is this a real opinion

vengeance has never been the hardest tank to play at any point

[fiery pecan]

Well, vdh is kind of similar now. You still have the fracture spam into cleave play, just remove sigil and add in bomb and apex

[indigo forge]

Bunch of gamers in here

[weary rivet]

i played tww vengeance s2 to title and it wasnt hard at all

[versed chasm]

then how do u get easier now or how is that the hardest tank to play xD

[weary rivet]

just dont die while grouping and u never die

[unborn dock]

For the one button rotation you need to go to your options, gameplay enhancements and activate it first. But I might be wrong I don't use it

[random spruce]

in keys it has

[weary rivet]

HOW AND WHEN LMAO

[slate ore]

shadowlands

[weary rivet]

maybe an argument for double sigil era? cuz u were doing everything solo?

[cedar mauve]

oo ok i thought it was just a macro that we create

[weary rivet]

idk

[covert stone]

exactly\

[versed chasm]

oh come on dont tell me u actually believe dh was hard to play

[uneven flame]

now i just need to get rid of my puzzlebox and im good to go

[covert stone]

its even easier now

[weary rivet]

shadowlands s1 was vengeance meta and it wasnt tanking

it was taking aggro and leaping away

[random spruce]

ye exactly

[true depot]

Throwback to kite meta

[versed chasm]

thats df and u were trying to cc a whole dungeon alone

[random spruce]

the whole group was depending that the tank didnt fuck his sigils up cuz you were carrying everything

[random spruce]

fkn dumbass i literally said tww and df

😄

[slate ore]

I played brew in SLands I was near catatonic half the time

[burnt shore]

I will admit, I'm a bit disappointed by the not-unexpected nerf. I don't play the no-apex build but I would have liked if they took added that damage they're nerfing into maul/raze.

[versed chasm]

exactly that means you are at least 50% wrong

xDDD

[bright wyvern]

The whole group being dependent on your CC does not equal the tank being hard to play tho

Dropping a sigil isn't hard

[unborn dock]

I mean you can macro stuff manually, but blizzard has a feature for players that enables a single bind to make a cast sequence of a basic rotation. Idk how it holds up. Idk if it was that you were searching

[random spruce]

no.. it means you are yapping before thinking

[vernal fog]

they taking away my heals and shields....make barskin last 20 seconds...

[weary rivet]

pressing 6 sigils in order will never approach the dangers of playing prot pala/ bdk or the rotational complexity of old brew mate

[versed chasm]

just thinking of trying to time a death strike is harder than dh kit in its entirety

[versed chasm]

THANK YOU

[burnt epoch]

guys is bear dead? am i rerolling floor pov?

[vague sage]

Yeah bro. Wait for next youtuber slop tierlist to decide what to play

[vernal fog]

yes bear is dead...time to play protpally

[primal wedge]

just wait for awoo to make a different broken build lol

[random spruce]

i am talking about when the classes were being meta.. Sure i heard alot of stories about prot pala.. brew mostly being hard cuz of being overbloated with spells that made no sense

[forest flume]

I don't think this changes anything but idk

[weary rivet]

if you think vengeance is hard i would really want to see you play a grim batol +18 on prot paladin

[glass coyote]

What are people thinking the verdict is on these nerfs? I see ~10% overall (this lines up when I look at one of my logs from last night). The healing is the bigger question to me. Are you going to notice this? Elune was 17% of healing, but also, 65% of Elune was overhealing...

[versed chasm]

we dont talk about grim batol and paladin

leave it in the past

dont think about it comrade

[slate ore]

My opinion is probs moot anyway. I only tank weekly keys now and main aug

[burnt epoch]

it will affect ursocs a bit

[weary rivet]

that was the most fun i had playing the game

[random spruce]

@weary rivet i am talking when all these classes have been as strongest/meta

vdh is up there to be one of the harder tanks

[rustic kestrel]

Im talking about post fixes in that comment

[random spruce]

especially that sigil season

[cedar mauve]

tbh idk just heard people say to use the 1 button rotation so trying to figure it out i do have the ability to for single button assistant if thats what it is then ill add it to my action bar

[burnt shore]

Raid builds will take a small damage hit.

