garo draco jaara vs seara orion perna 
#[ARCHIVED] Siege Advice (Starting Season of March 2023)
thin oxide
frozen spindle
garo draco jaara vs seara orion perna <:joe_shrug:1090998640681680900>
oh the extra premium version of garo draco raki 😂
frozen spindle
true
maybe it is just lacking damage then, but also i think the deb teams still fail? so idk
tacit dome
@thin oxide I can consistently counter sop now!!!!
I actually had malaka not die to bomb and then seara proc'd and killed through triana passive
That is actually very smart though. Both counters. Is true. I can even do Karl! Noted for next time I see SOP on my main 😎
thin oxide
karl isn't anti revive
tacit dome
c-close enough
thin oxide
don't worry about losing to sop though there's tons of these "old" defs that don't have any 100% counter
like you'll see them in wgb and even the best players in the best guilds on all servers will still lose to them
fallow sail
garo draco jaara vs seara orion perna <:joe_shrug:1090998640681680900>
OH
did carry get you nitro
Or was it hydra
plucky isle
Isn’t sian safer than malaka
fallen flare
idk I think Malaka is better here
If u miss bomb at least the s3 can save u
if sian misses then he just sits there staring menacingly
revive and then sit there again menacingly
tacit dome
low skill siege
Think everything is fine except #3, #8, #9
#3 was weird. Probably malite lulu vigor is just better here.
#8 my talc got ripped to shreds and I think I only won because of rng
I wanted to galleon tiana cheongpung this but it was pirate captain restricted
I also think riley was pretty bad here
#9 also felt really difficult but i'm not sure if I was rune gapped. I was surprised how hard it was. all three of these monsters are on very high quality runes for my account - i just reruned vigor actually on 286 hp/hp/hp
fallow sail
#9 also felt really difficult but i'm not sure if I was rune gapped. I was surpr...
Next time use khmun Kona covenant/shren
Blow up miles
tacit dome
Hmm. I don't die to carcano after?
tacit dome
Haha
fallow sail
Wrong unit
tacit dome
Susano Konamiya covenant?
tacit dome
Ahh
fallow sail
You need an actual tank for miles
fallow sail
I’ve only ever lost khmun in that 3v2 once
And it involved an absolutely insane miles
tacit dome
That sounds so much simpler
I think I would bring covenant since maybe covenant def breaks shren and kills her
fallow sail
I mean
Just run will on shren
And besides
If carc outspeeds your bird
You dun goofed
tacit dome
Oh wait
I'm still brain mode thinking I am killing miles lmao
You are right, shren is probably best here actually
tacit dome
Plus Louise won't bonk shren :D
No 5 turns in a row kill cov
Haha. In all seriousness though that makes sense. Ty, that is much simpler
vocal blade
Out of curiosity how is the shren built? Is it on a fatshen set, or is it on like 205 tick and damage? I’d assume fatshen set, but I’m not sure
jolly swift
she should be more bruiser focused
thin oxide
not for this counter
jolly swift
i didnt read my bad
fallow sail
not for this counter
Yeah the thing is shren damage isn’t super high so random tanky carcs with random -light can screw you
Esp considering this def will usually have a shield set somewhere
tacit dome
how come we never talk about songseol as a counter to violent scouted geldnir ophilia theomars?
am i thinking too advanced here?
i'm like big noob trying to think of more advanced stuff or what
thin oxide
you mean song + snipe theo?
tacit dome
yeah
like covenant songseol teon, for example
i know geldnir has a 33 lead but I feel like if you're violent scouted you can very safely hit this with proper tuning
dapper barn
Whats a good siege defense that uses roid?
tacit dome
i'd recommend you make your own thread @dapper barn
earnest shore
how come we never talk about songseol as a counter to violent scouted geldnir op...
this defense is almost always planted on a rush tower in terms of siege metagaming
so you generally dont really have time to scout it
you just have to go in and fucking kill it before the other guild does
also requiring scout means the first hit might lose, and in tourney setting people runeswap so scout isn't really useful for more than just gathering intel on what people could be running
hence, relying on scouted offenses leaves you both weak in tournament except as a cleanup / stop the bleeding situation and also prevents you from racing towers in regular season, which sucks
tacit dome
this defense is almost always planted on a rush tower in terms of siege metagami...
I've had a few sieges where it is quite literally only geldnir ophilia theomars
One or two
And they've been scouted, that is why I ask
earnest shore
oh
in that case, yeah then songseol can work, but do keep in mind that if you run low sustain and the opponent is a psychopath or they just proc 29 times on your teon then it can be kinda ugly
thin oxide
like covenant songseol teon, for example
if you want to snipe theo its much easier with karl... just use carc teon karl
with song you can still get outsped by even vio ophilia, and like nup said the 3v2 is not entirely safe either
this is a thread for one specific person
warped raptor
sorry
tacit dome
sorry the image is so big but lots of siege today
the ones with red circles are ones i felt were problems
fallow sail
tacit dome
#2 - This feels very unsafe. I had asked for another suggestion and tried #6, but lost to kinki destroying me. I tried to rune carcano tanky enough but I guess -light is important here. Unsure about other more consistent counters. Maybe just icaru chilling elucia is best.
