🏆・jimbos-invitational

[lapis remnant]

I mean x2 for any flush?

same as the fancy flush one

[zenith sierra]

No because it's 1 suit no?

That's what smeared does, it just turns the suits into "red and black"?????

[tender musk]

they technically count as both suits

[lapis remnant]

assuming you use both reds/blacks in a flush

oh wait yeah

hm

[main mirage]

:)

[zenith sierra]

(:

[main mirage]

i like the phrase "using both reds/blacks in a flush"

make the impossible possible

[zenith sierra]

That makes sense

[tender musk]

joker that makes every 5-card hand also count as a flush

[zenith sierra]

Shortcut n 5 fongorz are laughing rn

[winged pasture]

We should play around with it first but Flower Pot does have some weak synergy as well:

• Thinner decks and 4oak/5oak
• You only need 1 or 2 wild cards to make them easier
• You only need 3 wilds to guarantee the proc if you can fit them in a hand

Not that these make it easy, but in testing IMO it's easier than what I'm seeing here

[main mirage]

this but straights/full houses pls

giv straight hosu

[lapis remnant]

oh yeah wild cards work for pot

[wicked hamlet]

how do wilds work with flower pot

[zenith sierra]

Strouse is the new jonkler 😨

[tender musk]

neat!

[lapis remnant]

they count as any missing joker

[tender musk]

blease

[lapis remnant]

so if you play three plus wild it counts as four

[winged pasture]

Wild cards always count as a single ideal suit for your flower pot hand

[zenith sierra]

The wilds can say they are a random suit

Also stone cards just don't count towards pot right?

[main mirage]

how does the code determine the best suit when you have 3 of them for flower pot but also could make a flush instead

[winged pasture]

It acts as both

[zenith sierra]

Makes sense

[winged pasture]

You can have a flush that procs the pot

[main mirage]

wha

[zenith sierra]

I love a flush with flowerpot proc

[main mirage]

you've been saying it picks one single ideal suit

[zenith sierra]

Wilds cam be more than 1 suit

What else is new

[tender musk]

one suit per ask

[main mirage]

this would clarify if true

[winged pasture]

For each evaluation - so it does that for the poker hand one to determine the hand and again for the pot to determine if it procs

[main mirage]

ok

[lapis remnant]

4 fingers straight flush with one wild in flush and the straight card being the last suit?

[main mirage]

that has not been clear for a while

[mellow echo]

"What hand is it?"
"Does it have 4 Suits?"
"How many Diamonds?"

[zenith sierra]

I'm dumg

[main mirage]

is there any case where it being multiple suits per ask would actually benefit?

[zenith sierra]

It is the strouse hand, it has 8 suits, and it has -19 diamonds

Yw

[zinc crypt]

https://tenor.com/view/its-happening-gif-23353691

[tight jacinth]

Sorry missed this message. I agree with consumables having a variable worth throughout a run. The issue with Ankh is that its too extreme. Snap pick ante 1 and unpickable past ante 3. Every other spectral has some sort of use case (no matter how minimal ) at any point in a run

[zenith sierra]

Possibly, blackboard and another joker similar to StM?

Held in hand

[main mirage]

what is stm

[zenith sierra]

Shoot the moon

The +13 for Qspades in held

[tender musk]

that one was changed to just queens

[zenith sierra]

Except a red suit

[zenith sierra]

Damn

[lapis remnant]

I feel like a deck with only face cards would have a bunch of synergy

[sage prism]

Drspectered being wholesome in Dan Gheesling's chat

[main mirage]

both of those only benefit from being 1 suit per ask

[lapis remnant]

scary face, hit the road, shoot the moon, the k/q x1.5 one

[tender musk]

pareidolia :)

[zenith sierra]

Wait that's true

I'm really dumg

[tight jacinth]

Dan is back?

[sage prism]

Dan has just started

[main mirage]

im just trying to figure out if there was any reason to make the distinction with how wild works when "it's every suit at once" would've worked

[tender musk]

blackboard asks for black cards

[zenith sierra]

Multiple ancient jokers? (Probably counts as multiple asks)

[tender musk]

if it was every suit blackboard wouldn't proc

[fiery citrus]

would flowerpot benefit from being more than one suit per ask?

[tight jacinth]

Dan is ready to tear it up

[main mirage]

good thinking but yeah probably still separate

[tender musk]

wait it would actually?

its still a yes

[winged pasture]

multiple ancients would work

[main mirage]

blackboard doesn't exclude reds, it includes blacks

[winged pasture]

It's still yes

[tender musk]

right yeah

[winged pasture]

So your assumption is that when the card is played, it 'chooses' a suit and sticks with that throughout scoring right?

Based on the desc

[main mirage]

no i assumed it was every suit

[zenith sierra]

Same

Because like, normally that's how wilds work

[main mirage]

every suit at all times

except when debuffed

[zenith sierra]

I soon did catch that it chose sometimes

[winged pasture]

Isn't that the same thing as how it actually works?

[hot moss]

hafu is doing good

[main mirage]

that's what im saying

[winged pasture]

wait what's the problem

my analogy?

[tender musk]

my confusion with blackboard came from its wording, it uses "only" doesn't it? so a card thats all 4 suits wouldn't "only" be black

[zenith sierra]

Well flowerpot would proc with highcard /:|

[main mirage]

there was all this confusion about how wild worked when the assumption was functionally correct

[tender musk]

if it doesnt use "only" then no issue lmao

[zenith sierra]

Mhm

[winged pasture]

let me see

[main mirage]

a long time ago when we were talking about how wilds worked we said the assumption that they count as every suit all the time and we were corrected

[hushed owl]

how i can play ?

[main mirage]

then i thought that it picked one optimal suit per hand for all asks

based on that correction

[zenith sierra]

Well then it's hard to say which is better

[winged pasture]

My description of how it works was just to show literally how it works

in the code

thing asks 'Are you suit X?' it answers 'yes'

[main mirage]

i remember that phrase

[zenith sierra]

I dont

[winged pasture]

That might have caused the confusion

The card could be asked 20 times in a single play

[zenith sierra]

That's alot or questions

20 questions

(Not a pun)

[tight jacinth]

Will is ranting about the dice again 😂

[zenith sierra]

It's not hard to roll a 7 on the die man

Will has skissues

[winged pasture]

'are you spade or club?' 'yes'

not 'only'

[mellow echo]

Stone Card, are you a Spade? A Club possibly?

