Fam's help thread

[slim hatch]

he's nuker to kill laika, right?

haha I usually use stella to deal with laika

[primal salmon]

Not a nuker. Multihitter.

[slim hatch]

laika nuke...

[primal salmon]

You don't have to nuke Laika

Laika can survive and the comp still works just fine

This is basic #1412105543967047680 stuff. You're manipulating the AI. The only monster that will take any damage whatsoever is Kunite in that comp.

You might want to re-read the beginner PvP thread and refresh your memory on stuff like AI manipulation. These are really bad defenses if you understand the basics on how AI targets in this game.

[slim hatch]

but we use liam here for hitting laika right?

and he usually just die so yeah I think it'd fair I call it "nuke"

[primal salmon]

you're missing the point

It doesn't matter if you're killing Laika or not.

Laika could be built ultra tanky and not die in 3 hits from Liam. Then Liam is no longer a "nuker"

But the comp will still work as long as Liam is on destroy and built reasonably well.

[slim hatch]

got it

how about other basic bruiser?

like say a vigor?

[primal salmon]

Vigor can work fine, sure.

[slim hatch]

sure alr

[primal salmon]

I just picked Liam because he has a billion hits on his S3 and more multihits on his S2, so he can kill Laika faster.

[slim hatch]

how is liam as a general water damage?

[primal salmon]

We don't build monsters for general purposes. that's not a thing.

We build monsters for specific teams against other specific teams.

You build Liam for this particular team, not for "general water damage"

[slim hatch]

let me recheck beginner pvp for this

then what do we call this list?

hmm maybe general dd is not a good word, but maybe sth like: bruiser?

nah not that word I'll just keep general dd

I'm studying honestly, fr this new beginner pvp teach me a thound things I didn't know reading the older one

biggest reason for siege returning

[slim hatch]

light vamp is fcking op

[reef fog]

that thing Jayke said about Talc being bad against Dominic I agree with and I also agree with the thing jx said about Talc being good vs multihits it's just dominic is an exception

I agree with Jayke when he says we build X unit for X particular team but I also agree with building general damage dealers on this list

There's a bit of nuance

I think the idea Jayke wanted to get across is that you only build monsters to vs a specific comp, and the list is just a nice place to look

[thorn spruce]

there isnt really a point of repeating things that were already said by saying 'I agree with ..'

its just confusing and floods the thread

[brisk swift]

This is 🧢

Talc is one of the only good dom tanks in the game and is arguably the second best one

Rina and talc are both good

[marble lance]

context is important

or rather, the entire teams involved

this was the specific hit in question

talc is a good tank versus dom. however he needs the correct support

this team is very bad. but not really for the reasons jayke mentioned

there's 2 things wrong here

1 - you're not playing the correct elements. enemy has a wind threat, and aoe strip + def break. if you use water wind wind, your wind units can get def broken and then that means dom can kill them

this is a very basic part of beginner pvp that you didn't understand or apply correctly here

and probably why everyone is tired of trying to help you

did you think that because wind is strong against water, that they can't get def broken? again there is an entire section of the guide with a detailed example hammering on this point that you can't think this way

the correct way to do this is talc + 2 fire. that way if the fire gets def broken, dom still won't target the fire

2 - i mentioned talc needs proper support - riley is not a good healer for talc

riley only cleanses 1 debuff at a time, and it's only on her s3 which has a cd

look at dom's kit

it's full of debuffs including heal block

it's very easy for talc to take a billion debuffs, and then you can't get rid of them, and you can't heal talc. so while talc will be able to tank a few hits, you have no actual sustain for him

the correct way to beat this using f2p bruiser units from the guide is khmun racuni talc

rina would have also worked like scarlet mentioned

[slim hatch]

oh that's kinda ouch

but I'm really trying to be smarter and smarter every time

ty for all your advice

and if yall don't want to pointlessly helping someone you don't like, I totally respect that and I won't post anything here, siege related at least

but if yall still think I can be smarter over time and that I honestly can play this game properly also lemme know, I really want to play proper siege for once and your help walked me a long way

[reef fog]

hey man I'm not that good but I like you a lot and would be more than happy to talk stuff over with you in here if you still wish it

I think it's good to discuss stuff still

don't quit!

[slim hatch]

I don't quit I just want to make everything alr

remember advisors aren't paid they help when they want to

[marble lance]

ping less please, don't use it to reply to an active conversation

if people want to help they'll help

[slim hatch]

possibly the most notable lost

[slim hatch]

6 w

[dusty root]

Do you want help with those wins?

Or what are you looking for?

[slim hatch]

yeah

I don't post 3 other L because I kinda figured out why I L

[dusty root]

You won

there's not much to help you with

[slim hatch]

but recently some of my W was "wrong W"

for example this one

this can make me L if I was unlucky

so identify how legit my W is what I want

[sacred kelp]

didnt jx explain that one already though?

[slim hatch]

yeah so which is why this is the kind of help I'd love to get

that blown my mind and helped me think better b4 every siege

like this one, b4 I fight I figured that byung won't attack me even if I got def broken on fire units (which I got), and not on rina

tanking just chandra is much easier than tanking both chandra and byung

[slim hatch]

is there any problem with my W?

can I get a "good job u improved"

[marble lance]

I can nitpick at every single win

But how much info can you absorb

(Not you specifically)

[slim hatch]

...

wut?

[marble lance]

After doing this for decades I learned it’s much better for learning

[slim hatch]

but yeah nitpick for me, I'd love to

[marble lance]

To just focus on the losses

The only reason why I chimed in on that earlier hit

Was because there was discussion on it with multiple higher leveled players saying things I disagreed with

[slim hatch]

I don't think I get this down but ok for this u want me to also share my loss?

and yes pls nitpick me

[marble lance]

I’m trying to say it’s a waste of time

I don’t even like to nitpick bad wins from my own guildies

[slim hatch]

ok

but in general was I doing a good job?

