beta-ptr-spoilers

[deep pawn]

Fire, Earth, Lightning, Wolf, and Ice shaman have a million other options

[cosmic beacon]

I’d take an overused theme than a terrible water set

[deep pawn]

I'm gonna guess the pony tail is meant to hang down, I like the set

I don't know, I like it

[cosmic beacon]

Unless there’s any changes to shaman it’ll probably the last push I need to make the change to pres instead of rsham

[deep pawn]

Gives me a set to use the watery artifact appearances with

[pulsar minnow]

Hm. What if Xal’Atath is the crystal

What if she landed as a void crystal

[deep pawn]

I don't think that fits at all

[pulsar minnow]

Then when we released her from the prison aligns to around the time it started going voidy

We know light and void beings swap between the two constantly. Naaru most notably

[deep pawn]

it started the exact moment the sword stabbed Azeroth

[deep pawn]

We didn't release Xal'atath til months if not a year later.

[silent urchin]

the first one happened when the sword hit. Xal'atath seems to be trying to influence the current changes, which are ramping up in danger

[deep pawn]

It's left to us to learn how a Fel Sword managed to cause a void infection I guess.

[pulsar minnow]

Is that said?

[dense plover]

this being an ARTC means it has the fancy models

[dense plover]

no

[deep pawn]

yes

[dense plover]

source

[deep pawn]

this text here

[uncut vault]

Well, assuming it was fel

[silent urchin]

#beta-ptr-spoilers message this one

[uncut vault]

Sargeras' red stuff isn't exactly the fel we've ever seen before or since

[pulsar minnow]

Gotcha

Ty

[dense plover]

huh ok

yeah i stand corrected

could be azeroth was hurt

[silent urchin]

there is A LOT of plot going on in this zone

[dense plover]

i mean - azeroth is at least partially corrupted at this point

[deep pawn]

We already know Azeroth was hurt.

Azerite is literally her blood

we fought an entire war over the stuff

[tropic trail]

Who is Beledar?

[zealous sedge]

It’s the crystal

[pulsar minnow]

The giant ass crystal

[uncut vault]

Well, we fought the start of a war

and then subsequently forgot about it entirely :P

because Jailer plot

[pulsar minnow]

The void popped in around BFA too

[tulip sun]

Khadgar I'm assuming

But also like. Where is Vereesa

[silent urchin]

Seems likely, yeah

[deep pawn]

I suppose it's possible N'zoth's foreknowledge of the stabbing could have set plans in motion to take advantage of it before his death.

[zealous sedge]

Maybe Khadgar really is missing and went to go find her

Just please for the love of god don’t bring sylvanas*** back for the sake of reuniting the sisters

[deep pawn]

The naming of the city being Mereldar puts the Arathi Empire being post the Troll Wars but that was obvious regardless

https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Mereldar

She's a person who existed 3000 years ago

and was the first Human to hear the light

Wowpedia speculates the vision she saw as Naaru

unless Chronicles makes it clearer that it was 5 Naaru she saw

I could see this Western Empire having leadership go instead to one of those who's forefathers saw the original visions if that's what lead them to Avaloren to begin with

The Sea of Storms is a new name for us, but we do know that going too far west or east into the Veiled Sea or the Forbidding Sea leads to a wall of storms

[silent urchin]

goddammit

[zealous sedge]

So he ded

[deep pawn]

He's captured like we suspected from other datamined stuff

The story recap says "sacrificed himself"

[zealous sedge]

Why the man always getting captured

[deep pawn]

We know he ain't dead cause the writers have clearly said he and Alleria are the main characters this expansion.

[tulip sun]

Yeah I doubt he ded ded

[deep pawn]

Like Faerin said, he may enjoy not having to make decisions and what better way than as a prisoner haha

[zealous sedge]

True

[deep pawn]

"Tell me what to do Knaifu!"

[silent urchin]

Orwena being the leader of the friendly weird elf faction in azj'kahet, I think?

lmao, some dev had fun

zan-delv-ari gives a quest to go test the delves

[deep pawn]

that... seems like a fast story

but lots of missing cutscenes

I'm down if it's fewer quests more talking

[pulsar minnow]

Rest of it’s probably for endgame

[silent urchin]

If its like the other zones there were a lot of side quests after the msq

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna bet Anduins capture by xal atath is gonna be a reverse of the jailer

[silent urchin]

there are definitely some I haven't done

[pulsar minnow]

Rather than just letting himself being controlled again, and he “learns when to fight” like Varian told him

Boom, becomes a Paladin, pops wings. Easy epic moment for a cinematic

[zealous sedge]

Alas, finally logged on, no alpha

[dense plover]

went to turn in Zero out Xerosh

now anduin is gone!

wtf

i thought it was fixed

i hope i dont have to make ANOTHER character

[silent urchin]

... why is it saying my character is locked now I was just relogging to fix a camera issue

[dense plover]

i got through the broken quest and the followup is broken

jesus this alpha build is a mess

[silent urchin]

It felt pretty smooth to me after that, but I think a lot of these things seem like they can break the more people go through them

[deep pawn]

Anduin being a paladin would make me hate the expansion

You don't have to be a paladin to fight

[silent urchin]

yeah paladins need to stop stealing priests >:(

Paladins are NOT an upgrade from priests!

[deep pawn]

The light returning to Shalamayne will be the moment enough

[silent urchin]

hold up that's new

[dense plover]

yeah i cant even log back into my hallowfall character

this fucking sucks

[deep pawn]

1-5 players likely refers to follower dungeons

[dense plover]

how the fuck am i supposed to test if i cant even play through the ZONE

[deep pawn]

I guess if 2 people enter a dungeon it's automatically a follower one

[dense plover]

the ridiculous non-bug alpha shit this alpha is so much worse than any of the others

[deep pawn]

Might be just that character. Someone clearly just played the entire msq.

[dense plover]

i have to make my build AGAIN

and restart AGAIN'

thats the third time THIS BUILD

i had to do it 4 times last build

they fucking broke something with character loading

[silent urchin]

Yeah. Needing to make a ton of new characters is a bit annoying for sure

and right now questzertauren is bugged and you can't properly start the new zone

can get summoned, but won't give you the quests or set level

[deep pawn]

Alpha's gonna alpha

So we know holy fire exists but this is our first time seeing the light's power being focused entirely around fire eh?

I am interested in learning what the original flame was and how they've kept it going for this long. I imagine it's a lot like the Olympic torch.

[silent urchin]

it sure sounds like it

[jade basalt]

Faerin apparently had managed to save a few embers of the holy flame, when they crashed into Hallowfall

[silent urchin]

one of the npcs spoke about how Faerin protected embers, and how that was special

[deep pawn]

Yeah, I'm guessing every ship or at least important ones like this one carries some of the flame probably taken from the capital.

It's a holy analog to the Well of Eternity which might be important

The eternal flame may actually have power if it's not just a representation of the empires constancy

[silent urchin]

I am.. quite curious about the emperor

[deep pawn]

He's not a Lothar but could be related to Mereldar

[silent urchin]

He seems like a good candidate for a "too much light is also bad" character

[deep pawn]

If he is that makes him Tirisfallian

[silent urchin]

there are already some fanatics up at the priory in hallowfall, although that was what I was in the middle of going through so not sure exactly whats going on

[deep pawn]

As much as he can be after generations of genetics

Tyr's magic is rather holy in general so he could be important too

I don't want to take a cut off military expedition as representative of an entire culture though

[uncut vault]

Hey, I'd gladly take it off your hands :P

[deep pawn]

Blizzard knows you do enough datamining /j

[silent urchin]

I guess everything being broken and it being 4am means I should stop for now

[deep pawn]

I feel a tad bad I'm more excited for the lore implications outside of Khaz Algar than I am for Hallowfall itself

[silent urchin]

I do find it kinda funny that half the zone is talking about xalatath and we don't see her at all (maybe once in a cutscene?). But she does seem very interested in the crystal, or at least the shadow effects, and it seems likely it's related to whatever the khaz algar titan facility is

https://twitter.com/TheRedShirtGuy/status/1786220410532757600 apparently the timeline for arathi arriving in hallowfall has changed (or at least, been fixed on the site)

Ian Bates 💙 (@TheRedShirtGuy) on X

Another thought: the official website originally said the Arathi had been there for centuries before their entry was completely rewritten, so it seems like there was a major rewrite of their story pre-alpha. Those kind of big pivots have a mixed history of working out.

