Blizzard has a horde bias lol
#beta-ptr-spoilers
slate ingot
dense plover
lol
slate ingot
Don't be in denial
dense plover
youre shitting me right?
slate ingot
White knight much
uncut vault
Manaless, have you actually played the alpha? Cause Drustvar has a coherent, interesting story
dense plover
we lost cairne in a book
slate ingot
It doesn't tgo
uncut vault
Order of Embers stuff is great
dense plover
^\
slate ingot
Drustvars story is bad
meager warren
uncut vault
But have you actually played the alpha?
dense plover
since you seem to know so much?
heavy cairn
yknow, I like the fun discussions we have, but I'm going to leave if you're just arguing about unfinished, unfinalized content
meager warren
Manaless is probably just complaining because they have nothing better to do
dense plover
^
slate ingot
I'm more than one person?
dense plover
seems like it considering the bullshit being spewed
heavy cairn
dense plover
^
meager warren
^
slate ingot
Using Wikipedia as a source for English lol
meager warren
LOL
floral grotto
Not knowing the basics of pronouns. lol
dense plover
^
heavy cairn
[Manaless] I'm not using it as a source personally. I knew of singular "they" before googling it just now to grab that wikipedia link. but it's a quick way to get started before you actually look at more reliable sources
meager warren
wikipedia is a lot more reliablle than most shit
slate ingot
God I forget how toxic most of this community is
floral grotto
Honey, no one was being toxic.
meager warren
^
heavy cairn
to be fair, you're the only one acting remotely toxic
complaining about horde bias and the like based off of early alpha content
uncut vault
complains about shit they dont know about or havent tested
slate ingot
Lol no
slate ingot
I don't think you know what that word means
sharp bluff
Horde leaders lost count: Baine, Garrosh, Voljiin, Sylvanis at least twice, Thrall kinda left us, the Belf guy betrayed us, Goblin guy betrayed goblins
floral grotto
You were complaining endlessly, someone pointed out you were complaining endlessly. And we educated you on pronouns. That's not toxic.
meager warren
Says that both Zandalar and Kul'tiras are amazing
Gets talked over.
Gets called toxic
slate ingot
Asserting facts isn't complaining
sharp bluff
Alliance: the only good human
meager warren
what facts?
meager warren
^
slate ingot
It is your just to oblivious to it
heavy cairn
you're arguing opinion not fact, and stuff in early alpha may be a fact but it's a fact that doesn't matter at all since it's changing before live
dense plover
grow the fuck up
uncut vault
tfw people dont know that two entirely different continents have separate aesthetics, and you dont have to enjoy both
dense plover
if you dont want to participate in a coversation, fine. then go
floral grotto
Peach, relax.
dense plover
dont just say everyone else is wrong and go on complaining
slate ingot
Naw you should pay attention to the shit blizzard is pulling
dense plover
its rude, and adds nothing to any conversation
floral grotto
Don't pull out the profanity. There's no reason for it.
meager warren
Manaless should also pay attention
dense plover
^
floral grotto
I agree
meager warren
And hey, imo there isn't any word that is "profane" as long as it's not directed towards anyone
slate ingot
Instead of being ignorant to it there is a blatant bias and its comical how many people don't see it
heavy cairn
๐ฟ
dense plover
if only you see something, then it isnt there
meager warren
Manaless, i see it.
Trust me.
We all see it.
dense plover
thats called a conspiracy
wide lance
tin foil hats!
dense plover
its a normal thing the human brain does
meager warren
Alliance and Horde both get everything they ask for but both sides complain no matter what
dense plover
we look for patterns
slate ingot
But hey go ahead and stick with the guise of alpha is alpha its not a conspiracy when they've done the same thing for years
dense plover
we put them together
uncut vault
I can agree that Horde zones and races got more focus. But that doesnt mean that the Alliance ones didnt, or that their stuff is objectively bad.
sharp bluff
๐ฟ ๐ฎ ๐พ
dense plover
and then make a decision about that pattern, whether the decision is educated or not
yeah horde stuff is just a lot more finished
its extremely obvious just by looking at the zones themselves
meager warren
tbf, a conspiracy is something that is actually happening.
A conspiracy theory is something that some asshole made up
uncut vault
They clearly spent the brunt of their initial time on Zandalar, as it is basically finished
floral grotto
I'll wait till beta hits before I begin making opinions on what's going on with this. Alpha is still unfinished stuff.
uncut vault
Kul Tiras very clearly is not
dense plover
alpha can mean rewriting an entire storyline
they did it for highmountain
and a bit for azsuna too
suramar wasnt even implemented for most of alpha
floral grotto
And they simply could be working on one side first and then the other. We truly don't know.
meager warren
What if Manaless is just mad cause Alliance isn't getting those sweet orcs
uncut vault
I also have another simple tip: you arent bound to one faction
meager warren
^
wide lance
I'm ok being orcless
uncut vault
if horde content is so good, go play horde content
floral grotto
I am
floral grotto
I'm not dragging my decade old guild Horde side.
meager warren
i need to get a 110 ally b4 bfa hits
dense plover
Boost
meager warren
no
dense plover
or allied race
meager warren
boosts are for plebs
dense plover
not to use to unlocked allied races
and then level the allied race
(which is what I did with the 100 boost)
meager warren
why
and i have a 100 draenei shaman so using a 110/ 100 boost would be kinda stupid
heavy cairn
what's the big deal if you already have a 100 shaman>
legion content is very quick compared to older content
floral grotto
Broken Isles invasions with heirlooms are your best friend
meager warren
because i hate my shaman
floral grotto
I love my shaman.
heavy cairn
who cares? get on your flying mount, hover over the broken isles, get into groups for invasions, get XP
you don't even have to PLAY (though you would be a waste of group space technically)
meager warren
pffff
strange falcon
i like my sham too
meager warren
ye, everytime i do nothing in a group, i get kicked.
not happening
floral grotto
Eh... I kick people who don't participate.
meager warren
^
floral grotto
People need to play the game.
heavy cairn
fine. I guess I never tried not participating. well let me rephrase, you don't need to concentrate on playing
heavy cairn
how exactly do you die when you have a group tho?
meager warren
NEVER UNDERESTIMATE MY POWER
heavy cairn
hm, I've levelled at least half my alts (so 6+) using them and only when I was stubborn and wasn't in a group did I die
well, I guess some people have more alts than me
ยฏ_(ใ)_/ยฏ
floral grotto
Especially in Highmountain. The one with the wolves and the one in the cave are a pain.
