beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

We kill a San'layn he considers a friend end

Blood magic is long tied to the Elves

[uncut vault]

I think it's more likely he's just... a morally dubious blood elf haha

that's exactly what he's been since TBC

his original pet project got reshaped into a group of pious paladins, so now he needs something else to pursue his goals of keeping the blood elves on top

and he was already using anima and blood magic back in WoD

[glass flicker]

Confirmed, Xal'atath hates footwear.

[pulsar minnow]

So- maybe obvious but I noticed something looking through the midnight soundtrack

There’s two songs - Doom of Creation and Light’s Creation

The themes appear to be tied to the sunwell- and if it’s true that Azeroth is now also somehow tied with the Sunwell… maybe it’s a hint at what her real label is?

Maybe the 7th cosmological force is “Creation?”

[ember blaze]

@deep pawn bard confirmed

[deep pawn]

Lol, there's a quest that recognizes you as a short race

[dense plover]

theres lots of cool stuff like that

the murder row quest is different for warlocks

theres some npcs that have specific lines only for specific classes

and it wont be like one npc having different lines for each class, its different npcs, each with unique dialogue for that class

theres a ton of it and its great

[lone mantle]

Creation is an expression of free will, and so is destruction.

[ember blaze]

[rain cave]

Would also be interesting since some of the most native cosmological beings we’ve seen are things that just eat

Dimensius and the dominaar absorb shit

The native shadowlands things, the white blue ones

They consume

Fel consumes soul energy as well I’m pretty sure

So maybe that’s what the order vs disorder triangles are?

Like on the cosmology chart, order, light and death make a triangle, and disorder, void and life make another

And the first one’s are a combined aesthetic of the first triangle, with titanic order, light aesthetics, and obviously being tied to the shadowlands

I saw someone theorising that denathrius could be lingering somewhere in this story. If he’s teamed up with xal in some form to ally the disorder triad that could be interesting, since it would involve breaking the shackles on the life domain, and we know there’s the whisper about eyes of green and the vassal of life hiding treachery

And with lothraxion plus the recent book there was discussion of dreadlords and the lingering demons

So this xpac is light vs void, but maybe last titan is the larger conflict?

[harsh mason]

In this Exp, everything is against Void, and Light vs void is only 12.0. Especially considering that almost ||the entire Vanguard of Light will be destroyed in VoidSpire, and then when Lura attack Sunwelll||

This is the reason why we will be gathering an army of elves before the final raid at 12.0

[ember blaze]

@deep pawn bard cant come soon enough

do you still think dagran will play a part, or maybe it's gonna be orweyna introducing it 🤔

or perhaps theyll both play a part

[deep pawn]

that really depends on if its a class or a spec for artificer

[rain cave]

I feel like the bard thing will maybe be one of the sub-themes of the radiant song class if they do that

since I feel like the way they might go about it without it being ALL azerite aesthetic is have the class focus on the different mysticisms on azeroth

shadow hunter, for example have some overlap

as we see in the harranir zone

[rain cave]

could maybe even be like a class that specifically uses the objects and parts of every cosmological force?

not in a me'dan way, where you are OP and powerful at casting everything

but more in the witch doctor "random bullshit go" way

[ember blaze]

time to revisit the survey

Bard: Supporter, Healer and Tanks, that utilize the Song of Azeroth to cast mighty spells, support their allies and weaken their enemies. Bards shine in a group, empowering and improving the spells of others and at the same time bringing numerous songs and auras to help their group reach new heights.

[rain cave]

I could see this being a specific spec that taps into the radiant song

like the larger class could be akin to just somebody attuned to worldsouls or somesuch?

one spec leans into the radiant song in the pure bardic and inspirational way

another spec is like the harranir shadowhunters, focuses on silencing it in other making them go mad and cutting their mind off from the thing that gives them strength/purpose

and just utilises the power of things in the environment to make the rituals and poultices for that maybe

but I think it becomes too much of a random bits together class then

maybe they've got two classes left in them still :P

alternatively maybe they go the route I've suggested where they add one off single spec classes that you can swap in to

so like if you're a rogue, warrior, warlock, priest, druid, etc. you can just spec into radiant song bard whenever you want

I unironically think that could be a good direction and actual QoL change that would allow people to keep their mains but also get to play the new spec/class

since it means people who main dps only classes could still flex into healing, tanking, etc

and classes with limited dps options don't feel the pressure of only having 1 dps spec to play (what if it's badly tuned or just not fun)

that also saves you the scope, talent and tier creep of having a full fledged class

AND also would allow certain fantasies that aren't fleshed out in classes we have but don't have enough substance to fully be their own class. E.g. Blademaster, Witch Doctor/Shadow hunter, Bard and tinker potentially.

[fathom fulcrum]

is Lothraxion in demon heaven or Light heaven

🤔

justice for Lothraxion 💔

[ember blaze]

i dont think theyll do that

fantasy still important for a lot of people 🤔

[deep pawn]

I just feel like artificer is a do or die class for TLT

I worry bard won't be popular if it's Azeroth themed

[ember blaze]

why

[fathom fulcrum]

ewwww bard

there you go

https://fxtwitter.com/BaalTheWarlock/status/2029592033807962540/photo/1

Baal Samael (@BaalTheWarlock)

The Midnight art book says, explicitly, that the Haranir come from Night Elves.
︀︀
︀︀That means that the Haranir post-date the Empire of Zul, the Troll/Aqir War, the Kaldorei Imperial Wars, everything, such that Night Elves exist per se.
︀︀
︀︀It also throws a wrench in all the tablets.

**💬 2 ❤️ 15 👁️ 1.3K **

FxTwitter · Mar 5, 2026, 4:17 PM

they are night elves confirmed 😭

[upper pasture]

we...knew that?

they said they went underground while others stayed and studied the stars

[deep pawn]

That's when they supposedly diverged from the dark trolls

Makes 0 sense for them to become more Troll like afterwards

[fathom fulcrum]

*night elves

[deep pawn]

I'm pretty sure they answered in a QnA before where the split happened so that book has me iffy

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean the book does say night elves so idk

delete haranir 💔

[fathom fulcrum]

are you saying they are contradicting themselves in this Midnight book thingy?!??!!?

[deep pawn]

wouldn't surprise me lol

[pulsar minnow]

I mean the only thing that makes them “troll-like” are the tusks they have

Otherwise they’re basically just elves

Also- one thing that isn’t really being mentioned is that troll tusks are attached to the upper jaw while Haranir tusks are attached to the lower jaw

So even then they’d technically be more orclike

[fathom fulcrum]

oh like the Amani

[uncut vault]

troll women have this, blizzard is just inconsistent

[uncut vault]

the thing that makes it worse is that in-game, the story presents them has having been haranir first

that they went underground shortly after the Ordering and were already shapeshifting haranir atop Mount Hyjal at that point

[rain cave]

I suppose to them, they were? like how we project modern ideas onto our past

when we depict the people of ancient times, we only have our current selves to use as reference usually

or it atleast taints our bias

I imagine in a similar way to how high/blood elf depictions of the earler eversong/silvermoon settlers probably paints them as just like modern high elves

[uncut vault]

It’s not from their own retelling, it’s from the worldsoul memories

Like they don’t know who freya is, they just call her a giant

But in the actual visions, it’s Freya

[rain cave]

Wdym, isn’t it their tablets?

With their story of their race that they tell themselves

[uncut vault]

Their tablets are infused with alndust, which recalls actual real events from the past

the verbal descriptions are up to their biases, but the actual visions we see are real events being recalled

[rain cave]

While yes, but also Azeroth’s song and visions is tailored to each person

So maybe they don’t see Freya at all, they just see what they collectively know as that giant

Whilst we, knowing the bigger context see Freya

But we don’t see their ancestors since we don’t know what that looks like

At the end of the day it’s all just art budget and readability though

[uncut vault]

that had been my very stretched justification for it haha

but the quests also show that before they ever even went underground, they already had their natural druid forms with their quills and everything

which is millennia before either nelf or trolls discovered druidism

[deep pawn]

Blizzard struggles with timelines on a good day

[deep pawn]

I want to see what reworks are in 12.0.5 haha

Ptr should be soon right?

[glass flicker]

I want some new animations for Outlaw, and that's about it.

They have four abilities that use the same animation with different visual effects.

[ember blaze]

that will be $100 for the animation bundle

[glass flicker]

Doable. I commission more expensive OC art monthly.

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/monka-cat-scared-scared-cat-wide-eyes-gif-5319946494583553667

[glass flicker]

Give me the animator's PayPal, I'll pay them for new Outlaw animations myself.