[rustic kestrel]

Like when they decide to rework our apex into some sad pathetic rng proc instead of the versatile cool as fuck thing it is now

[weary rivet]

i will indulge you and say that different people find different things more difficult

[versed chasm]

i will counter with s1 df over s1 tww , sentinel introduction on a season with very high mastery made my heart happy back then

[random spruce]

Even kira and naowh said that VDH is one of the harder tanks to play..

[versed chasm]

one of the harder doesnt mean the hardest

[forest flume]

Oh yeah, there were two interesting facts in their post. 1) They expect bear to be the best damage across tanks and 2) they know the apex is problematic

[versed chasm]

if vdh is in the middle of bear pwar vs ppal and bdk

then its not a comparison

[slate ore]

I haven't touched VDH this expansion, but it was kinda spicy in DFlight and TWW. But I'm also not the kind of person who enjoys 'roll your cds or die' tanks

[cloud hinge]

Finally my god

[halcyon jackal]

what makes ppal hard ?

[forest flume]

see, easy! :p

Grats!

[versed chasm]

that statement is like saying bdk is top 6 tanks

[slate ore]

grats!

[narrow parrot]

Yes but that’s also cos we were so tanky from thrash shielding that it seldom needed to dip into EF. But when that tap was needed , it contributed . However with thrash nerf and EF , we will feel this one I reckon

[cloud hinge]

I hard disagree that was miserable but ty

[slate ore]

gonna work on the book?

[random spruce]

are you by any chance a prot pala main?

[rustic kestrel]

Ef is all overhealing, the ef nerf means zero

[cloud hinge]

Book?

[weary rivet]

question of should i word of glory now or can i survive until my next global

[slate ore]

complete all the mage tower scenarios you get a flying book mount

[grand plinth]

People often confuse hard with shitty

[slate ore]

as in all the different scenarios, not every class

[fiery pecan]

I mean you're not wrong bdk is in the top 6 tanks

[cloud hinge]

100% absolutely not

[slate ore]

lmao

[hushed oriole]

Do we finally press mangle tmrw or nah

[bright wyvern]

This is giga-true btw

[uneven flame]

you press mangle today

[cloud hinge]

Now to get back to the real game..... are we playing no apex build now?

[rustic kestrel]

This changes nothing about the rotation

[uneven flame]

DOTC gigachad

[cloud hinge]

Sure thats been asked a million times

[uneven flame]

join brybear movement

[topaz arch]

God dammit, we had a last minute nerf, I can't take this rollercoaster of changes anymore

[slate ore]

Some are rougher than others, but different strokes different folks. I did every class when it came back in DFlight. Grats on getting the felbear.

[versed chasm]

you dont have a fixed rotation priority since you have to juggle stacks of judg and hammer + you need to play with your cds on cycle and know when to wog , most paladins wog early when hp drops a bit while in reality the best ppal playstyle is playing like a fake bdk

you take increments of dmg in a stable way and when you are about to take more dmg or a tank buster u need to go back to full

thats for most pull im not talking about the 25 mob pulls htat you have to heal urself 24/7

[red knoll]

yeah bear is dead

gg

its so over

[torn depot]

[uneven flame]

[fiery pecan]

dw they'll rework the apex into something that lets you get a chance to get free incarn procs whenever you press if or spend rage

[red knoll]

Remember when i told everyone they would make emergency nerfs

to bear

[forest flume]

new apex: shadowlands 2 and 4 sets

[grand plinth]

Its 100 some proc bullshit

[fiery pecan]

They'll call it untethered fury

[halcyon jackal]

the changes mean we lost around 13% dmg and and a quarter of self-healing

[red knoll]

Itll be proc bs like every other tank

[weary rivet]

can we get incarn on barkskin back

[red knoll]

Thats not what it means

[bright wyvern]

A quarter?