[winged pasture]

not even at all

[zenith sierra]

We don't talk about stone cards

[tight jacinth]

Does all 6's affect Hone? I know it was asked as a joke earlier but im genuinely curious

[main mirage]

only affects listed probabilities (1 in X)

[tender musk]

okay swag

no issue imo

[mellow echo]

only "printed/advertised/listed probabilities"
it changes the text from 1 in X to 2 in X

This was also a point of confusion for me

Skoottie hasn't figured it out yet

[main mirage]

still waiting for oops all sixes to say "listed"

[zenith sierra]

Meh

[winged pasture]

Here's the biggest strategic change I have been waiting for here

havent seen it yet

[tight jacinth]

Interesting. Can someone post the text of all 6's

[winged pasture]

you should now hope that banana goes extinct

[tight jacinth]

wait nvm i got it

[zenith sierra]

Banana becomes x15 😨

[main mirage]

yeah no one knows the other banana comes in after gros michel tho

not unless they frequent the random button on wikipedia

[tight jacinth]

ok yeah this isnt just an ESL thing. I think the text needs to be clearer

[winged pasture]

Skoottie is back!

[zenith sierra]

Big pog

[main mirage]

Full House!

[winged pasture]

6oaK

[zenith sierra]

Well it's 6 people

[main mirage]

stAHP

[zenith sierra]

So full manor

[tight jacinth]

just one more run. I can stop at any time

[fickle rapids]

the multi stream. it's beautiful

[rustic wind]

Fuller House

[zenith sierra]

I'm still not watching any of them

[covert umbra]

Skoottie back

[main mirage]

now THIS is podracing

[zenith sierra]

I watch a couple of skootties run, and I've been spoiled lmao

[tender musk]

i cant wait for them to find cavendish

banana...

2!

[main mirage]

some

bananas

[zenith sierra]

Give some of those

bananas

Some

pants

[tender musk]

ive seen a couple of gros michels go extinct but no cavendish yet

[zenith sierra]

I forgot what cavand8sh looked like btw

[tight jacinth]

will is hitting some jokers

[tender musk]

it looks like a banana

[zenith sierra]

I forgot if it was a bunch of naners, or just a bigger naner

[lapis remnant]

bigger

it's like the fancy straight/flush ones

but instead of a joker it's a nana in the middle

[zenith sierra]

Sadge

Why banana only

Why not icecream or pop

[tight jacinth]

Will also thinks Hone works with oops all 6"s

[tender musk]

cavendish art is in the leaks doc

[zenith sierra]

In lazy

[fickle rapids]

gonna laugh real hard when dan gets the first cavendish

[zenith sierra]

And on my phone

[lapis remnant]

gamba who gets first meganana

[main mirage]

ooo

[zenith sierra]

Me (totally)

[main mirage]

my money's on Hafu

[zenith sierra]

Cavendish is common?

[lapis remnant]

I think frost

[zenith sierra]

I forgor again

[tender musk]

uncommon

[zenith sierra]

Kk

Makes sense

[tender musk]

X3 Mult at a cheap price!

[zenith sierra]

Rare banana when

[vital spire]

Meanwhle me, who just watched Skootie's stream: How can anyone top 100+ million chips?

[tight jacinth]

If local does not add the rare banana i will

[zenith sierra]

I will first

And shove it in suggwstions

[lapis remnant]

do what he did but better

[main mirage]

skoottie only had 3 glass cards and no poly

[tender musk]

skootties score was a mere 3 glass cards, with red seal and hack

[lapis remnant]

ez

[main mirage]

it's definitely possible to go higher

[tender musk]

even adding 2 more of the card with the same setup would be an order of magnitude higher

[zenith sierra]

Me when no wee jonkler to help out hack 😭

[covert umbra]

and obelisk

[tender musk]

wee + hack will go hard

[zenith sierra]

It's honestly surprising how many jokers from v0.9 have a counterpart joker

[tight jacinth]

skoottie has the ante 1 fat deck joker

[zenith sierra]

Halogrom?

[tight jacinth]

idk the name lol

[tender musk]

hologram yeah

[zenith sierra]

Marblejoker is laughing with hologram

[vital spire]

5 red seal glass 5s and Hack, Obelisk@ 8x mult or higher might beat Scoottie's score, but DAMN! 100 million chips is incredible enough to do!

[tight jacinth]

What's the verdict on hologram so far? Bloating the deck is a large downside. Is 0.1x per random card enough? Or should it be buffed to 0.2x per?

[hot moss]

HAFU GOT 1000000

ye

[tender musk]

even without obelisk, 5 of those cards beats it easy

[covert umbra]

Hafu pb

1 mil!

[tender musk]

nice hafu

[mellow echo]

Skoottie did the Tag mouseover so you can log it

[tender musk]

lot more rare jokers in this version than sept demo

[hot moss]

ye

i feel like the suit jokers need to be buffed maybe

steven is way better

[zenith sierra]

i full believe someone will get a BS/hack glass flush 5 run

maybe more with ringmaster showman

[tender musk]

showman

[hot moss]

gluttonous, lustful, wrathful, and greedy

[main mirage]

where's the other 3 deadly sins

[zenith sierra]

dont we have the diamond, rube, sapphire and onyx

[hot moss]

we do

[zenith sierra]

not important

[hot moss]

also its bloodstone and aroow head for the middle 2

[hot moss]

very important

[zenith sierra]

yeah yeah i thought so

i forgor

[tender musk]

theyre for the other 3 suits

[main mirage]

which are?

