beta-ptr-spoilers

[unborn glacier]

No. Renown still exists in 9.1.5

[cunning fossil]

You can basically skip from 1 to 40 with an item

But other than that. Just regular catch up

[tropic trail]

Its not enabled by default? or do we have to pay for it for some ridiculous reason?

Have they made it into grind?

[pulsar minnow]

Once you hit renown 80, you can buy an item that boosts renown to 40 immediately. You can then send this to your alts and if they do that and the campaign skip, they should be able to hit renown 48.

[cunning fossil]

^^^

It's really easy.

[cunning fossil]

You are playing an MMO. It's ALWAYD a grind

[tropic trail]

Do you remember when leveling up was not grinding. It was just result of doing series of quest chains. Most of the time there was deeper story in the background. I wish they would just release expansion that is large as the whole of azeroth like it was in classic. You get whole package, 60 new levels instead of 10. Large exciting landscapes with backstory in them. Quest chains that lead to dungeons in the end. New races to play. Whole new world to explore, races to obtain allies trough questing, world exploration, open world battle grounds. Whole new azeroth like planet. This is what I want to see in Blizzcon.

[tepid fiber]

So... you want every expansion to be the scope of an entire base game?

Also a lot of this already--

No

Nope

Nvm

Not even gonna try

[zealous basalt]

Uh, then an MMORPG with an xpac system is not for you

What you want to play is just single player rpg

No company is gonna making a whole new game as a MMORPG service every 3 years

Not if you want profits

[upper pasture]

uh...leveling wasn't a grind in classic?

LOL

[cosmic beacon]

levelling was the classic grind

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna be honest with you, leveling was grinding in Classic. So like are we talking about Legion here because that's like the only expansion whose story never gets old to me

[tropic trail]

Its not whole new mmorpg, its just addition to the content.

[unborn glacier]

And?

[tropic trail]

It could boost up the numbers of casual players a lot when there is quests to do instead of just waiting room for raids and other end game content. They have the technology to phase out zone content so that once you complete it, there is no hostile npcs left, or the opposite only hostiles left, so that the winning faction of war is dominant at the location. These pvp battlegrounds could be run at specific times when the next 24-72 hours the other faction is in control of that zone. Winning faction claims the zone for their own for next couple of hours to days or something. They could just do the world full of these faction change zones. First you quest them trough and then they become battle zones once you reach max level.

[unborn glacier]

No

[tropic trail]

You didnt even read that.

[unborn glacier]

I have.

You are just wronmg by every statistic we have for MMOs

[upper pasture]

did you enjoy being locked out of a raid in wintergrasp or tolbarad?

[tepid fiber]

Dude you don't even know what you're talking about

[tropic trail]

So clearly locking raid content behind wont be issue if you just dont do that.

[tepid fiber]

[zealous basalt]

Don't ever mix Pvp and pve

[zealous basalt]

R u Ion

[deep pawn]

Did we not have a dungeon at the end of every zone this expansion?

Or at least the story leads you right to it

[tepid fiber]

We did

There was a dungeon for each zone with quests to it, and then a second dungeon for each zone that was usually associated with a covenant campaign quest

[deep pawn]

The Shadowlands levelling experience was great. Probably one of the best. You're never going to get 20 zones in an expansion cause that is just way too much work. Cata is the closest and it got rightly criticized cause they spent so much dev time on things most players didn't need.

[tepid fiber]

Even if you don't take into account all of the leveling zones, Cata still had roughly the same number of endgame zones as other expansions

[unborn glacier]

I will say, Azeroth is in need of another Cata lvl update. Re-invigorating the old world would be so much fun.

[deep pawn]

The zone number wasn't the problem, I think most people felt the end game was lacking. The zones were a lot smaller than wrath(even if wrath was a lot of empty space) and the raids in general were much smaller.

Firelands is remembered fondly but it is small, plus the cut Neptulon raid

And then the drama over dragon soul being reused assets

[dense plover]

still think it should be zone by zone

MAYBE they could redo old expacs as new expacs

like wrath 2.0 fully redoing northrend from scratch, leaving the old continent intact in the past

generally, only certain zones on azeroth need to be fully redone

ogrimmar, durotar, thunderbluff, mulgore, stormwind, elwynn, ironforge, whatever zone ironforge is in

that would be enough since you dont visit these zones anymore generally speaking

SW and Org should come first

they want to keep using them as capitals, they should make them prettier, modern, and give all the buildings interiors

modern cities like boralus or suramar

[unborn glacier]

That'd be amazing

[dense plover]

i think it will happen eventually

probably not anytime soon tho

wrath doesnt have a TON of zones

and a bunch of original concepts were cut

imagine them finally doing ahn qiraj

an actual underground spider zone

[unborn glacier]

YES PLEASE

Especially with Northrend thawing

[deep pawn]

We did get a burning crusade 2.0 with WoD and legion haha

[tepid fiber]

Eh

[deep pawn]

Same zones and legion finished the crusade story

In many ways, Shadowlands is finishing the wrath plot threads and BfA finished cata

[dense plover]

i mean

warlords zones werent BAD

it was everything else that was

tanaan 2.0 is legit a neat zone when compared to hellfire

aka red rock plains mountains

the lack of zangarmarsh and netherstorm equivalent are unfortunate tho

[deep pawn]

It's a common theme that Blizzard runs out of time for everything they want

Wrath is missing a full spider kingdom, cata missing raids, WoD zones and raids.

MoP may be the only expansion they got almost everything they wanted?

Shadowlands is likely missing an entire raid as well based on what they normally aim for

[cunning fossil]

if only they could make expacs every 3 years, it might give them enough time to

actually ensure that the expacs they make are good ya know

a year long alpha beta test sounds fine for me if it means that systems aren't shit when they're realease

like Azerit

[deep pawn]

I don't think an extra year would generate any extra content sadly

[urban spire]

WoD would have been much better if 3 things were in the game in my mind.
Tanaan at launch as the end game zone equivalent to the maw in shadowlands, but without the fel corruption (6.1). That could have been a plot point built up for the final raid tier and a way to remaster the zone for the final patch(6.3).
secondly, netherstorm/ farahlon as the 6.2 zone
thirdly, the shattrath raid which could have been released in 6.2 with farahlon

oh and one more thing actually

the ability to have your garrison in any zone like they said they would

I think this literally would have made the expansion fairly on par with most other ones

[deep ledge]

WoD would have been better if garrisons didnt exist

[urban spire]

In their implementation yeah. They should have been less than they were

no gathering related stuff and no AH

[deep ledge]

just sitting in a house

inside of a house

Yay

[urban spire]

I liked it tbh, but between the gathering stuff, ah and the free raid gear it was wayyy too much stuff

I liked getting the guldan statue though

stuff like that was pretty cool

i'm a huge fan of player housing though, so decorations and raid trophies are really cool to me

[deep ledge]

yea the statues were cool. I also liked the lumber mill but thats pretty much it

Wood be pretty cool if they added lumber mill in future expansion or as part of herbalism

[urban spire]

yeah. I also liked a few of the buildings like the stables for mounts and the pet menagerie, but pretty much anything that was QoL enough that you didn't ever want/need to leave your garrison was the issue

lol wood be

nice pun

but yeah, it would be interesting. could add woodworking or tie it into engineering for bow making and hunter weapons

we don't really need new professions, just more depth to existing ones besides having to make the same recipe over to level to the next tier and then the next, cough cough legendary base items

[unborn glacier]

No. The lack of more content is what made Garrisons stand out far more than they were meant to.

[deep ledge]

i did not like garrisons

[unborn glacier]

Cool. Garrisons were great but the lack of more content made them stand out far more than they were meant to. That was the "failure" of Garrisons.

[deep ledge]

and theyget recycled every xpack but made worse

sit in a room in your domain --> sit in a room in ur clas' domain --> sit on a big boat --> sit in the big bad city

doing work orders!

collecting work order resources!

getting your followers in shiny green gear 😎

[deep pawn]

I loved my garrison, I loved my MoP farm

I'll take a personal space that's just mine any expansion

If anything BfA and SL lack that for me.

[cunning fossil]

well because

it turns out it isn'ta world of warcraft

if you're stuck in your home all day

lmao

[deep pawn]

I'm of the opinion that if WoD had m+ it'd be considered amazing. It just needed anything besides raid logging

[cunning fossil]

That is fair

but still Garrison's didn't help I think

[deep ledge]

Sitting inside your house

In your pc

In your basement

In your house

Yay

[deep pawn]

There's been no garrisons for 3 expansions now. Oribos isn't a poppin, neither was legion Dalaran really

People want something that doesn't matter. If not for the possibility of longbois, people in Oribos are irrelevant to my experience

[tropic trail]

Well, Oribos has the Vault and access to the Maw. That's about it for what matters, tbh. It's not like people return to profession trainers after maxing out their skill

[deep pawn]

Yeah I see a wave of people at the vault but they're a lag inducing nuisance more than anything.