[marble lance]

If you win and it felt good then it’s fine

[slim hatch]

the L

r1 should have been wind pumpkin+2 fire

and regarding the fire, I think racuni is like the only autonomous cleanser here, lala 2a won't work against lami

and khmun for damage should be fine

or tesa

yeah tesa can deal with wind ruid

r2 klo told me that and I'm not even sure how it worked but I got help so I follow help anw

then it's just pointless after I snipe giselle

r3 again tanking both byung and moore should be scarier than just tanking moore

camilla+2 fire here

as for support, hmm it's pretty hard to deal with dark mage, they also have stripper so harmonia won't work

dupe racuni then

a tanky enough carc can be the dd

r4 I really need a light tank and yeah light string isn't good

maybe light vampire?

[slim hatch]

strictly turn 2

and I think I'll hit c3 at this rate

the problem with standard draft is my box, which is too weak for anywhere higher

and yes this turn 2 playstyle is too susceptible to cleave and hard cc

but overall good result

[slim hatch]

can I julie this?

[slim hatch]

can I be educated about leo and kaki's role in fat lushen ao?

[stable flare]

Leo Lushen team is less useful now but was basically an option if you either raced with topset dova against TL or own a wolyung

Nem Kona also existed but isn't recommended unless you know exactly what you're doing with it

Kaki is a cleanup option for fire units on defenses, he also doesn't need to crit so he's good into Kinki

[slim hatch]

got it ty!

and well I have a shared nem set for both kona and megan

I can try that

[stable flare]

I wouldn't mess with it. It's not super reliable and really easy to mess up since it relies on you and the enemy both lining up correctly.

[slim hatch]

slightly better at 7 W now

[unique parrot]

You'd need something around 20% DMG dealt on wind to Lushen the average Byung, unless it's a HP/HP/HP Byung, then you can't kill.

[warm sentinel]

?dontsnipe

[reef pawn]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/111620344564965376/1335006876198375486/image.png?ex=679e998a&is=679d480a&hm=7054ed64dfd58634f85d3a9fb03a726d1f68981bf66b9c01d9e60e9e4a2704fb&=&format=webp&quality=lossless

[thorn spruce]

you can never rely on killing a byung with lushen

[unique parrot]

I don't remember saying it was reliable?

[warm sentinel]

Dont give shit advice pls

[unique parrot]

My bad, I forgot to clarify that it's not recommended either way. QwQ

[hexed sail]

he didnt even lushen vs byung?

[marble lance]

You’re cooking too many cleaves that don’t make sense

Also reread the julie section. You’re not using her correctly. It’s a speed contesting cleave vs fast squishy defs. You can’t use it against tanky defs

[slim hatch]

yeah just asking, I decide that I won't

[slim hatch]

are you talkin abt me or that guy b4?

oh it's abt me haha

yeah the 2 lost other than julie was me asking my guildie

against the fiona chilling agrius def I think I can use darion windy vigor

ah not windy

uhm

wind string?

nah I think I can revive

iunu

[marble lance]

This is why it’s important to join a good guild

[slim hatch]

same guild with pyo

I'm still one of its weakest member

[marble lance]

What is this supposed to mean

[slim hatch]

u know pyo?

[marble lance]

Yea but he’s an idiot

[slim hatch]

oh...

[slim hatch]

anw can I use iunu to deal with that offense disguised as def?

[marble lance]

You can’t use iunu into fire dd

[slim hatch]

hmm lemme remember

how do I survive that

yeah I think darion wind string vigor is usable here

so chilling buff, then fiona s3 which trigger wind string passive, she can tank agrius

[slim hatch]

is that alr?

for the jaara one again I still think it's usable cleave, just me failing to snipe

and if I want to do it slow honestly it can be really hard

all 3 of them have def break on whoever they attack

so having a dedicated light tank + 2 water is dangerous here

hmm I think I can try having perma immunity, using fran delphoi vigor like in beginner pvp?

upgraded into amelia delphoi then maybe skogul on destroy is alr

for tarnisha zenitsu, yeah it's suck

but I think I won't die yet if I have enough immunity, so a tractor on will, then a lala so tarnisha can't steal immunity, then lastly someone who deal fire dd that isn't relying on passive like ashour

[slim hatch]

is that alr

hope the sign of improvement is enough that u won't drop me

[slim hatch]

another 7-3 this time, eventually I'll get 10

[sacred kelp]

you know this is #1047269577614164098

post yoyr hits that youre not sure about or what you struggled with

you cant be just posting them and not explaining behind your losses

[slim hatch]

ah ok ok

so

about r6 the leah one I think it's alr just rune issue that I can't kill his byung

r3 was dumb he was tanky af

maybe I can try to bruiser and jjust straight up tank anubis?

main problem should be tian lang def break

oh and dark anubis has brand

fuck that

[slim hatch]

how do I bruiser that def?

last L

[dusty root]

You could probably just Hyanes Homu Verad that TL defense

[slim hatch]

no verad

I picked amber instead

and aiming for lamiella this event

[slim hatch]

or maybe I can use f2p version?

you know the tyron robo team but with hyanes instead of one robo?

[slim hatch]

I still think I could have leah that tbh

[dusty root]

Don't Leah a byung

that's a bad idea

[slim hatch]

alr then it's a no then

I leah byung a lot in arena that's why I tried

but yeah now I think if that one have shield on I'm really fucked

[sacred kelp]

isn’t that just dias +2 fire? for the TL one

remember the basic siege targetting

[sacred kelp]

why was shamann not 2a’d

[slim hatch]

tell me more abt dias

like ok he'll take tian lang def break

then everyone will start target him

dias doesn't have reduce damage against non fire

isn't it better to use chacha and s3 dark anubis?

[slim hatch]

ran out of griffon

[sacred kelp]

oh dias’s passive doesnt work on himself, my bad. this is why I’m not best at giving siege advice

but two fires will make byung be guaranteed to target the third one. i don’t know if I’d use chacha

[slim hatch]

still better than dias ig

or maybe we use jultan?

then stack 2 fire support?

a crit built harmonia might help, she scale with spd

lastly I guess a lala because aoe brand scary

[brisk swift]

the one with thebae?

[sacred kelp]

yeah

thebae is definitely a threat but I don't think he does that much damage

[brisk swift]

he hurts!

in this case you have branding potentially causing retargetting

while dias does reduce crit chance... that doesn't affect byung!

