guardian

[trim plaza]

Same, but they barked for not having enough role in dungeons so yes

[hazy mural]

what keys do u struggle routing for btw?

[olive hare]

Speaking of , the APL doesnt hit fur by default unless youve talented goag correct ?

[shut jasper]

last I checked it kept 1 fur up as long as you're being melee'd (half the time by default)

idk if the latest changes catha did made that different

[hazy mural]

I mean sims are more for weeklies to +12s or so, right?

since on higher u want like 3-4 IFs most times

[uneven flame]

isnt this APL techincally wrong

[hazy mural]

should change that E to and O

then it's right

[uneven flame]

or just swap E and B right

[hazy mural]

but then wont be BOOB

[carmine sandal]

Thrash still has a cd mate

[still locust]

It should, default it always keeps 50% uptime I think?

IIRC the conditionals are "ravage proc isn't up and boss is actively hitting"

[hazy mural]

idk... im able to thrash around without a cd irl...

[carmine sandal]

You can just add a forced ironfur line too with a set cd or something

[hazy mural]

dont even need to be a bear

[carmine sandal]

If you want to sim less rage spent on raze

[uneven flame]

thought WG resets it?

[carmine sandal]

It's true you're just a drunk these days

[olive hare]

I mean as No apex you'll have these stacks anyways, with apex builds I rarely need to go past 2 in 16 keys. Most of the time 1 is enough, at least for dotc

[uneven flame]

or am i being silly

[hazy mural]

ive been sober for like 1 week tyvm!

[still locust]

Wild guardians means it pressed incarn, during incarn you can thrash mangle thrash mangle every global

[hazy mural]

think it depends on mobs for sure... like MC, those melees are dangerous af

[uneven flame]

not what i meant

i thought there was something that reset thrash entirely

allowing for 2 casts back to back

[olive hare]

Ah ty for clarifying

[still locust]

That would be incarn, or sundering roar

[uneven flame]

incarn yes

so not WG

[still locust]

But for incarn it's technically better to use it to shift into bear from after having done cat or moonkin hotw

IIRC

[uneven flame]

yeah thats what APL shows as well

reminds me i need to hotw cat more

[still locust]

What I personally do is thrash once to establish aggro, then rake/moonkin form, lunar beam, then press my hotw+incarn macro when the lunar beam GCD is almost done

And then keep thrashing

[uneven flame]

for ST?

wouldnt just taunting be enough then do the cat shit

[trim plaza]

Tbh opening with LB in st too keeps enough threat

But ye mostly u want taunt first

[toxic comet]

Seat I feel like I get confused which packs to pull and how do to patrol before the 2nd boss. I have tanked it only few times. I should learn atleast one solid route for each dungeon and start from there. I guess I need to plug in my 2nd monitor

[hazy mural]

Seat u can get quite creative with it tbh... like my route for seat is all about efficiency in how much hp to count ratio and how safe it is for everyone... those champions are so inefficient its funny xD

[trim plaza]

I skip adept like a bad karma, the combo of adept knocking into 2x champions charging to u has to be most toxic combo for tank

[hazy mural]

this is my seat route... u really dont get to pad but it is a quick route if u chain pull responsibly

[hazy mural]

yh that patrolling adept + champions pack are nasty

each rogue or mana ray gives like x3 the count of champions and they have less hp than champions too

[still locust]

Depends, I still go catform first pull of NPX for example

To Feral Frenzy one of the 2 big guys

[carmine sandal]

You can lunar beam out of bear form?

[still locust]

Yeah

It's efficient to do it in cat (or moonkin) form

To not waste duration on shifting into form to HOTW

[rugged minnow]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding but you can just Rake/Moonkin -> hotw -> Mangle right?

Just can't do it too quickly or the game will somehow do a caster hotw and you'll hate yourself

[carmine sandal]

Yeah

You can

[rugged minnow]

Fair

[sharp gale]

if u caster hotw u might hate urself but ur healer won't

[carmine sandal]

But since it lines up with cds you dont necessarily need to mangle if you have incarn up

But you'll probably press mangle anyways after that

Or thrash

[rugged minnow]

Very rarely I'll do LB in cat form though, if I used puzzle box but LB still has like 1 sec CD

But yeah, incarn back into bear form is BiS

[carmine sandal]

Also man fucking caster HOTW

Crazy

I play at 170-190ms

And it's so annoying

[rugged minnow]

Oof yeah

[carmine sandal]

Gotta give it a solid half second after hitting rake

[granite gyro]

[rugged minnow]

I play with 2-3ms and the game still screws me sometimes (not anymore as I adjusted, but still)

Can only imagine what 170-190ms would do to my sanity

[carmine sandal]

Yeah just spell queueing sometimes you mistime things it happens

Tbh you get used to it, shapeshifting and the actionbars changing in time is the only situation in PVE that it really comes up

[rugged minnow]

I think I've turned spell queueing all the way down, but it's been years since I looked at it tbh, I should check my setting out

[carmine sandal]

I guess like positional stuff but you just learn to move early

Cuz it goes both ways, I have to be in place earlier but I can also move out earlier

Before stuff hits/starts

[toxic comet]

thx, i try to learn this

[burnt sandal]

Doesn’t that first pull sorta suck

[oblique badge]

on phys comp i change a bit because of no far kicks and warlock

[burnt sandal]

I’m surprised you don’t just do triangle since it’s already there. Or try pulling far pack right into triangle for the juicy lustical

[oblique badge]

but y

[uneven flame]

this section does not look pug-friendly lol

@grand plinth let me know when you finish your DOTC video

[trim plaza]

Why not?

[uneven flame]

i can just see someone asspulling

[willow moss]

Usually me with my bear ass

[still locust]

Surely a separate macro for /cast [stance:2] Heart of the Wild prevents any mishaps?

[red knoll]

Routes that require locks 🤮

Also that route looks ass for lust timings

[carmine sandal]

Dont give me solutions man just lemme whine

[still locust]

Sorry

[red knoll]

Stg people have the most chopped routes for sot ive ever seen

[hazy mural]

if ppl are smart, the big guy dies fast and u chain into the next pack and then get in subjugator halfway or so, and then chain into the 3rd pack...

[red knoll]

Pulling champions across the boss room instead of just taking the two side packs

Pulling 4 mobs at a time

[hazy mural]

unless ppl are really careless, it shouldnt buttpull... usually a case of their pets taking the lazy route

[red knoll]

@granite gyro do something

[sullen cove]

How long untill druids gets hit by hammer? I have the impression that brm is tankier than dudu, but does less damage? Havent tried much yet just what i heard. Also, anyone here have like a «this is the gap between top tanks»?

[still locust]

https://tenor.com/ptfDMes6cbV.gif

[still locust]

Nobody knows when we're being hit, but it is fairly unavoidable that it'll happen eventually

My personal bet is 12.0.7 at the latest

But I expect before that

[sullen cove]

Yeah that was the main question 😂 Are bear that broken compared to brm now?

[hazy mural]

this was done with pugs and ppl I hadnt played with before really and we had like 4+ mins left with some mistakes on 18 xD

[oblique badge]

no, it's not.

[granite gyro]

you cant chain the portal guys

[hazy mural]

skipping that add near boss 3 is very risky tho xD

[hazy mural]

u can... just kill em quick

[granite gyro]

if whatever reason i find a tank doing multiple packs of 3 mobs

i start pulling for them

[hazy mural]

1st one u kill quick with cds, 2nd one takes longer as ppl are spent, but by the time cds are back, u got subjugators in with the portal pack and when portal guy dies, u chain again into 3rd portal

nice to know tehre are ppl who want to be over count out there xD

[jolly latch]

can someone tell me whats the proc on the right?
i know left proc is moonfire , top is mangle but whats on the right?