[zenith sierra]

bro it is INGRAVED in my memory that in one of gluk's vid he said that arrowhead looked like something he wasn't going to say

[main mirage]

bruh 😂

[tender musk]

Oh You Know

[hot moss]

spiamonds, clearts, and ||REDACTED||

[zenith sierra]

silly the others are clearly

[main mirage]

clearts is cursed. never say that again

[zenith sierra]

shovel, lungs, rectangles, and tee's

dont ask why theres 4

there just is

[tiny mountain]

Give us the Prideful, Envious, and Slothful Jokers, you cowards!

[zenith sierra]

claerts

[tulip pebble]

Michael made a custom deck of cards that includes spiamonds, spubs, cluclus, and kale

[zenith sierra]

kale is my favorite suit

[hot moss]

kale best suit

[main mirage]

k a l e

[zenith sierra]

shovel lung rectangle golf tee

hehe

[lapis remnant]

ngl I'm pretty surprised

[tulip pebble]

The 3 of kale was the first card he made

[zenith sierra]

kale flush

[lapis remnant]

it's been nine hours and both the competitors and viewers seem to be in good spirits

[hot moss]

klush

[zenith sierra]

wouldnt it be kalush

[main mirage]

it would be a fale

or flale

[lapis remnant]

why must every name be shortened

is kale flush not good enough for the masses

[zenith sierra]

idk talutmb

[hot moss]

hey babr

[zenith sierra]

XD

[lapis remnant]

bad breaking reference

[zenith sierra]

real slick coming from you Spogu

[main mirage]

hi im relvab

[hot moss]

no you're e

[zenith sierra]

E

[main mirage]

https://tenor.com/view/letter-e-gif-9063749

[winged pasture]

[tight jacinth]

Will is juiced right now

[lapis remnant]

will got mega money

[tight jacinth]

polychrome bottle 😂

[lapis remnant]

oop

[winged pasture]

Jungle Juice

[lapis remnant]

woah 100k will

idk what the leaderboard is rn

[tight jacinth]

Wills just hitting the right jokers

[fickle rapids]

She’s 1% of the way there!

[zenith sierra]

skoottie my beloved

[lapis remnant]

omg hafu brought in a ringer

[mellow echo]

someone predicted that, too
mcpower, I think?

[tender musk]

hough the purple spades look so nice on a gold card

[vast karma]

#🕹・game-discussion message

[lapis remnant]

will closing in on 4th

[hot moss]

is cavendish in this build

yes

[lapis remnant]

I wonder what thunk's been doing

is it enjoying the content or fixing the game

[winged pasture]

yes

[lapis remnant]

understandable, have a good day

[hallow oak]

No reason it can't be both :>

[tender musk]

crazy how close things are staying after all this time

2 low millions, 1 hundred millions

not far apart!

[mellow echo]

honestly not that far apart

Skoottie is in Business with Parei again
he's starting to believe

[lapis remnant]

one day when the summoningsalt balatro high score vid comes out this invitational will be used as content

[steady obsidian]

unseeded%

[graceful falcon]

If it wasn't for Skoottie wilding out, this would have still been a nailbiter. Even though the difference between 1 million and 100 million could be just a few cards triggering

[rustic wind]

(“HOME - We’re Finally Landing” intensifies)

[main mirage]

which is why it's still anyone's game

15 hours left

[tardy belfry]

same for 100 mil and a bill

[lapis remnant]

I mean the blueprint's out on how to get 100mil

all they gotta do is do what skoottie did

[raven pier]

But then, Skoottie shocked the world by doing THIS…

[lapis remnant]

nah this isn't the high score

this is when the game exploded in popularity, exposing a new generation of runners to the game

[zenith sierra]

oh no

i feel it now

the overwhelming-ness of not being good enough to be popular

[raven pier]

Can’t wait for pooplicker34 to start grinding the leaderboards in a few months

[lapis remnant]

who has the funniest name in the discord

we need a funny name wr holder

[zenith sierra]

stupid

[raven pier]

When 111robloxdude joined the speedrun community I got those vibes

[main mirage]

admiralspectred is funny concerning inside jokes

[zenith sierra]

i never understood it :\

[main mirage]

🚢

[zenith sierra]

oh

[lapis remnant]

ship this man

[zenith sierra]

fish that man

[mellow echo]

ship 'em

the tribe has spoken

[main mirage]

deafening foghorn

[zenith sierra]

you cant x2 mult me

nuh uh

damnit

[tardy belfry]

• 2 mult better

[zenith sierra]

its a jonkler reference

silly

[main mirage]

+2 is a reference to uh

abstract

[zenith sierra]

checks out

[main mirage]

bus

[mellow echo]

Hallucination

[tardy belfry]

+2 is a reference to chat going +2

[main mirage]

supernova

[zenith sierra]

honestly, with baseball card existing. its possible abstract gets nerfed to "common only" (but its like +5 now) ((just another thought provoker in my head rn))

[tardy belfry]

fair i deserved that

[zenith sierra]

then theres a rare variant (useless)

[sage prism]

Is Balatro realeasing

?

[zenith sierra]

+2 is a reference to my dying soul in uno

[floral bough]

im back and skootie's in the lead with 145 million score

wow

[main mirage]

there's another demo in 6 days

invitational is mostly showing it off

[lapis remnant]

+4 this man

[sage prism]

BBruhdamn

[main mirage]

new demo goes pretty hard

[zenith sierra]

okay but make it blue please

[lapis remnant]

green

[zenith sierra]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[main mirage]

lmao

[sage prism]

I hope is releasing ( but don't money pls )

[lapis remnant]

you and me both buddy

[tardy belfry]

huh

what do you want an add between every round

[main mirage]

balatro mobile

[zenith sierra]

stole my joke

[main mirage]

the balatro mobile ripoffs stole your jonkler

[lapis remnant]

buy the OP deck for 5.99 (every card poly glass red seal)

[rugged rose]

(with chance being 0/4)

[zenith sierra]

knowing mobile indie games it wont happen

[tardy belfry]

its just a you win screen

[hot moss]

skootie is back!!

