beta-ptr-spoilers

[rain cave]

So i hope they don't turn them into enemies or forget about them

the main thing that sort of dictates how I feel midnights story will go is how wide is the cast going to be stacked?

[deep pawn]

Well there's the 4 portraits rumors

[rain cave]

Is anduin or jaina going to keep being important? Will Tyranda, Thalyssra, Malfurion, Sylvanas, etc also be a part of the elf stuff as mainline characters?
What about the trolls, is talanji and vol'jin coming back as well as Orweyna, maybe rokhan?
There's undead in silvermoon so maybe we get Calia and Lilian Voss.
Then there's Lorthremar, Turalyon, Alleria as the 3 we know will be in there to some extent. But now it feels like the cast is just so BIG

not to mention people like Vereesa, Valeria, Lor'thremar, etc

[pulsar minnow]

My guess for the zones is Eversong, Ghostlands, Quel’danas, Zul’aman, and then either Silvermoon or Northeron

Northeron or whatever that area to the left ends up being is probably more realistic, but my personal hope is Silvermoon is converted into an entire zone on its own

[deep pawn]

I'd prefer Quel'thalas, Zul Aman, Lordaeron Highlands m, and then Lordaeron Forests

[pulsar minnow]

Also to add to this. While I understand it probably isn’t possible to create this type of scale, I still want blizz to attempt to capture the sheer immense size Quel Thalas as a city is supposed to be in lore

[ember blaze]

i want something like boralus

though i guess suramar is also another good example

an actual big city

small city hubs suck 😡

[pulsar minnow]

Agreed

Not gonna lie I’m still disappointed in Zuldazar

It was supposed to be way bigger but since blizz wanted to do two continents, they had to maintain that half the continent sunk into the ocean during the cataclysm

Wish we coulda gotten something this huge

Not to go on a tangent but zones like Suramar still stick in my mind to this day purely because of how well thought out the entire area is. So many catacombs to explore, like the arcway in fel soul hold, or falanaar, and especially Meredil

[rain cave]

Boralus where a portion is an enemy zone? maybe a section where there's a bunch of mana addicts abusing void magic to sate their hunger

[ember blaze]

i just meant that its a big city

even if we dont interact with that other area 💀

which imo was dumb

then zuldazar was the shittiest city ever developed...

[ember blaze]

the giant pyramid where the king lived was cool, but that being it was 💀

and then on gameplay perspective, having to walk down/up across the map to do stuff with no flying...

[pulsar minnow]

Don’t get me started

I race changed to a zandalari for the pterodactyl racial just to get down to the docks

[ember blaze]

and now that we can fly, traversing a big city wouldnt be an issue

tho undermine is also a nice example with the fast car

u got a big city, but getting around isnt bad

[pulsar minnow]

Honestly I feel like drive was too fast for undermine

The city was already pretty small and drive just made it feel tiny

Really wonder if they’re going to keep the verticality of silvermoon intact in the revamp

Could be cool to see tall buildings in a wow city for once

[rain cave]

I also felt like it just didn't work with some of the corners and props they'd put around

[ember blaze]

what are the chances there is no silvermoon cause itll be destroyed? 💀

[rain cave]

I get it's more of a dynamic system that requires more thought but I kept getting caught on stuff because it still just feels like I'm controlling a dot whilst the rest of the car is just a graphic that has nothing to do with what's going on

[pulsar minnow]

I think low - this is like the perfect time to give the city a much needed revamp

Also- they’ve already mentioned the fact they want you to be able to fly through the city since it didn’t have a roof before. Suggesting the city is intact

[rain cave]

just realized the midnight logo being the moon eclipsed is meant to reflect silvermoon

💀

[pulsar minnow]

Idk why it never occurred to me but it’s kinda funny the SUNwell is next to silverMOON city

[rain cave]

also it's called silvermoon despite being completely golden

thought I suppose that was more of a blood elf thing that came after it was already named

since high elf stuff was more blue and silver

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah

This was from the alleria short

I now have the mental image of Kael’thas getting any and every elf to just grab a red paint bucket and go to town

[rain cave]

after a revolutionary event that involved a lot of people including a king dying ... Kael'thas performed a large regime change and painted everything red whilst becoming a cultural icon for his people

welcome back lenin/stalin

[elfin eagle]

I do think for what’s it’s worth for midnight/tlt to have some of the best artistic direction we’ll see.

It’s always been good but this has the added benefit of nostalgia/a great foundation to build off of, the art team know these environments well and on top of that have a clearer vision to work on this then other xpacs or even this current one due to metzen returning.

[zealous sedge]

Undercoin is getting reset for season 3 just like season 2?

[upper pasture]

Yes

[zealous sedge]

thanks couldnt find it

[deep pawn]

random leak has "Outland is gone, people need new homes." hmm

[uncut vault]

Most frustrating part of Zandalar for me is Zuldazar tbh

the city has pathing issues but its visually very nice, and has nice little nooks and crannies

but Zuldazar is just... not even trying to feel lived in

Compared to Kul Tiras, which all feels like a cohesive part of a national ecosystem, there isn't a single farm in Zuldazar, only ruined ones in Vol'dun from thousands of years ago

They were going for the idea that Zuldazar was the remaining heart of the empire compared to the ruins outside, but Zuldazar doesn't even feel like a basic kingdom, let alone one of the oldest civilizations on Azeroth

[pulsar minnow]

This. Hell, a while back I went around and explored the entire continent and counted every single house I saw and I think in total there were like 13-16 houses in the entire continent

It bothered me a lot that zandalar looked nice but it just made no sense. This amazing jewel of the empire didn’t have a single neighborhood. Just a bunch of shrines

Hot take but I think Zandalar and Kul Tiras should’ve been their own expansions

[deep pawn]

They just force the other tribes to send them food

[tulip sun]

While I doubt it'd just happen like that, they have been building up its decline and people coming to azeroth

[deep pawn]

indeed, but maybe that explains allied Naga. 😄 Abandoned there after Vashj's death or stuff

The dragons have already moved to Azeroth

11.2 spec guides are out as a little treat.

[novel zodiac]

i wish there was a a place to see all the "leaks", im too lazy to scavenge all the threads of mmoc

we're nearly 2 weeks away from the reveal and there isnt any single believable "leak" like the really good ones we got for TWW

[upper pasture]

that's likely because blizzard has gotten infront of them for atleast the next two expansions, can't be making some wild ass theory when we already know where the expansion takes place

probably kills the fun for some people who make up the leaks

[novel zodiac]

i mean, all we know of midnight is where it takes place, the name and that it brings housing

there's still stuff you can make up

[upper pasture]

Yeah but to someone who wants to make up a big lie about it having where it takes place and the name of the expansion means less they can make up and there for not as much fun as some of the previous leaks

[deep pawn]

The preorder bonuses are probably the only legit leak so far

[novel zodiac]

something about a raptor mount?

[deep pawn]

Nah, another discord revealed them to be Dragonhawks

Raptor was just a guess off height

It means a new model though

It's the same mount in 3 forms, light, void, and one that shifts between the two

[novel zodiac]

booo

dragonhawks are hedious

[deep pawn]

I'm willing to see what these look like

[upper pasture]

It’s gonna be a new model tho

[deep pawn]

The most controversial will be housing early access which anyone should have seen coming though

[upper pasture]

I’m glad we’re gonna get an updated dragonhawk besides the one from SoD

Naw the people will complain again about the deluxe 3 day head start again

[deep pawn]

Housing early access might be weeks or months

[novel zodiac]

i really hope that housing is not the only new system

[upper pasture]

Yeah but there’s no real player power there

[novel zodiac]

and that they delete hero talents

[deep pawn]

Prime spots in the earliest neighborhoods though

Hero talents are staying at least through TLT

[upper pasture]

It’s just build your house, people won’t care about that. Eh if people care that much about where their house goes they should consider buying the access lol

They probably have enough time to farm gold if they really don’t want to spend the money

[deep pawn]

There will be some sort of levelling based power system but who knows if it's extended hero trees or a new system

I've earned enough gold for 5 months of sub time on classic. I'm set

[novel zodiac]

i have 10 tokens in my account since the start of s2

so im good too

[upper pasture]

i think i can buy about 15 tokens rn, so i suppose i'm fine.

i think it takes 23 tokens to fill up your bnet balance, which i'd like to get back to

[novel zodiac]

my goal for midnight is to make at least 20m gold

i made like 10 in TWW

[zealous sedge]

question guys is gear upgrade tacks for hero and myth going back to 1/6 for season 3?