Otherwise, I don't usually die.
heavy cairn
alright thanks for the insight
meager warren
lol
usually it's the opposite for me. i know, 80% of the time, what my character can do. the other 20% of the time, i'm dying. Or, when i'm in a group and the tank pulls EVERYTHING, thereby overloading the healer's abilities and killing us all or a dps pulls shit and everybody dies or healer only heals tank and doesn't pay any attention whatsoever to dps
ye, needless to say, not a fan of groups
hollow dock
For me its; I know what I can survive until I don't. Like that jump I miscalculated and overshot.
meager warren
kek
hollow dock
Gravity is my arch-nemesis in all RPGs.
heavy cairn
I just avoid jumping down even sorta-closes distances on classes with no ability to cancel fall damage
hollow dock
So only hunters, DHs, and mages jump?
heavy cairn
hunters (disengage) (oh you said that), shaman (that wind thing), priests (levitate), there are more, I think...
meager warren
what, hunters can cancel fall dmg?
strange falcon
technically you can use flap for druids
heavy cairn
druid flap, thanks, also paladin bubble
meager warren
drlap
strange falcon
warrior heroic leap
heavy cairn
yea heroic leap but I generally avoid doing that unless I tested it before since it's unreliable
meager warren
a fall a day keeps the doctor away
hollow dock
If you disengage at a reasonable distance from the ground it 'resets' the fall
and thus reduces the fall damage
meager warren
heroic leap doesn't work on falling dmg
hollow dock
heroic leap does if you time it right
meager warren
unless ur that good
strange falcon
it does
heavy cairn
heroic leap does work, just in general it says "no path available" (at least it feels like it's in general, perhaps I don't remember all the times it succeeded)
hollow dock
As again, it 'leaps' you to the ground.
Never said that for me. Unless I was leaping onto a mountain.
meager warren
hopefully they make its distance farther.
i wanna jump from New Dalaran down to Nighthold.
hollow dock
You can do that with a glider
strange falcon
if you are jumping between buildings it may say "no path available" as there is in fact no walkable path available
meager warren
Heaven? wat
heavy cairn
warrior class hall = halls of valor
meager warren
Heaven =/= Halls of Valor
heavy cairn
and warriors get out by jumping down to earth
meager warren
^
hollow dock
so yes it is a heaven
heavy cairn
it's vrykul heaven
meager warren
eh
hollow dock
Valhalla being the Viking Heaven
heavy cairn
whether it's heaven or not, it's higher in the sky than "new" dalaran and you can land anywhere on the broken isles (well, a few set locations)
meager warren
Valhalla lets more people in than Abrahamic Heaven :khadgarface:
Yeah, religious myth is discriminate af
hollow dock
let's not get into that
meager warren
2l8 m8
heavy cairn
not really
just delete the message as it contributed nothing to the conversation
and carry on
meager warren
ur the one who started talking about heaven
meager warren
"the sky"
"heaven"
one is easier to say and the other has a lot of... controversy behind it
hollow dock
We started talking about it because its something that is being done.
Halls of Valor is the Heaven of Vrykuls. Warriors leap down and sometimes back up to it.
floral grotto
^
heavy cairn
don't they leap up more than they leap down?
hollow dock
they only got six places to leap up to it
heavy cairn
there's no way to get there except leaping up, meanwhile you can get out without leaping down
so, while each leap down must be accompanied by a leap up (meaning leaps down at max = leaps up), not every leap up needs to be accompanied by a leap down
hollow dock
I remember a time when you could leap up at any time anywhere.
heavy cairn
yes, in the alpha, I heard
every class got a teleport
I wish DHes still had a portal :(
all hero classes deserve it
uncut vault
they should have had their own death gate
hollow dock
all classes deserved a teleport in there
heavy cairn
[porter] they did until it got removed
uncut vault
that said, the way they get to their class hall is ๐
meager warren
all classes deserve a teleport to their class hall like DKs
heavy cairn
but gliding down was a pain
hollow dock
and mages
heavy cairn
slower than just riding to a portal
hollow dock
and monks
and druids
essentially, everyone except hunters, shamans, warriors, etc.
heavy cairn
only the classes that had a teleport before get a teleport now. the issue I see is that the teleport was basically useless before (minus mages' teleports, but that's one of the features of the class, not something arbitrarily decided for a set of classes) but now it's really useful
meager warren
at least we still have the hearthstones
hollow dock
Give that 1/3rd their teleports
Hunters can call down an eagle
Shamans open an elemental rift
Warriors just leap like the hulk
who else
meager warren
Shamans can't open an elemental rift from anywhere on Azeroth
hollow dock
quiet you
meager warren
Warriors can't access their class hall from anywhere on Azeroth
Hunters can't call down an eagle from anywhere on Azeroth
heavy cairn
why can we call our mounts anywhere on azeroth and even on draenor...?
meager warren
wat
hollow dock
I whistle for it for petes sake
The animation for mounting the Huntsmaster Wolfhawk (the hunter class mount) is you whistling for it
meager warren
Huntmasters Wolfhawk isn't an eagly ffs
heavy cairn
hunters can call an eagle to fly them to class hall, warriors can call a val'kyr to make a trampoline, warlocks can signal their other warlocks using magic to start a summoning ritual, etc.
meager warren
but instead of a lion, it's a wolf
jade basalt
Actually Odyn and his val'kyr could call down a beam for you to leap up/down anywhere. The reason there's only 6 or so, one in each region for you to reach, is just gameplay.
hollow dock
WARLOCKS TELEPORT DOWN VIA DEMONIC CIRCLE
no
but its something they can do
that green portal thing they make. Summoning Circle I think it is
meager warren
they can only summon people to their location with summoning portal. can't teleport themselves anywhere iirc with it
heavy cairn
the teleport thing they can use remotely is "demonic circle"
hollow dock
Demonic circle thats what it is
jade basalt
They also got the 2 portals they can place
jade basalt
To leap from one spot to the other r
heavy cairn
gateways are leaping from one spot to another
hollow dock
yea thats not really teleportation.
heavy cairn
I don't think it's a good idea to leap across a continent using them
hollow dock
I mean
heavy cairn
unless you have like 20 gateways in a chain instead of just 2
hollow dock
as long as you dont hit anything
you should be fine
but if you do hit something
well.
