i would like to build a stronger fundamental understanding still
#[ARCHIVED] Siege Advice (Starting Season of December 2022)
tough rose
tranquil junco
honestly the secret to how I play at least
Is breaking every def into 3 2 mon groups
And seeing if I can solve that 2 mon group in a way that leaves space to remove the third unit
And just being able to recognize which 2 mon pairing to focus on
Back when Theo molly sagar was a thing for example
The core I always focused was molly sagar
Because removing Theo somehow makes those two laughably bad
tranquil junco
And to the point jx is making
A lot of that is very knowledge reliant
However breaking it up into archetypes
Of how a defense is trying to function
carmine mason
also if you can solve the 2v2 with these two
tranquil junco
Simplifies the issue a lot
tough rose
perhaps i'm thinking about it too hard a lot of the time
spiral dome
didn't you say you alrdy made 1 some time ago?
tranquil junco
Did I?
tranquil junco
Bc it’s like 2 years old lol
unique flame
wait is there no siege today or did my guild forget to register
tough rose
there's no siege
unique flame
lame
tranquil junco
Lol
shell vapor
Bc it’s like 2 years old lol
what about it is outdated though
There’s some new units you can use in cleave and some new units that deter cleave
But the main idea remains the same
tough rose
whenever i go to hit a defense, i think about a lot of things
- win/loss condition
- what the defense does, what it's strengths and weaknesses are (for example for weaknesses: no cc, no cleanse, no boost, for strengths, easily manipulative AI in terms of the elements present, lack of sustain, etc. strengths i'd think of are the ways it can be built, potential for a unit to get bursted, which debuffs are present and problematic, etc)
- what units individually and combined are strong against the defense
and then i'll choose my team with my conclusions
that's if i'm approaching a new defense at the very least
carmine mason
my cleave brain reg season goes
1/ can i lushen this
2/ can i julie this
3/ can i tiana this
4/ ok how do i funnel ai
tough rose
haha
i seek to improve always
that is my biggest goal. i just want to be better next siege than i was in the last
spiral dome
that is my biggest goal. i just want to be better next siege than i was in the l...
then you got a top 3 guild next siege and it goes down the drain, happened to me once 
tough rose
losing doesn't change what i'm learning
the only time i feel bad about siege is when i demonstrate poor understanding or do not learn
the second one very rarely happens. the first one is a work in progress always
full dragon
I'm planning to make an offense formatting video at some point
I think that's one good part of team building
like when you see a single-target fire and wind unit w/ support or non-retargeting +1, you can do Khmun, Racuni, Malite
if it's a Water/Wind threat defense, you can do 2 Wind + Water/Light/Chacha
Safety vs. Double Despair threat, so you run double/triple cleanser
Also, the Collection -> Search and filter is the best way to find what you need to theorycraft.
You say, "I need a unit damage reduction w/ damage reduction and DEF break" and it shows you who does it
"I need a stripper that also has sustain"
tough rose
#blessed
thank you CTgod
i like doing that as well
with the collection!
would you all be willing to help me with improving my presets?
tranquil junco
kinda poverty presets
tough rose
terribly so
cursive canyonBOT
therionshadow? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
tough rose
therionshadow1
tranquil junco
cursive canyonBOT
therionshadow1? Never heard of him/her - Account doesn't exist or not public.
tranquil junco
BRB stalking box
tranquil junco
cursive canyonBOT
Here are the requested monsters.
provided by SWARFARM
tough rose
some notes here:
1st (khmun racuni malite) is good
2nd (fran malaka triana) is non-functional, fran is not on violent. i only use vs SOP but i haven't gotten it to be successful
3rd (copper bulldozer imesety) i want to retire, i don't think this will work in g3, at least not with my rune quality
4th (bale lushen dova) i never use, it's always something else with lushen, either mephisto, carcano, coco, etc
5th (galleon tiana cheongpung) is fine
6th (covenant praline sonia) i want to retire, i don't think this will work in g3, at least not with my rune quality
7th (TWL) is fine
8th (garo draco kahli) is fine
9th (tesa elucia triana) is only used vs one defense i believe, i just use it vs khmun bastet odin
10th (water twins felleria) is ok but also only use vs MST
11th (galleon bernard julie) i very seldomly use
12th (susano megan stella) i've used twice i think
13th (khmun vigor elucia) i don't even remember where i use this
14th (garo verde raoq) i hardly use, raoq has a broken leg, too slow
tough rose
<:majj:1003449783324786798>
it's such a waste
on this account
with the world's worst DD runes i have two of this silly little guy
tough rose
Feng Amelia is a good preset
what's the +1 here? i actually have never used feng amelia. i'm assuming amelia needs skillups?