[tropic trail]

Hey, Oriboring beats Lagaran from Lagion

[deep pawn]

I vastly prefer spending time at my covenant sanctum

[tropic trail]

I guess you're meant to?

[deep pawn]

Some people fetishize the idea that you have to see other people around you for the game to be social.

[deep ledge]

Socializing with npcs

[deep pawn]

I treat people with a longboi as an npc basically

[deep ledge]

/flirt with hogger

🥴

[tropic trail]

Name one covenant with not a single member, then I'll believe that statement

[deep pawn]

I meant the people that bemoan garrisons or how cities are always dead.

I'm sure some hate covenant sanctums splitting players as much as they hated class halls

[tropic trail]

Imo, if they want to keep sharding as a system, they should merge some servers

For example, Darkmoon Faire and Erathern Ring share the same shard, but you can't guild invite between them. Why? Not the same server. They're both dead, why not combine them?

[urban spire]

I've always wondered that too, like why would you connect realms but not just merge them

is it like an issue with names or the backend stuff that would make it hard?

[tropic trail]

They can easily solve that problem with a surname system like in FF

Or even like in BDO, where the surname is your account

[deep pawn]

If I have 0 reason to interact with them it doesn't exactly matter if I see them or not

[urban spire]

then why would you play an mmo?

I think community is important in mmos

it doesn't need to be the core focus, but it definitely shouldn't be an after thought

if you want to socialize with npcs that's fine, but that's in every other rpg including completely single player ones - i'll move this to #retail-wow

[sullen dawn]

They could merge more servers if they made the whole world relevant

And increase the total active players per server

As players would be spread out across more zonss

Kills two birds with one stone and would create a fuller world

Kinda like what ESO does with its megaservers

[cunning fossil]

would be nice

but they "don't have the technology"

[urban spire]

@cunning fossil I honestly think it's an engine issue

blizzard has had issues with the engine for over a decade now

since it's basically a modified hero engine which is very old

[dense plover]

they didnt full on change their engine actually

they pulled an overwatch

they salvaged a lot

and rebuilt the rest

thats why there are a bunch of weird limitations in 14

up until recently, the game literally couldnt change your location when you were in a cutscene/as part of a cutscene

thats why heavensward and stormblood have a bunch of "go to this place to watch a cutscene and then go back to the other place" quests

theres other stuff but im too tired to fully remember

i mean, its definitely noticeable tho

the fact that in shadowbringers a quest can take you to a different zone as part of a cutscene instead of watching a cutscene, teleporting, watching a cutscene, teleporting, is SO game changing

they removed a bunch, yeah but its was an engine limitation they resolved in shadowbringers

its definitely a much newer engine than wow

wow's engine is actually built off of WC3

so its VERY old

21 years nearly

[tropic trail]

help

next level 50
what should I do 😰

[dense plover]

Ask in the right channel

[tropic trail]

Which channel?

[dense plover]

#wow-help

[tepid fiber]

He shotgunned it across several

[uncut vault]

a big one is that you cant place a glamour dresser (transmog NPC equivalent) in housing, because if the person who owns the house moves it while someone is using it, it breaks the entire game, like literally all of it

because their transmog system physically stores items owned by the player, and "takes them out" of the inventory for glamour dresser use

it's one of the big things WoW has over theirs that fans hope can eventually get changed

the appearance tab is a godsend in WoW

[dense plover]

Yep - the glamour system is absolutely the biggest example of the old FFXIV systems holding the game back

It’s very messy and would require them to rewrite their entire gear system - but they have said they want to make it better

Right now you can only store 400 glamour items which is honestly nothing

[opaque pewter]

I'm not sure if it's the case today still, but I think the body can only do mirrored texture, which is why we didn't get any asymmetrical gloves design and such. So far, shoulders were worked on first

[mossy meteor]

https://ptr.wowhead.com/news/reopening-the-mage-tower-with-legion-timewalking-in-9-1-5-fel-werebear-324186

[silent urchin]

shame it's only during timewalking

I feel like timewalking stuff should be accessible permanently, just keep the bonuses to weekends only

they're so far apart these days

oh hey they've been sending out the "thanks for testing" emails for 9.1 PTR

The rest of the WoW® community also lent a helping hand—throughout playing on the Public Test Realm, other champions created 55,900 bug reports, 4,190 of which were unique.

NUMBER OF BUGS REPORTED: 14```

waiting for peach to post something like 1500

honestly the new werebear skin is better than the old one

I kinda understand why they don't want to change something they supposedly commited to, but I imagine most people would prefer it if they did

I would, and I got most of the appearances

[upper pasture]

Personally I’m excited to play the content I missed out on

[deep pawn]

I was not expecting a new bear form haha

I mean yes, those of us who are 36/36 likely wouldn't have pushed as hard if they were available forever.

[upper pasture]

And a mount!

If you do 7 I think

[deep pawn]

yep

Book mount, likely the concept that didn't win the voting

[left arch]

I’m still mad at tree mount that they released

[deep pawn]

I don't hate it, it just doesn't fly so it doesn't get used

[upper pasture]

Man, I was excited to get 9.1.5 to do my horde alt lvling in torghast but now I’ll be busy with TW mage tower

[silent urchin]

Only for one week every few months, plenty of time for torghast still

[upper pasture]

Two weeks at launch

[signal bone]

man this MT shit is so dumb, FOMO crap is awful

just let people get the appearences

MT wasn't even hard in 7.3, and we don't even know the actual tuning, it could literally be as tough as it was on 7.2 launch and people would still be pissed

also, just put that shit up all the time, literally not reason why timewalking has to be gated

[left arch]

https://tenor.com/view/pedro-monkey-puppet-meme-awkward-gif-15268759

[unborn glacier]

What an absolute missed opportunity.

[unborn glacier]

Agreed

[cosmic beacon]

FINALLY BIG BEAR BUT WAY COOLER

[left arch]

What’s your prize

[left arch]

Delicious

[dense plover]

Noob numbers @mossy meteor

[mossy meteor]

yeah i know

[dense plover]

You gotta step up your game

[mossy meteor]

i'm bad at bug-finding lol

[dense plover]

Tbf, those numbers are small for me this patch

But I stopped doing the story to avoid spoilers

Easy bugs are everywhere - typos, missing dialogue, inconsistencies in npc naming or locations or movement

[mossy meteor]

legion m+ added to this build

[pulsar minnow]

All I did was report bugs in the campaign. I could’ve done more but I didn’t want to burn myself out even more than I already was

[royal coral]

As a Demon Hunter, I want new wings skins, and some emotes that allow me to show them without gliding ... instead, they give new skins to druids, again and again and again x)

[pulsar minnow]

Well to be fair for Druids they’re spending 90% of their time in an animal form, and having a very distinct look barred because you didn’t play 5 years ago is pretty annoying. So this is just a nice thing to do

[dense plover]

^

DH wings aren’t set up to do the things you want

So they have to code them

All the Druid stuff is just the art team working or reworking existing assets in some way

[ancient jasper]

I feel like they could reuse the Mechagon Jetpack code and would just need animations for it.

[mossy meteor]

i tried legion m+

it was cool

[cosmic beacon]

Pog

[tropic trail]

Next patch

[fervent sky]

Does anyone know what changes we're getting with
Legacy Raid Tuning Coming in Patch 9.1.5?

I'm hoping all mythic legion raids become solo-able.
But you never know with Blizz. 🤷‍♂️

[dense plover]

i believe BfA is getting legacy loot

and theyre doing a pass on ALL legacy raids

[pulsar minnow]

my gosh I just tested out the Highmountain customization

there is just so much it's honestly confusing

I absolutely love what they've done

[mossy meteor]

Yeah my superior mountain cow can now look pretty

[little saffron]

Is the mage tower accessible on PTR?

[mossy meteor]

nah

why are you complaining so loudly about a game you don't even play anymore

besides it's literally 5 minutes of work a single artist/dev did in their free time

gamers being upset about digital 2D boobs

[little saffron]

Thanks

[unborn glacier]

Imagine being so dismissive and disingenuous

[vernal tartan]

Don't fight each other~

[left arch]

Sadly that’s a very hard request to ask it seems

[left arch]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-calla-lowi-shhhh-gif-15001286

[unborn glacier]

First time I've agreed with you

[pulsar minnow]

I dont think anybody is saying that changing the artwork is exactly fixing everything, it just doesn't fit the times now and definitely doesn't reflect good on Blizz who seemingly wants to cleanse the community of this kind of toxicity.