Twitter · May 3, 2024, 2:25 AM

we weren't all remembering wrong

although blizzcon interviews did always imply there was an empire out there and hallowfall was more recent than them leaving eastern kingdoms

[jade basalt]

Most likely the website was a typo, because it was quickly removed

[deep pawn]

Probably cause someone reminded them the Arathi empire has been gone for like 2k years

[dense plover]

i was able to get into my character

so beledar going dark isnt implemented yet

im kinda disappointed by that

[jade basalt]

It is

[dense plover]

it is implemented?

why didnt it go dark at the quest?

is it random? is it scheduled?

like, when you leave the airship area

[jade basalt]

Yeah the problem is it's scheduled or something and it's synced for everyone, so it's not synced with the story

[dense plover]

ah

do you know how often?

[jade basalt]

Really breaks immersion to be honest, it was already dark for 10 minutes before I got the quest where it goes dark, and now it's Light but the story is clearly happening in darkness. And now it's supposed to be dark but it's bright as a sun https://i.imgur.com/fkYhuVV.png

[dense plover]

yeah

i havent seen it go dark

ive been reporting it throughout the questline where its supposed to be dark and isnt

[jade basalt]

It hasn't gone dark in quite a while so perhaps they stopped it

[dense plover]

oh so maybe its bugged?

[deep pawn]

Is there a moment the skybox goes from painted to 3d?

[dense plover]

ITS HAPPENING

[jade basalt]

@dense plover just went dark now https://i.imgur.com/R7WJXPs.png

[dense plover]

i know!

its not exactly dark tbh

i was hoping it would get darker

[jade basalt]

I'm not sure how they can solve this to be honest, if it's synced across all players then it breaks story immersion, but if it's individual then people wouldn't see the same things/mobs/phase

[dense plover]

phase the zone to certain story points until you beat the zone campaign

[jade basalt]

Ideally it should be individual up until you finish the story then it should sync for everyone

Yeah

[dense plover]

it could just be synced and the transition can be in cutscenes

so it stays dark until it phases to the light version

also

nothing else seems to change in the zone....

i was hoping mobs would change

or lighting brightness

[uncut vault]

they have the ability to apply weather effects individually, as shown by the weather toys

but no clue if that would affect the crystal too

[dense plover]

story phases of the zone that are day or night locked would work tho

i think the transition between light and shadow is too fast too

[jade basalt]

https://i.imgur.com/n6HMOgk.png

Apparently people saw it go yellow but mine is still dark

I might be in a different phase since I finished the campaign?

[dense plover]

mine is light

i saw it go light

so it looks like phasing is the intention

it just isnt working right

[proper palm]

Ok adios my main paladin since WOTLK i'm a priest now

[deep pawn]

I like the paladin set haha

[pulsar minnow]

who cares about the paladin tier set when this exists

we dont need a tier set when this banger exists

[ember blaze]

crazy that a world set is better

[jade basalt]

Have you seen every other Outdoor set? They're consistently phenomenal, at or above tier set level

[proper palm]

Yep

But i love Naaru in wow

[ember blaze]

eh, depends on who youre comparing it to

[dense plover]

so - havent quite finished the zone

i like the story a LOT

i like the zone

they need to fix the day/night sync, and night needs to have unique enemy spawns and events

[jade basalt]

I think it does at the Veneration Grounds? Not entirely sure given the cycle is weird

But they def said that the zone will have different events and mobs based on day or night yeah

[pulsar minnow]

Not sure if this was posted yet but

It’s in the city of threads apparently

[jade basalt]

Last week yeah

[dense plover]

looks like nzoth

but could be the "5th old god"

which MIGHT be Xal?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

i assume the big gold thing is going to get a name eventually

[jade basalt]

Alleria seems to say Xal isn't an Old God https://i.imgur.com/LfJc0cD.png

[worn crown]

Great line! - "A survivor from the depths of time."

[zealous sedge]

Theories on what it means? Was Xal here before the Old Gods took hold? Was she the nascent world soul of Azeroth that’s been warped and corrupted? But the old gods took her power so she’s been scheming for millennia to retake it? Might be reading into it too much, but it’s just a theory.

Or maybe not the world soul, but a powerful caretaker/ guardian of said world soul. Tried to fight back against the old gods but lost and had to sacrifice herself to keep the world soul from being fully corrupted. Hence why she was sealed away in the blade. But now she is released and hates the titans because they did not help her in her time of need.

[tropic trail]

She got out from black hole 🕳️ so I think she is something like opposite to Na’aru

The way she looks like can be deceiving cause she possessed the dead body of some elf

[harsh mason]

This is definitely not a Nzot,

It's either Xal (which I don't believe in), or a powerful spawn of the void (below the level of the old gods, but above the faceless ones)

[crystal pond]

Could it be that xal is actually one of native azerothians before old gods came but then she turned to old gods and void and she ended up here?

Just a crap theory but if

Like she was disappointed in azeroth because azeroth at that time was wild af and void is like "hey we cool we will take you to the great future"

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/TaliesinEvitel/status/1786216739493085643?t=oOLr-GMVU0cC_uOP9ZEbUw&s=33

Taliesin & Evitel (@TaliesinEvitel) on X

I mean.

Come on.

Twitter · May 3, 2024, 2:10 AM

this is amazing

[blazing granite]

@livid walrus Say, are there any updates to those short descriptions for Azjkahet/max level stuff?

[subtle oar]

She is Dimentius' Herald, so no, she's not related to Azeroth.

[blazing granite]

Anduin, Faerin and Alleria were a great trio in this zone. Though I find a bit jarring how it takes about a few hours or a day at max to make someone a friend in current expansions (Taelia refers to Anduin as such only after a not-too-long visit to Stormwind, Shandris befriending Lilian only after one questline, same with Faerin and Anduin/Alleria)

[silent urchin]

you do show up in the middle of a crisis and kinda save them

although that's also pretty much the standard story

[livid walrus]

What do you mean?

[blazing granite]

https://imgur.com/He9po40
Like this one that you've sent, but for the next zones

[livid walrus]

ohh i will check

they remove them lol

[blazing granite]

bummer

[livid walrus]

for the better

[harsh mason]

Blizzard: hide all cinematics and context so that there are no spoilers

Also blizzard:

Maybe they decided that most of the players don't read anything, lol

[pulsar minnow]

They can’t even manage to not spoil the subsequent patch with every new patch

We had 10.1 leaked in alpha, then we had 10.2 leaked in 10.1

Now we got the goblin raid spoiled too

Super interested how undermine is gonna correlate with everything going on this expansion. Sure it fits the theme of being underground, but how is Xal Atath gonna fit in?

[harsh mason]

I don't think that after the events in nerub'ar palace, the onk will appear often until the last major patch. Like, we already know she's going to play a role in next expansions. From the point of view of the plot, the Nerubians are the basis of her army and by defeating them, we will "discard" Xal for a while. So the undermine may not be directly related to it.

But this is my opinion, just a theory

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah no but there’s literally a datamined “goblinraid” item

[harsh mason]

Plot-wise, nerubar raid reminds me of nighthold

[harsh mason]

I know. I wrote that it might just not be related to Xal.

[pulsar minnow]

Well if we’re getting a whole raid with goblins as one of the major patches of the expansions, it would be incredibly ridiculous for Xal to not be involved

[harsh mason]

The raid may be related to Kazalgar technologies

[upper pasture]

It would be pretty funny if they are just using “goblinraid” as place holder text to actually not spoil the real theme but who knows

[warm topaz]

What if... it is a mini raid? 👀

[deep pawn]

We're probably finally dealing with our missing greedy Trade Prince.

Gallywix was evil already, he'd make a deal with the void.

People will rage if Undermine is just a single instance or patch zone.