[upper pasture]

it should be, it was only 1/8 cause of the turbo event

[zealous sedge]

I thought so as well

[novel zodiac]

i think so too

they said that turbo might come back for s3

[zealous sedge]

Trying to decide if I want to switch classes for season 3 or just wait for midnight. Shadow priest just doesn't feel great even with the changes I tried out in PTR

[novel zodiac]

so it should be 1/6 until then

[zealous sedge]

thats if we get another turbo boost type event

hopefully we do

[upper pasture]

"void-infused" event. "get stronger by impowering your gear with the void, all hero and myth track items can now be upgraded to x/8!"

[zealous sedge]

yeah that could be cool instead of a dinar type system

more like power infusions

[upper pasture]

honestly i bet they do another event like turbo charged, it was probably good for all the metrics

[novel zodiac]

yeah, i bet it kept people playing for like one more month or two

[zealous sedge]

And then we get remix

or maybe at the same time

im sure it might overlap regardless

[novel zodiac]

it already does anyway

MOP classic its less than 1 month old and 11.2 releases in 2 days lmao

[upper pasture]

one could argue that classic and retail overlapping isn't the same as events in retail alone overlapping. i just hope we never get timegated events like 11.1.5 was

[ember blaze]

if the pre order bonuses have been datamined,

does that mean no other features then? like new classes/race

cause those would normally be in it wouldnt they

[upper pasture]

This is what “leaked” but we don’t have any real confirmation

[dense plover]

yeah - its still an unknown

might be BS

sounds reasonable tho

we will know in a few weeks

[pulsar minnow]

Ngl this leak feels fishy to me. Having a mount just be called “Light Dragonhawk” doesn’t sit right (unless they don’t have the actual specifics and it’s just “light_dragonhawk” or something

[uncut vault]

The main reason it's believable to me is because it's such a mundane thing to leak

Who really cares about the preorder bonuses for an xpac we already know the premise of lol

[upper pasture]

oh for sure i think it's real but i don't think this is the extent of what is coming

[ember blaze]

when it shows new classes/races

[uncut vault]

Most notable thing is the fact that it's got housing items

[ember blaze]

or lack of em

[uncut vault]

And the fact there's three separate mounts is such a specific "Blizzard learned their lesson from the Warden trading post set" that I have a hard time seeing someone thinking of for a fake leak

[upper pasture]

who's to say there wont be new class and race combos coming at launch and not as a preorder bonus

or we're getting something before like in 11.2.X and not tied to preordering, if the void DH this truly leads to a 3rd spec and more races we could possible see them being added beforehand or unrelated to preordering

either way we have just a little over two weeks until we get some light as to what midnight is bringing and possible housing news and hopefully some 11.2.5/11.2.7 news too

and we will hopefully be post RFW too

[dense plover]

IF theyre going to do more races for classes, theyll come with Legion Remix

doing them after sucks

people complained about that in MoP remix

[rain cave]

would be cool, especially since if they want to setup things like void elf paladins/DH's it makes more sense to canonically have them before midnight so we don't suddenly get a bunch of NPC's representing them out of nowhere

like it existed in the world for a bit before midnight as well

honestly I feel they could do a timeskip with midnight as well

nota huge one

but it depends on the finale cinematic in 11.2

[glass flicker]

Honestly? I'm surprised we didn't get panda heritage armor during MoP Remix.

Not even with MoP Classic releasing.

C'mon Blizzy, get it together.

[rain cave]

I'd guess they wouldn't want one to distract from the other

because keep in mind heritage armour was a QoL issue raised in mop remix

I had to wait for the event to end to go get all the heritage armours, since remix toons couldn't do those quests

[warm topaz]

wonder if we'll get panda heritage armor before WSS ends lol

[rain cave]

what races are left?

[warm topaz]

panda

🙂

and dracthyr but yeah

[rain cave]

damn we only have pandas left?

feels weird since a lot of the older heritage armours are just different vibes wise

like goblin/worgen

[glass flicker]

Well, I would like variations of the heritage armors for all races. How come humans and orcs get three but dwarves only get a Bronzebeard set?

How come there's a recolor of the Worgen one already in the game files but it's unavailable to players? Hell, they even recolored the Castle Nathria leather jacket to fit with it.

[rain cave]

I feel like they should experiment with some cosmetic sets having colour customisation like dragonriding/customisable mounds

if they tagged on some other customisation it could be fun

[glass flicker]

We already have that with the Warden set from the Trading Post, in a sense. An armor with a day-night cycle.

[rain cave]

like imagine if we could collect a legendary armour set but it was customisable

[glass flicker]

If they can do that, they can absolutely add a dye system for certain items.

[rain cave]

so if you did a bunch of M+, you get customisations equal to that seasons M+ theme

or the raid, same thing

[glass flicker]

So yes, I agree with you.

[rain cave]

or if you do PvP, etc

[glass flicker]

Hell, wasn't that Chihuahua pet a test for adding pet customization?

You can give it hats.

One of the hats makes it look like a Teletubby and I can't unsee it.

[hard axle]

Two questions,
One, is there a "Void Levitate" mod item coming for Priest's Levitate in this patch, or, looking like the more likely time is Midnight?
Two, is there a way to completely turn off the Void Glow effect of Shadowform? Besides turning off Shadowform I mean?
EDIT: To be sure, I know about the Glyph to Minimize the effects, but I want to completely remove it

[deep pawn]

No to the second

Shadowform is considered vital for pvp clarity

[hard axle]

thank you

[plain violet]

No for the first item too, no glyph coming this patch.

[hard axle]

damn it, thanks

[novel zodiac]

if they ever make one for dracthyrs, i hope they make one color for each flight and made it wearable in dragon form lol

[deep pawn]

Or at least let it unlock extra barbershop options

[novel zodiac]

the most customizable race in the game and you want more?

bruh

[deep pawn]

Given those customizations are in place of armor? Absolutely

[deep pawn]

Surprise late build on the ptr

[pulsar minnow]

They’re customizable sure but you can’t see half your armor anyways

A heritage armor for Dracthyr that’s just shoulders and a belt isn’t much of a heritage armor set

[zealous sedge]

It’s the twist ending to the raid no one knows about /j

[austere gazelle]

Do we knew what key level we will have by default in two weeks ?

[austere gazelle]

( in our vault )

[zealous sedge]

Everyone starts at +2

[little hound]

Blizzard..

You can't put THIS In a Launch Trailer FFS HUGE Spoiler.

Guess Death Predictions were accurate.

Damnit, Blizz. Y u gotta spoil raid ending in the launch trailer. Welp, lots of the theories seems to have been correct though.

[tulip sun]

I mean, they weren't predictions tbf. We had actual dialogue and stuff

Is that the ||Void walker death?||

[dense plover]

that doesnt look like the raid ending

that looks like the missing cutscene from early in the campaign

[little hound]

Its literally on the dimensius platform.

Same surroundings.

[dense plover]

ok if you think so - guess we will see soon

but also she isnt going to die

she is too important for next expac

[little hound]

She isn't. No.

Xal will escape.

[dense plover]

duh?

[little hound]

Locus Walker will die.

[dense plover]

also duh

gotta be some kind of consequence

cant be the too characters we actually need

who can die? locus walker

[little hound]

At the end of the trailer, you see him grabbing the Dark Heart, and it Dims. Xal probably pops out of it, kills him, takes it and just poofs into smoke and away until Midnight.

I'm surprised how Irrelevant Magister Umbric has been since we got Void Elves, glad to see him on K'aresh, and hope he gets a bigger role in Midnight.

[tulip sun]

Oof why did I call locus walker void walker

[little hound]

They both walkin'.

[tulip sun]

Yeah we have lost a character or in the case of launch- a city, each patch.

Kinda like it. This saga has stakrs

Stakes

[little hound]

Maybe Xal'atath gets shoes next patch.

[little hound]

Ngl, with a universal threat and dangers like these, i wouldn't mind if more lore characters died off, we'll see in Midnight & Last Titan, but once the Worldsoul Saga is over? We'll probably have less characters we know, and more new faces.

(Please, kill Faerin..Smh)

[little hound]

Same clamps that are on Dimensius's platform

[little hound]

Same platform, again.

Same clamps.

[pulsar minnow]

I’m already in love with the Dimensius fight

[little hound]

Skyriding part looks awesome.

[pulsar minnow]

You’re dodging orbital lasers

[little hound]

Aah, there's the little Dalaran Platform too.