[oblique badge]

4P

Galactic guardian

[brazen tinsel]

right is 4p

[trim plaza]

The things is, u want to lust second boss anyway most of the times

[earnest marsh]

The dreamgrove.gg website is not updated yet right? Because the builds are different from the pins

[merry quest]

No, I didn’t get a chance on Saturday

[red knoll]

I know

[red knoll]

Bear jumped 3 key levels in the course of a week... yes

And people who have never played the spec before this week are doing 23s on them

Yes theyre broken

[granite gyro]

Friend told me that thrash is broken or something like that

And that's why we are so tanky

[burnt sandal]

Thrash doing as much as it does gives us a pretty permanent shield that while gets eaten up by passive damage accounts for a really high HPS basically. Add that into having super high ironfur stacks since we don’t “need” to use maul but certainly can in ST and frenzied regen being really good we just have a lot of damage and self sustain

[red knoll]

Do something zimbita

[jolly latch]

ty

[burnt sandal]

Also if you take it the 80% shield talent with our health pool being gigachad from high uptime lunar beam and 5% mastery iron fur is just crazy

Hit that shit before a tank buster and be like oh gee I took zero damage

[hazy mural]

as an extra, hit Bark when u have LB running and ur matted fur gets a bigger shield too xD

same with SI

[oblique badge]

If i dont play raze/maul, we are agreed to say 4P is absolutly not needed, right ?

[hazy mural]

pretty much...

its not worth ditching it if it will cost u stuff tho

[oblique badge]

better to aim better stats

[hazy mural]

cause all stats are pretty good, haste just being better cause u feel it more

[oblique badge]

is there a cap/DR to aim for haste?

[hazy mural]

but its not worth lets say having to get another myth just so u dont have this tier piece anymore at the detriment of getting a smarter myth item

[hazy mural]

not in season one... if u wanna get super min max with it, best to just sim every item u get

like for me, I love haste, as long as I dont lose ilvl for it, I drink all the haste I can get

[oblique badge]

Okay, we are agreed then, thanks 🙂

[fallen robin]

Just sim

[burnt sandal]

Be sure to keep your shit around tho. Likely that if:when they make changes you are gonna want your 4pc.

I know that sounds obvious. But I play with stupid fucking people

[night field]

i vendored that shit

ur weak if u need 4set

[hazy mural]

yh, if u care about every .01 pct, sim for sure... but sims not been too crazy relevant since borrowed power

they just give u the last eek of power

I remember corruption days... the sims were crazy powerful

[burnt sandal]

I feel like even full beyblade spec I still toss a maul or two in pure ST when I have the bonus up

So right there I’ll keep my 4pc

It makes me feel like I’m playing the game still during bosses

[granite gyro]

Do what

[hazy mural]

u tried KB?

[fallen robin]

People just believe too much from DPS setups that they must stack a stat to a certain number. But the best stat is Agi, not secondary.

[hazy mural]

atm ive graduated from no mangle to full mangle xD

[burnt sandal]

Yea KB is great. Brybears raze EC build is great. There is all sorts of shit you can do if you wanna have a little more fun

[hazy mural]

the 10-15 pct loss of LB uptime is sad tho

I miss my crazy uptimes of LB

[still locust]

I think you're thinking about stats the wrong way

The specs that actively care about diminishing returns or "caps" on stats are very rare

[hazy mural]

jeez... that uptime on LB... what is Andy on xD

23 MT

hmm weird... so the uptime is higher in casts but in the dmage side it is lower

[still locust]

Well, duh?

To get higher uptime you stack haste, meaning you drop mastery/crit for it

[hazy mural]

guessing it splits the LBs cause of the ST vs aoe versions?

[still locust]

Oh

You mean uptime specifically being different

Not that it does less damage even with higher uptime

Uptime in buffs is probably the buff on you

[hazy mural]

oooh good shout

[still locust]

Uptime in damage is probably the debuff you put on a target when you cast it

So if you cast it and the mob dies, you get lower uptime

[hazy mural]

same as my cpm version

yh same with Andy's as well

[still locust]

If you check debuffs -> applied by player -> lunar beam

Then you should see some shorter ones from when the mob dies (or somehow cleanses the debuff)

[hazy mural]

since the buff is mostly what matters, thats good then

makes sense since the mob that it was on might die so technically the uptime should be lower on the dot to the person the LB went on

still not used to new LB

back in my day everything revolved around us, not the mobs

[red knoll]

You should be pressing maul. Period

[brave cedar]

do you really use no mangle in aoe and just alternate trash and moonfire, even without gg proc? idk if the wowhead rotational page is up to date with this build even tho it is chosen as a m+ default

[red knoll]

Even without kb youre gaining dps in st

[hazy mural]

it really is down to u... weaving in mangles get u mroe rage for more IFs... if u like Raze/Maul, those IFs can becomes some Maul/Razes too

[shut jasper]

without kb maul st is only really worth with 4p proc up

[hazy mural]

but all 3 versions work very well

[shut jasper]

it's kinda sad

[brave cedar]

okay, thank you

[hazy mural]

yh, can also change talents to suit ur style more

[red knoll]

Yes but theyre saying delete 4 set

Which is just objectively wrong

[hazy mural]

like what mr meme said, KB is needed if u like maul/raze

[still locust]

It's not "needed" but it's one helluva boost to it

[hazy mural]

if u dont like maul/raze but like mangle, then u take moonless night instead of sundering roar

[shut jasper]

but yeah dropping 4p is pointless because secondaries are so close for bear

[teal moat]

hey guys, new to guardian, and i have bis gear for resto which is haste mastery, where can i sim to check stuff out

[still locust]

raidbots

[hazy mural]

good news!

[teal moat]

do i sim like im simming for dps ?

[still locust]

All 4 secondary stats are good defensively for bear, so you just sim offensively like you would a dps spec

[stone lintel]

But why is noone pressing it on high-key logs?

[hazy mural]

u will be fine with that gear! just need a change of wep and trinkets

[still locust]

Who knows

[red knoll]

Because theyre lazy

And dont know how to play bear

[stone lintel]

true lol

[still locust]

Yes, see my previous message

[teal moat]

yeah i have myth gaze and heart

[red knoll]

Cuz you dont need to know how to play bear rn to play it

In high keys

[teal moat]

will do brother ty

[stone lintel]

you talking about those rerollers aren't you :)

[red knoll]

Which is why it needs a nerf

[hazy mural]

very good trinkets too

especially if ur on nopex

[teal moat]

sry to ask but whats nopex

[still locust]

no-apex

[hazy mural]

since they like non on use trinkets better than on use once since most of ur damage isnt tied to a short time every 2 mins

[teal moat]

oh

[still locust]

Idk why people call it nopex and save one whole letter lmao

[teal moat]

yeah i picked the one from wowhead

for talents

[hazy mural]

fine... nosex...

[noble ledge]

Same difference

[hazy mural]

one feels worse tho

[noble ledge]

Yeah.. nopex

[hazy mural]

[still locust]

Nothing feels worse than pressing sundering roar

[random cloak]

https://tenor.com/view/sad-upset-violin-sponge-bob-mr-crab-gif-3530280

[still locust]

Sundering Roar somehow makes Bristling Fur feel like a fun button

Very impressive

[hazy mural]

its just joyless...