cue the ending of TLJ
jade basalt
The reason they only take you like only 10 ft forward is because of gameplay again. Technically portal gateways could take you anywhere (well, depends on how powerful you make them), hell you even take one to reach Dreadscar Rift.
meager warren
*Warrior tries to jump from Eastern Kingdoms to Northrend. Splats on the side of Highmountain
heavy cairn
the gateways aren't teleportation portals
they just make you into a ball and throw you to the other gateway
hollow dock
Yea. The gateways need to be in the same plane of existance. (as the one that takes you to the Dreadscar IIRC has a portal in it.)
heavy cairn
you can't do that across long distances or through dimensions
hollow dock
the normal ones dont
well we can. We take a gateway up onto a legion ship
just gameplay restricts that
cuz that'd be broken
Imagine WSG with a global gateway
heavy cairn
well yes clearly warlocks have access to cross-world stuff
but the "demonic gateway" spell isn't going to cut it
hollow dock
demonic circle channel
heavy cairn
whatever legion uses or dreadscar rift uses would work
jade basalt
They are literally called 'Demonic gateways', this is what gateways do in lore. But for very obvious reasons yours can only be like 10 ft apart and you can't put one on each continent.
meager warren
well, hey.
Gul'dan was a warlock and he did it cross timelines
heavy cairn
again, it's not the same type of gateway
meager warren
shhh
heavy cairn
in lore the warlock's demonic gateway isn't really there, but I'm sure it would be if raid encounters existed...
my guess is that "throwing the ball" consumes less energy than a true portal
cuz fel-powered portals consume life, which isn't very helpful when you're trying to send living things through them
hollow dock
I mean
just sacrifice a few demons
not like we're running out of those anytime soon
heavy cairn
true teleportation really only matters long distance if you're not a nightborne
jade basalt
It's a Demonic gateway. That's all. It literally says it takes you through the Nether. It's a gateway like all the others. It's just that for gameplay reasons they can only take you 10 ft further.
heavy cairn
so that's why the ball is thrown instead of extra energy being consumed
meager warren
so demons are gonna be a problem for a while.
We're gonna need more DHs in that case
TROLL DH CONFIRMED
heavy cairn
traveling through the nether isn't teleportation, it just has its benefits
meager warren
how about those rogue stealths tho.
where do they go when they vanish? ๐ค
hollow dock
in the shadows
heavy cairn
in lore they probably aren't invisible, they are in the physical world just hiding in places that aren't obvious to people looking around
jade basalt
It's a gateway. I really don't see what there is to discuss. It's a demonic gateway like all the others. There's even one that looks exactly like yours in Dalaran that takes you to Dreadscar Rift, it's just that for gameplay reasons yours don't allow you to go to other worlds and continents, but just 10 ft.
heavy cairn
"It literally says it takes you through the Nether."
my demonic gateway does not say that
jade basalt
Yes it does, check your debuff.
heavy cairn
being faded into the nether doesn't necessarily mean the gateway was used through the nether
could just be a side-effect
heavy cairn
that's just a random reason to have a 90 second cooldown for gameplay reasons
jade basalt
Yes. It also means you were faded through the Nether.
It's a gateway. I really don't see what there is to discuss. It's a demonic gateway like all the others. There's even one that looks exactly like yours in Dalaran that takes you to Dreadscar Rift, it's just that for gameplay reasons yours don't allow you to go to other worlds and continents, but just 10 ft.
They have the same name, they have the same look, they have the same functionality.
It's just a gateway.
Nothing contradictory about them.
meager warren
Quiet, you don't need to say the same thing twice
heavy cairn
repeating yourself isn't going to change the fact that both the debuff and the spell are only for gameplay. so we have no proof that such a gateway requires fading into the nether, nor that it's actually done by throwing a ball (because such a spell doesn't happen in the lore)
so both of us are wrong, I guess
floral grotto
What did I miss while I was cooking dinner?
jade basalt
discards all the proofs
"we have no proof"
The flavor text of the debuff says you were faded through the Nether.
heavy cairn
just like the DK resurrection debuff says void-touched even tho shadowlands is distinct from void
meager warren
Quiet, are u new here?
People use logical fallacies all the time here
heavy cairn
it's random text meant to sound cool that doesn't really have lore basis
jade basalt
@heavy cairn You realize you can use Shadow/Void magic to rez people/reanimate right ?
heavy cairn
yes, but the death knights use necrotic magic
jade basalt
They also use Shadow.
heavy cairn
but they use necrotic to reanimate the dead.
steel venture
Don't frost DKs use shadowfrost ffs
meager warren
OSX, by that logic, no text in the game has lore basis and is just meant to sound cool
steel venture
literally the lich king himself used shadowfrost
jade basalt
We can see the Shadowmoon animating the bones of their ancestors with Void magic.
Nothing weird about Shadow being used to rez.
heavy cairn
[edgy] not really. these debuffs both existed before lore really existed for void & nether
so since they touch on them it's safe to assume they are inaccurate
steel venture
but it doesnt mean they aren't canon
heavy cairn
unless it's been proven otherwise
steel venture
you realize the shadowlands is literally the fucking land of the dead right?
and the raise ally spell taps into the shadowlands to bring the player back
heavy cairn
shadowlands is not void tho despite "shadow" being in the name
it's decay / necrotic
jade basalt
Look, it's called a demonic gateway, like all the other, many demonic gateways, and it looks like a demonic gateway, so really there's not much debate to have.
meager warren
Bliz isn't very good at keeping shit consistent.
They've retconned shit so much that anything we can think of about the topic, based on the old lore, is likely to be conjecture
heavy cairn
[quiet] fine. warlocks could have a gateway across content
I wasn't arguing against that anymore.
steel venture
Like, you're not going to disprove Mind.
Mind literally is one of the folk that catalogues. All of this.
heavy cairn
I was arguing against the validity of the ingame ability
jade basalt
Yes they could and they literally make one in the warlock campaign, which is the one you later use to reach your order hall
steel venture
most spells are canon.
steel venture
just how they WORK might be limited by lore.
meager warren
tbf, Mind is showing their foolishness by arguing with a fool
"When you argue with a fool, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"
heavy cairn
I'm a "fool"?
meager warren
ur both fools
steel venture
or how they work by lore isn't respresented because it'd be game-breaking.
basically.
floral grotto
Xan is correct.
heavy cairn
I agree with xan
meager warren
we've done a lot of lore-breaking shit at this point so why not game-breaking
floral grotto
We have?
heavy cairn
so you call people fools for so-called "fallacies" yet you display similar patterns
meager warren
that's not why i called u fools
steel venture
EX: Resurrection is typically more difficult than gameplay makes it seem. (Lore-limitation.)