Woulda been cool if it was Krasus's Landing 😄

[pulsar minnow]

I hope we get a little bit more of a tease at the end of the raid

Similar to what we got in undermine

Maybe a quick cut to a dark storm forming above Quel Thalas or something

[little hound]

I suspect we'll get that in 11.2.7, as it will give us more story, and 11.2.7 is the last patch before Midnight. So i'm suspecting the story we'll get in 11.2.7 is also the Pre-Patch.

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah

But the expansions already gonna be announced by then

It won’t be a tease

[little hound]

I think the biggest midnight peek we'll get is during Gamescom.

And its just 2 weeks until, so yeah

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah? They’re announcing it there

[little hound]

Really?

Yes, i know.

[pulsar minnow]

I know you know

Im just saying I want one of those shots to keep us hyped for the announcement

Like an Argus in the sky

Or the shot we got of K’aresh at the end of 11.1

[little hound]

A permanent Skybox would be awesome, that's for sure.

[warm topaz]

at least 3 cinematics that we haven't seen yet

the one with Locus Walker and Ven'ari, the one with Phase-Thief Azir and that one with Alleria and Xal

[deep pawn]

And probably one with Locus Walker and Xal unless you consider that the Alleria one

[little hound]

I suspect that might be the same one.

[ember blaze]

where is this from 🤔

[pulsar minnow]

The Dimensius fight. You can see it in the launch trailer

[pulsar minnow]

There doesn’t seem much locus Walker left

[little hound]

Bit of toilet paper here, bit over there..

[pulsar minnow]

You think she flushed him

[little hound]

More like she combusted his booty.

[deep pawn]

I just wanna see it happen. 100k+ years of existence, possibly older than a Titan, and dying from something you arguably caused

[little hound]

"Ah yes, here it is, the consequences of my bullshit." BOOM

I like in the trailer that once Locus Walker grabs the Dark Heart, it dims nearly instantly, as if it will detonate the moment he touches it.

[deep pawn]

If I get to kill Umbric next expansion I'll be so happy

[little hound]

What? Why? He's a good lad.

[pulsar minnow]

Might need a correction here, does Xal Atath become a void lord at the end of the raid or by reclaiming the dark heart she has the mechanism to ascend?

[deep pawn]

He's probably the closest thing to evil in the Alliance lol

[little hound]

Nobody knows but the trailer just shows her "Poof" away with the DArk Heart in hand, and Alleria failing, again.

[pulsar minnow]

Some stuff was datamined before about this

[little hound]

If we get a teaser afterwards or not? Remaisn to be seen.

[deep pawn]

All we know from datamining is that Xal claims the title of All-Devouring

[little hound]

We'll probably get a cinematic and more lore in the War Within Epilogue, after the raid.

[pulsar minnow]

I thought Alleria swore an oath to kill Xal Atath and stop her ascension

I just can’t remember what was said there fully

[deep pawn]

She does, but it sounds like Xal has the tool she needs right now and based on Midnight we know she likely fails to stop her

[little hound]

What did they say on the Worldsoul Saga reveal again..? That at the end of the WAr Within, we think everything goes according to plan, but of course, it spirals out of hand, which leads to Midnight.

[pulsar minnow]

I think Metzen said that referring to the last Titan

Things get so bad the titans have to return

[deep pawn]

Nah, it's Midnight where we win but at a cost

[little hound]

Aah, alright.

[deep pawn]

Whatever we do to win in Midnight makes the Titans mad

[little hound]

I swear the Titans have force-altered Illidan with Order Magic, no way Aman'thul would keep him there otherwise, just like they tried to do with the Dragonflights during the War of the Scaleborn.

[pulsar minnow]

For sure

[little hound]

I think Odyn might have snitched on us, after getting out of the Ice that vyranoth froze his sorry ass in 😄

[pulsar minnow]

I can see Illidan fully sacrificing himself at the end of TLT

[little hound]

I have my doubts, Illidan has already sacrificed SO Damn much ever since WC3, but its a possibility.

[pulsar minnow]

He is his scars

[little hound]

...

[pulsar minnow]

Plays my chemical romance or smth and flies aman thul into the sun

[little hound]

I am so glad he popped that sanctimonious crystal chandelier into pieces.

[deep pawn]

He'll become the Avatar of Sargeras but for good reasons

[pulsar minnow]

Praying for a Sargeras redemption arc

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/illidan-smug-world-of-warcraft-smirk-gif-9564678

[lavish raptor]

SO LONG AND GOOD NIGHT

[deep pawn]

Xe'ra has a decent chance at being a raid boss in Midnight

[little hound]

...

[lavish raptor]

she became confetti tho

[little hound]

Xe'ra is in bits and pieces, and entirely annihilated.

Parts of her even got shoved into the Netherlight Crucible as a temprary upgrade system

[deep pawn]

Unless you believe her essence was fel consumed she either went back to the light realm or an alternate exists of her

[pulsar minnow]

My long shot hope for the ending of midnight is Beledar ends up being some kind of prison/escape pod of a Lightlord, and by freeing them we’re able to push back the void.

Blah blah titans lied and imprisoned him there or whatever so now that he’s free they’re back and mad. I really just wanna see a lightlord and have Beledar get some real importance in the story

[lavish raptor]

They should make that Naaru trapped in Revendreth relevant

[deep pawn]

Cause Xe'ra is almost certainly Y'rel's Divine Mother.

[little hound]

There are still many loose ends, Denathrius amongst them.

[lavish raptor]

Oh right I guess there's Alternate Timeline Draenor

[little hound]

I'm not holding out hope that we'll see anymore of the Alternate Draenor really.

[deep pawn]

Watch Xe'ra have a grudge against Alleria

[lavish raptor]

I think it'd be funny AF if Alternate Xe'ra decided to become a plot point

[little hound]

Xe'ra had a grudge against ANYONE That wasn't 100% Light Fanatic.

[deep pawn]

Xe'ra did make a prophecy that if Alleria embraces the void she would lose Silvermoon

[little hound]

Where ?

[deep pawn]

1000 years of war.

[little hound]

The Thousand Year War is a references to their time in the Dark Beyond, fighting the Burning Legion.

And the Army of the Light.

[deep pawn]

Yes, during the time when Alleria met Locus Walker and began her void training

Remember Argus starts with Alleria in a jail cell

[little hound]

You realise all that lore is filled up in a book, right?

The Thousand Year War ended on Argus, with the Legions' defeat.

Or was it a short story.

[deep pawn]

Yes? What do you think I'm referencing when I mention something Xe'ra says to Alleria

[lavish raptor]

When will WoW have Narco-Pentecostals. Yrel sells cocaine plot point when

[little hound]

Yrel is a preaching meme.

[lavish raptor]

That's why she needs to sell crack

[little hound]

I think honestly my biggest Hype for Midnight so far, is housing.

A place to spend time, build, decorate and just chill outside of M+ and Raid Hours.

I'm not really a Sims Player, but i've always wanted a good game to have any chance of decorating and renovating a house.

Stoked to see what the Housing Demo on Gamescom and people's feedback of it shows.

[pulsar minnow]

I might be a psychopath but I barely care at all for housing. Maybe I’ll warm up to it

[deep pawn]

You can open the Thousand Year War pdf, search Silvermoon and see Xe'ra's warning

[little hound]

I wonder how many other "Prime Naaru" Exist, Xe'ra was the only one shown so far in any form of lore, no ?

[deep pawn]

She was implied to be the first Naaru

[harsh mason]

For those who don't know that Xal will kill him, these frames don't make any sense at all. The cut is specifically made with frames with Azir

So I don't see the problem.

[little hound]

Maybe, or maybe not. Everyone has their own tastes. I just feel like.. My current drive is Mount Farming, M+ and Raiding, and i'm just happy to have something else.

[terse flint]

I didn't like the warning, light and shadow can and does exist together

can't have one without the other

[little hound]

Who said there were any problems?

[little hound]

There are many elements that balance eachother in the WoW Universe. Death & Life. Shadow & Light. Birth and Rebirth. And so on.

But then again, Xe'ra saying both can't exist is just her being a light fanatic, denying ANY Sort of path besides the light.

While the Void is open to ALL Paths leading somewhere.

[terse flint]

Yeah here is the quote:

“Understand this well, Alleria Windrunner. The Light does not treat with the Void. There is no alliance to be made with the Shadow.… That war began before time itself. Make no mistake, Alleria: if you pursue contact with the Void, your destiny will fall into ruin. You will lose Turalyon. You will lose Arator. You will lose Silvermoon, Azeroth, and everything else you hold dear. The Light and the Shadow cannot exist together.”

makes light sound like the bad guy in a way

[little hound]

Yeah, Light is very ONe-Sided: You either follow the Light, or you forsake everything.
While the Void: Oh sure, do whatever you want, you'll get somewhere regardless the path, just try not to go insane 😄

[terse flint]

I'm convinced the last titan will have the pantheon as the bad guys. If you notice the last titan logo is the same stasis field that they put the proto dragons in in dragon isles

[little hound]

I'm..somewhat for it, but i doubt it for one reason.

