guardian

[burnt sandal]

Otherwise tho I run 1/2 or not at all for other dungeons

And yea it feels pretty reliable. Plus you feel safe since you have FR rolling the entire kite

Sorta comes down to if you are a 3 stack then kite or 5 stack and pray guy

[half cave]

Ya persistence makes travel form so useful. Usually I don't move and just try to heal through pulls but that pull specifically (and the one after sky reach first boss) are the two i always kite the dot after cds fall off lol

[burnt sandal]

I tend to zone out see 4-5 and then go red alert lol

[half cave]

I'll have to try it. I don't usually feel in danger during cooldowns. It's more of a thing of healers not being able to heal the dot after cds up. I usually die after the pack dies haha if I don't kite

But i like the idea of being able to stay in bear on that one

[brazen tinsel]

Symbiotic is pretty useless imo

[burnt sandal]

It’s also generally useful for zooming around and pulling shit for pulls during the rest of the dungeon as well

Once you already have it

[half cave]

If you're running Elunes Favored and have a friend who isn't good at popping defensive it's nice lol. That's a lot of healing to funnel into a dps. But we don't benefit from it at all

[muted pulsar]

Symbiotic probably good if you're playing with mage or WW

Since those classes are absolute paper

[quiet radish]

Where are yall getting the build link for the no apex build

[violet holly]

pins

[jovial mauve]

AUG is also paper

[quiet radish]

@violet holly where are the pins

[violet holly]

if you are on pc its top right corner 📌

[quiet radish]

On my phone right now

[violet holly]

need to tap the channel name at the top and go to the pins tab

[spring drum]

Hello, does anyone play a m+ 20+- tank with the HOTW Moonkin form? Is the HOTW + cat form currently used?

I changed my main from prot pala to teddy bear and I'm still learning

[rustic kestrel]

yes

[quiet radish]

@violet holly there is no link for the no apex build under pins…

[rustic kestrel]

moonkin is great for wide pulls gathering

[rustic kestrel]

try reading a little harder

[spring drum]

Do you have any macros for HOTW that prevent you from clicking them three times? Change the form using HOTW, return to Guardian

[rustic kestrel]

I just click moonkin and click heart of the wild

[burnt sandal]

Cast sequence would be the move

If you want something like that

[spring drum]

Are you doing this before the pull? Because I understand that during the pull pack, changing into a moonkin form = dead.

[rustic kestrel]

Typically moonkin is before a pack for gathers, otherwise Cat form hotw is usually better. But also doing it mid pack wont really kill you. Persistence+Moonkin form has like 1.5 ironfurs of armor

[hazy mural]

just becareful when u go back bear cause u start with no IF or the fake IF of moonkin

[brazen tinsel]

Yea or after you pull them but before they reach you

For example AA first pull, you can moonfire, taunt, moonfire to pull all 3 packs at the same time

And then go boomy hotw back to bear before they reach you

Free aggro on every mob

[spring drum]

I need to stack IF 5-6 and i can change form? Fast use Hotw and back bear?

[hazy mural]

on EC< u lose all stacks if u change

[brazen tinsel]

You lose your IF when you swap form

[hazy mural]

even on cat

[rustic kestrel]

If you are EC, you lose all ironfur. If you are dotc you keep ironfur for cat only

[spring drum]

🙁

[hazy mural]

easiest trick is to bS before u change

[spring drum]

can i pls macro cat form and moonkin form ?

[torpid yoke]

The build I'm using is using symbiotic relationship, I've been throwing SR on the healer. Should I get rid of it as a talent?

[vague sage]

Its not amazing, but its an ok lazy pick

[half cave]

Not worth using on a healer. Throw it on a bad DPS that dies a lot. Otherwise don't take it

[topaz sparrow]

• players not taking apex talents.
• blizzard moves all bear power into apex
• bears have low threat outside apex
• blizzard moves all power into thrash
• bears not taking apex talents

That about right?

[olive hare]

Its a decent talent, but you usually place it on the squishiest dps spec in your group. hunters for example

Worst player not so much, have to reapply it when the player dies and that shifts you out of bear.

[half cave]

Is it possible to make blizzard Cooldown manager different for different talent builds? If not, is this possible via addons?

[rustic kestrel]

**put thrash dmage increase into apex, fixed

[half cave]

This isn't true anymore actually. They changed it. It lasts through death

[olive hare]

Thats a gg change

[half cave]

Yeah it's the only reason I even consider taking it anymore haha. I used to skip it entirely

[hollow ferry]

5 bear timed 20 what?

[olive hare]

I'm somehow assuming they'll turn touch thrashes target scaling. Wondering anyways why its still 20-capped.

[arctic grail]

Are stacks of dream guide being used when they expire or are just lost?

Always used cenarius

[forest flume]

It's nice that 5 bears timed a 20, means the nerf bat will hit even harder, can't wait

[half cave]

Honestly I have no idea. I don't track it. I just let it throw regrowth

[rustic kestrel]

they go byebye

but thats good, it means no ones taking damage

[olive hare]

🤣 got shit on so hard in the comment section so hard because I was saying that tanks doing almost dps levels of damage is not healthy "5tanks cant do highkeys". ah yeah.

*of an awoo shart

*short

well almost the same

[hollow ferry]

Why even play dps and heal anymore

[half cave]

I wish blizzard would get guardian right lol. Insane changes every week.

I think nopex is fun. But i don't like that thrash is so strong that EC is best for raids too. Dotc is fun in raids

[arctic grail]

Well that's sad when everyone is at 50% hp and stacks just vanish

[copper hornet]

isn't that concern literally the entire reason tanks do less dmg than dps

Some people are not the brightest

[red knoll]

People with the take "i think nopex is fun" need to be examined

Is watching paint dry also fun for you?

[forest flume]

I don't mind if people find it fun, but it's just gross how strong a brain-dead rotation is atm

and like, playing it, I can see how strong it is, it is boring as F, but i look at numbers and like "why would I bother playing the fun build", zzz

[red knoll]

Yeah

The easiest build should not be the strongest or even close in power level

[forest flume]

that logic makes sense but never really works, see: BM hunter existing at the top for a couple of seasons in the past

[red knoll]

I mean within its own spec largely

[rustic kestrel]

its not even an issue of an easy build, its an issue that it breaks every facet of the class design because they fucked up a tuning pass

[red knoll]

At least BM uses its core abilities

[topaz sparrow]

Is MDI fixed to a game version or do balance changes affect it. Cuz I imagine they don’t want to change anything until after mdi…

[rustic kestrel]

mdi is on tourney realm

so it doesnt matter

[urban otter]

I have a question, first time tanking as bear, how do we use heart of the wild?

[vague sage]

Go cat every 2 minute and press it

Thats all. Dont weave or anything

[red knoll]

Use barkskin and lunar beam before

[quasi gull]

Its not fun, its effective

[vague sage]

I forgot how annoying it was to use as EC. You just lose all your fur stacks

[red knoll]

Okay but people are saying its fun

[quasi gull]

Because it's catered to normie level skill

[vague sage]

Its not catered to anything. They just did it by accident

[quasi gull]

But in high keys it definitely simplifies pulls when you just focus on surviving and maintaining aggro

[urban otter]

No way im gonna go cat on a boss

thats one way to die for sure

[vague sage]

Bosses are easier to do it on honestly. Trash is where you have to be careful

Just make sure you have persistence talented

[narrow vine]

I mean it is nice having a tank spec that isn't constantly scared of dying. If the survivability isn't paired with overpowered thrash that would be cool.

[red knoll]

That was never something that took up mental load

Guardian was always tanky

When played properly

Lol

[urban otter]

Yeah but its not ideal lol

[quasi gull]

It just became easier

[sweet gorge]

Shred you are in here every single day fighting the good fight aren't ya

[quasi gull]

It was burstier but you had to decide between ravage or ironfur

Now its just ironfur

[red knoll]

You didnt have to decide

Also incorrect to assume its just ironfur

Its called managing your stacks

[quasi gull]

Highest key?

[red knoll]

Stacks past 4 are actually useless

18 currently i havent pushed in weeks

[pearl herald]

[red knoll]

I cba when my group isnt pushing

[quasi gull]

Im just saying there's a reason why its now fun to do 20s on guardian

[red knoll]

Pugging is miserable

[quasi gull]

Cope

[red knoll]

???