[sacred kelp]

yea I just realized, that's why I backtracked

[brisk swift]

so even if you don't get the retargetting.. byung with def break + brand is major bonk

[slim hatch]

new siege

anw for this one

I think fire bruiser to get irene

then water tank for shahat

then wind support

hmm

carc riley tractor?

then I just simply start killing shahat then keep platy cced

carc can snipe to threat

[brisk swift]

if hyanes isnt available, my recommendation would be to double snipe this with adriana + bethony +1 speed tuned speed sniper (so, for example, in this case you could do sonia/tirsa/rigna, or if you don't have either of those you can do agrius but it's a bit scarier), you run bethony ~+170. you kill the swift threat (tian lang) and then snipe byungchul with bethony. normally sniping byungchul is ill advised but -dark byungchul is basically nonexistent

[slim hatch]

I do have hyanes tho

just not verad

[sacred kelp]

there's no def break

literally send whatever

[slim hatch]

rina or talc?

[brisk swift]

nah this def actually kinda has hands

vero talc racuni is the standard line with 0 speed talc

[sacred kelp]

what makes this def tough?

[brisk swift]

it's not hard

you just need to know this line

shahat isn't reliant upon def breaks to deal nonsense amounts of damage

it's deceptive

shahat is a diabolical unit

you can also khmun adriana rigna

[sacred kelp]

yea but if you can cleanse i don't think it's a major issue

[brisk swift]

no it's not the does

dots**

sec

let me show you

[sacred kelp]

[brisk swift]

camilla is a hard unit to kill right

[sacred kelp]

mhm

[slim hatch]

shahat block heal

thhere just isn't a wind racuni or wind tetra

[brisk swift]

i just told you how to hit it dude

come on

[sacred kelp]

i did warn you to not listen to me

[slim hatch]

I already fight after this...

[sacred kelp]

we trust scarlet

[brisk swift]

if you've ever used camilla before you should see how crazy this is

you want 0 crit against camilla so i messed that part up

but

you see how fast she dies?

[sacred kelp]

wait that's lowkey disgusting

[brisk swift]

yes

[sacred kelp]

her S1 did so much damage

[brisk swift]

this unit is absolute bullshit

[sacred kelp]

and it wasn't even a crit

[brisk swift]

yes

it actually does more to cami when it doesnt crit

so

this unit does insane damage

[slim hatch]

vero racuni water tank

[brisk swift]

its like

imagine miles

i just told you how to hit it fam i don't know what ot tell you man

[marble lance]

why do you want 0 speed talc

[brisk swift]

you dont want to take turns to decrease the dot duration

you want vero to keep cycling as much as possible

[slim hatch]

irene never swift right?

oh wait even if it does

yeah ty I'll snipe this even if my swift is shit

[brisk swift]

did you not see what i wrote above?

what

i'm so confused

here let me show you again

one second

[slim hatch]

no rigna

[brisk swift]

maybe it was too hard to read because i was talking about something else

[slim hatch]

can tirsa work?

[brisk swift]

.

[slim hatch]

yeah I'll do it

[brisk swift]

you need destroy on vero

so vio destroy on crate

[marble lance]

i guess that's ok too, i always went with just regular support tank build on talc

i've lost on beginner account more than once to racuni dying

[brisk swift]

i'm sure it works well too =)

[slim hatch]

this one I think is rather easy

really suspect that one is a swift vigor but still I think kunite can deal with him

[marble lance]

good luck...

[slim hatch]

wait is that good

like really am I smart or dumb?

[brisk swift]

when a friend of mine had mapped this out he had developed it with the idea in mind that even if racuni spends a large amount of time in the bag, with 0 speed talc, you're still getting so much cycling with vero that you end up disrupting the offense enough to get him out of the bag

i'm not sure if it's better than normal support talc

i've only ever done it with 0 speed

[marble lance]

i'll try it

[brisk swift]

and of course you dont want any res on talc

because you gotta get this silly guy to land his dots on you!

[slim hatch]

triana eshir kunite ok?

or delphoi instead triana because dark four arm?

[marble lance]

dude the def can be a 2 man def of fiona vigor

and i would never think

"this def i think is rather easy"

[slim hatch]

I never said that did I

[reef pawn]

harmonious_fawn_95361

[Message Link](#1239238497420836994 message) to #1239238497420836994
this one I think is rather easy

Req. by scarlet_roses. Quote from · Dec 18, 2025, 5:14 AM

[slim hatch]

oh sr

yeah I did said that

but since u did tell me gl I tried it anw

Imma try to shut down four arm first

[marble lance]

you don't have a choice lol

[slim hatch]

I lost

should have been another wind

instead of eshir

[slim hatch]

but at least pls tell me was it good enough for thinking

that you didn't straight out tell me I'm stupid

[marble lance]

kunite is good but eshir doesn't make sense, i think you misunderstand eshir

and you probably don't understand triana either

[slim hatch]

I did it anw

I put triana on slot 4 cr to finish things skogul didn't kill

then try to keep the only stripper there on provoke

[slim hatch]

educate me abt that pls

I rewatch to see if I was wrong in anw but honestly I find my performance kinda alr?

[brisk swift]

triana is not great when she is the only unit sustaining a defense. it's too hard for her. she doesn't heal much. her passive is not very effective against unit with multihits. all 3 units on this defense kill through her passive

[slim hatch]

yeah that kinda make sense

[brisk swift]

double wind fire does not actually funnel the defense break, because vritra will force you to def break yourself

what jx said is true

basically any defense that is fiona vigor is going to be extremely dangerous

[slim hatch]

so this one should have been where I start using anti def break like windy?

[brisk swift]

this is a defense above your pay grade

it's not worth explaining

you're at the "learning how to beat seara orion perna" phase and this is a deep tournament level phase defense

[slim hatch]

so I should have skip this and just start hitting weak things?