[left arch]

Well I don’t think anyone thinks changing that stuff stops irl harassment lol

[pulsar minnow]

I don't know who said it would

And removing things that encourage or at least include that type of toxicity don't help anything either

look I don't know what the problem is with this. literally nobody here is saying this is fixing everything wrong with Blizz. That being said these changes definitely aren't hurting them either.

[unborn glacier]

It sends an absolute terrible message to women. That the only way they are safe is to cover up. That their bodies are inherently wrong. This is straight up a sexist overcorrection.

[strange falcon]

https://i.4cdn.org/vg/1631764902965.jpg

[zealous basalt]

the memes

[deep pawn]

It's easier to remove objectification of women in the game than it is to add any of male characters. I mean it is a bad take that illidan allowed an entire wing of prostitution to set up under his watch, even if a shivarrah was in charge

[tepid fiber]

And Medivh too

Don't forget Medivh

Is it just me or do all the best raids have bedroom wings

[deep pawn]

I chalk it up to a different era and thing like that just don't fly anymore and I'm fine with them being phased out.

It's not like the old cartoons where we can slap a message in front explaining that

[tepid fiber]

I think the point was because areas of a fortress or manor dedicated to carnality are typically associated with wanton abundance with positions of power

[deep pawn]

I get it, and things like that were acceptable back then, but times change.

[dense plover]

^^^^

you can emulate historical aspects without adding them when they arent neccesary

does the carnality or sexuality add anything? no? then it doesnt need to be there does it?

[deep pawn]

I've always wanted to choose between a succubus and an Incubus

Wouldn't be surprised they replace it entirely in 10.0

[tepid fiber]

Not justifying anything, obviously

[deep pawn]

Obviously, but I appreciate the visible attempts to be better and I hope it's carrying over to real life

[unborn glacier]

Y'all with the hot takes tonight

[mossy meteor]

oh fuck off

[deep pawn]

Which one

[mossy meteor]

like

artist/dev finds a painting from vanilla

decides to update it because we all realised in the last 18 years that treating women as a objects is actually demeaning to women

spends barely an hour on it, in free time most likely

i just don't see what's the problem with that

It sends an absolute terrible message to women. That the only way they are safe is to cover up. That their bodies are inherently wrong. This is straight up a sexist overcorrection.

also this is just so fucking dumb

it's a VIDEO GAME

you're legit saying a painting in a video game being updated is "a sexist overcorrection"

[unborn glacier]

Sexists love to justify their shit

[tepid fiber]

Baifeng, do you need to eat a Snickers?

[deep pawn]

Ff14 let's characters be way more sexual than WoW ever has but they're largely equal opportunity. Heck the star of a strip club in the latest expansion is a male haha.

[cunning fossil]

there's astrip club?

can I be a participant?

[unborn glacier]

No, but I think Gamer does

[deep pawn]

Not at the one in Eulmore, but what happens in player housing stays in player housing

[tepid fiber]

To be fair, they're elaborating their point of view rationally and citing conditions within modern culture and industry even in layman's terms, while you're just being dismissive and unnecessarily callous and just name-calling without making a valid counterargument to his stated points. Kinda clowning it up just a bit, and that doesn't look good on anyone when you're trying to make your point

Not agreeing with either side of the argument, just stating that you can discuss it on the same level without going "ok boomer" and being a dick

[tropic trail]

Ha

[left arch]

Very late to the convo but

As a women, I don’t give a fuck about them removing stuff from the game. Don’t see how it’s offensive to remove buubie paintings

[tropic trail]

WoW is slowly becoming E for everyone

Next thing they'll change is the voices from Thaddius to not include women anymore because that's offensive to women

Even though Thaddius' lore indicates it was built only of women and children

Like, that's a million times more screwed up than a boobie painting

[deep pawn]

This is America. Violence is fine, sex is icky

[tropic trail]

Yeah, it's annoying

[deep pawn]

Devs could either add male sexuality or remove female objectification. They chose the family friendly route and I can't blame them

Having only female objectification is a problem

[tropic trail]

Looks at all topless males in WoW

Yeah, you're probably right

[deep pawn]

Not quite the same, and those are usually played off as jokes or demon hunters

[tepid fiber]

Sexual objectification is a touchy subject

[tropic trail]

Give Wrathion less clothes, he's hot

[deep pawn]

I'm down

I can understand that WoW was largely developed by an ol boys club of gen x types

But it's been a long time

[left arch]

I just don’t blame them for removing anything that is an innuendo or anything like that, especially with the lawsuits and everythint going on

They probably don’t want to step on any toes

[tropic trail]

WoW's identity as a T rated game is put at risk tbh

It'll become E for everyone and we'll get Fortnite kids

[left arch]

Well I know many people started wow as a kid, so it wouldn’t be entirely surprising

But fortnite kids are too obsessed with fortnite

[zealous basalt]

Uh, this kind of things doesn't really the rate down, what get the rate down is what the game wants to show, the story it wants to tell and elements like blood, it will remain T

[tropic trail]

What WoW needs is more gore and screwed up situations, to keep the T rating

[tepid fiber]

Now now, don't need to get all edgy

[tropic trail]

Even Overwatch has more blood than WoW

And you only see the blood effect when getting shot in rapid succession

[tepid fiber]

WoW has entire pools and a class spec filled with blood what are you on about

[left arch]

I honestly don’t know what is needed to keep a rating like that

[zealous basalt]

mild violence

[tepid fiber]

WoW gets so censored to hell and back in China that WotLK is basically Wrath of the Bread King

[deep pawn]

The simulated violence is enough

[zealous basalt]

ye

[tropic trail]

Wrath was done when society wasn't on the "CANCEL THIS, CANCEL THAT" mindset

[zealous basalt]

Please calm down

[tepid fiber]

I mean yeah

[left arch]

We have gotten very cancely as a society this is true

[zealous basalt]

You are taking things that aren't on case either way

[deep pawn]

I don't see it as cancelling, but finally not accepting the stuff our parents tolerated.

[tropic trail]

14 year old girls on Instagram going "Let's cancel wars!"

[tepid fiber]

WoW is a high-fantasy adventure mmorpg in a stylized setting. It doesn't have to be DOOM, Agony, or Saints Row to be entertaining

[tropic trail]

Wtf xD

[zealous basalt]

Ye

if the problem is the rating, there are T games with way more violence than wow with no blood

[tepid fiber]

I feel like this is an unnecessary overreaction to a bordello painting

[left arch]

That’s true but there is definitely major cancel culture

Not just with WoW but in general

[tepid fiber]

Fair, but there's also a difference between unnecessary cancel witch hunting and just updating something to be more appropriate for the current culture within a medium

[left arch]

Which I frankly never knew this painting existed, but I could care less for boobs or no boobs

No one cares it looks like

[tropic trail]

So much for our boob slider wishes

[tepid fiber]

You can't get mad at a bordello painting being turned into a painting of fruit and then admonish Poseidon for anti-LGBT and body shaming in the same breath

[unborn glacier]

"More appropriate" The puritans of old would love that we are now telling women to be ashamed of their bodies.

[tropic trail]

They'll probably decrease the boob size on all females because that's offensive

[left arch]

no one said that though

[tepid fiber]

No one said that, Baifeng

[left arch]

no one said 'we are removing the paintings so you can feel bad about ahving boobs'

[unborn glacier]

Thats literally the message xD

[tropic trail]

I mean, no it's not?

[tepid fiber]

The message is that it's probably not okay to show off bordello paintings in a medium that includes exposure to children

[left arch]

maybe to you, but everyone else does not care about these paintings being altered because 1. like no one knew about it
2. and i mean what more should i say

[tropic trail]

The message is "Women are equals and we should treat them like it"

You don't see sexualized men in WoW

[tepid fiber]

There's a line between unnecessary objectification and gender empowerment

[left arch]

if it was so sexist, i think a lot more women would be enraged about this

[unborn glacier]

I'm with other big WoW women on this, like Fandy. This sends the exact opposite message than what you guys want to believe.

[tropic trail]

It's easy to point a finger and say "This is bad" when there's absolutely nothing wrong

Like when they changed Jaina's cleavage in Hearthstone

[deep pawn]

Who's Fandy?

