beta-ptr-spoilers

[pulsar minnow]

He was all about overcoming that and helping Alleria get past the whispers

[deep pawn]

It's never worth the risk

How many times do people have to get burned to realize some tools just aren't worth it

[pulsar minnow]

I mean Alleria is managing fine so far. She's overcome it at every turn thanks to Locus Walker's training

[deep pawn]

Asbestos is a great fire resistant material, just wear a face mask constantly

Alleria is managing but at what cost? Her void powers haven't done much of anything beyond just constantly put her at risk.

She was mislead by someone who turned out to be a complete fool himself

[pulsar minnow]

She helped stave off the legion invasion for thousands upon thousands of years

thats literally why she embraced it

[deep pawn]

She didn't have any void powers for most of that.

Maybe Alleria ends up being the only truly good void user, but I don't think it'll be worth the cost.

It nearly destroyed her family, she's largely isolated herself because of them. She's been frequently miserable.

Locus Walker was using her

I refuse to accept the "sacrifice everything" mindset of people like Illidan, Locus Walker, and others are right even if they do move the plot sometimes. We're not supposed to root for them.

Their "sacrifices" should horrify us

[pulsar minnow]

She got infected by the void a good ways in, but a majority of the time she was using void

Locus Walker is literally the only reason she hasn't lost her mind yet

[deep pawn]

By pushing her to absorb more and more void. Taking another hit to avoid withdrawal, lol

[pulsar minnow]

I mean if you want to look at it that way?

If anything she has more control on it now than ever

Also her arc in the war within about isolation was not the void's doing. That was her own guilt for failing to save Dalaran

[deep pawn]

She was isolating herself before Dalaran

She had two different short stories going over that

[pulsar minnow]

That's not to say the void isn't a corrupting influence, it is. But to say Locus Walker did not help her is completely wrong

[deep pawn]

Locus Walker helped her by making her addiction worse

[pulsar minnow]

Because she's totally addicted to the void?

Again. The point of Locus Walker is that he is one of the only few individuals in the cosmos who is able to control the void as he does. He was never failed by his aptitude and control over the void. He never failed Alleria on that front either. She's not addicted to the void lol

Where Locus Walker failed was on K'aresh. He and the Ravel are all to blame, but he did it to save as many as he could because they were losing the fight.

What he did wasn't good, but again the alternative was outright extinction

[deep pawn]

I think the lesson is he never had true control

He was just as fallible as anyone

[pulsar minnow]

based on what though

[deep pawn]

And died for his hubris

[pulsar minnow]

he died because xal killed him lol. He didnt want to work with her but she was the only one able to get us in the manaforge. thats kinda the idea

[deep pawn]

He told us and Alleria to work with her despite everyone's misgivings

[pulsar minnow]

because there was no other way into the manaforge

he and venari didnt like her either lol

Im not saying Locus Walker didnt royally screw up on karesh but his characterization isn't this cocky arrogant void user who succumbed to the void

[deep pawn]

His entire life has come down to causing untold suffering to entire peoples for ultimately 0 gain. If Dimensius is dead it's only because Xal has replaced him

At best you can say Ve'nari and Firim being alive helped but that's a stretch

[pulsar minnow]

the ethereals yet live and their culture survived, i'd call that a gain.

and there's hope for the future based on the ending of the dungeon

[deep pawn]

I dunno given the people surviving lead to Dimensius being resummoned again, Xal eating a world soul, and Xal becoming a void lord

[pulsar minnow]

so you'd rather the planet and everyone on it die

[deep pawn]

Depends on if you consider them currently alive by mortal standards

[upper pasture]

i mean they were alive when they first got turned into ethereals. would you rather them have died there?

[deep pawn]

They're basically already dead. Their transformation sounds like they're glorified wisps

[upper pasture]

yet, they have free will and remember themselves?

[deep pawn]

So do most dead things in the Shadowlands, wisps have free will too

[upper pasture]

weird take man, they should have just let the genocide of their race happen and do nothing to try and stop it then?

cause like "what's the point"

[deep pawn]

They exist but I cannot say the Ethereals continued existence is a good thing. They exist now and of course ending their existence now would be wrong, but their creation just like the undead is likely evil

Most of them didn't choose to become this, so I put the blame on the Ravel and Xal

We'd have to ask a Kyrian if Ethereal souls are still collecting anima or not. They also don't seem to "die die" vs just bleed their energies out so in that regard they're already out of the great cycle

At least we know when undead die they go to the Shadowlands like other mortals

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but once they’re in the shadowlands they’re kinda locked into being there for most of eternity. Hell we don’t even know if they knew of its existence prior to becoming brokers. People on Azeroth sure didn’t until the sky split open

Also keep in mind if they’re consumed by the void they’re not going to the shadowlands either…

[upper pasture]

also things to consider IF they do go to the SLs like mortals, there's no reason to believe you'd get sorted into the same "house" as your others. so basically you'd be gambling on a new life

[pulsar minnow]

Idk if my planet is under siege and losing to a planet eating monster, I’d rather the scientists and leaders of the world to try and stop the planet eating monster. If it goes wrong man that sucks but we were dead anyways

Not lay down their weapons and go “don’t worry guys we’re all going to the afterlife now!”

[austere gazelle]

That would mean that Ve'nari was the first MawWalker... ?

[upper pasture]

who knows, but i doubt Ve'nari was the first broker/ethereal to travel to the SLs since tazavesh was also in the SLs at roughly the same time

but again who knows, she might have very well been but the travel stone predated her likely?

[hard axle]

Yeah, just about all Brokers went to Shadowlands, that's why they needed "stronger vessels"

[deep pawn]

He essentially turned his people into undead. We consider the Lich King a horrific villain

[upper pasture]

but it's the motive that matters, arthas did it do control the people, LW did it to save his people from death.

arthas thought he was "saving" them by killing them. LW was literally saving them from being consumed by the void

[rustic cliff]

has anyone been able to see what the "Bone Freezer" Mount looks like? From the raid renown track

[deep pawn]

I think the concept of existing for 100,000s of years requiring large amounts of arcane magic to sustain myself while not being really alive pretty damn horrific. I don't think he saved his people, just damned them in a different way

The Lich King was ostensibly converting everyone to undeath to protect them from the void as well

Is it just okay because they aren't visibly rotting?

[upper pasture]

Arthas killing literally anyone he came across that didn’t align with his goals or because sword told him to and LW “converting” his people into arcane magic over a seen threat are not the same.

[pulsar minnow]

Again- what’s your alternative for the ethereals

If not energy you’d want them just poofed from existence?

[upper pasture]

Arthas literally killed everyone in straholme because they were “infected” did he wait for them to succumb to the infection? No, he just slaughter everyone on sight and believed everyone there was beyond hope. Totally normal and sane thinking

[deep pawn]

Arthas at that point wasn't the Lich King

I'm talking about the lich kings mission as assigned by Sargeras

[upper pasture]

…right

[deep pawn]

If going to the Shadowlands as normal isn't possible oblivion might be preferable

Sargeras was lied to, but he approved the plan to be anti void

[pulsar minnow]

Alright man 💀 sure.

[deep pawn]

You want to live forever never growing, never aging, never having children?

Again it sounds horrific to me knowing how long they've been like this

[hard axle]

Sounds like a great body to have, if you ask me
I hate this fleshy body of mine
Annoying sex drive that I have no desire for, since I have no intention of getting into a relationship or having kids
Constant need for food, but never being able to tolerate the cooking time and process to get good healthy stuff
Getting fat because of eating convenient food, instead of healthy food
Constantly needing to go to the toilet
Constantly needing to bath due to sweat
Constant need to sleep, never being able to pick and choose convenient times to do, only when your body lets you

And then you have the Energy Lifeforms
No need for reproduction, and thus no sex drive
A need for a single source of "sustenance" being the energy you are made of
Never gaining weight because the energy you take in is what your body needs
Never needing to go to the toilet due to your body making full use of your intake, with no waste
Never needing to bath due to no sweat, just needing to replace your vessel every now and then
And finally, no pesky sleep

[pulsar minnow]

Idk I choose life. Besides all you gotta do is snip snip an ethereals bandages if you prefer oblivion

[hard axle]

Indeed

[deep pawn]

I am saying I don't think they qualify as "alive" anymore by the definition WoW uses.

they exist

[pulsar minnow]

We don’t really know if they have souls so there’s really no answer to this conversation 😛

Hopefully they bring back LW’s voice actor for other roles, he does an amazing performance

[deep pawn]

All of it is speculation

And lots of it comes down to writers just having 0 god damn concept how long 10k years is let alone 100 of thousands.

[pulsar minnow]

Well yeah but your saying that locus walker condemned his people to eternal damnation on the basis that they don’t go to the shadowlands which is not known lol

[deep pawn]

We don't know, but based on the whole they disperse into clouds and can be reformed if enough is gathered feels very not alive anymore.

[stable canopy]

hey uhh who wrote the frost dk guide for mop classic?

[upper pasture]

Shadow priests can disperse into clouds and reform does that make them not alive?

[stable canopy]

i have some issues... why is 2h frost not mentioned at all?

we all know it's borderline broken in mop classic so i was wondering what about the 2h rotation and stat prio

i just would like to know why it wasnt mentioned? 2h frost is actually stronger than dw is it not?

[upper pasture]

I’d say this is probably the wrong channel for this?

[deep pawn]

You can ask in the feedback channel

[stable canopy]

ok

where is the feedback channel?