I will say Undermine feels more mega dungeony that raid worthy

[pulsar minnow]

That’s what I had a feeling of tbh

Undermine being a forbidden reach equivalent and a mini raid attached would be awesome

[austere gazelle]

undermine as a dungeon / patch zone is as a let down as Nazjatar

[winged dagger]

If they are following the last few patches,
Main 4 zones+ 8 dungeons +raid
Mini zone
New full zone+raid
Mega dungeon
New full zone+raid

I could see undermine as a... "Reclaiming of gilneaes" type of content. Since it's a city...

[warm topaz]

no way

undermine is just a questline

[harsh mason]

I wouldn't mind if they replaced the mega dungeon with either a mini raid (considering that DotI could pass for a mini raid), or just 2 new dungeons

[deep pawn]

See? Lol

[tepid fiber]

If the Undermine is just a questline there's gonna be a riot lmao

[deep pawn]

Also, Blizzard grow some courage and kill like Aethas or something

How much of a god damn idiot ball does everyone have to hold to buy Drenden suddenly being alive

Especially since the god damn effing legion invasion was not that long ago and Dreadlords are still a problem.

Someone claiming to be a presumed dead Archmage should be subject to imprisonment til identity fully confirmed

[pulsar minnow]

khadgar aint enough?

[deep pawn]

We're not even sure he's dead and him going out like a chump cause of an idiot ball moment would be horrendous writing

[tepid fiber]

To be fair, Khadgar was also long-presumed dead

[pulsar minnow]

how about we save judgement until we actually see whats going on with drenden

because supposedly he shows up in 10.2.7

we know Kalec stepped down to focus on being an aspect again, so drenden might have returned to fill the spot

And still- they're destroying Dalaran and a lot of the people in it too. a lot of the archmages are probably dead

the kirin tor is basically gone as a result

[deep pawn]

Except it's Xalatath, and I'm sorry that is the worst writing of all

Like not a single person should trust someone suddenly claiming to be someone long missing in this universe.

We had an entire expansion about the legion infiltrating both damn factions.

At least the legion was impersonating someone alive like Shaw

[pulsar minnow]

okay but we've head alleria and turalyon missing for years then mysteriously returning on a damn spaceship

[uncut vault]

Yeah I feel like it would have been better if she impersonated one of the existing ones at least

[pulsar minnow]

if there's proper context given, it could work

[uncut vault]

I don’t think anyone would be too torn up if Archmage Karlain was secretly dead lol

but it would be a less obvious twist because he’s been consistently present for dalaran stuff

Instead of “here, this character who hasn’t shown up in 15 years is back! Totally not suspicious at all!”

[pulsar minnow]

I think that runs into the issue of "they were ___ the whole time?" which also has been a bit contrived at this point with all the retcons

[livid walrus]

Yea..even if he was alive but popped up from no where after ages of being MIA

[pulsar minnow]

I'd like to imagine during the dark heart prologue we find drenden and he helps us out in uncovering more about the Harbingers identity, establishing trust first

[uncut vault]

Doesn’t really need to be a “the whole time” thing

Just that she killed him recently after returning to Azeroth to get in on the Kirin tor’s plans

And I think a plot like that is less frustrating when it’s someone that i doubt 99% of the playerbase could even name off the top of their head lol, let alone what their story is beyond “Kirin tor council of six member”

[deep pawn]

In rational world Drenden would be imprisoned until his identity magically confirmed somehow. I dunno, it was my worst fear when I learned Drenden was back after 20 years and then the Dalaran destruction was discovered

Breaks suspension of disbelief

[tepid fiber]

It's very rational to always assume guilt before innocence, that is how a rational society functions

[deep pawn]

Does our society have evil shape changers?

[tepid fiber]

Yes

[pulsar minnow]

Also, maybe they'll retcon it. Maybe Khadgar has had contact with Drenden for a while now. We know he's calling basically everyone to Dalaran for every tiny piece of information he can find

So basically, Xal'atath uses Khadgar's desparate search for the Harbinger to get into Dalaran and destroy it

If Drenden just appears and goes "hey guys I want to be on the council of 6 again!" and thats it? Then yeah I'll think its stupid.

[tepid fiber]

Plus it makes a lot more sense than basically treating everyone like it's John Carpenter's The Thing. That would be such a drag on storytelling and we wouldn't get anything done if we locked down someone just because they haven't been onscreen

[deep pawn]

Off screen and presumed dead in wc3 are different beasts

[tepid fiber]

Literally Khadgar

[deep pawn]

He had Naaru and hundreds of sons of Lothar vouching for him having been alive and leading Shattrath

[tepid fiber]

Naaru have vouched for dreadlords in the past, so still works

[deep pawn]

I'm gonna agree that Karlain would have worked so much better than Drenden who just stretches plausibility too far

[pulsar minnow]

yes, and that's why if they write it as though Drenden has been alive but on his own since Dalaran's invasion, it would be fine

[deep pawn]

Works slightly better in lore but doesn't as a reader

It's still a too obvious twist that feels bad

[tepid fiber]

tbf we're also missing the whole story

[pulsar minnow]

or, and my hope is. It's actually archmage drenden. He isn't dead, but while out in the field investigating the dark heart he's slain and replaced

there's so many different ways this could work

[tepid fiber]

Making emotional snap judgements now while it's incomplete can potentially taint our perception of the full picture once it's out

[pulsar minnow]

I really wish this drenden reveal hadn't happened

our insight into beta/alpha before launch always makes the lore delivery so odd bc blizz doesn't really hide stuff in development all that well

[tepid fiber]

I definitely agree that certain reveals can be pretty bad too early

But, at the same time, playtesting needs to happen

[pulsar minnow]

also- super off topic. Does anyone have that ss of the dialogue line from Locus-Walker about the Radiant Song

[pulsar minnow]

oh for sure. I just meant more that I wish Drenden hadn't been named in the chapter summary

[deep pawn]

Just for me, the moment the Archmage Drenden cube was seen it was immediately suspicious and I hoped they wouldn't go such an obvious route

[tepid fiber]

This one?

[pulsar minnow]

Yeah that one. Thanks

I think there might have been another but idk if it was locus walker

something about the Radiant song, and certain voices having already joined the chorus

I was curious which forces have already joined the song and which are missing

[deep pawn]

I still hope they provide a good reason why everyone's forgotten BfA and the fact champions of Azeroth walk around with hearts full of power in their damn banks and have spoken to her speaker plenty of times.

Maybe the fact they write each expansion for people who have never played older ones is biting them in the butt

[upper pasture]

did lore wise our hearts get depleted after nzoth beam?

[tepid fiber]

Writing new expansions with storylines that require previous knowledge has also been biting them in the ass. This is the same problem that every IP has though

[upper pasture]

since it was channeled through our necklace?

[tepid fiber]

Yeah, we used them on N'Zoth

[deep pawn]

Not fully depleted at least

[tepid fiber]

And we didn't speak to Azeroth, Magni did

[upper pasture]

isn't that why/how they turned it off for SLs

lorewise at least

[deep pawn]

They turned off in SL only because we weren't on Azeroth

They never gave a reason for why they didn't work in df

[deep pawn]

That's what I said

[tepid fiber]

I was responding to what you said, not what you edited. My bad

[uncut vault]

the heart really needed a final bit like what the artifacts got, its still so baffling they didnt do that

[upper pasture]

i'm like 90% sure there was a part of it where it was like "yeah, that beam thing screwed up the necks, sorry"

[uncut vault]

have us go to the heart chamber, return all the azerite we collected back to Azeroth and that completes the healing process

[tepid fiber]

That's what I thought

[deep pawn]

I don't recall that at all. All you get was "Azeroth can't reach you" in the Shadowlands

All the heart of Azeroth did was act as a channel for the forge of reorigination.

[tepid fiber]

My takeaway is that we used it. As in it's used-up due to the process

[uncut vault]

the final cutscene of BfA has us holding it up all empowered and happy in the heart chamber

so we didn't, sadly

[tepid fiber]

Hm 🤔

Well it would be nice if they clarified it a bit better but then someone would scream and cry retcon

Regardless of what happens, someone won't be happy

[uncut vault]

They've needed to address azerite in general for years anyways, because we still don't really know if it's deactivated again or not

and it's referenced in Hallowfall

[tepid fiber]

I think it's implied that Azerite is just a thing that exists, considering Gallywix got his hands on some pre-BFA

[deep pawn]

The oil they use may be Azerite

Gallywix discovered it after the sword stab

Thus the same day Beledar started turning dark

[tepid fiber]

He discovered it while still on Kezan digging for Kaja'mite?