[deep pawn]

I love the various bugs cause by Harandar originally being designed for TWW

[glass flicker]

Bugs?

[deep pawn]

Yeah, TWW fishing skill in the delve, a reward in Harandar disenchanted into TWW mats

[rain cave]

I wonder what was put in its place, ringing deeps you reckon?

[deep pawn]

K'aresh was made quickly and thrown there

Voidstorm was likely K'aresh originally

[rain cave]

so you think harandar was for a patch zone?

that fits ig, since we had the roots in the nerubian zone

and they had a camp there for a bit on beta/alpha

a bit like the goblins before undermine

confusing as to why there'd be a delve though, usually delves are for levelling zones only no?

like we've not had a patch zone with a delve iirc

[deep pawn]

What?

Undermine and K'aresh both had delves

[rain cave]

oh did they?

I never played them lmao/noticed

[deep pawn]

K'aresh's was very last second and reused Azure Archives but it was there

Harandar is obviously reworked some but you can tell originally it was going to be Blackblood.

Brann and Gazlowe both being there too lol

[rain cave]

how so?

the whole ritual area right?

where orweyna has to silence the adiant song

it's very dark and weird down there

[deep pawn]

Lightbloom was probably all black blood corruption originally

[gloomy tangle]

I wonder where the entry point in Harandar was after flying up from Azj-Kahet

Or maybe it was always a portal 🤷‍♂️

[harsh mason]

I think the Haranir were a part of TWW even before the idea of the Saga even appeared. So it's not a fact that there was a Black Blood theme at all. In fact, we don't know anything at all about that development period.

[rain cave]

we might even have it the wrong way around

they are something metzen's clearly inspired and brought with him

could be he joined war within, and wanted to put them in but because it was too far along there just wasn't time

or fit them in properly

so he moved them to midnight

though I do feel like maybe harranir were meant to be the horde counterpart to the earthen

but they had to settle and just make them neutral

[deep pawn]

That's what I'm saying. Harandar was clearly part of the original TWW plans because of Rootlands datamining and how rushed K'aresh was.

The whole roots in Azjkahet too

And we know the coreway and the Titans were the end too

The saga is literally TWW's original beats but spread out

It's why a lot of TWW ended up feeling empty

Original Midnight was likely Beledar related vs Sunwell

[pulsar minnow]

tbh i kinda doubt the sunwell was ever even part of the original plan of the world soul expansion

[deep pawn]

It wasn't

But Beledar got sacrificed for it

[pulsar minnow]

Unfortunate but probably for the best. People have been pointing out that Beledar and the whole story around the Arathi was scarily similar to the last game Danuser had written for

[deep pawn]

Like there's ever been a single original plot for WoW

We had an entire zone be an Indiana Jones parody

[rain cave]

I get flashbacks to a bellular thumbnail saying the lich king is organic while the harranir are derivative and I just sighed

Like I love the lich king but you only need to change a couple letters and suddenly and suddenly he’s a lord of the rings character

[deep pawn]

Fallen prince is an ancient trope

[dense plover]

first part of endgame story is out - theres an entire battalion of hallowfall knights

new portal to voidstorm near the sunwell

accurate af

[deep pawn]

We get to kill her soon so all good

[dense plover]

OH RIGHT

she loses her mind

where is arator tho?

oh nvm

oh jesus

i love this lady - she is such a dweeb

uh oh

yup - uh oh is right

and now we wait for the raid

[uncut vault]

if you look at the underground theming of TWW, Harandar just makes way more sense as the final zone of the zone, with us digging deeper and deeper beneath the planet

the final zone being what was the center of the planet where the worldsoul resides makes sense, especially with Orweyna staying with us throughout 11.1

and the fact that the black blood plot vanishes entirely

[rain cave]

I mean aye I don’t disagree with it

I agree they were shuffled

[uncut vault]

even when you look at the khaz algar map, you can tell where the two empty spaces were originally left for zones, and the area where the roots in Azj-Kahet led was originally left blank

[rain cave]

Just wondering if harandar was planned to be patch or launch

I’m leaning to patch more now

I just didn’t know the patch zones had delves

[dense plover]

i mean 100% it was cut

but its still a good zone

[upper pasture]

i'd go as far as saying "cut" is a bad word for it, they simply went from thinking about it as a single expansion to a multi-expansion plot line

[dense plover]

same difference imo

rescheduled if you want to be nice

couldve used a bit more cleanup since they left some stories in

[upper pasture]

idk cut implies never to be used

[dense plover]

but the shift likely resulted in a more diverse and visually interesting zone

[upper pasture]

i agree there

[dense plover]

i suspect the first version of the zone, at a minimum, would not have had the enemy variety it has

it does explain why the karesh delve was a reused dungeon tho

and i dont think theyll do that again

very unpopular

[upper pasture]

the only thing i didn't like about that delve was the dragon was so slow in that one story

[dense plover]

it feels weird

[remote shuttle]

We know it wasn’t “cut” - we just know it was originally intended before the transfer to Saga: they literally confirmed it ages ago in the interview when mentioning the Haranir.

[deep pawn]

they literally are next week

we're going to get a Suramar delve

[dense plover]

oh yeah i forgot

the darkway

🙁

hopefully it got some changes from alpha/beta

[deep pawn]

I'm fine with reusing existing areas if it's not the only delve that patch

[dense plover]

fair

[deep pawn]

like revisiting stuff isn't bad

this entire expansion is revisiting

[rain cave]

I think delves are a good place to reuse old zones for mini stories honestly

Just awkward since they have variation and are more repetitive

But say they wanted to give the scarlet more stuff but can’t justify a full dungeon. Can do a quest line in the delve before it turns into a normal one for example

I think scarlets would be a funny delve because the variations would just be them doing different scarlet shenanigans and every week we just keep coming back to disperse them

Like “come on guys stop torturing the forsaken they were just building a house” or “give us those artifacts back” whilst they keep going “I would have gotten away with it if it weren’t for you meddling adventurers”

Delves also naturally lend themselves to a setting like the stormwind stockades, black rock mountain, dire maul, scholomance, etc

Since there’s easy explanations for why they might need clearing out of various groups

But not a full dungeon

I could see them also then maybe connecting archeology to delves?

[ember blaze]

I just think they need to be more story driven

Like maybe actual questlines in there lol

Things you cant really do on a regular dungeon

[elfin eagle]

Delves should be like mop scenarios

[deep pawn]

@ember blaze More song

[austere gazelle]

I thought some said here that there would be no naga stuff this expack 😄

[little hound]

Naga were shown to be active in that area ever since alpha, so thatr's not new to anyone. Ritual Sites however are new.

[upper pasture]

Yeah but the “no naga activity in midnight” was a bold face lie lol everyone knew it

[austere gazelle]

they're slowing bringing them back in because Azshara will be coming back down the line anyway

[upper pasture]

I mean realistically how we gonna have expansion in THE blood elf starting area/capital and not include naga? That was a staple enemy of theirs and like the other half of the forces attacking quel’danas

targeting trinkets in M+

oh glorious day.

[dense plover]

glad to see abyss anglers is coming back

they cut it and i was worried it was dead

lol fucking roasted

[upper pasture]

blizzard lies yet again smh

[dense plover]

i am so glad that the voidcore/voidforge stuff includes bountiful delves and nightmare prey hunts

[upper pasture]

solo players eating good in midnight

[dense plover]

that content often gets left out of boost-type systems and as a player that doesnt really raid or do M+, it feels good to finally be able to do that stuff

this is very clever - its like an evolution of titanforged but it isnt random and is something you do to an item

ITS HAPPENING

dracthyr will be able to stay in visage in battle!

mostly

[upper pasture]

if only they let us stay visage on character select D:

[dense plover]

wonder what this is

all excellent changes

also being able to change transmog with weather and time of day is neat

[crisp steeple]

they just need to add the Outfit list that you see in the Transmog window as a standalone button. This change is good, but am I supposed to remember every single transmog I have, which number they are and which ones I've recently changed.

[dense plover]

plumber has that

[crisp steeple]

I know, but I don't use addons, and shouldn't really need to. Such a basic thing just needs to be default

[dense plover]

you should use plumber - its awesome

its the one addon i think everyone should use

it has SO many great UI features

[crisp steeple]

Personally just don't like to use addons.

[noble mica]

There will be bonus roll? 🫠

[upper pasture]

Yeah, it seems like a great system too

Removes already acquired loot from that week.
So you can’t bonus roll the same item 7 times

[deep pawn]

you also get a lot more rolls

1 a week in raid that you pick what boss to use it on

Also fixes the "buy one boost and get the 3 items you want"

[upper pasture]

Has it been confirmed it’s 2 cores a week? I really like it.