I dont go OH GOODY! my SR is back

[red knoll]

I love 1 minute thrash

Wym

[carmine sandal]

You know I've always rated Bristling Fur

[still locust]

It's fine for what it's designed for, they just don't design encounters anymore where it's good

[hazy mural]

dont think I'ved used it ever since I tried out Bear

[carmine sandal]

Shame it competes with Reinforced Fur

[still locust]

It was HILARIOUSLY good on something like Argus in Legion

Where you took tankbusters for like 20 seconds in a row

[red knoll]

Its good on vorasius

[still locust]

"good"

[carmine sandal]

When it competed with Brambles I used it sometimes as DOTC to get a Ravage off on pull easier

[hazy mural]

forgot it even existed xD

[red knoll]

Have you guys seen the people running nopex in raid

Sigh

[carmine sandal]

They should bake those 2 into one another
Bristling Roar, big yell, reset Thrash, generate extra rage for 8s

[shut jasper]

I remember face and bulok the fans of tww bristling fur

[sick sable]

What do i craft for m+ only bear

seeing people craft diff shit

[hazy mural]

weirdos who liked DOTC before it was really good

[shut jasper]

make bristling off the global and scale off of pre mitigation damage

tyvm

[hazy mural]

some ppl like gamba too much

[red knoll]

Thats cuz you should craft to cover what you didnt get

[teal moat]

do we actually use maul ?

[red knoll]

You should yes

[hazy mural]

how dare they not like pew pew mode?

[hazy mural]

u can if u want

[shut jasper]

with no talents buffing it you gain dps using it when you have the 4p buff up

[hazy mural]

its not mandatory

[shut jasper]

with kb it's a decent gain

[carmine sandal]

[shut jasper]

dotc was nice s3

[red knoll]

Thats because dotc is just better

[shut jasper]

before it was too cope

[red knoll]

Fuck ec

[hazy mural]

I remember Gnome using DOTC in S1

and doing well on it

and I was like WHO TF is this guy!?

[shut jasper]

s1 dotc was so bad

they buffed it both s2 and then again s3

[red knoll]

Get ur moonkin ass shit out of my spec

[hazy mural]

WEIRDOS!

[carmine sandal]

DOTC before Mangle heal didnt feel very nice

But after big Mangle heal, love it

[shut jasper]

wasn't strike for the heart like

1% s1

[trim plaza]

Remember when ravage was called "Massive attack" in beta of tww, ye i do and that should have stayed

[hazy mural]

yh but ravage is so sexual... I love it

[shut jasper]

[hazy mural]

dont u dare huh me!

I've seen much worse from u and the others

I still remember Chris' Tits!

[rustic kestrel]

yes it was horrible

[hazy mural]

remember how gamba it also was?

[shut jasper]

everyone is still chris

[hazy mural]

anyone Chris' nether regions yet?

[noble ledge]

Ravage is very snappy
Satisfying

Snapping turtle?

[stoic minnow]

Hey which dungeon would be best to bonus roll for a fresh Guardian?

[merry quest]

Spire

[red knoll]

Bones roll 💀

[trim plaza]

Lol

[still locust]

Outlaw rogue spotted

[red knoll]

Ravage was the most satisfying button to press

Was

They took all joy out of the spec

[noble ledge]

Beloren

[red knoll]

Sigh

[hazy mural]

so what ur saying is u need zandalari bear form?

[noble ledge]

Pretty please

[hazy mural]

sounds like I need to lvl my Zandalari bear...

only 5 bears atm

and only 3 max lvl I think

[night field]

Dwarf bear when

[stoic minnow]

xD

[red knoll]

No

Please stop advocating for gross human druids

Kt is already bad enough

[hazy mural]

xD

[red knoll]

I have 9 druids at 80+ i think

[vague sage]

I hope you like toes. And also tusks sticking out of everything

[trim plaza]

And into jail u go

[hazy mural]

thats my life

[red knoll]

Dude dwarfs are so gross

And so are humans

[trim plaza]

The moment i see goblin/gnome/dwarfes can be druid im uninstalling

[still locust]

https://tenor.com/view/touching-grass-touch-gif-21219969

[rustic kestrel]

Wildhammer Dwarf druids actually makes quite a bit of sense and isn't really a lore leap

[hazy mural]

I would give ur soul for gobbo druid

[red knoll]

7 of them took like an hour in remix

[trim plaza]

But why?

[red knoll]

Why not

[trim plaza]

I mean

[red knoll]

Theyre easy to level

[trim plaza]

Ye

But do play then ever? Prob not and just dusting in the corner

[red knoll]

I only had 4 before remix

[trim plaza]

So that leveling was absolute useless

[red knoll]

And yeah I do to farm druid forms

And raids

And holiday bosses

[trim plaza]

Brother, u dont need 9 druids ti farm forms

[red knoll]

You dont know my luck

[trim plaza]

I guess

[red knoll]

900 kills to get alysrazor mount

A 3% drop

[trim plaza]

Well thats a skill ngl

[oblique badge]

You dont HAVE TO play maul/raze. Thats a no for me.

[red knoll]

Then play bad idc

[oblique badge]

If you play the talent, then yes you're right

[red knoll]

No

If you play properly its a gain

Even without talents

[oblique badge]

When you have a 4P proc ?

[red knoll]

Yes, but also its not a loss to pres without

In st

[oblique badge]

Moonfire reduce ur LB, so i'm not really agree with you

[red knoll]

Okay man the math disagrees with you continue to play bad

Thats on you

[shut jasper]

it's a minor loss to press it whenever available

without kb

[oblique badge]

Tell me you're top1 world

[red knoll]

Are you?

Top 1 world also doesnt know how to play bear fwiw

Thats how stupid this spec is rn

[oblique badge]

No, but i'm not that arrogant

[shadow grove]

hi folks, I was watching a video and wasn't sure why ilvl was prioritized over tier sets - does anyone know why
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APcUKfXXRzQ&t=1536s

[oblique badge]

So at least, if you are that arrogant, please, be on top world

[red knoll]

Lmao

Continue to play bad like i said

Enhoy

[oblique badge]

I will, /kiss.

[rustic kestrel]

because the 4set buffs maul, and the slop build doesnt maul

[red knoll]

Because Andy doesnt actually know how to play bear, just plays the dumb build becauseits good enough to do world first keys with

[hazy mural]

just watched that bit and what hes saying is they want better stats than the 4 piece ability, dont think they saying lose ilvl for the stats

[rustic kestrel]

andy was playing bear and was a top ranked bear before slop build became good btw

[red knoll]

Was he

[rustic kestrel]

yes

[red knoll]

I didnt see him on ther

[shut jasper]

he killed l'ura at r5 or 6 as bear

btw

[red knoll]

Why isnt he pressing the buttons properly

[shut jasper]

because this build is more efficient for high keys

[red knoll]

Raid is completely irrelevant to the convo

[rustic kestrel]

At some point we have to be realistic

[red knoll]

But thats fine

[trim plaza]

Ye andy was there beforr buffs

[red knoll]

Okay

I didnt see him before now

[trim plaza]

And andy is actually a good player

[red knoll]

And his tag is brew

I know hes a good player

[rustic kestrel]

its annoying that nopex and these stupid rotations exist, but we cant ignore whats happening and say its bad

[shut jasper]

I get not liking this build but not realizing it's strengths for WR level keys is just pure stupidity

[rustic kestrel]

Because it clearly isnt

[red knoll]

I think you would gain more dps by just following the sims

But its just easier not to

[oblique badge]

Most of tank players are not playing one class, but all of them
Being named Andybrew dont mean you can't play an other class/spec properly..