#8 - I think this one is bad. I am not entirely sure how to fight into narsha but I feel juno would be good. I was thinking about maybe juno leo chacha or something. But it feels like that doesn't have enough damage. Not sure. Even with leo tanking narsha feels extremely dangerous.
#12, #13 - I think this one is workable, but it still felt like it can lose. Not sure. Would like feedback.
#14 - This was very unsafe. I thought it would be safer but I was wrong. Won by the skin of my teeth.
#17 - Very very unlucky, but I don't think I'll be hitting this defense with triana > harmonia agin.
#18 - This was very bad I felt. I think icaru chilling elucia again.
fallow sail
#2 - This feels very unsafe. I had asked for another suggestion and tried #6, bu...
8 you can just use chacha
tacit dome
wait
tacit dome
there's no aoe def break
maybe just carcano chacha triana
pierce through the hug with carc
no wait
there's a nora what am i thinking
jolly swift
dias is amazing into narsha if you have him
tacit dome
Oh yeah. I think I have dias available.
But not sure.
I was trying to find Grego when I was looking lmao
So used to not having dias
civic steeple
there's no aoe def break
narsha s2 can retarget on other units than your tank if they have more dots
vs the clara kinki monte i really like elucia windy tractor, shield vio windy 
. pretty hard to lose a unit t1 and then u sleep kinki and kill monte. got some 2v3 potential too
tacit dome
Hmmm okay. I will test it out
tacit dome
@civic steeple Is the math of this written out anywhere I can find? I don't see it in the ai targeting rationale picture
civic steeple
You mean the narsha stuff?
Not that i know unfortunately, i'm not the math guy
BUt there was a Patch a year ago or so that Made a lot of attaccks scaling with debuffs have smart ai
Even going as far as to let sav s2 target fire units with like 3 debuffs, ignoring a water unit with 0
tacit dome
That is actually very interesting
I wish I knew the math
But that actually makes that defense so much more dangerous to tank out
civic steeple
Yup that's why i would find it very hard to t2 in theory
Cuz narsha can just say fuk u t1
tacit dome
I will have to learn how to be a turn 1 player 
civic steeple
Well t2 options coming to my mind are dias camilla +1 (Was it tetra or is that 1am cope???) And just vero leo juno
tacit dome
I have a random question. Does resistance do anything with despair? No interaction ,right?
errant ore
u cant resist despair
quartz crescent
I have a random question. Does resistance do anything with despair? No interacti...
No interaction
tacit dome
we play for wrng next season
earnest shore
good luck mate, immatx is a pretty decent lead and kaito can help ya with counters you might not know
tacit dome
I'm not entirely sure what the future of Therion siege advice is but if my leader is willing we carry on
I really hope so
I love learning from everyone and I've gotten so much positive reception from others who say they read the thread and learn a lot
Worst case scenario I think I'll keep you all up to date
civic steeple
hope your leader allows it, dont see too many reasons to not do so
tacit dome
I know there's some tech I wouldn't be able to share
But I craft most of my offenses (*with you all) so I feel like it should be okay
tacit dome
What do you all think, does chacha fall off a bit next season vs kinki with seal?
I feel like despair seal kinki is gonna threatening
earnest shore
What do you all think, does chacha fall off a bit next season vs kinki with seal...
no lmao
cause if kinki's on seal he's not on destroy
besides theres usually a 2nd support with chacha so if u get sealed just cleanse it if its that threatening
(but it won't be, as if he's not on destroy, you can just cleanse it yourself)
tacit dome
🧪
I was thinking that the reduced uptime on shield could be very detrimental
but I guess it is solved by pairing chacha with many other monsters
tacit dome
Does anyone know the formula to calculate 286 tick for Amelia in human form?
tacit dome
Arjun found it: #1133436092301979729
How do we feel about prepping a couple more pralines for the first siege of next season? Are non speed lead defs totally dead?
thin oxide
I think our guild has 6*ed 100+ pralines in the last day
Com2us keeps pulling these absolute shitty siege buffs
fallow sail
I think our guild has 6*ed 100+ pralines in the last day
Wtf lol
I know it would be a lot but 100?
fallow sail
Yeah fair I’m just surprised because most ppl in sf don’t even have 4 lushens iirc
So seems weird the nicher unit would be spammed that fast
thin oxide
what
it's so much harder to use lushen
you need miri to really feel comfortable using lushen
whereas there's a ton of different things you can run double snipe with
old marsh
I assume you can pair with Cov, Kahli, Kahli sisters, are there any other non nat5 snipe I missed?
thin oxide
old marsh
😮 thanks for the graphic