[upper pasture]

#wowhead-feedback-support

[stable canopy]

oh nvm found it

[deep pawn]

some of the guides do have 2h options

[stable canopy]

ya it's mainly the rotation guide and the stat building guide that dpesnt include it

it's a great dw guide but for 2h support ur gonna be using obliterate a hell of a lot more AND using your KM procs on it as well as stacking haste like a mofo

[deep pawn]

Evitel just ruined this set for everyone. BABY DIMENSIUS

[hard axle]

....... sigh..... is it a good looking set? which one is it?

[deep pawn]

Mage

[hard axle]

tier set, or cloth open world armor?

[deep pawn]

tier haha

[hard axle]

ah

[deep pawn]

it's just reflection I guess, but it does look like a face

[lavish raptor]

He's so happy!

[hard axle]

YOU DON"T NEED TO MAKE IT ANY MORE OBVIOUS!!! SCREW YOU!!!!

[lavish raptor]

[deep pawn]

why did the blue tracker flag the ptr notes

[dense plover]

in all liklihood, they posted a draft for tomorrow or something and it was detected before being deleted

[deep pawn]

ah

[rain cave]

Was just reading a bit of the earlier convo, why the sudden locus walker hate? Does he do something in the campaign?

[deep pawn]

For me it's more about what was revealed about him and how his story ends

[austere gazelle]

do we know how he died ?

Azatoth (fomr lovecraft ) probably inspired Azeroth...

Xalatath + Azeroth = Azatath... 🤔

[rain cave]

What he do

[pulsar minnow]

Locus Walker & the Ravel struck a deal with Xal’Atath during the Devouring War. To sacrifice K’aresh’s world soul to destroy Dimensius, and in exchange Xal would turn his people into Ethereals to survive Dimensius’ onslaught. Things did not go according to plan though because the Ravel screwed up somehow

Leading us to the events of 11.2

[rain cave]

What's the ravel?

[pulsar minnow]

A sort of Kirin Tor adjacent organization that Venari and Locus Walker were apart of

Their goal was to find a way to kill dimensius no matter how strange or unorthodox

[glass flicker]

I keep crying about how Shandris's transmog sucks. But her Hearthstone look? Genuinely great.

Only a matter of time.

[remote shuttle]

I hope they don’t use that mog ingame and actually work something elven.

[ember blaze]

a part* 😡

[pulsar minnow]

🙁

[rain cave]

Is this some kind of sick joke that they were called the ravel and then ended up as a bunch of bandages after

[pulsar minnow]

those were my thoughts exactly lol

[novel zodiac]

yeah, isnt that bow from the horde?

[uncut vault]

No, it's the bow she's used since Cata, just minus the guard

[elfin eagle]

wondering

is there any mention of murmur?

werent they aligned with the eatherals in auchidoun

[ember blaze]

rip rumble

joining hots

[deep pawn]

yep

I wouldn't be shocked to see build delayed a day

[deep pawn]

Build feeling unlikely

[zealous sedge]

I just want to do reaid testing i missed out on

Also want to hear more about Delves specifically Brann

Also I really wanna know how delves will evolve in midnight. I hope we get a wider selection of companions.

[dense plover]

well brann isnt staying

the original plan was a new follower each season, which they announced was being changed to a new follower each expansion when 11.1 was on ptr

so we will have someone new

originally season 2 was going to be rexxar, though i doubt thats who they choose for midnight

not sure what blood elf would make sense - maybe the explorers league lady they added in dragonflight?

[zealous sedge]

Yeah more along the lines what are the curios and stuff for season 3 when talking Brann specifcially. They did a really good job with the curios this season imo.

Yeah I assume an elf of some sort

[dense plover]

evolution wise, im assuming more variety of stories, better rotation of stories, more diversity in monster type, and higher difficulties adding new abilities to bosses/monsters since right now it just makes them take longer to kill

curios they probably wont talk about beyond "there will be new ones"

im curious what they will do for the seasonal mount - i dont even know if season 3 is really getting one and it seems to be a lot of work. I honestly wouldve preferred if we had one mount and got a bunch of new cosmetics each season

[zealous sedge]

I hoping for higher difficulties and much higher cap on gilded crests

I agree with the mount

if its gonna be customizable just stick with one because s1 and s2 use the exact same skeleton if im not mistaken

[dense plover]

idk if theyll go beyond tier 11 tbh

they want people who can push higher to do M+

[zealous sedge]

Delves are generally pretty quick but I hope they make it to where its easier to skip packs of mobs. Atleast for me most delves feel like I need to kill almost every bit of trash each run. But maybe im just a bad player lol

[dense plover]

same with crests

though i wouldnt mind them bumping the amount to like 15 per instead of 10 per chest

[zealous sedge]

thats fair. Im just one of those players that has no interest in M+

[dense plover]

no - its definitely an issue, and i dont think pack skipping is the answer tbh

i think packs just need to be more interesting

monsters in delves could be decreased if there were more miniboss-type enemies with interesting abilities

[zealous sedge]

agreed. I guess its also the objectives to get the max rewards. Most objectives require killing everything

[dense plover]

or they could add more puzzles and such too

[zealous sedge]

yeah mini bosses and puzzles for sure

[dense plover]

variety needs to be the focus - especially since the layouts are somewhat static

i did like that some delves have you do them backwards - that was clever

the other option is finding ways to make the layouts less static - maybe reusing torghast tech?

[zealous sedge]

yeah that was good too. Also, no more underwater delves. They are the worst imo

[dense plover]

you know, if a delve had like 6 pieces and each piece had 3 variations, then even the same story would feel somewhat interesting

[dense plover]

yeah these are a problem

ive been doing them on my main and didnt realize how bad they were until i tried on an alt, because my main is forsaken

its actually crazy how busted those delves are as a forsaken because it just fully eliminates the breath mechanic

[zealous sedge]

oh yeah haha there's only like one or two storylines where you actually get a scuba suit or something

[dense plover]

actually you can buy a button at the start of the underwater delves now for gold

idk when they added that

[zealous sedge]

oh interesting

maybe they can add a reward for timing? But that may get weird and too much like M+. Also I am not sure if I would even like that

[dense plover]

i hope not

they originally were timed content and sucked

[zealous sedge]

yeah definitely not

blizz if youre reading dont do it

lol

i would say if they did like an achievement where its like tier 12 extra hard level that you time and you get a FoS out of it just for people to have that optional challenge

but like definitely not anything more than that

[deep pawn]

you'd think they'd have announced the new curios and stuff by now for some testing

this patch is out in like a month

[upper pasture]

Season 3 delve mount? Yeah I was leaked a bit ago

[deep pawn]

it's an sleaker void plane

[dense plover]

does it have additional customizations too?

[upper pasture]

yeah

[dense plover]

again, kinda just wish this was all parts customization for one mount

[upper pasture]

it has it's plain version and the "cool" version the plain one has extra stuff you unlock at the delve vendor

[pulsar minnow]

watch them make Vereesa the delve companion for Midnight

[novel zodiac]

i always tought that s1 and s2 mounts were the same but they're not lol

[deep pawn]

confusing cause they added a bunch of customizations for the s1 mount

[glass flicker]

Nah, I think it'll be Liadrin's squire/daughter.

She's a paladin, can fill all roles.

[upper pasture]

branns a hunter he can....oh wait nvm

i don't think they care about what the character can or can't do they will make up a reason if they need to

[zealous sedge]

Might be controversial but would be nice to see a simple talent tree for the delve follower in the future. Like even the MoP talent tree (style) for them.

[harsh mason]

I mean, he doesn't have a class at all. He's basically just a dwarf with a gun and various titan artifacts

But he really has a bear, and the legion made fun of him when Mimiron mistook another dwarf for Brann because he also had a bear pet.

And this was exactly in the quest chain of the hunter’s artifact)

[little hound]

Brann lorewise goes under the category of Hunter.

[harsh mason]

Hunters are very difficult to categorize lorewise, as are warriors.

[little hound]

Brann has literal questlines of dealing with wild animals, always uses a rifle on most of them. So no, it's really not

[uncut vault]

In fairness, basically every notable dwarf man has a questline like that :P

[glass flicker]

Hemet Nesingwary, Brann, Falstad, maybe Dagran?

[ionic terrace]

brann lorewise is standing in webs

[slow furnace]

Hey, is the PTR rn offline for Europe?

[uncut vault]

Offline everywhere, since yesterday

[deep pawn]

Wowhead has access to the build it appears

[ionic terrace]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/ghosts-of-k’aresh-development-notes/2119874/7

[deep pawn]

so, you think we're getting a teaser for new remix artifacts?

[remote shuttle]

The unused T’uure mace from Legion?
Assuming it’s part of the datamined storyline about T’uure and Dimensius.

[uncut vault]

This one was a model from legion pre-alpha, so it probably isn't an indicator of stuff

[deep pawn]

oh, so it's just back as an icon?

[remote shuttle]

Might be obtainable. I’m guessing npc weapon.