Im not pugging

Fuck that

[sweet gorge]

I'll never pug M+

[quasi gull]

I only pug because group building is giga aids

[red knoll]

People acting like theyre better because they pug are coping

[night field]

I can only pug since my guild is trash

[quasi gull]

One team there for a week next they gone

[red knoll]

Wasting hundreds if not thousands of hours a season

For no gain

[quasi gull]

Pug more effectively

[red knoll]

Lol????

Thats def up there with the most nonsense take anyone has ever had in this channel

[quasi gull]

The point is the new bear allows you to focus more on your group

[red knoll]

It doesnt

[night field]

yea and using utility and stuff

[red knoll]

Lmao

[quasi gull]

I have more time to offheal with regrowth procs, time to survive and I can pull much bigger

[red knoll]

You do not get more globals

Lmfao

What

[night field]

yea regrowth off healing is pretty fun indeed you can save someone pretty nicely sometimes

[red knoll]

You could do that before

[quasi gull]

You havent pushed from 18s in how long?

What are you doing then

[red knoll]

Raiding, focusing on alts

[quasi gull]

Raiding

Okay this is pointless then

[midnight flint]

No bear plays that in 20s tho.

[red knoll]

You think you have more globals as ec

Which is just false

You're just bad man admit it

[quasi gull]

Cannot argue that

[red knoll]

It did not take more cognitive load to manage your ironfur stacks

You can still press your buttons

Its just less buttons now for no reason

[midnight flint]

Eh the DotC build was way less free for sure.

[quasi gull]

Dps is less priority and crowd management and effective pulls is. This is the change

You are mad that you can't feel like you are doing "work" anymore

But the priority is different

[sweet gorge]

I'll be honest, the only thing I'm mad about at this point is whatever happens when blizz tries to fix this mess

[red knoll]

Im mad im not using core abilities

To my fucking spex

[midnight flint]

You are 100% not a bigger help to ur grp as EC. Its exactly the same haha. Ur not a prot pally that can carry a party defensively. Ur a thrash bot with a kick and 2 stops.

[half cave]

Same

[quasi gull]

Cry a river on the blizz forum they wont let you use ravage anymoee

[sweet gorge]

Genuinely, I don't know how they fix this without revamping apex talents. But I may be stupid.

[red knoll]

Blocked

[quasi gull]

Shoe fits

[sweet gorge]

It's perfectly reasonable to be bummed out that you don't really get to effectively use your full damage kit anymore. Some folks do enjoy complexity with more to do.

[oblique moat]

post height and salary

[quasi gull]

Aggro is good, dmg is stable, survivability is optimal

[midnight flint]

Do you have some sort of stake in EC stonks or what. You seem emotional.

Ignoring tier set, 2 core buttons and apex is just bad design.

[half cave]

I think Nopex is fun. I just don't like that EC is good for raid lol

[exotic verge]

rofl

[sweet gorge]

If you only care about output then specs like this probably do make you happy.

If you care about what you're doing to get to that output and enjoyed what it was before, you're probably less happy.

Nothing wrong with either side of that tbh.

[quasi gull]

I dont, but I dont see why the tears are rolling for the apex nerf

[red knoll]

Fotm rerollers cant leave this chat soon enough

[rustic kestrel]

New Patch: "Bear now radiates a damage and healing aura. They cannot die, or lose aggro"
-Nopex Enjoyers "wow this is the most fun version of bear yet! I can concentrate on my netflix fully now!"

[midnight flint]

Tears rolling = // =pointing out degenerate game design.

[quasi gull]

Its literally solved every problem that people had

[sweet gorge]

Yeah like

[red knoll]

Yesg....

[proven cedar]

Funnily enough after observing all of this it seems like the opposite is true 😂 my guy just likes the current build and all you ultra-eltist aholes are jumping down his throat for it.

It seems like you and the other giant baby Shred have some personal stake in DotC considering how much you’re crying at someone saying they like playing this build

[midnight flint]

EC would be fine if they adjust lunation.

[mental finch]

Do you honestly think that bear is going to stay this way....that it isn't going to be adjusted heavily?

[quasi gull]

This essentially gave bear a chance to fight for the upper echelons

[half cave]

Personally i like low-compelxity builds in M+. You have so much more to worry about and survivability is core. I like more interesting rotations for raid because your dps is most of your job outside of taunt and boss positionings. Survivability isn't a huge factor. Your job is less difficult.

Nopex is fun. If Nopex was the bis M+ build and Dotc ravage was the best Raid build i wouldn't mind

[quasi gull]

And apex will get buffed in the future

[half cave]

We're getting more nerfs lol.

[sweet gorge]

If you don't understand why people don't like the fact that they're no longer using half their kit, then it's perfectly fine to admit you just wanted something really easy you could succeed at a high level on and that you didn't care for it before. That's fine.

Not everyone has to be happy about it just because you like it.

[quasi gull]

But this was a short term fix to allow them to compete

[rustic kestrel]

(bear was the only other tank on the front page of runs before this change and had pulled multiple rank 1 keys)

[torn depot]

thrash nerf is 100% happening

[forest flume]

I was hoping for bear nerfs so I can have fun again, now I want bear nerfs so the people currently talking have to reroll again

[midnight flint]

Whoa hold ur horses. When did I say anything derogatory to anyone. Dont get defensive for no reason and keep your composure. This is a video game, sir.

[sweet gorge]

the fotm community is a weird one

[torn depot]

tbh the new build doesnt even have more survivability, its just easier to play

[pale musk]

Hey
in EC, why do we play with "Circle of the Wild" instead of "Circle of the Heavens" ?

[half cave]

Let's be so real tho bear rotation has always been simple. Obviously not 2-button simple. But we were if spam in raids for years lol

[noble ledge]

Because the tooltip is a liar :c

It does not do what it says it does

[quaint pond]

there's a pin on it

[quasi gull]

Wild

[pale musk]

damn, ok xD

[proven cedar]

oh suddenly playing the victim now? xD convenient

[torn depot]

because its not actually physical / magical damage it boosts, just boosts a set of abilities

[mental finch]

You are giving Blizz way too much credit if you think this was intended.

[sweet gorge]

because those spells work off a spell list and not like the tooltip says

Wild buffs bear abilities. Heavens doesn't other than like, moonfire.

[red knoll]

Ultra elitist = not wanting your spec to be degenerately broken to the point of needless simplicity?

[oblique moat]

yeah no way blizz intended people to not run apex

[pale musk]

Thanks guys !

[torn depot]

wild buffs thrash and lunar beam, even if they deal arcane dmg

[red knoll]

Fuck right off .i.

[midnight flint]

Dude for the love of anything check the post history, you got the wrong guy. Jesus F.

[half cave]

This isn't true. You have so much more armor and healing by a lot

[quasi gull]

Clowns are clowns, the same people crying about complexity walk with their chin high knowing they play arcane mage thinking they are the smartest guy in the universe

[torn depot]

you can have the same armor and healing playing apex

[quasi gull]

Oh I want my class to be 24 different combinations to feel unique

[oblique moat]

have you played arcane this xpac

[rustic kestrel]

Or ignoring 3 core abilities, or ignoring a talent you have to path through that buffs maul by 30%, or a tier set literlaly around maul

[half cave]

If you don't cast maul, sure. If you don't cast maul, why play apex?

[quasi gull]

No but I know what it was

[sweet gorge]

Why are you so upset that someone wants to do more than just push thrash, moonfire and lunar beam?

[oblique moat]

keyword was

[midnight flint]

EC gets healing through arcane dam, DotC gets more dr via dreadful wounds.

[torn depot]

because you dont need to ironfur 24/7, and apex burst is nice for both damage and survivability

[quasi gull]

Play a different class then xD

[oblique moat]

LMAO

[sweet gorge]

yeah the fotm crowd sure is something

my lord

[quasi gull]

I likE BiG nUmBerS

[midnight flint]

Guardian civil war. 2 Button thrashers vs Ravage enjoyers.