[terse flint]

look they are exactly the same

I think azeroths world soul is held in stasis by titans

[little hound]

Eonar: She wanted to give Azeroth life, Aman'thul got mad and said "FUCK YOU." Then tore it out.

He might be their "Leader" as a Pantheon, but i assure you, not all of them approve of him.

[little hound]

Yeah there is speak of this when you do those weekly disc fragments you give to Dagran.

I forgot what htey called it, but they built a "Cage" around the Worldsoul, trapping it for study as they think Azeroth is the "Prime Worldsoul".

[terse flint]

I'm gonna punch amanthul in the lip

[little hound]

Which caused Azeroth to infuse some EArthen into Thraegar (Like Magni, Crystaline) and fight against the Titans, hoping to fend them off and release the World Soul.

[upper pasture]

i think you mean "in the toe"

[terse flint]

he will feel the might of my tiny hands

[pulsar minnow]

Most likely

The earthen themselves never understood the purpose of the coreway

[little hound]

Not that they ever had any free will.

[pulsar minnow]

The keepers may claim it was to study the world soul but it’s unlikely they even knew themselves

[little hound]

Their assigned Keepers abused them, and even destroyed them upon questioning or disobedience.

[terse flint]

yeah they said Midnight was THE void expansion, afterwards whats left

[pulsar minnow]

And light expansion

They under market that part a lot

And again- we’ve been told TLT is the story of a cosmic conspiracy

[little hound]

I'm suspecting that Midnight will have what the Arathi predict to be called: "Renilash". The last battle between Dark and Light.

[terse flint]

I can't wait until they bring the arathi empire into the fold, that will be really cool

[little hound]

The prophecy also described the skies being filled with scales of many colors, also hinting at the Dragonflights being involved.

[pulsar minnow]

Oh it’s already confirmed that Renilash is happening in midnight

[little hound]

Arathi, Dragonflights, Elven Tribes and Kingdoms uniting.

[terse flint]

You all think wow will continue after last titan? I feel like it will, but I have a friend that's convinced they'll release a WoW 2

sounds ridiculous to me lol

[little hound]

I mean even now, Wrathion and his Blacktalon Agents are out there, watching and hunting Iridikron, as he said at the end of DF.

[upper pasture]

WoW will continue

[little hound]

I feel like a Chapter will close after 20 years, but it won't be "WoW 2." Probably just announce a whole new saga or massive project with it.l

[terse flint]

yeah a new saga most likely

[pulsar minnow]

My feeling is that Azeroth might awaken or whatever happens at the end of the last Titan will result in a world shaking event, the storming sea being cleared, and the old world of Azeroth being shifted around and misplaced resulting in a world revamp. Then we kinda start anew again. Not a new game but a new world

[terse flint]

that would be a good thing for sure

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna make some people cringe but think of it like Fortnite. They have their seasons and chapters. The world soul saga is like 3 seasons and the end brings with it a new chapter

New world, same mechanics and gameplay pillars. And maybe dialing some stuff back

[little hound]

I honestly hope Azeroth decides to stay asleep, otherwise our Planet will erupt

[little hound]

Okay how dare you.

[pulsar minnow]

Oh dw I play a ton

But I know some aren’t fond of it

[little hound]

Haha i do too, i'll give next season a go too. Halo Season, awesome. Power Rangers collab? Yes.

[pulsar minnow]

Funny enough we don’t even know if this is true anymore. Since we’ve now been told titans are unreliable narrators

[terse flint]

it would keep it fresh, I'd be down

plus if it blows we have classic to fall back on

[little hound]

I respect that alot of people are fond of Classic, but honestly i can't feel an ounce of nostalgia for it.

[pulsar minnow]

We’ll probably have Legion Classic by then

So yeah if it flops I’m all in on legion again, works out for me either way

[terse flint]

Tell you what though, those remixes are amazing

[little hound]

Classic imo ends with WoD. New char models and shit just marked the end of Classic for me.

[little hound]

Y-yes..

[deep pawn]

And here I want classic plus to use the modern models

[pulsar minnow]

seems like the catalyst has a bug

catalyzing s2 gear still requires Essence of Kajamite

[zealous sedge]

https://tenor.com/view/so-it-begins-raining-rainy-day-théoden-lord-of-the-rings-gif-16521230

[upper pasture]

iirc they keep it that way for a bit to stop people from getting "free" tier gear

[zealous sedge]

Just kidding I don’t think new catalyst works until season start

You can still get those s2 mogs!

[upper pasture]

yeah later in s3

[zealous sedge]

Might run undermine again I just need that belt for the mythic set

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but they’re limited right now

Like for example in my warrior I had collected the entire full set of upgraded hero gear to catalyze. I was only able to catalyze one piece

[lone mantle]

https://youtu.be/mqadPAocH78

[deep pawn]

Servers up early?

I knew it when I picked up a later shift at work lol

[ember blaze]

is this an npc or a player 🤔

[warm topaz]

what we think?

Dragonhawk model updated so im hype

[dreamy dove]

I think they just convinced me to buy it even if we basically know nothing AHAHAHAHAHA

[autumn dagger]

player with ethereal glamour?

[little hound]

I’m buying epic edition. Why?
Cosmetics. And i’m poor on Tenders 😂. And i want housing.

[dense plover]

my leak was legit it seems

nice

@deep pawn no raptor

[deep pawn]

Raptor was always a guess, this means new Dragonhawk model

Besides Marlamin and others had already said this source was trusted

Also, housing early access was the easiest call ever

Blizzard q4 bonuses gonna go brrrr

[deep pawn]

So what housing item do you think we'll get for the Suramar meta on a timerunner

[warm topaz]

you get Nighthold as a housing place :))

[deep pawn]

I'd enjoy maybe an arcwine table

[lavish raptor]

Can I have the angry robot we fight as the third boss

I want his awful vibe in my living room

[dense plover]

i wasnt sure if they were memeing tbh

that discord is very meme heavy

[dense plover]

i assume eventually all of the doodads they use for npc housing/decos will eventually be available

i assume a lot of them will be in at launch

the thing i dont expect a ton of is interiors and exteriors

[deep pawn]

He said it in the mmoc forums. He doesn't meme much there

[dense plover]

my guess is 1-2 orc ones, a few blood elf ones, a few forsaken ones, and maybe a tauren or troll one

interiors i expect to be pretty universal and standard for now

we still havent seen gameplay of it beyond screenshots

i assume we will get some part of a deep dive at gamescom if not a dedicated panel

[deep pawn]

We saw a couple gifs

[dense plover]

sure but i mean extended gameplay with greater options

[deep pawn]

But I knew housing early access was a thing the moment they showed that legion class hall screenshot

[dense plover]

oh that was a given

its in every preorder edition

[deep pawn]

Eh? Did I misread I thought it was epic only

[dense plover]

literally just in the screenshot from #latest-news

but every edition has housing early access

[deep pawn]

Oh nice

[dense plover]

the intention is that people who arent buying the next expac have to wait

[deep pawn]

Glad they aren't extorting for it

I think the original leak had it as epic then

The suspicious side of me thinks Blizzard leaks stuff like this on purpose for hype

[dense plover]

nope

original had every version having housing access

#beta-ptr-spoilers message

[deep pawn]

My last question for now is whether Void Hunter is 11.2.5 or 11.2.7 for remxi

[dense plover]

we still do not know if we are getting another spec - there is still no data supporting this. we will know once 11.2.5 gets on ptr

i still think theyre just going to add new races for DH and people will be upset

adding a new spec before remix would be dumb since they wouldnt have a weapon or spec story

[deep pawn]

No data, but Blizzard hasn't gone "that'd be cool no?" this hard in a long time.

The stuff they're saying in interviews is very similar to what they said about support in 10.1 interviews when they said they had nothing to announce

[deep pawn]

They're already likely having to make weapons and a barebones campaign for Evokers

Just slap the Void Hunter into the same questline as Havoc if it's an issue

I think they wait for Remix because the feedback was Aug came too early into DF s2 when lots were still progging

Ptr should be up like next Thursday

[dense plover]

or they just might not let evokers do it

they do need a long term solution for leveling through legion for specs/classes that didnt exist back then though

otherwise they cant keep adding classes and expect timewalking to work properly

[deep pawn]

Nah, there's lots of speculations about the unused weapons like the Nozdormu scythe and the used once in a cutscene Deathwing weapon

I can't see them just excluding a whole class

Just make their order hall the Timeways

Just make a portal to each Legion zone

[clear apex]

My soul hurts everytime someone says the survey from last year wasn't real just bc it was in German but i got it in my email

[deep pawn]

Just now?