tough rose
i do use camilla very often. very pleasant to play vs dom with her.
full dragon
I use my presets to save time in storage
you might could consider putting 2 monsters in a preset, if it has a variable +1
or if I know an attack is coming up, I prep the offense in a preset
tough rose
that's a good idea actually, thank you
spiral dome
2nd (fran malaka triana)
I really much started to love this team, it works very well for me against bruiser team that have no immu/cleanse.
these are the runes, fran also not violent though
last 2 uses
tough rose
i would prefer if you did not give advice here tobbaer if it's ok :)
i will pass on that
thank you though
twin gate
some notes here:
1st (khmun racuni malite) is good
2nd (fran malaka triana) is n...
#3 requires super high rune quality to work in G3 and yeah generally just splitting them with other supports is better i.e. khmun ime copper
#4 best with a swift high damage bale from my experience. I used to use slow R5 one but hasn't felt good in a long time.
#6 is rune quality check for sure. It's safer with bastet imo due to her s2, even if you need more cr.
#9 I personally use a bit versus random LD defenses, honestly it's a pretty brute forceable team sometimes if things are rough
#13 versus harm vigor kinki if you ever still see it
tough rose
nothing, i just want to exchange information with people who are learned
you can always open a thread if you'd like to!
tough rose
#3 requires super high rune quality to work in G3 and yeah generally just splitt...
whats the one usually used with olivia? i forget what it splits into completely
twin gate
Olivia Racuni Bulldozer
It's pretty dated now though, Vigor does way too well at stopping this team from working
tough rose
i see i see
twin gate
I've also heard of some imesety bulldozer teams in the past but can't say with confidence when and where they were used
Other than, of course, the super high rune quality check of mihyang imesety bulldozer versus MST
tough rose
i will let them rest in storage for now then.
ah, i don't have bastet by the way. that is why i don't use her with the double snipe
twin gate
Also I'm sure it's been explained but #11 (Julie) works incredibly well sometimes, just need a faster Bernard for it
That's fair. Gotta use what you have.
tough rose
of course, i'm giants enjoyer right now
twin gate
Just gotta know that without her and with the more yolo supports you are more vulnerable to either something living and wiping you or just being 3v1 by an aggressively proccing opponent sometimes
twin gate
yeah, it only gets worse in G3 with crazy rune quality warriors
tough rose
it's gonna be a heck of a ride, that's for sure!
Think that the next FRR will be a game changer though.
tough rose
Can I still use the broken flat stat runes with like 29 speed in siege when I get up there? That's something i've felt unsure about recently
tranquil junco
Can I still use the broken flat stat runes with like 29 speed in siege when I ge...
For swift units sure
tough rose
If I am playing vs khmun Odin bastet with tesa elucia triana, two things -
- Do I take triana lead or go for 59 percent res on triana 2 here? Khmun kind of slaps hard sometimes and I am concerned I could die to a better runes khmun
- If Odin gets 5 stacks and attacks at the start, do I kill khmun first while trying to keep oblivion on Odin?