[brisk swift]

fiona vigor is really hard

[marble lance]

the thing that bothered me the most is that you thought this was an easy def

that shows you just have never even fought this kind of def before

and despite what scarlet said about this being a tournament level def

of course you'll see it everywhere still

[brisk swift]

indeed

[marble lance]

i dont understand how you can be trying to play this game so long

yet still seem so inexperienced

this has nothing to do with knowing strategy or anything

i mean you just see a def in siege, try to attack it, get completely wtf rofl stomped

it just takes one time

to be really, really, scared of these units

[slim hatch]

my bad

[marble lance]

i dont know what we're doing here to be honest

[slim hatch]

this is like my 3rd siege so yes I'm still inexperience

[marble lance]

how is this your 3rd siege

[slim hatch]

3rd siege since I start absorbing new beginner pvp

[slim hatch]

sometimes I got benched

there're certain monday and thursday that I can't play

so yeah it's basically like 3rd, wait maybe 4th, real siege

[slim hatch]

but it's true that I'm inexperienced

I did went from 6-4 to 7-3

aiming for 8-2 this siege

[slim hatch]

how zit

use pure tank is pointless when she can just oblivion

so I stack multiple sustain

is this thing cleaveable?

I just fear swift ophilia

or I'll bolv this

[marble lance]

you can bolv it

[slim hatch]

yeah nobody there stopping me from bolv

[slim hatch]

bolv amelia windy?

[slim hatch]

last one

[slim hatch]

this one is where I geniuely have no idea

it's anti cleave with eshir, it has aoe brand

I'm considering vero shamann +1

byung?

[merry star]

This is the second time I have personally seen you ask for advice about how to hit a particular siege defense and then completely ignore the advice you are given. You are wasting everyone’s time that tries to help you when you do that. If I see it again, you’re getting bonked from #1047269577614164098 . You of all people should know better

[slim hatch]

wait don't misunderstand

I mean I fight right after alr told me that

that's why I didn't read scarlet's advice

ofc I'm not dumb enough to show my self cooked offense getting jumped

[slim hatch]

here

[sacred kelp]

yeah but you've been here long enough to know I normally don't give advice for siege, and scarlet interrupted me like immediately

[slim hatch]

not my fault Ig, I don't lurk around to stalk u

[slim hatch]

in hyanes verad homie siege off
what if hyanes miss more than one strip?

[thorn spruce]

you use dhomie s2 on the highest prio target to be cc’d

aka cleansers or the unit that disrupts you the most

[sacred kelp]

the turn order is hyane dhomie verad yea

[thorn spruce]

if you proc you can also strip with dhomie s1

[sacred kelp]

normally its hyanes s3 dhomie s2 verad s3

[slim hatch]

I c

ty

I've seen g2 g3 guys using hyanes wind robo then homie btw

may I ask why isn't that recommended

[sacred kelp]

that’s a poor version that doesnt use verad i think, but ive never heard of wind robo

the advantage with verad is that his s3 doesnt glance with a def condition

so def break makes it very easy to meet

[slim hatch]

turn order for that team is hyanes robo then instantly homie

we have 2 strip so very likely you won't get fcked

u deal damage through artifact

so yeah it's the poor man version but if it works I still think it's deserve mentioning

I also tried that last wgb

work but just g1 so I can't make wild claim

[thorn spruce]

do u have gany or sagar

[slim hatch]

I have both

[thorn spruce]

u can use hyanes gany sagar

or hyanes wind robo gany/sagar

wind robo > hyanes > sagar/gany

hyanes > sagar > gany

turnorder

[slim hatch]

ty

gany is better than homie if u don't need sstrip right?

[thorn spruce]

yeah

well no

just

here specifically

[slim hatch]

can u tell me why?

like gany have additional cc and instant cooldown reset, sagar will do it twice

also against 4* def can I use woochi instead of homie and gany?

[slim hatch]

oh no need

lemme guess

[thorn spruce]

yes

[slim hatch]

is that because you also want to reset hyanes who lengthen debuffs and have damage?

[thorn spruce]

piloting always depends on what happens

who to use gany s2 on etc

[silent lance]

Verad (Water Dragon)

Wikia

3. Absolute Zero

Attacks all enemies with an attack that deals damage proportionate to your Defense to freeze them for 1 turn and sets their Attack Bar to 0. Glancing Hits won't occur if the enemy's Defense is half or less than your Defense. (Reusable in 5 turns)

Levels

Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Damage +10%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

5.0*{DEF}

Neg. Effects

Decrease ATB
Freeze (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[thorn spruce]

dont use this into fire units btw

[slim hatch]

so this dude is 4 turn cd and have cc on s2 as well so he never have to use s1 when u use dhomie

[silent lance]

Sagar (Wind Slayer)

Wikia

3. Great Sword of the End

Attacks the enemy to remove all beneficial effects and sets the enemy's skills on max cooldown time. Afterwards, attacks all enemies to decrease their Attack Bar to 0 and provokes them for 1 turn. (Reusable in 6 turns)

Levels

Damage +15%
Cooltime Turn -1

Multiplier

4.0*{ATK} x2

Neg. Effects

Decrease ATB
Remove Buff
Increase Cooltime
Provoke (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[thorn spruce]

he does use s1

but verad is bis

[slim hatch]

while sagar doesn't

[thorn spruce]

verad is better

[slim hatch]

got it

[thorn spruce]

were doing budget

[slim hatch]

why isn't feng vela aaliyah counted in bruisering team?

like is that a general purpose defense that is usable against a lot of things?

[sacred kelp]

its mentioned in ?siegeoff

the bruisering only considers f2p stuff

[slim hatch]

yeah got it

how do I reliably deal with tarnisha sav figaro

[steep solstice]

Haegang comps work well into that defense

[thorn spruce]

omg rain

[steep solstice]

I’m lost idk how I got here

[marble lance]

what exact haegang comp would you use

[steep solstice]

Feng aaliyah Haegang

[marble lance]

[steep solstice]

You can prob get away with the classic Haegang comp but that one is a lot better

Premium though

[warm sentinel]

ye i use that aswell

[slim hatch]

does haegang into dot work?

like baretta haegang nora, usin same rune in ?dotao?

cuz no feng

[slim hatch]

what are some common siege bruisers who can run 100 res and when exactly should I do that?

I can see feng as it's mentioned in guides

but other than that I can only see it's those with res awake

anavel come into mind

[slim hatch]

how is water aya/nobara into dotao arena?