[shut jasper]

turns out tank dps isn't what makes or breaks a 22 or a 23

[noble ledge]

wow wow

[red knoll]

Okay but you shouldn't just not play properly cuz its easier and available to do so

Idk

[hazy mural]

ppl get confused as to why im a main tank called Healsforcash

[noble ledge]

If they brush their tusks and teeth they're settled

[red knoll]

I think its bad form to say you shouldn't press maul or mangle

And drop 4 set

[shadow grove]

@rustic kestrel @hazy mural ahh i see, thank you!

[noble ledge]

Turtles have very sensitive shell too, like being brushed 🐢🪥

Is bone after all

Whatever our nails are, the word

[shut jasper]

it's not just easier, it's better for higher keys

[hazy mural]

[red knoll]

How is less funnel better for higher keys

[vague sage]

Hoooly look at the detail on that bear thing

[shut jasper]

because funnel barely matters in the season where every spec does their full st while aoe'ing

[hazy mural]

look at it in all its 240p glory!

[copper junco]

You can’t play dotc in a +23

[shut jasper]

and self sustain while maining large pulls is better

hell you were saying the triple pull on skyreach was troll on a fucking 17

[marble thunder]

sometimes i think what a tank said when he died in a key

[noble ledge]

Bones with keratine scutes *

[oblique badge]

I didn't say we absolutely had to drop the 4P bonus and stop pressing Maul; I said it’s not mandatory right now and isn't a DPS loss to do so, given the current state of the class.

The DPS gain from a Maul proc isn't worth the LB CDR ; for me.

[marble thunder]

"bluetooth attack"

[shut jasper]

when it's a default pull even a higher levels

[noble ledge]

🌺

[red knoll]

For pugs it is

[copper junco]

No

[rustic kestrel]

this is doubtful

[red knoll]

Yeah

[rustic kestrel]

22s were being done as dotc before the changes, and dotc also got stronger

[red knoll]

I heavily disagree with not being able to time the same key as dotc

Its just easier to play ec

[hazy mural]

I think u can... u just need everyone to be on their game... just like how u can play nopex in 23, but u need everyone to be on their game

[red knoll]

I dont think you need to be on your game to play ec

[copper junco]

Maybe maybe not

[teal moat]

so archon shows haste mastery for main stat and wowhead shows haste vers whatyou think boys

[red knoll]

Spec quite literally as advertised plays itself

[copper junco]

Sim it

[marble thunder]

simming'

[trim plaza]

I can stand not mauling if u really dont like it with no apex what i dont stand is spamming mf instead of throwing mangle

[hazy mural]

tbh if ur that invested in the nuances of the stats, then yh u need to sim every gear u get

only way to be sure to get the sliver of dps increase ur looking for

[burnt shore]

It seems to me that the talent trees are finally working as stated; that we can make choices in the tree to suit how we wish to play.

[teal moat]

its cz i have full bis as resto and its all almost haste mastery, so wondering if i should recraft etc

[copper junco]

😂

[hazy mural]

u get more LB uptime

[red knoll]

Sorry but autopilot braindead builds should not be as strong as well piloted specs

[hazy mural]

u can do 23s atm with full haste mastery if u had the skills for it

[copper junco]

If u plan on doing 19-20s yes

[trim plaza]

Ye, but mangle gives u life pressing it

[hazy mural]

same with crit mastery, crit vers etc

[oblique badge]

MF reduce your cooldown of LB, mangle more rage management for IF

[still locust]

Don't bother

Stats don't matter

[teal moat]

got 2 % vers ;p

[copper junco]

Else just grab vers flask

[still locust]

I have 0%

[copper junco]

And you chilling

[teal moat]

32% haste and 23 mastery no buffs

[shut jasper]

moonfire just is more damage at all target counts so it makes sense to only mangle as you need rage

[still locust]

Vers is not important at all

[copper junco]

I think I have 8% vers

[shut jasper]

*without soft

[trim plaza]

Tbh i just dont care about minor dmg increases

[still locust]

It's not

[red knoll]

If you think that its okay for 1 button spec to be as viable and strong as specs that require actual thinking you need to get your head checked

[oblique badge]

if you dont need more rage, just press moonfire.

[teal moat]

i think vers is abit overated since u need a shit ton to make it matter

[hazy mural]

more LB uptime means more mastery and similar dam too

[still locust]

Nothing confusing about that statement imI hope

[shut jasper]

that's the thing, I don't think it's minor on aoe

[teal moat]

my Rsham is full crit vers almost bis and i have 6%

[trim plaza]

Spamming moonfire is THE most boring asss gameplay

[still locust]

It's just not even our best defensive stat

[copper junco]

Yea bro nerf mw, nerf Aug, nerf guardian, nerf bm, nerf fire, nerf frost

[burnt shore]

Thankfully, yours isn't the only opinion and others are allowed to have theirs, too. If my class is going to be "broken" (and I use that term loosely) then I'd prefer it to be on the side of more powerful and easier than on the side of nerfed into oblivion.

[still locust]

All 4 stats are good, but vers is in the rear end atm

[shut jasper]

on st it's w.e but on multitarget mf spam is a decent gain over regular rotation for that build

[hazy mural]

like they are all so close it costs more to think about than just playing which style u want

[teal moat]

i see i see

[oblique badge]

There is litt. 3 good builds on druid actually, you can take an other one hehe

[trim plaza]

Also to note i dont take sundering ever, ill take either moonless night or SotF from talents

[still locust]

"For no reason" bro what?

[hazy mural]

hmmm should I run FOM?

[still locust]

Mastery is a great stat offensively and defensively

[copper junco]

Need to have ppls rio and mythic progression on roles to see if ragebait or not 😂

[forest flume]

9:43pm est tonight, bear nerfs announced, 100% happening

[red knoll]

Hopefully blizzard listens to people who actually want to play the game and not afk simulator.

[trim plaza]

Ye but if i play nopex, i still wont just spam mf and still doing crazy dmg so yes its not that big of a deal

[marble thunder]

9:45

[hazy mural]

if it happens, im coming to find u

[still locust]

What makes vers good in your mind?

[copper junco]

Where announced ?

[still locust]

Yeah and mastery is fine for that

[marble thunder]

already calling blizzard to get it nerfed

[copper junco]

As long as u have a lot of haste the other 3 stats are very similar

[still locust]

All 4 stats good why care about recrafting gear

[red knoll]

I wasnt aware fire was performing at the highest key levels? And aug is not 1 button neither are any of the other specs mentioned other than guardian. Mw does need to be reworked

[copper junco]

Aug is one button

[red knoll]

Its not

[copper junco]

Fire maybe not I just made a list

[marble thunder]

its not lol

[copper junco]

Currently played aug for entirety of this tier in raid and resil 19, it is very close to being 1 button dps wise

[marble thunder]

aug is incredibly strong but its not 1 button or even close to it

[copper junco]

I don’t play it anymore but it it is very simple

[red knoll]

Saying aug is 1 button is incredible cope

[queen aspen]

why these guys so mad over one button specs while 90% of the specs are 3~4 button specs wtf

[shut jasper]

most of your presses are one button but you can't act like the other buttons aren't very impactful

[copper junco]

Aug dont press eruption 88% of the time ?

[burnt sandal]

ITS RUINING THE IMMERSION

BEARS DONT HAVE FINGERS

[hazy mural]

Yh well my uncle's ex wife's son in law's father works at blizzard

[marble thunder]

i mean do you do eruption outside of EM

[marble thunder]

nuh uh :3

[copper junco]

Nah LF

But u barely drop EM

[still locust]

If aug was 1 button you wouldn't cast your empower spells

[burnt sandal]

For me to properly play my spec I should have to cover myself in honey whilst foraging in the woods

[still locust]

So ye like

Not 1 button spec

[copper junco]

I mean aug losses 5% dps doing one button rotation, tell me again why spec is not a 1-3 button spec like guardian

only reason ppl suck at aug is casts per min not rotation

[still locust]

Lmao what a number

[red knoll]

Lol

[still locust]

Yeah just go do OBR in a key, see how you do

Bombardement spreading not important I guess

[red knoll]

You can literally macro every ability needed and do 23s as evidenced as guardian

[copper junco]

U can legit do that with one button rotation

[red knoll]

Name one other spec that can do that

[burnt shore]

Wasn't one of the goals of the pruning for this expansion to make classes easier to play? It looks like they succeeded at that.