For round three, is this OK? I felt like this was pretty decent. Round 2 was swift woosa and I was being lazy and did not bring a better team that could prepare for that.
carmine mason
For round two I would have just windy soloed or Mallite
It’s only one threat
Cleave can work but I feel the defense is so easy without / esp since like a nem or really tanky build on the supports can mess you up
For kbo I like res lead - and personally I kill khmun first. I find punching thru khmun shield to be really annoying
But I think it’s preference. A lot of people will tell you Odin. If you hit Odin first I think you need cd tesa
Oh I misread start
I think sav is really scary here and might try to mitigate that more
You can likely lose to just a sav s3 / 2
I personally don’t like Jose but I know ent does
unique flame
i go for khmun too with tesa. i dont even bother oblivion odin, elucia keeps bastet locked down and odin is no threat without atk buff and buffs
for r3 you should do tractor/camilla + racuni + whatever other fire bruiser/support (khmun is easy)
you don't have much sustain, sav kills delphoi pretty easily
tough rose
hmm okay. i was worried about the verad going crazy and taking infinite turns. that makes more sense though.
tranquil junco
You can also probably lushen that
twin gate
If I am playing vs khmun Odin bastet with tesa elucia triana, two things -
1. D...
I'd go res - Odin not generally built high acc means you don't need to stress getting immunity stolen if you're high resist
also if you're crate tesa I'd go on khmun, but cd and Odin 0 stacks I just go straight for him after he moves. You probably don't have the immediate burst to one shot him if tesa is on crate if you get an s2 -> s1, so just control Khmun and Odin will just kinda sit there at 0 stacks.
tough rose
I like to hit the khmun more honestly. He hurts bad most of the time lol.
twin gate
Either one works, just play around your unit builds imo and it's a win.
Once one of Odin or khmun are down, should be a win regardless.
Also, it's higher rune requirement but a 286 tick vio elucia will pretty much permanently lock down Bastet and can control Khmun as well.
twin gate
If stuff like harm vigor kinki ever comes back or other teams where you need Elucia control in multiple hits, it's worth considering if you want to allocate runes for it. It makes offenses with her so safe it's crazy.
Especially since she's a user of accuracy 6, which is not too common in siege.
tough rose
Huh. I was told otherwise
That would make it easier though for sure. I think I have like 3 monsters that use accuracy% runes.
And only violent one is cheongpung
twin gate
Wait, people told you to not use accuracy?
twin gate
Interesting. I wonder why? I feel like there's enough units who might be 100 resist cough kinki who it helps a ton if she can land s1 freezes.
cursive canyonBOT
Here are the requested monsters.
provided by SWARFARM
tough rose
hmmm. some with and without
twin gate
Some of these builds, like #2, could be replicated with acc 6 as well.
tough rose
i gotta say i much prefer this approach
it is much more satisfying to continue to rune monsters instead of endlessly chasing topset
twin gate
Yeah, totally fair
tough rose
exclusively endlessly chase, at least
twin gate
Just food for thought if you want to amp up your Elucia game. I used to use her a lot into stuff I wasn't confident hitting and she would carry pretty hard.
tough rose
absolutely
when i rerune her i'll do so with accuracy
it seems tricky to do 100% res with good accuracy on 239 tick violent will and good ehp
twin gate
Yeah, hitting all of those markers is pretty difficult without innates or crazy rolls on slot 2
tough rose
and with some attack i guess.
twin gate
To hit 100 res with acc you will need innates and either acc or res 6
I've done it for other units and it costs a ton of stats but can help win for sure.
You might be okay going for 59 res if you use her exclusively with Tesa though for 100 resist.
tough rose
I mean I think elucia is a bonkers unit
Maybe for a second elucia that I only use there but I think I'd like to have an elucia I can use in more situations too
twin gate
For sure.
It's just a struggle hitting all of the benchmarks, and then fearing the 60 acc vigor on adds who lands defbreak first hit anyways lol
Not sure what you're fighting that you're vying for 100 resist at the moment but I figure it's probably useful, just may take specific runes to do so.
Just don't lose too many stats in the meantime lol
tough rose
does anyone actually use bale in siege
thinking about just skipping bj5 on my alt and raiding with my main on it
unique flame
a bale for bj5 is not ideal in siege
if you're going to use an atk lead with lushen it still has to be fast to be able to ideally cleanup before enemies move
so technically you could run a swift bale
elucia is so versatile so there's lots of different good builds for her. sometimes you need acc sometimes you dont, sometimes you need res sometimes you dont
tough rose
I want to build one or two defenses for this siege.