2 extra rolls in a selected M+ dungeon a week sounds heavenly

[fathom fulcrum]

https://fxtwitter.com/MrGMYT/status/2032169145542807831

MrGM (@MrGMYT)

There are several new Gilnean-themed horse mounts in the Patch 12.0.5 data that are currently listed as coming from the Trading Post.
︀︀
︀︀• Gilnean Iron Charger
︀︀• Gilnean Copper Charger
︀︀• Pyrewood Rebel's Rouncey
︀︀• Gilneas Loyalist's Rouncey

**💬 4 🔁 5 ❤️ 55 👁️ 2.0K **

FxTwitter · Mar 12, 2026, 6:57 PM

wtf why is the horse eyeless???

thats disgusting, ewwww

[fiery veldt]

I think we need 2 donate..

[ember blaze]

https://x.com/THREADMUTER/status/2031609570934538643?s=20

ashtray 🚬🏳️‍⚧️ (@THREADMUTER)

@Krexxal so yknow the haranir?

X · Mar 11, 2026, 5:54 AM

lore i didnt know about steve danuser 💀

now he's at epic and theyre releasing what is basically the lich king?

[upper pasture]

i mean plant people isn't really an original idea. hell even plant worshipping people isn't an original idea FOR blizzard

[deep pawn]

Dark Age of Camelot had plant people before WoW even came out I think

Warcraft started as a Warhammer game

[ember blaze]

how about the name? 💀

[upper pasture]

sometimes it just be like that

[deep pawn]

Someone really likes the word Hierophant.

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/noriaki-kakyoin-emerauld-splash-hierophant-green-jojo-jojos-bizarre-adventures-gif-15805265

[deep pawn]

To me I think of EverQuest druids for Hierophant.

[little hound]

ah

[deep pawn]

That was the classes name for one expansion

[ember blaze]

why is thalyssra hiding 100 miles in the sky in the middle of nowhere

[deep pawn]

I don't get why so many are shocked these notes came out today

It's literally the exact same time roughly as TWW

Midnight preseason is one week longer I think

[glass flicker]

Because that's where Sunfury Spire now is. You can't reach it by foot anymore like in the original Silvermoon without teleporters. And Thalyssra is Lor'themar's wife.

It turned from a sin'dorei leaders headquarters into Lor'themar and Thalyssra's personal quarters.

[ember blaze]

ok, but where is her story involvement? 💀

shes just in the middle of nowhere 500 miles in the sky

randomly clicked a thingy and i saw her in there

[glass flicker]

"Where's her story involvement?"
It's the start of the expansion. Have patience.

[ember blaze]

her husband almost dying and she's nowhere to be seen yet? 💀

[deep pawn]

We should have the Suramar delve on reset

[upper pasture]

i mean, "yet"

[tulip sun]

We havnt finished the launch story

[glass fulcrum]

oh what II hadn't heard of this at all, we are getting a delve for current expac outside of it? thats kinda cool

[upper pasture]

yeah theres 2 (well 3 if you count the delve boss lair) that aren't out yet

[glass fulcrum]

ye but i mean out of eastern kingdoms top

[rain cave]

Yeah they’ve hid it from beta but there’s actually a full trailer cgi cinematic after the post raid campaign that’s just really steamy scene between lorthremar and thalysra

[fathom fulcrum]

disgusting ngl

[fathom fulcrum]

THE SILVER COVENANT IS GONE?!!?!??!?!

OH HELL NAH

that was literally the only representation of the high elves in the gayme aside from some randomass NPCs in the oldass Vanilla / Cataclysm zones 😭

[glass fulcrum]

Aren’t they in Dorngal wandering around?

[tulip sun]

Are you referring to the ||datamined ending stuff?||

[fathom fulcrum]

yeah

[fathom fulcrum]

no like... they are disbanded

treason leak 😔

[austere gazelle]

can I see that leak? 😏

[tulip sun]

I am holding off judgement until I see the full context...but it does feel premature. Maybe unearned? Storywise.

[fathom fulcrum]

Turalyon will have to do something about it 😡

[deep pawn]

I don't think he'll be around to do anything lol

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean... someone has to order the execution of Vereesa 😔

[fathom fulcrum]

its just the dialogue 😔

[noble mica]

What is silver covenant?

[fathom fulcrum]

High Elves

Alliance faction lead by mrs Vereesa Windrunner

wife of mister Rhonin

who perished to a Blood Elven bomb used to destroy Theramore

[noble mica]

Rest in pepperonis, Quel'dorei dreams. /respawns as blood elf lmfao 🤣

[fathom fulcrum]

all three Windrunner sisters dating humans is kraaaazy 👀

Kael'thas having crush on Jaina also kraaaazy

[remote shuttle]

Lore Highlight!
High elves are a neutral bunch of Exiled Elves that lived in Quel'thalas until Lor'themar banished them for being unwilling to siphon mana from living creatures during the destruction of the Sunwell in Warcraft 3; Taking up many places in the world formerly - with a large share going to Vereesa and her husband in a reconstructed Dalaran.

These elves remained neutral; joining no faction or politics until Wrath of the Lich King; Where Aethas made a subgroup under him to get permits for Horde to work alongside and within the Kirin Tor - The Sunreavers. Dissatisfied and angry that the people that had exiled them, and now giving the Horde a foothold in Dalaran, Vereesa formed the Silver Covenant, a subgroup of those High Elves willing to oppose the intergration of the Horde.

When Garrosh Hellscream took charge of the Horde armies in Northrend; the Silver Covenant was forced to make ties with the Alliance. Likely due to the Sunreavers being overseen by the Young Hellscream.

Stay tuned for episode 2: Garrosh Hellscream and the Sunreavers!

[royal sigil]

Tbh is there even a single lore couple of high/blood/void elf with another of same race?

That is alive, i should add

[fathom fulcrum]

uhm... Nathanos and Sylvanas were undead, does that count? 😭

prolly not

cant think of any ngl, there are prolly some side-side npcs from like 4 expansions ago

that have like a single line of dialogue and/or share the same name

there is a goblin x gnome couple, which is kinda kraaaazy ngl

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean there are high elves in TBC and literally have a wholeass outpost on draenor

[remote shuttle]

"A large share"

[fathom fulcrum]

well the high elves opposed the horde before silver covenant was formed

also the purge of dalaran was akshually justified ☝️ 🤓

[remote shuttle]

I'm just going off cites; The Silver Covenant bunch were largely neutral before Wrath. For the Lodges and people exiled and assaulted by the Horde; The short story "Shadows of the Sun" is a good exploration of that.

[fathom fulcrum]

might look into later

but like making them neutral in midnight is so L 😔

[remote shuttle]

It'd make some sense; given they were before Garrosh took over; their factional disputes were largely caused by him; he is gone, disputes down and now faction conflict on a new low in the wake of peace; revaluating political conflict is a realistically smart choice.

Plus; Its Elves. Whats an expansion without elves dancing between faction lines?

[little hound]

True.

[fathom fulcrum]

they didnt like the Horde before Garrosh

[little hound]

No but Garrosh is the only one so far that's Forced them into making a stand, that entire "Let's abuse the Kirin Tor and smuggle war artifacts through a neutral city" crap, kinda triggered both the Kirin Tor and the Silver Covenant.

• The Silver Covenant being mostly alliance-flavored has been for a while

Jaina and Veressa were pretty close after the fall of Theramore. Veressa lost a husband, and Jaina lost her little kingdom.

[fathom fulcrum]

Alliance embassy in Silvermoon!?!??!!?!?

[rain cave]

that's usually where embassies are!

[fathom fulcrum]

id rather there be none though

😔

[rain cave]

why 😔

[fathom fulcrum]

the blue eyed elves belong in Stormwind 🗣️

also rip WOTLK trolls, wont be in TLT ):

[deep pawn]

We've known the Drakkari are dead for a while

[pulsar minnow]

Interested in how they’ll handle that. We still have all the massive ruins of Zul’drak lying around

Maybe theyll just combine the zone into grizzly hills

[fathom fulcrum]

Bolvar murdered them!?!?!!??!