[noble ledge]

I am again in the middle

[oblique moat]

yeah this spec has been like this for a week but YOURE in the wrong for liking what it was for months

[half nacelle]

It's usually people who want to push more than just thrash moonfire and lunar beam are being extra toxic and weird about it, isn't it?

[azure ibex]

[noble ledge]

Play whatever you want, but I also kind of think this current playstyle is bit silly

[quasi gull]

Look monkeys, you can still place dotc but when you are lower key than the rest, dont whine

[half cave]

Blizzard just needs to make mangle do arcane damage. Nopex fixed. Ez

[noble ledge]

⚖️

[sweet gorge]

Not from what I see in this chat today

[oblique moat]

[rustic kestrel]

Droolers vs people who like to make a menaingful choice or two

[noble ledge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-girl-head-pat-headpat-anime-gif-15491115994804690187

[quasi gull]

100000%

[azure ibex]

[rustic kestrel]

more anime girls pls

[half nacelle]

That's what I have seen from this chat past this week

[midnight flint]

Your language is atrocious. Its embarrassing please stop.

[half nacelle]

& from russian guardian druid discord also

[grand plinth]

Also this is just silly

[azure ibex]

Need something to break up the absolute droll that is arguing about nopex all day smh

[quasi gull]

If there was something more logical to the argument then I would give credit

[grand plinth]

DOTC is still as good

People are acting like DOTC is like 30% worse

[quasi gull]

I want complexity to feel good

[grand plinth]

when its like 1% overall less

[azure ibex]

wait droll might not be the right word

drivel?

[rustic kestrel]

ass cancer

[azure ibex]

Yeah that

[hushed sonnet]

You guys at it again 😂

[noble ledge]

Pasha please stay here among us for the rest of the time nwn

[red knoll]

No its usually us who get fed up with the nopex enjoyers acting like they know better and coming in here asking questions and/or giving terrible advice after playing the spec all of 6 days

[noble ledge]

Bring balance to this section

[midnight flint]

The logic is that the spec is obviously missing its design goal by ignoring 2 core buttons, its flagship feature and its tier set. What more logic do you need.

[red knoll]

And half of them just ragebait

[noble ledge]

Harmony

And peace

[quasi gull]

FYI I was exclusively apex until last week

But why do it 10 times harder than it needs to be??

[noble ledge]

And once the chat calms down you can go back to Warrior chat okay

[quasi gull]

If you can do half as much for more money, you will say no?

[noble ledge]

Once we get omega nerfed

[red knoll]

You mean monk chat

Right

[noble ledge]

Monk chat probably

[azure ibex]

I fear there can be no harmony in these wartorn lands until bear gets shot

Nah i dont fw monk

[sweet gorge]

I don't mind that no apex exists. I don't have an issue with anyone wanting to play it or either spec.

But looking at our tier, our apex, and our overall talent setup... everyone that has played bear longer than this week knows that this build isn't going to work out long-term at this point. That it's the antithesis of intended design.

I am genuinely concerned for how they course correct that. Maybe they don't? But it seems way more likely that they're gonna do something to fix this to bring it in line with what their design philosophy was and god help us when that happens.

[quasi gull]

Maybe its better for bear to get D tier

[red knoll]

No apex existing is fine, it being the default and best numerically is not

[azure ibex]

I spend most of my time in skyhold talking about ignore pain and food

[midnight flint]

Because I am playing a game and not working a job I hate?

But seriously, the fun aspect is not even an argument. If you can’t see the flaws in the current iteration then you need to get something fixed.

[half cave]

This chat is so funny. Idk what people are pressed tbh. Nopex is obviously getting nerfed in a week because it's a absurdly strong and clearly uninteded. Enjoy the silly dumb spec until then

[quasi gull]

Flaws????

[noble locust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UXmUJZIH7c
No, BAER A tier, Pandas kept us from getting to S tier

[quasi gull]

Copium

[half nacelle]

People will still pretend that using Apex and Ravage is a thousand times harder than the entire EC gameplay, when in the end we’re all playing on a Bear that’s 99% identical in difficulty 🥀

[azure ibex]

lmfao

10/10

[half nacelle]

I also feel bad that a "brainless" build is more effective, but I don't understand why or how people want to fight it

[quasi gull]

Every tank is getting buffed

[hushed sonnet]

Imagine complaining about the complexity of a spec and then playing bear anyways, who cares

[quasi gull]

Druid was brought closer to monk for a reason

[half nacelle]

true

[midnight flint]

Do you press mangle?
Do you press maul?
Do you make use of your tier set?
Can you consider your Apex at least slightly viable?

[mental finch]

You honestly think they are going to leave bear like this?

[half cave]

I like nopex lol. I just know it's not lasting

[quasi gull]

Once MDI is over, nothing matters

They will let the kids play and do whatever

[red knoll]

Bruv is just ragebaiting atp

Just block him like me

[quasi gull]

Not even

[midnight flint]

I like the idea of being able to drop apex points. Its just not even in the cards to play apex as EC in dungeons.

[half cave]

This isn't true. We got nerfed after we weren't even close to most played for world first.

[quasi gull]

U said you already blocked me

[mental finch]

Why are you currently in the MDI?

[forest flume]

people coming here asking questions is fine w/e build they play, tbh

[sweet gorge]

I bet the mods and admins love reading this chat

[torn depot]

i miss when this chat was quiet and we built bear towers

[sweet gorge]

just a bunch of bears fighting constantly

[hushed sonnet]

👍

[red knoll]

Asking questions is fine, its the people that ask questions, you give them a detailed answer and they say "no actually youre wrong" and keep playing the way theyre playing

[quasi gull]

Thank god we have a human

[hushed sonnet]

Well shred seems to be the centre of it all more times than not, common denominator and all that

[noble locust]

BAER remembers when this chat was mainly BAER towers

[half cave]

The design issue is Apex + Ravage. If our class is even remotely balanced and it's a maul-centered spec like apex and tier imply, nothing EC has competes with ravage. Dotc is THE naul build

[red knoll]

Which ones

[quasi gull]

All i said was, EC is effective and a good decision

[sweet gorge]

Oh just all of 'em. Just a constant shit show now.

[forest flume]

I'm still of the opinion that no-apex shouldn't be that good and should be gutted, doesnt chagne that people can come here and ask questions about it

[red knoll]

EC was ahead in raid and only minorly behind in m+ before this FYI

[quasi gull]

So every half decent bear should peak 3.8 then??

[torn depot]

EC lunar beam + apex works pretty well, i'd say its even better than ravage since you have more control over it and a lunar beam powered raze does comparable, if not more, damage

[forest flume]

?

[quasi gull]

Why shouldn't bears have a build that allow them to scale

[grand plinth]

The main issue is people repeating stuff when they don't know anythign is crazy. Raze is not pointless. DOTC is not trolling. It's still omega fine.

[forest flume]

People were doing 22s as bear before this week

which was the top key level

[half cave]

To the extent that the no apex build gets us away from the maul centered builds, I like it. They just need to make mangle useful imo. I think if Mangle was an arcane spell, it would feel fine

[quasi gull]

The REAL problem with the "meta" is that there is always only 1 tank at the top every season

[red knoll]

The floor of bear got razed

[grand plinth]

Its just like when DOTC was meta and people acted like EC was trolling when it was like .5% behind DOTC in power

[rotund maple]

Just a cat passing through.

[azure ibex]

Flee creature, flee

[red knoll]

Cattfeine arent you wanted in feral chat for recommending a certain website

[quasi gull]

If blizzard can actually make the top 100 colorful and not GREEN or PURPLE or PINK then its a good step

[forest flume]

I think the issue with all this is that even if raze / dotc centered builds are still good, is it really worth the effort over pressing 2 buttons? In an ideal world, the answer should always be "Yes, by a mile". Right now it's clearly not

[quasi gull]

Nothing ragebait about it

[torn depot]

i find mangle to be pretty useful for no apex, for single target damage or rage generation

[half cave]

In sustained damage sure. But it had lower burst and lower overall. And if that's the case, it will never be even close. Because burst damage is much more valuable

[forest flume]

It's not what is going on though. People are timing +20s with FIVE bears

[red knoll]

Ofc it had lower burst thats the point.