[left arch]

as a chick myself, i would be more upset to see only women sexualized and not men

because it would make me feel like an object

[tepid fiber]

That's why I love the goblin starting zone so much. Equally represented thottery

[tropic trail]

Changing them brings attention to them

"How dare Blizzard change a painting that's been in the game for seventeen years? Bad, bad Blizzard" isn't the way to see it, either

[unborn glacier]

Easily one of, if not the largest Female WoW Streamers. Verified on Twatter. I'm completely with her on this mess. (Misspelled "Her")

[left arch]

i just am not one to be personally offended over this stuff, like i dont care for the female thot armor either - but i do think it looks dumb and ugly, but ya know like i know not every single women has the same mindset but naturally i would think Only Women is worse rather than having neither of them

[tepid fiber]

It's just changing one art asset in a game featuring overt sexualization within a medium that has exposure to children

[unborn glacier]

https://twitter.com/fandybtw/status/1438391771667615747?s=20 Good thread to read.

ғᴀɴᴅʏ (@fandybtw)

female body in wow = bad now https://t.co/Vq2NX07kei

Likes

811

Twitter · Sep 16, 2021, 6:38 AM

[tropic trail]

Children learn sex ed at like 12, some mild sexual content is fine, but not thot armor and slut characters

[tepid fiber]

It's a sexually presented female body, not just a regular female body doing something that isn't sexual

Like, if they were limiting the presentation of the female form on its own that's one thing--this is a bordello painting used to emphasize sexuality

[tropic trail]

"Boobie bad. I've seen the error of my ways"

[left arch]

i can say bordello paintings are raunchy

[tepid fiber]

Nobody is advocating removing breasts from all female models, they're just removing a painting that is meant to seduce the audience sexually

[deep pawn]

Somehow I've never caught any of her streams, but I don't watch like alinity either

[tropic trail]

I don't even use Twitch, I watch highlights on YouTube

[tepid fiber]

I just don't watch streamers. I have more fun playing the game VS watching someone else play it

[left arch]

wow streams bore me tbh, and im a wow simp too

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna have to agree here too. WoW is just not fun to watch imho

[left arch]

im just overall not a huge fan on streaming

[left arch]

[deep pawn]

I mean yeah, it's a pretty typical American response to go puritanical in response to valid criticism. Can't make other people mad by adding too much male stuff. I mean look how upset people got about Shaw and Flynn.

[left arch]

I imagine it will always be the natural response for the rest of humanity

[deep pawn]

WoW is likely unwilling to go down equal opportunity offender route so we'll go clean for everyone

I mean have they even really referenced tobacco since vanilla or classic?

[left arch]

not to my knowledge

i know cigars are a thing, i think

[deep pawn]

For goblins yeah, and occasionally Gallywix was shown with one. There's a single mention of a snuff box in classic

I can't recall if that quest made it to cata

But it's not the first time WoW has gone squeaky clean. If anything the old stuff is leftover relics

[unborn glacier]

"Valid criticism" yikes

[strange falcon]

They gonna remove any and all violence if they want to bend backwards and forwards for china,
New regulations passed yesterday and they're so strict basically 90% of all games ever created are banned under it

[strange falcon]

Since the F word was mentioned,saw this meme the other day
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/568545692365226035/888081834418769990/RDT_20210916_1119528401284416907532877.jpg

[strange falcon]

Thats every corporations trying to appease twittards trying not to get canceled or run into controversies or any bad PR.

And thats how we get to these levels of PoliticalCorrectness

[strange falcon]

Tbh, cancel culture was born for a very valid reason, but nowadays its justified to pick fights with whoever and its always guilty before never proven innocent because people will always remember just the first impression

Oh hey went on a monologue again,poggers

[deep pawn]

in ff14, they're a very much, both genders get oggled. That's what I meant earlier that it's not so much that women are objectified, it's that it's pretty consistently ONLY women

[unborn glacier]

Stop using that word if you have no idea what it is.

[strange falcon]

One of the best one line quotes to describe this entire situation has been
"You cant be sexist to women if there is no women"

Still cant believe they turned her into a fruit bowl 😂

[left arch]

He used all the words in that sentence correctly so

[unborn glacier]

No, he didn't

[unborn glacier]

I'm shocked we're in agreement on this

[strange falcon]

It truly is the end of days when we are on the same side

[left arch]

He did but wutevs

[surreal pier]

honestly i dont think that the rocket update is bad at all, now the icon looks more like the mount

i mean they should have at least put on some hearts all over the icon tho

[young latch]

Wait are they expecting people who want the book mount to do every mage tower scenario in the span of two weeks?

Why do they keep doing stuff like this? XD

[silent urchin]

Presumably it'll still be available next time

but that's like 5+ months away

[strange falcon]

Ye it will prob be available everytime timewalkin is up

[young latch]

Specifically legion time walking though.

That’s so silly.

[left arch]

Am excited for mage tower

[young latch]

I don’t have 7 geared alts lying around.

[strange falcon]

I think they said it will scale you down

So you prob wont need geared alts

[strong nebula]

https://youtu.be/k6KD8SMsxhg

[ancient jasper]

It's funny that people have renamed boycotting to cancel culture to get a more angry reaction from it. Because that's pretty much what "cancel culture" is.

[left arch]

well i think cancel culture is a bit different than just boycotting

[cunning fossil]

cancel culture isn't a real issue

at least 60% of the time, it's just calling someone out on their bullshit

I don't wanna ge tinto that tho.

[cunning fossil]

Believe what you want but it's not

[dense plover]

Well - that doesn’t seem like the scrapping people wanted

Not saying you should get everything back, but if the point is to recraft your leggo, it would be nice to get some kind of base item - this is just going to make the bases even more expensive

I would rather get the item and no ash and half cinders or maybe even no cinders vs getting no item, especially if it’s Max tier

[upper pasture]

I’m kinda glad you don’t get the base item and missives. Could you imagine the market on those if you just needed one of each and could recycle them into whatever you needed with like 5-10 mins to spare

[ancient jasper]

That would screw the Crafters over, though.

[urban spire]

I think the bases being destroyed is fine

especially considering you're not going to use it for your next leggo, you're just gonna try to sell it

and then it just means eventually the market stagnates since eventually the amount of crafted legendaries that already exist being deconstructed and etc. will be enough to deal with the demand for them

I think blizzard just needs to make the leveling to craft the next tier not a thing

It's so stupid that you need to craft 15 items of the same thing per level

and then do that again 4 more times

it's a very stupid system

Like it's not the depth to crafting we need

[tropic trail]

9.2 when

[upper lantern]

9.1.5 release when

[ancient jasper]

9.2 probably around Spring next year. I'd say 9.1.5 late this month or early next.

[unborn glacier]

Nov 2nd

[ancient jasper]

Eh.. I don't see it taking nearly 2 more months

[primal dirge]

Is Nov 2nd when we hit 80 renown?

[mossy meteor]

no

october 19th is when we hit 80 renown

[primal dirge]

that's my guess for release then

or if it was ready early maybe they allow us to get 4 renown the last week and release on the 12th or 5th

[unborn glacier]

The 5th is a Thursday

[primal dirge]

No it isn't?

[left arch]

Oct 5 is a Tuesday

[unborn glacier]

Its definite not coming out before the end of October

[primal dirge]

idk oct 12 would be 6 weeks which was the same length as 905 ptr

[left arch]

at eod, no one really knows when it is going to come out

just speculations

[upper pasture]

i hope we get new allied races soon 😦

[dense plover]

unlikely

theyre literally still expanding the existing ones

how about they bring those up to par first?

[upper pasture]

i meant like maybe the next expansion or the end of this one but ya you do you i guess

[urban spire]

I think 9.2 will be around dec or jan

I can't see them waiting until spring after this shit show

[unborn glacier]

There is no way we're getting any of the Slands denizens as Allied races. It makes -100 sense lorewise

[urban spire]

9.1.5 in october

[upper pasture]

oh i agree

[urban spire]

like mid-late oct for 9.1.5 I thinks

[left arch]

kinda me too, but, at the same time i have no clue what race i would actually want to have - im more thinking of what next xpac is gonna be like

i want murlocs but unfortunately its unrealistic due to armor requirements etc

[urban spire]

honestly I'd be good with more race armors and more options over allied races rn

[unborn glacier]

Nah. 9.2 won't be until after Blizzconline 2022

[urban spire]

Maybe. I hope it's earlier though

[unborn glacier]

It won't be

[urban spire]

I don't think 9.3 is coming though

[unborn glacier]

100%

[urban spire]

I think we get 9.2, 9.2.5 and a new expac in dec 2022 or jan-feb 2023

[left arch]

well it is nearing that 2 year xpac timeline

[unborn glacier]

They will never drop an expansion in December.