[uncut vault]

If nothing else, it gives me hope Blizz remembers the unused artifact appearances enough to give us the original Thas'dorah and hidden Aluneth variants

[pulsar minnow]

Makes sense for it to be a reward from legion remix tbh

I don’t see why not

[austere gazelle]

Dh third spec when? xD ( Yeah likely 11.2.5 or 12.0 I know )

Just tired of seeing the same classes having patch note as long as my arms every season

[crude sigil]

I think it's not before Last Titan @austere gazelle

[austere gazelle]

it'll be in midnight that's for sure. You can't use void to fight the void when the fight against the void is over

[rain cave]

third DH spec when legion remix drops would be interesting

would they give them and artifact?

evokers too?

evokers have the neltharion dungeon, storm drakes and the blue dragons in aszuna they can plug in to

[deep pawn]

I highly doubt they make a whole evoker class hall questline

[lavish raptor]

it would be neat if there was one tho

and it was just like

"help the infinite dragonflight"

[rain cave]

doesn't have to be

I just mean they probably will need some kind of item to fill the evokers artifact slot

and tbf they could plug them into some of the existing artifact questlines

neltharions scale for warriors could be used to give aug a place to get something neltharion themed, doesn't need much new dialogue, would just be using that scenario with a different context. Just like how disc priests and arcane mages share their location for aquisition, same with arms and shadow

devastation can get their from the nexus since there's an artifact questline there as I mentioned for disc and arcane

[upper pasture]

I was talking to a guildie last night about this and my thoughts are they will probably give “generic” artifact weapon so four different infinite weapon types that we use instead of the general artifact weapons from legion

[rain cave]

and preservation could maybe plug into ghanir's questline?

if DH get a void spec and it gets an artifact or some kind of unique weapon mog to represent that spec, I would really like it if it was basically black blade glaive

[upper pasture]

I just don’t think blizzard is gonna spend a lot of effort on creating new story lines for evokers is all

[rain cave]

that's what I'm saying

not every artifact questline is unique

and if they wanted to be meta with it, the class questline could literally be stopping the infinites from interferring with all the other classes campaigns lmao

so they just reuse EVERY classes campaign bits for the evokers

and just add a bit of extra encounter on top that is infinite themed

[upper pasture]

But there’s still the development of 3 different weapons and skins to make it not feel like they are forgotten about

Much simpler to be like “hey here’s a caster weapon go empower it” or melee weapon or whatever

Doesn’t need to be class based just an infinite flight looking staff/polearm or whatever, 4 items or so that spreads across all specs

Either way, still super excited for legion remix

[pulsar minnow]

I can see them doing one artifact for evokers

And please blizz let it be this. It would match up with the current evoker “class hall” being the lobby of the violet citadel with kalecgos standing 3 feet away

[uncut vault]

I could see them doing a simple plot, like making the Timeways their order hall and they're going back to make sure certain artifact stories happen as intended

assets for the Timeways already exist, and someone like Chromie already has an easy hook into Legion

[uncut vault]

I know it almost certainly isn't, but I've always headcanoned this as Krasus' blade, since he held Kalec's position on the Council of Six before him

[upper pasture]

I hope it’s true, I just don’t believe that blizzard would do that much for a single class and risk the backlash from the community that they are “favoriting” a single class

[uncut vault]

Would be a nice artifact for something like Devastation if they wanted to put in full effort, a blade wielded by a red dragon mage is perfect for their red/blue spec mechanics

[upper pasture]

It’s almost a damned if you do damned if you don’t scenario

[pulsar minnow]

I think the best solution is to just give Evokers one artifact with colors for all specs.

Give them like 3 tiers of appearances. One for base appearance, one for BoP/Raid, and a challenge appearance

Don’t need to bother with the PvP and Campaign appearances since they likely won’t have a campaign and iirc these time running servers didn’t have PvP? Or at least it wasn’t a focus

[sonic flame]

wait a moment

I'm not playing the gam but I'm following the cutscenes here and ther

in this one I'm seeing we are helping xal'atath? why?

thought she was evil

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRAPFsi5xNY

[upper pasture]

Didn’t have PvP in remix, since we were all there to help the infinites

[upper pasture]

More so she’s “helping” us

Enemy of my enemy type stuff

[sonic flame]

I see

but I thought she was to kill on sight

for our heroes

[upper pasture]

There are story reasons as to why we don’t do that in 11.2

Mostly because we need her to help us access the raid to kill the newer fresher bigger badder

[pulsar minnow]

Dimensius, an incredibly powerful void lord who’s mere presence rips apart reality is currently being reconstituted inside of Manaforge Omega. Beings of flesh and bone can’t get anywhere near him. Or they’ll just be torn apart

Ethereals on the other hand can. Xal’Atath made the ethereals and she’s the only one with the knowledge and power to turn people into pure energy.

If Dimensius wins everyone is screwed. Including Xal. So she’s helping us get inside, but nobody is fooled we and Alleria and Locus Walker all know she’s going to betray us after

[sonic flame]

I thouhht Xal was serving the void lords and wanted azeroth to be invaded by the void?

if not what does she want

[pulsar minnow]

She’s not

[upper pasture]

Power

[pulsar minnow]

She serves herself. Dimensius destroyed her planet and forced her into servitude as a Harbinger. She wants to be free of him and a whole lotta power

[sonic flame]

dimensius destroyed her planet?

[upper pasture]

Basically Xal’s motto to me is “why serve when you can rule?”

[sonic flame]

isn't her an elf? what planet

[pulsar minnow]

She’s not an elf

[sonic flame]

wtf

[pulsar minnow]

She’s a void being inhabiting the body of a dead blood elf

[upper pasture]

That body was something she took in BfA

[sonic flame]

ah I see

it had smth to do with the priest artifact?

[upper pasture]

There was a quest where we kill that elf and then she took the body as her own form

[lavish raptor]

this was explained in lorewalking

just play the lorewalking questline kek

[upper pasture]

"I'm not playing the gam but I'm following the cutscenes here and ther"

[lavish raptor]

ahh right....i think there's playthroughs of the lorewalking questline online

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aj9wjwqYMMM&pp=ygUVeGFsJ2F0YXRoIGxvcmV3YWxraW5n
this video is a long stream but it has chapters

[uncut vault]

I was never actually able to find that "Dimensius destroyed my planet" dialogue in my playthrough

[warm topaz]

from T&E video

https://youtu.be/jZlvRJs0l4o?si=omccMhaki6r4b--O&t=1115

[uncut vault]

That must have been removed after the first build, because this was the dialogue I got at that exact same segment

[warm topaz]

without Stay awhile and listen?

[uncut vault]

It has it with the Stay a While too, I jsut got the screenshot after I'd already triggered it

[deep pawn]

maybe it's race based?

[warm topaz]

oh, that's interesting

[uncut vault]

It's also weird because Xal'atath never actually mentions her origins before or after that moment

so I assume they might have realized it wasn't actually part of the story being told?

[warm topaz]

i hope they explain us her origins at some point

[deep pawn]

I guess maybe because Azeroth isn't destroyed yet and Dimensius didn't destroy Argus or Draenor

[uncut vault]

Oh neat, they updated Frostscythe to use the new HD Ahune scythe

[deep pawn]

some are cranky

[deep pawn]

there'll always be someone who hates change

I hate the new Lightning Bolt sitll

[harsh mason]

Bro😭

[hard axle]

So, Xal's body, yeah, so she is an Energy Being, much like the Ethereals, and like them, requires a "vessel"
Now, while the K'areshi chose bandages and armor (Brokers) Xal'atath chose... a Void Elf's body....
Yes, she took over the body of a living Void Elf..... which the players helps her do
Do the Xal'atath Lorewalking to see how we did so
And I recommend the Ethereal one while you are at it

[little hound]

Xal isn't a being of Energy, she is a being of the Void.

The only relation she has with the Ethereal/Brokers is that she attempted to negotiate with them to destroy Dimensius, but something went wrong on the Ravel's part, and they f*cked up.

[little hound]

Ner'zhul destroyed Draenor by making the planet unstable with a massive amount of portals

[upper pasture]

she didn't take over a living body, we killed said elf then she uses the body

[little hound]

I don't see a major difference there. ITs still not her own body, and she's taking it

Ah right, i didn't see the "Living Body" part. My bad my bad.

[hard axle]

I'm confused....
I'm here in Netherstorm to get a quest reward tmog, and these Manaforges....
The Architecture of the main bodies, resemble Draenei Architecture, i.e. the Exodar, Tempest Keep, those other three, the Zenedar
But those kind of pumping parts, and the tubes channeling arcane energy, those are the same as the Manaforges in K'aresh....
So.... is the architecture of these Netherstorm Manaforges just coincidentally similar to Draenei architecture, or what?
Seriously, I am so confused
(Asking here since it connects to the content of the next patch)

[remote shuttle]

It was cut a few builds ago.

[deep pawn]

Kaelthas built the manaforges using the Naaru ship parts

It's presumed the Ethereals just stole the idea

[rain cave]

Or maybe it's the other way, kael saw a way to gather mana and just copied their designs

[deep pawn]

Original lore is it was KT's idea

[little hound]

It was Kael'thas's way of solving the crisis of his people's mana starvation/addiction.

[warm topaz]

isn't this final raid very similar to what happened in WoD?

there's a bad guy (Dimensius/Archimonde), another powerful character (Gul'dan/Xal'atath), and it's all building toward a large-scale invasion (Legion/Void)

[rain cave]

ofc he'd say that tho

[warm topaz]

https://www.wowhead.com/es/news/what-if-nzoth-is-still-alive-the-war-within-lore-speculation-376906

really cool article!

do we know where's the dagger now?

[dense plover]

nope

cannonically went missing

[upper pasture]

That’s like the whole point of the article lol 😂

I really do hope that N’zoth is still alive, I’m a sucker for old gods

[warm topaz]

yeah but, no reason?

just missing because okay

[dense plover]

yes

[upper pasture]

Did you read the article?

It could be missing for “reasons”

[dense plover]

i mean, no, i have my own theories

nzoth explicitly wanted the dagger

like that was the point of the crucible mini raid

[warm topaz]

hold on, double checking lol, its embarassing i did read it 😭 🤣

[upper pasture]

If N’zoth had put himself in the dagger he would definitely would want to hide that fact

[dense plover]

why would nzoth want the dagger if being captured was the end of the road

[dense plover]

exactly

[warm topaz]

okay yeah, got it, mb 🤣

[upper pasture]

Basically it boils down to two options either the dagger is pointless and blizzard writes it off or N’zoth is in there and he’s hiding from us

I hope it’s definitely the latter

[warm topaz]

did we know Xal was in the dagger before getting it?

i mean, if she hadn't talked to us, would we have known she was there?