[clear apex]

In English*
No i got it last year and even asked about it in here

There was another one last month but i missed out

Guess it filled up

[deep pawn]

Sadly only the German site posted any screenshots

[clear apex]

I have some

Not of all of it but must

Most*

[ember blaze]

tali is still calling it definitely fake

[clear apex]

Yup

I mean if it gets added that's one thing but the survey wasn't fake

[deep pawn]

Post them in the mmoc thread then. Most of the haters are because the website took it all down when their licenses or something expired

[ember blaze]

which is still funny when he still praises the song of azeroth concept

and its something that makes way too much sense for a random ass leaker to make on their own lol

[clear apex]

Yeah some classes sounded silly but some would be really cool

[ember blaze]

i think its too easy to get caught up on how "those classes already exist"

when you can still explore concepts with those same ideas

[clear apex]

Id send him my discord chat about it but I've zero way to get ahold of him

[ember blaze]

"we already have holy magic" meanwhile theres 5 specs that use it in two separate classes

[deep pawn]

I mean I absolutely posted in the mmoc threads referencing you before the German article came out

[clear apex]

And my chats were posted before he ever made a video in it

So i had no idea the German one existed

Oh nice lol

[deep pawn]

Not by name, but that I heard of the survey before the German site

[ember blaze]

you could send a message during his livestream lol

and tell him u got proof

[clear apex]

I've posted to his YouTube before, im usually asleep when he's streaming

[ember blaze]

cause so far we only got the german stuff to go for

[deep pawn]

And others think the German screenshots don't match previous survey backgrounds

[ember blaze]

yeah stream is the most reliable one to get him to see sadly

idk if they got a discord 🤔

or maybe twitter 💀

[clear apex]

i don't have Twitter rip

[ember blaze]

sometimes he streams for a while tho, like big announcements

[clear apex]

Ah well, i know the truth and i guess he can be a bit of a clown and deny its existence lol
Guess i could post it anon sometime online

[ember blaze]

that or give it to a wowhead writer 🤔

[clear apex]

Yknow...

[ember blaze]

portergauge is active on here 👀

eithe way, cause of u im still very hopeful for bard coming

and makes me more excited about having other options that arent just aug

[clear apex]

Id love bard. Witch also sounded neat being death/ drust magic

[dense plover]

bard seems the most likely tbh - if they want augmentation to be able to be balanced, they need other supports

[clear apex]

*also my convos about the survey are 11 days before Taliesin made a video about it

[dense plover]

i wouldnt be surprised if they add "support" as a role or something

[deep pawn]

Titan Artificer Radiant Song Bard sounds very Blizzard

Like we have the Siren Isle hook too

[dense plover]

that sounds like a korean mmo class

[ember blaze]

yeah theyd have to if they ever revisit the state aug launched in

[deep pawn]

Like we've never had music directly inspire people in game before Siren's Isle

[ember blaze]

because when it released it was pretty much a support with those very strong externals

but now its just a regular dps

but community might be hesistent on increasing party size 🤔

[clear apex]

My only iffy thing about new classes and races is making the game feel bloated

They could combine some races to make it less cluttered (on the creator screen)

[ember blaze]

for races i agree

specially when they waste so much space on the exact same races

[dense plover]

would just mean 2 dps instead of 3

[clear apex]

Draenei with light forge, orcs with orcs, etc

[dense plover]

and hopefully them revisting some dps specs and making them support

[ember blaze]

theyre not gonna do that 💀

[clear apex]

Human with kul tiran (let you choose body thickness) and worgen

[ember blaze]

for classes i disagree

u cant stop introducing new playable options

[clear apex]

Oh i didn't mean combine classes

And you could

[ember blaze]

like league is reaching 200 champs

[clear apex]

Not every mmo has new classes every expac

[ember blaze]

but not releasing anything new to play would be bad for the game

[dense plover]

oh guaranteed we will get new classes ad infinitum

[dense plover]

every successful one does lol, every other typically

[ember blaze]

yeah but wow doesnt have a new calss every expac either 🤔

[dense plover]

ffxiv does races and classes every expac

[ember blaze]

thats crazy

[dense plover]

but they have a longer time between expacs

and their class design is boring

[ember blaze]

i hate the combat 💀

[dense plover]

(as im currently play ffxiv RIGHT now)

[clear apex]

Hrothgar were the last and all they did was finally add females, so that doesn't really count that's not apart of the new expac

[dense plover]

they just need to mix it up

[dense plover]

sure - you could argue they flip similar to wow does

where its new races then new classes then new races then new classes

[clear apex]

They made too many classes feel useless

[dense plover]

thats more them not understanding balance of their own game

they want everything to work the same

https://tenor.com/view/syndrome-incredibles-when-everyones-super-gif-10466529

[ember blaze]

i think players get some blame for that

[dense plover]

omega homogenized

japanese players maybe

[ember blaze]

"why am i not as tanky as DK" "why does x have a stun and I dont?"

[dense plover]

the NA and EU playerbase combined is larger but fully ignored

[ember blaze]

"where is my raid buff"

[dense plover]

they only read the japanese forums

[clear apex]

Sadly true

[dense plover]

its wildly racist

and truly insulting since the game would be dead without western players

they gave japan 2 new datacenters and meanwhile NA has to split one with EU or oceanic

[tulip sun]

Im not sure if there could potentially be endless new classes. Maybe im just not that creative though lol

New races i could see plenty of

[clear apex]

Cat people

[ember blaze]

would u dislike them exploring things that arent "wow"

[tulip sun]

Depends what that means?

[ember blaze]

like they could have done the typical musician bard, but instead theyre probably going with the wow themed around the world soul

but what if they had just done the musician

[clear apex]

I don't want radiant song bard

[ember blaze]

now i know how you answered the survey 😡

[clear apex]

Just make bard with the hero talent radiant bard

[ember blaze]

no

[clear apex]

Yes

[ember blaze]

hero talents are a very lazy way to explore themes

like druids have a nature themed tree, but its not like boomie is attacking people with a tree

or throwing bugs

https://tenor.com/view/malfurion-warcraft-wow-gif-4202439071863584184

[tulip sun]

Eh theres plenty of wow based classes that arnt playable

But some would overlap with others is the issue I see

[ember blaze]

like blademaster right

its just a shirtless warrior?

[tulip sun]

Yeah, or like necromancer, bard, tinker

[ember blaze]

okay this patch starting to feel too much like shadowlands

first kyrian constructs, now the vampires

[deep pawn]

Tazavesh still sells stuff the Shadowlands needs

[autumn dagger]

I mean until just about now, tazavesh was still wandering in the shadowlands in-between space

[deep pawn]

I am convinced Void Hunter is coming at Remix at the latest, and that TLT will be a Dagran created Artificer class.

Void Hunter will use placeholder hero trees until prepatch

Which that could just be 8-10 weeks apart

[ember blaze]

maybe it just gets 2 unique to itself

[worn crown]

I was sure it would.

And I love !

[zealous sedge]

Question y'all I started up my recently leveled alt and visited the renown vendor in Dornogal and I still had yet to gather the rewards for completing the renown track on my main. I just got dumped with tons of valor stones and weathered crests which didn't count towards the cap. Is that a bug?

[deep pawn]

Nope, that's normal

[zealous sedge]

okay cool

[deep pawn]

haha, finally watching the launch trailer, his wraps just smoldering around Alleria.

[pulsar minnow]

not sure if this has already been covered, but there's a phase conduit in Eco-Dome Al'dani, interacting with it opens up two unbound souls to interact with. No substantial dialogue with them yet, probably will become available after the raid

[rain cave]

Why until prepatch?

They'd probably just get hero talents to just and keep into next xpac

[deep pawn]

Cause if they're reworking Veng and Havoc hero trees to make the triangle, they wouldn't do that mid season

it'd be like Evokers and DH launching with generic tier/legendaries

[rain cave]

So you think we're getting more hero specs in midnight?