[urban spire]

Then it will be jan-feb

I can't see them getting out a new expac earlier

due to the timeline issues they had with SL

unless they give it the WoD treatment and kind of give up on it after 9.2

[unborn glacier]

That will happen, yes

[left arch]

we shall see, none of us know what theyre cooking up in their studios

[urban spire]

true dat

[pulsar minnow]

I would love it too but as others have said they probably want to expand on the existing races. Hoping for Kyrian later on down the line, since lorewise the Armies of Azeroth are at an all-time low in terms of numbers and the Shadowlands races could restore their numbers

[unborn glacier]

That makes absolutely zero sense

[vernal juniper]

Can I stockpile codex rep item in bags or there is no point for the bonus rep

[vernal juniper]

shadowlands last week of november

[unborn glacier]

Yes, and Ion is on record saying they hated it.

[vernal juniper]

well the point is if they need to drop they drop

[upper pasture]

I wonder why a late nov launch did so poorly. You’d think with Christmas and all it would be a swell time but I guess with everything else coming out around then.

Then again if you do the launch earlier and have a .1 or a .2 patch dropping around Christmas you’ll get the same effect and do a sort of double dip around Christmas

So that could be it

[vernal juniper]

cause imo the exp sucks, they need to overwhelm people, the last time they did with legion and was a good exp.

if they can't give fresh content every 3 months, giving all free to people imo is the worse thing they can do.

[upper pasture]

lol thats never gonna happen

[vernal juniper]

legion was a success because people neened to farm all day to get legos and aritifact power.

[upper pasture]

but now people complain when they have to run something twice a week

[vernal juniper]

yep cause this is the wrong game for them and they don't understand.

in a mmo you need to farm, don't you like grinding? change game.

[upper pasture]

not really just they have unrealistic expectations for the rate of their growth

you're not a hardcore mythic raider you don't need everything done the first week its released

[vernal juniper]

the key is to be able to have the best gear possible

but also be able to do something else when you have everything

otherwise like I said 5 minutes ago, you need fresh content every 3 months.

or you will ending to run korthia in 2-3 alts for whatever reason istead of doing somehting fun

but we are at the point where rewards are meanless

even if they do like mage tower 2.0, proving ground 2.0 with new mounts new recolor ets

it will be a +1 in a 600+ mounts tab, who cares.

a lot of things can be done but they don't do anything risky and almost nothing is unique for no prestige

[urban spire]

but shadowlands is still way crappier than legion... it's not because of the grind it's because the grind sucks butt. Legion was grindy but it was a good grind. There are bad and good grinds in games. Shadowlands is just a bad grind. I love grindy games, I have 2000 hours in a game called rust which is literally a grinding simulator. I still hate shadowlands and it's not because of the grind

And it's not that you need to run it 2 times a week. Legion had that stuff too, it's just that the things you're grinding for are mundane af. In legion artifact power actually was cool (I liked it, I think it was a system just in need of refinement but as a whole not bad), because it worked like a talent tree. Soulbinds do not feel that good, in fact I hate soulbinds and conduits. They don't feel rewarding or fun to me. And the legendaries in legion were kind of annoying because if you had shit rng like me, you literally didn't have a legendary for the first 6 months of the expansion

so basically I think artifact power was an okay system that rewarded players grinding basically anything they wanted instead of forcing them to grind specific things like cough cough torghast cough cough

[subtle oar]

Because it's a Family holiday season. Majority of people aren't NEETs, they do actually spend time with family.

[urban spire]

shadowlands legendaries shouldn't exist imo as well. I think legendaries should just go back to being raid drops only or questlines. I think maybe making a new tier of crafted item that's not legendary but is it's own thing is a better idea

the crafted shit doesn't feel like it's very legendary

and it's a stupid grind to learn how to make the high tier stuff for no reason other than to make it so blizzard can sell more tokens

else they would have fixed it by now

[pulsar minnow]

How so?

[subtle oar]

Why would any of the Shadowlands Denizens leave the Shadowlands to take part of petty mortal contrivances?

[pulsar minnow]

Because some want to leave and have no confidence in "the purpose." Some Kyrian even mention that they want to leave.

[subtle oar]

Not after 9.1

The Kyrian change, adopting one of the Forsworns grievances

[pulsar minnow]

No like theres a Kyrian who literally mentions that she wants to visit Azeroth. Not a Forsworn

[subtle oar]

A single kyrian does not make enough reason. Even if she says she wants to visit, that only means visit.

[pulsar minnow]

They have all of eternity. Anything is a visit

[subtle oar]

We're in nop way getting Venthyr, Kyrian, Necrolords or Night Fae in any way. It would be an absolute destruction of the Lore

[pulsar minnow]

How so

There's nothing keeping them from coming to Azeroth after everything is said and done

[ancient jasper]

Lore was nuked when it turned out beings made by Denathrius in the Shadowlands have been pulling the strings for THE ENTIRETY OF WORLD OF WARCRAFT.

[pulsar minnow]

Heck whatever revelations we are gonna get about Azeroth could give all the reason we need for the races of the Shadowlands to join us in protecting Azeroth

Well all Denathrius did was just say that he owns the Dreadlords. That's it

[ancient jasper]

My point: Beings have been sent out of the Shadowlands since God knows how long. More beings leaving wouldn't screw it up any more.

[pulsar minnow]

Gotcha

[urban spire]

We still don't know how the expac ends though

it could be something that does mean we see shadowlands stuff in our world or it could mean the shadowlands gets sealed up again

[cunning fossil]

This would kill way to many cool playstyles in my opinion

[vernal tartan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/prgxje/unreleased_artifact_skins_would_be_a_great_reward/

[strange falcon]

Too much effort^

[left arch]

some of these really pretty

[vernal tartan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/prh8cb/unreleased_artifact_skins_would_be_a_great_reward/

Forgot to post the sheep!

[pulsar minnow]

The sheep already exists. It’s the Secret Appearance for Alun’eth

[strange falcon]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/sec-investigating-activision-blizzard-regarding-improper-disclosures-of-sexual-324247

[left arch]

I don’t think this has anything to do with the patch?

[pulsar minnow]

Well I think it has to do with the company and thus development

Since the employees are the ones that make stuff happen

Good to see action is being taken

Praying for a better Blizz

[urban spire]

I feel like some degree of the lower quality of the last few years can be attributed to a dogshit work environment

[left arch]

i would agree

activision alone dont have a good track record

[urban spire]

so I really hope things get better for the employees. I know some of them have nasty attitudes towards players and think our opinions mean nothing, but I like to think most of them are passionate about the game and want to make it better without being stressed or harassed anymore from the work environment.

[left arch]

i imagine harassment in the work place + activison being known for rushing things is just, a brew for disaster

so i do genuinely hope things get better for the employees

[tepid fiber]

Hopefully once everything is ironed out with the company, the community will be next

[left arch]

i mean i dont think it'll be perfect once they have been 'cleansed' but, i do believe they'll get a lot better

[urban spire]

how do you mean for the community @tepid fiber ? Just like in terms of trying to connect with the community more so than they have since legion ish?

[tepid fiber]

Nah--mostly in regards to the prominent toxicity and dirtbag attitudes

Don't need to go beyond the forums or even trade chat to see the tip of that iceberg

[urban spire]

ah yeah fair enough

I think moderation on the auto-detection side is pretty lax

lots of other companies have developed pretty good server side detection for pretty basic stuff in games that aren't even that crazy on the player interaction through chat

for example, rainbow six siege

like you do interact through it, but no where near to the degree as you do with wows chat

[strange falcon]

Chief legal officer quit,
Whos gonna deal with all the lawsuits now 😂 😂

https://www.pcgamer.com/blizzard-entertainment-chief-legal-officer-resigns/?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=socialflow

[vocal flint]

imagine shit being so bad that the person in charge of dealing with this garbage just ups and leaves.

wonder if you still gotta walk to your bosses officer or hr or w.e to hand over your resignation letter or you just shoot an email. it has to be different for higher tier level positions like that right?

[strange falcon]

Given how all these top places just topple over with no effort,i think you can just throw your resignation letter and get out

[ancient jasper]

So what are the odds Blizzard/Activision actually survive this shitstorm? lol

[dense plover]

Guaranteed

They’ve already replaced a lot of people

It’s not like this investigation hadn’t been ongoing

[strange falcon]

What's the odds they will make good games that aren't rivaling EA in greed?
Now thats a much less likely thing

[strange falcon]

And a lot of those top executives they hired have a track record of "protect the company,fuck the employees" so nothing much will prob change

[ancient jasper]

That was before the Investors and shit found out, @dense plover, and now you have Federal Agencies stepping in.

[left arch]

1. The chief officer states no mention of resigning due to the lawsuit and speaks highly of the company
2. Companies survive this shit all the time it’s not new
3. As Peach said, drastic changes have already been made and it’s very clear changes have been made whether people like them or not - if you don’t have any faith in the company then that’s your own opinion

[strange falcon]

"Changed have been made"
Oh im sure changing a painting of a woman into a fruit bowl surely fixed a lot of things at the company

Im sorry but thats never NOT going to be hilarious

[ancient jasper]

Drastic changes? Really? Where?