[hazy mural]

if that was true, everyone would be great at aug

[queen aspen]

whatever bear design is shit but don't fight each other for the shitty design

[copper junco]

No because ppl cancel casts movement a lot

[hazy mural]

its like ppl saying dev dh is easy

yet most dev dh suck xD

[steel vault]

Should I use crests to craft 2x285 pieces, or must max out myth gear? Are the embelishments worth the slight lower ilvel?

[copper junco]

Dev dh and Aug not the same stop speaking to me, devour 200 times harder

[marble thunder]

what

[red knoll]

The goal was not to take the nuance completely out of every spec and make it one button. If you think its intentional to not press 3 of our core abilities at the highest level youre coping hard .

[hazy mural]

sure

[still locust]

Lmao

Raw copium in this chat today I see

[hazy mural]

that can easily be arranged

[red knoll]

Im this close to blocking 90% of chat

Saying we wont be nerfed is heavy cope

[still locust]

Fotm always brings out the best of the playerbase

[copper junco]

ppl cant say aug is hard

[burnt shore]

I don't play a no apex build since I'm primarily raiding. If you don't like it, you don't have to play it either. We have choices.

[half cave]

I feel like every other patch we see that EC "sims higher" in raids ...But then all the top logs are still always Dotc.

Is EC just simbait for raiding?

[still locust]

Nope, it's not

Both are viable in raid

[steel vault]

which 3? This did add moonfire back in right? Earlier this patch, we didn't press moonfire, now we don't press mangle but do press moonfire?

[shut jasper]

don't think that's true past st, because you're losing on proper bombardment usage

[half cave]

Is dotc still better tho?

[red knoll]

Mangle maul and apex

[queen aspen]

its not the numbers of buttons that makes the class design suck, its the raw fact that the tier set, apex talents, and the intended design in the start of the expac failed so much that none of that matters anymore

[still locust]

For bosses with burst portions, yeah

[shut jasper]

dotc st is very close and less rng than ec convoke

[copper junco]

maybe maybe not

[still locust]

Even EC incarn is pretty good in raid

[shut jasper]

yeah

[half cave]

That's what i expected. I plan on playing EC only on pallycouncil for the big thrash cleave

[shut jasper]

also all top voracious logs are pre nerf

[trim plaza]

Consume consume consume consume consume consume void rayyyyy consume consume consume consume, ye sure bro

[merry quest]

This still guardian we’re talking about?

[still locust]

Design of all 3 was fine, they just randomly buffed apex to 300% and aura nerfed everything by 20%

Which lead to the threat issues

[shut jasper]

I thought some were post but the 6th may cn log is pre-reset

[copper junco]

lmfao, yea ok u never played devour

[shut jasper]

(cn reset is on thurs)

[red knoll]

"I played bear for 6 days and I know better because youtuber said so"

Is my favorite theme of the week

[forest flume]

its ok all will be fixed tonight, the fotm rerollers will go back to brew

[peak lagoon]

u missed the collapsing star a random side pack part and then yeah 👍 pmuch dh

[hazy mural]

[shut jasper]

devourer somehow has even less nuance than aug it's just fucking fast

[red knoll]

Devourer has a lot of nuance tbf

Its low button count but tons of nuance

Actually very well designed just tuned horribly

[trim plaza]

Ye but like saying devourer is harder than aug is the biggest cope i have seen today

[muted pulsar]

top logs post patch are mostly if not all EC

[red knoll]

Or every fight is designed for them this season

[burnt sandal]

For devourer to do well you almost have the play the entire group around it in M+

[red knoll]

This is just infatuation

[burnt sandal]

Anytime you drag any pack to something else they are just getting FUCKED by combat

[half cave]

Oh really? Doing the convoke build?

[red knoll]

Not factual

[copper junco]

crazy stuff

[muted pulsar]

nah incarn

[trim plaza]

And i have not seen a single good devourer yet in my 19's

[copper junco]

aug u just keep up EM, and dupe and spam pres without targeting

[shut jasper]

tbf that's the same for aug, if you don't perma chain aug cries

[trim plaza]

Atleast they use their utility

[shut jasper]

gotta get those double dupes

[queen aspen]

is there a way to see the top logs after a certain period of time in wlogs?

[muted pulsar]

? EC sims better and performs better in raid nothing crazy to see

[burnt sandal]

I had like one mob leftover from a pack first boss of seat and was like oh I’ll just drag this to the first rift guy

[half cave]

Thank God. I hate convoke lol. Or rather, i hate base berserk 3 min cd.

So top logs are incarn + redmoon + apex ec? Normal stuff?

[burnt sandal]

And my DH started screeching

[burnt shore]

I just like the idea of playing what you like. I have mained a druid tank for most of the game, but my primary alt is a mage. I know that frost is the "top spec" right now, but I have almost always played arcane or fire. Right now? I'm playing fire because the crit chain is just more fun for me and a good challenge to optimize. I don't like chasing the FOTM, but everyone pays their own sub to play how they want.

[red knoll]

Its slightly ahead but saying theyre every top log is false

[still locust]

I mean even with convoke you would normally pick up elune's guidance, and it still gives CDR even to berserk

[queen aspen]

thanks a lot

[hazy mural]

ur too quick

[shut jasper]

EG giving cdr to berserk is so weird

[red knoll]

Playing what you like is fine, but not all playstyles should be as high performing.

[muted pulsar]

literally just open WCL mate

[half cave]

I thought the "max damage" build in the pins is covoke without EG

[still locust]

Technically max damage, but depends 100% on expected killtime

I keep calling it elune's guidance, it's ursoc's guidance

But yeah

If UG gives you +1 incarn, it's better

[red knoll]

Advocating for braindead rotations to be as good as the highest skill ceiling playstyles is just... no?

[still locust]

I personally advocate for always being UG

[half cave]

Ya. Well I'm glad to hear incarn is good and most top logs are running it. I like incarn.

[still locust]

Because kill times fluctuate, and lining up hotw + incarn every 2 minutes is just simpler

[half cave]

Same. I don't like trying to do low fight duration parsebait builds

[muted pulsar]

1st boss: top 15 is 14 EC and the DotC is china pre nerf
2nd boss: 11/15 with 2 china/KR logs
3rd boss: 12/15 with 2 CN/KR logs
cba looking at more

[still locust]

It's not really parsebait build in that sense

[still locust]

Is this overall damage or boss damage?

[muted pulsar]

overall

[still locust]

Because do you know what those 3 bosses have in common?

[red knoll]

Lol

[half cave]

Nice. Mostly incarn or convoke?

[red knoll]

Lmao

[still locust]

They all have lots of adds you can giga thrash pad on

Which is useless

[queen aspen]

incarn

100%

[burnt shore]

I have been raiding since the recent changes with an EC build + apex + convoke. Mostly (there are some bosses where DoTC is just better). It's been kind of fun actually pressing convoke again, although I'm not entirely sure it's optimal.