[upper pasture]

At that point she’s not in the dagger anymore iirc

[warm topaz]

yeah i mean back in Legion, when we get the artifact

[upper pasture]

Priests would know for sure, but not that she’s trapped in there just a sentient weapon to their knowledge, like until we helped her get that body I don’t think we would have much reason to believe she’s more than just a weapon sorta like remora or whatever that dudes sword was named

[rain cave]

I love the idea that Xal was just bored hopping between people and then the player picks them up and she's like "oh shit this guys good"

but yeah I hope N'zoth is playing along game

especially if azshara comes back in midnight, thinking nzoth is dead/gone

N'zoth teamup to take down azshara would go hard I fear

since I feel removed from his old god mission, N'zoth could be on our side at least in part for a while

[upper pasture]

I felt a real “oopsie” moment when doing the quest to “stop” the void ritual and then Xal took over the body. I was like “that surely can’t be good”

[rain cave]

dominos meme

[keen mango]

any place in ptr tyo get ilvl 700 range>?

[lavish raptor]

i mean you can probably get ilvl700 gear from the ptr vendors. idk

[keen mango]

imean 1 handed weapons sorry

[deep pawn]

try the capital city for your faction

[little hound]

Ooh.

They updated the model for the Mythic mount.

https://www.wowhead.com/ptr-2/item=243061/unbound-star-eater#modelviewer

The back of its head has this void/rippling effect now.

[ember blaze]

do raid mounts still hint at the future still

[little hound]

This one sure doesn't seem to.

But then again, Midnight is going to be all void-related too so, hard to tell. I think we'll mostly just get a good hint in the ending cinematic of the next raid.

[rain cave]

"In the void-scarred wake of the All-Devouring and his kith, twisted remnants of distant worlds and forgotten aeons find their way across the Great Dark."

[little hound]

Didn't know i could read, thanks for reminding me.

[rain cave]

does that imply dragons like ones on azeroth exist on other planets?

[little hound]

Yes. You see some dragons flying in the fog when you do the Eonar fight in Antorus. Green Storm drakes, probably just using the models for the sake of it but.

[rain cave]

interesting, we also have the fae dragons on draenor I remember

[little hound]

Considering the great dark beyond has so many planets, i don't think its unlikely that other draconic races exist.

[rain cave]

and in zereth mortis the language of "life" is draconic, when they attempt to communicate

[little hound]

There are Faerie dragons there, yes. Not sure how they are connected to Draenor though, as their lore makes no sense in them being there.

[rain cave]

interesting interesting

perhaps dragons are the heralds of the ordered life that eonar set up with the pantheon?

or just a common form they use for it

[little hound]

Dragons on Azeroth were brainwashed to believe in the Titans, i doubt they hold much love for the Titans now that they've been blessed by Azeroth.

[pulsar minnow]

I’m gonna go out on a limb and say the Mythic mount is a dragon because it looks cool

[rain cave]

well yeah obviously

but the flavour text does give lore to explain why it's a dragon after the fact

still makes it canon

[pulsar minnow]

I mean all the flavor text says is that the mount is just an amalgamation of distant worlds

It’s not saying it’s a dragon

[ember blaze]

genuine question, are these dogs canon in wow now 💀

whats the "lore" behind a diablo 4 goblin spawning all over the world

[rain cave]

I read it as saying it's an echo of something from one of the planets it's consumed

doesn't say anytthing about amalgamation

[rain cave]

I mean yeah obviously some things are dubiously canon or not that serious

but am I not allowed to point out an interesting consistency in the worldbuilding, that this is another piece of evidence to the titans grand plan in a way?

[ember blaze]

i wanna learn more about this

and the other cat

[rain cave]

and why dragons look the way they do

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/yuumi-dance-gif-14398265

[rain cave]

like how elune's influence makes things look "elf" like, fel influence makes you look "demonic", we know dragons aren't pure order and are more aligned with both life AND order, the brand of life that Eonar and Amanthul probably agree on

the pantheon were the ones to change their forms, probably using that order + life magic

and if that's what it makes things look like, keep in mind dragons are descended from elementals in lore, and other planets have elements and dragons in varying degrees

so the description of the mount just kind of reinforces that idea that there are other dragons influenced by the titans on other planets, because the titans have a grand design thing going on

[tropic trail]

Befriended a pair? Who is the next one

[ember blaze]

https://tenor.com/view/yuumi-dance-gif-14398265

[little hound]

No.

[little hound]

There is no firm "Lore". ITs a crossover event, nothing more. Not EVERYTHING has a big meaning or a story behind it. Events happen for the fun of it, cosmetics and mounts..

Folks overthink these things way too much.

[rain cave]

I mean you can argue that since we have the felhounds, that the diablo dogs are just a different breed /species of that

and that's how it's justified within the ingame lore

[little hound]

... Felhounds and the Hellhounds from Diablo are nothing alike, not even remotely.

[ember blaze]

🤔

painter/dreamer class when

[little hound]

Preferably never.

[rain cave]

I mean...

[ember blaze]

youre such a hater 💀

[little hound]

A mount using the freaking same bone/geoset as another mount? We have TONS of those in the game. Doesn't mean there' any lore.

[rain cave]

I know, but my point is they look similar

and there is precedent of other similar things

this is also a thing

[little hound]

How are they similar..? One is a skull-headed demon with wings.

[rain cave]

like there IS room within the warcraft canon for amalgamated demon constructs

the amalgam mount isn't recognized within the canon, since it's a crossover promotion as you said. But it can exist within the established canon, it doesn't break it

[rain cave]

dog skull

but yeah you do realize things can exist within the canon, whilst also not being that deep

not everything that isn't deep is non-canon or unimportant

[little hound]

According to much of current and old lore, it is.

[rain cave]

I agree people overthink/read too deep on things. I was in a discord getting attacked because I said that looking at one planet in the skybox for argus fight as evidence of a grand lore eureka moment was a bit much.

but also they don't add things to the game that would break canon

even if things aren't recognized in the story, aren't deep or important, they always exist within canon as warcrafts VERSION of that thing

[little hound]

I won't acknowledge made up "What If's" if there's nothing that points at the even having a slight chance of being true or happening.

[rain cave]

it isn't literally an amalgam/hellhound from diablo

it's warcrafts version of that same thing

[rain cave]

so you don't think iridikron will be in the last titan?

as an example

[little hound]

That much is very much confirmed already, there's nothing "Made up" about what's been pointed to strongly in lore and facts.

Comparing a near confirmed fact about Iridikron >> Thinking there's a canon reason for Felhounds and Diablo's Hellhounds to be close.

There's a gap there.

[ember blaze]

damn so my painter/dreamer class does have a chance!

[little hound]

Keep wishing, it won't happen. This isn't FFXIV.

Same goes for Tinker copers, or those wanting Ogres to be playable.

[rain cave]

we don't have any concrete, objective evidence saying he will though

it's all in the... say it with me

subtext

[ember blaze]

you might want to sit down for this

[little hound]

There's literally a cinematic of him saying he'll wait for the Titans to return..

[rain cave]

and that very same subtext is what I am referring to for the other points I am making

[rain cave]

does that mean he'll be in the last titan though?

[little hound]

Tobi, Emerald Dream and a Dream are..entirely different. I'm not sure if you're trolling or being dum dum.

[rain cave]

what if he means until after they've returned

[little hound]

Yes, as that's confirmed as to when they Titans will return to Azeroth.

[ember blaze]

also, how in the world is tinker and ogres your example when those are well established things in the game for 20 years

[rain cave]

what if the titans don't return until the end/finale of tlt

we don't know! it's all up in the air! We can only make general assumptions on what they would generally mean with that statement

[little hound]

Please go watch the Worldsoul Saga announcement again..

[rain cave]

which is ofc as you say, that iridikron will be in tlt

I'm literally not denying it

[little hound]

Because that's what most goofballs i know have been coping and moaning about even til this day.

[rain cave]

I'm just telling you. The same reason we think iridikron is in TLT is the same reason for my dragon comments

so if you want to dismiss it, you'll need something consistent with your own logic mate

I don't want to argue with you

[rain cave]

also this is kind of funny sincer tinker is actually looking decently on track for TLT, if there is a new class then

[ember blaze]

all i know is a mount came to life from a dream and a painting and you can ride it. it's canon 😎

[little hound]

I'm sticking to what's lorewise possible and capable of happening, your points are all "What if this, what if that", trying to pull stuff outside of Canon.

[rain cave]

like obv nothing objective, but there's been very deliberate setup for it

and there's really nothing stopping them adding ogres

[little hound]

If Tinker was to be a thing, undermine would have been the best place to stuff it in.

[rain cave]

it would just be a win for blizz to do

[rain cave]

that's your understanding of tinker

[little hound]

Tinker is more of a Gnomish thing to be, Goblins can't make shit without it exploding in their faces.

[rain cave]

the tinker they are setting up is the "titan machinery" style one, not the goblin/gnome rocket clockwork stuff

if you don't like that, fair enough.

[little hound]

You realise Gnomes are related to Titanic ancestry throug Mimiron, right?

[rain cave]

and they also have significant cultural and aesthetic differences

[little hound]

So despite them being afflicted with the Curse of Flesh, Gnomes can be just as capable tinkerers.

[rain cave]

also i imagine a tinker class would want to be race neutral as much as they can

[harsh mason]

Ogres, as a playable race, look bad

[rain cave]

we don't know this since they don't exist

[little hound]

Yes. Thank you. I'd hate for Ogres to be playable.