[rugged rose]

no

[zenith sierra]

wuat woah

[hot moss]

*all ranks are customisable

[rugged rose]

*all cards are 2

of spades

[tardy belfry]

pay a dollar for how many times you want your cards to retrigger

[wicked hamlet]

unironically a great song

[zenith sierra]

and wee joker is guanteed

[rugged rose]

wait i think we're kinda not on topic

[rugged rose]

and

[zenith sierra]

OMG GUYS SKOOTTIE YES WWWWWW POG POG POG POG

[sage prism]

Balatro Demo 1 👍 , Balatro Demo 2 🤯

[zenith sierra]

(on topic discussion to me imo)

[floral bough]

wow

[main mirage]

oh man

[covert umbra]

wait what lol

thats insane

[zenith sierra]

gawd dam

[floral bough]

skootie's popping off with double obelisk with brainstorm

[zenith sierra]

ankh i asssume?

[mellow echo]

we're up to x8

[main mirage]

sheesh!

[mellow echo]

from Invis Jonkler

[covert umbra]

yo eait 8x also

[zenith sierra]

wait invis also keeps editions?

[lapis remnant]

huh

skoottie

[covert umbra]

yes

[lapis remnant]

call him Gordon Ramsay

[zenith sierra]

also the bs is a W

[covert umbra]

anything that dupes jokers keeps editions

[hot moss]

invis jonkler ftw

[zenith sierra]

i swear bs is going to become to most out of context term on this discord

and i have no remorse

[lapis remnant]

I love bs

[zenith sierra]

same

[hot moss]

bro bs is based

[raven pier]

Petition to write brs instead

Not that I rly care

[lapis remnant]

if blueprint is bp brainstorm is bs

we gotta call blueprint blp then

[covert umbra]

I remember WW2

[wicked hamlet]

no you don't

you're in school

[raven pier]

ankh is WW2

[lapis remnant]

I do not remember it happening

but I do remember it

much like the alamo

[zenith sierra]

that makes invisibly WW3

[covert umbra]

I mean the glitch

[covert umbra]

trueish

[raven pier]

WW2 was a hypothetical glitch

[covert umbra]

showman WW4?

[zenith sierra]

mhm

i so wish WWDD existed

[raven pier]

Well showman and invisible are from before WW1

[zenith sierra]

we could've min maxed 5 dusks so hard

[covert umbra]

wait did skoottie losem?!?

what happened

[zenith sierra]

WW0.3 and WW0.2

[raven pier]

no, but he didn’t win

ie. get a PB

[zenith sierra]

he gave up because it was a bad run

[wicked hamlet]

who did

[covert umbra]

dang

I mean I agree, but still was few mils and very funny

[tender musk]

i was iffy on obelisk at first but i really like it in hindsight

not as much as campfire though :)

[wicked hamlet]

for obvious reasons

[covert umbra]

I liked obelisk on leak day, thought it was mid start of invitation, now think its inbetween mid and cracked

the party seems around mid, def under obelisk imo

I love how everyone has swapped to magic deck LOL

[tardy belfry]

imo the other one is better

[hot moss]

switch back to anaglyph imo

[hot moss]

idk man blue deck kinda sucks

[covert umbra]

I mean sacraficing a round for 0.5x

[hot moss]

not one though

you can throwaway 2 hands

and get 1.0x

[covert umbra]

? we talking about same jonkler

[hot moss]

skootie be like

[hot moss]

obelisk right

[covert umbra]

lol

[sage prism]

Lol, lmao even

[covert umbra]

Im sayin party isnt worth losing a round for 0.5x

[hot moss]

u mean throwback

[covert umbra]

yeah

[hot moss]

ah ic

[covert umbra]

I call party cause name cant remember and well hes partying

[zenith sierra]

meh

throwback is probably my favorite first demo jonkler

but obelisk is kinda just better to stack

[covert umbra]

My favorite first demo jonkler probably Jimbo

[zenith sierra]

obelisk is rare?

[winged pasture]

What are thoughts on Obelisk now? Is it too much?

Not in terms of balance but in terms of how much effort is needed

[zenith sierra]

it just sems like a much more op version of supernova

just backwards

[covert umbra]

Its perfect imo though might be cause only 45 jonklers

or however many

[zenith sierra]

fair

im just imagining building highcard a bunch, then grinding out obe for like a constant x15

[mellow echo]

It's good if you know it exists and plan around it like Telescope.
In an average run, it has no text

[tender musk]

its a minigame joker with a fixed endpoint once you start playing it

i like it

[winged pasture]

is it too much of a minigame

[hot moss]

no

i like it

[zenith sierra]

mhm

[winged pasture]

It really controls your run in a way that other minigame jokers don't

[tender musk]

i think it fits in well with the gameplay loop

[hot moss]

trying to avoid what you've played before

[winged pasture]

I like it for the record

[zenith sierra]

but then again highscore stacking

[hot moss]

avoiding high cards as much as you can

[covert umbra]

I like it atm but full release may be different, plus Im not actually playing the game

[zenith sierra]

mhm yes let me play like 40 highcards then spend the rest of the run building obe to like x18

thats what im a bit scared about

that being meta

[covert umbra]

thing is you only need like 20 high cards

unless burglar

[tender musk]

that wont beat out retriggers tbh

[zenith sierra]

burglar bs is crazy

[zenith sierra]

wym retriggers

that doesnt mean nothing

[covert umbra]

I think the game needs another +hands jonkler

[tender musk]

since its additive xmult, the multiplicative xmult scales harder

[tender musk]

poly/glass cards with retriggers

[zenith sierra]

yeah but what does that have to do wtih scaling obe

[tender musk]

^

[covert umbra]

like +1 hands per 2 jonklers owned

idk

[zenith sierra]

im dumb idk why that means anything tho 😭😭

[tender musk]

obelisk scales linearly at plus X0.5 Mult, whereas each glass trigger scales multiplicatively at times X2 Mult

so, each additional trigger of a glass card will equal twice as many obelisk scales as the last

[graceful falcon]

Hafu with the Obelisk - Hack combo now

[zenith sierra]

yeah but, once you get the glass cards, you dont need to worry about them anymore

[graceful falcon]

She also has a red seal glass, just waiting to copy it

[hot moss]

oh?