[trim plaza]

Its more than fine

[rustic kestrel]

I still have a rank 13 Vorasius log as convoke EC when I was 280 ilevel, and im washed

[outer cave]

ive been levelling bear because its the best and have been falling asleep as moon bear. how to fix

[muted pulsar]

there's literally just as many EC if you look at boss damage

just open the damn website

ffs

[upbeat fjord]

dont fotm reroll and enjoy playing the game

[outer cave]

i literally lost conscience pressing thrash moonfire

[muted pulsar]

all incarn

[still locust]

How long have you been playing bear, out of curiosity

Because like

[merry quest]

Did you steal the old ladies groceries?

[still locust]

There are explanations for why EC parses the highest

And it's not just "it's better"

Flashing claws quite literally has a chance to x6 the damage on your thrash every time you press it

[forest flume]

big pad -> is better, obviously

[still locust]

Even on bosses

DOTC used to be the proc spec

But EC is more proc-based atm

To my knowledge

[muted pulsar]

even if EC is more rng the average is still higher than dotc

[still locust]

Both are good, both are viable

[upbeat fjord]

flashing claws waking nightmare is gamble bear but god damn when u hit the odds it feels good

[queen aspen]

Maybe lucky flashing claws on certain dps windows like saladbars are better than DotC ravaging?

[burnt shore]

I will admit, I miss the last expansion catweaving DoTC. Now that was fun.

[red knoll]

WN is kinda troll

In raid

[still locust]

In raid yeah

But anyway

[muted pulsar]

on lura p1 im doing 95-115k depending on pulls as DotC, 100-130k as EC

[still locust]

Based on the sims I did start of reset, dotc and ec (both incarn) perform very similarly

[still locust]

Okay

[queen aspen]

And for the algethar box - is it still good on EC raid builds?

[red knoll]

On the phase with add pad ur doing more as the add pad spec?

Weird

[muted pulsar]

yeah DotC doesn't have the perfect profile for lura padding

[trim plaza]

If u play apex puzzle is really good

[red knoll]

Dotc does a lot of boss damage

[olive hare]

Not exactly pad adds, but okay

[shut jasper]

I'm not 100% sold on this for st, ravage during incarn is still a big rng swing, can't check atm but will later

[queen aspen]

hmm so if you roll raze + EC in raids, is there a prio list for the rotation?

do I need to track the tier set buffs?

[lament dock]

This whole conversation feels like Fury Warrior during Broodtwister.

Like, yes your damage is going to look super high when you're an AoE build whose CDs line up with the big add spawns. SHOCKING INFO. Now lets check his damage to boss in p1 with both builds

[still locust]

Thrash highest prio, otherwise same as usual

Maul at 60, mangle on CD

[red knoll]

Brood is a weird one

[half cave]

So it sounds to me like for raid:

• apex, incarn, kb maul build either way
• anytime there is add cleave, EC is going to be better than DOTC

What about pure single target boss damage? Is DOTC still better? Or is EC better at that still

[red knoll]

Cuz you needed people on that fight who's entire job was to kill adds

Or you just wiped

The adds on lura will die if gripped

[muted pulsar]

77k average only on lura in p1 4days ago as dotc, 85k average as EC yday @lament dock

[still locust]

Basically, but it depends on fight timings

[lament dock]

Yeah, at least with Brood the adds dying was important but lord it was tiring watching Blizz nerf a spec just because they built a "white room perfect" fight for them and then got made they were doing big numby

[still locust]

DOTC can be stronger if you get to apex during the cleave portion

[red knoll]

Sounds like you do better as ec? Doesnt mean ec is significantly ahead

[lament dock]

Id love to see those logs

[marble thunder]

i hate how good grip is

[nocturne sphinx]

How do I get rid of the built in gore aura? It's super annoying when playing no apex in keys.

[lament dock]

Because that doesn't make any sense unless you're severely misplaying DOTC

[red knoll]

I hate that everyone needs 2

[trim plaza]

Well thats the only thing dk has

[red knoll]

Every fight that needs grip needs 2 dks

[lament dock]

#gripisaraidbuff

[still locust]

You press mangle

[red knoll]

Which is just dumb

[muted pulsar]

thursday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/46MZ8gbGBP17tRcq?fight=3.10.11.12.21.23.24.25.34.42.45&type=damage-done&phase=1&target=21
yesterday https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KMmWyVdDq4bFQwCY?fight=11.13.14.16.18.21.22.26.29.31.37.38.39.42.44&phase=1&type=damage-done&target=18
possible i wasn't pressing enough thrash as dotc

[marble thunder]

Our tank had to reroll blood just for us to kill lura

Pure ass

[red knoll]

Only raid buff that requires 2

[rustic kestrel]

settings > spell alert opactiy > 0

[red knoll]

Mythic or heroic

[nocturne sphinx]

Sure.. which is why it hasnt been a problem for decades.. But for this build pressing no mangle, it just gets in the way.

[marble thunder]

Hero, keep in mind we had 0 dps dks

[red knoll]

We did heroic with just 2 dps dks

[half cave]

Ahh gotcha. So dotc burst cleave still strong then if you can save WG for adds without losing cd uptime.

What about pure st? Like on crown I'm never on adds so I'm always on either boss or simulacrum full ST

[vague sage]

They decided that dks raid buff was grip, so they forever design fights around it now

[red knoll]

I see

Okay but raid buffs are 1 of that class

[still locust]

No, you misunderstand me

[red knoll]

Dont make 2 dks required

[still locust]

As DOTC you want to pop WiGu inside incarn to maximize chance of 2x ravage for apex

[still locust]

Yeah just press mangle, it's almost always a good choice anyway

[trim plaza]

^

[still locust]

If nothing else, it's more average IF stack count uptime

[red knoll]

Also pbox is better for dotc than it is for ec

So if not running pbox ec will probably perform better

[marble thunder]

i miss remix's class buff scrolls

[still locust]

Okay so the problem here is

Whatever happened here

[lusty forum]

Used to be in the main game too 😛

[marble thunder]

when can we get death grip scrolls

[queen aspen]

gorefiend's totem

gorefiend's roar

[lusty forum]

it'd only grip them 3/5s of the way to you

[queen aspen]

gorefiend's magic

when

[muted pulsar]

wdym

[still locust]

Also just in general like

I don't think these logs are comparable

I know gore exists but like

For DOTC

For EC

That is a (potential) significant increase in Red moon uptime

Or just rage generated in general

[red knoll]

Ah the classic bagging to make dotc look worse

[muted pulsar]

bro why are you comparing casts LMAO

i have higher cpm as dotc

of mangle

[marble thunder]

casts give damage no ?

https://tenor.com/view/cat-write-scribble-sketch-draw-gif-17181052902092737226

[still locust]

Because rage is funnily enough a very important factor in doing damage

[muted pulsar]

dotc

ec

conveniently forgot the cpm number

when the number of pulls isn't the same at all

[uneven flame]

oh hey we talking about dotc again?

[narrow coral]

Hello are there any build pins on this server ? Can’t seem to find any :/

[uneven flame]

TL;DR:

DoTC is fun and engaging gameplay, allowing you to play around procs and pressing more than 2 buttons

[violet holly]

if you check the pins in this channel there is a link to builds

[muted pulsar]

🤡

as i said if there's a mistake it would probably be that i don't press thrash enough as dotc but i don't think thrash is above 2 charges mangle still after the buffs ? not even 1 charge

[shut jasper]

I can't not mentally read the caption of "the evil twink will pay" or w.e it is when seeing this gif

[muted pulsar]

doubt its a mangle issue

[marble thunder]

[uneven flame]

wdym by this idk what i just read

not poking at you or anything ive played dotc for 1 evening max lol

[burnt shore]

This may be an unpopular opinion but, from what I've seen so far since the recent updates, numbers-wise, DoTC and EC are pretty close (ignoring No Apex builds for the moment). The one to play is probably more of a matter of the one that you are better at playing and still allowing you to, first and foremost, be a tank.