[grand plinth]

I think it depends on the person. I can't play the two button build. I literally play like shit cause I wanna die the whole time

So for me its better

[sweet gorge]

that was fun to see this morning

[red knoll]

Im actually doing worse with the 2 button build

Lmao

[midnight flint]

Yeah EC and DoTC got separated design wise by apex and tier set. It was fucked to begin with. EC at least needs Maul included in Lunation and have it do arcane dam too or something, if they want to keep the current set/apex.

I never liked an apex around incarn to begin with if I am honest.

It was fun having an actual dps cooldown tho.

[red knoll]

Its so fucking bad

[torn depot]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-fight-kung-fu-punch-kick-gif-17355780

[red knoll]

I feel my brain dying

[forest flume]

Are you me? Lmao. I literally play like ultimate dogshit when I play this no-apex thing. Parsing green and blue while still doing 95+ with dotc/apex

[grand plinth]

Yeah and thats the cool part about WoW

you can still parse a literal 100

with my EC raze build

[azure ibex]

https://tenor.com/view/bear-exploding-gif-18403884229748594041

[red knoll]

The issue is I know im playing like shit and still doing 100k overall

Thats so dumb

[forest flume]

hopefully this becomes reality tonight!

[rustic kestrel]

this stupid fucking gif makes me laugh every time

[forest flume]

9:43pm est is my prediction still

[grand plinth]

and like yeah that doesn't mean that the 2 button build doing the same damage as the more effort builds isn't a game design failure that should be changed

[half cave]

I just like when the specs feel different. I don't want to do the exact same KB rotation with both specs. Nopex is obviously an issue right now because you don't press mangle and I expect them to fix that. But I like when laser bear feels like laser bear instead of still being centered around maul. TWW was much better in this regard IMO. Cat bear vs laser. I like having a different playstyle in mythic Plus compared to raid

[quasi gull]

There is more hate about bear from the bear community than outside 😂

[knotty oracle]

is myth weapon better than crafted considering the ilvl upgrade tomorrow?

[red knoll]

I think if you have a spec that removes core abilities from your spec it should be changed

Maybe thats a hot take

[rustic kestrel]

myth is always better than crafted

[half cave]

And I like being able to use the other cap stones for once instead of just killing blow. That part feels great

[red knoll]

Everyone uses gg wym

[half cave]

I mean using sundering roar and the waking nightmare or whatever it's called one instead of just doing killing blow every single build

Like obviously nopex rotation has problems. Especially with no mangle. But I do like the build diversity being able to use those talents

[red knoll]

Well youre not supposed to have every capstone

Also you could take either before

[torn depot]

tbh that's more because those 2 talents are way undertuned rather than a EC/DOTC problem

[red knoll]

Nothing was stopping you

[half cave]

If this is your mindset, then just play DOTC and stop complaining about nopex lol

Be realistic. You're going to play the best talents

[quasi gull]

When everyone goes back to the DOTC and questions why performance goes down, I hope you give yourselves a pat on the back

"Oh my dotc is not buffed, everyone plays ec, why am I not loved"

[red knoll]

Okay but those arent the best talents

[half cave]

Yeah that's true. Also sundering roar feels horrible on the GCD. It should be off IMO. But it's more so that maul is incredibly overtuned as our power budget which forced every build into maul focus.

[midnight flint]

Man you are way too invested. Do something else. Its not that deep.

[quasi gull]

Its about having resets

[rustic kestrel]

big strawman

[half cave]

Clearly they are. Otherwise this entire conversation wouldn't be about the fact that people are upset about that build being the best lol

[rustic kestrel]

its not about ec for dotc

[red knoll]

They only work because this build doesnt press a core ability of our spec

No theyre not

[rustic kestrel]

its about a slop lobotomized build vs actually playing bear

[half cave]

But they're the best talents for that build

[quasi gull]

If you understand how to do thrash resets your dmg is sky high

[half cave]

You're being pedantic

[red knoll]

Okay man

[half cave]

I'm just saying like this is the first time we get to use two talents that are brand new to this expansion that we haven't touched until now because they sucked

And that's pretty cool

[red knoll]

Instead of settling for shit designed talents why not ask that those talents be reworked

[half cave]

I'm not saying that there aren't problems with the no apex build. Obviously there are. But that part is pretty cool

[red knoll]

They weren't touched because they are ass

And they continue to be ass

[forest flume]

Nobody here cares wether EC or DOTC is best, the issue is the rotation with no-apex is hot garbage, while in Midnight we finally had an actual rotation that was engaging and made sense for the first time in YEARS, that is barely worth playing anymore

[midnight flint]

Big understanding needed. Mucho braino.

[torn depot]

i think sundering is a pretty interesting idea, the numbers are just too low

[quasi gull]

"Actually playing bear" 😂

[rustic kestrel]

3 core abilities are not pressed

the core bear abilities

[quasi gull]

The fact that you label one build to be only bear is just funny

[rustic kestrel]

THREE

CORE

ABILITIES

[half cave]

If I could ask Blizzard to design guardian how I want that would be great LOL

But that's not going to happen. They have no idea what the fuck they're doing with the spec. I'm just not being a gloomer about the fact that I get to use new talents for once

In a build that's getting nerfed in a week 100%

[rustic kestrel]

imagine telling frost mages they cna no longer use frozen orb, ice lance, and frost bolt

[quasi gull]

CLASSIC WAS JUST 1 ABILITY. FROSTBOLT, SHADOWBOLT ETC ETC

[rustic kestrel]

see how fucking stupid that is?

[midnight flint]

Its okay to like this build mate. Its just delusional to argue that its not fundamentally broken.

[rustic kestrel]

yes and it was dogshit?

theres a reason its not like that anymore?

[quasi gull]

Its not broken, its simple and works

Even if they give 30% nerf to thrash, I'll still play it

[rustic kestrel]

ok

cool for you

[midnight flint]

Are you actively ragebaiting at this point? Or are you literally this dense by design.

[red knoll]

Probably a bit of both

[quasi gull]

The fact that parsing is the priority for you shows that you have your priorities absolutely BENT

[sweet gorge]

why would you ever bring up classic class design as if it had a shred of relevance over 20 years later

that's crazy work

[rustic kestrel]

where did the word parsing even come from

okay its actual ragebait

[quasi gull]

Scroll

[opal adder]

Bring back thorns of iron as a choice node with raze. Nerf trash a little bit. Buff raze a little bit(make raze be like 2-5% more dps then TOI when played perfectly). Make thorns of iron interact with apex. Everyone is happy, iron fur macroer can still chill and have a good time and raze enjoyer can keep their feeling of superiority going

[copper hornet]

Its guardians identity to be the brain dead tank, the sooner you realize that the sooner you realize that thrash is the only core bear spell

[torpid yoke]

Bro, they need to leave guardian alone and let it live

[quasi gull]

The apexers are more invested in just shit talking than playing their spec

[half cave]

If I were going to ask for a rework, it would be - make mangle arcane with ec talents and change SR into something that replaces Maul as a spender to make it buff your dots or something instead of do big increased damage. Something you maintain instead of spamming

Boom - you use all your abilities in EC nopex. Big-Maul builds aren't the only viable one, and Dotc isn't miles better than EC because it's so much better at maul with ravage.

[rustic kestrel]

honestly, they should change guardian so I when i que up for the dungeon, and ai runs it for me

that would be the most fun

[mental finch]

They won't

[topaz sparrow]

IIN MY DAY we had one button and we liked it

[midnight orchid]

does anyone have a link to the upcoming changes?

[half cave]

And gives the class a very clear identity between dots and burst

But I don't work for Blizzard and they're not going to fucking listen to me so I might as well enjoy the silly build haha

[torpid yoke]

They need to. Its perfect

[quasi gull]

If its so easy, turn off your monitor and remember the route

[violet holly]

@quiet radish in the pins there's this message with links to important stuff, including builds #guardian message

[urban otter]

Man the fact that you never press raze, the rage spender to deal damage, should warn be an indicator that it is in fact broken lol

[midnight flint]

The issue with spending rage only on IF is that you might as well not have rage then. Because there is no decision or management needed. There has to be a second spender or you might as well just turn ironfur into demon spikes like for vdh. 100% uptime set and forget.