[deep pawn]

they murdered themselves

[fathom fulcrum]

noobs

[deep pawn]

between the guy who turned to the scourge and the rest eating their loas, they all died by the end

[fathom fulcrum]

I wonder what Vol'jin is gonna look like after they respawn

[dense plover]

maybe it sank into the ocean after the cataclysm

[pulsar minnow]

That might be one of the funniest things they could write in

Every troll city just flopping into the ocean

[dense plover]

it would be the easiest way to get rid of it lol

or like, the nerubians couldve invaded and there could be a giant hole in the ground where it used to be

[pulsar minnow]

That is actually a good point though- we never saw the cataclysms impact on northerend

I do love the idea of the nerubians turning the ruins of Zul drak into their own city

[deep pawn]

there's that whiteboard map that had a lot of the southeast sunken

though people refuse to believe they could willingly destroy Grizzly Hills.

[fathom fulcrum]

if Wotlk came out today the Frostborn would have been a neutral allied race 💔

oh no... TLT is WOTLK 2 😱

/j

[dense plover]

they definitely wont

[deep pawn]

why, it was relatively plot unimportant, it's literally a music track

the map had the stump of the world tree left as an island

[dense plover]

because its nostalgic

theyre not gonna get rid of stuff that nostalgic

[tulip sun]

Uh no

Theyre firmly alliance lol

Horde would get Taunka

[fathom fulcrum]

it was a joke 😭

[stoic kiln]

That thing in the haranir delve, that chtulhu like monster was from the void?

We're so back on lovecraftian monsters

[dense plover]

old god creation

[stoic kiln]

Well I've lost at least 4 expansions of wow lore since I got back playing

Is it better to actually play them using the quest organizer add on or will it be better to actually read their respective novelizations?

[tulip sun]

If your interested in the lore id judt play the main stories at least

I dont know anything about the organizer

[stoic kiln]

The Shattering
Thrall: Twilight of the Aspects
Wolfheart
Tides of War
Vol'jin: Shadows of the Horde
War Crimes
Illidan
Before the Storm
Shadows Rising
Sylvanas
This should be the novels to read to keep it up

[deep pawn]

Those aren't novelizations of events in game for better or worse

Many are prequels to their expansions even

[austere gazelle]

many are also a**

and bring nothing new

some even contradicts the in game events

Just read Chronicles Vol 3 and 4

You'll be caught up

[rain cave]

Put Nobel on

[elfin eagle]

war crimes and shattering is the main one

[elfin eagle]

war crimes was actually gas

[fathom fulcrum]

erasing High Elves in Midnight wasnt on my bingo card

😭

[deep pawn]

That mmo-c thread is gonna be spicy

[rain cave]

To be fair we erased the legion in legion, the faction war in bfa, the lich king in wotlk..

I think if anything they would get rid of the silver covenant because they awkwardly exist in the lore and as long as they exist people will ask for playable high elves

Ik elves always end up getting love but i think the calls for high elves would simmer down if they gave more of that style of customisation to the existing elves

Such as the tattoos, the feathers, more blue silver options for things like jewellery, underclothes, etc

In a way the velf and belf customisation is actually behind the standards of other races. They don’t have piercings, underclothing customisation, hair highlights are a newer one that has become pretty standard, they could be given more face shapes like humans because half elves,

[fathom fulcrum]

as if thats gonna make me stop

i am gonna hold off judgement till later in the expansion for now, but it does seem like they are just straight up merging them with blood elves, doubt there will be any blue buildings or whatever

[rain cave]

I feel like they’ll have to have at least an area for blue stuff

Maybe they can do a thing of clearing out plague lands and reclaiming stratholme as a human elf city

[fathom fulcrum]

maybe an alliance banner if we are lucky xd

[rain cave]

That’s more alliance focused

[fathom fulcrum]

or one of these high elven we got rn in silvermoon

[rain cave]

I’d be very interested in seeing if xal works with the scourge

[fathom fulcrum]

marking the "alliance zones"

are leaks allowed in this channel

[rain cave]

It seems that xal enjoys attacking us along our cultural fracture points

[fathom fulcrum]

Bolvar would neverrrrrr

[rain cave]

Light, void, horde, alliance

[rain cave]

I never said bolvar

[fathom fulcrum]

also who controls them now?

[rain cave]

Nobody

[fathom fulcrum]

what

[rain cave]

Maybe a few generals

[fathom fulcrum]

didnt the shadowlands guy make a new crown

[rain cave]

Not for the scourge

Was to counter domination and help the new arbiter

[fathom fulcrum]

then whats going on with them

cuz Bolvar aint controllin them anymore i guess

cuz dumbass Sylvanas tried to equip a plate helm and in a fit of rage disenchanted it

😭

[rain cave]

They’re feral or being controlled by rogue necromancers

[fathom fulcrum]

they just let them do all that for a decade??!!??!?!

NOOOOOO FROST DWARVES 😭

save them 💔

[deep pawn]

The neutral banners in Silvermoon are already pretty blue gray and lots of blue curtains

[fathom fulcrum]

"neutral banners"

and its blue and yellow 💔

[rain cave]

Don’t the covenant have a lodge in the plague lands?

Now that i think

[deep pawn]

There's a very small covenant area in the southwest of Eversong

It's a bit besieged by people who were purged from Dalaran.

They don't like Alliance.

[fathom fulcrum]

erm... i think those are ghosts

also deserved purge, thank Aethas for that one

also having them be there is just weird and Aethas whining about it after the raid sure was a decision 😭

like its literally his fault + get over it

[rain cave]

Imagine hating the factions in 2026

[fathom fulcrum]

bet

erm... those are void elven hairstyles what the sigma

[deep pawn]

I don't think so? Ghosts in WoW also don't travel that way

[fathom fulcrum]

they are ghosts

[deep pawn]

Then they don't look like any other WoW ghost in existence

[fathom fulcrum]

yeah well... not my problem

[deep pawn]

Alright then.

[fathom fulcrum]

well they literally look like high elves and levitate too

legit no idea why they are there

also nice purple windchanneler

wish we got a HD version, but oh well

some things werent meant to be

[deep pawn]

Hmm, they didn't seem to float to me but I haven't been there at 90, just while flying around gathering

[fathom fulcrum]

girl they float look

[deep pawn]

They're MSQ related probably and we haven't unlocked it yet

[deep pawn]

Niko, chill the hell out lol. Bugs can also happen.

They walked and ran whenever they attacked me

[fathom fulcrum]

they still float just have the normal running animation instead

for some reason

[deep pawn]

So maybe they hotfixed it as they get closer to the quest involved

[fathom fulcrum]

and also look like high elves, that aint no sunreaver

[rain cave]

they're probably missing a ghost vfx as well

[fathom fulcrum]

girl everything is wrong with them

they dont even look like sunreavers to begin with

but since they are called sunreavers i did kill few for the love of the gayme

[rain cave]

it wasn't just the sunreaver mages that were purged

also the like.. civilians

[fathom fulcrum]

should have green eyes then

[rain cave]

I think they're meant to have the ghost vfx material

not fleshy

[deep pawn]

Ironic since the spectral effect does work on player models haha

If you log out on the Windrunner Spire mount it makes you ghostly on log in.

[fathom fulcrum]

told yall they were ghosts 🙄

[deep pawn]

Sorry not everyone checks a mob creature type when before all they saw was them running and standing on the ground without any ghostly effects

[fathom fulcrum]

they literally levitate 🙄

[deep pawn]

As I said they didn't for me the last time I was in that area.

[fathom fulcrum]

next reset they are gonna be transparent

and the reset after they might even have green eyes!

[rain cave]

tbf they don't need green eyes if they're ghosts

I don't think they even could

unless they literally just make them semi transparent isntead of adding ghost effects

[dense plover]

truly appreciate the red text

[little hound]

Huh, so the ||dagger ||wasn't destroyed.

[upper pasture]

I don’t think we ever saw the dagger destroyed last we knew Wrathion tried to stab what’s his face with it and it flung away and landed on the ground no?

[dense plover]

and then they couldnt find it

like they explicitly said - nzoth should be in the dagger and we do not know where it went

[upper pasture]

if that's how it works sure, but i don't think we ever should have been led to think it was destroyed because we couldn't find it. i just assumed someone took it and has it until the plot decides it's important again

[little hound]

I doubt N'zoth was ever inside of that Dagger, as it never made physical contact with him, just part of his shell, if one can even call it that. Meat door?

[dense plover]

for sure

i never thought it was destroyed

they had it and then it was mysteriously gone

it was implied to have disappeared

[fathom fulcrum]

rip Alleria ):

now they are gonna turn mister Turalyon evil so that bozo Anduin can return as the CEO, truly unfortunate

[little hound]

She ain't dead.

[fathom fulcrum]

WHAT U MEAN

[little hound]

Her eyes were open when she fell.

[fathom fulcrum]

people die with their eyes open

[little hound]

She closed them when she collapsed, so apparently not.