[red knoll]

lmao

[astral ginkgo]

next weeks post:
after the wildfire procs free razes in addition to the heal, rank 4 it provides overheal shielding.
rank 4 also allows us to fish in bear form.

[red knoll]

bro doesnt know math

[random spruce]

@versed chasm did you casually jsut tank 17s and jump over to 19-20s as ret with some guildies 😄

[halcyon jackal]

thrash nerf also affects nightmare, and sunder

[unborn dock]

If you are struggling with keybinds and you just want to relax you can use the 1 button rotation from blizzard and probably time 10s. But it's far off the optimal gameplay loop I think. I haven't tested it for myself.

[red knoll]

...

[fiery pecan]

Can't you already fish in bear

[burnt sandal]

yea so stop running them

and embrace the raze EC build

I think sunder is a drop and nightmare you probly keep

but someone smarter than me will figure that out

[versed chasm]

casually tank 17s ? no i did 18s - 19s on m ppal then played ret for a bit since its in a better spot why ?

[random spruce]

nah just wondering

[halcyon jackal]

elune favour nerfed by almost 40%, UF is by 25%. they also lead to the healing nerf to nature guardian, our mastery

[red knoll]

this math isnt mathing

[versed chasm]

ah cause i thought you were trying to dimish my opinion cause you believe if someone plays x class they have y opinion which is a very good way of labeling viewpoints 😄

[bright wyvern]

@quaint pond

[quaint pond]

thrash has nothing to do with nightmare

[halcyon jackal]

estimation, we don't need a precise number

[red knoll]

lol

[random spruce]

no, i just had to check your thing cuz your name is very familiar

[quaint pond]

you'll lose raw healing but much of that is overheal so you'll need to check your logs

[red knoll]

bro has an ai pfp i dont expect much

[rustic kestrel]

yeah the ef nerf is a complete nothing burger with current build

[random spruce]

i think we did keys in SL

[bright wyvern]

I'm gonna assume we don't suddenly lose a quarter of our healing, is that a fair assumption to make?

[quaint pond]

you lose shield per thrash but you don't lose the full amount depending on how often you cap out

[halcyon jackal]

we don't care about healing when we don't need, we care about healing when we do, and that cuts a lot of healing when we do need

[weary rivet]

bear lost %50 healing and %25 damage its official pin it

[quaint pond]

sure but you'll need to go thru your logs

[bright wyvern]

When you need healing, you press Frenzied Regen

?

[versed chasm]

i already slid in ur dms

[quaint pond]

losing raw healing never corresponds to losing that much actual healing

[unborn dock]

Tbh if you rely on your thrash for healing you are beyond saving

[halcyon jackal]

there are plenty of logs out there.

[halcyon jackal]

yes, I do, even a small shield and healing can matter when I have to do risky pulls without incarn

[torn depot]

every time i ran EF it didnt do very much compared to other sources

[cedar mauve]

ya i noticed just now it uses swipe alot more then it should be

[torn depot]

its a weird nerf for sure

[quaint pond]

it's more for those non-healer keys

EF nerf just means you overheal less and your healer overheals less

[slate iris]

they saw the picture of the 5 bears clearing a 20 key huh?

[tame matrix]

cmon lads, make up ur minds and pin, i wanna see if i need to prepare brew

[bright wyvern]

Bear's fine

[hushed oriole]

We’re all deleting our toons and rolling BM hunter

[tame matrix]

les gooooo

[stable wigeon]

Devs balancing by Wowhead posts again

[quaint pond]

if you were gonna swap off bear you would've prepped brew alreayd anyways

[bright wyvern]

Numerically, that is. The playstyle is horrid

[fiery pecan]

You also have a healer who you know can heal you

[quaint pond]

it's kinda deep into the season

[halcyon jackal]

by your logic, you don't need FR, because healer can heal you

[dull sinew]

I mean even with the nerfs we'll keep outdpsing some people most of the time so ig bear will still be fine

[fiery pecan]

I'm just saying that small shield and healing probably won't be missed, it'll convert some of your healers overhealing into healing

[polar terrace]

it's a pretty huge shield bro

[unborn dock]

That's where you need to rely on your defensives, frenzy regen, kiting or your healer. There are so many tools at your disposal.