I'd honestly more want for Ethereals to be playable.

[ember blaze]

what do you even mean by this

[little hound]

That they look bad. Simple as? If i saw an Ogre in full plate T3 transmog? With their sizes? I'd fucking fly away.

[rain cave]

"guys worgen as a playable race look bad"

if they become playable they'd obviously get a retouch

[ember blaze]

we already got ogres as playable 💀

[harsh mason]

It's exactly what I wrote. I genuinely don't understand why people want these races, just like naga.

[rain cave]

not everyone plays the game to look like a handsome elf

[little hound]

Shrunken Ogres? Eeh. That'd just look weird, no way they'd give players a race as tall as a massive doorway.

[rain cave]

who says shrunken?

[ember blaze]

here are your ogres 💀

[little hound]

Players wanted playable Dragons? Oh look, we got Scalies with no visible armor almost.

Burly Men > Ogres, but yeah.. I guess that's close enough.

[ember blaze]

just slap the skin over the skeleton and you got your ogres 💀

[rain cave]

but also yeah lore wise tauren are larger than their playable forms

[harsh mason]

I'm not talking about elves, there are many different playable races in the game. But nagas and ogres look too out of place( Exactly as a playable race)

[rain cave]

so shrunken ogres would work

[rain cave]

only because they've not been made into one

[pulsar minnow]

I mean he’s only half ogre but rexxars model looks fucking awesome

I can see why people would want to play as this

[rain cave]

NPC races get a different art standard/look than player races

[little hound]

Rexxar looks like he's on crack.

[harsh mason]

Ogres are too big, naga... I don't even want to write obvious things

[ember blaze]

wanting a non human/short human race to paly as? 😱

[rain cave]

NPC races tend to focus on simple/reusable animations, baked in armour on older ones at least, and more context/niche stuff

[pulsar minnow]

I think size is kind of out the window now that kul tiran, Zandalari, and Dracthyr are playable

[little hound]

I doubt Nagas would be doable, as few of the "Original" naga even remain. Most of the Naga these days are born in hatcheries, and mind tampered from birth. This was shown in the Eternal Palace.

[rain cave]

whereas playable races get better animations, MORE animations, armour slots, customisations, etc

Naga are perfectly able to be playable

[ember blaze]

like im sorry, but i dont want just some variation of human as a race to play as

[rain cave]

there's a very easy way to do so

[ember blaze]

oh look a human with pointy ears

oh a short human

[rain cave]

like they can literally give us playable naga with a 30 minute quest experience if they wanted

[ember blaze]

oh a fat one

[little hound]

Lorewise Naga are aggressive and devoted to Queen Azshara. The ones who were turned from Elves into Naga, are all but near extinct. So i don't think any faction would recruit Naga that are trying to murder them.

[rain cave]

"Azshara has left us, and we are aimless. The void threatens us just as much as you, we see you are doing an elven reunification, us naga are also elves."
cue them being blessed to get an alternate nightelf form with some naga customisations, like a dracthyr visage form. Whilst they retain the ability to transform into full naga but without full armour slots visible.

midight naga playable

[little hound]

Crossing my fingers they don't grow that desperate.

[glass flicker]

Who knows. I, for one, expect them to make the big hulking naga lads the justification for playable naga. "They have legs!"

[rain cave]

I think that works as a way to give the playerbase a long requested race whilst weaving it into the midnight narrative organically

[glass flicker]

Naga with legs exist.

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah they can probably just make up a new form of naga like they did Dracthyr

[little hound]

Just waiting for them to fail just as utterly with how much armor shows on them.

[rain cave]

ehh that's not very satisfying though imo

[pulsar minnow]

Literally just call them Ascended Naga that broke free from Azshara/the voids control, but still give em an option to go full snake if they want

[rain cave]

we've already got an example of the neurbians turning into humanoids with void infusion

it's also looking lik azshara might be the main villain in midnight potentially

she is looking like one of the bigger candidates for it atleast

so we know she'll be back to infuse her naga

maybe some of them reform, reject her after seeing what they're doing

[little hound]

Seeing as the goal they announce with Midnight is to "Unite elven tribes". I feel like we might have to deal with her somewhat.

[rain cave]

and that's why I think naga will be playable

naga are elves

[little hound]

Few are, most modern Naga are made/bred in Hatcheries, as you can see in the Orgozoa fight during Eternal palace.

[rain cave]

still elves

orcs that drank the fel blood are still orcs

[little hound]

When the ones made in Hatcheries are BORN NAGA, they not STILL Elves..

[rain cave]

orcs that are born from fel blood drinking orcs are still orcs

blood elves are still elves

[little hound]

It changed their skin color, there's a biological difference there...

[ember blaze]

redeem azshara 😈

[rain cave]

changed their look, same thing

just different extents

their culture is still largely elven, they live in elven cities, they use elven naming

[little hound]

Original Elves who were turned into Naga, and BRED NAGA Born in Hatcheries are NOT the same thing..

[pulsar minnow]

I mean we know there is a naga hatchery but is there anything concrete actually saying most of the original crowd are extinct?

[little hound]

Compared to the amount of Naga that are born in Hatcheries and how rapidly they are born? I'd say the Pure Naga are far more populated than the Naga that were made over 10.000 Years ago.

[rain cave]

So vereesas children aren't elves? Since they were born blood elves, not night elves that transformed?

Is thrall not an orc?

[pulsar minnow]

So… there isn’t anything saying that they’re extinct

Also seeing as how we wiped out the Eternal Palace, why would these newborn naga want to follow Azshara?

[little hound]

Not extinct, but severely underpopulated compared to Naga that are bred and aged through magical means. yeah, i think the OG naga are still elves. But the ones that have been fish all their lives are something else... They obviously must still have some elven blood, but they're more correct void abberations, imo

[rain cave]

If anything, the naga ARE the original elven society

[little hound]

I doubt someone like Azshara would have simply 1 hatchery in her territories. The oceans are vast and deep, and she's been lurking in them for thousands of years.

[little hound]

The OG Naga turned at the Well of Eternity? They are the Original Elven Society.
The new generation of PURE Naga are closer to void beings and bred aberrations, rather than elven in origin.

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but it’s also been like what, 7 years since Azshara screwed off in game. There’s probably room for some of these younger naga to no longer blindly follow this queen of theirs

[little hound]

If the hatcheries are under her control wherever they are, they are most likely born with a mind that forces their loyalty, just like the one within the Eternal Palace.

[pulsar minnow]

We know for a fact Azshara is still MIA based on the book found in Forbidden Reach

She is not on Azeroth right now

So nothing is really under her control as it stands. It’s her loyalists if anything. I wouldn’t be surprised if some naga finally decided to split off after she left

[little hound]

That's a possibility.

Although from what the ones we've seen so far, most of her followers are Fanaticaly loyal to her, and wouldn't even dream of turning on her.

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah but at this point there’s an easy write in they could do

[little hound]

Also true.

[pulsar minnow]

And it’s not like we haven’t seen naga have ulterior motives before. We saw them help us with the Burning Legion as an Illidari

[little hound]

Yup, and some were against Azshara in Vash'jir also i believe.

[rain cave]

We also know that as a society, they follow her because she protects them

But if she comes back to azeroth with intent to destroy..

Without her influence on azeroth they've also been given time to think, be independent

No nzoth either

[little hound]

What? They followed her during the Well of Eternity willingly because they worship her as a goddess, not because of protection.

[rain cave]

It's literally because they see her as a protector

[little hound]

Can you show me where that is proven?

[rain cave]

She saved them

Is my point

Without her, they would be dead

[little hound]

Without her, she would still have a Naga army fanaticaly loyal to her who worships her, born in the same Hatcheries. Elven or Naga, same result.

[rain cave]

They turned to her when the well exploded, she put up barriers for them

[rain cave]

Naga would not exist without her

She saved them by turning them into the Naga

[little hound]

Naga wouldn't exist without N'zoth*

[rain cave]

With her deal

[rain cave]

Naga are elves transformed by nzoth. He can transform other things sure, but they wouldn't be Naga

But without azsharas deal, Naga would not exist

[little hound]

Feel free to read any Naga dialogue, their worship isn't for her as a defender, but as a goddess.

[rain cave]

A godess who protects them

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/face-desk-facedesk-gmod-idiot-box-dasboschitt-gif-10948233623073010840

[rain cave]

That's always been her claim, the power that she used to make their society great , to keep them safe

I feel saying people look up to gods for protection is not controversial

That's usually what happens

Especially for mortal idols like her

[little hound]

As is to be expected of the most powerful sorceress/mage in the current Warcraft universe.

[rain cave]

Mortal mage

She's probably gone up in power since bfa

But she was at her weakest in bfa I would argue

So that's a given to me

[little hound]

She's had no reason to be weakened, so i doubt she'd ever been at her weakest during BFA.

[rain cave]

No well of eternity

[little hound]

She's had 10.000 Years and N'zoth at her back, she is not weakened that greatly She didn't even rely too much on the Well to begin with.

[rain cave]

I mean we beat her

[little hound]

If it wasn't for the need of "Raid mechanics"? She could have just popped the dome we were in, drowned us, and released N'zoth on her own..

Lorewise? She would have beaten our asses like a drummer on a stage. THe "Player characters" are just overpowered.

And raid mechanics make room for plot armor.

[rain cave]

maybe

[little hound]

That's not even a maybe. Several sea creatures thrice her size circled that dome, we'd have been chicken ducked if "Logic" played any part of her encounter.