But mages and warlocks get limited by game mechanics for balance reasons. Otherwise portals and gateways would be more broad. (Game-limitation.)
floral grotto
You're not going to live that one down, Edgy.
meager warren
Anyway,
we killed Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, the Sha, Avatar of Sargeras, Deathwing, Ragnaros, Argus, and other shit
heavy cairn
"Quiet, are u new here?
People use logical fallacies all the time here"
(implying me)
"OSX, by that logic, no text in the game has lore basis and is just meant to sound cool"
(reinforcing that)
... no other comments that really edge towards "fool", until...
"tbf, Mind is showing their foolishness by arguing with a fool"
(so, you are either just calling us names for no reason that we know of or you are calling us names based off of the only reason you gave, which to be fair isn't the most logical)
meager warren
all of that, i think is pretty lore-breaking
no, that was to Quiet's claim that there was proof against your claim that there wasn't proof.
Did that specifically refer to you? No. It's not implying you.
Reinforcing what?
I called you both fools because that argument is likely never going to end until you both sit down and talk by listening to the other
heavy cairn
it was implying me because he was talking to me, and you were implying it was someone other than quiet by using "people"
heavy cairn
so, "literally everyone"
that smells pretty fallacious to me. I find it unlikely that everyone exhibits a certain trait. almost everyone? sure
meager warren
Hey, i don't discriminate. i hate everyone equally
heavy cairn
most fallacies are probably not based off of your opinion. I don't get why you are using your feeling of "hate" as justification, except to provide another example of a fallacy.
steel venture
Kil'jaden's defeats = Armies, by lore. Both times.
Archimonde's defeats = Supernatural beings the first time, and some of the most powerful forces of Draenor the second time.
Deathwing = The Dragon Soul did the final blow, and Maddness of Deathwing isn't really Deathwing anymore, it is the possessed, deceased husk of his corpse. Horde and Alliance armies involved.
Ragnaros = Already suffered defeat by a large army in the past, and then another at his doorstep. Once again, not a singular effort.
Argus = The most powerful individuals of Azeroth, aided by the titans, slew Argus. And there was a massive campaign to get to this point?
Sha = Sha are simple enough to be felled by adventurers, and the larger ones. Doubt, Fear, etc? ... Campaigns for those. Again.
By lore it is never JUST 10-25 people.
So don't even pull that card.
meager warren
if i acted rationally all the time, would i deserve this nickname? ;)
heavy cairn
I highly doubt that is fully canon
steel venture
It isn't.
heavy cairn
"pulled aggro" doesn't happen in lore
he doesn't "drop a glaive"--at least a real lore character would not say it like that
steel venture
The depiction in the Illidan novel is the canon version.
steel venture
I do appreciate how they're deciding what kills whent to which faction though.
EX: Lady Vashj was an Alliance kill, Mag was a Horde kill.
since both factions needlessly spreading their resources to try to take out the EXACT same threat versus neutralizing things on a wider scale makes no sense
especially when some kills made no sense to be by both factions
sharp bluff
Who won the ship battle in ICC lore wise?
steel venture
Not sure if addressed previously, but is it mentioned in the Chronicle previews so far Mind? @jade basalt
steel venture
I wouldn't be surprised if it is though, since isn't it covering up to Cata?
jade basalt
It is covering up to and including Cataclysm yup
Last pages are the Dragon Soul raid etc.
steel venture
Nice. ๐
...
dissapointed that they didn't address why and how the night elves joined the alliance though
from what we've seen
meager warren
Oh yikes. Two hours worth of today's content in #beta-ptr-spoilers is gone.
rip
jade basalt
There is a lot that won't be covered. V3's "lore value" will inherently be lower than the other volumes because they decided to cram 5 entire games and expansions into 200 pages, so of course there is a lot of skipping and little room for details, or even simple expansions. It's mostly going to be a retelling of what we know, with some twists maybe. The Lich King section is literally word for word the same as the WC3 manual (with a couple additions like the Vrykul/Val'kyr bit). Though there's still some neat stuff, mostly regarding the WC3 campaign parts, and the Vanilla/TBC ones.
uncut vault
floral grotto
"After the third war, the night elf nation also joined the Alliance, though the exact moment at which they joined is unknown. They were motivated to do so by the continued logging operations of the Horde in Warsong Gulch." That's all we know. And I don't know what of that is covered in the Chronicles.
distant folio
@uncut vault wow, where did you find this?
distant folio
Are these legit?
jade basalt
Hey that's the one I stitched together. It's missing like 10% of the lower half but it's just more icy path.
uncut vault
2/10, needs more ice
zinc sandal
I disagree with everything that has been said so far.
jade basalt
Agreed.
hollow dock
I agree and disagree with everything said
tranquil steeple
I disagree with myself, and agree to disagree with my disagreement over my own agreement.
restive sage
sharp bluff
I'll be I was right, even though I was joking, Big LK was trying to unite the Horde and Alliance lol, Chronicles has some good stuff
hollow dock
wat
hollow dock
Was he meaning Arthas?...I dont comprehend
rich apex
I don't blame them
hollow dock
Like. Arthas tells us his plans. Did you really need chronicles to learn that?
sharp bluff
nah, but it makes it better that it is written down in a book meant to confirm things
Now I just have to remember what LK 2.0's desire was....
uncut vault
this volume is great for me personally because it distinguishes between what was just "hey this is badass" quest designer writing and what story they actually wanted to tell
dense plover
you have to pay the troll toll
lol
i was waiting for the its always sunny reference
i knew this expac would have one
meager warren
Vol'James seems like a fraud. Says 'mon' too much
hollow dock
But. He tells us. Personally. While we're dead. His intentions. There was no need for a book to tell us that. :L
Bolvar has no real desires. He took the helm to become the lich king. For what reasons we arent aware of but he just hints his plans.
sharp bluff
Yes I know he tells us that, but considering how much they retcon, to have it confirmed is nice
That he was mostly in control, and his desire was (while twisted) his own
hollow dock
But. What? They hardly retcon anything large. Last large one was the eredar. In BC.