Thebae Manon Ritesh
Clara Eshir Monte
I am wondering what you all think? I also don't have thebae max skilled yet and it will be awhile until he is. First g3 siege is Monday.
tough rose
For Clara Eshir Monte -
- What is Eshir on for runes? Violent revenge?
- Monte and Clara are violent will?
- Turn order is Clara -> Monte -> Eshir?
- What main stats and subs am I looking for on Clara? SPD/CR/HP?
- Eshir is SPD/HP/HP with as much CR as possible?
- Monte is just pure speed and tankiness with a little accuracy?
proud shale
Depends on what you want on Clara Eshir Monte (CEM)
Do you want to swift trap or not?
Eshir can be anything if you go Vio
Vio/Nem, Vio/Will all is legit
Monte and Clara can be Vio Will yes you look for high add damage, acc especially on Clara
But Monte on Nem can be great too
Clara again you can go damagey or bruisery
Spd/HP/HP, Spd/CR/HP, Spd/CR/Atk etc. all is legit
Eshir for example can also be on high CR+ Slot 4 CD but I am slowish (+130)
I just think double HP even with great Arts can be tanked more easily
Monte generally tanky and fast yes but you want to have all relatively close in Speed
I like Monte with some Acc like 50ish and again full Add Damage
If you go classic (aka. Eshir on Vio) its Monte-> Clara-> Eshir
Clara is also chip damage if Monte moves and does S3 after her Damage is basically gone
tough rose
Do you want to swift trap or not?
Unfortunately I can't. My fastest swift is so slow it's funny. Most g3 players have faster violent than my fastest swift I think :D
Just bad luck there ha ha. Thank you for the detailed reply.
unique flame
ive said this before regarding swift but i'll repeat it again
at anything below r2 tourney level, vio will always get you more wins over swift on any unit
the only reason you'd rune anything on swift, is if you already use that unit on swift for other purposes (i.e. offense). swift eshir is a thing for both ao and siege offense. and in that case it still works, and you'd leave him on that fast swift set for def
how fast that speed actually is does NOT matter
for practically all 3 units there isn't 1 superior offset. completely up to you between nem/destroy/will/rev, you can just go with whatever gets you better stats
if you are not using swift then monte has to go first due to the way he works. his s3 doesn't need anything to strip for him, and it's a "set enemy hp to x%" not "deal x% dmg". that means if anything does dmg to the enemy before monte uses s3, that earlier dmg is completely negated.
completely up to you whether you want to build clara bruiser or full tank. i think most people favor trying to sneak in some damage onto her. the correct way for most offenses to tackle this def is to kill monte first, not clara
so yea spd/cr/hp or even spd/cd/hp is probably the more popular clara build
eshir can either be full tank or you can build cr on him, or even go cd. he's kinda like a khmun.
tranquil junco
for practically all 3 units there isn't 1 superior offset. completely up to you ...
id scrap destroy from this, but agree with the other 3
unique flame
what's wrong with destroy? or are you talking about just monte
tranquil junco
what's wrong with destroy? or are you talking about just monte
For monte defs in general
I don’t feel like the games ever go long enough for destroy to be relevant
unique flame
i don't really agree with that, if i bruiser monte it can take awhile
and regardless i think too many people view destroy as just a set that turns draws into wins. i don't like that viewpoint, destroy is a permanent debuff that's applied on every hit
tranquil junco
Eh fair enough. I mostly say this bc I’m averse to letting monte move in any capacity
tranquil junco
And if he’s standing/moving after two rotations I’m less concerned about destroy than I am him just chaining me into oblivion
unique flame
for both myself (i struggle to even put together 1 offense to be able to outspeed monte defs) and the general population
most people are still bruisering monte
tranquil junco
Fair enough
unique flame
also if you think about it - the way most bruiser teams play out vs monte defs if they are piloted "correctly"
its just tunnel monte
meaning if you rune eshir on will, nem, or rev
those offsets do absolutely nothing
full dragon
frick, now I get to sleep 
tough rose
okay, this is what i came up with
let me know what you guys think. i know you don't like when i do lead skill/totem but i get confused otherwise.
i'll add the raw values for speed with each one
cursive canyonBOT
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
Here is your build.
provided by SWOP
tough rose
clara - 103+147 (250)
eshir - 115+133 (248)
monte - 102+168 (270)
unique flame
speed gap too big between monte and others
tough rose
bring monte down then?
unique flame
of course
tough rose
what's the build path for the light homunculus with coco? and is it coco light hom + booster for the team? think i will make this a preset considering how much manon fun there is these days
carmine mason
<@88800902663639040>
Looks good. I would still run acc in arts as much as you can
tranquil junco
what's the build path for the light homunculus with coco? and is it coco light h...