[rain cave]

it isn't confirmed either way, but we do know her primary source of power WAS the well

after it was destroyed she couldn't even keep a barrier up against some water

sure she got stronger with help from nzoth

[little hound]

SOME Water?

[rain cave]

but also nzoth wasn't supplying her with that much power. he wanted her not to be a threat to him

[little hound]

That "SOME WATER" Was the world tearing itself apart around her, and severing a continent. That girl held back a collapsing continent around her, not just "Some water".

[rain cave]

it was just water

sure the other stuff was happening

but that wasn't what destroyed the barrier

[little hound]

Do you know how insane water pressure can get? It has turned submarines into mashed tin cans when gone deep enough.

[rain cave]

considering she's meant to be an uber powerful mage, literally capable of insane feats of strength. The cinematic shows he on the rings

[rain cave]

I know

but evidently water pressure is no issue for azerothians

since she seemed fine once she was in it

guess she forgot she could just cast a water breathing spell on her and her people

:P

[little hound]

She tried in the lore with her scepter, you can read about that in the shaman order hall i believe.

[little hound]

You know NPCs in WoW Do that easy peasy for the sake of gameplay, right? In Lore, magic is far more advanced than just waving a wand around.

[rain cave]

and therein lies my point

that the story is vibes based and everything is just speculation

[little hound]

You can read more in the Shaman ORder hall, but she did attempt to save her people using the scepter, under water. Although it failed.

[rain cave]

my point is that from what we understand, losing the well of eternity would weaken her. Sure she'd still be very strong but without it, she would be weaker than her prime

even if still the most powerful mortal mage

[rain cave]

also nzoth wanted her to lose

but still "succeed"

[little hound]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-t9NvCRYzg

[rain cave]

but at the end of the day, it's all a big maybe

the fact she used barriers to prevent her people from dying is not just a heroic act on her part. It's storytelling shower her panicking as she reaches her limits, visibly weakened and thrown off by the events around her. The barriers represent not just an attempt to save people, but also her inability to want to let go of what she had

literally trying to stop the tides of change

and even at risk of death, she asks nzoth keep her a queen, keep her subjects

she would rather be dead than not be a queen with people to rule over

[little hound]

I do hope we'll get to see Elisande again too.

[rain cave]

the council of elf women who serve must be assembled 💅

[little hound]

She did yeet from her own timeline after using the Discs of Norgannon Maybe she'll visit.

[rain cave]

Tyrande, Elisande, Azshara, Alleria, Sylvanas, Liadrin, Thalyssra

they can all have their boy toy husbands in the back playing cards

[little hound]

Veressa can't, Rhonin went boom.

[rain cave]

maybe we can get an echo of his in

[little hound]

I would agree but considering it was a Mana Bomb that hit him? I'd say he's as gone from existance as is even possible. Everyone in the radius had the mana torn from their bodies, and vaporized into pink dust.

[rain cave]

I mean he could always have left an echo somewhere else

like syndragosa

there probably is one that exists for sure but it would just be simple

[little hound]

Sindragosa didn't leave an echo, but a Simulacrum.

[rain cave]

not actually him

potayto potato

[little hound]

Its like a copy of her memories, to serve as a guide.
An echo is a tiny portion of power that fades once used.

Still sussing out that we'll get ANOTHER Zul'aman raid, as Midnight will take place alot over a new Quel'thalas.

Not that i mind, i'm just surprised that the Amani tribe isn't totally extinct after having been raided TWICE, and annihilated in the Throne of Thunder.

[rain cave]

my thinking is:
-Zul'aman first raid

• 4 renowns: Amani Trolls, Ghostlands Undead, SIlvermoon Refugees, and whatever the united faction against the void is called

[little hound]

I'll avoid making too many theories, we'll have a reveal of Midnight in like a month with probably a lengthy interview / Overview afterwards.

[rain cave]

and then maybe orweyna would be mixed into the campaign for the elves and trolls coming to peace

[little hound]

Orweyna would fit nicely.

[rain cave]

personally a big fan of Calia being given stuff to do, like being confronted with blood elves who tremble in fear upon hearing her surname

and giving the undead in the ghostlands a new purpose and identity, I've said it before but her leading them up the scar to SAVE silvermoon rather than destroy it is a nice image

[little hound]

My biggest hope is to see the three Windrunner sisters fight together to protect Quel'thalas again, as they did before.

[rain cave]

I hope that gets big production resources

like I would pay to see a fully CG rendered cinematic of that

Alleria bringing the biggest firepower but having to stave off void whispers, Sylvanas being also very strong but having to ground Alleria with her experience of also having to stave off mind control and not being yourself, Vereesa desperately holding off as much as she can and fighting to be in the spotlight that was never given to her

sounds corny but it would be great emotional beat for me

[little hound]

As of her dialogue in the PTR, it doesn't seem like she's struggling too badly with them anymore. Gotten used to it perhaps?

[lone mantle]

Sunwarmed Furline.

[rain cave]

that's now however

I think it was tali that pointed out that she's been blocking out the voices from xal because she knows she's a liar, she's trusted locus walker

but now she's realized locus walker lied to her, and Xal tells her the truth about it

and we're all working together

sure she's still choosing to be on our side now, but there's definetly an aura of moral muddying happening now

and that uncertainty is the sort of thing that could cause a spiral

[green nacelle]

Hey, got a question I dont know where to ask so I'll try here ; seeing the recent data mined about void elves demon hunter, you reckon if that is true, it would happen in 11.2 or rather in Midnight expansion?

[crude sigil]

not datamined, only speculation about some dialogue on ptr

only things datamined and see on ptr can't conclude to "yes we gonna have DH void elf playable".

[ember blaze]

pre patch is likely

probably available for legion remix

[dense plover]

the only void DH is a boss in the raid

thats where the model comes from

is it possible? yes

is it likely? who knows

with legion remix, its very likely we get new race/class combos since that helps incentivize reasons to level

i do wonder what they will do with evoker though since they dont have a class hall

[deep pawn]

just use Kalec, or the timeways as others have suggested

[zealous sedge]

Really hoping they keep class halls and artifact weapons in remix as I never got to to authentically experience those. Worst case I can wait for Legion classic lol

[dense plover]

i hope so too tbh

use the artifacts to replace the cloaks, use new gems to replace the artifact trait +ilvl items

and give each player a class ability

i hope they do a new artifact appearance set to replace mage towers and maybe one to replace pvp too

[zealous sedge]

Oh yeah mage tower will be interesting… maybe recolors for the rewards because I assume the challenges will be super easy once you are maxed out. But I know people sink a ton of time to get those achievements and may want to keep that intact and keep it challenging or just have it not present in remix at all.

[dense plover]

might just not be available - challenge dungeons werent for MoP remix

the real issue imo is that there are far fewer raids and far more dungeons than in MoP

so a lot of the gameplay will have to shift to M+

idk what that will look like

[deep pawn]

there's actually more raids in Legion

[upper pasture]

The uncapped M+ is gonna be fun

Mop remix power levels unlimited M+, sign me up

[dense plover]

werent there only 4?

nightmare, nighthold, tomb, argus

i guess theres the mini raid

so the same amount actually?

[upper pasture]

Valor too?

But I guess that’s the mini raid?

[dense plover]

yes

might actually be more bosses in legion now i have to check

[deep pawn]

But generally people consider MSV, Heart of Fear and Terrace as one tier

[dense plover]

there are actually only 2 fewer bosses in legion

[dense plover]

dont think that matters as much for remix

[deep pawn]

Emerald Nightmare is the same tier as Night hold but it feels more disconnected still

[dense plover]

it is? no season split?

[deep pawn]

I don't think Legion did seasons the same

[dense plover]

well i wouldnt say nighthold and nightmare were the same tier since nighthold had the tier set

but nightmare didnt hvae tier set

[deep pawn]

But EN had no tier pieces and the same appearances as Nighthold

[dense plover]

nighthold was tuned to be harder than nightmare. I think thats important to consider ¯_(ツ)_/¯

[pulsar minnow]

EN came out at launch and then we got Nighthold in 7.1

granted the time between 7.0 and 7.1 was very briefd

[deep pawn]

Wasn't Nighthold 7.1.5? Legion was the weird expansion where raids unlocked on the .5s

[pulsar minnow]

it was

[uncut vault]

I honestly really preferred that narratively

Obviously wouldn’t happen anymore thanks to the seasonal format

But it let the “world” part of a patch have its own focus, and the raid to be a definitive conclusion to that patch plot

[green nacelle]

I see thanks ! And do we have an estimated arrival date for legion remix ?

[ember blaze]

check the map

[green nacelle]

It's not on it, hence the question

[thin warren]

it's estimated in fall, according to the fel color on the roadmap

late fall/early winter

https://wow.zamimg.com/uploads/screenshots/normal/1200713.jpg

[tropic trail]

Nice so there should be soon new raid in summer

[thin warren]

yes, ofcourse, season 3 will start end of august normally

[austere gazelle]

yeah I hope more toward the end than the beginning. Lots of people in holidays, that'll put some mess in roster to start the new season xD

[thin warren]

most likely, but some say before gamescom to, so we will see

[obtuse vine]

https://x.com/warcraft/status/1942267779211559344?s=46&t=xCU5PEs1yQwL9rCJRzfUXg

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft)

The War Within’s next chapter is almost here!

🔮 Ghosts of K’aresh Launches: August 5
⚔️ Season 3 Begins: August 12

X · Jul 7, 2025, 5:01 PM

[thin warren]

wooh! so fast!