The arthas book even tells us that he was in control :v
floral grotto
I'd consider the chosen one and the Exodar pretty big retcons.
crystal forum
Sooo... How many chronicles are there? 3 now? Time to spend some money
I should be asleep cuz I have to get up at 2am but lol I'm scrolling cuz this discord is my fav
elder otter
Yes, the third comes out this month.
sharp bluff
Are good Warden friend not being wanted for killing High Elfโs
floral grotto
*Highborne. And yes, she should've been locked up. Then I wouldn't have had to listen to that gravel voice and her obnoxious comments.
uncut vault
I mean, she still probably is wanted
she just didnt interact with basically anyone from night elven society save her brother
floral grotto
Uh... killing a bunch of people and attempting to stop an alliance between the Worgen and the Alliance is kinda more than just a Nelf matter.
uncut vault
Good thing she didnt reallyt interact with any alliance members either, except for us murder hobos
floral grotto
Nope! No one at all. Just everyone on the Broken Shore.
rich apex
I for one can definitely live with that whole 'maiev went psycho because she didn't have an illidan to chase' plot being quietly retconned
(bonus points given the end of Illidan's hunt is portrayed as triumphant instead of soulcrushing)
uncut vault
I mean, I took it as the same character flaw she's always had, an unhealthy obsession with justice
10k years can warp your view ofwhat's just
floral grotto
Still doesn't make it excusable in any way, shape or form.
And I am sure that there were Alliance members on Broken Shore somewhere. Unless we're saying that all of those NPCs are somehow neutral. I'm not even talking about Velen, either. Genn was down there a couple of times, along with Anduin, as well-- and obviously those two know the situation. Why no one seemed to care that a murderer and someone who tried to commit treason was running around... well... I guess demons are more important than previous storyline. She should've just been locked away before all of that so it didn't seem like we were all just ignoring it. Made for an awkward storyline in Val'sharah and Broken Shore. Also: they won't retcon the Maiev thing or they'd have to retcon an entire book. Let's not go the way of Star Wars. lol
uncut vault
I mean, yeah, thats exactly it. Who would focus on imprisoning two people who are renowned for killing demons
when we're facing demons
meager warren
wht'd Maiev do? o.o
floral grotto
Killed Highborne and tried to pin it on the Worgen in an attempt to screw up the talks between the Worgen and the Alliance to bring them into the fold.
meager warren
oh.
Nothing any of the other leaders hasn't done
floral grotto
Uh... okay.
meager warren
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comments/8382yq/battle_for_azeroth_is_the_perfect_opportunity_to/ this pic is pleasantly aesthetic
steel venture
http://bfa.wowhead.com/npc=133738/astralite-visara
another one.
nightborne model but marked as <The Highborne>
So, think it's kind of obvious now that Highborne ARE supposed to look more different. Blizzard's choice to use an NPC nightborne model for a highborne is very intentional.
They don't throw that NPC tag out at random.
serene geyser
I cant find the WoW Blog I read, but is it true that Guilds will become cross server in BFA?
dense plover
i dont think so
but there will be communities
which are cross server and allow you to invite people to groups easily, chat with them, etc.
serene geyser
I see
dense plover
Tbh, pretty sure you can be highborne and also be a nightborne since suramar was a higborne city prior to the WotA
tulip sun
As long as they make them look a tad different.
hollow dock
Highborne arent genetically too different, depending on exposure to magical enerfies, to night elves.
The issue is that you cant get the differences out in WoW, or really any MMO, because the work is just to much. And the art teams arent really told anything. So ๐คท
hollow dock
Theyve always been portrayed, on majority, as being very light skinnes but still nelves. Being a highborne has always been more of a social caste than a physical state.
tulip sun
I mean, having arcane tattoos and such like nightborne does not make much sense
If they share models
hollow dock
Idd. Which is why I noted up top, depending on exposure to magical essences.
Night elves are more resilient but still change to them.
stray anchor
Nightborne models aren't exactly like the Nelf ones though
proud karma
I'm just saying they had to make the switch at some point
hollow dock
Theyre mutated ones.
proud karma
A nelf didn't just wake up one morning as a high elf they
Yeah they mutated
hollow dock
They didn't start changing to Helves until the Sunwell was made.
proud karma
I just think it's fun to imagine the arcane changed em
hollow dock
that's...exactly what happened. :o The sunwell changed the Highborne who went to the Amani lands and their overuse of it is what triggered it. Just like how the nightbornes overuse of the Nightwell changed them.
stray anchor
So in a nutshell, what is the sunwell is it like the well of eternity but infused with light magic?
hollow dock
The Sunwell was made to replace the Well of Eternity for the High Elves dependance on magic. Overtime they've found otherways but the Sunwell to sate their addictions, but it was essentially a smaller second Well. Until arthas came and tossed Kel'thuzads ashes in there and corrupted it, severing its ties to the elven people. Kael'thas further corrupted it by letting hte Legion try to summon Kil'jaeden through it but we beat them back. Once we did, Velen placed the heart of M'uru, a Naaru the Blood Elves had stolen Light from, into the Sunwell and then cleansed it. Now infusing it with Light energy of Creation rather than arcane, effectively reducing the addiction to pre-Arthas levels and begun cleansing the Blood Elven people of their fel corruption.
that is what the Sunwell is.
proud karma
They're not going to mutate more
hollow dock
They already are. It's confirmed that a few generations down the Line, Blood elves would, lore wise, be born with Golden Eyes rather than Green.
Plus the whole thing with Umbric and the Void Elves.
stray anchor
Aren't their eyes green because of the time they were afflicted by fel?
hollow dock
Yup
stray anchor
Or does the fel addiction go back so far?
hollow dock
Fel acts like radiation. It's spread through their ranks and the Sunwell is fighting it off, but its slow. Like radiation and its half-life.
stray anchor
basically wasn't it a "recent" development, rather than something thousands of years before?