[deep pawn]

My understanding he discovered it in Silithus unless the BfA book says otherwise

[tepid fiber]

At the very least it's dated in his early life events pre-Cataclysm

[tepid fiber]

Before the Storm chapter 3

[deep pawn]

It could be a book thing I never read

[uncut vault]

It exists, but it goes inert when the planet isn't in danger

we never really got the "okay azerite isn't active anymore" moment

[tepid fiber]

Gotcha

[uncut vault]

and then we saw it still active when the Jailer began succing Azeroth up into Zereth Mortis

[deep pawn]

So he discovered Azerite likely from Khaz Algar long long ago and it didn't do anything until the stabbing?

[tepid fiber]

I think getting attacked from the realm of Death would also qualify as the planet being in danger moment but yeah I follow you

[uncut vault]

The book implies that Gallywix kind of caused the Cataclysm, funnily

that their digging too deep in Kezan is what triggered Deathwing to wake up

[tepid fiber]

Not from Khaz Algar, from underneath Kezan while digging for Kaja'mite

[deep pawn]

Kezan is like next door to Khaz Algar

[uncut vault]

It's pretty far haha

Kezan's right near the maelstrom, Khaz Algar is between Uldum and Pandaria

[tepid fiber]

Kezan is much closer to the Maelstrom, still in the South Seas region

[deep pawn]

If the oil the Arathi and maybe the Earthen use is Azerite related would explain the goblin raid

[tepid fiber]

Eagle/Gryphon person allied race coming to get your oil when

[deep pawn]

But regardless, the writing feels like it's being written for people who have no idea what happened before and that makes everything feel wrong to players who lived those expansions

Especially if the worst case writing for Drenden comes true haha

Khadgar didn't come to Argus with us did he?

[tepid fiber]

They have to do that so it's accessible to new/returning players who don't want to recap ALL of that context, while still rewarding those that do. It's a tight rope that any IP has to walk when creating new content, especially for games. The World Soul Saga is also supposed to be it's own contained storyline, and needing to have previous storyline knowledge to follow along and engage would defeat the point of a new contained storyline

[deep pawn]

FF14 i feel does it right with regards to story.

Lets them write much better long term plots

[tepid fiber]

He did, on the Vindicaar

[deep pawn]

Then he definitely spoke with Magni

[tepid fiber]

Khadgar does know of Magni's visions, yes

[deep pawn]

Just makes the fact it takes us til the first zone or something to go speak with Magni feel weird

[uncut vault]

not only does he know magni, he was our intro to Magni too in Legion

he and the player are the first people Magni tells about Azeroth being a titan

[deep pawn]

Even Nobbel is confused as to why the main characters are acting dumb

[dense plover]

When did they act dumb?

Did I miss something?

[silent urchin]

I think it's the "Why didn't they go straight to magni and ask what was up with azeroth" thing

even though we haven't really seen anyones initial reactions, the content of what the voices are saying, or exactly when magni buggers off cause he lost his connection

[dense plover]

I mean, I think part of it is - didn’t magni disappear after sealing away Nzoth in the dagger?

I wouldn’t be surprised if he has been hearing whispers and that’s part of why Azeroth stopped speaking to him

Secondly, if everyone is hearing it, and Magni isn’t showing up like he did in BfA, then maybe Magni isn’t the person to look for

[silent urchin]

I'm not really sure. We haven't checked in with him but I thought he was still meant to be helping with the WOONS

[dense plover]

Last time this happened, he came to us remember?

So if he isn’t coming to us, the default reaction could be “must not be related to Magni”

And then we do check on Magni at the start of the expac

Hell, for all we know it might be part of 10.2.7 and is just on the alpha

In which case the complaints are super dumb

[deep pawn]

It's mostly the cutscene where Jaina and Khadgar aren't sure what the voice is, and the expansion cutscene where Thrall doesn't know either.

[dense plover]

Especially since 10.2.7 is dalaran focused and the Magni stuff happens before that I think since he was on dalaran with us when it explodes

[dense plover]

But Magni can’t hear her

So even if it is her, he wouldn’t know

We don’t know when the Magni check in happens but it happens before we go to Khaz Algar

[deep pawn]

I don't remember that being established, and we know he hears her in the expansion opening scenario.

He doesn't go all dull until after Dalaran crashes.

[clear apex]

What if they weren't viewing azeroth as a being so having a voice attached is confusing to them?

*unless i missed them actually knowing that the planet was alive in that way

[dense plover]

Not true - he is in dalaran before that

[lone mantle]

Xal'atath is obstructing the link. You must defeat her and restore it!

[dense plover]

He gets brought to dalaran after going unconscious

Which happens in a short scenario

But that happens before we go to Khaz Algar

[deep pawn]

He doesn't go dull until after no? I thought we had a moment of him shiny in the first zone

[dense plover]

Nope

He is dull from the start of Khaz Algar

Pretty sure he is dull in the scenario even

He is brought back to Dalaran after falling unconscious then

[deep pawn]

Okay so it's him being overloaded the song that breaks the connection but it's enough for him to hear Khaz Algar

[dense plover]

No

He doesn’t hear Azeroth - she won’t speak with him, he tries to commune and is overwhelmed but he was dull before that

[deep pawn]

Which quest before this established Magni as not hearing Azeroth anymore?

[dense plover]

The scenario

That’s the first we see of Magni

We visit him in the chamber of heart

That’s before we go to Khaz Algar

[deep pawn]

You're assuming he's dull before going unconscious, or was the dialog datamined or something

[dense plover]

It was in the scenario

He had the dull version of his model

[deep pawn]

A scenario we haven't done...

[dense plover]

It was playable first build

Wowhead had an article and videos

[deep pawn]

Okay then. My understanding was the alpha started right after the crash I thought

[dense plover]

No

This quest is before that

https://www.wowhead.com/news/the-radiant-cry-the-war-within-questline-story-spoilers-338772

“Jaina: People are experiencing visions of a "Radiant Song" all across Azeroth. We have reason to believe it's a warning of some kind.
Jaina: Meet me in Silithus. Perhaps Azeroth's Speaker can shed some light on what this warning might mean.”

This is why I’m confused

They literally go to check with Magni

He falls unconscious

They don’t get their answer as a result

[deep pawn]

So basically Magni has been sulking since BfA and that's why he's hiding, but gets enough of a connection to hear Khaz Algar.

[dense plover]

“As we arrive at Magni's camp in Silithus, we're assaulted by a vision ourselves, and reconvene with Jaina, Thrall, and surprisingly, Anduin Wrynn, who has finally resurfaced after his disappearance at the end of Shadowlands. You can also talk to Anduin about his disappearance here.”

This is before we go to Dalaran

Or at least before Dalaran leaves for Khaz Algar

So it might be in 10.2.7 or pre patch

[deep pawn]

Nah, that's the expansion launch quests

[dense plover]

We don’t know

Remember that the dalaran teleport quest for legion was pre patch but also part of the launch quests

[deep pawn]

Someone literally posted the recap summary earlier today

[dense plover]

Magni has to be unconscious long enough for this to matter

It’s very possible he goes unconscious in 10.2.7 and then the rest happens after

[deep pawn]

I doubt he goes unconscious until 11.0

[dense plover]

It would make the dialogue make more sense

[deep pawn]

We'd have datamined Anduin's model in 10.2.7 also

[dense plover]

Not if it’s encrypted

Which is likely for a lot of 10.2.7 stuff

We will see Tuesday

[deep pawn]

I swear Blizzard in a post or interview said they aren't doing a prepatch questline like they did for Legion.

The prepatch event seems to be a tad separate

I'm also not expecting a ton of quests in this patch unless they suddenly do a ton. I'll be shocked if it takes more than 15-20 minutes.

(I'm still salty about 10.1.7 and how rushed that entire plot was)

Yes I know it had two cutscenes but in terms of plot it was over in a second

[dense plover]

The pre patch questlines usually get removed

That might be what they’re not doing

They’re absolutely building up to the expac

That’s the point of 10.2.7

[deep pawn]

Just like 10.1.7 was supposed to be the lead up to 10.2?