[deep pawn]

No? I just think DH needs a new one if its getting a new spec and then reworking it into the triangle

[rain cave]

Yeah, I just don't see why that couldn't be done when added

Like they could give them a base hero spec and one of the other ones

I do think they'll add new hero specs so each spec has 3 to access though

In midnight

[deep pawn]

They won't change existing specs that much mid season

it just won't happen

[rain cave]

In midnight

[deep pawn]

My point is if they're adding Void Hunter to Remix, that's not prepatch

so they need something placeholder for those 8 weeks

[rain cave]

Yeah I'm saying I think they'll add new hero specs to all classes in midnight

But the new spec would launch with 1, maybe 2

A new one and an old one

[deep pawn]

no, expansion yes, they won't add hero trees to existing specs, DH is a special case where they have to fit a new tree into the existing paradigm

Either the new hero trees will be OP and the old ones thus USELESS, or some people just don't get a shiny new toy in Midnight

[rain cave]

Doomer mentality, they add new classes and people don't do that

Adding new hero specs is a great way to add new things to the game

And increase class fantasy

It's the cleanest way of doing stuff going forward imo

[deep pawn]

Okay? When has a new class stopped existing classes from getting new things for them? DKs? Everyone got 10 new talent points, Monks? Everyone had the new talent system and new abilities from 85-90.

Maybe if they add 10 new points to existing hero trees and 20 points for the new trees, maybe, but that's a lot of extra work when they can barely balance two hero trees per spec.

[rain cave]

And if everyone got more hero specs, everyone wins

[deep pawn]

No, say for example Warriors get slicer hero tree for all 3, if it's not the best then warrior may as well have gotten nothing?

[rain cave]

That implies a 3rd would have to be universally available

Which is an option

[upper pasture]

no? someone would enjoy "slicer" over the other hero trees, it's a win

[rain cave]

Also no

That means they get a strong third option

[deep pawn]

you realize how rarely people deviate from the guides?

[upper pasture]

those who aren't tied to the meta do it all the time

[deep pawn]

There's been maybe 2 or 3 specs all expansion that have gotten an actual choice in their hero tree pick.

Blizzard can't balance two, 3 would be impossible.

[rain cave]

But if we can't trust blizzard to add cool stuff because balance nothing would get made

[pulsar minnow]

Agreed. Really don’t think 3 hero trees per spec is gonna help anything

[deep pawn]

So I'm sorry, they'll either add 10 points to the existing hero trees or they'll have some entirely different system for Midnight

Horizontal Expansion just isn't for WoW

Go play some other game

[rain cave]

I like the idea of new specs shared between specs of other classes

[rain cave]

It can be.

[pulsar minnow]

And that’s fine but frankly I think they still need to flesh out the hero trees they already have

Which- might be the plan

[deep pawn]

I'd rather them not waste the time. The paradigm is pretty fine for right now.

[rain cave]

But yeah like, frost mage abs dk sharing a lich spec is cool

[deep pawn]

again, they can barely make a hero tree work for two roles of one class, you want to introduce them trying to balance two entirely different classes?

[rain cave]

Or arms and ww getting blade master

[rain cave]

Why do you insist they are barely able, when hero specs have been incredibly successful

[deep pawn]

In your opinion?

I think they've been hit and miss

[rain cave]

There isn't consistently one better

And they're really fun

[deep pawn]

Rogues have trash trees, Hunters are a fail if you aren't an elf.

[rain cave]

Visually and mechanically

[pulsar minnow]

They’ve been successful but not all trees are made the same. Ret Paladin has Herald of the Sun and Templar, but nobody has picked herald of the Sun since launch because 1, it’s not as good as Templar. And 2, it’s not as fun as Templar. Lots of them still have problems and throwing in an extra tree won’t make that any easier

[rain cave]

Then the same applies back to you, so you can't dismiss mine as if it's untrue

I want blizzard to do cool shit regardless of balance within reason

[rain cave]

Herald is cooler than templar imo

I don't like how templar is just hammers

Where my swords at

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but either way you’re going to find that in 99% of cases you’re gonna see ret paladins running Templar because all the builds are based around it, which really speaks to a larger issue of the game being so guide reliant in general but that’s not here nor there

[rain cave]

Have we got actual stats on usage though

[deep pawn]

Let's look at havoc DH, m+. 83.9% of keys tracked by archon are Aldrachi.

[rain cave]

That's keys

Not players

[deep pawn]

Templar is 99.1%

[rain cave]

Does that not count people multiple times though

So hard-core players increase their representation

[deep pawn]

covers 7-22s and most people don't do over 12s

[rain cave]

We need player stats though

Not key stats

[deep pawn]

Enhancement Shaman, arguably the spec last season that had a real choice? 86% of most keys still picked Stormbringer

Blizzard is never going to give you stats of every level 80 and what they play most often, so all we're going to have is parses.

At best so far you have one hero tree for raids, one hero tree for m+

[rain cave]

We should try ask them to give us some, even if its in a reflective post and not literally a graph

[deep pawn]

I don't think it matters cause I doubt you'll find the info of people who only do a world quest a day to be factored that much into Blizzard's decision making

[rain cave]

They matter a lot

Blizzard want to keep casuals engaged

[pulsar minnow]

Kinda? I mean they’re not playing the game at a level to where this stuff would even matter to them

[rain cave]

Exactly, balance isn't as important there

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but when you have this highly competitive mmorpg designing the game around the players who complete the least amount of the games content isn’t the best move

The aim should be to make the higher level stuff more engaging/enticing so that those ”casual” players actually dip their toes into higher level content

[deep pawn]

and those players probably won't even notice a third hero tree vs just 10 extra points

[rain cave]

Maybe

But also cool Fantasy might draw in more people

Whilst dedicated players will always cherry pick the best thing regardless

And keep playing

[deep pawn]

but those dedicated players still want something new too

Again, vertical will always win out for WoW

[rain cave]

But then what do they add?

[deep pawn]

It'll either be expansions to the existing hero trees, or some other new pseudo talent system

cause they still want to give you something for each level.

oh, I think I lost 3000 rep with the K'areshi trust but not unlocking it before earning rep

oh no

hah

[ember blaze]

wasnt that auto unlocked

i did 0 quests and still had it at 1 and turned in the weekly for 1500

[ember blaze]

this is such an uninformed take 💀

you got trees that are very behind throughput wise to the other that youd be trolling using it outside of a world quest

[deep pawn]

only if you did the start of Taz, I was doing other stuff first cause server issues lol

[austere gazelle]

nice, patch day, bugged quests

[ember blaze]

i hadnt

i talked to locus and he opened the portal and then i never went in

and it was 1

[ember blaze]

feeling like an expac launch...

[deep pawn]

weird, mine was locked until I stepped through

[ember blaze]

kinda concerning for a final season patch

cause by this time less overall ppl are playing right 🤔

so why are servers struggling

[deep pawn]

I'm gonna see if relogging works but otherwise I'm sad I'll have missed out on 3150 rep

nope, just 650/2500 in renown one, rip

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/dead-my-honest-reaction-damn-skull-skeleton-gif-15885937969029652188

and with darkmoon rep buff too

[deep pawn]

my fault for doing crap out of order

I swore in the past getting rep unlocked automatically

unless you don't start with 1 unlocked?

if I don't then maybe the math works out?

[ember blaze]

@deep pawni finished campaign and im renown 4 1.4k

[deep pawn]

I'll see where I land

sure sure

[ember blaze]

not subtle at all

[deep pawn]

indeed

well something randomly dismounted me

[austere gazelle]

I fell into water with my mount and its DC me as soon as I move in xD

[deep pawn]

holy cow he whined this line.

[deep pawn]

806 into renown 4 after unlocking the wraps, but I've done a few of the lore items

[austere gazelle]

interesting... you can be at war with the K'aresh Trust.. lol

[glass flicker]

Yeah, I feel like that's just bad direction. They made Locus-Walker a whiny child.

He's supposed to be cool and mysterious, but now he just seems like a secretive dork.

I did like Alleria saying she doesn't trust anyone anymore, though. We thought her crazy bish arc started and ended with wanting to hunt Xal'atath really badly, but it seems like it's just now starting.

[glass flicker]

I've been calling him "Locust-Walker" this entire patch.

[rain cave]

but then the same thing happens in your logic, one becomes better than the other

aso why bother adding at all?

[warm topaz]

i LOVE Tazavesh music

very unique

this expansion music has been great in general

[glass flicker]

Yeah, but I do think Dornogal needs a day/night music cycle.

Hearing the same bombastic theme at night is weird.

[austere gazelle]

Man this world boss is way undertuned

wtf is this healthpool

[warm topaz]

i tend to hate every main hub music at some point of the expansion

except for Dalaran maybe

Valdrakken was definitely the worst

[glass flicker]

Opposite. Overtuned.