The pseudo tablo, the aoe att buff and the 3 hit s1 iirc
summer stone
is tablo used with coco?
tough rose
is kahli/coco going to do enough damage here? thinking about using this vs kinki and molly. maybe vs (going to highlight some ideas)
__dom molly theo __(concerned i don't one shot dom here consistently with kahli, it's around ~44k without left side artifact), i guess theo could also solo this though
dom kinki nora
dom molly rakan
__dom molly manon
__
not sure what people normally use this team vs but just some ideas :D
tranquil junco
I…. Don’t actually use this particular team much but
Nora I’d avoid using this into, swift Nora is a real build
In general I’d avoid using this into Theo for reasons you listed
Manon + molly you can’t use this on, bc regardless of kill
Kahli s2 is still 15%
Dom rakan kinda sus, bc rakan can do things
tough rose
Manon + molly you can’t use this on, bc regardless of kill
yeah i'm testing it on a guildy defense right now
i actually think it is fine statistically speaking
i think you can kill manon then the hom is -wind it's doable
like there's 15% chance kahli glances. so let's say she glances
then hom dies next turn from double proc
she revives, resets skill cd. she seems to always use s2 or s3. if she dies and uses s2 here on a target that isn't herself that unit keeps speed buff which puts you on 4 tick
then you miss atk break on dom with coco
dom goes for hom again and double procs & kills hom
next turn you have coco s3 and kahli s2
then kahli gets glance again
dominic procs and kills coco -> lose
dominic procs and kills kahli -> coco kills dominic maybe and probably loses a 1v1 to molly
so basically i think you have to glance twice
if it's a high damage dominc then he can even die to kahli + coco s1 because of how high their damage is
if its a bruiser style dominic then it should work too
basically i think it's a 97.75%
not a 85%
that's if everything goes wrong
i'm struggling to make a loss happen but perhaps i'm missing something or it isn't well enough runed
tough rose
maybe it can lose to hp/hp/hp dom?
but i feel like that requires many procs, and if its hp hp hp dom then the hom should live for long enough to get a second cycle of skills at the very least
unique flame
you should be fine against most doms. definitely possible to build a tanky dom to trap your kahli but it shouldn't be common at all
theo can always do his stuff but 3v1 theo hsould still be like 95%+ win rate
momo though i would not expect to be able to 1 shot consistently with your kahli
momo has the extra dmg reduction
dom molly manon could be ok since you have tanky homu
tough rose
oh right, forgot about that part
unique flame
you also should be ok against most noras
yes its possible for people to make swift nora but again i really doubt you'll see it at that level
other than molly or kinki or manon stuff
people also use this team vs TL
tough rose
tian lang molly theomars?
ok hold on this is not normal right
i'm not gonna run into several noras like this i'm hoping here?
i was just scrolling through guild defenses to test it and i got outsped by a violent nora and was confused
unique flame
ok hold on this is not normal right
whose is it
but yea it happens
at the top level i just assume everyone has 300 spd vio sets
and of course in this age of the game
a million top accounts got sold
tough rose
ahhh okay
unique flame
and bought and are now floating anywhere from g1 to g3
tough rose
i guess the solution to losing to that is just rune quality
unique flame
yes
the people with the runes to do so run this offense at like 290-300 spd coco/kahli
tough rose
@full dragon i think that going for triana is correct here in a real siege since i would assume its very squishy. after the pause i think i'm supposed to hit martina right? since she doesn't have immunity
or should i just transfer debuffs to martina and kill her immediately?