[zenith sierra]

oh wait

any way to expand your deck with jokers?

for this demo

[hot moss]

no marble right

so

[sage prism]

Standard packs

[hot moss]

with jokers

[sage prism]

Prob not

[fickle rapids]

hafu just turned her one glass red seal 3 into three

she's cookin now

[lapis remnant]

cookin w gas

[hot moss]

hafu is cookin

[lapis remnant]

plus good obelisk

[hot moss]

3 red seal holo glass cards!!!

[lapis remnant]

woah invis

could dope obelisk 👀

[hot moss]

she doesnt have time to dupe

she has less than 3 rounds

[lapis remnant]

pain

[main mirage]

so

what are current thoughts on flush five

feels rather dominant

[zenith sierra]

yes

[main mirage]

not score wise, but buildwise

[zenith sierra]

although its so unsatisfying that its +14

+14 is such a weird even number

[wicked hamlet]

it could have been 15

what could have been

[zenith sierra]

thats what i was abt to say

like im fine flouse being +12

12 is cool

[lapis remnant]

hafu big hand

[zenith sierra]

tbh i wouldn't think it would be that strong since its harder to dupe cards

no dna and tarots are rarer

[lapis remnant]

6 mil for hafu

[hot moss]

hafu got 6 mil

[zenith sierra]

good jub

[main mirage]

I mean compared to 5oak and flush house

it seems very easy for being top hand

[winged pasture]

People are gonna haaaaaate Cerulean Bell

[zenith sierra]

just 2400% to go to beat skoottie

[winged pasture]

🙂

[covert umbra]

new pb hype

[main mirage]

why do you think that

[wicked hamlet]

reveal

[winged pasture]

Because when you notice the effect it's frustrating

probably

[zenith sierra]

meh

its mad rng

[wicked hamlet]

what is effect

[zenith sierra]

kinda dumb for a final boss effect

imo

[main mirage]

no way. I love it

[hot moss]

same

[winged pasture]

I think it's the best one

[zenith sierra]

meh i just have a hatred for rng depoendent bosses

[winged pasture]

The best boss period

[zenith sierra]

thats just my preference

are the others getting changed btw?

[wicked hamlet]

what is it

[lapis remnant]

I do not like it in relation to my runs

[wicked hamlet]

i did not watch the invitational

[lapis remnant]

I like it as an evil boss

[lapis remnant]

pick one card to always be selected

[main mirage]

forces one card in hand to be selected for played hand or discard

[wicked hamlet]

ohhh

thats brutal

but also kinda fun

[zenith sierra]

and enhancing cards

remember

[main mirage]

o tru

[zenith sierra]

i have a feeling there is a massive glitch to stop the effect

ill have to test touchscreen

[lapis remnant]

glitches?

[zenith sierra]

i have a feeling itll work fsr

[lapis remnant]

in balatro?

no way

[zenith sierra]

no way indeed-

i feel like i can abuse something like this to get out of ceruluan crystal clean

[hot moss]

hey was the polychrome in hafus stream a bug

[zenith sierra]

no

your the bug

[hot moss]

D:

[zenith sierra]

bug jonkler would be funny

[main mirage]

😶

[zenith sierra]

allows patched bugs back into the game

[hot moss]

WW!!!

hand dupe

[zenith sierra]

hand dupe.

[hot moss]

is this a bug

[zenith sierra]

no

thats a thing

nvm

[hot moss]

it shouldnt say polychrome

[zenith sierra]

its not supposed to say polychrome or x1.5 like that

[hot moss]

ye

[zenith sierra]

gay stone

[covert umbra]

gay stone

[potent needle]

opal.........

[rugged rose]

gay stone

[hot moss]

gay stone

[ionic solar]

Chip signing off.

[covert umbra]

NOOO

[zenith sierra]

from pokemans????

[covert umbra]

Tell them I said gn

I cant speak on twitch on ipad

[winged pasture]

It's a bug

[hot moss]

:O

[zenith sierra]

fix it then

[hot moss]

oh nose

[winged pasture]

1 person can add it to bug reports and get a sick bug emoji from me 🙂

[zenith sierra]

wait spogu was that bug in v0.9 or what

[hot moss]

lightspeed

[zenith sierra]

was it just a ss from a stream

[ionic solar]

I will!!

[covert umbra]

yay

I was on stream for like 4ish hours and enjoyed there company every ding dang second

[hot moss]

yes

[zenith sierra]

kk

gn people of the blatro

love how this became "talk about v0.9.2/"

[hot moss]

gn

[covert umbra]

gn also ig

[zenith sierra]

also i just want to mention

[wicked hamlet]

sleep is for the weak

but yeah actually gn

[zenith sierra]

Xmult in the real game feels like itll be more dominate over +mult

[covert umbra]

^

[zenith sierra]

like honestly it feels like theres barely more +mult and +chip than there is Xmult

[covert umbra]

ikr

[zenith sierra]

like v0.9 roster has Xmult but it was like hard to actually get it lmao

[covert umbra]

its so different

[floral bough]

it's cool there are a set of basic chip jokers

[zenith sierra]

throwback/HtR/Obe/cons/bp/bs/hack/dusk is going to mad cook 😨

[covert umbra]

atleast poly feels more balancedish

throeback no cook imo

[zenith sierra]

meh

you never know

might get boffed

[covert umbra]

if buffed it cook

[zenith sierra]

although x0.5 a ante is pretty bad

[covert umbra]

but rn itss no cook

[zenith sierra]

x1 a ante is pretty good

[covert umbra]

its on the.couch watching tv

[zenith sierra]

im so ready to flood an entire deck of jack spades

[covert umbra]

but you lose thr shops

lol

why spadd

[zenith sierra]

uh yes give me x8 mult and bb procs

[zenith sierra]

shovel is op

okay gn frfr this time

[covert umbra]

same, maybe

[winged pasture]

Dan is in 3rd

1.1 million

above MALF and Frost

[mellow echo]

the comeback kid

the lower bracket is very exciting

[winged pasture]

lmao rude

[mellow echo]

If you're not first, you're last

[winged pasture]

Dan clutched up it was exciting

[mellow echo]

Hafu and Dan are both in the know about Hack
it's only a matter of time now

another 100 million before bedtime for sure

[runic pollen]

how did they get 150m

[mellow echo]

#🎥・videos-and-streams message

[winged pasture]

Seems like all the scores are uploading fine now

Thank goodness

Plenty of position changes

[runic pollen]

thats insane

has anyone done calcs yet to find a realistic top score for this tourny

[mellow echo]

https://discord.com/channels/1116389027176787968/1197995315001819308

[runic pollen]

[hot moss]

wait what

who's is that

skootie?