I guess recent in elf time can be a really long time
hollow dock
Timeline wise, it is 'recent' but the Sunwell is reducing it. The Blood elves as a full people never sucked up Fel, they were exposed to it by the higher ups who did suck it up through the fel crystals around Eversong.
proud karma
it was very recent, like last 10years or so
i can't remember when exactly arthas did the thing but a blink of an eye for an elf
hollow dock
Arthas had performed his act I believe 5 years prior to BC and the cleansing and a total of 11 since then.
proud karma
oops pardon, 16 then
hollow dock
It's a long time, and we dont know the exact half-life of Fel, but we do know that Light can instantly cleanse its corruption when directly applied from a powerful source. (See Velen clearing Fel Fissures and Gas in the Exodar at breakneck speed.)
half nebula
Well, we have Quel'dorei, Sin'dorei, and now Kylo Ren'dorei. Bring on the Alah'dorei.
hollow dock
the elves are in every color of the rainbow at this point
sharp bluff
pretty much lol
rich apex
Soon (TM)
The post expac drought hasn't started yet if Blizz still technically has more Legion content in the wings ๐ค
stray anchor
Do you think there will be some sunwell plateau style mini raid before the end?
dense plover
no
they specifically said no
we are done with raids
as soon as the silithus content drops, we wont be getting anything else until prepatch
stray anchor
Ah very well. It wouldnt seem right after such a grand ending there
hollow dock
We are getting no major raids were their exact words
floral grotto
I have this feeling there is no part 2 of Silithus soon. I think it'll just be Prelaunch.
rich apex
Clearly the entire PTR patch with draining the Sword was just a red herring
What really happens is C'thun rises from Silithus and consumes Azeroth
BFA isn't actually happening
rich apex
I mean, Blizz probably -does- have the spare money to do that
But you don't exactly become a billion dollar developer by wasting money like that
Unless you're Chris Metzen trying to make an MMO that doesn't compete with your other MMO and also lives up to the name Chris Metzen
hollow dock
And then fail at it because not even Chris Metzen can live up to an MMO made by Chris Metzen.
rich apex
I'd get anxiety too if I had to tell Morhaime I burned a million bucks worth of dev time with nothing to show
Poor bastard
hollow dock
Well it wasn't an entire blunder. It turned into Overwatch didn't it?
rich apex
Truuue
meager warren
World of Warcraft > Overwatch
crystal forum
HAH I was really confused what you guys are talking about until you said it turned into overwatch and I just burst out laughing this was the best scrolling session I've had
Also I think we deserve a channel on specifically just to discuss lore and stuff like that but that's just my opinion
hollow dock
Nah this is the perfect place for it
meager warren
no, this is the perfect place to discuss spoilers.
hollow dock
Exactly. Lore, for people who were unaware of it, are spoiled it.
and all lore in the past builds up to BFA, so its all relevant.
meager warren
wat
hollow dock
You had said this is the perfect place to discuss spoilers.
If people are unaware of the lore, it will get spoiled for them. Thus it belongs here, all lore leads up to BFA and so its all relevant to the discussion of BFA spoilers.
meager warren
A lot of the lore is retconned so that's not quite true
hollow dock
Not entirely? if its retconned lore, then it has no relevance to anything. So why would it be talked about?
hollow dock
When we're talking about the Lore of Warcraft, all of it pretains to the current situation of BFA as it all leads up to it. If its retconned, then its no longer apart of the Lore of Warcraft.
meager warren
I consider the term ''all lore'' to refer to all lore.
As in, retconned or otherwise lore.
๐
hollow dock
If its retconnes then its no longer in the lore though.
meager warren
it's no longer in the canon lore, u mean.
hollow dock
No it simply isn't in the lore. To retcon something is to write over that piece of information. It's no longer brought up, unless someone is unaware of the fact that it was retconned.
meager warren
define lore
zinc sandal
Lore that has been retconned is no longer relevant.
Thus, not worth bringing it up under any circumstance.
floral grotto
People are allowed to bring up whatever they want.
ivory meadow
of course they are but if it pertains to discussion about the canon and current lore then retconned lore shouldn't be brought up as it has no relevancy or value.
floral grotto
Everything has some relevance or value in some respect. We've brought it up before. What's the issue with talking about it?
hollow dock
If you would scroll, I'm making the argument that Lore can be brought up here as it all has relevance to BFA.
retconned lore
doesn't and can't
because it never happened or has been overwritten. Thus isn't relevant.
ivory meadow
^
meager warren
"Lore" is a broad subject, of which retconned lore is.
That's my argument
meager warren
no
uncut vault
its lore
meager warren
they're neither spawned by god nor hell
uncut vault
ya but in the original warcraft lore, orcs were brought to azeroth by the demons of hell, so clearly we need to take this into account in all theories
meager warren
possibly.
But as Vris is set on, that's not worth discussing since it's not canon anymore
About our talking of Pirates of the Caribbean a while back, @hollow dock Jack Sparrow's debt to Davy Jones was his own soul, not that cargo of souls that would have died by Cutler Becket.
Here's a convo in the movie,
"You have my payment. One soul to serve on your ship."
"One soul is not equal to another."
"We've established my proposal is sound in principle. Now we're haggling over price."
"Price?"
"Just how many souls do you think my soul is worth?"
"One hundred souls. Three days."
plain vigil
wait we're STILL on this!?
zinc sandal
Donโt you know? These guys never let go.
meager warren
hey, people are still complaining about pandas and there's a lot of vitriol in #classic-wow of which i participated in some ;)
floral grotto
FINE. SUBJECT CHANGE. So how about that weird cat form thing Zandalari got? I think it's dumb.
sudden oak
I mean its as dumb as a lizard cat could be
floral grotto
It should've been a little raptor. Ninjasaur.
ember tiger
uncut vault
vast roost
Nice.
stray anchor
Where can I see the new cat form?
frigid crater
stray anchor
Thanks!
tropic trail
Lol, that moment when you already saw the bee mount in wotlk.
floral grotto
They did a poor job with how we sit on that bee.
twin kindle
do we know zandalari racials?
hollow dock
We know their names but not wjat they do
eternal carbon
Hopefully they will have the 20% haste racial
hollow dock
None of the revealed abilities indicate its a haste buff.
hollow dock
Trolls already have it tho peach
eternal carbon
Yup
It's an ability
But no matter the racials, I will still change my hunter to a Zandalari Troll
high crag
One of the logos for a racial looks like a regen or healing buff/spell
dense plover
it definitely is
this is about zandalari right?
City of Gold
Embrace the Loa
Pterrodax Swoop
Regeneratin
Ward of the Loa
those are the names
so regeneratin is definitely healing
city of gold probably has to do with getting more gold or getting cheaper prices or something
pterrodax swoop sounds like some kind of attack
and ward of the loa looks like a totem
embrace the loa i have no clue
eternal carbon
yes.
steel venture
Embrace of the Loa might be their version of a Berserk.