[reef fog]

I don't think it would because you want to be able to renew immunity so you can keep using haegang's passive into tarnisha

[slim hatch]

which is haegang louise + dotter

so yeah

haegang louise nora

[steep solstice]

I’ve seen it before it’s not terrible

[slim hatch]

ok

[slim hatch]

I want to ask a bit abt your rta guide

So as you taught I should draft standard turn 1 first against similarly standard turn 1, and if we fight against someone who clearly commit to turn 2, adjust immediately

But why tho, like if standard vs turn 2 is worse than turn 2 vs turn 2, why go for standard

Wouldn’t going for turn 2 will also make your opponent switch to turn 2?

[marble lance]

you're not going for turn 2 vs turn 2

you're still going for units that can outspeed the turn 2

except instead of drafting units that get you turn 1 but then do not much else like eshir

you can draft units that get you turn 1 but also are a lot more devastating to the turn 2 player like irene

[slim hatch]

ye I should have asked abt these sooner

so lemme look at the match again

this match you race turn 1 and because you intend to cc with tyron you need strippers to enable him. then because you already have 2 spd lead, 2 stripper, 2 cc (haven't count vero who is also a softer cc), you pick a counterpick support to counter him. I have the issue with my oliver sekh draft that I lack chandra/miles/water byung to set up the cc core like nuparu said b4 and it was pretty much a reason why I drop oliver for pure bruiser style.

this match however while you still race for turn 1 you figure out that ethna is someone who can be countered verde (even if she's like shi hou can only disable one unit I thought about wind robo again first, yet he already pick vaness who is fire so can't wind robo won't be good into this). what make me a bit questioning is antares tho, there's not a lot of auto vio option like giou there and masha can take him down rather quickly while miles keep him cced, it's not like his passive is something to be relied on

this match I can see that you pick verde and racuni who even if got hit by veronica can survive just fine. I'm still a bit questioning about you still picking vero tetra into his dark gojo as if you really commit to banning him no matter what his last pick is. but what if he see that and pick light desert queen or wind justice instead?

and this match u see him picking fire monkey and just go on full turn 2. (also idk why he pick wind hunter there, basically dead pick when u already have 2 fire)

as someone who restricted myself to turn 2 yes I also realize it actually harm me so much, I got cced a lot by stupid shit like layla haegang tomoe

I also play around the haegang into anavel+ashour, intending to mostly pick light vampire as last slot, so a lot of match where they pick my haegang I just dunno what to do

[atomic nacelle]

:flag_vn: [ZRD]★Everius (id: 12164375) RTA Statistics (Regular Season only)

⚠️ Stats are not 100% accurate ➡️ The very last battle is not included in the elo/rank, and people under/around 1300 (C1) elo will have weird stats (missing games, weird winrates) ⚠️

WinRate

41.8 %

Elo

1479

Rank

25436

🏆 Approx. Rank

Matches Played

206

✨ LD Monsters (RTA only)

Loading emojis...

🔥 Most Used Units Winrate

Loading top monsters...

Data is gathered from m.swranking.com

[atomic nacelle]

Error retrieving recent replays: error sending request for url (https://m.swranking.com/api/player/replaylist)

[slim hatch]

can u teach me about these match

[slim hatch]

this siege have one single loss

is this bad team choice or maybe build issue?

tetra got that 2 turn def break and for that 2 turn she got attacked without able to cleanse herself

so eventuallly mihyang got the turn to s2 her

[merry rover]

seems reasonable, probably a build issue

[slim hatch]

pls can I get the explanation regarding these match

truthfully the more I understand the vague idea you wrote, the better I play

for example #1412105543967047680 message this is what I've been lacking before I could hit 9

[reef pawn]

jx9

[Message Link](#1412105543967047680 message) to #1412105543967047680
Final Siege Tips

• The best way to improve in siege is to join a good guild. Be in a guild where you're one of its worst members. Once you become one your guild's best performers, it's time to move up to a better guild. The starting point for siege is G1, that's already the most beginner level there is.

• For a lot more examples and thought process from real hits in G1 siege, check out #1411071380900020396.

• Feel free to start a similar thread of your own in #1047269577614164098 . Analyze your losses and ask for advice on how to hit specific defs you don't know how to deal with. This is also the best way to figure out what to build and work on next. Don't look at your box wondering what monsters may be useful, don't blindly look for more siege teams to build. Look at real siege defs in a real siege map instead (or if there's not an ongoing siege, you can test against your guildies' defs), and see if you have a good counter for it. If you don't, then now you have something to work on and build.

• See ?siegeoff for more common siege teams.

• On defense, aim for quality over quantity. Your goal should be to have 2-3 good defs. 5 defs can be reasonable since you need that many for WGB. But if you find yourself being able to make more than 5 defs that are winning, it's time to move up to a better guild.

• Rune swapping in siege costs no mana so you should take advantage of it. Save your siege runes/artis at the beginning of a siege where your defs and most common offense teams are runed properly. Then during the siege you can swap and borrow runes as needed, and then you can load the runes/artis back when you're done.

Req. by harmonious_fawn_95361. Quote from · Sep 16, 2025, 11:12 PM

[slim hatch]

real example

and explanation behind those example

same with rune guide

[slim hatch]

can I get example build for hyanes verad homie?

@thorn spruce

[thorn spruce]

its hyanes dark homonc homie

[slim hatch]

oh sorry sorry

hyanes verad homie

I'm trying to build hyanes sagar gany for tommorow siege

[ripe idol]

Yeah he means it’s that turnorder

[slim hatch]

dw I got it

can I get the build example

[merry star]

Leaving the server and rejoining to clear the bonk is not cute or clever. I told you we could discuss in a week and you choosing to do this instead does not look good for you. Letting you know you’re one step away from a ban at this point

[slim hatch]

idk I thought you lifted my bonk

was about to say ty

and I'd ty if you allow me to be helped like this

[merry star]

Yeah you can try again but you’re on thin ice

[slim hatch]

for now I want the build idea not any further conflict

[slim hatch]

do u have the build?

I'd love to find them myself but discord search suck

[brisk swift]

85 acc on everything.

Hyanes is on despair. Seal offset is ideal but most people don't have seal runes, so you can go will or broken.

Dark Hom is on Vio, same thing with offsets.

Verad is on Vio, same thing with offsets.

Try to hit at least 310 combat speed on all 3 units. Your units should all be the exact same combat speed. If you can go a bit faster, that is ideal.