[pulsar minnow]

They definitely want that raid ending out before Midnights announcement

Crazy how we’re basically finishing this expansion a little under a year after it released

[lavish raptor]

I think it'd be a year and a half if we count the unannounced 11.2.5 and 11.2.7 content

TWW released July/Aug 2024 iirc

[thin warren]

well, the story will be finished, it speaks of the epic conclusion

[lavish raptor]

yeah so a year then

watch midnight be like $80

Even though tww was literally a year shorter

[thin warren]

well, was thinking about that to, i hope the price is a bit lower then, but they probably argue that they have as much work with it as any other expansion

[warm topaz]

i wonder what happened with the Warband Campsite they showcase at Blizzcon

this one

[harsh mason]

If I'm not mistaken, Pandaria also ended after a year (and then there lays patch was a whole year 🗿

[thin warren]

[crude sigil]

yeah 399 days

[lavish raptor]

SoO had a chokehold

[pulsar minnow]

Well thankfully the roadmap looks like we’re getting prepatch at the beginning of winter. So a little less than 399 days :/

[lavish raptor]

remember SL patch length 💀

5.4 - The Siege of Orgrimmar -- 1 Year 1 Month 4 Days

6.2 - Fury of Hellfire - 1 Year 26 Days

7.3 - Shadows of Argus - 10 Months 18 Days

8.3 - Visions of N'Zoth - 10 Months 9 Days

3.3 - Fall of the Lich King - 10 Months 3 Days

4.3 - Hour of Twilight - 8 Months 29 Days

9.2 - Eternity's End - 8 Months 4 Days

9.1 - Chains of Domination - 7 Months 24 Days

9.0 - Shadowlands - 7 Months 6 Days

8.2 - Rise of Azshara - 6 Months 20 Days

[little hound]

They've 100% gotten better with content flow.

[crude sigil]

(sry, french name of the graph)

[harsh mason]

In the case of Pandaria, it's a bit of a tricky move, as technically, patches 5.1 and 5.3 could be referred to as 5.0.5 and 5.1.5). It would be more accurate to consider the seasons

[zealous sedge]

August 5th? Holy shit

[deep pawn]

Woo, 7 week PTRs beat the 8 week cadence!

We're getting story mode before the reveal!

[pulsar minnow]

Waiting for them to drop the full key art for ghosts of K’aresh

They did post this on some of the Warcraft socials though

[little hound]

Alleria so smol

[rain cave]

if anything she looks bigger if we actually think about how big this guy is xD

[lavish raptor]

he's probably far away

[dense plover]

They stated it was a handmade piece with art - it wasn’t a real campsite

[lavish raptor]

concept art so-to-say

[little hound]

I just realised..

https://tenor.com/view/xal'atath-xalatath-xal'atath-awakens-xal'atath-grin-xal'atath-warcraft-gif-5653760385507889562

[deep pawn]

I'm still stunned they are letting us get a hero vault before the raid opens

Someone's gonna get lucky

Or is m0 champ 4/8 in the vault?

[hard axle]

Ahh, that smirk! So cuuuutteeee

[zealous sedge]

I believe it’s 4/8 champ yes no hero track

11.2.5 internal build up

It’s wild how consistent they’ve been with releases. Good for Blizz. Although it’s making it hard for me to play other games 😂

I wonder if it’s just a symptom of the team having a well thought out long term plan/ goal or it’s just insane amounts of crunch all the time

[deep pawn]

They are supposedly well ahead of where we are internally

We were told they were building the TLT zones a year ago

[pulsar minnow]

Also, ghosts of K’aresh dropped on PTR in a really far ahead state compared to most ptr’s were used to

[deep pawn]

They crunched and cut themselves into a buffer

Which works great for a consistent cadence once set up

Like if 13.0 is already done not even another lockdown would delay it

[zealous sedge]

Winds of Mysterious Fortune applying to all cartel reps is such a huge W by the devs

[austere gazelle]

those rep should not be this long to up imo

they should be really fast because they are several of them

if this is part of the meta achievment I'll scream

[crude sigil]

I haved farmed all cartel reps any weeks since the beginning (maybe forget 1 or 2 quest). And I will be exalted with all of them wednesday ... Such a pain.

These rep need to be farmable with rare or need to be boosted by 50%

[austere gazelle]

more like 100% since you can only activate one per week

[crude sigil]

Yeah

[upper pasture]

It’s farmable with chett cards

[deep pawn]

yeah, but that requires alts or a massive grind

[upper pasture]

As usually is farming something?

There’s no limiting to how many chett cards one character can do a week but what your willing to do

[deep pawn]

I really hope the Broker cartels are a lot faster

[deep pawn]

There's a limit to when something goes from reasonable to degenerate and doing more than one chett card per character is one of them.

The cartel reps were horribly designed and should not have taken as long as they did.

[upper pasture]

They simply said it “should be” farmable, it is. Jesus fucking Christ dude

[thin warren]

Cartel reps were not made to get them all fast I guess, one for the mount you want, but not all. With the double rep they did it's relatively easy to do by just doing the weeklies

[upper pasture]

Yeah, it was pretty unreasonable and unrealistic before the buff now it’s just any other rep grind with an unlimited source for extra rep if you choose

Personally I think it was designed nicely because you get the “set” amount each week from the standard activities you’ve normally do but then the chett card system allowed for people who wanted to push for fast rep an avenue for it rather than just being capped at the “set” amount each week

[deep pawn]

My argument is the "set" amount is way to damn low, grinds should not take whole damn seasons and that's not even counting the paragon mounts

[upper pasture]

Yes well they did double it after what 5 weeks?

If you did nothing but the 3 “main” quests each week it would take 7 weeks for each cartel and that’s starting from zero. Of course this isn’t counting the WQs you can do to get rep once you side with your cartel that week and still no chett cards

Which is definitely more reasonable than the 14 weeks it took at launch of 11.1 lol

[deep pawn]

I think all 4 should have taken 10 weeks at most, the people who did every WQ but didn't farm Chett cards? They're hitting their last exalteds like this week 20 weeks into the season.

Again, not even counting the fact the flying mounts are all locked behind paragon

I also think the raid renown took way too damn long and I'm not sure if I find even the new one to be short enough

It's miserable to be done your primary goals for a season but still logging in weekly for some trivial content to continue grinds long after you'd prefer to be just done.

And who's to say they'll keep doing these exp events at the end of seasons

The fact it finally feels like an appropriate pace when quadrupled from the season start says a lot

[upper pasture]

There will always be the people who do it before the buff since they don’t want to wait and then those who will wait for the buff because “there will be a buff”. Of course there’s a third set of people who just don’t give a damn and will never hit friendly

Personally I’m glad to wash my hands of undermine and never go back there

[deep pawn]

I just want Blizzard to stop thinking there needs to be some near constant grind to keep you busy 52 weeks of the year

[upper pasture]

Unfortunately in a subbed based game we likely will never see it

[warm topaz]

good old artifact power

[lavish raptor]

They want user engagement

dumping a bunch of shit is how they think they'll get it

[warm topaz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSw8rW7fZ5c

new 3 chapter history!

[ember blaze]

they need to do more of that animated stuff they did a while back 🛌

[warm topaz]

the Alleria video pre TWW?

[ember blaze]

yes

they should learn a lil from league of legends and release more actiony cinematics... ☕

[harsh mason]

I mean, there's literally 135 minutes of text, which is a lot for animation))

[ember blaze]

what

[pulsar minnow]

Currently on the first chapter. Ky'veza and Locus Walker used to be close apparently

Pre-devouring war that is

[zealous sedge]

Oh this is exciting. Almost 2 hours of voiced content?

[deep pawn]

I can't do audio books much anymore. Did they give a text version again?

[zealous sedge]

There is a text version yeah

[pulsar minnow]

oh dang Ky'veza was Locus Walker's lover

[ember blaze]

whys that

[deep pawn]

Just hard for me to just sit and listen to stuff

[ember blaze]

thats why u do something else with it

like play wow!

sitting down and reading is harder for me to do 💀

[deep pawn]

nah, then I don't hear it

[ember blaze]

no new patch notes 🤔

[harsh mason]

Damn🗿

Bro clearly doesn't have a choice of girl

Unfortunately, he won't survive the last one.

[warm topaz]

Ky'veza is a really cool character, I hope we don't kill her in this delve

it reminds me to Elisande, idk why

[pulsar minnow]

I might be wrong

I thought he said his lover was ky’veza but his lover in the devouring war is Krysson. Ky’veza is just a close friend

I just pray they at least describe the appearance of the ethereals more before they became energy. They’re kind of avoiding it in this audio drama

[warm topaz]

is part of the music in the videos brand new?

i can't recognize some of the tracks

[pulsar minnow]

It took me halfway through the Audio to realize “Nari” is Ve’nari 😅

Another tidbit of lore. The twin suns of K’aresh had been devoured in Dimensius’ onslaught

The K’areshii really were just screwed

[lavish raptor]

i always hoped for the day Ve'nari would be referred to as "Nari"

its adorable lol

[warm topaz]

it's brand new music 100%

can't wait to 11.2 music omg

i imagine the music of the videos are part of 11.2

[pulsar minnow]

Ok so this audio drama thankfully helps organize the fall of K’aresh (shocking it’s like that was the point) really well

Quick bits of details I noticed, lacking some detail of course.

Locus Walker is a technomancer interested in the void. He’s brought to council on grounds of betraying his oath due to his new fascination. He’s also questioned on whether he’s right about the radiant song coming from the world soul.

Locus Walker is found in the streets that night and kidnapped and brought before the Ravel who initiate him to the cause. Throughout this process locus Walker is getting visions.

Dimensius shows up soon after and begins attacking. Locus Walker toils for months and finds a solution in the Reshii ribbons and erects the barriers. He doesn’t realize though that Dimensius will wait all of eternity if he has to. Locus Walker is elected leader of the Ravel by Ve’nari.