Sounds like an active spell + cooldown.
hollow dock
maybe AP/SP?
hollow dock
unless it itself is heroism or resource granting, very doubtful it'll ever be as great. Unless its CD is like. 3 minutes.
dense plover
well they need passives too
im assuming the ward is probably a passive
and the gold one too?
so maybe yeah, then the loa one could be active
i would love for pterrodax swoop to be equivalent to a flight whistle but at any level
then that could match up with the dark iron mole machine
steel venture
Regen / Ward / City probably are the passives. like, at the very least. i'd say.
dense plover
i thought regen would be active
steel venture
Regular troll regen is passive so, i wouldn't doubt this one.
steel venture
The tradeoff is that it's really not that great for darkspear trolls, so. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the same regen.
Unless they do reflect the more-up-to-date lore with troll regeneration and make it an active heal like Gift of the Naaru, but for self-heals only.
sharp bluff
Well I doubt it, but it could be
I have been thinking about the DI Dwarves Mole Machine racial, and all I can think is flight whistle
hollow dock
I think it'll be more like the eagles Hunters can research
Fixed points in somewhat convenient points across the world
sharp bluff
That would be pretty cool actually
dense plover
that would be way more work
its way easier to just make it take you to the nearest flight point
although i hope they also add an heirloom flight whistle
hollow dock
? How is that more work to take a system that already exists and just plop in a temp mole machine?
dense plover
no im saying its less work to take the current system
you are suggesting adding fixed points
thats way more work
you have to go back and select points
flight whistle just automatically selects points
hollow dock
They've already proved it's something they can do. Look again at my example of the Eagles.
dense plover
yeah
they had to add those though
do you expect them to do that for every zone?
thats a ton of work
hollow dock
It really isn't a lot of work when the system is already in game
dense plover
its a lot more work than just a flight whistle with a different animation
hollow dock
thats the exact same system, it just wouldn't go to a flight point. Like the eagles.
dense plover
but they had to be placed manually
strong python
it's more work than a flight whistle but it's not a lot of work when they already have it made
hollow dock
you just said
dense plover
but i am saying it is more work
hollow dock
it would be
strong python
it'll just be a matter of replicating
hollow dock
[12:44 PM] mrpeach774: thats a ton of work [12:44 PM] mrpeach774: okay [12:44 PM] mrpeach774: thats a lot
hollow dock
Yet. you're saing its not a lot of work.
dense plover
they have to go through and edit all of the zones
all of them
then they have to make sure that the model they use looks good when placed
hollow dock
They dont. They just take a system that alreayd works in game, they know how to do it, add it to the rest of azeroth.
dense plover
because it would be a mole machine
yeah
but the system isnt just code being copied
hollow dock
They already have a working mole machine model
strong python
yep
dense plover
they have to place those locations
strong python
it's not really that much of a trouble peach
dense plover
the flight whistle would literally just be code with a different model
its less work
hollow dock
It's just as much work as mine. Because you'd have to code that flight whistle to take you to the closest flightmaster across all of azeroth
dense plover
no
im fairly certain the whistle just detects the nearest flight point
and all flight points have the same code
dense plover
so theres no need to do anything
hollow dock
with very spread out flight points
dense plover
and?
hollow dock
Have you seen how many flight points there are in Azeroth?
dense plover
do you know how easy it is to get the game to do math for distance?
its really easy
hollow dock
and how many are very bunched up
dense plover
so?
it literally does basic distance math already
you dont have to do anything
im fairly certain that if the current flight whistle was enabled in current zones, it would work by default, no work required
strong python
I agree with you peach
it's less work indeed
but it's not an acceptable "excuse" you see?
they could easily do it
although just doing a flight whistle would be even easier
dense plover
im not saying its an excuse, im giving a possible reason why if they do a flight whistle ability, it will be more likely to do this one
these are allied races, not fully fledged races
less work is expected
but
dense plover
if they do a flight whistle ability system, they have to make an heirloom flight whistle
or the people will form a mob
strong python
yes, it is an allied race but a much more developped one
strong python
like Zandalari are with their unique druid forms and stuff
yup
I wouldn't be surprise with the whole eagle system
dense plover
i hope the rest of the races get new druid forms
strong python
but I get your point and a flight whistle it's more likely to come
dense plover
or this will be a little bit bullshit
hollow dock
that's probably why they didn't want to do it in the first place
dense plover
im still going to make a zandalari druid
strong python
I have high hopes regarding the unique druid forms
dense plover
which means Vris, that they might plan on doing it
strong python
for everyone
dense plover
they really only need to do half of highmountain
3/5
and then redo worgen, nelf, and tauren
hollow dock
I think nelves can stay the same, just change everyone else.
dense plover
maybe tweak troll a bit
yeah, the forms are most iconic for nelfs
i would love tauren to get bull instead of bear form
strong python
holy shite that would be awesome
dense plover
once current art is finished then they will work on extras
dense plover
^
but not dinos
dinos make the most sense for zandalari
i could raptor travel ground for regular trolls
but outside of that
an update to bat form
maybe make the cat into a sabertooth or tiger
make the bear a turtle or crustacean or something
and no clue about moonkin
maybe a mix with bat similar to zandalari being mixed with lizard?
tropic trail
Well, if the forms were more island based, then I'm sure Blizzard could throw in a parrot flight form
hollow dock
Nah, the bat form works fine for em.
hollow dock
aren't they updating the bat models?
dense plover
maybe?
i havent seen an updated model
but i wouldnt be surprised if they do because of Hireek and Nazmir
uncut vault
The existing bloody bat models actually fit Nazmir really well
uncut vault
Was a mount in MoP and mobs in WoD
dense plover
found another cool new weapon
and another https://beta.wowhead.com/item=159540
and another
hollow dock
thats not a cutlass. thats a broadsword.
dense plover
not quite
the grip isnt meant to block an attack like a broadsword
it really doesnt match either sword quite right
and since when has blizzard gotten naming right?
hollow dock
this is as bad as Dark Souls 3 tho
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ff-UrHFD7o8/maxresdefault.jpg this is a greatsword
rich apex
that helmet tho
hollow dock
yea its a pin head
hollow dock
Oh if you think thats bad
meager warren
That's an odd-looking human.
Unless it's not human?
hollow dock
His head is 100% normal and he is 100% human
solar trout
IโM SELLING MY SPECTRAL TIGER CARD (CODE) FOR 400GBP OR INGAME GOLD! WHISPER ME ON DISCORD FOR PICTURES ETC..
sharp bluff
not sure your in the right channel mate
solar trout
What channel then?
sullen dagger
hollow dock
it amazes me taht people head here. is this just that active of a chat?
sharp bluff
most active one, but they also posted in screenshots to so idk
dense plover
if they post in all of the channels, theyll just end up getting their messages deleted or banned
its against the server rules
meager warren
they posted in #beta-ptr-spoilers #screenshots #classic-wow and #no-wow-discussion.