[dense plover]

They’ve fired like 13 people

Big people

[silent urchin]

The legal officer likely put their resignation in months ago. C level execs have long notice periods in most cases

[left arch]

I never said the painting had anything to do in relation to the company..

[tepid fiber]

It doesn't, it's just another dead horse to beat

But anywho, positions like CLO's are regularly rotated through within large companies. This one had only been with them for 3 years

And CLO's have very little to do with day-to-day operations

[strange falcon]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/overwatch-executive-producer-chacko-sonny-leaving-blizzard-entertainment-324265
https://www.wowhead.com/news/twin-consorts-and-big-love-rocket-renamed-in-patch-9-1-5-324270

I guess those 2 names are offensive to women now,the dictionary definition of consort for those who dont have it:
a wife, husband, or companion, in particular the spouse of a reigning monarch

[cunning fossil]

We all know it's dumb.
Tbh. They should just. Idk. Make it so that women aren't stereotyped in the game and they actually treat their employees with dignity irl

Like erasing women from the game just implies that women themselves are sexual.

And honestly. That's sexist as hell

[strange falcon]

"CANT BE SEXIST IF THERE IS NO WOMEN,JOHN"

Gigabrain thinking at blizzard

[dense plover]

its not dumb

you guys are thinking about this wrong

does the name being sexual or implying something sexual add to the game? does it expand on the lore? the answer so far has been no

so it doesnt need to be sexual

it doesnt need to be unnecessarily childish and immature

these are minor changes that can be made by a small group of devs without affecting time on patches and will make people more comfortable in the future

this doesnt hurt anyone

and it might not seem like it matters to YOU

but i promise there are people out there who found a mount being called a "love rocket" kinda gross

especially following the sexual allegations at the people who named these items

[cunning fossil]

Oh I'm not saying that this is outrageous or anything

I personally am completely indifferent of thus.

All I'm saying is that having sexual things in the game is A-ok for me.

Like, not in an "unga-bunga be horny way" but like a "lmao neat" kind of way. Like it's just something to look at/laugh at for me.
Tbh I didn't even think of Big Love Rocket that way at all

Or Twin Consorts

[cunning fossil]

Never said it hurt anyone either. I just hope this doesn't mean things can't be hot/attractive anymore.

Idk I just don't want some wierd "cleansing" phase where "Alright guys this is a lore only game. despite the lore being one of the most convoluted weirdest things I've ever had to follow No funny business!"

[dense plover]

hot/attractive is not the same as gross or immature

love rocket is not hot

creepy old sexual painting in an old manor isnt hot

consorts isnt hot

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

[cunning fossil]

I get that. And I'm again ok with these changes.

I legitimately didn't even know Twin Consort or Big Love rocket meant anything

Creepy wierd painting I can understand

[strange falcon]

as stated in the dictionary definition,consort is not sexual

[strange falcon]

and there's people out there that believe the earth is flat,and that [insert conspiracy here too

[strange falcon]

the people named these items are not necessarily the same people doing the harassment,and again for th 3055th time, changing big love rocket's name,doesnt do jack shit if they keep the abusers at the company

[strange falcon]

that's the message it's sending though, as a woman to be protected by abusers,you cannot be sexual at ALL not even in name

[strange falcon]

consort is a synonim of wife,specifically of a king,we gonna censor the word "wife" now?

[strange falcon]

so you cant have paintings of women that arent fully covered up in your home because it's "creepy old sexual painting"

[dense plover]

it CAN be'

context is everything in english

often times consort is used in the context of a sexual partner who is beholden to you, like a concubine

[dense plover]

theyve fired a bunch of them, investigation is ongoing, people renaming stuff arent responsible for firing people

[dense plover]

THERES NOTHING POSITIVE ABOUT THIS THOUGH

like - sexual for the sake of sexual IS BAD

INHERENTLY

because it treats women like objects

its treats them as something to be lusted after

instead of people to respect

anything in this game or any game where you could go "ha ha, bro, look at the cleavage on that chick in this painting designed by a lecherous dude" or anything similar fits into this vein

big love rocket is an excellent example of this attitude and it has never been an appropriately named item

saying its funny because YOU think so, doesnt mean it is

and just because "its a joke" doesnt mean its okay

[tepid fiber]

peach, you're trying to play chess with a pigeon rn

[cunning fossil]

I getcha.

TBH if they replaced the sexual shit with romance. I'd be all for it

Or literally just anything to make it feel more like a world

[young latch]

I think you can be pro-sex and not a misogynist. So I do think removing sexual references is misguided at best and is a case of optics.

[cunning fossil]

I have this belief as well.
Though, I admit I'm a bit more cough cough horni than most. So maybe it's brainrot.
(It's gay stuff tho so that doesn't exactly translate to this convo

[young latch]

Give women better pay and senior positions instead of removing the elvira costumes that show up on some characters.

[cunning fossil]

In all seriousness tho, I don't think sex/sexuality in media is an inherently bad in media. It just needs to be done sparingly and should have enough for all sexualities to be satisfied

(Aka. Give us hot ass guys too.

[young latch]

It just depends on the context and the audience.

[cunning fossil]

Yeah.
I mean like just don't do wierd shit for the sake of your male players

Give the female + bi/gay bois some himbo to gock at too.

[young latch]

Exactly

And the option to show as little skin as you want

Even the icc robes showing skin was pretty ridiculous

It was the freezing north

[cunning fossil]

Lmao

[cosmic beacon]

[subtle oar]

No

[left arch]

https://tenor.com/view/why-what-in-the-hell-oh-god-pizza-house-on-fire-gif-15536410

[strange falcon]

Saw this,was funni
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/329807329245659147/890208661157343293/n5rgm72g01p71.png

[subtle oar]

[vernal tartan]

Get ready your rotten 🥚 and 🍅 https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/pt8qwe/how_nowempyrean_twins_were_bodyguards_and_not/

[strange falcon]

No

[deep pawn]

ff14 doesn't get nearly as much criticism about it's skimpy clothing cause male chars can have it too

[silent urchin]

Can confirm. Have seen male characters wearing nothing but the 2B leggings. It's an experience.

[young latch]

guild wars 2 has this and better character models

[strange falcon]

I remember i quit GW2 mid leveling,before first expac,
Because the story up and ended,
And they told me "now go zone objectives to complete the zones,bye!"
And i wasnt about that

[haughty grotto]

Hi. Can anyone tell me where are the conquest, valor vendors on the ptr? I'm probably blind, ran around oribos a couple of times and can't find them

also can't find how to skip the covenant campaign :x

[dense plover]

You need to have completed it on a character so you need to have copied that character to ptr

[dense plover]

And I assume you mean the upgrade people in which case they’re in the room to the right of the covenant choice/map hall

Same as on live

Also it only skips the campaign for covenants you have completed. For covenants you haven’t you can purchase a 40 renown token on your main and mail it so the alt

But you still have to do each covenants quest line at least once

@haughty grotto make sense?

[haughty grotto]

I found the vendor just now, new heirloom broker next to flight path in oribos

I also copied 3 characters, which include all 4 campaigns completed between all of them, I swapped venthyr on my druid and still renown 1 and campaign not done

[dense plover]

You have to log in on each, and you have to buy the token from a korthia vendor with gold and the renown 40 token requires renown 80 or renown 60, not sure which

And I’m actually not sure how to skip the campaign once you have 40 renown but assuming it shows you having the achieve, it should work

[haughty grotto]

I did log on each, don't think we can buy the 40 renown since we're not 80 yet I think?

Never saw anything that would let me skip campaigns though, maybe it's just not on ptr, no idea.

[dense plover]

It requires 40 renown

Which is why the token exists and yeah, requires 80

[haughty grotto]

my main is 72 renown on ptr, should have been able to skip stuff, anyway, I'll try again tomorrow, thanks

[mossy meteor]

@haughty grotto you can get max renown on the ptr

the tauren trinketaur vendor has a 'renown for free' item which gives you ..well, renown

[haughty grotto]

neat thanks

[haughty grotto]

Just have to figure out the covenant renown skip and 3 soulbinds unlock, that does not seem to be working

[scarlet cloak]

https://eu.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/mage-tower-appeal-of-changes-for-next-patch-old-skins/316389 - Took time to write this post, and it did take time. I'm on break from my work life at moment and thought I'd share these thoughts for a game I do have passion for even if my time limited these days. Hope support can be received for the points made but please if disagreed in the changes for next patch it alright

[ancient jasper]

Good luck. Blizzard seems dead set on pleasing what seems to be a tiny portion of their playerbase with that decision.