If you do not have the runes for Vio/despair, swift is fine too. But if you do that you are going to want to try to get 358 combat speed on everyone.

If you still can't do that, just do swift as fast as you can with the above requirements.

Ideally Verad is SPD/DEF/DEF to minimize the chance of him glancing wind units.

[slim hatch]

ty. but exactly why 310 spd?

like is there a specific reason for that number?

[brisk swift]

You'd like higher but I'm trying to give you realistic speeds for your runes. Most people don't build def that much over tick.

Ideal is closer to 320+

Same reason.

[slim hatch]

got it

[slim hatch]

do u have real stats for better visualization?

and like who do you want to go despair?

since u did mention despair

I think it could be hyanes?

[brisk swift]

Like I mentioned above, Hyanes is on Despair.

[slim hatch]

oh sorry sorrry I misread

I don't actually have verad tho, I just have hyanes sagar gany like I was suggested

but I guess the stat are mostly the same, aren't they?

except for sagar who won't build def like verad

[brisk swift]

Same idea. Make sure that it's Hyanes -> Sagar -> Gany so you have two chances of stripping.

[slim hatch]

got it tysm

[slim hatch]

do u play rta?

[brisk swift]

No.

[slim hatch]

ok tks

[slim hatch]

do you think was this wrong offense or just build issue?

[brisk swift]

The offense is fine. Show your builds.

I would use tetra lead, not kunite lead as well.

[slim hatch]

okey

[slim hatch]

I have both these on 100 res already

[brisk swift]

You change them to 70 instead of 100 and improve your stat spread.

[slim hatch]

I have to rerune before the fight?

[brisk swift]

You can do anything you want. Whenever you use kunite and tetra together, with very little exception, you prefer tetra lead to kunite lead.

[slim hatch]

oh I just mean that, uhm

[brisk swift]

The majority of the time you use tetra you will be using her lead.

[slim hatch]

jx did told me the only thing should be change before fight is left arti

[slim hatch]

I c

[brisk swift]

The majority of the time you are using kunite you will be using tetra.

[slim hatch]

does these look ok?

actually all 3 of them aren't too optimal since I use a common rune for similar monster

[brisk swift]

Bruiser counters are tough because they are higher rune quality requirements

[slim hatch]

for example that vio destroy set on windy is also the one I use for byung, vigor, etc

again sth I take from jx

[slim hatch]

I c

same reason why cleave is actually easier huh

[brisk swift]

You would want to get windy on a bit higher damage. It's hard because he has to be tanky too. Even if it's just a bit of crit rate it helps. Kunite should be on Vio destroy. tetra is really squishy and you are wasting speed on windy + tetra. You don't need to go this much over tick.

[slim hatch]

yeah I can see that

that tetra is using the same rune I use for aaliyah

but I guess I can have 2 seperate for them now?

like one for fast support and one for slower support?

[slim hatch]

yeah I agree with the tetra one

I guess I can just drop the resistance?

because the match end with tetra get def broken by cichlid, then everyone target her and she can't heal back

[brisk swift]

You need 70 res on tetra so she has 100 after lead.

[slim hatch]

got it

tysm I'm reruning everything rn

[slim hatch]

may I ask how should I play this offense?

because I'm testing it unskilled and yes while I can keep everyone cc'ed, I don't have enough damage to kill them

like do I perma CC them for 100 turn until they die?

[reef fog]

Hyanes should be able to kill them all

she does %maxhp damage

[brisk swift]

you're also supposed to be using skilled units

[slim hatch]

yeah I'm just testing

always test with unskilled stuff

farming food mellia rn

[brisk swift]

you can test in the research tower

[slim hatch]

ok so after I cc them all with sagar

who should I reset with gany?

or should I S1?

oh I get it that's defo hyanes

2 turrn provoke

[slim hatch]

how do I beat this def?

[slim hatch]

this siege has 2 loss

and well I think 2 of them is rune issue

for first loss yes theo 1v3 me with a bunch of vio

for 2nd loss theo eventually wear out human form amelia

problem is his ophilia is on invincible and threat so I can't heal consistently

[merry rover]

Did you manage to kill geld?

Might be a piloting thing too

[slim hatch]

yeah it did get into the 1v2 vs theo tho

ophillia has her threat and invincible on so I can't heal her back

that's how I lost that one

[merry rover]

Might be rune issue then, you can show builds and stuff- including artis

[slim hatch]

I win like 4 time in a row until this one

[slim hatch]

do you think aaliyah might be better?

[merry rover]

No

[slim hatch]

ok

[merry rover]

Amelia gives immunity vs low strips

[slim hatch]

I'm still not sure abt this one tho

so I didn't hit

red team hit it and seized the tower

oh also for arena offense

now I have both wind ciri and bethony I guess I can rune up that adriana+2 sniper shit

but first is it worth bothering without jamire or seara to lead?

[merry rover]

You can use something like Oliver to contest if you’re reasonably fast

I would probably just send a preset mihy Adriana ciri at that Giselle

Snipe Giselle and pray

[slim hatch]

I did that and lost

not with rigna but her wind counterpart

same shit, I snipe ciri, mihyang ofc can't kill anything that is built with proper hp and def (it was platy), then I'm screwed

I hope an advisor can help me with this

[slim hatch]

got it

[merry rover]

?

platy is completely different

[slim hatch]

so there's not a tanky enough clara to survive mihyang?

[merry rover]

platy would just res giselle and it's a lot more screwed up than the 2v3 i think

i don't think mihy adriana ciri is great into clara either tbh

but i can't think of anything much better off the top of my head lol

i think juno & diana ideas are somewhat common into giselle but im not sure if either really live consistently here

requesting advisor ngl

for platy tho there's no strip, so you can leverage that

[slim hatch]

@marble lance @brisk swift can you help me pls

[brisk swift]

I will help when I have time, no need to ping me

[slim hatch]

ok

ty in advance

[marble lance]

karl is not going to work, not enough reliable damage. i wouldn't even try it if you have an atk buffed karl. so non atk buffed karl is insane

if you have a leo you can do leo healer + bruiser that has a strip. for example diana, shahat, etc

bolv isn't terrible. but if you want to use bolv teams to have a good chance you need a max skilled bolv, and recommended to use vio bolv instead of regular shield rev will

you can also use aaliyah instead of amelia. aaliyah gives you another source of heal that's not dependent on bolv s3ing someone, which obviously doesnt' work if everything on def has full invulnerability

if you have cami juno can use that with a tractor, gyomei, windy, etc

so basically all the common premium nat 5 siege bruisers are good into it. without anything premium id just skip

cleave wise... praline is even race

some snipers will make 3v1 against theo a bit safer, like second life snipers federica/odin

honestly lushen may not be that bad either

[slim hatch]

ty ty!!