[shut jasper]

https://gif.fxtwitter.com/tweet_video/HAUeFtVbwAAsTbB.gif

found it

[muted pulsar]

the only glaring mistake that i could see in my dotc play is that i don't prio thrash at all even post buff cause i'm pretty sure it's still super low prio, but i may be mistaken

[red knoll]

Its not low prio

It never has been

[uneven flame]

IIRC BryBear who does 20s on DOTC says Thrash is super high prio

[muted pulsar]

yeah in m+

[teal moat]

guys where do u find the latest routes i have no idea

[uneven flame]

Ok, thats fair - idk about ST/raids

[red knoll]

Thrash still important in raid

[muted pulsar]

it's still at the very bottom in the updated pin

[red knoll]

And always has been

For rage gen

Keeping up 3 stacks

[burnt shore]

You should always be pressing thrash, whether single target or AoE.

[uneven flame]

Thrash has a long CD, and also goes off CD when you cast 3 abilities right so its always a good key to press on CD

or... "long CD"

[half cave]

I wish SR and FR were off gcd. Using a global to not do damage feels so bad lol

[uneven flame]

I think thrash is a button you press off CD regardless of what spec youre playing

[muted pulsar]

idk why you guys act as if i said i don't press thrash at all lol

[uneven flame]

especially after 300% dmg buff

[muted pulsar]

i just follow the prio in the pins

[uneven flame]

I have only read 2 of your messages

but any ability in prio is probably intended to be cast when thrash is on CD

[muted pulsar]

that's not how a priority list works lmao

[uneven flame]

that is how APL works yes

[muted pulsar]

if a spell is supposed to be pressed on cd it's at the top of the list

[uneven flame]

Then maybe the list is wrong who knows

[half cave]

I've never liked priority lists because I don't think they really describe how you should be thinking of things. I think cast sequences for openers and cool down usage followed by filler rotation is a lot more useful.

[edgy merlin]

that's literally an apl

[uneven flame]

if an APL is made/done properly it will literally cover the best action to execute possible for given scenario

[red knoll]

Thrash is 5th

[uneven flame]

TBF the way this is formatted is really bad for an APL

no offense whoever made this

IIRC its better on the dreamgrove.gg website

[muted pulsar]

thrash is bottom after 3 stacks

[red knoll]

You should be keeping your stacks up

And still pressing it over swipe

[muted pulsar]

no shit

[uneven flame]

Feels like you skipped thrash

[muted pulsar]

yes, because red moon is up

[uneven flame]

i see

i dont play raid spec so i wouldnt know

[muted pulsar]

later i did skip casts though

that i shouldn't

once red moon is down

as i said

[half cave]

I wonder with priority lists always say to maul @ 60.

Personally i think with Dotc you should maul @ 80 and ravage @ 60.

• only consumes 60 either way
• banking to 80 means you might proc ravage - one less "wasted" on maul
• mangle gore reset on 80
• dotc has 120 max rage so you won't overcap even holding to 80

[muted pulsar]

i didn't prio it enough outside of red moon but 2 stacks of thrash built 10sec later are not catching up 7k dps in 3min

[muted pulsar]

that is the case

[marble thunder]

I can use this gif, thank u

[muted pulsar]

dreamgrove prio

says raze at 100+ rage

to bank rage for procs

[half cave]

Nice

[red knoll]

I think the pins cover for if youre playing ec

But idk

[edgy merlin]

The reason is that you are gonna get gcd throttled sometimes if you wait to 80. There will be free globals (fillers/swipe) where you only have 60 rage which is perfect to cast maul. If you wait until 80 rage you might be in a situation where you now have 80+ rage but both mangle and thrash are ready so either you overcap rage (bad) or cast maul over mangle/thrash (bad)

[muted pulsar]

no otherwise thrash outside of building stacks should be way higher

not at the very bottom

[red knoll]

Mangle still good in ec

Idk what to tell you

[half cave]

Ya ill do a 60 maul > swipe. But not if i have a mangle charge

[muted pulsar]

open a quick sim, thrash is used asap everytime

as EC

[violet holly]

Hey so for m+ what's the tldr situation dotc vs ec nopex, now that ppl had lots of time to test? Similar dps/surv but nopex is slightly better and less fun?

[still locust]

Yeah, APL was updated on reset. Thrash with lunar calling is highest prio outside of being in bear form

[muted pulsar]

yeah so as i said pin prio isn't for EC but dotc

also mentions ravage soo

would need additional conditional lines to include EC

[uneven flame]

sadly i think nopex is just borderline overpowered

worlds first 23 keys (multiple of them) being cleared with nopex build

[half cave]

Does anyone know how many targets Starfall>FF for HotW?

Is it less with EC? Meaning do EC talents buff Starfall more?

[red knoll]

5

I dont think top ec builds even take starfall

[half cave]

I think it's common for m+ right? I'm not talking for raid

[still locust]

It's technically like 5 or 6 yeah

[brazen tinsel]

Some people take it, common no

[shut jasper]

some people are skipping hotw in keys because at the highest keys it can be a bit sketchier to go catform as ec

[red knoll]

Its not common in m+ for ec anymore

[still locust]

It's ever so slightly more valuable for EC

[still locust]

I just don't think most of them do hotw at all

[half cave]

I mean you probably want prio damage for most pulls but I'm sure Starfall is goated for like first algethar pull

[red knoll]

Gimping damage even more lfg

[half cave]

Oh interesting. Survivability more important i assume?

[shut jasper]

if you ff on a big pull as ec you just go splat at higher keys

[still locust]

No, they're just lazy or something

[shut jasper]

not keeping IF is a big deal

[half cave]

Fair

[red knoll]

You use it on bosses

[hazy mural]

it wont save a key, but can ruin it at that lvl

[muted pulsar]

read somewhere you can get crit in cat form if not dotc, is that true ?

[still locust]

You can get crit in cat form even as dotc I think?

[hazy mural]

so probs not worth the opportunity cost there

[shut jasper]

you can get crit out of form even as dotc

[half cave]

I use dreadscale for m+ and macro it to my hotw so the shield covers my shift

[red knoll]

Its a large dps increase on st

[still locust]

IIRC they fucked it up when they split up persistence and the DOTC talent

[red knoll]

Myb

You can get crit outside of bear form

Period

Even as dotc

Its stupid

[shut jasper]

feral still has crit immunity in cat form when shifting from bear

[still locust]

But yeah, you're never in danger on ST swapping to do HOTW

[shut jasper]

which is funny

[still locust]

Persistence is strong enough that it carries you

[red knoll]

If you just barkskin before hotw you should be fine

Even if crit

[violet holly]

make sure you have that bark running just in case heh

[muted pulsar]

#guardian message ah yeah found the message

[still locust]

@high path if you have 5 minutes, might be worth it to update pin rotation to mention that EC puts thrash at the top

[red knoll]

I think its higher for dotc now too

At least if taking fc

[still locust]

Maybe a little bit but nothing significant

You will still basically always thrash on CD anyway

Even if it's the "Lowest" prio above fillers

[red knoll]

Yeah

Idk what he was talking about

Maybe inside red moon

You miss some

[violet holly]

for ec nopex is it better for me to press maul for some st dmg or min maxing thrash/mf for lunar beam uptime is better overall? (im also pressing mangle on cd)

[still locust]

Red moon is fun, but can definitely mess up rotational clarity

Especially as EC during incarn

I did some quick sims earlier in the week and EC still wants to mash out mangle as long as red moon is up

[hazy mural]

depends if u take KB or not

[still locust]

Even if it means ignoring thrash

[violet holly]

with kb instead of sundering

[still locust]

Yeah for sure worth it then

[hazy mural]

with KB, 100 pct

[still locust]

To maul

[jovial mauve]

guys is it worth to heart of the wild in single target with m+ build? in that case should i spend 5 combo points into some spell after HotW?