[dense plover]

ah yes, the tiny majority of players who played legion when it was current

legion had the largest active player count in a LONG time. The amount of people that missed out on these rewards is a LOT smaller than you think

the fact that nearly every guardian M+ tank you encounter has that druid form should be enough to tell you

[tepid fiber]

Lots of rewards are only available during the patch it's live. It's incentive to play that patch while the content is live

[dense plover]

^^^^

this isnt new - it just was a lot of rewards b/c of recolors so people are OBSESSED

[tepid fiber]

I also think there's this weirdly growing trend of entitlement among players who feel like they deserve something despite not working for it, but that's a completely different issue

[dense plover]

honestly i kinda agree

FFXIV has a shit ton of stuff you cant get and they even will add it to their cash store

and yet people in wow are like "why cant i get this reward anymore, you arent listening to players!"

not to mention the fact that people seem to think they know how to design a game

reminds me of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3Apxjea2cs

[tepid fiber]

Lmao yeah basically

[dense plover]

and another one along the same lines: https://youtu.be/BN03iGAyHZw

[tepid fiber]

This is too funny and accurate

[strange falcon]

Im still salty about not being able to get the super cool pvp sets,but im not the one complaining about it.

I think the magetower discussion resurfaced specifically because of them reimplementing it

The way i would think of a win win
Would be to do exactly what they're doing with fel bear, give a new recolor of the same appearance,
So new players get that weapon model,and old players get a new recolor of it

[coarse quail]

I want that...

The war will return.

Between the alliance and the horde.

[strange falcon]

Had that in bfa,didnt work

[subtle oar]

No. It's a growing resentment of content being removed for the sake of the predatory practice of FOMO

[ancient jasper]

So, Peach, you think the MAJORITY of the people who played Legion would have an issue with Blizzard bringing back the Mage Tower skins? Because I call bullshit on that.

Also, Gumball, the whole entitlement thing is fucking stupid when no-one is asking for the shit to be handed to them. I, and most posters I've seen, would HAPPILY do whatever content Blizzard deemed appropriate to get a shot at them.

[vocal flint]

how bout and take this sitting down. new content with new rewards to gain from a new challenge

[strange falcon]

Idk man,i think blizz is more interesting in turning women into fruits atm than making new content

😂

[vocal flint]

blizzard is so busy with rehashing new content and fighting the lawsuits .... hope they remember to update the fight club

they removed the name of a dev in overwatch. from a pizza stand. cant have people getting triggered by a pizza name. all thos poor lactose intolerant people that cant eat pizza...

[dense plover]

i absolutely think if they did new colors of those models, like the fel bear, it would be fine

giving the old colors disvalues players work

even if its FOMO, it still feels bad

[ancient jasper]

Blizzard giving Bears a recolored form of their Werebear even contradicts the idiotic reasoning they gave in the same post

[strange falcon]

This is true,given "unique appearances not found anywhere else in the game" also applies to flails for prot pally and warr and quivers

Contradicting themselves within the same post

😂

[ancient jasper]

Also while not quite as much DH's don't have any other pure flame Warglaive

[vocal flint]

oh yeah i loved that shit

" we understand the important of giving merit to things players have done before. SO WE MADE A NEW SKIN THATS 10x BETTER THAN THE OLD ONE "

[strange falcon]

Might be unpopular opinion but i like my brown steroidbear more

[vocal flint]

honestly i wouldnt have minded a recolored weapon skin for every class

i get why bears get a new skin since you dont see their gear but

feels like every class should just get a new recolored weapon / armor if they are gona go that way

[dense plover]

its actually specifically because it has a unique model with unique animations vs other bear forms

the cat forms all use the same animations

so its only the bear form they wanted to give because its not just a unique skin but a wholly unique model for tanking with unique animations

[subtle oar]

https://www.wowhead.com/news/hand-glow-unique-customization-for-nightborne-coming-in-upcoming-9-1-5-ptr-build-324346

[dense plover]

holy shit

[ancient jasper]

Damn wish Worgen has got as much as Nightborne are getting lol

[dense plover]

they have all the human customizations

[ancient jasper]

Uh.. I personally made my Worgen to be.. ya know.. a WORGEN. Not a Human. The single most boring race in any fantasy game ever.

[dense plover]

a worgen is 50/50 tho

thats the whole point

if you want to play a beast person, the horde is waiting

[ancient jasper]

....

Ya, no, fuck that.

[left arch]

the horde is sexy

[ancient jasper]

Also Worgen getting copied Human customization is a shitty reason not to give them actual Worgen form customization.

[dense plover]

they did get them

but it would be weird for them to have jewelry or something for a WEREWOLF FORM

[ancient jasper]

Fur/Eye colors.. Woooo

[left arch]

Well I mean

its a werewolf

[dense plover]

^this

[left arch]

the tauren dont have a lot going on either, besides feathers and tribal markings but their lore is completely different

[dense plover]

highmountain actually have more choices now

b/c tail customization

[left arch]

yeah but my whole point is that the beast races dont really get a whole lot

probably because theyre beasts

[ancient jasper]

Scars. Optional tail that people have been begging for for ages. Not sure why you think Jewelry would be any more odd on Worgen than any other race.

[left arch]

im pretty sure no Worgen NPC has had any jewellery, so why would they give average characters the option?

[dense plover]

canonically worgen dont have tails

[ancient jasper]

I can show several pieces of Blizzard art that show them having tails.

[dense plover]

scars sure, LOTS of races still need scars

[dense plover]

older art

or concept art

concept art is NOT canon

[left arch]

Thats concept art. But also, in folklore, werewolves rarely have tails

[dense plover]

^^^^

[ancient jasper]

https://i.redd.it/3r5h8r0r22061.jpg

[dense plover]

its one of the big distinguishing factors that made people THINK werewolves were real

LOL

hearthstone isnt canon

not even a bit

[ancient jasper]

Uh bullshit on Werewolves rarely having tails

[dense plover]

traditionally

[ancient jasper]

Werewolves having tails makes sense considering their legs. Helps them balance.

[left arch]

in traditional folklore, you never see werewolves with tails. and i know that wow is a fantasy game - but it ties in with the folklore and, makes sense as to why worgen dont have tails

yeah but werewolves arent like, normal animals

theyre humanoids

[dense plover]

^when people saw wolves without tails, they thought they were werewolves

b/c wolves have tails

but fun fact, animals get injured

so thats part of where the myth came from

but again, no canon wow worgen have tails

theyve said worgen dont have tails

hearthstone doesnt care

scars are fair tho

lots of races need scars still

and they need to go and separate them out for humans

[ancient jasper]

Only person I see saying Worgen don't have Tails is Christie Golden

[left arch]

Worgens haven’t had tails in wow since day 1, a lot of pictures you see with tails is made by fans and not actual developers and game artists.

[cunning fossil]

We should have tails anyways

If enough people want it, why not?

"Muh fantasy" is not gonna be ruined by optional tails.

[strange falcon]

you'd be surprised by some people

[daring dune]

There is worgen paladin in hs bg, is this possible?

Never heard of worgen paladins

And u cant play them

[tepid fiber]

Hearthstone isn't canon

Hearthstone content regularly strays from canon

It's just a fun card game with flashy lights

[tropic trail]

But I still wish they made Gadgetzan half as cool as it is in Hearthstone

It's an urban city in Hearthstone, but in WoW, it's just a wall with some buildings inside of it

[cosmic beacon]

I remember playing the mean streets of gadgetzan expansion and then playing wow not long after and being like, what....

Where did the cool city go

[cunning fossil]

No where

Because the HS team is a bit more creative than the WoW team

And they can be more creative. So that's a thing as well

Tbh of they made Gadgetzan how it is in MSoG

It'd be an awesome new experience. But it's more likely that we'll go even deeper into the cosmos or whatever the fuck

Fighting stars or something

Worgen Paladins wouldn't be the worst thing tbh

Like, what if you were a member of the light before and pledged allegiance before we you got cursed?

Does the curse suddenly stop your connection to the light? The answer is no cuz u can still play a Priest

[subtle oar]

@cunning fossil We've been told that how Gadgetzan looks in HS is how it looks canonically in wow now, its just not currently represented

[cunning fossil]

Well they better hop to it.
I would like a world update to make it feel.like a

World

[subtle oar]

WoW does need a Cata lvl revamp

[cunning fossil]

And to make the world part of the name relevant

I havn't left SL zones for a year man

The character's are the only things keeping me going T^T

[visual vortex]

Excuse me but how often is PTR playable? And when will it be back up this time?