[dense plover]

It literally is tho

The cutscene is from 10.2.7

It literally talks about the song

10.2.7 is focused on this buildup

The intro cutscene with anduin has to happen around or during this patch

[deep pawn]

I'm just saying don't expect much from a minor patch

I'll have to rewatch Bellulars prepatch event video to see who is the talking head about the memories

[dense plover]

I think they’re NPCs relevant to each area

[warm topaz]

https://x.com/Warcraft/status/1786470931856069113?t=QdCgDJrtwL1vla5C_m5Wgw&s=33

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft) on X

Lit by a massive crystal, Hallowfall is the underground home to the Arathi.

Twitter · May 3, 2024, 7:00 PM

is this music from Hallowfall? sounds so unique

[silent urchin]

no music in client yet so dunno

[warm topaz]

yeah usually they add that near launch

[uncut vault]

The question is why isn’t that their first instinct is more the thing

[deep pawn]

It could be if Magni gets conked out for 4 months here

[uncut vault]

They don’t go to him until prepatch, so he isn’t likely to be in 10.2.7

[deep pawn]

Oh, MrPeach seemed more certain that could be next week

[uncut vault]

We know all the quest names for next week

It’s all about void elves and dalaran

[dense plover]

We don’t know this

Not for sure

The Magni quest could be sooner

Or we could go and he isn’t there

Or sends us away

[deep pawn]

I feel like we've only seen Xal datamined for next week, not Anduin. And Alleria clearly has her old outfit on

Notably doesn't Alleria's new clothes in TWW look a lot more like Vereesa's colors?

[uncut vault]

The quest text makes it pretty clear this is their first visit for this issue, and their first time seeing magni like this

[dense plover]

Ok I’m wrong about that

But we don’t know when it happens

It could be encrypted

Arguably should be if it’s in 10.2.7

[dense plover]

Data mining means nothing - encryption exists

Tons of stuff in 10.2.7 is encrypted

Apparently Orweyna has a bat form

So Harronir druids

[uncut vault]

The quest titles of the patch are unencrypted like I said

Plus the magni story leads directly into dalaran as the prepatch hub

[tropic trail]

[deep pawn]

We already had a good idea the Harronir were life related. She saves you by casting vine whip

Remains to see if they are Trolls solely influenced by Elune or something else

[austere gazelle]

The roots are the root of Elun'ahir (most probably ) . Harronir, there is a link ? Since it situated on the south and if we go by the idea that Un'goro crater is the crater left by Aman'thul removal of Elun'ahir and its roots endured below the surface & reached to the isle of Dorne somehow, then it could make sense

It is said that much later, as the world entered a new age, mysterious guardians arrived who dedicated their lives to protecting the roots.

[dense plover]

Whatever the roots are - we are almost definitely getting a zone connected to them as a patch

[pulsar minnow]

I could definitely see 11.1 being Elun’ahir being attacked by goblins and xal atath

Goblin shredders cutting the roots and whatnot

Though, I hope it doesn’t tread too much of the same water as amirdrassil

I can already see the forums: “Another elf tree? Yippee!! I hate it blizz sucks gg!”

[little hound]

Flying squid, thats spooky

[pulsar minnow]

The squid is awesome I hope they let him keep floating

[little hound]

Same 😄

[pulsar minnow]

Idk how to explain it but this expansion feels like a dungeons and dragons campaign. So much stuff going on, whacky concepts still grounded in Warcraft without losing its identity

And I can’t put my finger on why, but Hallowfall and the floating squids just scream that idea to me

[tropic trail]

lol what’s this? 😂

A mount?

[deep pawn]

The ocean in Hallowfall goes all the way down to the Nerubian kingdom

[pulsar minnow]

I pray that when Anduin or alleria inevitably bring up to the people of Hallowfall that the sword of Sargeras is linked to the Darkest Day, that they all go “What sword?”

[lone mantle]

[dense plover]

realms are still offline too 😐

[silent urchin]

yeah, no idea whats going on with them

There was a post about fixing questzertauren "shortly", but nothing since that

[tropic trail]

Go sleep and you wake up and they will be up 😂

[dense plover]

realm list cant be retrieved

they might be bringing them back up

[silent urchin]

rip alpha cancelled

I can see offline realms

[dense plover]

oh

😐

i was hoping

darn

its super broken

i hope they fix it

i didnt even get to finish testing

[silent urchin]

Yeah. I finished the MSQ but didn't get side stuff or dungeons done

[dense plover]

i didnt even finish the MSQ

[silent urchin]

realms up

level 76 char still locked :(

delves seem to work tho

[dense plover]

oh good

[silent urchin]

Questzertauren also works

[dense plover]

good thats why they brought it offline

[dense plover]

fuck me too

nope, not playing alpha today then

im gonna explode

how do they keep doing this shit?

like - are there not basic checks in place to not fuck this up every time?

[deep pawn]

they send the most stable build they have

you've been in enough, this doesn't seem unusual

[dense plover]

it definitely is

its also a hotfixable flag

so i hope they hotfix it

[upper pasture]

maybe the focus of the build is pre level 76? so they want people testing the leveling stuff over and over again looking for bugs.

[balmy rock]

Is there any mage tier set pieces yet?

[silent urchin]

you can't finish the zone without going to 76, it's meant to be 75-78

[balmy rock]

I feel like mages gonna have goofy tier set like the Amirdrassil one 💀

[upper pasture]

you might be high amirdrassil mage tier is op

[balmy rock]

Lol not a big fan of the design

The hat is meh

Shoulders are decent

Priests are eating good rn

[dense plover]

the focus is 75-78

they reverted something and accidentally reverted the level flag

makes testing a bunch of stuff impossible/difficult

[dense plover]

they added dragonriding skill track to questzertaur so you dont have to go to the isles

[dense plover]

why do reps in the character panel have a fire icon?

feels like tier 2 delves are tougher

actually dying as a tank if i fuck up

looks like they buffed tier 2 rewards to be better/actually useful

reefwalkers are back!

i missed these guys

[deep pawn]

maybe the campfire means warbound?

[dense plover]

oh

that makes sense

[deep pawn]

buth hallowfall is supposed to be too

[uncut vault]

I assume this is the renown from another character

and the icon symbolizes that the one shown is the highest in your warband

rather than that individual character

[blazing granite]

"All Good Things..."
Join Faerin Lothar and Monte Gazlowe to prevent the Queen's forces from invading Hallowfall.

[uncut vault]

Where's that from?

[blazing granite]

Found it on Wowhead

[silent urchin]

Woo they fixed the locked characters at some point

[silent urchin]

delves here are a good bit more interesting

Not incredibly complicated or anything but neat and varied environments

[deep pawn]

Have we ever known Gazlowe's first name before?

[ionic terrace]

yeah

[deep pawn]

I must have never noticed it

[tulip sun]

First introduced in a book I think

[dense plover]

characters arent locked!

[warm topaz]

https://twitter.com/Warcraft/status/1786802982442483758

World of Warcraft (@Warcraft) on X

As you traverse deep into Hallowfall, Faerin Lothar will help light the way.

Twitter · May 4, 2024, 5:00 PM

[harsh mason]

I don't really understand where the shield is attached to it.

[dense plover]

ahj'kahet has sub maps; nerub'ar, and a lower city map

[harsh mason]

But she's got great armor.

[dense plover]

her shoulder

its attched to her shoulder

[dense plover]

this means that each of these will have their own art map btw

interesting side quest series - re-establishing trade between hallowfall, the earthen and also the trading post npcs getting involved

[tulip sun]

That's really cool. Don't often see interaction between the people of the various zones like that

[dense plover]

doesnt seem to have a followup

npcs just stick around

might not be finished yet

[tulip sun]

I think ivs seen someone do it

[dense plover]

has anyone found the faction vendor for hallowfall?

[silent urchin]

it's the quartermaster in meraldar but doesn't have a vendor option yet

[dense plover]

ah

[winged dagger]

It did

But the reset removed the option

[dense plover]

these zones feel VERY empty

like - barely any npcs, not a lot of enemies, nearly no critters

i hope they do a pass

chunks of the zone feel dead - ringing deeps had the same problem

[winged dagger]

That's the way it usually is in the first alpha pass, no?