[narrow vine]

Make iron fur not stack just reset duration. Spend extra rage on damage. Balance numbers appropriately. Us smooth brains don't worry about dying and bear enjoyers get to hit all the buttons.

[topaz sparrow]

I don’t want no apex. I DO want a no maul option.

[still locust]

Yeah, no

That's like a frost mage asking for a no ice lance option

[sweet gorge]

turn ironfur into a 1 hour buff and get rid of the rage bar

let's be truly unhinged

[half cave]

I agree with this. There needs to be an alternative spender besides maul if you're going to have any sort of viable, interesting no-maul build. Thorn of iron was incredibly toxic. I think having a spender that buffs your dots and arcane damage would make a lot of sense.

[copper hornet]

@rustic kestrel btw youre getting ragebaited by the fotm rerollers that started doing bear keys this week. You cannot win.

[still locust]

Or a marksman hunter asking for a no aimed shot

[merry quest]

It’s ferals identity to be neither seen nor heard

[rustic kestrel]

I know

[merry quest]

Silly kitty

[opal adder]

Rage for brez, rage management at the end of pulls, maybe save some rage to get more IF stacks when the tank buster happens

[rustic kestrel]

I honestly havent been coming in here much, but then I got pinged, started reading, and now I cant stop

[torn depot]

its an amusing shitshow

[midnight flint]

Yeah no, nice try tho.

[sweet gorge]

definitely train wreck adjacent

[torn depot]

gotta enjoy while it lasts

[copper hornet]

did u say something

[opal adder]

Solid reply

[torn depot]

sneaky kitties

[still locust]

Kitch didn't say deaf

[red knoll]

I have over 40 people blocked in this channel now lmao

[urban otter]

IF should be turned into a demon spikes and thats it

[torpid yoke]

This could actually lead to some interesting gameplay

[red knoll]

Im sure pepega has a totally normal take

Let's see

[still locust]

I'm at least like 85% certain we're getting an ironfur rework this expansion

[rustic kestrel]

people act like pressing maul once every 10-15 seconds is the most difficult math problem theyve ever had to solve. To press maul you must have a math/science/womens studies degree, otherwise its impossible for a normal human

[violet holly]

50%

[outer cave]

What is the trick to stay awake while playing moon bear? Im constantly falling asleep no matter that I try

[torn depot]

get rid of ironfur stacks, buff the number, make maul/raze buff or extend ironfur

[quasi gull]

I think the ultimate qualm is in WoW, is people begging to have a "complete" and "full" design when the meta and adjustments to every season ALWAYS changes. You will never have that full build you want, take what works and play the damn game

[red knoll]

Eait

[urban otter]

Druid and Warrior are the only tanks that need to spend resources for active mitigation, and warrior has TWO to keep up + using ravage for damage

[red knoll]

Wait

[urban otter]

Its nonsense

[red knoll]

Pepega is on the right side of history?

[shut jasper]

bro's class identity is being the egirl/eboy healer 😔

[copper hornet]

Wrong

[still locust]

Or just realise that a lot of viable builds are almost identically strong, just not meta

[copper hornet]

My class identity is being a predator

Im disc not holy

[still locust]

Eyo what

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/dog-say-what-wait-what-huh-confused-gif-6106526198908117631

[quasi gull]

I completely agree

[outer cave]

Thrash moonfire lunar beam omh kill me now

[shut jasper]

method josh spec

smh

[red knoll]

Pepega is based now

[still locust]

Add mangle and maul to the mix

[outer cave]

It's noy even fun like shadowlands s2

[copper hornet]

I dont follow the spec identity though sry

[still locust]

Something about a broken clock

[copper hornet]

Yea..

[outer cave]

Why add global that are a dps loss? Just for entertainment to stay awake? I guess you might be right, you do 0 dps if you fully fall asleep

[quasi gull]

Anyway nothing left to be said, I'll be back on wednesday to laugh at all the heretics

[still locust]

I mean it's not strictly speaking a dps loss

[rustic kestrel]

you're very cool and edgy

[quasi gull]

Hope those 95 parses in your 17s is keeping your chin high

[still locust]

Are we gatekeeping key levels?

Get out

[midnight flint]

My only gripe with the nopex build is that it is obviously a waste of design space and resources. Regardless of whether it works or whether its fun. It is obviously the symptom of a thoughtless and lazy bandaid “fix” that was only necessary because devs designed themselves into a corner to begin with.

I dont know why people are too emotionally invested to see it for what it is.

[torn depot]

its a nothingburger

[still locust]

There's not really even any "build", it falls apart the moment thrash isn't severely overtuned to deal with a threat problem they introduced by aura nerfing us

[wispy gate]

Yeah nah definitely not happening seeing how 5 guardian Druids just timed a +20 WR. . . Was nice while it lasted ig 🤷‍♂️

[outer cave]

I Will try monster energy + moon bear to stay awake

[still locust]

Honestly, I'm hopeful because bear OVERALL is very nice this expansion, and this is effectively the first design pass we've had in a LONG time

[sweet gorge]

I was honestly just wanting a threat modifier added to thrash lol.

[copper hornet]

Soon they will tear down the mighty

[torn depot]

bear has been in its best state it has been imo

[still locust]

So just gotta wait for design pass 2 coming soon in a theater near you

[half cave]

I miss ripweaving

[red knoll]

I just want a rework of the apex

[azure ibex]

Remove Wild Guardians, give us Venthyr bear split into 4 talent points as new apex, uhhhhh profit?

[rustic kestrel]

thye did so much work to create an incredible spec. Then some dumbass increased thrash damage by 200%

[torn depot]

for the past few expansions

[still locust]

We don't spec that, it's kind of shit

[still locust]

I'd rather they rework ironfur tbh

I can deal with a 150% apex the way it is

[midnight flint]

If they make EC press mangle and introduce an option to play raze I would be happy tbh.

[still locust]

Absolutely disgusting

[torn depot]

we will soon, 200% buff on sundering roar. i am a believer

[copper hornet]

What, you think the upcoming changes won't be?

[azure ibex]

teehee

[half cave]

This is what I asked for haha. Just add a 300% threat modifier to both swipe, thrash's direct damage, and moonfite direct samage. Our threat is fine once we're rolling, we just use dots at the start and it sucks

[rustic kestrel]

s2 is sundering roar tier set. Im 100% correct on this, dont @ me

[torn depot]

i believe you

[still locust]

But DOTC doesn't benefit from tear down the mighty as much, thrash is much worse so speccing into sundering roar is just not good

[still locust]

2p is bristling fur, 4p is sundering roar

[rustic kestrel]

What if they pulled thrash back, and made swipe a little better but gave it charges so you wouldnt spam it. More of like.. a slash.. brutually..

[copper hornet]

Ok I think ur thinking im talking about the talent when im not

[still locust]

And it will feel ass to press 2 dead globals for minute gains

[azure ibex]

"4pc: Your Waking Nightmare echoes cast Sundering Roar when they reach their target. Thrash damage increased by 300% during sundering roar"

[copper hornet]

I just used the talent name because puns

[half cave]

I hate bristling fur so much lol i wish they'd take it out

[still locust]

Yeah I saw the pun and built on the joke, but it missed

Unluggy

[rustic kestrel]

Love bristling fur. just needs a new spot

[torn depot]

future patch: thrash has no cooldown during sundering roar

watch this space

[still locust]

Yeah, the garbage bin

[midnight flint]

They just cannot have the 2 hero talents be polar opposites when it comes to tuning knobs anymore.

[half cave]

Maybe I wouldn't hate it so much if it wasn't on global cooldown. It feels fucking horrible to press. I would rather it be removed

[torn depot]

you know what

BUFF GORY FUR

[rustic kestrel]

delete

[torn depot]

why does that still exist

[rustic kestrel]

literally forgot about it

[torn depot]

why is it a choice node with endurance

[copper hornet]

Bears arent endurance hunters

Why is endurance even a thing

[torn depot]

ew and tnc died before gory fur

[rustic kestrel]

just be glad ew is gone

Otherwise @still locust and I could never be on equal terms again

[copper hornet]

Earthwarden provided infinite content

[still locust]

Of course we could? That's bullshit

We're equally dumb

[rustic kestrel]

TRUE

[copper hornet]

Too slow

[still locust]

At the end of the day, who the fuck cared about EW vs. TNC

Both were viable and good

[dusky wedge]

Are we going to get nerf soon?