[fathom fulcrum]

i dunno SOME people die with their eyes open

have u ever died

[little hound]

Every time i read what you write, i die abit inside.

She collapsed with her eyes closed, you don't just randomly open them again.

[fathom fulcrum]

WHAT DID I EVEN DO

[little hound]

[fathom fulcrum]

:smiel:

exactly

nothing 💔

oh right its the other raid, not the L'ura one

nvm

#FreeL'ura

[upper pasture]

she opens her eyes and reacts to her sons hand reaching out to her, she isn't dead.

[fathom fulcrum]

yeah i was wrong, my bad

anyways, Velen better cure L'ura, bro owes them that much 😡

wont, but one can dream 😔

[little hound]

According to Datamining? ||Nope||.

Owes them? In WoD when Velen tried to rescue a Dark Naaru, it cost him his life. I doubt that'll happen again.

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean... L'ura did save Velen and his Draenei

[little hound]

Velen has been obselete since Legion ended, so doubt he'll get any screen time.

[lone mantle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCulcoGSTBA

[noble mica]

And so it begins 😳

[acoustic kraken]

tell me this isnt gonna be some interstellar writing where she falls through a 'blackhole' but their love connection saves the day?

[fathom fulcrum]

that would be so beautiful 🥹

[autumn dagger]

maybe either turalyon or alleria will die, maybe turalyon will become lightbound trying to save alleria or smth like that

[upper pasture]

i mean, she can get bubbled to save the fall

and since he's lightforged he just lives? idk.

[autumn dagger]

for all intents and purposes alleria is p much dead rn, so smth fabulous would have to happen for her to resist getting stabbed with a mythical blade AND having a naaru taken out of her forcibly

AND falling to the core of azeroth lol

[upper pasture]

i mean very clearly it didn't "cut" her it forced the naaru out of her

[glass flicker]

I reckon Alleria is gonna "die" in a manner that her soul is sent to the Shadylands, but only kind of, which makes Sylvanas go "ok time to actually help Silvermoon" and she brings Alleria back with her, but it's actually just a fragment of her without void powers.

But that's just a theory. A game theory.

[autumn dagger]

doubt it, it would make ppl hate the SL even more lol

[glass flicker]

Do you think? :o

I mean, we've already returned there with Arator.

He said hi to his aunt and we came back.

[fathom fulcrum]

yes, it was a mistake to even include the shadowlands to begin with

[glass flicker]

I agree.

George and Odyn are my most hated villains in franchise history.

[fathom fulcrum]

Odin is a villain?!!?!?

[glass flicker]

This, this thing. George the Jailer.

[glass flicker]

You don't think he is?

[fathom fulcrum]

not really idk

[autumn dagger]

odin will 100% be a raid boss in the last titan

or smth like that

[upper pasture]

enslaving a whole ass race of sentient dragons lol

[autumn dagger]

he's been a piece of shit since the inception of wowlore

[fathom fulcrum]

but he is my friend 💔

[fathom fulcrum]

thats their beef

[upper pasture]

as long as you're useful to him

[fathom fulcrum]

girl... I am the greatest Warrior

[acoustic kraken]

homer hated sexy flanders too

[glass flicker]

Let me break it down for you, Mark. The entire plot of Stormheim was patting Odyn on the ass to prove we're "worthy."
Then we go fight in Valhalla to prove we're worthy. Then we fight him to prove we're worthy. Then we go fight Helya to prove we're worthy. But we have to fight his lieutenants to prove we're worthy.

Odyn hates us. We're unworthy of life in his eyes.

[fathom fulcrum]

not if you are a Warrior 💪

Rogues are stinky though

10 second stun cowards 😭

[autumn dagger]

I like how xalatath is effectively going along with her logic of "oh naaru are just long lost cousins"

[glass flicker]

As a current Rogue main, I approve of the 10 seconds stun.

No fun allowed.

[upper pasture]

the naaru probably came to her world and left them defenseless to the void.

[glass flicker]

Bask in awe and disgust at how I don't allow the stinky mages to play the game.

[upper pasture]

and she has a problem with that

[fathom fulcrum]

ok thats kinda based

[glass flicker]

So, we boil her motivation down to a grudge? :o

I feel like that would make her incredibly shallow.

[fathom fulcrum]

the Naaru are so based... I wish they succeeded at DELETING Revendreth 😔

[glass flicker]

"I will destroy the universe because I was betrayed and turned into the Ash Baby meme that one time."

[upper pasture]

i mean, if you had some how promised to protect my entire race and then left us to die yeah seems like a good reason as any

i'm sure it's more complex than that but maybe who knows

[glass flicker]

Feels like a disproportionate reaction.

[autumn dagger]

I mean, look at the draenei and their several sub stories

the priest order hall quest even has velen say "I need to stop blindly trusting these crystal aliens"

[upper pasture]

a child dies for a cause that promises her protection then spends thousands of milenia in a knife under another master wants revenge against everything that allies with the light?

[glass flicker]

Their sub stories are sob stories, and I like the Thrice-Exiled lady.

Forgor her name.

[autumn dagger]

yeah, but I think she represents that anti naaru sentiment very well

[glass flicker]

"Revenge against everything that allies with the Light" is kind of inaccurate. She literally wants an universal blackout.

No more life, no more light. That much has been said in Voidstorm.

[upper pasture]

anything that isn't void could be seen as an ally of the light

especially after a few short years in the knife

we know she isn't sane

[autumn dagger]

when callia got resurrected the void whispered about the light making friends with the enemy of everything

[glass flicker]

Hardly any void users are sane.

[autumn dagger]

and I think the inclusion of the sylvannas bit in midnight is to bring this back to the forefront

as in "there's some weird shit in the maw that even the void fears"

[glass flicker]

Also, and hear me out on this, what are the odds that the axe Garrosh used in Siege of Orgrimmar could have been another one of Xal'atath's race? Don't let it just be lazy naming.

His SoO axe is literally named Xal'atoh.

[upper pasture]

could have been that's where they orginally wanted to put her and they went with legion and adding back class legendaries and moved it to preists since it's more fitting

[autumn dagger]

yeah

unfortunately, I feel like xalatath is just following "naming conventions"

[uncut vault]

Xal’atoh’s whispers are also just the voice of Yshaarj, not its own entity

[autumn dagger]

but It'd be cool having xalatath be like "you mortals keep leaving world ending weapons lying around"

bc we dumb dumb

[glass flicker]

I just wish they'd explain why the naming convention.

But again, it's not the first time.

[upper pasture]

"someone thought it was cool" until it needs to be something else

[uncut vault]

Most likely it was just “that was a void weapon, let’s name this new void weapon something similar”

Xal’atath’s current backstory was not written whatsoever back in Legion

[glass flicker]

https://www.wowhead.com/npc=89016/ravyn-drath

Oh my goodness! The home of the Venthyr!

Sometimes, Blizzard isn't even trying to make NPCs or zones distinct from each other in names.

There's a rare in Isle of Thunder named Lu-Ban. The Monk order hall mount is named Ban-Lu.

It's funny if you pay attention.

[fathom fulcrum]

the Naaru tried to prevent Shadowlands from happening...

😔

[lone mantle]

No, the Light was punishing the Venthyr for the dreadlords’ treachery.

[fathom fulcrum]

what u mean "the Light"

it was the Naaru 😭

[glass flicker]

Same difference. The Naaru are the will of the Light, you could say they're divine messengers.

[rain cave]

I could see turalyon basically keeping as bubble around them at the bottom of whatever void pit they're in, trying to heal her. Putting down the sword, using her as his grounded anchor to de-radicalize himself from the light as his last act before being killed

that lines up with the setup they've been giving, as well as a pretty straightforward reason for why he's not gotten a new model

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/khadgar-sus-sus-suspicious-futurama-fry-sus-suspicious-meme-gif-27506206

[glass flicker]

To be fair, that line is a blood elf favorite. Kael'thas just says it twice.

Prince Valanar says it in ICC, too.

[rain cave]

it's like the british "keep calm and carry on"

blood elves can't got 5 minutes without some kind of setback

[deep pawn]

Well, they are very clear the Season 1 finals are in June haha

[fathom fulcrum]

I cant believe they killed Hogger 😔

Forest just setback 😔

[rain cave]

what we thinking could happen after march of queldanas

I'm wondering if arator could re-absorb luura?