unique flame
you have to kill a twin asap no matter what
deciding to kill triana or the leftover twin next is then up to you, depending on situation and if its dmg triana or not
tough rose
got it.
tough rose
could someone share their amelia runes? looking to run the feng amelia that ent had suggested!!
summer stone
is wind string master lulu wind bruiser a good counter to clara sav theo?
im having a hard time hitting this defense
twin gate
Sav Theo sounds like Leo season tbh
summer stone
twin gate
It's true
twin gate
I don't think yeonhwa + another wind makes sense tbh. There's no water unit advantage you're getting cause Theo is element neutral
summer stone
what about wind string + double fire?
twin gate
I'd assume maybe a fire unit instead who can fight the Clara and be advantage on Savannah
But idk who your support is there really
summer stone
something like yeonhwa racuni nora?
twin gate
Too long kill time + Theo can just oneshot or two piece Racuni
Seems easy to lose to one triple Clara stun too or sav landing the defbreak
drifting hearth
Feng + something + something?
twin gate
I'm inclined to think that could work but Theo hitting on a Clara defbreak can definitely kill a FY
Maybe some sort of Feng + water immunity + vela team or something
So you can just immunity up and kill Clara dismount savannah
drifting hearth
feng amelia vela maybe
twin gate
Maybe Amelia works
Rough cause like negative sustain
I would run like a lulu or something for heals
Or a woosa maybe
twin gate
I remember myth having the best success a long time ago in the carc clara times with double immunity
Not sure if it works here but I'm inclined to think it should
Just also need sustain cause Theo can do significant damage
tranquil junco
Sav Theo sounds like Leo season tbh
It’s not actually
Most of the guilds that ran that were either anti Leo or anti feng
tough rose
Most of the guilds that ran that were either anti Leo or anti feng
is it atk slot 4 or something sav? i was thinking about leo options
i was thinking maybe leo diana riley, kill theo -> clara -> sav
during clara kill you just stay in horsey form the whole time
tranquil junco
is it atk slot 4 or something sav? i was thinking about leo options
i was thinki...
That’s one yes
tranquil junco
is it atk slot 4 or something sav? i was thinking about leo options
i was thinki...
It probably works into lower guilds
But higher guilds build that defense so that sav-> Theo means something just died
I had a guildie bring feng Arta Amelia and lose feng first rotation to I think just one Theo proc
tough rose
tough rose
vs geldnir theomars felleria? today i learned how geldnir works completely and learned you probably shouldn't bring in windy without a dark tank
WGB 3/22/2023 (1/2)
- (coco kahli light hom) fine
- (vs geldnir theomars felleria) still unsure. i think galleon tiana cheongpung is fine but i had used it on the bottom one.
- (vs jeanne kaki abellio) fine but I think copper bulldozer is a simpler solution, i don't have it runed right now either and i am not confident in copper 1 shotting abellio with my runes vs 44% hp lead
- (vs triana martina deva) +lulu -riley but also i wouldn't normally be fighting this on 5 star base. would TWL this otherwise
- (vs dominic jeanne woosa) fine. pretty safe against swift jeanne too (not sure if people run it?)
been thinking about this one quite a bit and i'm not sure. maybe lushen with swift bale?
proud shale
been thinking about this one quite a bit and i'm not sure. maybe lushen with swi...
Well on top of my head Id think something like
Kahli Mephisto Lulu and snipe Tara first
Bol Mo Harmonia
tough rose
Well on top of my head Id think something like
Kahli Mephisto Lulu and snipe Ta...
how about shren here instead of kahli?
but i guess no atk buff then
shren konamiya mephisto?
that approach is wise, thank you
i was thinking khmun racuni covenant to snipe tesarion but then i realized that doesn't work
because, you know. taranys
real vault
This one you can also khmun racuni malite
You could maybe potentially shren the def too but idk, I don't have shren so I wouldn't know
Tbh yeah you could probably swift baleshen or even tractor lulu malite/windy this comp
cursive canyonBOT
Here is the requested monster.
provided by SWARFARM
carmine mason
@tough rose
tough rose
thank you
twin gate
Most of the guilds that ran that were either anti Leo or anti feng
you have to run some absolutely ballistic ass build to be able to defbreak leo with his lead
thats crazy to me
timid trout
you have to run some absolutely ballistic ass build to be able to defbreak leo w...