[dense plover]

idk

its different each time

legion alpha was packed with npcs but the zones were half finished

bfa alpha was similar but the npcs were only in certain parts and the zones were empty like this but werent as big so it didnt feel as odd

[winged dagger]

I check on battle pet stuff, and half the pets have broken stats, can't be captured, spawn at only blue, don't have abilities, have negative stats, or just crash the game for you when you encounter them.

So like. Alot of work is still being done. 😂

I'm sure the zones will get populated more. They may also be purposely leaving space blank so they can release content like dreamsurges in patches to fill spaces in game time.

[deep pawn]

So has any hints to a new zone been seen yet? Like DF alpha had the underground zone hints

[pulsar minnow]

We have “goblinraid” weapons. Gazlowe has a “prominent” role in the expansion too. So undermine is probably likely

[deep pawn]

Yeah, I'm so not ready for the "you wasted Undermine as a patch zone!"

[severe summit]

hi all

[pulsar minnow]

That’s a waste?

We’re in the underground expansion. Undermine fits perfectly

What else would undermine be

[deep pawn]

People think Undermine and the south seas deserved an entire expansion on its own.

Same as Nazjatar being seen as a waste

[dense plover]

i think anymore for nazjatar wouldnt have worked

it didnt feel that way at the time

[pulsar minnow]

Undermine is nowhere near the same level as Nazjatar in lore prominence tbh

[dense plover]

but in hindsight, 100% it was just one zone

an entire expac with the same visuals wouldve sucked

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has shown it can vary visuals a lot even with the same cultures

The dragon isles are predominantly draconic architecture

[pulsar minnow]

I agree Nazjatar deserved to be its own expansion

The coral forest was gorgeous. And I would’ve loved to see an entire zin Azshari city zone

And don’t get me started on the water wall, that was amazing

My personal feeling is 11.1 is the harronir zone and the raid is undemrine

[zealous sedge]

I’m curious how undermine will fit into the lore. Obviously the underground aspect makes sense. But does Xal have another army (not just nerubians) and wants to take over undermine for its technology and strategic place near the maelstrom?

[pulsar minnow]

I mean the undermine is a vast network of tunnels going deep into the earth

Good chance she’s only working with them to get closer to the world soul

[deep pawn]

They may also be after the oil if it's Azerite

It's mentioned too often in the quests to not be important

[tulip sun]

A raid is pretty important

[dense plover]

reminder that zandalar was called trollraid

so it could be a zone OR a raid or both or neither

[tulip sun]

There is a suspicious amount of goblins

The cinderbrew taken over by venture co

The Darkfuse in Ringing Deeps, and the friendly goblin vacationers in yhe same zone

Gazlowe has a lot of entries in the files and a new outfit

[subtle oar]

That's because it was. Zandalar the zone was labeled trollraid because they already had it planned out for BoD to take place in the open world.

[dense plover]

oh for sure

im just saying we dont know a lot

i also dont think its gonna be 11.1

im thinking 11.1 will be the harronir

[tulip sun]

Yeah I'd reckon that too

[dense plover]

unless the goblin stuff and the harronir stuff are overlapped

[pulsar minnow]

Harronir and Undermine are probably overlapping

[dense plover]

but the potential zone entrance for the undermine is the end of ringing deeps

[tulip sun]

That'd be a big thematic clash, bu5 that could.be on purpose lol

[dense plover]

and harronir root blocking isnt

the edge of ringing deeps has a ton of goblins digging at a wall inside their goblin mechs

and the massive ball of roots that seems to be blocking a tunnel is somewhere else

[tulip sun]

I'm very eager for next week and seeing the Harronir

[dense plover]

im excited to see how much of the zone is suramar 2.0

[silent urchin]

Dungeons are pretty neat. Priory seems to have a lot of trash and I don't really understand all the final boss stuff in dawnbreaker

also not sure when dawnbreaker fits into story

[dense plover]

im waiting for follower dungeons to test dungeons

[dense plover]

dawnbreaker is a max level dungeon

we dont have the story tie in yet

im fairly certain each zone has some kind of endgame story of some kind

[silent urchin]

Yeah, that seems to make the most sense

there's definitely level 80 areas set up already

[deep pawn]

Harronir seem friendly

[dense plover]

the enemies outside of the dungeon are level 80

i think

or the dawnbreaker is when we travel to the area where we ride the thing

i dont remember

its messy right now

[silent urchin]

The harronir leader or at least important person saves us at the end of hallowfall, although we don't see much of it yet

[dense plover]

yeah i remembered right

[deep pawn]

I think 11.1 is Undermine and 11.2 is a Xal conquered Avaloren.

[dense plover]

the max level dungeons dont QUITE fit into the story because we dont have that story

[dense plover]

avaloren is an entire continent

no chance

11.1 and 11.2 are both gonna be cave zones

[deep pawn]

The emerald dream is an entire plane of existence

[dense plover]

11.1 will be the harronir zone

11.2 will be the undermine

[dense plover]

except we are specifically in that chunk of the dream

not the entire dream

theyre not going to waste avaloren this early

[deep pawn]

Block off the area outside of the capital

[tulip sun]

A bit odd we don't really see Thalyssra equivalents. We know we help rebels

[dense plover]

thats not how you intro a continent

[dense plover]

orwenya

also nerubians we havent met yet

[deep pawn]

Orwenya isn't a Nerubian, but she is definitely against them.

Life trolls likely won't like old gods

[dense plover]

theres a sect of nerubians fighting back

[dense plover]

thats not what they are

theyre bat people

theyre troll-like

[tulip sun]

I wasn't counting Orweyna since she wasn't Nerubian

[dense plover]

but theyre definitely bats more than anything

[dense plover]

its not all gonna be nerubians

its not literally suramar

[tulip sun]

Like I dint think I've seen our "friendly" Nerubians. Not any named ones that would appear to be the rebel leade4

[deep pawn]

If you say they're bats, that's a big assumption beyond that Orwenya is just a druid

[pulsar minnow]

the big question is where this expansion is headed in terms of story. To me this feels like a race to the center of the earth. I feel like the final zone is going to be a giant titanic facility surrounding the world soul. ending it in undermine or a bunch of roots feels weird

[dense plover]

hard to tell but there are some associated with the faction

[dense plover]

uh

no

they have bat ears

a bat form

quills like some of the bats do

theyre bats

[dense plover]

i think thats 11.3

[deep pawn]

Just like how night elf and troll druid forms all have pointy ears?

[dense plover]

no

[pulsar minnow]

assuming we get an 11.3

[dense plover]

like LITERALLY a bat

like LITERALLY

[deep pawn]

You're kidding if you think 11.3 exists

[dense plover]

lemme show you

[pulsar minnow]

they are basically bat people

[dense plover]

yeah its literally a bat form

theyre bat people

are they troll-adjacent? probably

but calling them life-trolls is way off base

theyre bat-trolls

definitely bat forward

[deep pawn]

You know who else can turn into a bat? Every troll druid

[dense plover]

dude

youre delusional

im not gonna argue when you have no evidence

you just make stuff up

"life-trolls" based on? nothing

[pulsar minnow]

One way the Undermine and Harronir could fit together is if its revealed the Harronir are descendants of the Zandalari who were overthrown by the Goblins and forced deeper underground until they found Elun'ahir

that was kinda word vomit but I hope yall get the point

[deep pawn]

I'm delusional for presuming this race is humanoid first with druidic traits vs being our first example of bats with a visage

[pulsar minnow]

i mean they're most definitely related to elves and trolls in some capacity

they've just evolved their own way

[deep pawn]

And I'm calling them life trolls because they are influenced heavily by the Elune tree and Orwenya opens up with freaking Vine Whip.