[mellow echo]

Skootter

[wicked hamlet]

what does deja vu do?

[raven pier]

red seal

[wicked hamlet]

has he hovered over that yet

[hot moss]

red seal

[wicked hamlet]

ok

sorry for asking dumb questions

i just don't care for twitch lol

[winged pasture]

So it's funny that magic deck became the only strat - I think I mentioned earlier here that I think it should probably be 1 fool card

And that would make it approx more in line with other decks

[main mirage]

what if fool and emperor?

[winged pasture]

I imagine that would become pretty reset heavy

[mellow echo]

If you're not rerolling, it's (two Fools) comparable to Yellow.
But with rerolls, it's still worse than Abandoned

[main mirage]

fair enough

[ionic solar]

I'm honestly blow away dan hit 1.7 mill

Chip and a chair is truly all he needs

[winged pasture]

Current version is worse than abandoned?

[mellow echo]

imo

[winged pasture]

I know I love it though

[mellow echo]

seems like to me

[ionic solar]

Malf gonna wake up early to get some runs in tho for sure

[winged pasture]

I think it's probably close in terms of strength

but it's very high on the fun factor too

[mellow echo]

it's close
being able to guarantee 3 Death is pretty strong

[winged pasture]

Wackier than abandoned

[mellow echo]

much wackier

[winged pasture]

I love wacky

as you know

[main mirage]

abandoned probably shouldn't be a balance point

[winged pasture]

Yeah good point

Even if it was 1 fool it'd be pretty good

Would it be better than blue?

What is the EV on Crystal Ball?

[mellow echo]

At 1 Fool, it's better than Blue

[main mirage]

really hard to say crystal ball value in this demo just from watching

[winged pasture]

There isn't a direct way to quantify it

[mellow echo]

value is the same as before
it's marginal until it's strong but not in an obvious way

[winged pasture]

There probably is a dollar amount it's worth to start the run - less than the $10 it costs

but more than 0

[mellow echo]

I think Magic Deck is overrepresented because skips still need to be buffed

[winged pasture]

They do?

[mellow echo]

imo

[hot moss]

do they?

i feel like new tags are sufficient

good ideas

[floral bough]

oh yeah anyglyph deck is not used by anyone atm iirc

[hot moss]

it should be

cause it is good

[raven pier]

I won't really know how balanced tags are unless I do fullskip runs

[hot moss]

true

[winged pasture]

I think that is more of a product of anaglyph not being ideal for high scoring runs compared to 2 fools though

[raven pier]

I think it is ideal seeded but not unseeded

[hot moss]

you can get a lotta stuff like spectrals tho

[hot moss]

true

[raven pier]

since the RNG swings are really high for getting a good skip tag for high score

[mellow echo]

I feel guaranteed Negative should be discounted by 50%.
I would still only rarely take it, but without the discount,
I never take it

[main mirage]

wacky idea: your second starting fool goes up in tarot rank by 1 every time a hand is played

[fierce flicker]

god after all these changes the game feels completely new to me again, I now have no idea what y'all are talking about

[mellow echo]

now that's wacky

[hot moss]

lmao

wacky

[winged pasture]

and you know I love wacky

[floral bough]

saw the mark the first time
face cards being drawn face down is funny

[lapis remnant]

wacky

[main mirage]

skimmed through the tarots and I don't see any abusable strategy so you'll likely still have to play rather normally, meaning adaptive value

[hot moss]

do we have any jokers that could give tags?

apart from cola

[lapis remnant]

not atm idt

[hot moss]

altho that would incentivise skipping even less

[winged pasture]

The double tags are great for that

Because they very strongly incentivize skipping

[fierce flicker]

tags rarely felt worth it to me in the first demo, hoping this one brought them to a more useful level

[hot moss]

yes

[hot moss]

they kinda do

[mellow echo]

The Jokers are so dependent on synergy
that if every shop had 1 Negative,
you would only buy a quarter of them.

That's the problem with the Negative tag.
A Negative Joker never hurts you, but it's not typically worth the cost.

[winged pasture]

but

it's shiny

[hot moss]

yes

[winged pasture]

had you considered that

[main mirage]

I was going to make a suggestion post that negatives are just 2x base cost instead of +10 as a compromise

[hot moss]

you know the pride that comes with having a negative

[mellow echo]

Do you want you Tag meta or not?
I'm just trying to help lol

[winged pasture]

The cost structure can definitely be changed

[winged pasture]

I'm kidding around

[fierce flicker]

new joker edition: polished
no changes to gameplay but god damn does it look great

[hot moss]

'look! i have a joker that gives one joker slot, i am much better than you peasants'

[mellow echo]

Discounted Negative and discounted Poly would be a huge boon to those Tags

[winged pasture]

In general - yeah negative is too expensive

Honestly every edition in every context is too much money

So that is just a general change I should make

[hot moss]

foil has no right being double cost

[tender musk]

I’ll be taking negative skip tag because it’s fun, whether or not it’s good

[hot moss]

ye

[mellow echo]

For who? 😄

[main mirage]

I'm pretty sure every edition is +10 cost right now, yeah?

[hot moss]

no

[winged pasture]

let me see

[mellow echo]

j/k j/k
Negative Blueprint is too aspensive

[hot moss]

i dont think so

[main mirage]

I'm almost certain x2 isn't a thing

[hot moss]

x2 cost?