U reckon ur leo will be okay against this?
tough rose
U reckon ur leo will be okay against this?
go get free ms from surprise shop!!!
unique flame
U reckon ur leo will be okay against this?
personally if i'm runing a mon high def against sav i'm assuming the sav has 3k atk before towers
timid trout
personally if i'm runing a mon high def against sav i'm assuming the sav has 3k ...
Thats pretty insane but fair, i think the best i can do triple atk was around +2500 atk. I just benchmarked against myself which is kinda limiting, but its the only option in our guild haha
twin gate
U reckon ur leo will be okay against this?
That's the goal. Idk if I could but I'd sure try.
timid trout
Come join gen1 then you can 😉
Anyway i digress
Ur guys runes are far superior to mine haha
full dragon
Keep in mind, Savannah benefits from more ATK due to arena towers, so it's even more in her favor.
because there's a regular ATK% and Wind ATK% towers
and only 1 DEF% tower
timid trout
Leo base def is lower too
twin gate
Keep in mind, Savannah benefits from more ATK due to arena towers, so it's even ...
Leo lead offsets this I think
It's more about stacking as much def as humanly possible after while being on triple will or some other tanky set I think
full dragon
It does help, though Savannah will still scale higher with her base ATK
depends on the defense, but if you're only scared of that redirect, can do triple Guard Leo
timid trout
I’d be too scared to run super low hp though, cuz i can see a theo s2 + proc still nuking leo
summer stone
Leo is still one of the safer options
summer stone
I know
tough rose
pls let me ask here
twin gate
I feel like Leo builds on high defense are gonna want HP gemmed in on pretty much every rune if it doesn't have it, so it shouldn't be that low HP?
full dragon
The way I use Leo vs. this, I assume my Leo is going to get DEF broken and give safest turn 1 and highest EHP for the extended battle (2x Will/1x shield)
tranquil junco
Leo is still one of the safer options
Uh
summer stone
But I also want to know more because I can’t hit this shit either
tough rose
if you don't know please don't give advice
tranquil junco
I’d rather windy cami this
tough rose
The way I use Leo vs. this, I assume my Leo is going to get DEF broken and give ...
what's your +2 to leo here?
timid trout
If you are short on options, you can twl it. Lose con is lulu dying
full dragon
still the Tesarion, Lulu, Leo
tough rose
right.
tough rose
so then are you going -water mostly?
i don't want my face ripped off by theomars
feels like savannah should be controlled enough with leo passive
twin gate
food for thought - couldn't we use Aaliyah here? She scales extremely well with defense, has a def buff and plenty of sustain
just no multiple quick cleanses but sending Clara sky asap means I don't think you would need one
tough rose
what like feng aaliyah leo?
summer stone
What if you had no Camilla no Leo and no Aaliyah
tranquil junco
die
tough rose
are you playing in g3?
summer stone
Yes
tough rose
martina shaina manon
full dragon
so then are you going -water mostly?
yeah
summer stone
Is it possible to cleave Clara sav Theo?
tough rose
vs this defense (martina shaina manon?)? i was thinking i could use the coco team but i guess i should assume that they have +200 violent or +220 swift
full dragon
This defense existed before, the main counters were making Clara's turn 1 less effective as turn 2
Windy does this well, shield sets
tranquil junco
vs this defense (martina shaina manon?)? i was thinking i could use the coco tea...
Problem
At least when Mali ran this
Half of them were straight full tank
tough rose
the manons you mean?
tranquil junco
The whole def
tough rose
or the twins as well?
tranquil junco
They were either super yolo +water
Or everything full tank
Or as tanky as Martina’s bases can be
if you wait for clouds video you’ll see smth cool tho
tranquil junco
Soon
full dragon
tranquil junco
It’s gonna be cloud running Bastet Julie lushen 10x
full dragon
turn 1 debut
If you think about it, Clara lead variant is weaker vs. Leo
No CR lead
tranquil junco
How many Leo losses did we have?