[red knoll]

Uh no

[still locust]

HOTW is worth it, spending combo points is not

[jovial mauve]

so just swap cat, HotW and switch bear again?

[still locust]

Yep

[jovial mauve]

no ferocious bite or rip¿

[still locust]

Correct

[violet holly]

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KVjYDHtfB91hyNkT?fight=last&type=damage-done&source=1
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KVjYDHtfB91hyNkT?fight=1&type=damage-done&source=1
I guess I can improve it

[hazy mural]

speaking of MC, anyone else experiencing bats being pulled in the 2nd area a lot?

not even on the bridge, but after the ritualist miniboss

[violet holly]

yes it happened in that run

[shut jasper]

did you have a dh by any chance?

[hazy mural]

feels like LB might be causing it

happened without DH

[forest flume]

Yep

[hazy mural]

gotten to a point I need to add em in my route

its 100 pct every key I do there in bear

[forest flume]

I had an interesting bug this weekend in a key, I pre-incarn while not in bear form, and then the key started, and I tried to thrash first pack but instead it tried to fish (my bars were stuck to human form)

had to /reload mid pack, in a 19 nexus xd

[rustic kestrel]

did you catch anything

[forest flume]

Seems like I caught a bug

[hazy mural]

good thing u didnt try to pick up apples...

[high path]

Done

[still locust]

[violet holly]

I guess this time it was the lock that pulled the bat?

what's winter's end

[hazy mural]

its the weirdest thing tho... when I check its never LB itself, but LB always up when they fly down

so either bats have a bug that makes em fly down a lot now or its LB pulling em but not damaging em maybe?

[rustic kestrel]

im pretty sure people just have their cameras top down and a bat ends up flying into their view and they accidently click it

[violet holly]

they get attracted to the light source

[still locust]

frost mage freezing stacks stuff

I think it's when mobs die with stacks, the stacks still explode for like half damage as aoe

[shut jasper]

there's something fucky with the z axis of some spells, haven't played my dh in a few weeks but when I did the devourer eye beam thingy consistently pulled bats

[hazy mural]

had to do MC a few times and I have had 0 pulls on the same bit where bats were never pulled... and with being EC + mf style, u have LB up like most of the time in that area cause of the long chains

[still locust]

And then they fixed it so DDH couldn't eye beam flying dragon in raid

[trim plaza]

My teams demo has had weird shit happening these last 2 days where imps just starts to fire out of combat mobs from narnia

[violet holly]

yep

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/KVjYDHtfB91hyNkT?fight=last&view=events&type=damage-taken&hostility=1&source=116&start=6674675&end=6718100 looks like it was warlock stuff that pulled the bat

[hazy mural]

xDD

[shut jasper]

stampede and boar from pack leader hunter hero talent still can't hit that dragon

[still locust]

[red knoll]

Yeah demo has been bugging out for weeks

Its not for everyone but it happens sometimes

[shut jasper]

luckily not an issue on myth but it was annoying on hc

[red knoll]

Ive had it brick quite a few keys to the point where I just stopped taking locks

[trim plaza]

Ye it doesnt happen every dungeon, but sometimes lock imps just decide its time to brick a key

[red knoll]

Its not the imps usually for me its the fucking spawned

Big guys

The guy with the giant green beam

[trim plaza]

Diabolist spawns ye

Hero talent

[red knoll]

Had them pull the entire room after 2nd boss in mt

So cool

[trim plaza]

Or doomguard spawning middle of pack behind u lol

[red knoll]

Very livable

[hazy mural]

so... actually diabolical for once? xD

[teal moat]

guys where can i find the latest routes etc

what do u use

[half cave]

Is front of the pack still bugged?

I remember in beta it didn't stack with the 5% MS from the druid tree

[violet holly]

if you just want a route there's the weekly route tab in raider io

[teal moat]

i wana see where those tanks i run 19s with getting their routes from cz i noticed they run same routes

[zealous nacelle]

Thoughts

[brazen tinsel]

Pretty standard nopex build, I'd pick up hotw tho

[half cave]

You're going to want the one that shields with FR over the magic DR, IMO.

[brazen tinsel]

Very good boss dmg when combined with LB

[zealous nacelle]

matted fur?

I've never used forest walk, or symbiotic

[half cave]

The one under reinvigoration. I forgot the name

[red knoll]

NR is very situational and gets a lot worse for broad use the higher up you go

[nocturne sphinx]

Thanks. After digging in I didn't want to hide all of them. So after finding the API calls it was just easier to create an aura to hide it for me when I have a no apex talent loadout loaded.

[violet holly]

you can also see routes in logs, or in raider io you can open a run a see the route

[red knoll]

You basically only want it for when you need a large shield for a tank buster

Like AA

On vex

[zealous nacelle]

Okay, so what should I be changing here haha

[half cave]

For NoPex, IMO, Pick either if you're using FR a lot or not.

If you spam FR, esp before pull for a shield and during incarn w/ no cd, NR gains crazy value. Safer but more tedious play style.

If you want to use FR only when low, take the magic DR and MN, IMO. I don't think this is as good because MN sucks (1-2% dps) and you lose utility from FR. But you can just spam damage during your globals and yolo.

[burnt sandal]

Yes I would either take HOTW or if you are against it. Drop fluid form for something else because you don’t need it

Personally I play HOTW without fluid form. But that’s because I’m a sadist

[rustic kestrel]

oh thats a cool addon

[half cave]

For Druid tree, i like this. I usually don't run crazy high keys and having roar up after every single pack makes my runs a lot faster. I absolutely love improved stampeading roar. If the packs you are doing take over 2 minutes anyway, it's a waste obviously.

I think hotw is worth it even if you only dump it into bosses because you're worried about shifting into cat during trash pulls. Lots of DPS for one point.

If you want to be more defensive, you can take the points out of movement speed and put them into matted fur

I don't really see the value of Forest walk. I think you get more value out of roar and lycana inspiration. Then you don't have to worry about uptime.

Outside of matted fur, The only other point I would consider is symbiotic relationship if you have someone in your team that's really squishy so you can try to help keep them alive. But note that that's a selfless choice, you're not going to get much value out of it since no one outside of tanks does a lot of self heal.

[burnt sandal]

Forest walk is really solid in AA and Skyreach as a reliable kite tool if the mobs can’t be snared or your shit is on CD

[nocturne sphinx]

Forest walk is great for the 16% healing received especially when it procs off dream guide automagically

[burnt sandal]

Otherwise tho. I agree with it not being that great

Like I use Roar to gather giant pull first boss in AA. Then forest walk to kite out the bites

[half cave]

I usually kite in travel from with wild charge with SI up for kiting on AA bleed first pull after incarn wears off. I feel like they always catch me in bear

[half cave]

What up time do you get on it with dream guide?

[rustic kestrel]

its like 35%

[burnt sandal]

Yea I use SI to stand longer and give my DPS time to pump then forest walk. Just a preference thing

[half cave]

Do you feel like you're fast enough with FW in bear to kite reliably? Might try it out. I use lycantha for 5% + 9% speed on gear and I never feel fast enough in beae

[burnt sandal]

Wild charge is smart tho. I’ll have to start using that

For AA I run 2/2 so yea 16% is nice