[pulsar minnow]

I'm guessing L'uura is just killed and Alleria loses her void powers

[glass flicker]

Disc Paladin, one wing holy, one wing shadow? 👀

[pulsar minnow]

I think wherever the Sun/Dark/Dawnwell takes Xal, Arator, Alleria and Turalyon are gonna jump in after her

Kinda echoing how Alleria and Turalyon went through the dark portal without Arator, but this time with him together as a family or whatever (cue fast and furious)

[glass flicker]

Oh, Alleria and Turalyon are already kinda confirmed missing, aren't they? Umbric only managed to teleport Arator out.

Unless post-raid quests say otherwise.

The cinematic shows Umbric and Arator at the end only.

[pulsar minnow]

Oh yeah well I guess if they dont show up after the Raid

either way I think Arator is going to follow them

He's not letting them disappear forever this time

Would be a cool narrative switch. Arator growing up always without them but needing them, and having that reversed. Now they need Arator

[glass flicker]

Well, the final chapter of the questline is called "Dawn of a new Well."
So what I'm thinking is that L'ura is thrown into the Sunwell too, potentially making the Void Elves and Blood Elves shake hands and call it even, rename the Sunwell to the Dawnwell, and everyone lived happily ever after.

The end.

As with the Arator quests, I'd like for him to agree with Xal'atath on something and accept SOME Void into himself to balance his Light. Shadows can only be cast if Light is shined at something. It makes sense for Arator to realize there can't be one without the other.

Void is the absence of Light, and I feel like this isn't a stretch.

Especially with the parasitic, almost disease-like manner of which they are depicting the Void. Like, yeah. Bacteria breeds faster in the dark. :D

Someone at Blizzard knows physics.

[deep pawn]

My guess is still that the 12.1.5 boss will be void Turalyon

[glass flicker]

I'm actually thinking we might fight Arator. Both Lightblinded and Void-corrupted at the same time, but we only weaken him enough so he calms down.

[pulsar minnow]

then we gotta fight arator in 12.2

gotta get the whole family 😄

[fathom fulcrum]

what? why?

||isnt bro literally at the dawnwell with all the other people?||

[deep pawn]

For now

[fathom fulcrum]

but whyd he become void 😭

thats so weird

I mean i see what they did to Lothraxion and the "lightblind" paladins in general so i would not be soupriced at this point

if Turalyon has to die, it should be a heroic sacrifice if anything, fight me

also bro has the coolest weapon imo

who is going to lead the Alliance if Turalyon dies 😔

[deep pawn]

my theory is we'll break him free and he'll tell us Xal's plan for 12.2

[fathom fulcrum]

where Azshara patch then

😭

[rain cave]

I don't think turalyon is making it out of this expansion I'll be real chief

potentially even next week

[stoic kiln]

I am shocked

I am simply shocked, speechless and paralysed with this raid

What a story

[little hound]

[rain cave]

could see arator having to really use his patience whilst we work with nzoth on something lol

I do really hope the naga and nzoth end up being more than just enemy fodder

Alternatively, since she has the blade again now it could simply be that that's simply a remnant of what was IN the blade

like an echo of nzoth still in the blade. Reinforces the idea that the black blade was actually a mourneblade

PLUS the idea of alleria being killed by a mourneblade, especially since the voidspire cinematic mirrors the jailer sylvanas cutscene. That would be exactly the type of thing to get sylvanas to come out and be on the war path

you dare to hurt her sister with a mourneblade, to corrupt the sun well? I imagine sylvanas will not stand for that

[little hound]

Sylvanas never cared for her sisters THAT Badly. She did alot of shit, but she was never under the Jailer's influence. Does she feel remorse? Probably. But she's got her own goals, as she said in the Maw, her own duty.

[fathom fulcrum]

I mean she was missing part of her soul or whatever, no?

I dont even with this videogame anymore ngl

😭

[little hound]

Part of her soul was taken by Frostmourne, thus under the Jailer's keepsake. The other part was returned to her when she was raised by Arthas.

[rain cave]

I mean, yes. But my point is that the things sylvanas DOES care about, is defending the sunwell (the part of her soul that WAS missing before) and the PTSD of mourneblades, something the banshee queen part of her felt strongly about

plus she is literally responsible for the black blade ending up where it has today

at least in part

she delivered it to azshara, made the bargain with her that led to it being used against nzoth and then lost

and seemingly found again by xal

but this entire plot point hinges on the black blade actually being an important element of that cinematic and the story going forward, and not just a callback that ties off a plot thread blizzard don't want people speculating on anymore

[uncut vault]

Her goal for everything she did was entirely motivated by the injustice of being parted from her family, she absolutely cares for them haha

she even almost killed and raised her sisters into undeath to prevent them from being lost to her

[little hound]

True.

[pulsar minnow]

Not to be like an “erm ackshually ☝️🤓” guy but I think Blizz might be inclined to not go down this route unless the black blade gets a different model

Problem being the runes don’t match with the current domination alphabet

But also they could just handwave it and say these are new runes or whatever on the black blade

We’re bound to see Sylvanas’ return either way in the Last Titan.

They wouldn’t have brought her back in the Arator questline solely for his own development. Also, we know the Primus has ties to Aman’thul, they’re building up for a massive shadowlands retcon, and there is that popular theory that the Primus is the real jailer…

[rain cave]

counterpoint, it was made using the knowledge of mourneblades stolen by the void during their shadowlands invasion that we see in bastion questing. And the runes are adapted for void beings specifically

since we see it not suck allerias soul out

only luura

plus part of nzsoth

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah and again they could just write that in

I mean she got her hands on the blade after it just vanished they could literally just do whatever they want

[rain cave]

yeah I'm personally a fan of the black blade being void adapted mourneblade tech

[pulsar minnow]

Also question for anyone more informed but are Dominaar void beings? Or just ghostly alien guys

[rain cave]

ties into yogg calling himself the god of death

and other stuf

[pulsar minnow]

Also domanaar… and putting giant mind control necklaces on these giant monsters just reminds me of SL stuff

[rain cave]

she really is a dommy mommy

[fathom fulcrum]

Vereesa even considering joining Sylvanas was pretty insane lmao

girl has been a traitor for a while 💔

whip out the gallows 💔

[rain cave]

0/10 ragebait

[fathom fulcrum]

the only reason she didnt join her was cuz she got kids 😭

what u mean ragebait, thats canon

War Crimes by Christie Golden

[rain cave]

yeah but calling her a traitor for that is ragebait

[fathom fulcrum]

how

[rain cave]

end of MoP there was reasonable peace between the factions. In fact isn't that when the pilgrimage to the sunwell thing started up?

[fathom fulcrum]

also the fact she is the one responsible for the blood elves taking back their request to re-join the Alliance makes it even funnier

[fathom fulcrum]

then she is like... damn I miss Silvermoon... I am gonna join the Horde

like lmao 💔

[rain cave]

if the alliance weren't so damn judgemental there wouldn't need to be a faction split

as much as I know the core faction thing is part of warcrafts identity I'd be very interested in seeing them change the reason for division

so races could go to either side, but they'd actually have cultural reasons for it

[fathom fulcrum]

oh hell nah

orcs with cameras and stormwind guard plushies allowed

normal orcs not allowed

[rain cave]

alternatively a change to how the race system is even done

[fathom fulcrum]

get visa first too

[rain cave]

but yeah it would be interesting to have like, choose a base race then subrace and then the subraces can be neutral or have faction specific ones

like void elf/ blood elf

[fathom fulcrum]

high elf*

[rain cave]

that could be one as well

or just the name for the base race

[fathom fulcrum]

also i feel like we should be talkin on steam instead

and not in #beta-ptr-spoilers

💀

[rain cave]

why we're discussing WoW it's not just a convo for you and me

I want to hear others thoughts

[fathom fulcrum]

I dont, also this is literally the wrong channel to do so 😭

also check steam bruh

[rain cave]

I find it funny how with DH's getting void eyes and devourer spec

the void elves must be pretty salty, being exiled whilst the blood elf DH's are just walking around all voidy

completely fine

[rain cave]

It’s just been pointed out to me that after voidspire the alliance is headless at the moment

[deep pawn]

Greymane is still sorta there

Anduin likely steps up in 12.0.7

[little hound]

I mean, we got beat BADLY

Lost Alleria & Turalyon.
Xal'atath got her Naaru Price.
Vanguard of the Light? OBLITERATED. Survivors are roaming lost in the Voidstorm.
Silvermoon? Directly being NUKED In the Sunwell by L'ura.

[worn crown]

At last!!! A raid finale where we are not the glorious conquerors 🙂

[little hound]

I honestly think losing at times is healthy for story progression. Winning so often leaves very little room for development.