[copper hornet]

That was posted an hour ago

[still locust]

I was just young and too attached (I wasn't young at all)

[torn depot]

i kinda miss tnc

[violet holly]

it was the best talent amirite

[rustic kestrel]

we can start an argument about it for old times sake

[still locust]

It's not the same, I'm trying to be on better behaviour

[rustic kestrel]

im not

[still locust]

And I'm in a nice streak of it

[still locust]

Man I was trying to think of something to start a fight but I genuinely don't even know what we disagree on aside from EW

Oh

I know

[rustic kestrel]

We still have disagreements from time to time

[still locust]

After the Wildfire and Memory of Ysera are actually pretty good talents for what they aim to be

There we go

[rustic kestrel]

I will not engage

[still locust]

https://tenor.com/grwVmVpKyoY.gif

[torn depot]

wildfire is ok, but i dont really see the point of ysera

ysera just feels like a shitty strike for the heart / elune favored

[still locust]

It's basically just a different flavour of elune's favored, with the appropriate power level for being a pathing node in the middle of the tree

[azure ibex]

God I miss Thorns of Iron imagine how goated it would be for nopex :)

[copper hornet]

Why did yseras gift not make it into the class tree when all the other affinity passives did

[topaz sparrow]

I doubt blizzard is in a place to refactor bear. They will make some bs thrash nerf and call it a season

[red knoll]

People acting like bear is gunna get a love tap are coping

[copper hornet]

Another 5bear 20 screenshot has hit the chat

[summer hatch]

the second has hit

[rustic kestrel]

honestly though, you could probably do this with any other 5 tanks

with good enough players

[summer hatch]

doubt

[still locust]

Almost definitely, but bear is in the unique situation that the self-healing is monstrous

[summer hatch]

while maintaing that much damage? dont think so

[still locust]

For no real effort

[summer hatch]

^

[still locust]

Like 90% overhealing of EF converts very nicely into a group without a healer

[torn depot]

EF is pretty good tbh

[still locust]

Even in that group EF is 70% overhealing

It's ridiculous

[torn depot]

it scales with mastery so it does provide more % than it seems

[still locust]

Hmmmmmge

It should only increase based on the attack power

Not double dip

[torn depot]

you get master heal off EF's heal

at least it did last i checked

[still locust]

Hmmmmmmmmmmge

I thought we had no double dippers left

[forest flume]

EW was better

your turn

[copper hornet]

I doubledip

Even triple dip sometimes

[still locust]

Better at being a bad talent

[rustic kestrel]

this art style always weirded me out

[azure ibex]

Yeah it’s not my fav

But it is five bears

[forest flume]

i should have known, the best move was to not play

[rustic kestrel]

"what if we just put weird fuckin squigglies all over the place"

also its quiet now, we can attempt this

[forest flume]

[rustic kestrel]

[red knoll]

https://tenor.com/view/ill-fucking-do-it-again-ill-do-it-again-again-goofy-gif-21090281

[forest flume]

damn it

[azure ibex]

sigh

[rustic kestrel]

[torn depot]

[rustic kestrel]

[azure ibex]

[forest flume]

[still locust]

[torpid yoke]

[red knoll]

[merry quest]

Unfortunately to protect the sanctity of bear towers I’m going to have to interrupt this one.
SOMEONE managed to post twice within 3 messages which is a clear violation of the bear tower code

[rustic kestrel]

Kitch ill fight you

[merry quest]

[rustic kestrel]

as you can see they were three SEPERATE bear towers, thus not violating code.

[torn depot]

[random wadi]

[still locust]

Hmmmmmmmmmge

[rustic kestrel]

WHAT

[still locust]

Very separate, yes

[merry quest]

The rules are very clear on this I’m afraid

[azure ibex]

Yikes bulok

[still locust]

Old man posted, forgot, posted again

[torn depot]

https://tenor.com/view/jail-no-excuse-gif-24460693

[still locust]

Too late, gulag it is

[forest flume]

yes this is a red card

[rustic kestrel]

ive been framed by discord

this is ridiculous

[forest flume]

https://klipy.com/gifs/red-card-referee--k01KRC2TJ2CWSJCVCKA7YK23X3G

[olive hare]

Bulok Asslawyer. Could sell a fridge to a polarbear.

[torn depot]

palindrome tower

[azure ibex]

This is the most upsitting thing to happen to bear ever

[merry quest]

To the cells with you

[lone flare]

why this gif so high frame rate

[merry quest]

[forest flume]

someone should take that red card gif and put a heybear emoji on the card

[rustic kestrel]

im going to time myself out by saying that one weird phrase that bans you for an hour

[torn depot]

discord shenanigans

[sweet gorge]

[lone flare]

probably silly question but - unused rerolls don't disappear, right

[torn depot]

https://tenor.com/view/rick-roll-rick-rolled-rick-astley-never-gonna-give-you-up-hd-gif-25206401

[forest flume]

holy sh

[lone flare]

excellent

I want to save this but it makes the gif selection/favourites thing lag on my phone if it's too high quality

so I've given up on it xD

i have too many gifs favourited

so if i scroll on that it freaks out

[rustic kestrel]

https://tenor.com/view/boomie-boomkin-dancing-druid-photo-gif-2397901215767459390

[azure ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1181574946321870999/1474155743987892366/bahahaha-ezgif.com-video-to-gif-converter.gif

[copper hornet]

Dementia resident

[torn depot]

i may or may not have done that foolishness a few times before

[still locust]

Oh great, new expansion version of the DH in ruby lifepools

[azure ibex]

i have so many tank death gif

[sweet gorge]

there must always be one

[still locust]

Not a death but

[forest flume]

@rustic kestrel were you proud? I knew exactly what you were thinking

[still locust]

https://tenor.com/ptfDMes6cbV.gif

[azure ibex]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/148897941883584512/1422220989739044904/getgeezled.gif

[red knoll]

Dreamgrove

20 bear lura and beloren mythic?

Before reset?

[rustic kestrel]

i was

[copper hornet]

20 bear beloren was probably doable

[red knoll]

Why does this happen why is blizzard so bad

[olive hare]

RIP asking for more baseline nerfs

[red knoll]

We are already getting more baseline nerfs

Wym

[forest flume]

i dont think its blizzard being bad there lol

[red knoll]

You think theyre actually gonna have any nuanced nerfs?

[torn depot]

🅱️aseline nerfs

[forest flume]

Bearline nerfs

[red knoll]

Using charge shouldn't kill you

X.x

[torn depot]

unbearable

[red knoll]

Why does it sync up melee

[forest flume]

whoever died there was 100% at fault

they should feel ashamed

[torn depot]

its very tempting to charge like that

but so deadly

[rustic kestrel]

its double enforcer+spell blade, they do magic damage on autos

[azure ibex]

in magisters terrace, hitting wild charge kills you instantly
shocked joe rogan noises

[toxic comet]

https://keystone.guru/route/seat-of-the-triumvirate/qRig9HS/seat-yoda/2 pull 6, our grp couldnt survive rift warden + the other pack, is it too much?

[rustic kestrel]

so it was a no ironfur straight up triple melee double magic

[copper hornet]

Just blame healer and move on

[torn depot]

i remember charging to my death on a boralus pack

the ones who had a minitankbuster

i got omega deleted lol

[rustic kestrel]

did you pull the warden away from its portal? lol

[torn depot]

through ironfur and barkskin

[olive hare]

Ngl made me insta F5 wowhead out of panic. Dont do that.