[tulip sun]

I am glad to see that Orweyna seems to be an important figure overall

[deep pawn]

They could be the origin of all trolls and thus elves at this point since the dark trolls came from somewhere

[tulip sun]

Though I'm more inclined to think druidic society/form over bat people

[pulsar minnow]

they're not bat people, but the art direction is to make them look like bats

with the bat ears specifically

just a way to use elf iconography and fit it with the cave aesthetic

[deep pawn]

Imagine the uproar if Elune lead some Harronir to the surface to get them to the well of eternity on purpose

[tulip sun]

I imagine that did not happen

I'm assuming it went TROLL. Then the various troll types like Dark Trolls

[dense plover]

we dont know its the elune tree

this is the shit im talking about

[pulsar minnow]

its gotta be Elun'ahir

[dense plover]

you connect one thing with something else without any evidence

its likely but we dont know

[pulsar minnow]

like what else could it be lets be real

[tulip sun]

Then some went to the wall, became Kaldorei. Some remained where they were and stayed dark trolls. Others started to transform and went underground; maybe got blessed by a loa. This is all my theory ofc

[dense plover]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[deep pawn]

You guys have lots of pictures of roots in the Harronir area.

[dense plover]

something new?

[pulsar minnow]

yes we dont know everything but thats like the point of speculating

[dense plover]

i wasnt saying bat person with visage form btw - im saying theyre troll-like bat people

theyre definitely druids

i hope theyre playable

[deep pawn]

They're more troll than bat I feel.

[dense plover]

i disagree - its a solid 50/50

[deep pawn]

The Titan machine Azeroth is worried about surely isn't the machine that makes Earthen.

[dense plover]

they have fur customizations too

[dense plover]

that i can agree with

its something bigger

[deep pawn]

All trolls have fur canonically

[dense plover]

wut

[deep pawn]

Yeah, forest trolls are green cause there's moss on their fur

[dense plover]

what?!

where is this from?

ive never heard that

thats CRAZY

[deep pawn]

Just read the wiki stuff on trolls. At least for a long time all trolls were described as being covered in fur

[tulip sun]

The quils really remind me of Agagamonhowever you spell that boar loa.

[tulip sun]

It is true. Whether it's stoll considered factual is another. Sitstuion

[deep pawn]

Perhaps it's been retconned at this point but who knows

[tepid fiber]

It's a fine layer of moss-like fur, like really thick peach fuzz

[pulsar minnow]

Trolls adapt very heavily to their environment

thats why the Zandalari have scales for instance

[tulip sun]

I could see very fine "fur"

[pulsar minnow]

So kyle's right actually, I completely forgot about that tidbit of lore

could explain why they look like bats due to their proximity to them as their pets

[tepid fiber]

Technically other trolls developed off of the zandalari template

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but its not like evolution stopped for any of them

[tepid fiber]

Ofc

[tulip sun]

Trolls overall could just use more explanation lmao

[tepid fiber]

Just that zandalari are about the closest you're getting to the baseline troll phenotype

[pulsar minnow]

And ofc we did have that mention from Patrick Dawson in early DF how we'd be meeting "primal trolls" and then we just didn't

[tepid fiber]

Tbf they kind of have a lot

[pulsar minnow]

I PRAY the Harronir end up being shamans

[deep pawn]

Presuming the Zandalari aren't order mutated a little by the Titan machines they lived in

[tepid fiber]

I still see a future drogbar connection, what with the drogbar using the term "ronir" for people already and some common physical characteristics. Harronir could be primal trolls or that missing link between trolls and drogbar both

[pulsar minnow]

yeah totally

I think it's pretty interesting how many cosmic forces are at play in this expansion

We got Order with the Earthen, Light and Void with Beledar and Xal'atath, Life with Elun'ahir, Fel with Sargeras' Sword

just missing death

Return to Korthia confirmed

[tepid fiber]

I mean ideally we see a little of each. I like seeing the world of Warcraft

[pulsar minnow]

it makes it feel a lot like legion

[tepid fiber]

They're all just elements to the same setting

[pulsar minnow]

legion had all of them involved in some capacity

and it was amazing

[tepid fiber]

To a degree so did SL

[pulsar minnow]

yeah but we dont talk about SL

💀

[tepid fiber]

I talk about SL because it happened and I'm not an ostrich

[pulsar minnow]

For what its worth, I actually think the introduction of the First Ones in Shadowlands was a really cool idea

In a way its like a stat squish for the power levels of the characters in the story. We used to think Titans were the gods of wow, but then we killed one so

[tepid fiber]

What SL hammered into me, which I feel like a lot of other people missed, is that none of the major forces really have superiority or a one-up on any other and the material universe exists either because of them or with them as a part of it as anything else, and each of them thinks itself is the best--even us

[deep pawn]

Well all of them literally rely on reality

And Shadowlands proves Azeroth is special

At least special enough that the first ones knew we'd survive the legion

[tepid fiber]

I don't think the Legion really figured into their plans, seeing as in a way Denathrius going off-design led to its creation in a big way

[deep pawn]

As powerful as they are I'm sure they planned for that

Especially since they had a backup arbiter ready to go

[tepid fiber]

I don't think they planned for it because of how powerful they were, similarly to how the Titans were largely ignorant of the Void before Sargeras meeting the Dreadlords

Having backup templates it's just good architectural/engineering practice

Demons and the Fel were a thing, but they didn't have any organization until Sargeras forced it onto them and created the Burning Legion

[deep pawn]

I still think we visit at least part of Avaloren this expansion because they're either friend against the void in Midnight or foe we deal with before

[uncut vault]

I'm sure midnight will have the solution to this absence

[tepid fiber]

But yeah, while I'm sure the First Ones had plenty of contingencies and their own equivalent of a T2P formula for mortals, I doubt that they specifically planned for the Burning Legion or Zovaal or clever Void shenanigans, and generally individuals acting as individuals

[zealous sedge]

I fucking hope not. Never want to see sylvie again

[pulsar minnow]

Sylvanas is the most mismanaged character in the game

[tropic trail]

[pulsar minnow]

shes awesome but man did these last few expansions do a number to her

[tepid fiber]

She's already been back, or at least Sylvanas loyalist Forsaken see her again after doing their heritage armor questline

[pulsar minnow]

whoever wrote that dialogue at the end of the questline deserves a raise

that line should be seen by everyone in the game, it did so much to recover the damage done

[tepid fiber]

To be fair, all of their creative and development staff need liveable wage raises

[tropic trail]

Sylvanas will be again back in WW?

[deep pawn]

Probably not till midnight

[pulsar minnow]

Probably not but midnight by she’s got a good chance

[tepid fiber]

Nobody is confirming anything we're just spinning off

[tropic trail]

Lmao ok good 😌

[deep pawn]

She'll need to save void Alleria

With the power of sisterly love

[tepid fiber]

Because as we all know Valeera is useless

[deep pawn]

Wrong elf

Valeera is a blood elf assassin

Vereesa is the high elf ranger

[uncut vault]

Don't worry, Blizzard forgot about Vereesa too lol

[tepid fiber]

That's how little I think of the third sister I don't even remember her name

[uncut vault]

her home is blown up, and it's her sister that's taking the revenge role for it lmao

[deep pawn]

I wonder if rhonins kids are dead

[tepid fiber]

Doesn't Vareesa have twins

[deep pawn]

Yes

[tepid fiber]

What are they doing

[pulsar minnow]

I think it’s a good thing vereesa isn’t in the story

[tepid fiber]

Where the heck is Arator

[pulsar minnow]

Those nightmare children

[deep pawn]

Arator will show up just in time to die

[pulsar minnow]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/diealdor/images/2/2a/Giramar_und_Galadin.jpg

[uncut vault]

Her twins would be a little bit older than Dagran is now, is the funny thing

[pulsar minnow]

Gonna send xal atath running with those twins

[deep pawn]

Blizzard has more characters than they can remember

[tepid fiber]

When is the Teen Titans group made up of all of the kids of major characters? I'm waiting for that

Baine should count as their leader

[uncut vault]

I think Baine's aged out of the category now at this point lol

[tepid fiber]

Because he's Cairne's son

[tepid fiber]

Nah he's their Nightwing

[deep pawn]

Like surely they won't forget Oculeth exists when you have a bunch of Arathi who want a portal home.

[uncut vault]

Don't even need Oculeth, Jaina's shown explicitly that she can perform the memory magic the last mage says is needed to portal home

and she's in the xpac lol

[deep pawn]

True

[pulsar minnow]

I offer you.. an alternative.