[deep pawn]

For two whole weeks haha

[rain cave]

I still believe turalyon could be alive

maybeee alleria as well

if alleria is alive turalyon won't be pretty soon

is my opinion

[deep pawn]

I'm still expecting Void Turalyon as our 12.1.5 boss

[fathom fulcrum]

Damn thats kraaaazy

Xal'atath achieved what Kil'jaeden and Sargeras could not for decades

🙄

[fathom fulcrum]

oh hell nah bruh

bro should have died back in Shadowlands ngl

Anduin has like 0 aura imo

also why isnt bros sword glowing 😭

[pulsar minnow]

But isn’t 12.1 just completely troll/Ula’tek themed

What would Turalyon have to do with that stuff. Yeah he was kidnapped by Amani back in the day but that’s about it

[little hound]

Yup

[deep pawn]

12.1.5 single boss raid exists to pivot us back to the Midnight plot

[little hound]

Turalyon won't matter outside of story quests

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah but there’s plenty of other ways to do that lol

[fathom fulcrum]

I dont see how he becomes void infused bruh

is that even possible

[deep pawn]

He got slurped down the Void well

[pulsar minnow]

Turalyon and Alleria are wherever they are together. Good chance they’re at the WorldCore/plane where Azeroth is being held right now

[fathom fulcrum]

they are at the dawnwell i believe 😭

after march raid

unless they are elsewhere

which i doubt

[deep pawn]

As far as I know none of the vanguard, Alleria, or Turalyon are there after March

[fathom fulcrum]

they talk to Arator after the raid so

😭

they both are somewhere

unless Arator is talkin to himself 💀

bro looks like someone who talks to themselves ngl

[deep pawn]

I didn't realize any of the post March stay a whiles had been datamined outside some Dawnwell stuff

[fathom fulcrum]

the entire transcript was i believe

[deep pawn]

Like last I had read that they were missing after March

[pulsar minnow]

There’s nothing post March with Alleria and Turalyon tho

[fathom fulcrum]

although they both dont say anything 😭

no idea why they making them go missing again though

[pulsar minnow]

The only ppl there are Shandris, Umbric, Romath, Liadrin, Halduron, Thalyssra, Lor’themar, Vereesa, and Aethas

[fathom fulcrum]

is that so they can put Sylvanas and Anduin bacc 💔

also I love how all the lore charakters are like genuinely powerful but dont do anything

like ever

thats so funny

[deep pawn]

I do think it'll be a bit disappointing that anyone who wasn't here for these two weeks won't experience it the same

[pulsar minnow]

There’s a datamined line of dialogue from Liadrin saying that ||The Sunwell is connected to Azeroth directly|| and Umbric basically tells the audience that 12.2 is going to be ||The World Core||

[fathom fulcrum]

plz no more Earthen

[pulsar minnow]

So that’s where Alleria and Turalyon are now

[fathom fulcrum]

thats like the most boring race ever

[pulsar minnow]

If anything we’ll get Thraegar there

[deep pawn]

I really really hope they decide to make this a 4 tier expansion because it'll be so disappointing if one third of this expansion is troll island with 0 plot relevance

[fathom fulcrum]

thats also Earthen

[fathom fulcrum]

Undermine exists

at least Gallywix gone for good 😭

[deep pawn]

And? I ranted a lot about Undermine being "this could have been an email"

[fathom fulcrum]

rip Renzik though 😔

the only Alliance goblin is gone

at least they didnt have to cremate him

[deep pawn]

TWW had it's upsides, but in general it's plot pacing was atrocious and sacrificed for Midnight and TLT

[fathom fulcrum]

i wish we got the Harandar zone thingy instead of Undermine ngl

so there would be no Harandar in Midnight

🙏

[pulsar minnow]

I love how Harandar has borderline zero plot relevance to midnight right now. Maybe in the 12.2 they’ll be more important but right now wow they’ve been sidelined

[deep pawn]

Undermine and Ula'tek are "We did this because there was no other time we could"

[pulsar minnow]

I think they’ll find a way to tie it back to the main story

[tulip sun]

That dialogue was the one pre raid

[fathom fulcrum]

no and i think he has the talking to himself thingy

[deep pawn]

They've already told us, not directly, but pretty clearly that 12.1 is is dealing with a local threat that pops up vs a Xal threat

[tulip sun]

....

[fathom fulcrum]

I could not find Xavius in Rift of Aln 😔

very disappointing

[deep pawn]

And 12.1.5 pivots us back to the Xal plot

[pulsar minnow]

Well Kith’ix is there. We also now know N’zoth is alive in some way so clearly they’re gearing it up to still be a void plot in some way

[fathom fulcrum]

N'zoth is the goat who gave us free will, no?

[deep pawn]

Maybe the shade of Nzoth is the one boss raid

[fathom fulcrum]

or was that some other squid

[pulsar minnow]

I really wonder if they’re planning to have Xal place N’zoths soul into kith’ix’s body

[deep pawn]

We'll find out in June I guess

[fathom fulcrum]

i hope they drop Gnomeregan patch in TLT b4 the grand finale (plz be over, this saga thingy is so boring 😩 )

[deep pawn]

But I'm not expecting Kithix really

[fathom fulcrum]

WAIT

the radiation resurrected N'zoth or something

TUFF

LETS GOOOO GNOMEREGAN PATCH

[tulip sun]

Id almost want them to wait till its a launch main hub to give it proper focus and depth

[pulsar minnow]

I mean I’m expecting it because realistically what other thing could be on Ula’tek that’s connected to the void

[deep pawn]

I think it's a mistake expecting void at all

I'm expecting mostly venom or fel.

[pulsar minnow]

I mean Zul’jan’s got void on his hand

And he’s our lead in to the patch

And it’s also notably not cosmic void

[deep pawn]

This raid is to be our break from the main plot and be less purple in general before we go back to more purple

I really hope it's not just yet another "force the loa to serve"

[tulip sun]

Ehhhh the isle very clearly has that Kithix connection. Id be shocked if it wasnt used

[pulsar minnow]

I mean there’s nothing saying the isle can’t just have the fel/poison stuff and still have kithix down there

It is ula’teks island he was just buried there

[deep pawn]

I just don't think we'll see anything voidy until 12.1.5

I wonder if they are gonna remove the Voidstorm from the sky after March. While it'd make story sense it'd kinda remove the Midnight

[tulip sun]

I dont see why theyd avoid void entirely

[deep pawn]

Why would we need a raid to redirect us to the main plot?

[pulsar minnow]

That’s assuming we need one?

Unless I’m misunderstanding you, we do have the one boss harandar raid coming soon but it doesn’t seem connected to anything going on

[little hound]

Trolls have a history of being Shadow Hunters, or Shadow magic in general. Could also just be some fumes from their weaponry. Doubt it has to be with Void..Yet

[pulsar minnow]

That is definitely true

Man I hope they use this as an opportunity to bring vol Jin into the fold. I know it’s Amani and he’s Darkspear but cmoooonn

Unless they want to put him in Zul’drak? If they decide it still exists

[little hound]

I have my doubts, as he might be reborn as a Loa due to Rezan's essence, but the thing with that is also a debate: He Died a Darkspear, and was given a Zandalari Loa's Essence. So which Troll Tribe's Loa will he be?

[fathom fulcrum]

there is no void atm 😔

just Fel

[pulsar minnow]

Haranir loa

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah I know. But Ula’tek is Kith’ix’s resting place

[fathom fulcrum]

fair, just saying

[elfin eagle]

I refuse to believe 12.1 is like just zul jan

It’ll tie into everything

[pulsar minnow]

Also - with the N’zoth thing. Could be that his deal with Xal’Atath was a body for a body. He knew he was going to die all the way back during the height of the black empire because he read our minds during the time shenanigans in dragonflight. Now Xal’s got the knife? I wouldn’t mind a little N’zoth in the void expansion

[fathom fulcrum]

evil Alexstrasza boss is gonna be kraaaaazy

i hope

Void Alexstrasza!??!!?!? 😱

thats kraaaazy, no? (Dragonflight)

[deep pawn]

We have single boss raids in 12.0.7 and 12.1.5 7 is side story, .5 exists to get is back on the plot

They told us this already

[fathom fulcrum]

nooooo 😔

rip Arcellon

[shrewd glen]

Thank you!