[marble lance]

this really grinds my gears. you don't have to reply individually to 1 item within my list of a million suggestions

and point out that you don't have it

just don't even mention it

i don't expect you to have everything in the game

that is why i gave you a list of many many options

when you say "i don't have something" it's coming off as you being both whiny that you're "unlucky" or something, while at the same time being inconsiderate of all the valid help i am giving you. i don't care if you don't mean it that way, but that's just how it comes off to everyone that tries to help

[slim hatch]

sr abt that, got it

should I update box for that?

[slim hatch]

and I'm actually a bit curious abt this

like you don't really fear a possible swift clara?

[slim hatch]

I was told to avoid racing on equal so...

[reef fog]

yea it's scary he's just pointing it out as an option if you truly can't do anything else he mentioned

[slim hatch]

but lushen is actually legit I think because mihyang/orochi+wind nezuko race real good, I just worried about theo 1v3 everyone but if jx said yes then it's a yes

[slim hatch]

oh and regarding the double snipe ao

is it fine to run psama adriana bethony wind ciri?

I don't have jamire or seara but u did mention other spd lead can be used

or oliver

yeah that dude seems safer he can cc things that aren't sniped

for example against Vanessa Juno Cami Byung I assume you snipe Vanessa then snipe Juno

and afterward reset with jamire and just snipe them again

[slim hatch]

pls help me pin this ty

[slim hatch]

I can't 286 this guy

but I guess I can for vigor, maybe I'll have 2 set for him

[slim hatch]

jx can you teach me a bit about leo tetra roid siege offese?

first, can I use the same +0 spd crit rune I used for helena?

[merry rover]

Oh hm I didn’t suggest bolv cuz I thought you just die to clara Giselle Theo too fast without getting healing off, this is a cool build idea with vio bolv + Aaliyah

[brisk swift]

Revenge on bolverk helps a lot too vs giselle

with the caveat that you can of course get bonked turn 1.. but that can happen anyways

In this case I think you want will but its something worth considering

[marble lance]

can you figure out why this is a bad question

[slim hatch]

how should I ask abt it

like how do I rune it?

I know about full tank 100 res leo and now I'm considering the other 2

show I think it's another 100 res full tank for tetra

and then for roid it's the main concern, he doesn't have reduce damage passive like helena so I'm just confirming should I hp/cdmg/hp him?

[slim hatch]

bro...

whut?

hmm ok I guess this is an exception

not gonna nitpick that

[marble lance]

what's there to nit pick

[slim hatch]

moderate acc on lulu

[marble lance]

you're missing the point of this

[slim hatch]

like I think lala would be actually better since she strip

[slim hatch]

I'm still readin, dw

[reef fog]

I think jx9 meant that you shouldn't try to generalize that offense and instead think about how to respond to specific defenses

[slim hatch]

oh I got it

wait a bit siege is goin on Imma show

[slim hatch]

how do I fight this def?

it's so scary

[reef fog]

can probably tesa vero tetra this

The damage looks scary but I realize there's no defense break so you can probably last for a long time

[silent lance]

Narsha (Light Beast Rider)

Wikia

3. Wild Chase (Passive)

The Attack Speed increases by 20% for each time an enemy gains a turn, up to 5 times. The increased Attack Speed resets when your turn ends. In addition, increases your Attack Speed for 1 turn and decreases the enemy's Defense for 1 turn with each attack. [Automatic Effect]

Pos. Effects

Increase ATK SPD (20%)
Increase ATK SPD (30%)

Neg. Effects

Decrease DEF (1 round(s))

provided by SWARFARM

[thorn spruce]

you will die

[reef fog]

I didn't see the last line mb

this defense is evil may be wise to skip

[thorn spruce]

you skip it and let someone else hit it

dont bother with defs like this, start with simpler defenses

[slim hatch]

yeah I just give up

literally have no way fighting that shit

[slim hatch]

still, is it really unsolvable, like can you tell me how can I beat it?

that tower stood for so damn long nobody beat that

[reef fog]

you would have to experiment and speculate on your own

I think those who do know how to beat it might not be willing to share

[slim hatch]

oh it's got cleared...

[reef fog]

how did your guildmate do it you should be able to see

[slim hatch]

a guildie beat it with velajuel haegang jade

idk why that work

[reef fog]

he gambled and won

[marble lance]

this is a bad attitude and we will work to cut this down here

i really hate the notion of unsolved or solved defs

there's no such thing

any good def that people may considered to be solved can still be built in a way to beat certain offenses

any def that people may considered unsolved doesn't mean that the def is literally unbeatable. maybe someone's idea of "solved" is that they have a 95% wr team against it, but for someone else they may already have a standard 95% wr team against it but their standards are higher so they still consider it unsolved

like maybe if you just send mihyang adriana rigna into it, that beats it 97% of the time which is already really good. but others may considered that still unsolved

there's always going to be certain strategies that people are not going to be willing to share, and that's ok. that applies to everything, not just new or tricky defs

it just shouldn't even be mentioned. and we advisors can still give advice on the newest and trickiest of defs without coming off as gatekeepers of siege tech

all that to say - don't be overwhelmed by this def and just go back to the basics

there's only 1 single target def break on this def. start with a tank for that. then add bruisers/supports in respective elements to disperse the hits from the other monsters on the def

[reef fog]

I think I have an idea

Dias [LEADER + (2xREV)/WILL] Kumar [VIO/WILL] Riley [VIO/WILL] turn order Riley>Kumar>Dias

[stable flare]

dias is extremely sketchy into tarnisha byung imo but it sounds possible to make work

[reef fog]

I don't think I would trust any other dark tank to tank Narsha though ykwim?