I remember vs red we had quite a few feng/Leo losses
tranquil junco
Tru
I sinned today
I ran a spd cr hp Riley in isgw lol
Auto engrave is too powerful
tough rose
tough rose
this is the new tech
summer stone
How about stuff like Manon molly x
tranquil junco
How about stuff like Manon molly x
It’s annoying but not very good
summer stone
How would you hit Manon molly ethna for example
tranquil junco
How would you hit Manon molly ethna for example
Odin woosa Riley
tough rose
right now i'm just trying to get offenses set up
tough rose
i'm leaving just one def in there for now
ripe kraken
I see that team and immediately think triana wind bruiser rina
ripe kraken
Kill the ethna
summer stone
I ran triana rina Momo and it worked well
ripe kraken
I think manon is op tank though
tough rose
is there any way that i can simulate having grinds that i don't have (violent purples) in swop?
tranquil junco
But yeah Manon molly x
summer stone
So basically just Odin and double immunity
ripe kraken
is there any way that i can simulate having grinds that i don't have (violent pu...
I believe there is but it’s a pain
tough rose
so farmer mode? 
always keep one of each violent purple grind so i can simulate it? lol
summer stone
The grind for grinds
tough rose
tranquil junco
You can manually insert grinds too
twin gate
what like feng aaliyah leo?
ya feng aaliyah leo or like tesa aaliyah leo
tough rose
i will remember this for when i get aaliyah
drifting hearth
doesn't this do that?
drifting hearth
ok my english is dead I think
tough rose
actually
how do you change the min and max to your liking
that would make it possible i think
drifting hearth
carmine mason
I want swop to tell me I need to gem a rune to make a build work
drifting hearth
can only do that I think
tough rose
I want swop to tell me I need to gem a rune to make a build work
that would be nice, but i think that swop would explode into a million pieces
violent destroy?
for tesa leo lulu tesarion?
carmine mason
I just run destroys tesa yeah
And have a 2 rune swap if you really need
I find very few tesa offenses that you need will
But some tesa offenses you would like to have@rev
tough rose
And have a 2 rune swap if you really need
yep, i was talking specifically about the leo one here :D
carmine mason
What are you taking it into
Still same answer
If it’s like triple dps then will sure
Clara Theo sav etc
tough rose
clara savannah theo
revenge sounds pretty good there
tough rose
yeah the plan i'm going for is 59%
tranquil junco
tranquil junco
Therion
carmine mason
I would build 100 res and use feng lead
tough rose
he told me!!!
tranquil junco
BUT HE DIDNT
tough rose
that would have made me freak out even more
tranquil junco
carmine mason
I need to update my swarfarm
tranquil junco
I updated my json
carmine mason
@tough rose my swarfarm will be useful again!
tranquil junco
surely my applications pan out
carmine mason
Sec lemme find it
carmine mason
tough rose
that's the goal
tranquil junco
Imma just go
tough rose
name appearing in siege chat so fast for 10-0
tranquil junco
Lushen lushen Julie Julie lcl bastard cleave tiana 2x ld comp
And do my first 9 hits in about 20 minutes
carmine mason
I’m gonna rune a little more
summer stone
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/928809306374160404/1087836693865959525/...
For the Claire team can you use Megan?
carmine mason
I Runed 10 defenses too
full dragon
gotta go 
and get the double formation sweep
carmine mason
Yeah but praline better
summer stone
Praline is harder to tune right?
summer stone
I’d need another kahli
Also I’d need to run everything swift which I think I can do
It’s more the 100% cr part
tough rose
i mean i guess it depends where your runes are
for me i couldn't run the team without praline and the crit buff
ii think there's a better argument to be made for bastet than megan
since bastet is much more useful in the 3v1
tranquil junco
I mean you can but kahli is ideal
tough rose
i think i'm going to archive this thread shortly and make a new one
it's getting very very long and i want to start a new one since i'm going to be playing in g3 siege
warped hearth
ok, going to close this now guys
what a lie
tough rose
[ARCHIVED] Siege Advice (Starting Season of December 2023)