[glass flicker]

I agree. For me personally, Valdrakken and Dornogal just get exhausting after being there for a hundred hours.

[rain cave]

so is the end of the campaign currently at the eco dome?

and we get reshi wraps next week?

[glass flicker]

We got wraps this week. 3 chapters.

[rain cave]

weird, I just did the whole helping venari thing and there's no more quests

[glass flicker]

Relog?

[rain cave]

a quest has magically appeared in my quest log somehow

despite earlier it saying "wait for your allies to regroup against the shadowguard" or something

how strange

[warm topaz]

well, they regroup against the shadowguard and the quest appeared

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1043960900396265593/1050403423050289192/ezgif-1-87bfcb0fbc.gif

[rain cave]

yeah just never seen them do a "wait 20 minutes before you can start the next quest" thing lmao

there was no indication, it just appeared in my journal later lmao

also i've noticed something funny

all the kareshi call locus walker, locus walker. Instead of his actual name

despite my interpretation being that he changed his name partially because he didn't want to be tracked down by some of the old kareshi people I assume?

like the shadowguard

[rain cave]

wait so we just get the reshii wraps as a quest reward? there's no cinematic or quest where they're crafted?

that's a bit anticlimactic

[austere gazelle]

maybe you had the " bug " , where you take the quest, it doesnt appears anywhere and you cant take it at the npc, and after delog, reloging you have the quest magically in your journal or some shit like this

[deep pawn]

I probably should have reported it but I found one typo in a lore item and then one quest object had inconsistent capitalization.

[pulsar minnow]

This.

What made Zandalar and Kul Tiras music tolerable is that they actually kept adding more tracks over the course of the expansion

There was city of gold, Zuldazar ambient, the zandalari troll racial music, etc…

[warm topaz]

do we know for who Ky'veza working for?

[zealous sedge]

I’m not sure. I thought she was shadow guard? I’m curious if she actually dies or submits when we defeat her in her delve.

Also can I just say I feel like if Silvermoon isn’t capital city for Midnight (I’d be bummed if it isn’t) it might Tazavesh

[lavish raptor]

I think she die dies

Based off the people who have killed her

[ember blaze]

then she shows up next expac again, "that was just another clone"

[warm topaz]

she vanish

but maybe it was a clon, who knows

[lavish raptor]

Could go either way - Brann specifically says it might be a clone lol

[deep pawn]

the new delve story today is very fast

easily the new "sidestreet"

[warm topaz]

it actually makes no sense that we kill her, we needed a full raid group to kill her clone

[zealous sedge]

Nice I hope delves stick with that sort of timing. Some of the OG are a bit too long. The underwater ones come to mind

[zealous sedge]

I agree

[lavish raptor]

We didn't even kill her clone in the raid

She just peaced out iirc

[zealous sedge]

Yeah she was like "good fight, see ya around"

Man I can't wait for raid next week

[deep pawn]

I'm ambivalent on the raid, the setting just isn't doing it for me lol.

[pulsar minnow]

the dimensius fight looks absolutely insane

[lavish raptor]

People are either like "WOW THIS ZONE IS AMAZING" or totally iffy lol

It's supposed to be a barren destroyed wasteland so I can only complain so much

[zealous sedge]

I'm actually more mixed on K'aresh itself. I did some raid testing during PTR and I liked the manaforge aesthetic much more. Feels like we're back to Tempest Keep in a way.

[zealous sedge]

I can't wait

[pulsar minnow]

This patch definitely is starting to feel more like a "World Soul Saga" and the Metzen influence is for sure starting to sink in

[deep pawn]

that's exactly why the hell I didn't want this to be a patch zone

[zealous sedge]

But we've only really seen some minor clips we have no idea what's gonna happen. I'm imagining it's sort of gonna be like T-swift from Amirdrassil.

[deep pawn]

It's exactly what I thought it'd be haha

Argus but more broken

[lavish raptor]

It's just Arg

[zealous sedge]

Yeah Argus had so much lead up and when we got there it really was like "woah". Like we've been battling the burning legion since forever. With K'aresh we've known about it since TBC but we weren't being attacked by the void all the time.

So K'aresh feels a teeny bit out of place imo

Not in a bad way

[lavish raptor]

I like ethereals and brokers so that is a scratched itch but so far I feel like it's less immersive than Undermine - I might just need to do more in the patch itself

[pulsar minnow]

Tbh I feel the opposite in terms of immersion

Granted that might just be because the story is much more serious and connected to the world soul saga as a whole

[lavish raptor]

I like the story so far, but I feel like I'll be using the flight paths heavily

[zealous sedge]

Yeah I think that goes back to your point that Metzen's storytelling is really starting to come through in this patch. It's very evident and I haven't even finished the first 3 chapters yet

[pulsar minnow]

I think my favorite thing is that previously unknown things actually have satisfying payoffs

Like the mystery of how the Ethereals became Ethereals. It wasn’t the explosion, it was the arcane wasting (tying stuff back to Suramar as well, and setting up stuff in midnight)

But then we have stuff like Beledar

Giant holy crystal in the ceiling… the payoff? It’s a scab.

[zealous sedge]

haha has that been confirmed?

I don't remember that

[pulsar minnow]

The Titan disc quests covered Beledar

[zealous sedge]

oh thats right

[pulsar minnow]

Apparently it’s one of many under Azeroth, and it’s just calcified world soul essence

[zealous sedge]

I mean that this is pretty sick ngl

[pulsar minnow]

That said- I feel like it will have a bigger part to play but they’re saving it for TWW

[deep pawn]

Dagran asks if it was Beledar, Brinthe says "We don't know, we never checked."

[pulsar minnow]

The quest literally showed a giant hologram of Beledar

[uncut vault]

Beledar still has mystery tbf, we have no idea why it was holy infused, or why Sargeras' strike caused to start shifting

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah, and as I said it’s most likely being saved for TLT along with the rootlands

[deep pawn]

They better cause if TLT doesn't finish the 11.0 threads I will be so mad.

[dense plover]

we are missing beledar stuff and the haronir stuff

i HOPE they come back to it

if they dont im gonna be pissed

[deep pawn]

3 delves to upgrade cloak to the next rank isn't that bad

[glass flicker]

I hope they stop calling places "thing-lands" already.

Shadowlands. Rootlands. Voidlands.

[deep pawn]

I always called it Roothome

[glass flicker]

Stop it. Get original.

[glass flicker]

This is infinitely better already.

Like.

Shadowlands? Fine.
Rootlands? Okay, questionable, but I'll vibe with it.
Voidlands? STOP.

[tulip sun]

If we never delve into the harranir story oh my

Id be sooo angry

[zealous sedge]

we still don't know what this means huh

[deep pawn]

Is it Sylv? Is it something about death itself? Who knows

[little hound]

Probably just many of the terrors in the Maw.

The Maw is MASSIVE Compared to what we see ingame.

[dense plover]

bare minimum, this quest that umbric started seems to confirm that the DH we fight in the raid is teaching void elves to be demon hunters'

[autumn dagger]

With the new ethereal books on energy and planes It's interesting that the void fears smth that is on a higher energy level than it

Being that the entropic/negative forces are (+) decay -> death -> void (-)

[lavish raptor]

The boss from Brackenhide never came back

[zealous sedge]

Is the Maw actually the 7th cosmic force? The one hinted in Zereth Mortis

[lavish raptor]

How is a zone a force

[zealous sedge]

not the zone itself

[warm topaz]

i feel like its Death as well

[zealous sedge]

but like maybe how it was created

[autumn dagger]

I think the 7th force lore hints more towards "harmony" and azeroth being one of its core forces

Smth that holds the whole "universal fractal song" together

Or smth like that

[zealous sedge]

thats probable

like the nucleus at the center

something that has power over those forces though

[autumn dagger]

But i dont think whatever lies in the maw is that

[zealous sedge]

Maybe the Maw is so powerful that it devours everything even void. Could be simple as that

[autumn dagger]

Maybe

[lavish raptor]

I think maw is just supposed to be poopooland for bad people, not it's own special cosmic realm

I think she was trying to say that the void fears oblivion

Since if you die in the shadowlands you die forever

unless you're in maldraxxus

[autumn dagger]

I mean why, they themselves are "oblivion"

[autumn dagger]

The new in game books hint towards a further death state beyond death

[lavish raptor]

ultra death

[autumn dagger]

Smth like that

Smth with less energy than being a barebones soul

[rain cave]

I thnk it's more that "death" as a cosmic force allows things to escape the void

[zealous sedge]

It's interesting because I feel like void creatures don't have souls in the traditional sense but we don't know much about them

[zealous sedge]

oh thats a good point

its something that can't touch per se

[rain cave]

the reason the ethereals lived is by being souls

[zealous sedge]

or consume

[rain cave]

also death is finality

in a way

not possibility

life is potential on the other hand

[zealous sedge]

I just hope it doesn't turn into something thats similar to where the Burning Legion was essentially created to beat back the void, the void is there to beat back something bigger and worse.