[rustic kestrel]

i refresh wowhead every 5 minutes on mondays

[forest flume]

don't need to, I already told you

9:43pm EST

[azure ibex]

why bother, im sure every guild discord you're in has a wowhead bot to yell at you

[rustic kestrel]

that shit gets muted sop fast

[red knoll]

They're always 2 mins late

[rustic kestrel]

the amount of slop wowhead puts out

[forest flume]

first channel I mute in every discord lol

yepppp

[toxic comet]

no i went to get the group first then to warden

[azure ibex]

I liked their "is there too much casual content in wow now" article from the other day. What journalism

[rustic kestrel]

the conjuerers voidcaller pulses aoe, so its a bit of extra damage, but its 100% not undoable

[copper hornet]

Simply unusable true or true

[rustic kestrel]

im a hater and agree with the article

[outer cave]

what is the fastest way to level now? im spamming dungeons as bear. 1x dungeon about 15-20 min and 3x for each level = 1 lvl per hour

[copper hornet]

There is too much hardcore content in this game

[azure ibex]

this guy HATES prophunt

[rustic kestrel]

too much dev time spread too thin

[copper hornet]

Delete m+

[tidal shale]

Do you also have always have to use barkskin or another def on pull in 18+

[copper hornet]

That'll help

[forest flume]

instead of talking here just play the game

[azure ibex]

I dont dislike casual content, but I like when the casual content works properly

[red knoll]

You act like the headlines arent written by ai

[rustic kestrel]

depends on the pull

[outer cave]

is there a faster way than 1x lvl per hour?

[copper hornet]

Yes what

[forest flume]

Do delves on t1, run dungeons until 87.5, do crafting until 88 and 2-3 bars, turn delves quest, boom 90

[topaz sparrow]

Each delve once and profession crafting will get two levels

[copper hornet]

1x an hour is very slow

[forest flume]

but instead of asking stupid questions here, keep queuing dungeons

promise you it'll level much faster

[red knoll]

Wowhead articles are also the biggest fucking snitches and get a lot of stuff that doesnt need to be fixed by blizzard fixed

[torn depot]

like thrash aggro?

[copper hornet]

These are the only wowhead articles I like tbh

They are so funny

[outer cave]

each delve i was going to save until i get to 88

[red knoll]

My guild jokes every time wowhead posts about a life hack or addon it gets fucking nerfed within the week

[forest flume]

Giving me an idea, what if we build a wowhead alternative, that isn't total crap

[torn depot]

bearhead

[red knoll]

Wowhead itself is fine? Its the fucking

Adds

[rustic kestrel]

it wont make money

[red knoll]

That make it unbearable

[forest flume]

the issue with wowhead is that their database and tools are very good

[rustic kestrel]

they kind of have to keep putting out articles to make money

[violet holly]

list of interrupt tracker addons:
-patched
-patched
-patched

[red knoll]

Okay but how long until you think blizzard bans this ex boss addon

[forest flume]

you said articles, not hot garbage pile of words

difference

[red knoll]

My favorite article was the one giving tips on how to win tic tac toe

[topaz sparrow]

You’re weaker at 88. People do them early and do t turn them in until later

[red knoll]

In the pre patch

[rustic kestrel]

seeing an entire post on the guardian druid aggro issues fucking killed me tho

[sweet gorge]

You can almost guarantee that when you see a Wowhead snitch article, a patch is coming within 72 hours

[torn depot]

ngl im surprised it took so long between that post and blizzard buffing thrash

i was expecting something like a 50% thrash buff or so after that

[rustic kestrel]

they had to take their time to cook up the absolute worse change they could

[torn depot]

but 200% buff was so funny

[violet holly]

haha 200% was funny indeed

[torn depot]

well

it's still funny judging by the drama going on

[olive hare]

That shit article. I mean it was sort of justified, but still very lackluster and lopsided. Made it sound like bear threat was completely nonexistant while reality is 30% bear threat was a little iffy and 70% pug dps are people with special needs.

[violet holly]

15% nerf this 15% nerf that because "st was too good" then bam 200% / 100% right after

[torn depot]

i enjoy the thrash buff ngl but really i just wanted it to be a bit better for aggro at start of pulls

feels a lot nicer to be able to aggro with thrash again

[red knoll]

I still get dps in 18s that just cant keep it in their pants

[torn depot]

they chose death

[violet holly]

idk there are some dps that will target the most random mob and start blasting

[red knoll]

Hell I had a healer yesterday

Skc on the mobs i moonfired

While they were walking over to us

And just insta died

[trim plaza]

Cough ret palas with their execution sentence

[torn depot]

tbh i dislike dpsing when tanks are still pulling, not even because of aggro but because it feels wasteful to try to dps while they're all over the place

[olive hare]

If they just changed thrash to be 5+sqrt capped along with that 200% buff it wouldve been just as good in terms of threat, but that nonsense build wouldve never become a thing.

[trim plaza]

When the tuning comes, they are gonna prob nerf trash, but for fun and giggles also nerf raze again by 15% just watch

[red knoll]

Yesh

It'll definitely be a big nerf

[torn depot]

thrash nerf and a buff to raze/ravage aoe portion

[rustic kestrel]

im not convinced they are going to do much of anything until 12.1

[torn depot]

one can dream

[rustic kestrel]

id like to be wrong

[topaz sparrow]

Fun for now but expecting to return to my BM

[odd pelican]

you guys are thinking too small. They’ll nerf Thrash and buff Swipe

[red knoll]

I think they'll do something at the latest by .7

[odd pelican]

and give us back Feral Faerie Fire to boot

[violet holly]

prob after the mdi stuff, before finals they do some change

might be same time as 12.1 idk

but I guess it will stay for a while like this

[rustic kestrel]

well its not beholden to mdi, they play on tourney realm

[topaz sparrow]

Interesting how few Asians play bear

It’s all Europe

[rustic kestrel]

China often has slightly different metas from na/eu

[torn depot]

[azure ibex]

I've been playing spriest a lot this tier so i've had to get used to dotting shit up during gather and fading off aggro lol

Luckily tentacle slam does like -5 damage so

[topaz sparrow]

Maybe give prot a try again after buffs and incoming bear nerf

[azure ibex]

if by prot you mean prot warrior then do it

[topaz sparrow]

Pal

[azure ibex]

:(

[olive hare]

🤮

[hollow ferry]

Waiting to see 20 stack bear mythic march

[rustic kestrel]

I really wish the puke emoji didnt look like a dude eating a cucumber dick.

[abstract inlet]

are people not using maul or swipe at all in the new m+ spec?

[azure ibex]

shlurp

[olive hare]

I mean...it fits either way doesnt it?

[sweet gorge]

I was not anticipating to read the words "cucumber dick" together today

[copper hornet]

You think about dudes eating dicks often?

[azure ibex]

[rustic kestrel]

You dont?

[exotic verge]

bear is gonna get nerfed?

[hollow ferry]

Buff

[exotic verge]

[quaint pond]

still too many monks, need more buffs

[oblique moat]

what kinda cucumbers you got where you live wtf

[violet holly]

they need to buff ST now

100% to maul raze ravage should be fine

[strange blaze]

Here is the thing they keep buffing tanks there won't be a tank shortage when everyone is playing a tank. Surely that's what blizz will do instead of nerfing us back to mid for another 2 expansions

[red knoll]

Revert all the maul changes and ravage changes and nerf apex by 50%, nerf thrash by 200%

Everything will be fine

[red knoll]

This build is not healthy

It needs to be removed

[copper hornet]

Not particularly, should I?

Im more of a roman empire kind of guy

[violet holly]

yeah they kinda did the buff in a dumb way

[strange blaze]

I mean I agree I just don't want to be over balanced to irrelevant.

[violet holly]

it was like friday end of day everyone already left the studio and the guy remembered he had a task to tune bear kind of thing

[red knoll]

Id rather be over nerfed now into being reworked or fixed with tuning later than keep letting this bullshit

Be a thing

[main solstice]

We nerfed now?

[strange blaze]

I mean it's still better than the scroll wheel iron fur build lol.

[forest flume]

bear was very viable before this "buff"

surely they will find a good middle ground

LOLOL

[rustic kestrel]

this is worse than tww lmao

[red knoll]

It was basically perfect on launch

[rustic kestrel]

now you dont even mangle

[red knoll]

Dps just need to suck it up

[lucid wagon]

Lol its actually even easier then tww

[red knoll]

Oh no the tank beat you during cds

Get over urself

Week 1 we were fine

People just flipped out over nothing burger m0 numbers

Where everything died too fast to get accurate numbers

[violet holly]

they were constantly nerfing st stuff

[red knoll]

Then they overcorrected our damage into apex

[violet holly]

moonless night etc

[red knoll]

And made the issue worse

[copper hornet]

What's the point of life if we dont mangle

[red knoll]

Me when I look at feral

[violet holly]

then suddently ok we are tired of tuning st lets make it so you press the aoe ability and nothing else

[trim plaza]

Ye and all of a sudden that shit tops ur st by a mile

[strange blaze]

I mean I think also just an overall problem with the tree it's kinda all in one way or the other like raze or all in trash.