[deep pawn]

And she is the one that opened the Alliance portal in Nazjatar

[tepid fiber]

I will reach through the internet and slap you so hard

You get Med'an out of my face right now

[deep pawn]

I guess Jaina could do it herself but Oculeth is literally the teleportation master

Excited to see what lore excuse they make up as to why they can't do it

Could be as simple as the storms

[pulsar minnow]

I wonder what’s gonna happen with the Arathi. Are they gonna stay with us through the world soul saga? They said they came here for the final confrontation between light and void. Which is midnight ofc.

[deep pawn]

But the light was able to grab the Arath

[tepid fiber]

How about that other voice that calls out to the Tidesages?

[deep pawn]

I just don't see the Hallowfall as enough. The emperor intended them to set up camp and open portals

We have no idea who the Tidemother is yet

[tepid fiber]

Yeah that's what I'm saying

Tidemother coming up from behind in the 3rd round with a steel chair

[deep pawn]

Could just be the elemental essence of the seas

The void was described as deeper and darker than the Tidemother

[uncut vault]

I'd say Faerin definitely will

but unless they blow a whole empire on a patch zone, Hallowfall feels a lot like them seeding content for after the Worldsoul Saga

once we go through all the big grand Titan/Void plots, the next logical "what now" would be the other side of Azeroth

[pulsar minnow]

I definitely see us finishing the world soul saga, and ending with everyone saying goodbye to the Arathi as they set sail home, and us coming with them to see what lies beyond the storming sea

[tulip sun]

I think essentially all the new allies we make will be seen throughout the saga

Each battle is just escalating more and more

[deep pawn]

I just can't see the Arathi abandoning their mission of opening those portals for the final battle

[tulip sun]

They don't have any images to open portals

[deep pawn]

The mages all being dead is a good excuse for now, but they're about to meet tons of them.

[tulip sun]

Doesn't mean our images can magically make giant portals to an unknown land

Mages

[deep pawn]

Hell there's gonna be mages right above them constantly running portals to Orgrimmar and Stormwind

[pulsar minnow]

Final raid of the Last Titan has to be a siege of Ulduar or something. Armies of Dragons, Anduin leading everyone while riding atop Wrathion, aspects, army of the light, horde and alliance, remnants of the legion, the united elven nations, hell maybe a pantheon god or two

Would be so sick

[tulip sun]

Again, if a mage could just open a portal anywhere anytime, even places they never knew existed

This world wouldn't have any issues

[deep pawn]

The mage that dies in Hallowfall says it can be taught and if anyone can figure out how to go to a place they now know exists it's Oculeth or Jaina

And mages are taught how to open portals to places they've never been all time.

Yes by other mages, but an Archmage can likely do it off memories and a clearer location of distance

They wouldn't have reminded people that portals can be taught if it wasn't relevant

[tulip sun]

Yeah hard disagree

[uncut vault]

Like I said, Jaina explicitly has the ability that Wenren mentions, of memory-based arcane magic

it's not something invented solely for Hallowfall, it's been in the story for a long while

[deep pawn]

Avaloren also solves that pesky problem that like half the world has died in the last 30 years

At the end of BfA literally everyone but actual farmers had been conscripted cause the death toll was so intense.

There's also that line that Anduin wants to see this human kingdom given how many have fallen

Lordaeron and Alterac are still empty. Gilneas and Stromgarde are barely reclaimed.

Empty of humans

[dense plover]

ok so some of the dawnbreaker story is implied here

i think we are LITERALLY missing pieces of the story

this is the first, the one above is the 2nd

so - something significant is missing - might be that this was in the middle of the zone story or at the end and tied to some of the unimplemented cutscenes? idk

[zealous sedge]

Is it actually a problem? Is it referenced anywhere? Genuinely curious as I do not know.

[deep pawn]

It hasn't been since BfA for humans, but Night Elves are still suffering, Blood elves are still like 5% of their original population

In TWW Anduin is mourning all the fallen Human kingdoms

Rewatch the cutscene where Anduin lets Saurfang out of prison.

[zealous sedge]

Okay I will go on look thank you

[deep pawn]

Azeroth has been an incredibly deadly world for last few decades.

[zealous sedge]

True. I haven’t heard it be a major plot point for storytellers to work around or even bring up.

But if they truly want to see these populations repopulate Blizz would have to do a fast forward of like 30 years of peace for an expac to make it make sense

[warm topaz]

you can't kill the last boss, it stops at 20%

so maybe is bc spoilers

or maybe is just buggy

[dense plover]

thats interesting

no - if it ends and you get loot, its not a bug

think ive completed all of the quests in the zone right now - not that many

really makes me think there is stuff missing

also dawnbreaker is an endgame dungeon

so it cant be part of leveling

maybe its post-anj-kahet

or part of the story there?

yeah the whirring field area is filled with nerubians and is level 80

and we dont do much here

so i think theres some stuff with coming back to hallowfall at 80 as part of the story

[warm topaz]

i didn't explain it properly, you don't see like in Brackenhide that the guy just tp out. In this dungeon you get tp to the boat when the boss reach 20% or so

[dense plover]

yeah that sounds like a missing cutscene

[deep pawn]

Half the story lately is needing new allies to actually fight things

Allied races in BfA, Dracthyr in DF

Earthen, Arathi, and probably Harronir in tww

A lot of the big fights in SL were done by the covenants even.

[winged dagger]

You also have to think of factions, were talking a place much bigger than stormwind possibly, that knows nothing of alliance/horde silliness. If any of the horde races exist there they may well be on the side of the humans as well. So either no factions, or new ones.

[dense plover]

arathi are likely just going to be an unlocked customization, like night warrior stuff

its literally only the ears for humans and kul tirans

its also supposed to work on blood elves, but its not quite as finished yet

[deep pawn]

I didn't mean as it's own allied race, they'll just be customization, and I'd kill for some Roman style hair. But as a lore ally against the void

[subtle oar]

It has been, otherwise it would have been mentioned in Shadows Rising, when Zappyboi got burned alive.

[deep pawn]

That's a big assumption the book writer even knew that fact haha

[winged dagger]

This bubble was summoned by a new toy I found in a delve.
You can swim in it. And you can see just how big the bubble is.

[deep pawn]

it's a bubble from one of the digs

cool.

[winged dagger]

example use

[dense plover]

the big question is can other people see the bubble

[uncut vault]

Thats almost certainly gonna get scaled down haha

[dense plover]

and how long until they give it a 12hr cooldown because otherwise a town will just be bubbles

[uncut vault]

that's so ripe for abuse

not just for griefing people but getting out of bounds

[winged dagger]

well others were swimming it it.

If anyone needs and is in the alpha i can summon it and let you test/report it

[zealous sedge]

Does anyone know if they are going to have minor catchup mechanics for professions? Like if you miss one week of profession quests, etc for skill points you’ll be able to gain them a week later?

I find it for a player like me it will be hard to keep up with progression on my alchemy (for example) because my time is constrained. So a small catchup mechanic would be nice.

[deep pawn]

they haven't said anything

[tropic trail]

Damn it’s so big 😂

I would keep it just don’t summon in the city.

[dense plover]

well - there are going to be npc work orders

so thats the real help

youll be able to complete those work order quests

and get stuff that way

[shy thicket]

I mean you could send yourself personal orders from another character

[livid walrus]

I placed amount of black ink potion in AH. if you want to check stuff on alpha

[severe oxide]

at the moment you can send yourself work orders from alts so not that big a change. Just saves you a relog, really

[deep pawn]

The npc ones might make you gold

[silent urchin]

Delve scaling seems weird. Although I'm not sure how much of that is down to how the fixed testing ilvl interacts with stuff

you get set to 511, but the mobs scale a lot with level

Tried one at 77 and it was pretty brutal compared to 75

[subtle oar]

That would 100% be fun detected xD

[austere gazelle]

Well in BFA it was Azshara.
There was the tidemother wrath / radiance / and whatever which also were named bosses we all known ( wrath of azshara, radiance of azshara , etc )

[deep pawn]

Seems a bit of a leap that I wouldn't exactly take

Especially since Tidesages still hear the Tidemother and Azshara isn't even on this plane of existence