I'd say that's enough for at least a verbal warning if not a ban
untold fractal
and in #classic-wow
dense plover
well
nightborne are there for the artifacts
its a pastime
and so are dark iron
nightborne are horde and want the artifact
so they fight the dark iron
tulip sun
I just like they have a nightborne camp
It's really neat
And the invading the opposite island, lol
Gallywix xoming
dense plover
oh ofc he is involved
apparently he also pays the alliance for some islands
he gets most of the azerite so in a way, the alliance help the horde
i really wouldnt be surprised if he ends up being a boss or something
him as the king of diamonds makes a lot of sense
terse patrol
ye i get the feeling he's playing both sides
hollow dock
What the business man is playing both sidesin the conflict to expand his profits
rich apex
I will laugh if Gallywix is the King of Diamonds
Turns out the real villain
was capitalism
hollow dock
LOL
rich apex
Morhaime laughs as he counts his pre-order numbers
hollow dock
can we get that Tom Cruise meme but for Mike?
uncut vault
camps arent just for artifacts, dark irons are fighting two fights at once
nightborne for artifacts, goblins for azerite deposits
meager warren
Capitalism is the real villain.
It's always been the real villain.
If it weren't for capitalism, Gallywix and Sylvannas wouldn't be ruling the Horde
and it's because of irl capitalism that Vol'jin chose Sylvannas probably
he could have chosen Saurfang or Baine or Thrall
uncut vault
I mean, if his choices were really only saurfang and sylvanas. Maybe lor'themar, but Baine's like 6, and thrall's going through a mid life crisis
in the end, Sylvanas is probably the best military leader in the Horde
meager warren
Baine has more maturity than Sylvannas. And he's chief of the Thunder Bluff Tauren
dense plover
the loa really DID tell him
meager warren
the loa don't really have a track record of making the best choices
dense plover
because they knew she would be the only one willing to do what needs to be done
they generally make better decisions than the average npc
uncut vault
I mean, I still think it was Bwonsamdi telling him, simply because he wants souls, and whether demons or Alliance, he'd get that from sylvanas more than anyone else.
meager warren
loa can refer to singular or plural, iirc
uncut vault
and bwonsamdi is probably included in that
dense plover
it can
uncut vault
and probably the person he'd listen to most
dense plover
but the sentence structure implies plural
the loa be speakin to me
they be whispirin a name
Sylvanas
they
the loa
it implies plural
uncut vault
Im not saying it wasnt many loa. Im just saying Bwonsamdi was probably included in that.
dense plover
probably
meager warren
maybe.
we'll just have to wait and see, that's if Bliz ever clarifies what Vol'jin was talking about
dense plover
but bwonsamdi isnt completely selfish
he helps
hes a loa
maybe hireek too
maybe gonk
uncut vault
He's definitely selfish in BfA
dense plover
not completely
uncut vault
and Hireek's corrupted
dense plover
not at the point of Voljins death
not to our knowledge
we have to assume it happened in the year since
meager warren
days without seeing an argument in #beta-ptr-spoilers: 0
dense plover
discussion
uncut vault
Not really arguing, we're agreeing on most things ๐คท
dense plover
^
uncut vault
I'll try to find the text but it talks about the blood troll threat building for years, and Rastakhan ignoring it, with loa going silent
meager warren
Garrosh did a lot wrong
uncut vault
Hireek is one of the loa that went silent
dense plover
but i dont think hireek has been quiet for that long
i could be wrong
in which case, maybe hireek chose sylvanas to cause chaos
because that would benefit ghuun
uncut vault
I'll be playing through Nazmir again next build so I'll pay attention to quest text more
meager warren
anyway, can we talk about this cringefest...
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20761896911#1
uncut vault
Gen discussion's turned into the story forums for people who dont know the story, from what Ive seen
meager warren
Discord is also toxic
dense plover
not like the forum
uncut vault
equal complaining and argument, but without knowing what theyre complaining about
meager warren
T. R. Y. M. E
dense plover
i would kill to walk around a populated zuldazar
meager warren
I would walk to kill around a populated Zuldazar
rich apex
I did question the logic of Blizz wanting to remind people of WoD with AU Allied orcs >_>
But now that they've shown the clan skins, I admittedly can't complain
meager warren
because it made more sense than multiplying the number of uncorrupted orcs in Outland by the thousands when there's only a handful of orcs left there
rich apex
Eh, can't be thousands of void elves
And people can still RP Outland orcs now
So as win win as it gets
meager warren
there's thousands of blood elves.
Blood Elves corrupted by the Void turn into Playable Blood Elves.
uncut vault
I dont think Blizz hates WoD as much as we do
meager warren
wat
rich apex
Of course, they're dealing with endless whining regardless of the expansion ๐
uncut vault
the nightborne camp actually fits Zuldazar quite nice in terms of color
some dark iron shamans in zuldazar
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dense plover
its a gem from what i gathered watching nobbel play through
rich apex
Plot device
meager warren
wouldn't be the first time
rich apex
'only the Eye can defeat G'hunn/Azshara/N'zoth'
alliance and horde start murdering each other to get it
meager warren
are they talking about the Eye of the Kirin'tor?
dense plover
no
Eye of Xibala
artifact side quest on zuldazar
nightborne and dark iron are involved
its on the coast where you can see the big dino skeleton
tulip sun
Can you get anymore up close of the nightborne
dense plover
they look like nightborne
hollow dock
wha
dense plover
its a mix of the old and new ones
dense plover
ok
floral grotto
NPC face on the left, playable on the right.
Playable male face (one of them)
NPC male face.
tulip sun
Where are these located
floral grotto
What do you mean?
tulip sun
Nvm
karmic ridge
it's raisin men, halleluja
meager warren
rainin' men*
plain vigil
HOLLLY SHIT the wowhead forums are a race batting shitshow rn.... why do we have to fight about allied races like its the end of the bloody world ๐
Race bating*
meager warren
Alliance are never going to be satisfied because apparently the Horde got it better.
And Horde is never going to be satisfied because they didn't get enough
rich apex
Gotta make that Alliance/Horde bias explicitly clear