[main mirage]

yes

[winged pasture]

holo is 7, foil is 4, poly/neg are 10

[main mirage]

that's probably why it looked like x2

[hot moss]

huh ok

[winged pasture]

As in extra dollars

[main mirage]

$4 joker +$4

[winged pasture]

Those are all too much

[hot moss]

ye

+4, +2, +7?????

[winged pasture]

Would you take a holo tag if the joker was FREE

[wicked hamlet]

probably

[hot moss]

ye

[winged pasture]

would you take a poly/negative tag if it was FREE

[main mirage]

I think adding cost is fine for everything not negative. negatives really depend on which joker it's attached to so I think x2 works for that

[hot moss]

ye

[fierce flicker]

yeah

[mellow echo]

Not always
but there exists a scenario

[main mirage]

might still not take negative but poly possibly

[hot moss]

its a free joker!!!!!

[main mirage]

at the cost of a blind

[hot moss]

for free!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[fierce flicker]

i would pay anything for the sweet sweet nectar of more jokers

[main mirage]

u rite it's free

[mellow echo]

I want money tag to pay me after the round, not after the boss

[winged pasture]

Loading up on like 10 random jokers with a bunch of double tags in to negative tags might be an issue

[mellow echo]

free is bad

[fierce flicker]

kids these days, so impatient

[mellow echo]

imo

[main mirage]

yeah pay me to take your jokers

[raven pier]

You could do “discounted price” and just not factor in edition price boost

[winged pasture]

What tags would you sometimes take then?

[main mirage]

OOF skoottie missing the round 1 full house COMPLETELY

[raven pier]

That’s happened to me a million times speedrunning

[hot moss]

orbital

[mellow echo]

idk what they are

[hot moss]

only if its the hand i want

[mellow echo]

hold on hold on

[hot moss]

double

[winged pasture]

I always take double tag if I can but I''m also bad

so I don't know if that is right

[hot moss]

local whats the chance for double tag

[winged pasture]

Same as the rest

1/24

[hot moss]

o rly

[mellow echo]

Someone clip Skootie's stream from this time code:
#🏆・jimbos-invitational message

[fierce flicker]

what's the double tag again?

[wicked hamlet]

24 tags confirmed?

[winged pasture]

here let me snip from the game

it's quicker

[mellow echo]

sure

actually yeah

[hot moss]

i thought the tags had different chances

[main mirage]

one day, we will have a wiki bot

[mellow echo]

24 tags is a lot, my dude. lol
three months ago, we were on "what if every tag was spectral?"

[main mirage]

:3

[mellow echo]

just more information for new players to parse

[raven pier]

Remember when the game didn’t have tags? I watched one of GLUK’s old videos and that was cursed

[mellow echo]

remember when shops didn't have packs?

[winged pasture]

1/3

[hot moss]

could you even skip

[raven pier]

Yes iirc

You just selected which blind you wanted out of the 3

[hot moss]

there were rewards

[main mirage]

I'm only impressed by poly in this list so far

[hot moss]

they were displayed at the boss section

[main mirage]

there's others I would rarely take

[mellow echo]

ouch!

[oblique narwhal]

How many joker in the new demo?

[winged pasture]

2/3

[raven pier]

I would also go for Rare and Investment usually, maybe Boss if the boss was anti-synergetic with my build

[main mirage]

coupon tag is somewhat impressive

[winged pasture]

3/3

[main mirage]

that one caught my eye on stream

[raven pier]

Juggle and D6 are also very tempting

[mellow echo]

Boss tag being Reroll and not Disable feels bad

[main mirage]

D6 tag looks useful with lots of cash gen

[oblique narwhal]

How many joker is in this update?

[main mirage]

and economy maybe

[hot moss]

at least 1

[wicked hamlet]

is there 2 ethereal tags??

[raven pier]

Orbital is also a sometimes

[raven pier]

known bug

[main mirage]

so poly, coupon, d6, and economy. the others I'm not impressed enough to take other than rarely

[raven pier]

This was the first tag on the first stream and I pointed it out

[main mirage]

although I would be more thorough in testing them

[mellow echo]

How does Orbital choose?

[raven pier]

random

[hot moss]

its randomised iirc

[winged pasture]

It randomly selects

[main mirage]

I assumed random, but shows you

[mellow echo]

oof

[winged pasture]

But you know before you click

[raven pier]

Do Secret Hands count? Does that change an already-viewed Orbital?

[winged pasture]

So input randomness - not output

[raven pier]

I think someone said they saw Orbital change during a run

[hot moss]

it should do most played imo

[main mirage]

it's kind of output. you miss a better skip tag

[winged pasture]

I specifically didn't want to do this

Orbital was meant to be good but potentially a pivot

[hot moss]

oh yeah that makes sense

[raven pier]

The issue is that 3 is weak for some hand types

Maybe 2 and most played or 4-5 and random?

I do like Orbital as it is though

[wicked hamlet]

i feel like 3 is pretty reasonable

[winged pasture]

by input/output this is what I mean:

• INPUT: random event > decision > result
• OUTPUT: decision > random event > result

[main mirage]

"raise [poker hand] level to be equal to your most played (minimum +2 levels)"

[winged pasture]

Output would be like Wheel of Fortune

[tender musk]

Why does standard tag not give a mega pack? That doesn’t seem like one I’ll ever take if it’s a regular pick-one pack, even if I’m playing for fun rather than optimising

[mellow echo]

Suppose Orbital just let you pick which Planet.
+3 is where I start to consider taking it.

If it's not the desired Planet, +3 to random is not strong enough for me to consider pivoting
even in Ante 1

[winged pasture]

Yeah it should

[tender musk]

Swag

[winged pasture]

Isn't that even worse?

You skip and potentially get a horrible set of planets

Wheras you don't need to skip if there is a bad orbital poker hand

[tender musk]

Buffoon and spectral packs I can see as a pick-one rather than pick-two for a skip, but might be better as jumbo for more options

[mellow echo]

so it's a tag you take less than 5% of the time
(because you only take it half of the time when it's the desired one)

if the pick rate is so low, why have it in the pool and not just a blank?