Over time it’s found the arcane energy is burning the skin off of the ethereals dubbed “the wasting.” It works similarly to Nightborne Withered but on steroids.

Ethereal wrappings are used to protect the ethereals from the arcane energy. Soon after it’s discovered that while the wasting is abated, the ethereals are becoming pure arcane. Problem is, the K’areshii are still trapped. They need to escape.

[pulsar minnow]

Last bit of details.

Salhadaar betrays the ravel alongside soulscribe claiming Locus Walker and company wanted the K’areshii to be wasted into ethereals. He also pronounces himself high king.

That’s when the barriers finally crack (presumably sabotaged by Salhadaar) and the void invades. Locus Walker cuts off from Krysson his lover and sends her off with Ky’veza to escape the riot.

His story ends there but continues in modern time alongside Alleria where they hunt a monster in telogrus rift. He demands Alleria kill it, but it speaks out in a familiar voice.

Alleria relents but the monster then threatens to kill them both, so she takes the shot. It’s then revealed that the creature was a twisted monstrous version of Locus Walkers former love Krysson. He consumes her void core and the story ends there.

[deep pawn]

Looks like build is tomorrow

[ionic terrace]

are you sure

[dense plover]

well i certainly wont say no to 3% more damage

[little hound]

https://tenor.com/view/bh187-justice-league-batman-mood-brood-gif-14855600461153137116

[deep pawn]

It's not 3% more, just physical and no class is pure physical anymore

And I got jebaited by the m+ testing window

[zealous sedge]

how long does ptr character copy typically take lol

[deep pawn]

The ptr notes, do you think we get a vault on the 12th or is it just two weeks combine for a vault on the 19th

[zealous sedge]

It is interesting... Im guessing 2 weeks combined

would be cool to get 2 rewards haha

[upper pasture]

we get a vault on the 12th credit can be earn on the week of the 5th but is limited due to not having much content to do. at least that's what it seems like

[zealous sedge]

Yeah that makes more sense this is just letting us know we get a great vault week 1

well techincailly week two but credit for week 1 you know what i mean

[upper pasture]

we don't, we earn towards the second week vault

[zealous sedge]

oh yes I see

[deep pawn]

It's vague to me. I can't tell if great vault reward available means we can open a vault on the 12th or not

Cause someone getting a random piece of hero tier from delves that week is funny

[upper pasture]

i mean if you can earn credit on the week of thte 5th why wouldn't you be able to open on the week of the 12th?

[deep pawn]

Cause being able to earn credit to hero track loot in the vault before the raid even opens seems off

[dense plover]

sorta makes sense when all of the raids become available with patch launch

[upper pasture]

yeah but the text seems very clear, wether or not there's a cap to what can be earn is yet to be seen, i wouldn''t be surprised if blizzard comes back and is like "oops we forgot week 1 vault can only earn up to champ"

[deep pawn]

They don't

First week is only m0, non bountiful delves, and world boss

[upper pasture]

then week two (when you open the vault) is everything else

[deep pawn]

If delves give hero vaults for +8 a lot of people are gonna high roll a hero track tier piece or weapon before doing the raid

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i dont think one piece of gear will be the end of the world

[upper pasture]

its one piec

[deep pawn]

Can already see the RWF types benching any char who didn't get hero tier in the vault haha

[dense plover]

i think they want to make sure people are playing the first week

[upper pasture]

i doubt that

[dense plover]

tier set probably wont be available from vault first week

thats my guess

[deep pawn]

You'd think they'd specify that type of stuff

[dense plover]

they probably will closer to launch

right now its a month out

[deep pawn]

Before this the vault when the raid opened was always the previous seasons

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1942992325006778662

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft)

Unravel the mystery, deny the void and fight against Dimensius.

Ghosts of K’aresh comes August 5th!

X · Jul 9, 2025, 5:00 PM

they shouldn't have posted that

[crude sigil]

better quality on youtube : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7oRmYqdqQE ^^

[rain cave]

conversation between 3 people with different void voice filters lmao

also

this is getting ridiculous 😭

[upper pasture]

I would not be lying if I said I gave a chuckle when the first thing on screen for her was her feet

[rain cave]

It's genuinely become her leitmotif

she announces her presence with a cunty foot show when she teleports in at just the right moment

quentin tarantino working at blizzard apparently

[lavish raptor]

leitmofeet

[zealous sedge]

new build

[glass flicker]

"You broke my dark heart, Alleria."

Yeah. :D

(Art by my friend Dumsies.)

[zealous sedge]

they must have changed hellcaller chests. I got my first 10 this week all 6 shard drops everything after that has been only one. unless ive been extremely unlucky. Ive done maybe 40 chests in the last hour so far

[deep pawn]

it's rng

oh, maybe just 1 every time is the change

that's better than rng 0-5

still should reset daily I feel

[zealous sedge]

ah its weird i just got a chest with 5

who knows haha

[upper pasture]

I’d be less mad if it was 1-5 and not 0-5 nothing feels worse than opening 3 chests and getting zero shards

[hard axle]

wait, what? 40 in the last hour? you can only get 3 at the top of every hour, how the hell are you getting 40 in one hour?

[dense plover]

undermine'

they spawn every 15 mins, and also when rares are killed that havent got the debuff that prevents them from spawning a goblin

[zealous sedge]

Yeah the undermine ones spawn super frequently I got 120 shards today after like 3 loops between dornogal and undermine

[ember blaze]

so is this their true forms 🤔

reminds me of esquie from exp 33 🤔

[dreamy dove]

They looks like slenderman holding hand to a child LMAO

[glass flicker]

Executioner Smough!

[rain cave]

I can see where the brokers get their aesthetic from

2 different races, same planet?

looks stylized though, surely they weren't just faceless gold golems lmao

[pulsar minnow]

The K’areshii had faces with eyes and mouths etc we know that for sure

It’s stated multiple times and is a very important part of the audio drama

As in the eyes were the last things to go for the ethereals faces as they wasted away. Locus Walker not being able to see his girlfriend Krysson’s eyes anymore was a real big hit to his morale

[dense plover]

i think this is more like their armor if it isnt based on their current forms

[untold fox]

Neighborhood blue post , oh well

been waiting for something outside related ever since housing was announced

[pulsar minnow]

I don’t know if it’s been covered but are the neighborhoods completely instanced off from the rest of the world, or can we just walk there from orgrimmar or stormwind

[warm topaz]

tbd iirc

the lead designer didn't know the answer when Tali asked about it i think

[clear apex]

They likely are since it says they'll create new ones

Can't have 100 neighborhoods existing outside of stormwind and not be instanced

Imagine it'll be like garrisons or ff14 neighborhoods

[pulsar minnow]

The question is more so will it be apart of the open world

Or will I have to go through a portal to it

[clear apex]

That's why i said garrison. Maybe we'll see it but it'll phase when you're over it

I worry some about endeavors. I see issues with people buying housing but not engaging then some people missing out on rewards

Happens in 14. Bought houses just for clout and no one using them

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Ranger_Elvira/status/1943333692296040820/photo/1

Dark Ranger Elvira (@Ranger_Elvira)

Is this a Midnight tease?? I wish she comes back with her red eyes! "She Has Returned" @Warcraft #Warcraft

X · Jul 10, 2025, 3:37 PM

lool

[upper pasture]

Yeah but you can move neighborhoods so if you get placed in a dead public one you just move no?

And if it’s a dead guild one…you uhhhh find a guild of like minded players

[clear apex]

True and thankfully that's an option

[thin warren]

it says the endevour is dyanmicly harder or easier depending on the players tha tlive there, but it's not mentioned what will be done about inactive ones

[upper pasture]

Kinda neat that charter housing “private” non guilded neighborhoods have a limit of 50 plots but true guild neighborhoods have no limit and will just create a new attached instance for more housing if required

[thin warren]

i wonder hwo that will work, so a guild of 500 players get 10 neighborhoods that are kinda connected?

[upper pasture]

One would assume a neighborhood that has a high count of inactive players would see their active players leave because why would you want to do the work of 50 players if you could find a better neighborhood out there?

[thin warren]

true

[upper pasture]

Probably some zone in then phasing tech? Idk how if we phase into the zone and it would have boundaries for zoning out so idk if neighborhoods will “fly near” and get phased in, probably will be a portal that we have to go through then the zone can scale up or down depending on guild size? I’m interested in how long that housing renown track is gonna take and what all is on there

[clear apex]

All i know is, the more decor the better. Hope we've got decent limits on it. Eso and ff14 kinda suck with low limits

[thin warren]

we will see, i'm sure it's for a nice group of players who would love this, but i'm happy that it's completely seperated, so if you don't do it, you don't miss much except the decoration thingies

[upper pasture]

Pretty sure the known limit right now is like 100k

[clear apex]

Decor means a lot to people who love housing

[upper pasture]

So way more than FF

[clear apex]

I think that was a points system

Like a chair might cost 10 points

Out of 10k

I'm only going off what i heard from Taliesin

[upper pasture]

Yes, it’s a point system, however small things have small numbers big things have bigger numbers however I’m pretty sure they said nothing is really that “expensive”

But I can say with almost 100% certainty that it will be way more than 400 items lol

[clear apex]

I agree

Since we can have a lot of rooms, 700 or 1000 items sounds good.
I know when you want smaller items for clutter that adds up quickly

I've ran out of space in so many builds due to that

[upper pasture]

Yeah but a lot of our smaller items are literally low point cost, I mean we won’t really know until it’s here but the player testers said nothing was really worth a lot of points