[rain cave]

If you overlay the old origin lore from chronicle and the newer first ones stuff, as well as just look at the state of the cosmological forces. To me it leaves a big "first ones war" hole imo

not light vs shadow, but true order vs true chaos

death and light are just as order driven and zealous as order itself

fel is chaotic, void is infinite, life is boundless

meanwhile Light is focused on one truth, order wants to control, and death is a machine

[pulsar minnow]

Keep in mind the last time we saw Ve’nari she was hanging out with Xolartios. Yknow, a first one emissary or something heavily connected

[deep pawn]

I personally think the ethereals fate is horrific

[rain cave]

depends on if they can actually feel anything to me

[deep pawn]

They're non mortal energy vampires

[rain cave]

domination magic is interesting because it's probably one of the most order driven magics out there

[deep pawn]

When they "die" they have no afterlife, they just fade away or go to the Twisting Nether

[rain cave]

the jailer wanted to effectively, order the cosmos

[pulsar minnow]

So very likely Ve’nari knows way more about the true nature of the cosmos and how it all works thanks to Xolartios

[rain cave]

so to me that implies there's something opposite that, something that wants to throw the natural balance into chaos

[deep pawn]

One of the lore books has it that Ethereals think because they no longer have bodies they never change or grow anymore

I would argue they are no longer alive already

[rain cave]

that's just made me realize they can't have children

eventually there will be no more ethereals, just like the forsaken

[pulsar minnow]

Not necessarily

[rain cave]

well, they could always make more. But I mean the kareshi ones

[pulsar minnow]

When their bandages fail they fall into untethered space, where they can then be recovered

[rain cave]

but in the face of infinity?

[deep pawn]

Only for so long, they bleed out

[rain cave]

their existence relies on the infrastructure to keep them alive. They have no way of surviving without it

if that ever fails, for one reason or another their species is in great threat

[deep pawn]

Ethereals to me are just at the point where I don't see it as living anymore and they're extremely tragic echoes just trudging along.

[rain cave]

I mean they aren't living beings in a sense but they are conscious

[pulsar minnow]

They still have souls, they just don’t have bodies

[rain cave]

they're just souls piloting something that isn't a natural body

[deep pawn]

Except their souls have already been removed from the cycle

[pulsar minnow]

They’re still people and can make their own choices with their situation

[rain cave]

probably because just like how illidan taking in enough fel to become a demon, they have done the same

but for arcane

or void or whatever their brand of magic is

[deep pawn]

Old lore said they went to the Twisting Nether but that was old

[rain cave]

it would be interesting if we found out that all opposing forces effectively share a realm

and that's why they don't directly fight eachother

they don't want to perma die

like sure they aren't neighbours in there, but we get a feeling that ardenweald is connected to the dream quite directly

[deep pawn]

And lots of void creatures get pulled from the Twisting Nether too

[rain cave]

and the twisting nether is full of arcane AND fel

I mean hell maybe everything is just in the twisting nether somewhere and they all share it

[deep pawn]

But yeah, Ethereals feel like they have a lot more in common with Azeroth ghosts than not. They just have slightly more energy lol

But they aren't undead

[rain cave]

I mean, since azeroth is probably the canon reason why our characters can just resurrect like they do

it wouldn't surprise me if that's the technical reason for why Karesh's world soul being used like that made them all spirit form

if that makes sense

[upper pasture]

So brokers are ethereals that took a hearty form to go into the shadowlands because it was “required” but what about the enlightened? Aren’t those brokers that shed their containment units?

[pulsar minnow]

They gave up their material desires

Like trade and cartel allegiance

[upper pasture]

But like…they are surviving in the shadowlands without their “required” protection

[rain cave]

wdym they still have their mechanical parts

[pulsar minnow]

Karesh world soul explosion didn’t make them ethereals. It was the wasting of the arcane barriers. Like withered from Suramar on steroids

[upper pasture]

Just seems like we are being deceived by the ethereals, who hid themselves as brokers for no real reason

[rain cave]

they probably just see themselves as different culturally, just like how we wouldn't go "oh yeah I'm a human too", you'd just go "I'm american" or "I'm chinese"

I don't think they were neccesarily hiding it explicitly they just play with their cards close, and we don't really interact with them much in a casual way

I imagine some people knew it just wasn't common knowledge

[pulsar minnow]

Just to add to this you can actually see where the arcane is starting to replace flesh on the withered models

obviously back then the lore for the wasting wasn't written but it's cool to see it still fit well in established lore

[austere gazelle]

Why is my bottom screen glittering randomly?

[upper pasture]

It’s a bug

[lavish raptor]

the asset reuse for this patch is nuts

[warm topaz]

i hope something cool happens in the raid cinematic

from what we know and speculating a bit, Alleria and Locus come, Locus take the Dark Heart, Xal (supposedly) kill him and take the DH and then vanish

i hope there's something after she vanish OR the Midnight cinematic it's a continuation of that one

where Xal vanish and appears in Azeroth or something and she opens a portal

[deep pawn]

I mean story mode and the cinematic are mere hours apart on NA

[upper pasture]

Yeah there won’t be anything on mythic kill that’s different than story mode and the midnight reveal will likely pick up right after the raid conclusion

[little hound]

I suspect we get the end of raid cinematic, then an epilogue.

And we'l lget the midnight reveal on Gamescome the week after the raid.

[deep pawn]

I hope we see more of Locus Walker "unravel" next week.

Ve'nari is right that being on K'aresh is making him "sentimental"

[little hound]

Hope you got super glue..

[deep pawn]

I mean that fate matches his devolving

[little hound]

Yah 😄

[sleek solar]

What do you mean?

[deep pawn]

which part?

Locus Walker is very frazzled during this weeks campaign

He almost sounds defeated when he retreats to Tazavesh

He actually misses Xal'atath basically telling the Wastelanders they can go ahead and kill the remaining Ravel if the oracle can't hear K'aresh

[clear apex]

I kinda dig Xal rn

Though the quest to set up the nodes was kinda funny

[zealous sedge]

she's carrying the patch for me

I'm not saying Alleria is a bad character but her anger at Locus Walker felt inauthentic

[clear apex]

It seems childish esp for someone hundreds of years old? And went off to fight the legion for several thousand years

*IDK her age

[pulsar minnow]

especially when she already trusts the guy so much (granted, the cracks began to show in the audio drama)

[zealous sedge]

I agree. It was a tantrum

For me its like their civilization existed over 100k years ago you can't reasonably begin to understand what they had to do

[clear apex]

I very much agreed with the the others that she'll get it, in time

Sounds like the choice was; we all die or, we change into otherness and live

[zealous sedge]

If you think about it too, if Dimensius wasn't stopped on K'aresh, Azeroth probably wouldn't exist at all by this point

[deep pawn]

Half this crap is because Locus Walker just DOESN'T TELL HER ANYTHING

I think her anger is justified

Everything I've seen makes me feel that Locus Walker is getting everything he deserves and it sucks he's partly bringing our world down with him.

Maybe I'm being unfair, but the moment he whined that Xal told on him early I lost what little respect I had for him.

[zealous sedge]

That's true. I guess it was just the delivery of the line for me

[clear apex]

Her feelings may be (are) justified, but.... she doesn't need to act childish about it

We're trying to stop big bad and she's worried about her feelings being hurt instead of getting the job done and then laying into Locus about his "need to know" basis and how trust needs to be built from the start and not dodging really important things

[zealous sedge]

I think maybe if you're a player who hasn't followed the story since Legion the relationship might be confusing and the anger might feel out of place. There's basically only been one interaction with Locus Walker and that was in Pre-patch.

But I think it also depends on your personality somewhat. Sacrifice (almost) everything to survive or stand and fight and die trying anyways?

[deep pawn]

Locus Walker has made it clear he'd be fine with any consequence so long as he keeps existing. He's not so different from Xal

[uncut vault]

I think what theyre also doing is setting up Alleria having to decide if she wants to make the same kinds of choices in Midnight, when her home is the one directly on the line

[deep pawn]

I wouldn't because the more I see of real Ethereal culture, the less I see it as living. They're just echoes