[forest flume]

maybe we can go scuba

[violet holly]

abyss anglers is kinda bugged

[red knoll]

The tree is fine

[trim plaza]

U still get a lot of power into trash even when u talent apex

[astral ginkgo]

Give bears chomp and make it only usable when mangle is on cd

[shut jasper]

chomp is cursed so no ty

you see feral saw rwf before getting chomp, they didn't after chomp, coincidence? I think not

[violet holly]

got chomped

[south dagger]

yo are ppl going no apex for raids as well?

[forest flume]

depends what you mean by "people"

[shut jasper]

generally nope

[south dagger]

druid gamers

[shut jasper]

it's pretty bad st

[south dagger]

dotc?

[shut jasper]

both dotc and apex ec builds are fairly close for raid atm

[south dagger]

gotchu, thanks

[lament blade]

Hi im starting to gear my bear alt but i kinda dont get the gearing. Wowhead guide says its haste/vers spec but I can see on murlok that people are playing haste and then spread every stat somewhat evenly. Do I just go for haste and w/e second stat item has?

2nd question: where do i spend rolls? Myth Chimaerus seems like a nobrainer till i get gaze and weapon but where do i spend rest? nexus point for rings? then windrunners for heart of wind or skyreach for prism? give me a direction pls

[vapid forum]

The Chinese are about to get bears nerfed in record speed lol

I'm pretty sure the QA team at Blizzard is AI. I also just watched a Destro Warlock solo Vorasius

[jagged gazelle]

Pretty sure they deleted the QA team years ago

[azure ibex]

Alright which one of you is this

[vernal fog]

If they make all tanks fun and simple and powerful just imagine how many would queue

[lone flare]

not that many, because a good chunk of us would be bored out of our minds

and probably stop tanking

[harsh canopy]

What the heck is this build where you press thrash > gg moonfire pretty much at all times even in incarn?

[vapid forum]

its a cheese build that makes mobs do less damage to you, while holding aoe aggro at all times and reducing the cd of lunar beam

[cloud hinge]

Brother it has taken me far more than 2 hours

im on day 2 lol

[willow moss]

Drop it for a bit and go again it'll click. It's bullshit stuff as it's constantly, kill eyes with moonfire, kite kite kite don't stand still or repeat a movement (going back and fore) then interrupt!

I'd maybe suggest focus macro for interrupt. Other than that it's just getting comfortable with it. It was probably 5 hours all in but I locked in those 2 hours of just banging tries in to understand the fight.

Use an orb if you have to stun everything to help clear up but I think it could arguably be very slightly easier with this ec thrash build

You can spam thrash on the main dude outside of the aoe on ground, so don't drop stacks and dance around him like a stripper.

[cloud hinge]

what talent build is it? I took one from a video but maybe theres something else

[willow moss]

No point because our ec build now you get tons of lunar and moonfire and thrash so you can pump them down

[cloud hinge]

Ec build?

[fallen robin]

Any of the pinned builds for M+. I haven't tried it since the Thrash scaling change.

[cloud hinge]

Oh ok ty

[fallen robin]

Might have rotational issues too. If you post a log people can look at it.

[willow moss]

Swap and give it a go you'll likely have an easier time

[fallen robin]

I beat it on release, just go back to try it when people say it's impossible

It's 50% a knowledge check, 50% rotational skill.

[cloud hinge]

It doesnt feel impossible but it does feel like a 2 second lapse in attention is basically the end

[willow moss]

Well yea that's the challenge haha

[cloud hinge]

Does this EC build actually shift into moonkin for starfire?

[willow moss]

You can swap the talents if you want it's niche to pick up adds on big pulls

[fallen robin]

If you're dying in P1, mechanics need work. I think my laziest run I did P1 with only Moonfire damage to the boss and it took like 15 minutes.

[willow moss]

Those 2 I mean. I use on chimareus and some big pulls but not much

[topaz sparrow]

It’s difficult to gear exactly as you want. Especially with 4p and a lot of crit gear in dungeons

[fallen robin]

I always time starting P2 with Incarn

[cloud hinge]

i dont get to p2 with incarn having been off cd for like 1 minute

[willow moss]

You'd use hotw on the opener in cat for DPS

[lament blade]

4p is whatever ill just catalyze it

[fast compass]

Full raid with bears should work?

[lament blade]

just dunno even what is bear offpiece

[red knoll]

why would u use starfall in raid

wat

frenzy is just infinitely more damage

[willow moss]

Do you mean me? Just to help gather the adds mostly

on chim

[red knoll]

o.O

you're losing at least 3m damage on the boss

[tribal herald]

I did it a few days ago with standard m+ build. You don't have to go into melee for inquisitor outside interrupting drain life, just moonfire, thrash outside of range. Thrash will generally oneshot eye balls, 2-3 MF without proc will get them. Use AoE roar when eles do their cast, otherwise just thrash them down.

When an infernal is after you just constantly strafe for movement and they won't hit you. Gets a little hectic with Kruul up, but just aoe zerg him down while strafing to avoid lasers/infernals. YOu can tank 1 hit of Annihlate pretty easy, 2 with CD's and then just chain velen orbs after that to extend fight long enough.

Most of my failures were just neglecting to be aware of infernals and getting blown off in an otherwise clean run

[red knoll]

for something that doesnt matter

people should be running to you with the adds

[willow moss]

Lost more when my DPS are stupid

So I just make up for them

[red knoll]

is this on mythic?

[willow moss]

Nein

[red knoll]

Let them wipe a couple times to adds dying in front of the boss

[willow moss]

I am heroic bear

[red knoll]

thatll teach them

[willow moss]

Oh you'd think so but no

[red knoll]

we have a warrior that likes to go on the adds while we're stacking them so i just let him do it one time and it wiped the raid and then he got yelled at by the raid leader

[azure ibex]

You'd be surprised at the caliber of heroic raiders and their inability to learn, as well as their willingness to wipe on a boss over and over failing the same basic mechanic

[red knoll]

I told the raid multiple times dont hit the adds before theyre gathered at the marker

it matters a lot more in mythic where they die

fwiw

cuz of the swaps

[azure ibex]

I just run to the stack point while shitting out shadow word pains and slam tentacles when enough of the lil shits are stacked up

Easy game

Hit fade, drop aggro, life is good

[red knoll]

well

the issue is them dying before they get ther

not aggro

the adds actually do so little damage i dont bother getting aggro on them

lol

except the big one obv

[azure ibex]

i want to convince my raid lead to let us send less people down on first add set so i can actually fucking parse raaaaaa

my greed knows no bounds

[red knoll]

parsing on that fight is a joke

[copper hornet]

chimaerus?

[red knoll]

you have to actively be griefing the raid or just have the perfect setup

yes

[violet holly]

my friends raid in like an almost 30 man group up until the last boss of the tier, then they reduce the player count and leave half the raid out(or more) so they can kill the last boss and get aotc, and then they start doing weekly carries for those bad players 2-3 at a time

[copper hornet]

oh heroic chimaerus specifically

[azure ibex]

I'm talking mythic

[red knoll]

no mythic too

[copper hornet]

ah

i think we do p1 normally the first time and then just send boss

in the second p1

[azure ibex]

Yeah

[copper hornet]

only sent tank down

[leaden dock]

can you get loot in the vault from a m+ dungeon you didn't do this week?

[azure ibex]

We send our pwarr down so he can pad on some adds as we finish the boss

[azure ibex]

yes

[red knoll]

hmmm

is 15% haste enough for bdk

i crafted Loa Band

[violet holly]

m+ loot is always from every dungeon

its not like raid loot

[leaden dock]

okay, thank you.

[violet holly]

[red knoll]

any bdk knowers in chat

i dont wanna join a bdk discord

[trim plaza]

u get 10% from boneshield

[void magnet]

yes any amount of any stat is plenty

[trim plaza]

more than fine

[azure ibex]

bdk 🤮