[winged pasture]

It's a good question

[tender musk]

I like orbital conceptually, I’m still thinking on practically

[winged pasture]

I do have an answer but it might be wrong - it's a design question though.

I did it that way because skipping should be a <50% of the time action

How much less than 50%?

[raven pier]

I just think it should be buffed a bit

[main mirage]

I would say 25% maximum

once every 2 antes

is pushing it

[winged pasture]

yeah I agree, in my eyes somewhere between 5-15%

[tender musk]

What if orbital gave 3 copies of X planet card? Same end result but better for planet synergies

[main mirage]

maybe 10% too low tho?

[tender musk]

Negative copies maybe?

[raven pier]

Some of the worse [gives you this] in the shop could be buffed to give 2 of them (like foil or uncommon)

[winged pasture]

10% represents skipping 2 times in a full run

That sounds about right to me

[main mirage]

dang

[winged pasture]

It depends on the build

[main mirage]

that's very little payoff for an entire game mechanic

[winged pasture]

The anaglyph deck is waaay more

and the whole reason for adding diet cola means that percentage gets bumped up across the board

[mellow echo]

do we want every one to be about 10% or do we want some to be 5%, some to be 50%,
averaging out to 10% over all 24 (🤮 )?

[winged pasture]

Yes

That was my thought - as long as none are actually 0%

I don't think they all need to be balanced

just in the ballpark

[mellow echo]

sure sure

[main mirage]

the low % ones are unfun

and the high % ones can be too

[winged pasture]

Just hol up though

before we go too far

Isn't it better now?

[raven pier]

Yes

[winged pasture]

Like much better than before?

[raven pier]

Undeniably yes

[tender musk]

Absolutely

[mellow echo]

better, yeah

[winged pasture]

Why?

[mellow echo]

let's not get too excited abotu that tho lol

*about

[winged pasture]

I'm not

[main mirage]

only enough that I'd say it's a step in the right direction

[winged pasture]

I'm trying to analyze

[mellow echo]

I mean everyone else

[main mirage]

it's your design call, but I feel like skip tags would be great if balanced around a 20% pickrate

not quite once every 2 antes. plenty of time between while still being relevant

[raven pier]

Maybe removing some of the “unfun” ones and buffing some of the others would balance it out

[winged pasture]

I think this is a very novel mechanic that I haven't seen in other games and as such has a bunch of pitfalls I can't get around without iteration. I think it has potential to give Balatro a ton of flavour

[tender musk]

the small pool of decks and jokers in the invitational pushing skipping more than it would be in the full game is a factor

[winged pasture]

So I just want to know why the changes improved the system more before I jump to solutions

[raven pier]

It went from wanting to skip 1% of the time to like 10%

Most of the old tags were weak, and chance-based ones were unfun

[tender musk]

many old tags were disappointing more often than they were fun

[main mirage]

is there a world where you're considering removing them for 1.0? it's a pretty huge mechanic to completely throw out a method of roguelike progression for a round for another benefit

[raven pier]

Without tags it would feel so off…

[winged pasture]

As is - I consider it a net positive

It's a strategic layer that makes the game not feel as linear

[main mirage]

maybe it's just me, but they don't feel anywhere near polished enough to be added and that detracts from the game to me

having an unpolished mechanic can be a negative even if you can choose to ignore it when playing

[mellow echo]

we got time to polish, tho
and I agree (with the rest of the class) the "unique feel" is a net positive

[raven pier]

They definitely do need rebalancing but I wouldn’t say they detract from the game

[main mirage]

like I said maybe just me then lol

[tender musk]

i really like tags conceptually

[mellow echo]

I want to like them so bad

[main mirage]

might be a good poll though. "how do you feel about tags as a system/idea"

because although I may be a minority I might not be the only one

[winged pasture]

If I imagine the game without any tags at all, I feel like that makes the overal arc of a run less compelling

It didn't have tags at one point

Acutally we had a 300 person beta without tags

[mellow echo]

Even though I didn't interact with tags in the Sept demo
it felt good that they were there

[tender musk]

i think the main problem with having tags be a system you don't interact with most of the time is that its disappointing (unfun) to see them every single ante and think "nope, no tags again"

[main mirage]

this mostly represents my feelings on it

[mellow echo]

so very prevalent for such a low pick rate

[raven pier]

20-25% is a good balance and is probably where they should go

I think even the WORST ones should be like 10%, and the weaker ones are not in that range

[tender musk]

that feels right to me at first glance, one skip every other ante

[mellow echo]

What's the target appearance rate and pick rate for Jokers (for comparison)?

[mellow echo]

1 in 4, yeah, as the target

[winged pasture]

That depends a lot on when you see the Jokers

Tags, not as much

[main mirage]

im gonna write an essay, one minute

[tender musk]

i love reading balatro essays

[winged pasture]

So - I think I can outline the problem better:

• Some tags are good enough that you at least consider them when you see them, some are close to 50% take
• Most tags are not compelling enough, 10% or less
• too many tags are almost NEVER take and when you see them you become conditioned to not want to interact with the mechanic at all

[tulip pebble]

I rarely touched tags in the last demo because skipping a whole round of income and a whole shop is a lot

[mellow echo]

especially the last one, as CC articulated, yeah

[lapis remnant]

yeah for the last demo the only tags I really took were spectral and 15 bucks

[tender musk]

the tags that give a reward for only a single blind are the worst offenders imo

[mellow echo]

and only spectral for $20 lol

[lapis remnant]

that issue is probably partially fixed with getting rid of 1 in x percentages but remains to be seen ofc

tags are still a variable aspect

[winged pasture]

And for min max the equation is even more tilted towards not taking the tags because - although they can be more fun than facing another blind - that doesn't matter for minmax (therefore higher difficulties) and tags are taken even less

[lapis remnant]

I mean if you're set on playing a certain way from the beginning tags aren't gonna matter much

and that's ok because a lot of people don't play like that

[winged pasture]

Okay so how about this for a change (hypothetical, just one example)

Instead of the handy tag giving +3 hands for a round, what if it gave you +1 hand permanently?

Is that waaaay too much in the other direction?