[dense plover]

its currently up

[visual vortex]

Oh alright thank you

That’s really good news for me 🙂

[dense plover]

i mean - it isnt free wow

lots of stuff doesnt work

[visual vortex]

Oh no I’m looking for some friends on PTR that’s all

I don’t know what they play on live so I can’t find them there

[strange falcon]

^

[mossy meteor]

tested antorus normal

its nice to be able to clear everything with any issues

especially aggramar

[dense plover]

Feel like the inclusive gender consorts is the best solution

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna be honest here. I didn’t even know the trash in that part of karazahn was only female. I just don’t care tbh

I see trash and the only thing I’m looking at is the dps meter when I press all my CDs

[vernal tartan]

Checked Black Temple, and 👀 https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/pyg5hn/den_of_mortal_delights_now_has_both_male_and/

But I've also found two more npcs in the 9.1.5 list, and I dunno where are they from... https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=183423/reformed-bachelor https://ptr.wowhead.com/npc=183424/virtuous-gentleman

[vernal tartan]

Ah, derp, it's just from the new Karazhan. Gotta find who these two are replacing then.

The Host npc is also updated in new Kara.

[vernal tartan]

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/pyhabw/some_hosts_from_karazhan_have_horns_or_dh_skin/

[cunning fossil]

I approve I this.

[silent urchin]

I await all the "IS ILLIDAN GAY" clickbait youtube videos

[sullen dawn]

Clearly he isnt

[tepid fiber]

Regardless, he'll never get over Tyrande

Plus he's in the forever box with Sargeras

[cunning fossil]

https://twitter.com/BenGrandblade/status/1443628620652552195?s=19

🅱️en Grandblade 🌱💙 (@BenGrandblade)

@WNK_Life https://t.co/BsXF61unKE

Twitter · Sep 30, 2021, 5:27 PM

The highlight of this is

"An example of a post-9.1.5 improvement is the creation of an incubus demon, which we can add to places where succubus models currently appear."

I'm sold Blizzard. Sign me the fuck up.

INCUBUS CONFIRMED BOIS

[tepid fiber]

It better get a warlock glyph

[cunning fossil]

"We're also planning to make the incubus a glyphable option for Warlocks when they summon that classification of demon."

It isss

[tepid fiber]

Nice

[cunning fossil]

Gonna play my Warlock more after this

[tepid fiber]

@granite imp Look, good news for your warlock!

[cunning fossil]

I hope the gamer dudes keep crying about it but like seriously.
This post is actually a feels good post

IMO

Not condescending

Not We know better

Just "this is what we're doing and why we're doing it"

[slender quest]

an male incubus? that's cool

[left arch]

So are succubus being replaced by incubus entirely or?

[cunning fossil]

No no it's a glyphable option

[left arch]

Ohhhg

[cunning fossil]

And they are adding some where appropriate

I.E The black temple

[left arch]

Either way very neat

[cunning fossil]

The gamer lords in the Wowhead comments

LMAO they keep seething

[left arch]

I am intrigued so I am going to look

Yeah peeps are pretty salty in the comments

[tepid fiber]

"Hey we're adding more stuff and variety and options"
"REEEEEE"

[cunning fossil]

They always use the "SJW" BS

Like I really think it's just an excuse to be a shit head

Hello @subtle oar would u like to provide your input? :P

Still though. Hopefully Blizz as a whole does more stuff like this IRL too.
Then maybe we can get back to complaining about JUST in game topics

[left arch]

I personally think it’s a neat idea

But not everyone will agree

[cunning fossil]

What's a beat idea?

[left arch]

I said neat silly

[cunning fossil]

I meant neat :P

[left arch]

Well

I mean like

I think it would be a good idea

Adds diversity

[cunning fossil]

No no I mean

[tepid fiber]

Yep, more options

[cunning fossil]

WHAT is a neat udea?

[tepid fiber]

Having more options

[cunning fossil]

Sorry I'm just confused as to what refered to eheh

[tepid fiber]

And variety

[cunning fossil]

OH I'm 100% for that

Sorry if that wasn't clear

[subtle oar]

Disregarding someone's view outright for being a "shithead", nor cool, Wai

[left arch]

The incubus/succubus stuff I was primarily referring to

[subtle oar]

I like the incubus thing.

[cunning fossil]

Well I do not disregards people's view

I listen to it. And then make my own assessment.

[left arch]

And also in #transmog apparently blizzard is like… still supporting current gear and wants to promote uniqueness amongst players and such. So I was also indirectly saying that was neat as well with the changes

[cunning fossil]

Sometimes I will agree with a bit and disagree with a bit more

It happens

[tepid fiber]

That was what the Twitter post above was referring to

[left arch]

Oh oh oh

This is good

[tepid fiber]

I dm'd Garrugoose the link when he asked in #transmog because it's still technically future content

[jade basalt]

I think they're going to have to fix the whole Hozen language

Go mank a slicky, wicket. In fact, go mank two while one manks you from behind and the other manks your dooker.

[pulsar minnow]

okay thats sick

[cunning fossil]

fuck yeeeah

[pulsar minnow]

I really hope they don't just make it the same as the succubus but just male. Like give them some crazy glaive whip thing

[cunning fossil]

I just want them to look hot

[pulsar minnow]

Like this guy

some new succubus customization

hell

[cunning fossil]

If I wanted a DH pet, I could find on in M+ >:O

[pulsar minnow]

DEMON CUSTOMIZATION

LETS DO IT

[cunning fossil]

Still though, it better be hot

[pulsar minnow]

hot you say?

[tepid fiber]

What about ||doomguards||

[cunning fossil]

A little face lift and she would be my type

[cunning fossil]

Yes I Do mean HOT motherfucker >:O

[tepid fiber]

Female infernal models when

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I kinda wish we could enslave any demon we find and replace our current ones with them

Sorta like hunters

[dense plover]

Tbh, I would love a traditional incubus, but I know that’s not what we will get

We will probably just get a male succubus

[cunning fossil]

wouldn;t they just be Steven Universe? Female rocks

[cunning fossil]

booo

[tepid fiber]

Idk I don't watch pokemon

[cunning fossil]

Nooooo

I thought you were CULTURED

[subtle oar]

SU is NOT cultured

[icy valley]

Is the Timewalked Mage Tower on the PTR yet?

[tight ferry]

Nope.

[upper lantern]

wtb 9.1.5 release date 😦

[strange falcon]

Prob november to fight their rival MMO

[tight ferry]

Well I sure thought there would be more in it.

[strange falcon]

Nah its the "retain the whales and the people still on copium" patch,
Like a christmas tree full of gifts after 6years of being an abusive dad

[tight ferry]

Druid bug is still around if Ya log out in flight form you log in in travel form.

Meaning if Ya flying you fcked.

Btw I don't think they did it because of the backlash they do this every start of expansion so they retain sub numbers making everything as tedious as possible so you need to log in each day for something.

Blizz doesn't give a fck. And wow is pocket change. They could shut it down tomorrow and don't even feel the profit loss. According to the income of it.

[left arch]

You say that as if any company cares for people

They care about money and that’s it

[tight ferry]

Oh there are plenty of companies who care and would be ashamed if they acted like they do. They just not as big as this one.

[strange falcon]

In the last 5 to 10 years,the keyword has been "reject AAA,return to indie"
If you want games that arent designed and pushed out with the singular burning thread of boundless greed going through every fiber and decision

[tight ferry]

True that. But indie companies will never have the budget for a wow sized mmo.

[left arch]

Atm I can’t think of any games that I play that are labeled as indie games - but I also have a bad memory and don’t really pay attention to those “labels”

[strange falcon]

Mmos are the most expensive genre to make,true

[strange falcon]

"Indie" is a game from a small studio,
TripleAAA is from the major corporations like EA or Ubisoft,

Hades is an indie,Hollow Knight is an indie, to cite just two

[left arch]

Ahhh okay okay

I know some major companies I have games from is obviously blizzard, Bethesda, EA, and I can’t think of any others atm

Oh rockstar too, which rip rockstar

[strange falcon]

RIP the tripleA gaming industry in general,the lawsuits at blizzard are the norm in the rest of the industry

[left arch]

I just feel like rockstar kinda gave up entirely
Their most popular games are riddled with hackers

[strange falcon]

Have you seen botters in blizzard games

[left arch]

I mean I’ve seen boomkins but that’s it

[balmy gate]

Wow, so much burn in here. 🔥

[tepid fiber]

When all you say is negative complainer bs, eventually something sticks that someone agrees with. Sadly, you can't give it much merit because all they say is negative complainer bs

[strange falcon]

oh hello gumball 👋

[subtle oar]

That has nothing to do with ptr

But thx

[tepid fiber]

There really just needs to be a complaint box and venting channel

Keep it contained

I mean specifically for complaints, venting, and bitching