Cayde probably is better but

[stable flare]

tanking narsha in the first place is very very difficult

[reef fog]

that guy is premium innit lol

[stable flare]

i wouldnt trust anyone to do it period lol

[reef fog]

True

[thorn spruce]

haegang dots is probably fine

but you know whats better

not hitting it and try hitting something easier

[reef fog]

Play as one of the following:

1. Byung will strip all, Tarnisha will attack Riley, Narsha will attack Dias. If Tarnisha violent procs, she will spread the debuff to Kumar because turn order Kumar>Dias. Kumar doesn't care about silence or oblivion for his oblivion (which is why Tesa is not used here); once he gets his s1 oblivion off, the defense becomes a lot safer to hit. Then, simply reapply will with Riley as there is an 85% chance that Tarnisha moved her to the end of the turn order, which works out for us. The only reason I put her first in the turn order is because of 2).

2. Byung will strip all, then Narsha will defense break and attack Dias. Afterward, Tarnisha will attack Dias and oblivion. If there is cleanse block, cleanse it off with Riley (her s3 should always cleanse off the cleanse block first, the benefit of having her move before Kumar is that if Kumar cleanse first, then he will only take off cleanse block then Riley can only cleanse one debuff, so have Kumar move first), THEN Kumar can easily cleanse off the defense break, oblivion, everything off Dias. NOW, we repeat the first turn but the massive difference is that Byung no longer has strip; he will s1 Riley most likely as Dias was healed by Kumar, but it's ok if he hits Dias too. Then, Narsha will move before Tarnisha when the enemy team moves again. Tarnisha does not have oblivion as she used it, she can only s1 silence. Kumar can collapse their defense with his oblivion easily.

3. If Tarnisha moves before Byung, it is very stupid as she cannot spread her oblivion or silence anywhere, and Riley s1 is good enough not to mention oblivion/silence won't stop Riley's s4 at all. With damage reduction from Dias, she won't lower Riley's hp enough to switch Narsha's targeting. If the defense was in this turn order, you easily win.

Finally, I would be willing to bet the enemy team isn't on 85 acc. Since you are 100 res, if you resist anywhere, it would give you a massive advantage and you will win.

[brisk swift]

85 acc tarnisha is very common

I think haegang dots is fine. This def is hard

[slim hatch]

ty, yes I did tried to bruiser it twice after figuring that out

and uhm, died to rune gapped...

but well it's g2 siege and that guild used to be tourney so

at least I hope I wasn't dumb

[slim hatch]

yeah haegang would help, if only I have 2 haegang

[slim hatch]

yeah but I tried anw

there's no pressure and game is supposed to be fun

I only feel bad if I suck at thinking

[slim hatch]

so this is how I do it

I honestly don't think I have to share replay when it's as simple as narsha eat 60% Chacha's HP, tarnisha obvlion stun chacha which spread to tetra, then byung have a vio to kill it

[brisk swift]

You don't have to hit every single defense

[slim hatch]

gimme a moment I'll share build

[slim hatch]

I know, but it's still fun to try

[brisk swift]

When you say if only I had to haegang.. just skip a defense if you don't feel like you can hit it. Nobody can beat every defense

[slim hatch]

but I think the main problem here might be build

[brisk swift]

It's not

That just isn't a good offense

This defense is very hard to hit safely without some level of premium units

There just isn't really a safe way

[slim hatch]

safest might be haegang no?

[brisk swift]

That's what I just said

[slim hatch]

haegang nora riley?

[brisk swift]

Haegang is a nat 5

You probably just want two dot units but you can try and see what works best for you. Rica/Magnus/bloodya/bellenus/moogwang would be the kind of units you look for

[slim hatch]

baretta seems like my best bet here since he offer spd lead and help me run vio/despair on 286

does he work?

[brisk swift]

no

you keep trying to use him and I'm not sure why

[slim hatch]

I do have bellenus but he's unskilled and honestly I use nora 80% of the time

[brisk swift]

He's not good

[slim hatch]

main reason is still spd lead

[brisk swift]

It's not good, stop using him

Nora is good too. But you need another good unit with her

[slim hatch]

so drop vio/despair to hit 286?

[brisk swift]

Using a bad unit to hit a faster amount of speed tick doesn't make sense

[slim hatch]

I can start skilling bellenus if he's good

[brisk swift]

Just run Vio/despair 239

I would not be recommending a unit to you if it was bad

[slim hatch]

like you don't fear haegang might not be able to boost team enough and cut in?

because I figure out the battle might go like this

tarnisha on swift, she target either nora or bellenus to strip, I'll take nora

after that narsha take the turn and start nuking nora

then it's byung turn who might be 286 vio and strip haegang alongside bellenus, who take a vio then boom erase your nora from the battle

yes you take a turn and bellenus start doing his shit but now it's a 2v3

[brisk swift]

I do understand how siege works

[slim hatch]

that's why I'm a bit confused about vio 239

like if I can't hit it should it be better to 286 swfit?

[brisk swift]

Unfortunately you have to make compromises somewhere. You just said you don't have the rune quality.

[slim hatch]

I do have rune quality for 286 swift with acceptable tankiness

that's ok, right?

[thorn spruce]

you also have the rune quality for vio 239 with acceptable tankiness

make builds and show them

you have to make compromises somewhere like scarlet said, and staying on vio is just more important than staying on 286 tick

[slim hatch]

got it

[slim hatch]

everything undevilled is in orange box

for now I have slightly more attention to siege than rta, don't really play arena in near future

what should be my next devil target after smicer, who is simply really fun to play with and I'd finished devilling her by tommorow

[slim hatch]

how do I deal with this?

[slim hatch]

was this one bad offense or execution/rune?

[slim hatch]

nice update

I now have 2 functional spd lead which I can use properly

really good seeing psama here, I just don't enjoy tomoe that much

[slim hatch]

@brisk swift pls help me delete this thread

ty

[reef fog]

you can delete it yourself if you just right click it on the side

[dusty root]

You want this thread gone?

[slim hatch]

yeah

it's not useful anymore

and it's long enough

should be gone

ty

seems like nobody bother to help me so ty regardless of previous help

I think it's fine to keep the good memory intact

get rid of the bad one