[gloomy berry]

how large are these guardian nerfs? Enough to not make every group only want guardian druids for keys?

[burnt shore]

Bear is going to be fine - If you're raiding, you'll feel a small nerf, but it will only be small. I just wish that instead of nerfing thrash, they shifted that damage profile from thrash to raze/maul.

[quaint pond]

ya well you know they won't compensate positively

[burnt shore]

No, of course not.

[crimson siren]

Blizzard try not to kill fun for once

Challenge impossible

[red knoll]

"fun"

you must like watching paint dry too

[quaint pond]

it was overall higher in net fun for players

[unborn dock]

Sucks that they didn't buff raze, but if you play EC with apex it's only a 6% damage nerf. And your raze will actually do more damage then thrash now. Druid was pumping too hard anyways

[red knoll]

was it

[quaint pond]

yeah maybe you swap to builds that get nerfed less and they end up better

[toxic sentinel]

Im getting super frustrated every fucking tuning pass bear getting smacked.

[red knoll]

if ur a true bear u should be rejoicing

[polar terrace]

a true bear loves the thrash spam

only fotoms like apex

[red knoll]

they nerfed the shitty build

[quaint pond]

i mean, you know they're bad at tuning and will do random shit they need to fix later

[crimson siren]

Yeah sorry that I like to be op and unreasonably strong on a tank in a game I should probably just wish to be like dk tank rn ?

[quaint pond]

try not to get frustrated at the game you know yo'ure playing

[warm tundra]

🎣

[burnt shore]

The roller coaster of tuning has been annoying to be sure.

[quaint pond]

it's just what your $15 is payign for

and has been for decade+

[unborn dock]

I don't mind people spamming thrash and beeing unkillable, I mind people having the same DPS as me playing around echo procs.

[toxic sentinel]

mission impossible. Wows got me so burned out for the first time in 9 months I skipped 5 days of play this week.

[quaint pond]

maybe time to find a diff game, doesn't seem worth paying to be frustrated

you know teh game isn't gonna change

[rotund maple]

Cringe and overcompensatory behavior.

Be satisfied with being good stop needing more.

[toxic sentinel]

yeah its looking like a detour back to eso actually

[red knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/bye-okay-slide-gif-15172486

[polar terrace]

very anti bear thinking. bears should be powerful. mighty.

[true depot]

The most miserable player base on the planet are wow players
Even more delusional than league

[red knoll]

I wouldnt go that far

[rotund maple]

Nah WoW players are actually so idiotic that their stupidity is lost on them

[polar terrace]

be satisfied with being an idiot. stop needing more

[rotund maple]

ON GOD

[sullen hollow]

Presume we still don't press mangle with these changes?

[rotund maple]

We should create idiocracy

[unborn dock]

Why so much negativity? Can't we rejoice, these changes are actually good

[red knoll]

well the government is trying really hard

[rotund maple]

Finally a reasonable person.

[burnt shore]

I'll have to do the math on this - I wonder if this will bring EC and DotC closer together. - they weren't that far apart to begin with.

[unborn dock]

Turtle no brain enjoyers can spam thrash and be unkillable, apex players can sacrifice some tankiness for some damage. Everyone wins

[noble ledge]

I also don't feel like this is such a big deal, honestly we're so well off this is kind of lucky even c:

[azure ibex]

Anyone sitting on a link to the raid leaders exchange discord? The one on wowhead is invalid

[rotund maple]

hi red panda

big fan

[fiery pecan]

There's always brew if you always want that feeling

[astral ginkgo]

Everyone wins? Somewhere a swipe appreciator still feels left out.