[deep pawn]

Blizzcon will probably reveal 12.1.5, 12.2, and 13.0

[fathom fulcrum]

why did they leak Overwatch mobile already though 😭

[deep pawn]

They didn't leak? It was announced

[little hound]

😂😂

[fathom fulcrum]

*spoil

[deep pawn]

A mobile game doesn't need to take up Blizzcon time if it's ready now

[rain cave]

Also they’ve learned after Diablo immortal to keep mobile spinoff announcements away from their hype events

Just so it can’t potentially get negative press associated with that

“New overwatch announcement” being a mobile game is the exact sort of thing that would cause a certain section of the internet to boo

[elfin eagle]

A blizzard interview said there’s different types of art direction from void: so I could see the old god void here because of the distinction of cosmic void and like love craft void

[deep pawn]

And they did say Midnight was gonna focus on the celestial.

[elfin eagle]

well fel loa impacting remenents of some voidy stuff makes it green celestial void

[rain cave]

Old god void is purple cosmic is blue

Roughly

There’s overlap

[elfin eagle]

yeah

its like

blackish purple

i actually really like the art design for the void i like its not old goddey

[elfin eagle]

what is this from?

[rain cave]

Personally head canon is that old gods are alagams of void and death, made using knowledge stolen during their invasion of the shadowlands. Which was also used to create the black blade, since it behaves like A mourneblade

[deep pawn]

The quests in DF

Tyr before he died was taunted with betrayals from the Aspects

The only one that hasn't happened yet is Alexstrasza's

[elfin eagle]

ah i didnt do df so my b

[elfin eagle]

i love that

im unfortunatley not big brained enough to theorize that hard i dont trust my knowledge to do so but ive always thought old gods were life influence and some sort of cross

[rain cave]

Personally think they are more death aligned because of their focus on souls, the voids invasion of the shadow lands, plus maldraxxus being a colour palette swap away from literally just being an old god body as a zone

Also nerubians, which apparently are old god made minions but then the house of spiders in maldraxxus existed before them and has similar architecture and look as a race

[fathom fulcrum]

old gods kinda based, no?

[elfin eagle]

do oldl golds focus on souls though? i always felt like they were more focused on physicality or things relating to free will such as emotion with ysharj

there was this theory a wild back that the old gods were part of a singular form cthun the eye yogg the mouth etc etc i always had a thought it could be like body (cthun flesh pockets) heart (yshaarj and emotion) soul (yoggs connection to northrend and saronite) head (nzoth and his schemes: to think and weasel your way out of stuff): like the stuff all encompassing that make a person whole

[elfin eagle]

bugs and old gods are weird

[elfin eagle]

i could see a twist that titans learned the controlling power of repeating cycles from the old gods: or using the magic old gods use to not die to keep sould in the shadowlands

[elfin eagle]

biiiig time: shoutout to my boy cthun

rest are just sitting like dr evil cthun just straight went "sup motherfuckers have some bugs"

[rain cave]

“I am the God of death” yogg
Plus the curse of flesh is the thing that makes titan races mortals, and actually go to the shadowlands when they die

And we see in the nerubian wall art that they would take sacrifices/eat people

[obsidian karma]

I like the theory that old gods are dream manifestation from azaroth . A guarden of the dreaming azaroth that got twisted by the taitn when they stole her dream and reshape it to the emerald dream

That's why old gods have power of the emerald dream and can easily get in and courpt it and why the taitn can't kill them instead they imprisoned them

[upper pasture]

but we already know why the titans couldn't kill the old gods, because they've burrowed into azeroth and cause irreparable harm if killed and usually just come back when killed

[rain cave]

You could argue that because of how deep they burrowed that they became part of her on a sense. That she gave them free will and that’s why they fought so much and were against xal

[obsidian karma]

That burrowed could be in spirit not physical

[rain cave]

It was physical

The maelstrom exists

Look up the lore around yshaarj and amanthul

[obsidian karma]

The chain on the old god are not physical chain . And where yet to see one being tore on out

[obsidian karma]

The eternal well being destroy what caused it

[rain cave]

And the well was created after yshaarj was pulled out.

And considering the sun well is apparently linked to Azeroth directly, and that was made with liquid from the well of eternity…

[obsidian karma]

I would rather keep my tin foil hat than believe a titan lie

[royal sigil]

Exactly, hence why 13.0 is gonna be the arthas redemption arc fr

[pulsar minnow]

hey not sure if anyones noticed but theres new Battle.net pfps!

Alleria, Anduin, Arator, Faerin, Liadrin, Lor'themar, Orweyna, Xal'atath, Thrall, Zul'jan, and Zul'jarra all in Bayard Wu's style

[fathom fulcrum]

Turalyon didnt get an update o7

one way to announce you are killing off a charakter 💔

[glass flicker]

We also finally got Trickster Rogue and I'm very happy about that.

Unfortunately, Fatebound performs significantly better this patch. That, I'm not very happy about.

I like the extra grappling hooks, but not the lacking burst damage and no Coup de Grâce.

[rain cave]

I mean I've predicted this ages ago lol

only way he's living is if he gets a new model in an upcoming patch

personally of the opinion that he's going to die to keep Alleria alive somehow

we've seen what his generation of paladins can do when pushed to their limits

and Alleria is his anchor, without her he goes mad and I think they want the story to go in the red herring direction

setting up turalyon as a damaged, lightblind person. With all the anchor stuff that alonsus mentions, etc.

Framing Alleria as in control, but then SHE loses control, and he sacrifices himself for her.

Story summary being that Alleria focused too much on the target in front of her, she was blind to her own weaknesses and lacked an anchor that she was really fighting for, Turalyon dies showing that he DID have one and despite his flaws he had his priorities in the right place

I'm very interested in seeing if the sunwell does in fact become the dawn well and is a mixture of both light and void

that aesthetic could look very nice

and I hope we get armour to match it, like we did with shadowflame

[fathom fulcrum]

inb4 bro just gets killed by Xalussy in a cutscene

[glass flicker]

Oh dude, imagine if the Dawnwell will have a cycle like Beledar.

Eversong could genuinely be the most beautiful zone in the game.

[deep pawn]

Thalyssra appears to be missing from the war table, that seems like a bug based on Arator's dialog

[rain cave]

she's on lunch break

[pulsar minnow]

she forgot to bring the arcan'dor fruit she'll brb

[rain cave]

she bringing fruit salad to the sunwell defense cookout

[deep pawn]

"Any word High Arcanist?" .... no one there

[pulsar minnow]

Everyone's invited but you gotta bring your own arcwine

That was alleria's job but she's on paid leave right now

[rain cave]

Sabbatical

[deep pawn]

Part of me is sad we'll never see a L'ura empowred Beledar.

[pulsar minnow]

Really sucks that Beledar kinda got sidelined in general

I get why it happened though, The Sunwell is already iconic and its easier to tie lore significance to it over beledar - even if Beledar kinda looks cooler

[rain cave]

I expect them to re-visit beledar at some point when it falls out of the ceiling into the depths with the kobyss

[deep pawn]

if datamining is right, special music for 2 weeks is a hell of a flex

[fathom fulcrum]

https://fxtwitter.com/Portergauge/status/2036522160446181451

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge)

I am glad this is given proper pushback from the Sunreavers, but I hope they're not framed as wrong lol

**💬 2 🔁 2 ❤️ 33 👁️ 11.8K **

FxTwitter · Mar 24, 2026, 7:14 PM

but they are wrong 💔

[fathom fulcrum]

wonder when they akshually fixing Teldrassil though

https://fxtwitter.com/Portergauge/status/2036519387885346913/photo/2

Portergauge 🏳️‍🌈 (@Portergauge)

Okay wow they literally are just framing Anasterian as the perfect king to aspire to lol

**💬 3 🔁 1 ❤️ 19 👁️ 3.1K **

FxTwitter · Mar 24, 2026, 7:03 PM

i have been going thru Portergauge's high elf stuff and its REALLY bad

like lmao 💔

at least this lady knows ball

lowkey wish they werent there at all atp

[dense plover]

why is anastaerian bad?

[jade basalt]

Yeah all that Anasterian trashing is a bit odd

Him making Quel'Thalas leave the Alliance has never been portrayed as a terrible thing in-universe

And elves still respecting their last king who died fighting Arthas just makes sense

[pulsar minnow]

Anasterian kind of was just an isolationist that screwed his people because of it

He ignored the rest of the alliance unless the issue concerned quel thalas directly, and unfortunately ignoring the Arthas issue caused an undead army to appear at his doorstep

He's not like evil but he's not the smartest cookie

[fathom fulcrum]

Id say thats pretty "evil"

[pulsar minnow]

I mean

The Lich King is evil

Anasterian was just a douche

[fathom fulcrum]

well not that evil 😭

[elfin eagle]

its kind of like daeron the daring in got

he was a shit king but he won a major battle so was a fan favorite even though he did nothing right