[fiery pecan]

Not everyone my swipe bearchicken build still sucks

[unborn dock]

That is true, remove the shitty sundering roar talent and give swipe a cd with aoe taunt

[noble ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/below-deck-im-your-biggest-fan-biggest-fan-kate-kate-chastain-gif-15861715

[fiery pecan]

One day we'll have a build that requires us to weave through every form

[tender field]

like monk, never use the same form twice for bonus dmg

[fleet shell]

so question how bad its the nerf for tomorrow??

[unborn dock]

Tap on the wrist

[crimson siren]

Yeah I kinda don’t enjoy monk it’s amazing but I sadly enjoy bear even with this cringe spam build again idk why people are so annoyed by being insanely strong even with dumb builds literally every tank over the last few expansions had a similar super stupid but extremely strong build but it is what it is

[fleet shell]

and are the talents gonna change??

[polar terrace]

about a key level worth of nerf

[unborn dock]

True 5 bears will only be able to time 19 Windrunner Not 20.

[hearty wigeon]

Offset by ilvl increase of wep + crests?

[abstract raven]

the nerfs actully really do much

[fleet shell]

will the talents be changing tomorrow?? cuz bitz say they did not like bears not using apx

[red knoll]

the nerfs dont do shit

[abstract raven]

yah so now we are the same as Brew lol

[mental notch]

Is there a decent macro for HOTW starfall taht gets you back into bear form

[unborn dock]

You can play apex or no apex it's up to you what you enjoy. Both are good

[fleet shell]

ive been looking for a videos of what we can spect tomorrow but non og the top bears have come up with nothing

[quaint pond]

you can play exactly the same for 8-10% loss or maybe some new build will pop up

bear theorycrafting is kind of dead so you'll just have to try for yourself or wait

[daring nymph]

Gg so u played it wrong and that’s okay

[grand plinth]

Oh dont you worry

One is on the way

[fiery pecan]

Yeah uh I don't think many tanks had builds as dumb as this was. ppal S1 TWW definitely didn't esp not in GB. Pwar didn't, maybe vdh is the closest in S2 tww

[grand plinth]

I started working on a it today for alternative builds

[abstract raven]

Brys cook is cool

[grand plinth]

But now its just the new builds

[mental notch]

Was only damage effected or do the nerfs effect the tankiness

[fleet shell]

i need the videoooo

[abstract raven]

hey in your gulid how often do you mange?: since you wanna spam MF to get CDR?

[fleet shell]

[grand plinth]

I dont do that

Its barely better in that build anyways

and way worse if you plan on pressing raze

[abstract raven]

so you just hit whats on CD and razw

[grand plinth]

Yeah hit on cd when no thrash+no beam+wont overcap on rage

[abstract raven]

yeah okey cool ima try yourBulid in a 18

[fleet shell]

this its killing me i just wanna know if we ginna now use apex or not

[abstract raven]

no apex

in brys cook

[grand plinth]

No apex for ec

Apex for DOTC

[unborn dock]

I saw a patch notes last week that wild guardian will be removed when the key starts, but I could still get 4 apex procs on the first pull

[grand plinth]

Lemme me give you the builds

CgGA8cL7tpvige+kkmGM9zUPWDAAAAAAAAAAAgZmxswMjZWmZZGmZZZgZzwoJamZWmZmZmlxMAAAAAAMjtZALbzMYMLDgpmZZWmZmBAwCm5BAWMzwAWsAAzMbwA

DOTC

[grand plinth]

It removes the button not the buff

[crimson siren]

Oh no the very complex warrior rotation are joking rn everyone and there grandma did it with not much issue same with vdh maybe paladin was bit sketchy at some times and again that’s just tww I said over expansions not expansion so multiple you want to tell me dk was super complex in SL or DH in df and other cba mentioning every time a tank got giga strong with little to no complexity to there kit

[grand plinth]

EC Raze build
CgGA8cL7tpvige+kkmGM9zUPWDAAAAAAAAAAAgZmZmlZmZMziZZGmZZZgZzwoJamZWmZmZmlxMAAAAAAMjtZALbzMYMLDgpAAAAbYmHAYxMDDML2AYmBA

[abstract raven]

only spend Rage on Ravge and IF?

[grand plinth]

Here you go king. I'll have the video posted tomorrow morning hopfully

[fleet shell]

tytytytyty

[grand plinth]

In DOTC yeah. Or maul in single target

[unborn dock]

What's the point then ? You have it for 1min

[abstract raven]

yeah thoughbt so

[grand plinth]

[abstract raven]

seems like a cook

[quaint pond]

they forgot

[grand plinth]

I think its a side effect of the raid changes maybe?

IDK

[quaint pond]

nah they only flagged wild guardian for removal

they forgot you also need to flag gift

[unborn dock]

Even in AA I could use it before the key starts and get 4 apex on the first pull

[burnt shore]

I'm assuming you don't mean raid.

[quaint pond]

50/50 whether they meant to and forgot, or they didn't realize that's how wild guardian works

[rustic kestrel]

maybe they just wanted to kill the raid cheese but not m+

[grand plinth]

Yes these are both M+ builds

[rustic kestrel]

who can say

[fleet shell]

its that up there the build i will use tomorrow??

[grand plinth]

I am not the person to ask about raid stuff

You can use those builds today even good friend

I 100 parse on them frequently in keys

at the top level

They're just less worse by comparison

Than the beyblade stuff

Tomorrow

[unborn dock]

Tbh I even thought you had 30 seconds to press wild guardian, but you can actually hold it before your incarn comes back on cd

[fleet shell]

its there a better one for m+?? or do i have to use both??

[oblique moat]

pick your favorite

[bright wyvern]

@grand plinth do you swap between those 2 builds depending on the dungeon or just vibes?

[grand plinth]

I was still in the middle of testing both in every key

I think dungeon and comp specific

Like in AA the EC build did more overall

but DOTC was better on the timer

Because it allowed my DK more funell

Since I wasn't owning the lashers

[rustic kestrel]

but i bet the lasher damage was so high 🤓

[grand plinth]

Like I did like 2% less but my dk did like 20% more

[bright wyvern]

Valid sacrifice then yea

[rocky dock]

thrash nerf of 25% incoming. does that change anything?

[sleek lintel]

Direct damage of thrash so not all of it

[bright wyvern]

Is there a difference in boss damage between those builds?

A notable one that is

[sleek lintel]

Blizzard literally wrote they expect bear to remain the highest dps tank

[rocky dock]

i mean, is EC no apex still going to be the path forward

[sleek lintel]

Did you read the post?

They didn't want to break the build this season lol

[bright wyvern]

EC no apex will be more affected than other builds but overall it shouldn't be a sudden night-and-day difference

Remember it's only the direct damage that takes the nerf, not the bleed portion

[rocky dock]

i read the post, but they cant do combat math. and have been "balancing" it since week 1

[versed jacinth]

In MC is it possible after first boss to grab the first four mobs and move around that gnarlin guy. I see people skipping past the 4 but if you dindt have a skip

[bright wyvern]

Yes, just let them walk up and moonfire them, they don't pull the big guy, then you just hug one of the sides and get past

[hasty stratus]

damn so instead of 1.2m on first alg pull ill do like 1.1m 🙁

[quaint pond]

less, direct thrash is a larger part of your dps for that one pull than the entire dungeon

[hasty stratus]

sad times

it was absolutely busted though tbf

[plucky folio]

Got home and heard blizz is nerfing apexless build, did they nuked or still gonna be worth using?

[torpid yoke]

General consensus is its a perfect, but guardian will still be S Tier level

[warm tundra]

if i dont take sundering where do i put that point

guess there arent many places for it

lol

[forest flume]

so that makes it so instead of last week's 200% buff, it would have been 125% ?